WEBVTT - Listener Mail: Here Comes Halloween 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.600 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.800 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. Listener mail. 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:14.240 My name is Robert. 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.919 Lamb, and I am Joe McCormick and Rob and I 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.840 are here with our loyal mail bot Carney to read 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.640 back some messages you have sent in to the Stuff 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:26.880 to Blow your Mind email address over the past few weeks, which, 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.080 by the way, if you want to get in touch yourself, 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:33.599 that is contact at Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.400 We love messages of all kinds, especially feedback to recent episodes. 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:39.600 If you've got something interesting you'd like to add to 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.960 a topic that we've talked about, if you have corrections, 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.880 if you just want to let us know anything. You know, 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.040 how you found out about the show, what you do 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.559 when you listen, that sort of thing. Right on in 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:55.639 contact at Stuff to Blow your Mind dot Com. All right, Rob, 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.400 let's see do you mind if I kick things off 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:02.240 with this message from Cindy offering some some pronunciation guidance 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:06.080 in response to our episode on the Urukiara, the Lovable 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:15.440 Wobbly Mascots of Japan. Sure let's have it, okay, Cindy says, Hi, 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.440 Robert and Joe longtime listener, and I've emailed in the 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:22.319 past as well. I still love your podcast, including Weird House. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:24.959 I wasn't sure if I should write in because I 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.840 didn't want to come across as a pronunciation pedant, but 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:30.480 I think it would be of interest to you as well. 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.319 I recently listened back to the two part episode about 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.959 Urukiara and found it fun and informative. However, I did 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.800 want to let you know that the word kawwaie is 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:45.360 not pronounced kowai as most non Japanese speaking English speakers 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.639 tend to say it. You know, It's funny because years 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.120 and years ago at this point, we actually did an 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.840 episode addressing sort of the overlap and convergence of these 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:57.960 two terms. I think it was about the sort of 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:02.880 cute scary pop culture phenomenon, especially in Japan. Yeah. 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.000 Yeah, and I know that sometimes when you do searches 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.200 in English based on these concepts, you'll end up getting 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:10.960 some overlap as well, where you'll realize, oh wait, I 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.400 thought I was looking up cute and this is clearly 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.239 stuff that's in the horror creepy context. 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.079 So yeah, but yeah, so this is what Cindy gets 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.720 into in the email, Cindy says, first of all, the 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:25.120 word for cute isk ye, and the word for scary 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.400 is co ye. For some reason, when English speakers say 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:31.560 cow ye, it comes out sounding much closer to co ye, 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.200 with a rounded a that sounds more like oh. Cute 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.400 and scary describe very different qualities, so I think it's 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.000 worth taking the time to pronounce them clearly. I hear 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:43.240 a lot of people saying it like a mashup of 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.800 both words. The word k ye is pronounced with an 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.280 a sound, and the e is actually a long e 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.600 sound co y e. Scary is pronounced k wha and 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.400 then e. As an email, if you listen to a 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.520 Japanese speaker saying it online, you will hear the difference. 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:03.919 Second of all, this word has worked its way into 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.600 the mainstream in America, so I thought it was important 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.600 that you knew the difference, especially if you need to 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.120 use it for future podcasts. Keep up the great work. 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:13.800 Thank you for the hours of fun and informative content. 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.400 I'm impressed with your vast knowledge and the creative and 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:20.240 thoughtful ways which you make connections. Ps. I currently have 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:22.720 a bag of rice in my cupboard with a big 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:27.040 image of kumaman in it, kumaman air. I always liked 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:31.200 kumaman because my last name is Kumano, which is bear 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:37.000 plus field. Cindy, Well, thank you for the guideance, Cindy. Yeah. I, 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.000 as we said, this has come up on the show before, 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.000 sort of the these two words in the context of 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.040 each other. And I don't know if it's especially because 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.840 of my Southern American accent, or if this is just 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.440 going to be a common way of speaking. But when 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.800 you have the O and the A sound, between the 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.520 K and the W sound, there is just a natural 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:59.680 tendency for them to sound the same. I think that 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.760 might be especially true for sort of a Tennessee American 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.440 accent like mine. It's really hard for me to say 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:08.520 it any other way. I have to like slow down 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.240 and break the word apart into different syllables to say 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:13.880 it like a Japanese speaker would. 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:14.520 Yeah. 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:19.280 Likewise, Southern American guy gene here. So we try and 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.520 get it right. But you know, thanks, thanks for the correction. 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.480 Yeah. I can't promise we always will, but you know, 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:26.560 we're doing our. 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.480 Best, all right. This next one comes to us from 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.160 let's see, this is from Jim in New Jersey, and 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.760 this one has to do with odds and evans. I 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.359 think this is a response to the whole rule of 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:45.760 thirds thing and composition that we were talking about. Yeah, so, 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.720 Jim says Robert Joe and JJ. Steven Spielberg illustrates how 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.560 he learned the rules of thirds and The Fablements, which 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:56.600 is a semi autobiographical film of his family portrayed via 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:00.640 the a fictional family the Fables. The main careara, Young 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:05.000 Spielberg meets legendary film director John Ford, who is portrayed 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.880 as a salty curmudgeon. Ford asks young Spielberg if he 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.599 knows art. Ford points to a few paintings hanging in 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.279 his office. He asks the young lad to comment on them. 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:18.479 When young Spielberg balks and responding, Ford barks at him 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.880 to point out the horizon in the first painting it's low. 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.920 In the second painting it's high. Now. I want to 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.719 add I've not seen the movie in question here, but 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.159 I had to look it up on IMDb. And it's 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.680 worth noting that David Lynch plays John Ford in this. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.880 Yeah, that's an inspired bit of casting, especially how notoriously 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:43.279 eccentric John Ford was salty and curmudgeonly by reputation, yes, 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.680 but also just like a super weird guy. And I 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:48.880 should say another thing about the scene is so he 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.880 has the young Spielberg in his office and john Ford 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.000 is pointing it like paintings of cowboys, and he says, 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.040 describe the painting to me, and the young Spielberg at 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.800 first tries to say what's happening in it. He's like, well, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.279 there are three cowboys on horses around it. And he's 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:08.880 like no, no, no, no, no, where's the horizon? That's 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:13.720 what he's asking him when he does it over and over. Oh. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.520 But then after this, the John Ford character played by 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.080 David Lynch, he caps it by making the lesson explicit. 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.080 Yes, and Jim here includes some quotes from the film, 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.720 but basically it comes down to Ford telling the young 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:30.240 Spielberg that when the horizon's at the bottom, it's interesting. 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.400 When it's at the top, it's interesting, but when it's 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:33.800 in the middle, it is boring. 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:39.760 It is boring. As explative. Yah, I really liked this 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.719 scene because you can tell the way this would have 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:44.919 been approached in a lot of other movies. And again, 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:46.760 I think this is based on a real episode that 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.799 happened to young Steven Spielberg. So also, like what apparently 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:54.320 or allegedly happened in real life, you would expect the 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.200 young director speaking to a kid who aspires to work 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.280 in the film industry to have a kind a more 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:03.240 kind of general wisdom about the spirit of filmmaking or 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.640 something like that, you know what I mean. And instead 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:10.200 he gives them this incredibly specific practical lesson about framing 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:11.480 shots and that's all. 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:15.400 Yeah, yeah, as if like this is the one rule, 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:20.760 get this and the rest will come anyway, Jim says that, Yeah. 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.000 The next scene is young Spielberg on the back lot 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.880 and he demonstrates that he has indeed learned the lesson 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:27.160 of horizon placement. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.720 Okay, well, whatever the empirical research says about the universality 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.240 or non universality of preferences for rule of thirds in art, 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:40.280 john Ford is devoted to it. He's there, let's see 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.360 you ready for me to do this message from Nathan. 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.760 This is also about our series on odds and evens. Yes, 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:53.840 let's do it, Nathan says, Hi, guys, I gotta say, 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.480 even after twelve or so years of listening, y'all are 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.800 still pumping out superior programming. I find fascinating. To call 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.880 it great work is an understatement. Thank you, Nathan. That's 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.600 very kind, Nathan says. When I heard the odds and 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:10.200 evens topic, my mind went to plating immediately. I spent 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.840 about two decades working in restaurants and learned that the 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.120 use of even numbers on a dish was considered an 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:21.040 amateurish faux pas. This was true regardless of the shape 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.760 of the plate. I suppose it's the irregular juxtaposition of 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.640 food against the symmetry of the dish that makes it 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.920 appealing to the eye. Towards the end of that period, 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:35.120 I learned desserts from a chef trained in classical French preparation, 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:41.360 who insisted that each serving consisted of three colors, three textures, 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.920 and three flavors. That's three threes naturally plated and or 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:50.680 garnished in odds. He also demanded height and diagonal shapes 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.199 for whatever that's worth. Oh yeah, you want your desserts 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.720 to be tall, right, no flat deserts. I don't know 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:58.600 how to check the veracity of this claim, but I 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.880 once heard that traditional play in threes or fives came 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.240 from Asian cultures. It is true, in part at least, 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.839 that in both Chinese and Japanese the word for the 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.120 number four is similar enough to the word for death 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:15.120 that the number is considered unlucky and thus avoided. Why 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.480 that would influence European cuisine seems hard to research. And 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.760 it's not really about even numbers in this case, just 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:26.040 the number four. Any thoughts, just human aesthetics anyway, gents, 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.040 keep them coming, Rob, any chance you will reveal the 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.719 origin of the name Argomandanese. I suspect some M S 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.959 T three K inspiration your loyal listener, Nathan. 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.160 Oh, Well, well, there's a lot of a lot of 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:42.559 thoughts in there, I guess, starting with the subject of 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:47.720 food and numerals and different cultures. I think the examples 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:51.760 of threes and fives in Asian cultures like this is 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.360 just in general, a good example of something we did 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:56.880 talk about, and that is that there are so many 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:01.280 factors influencing the way that numbers are p and you'll 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.280 have things like this occur in a culture where yeah, 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.720 particular number will have a lucky you know, a lucky 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.640 or an unlucky connotation, and then it ripples out from there, 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.240 and then that's going to influence the way those numbers 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.080 are used, at least in some cases and other times not. 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:20.200 Yeah. Yeah. So for example, we talked in one of 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.920 those episodes on Odds and Evens about research showing that, 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.920 you know, maybe people view even numbers as more kind 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:29.880 of stable and friendly and good in general, but then 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:36.000 also especially like people perceive multiples of four as extremely even, 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.680 like more even than even. But you know, these studies 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.680 are mostly among like English speaking Westerners, and you wonder 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.600 if the same would be true and say a culture 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.720 where the number four among many people is considered unlucky 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.839 because of a homophone association with the concept of death. 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.800 Yeah, and again it's like, we can we can point 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:59.640 to examples of within Western culture where you end up 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:05.240 with with the situations that seem to contradict each other, like, 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:08.640 for instance, thirteen, what unlucky number? Right, And you see 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.960 all sorts of wacky things that are done to avoid 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.079 listing thirteen, such as like skipping thirteen in a floor 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.000 plan for a building in the elevator or I was 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.640 noticing this the other day. I was with my family 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.040 to an art opening and it was next to like 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.920 a firehouse, I believe, and it was like, I guess 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.480 it was like firehouse thirteen. But they're like, well, we 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.160 got to put thirteen up there, but we're going to 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.160 put it on a four leaf clover, so like a 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.240 four leaf clover design was added, So we'll do things 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:37.320 like that. But then we come back to the idea 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.080 of the baker's dozen being like thirteen donuts or what 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.240 have you. And of course the reasons for that are 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.280 related to an entirely separate matter that has to do 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:50.240 with like I think, like old baking laws, like old 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:55.280 baking European baking laws. But you know, they contradict each 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.920 other on one hand, like oh, you demand your thirteen 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.360 doughnuts or biscuits or whatever it is, And on the 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.560 other hand, there would seem to be an impulse to 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:06.560 never give the customer thirteen donuts. What are you trying 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.559 to do bring death upon their house? So yeah, it's 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.000 just all over the place, and there are going to 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.680 be examples like this, I think in any given culture. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:15.920 But then again, who had turned down the thirteenth donut? 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.840 We talked about about how numbers of how we calculate 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.200 numbers when it comes to food, Like, is anyone going 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.920 to say no, please hold the thirteenth donut. I don't 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.199 want it to be unlucky. You would say, why, certainly, 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:30.080 one more donut, the more the mirror. 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.600 Oh but wait, we didn't get to Nathan's ps yet, 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:37.000 so Nathan also says, weird house ps. Y'all gotta do. Pumpkinhead. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.920 I know, like you mentioned about legend, there's something missing 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.280 that's hard to pin down, and I admit nostalgia compels 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.560 me to watch it each Halloween. It was Stan Winston's 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.160 only feature directing credit, but the creature, the sets, the 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.880 Witch's hovel alone is worth the viewing. The shantytown, the 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.960 holler with the cursed pumpkin patch so gorgeous. I watched 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.320 the film for years before I realized slight spoiler that 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.720 each time the creature appears, he more closely resembles Lance Henrickson. 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:12.080 Fun fact, Pumpkinhead features a pre blossom Miambi Alec, while 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:18.040 Pumpkinhead two features a post punky Brewster SOLEI moon Fry parentheses. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.640 Don't watch the sequels though, and the dog Gypsy is 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:26.400 played by Mushroom, the same pooch who played Barney in Grimlins. 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:31.320 All right, wow, Unfortunately I have seen Pumpkinhead two, and 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.800 I agree that Pumpkinhead is one of those movies that 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.640 has a lot going for it. It has some wonderful 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:40.000 production design, great creature effects, and yeah that you know, 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.679 the sets are great, the witches, hovel, the graveyard and 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.880 all that. Something I feel like is kind of lacking 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.760 at the core of it in the story, but it 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.160 does have a lot of great horror elements and some 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.200 wonderful atmosphere. On the other hand, I unfortunately have seen 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.160 at least one of the sequels. It's been a while. 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.760 I recall it being not good, not good at all. 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:03.640 You know, I don't think I've ever seen one of 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.959 these in full. They were just some of them were 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.440 would be on like I think, kind of like a 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.480 Turner channel, maybe a USA or something. So it was 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.200 just part of these films were just part of like 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.080 the cable background static for me when I was a kid. 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.679 So at some point I should go back and watch one, 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.560 if only to appreciate the visual texture of the thing. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:24.560 I don't know how many movies they made it to 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:25.280 in the end, the. 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.720 Four, I think four movies total. 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.160 They're really going to keep working that concept, but you know, 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.200 they also did make a video game. 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.320 Really for what systems are? 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.560 I think it was an It was a computer game, 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.720 I think. Hold on, I pulled up the link here, 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:45.000 let me click the link. Yeah, it was a first 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:50.400 person shooter computer game that I think was for like 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.640 ran On DAWs. Basically, it was a computer game. Huh. 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.720 It looks absolutely atrocious. I've never played it, rob I 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.600 did include a screenshot in the outline here for you 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.560 to see. So you're like wandering around in a gray 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.160 maze with gray walls and gray ceilings, low gray ceilings, 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:12.040 gray floors, and then you will see scary things like ooh, 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.360 here's a skeleton, and here's like a floating face without 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.840 a body, and and then there's a bunch of meters 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.840 and stuff. I guess that's your life and magic and stuff. 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:27.480 It looks horrible, one of the many like Doom clones 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:27.960 of the day. 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:28.480 I guess. 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:30.960 Wait wait, wait, but we have the question of where 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:32.400 where the wizard's name comes from? 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.440 Rob Oh, yeah, Argomanganese. You know, I'm not sure exactly. 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.120 There may be a little mst in there. There's probably 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.800 a little bit of Ozomandias in there. There's a little 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.400 bit of Manganese. But the short version is that it's 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.000 a wizard name I made up on the fly in 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.680 a Dungeons and Dragons campaign back in like twenty sixteen. 0:15:50.720 --> 0:16:01.320 I think, Ah, all. 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.000 Right, this next one comes to us from Dennis on 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.520 the subject of star trek and ramming speed. Yes, there 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.760 is some more great stuff in this bucket. 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:11.920 Oh wait, I guess we should say this is in 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.920 response to our episodes on the ore powered galleys of 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:16.120 the ancient Mediterranean. 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:16.840 Yeah. 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.520 Yeah, So this was basically throughout the question we were like, 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.960 are there ship rammings and star trek? It seems like 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.640 there would be, since so much of it is based 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.840 on nautical warfare, And indeed there are multiple examples, and 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.040 we keep getting new examples, which I love. So Dennis 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.360 writes and says, Hello, Rob, Joe and JJ, longtime listener here. 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.240 I'd again like to thank you for the many hours 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.360 of enjoyment your podcast has given me over the years. 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.800 I started listing with Talos the Bronze Automaton when I 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.200 started working a job with a very long commute. I've 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.240 been hooked since. In your recent Ores and Wine Dark 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.720 Seas episodes, you made mention that star Trek must have 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:55.720 had some ramming incidents, if not several, and it's basically 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.480 naval battles in space. You'd also mentioned Warhammer forty thousand 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:04.840 and it predilection for rammable vessels. You'll be interested to 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.720 know that there's almost a crossover between the two. A 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.280 Star Trek space vessel ramming scene featuring what has to 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.960 be the most forty k ship ever to grace the 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.920 Trek franchise, and of course it's a Klingon one. May 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:22.240 I present the Klingon Cleave ship from Star Trek Discovery. 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.040 Now, I followed the link to look this up. It's 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.679 like a Star Trek Memory Alpha link. But like, the 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.480 pictures don't show a very clear view of the ship. 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:32.639 And I think that's because this is supposed to be 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.400 kind of a stealth ship or one that's in deep cloaking, 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.200 so it looks almost translucent. 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.120 Yeah. I looked at the pictures on Memory Alpha and 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.840 I didn't get a clear sense of it either. But 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.119 then I looked up some other images and I think 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:52.040 I got what they were going for. Okay, Dennis continues. 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.200 The ship features in the first episode of the first season, 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.000 which incidentally, this means I've actually seen this episode, but 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.959 I've forgotten it was a ramming vessel, as well as 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.040 the last episode of the second season, where its role 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.920 is to slowly crush and do other ships while cloaked, 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.959 giving its target no chance to dodge, unlike other Trek ships, 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.680 but like a classical Tryrem, it's built to ram a 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.800 target with a massive, heavy bladed keel that makes short 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.000 work of opposing ships, crushing them slowly like the Tryrem's 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:27.840 prowlwood rather than a high speed ramming. It hasn't been 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.679 seen since, likely because it's such an odd fit and 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:36.040 because Discovery Star Trek Discovery changed its style dramatically in 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:40.159 succeeding seasons. But it's just so ridiculous and wondrously metal 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.720 and very warhammer, standing out from typical Star Trek fair 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:45.960 Thanks again and best wishes, Dennis. 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.000 Yeah, it is interesting how the concept of having this 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.879 heavy keel and slowly crushing opposing ships it kind of 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.840 feels out of character for Star Trek battles. It does 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.560 feel a little bit more like something from a grim 0:18:58.680 --> 0:18:59.960 dark sci fi world. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.600 Yeah, and I think this kind of sums up at 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.800 least that first season of Star Trek Discovery, which I 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.399 haven't seen all of but and I paid attention to 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.720 some of the back and forth about it when it 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:12.320 came out, and I have watched I think the first 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:17.520 two episodes. Because it is just visual overload. They really 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.040 made an effort to like take Star Trek and not 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.720 change I think the way they've described it is that 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:24.720 they were they made the decision to, look, we're not 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.840 going to mess with the lore, but we can change 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.760 the way the lore is visually represented. And so like 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:36.160 the Klingons look kind of like space orcs. Like everything 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.960 they're wearing is just like just designed to the nines. 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.880 It's like just a very very rich ship, interiors very 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:48.160 dark gothic and indeed kind of grim dark. Everything feels 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.600 at once like Star Trek but also like a new Beast, 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.040 And I did, you know, I'm not sure I love. 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.159 I ultimately loved what they were going for, but I 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:02.560 appreciated the effort that they we're putting into it. For instance, 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:04.920 I remember there was something about I don't know if 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.000 this was all ships or just like a particular like 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.719 cling on Sarcophagus ship, but they actually had like tombs 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.760 on the exterior. The whole of the vessel, so they 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.359 put a lot of imagination to it. I'm not sure 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.919 everyone loved it, and I think they kind of backed 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:23.000 off from it, certainly in some of the Star Trek 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:26.359 shows that came after this, and I guess maybe in 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:28.040 later seasons as well. 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:30.920 Tombs on the outside of the ship. 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:35.200 That's I like that, Yeah, why not, you know, thinking 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:37.200 outside the loure box on that one. I like it. 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:39.720 Well, this is what we asked for. Thank you, Dennis. 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.359 Another shorter email on ancient galleys and ramming. This is 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.600 from Dimitri, who says, Hi, Robin Joe, well listening to 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:55.400 the Ancient Oars Part three, I was pleasantly surprised when 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:59.120 you mentioned the Athlete Ram as you said. It's located 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.119 in the Hyphamir Time Museum, and Hypha is my hometown. 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:06.320 I visited this museum many times a while ago when 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:08.240 the kids were smaller, and I have to say, the 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.800 ram looks really impressive in real life. Attached is my 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.119 photo inside the museum of how the ram is displayed, 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.040 taken back in twenty seventeen. They also have an estimated 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.520 model of the trirem near the ram, and it contributes 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.960 to the impression and yes, when you see it you 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:29.640 immediately understand that these things are built to smash, not pierce. 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:32.840 And then Dimitri attaches the picture. It says, thanks for 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.920 the great content, Dmitri. And when you do see the 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:37.760 ram up close. Yeah, so this is one of those 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:41.320 bronze fittings that would go over the wooden part of 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.320 the boat that extends out the front. And remember that 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:47.200 it's not a sharp point because the boat doesn't want 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:49.600 to get stuck in the boat it's ramming. Instead, it 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.320 has three horizontal bronze fins that are sort of boxy 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.320