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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. Listener mail.

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Speaker 2: My name is Robert.

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Speaker 3: Lamb, and I am Joe McCormick and Rob and I

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Speaker 3: are here with our loyal mail bot Carney to read

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Speaker 3: back some messages you have sent in to the Stuff

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Speaker 3: to Blow your Mind email address over the past few weeks, which,

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Speaker 3: by the way, if you want to get in touch yourself,

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Speaker 3: that is contact at Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

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Speaker 3: We love messages of all kinds, especially feedback to recent episodes.

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Speaker 3: If you've got something interesting you'd like to add to

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Speaker 3: a topic that we've talked about, if you have corrections,

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Speaker 3: if you just want to let us know anything. You know,

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Speaker 3: how you found out about the show, what you do

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Speaker 3: when you listen, that sort of thing. Right on in

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Speaker 3: contact at Stuff to Blow your Mind dot Com. All right, Rob,

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Speaker 3: let's see do you mind if I kick things off

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Speaker 3: with this message from Cindy offering some some pronunciation guidance

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Speaker 3: in response to our episode on the Urukiara, the Lovable

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Speaker 3: Wobbly Mascots of Japan. Sure let's have it, okay, Cindy says, Hi,

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Speaker 3: Robert and Joe longtime listener, and I've emailed in the

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Speaker 3: past as well. I still love your podcast, including Weird House.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if I should write in because I

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Speaker 3: didn't want to come across as a pronunciation pedant, but

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Speaker 3: I think it would be of interest to you as well.

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Speaker 3: I recently listened back to the two part episode about

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Speaker 3: Urukiara and found it fun and informative. However, I did

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Speaker 3: want to let you know that the word kawwaie is

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Speaker 3: not pronounced kowai as most non Japanese speaking English speakers

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Speaker 3: tend to say it. You know, It's funny because years

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Speaker 3: and years ago at this point, we actually did an

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Speaker 3: episode addressing sort of the overlap and convergence of these

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Speaker 3: two terms. I think it was about the sort of

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Speaker 3: cute scary pop culture phenomenon, especially in Japan. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know that sometimes when you do searches

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Speaker 2: in English based on these concepts, you'll end up getting

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Speaker 2: some overlap as well, where you'll realize, oh wait, I

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Speaker 2: thought I was looking up cute and this is clearly

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Speaker 2: stuff that's in the horror creepy context.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, but yeah, so this is what Cindy gets

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Speaker 3: into in the email, Cindy says, first of all, the

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Speaker 3: word for cute isk ye, and the word for scary

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Speaker 3: is co ye. For some reason, when English speakers say

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Speaker 3: cow ye, it comes out sounding much closer to co ye,

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Speaker 3: with a rounded a that sounds more like oh. Cute

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Speaker 3: and scary describe very different qualities, so I think it's

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Speaker 3: worth taking the time to pronounce them clearly. I hear

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Speaker 3: a lot of people saying it like a mashup of

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Speaker 3: both words. The word k ye is pronounced with an

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Speaker 3: a sound, and the e is actually a long e

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Speaker 3: sound co y e. Scary is pronounced k wha and

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Speaker 3: then e. As an email, if you listen to a

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Speaker 3: Japanese speaker saying it online, you will hear the difference.

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Speaker 3: Second of all, this word has worked its way into

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Speaker 3: the mainstream in America, so I thought it was important

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Speaker 3: that you knew the difference, especially if you need to

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Speaker 3: use it for future podcasts. Keep up the great work.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for the hours of fun and informative content.

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Speaker 3: I'm impressed with your vast knowledge and the creative and

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Speaker 3: thoughtful ways which you make connections. Ps. I currently have

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Speaker 3: a bag of rice in my cupboard with a big

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Speaker 3: image of kumaman in it, kumaman air. I always liked

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Speaker 3: kumaman because my last name is Kumano, which is bear

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Speaker 3: plus field. Cindy, Well, thank you for the guideance, Cindy. Yeah. I,

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Speaker 3: as we said, this has come up on the show before,

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Speaker 3: sort of the these two words in the context of

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Speaker 3: each other. And I don't know if it's especially because

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Speaker 3: of my Southern American accent, or if this is just

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Speaker 3: going to be a common way of speaking. But when

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Speaker 3: you have the O and the A sound, between the

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Speaker 3: K and the W sound, there is just a natural

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Speaker 3: tendency for them to sound the same. I think that

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Speaker 3: might be especially true for sort of a Tennessee American

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Speaker 3: accent like mine. It's really hard for me to say

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Speaker 3: it any other way. I have to like slow down

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Speaker 3: and break the word apart into different syllables to say

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Speaker 3: it like a Japanese speaker would.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Likewise, Southern American guy gene here. So we try and

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Speaker 2: get it right. But you know, thanks, thanks for the correction.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I can't promise we always will, but you know,

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Speaker 3: we're doing our.

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Speaker 2: Best, all right. This next one comes to us from

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Speaker 2: let's see, this is from Jim in New Jersey, and

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Speaker 2: this one has to do with odds and evans. I

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Speaker 2: think this is a response to the whole rule of

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Speaker 2: thirds thing and composition that we were talking about. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 2: Jim says Robert Joe and JJ. Steven Spielberg illustrates how

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Speaker 2: he learned the rules of thirds and The Fablements, which

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Speaker 2: is a semi autobiographical film of his family portrayed via

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Speaker 2: the a fictional family the Fables. The main careara, Young

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Speaker 2: Spielberg meets legendary film director John Ford, who is portrayed

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Speaker 2: as a salty curmudgeon. Ford asks young Spielberg if he

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Speaker 2: knows art. Ford points to a few paintings hanging in

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Speaker 2: his office. He asks the young lad to comment on them.

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Speaker 2: When young Spielberg balks and responding, Ford barks at him

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Speaker 2: to point out the horizon in the first painting it's low.

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Speaker 2: In the second painting it's high. Now. I want to

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Speaker 2: add I've not seen the movie in question here, but

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Speaker 2: I had to look it up on IMDb. And it's

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Speaker 2: worth noting that David Lynch plays John Ford in this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an inspired bit of casting, especially how notoriously

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Speaker 3: eccentric John Ford was salty and curmudgeonly by reputation, yes,

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Speaker 3: but also just like a super weird guy. And I

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Speaker 3: should say another thing about the scene is so he

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Speaker 3: has the young Spielberg in his office and john Ford

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Speaker 3: is pointing it like paintings of cowboys, and he says,

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Speaker 3: describe the painting to me, and the young Spielberg at

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Speaker 3: first tries to say what's happening in it. He's like, well,

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Speaker 3: there are three cowboys on horses around it. And he's

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Speaker 3: like no, no, no, no, no, where's the horizon? That's

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Speaker 3: what he's asking him when he does it over and over. Oh.

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Speaker 3: But then after this, the John Ford character played by

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Speaker 3: David Lynch, he caps it by making the lesson explicit.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and Jim here includes some quotes from the film,

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Speaker 2: but basically it comes down to Ford telling the young

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Speaker 2: Spielberg that when the horizon's at the bottom, it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: When it's at the top, it's interesting, but when it's

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Speaker 2: in the middle, it is boring.

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Speaker 3: It is boring. As explative. Yah, I really liked this

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Speaker 3: scene because you can tell the way this would have

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Speaker 3: been approached in a lot of other movies. And again,

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Speaker 3: I think this is based on a real episode that

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Speaker 3: happened to young Steven Spielberg. So also, like what apparently

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Speaker 3: or allegedly happened in real life, you would expect the

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Speaker 3: young director speaking to a kid who aspires to work

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Speaker 3: in the film industry to have a kind a more

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Speaker 3: kind of general wisdom about the spirit of filmmaking or

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Speaker 3: something like that, you know what I mean. And instead

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Speaker 3: he gives them this incredibly specific practical lesson about framing

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Speaker 3: shots and that's all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, as if like this is the one rule,

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Speaker 2: get this and the rest will come anyway, Jim says that, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The next scene is young Spielberg on the back lot

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Speaker 2: and he demonstrates that he has indeed learned the lesson

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Speaker 2: of horizon placement.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, whatever the empirical research says about the universality

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Speaker 3: or non universality of preferences for rule of thirds in art,

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Speaker 3: john Ford is devoted to it. He's there, let's see

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Speaker 3: you ready for me to do this message from Nathan.

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Speaker 3: This is also about our series on odds and evens. Yes,

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Speaker 3: let's do it, Nathan says, Hi, guys, I gotta say,

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Speaker 3: even after twelve or so years of listening, y'all are

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Speaker 3: still pumping out superior programming. I find fascinating. To call

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Speaker 3: it great work is an understatement. Thank you, Nathan. That's

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Speaker 3: very kind, Nathan says. When I heard the odds and

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Speaker 3: evens topic, my mind went to plating immediately. I spent

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Speaker 3: about two decades working in restaurants and learned that the

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Speaker 3: use of even numbers on a dish was considered an

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Speaker 3: amateurish faux pas. This was true regardless of the shape

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Speaker 3: of the plate. I suppose it's the irregular juxtaposition of

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Speaker 3: food against the symmetry of the dish that makes it

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Speaker 3: appealing to the eye. Towards the end of that period,

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Speaker 3: I learned desserts from a chef trained in classical French preparation,

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Speaker 3: who insisted that each serving consisted of three colors, three textures,

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Speaker 3: and three flavors. That's three threes naturally plated and or

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Speaker 3: garnished in odds. He also demanded height and diagonal shapes

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Speaker 3: for whatever that's worth. Oh yeah, you want your desserts

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Speaker 3: to be tall, right, no flat deserts. I don't know

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Speaker 3: how to check the veracity of this claim, but I

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Speaker 3: once heard that traditional play in threes or fives came

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Speaker 3: from Asian cultures. It is true, in part at least,

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Speaker 3: that in both Chinese and Japanese the word for the

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Speaker 3: number four is similar enough to the word for death

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Speaker 3: that the number is considered unlucky and thus avoided. Why

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Speaker 3: that would influence European cuisine seems hard to research. And

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Speaker 3: it's not really about even numbers in this case, just

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Speaker 3: the number four. Any thoughts, just human aesthetics anyway, gents,

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Speaker 3: keep them coming, Rob, any chance you will reveal the

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Speaker 3: origin of the name Argomandanese. I suspect some M S

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Speaker 3: T three K inspiration your loyal listener, Nathan.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Well, well, there's a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 2: thoughts in there, I guess, starting with the subject of

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Speaker 2: food and numerals and different cultures. I think the examples

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Speaker 2: of threes and fives in Asian cultures like this is

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Speaker 2: just in general, a good example of something we did

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Speaker 2: talk about, and that is that there are so many

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Speaker 2: factors influencing the way that numbers are p and you'll

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Speaker 2: have things like this occur in a culture where yeah,

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Speaker 2: particular number will have a lucky you know, a lucky

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Speaker 2: or an unlucky connotation, and then it ripples out from there,

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Speaker 2: and then that's going to influence the way those numbers

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Speaker 2: are used, at least in some cases and other times not.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. So for example, we talked in one of

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Speaker 3: those episodes on Odds and Evens about research showing that,

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Speaker 3: you know, maybe people view even numbers as more kind

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Speaker 3: of stable and friendly and good in general, but then

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Speaker 3: also especially like people perceive multiples of four as extremely even,

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Speaker 3: like more even than even. But you know, these studies

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Speaker 3: are mostly among like English speaking Westerners, and you wonder

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Speaker 3: if the same would be true and say a culture

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Speaker 3: where the number four among many people is considered unlucky

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Speaker 3: because of a homophone association with the concept of death.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and again it's like, we can we can point

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Speaker 2: to examples of within Western culture where you end up

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Speaker 2: with with the situations that seem to contradict each other, like,

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Speaker 2: for instance, thirteen, what unlucky number? Right, And you see

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Speaker 2: all sorts of wacky things that are done to avoid

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Speaker 2: listing thirteen, such as like skipping thirteen in a floor

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Speaker 2: plan for a building in the elevator or I was

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Speaker 2: noticing this the other day. I was with my family

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Speaker 2: to an art opening and it was next to like

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Speaker 2: a firehouse, I believe, and it was like, I guess

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Speaker 2: it was like firehouse thirteen. But they're like, well, we

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Speaker 2: got to put thirteen up there, but we're going to

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Speaker 2: put it on a four leaf clover, so like a

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Speaker 2: four leaf clover design was added, So we'll do things

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Speaker 2: like that. But then we come back to the idea

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Speaker 2: of the baker's dozen being like thirteen donuts or what

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Speaker 2: have you. And of course the reasons for that are

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Speaker 2: related to an entirely separate matter that has to do

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Speaker 2: with like I think, like old baking laws, like old

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Speaker 2: baking European baking laws. But you know, they contradict each

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Speaker 2: other on one hand, like oh, you demand your thirteen

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Speaker 2: doughnuts or biscuits or whatever it is, And on the

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Speaker 2: other hand, there would seem to be an impulse to

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Speaker 2: never give the customer thirteen donuts. What are you trying

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Speaker 2: to do bring death upon their house? So yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: just all over the place, and there are going to

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Speaker 2: be examples like this, I think in any given culture.

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Speaker 2: But then again, who had turned down the thirteenth donut?

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Speaker 2: We talked about about how numbers of how we calculate

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Speaker 2: numbers when it comes to food, Like, is anyone going

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Speaker 2: to say no, please hold the thirteenth donut. I don't

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Speaker 2: want it to be unlucky. You would say, why, certainly,

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Speaker 2: one more donut, the more the mirror.

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Speaker 3: Oh but wait, we didn't get to Nathan's ps yet,

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Speaker 3: so Nathan also says, weird house ps. Y'all gotta do. Pumpkinhead.

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Speaker 3: I know, like you mentioned about legend, there's something missing

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Speaker 3: that's hard to pin down, and I admit nostalgia compels

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Speaker 3: me to watch it each Halloween. It was Stan Winston's

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Speaker 3: only feature directing credit, but the creature, the sets, the

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Speaker 3: Witch's hovel alone is worth the viewing. The shantytown, the

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Speaker 3: holler with the cursed pumpkin patch so gorgeous. I watched

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Speaker 3: the film for years before I realized slight spoiler that

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Speaker 3: each time the creature appears, he more closely resembles Lance Henrickson.

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Speaker 3: Fun fact, Pumpkinhead features a pre blossom Miambi Alec, while

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Speaker 3: Pumpkinhead two features a post punky Brewster SOLEI moon Fry parentheses.

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Speaker 3: Don't watch the sequels though, and the dog Gypsy is

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Speaker 3: played by Mushroom, the same pooch who played Barney in Grimlins.

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Speaker 3: All right, wow, Unfortunately I have seen Pumpkinhead two, and

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Speaker 3: I agree that Pumpkinhead is one of those movies that

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Speaker 3: has a lot going for it. It has some wonderful

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Speaker 3: production design, great creature effects, and yeah that you know,

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Speaker 3: the sets are great, the witches, hovel, the graveyard and

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Speaker 3: all that. Something I feel like is kind of lacking

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Speaker 3: at the core of it in the story, but it

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Speaker 3: does have a lot of great horror elements and some

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Speaker 3: wonderful atmosphere. On the other hand, I unfortunately have seen

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Speaker 3: at least one of the sequels. It's been a while.

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Speaker 3: I recall it being not good, not good at all.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't think I've ever seen one of

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Speaker 2: these in full. They were just some of them were

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Speaker 2: would be on like I think, kind of like a

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Speaker 2: Turner channel, maybe a USA or something. So it was

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Speaker 2: just part of these films were just part of like

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Speaker 2: the cable background static for me when I was a kid.

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Speaker 2: So at some point I should go back and watch one,

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Speaker 2: if only to appreciate the visual texture of the thing.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how many movies they made it to

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Speaker 3: in the end, the.

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Speaker 2: Four, I think four movies total.

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Speaker 3: They're really going to keep working that concept, but you know,

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Speaker 3: they also did make a video game.

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Speaker 2: Really for what systems are?

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Speaker 3: I think it was an It was a computer game,

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Speaker 3: I think. Hold on, I pulled up the link here,

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Speaker 3: let me click the link. Yeah, it was a first

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Speaker 3: person shooter computer game that I think was for like

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Speaker 3: ran On DAWs. Basically, it was a computer game. Huh.

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Speaker 3: It looks absolutely atrocious. I've never played it, rob I

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Speaker 3: did include a screenshot in the outline here for you

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Speaker 3: to see. So you're like wandering around in a gray

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Speaker 3: maze with gray walls and gray ceilings, low gray ceilings,

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Speaker 3: gray floors, and then you will see scary things like ooh,

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Speaker 3: here's a skeleton, and here's like a floating face without

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Speaker 3: a body, and and then there's a bunch of meters

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Speaker 3: and stuff. I guess that's your life and magic and stuff.

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Speaker 2: It looks horrible, one of the many like Doom clones

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Speaker 2: of the day.

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Speaker 4: I guess.

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Speaker 3: Wait wait, wait, but we have the question of where

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Speaker 3: where the wizard's name comes from?

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Speaker 2: Rob Oh, yeah, Argomanganese. You know, I'm not sure exactly.

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Speaker 2: There may be a little mst in there. There's probably

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Speaker 2: a little bit of Ozomandias in there. There's a little

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Speaker 2: bit of Manganese. But the short version is that it's

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Speaker 2: a wizard name I made up on the fly in

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Speaker 2: a Dungeons and Dragons campaign back in like twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 4: I think, Ah, all.

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Speaker 2: Right, this next one comes to us from Dennis on

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Speaker 2: the subject of star trek and ramming speed. Yes, there

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Speaker 2: is some more great stuff in this bucket.

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Speaker 3: Oh wait, I guess we should say this is in

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Speaker 3: response to our episodes on the ore powered galleys of

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Speaker 3: the ancient Mediterranean.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So this was basically throughout the question we were like,

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Speaker 2: are there ship rammings and star trek? It seems like

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Speaker 2: there would be, since so much of it is based

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Speaker 2: on nautical warfare, And indeed there are multiple examples, and

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Speaker 2: we keep getting new examples, which I love. So Dennis

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Speaker 2: writes and says, Hello, Rob, Joe and JJ, longtime listener here.

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Speaker 2: I'd again like to thank you for the many hours

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Speaker 2: of enjoyment your podcast has given me over the years.

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Speaker 2: I started listing with Talos the Bronze Automaton when I

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Speaker 2: started working a job with a very long commute. I've

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Speaker 2: been hooked since. In your recent Ores and Wine Dark

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Speaker 2: Seas episodes, you made mention that star Trek must have

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Speaker 2: had some ramming incidents, if not several, and it's basically

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Speaker 2: naval battles in space. You'd also mentioned Warhammer forty thousand

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Speaker 2: and it predilection for rammable vessels. You'll be interested to

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Speaker 2: know that there's almost a crossover between the two. A

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Speaker 2: Star Trek space vessel ramming scene featuring what has to

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Speaker 2: be the most forty k ship ever to grace the

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Speaker 2: Trek franchise, and of course it's a Klingon one. May

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Speaker 2: I present the Klingon Cleave ship from Star Trek Discovery.

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Speaker 3: Now, I followed the link to look this up. It's

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Speaker 3: like a Star Trek Memory Alpha link. But like, the

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Speaker 3: pictures don't show a very clear view of the ship.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's because this is supposed to be

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Speaker 3: kind of a stealth ship or one that's in deep cloaking,

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Speaker 3: so it looks almost translucent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I looked at the pictures on Memory Alpha and

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Speaker 2: I didn't get a clear sense of it either. But

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Speaker 2: then I looked up some other images and I think

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Speaker 2: I got what they were going for. Okay, Dennis continues.

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Speaker 2: The ship features in the first episode of the first season,

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Speaker 2: which incidentally, this means I've actually seen this episode, but

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Speaker 2: I've forgotten it was a ramming vessel, as well as

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Speaker 2: the last episode of the second season, where its role

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Speaker 2: is to slowly crush and do other ships while cloaked,

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Speaker 2: giving its target no chance to dodge, unlike other Trek ships,

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Speaker 2: but like a classical Tryrem, it's built to ram a

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Speaker 2: target with a massive, heavy bladed keel that makes short

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Speaker 2: work of opposing ships, crushing them slowly like the Tryrem's

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Speaker 2: prowlwood rather than a high speed ramming. It hasn't been

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Speaker 2: seen since, likely because it's such an odd fit and

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Speaker 2: because Discovery Star Trek Discovery changed its style dramatically in

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Speaker 2: succeeding seasons. But it's just so ridiculous and wondrously metal

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Speaker 2: and very warhammer, standing out from typical Star Trek fair

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Speaker 2: Thanks again and best wishes, Dennis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is interesting how the concept of having this

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Speaker 3: heavy keel and slowly crushing opposing ships it kind of

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Speaker 3: feels out of character for Star Trek battles. It does

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Speaker 3: feel a little bit more like something from a grim

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Speaker 3: dark sci fi world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think this kind of sums up at

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Speaker 2: least that first season of Star Trek Discovery, which I

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Speaker 2: haven't seen all of but and I paid attention to

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Speaker 2: some of the back and forth about it when it

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Speaker 2: came out, and I have watched I think the first

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Speaker 2: two episodes. Because it is just visual overload. They really

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Speaker 2: made an effort to like take Star Trek and not

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Speaker 2: change I think the way they've described it is that

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Speaker 2: they were they made the decision to, look, we're not

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Speaker 2: going to mess with the lore, but we can change

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Speaker 2: the way the lore is visually represented. And so like

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Speaker 2: the Klingons look kind of like space orcs. Like everything

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Speaker 2: they're wearing is just like just designed to the nines.

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Speaker 2: It's like just a very very rich ship, interiors very

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Speaker 2: dark gothic and indeed kind of grim dark. Everything feels

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Speaker 2: at once like Star Trek but also like a new Beast,

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Speaker 2: And I did, you know, I'm not sure I love.

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Speaker 2: I ultimately loved what they were going for, but I

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Speaker 2: appreciated the effort that they we're putting into it. For instance,

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Speaker 2: I remember there was something about I don't know if

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Speaker 2: this was all ships or just like a particular like

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Speaker 2: cling on Sarcophagus ship, but they actually had like tombs

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Speaker 2: on the exterior. The whole of the vessel, so they

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Speaker 2: put a lot of imagination to it. I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: everyone loved it, and I think they kind of backed

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Speaker 2: off from it, certainly in some of the Star Trek

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Speaker 2: shows that came after this, and I guess maybe in

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Speaker 2: later seasons as well.

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Speaker 3: Tombs on the outside of the ship.

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Speaker 2: That's I like that, Yeah, why not, you know, thinking

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Speaker 2: outside the loure box on that one. I like it.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is what we asked for. Thank you, Dennis.

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Speaker 3: Another shorter email on ancient galleys and ramming. This is

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Speaker 3: from Dimitri, who says, Hi, Robin Joe, well listening to

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Speaker 3: the Ancient Oars Part three, I was pleasantly surprised when

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Speaker 3: you mentioned the Athlete Ram as you said. It's located

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Speaker 3: in the Hyphamir Time Museum, and Hypha is my hometown.

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Speaker 3: I visited this museum many times a while ago when

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Speaker 3: the kids were smaller, and I have to say, the

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Speaker 3: ram looks really impressive in real life. Attached is my

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Speaker 3: photo inside the museum of how the ram is displayed,

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Speaker 3: taken back in twenty seventeen. They also have an estimated

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Speaker 3: model of the trirem near the ram, and it contributes

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Speaker 3: to the impression and yes, when you see it you

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Speaker 3: immediately understand that these things are built to smash, not pierce.

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Speaker 3: And then Dimitri attaches the picture. It says, thanks for

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Speaker 3: the great content, Dmitri. And when you do see the

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Speaker 3: ram up close. Yeah, so this is one of those

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Speaker 3: bronze fittings that would go over the wooden part of

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Speaker 3: the boat that extends out the front. And remember that

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Speaker 3: it's not a sharp point because the boat doesn't want

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Speaker 3: to get stuck in the boat it's ramming. Instead, it

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Speaker 3: has three horizontal bronze fins that are sort of boxy

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Speaker 3: and square shaped at the edge. Clearly the idea is

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Speaker 3: to hit the wood of the opposing boat and try

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Speaker 3: to separate the planks to make them start coming apart

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Speaker 3: and taking on water.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very cool. I really appreciate the photograph here, not

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Speaker 2: only the artifact, but of this very cool model. I

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Speaker 2: love a great ship model a museum. All right, here's

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Speaker 2: another one. This one comes to us from Ahmed. Ahmed says,

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Speaker 2: Hey guys, Ahmed, here again, I loved your episode on

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Speaker 2: Ores and I couldn't help but think of the Odyssey

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Speaker 2: and how the ore is used as a marker of

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Speaker 2: Mediterranean identity. Toward the end, Odysseus, after his long travels,

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Speaker 2: is told by an oracle to take an ore from

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Speaker 2: his ship and walk inland until somebody mistakes it for

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Speaker 2: a winnowing fan, i e. A tool for blowing away

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Speaker 2: the chaff when separating grain from husks. The oracle says

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Speaker 2: this is the point when Odysseus's journey will be over

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Speaker 2: for good. I thought it was so cool how in

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Speaker 2: this way knowledge of what an ore even is is

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Speaker 2: considered the marker of greekness and of belonging to our

421
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Speaker 2: favorite wine dark seas. I think the pre industrial process

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Speaker 2: of grains harvesting, threshing, winning, etc. Would make a good

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Speaker 2: topic for episodes. It's given us lots of metaphors in

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Speaker 2: everyday life, and there are lots of cultural historical tie

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Speaker 2: ins given how important these staple crops were, that I

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Speaker 2: feel would be great stuffed to blow your mind material.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think that's a great idea. Thank you, Ahmed,

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Speaker 3: And I did not remember this moment from the Odyssey

429
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 3: at all, but yes, the idea is what when you

430
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 3: get far enough inland, they will not realize that the

431
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 3: ore is for rowing, because it's no longer a culture

432
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 3: of the sea. They will just think it is for

433
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 3: blowing away the chaff from grain harvested from the fields.

434
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 3: I guess going from the sea to the fields.

435
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember this detail either, but I

436
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 2: love it.

437
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 3: Okay. I'm going to move on to do a message

438
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 3: in response to our Ignobel episodes. So we usually do

439
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 3: a couple of episodes each year on studies featured in

440
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 3: that year's Ignobel Prizes. These are satirical awards given out

441
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 3: by a scientific humor magazine called the Annals of Improbable Research.

442
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 3: These awards are given out for research that, in the

443
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 3: words of the awarders, is supposed to make you laugh

444
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,959
Speaker 3: and then make you think. So this first email references

445
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 3: one of the studies we talked about in part one

446
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: of our Ignobel series this year, an older experiment from

447
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 3: the nineteen forties in which a group of ag scientists

448
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 3: were trying to figure out the impact of fear and

449
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 3: stress on the milk yield from dairy cows. And what

450
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 3: was funny was that an early version of this experiment

451
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: involved putting a cat on a cow's back and then

452
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 3: exploding an inflated paper bag at the cat and the cow.

453
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 3: I think they eventually decided the cat, the cat stacking

454
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 3: part was unnecessary. Is that right, Rob?

455
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 2: That's correct? And you know, after we recorded this, I'm

456
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 2: not going to name any names here, but of course

457
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 2: the ignobels always generate some discussion on popular news and

458
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: news comedy programs. But I saw some some jokes about

459
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 2: this that didn't acknowledge that this was an experiment from

460
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: the nineteen forties, you know, And so I think that

461
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 2: is important to note here. They're like, this was not

462
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: last year, This was the nineteen forties, but I think

463
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 2: it was nineteen.

464
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 3: Forty one, so the opposite end of the forties.

465
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: So it's been a while. Yeah, but yeah, you know,

466
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: the Eggnobell's always always make the headlines and people have

467
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: fun with them, and you're supposed to have fun with them,

468
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: so fair enough.

469
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 3: And I think they did find that the paper bag

470
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 3: popping made the cows give less milk, right.

471
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: Right, right, they did. And there were other wrinkles to

472
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 2: this experiment as well, but basically they just realized, oh,

473
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: the cat is not necessary. The exploding paper bag is sufficient.

474
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 3: Right. So in this context, we heard from our listener,

475
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 3: Meg Meg writes in with subject line cows and boobs.

476
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 3: As I was listening to your recent ignobell number one,

477
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 3: I was struck by the similarities between cows and US

478
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: human women. Many women experience issues with breastfeeding, the let down,

479
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 3: the latching, making it all work right after birth. You

480
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 3: are stressed and freaked out as you now have a

481
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,239
Speaker 3: new human to look after. Maybe you're all stitched up

482
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 3: from a c section, and then you have to figure

483
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 3: out how to get this little thing to latch onto

484
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 3: your breast. What if you don't have milk, What if

485
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 3: it doesn't work, What if you can't give the baby

486
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 3: that ever important milk. We may not have a cat

487
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 3: on our back and a bag exploding, but we are

488
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 3: super stressed. The difference in stress and worry and breastfeeding

489
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: between my first and second kids was night and day.

490
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 3: I was less stressed and less worried and calm the

491
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: second time, and it was much more successful. I wonder

492
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 3: if any scientists have turned their gaze from animals to

493
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 3: human women and the stress around breastfeeding and birth and

494
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 3: that ever pesky let down. Thanks love you, guys, and

495
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 3: then Meg gets in touch with the second email a PS.

496
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 3: Another thought that occurred to me is that us. Human

497
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: ladies also get hooked up to pump milk, often for

498
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 3: various reasons, and a calm and RESTful, safe place to

499
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 3: do that also affects the milk we produce. I recall

500
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 3: a time I had to pump in an airport because

501
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 3: there were no lactation rooms and there was no plug

502
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 3: in the bathroom. I had to plug my breast pump

503
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 3: into a cell phone charging station and pump next to

504
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 3: people charging their phones. So that was a pretty stressful

505
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 3: pumping environment. Again, links between cows pumping and human pumping

506
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: and stress, and that's the end. Well, thank you, Meg.

507
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 3: Fantastic couple of emails, touching on a really interesting and

508
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 3: important topic. I'm sure that lots of parents can relate

509
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 3: to this. I was talking to my wife Rachel about

510
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: this before we recorded, and we were talking about how

511
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 3: like it might be kind of hard to understand, like

512
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 3: to make the comparison there with the influence of stress,

513
00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: just because having a newborn is almost always very stressful,

514
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: you know. But it's true that even if the near

515
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 3: universal baseline is stressed out, you can have gradations beyond that.

516
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: I guess stressed out versus extremely stressed out and with

517
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 3: those day to day variations. I guess a lot of

518
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 3: people probably will notice what seems to be a relationship

519
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 3: between breastfeeding outcomes and stress. So, Meg, you asked if

520
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 3: there was empirical research on this, I checked, and yes,

521
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 3: there is one fairly recent paper with a lot of

522
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 3: citations that I came across is by Emily Nagel at

523
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 3: All published in the journal Clinical Therapeutics in twenty twenty

524
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: two called Maternal Psychological Distress and Lactation and Breastfeeding Outcomes,

525
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: a narrative review. This is a review of the existing

526
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: scientific literature on links between psychological distress, so not just stress,

527
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: but this would include things like stress, anxiety, and depression,

528
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 3: so various forms of psychological distress and people having difficulty

529
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 3: achieving their breastfeeding goals. You can go look this paper

530
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: up if you want. You can read it in depth.

531
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: The full text is available on PubMed so you can

532
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 3: read the whole thing. The results they reviewed, they say,

533
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 3: are kind of difficult to combine because different methods and

534
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: measurements have been used across different experiments. But the short

535
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 3: summary of their findings is that yes, absolutely, there is

536
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 3: pretty good evidence that maternal psychological distress can impair multiple

537
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 3: breastfeeding outcomes, and this might be in part because stress

538
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 3: or psychological distress can hold back internal production of a

539
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 3: very important hormone called oxytocin, and oxytocin in turn plays

540
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 3: an important role in the milk ejection reflex. So they

541
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 3: propose that's a very likely candidate for a major explanation

542
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: why stress would impair breastfeeding outcomes. But they also propose

543
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 3: some other physiological mechanisms, and they also talk about how

544
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 3: the effect. I think this is probably also relatable to

545
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 3: a lot of people. The effect may be bi directional,

546
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: so stress or other psychological distress gets in the way

547
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 3: of lactation and feeding goals, which itself leads to more stress, etc.

548
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 3: And so it's kind of a feedback loop. But ultimately

549
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: the authors here say quote evidence to date suggests that

550
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: maternal psychological distress may impair lactation and breastfeeding outcomes, but

551
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 3: stronger study designs and rigorous assessment methods are needed. A

552
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 3: better understanding of the physiological mechanisms leading to impaired lactation

553
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: may assist in the development of early interventions for mothers

554
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: experiencing distress. In addition, stress reducing programs and policies should

555
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 3: be investigated for their potential to improve breastfeeding outcomes. So

556
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 3: obviously that could be a lot of things to just

557
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 3: generally improve people's conditions, increase comfort, increase support levels, decrease

558
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 3: stressful stimuli while people are trying to take care of

559
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 3: a newborn. Meg mentions one great way to help, and

560
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 3: that would be if you're designing public places where people

561
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 3: are going to have to spend a lot of time,

562
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: like an airport or whatever, having private quiet spaces that

563
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 3: could be used for lactation. That's a big help. That

564
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 3: cell phone charging station story is is ish.

565
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I do appreciate that they have those. I

566
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: always think of this as kind of like telepods from

567
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: the fly, Yeah, that folks can use at the airports

568
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: these days.

569
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 3: So anyway, thank you so much, Meg, great email, great connection,

570
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 3: and great question.

571
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,959
Speaker 2: All right, let's get into a little weird house cinema

572
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 2: listener mail here. This one comes to us from Joseph

573
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 2: in response to our episode on It Conquered the World.

574
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: Joseph says, you suggested a sequel where the invaders promise

575
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 2: an end to logic, offering the ecstasy of pure sensation

576
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: and emotion. I submit to you, gentlemen, that the film

577
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: already exists. It is called Hell Raiser.

578
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: Joseph, that's good, that's very good. I don't know if

579
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 3: I would have said on my own that that's the

580
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: goal of the Cinnabyites and Hell Raiser, but I buy it.

581
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 3: That's a close enough fit.

582
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it certainly touches on some of the

583
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: way that the Cinabytes are described in the original novella

584
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: The Hell Bound Heart by Clive Barker, which I highly recommend.

585
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it stands up. It's been

586
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: several years since I read it, but I remember thinking

587
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: of the time that it stood up, so maybe it

588
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,959
Speaker 2: still stands up today. I don't know if the films

589
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 2: ever really explore this so much. You know, they end

590
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 2: up being a little bit more overtly evil, chaotic evil even.

591
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, in the in the original text, there is

592
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 2: this sense that they just don't know what pleasure and

593
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: pain are anymore, Like the lines have been blurred so

594
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: much that they're like, you know, they think they're doing

595
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: you a solid by removing all of your skin. Why

596
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: would you spare yourself any of these these extreme sensations.

597
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: We don't know what's what's a good extreme sensation anymore,

598
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: or what is a bad extreme sensation. They're all the

599
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: same to you, and we want to share those experiences

600
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: with you with no malice.

601
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think in some ways that is a

602
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: parody or caricature of actual states that humans can reach

603
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: in reality. I mean, maybe not to the extent of

604
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 3: the cinnabytes, but you know, there are mindsets people can

605
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 3: get into where essentially what is more important than whether

606
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: an experience is good or bad is just the intensity

607
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: of the experience.

608
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of like watching Hell Raiser sequels, like it

609
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: reaches a point where you're like, am I having a

610
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: good time or is this hurting? Is there any difference anymore?

611
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: What matters is sort of high activation.

612
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, was the how was the special effects makeup? Was

613
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 2: it good?

614
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 3: Okay?

615
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: Then then I gave it was strong? Then I guess

616
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 2: it was a worthwhile experience.

617
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 3: All right. This next Weird House message is from Brian

618
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,479
Speaker 3: on our episode on Beyond the Mind's Eye. This is

619
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 3: the one that's like all the Jon Hamer music videos

620
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 3: with CGI that some of which came from Lawn norm Man. Yeah,

621
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 3: Brian says, Hi, Robin Joe. Thanks so much much for

622
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: covering Beyond the Mind's Eye on Weird House last week.

623
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: It brought me back to some seminal memories of my

624
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 3: early days using the computer. In nineteen ninety three, when

625
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: I was twelve years old, my family got an IBM

626
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 3: for eighty six computer. In no time, I began spending

627
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 3: every day on it, learning to master MS DAWs six

628
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 3: point two, Windows three point one, and CE Basic. At

629
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 3: some point, one of my friends in middle school showed

630
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 3: me a pov ray and I was absolutely blown away.

631
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 3: I'd seen the oversized and overpriced magazines lining the shelves

632
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: of my local Barnes and Noble that focused exclusively on

633
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: the nascent world of computer generated imagery, but I never

634
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 3: thought I would be able to experiment with it myself.

635
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 3: It seemed to exist exclusively in the world of the Amiga,

636
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 3: a computer I'd never even laid eyes on. After my

637
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 3: friend explained to me the basics, I spent hours working

638
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 3: on my first visualization, and after a very long weekend,

639
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 3: I'd done it. I'd created a fl plane with three

640
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 3: or four very reflective spheres. Some were solid, some were checkerboard.

641
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 3: I was a new God. I remember being so proud

642
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 3: of the image that I actually printed it out in

643
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 3: full color. Imagine the cost to show to my parents

644
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 3: and friends. People weren't quite as blown away as I

645
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 3: expected them to be, but I was transfixed. As you

646
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: mentioned in the episode, the language to discuss the appearance

647
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 3: of CGI didn't even exist yet. I remember trying to

648
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 3: explain to people what I was about to show them

649
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 3: and finding it difficult to put into words. I would

650
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 3: describe it as follows quote. You know when you see

651
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 3: those images and they're like realer than real. They look real,

652
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 3: but they're almost too real, Like it can't be the

653
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 3: real thing because it's too perfect. That's what I'm about

654
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: to show you. Five minutes later, I'd pull up my

655
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: latest artscape created with an assemblage of cylinders, spheres, and planes.

656
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 3: Speaking of planes, I think I have an answer to

657
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 3: Joe's question about why the images were often described as

658
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 3: trippy or psychedelic.

659
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 4: Ah.

660
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, to refresh from the episode, that was one of

661
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 3: the things we were sort of analyzing, Like, there's nothing

662
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 3: inherently psychedelic or suggestive of an experience with psychedelic drugs

663
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 3: about animation, So why was that such a common way

664
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 3: of explaining what things like beyond the mind's eye were.

665
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 3: Why did people compare it to drug related experiences. Brian's

666
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 3: answer is, in my opinion, it was a result of

667
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 3: the limitations of the platform. If one created a room

668
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 3: with six orthogonal planes and put a camera in the

669
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 3: center of said room with a specula or ambient light,

670
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 3: the result was not very impressive. It looked like not

671
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 3: very much. The creator had two options. One option was

672
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 3: to apply a pattern to the shape. My aforementioned checkerboard

673
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 3: sphere was a good example. This would create an interesting,

674
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 3: yet otherworldly room whose walls were for some reason patterned

675
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 3: like a checkerboard. The other option was to do away

676
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 3: with five of the planes and make the base plane

677
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 3: extend into virtual infinity. Once this was done, the user

678
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 3: had a wide open space in which to insert floating spheres, pyramids, cylinders, and,

679
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 3: if you were very good, something resembling a teapot. Slap

680
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 3: a camera in the middle of a gold desert populated

681
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 3: with floating pattern spheres, and the result is inevitably psychedelic.

682
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 3: Thanks for the memories. I don't have any of those

683
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 3: old print outs anymore, but I can still remember them

684
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: quite well. Learning pov ray as a twelve year old

685
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 3: was one of the greatest things I ever did on

686
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 3: the computer.

687
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: Brian, Oh wow, a lot of great technical details there.

688
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: I like it.

689
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 3: I can see what Brian's saying about the limitations of

690
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 3: the animation tending toward a representation of infinite planes, which

691
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 3: if you represent infinite planes with weird shapes just floating

692
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: in them, that does tend to suggest a kind of

693
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 3: visionary experience.

694
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: You know. All this discussion also brought me back to

695
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 2: the old three D Mays screensaver on what was the

696
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 2: Windows ninety five, Yeah, which I hadn't thought about it

697
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: in a while, but I ran across this quote. This

698
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: is just in the wiki for it, but this is

699
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: from Jacob Brogan writing for Slade, who said that it

700
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: compared it to watching one's grandparents playing play Wolfenstein three D.

701
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 2: So I think that's it's a pretty great comparison. But

702
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 2: it was. I remember it being kind of mesmerizing and

703
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 2: feeling like really interesting, like, Wow, where's this Mayze taking us?

704
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 3: You know, you take that Mayze screensaver, remove all the colors,

705
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 3: make the walls, floors and ceiling gray, and then you

706
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 3: got the Pumpkinhead game.

707
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I remember just loving the Starscape where

708
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: you know where it's like you're flying through space and

709
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 2: this is just the screen saver. You know, it's amazing.

710
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 3: It was so simple, and that one, it was one

711
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 3: of my favorites. I love. Yeah, all those after dark

712
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 3: screen savers were pretty cool when I was in elementary school.

713
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: Though nowadays I don't even use a screensaver. It's like, well,

714
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 2: the screen just shuts itself off. It just goes for

715
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: real black. That's it great, That's very exciting. It's kind

716
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 2: of where we are the relationship with computers these days.

717
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: It's like is it off good?

718
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 3: Well? Mine has been doing that, but now I feel

719
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 3: like I got to go back to flying toasters. How

720
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 3: do I find a way to download that after we're

721
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 3: done recording?

722
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 4: Now?

723
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let's see we have a few left

724
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 2: here in the immediate grab bag. Let's see, we had

725
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 2: a couple related to Labyrinth. So I want to read

726
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 2: at least one of these. May maybe we can do

727
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: more than one. But this one comes to us from Mike.

728
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 2: Mike says, hey, guys, I just wanted to say hi

729
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: and let you know how timely your Labyrinth episode was

730
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: My wife and I were just amazed at how one

731
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: of our friends had never seen or even heard of

732
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 2: this movie and discussed a watch party to view it.

733
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: Then I see your episode pop up for it kismet,

734
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 2: I say, Anywaho, great episode, as always, but I felt

735
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: I needed to also mention the various scenes where you

736
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 2: can find hidden images of Bowie's face embedded in the sets.

737
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 2: It is as though Jarif is always watching her. My

738
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: favorite example is where the camera pans by some boulders,

739
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 2: and as it does at one point, they all line

740
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 2: up perfectly to make the silhouette of his face for

741
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 2: a moment. It is awesome. Example below, and they include

742
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: a screen grab of this. Thanks as always. PS, I'm

743
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 2: keeping hope alive. You may one day cover Johnny Mnumonic

744
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 2: in a weird house. It is beyond fantastic, and I

745
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: promise worth your time to cover smiley face. Thanks Mike.

746
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 3: I don't remember what part of the movie this was.

747
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: This occurs. I think I think it's possible Sarah and

748
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 2: Hoggle move through here, and then there's another scene where

749
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 2: Hoggle and Jareff have like a powwoll near it. But

750
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 2: I've been interpreted different ways over the years, like is

751
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: it a sign is it a sign of his power

752
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 2: in his megalomania? You know, like he is like the

753
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: dictator of the Goblin realm here, so you know, his

754
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: face would be everywhere, and it is a place of

755
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 2: confusion and riddle and hidden meaning. So yes, of course

756
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 2: it would take this kind of form. But you could

757
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: also interpret it as sort of signifying his own sort

758
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 2: of imprisonment here. You know, like he here, he is

759
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 2: trapped in stone, and he is in a sense like

760
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: trapped here at the top of the Goblin world and

761
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 2: desperately wants maybe not escape. I don't not think escape.

762
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: Escape is possible for him or conceivable for him, but

763
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: he wants something different, and you know that is kind

764
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: of like his struggle in Labyrinth.

765
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 3: Interesting, all right, you want to do one more about Labyrinth?

766
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 3: This one from Lauren.

767
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: Sure.

768
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: This is from Lauren, who says, Hi, Joe and Rob.

769
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 3: This male is in response to your recent episode on

770
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty six is the labyrin I wanted to share

771
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 3: some of my experiences and thoughts. I first want to

772
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 3: talk about my initial encounters with this film in the

773
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 3: early nineties at the end of every school year, without fail,

774
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: the weird foreign art teacher at my elementary school in

775
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 3: Rhode Island would show the film and then have us

776
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 3: all make puppets afterwards. That sounds awesome to me. He

777
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 3: was an odd but seemingly harmless middle aged man with

778
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 3: a dark and dangly, villainous mustache. He used to tweeze

779
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 3: his nosehair as during class, propping up a little mirror

780
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 3: in front of him on his desk. I tried to

781
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 3: search him up on the Internet, but I have no

782
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 3: idea how to spell his Eastern European sounding last name. Anyways,

783
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 3: even as an elementary schooler, I remember thinking it was

784
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 3: odd that the school let him show this film to

785
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 3: a bunch of little kids every year, partially on account

786
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 3: of the mild horrors woven throughout the fantasy, but primarily

787
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 3: on account of the scandalousness of David Bowie's very tight

788
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 3: fitting pants. There were many hushed giggles about it. Anyways,

789
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 3: the yearly experience formed an interesting multi generational link between

790
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 3: all of the kids in town. During college. Once I

791
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 3: was camping with my older brother and his friends, I

792
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 3: was adjusting the rocks around the campfire and absent mindedly

793
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 3: said Ludo friends. One of my brother's friends from high

794
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 3: school heard me and perked up in the most enthusiastic

795
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,919
Speaker 3: and childlike manner of all the shared experiences for people

796
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 3: to bond over. A side note, my older brother was

797
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 3: not part of this elementary school experience. My final comment

798
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 3: is about the riddle of the Four Nights. I always

799
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 3: got the sense that Sarah Jennifer Connelly's character was correct

800
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 3: in her puzzling out of the paradox, but it didn't

801
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 3: matter because she didn't consider the possibility that neither of

802
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 3: them actually knew, which door led to certain doom, that

803
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 3: they were just creatures of chaos and absurdity, like the

804
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 3: majority of the other critters in the labyrinth. Thanks as

805
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 3: always for the awesome content, Lauren.

806
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: Well, that's possible. We talked about the underlying thought experience.

807
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: They're the underlying paradox, and like one of the keys

808
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 2: to the solution working is that truth cannot be lies.

809
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 2: If truth can be lies, then the whole thing falls apart.

810
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I guess the other way that could be

811
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 3: the case is if like neither of them are actually

812
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 3: bound to say true or falser. It's the whole thing's

813
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 3: just made up. They're just messing with her.

814
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 2: I can't accept that. Though I've not too much about

815
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 2: this over time, they it has to be legit. But then,

816
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 2: of course it ends up apparently not mattering all that

817
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: much because she gets cocky and she says that the

818
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 2: labyrinth is a piece of cake, and then it's down

819
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: the hole. She goes into the opliat.

820
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 3: You've got a sunk costs bias on this because you've

821
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 3: already put the work in on figuring out the riddle,

822
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 3: and like, if you've put that work in, you've got

823
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: to believe it means something.

824
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

825
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 3: Wait, I feel like we need to do this one

826
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 3: Immortal Kombat. What do you think?

827
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 2: Sure, let's do it. Let's flow through it. We go

828
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: one more and yeah, we've got a bunch of like

829
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: Halloween weird houses coming up, and I think that's going

830
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 2: to probably get a lot of listener feedback. So we

831
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: need to fit in the Mortal Kombat before we hit

832
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 2: all that. All right, This one's from CEB. CEB says, hi,

833
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: CB here loved your deep analysis of the Mortal Kombat movie.

834
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 2: It's corny, has a sense of fun to it and

835
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 2: makes you want to run a half marathon after listening

836
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: to the soundtrack. Anyway, you were confused about Johnny Cage's

837
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: photo in the movie. The photo is a nod to

838
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: the hardcore Mortal Kombat gamers out there when the movie

839
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: came out, Mortal Kombat two had been out for a while.

840
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 2: In that game, for Johnny Cage's friendship move, friendships were

841
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 2: an alternative to hitting your fatality, where something happy happens,

842
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: like I think, like Sheng Sung makes a rainbow appear

843
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 2: between his poems.

844
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 3: You give your opponent a teddy bear.

845
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sort of thing. He signs a photo for

846
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 2: his enemy in the movie. By itself, it doesn't make

847
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 2: utter sense, but I guess they wanted to throw something

848
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: fun into the mix. As for bad DVD menus, there

849
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 2: are two DVD menus that I remember cursing at. One

850
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 2: of them was Memento and the other one was the

851
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five Transformers animated movie. The DVD menu for

852
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 2: Memento was designed like the Doctor's Notes. You had to

853
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: search for the playtab amongst post its and illegible doctor's

854
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 2: handwriting and Transformers. The movie had you going back and

855
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 2: forth in the menu trying to find the special features.

856
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 3: Did this come up because we were talking about the

857
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 3: menu on the Free Jack DVD that was like a

858
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: classic nineteen ninety nine style DVD menu that had pages

859
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 3: like visit our website and it would just show you

860
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 3: a URL.

861
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, they don't make DVDs, and they

862
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 2: don't make special editions quite like they did with some

863
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 2: of those early DVD special editions, Like I had the

864
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: one for Big Trouble in Little China, and it just

865
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 2: had so many pages of extras. It had like little

866
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: hidden Easter eggs.

867
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 3: It was a whole experience essentially games in the DVD menus.

868
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I missed that. I mean there's still,

869
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 2: as we often just go in Weird House, there's some

870
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 2: excellent special editions coming out these days and still coming out,

871
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 2: and they're reusing a lot of that older uh, that

872
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 2: older content. For instance, there's like a new revamped Blu

873
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 2: ray of Chronicles of Ridding coming out that looks really good.

874
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: But anyway, that's all beside the point.

875
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel at least like the new ones that

876
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 3: are putting a lot of stuff in there. It's it's

877
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 3: pretty logically organized and it's easy to get to what

878
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 3: you want, instead of these older DVDs where it was

879
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 3: like the the navigation functionality on its own was like

880
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 3: a game, you know.

881
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, Yeah, they've gotten so much better about just

882
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 2: the accessibility the presentation, especially with like these little like

883
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 2: the little menu that will pop up at the bottom

884
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 2: you can bring up while you're watching the film. Yeah,

885
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: these older DVDs were a lot clunkier, and yeah, sometimes

886
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 2: the menus were just clearly not designed with the viewer

887
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 2: experience in mind. Anyway, CB continues here speaking of the

888
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 2: DVDs and an affinity for Dungeons and Dragons. The Collector's

889
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: Edition for the Dungeons and Dragons animated show was great.

890
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 2: Not only was it loaded with special features, but it

891
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 2: came with a mini adventure supplement, four point five edition

892
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: character sheets for all the characters, and it all came

893
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 2: in a nice first edition red box. Before I go,

894
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 2: I want you to do a weird house cartoon series,

895
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 2: or at least deep dive on the series. The cartoon

896
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: series is called Liberty's Kids. It's by Diic Productions, which

897
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 2: should say a lot, but also adds to the mystery

898
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: of getting the voice actors the show is set during

899
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,839
Speaker 2: the Revolutionary War and follows two kids as they help

900
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: out Ben Franklin with missions and his paper. Now. Ben

901
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 2: Franklin's voice is done by Walter Cronkite, Jefferson is voiced

902
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 2: by Dustin Hoffman, and one of the generals is supplied

903
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 2: by Arnold himself. I want to know WTF anyway, I've

904
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 2: written a lot have fun cep what.

905
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 3: I did not know anything about Liberty's Kids. I did

906
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 3: not remember this at all, so I had to look

907
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 3: it up. It looks like it ran on PBS from

908
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 3: about two thousand and two to two thousand and three.

909
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 3: The animation style looks like a combination of Captain Planet

910
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 3: and The Magic School Bus if you can picture that.

911
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 3: But the voice cast is unbelievable for something I had

912
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 3: never heard of. So yeah, it's got cronkeyed is Ben Franklin,

913
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 3: Sylvester Stallone as Paul Revere, Ben Stiller as Thomas Jefferson.

914
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 3: The wiki says that I know in the email, CB

915
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 3: says that Dustin Hoffman was Jefferson, but the wikie says

916
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 3: Hoffman is Benedict Arnold, not Jefferson, and Ben Stiller is Jefferson.

917
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 3: Billy Crystal as John Adams by the way, obnoxious and unliked,

918
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 3: as they say, and At Benning as Abigail Adams, Michael

919
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 3: Douglas as Patrick Henry, and then Arnold Schwarzenegger as Baron

920
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 3: von Steuben, who was a Prussian officer who was crucial

921
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: in bringing like training an organization to the what he

922
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 3: thought was poorly organized and and untrained Continental Army. Also,

923
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 3: it had Whoopy Goldberg as Deborah Sampson, who famously disguised

924
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 3: herself as a man so she could fight in the

925
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 3: Continental Army. Had Liam Neeson bringing a particular set of

926
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 3: skills to the portrayal of John Paul Jones. And it

927
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 3: had Michael Yorke as Admiral Howe stacked cast. Can't believe

928
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 3: I've never heard of this.

929
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 2: I'll also throw in that this also features the voice

930
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: the vocal talents of Jason Connery. So there you go,

931
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 2: Sean Connery's son.

932
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 3: Wait, wait, does he play a spy? Did he play Hale?

933
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 2: I'm pulling it up on IMDb here and I'm not

934
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,439
Speaker 2: seeing the character name reference, but maybe that is the case.

935
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: It looks like he was in Let's see five different

936
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: episodes that.

937
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 3: Would be a hilarious nod. I would cast him as

938
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 3: a spy because Sean Connery's do we say Sean Connery's brother,

939
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 3: If we did, that was his son, his son's I'm sorry,

940
00:50:53,640 --> 00:51:01,399
Speaker 3: Neil Connery. This is Jason, not Operation Kid Brother, Operation Son. Yes, okay, yeah, yeah,

941
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 3: this one is new to me. I had never heard

942
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 3: of this. I love when you find out about these

943
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 3: like I guess more often it's movies that I like.

944
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 3: How is it this star studded and I've never heard

945
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 3: of it before? But this is somehow even funnier because

946
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 3: it's a cartoon kids show about the Revolutionary War. Yeah, okay.

947
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 3: One last message this comes. It's also about Weird House.

948
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 3: Comes from our listener Milan. Subject line Weird House, free

949
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 3: Jack ending. Milan says, Hi, guys, longtime listener, first time emailer.

950
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 3: If this has been addressed in listener mail, just take

951
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 3: this as a fan who is desperate to have something

952
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 3: to message you about. I just had a small note

953
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 3: on your coverage of free Jack, specifically the ending. This

954
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 3: one is a real guilty pleasure since childhood, and I

955
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 3: think the ending made more sense than you gave it.

956
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 3: Credit for Mick Jagger's character let's furlong get away with

957
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 3: not knowing the identification number, perhaps part out of respect,

958
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 3: but mostly because if the transfer did not complete, he

959
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 3: would not get paid. Not to mention the black mark

960
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 3: and his reputation. Most of the movie is pretty ridiculous,

961
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 3: but it makes sense why Mick Jagger doesn't really care

962
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 3: who's in that body. Love what you guys do, So

963
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 3: thanks again for doing it, Milan. Now, Milan, I wanted

964
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 3: to feature this email for a couple of reasons. Number one,

965
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 3: I wanted to honor your effort in explaining this ending

966
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 3: that apparently went over our heads. But also I thought

967
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 3: it was funny because this episode was so long ago,

968
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 3: I have no idea what you're talking about.

969
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a number of sensations and moments and

970
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 2: lines that stick with one from free Jack, but I

971
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 2: do vaguely remember this standoff of the end.

972
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, but anyway, I thought it was it was only

973
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 3: fair to let you make your case, So thank you, Milan.

974
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 2: All right, Well, on that note, we're gonna go ahead

975
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: and send Carney back into the depths. We're going to

976
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 2: close up the mail bag, but we'll be back probably

977
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 2: sometime next month, sometime in October. We'll probably be back

978
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: with another listener mail episode, so keep it coming, and

979
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: certainly as we start rolling out our Halloween episodes, write

980
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 2: in with all of your thoughts, your comments, your observations,

981
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: and so forth. We'd love to hear from you.

982
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

983
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

984
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

985
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

986
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

987
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

988
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

989
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

990
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.