1
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,120
Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

2
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:13,840
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Brigittat and this is

3
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,280
Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. I'm here with

4
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 1: my producer Mike.

5
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 2: Hello bridget Hey.

6
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 1: Mike, thanks for being here. And here's what you may

7
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,400
Speaker 1: have missed this week on the Internet. Let's start with

8
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 1: a little bit of news from my hometown, Washington, DC,

9
00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,680
Speaker 1: where Lieutenant Shane Leman, a lieutenant for the Metropolitan Police

10
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,239
Speaker 1: Department's Intelligence Branch, was just indicted after he used his

11
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:41,240
Speaker 1: position within law enforcement to share confidential information with Enrique Tario.

12
00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 1: You might know that name because Enrique is a former

13
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,520
Speaker 1: leader of the Proud Boys, the far right and extremist group.

14
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,800
Speaker 1: Enrique was just recently found guilty of seditious conspiracy in

15
00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,160
Speaker 1: connection with the January sixth capital attack. But the federal

16
00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,280
Speaker 1: indictment for the police lieutenant who helped Enrique claim the

17
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,280
Speaker 1: men were in regular contact for July twenty nineteen to

18
00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,600
Speaker 1: at least January twenty twenty one, using encrypted messaging apps

19
00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,800
Speaker 1: like Telegram. So what were these guys discussing. Well, as

20
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,760
Speaker 1: you might have guessed, the WYHO weren't just discussing the

21
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,560
Speaker 1: vander Pump Rules reunion.

22
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,600
Speaker 2: Oh man, if only they were you know, I know

23
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 2: they weren't, but I just like to imagine these guys

24
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:23,119
Speaker 2: just sitting around watching watching some Bravo and getting into it.

25
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably have big opinions about La La and the

26
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,880
Speaker 1: whole gang. Well, the men actually discussed Proud Boy activities

27
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,640
Speaker 1: in the DC area, and this lieutenant actually ended up

28
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,199
Speaker 1: giving Tario a heads up about investigations into the Proud Boys.

29
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,800
Speaker 1: So a few days before January six, Enrique Tario was

30
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 1: in Washington, DC, and while he was here in DC,

31
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,840
Speaker 1: he stole a Black Lives Matter banner from the Ashbury

32
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,440
Speaker 1: United Methodist Church, which is a historic black church here

33
00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,640
Speaker 1: in DC. He then set it on fire with lighter fluid. Now,

34
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: because Enrique is a brilliant criminal mastermind, he posted a

35
00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 1: picture of himself holding a lighter onto his parlor account

36
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,840
Speaker 1: and admitted days later in an interview with The Washington

37
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 1: Post that he had joined in burning of this flag.

38
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Lamond gave Tario a heads up that he was

39
00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 1: about to be arrested for charges from this.

40
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:12,840
Speaker 3: Burning of the flag.

41
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,720
Speaker 1: And I have to say, like this story has been

42
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 1: getting a lot of play here in DC. I'm honestly

43
00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,079
Speaker 1: not surprised because this kind of confirms what we've already known.

44
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,880
Speaker 1: The FBI has been warning that extremist hate groups are

45
00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,239
Speaker 1: active within law enforcement for at least the last ten years.

46
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,000
Speaker 1: A two thousand and six intelligence report from the FBI

47
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,040
Speaker 1: shows that officials have had concerns about the infiltration of

48
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 1: police departments for years, but kind of like just didn't

49
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,080
Speaker 1: give the public a warning about this. Reports show that

50
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,160
Speaker 1: in some cases, these people wanted to join the military

51
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,120
Speaker 1: or law enforcement specifically because they thought it might give

52
00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,640
Speaker 1: them an opportunity to be violent toward people of color,

53
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,600
Speaker 1: or that they planned to join the military or police

54
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 1: to learn how to wage war against people of color,

55
00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 1: according to ABC News, between twenty sixteen and twenty twenty,

56
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,880
Speaker 1: agents and analysts with the FBI's division in San Antonio

57
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,360
Speaker 1: concluded that white supremacists and other right wing extremists would

58
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,360
Speaker 1: be quote very likely to seek affiliation with military and

59
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,960
Speaker 1: law enforcement entities in the furtherance of their ideologies, according

60
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,960
Speaker 1: to a confidential intelligence assessment issued last month.

61
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 3: And I also think.

62
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,280
Speaker 1: That there's you know, we have this information from the FBI,

63
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,359
Speaker 1: but I think colloquially like, anybody with eyes who is

64
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,160
Speaker 1: paying attention has probably always seen this kind of cozy

65
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,320
Speaker 1: relationship between law enforcement and extremist groups. When you look

66
00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,720
Speaker 1: at reports of how police treated extremist groups in places

67
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,600
Speaker 1: like Kenosha. I think is a good example after Kyle

68
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,839
Speaker 1: Rittenhouse traveled to Kenosha, Wisconsin and shot and killed two

69
00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,080
Speaker 1: men during a protest. Before the shooting, Rittenhouse is like

70
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 1: lined up holding a rifle as sensibly to quote protect

71
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,560
Speaker 1: he says local businesses. Police were shown on tape thanking

72
00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,640
Speaker 1: him and giving him water about fifteen minutes before he

73
00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,440
Speaker 1: shot and killed two people, And even after the shooting,

74
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,080
Speaker 1: even though he is leaving the scene of the shooting

75
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,560
Speaker 1: with a gun and there are protesters following him screaming

76
00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 1: at the police, like hey, this person just shot someone,

77
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,040
Speaker 1: the police just let him leave. When asked about this later,

78
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,800
Speaker 1: the police were like, oh, with a chaotic situation, you know,

79
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 1: who's to say what happened?

80
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 3: Like we would have given anybody water.

81
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,440
Speaker 1: This is not evidence of a cozy relationship, but it

82
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,680
Speaker 1: also aligns with reports that armed extremist groups were kind

83
00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,720
Speaker 1: of deputizing themselves to patrol neighborhoods. In twenty twenty and beyond,

84
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,080
Speaker 1: and that the police were just kind of okay with

85
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,120
Speaker 1: it and not you know, did not seem to think

86
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,159
Speaker 1: it was anything that was rose to the level of

87
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 1: something they should be concerned about. And I think this

88
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,800
Speaker 1: cozy relationship between extremist groups and police really came to

89
00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,520
Speaker 1: a head on January sixth at the Capitol where, according

90
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 1: to NPR, nearly thirty sworn police officers from a dozen

91
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,320
Speaker 1: different departments attended the rally on January sixth, and several

92
00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,080
Speaker 1: of them actually stormed the Capitol building with the insurrectionists.

93
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,120
Speaker 1: So you know, those off duty police officers were there

94
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,159
Speaker 1: to take part in the insurrection, and also you have

95
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 1: on duty police officers who were there on the scene,

96
00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, trying to contain the situation. I truly do

97
00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,680
Speaker 1: believe that some of these riders storming the Capitol seemed

98
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 1: surprised that the on duty police officers kind of protecting

99
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,520
Speaker 1: the capital were not on their side. I bet a

100
00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,880
Speaker 1: lot of these guys thought that these police officers were

101
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,039
Speaker 1: going to cheer them on as they entered the Capitol

102
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,719
Speaker 1: precisely because of this cozy relationship. And I think the

103
00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 1: biggest problem to me or the scariest thing is just

104
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,680
Speaker 1: how little scrutiny this has really gotten. It's clear, both

105
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,920
Speaker 1: from the intelligence community and from the actions of police

106
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,839
Speaker 1: that there is this cozy relationship between extremists and armed

107
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,880
Speaker 1: agents of the state who regularly interact with the public.

108
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,920
Speaker 3: So why is this not a bigger deal?

109
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is really disturbing but not surprising to learn

110
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,640
Speaker 2: that members of law enforcement were participating in the interrection.

111
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,640
Speaker 2: You Know, what is really surprising to me three years

112
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,920
Speaker 2: later is how Donald Trump and his allies had been

113
00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,120
Speaker 2: able to downplay the significance of the insurrection. You know,

114
00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,160
Speaker 2: back on January sixth and twenty twenty, it seemed like

115
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 2: such a huge deal. And it was a huge deal.

116
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 2: It was a brazen, violent attack and broad daylight not

117
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,560
Speaker 2: just on the Capitol, but on the peaceful transition of

118
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 2: power after an election, which is one of the most,

119
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,720
Speaker 2: if not the most fundamental American value, and they nearly

120
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:38,840
Speaker 2: ended that after over two hundred uninterrupted years. And I'm

121
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 2: just so The thing that I'm most shocked about is

122
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:47,240
Speaker 2: how successful they've been convincing large portions of the population

123
00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,679
Speaker 2: and the media that it was like, not a big deal,

124
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 2: just some concerned citizens having a little civic demonstration when

125
00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 2: in fact they were like insurrectionists trying to overthrow the government.

126
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:03,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

127
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,279
Speaker 1: I mean we were both in DC when that happened.

128
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,480
Speaker 1: I don't care who tries to convince me that it

129
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 1: wasn't a big deal. I will never forget that day.

130
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,200
Speaker 1: I will never forget it. It was the most eerie

131
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 1: day of my entire life, and I will never forget it.

132
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,000
Speaker 1: I watched Ashley Babit day a national television I was

133
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,160
Speaker 1: like watching I will never forget it.

134
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:23,600
Speaker 3: I was.

135
00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 1: I think it was the first time I ever saw

136
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,640
Speaker 1: dead like someone get killed on TV. I knew as

137
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 1: soon as it happened that she was dead.

138
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:30,720
Speaker 3: It was.

139
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,440
Speaker 1: It was such a crazy day. I don't care how

140
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 1: many times these Republicans try to minimize it.

141
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 3: It was a big deal. I will never forget it.

142
00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:46,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, seriously. And it's such a complicated story because at

143
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,680
Speaker 2: the same time that these there were these police officers

144
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,240
Speaker 2: marching with the insurrectionists and storming the capitol, there were

145
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 2: other police officers. They're risking their lives, you know, some

146
00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 2: of them sacrifice their lives trying to protect it. And

147
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 2: you know, we're recording this on Friday evening of Memorial

148
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 2: Day weekend, and so you know, it's hard not to

149
00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,000
Speaker 2: think about those officers who lost their lives on that day.

150
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,640
Speaker 2: And if you know, if it weren't for them, Donald

151
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,040
Speaker 2: Trump would probably be president right now, and he would

152
00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,120
Speaker 2: probably stay president for the rest of his life. You know,

153
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,520
Speaker 2: democracy in America would be over. They literally laid down

154
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,640
Speaker 2: their lives to save the republic. You know, it's not hyperbole,

155
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 2: and so I'm trying to keep that in mind as

156
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,320
Speaker 2: I think through what to make of this story. You know,

157
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:38,280
Speaker 2: whenever there's any story about police misconduct, whatever officials are

158
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,880
Speaker 2: in charge or usually pretty quick to point to like

159
00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,440
Speaker 2: a bad apples theory that everything is fine, there's just

160
00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,200
Speaker 2: a couple of bad apples, and you know, we know

161
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,120
Speaker 2: that that's bullshit. There's systemic problems and a culture of

162
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:55,479
Speaker 2: silence that enable police abuse and state sponsored oppression to

163
00:08:55,520 --> 00:09:00,840
Speaker 2: flourish in the shadows. But I think this, yes, and

164
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,320
Speaker 2: that's you know, that's bullshit. Bad apples is a bullshit theory.

165
00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:08,880
Speaker 2: But this story and the complications is a good reminder

166
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:14,320
Speaker 2: that you know, some apples really truly are like solidly rotten,

167
00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:19,599
Speaker 2: like really bad. And you know those dozen police departments

168
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,479
Speaker 2: that had a couple of people show up and participate

169
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,920
Speaker 2: in the insurrection and try to overthrow the government. I

170
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,839
Speaker 2: hope they're taking a good hard look at their personnel

171
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:30,960
Speaker 2: and getting them the hell out of there.

172
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:31,680
Speaker 3: Oh.

173
00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I had to shorten this research for the

174
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,160
Speaker 1: sake of we're doing a thirty minute podcast. But that's

175
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,959
Speaker 1: not even the half of it. Like, even beyond the

176
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,840
Speaker 1: officers who were there that day, there was another officer

177
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,440
Speaker 1: I think based in Maryland who was put on probation

178
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,880
Speaker 1: recently and kicked off the force because on Facebook after

179
00:09:54,880 --> 00:10:00,360
Speaker 1: the insurrection, a like a YouTuber a fishing YouTube that

180
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,800
Speaker 1: he liked posted on YouTube about having stormed the capitol,

181
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,560
Speaker 1: and he sent him a private message and he was like, listen,

182
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,160
Speaker 1: I agree with your opinions, but they're investigating this and

183
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,960
Speaker 1: they're arresting these guys. Take this down, and that police

184
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,600
Speaker 1: officer was himself charged with that, and so like, how

185
00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,160
Speaker 1: many how Like I'm giving you the short version of

186
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,920
Speaker 1: how many police officers were in the mix on January six,

187
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,640
Speaker 1: but how many physically didn't go but sympathized with these people,

188
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 1: Like there has to be the fact that I think

189
00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,120
Speaker 1: that so many of the rioters thought that they were

190
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,480
Speaker 1: on the same side as the police and probably were like, wait,

191
00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 1: why are you trying to stop me? Aren't we on

192
00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,160
Speaker 1: the same team. I think that that isn't a coincidence.

193
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 1: I think that it is pretty clear that there is

194
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 1: some sort of a cozy relationship between extremist groups and

195
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,280
Speaker 1: law enforcement. And the more that we downplay it, the

196
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,600
Speaker 1: more that we say it's just bad apples, the less

197
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,000
Speaker 1: safe that we are going to be. Like, this is

198
00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,440
Speaker 1: a public safety issue. I think the public has a

199
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 1: right to know if the armed guards of the state

200
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,400
Speaker 1: who are going to be summoned oftentimes in that you

201
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:09,800
Speaker 1: have involuntary interactions with, are also in a hate group

202
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:11,840
Speaker 1: or a Nazi group or a white supremacist group.

203
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:19,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not an okay situation at all. Damn.

204
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,640
Speaker 3: So, speaking of bad apples, let's talk about Google.

205
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 1: Oh wait, are you growing?

206
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,520
Speaker 3: Because that was a good transition or you thought it

207
00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 3: was cheesy.

208
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,800
Speaker 2: It was a little bit of both. You know, I

209
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:33,840
Speaker 2: appreciate the effort.

210
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,080
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm going to take that a for effort,

211
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,560
Speaker 3: So I'm taking the A. I'm calling it an A.

212
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,720
Speaker 2: It's an a fair enough, it's your show so S.

213
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:44,560
Speaker 3: Thank you.

214
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,520
Speaker 1: That's right, so s folks might know. Almost a year

215
00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,360
Speaker 1: after the Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade. Soon thereafter,

216
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,400
Speaker 1: Google announced that it would proactively delete its trove of

217
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,319
Speaker 1: location data when people visited what they called quote particularly

218
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,160
Speaker 1: personal places. Now these include things like hospitals, shelters, and

219
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,760
Speaker 1: of course, abortion clinics. Their statement said, today we're announcing

220
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,240
Speaker 1: that if our systems identify that someone has visited one

221
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,959
Speaker 1: of these places, we will delete these entries from location

222
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,240
Speaker 1: history soon after they visit. This change will take effect

223
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,760
Speaker 1: in the coming weeks. Well, guess what they haven't done that.

224
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,679
Speaker 1: The digital rights group accountable Tech put out a report

225
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,160
Speaker 1: where they tested Google's updated policies by visiting abortion clinics

226
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,400
Speaker 1: in different states with newly purchased Android phones. Based on

227
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,000
Speaker 1: their experimentations and research, accountable Tech found that Google is

228
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,760
Speaker 1: still retaining location search queries by default and location history

229
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 1: for users who have it turned on, including information about

230
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,040
Speaker 1: reproductive care facilities, despite their public promise to begin deleting it.

231
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Disappointing, not surprising Google, They keep showing us who

232
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:49,240
Speaker 2: they are.

233
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 1: According to accountable Tech, by retaining both location search query

234
00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,920
Speaker 1: and location history data Google jeopardizes the health, safety, and

235
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,880
Speaker 1: legal status of their users who visit reproductive care facilities

236
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 1: in states where abortion criminalized. If prosecutors in a state

237
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,120
Speaker 1: with a restrictive abortion law receive a tip about someone's

238
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,880
Speaker 1: seeking an abortion, a subpoena would likely force Google to

239
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,120
Speaker 1: hand over sensitive data. So we have a little bit

240
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 1: of news and movement on this issue. Nearly a dozen

241
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 1: Senate Democrats wrote to Google this week with questions about

242
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,080
Speaker 1: how it deletes users' location history when they have visited

243
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,560
Speaker 1: sensitive places like abortion clinics, expressing concerns that the company

244
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,640
Speaker 1: may not have been consistently deleting the data as promised.

245
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,880
Speaker 1: The letter came from Senators Amy Klobuchar, Elizabeth Warren, and

246
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,680
Speaker 1: Mazie Heerino, seeking answers from Google about the types of

247
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,440
Speaker 1: location that Google considers to be sensitive and for just

248
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,679
Speaker 1: how long it will take for the company to automatically

249
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:36,760
Speaker 1: delete visit history.

250
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:37,960
Speaker 3: That's not all.

251
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,720
Speaker 1: A few days ago, an anonymous complainant filed a lawsuit

252
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,040
Speaker 1: against Google, claiming that it unlawfully collects health data, including

253
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,000
Speaker 1: abortion searches, on third party websites that use Google tech.

254
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,840
Speaker 1: Jane Doe, whose legal representation is looking to get the

255
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,880
Speaker 1: case certified as a class action. Claims that her private

256
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,600
Speaker 1: information was intercepted by Google when she used scheduling pages

257
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,240
Speaker 1: on Planned Parenthood's website in twenty eighteen to search for

258
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,840
Speaker 1: an abortion provide. So something that I have to ask, like,

259
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,640
Speaker 1: is it legal for Google to say one thing about

260
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,640
Speaker 1: their privacy policy and then fully do another. Maybe you know,

261
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,640
Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer, I'm not an expert in this,

262
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,880
Speaker 1: but I fully do not understand how Google misleading the

263
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 1: public about their data privacy practices is legal under the

264
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,680
Speaker 1: Federal Trade Commission. But I'm no expert on this. What

265
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,640
Speaker 1: I can tell you is that whether or not it's legal,

266
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,800
Speaker 1: it is certainly unethical and it is certainly dangerous. We

267
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,040
Speaker 1: all deserve privacy and it should not be up to

268
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,600
Speaker 1: the whims of the tech billionaires, who are mostly men

269
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,920
Speaker 1: who run Google, to decide whether or not we get

270
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 1: it totally.

271
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 2: You know, to disclose, I have an Android phone and

272
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,680
Speaker 2: I really need to get off of it because Google

273
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 2: just has such a long track record of not respecting privacy.

274
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, there are some documents that were made

275
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,480
Speaker 2: public from a lawsuit against Google that have been brought

276
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,120
Speaker 2: by Arizona's Attorney General that ultimately Google ended up settling

277
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 2: for eighty five million dollars. Some internal documents showed that

278
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 2: Google was effectively ignoring users' privacy settings, and the privacy

279
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:11,960
Speaker 2: controls were so obtuse and unnavigable that even Google's own

280
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 2: engineers weren't able to figure out how to use them.

281
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,600
Speaker 2: And they were, you know, these emails were from the

282
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,120
Speaker 2: Google engineers talking with each other trying to make sense

283
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 2: of like, how did these privacy controls work? And so

284
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,720
Speaker 2: like if they can't figure out how they work, how

285
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 2: is an end user supposed to have any hope of

286
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,920
Speaker 2: doing it? And not only did they were they confusing,

287
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 2: but they they seemed simple. But then they didn't actually

288
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 2: do what the users could reasonably expect them to do

289
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 2: in terms of opting out of different privacy settings, you know,

290
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,600
Speaker 2: and that doesn't happen by accident. It was a choice

291
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,360
Speaker 2: that Google made to design their privacy settings that way,

292
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 2: even if they didn't intentionally set out to deceive their users,

293
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,400
Speaker 2: which is debatable, but even giving them the benefit of

294
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 2: the doubt, they still clearly demonstrated a lack of respect

295
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,200
Speaker 2: for privacy and it's not surprising, right, They're an advertising

296
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 2: kind of company. They sell ads, that's their top priority,

297
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 2: and they collect data to allow them to sell more

298
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,080
Speaker 2: ads to more people. And so of course they're not

299
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,480
Speaker 2: going to allow a little thing like privacy to get

300
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 2: in the way of that. Lack of concern for privacy

301
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 2: is a value of theirs. And so just like the

302
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,200
Speaker 2: way those user settings and privacy controls were an illusion

303
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,120
Speaker 2: that did not actually stop people's private data from being

304
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,040
Speaker 2: sent to Google, now we learn that there are public

305
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,240
Speaker 2: statements about protecting abortion data were fabrications. And again I

306
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,920
Speaker 2: don't know if they did that there's an intentional lie

307
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 2: or just like a cinem omission where they just couldn't

308
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:49,600
Speaker 2: be bothered to do it. But you've raised a great

309
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,040
Speaker 2: point that you know, people, hey, you should have a

310
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 2: right to privacy. It just in general period B. They

311
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 2: should certainly have a right to privacy for health information

312
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,880
Speaker 2: and medical information. And then see, at the very least

313
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,160
Speaker 2: people should be able to expect that when Google says

314
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,679
Speaker 2: they're going to do something, that they will actually do

315
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 2: it instead of doing nothing, which seems to be what

316
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 2: they've done.

317
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that you really put it well,

318
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,960
Speaker 1: I don't think that you should have to be a

319
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 1: privacy expert or a lawyer or somebody who is really

320
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:28,120
Speaker 1: knowledgeable about you know, tech pr speak versus what is

321
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,719
Speaker 1: happening in reality to be able to make decisions for

322
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 1: your health and for your life. And I think that

323
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 1: Google has created a situation where, yeah, it's like people

324
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to be legal experts to just understand what

325
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,840
Speaker 1: is happening with their data when they are accessing information

326
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,160
Speaker 1: that could wind them in prison, right, Like, we should

327
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:50,639
Speaker 1: be able to expect more from Google.

328
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 3: We deserve privacy, particularly.

329
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,520
Speaker 1: When it comes to something as sensitive as our health

330
00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,239
Speaker 1: information in this climate where abortion is criminalized, and you know,

331
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: being a person who is seeking an abortion right now

332
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 1: is so scary, and just being someone who is pregnant

333
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: is scary enough.

334
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 3: So on Layered on.

335
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 1: Top of that the expectation that like, oh, well, you

336
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 1: have to be a data privacy expert or a lawyer

337
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,680
Speaker 1: to understand what digital trail you might be leaving when

338
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 1: you try to access information to make decisions about your health,

339
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,719
Speaker 1: that the burden is too high for regular people, and

340
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,879
Speaker 1: adding the fact of like whether it's a vindictive X

341
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,040
Speaker 1: lover or a nosy neighbor or a vigilante that you

342
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,520
Speaker 1: don't even know, who can turn you in because they

343
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,959
Speaker 1: believe that you have tried to access information about abortion.

344
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,439
Speaker 1: That digital footprint that Google has can be used to

345
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: criminalize you. And so Google right now is like doing

346
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,800
Speaker 1: something that I think is not just an ethical potentially

347
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 1: a legal question mark, but deeply deeply dangerous in a

348
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,440
Speaker 1: threat to public safety.

349
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, the stakes are super high for people. And you know,

350
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,879
Speaker 2: this is another great example of why we need regulation

351
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,639
Speaker 2: to protect privacy in this country. Maybe that looks like

352
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 2: what they have in Europe. Maybe it looks like what

353
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 2: California is doing. I don't know exactly what that regulation

354
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 2: looks like, but it's clear that we can't trust tech

355
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,920
Speaker 2: companies to do the right thing on their own. Maybe

356
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 2: some of them might every now and then that's great,

357
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,120
Speaker 2: but we can't rely on that. Time and again they

358
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,160
Speaker 2: demonstrate that they just can't be trusted to regulate themselves.

359
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,040
Speaker 2: It's a pattern. We need some regulation to rein in

360
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 2: the abuses of tech companies and social media platforms.

361
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick brain at our back.

362
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 1: Speaking of people who cannot be trusted, we have to

363
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 1: talk about Ronda Santis. Do we it's a big announcement

364
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,160
Speaker 1: on Twitter. I mean, I don't want to. I want

365
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 1: to keep this brief because I really don't want to

366
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 1: talk about it. So let's just get it out of

367
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,160
Speaker 1: the way. Are you are you game? Can you got

368
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 1: it in you?

369
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:12,920
Speaker 3: Mike?

370
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 2: I mean like yeah, yeah, let's let's just try to

371
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 2: do it quickly.

372
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,360
Speaker 3: Get in, get out, yeah, get in, get out?

373
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 4: All right.

374
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,159
Speaker 1: Florida Governor Ronda Santis announced that he's running for president,

375
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,919
Speaker 1: and he did it via a Twitter spaces because it

376
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 1: is an initiative helmed by Elon Musk. The entire thing

377
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,960
Speaker 1: was plagued with problems, screw ups, and glitches. Of course,

378
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 1: of course, the first twenty minutes was just people talking

379
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: over each other and audio issues. David Sax, who is

380
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 1: a venture capitalist who is also the host of the

381
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 1: All In podcast, which side note, it's definitely a more

382
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,360
Speaker 1: popular tech podcast than ours by like a million percent.

383
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 1: So I don't want people to think this is like

384
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,880
Speaker 1: sour grapes, but they're definitely a more popular tech They're

385
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 1: like number one every day.

386
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:56,399
Speaker 3: You know.

387
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,679
Speaker 2: That's nice for them, you know, I yeah to respect that,

388
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 2: but we're coming for you.

389
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 1: Honestly, if Ronda Santis has had any like gump shin

390
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,239
Speaker 1: or courage, he would have had that shit moderated by

391
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: Kara Swisher and he would have like actually had it

392
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 1: be not just like a very cozy billionaire venture tech

393
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: capitalist talking with Elon Musk in the room on a

394
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,640
Speaker 1: Twitter spaces that is like me being like, I can't

395
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 1: even think of a comparable thing. That is like me

396
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 1: be having someone moderate a Twitter spaces and the moderator

397
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: is I can't even there's not even there's not even

398
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: something comparable. I can't even think of anything.

399
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's like like three people that are all

400
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 2: the same in a room talking about how great they

401
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 2: all are.

402
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: My God, I was gonna say it would be like

403
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 1: if my own mother moderated a Twitter spaces with me.

404
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: But I believe my mother would be a tougher interviewer

405
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: than David Sax was at this Twitter spaces rollout. So

406
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, we don't have to get get too into it.

407
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 1: But one thing I do want to say is that

408
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,199
Speaker 1: so David Zack's venture capitalist host of the All In podcast,

409
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 1: was the moderator. What's annoying is how quickly they immediately

410
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: went into self aggrandizement mode and lying about it. David

411
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: Zach said that it was quote by far, the biggest

412
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: room ever held on social media. DeSantis said in a

413
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: podcast interview that he thought later in the day that

414
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,640
Speaker 1: quote probably over ten million people watched the event. By

415
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: the way, you don't watch a Twitter space, you listen

416
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 1: to it. That's neither herr.

417
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,919
Speaker 2: There is he like performing as though he were on

418
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 2: camera the whole time?

419
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 1: Oh good question, Oh my god. You know his team

420
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:36,919
Speaker 1: was probably like, just let him Vigi's on camera, Like,

421
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: there's no camera in here. But if this is what

422
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: he needs, fine, So let's look at the real numbers

423
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: of the event. It had a high listenership of about

424
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand concurrent listeners, of whom all at the

425
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: same time tuned into DeSantis make his announcement. As of Thursday,

426
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: about three point four million people listen to the space

427
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: or recording to it, according to Twitter's numbers. I really

428
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: don't have a lot to say about this event. It

429
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: sounds like it was a shit show.

430
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 3: I don't.

431
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: Those are not big numbers either, Like, no, three hundred

432
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: thousand concurrent listeners. There are like Twitch streamers who get

433
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 2: that when they I don't know, like wake up in

434
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: the morning, right like just turn and turn on their accounts.

435
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 2: That's that is definitely not What did he say that

436
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 2: the biggest room ever held on social media? Whatever that means,

437
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: that's just a lie.

438
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: He doesn't He just made like that's not it's it's

439
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 1: so it's just not remotely true. It's not true that

440
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: they that like that's a huge amount. It's certainly not

441
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: true that it's the biggest room ever held on social media.

442
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 3: What a bullshit claim.

443
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: I can't believe that he was able to just pull

444
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: that out of the air and that nobody was like

445
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: h question like follow up.

446
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 2: But like what like you said, like who's going to

447
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 2: call him on it? Elon Musk, Ronda Sandy.

448
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 3: That's the thing.

449
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: It's like the fact that they are that they that

450
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: this announcement was surrounded by such like sicophants and fanboys.

451
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: It's like a like, obviously there's no they have They

452
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: have purposely like bubble wrapped themselves from anybody who would

453
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: even just bring up reality, like not even like tough questions,

454
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: just like okay, well in reality there were three hundred

455
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: thousand people on you'd have said it was the biggest

456
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: space of all time, So what is the truth? You know, like,

457
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: obviously these are not people who were interested in any

458
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: kind of reality. And again I don't really have a

459
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: ton to say about this. We were talking, uh when

460
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 1: this event was happening, and you heard me like unleash

461
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: the most like gottural deep down heavy, so like the

462
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: heaviest of heavy size, and you looked over and you

463
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: were like, what's wrong, thinking that like something bad had happened,

464
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: And it just became clear to both of us that

465
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: I am going to need to sort something out as

466
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: we get deeper into election season to not completely like

467
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 1: lose my mind. Like I like, I don't know why

468
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: the claim about it being the biggest space ever got

469
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: to me. I'm going, but it was clear to me

470
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: that like I'm going to be hearing stuff like this

471
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: for the next few months, and I need to figure

472
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: something out so that I'm not like for my own

473
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: well being.

474
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you and me both. I mean, it's it's funny.

475
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: I'm always so curious the things that like really get

476
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 2: under your skin and don't like because it's such a stupid, little,

477
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: like insignificant thing, But I get it. I love to

478
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 2: get hung up on stupid, little, insignificant things, and you're right,

479
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: it's just gonna get worse as we go into this election.

480
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: That's just like the the tip of the stupid iceberg.

481
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 2: You know, there's so much more stupid under the sea

482
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: coming at the boat that is America.

483
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know me so well from us

484
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 1: working on the show together that I would be curious

485
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: maybe for maybe for some Patreon content.

486
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 3: We've got to give a list of the.

487
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: Weird things that you might not think and under bridget skin,

488
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: but really get under bridget skin, because that would be

489
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: curious to know your thoughts on that.

490
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: The petty grievance rundown. Uh, we'd have to break it

491
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: up for a couple episodes.

492
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Actually forget. I don't want to hear this.

493
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: This is not content that I want that I want

494
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: out there, even behind a paywall. Okay, So I do

495
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: have one thing to say about the rollout is that

496
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: I think it reveals that the people who are like

497
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: extremely online it is people like Ronda Santis. I think

498
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: for a long time that the left, progressives, radicals whatever

499
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: have been accused of being too online, extremely online, caring

500
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: too much about what's happening on Twitter, and like social media,

501
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: cloud is.

502
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 3: Currency, YadA, YadA, YadA. I hope that this.

503
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: Official presidential announcement makes it super abundantly clear that it

504
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 1: is right wing extremists who are the ones who are

505
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: too online. They are the ones who have been able

506
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: to weaponize the Internet to accommodate their grievances while calling

507
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: the rest about snowflakes. It is clear who the snowflakes are.

508
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: It is them.

509
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: I hope that this announcement makes very clear who is

510
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: the one who is too obsessed with what's happening on Twitter,

511
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: because it's Ronda Santis, not us.

512
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 2: It's such a good observation. You're so right. And not

513
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 2: only are they're the ones who are too online, but

514
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: it's clear what their goal of their ideal vision of

515
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 2: what an ideal online space is, which is a super

516
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 2: safe space for them, free from trigger warnings of like

517
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: truth or accountability, where they can just go off about

518
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: like how they are having the biggest, greatest Twitter space

519
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 2: ever that everyone is watching. It's such a good observation. Yeah,

520
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 2: they they've finally made it, you know, they've finally made

521
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: Twitter their own by purging everyone else so that they

522
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: can just repeat their own nonsense to each other.

523
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: It's so true, and speaking of nonsense, we have to

524
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: talk about this mess at target right now. So folks

525
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: have probably already seen this. If you haven't seen it,

526
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: you've definitely seen it. But it's a summarize right wing

527
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: extreme as social media personalities are leading a coordinated campaign

528
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: against brands for carrying pride merch. Far right podcaster Matt

529
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: Wall said this very explicitly, tweeting, the goal is to

530
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: make pride toxic for brands. If they decide to shove

531
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: this garbage in our face, they should know that they'll

532
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: pay a price. The goal is to make pride toxic

533
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: for brands. If they decide to shove this garbage in

534
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: our face, they should know that they'll pay a price.

535
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: It won't be worth whatever they think they'll gain. We

536
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: can't boycott every woke company. We don't need to pick

537
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: a few strategic targets make them pay dearly. That's enough

538
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: to make wokeness a lot less appealing to the corporate world.

539
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: Stop trying to bring down the whole line of dominoes

540
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: at once. Start with one and then the next. So

541
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: pretty clear like that, it's like clear that that is

542
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: a call for a harassment campaign against Target and Target staff,

543
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,959
Speaker 1: and I am sad to say that this is This

544
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: call to action has turned into right wing extremists going

545
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: into Target stores and recording themselves destroying merchandise and threatening employees.

546
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: Of course, because they're very online, they don't do this

547
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: without the camera running. They film themselves doing it because

548
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: they understand that it also needs to be content, and

549
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: it's incentivized because hey, maybe they can become a big

550
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: star for their video of them trashing a Target display

551
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: and threatening a teenager who works at.

552
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 3: Target is over the top enough.

553
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: So Target responded by removing some of their items from

554
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: the Pride collection, saying in a statement. Since introducing this

555
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: year's collection, we've experienced threats impacting our team member's sense

556
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: of safety and well being while at work. Given these

557
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: volatile circumstances, we are making adjustments to our plans and

558
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: including removing items that have been at the center of

559
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: the most significant confrontational behavior. So that fucking sucks. I

560
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: hated reading that statement. You know, I really hate defending

561
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: a corporation, and so I feel like I'm in a

562
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: weird position, and I also hate. One of the reasons

563
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: why I actually don't really like Pride that much is

564
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: precisely because of corporate ally ship that I just think

565
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: feels weird. That's an episode another day. But I really

566
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: kind of feel for Target here because I think they're

567
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: in kind of an impossible situation. If you listen to

568
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: our series Internet Hate Machine with cool Zone Media, then

569
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: you know how important it is that brands understand how

570
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: to deal with these kinds of coordinated harassment campaigns. The

571
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: people behind them, these right wing extremists. They are never

572
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: satisfied because it's not about one shirt, one swimsuit, the

573
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: collection or Pride. If Target pulls the collection, rather than

574
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: being satisfied, conceding any ground of these people will only

575
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: empower them. So's I don't think it's a good strategy

576
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: to pull their collection. But that said, I don't think

577
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: that staff at Target should have to put up with

578
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: being harassed or threatened to protect this Pride collection, especially

579
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: younger staff or gender nonconforming or tran staff. Right they

580
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: are not paid enough to put up with that. And

581
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: this was not a position that I had in the

582
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: beginning when I first saw that Target was taking out

583
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: this pride collection. I was like, how can they just like,

584
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: how can they just like cave to these extremists, Like,

585
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: that's not what you should do. I read this this

586
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: tweet thread from a queer trans Target employee. They write, Hi,

587
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: I am a queer trans Target employee, and I would

588
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: personally prefer the company be safe rather than sorry, because

589
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: I don't get paid enough to get threatened, assaulted, or

590
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: possibly gunned down at work over a swimsuit. Also, if

591
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: Target didn't pull the merch and these bigoted turf assholes

592
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: did do something unthinkable and employee employees were injured or killed,

593
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: y'all would say Target kept selling stuff because they valued

594
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: making money over the safety of their employees. It's a

595
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: no win situation, and so I agree with that. Like,

596
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel for employees like the tweeter

597
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: that I just read from, who are like, listen, I

598
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: don't make enough money to die defending Target's pride collection.

599
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 3: That I really really feel that.

600
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: But I also don't think it's right for Target to

601
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: just cow tow to bullies and extremists. You know, I've

602
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,479
Speaker 1: heard people argue that, oh, well, Target could just have

603
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: security guards, like, you know, you know, have armed guards

604
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: or security at their stores, but and they definitely could,

605
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: that's definitely an option. But I would argue that if

606
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: you need an armed guard or security just so Target

607
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: can stock some gay shirts without incident, then we have really.

608
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: Lost a lot.

609
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: And I don't think a world where you need armed

610
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: guards just to have a pride collection is a world

611
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: that I want to live in. And so I just

612
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: can't find a solution that is that is right.

613
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 3: Like I don't, I don't.

614
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: I want to be clear, like I don't think Target

615
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: should be cowtow and to bullies. I also don't think

616
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: that employees should have to feel unsafe. And it's worth

617
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: noting that when pharmacies were refusing to stock pill abortion pills,

618
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: one of the reasons they gave is that, like, oh,

619
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: we want to make sure that our pharmacists are safe.

620
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: So that's definitely a well worn thing that corporations say

621
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: when when they are defending their choice to not do

622
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: something or to do something. I'm not sure if that's

623
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: what's going on with Target.

624
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 3: I do.

625
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: Like my sense is I do actually think that the

626
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: videos that people have filmed are concerning enough that it

627
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: doesn't seem safe to me to be honest.

628
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: God, I hate this story. I hate everything about it,

629
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: you know, like I just yeah, it doesn't feel safe.

630
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: I don't want to live in a world where this

631
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: sort of thing happens either, But like here we are.

632
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: I guess this is what they want, you know, Like

633
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: how did we get here where it's okay for media

634
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 2: personalities with like shows on major networks to incite their

635
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: followers to go and terrorize workers and vandalize stores and

636
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: break stuff and do it on camera, which I would

637
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: assume is a crime to like go into a store

638
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: and break merchandise. You know, it's such a lose lose, yeah,

639
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 2: for target for allies, and yeah, like who you know,

640
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: consumerist pride merch is not my favorite. Don't like it,

641
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 2: but yeah, here we are like defending it.

642
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 5: You know.

643
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: It's it's such a lose lose for everyone except for

644
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: Matt Walsh and the media personalities getting eyeballs, and I

645
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: guess the biggots getting clicks for posting these videos to

646
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 2: their Facebook accounts.

647
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And like I like a lot of queers don't

648
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: love corporate allyship whatever, but I do. But like I'm

649
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: an adult who and I live in a super queer

650
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: friendly city Washington, d C. I might feel differently if

651
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 1: I'm a sixteen year old. I was a sixteen year old.

652
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: I think I right, like I might feel differently like

653
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: it is a little bit of a privilege for me

654
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: to say that I don't like targets LGBT like LGBTQ

655
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 1: Pride collection, because I have so much affirming stuff, affirming

656
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: stuff in my life. I have, Like I live in

657
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: a very I have a very gay affirming life, a

658
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: very queer affirming life.

659
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: It's true. Yeah, But and you know, I would never

660
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 2: say anything to that sixteen year old trans kid living

661
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 2: in rural wherever because they've they've you know, been through

662
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: and are going through so much more than I am.

663
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 2: But you know, that same sense of entitlement that that

664
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: we have from living in a queer friendly city like DC.

665
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 2: I do worry that there is some sense of entitlement

666
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: among younger queer people and allies and trans people today

667
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 2: that these sorts of like homophobic, turfy, bigoted attitudes are

668
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 2: fringe right and like the cow towing to these hateful people.

669
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: It is really worrisome because it's definitely going to embolden them.

670
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: They're definitely not gonna take their shitty attitudes and go

671
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 2: home into clear victory, right, They're gonna do something else.

672
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: And so it's such a tough spot. Like, yeah, I

673
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: totally sympathize with the workers and Target, and it does

674
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: sound like it was unsafe situation. And so I don't

675
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: blame the executives at Target for making that decision to

676
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 2: pull some of their merchandise to deal with this like

677
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: acute safety situation in their stores right now. But I

678
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 2: can't help but feel like that decision also makes us

679
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 2: all a little bit less safe in the longer term.

680
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 3: It definitely does.

681
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: I mean this is what when I was doing the

682
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: research for Internet Hate Machine, we saw this time and

683
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: time again that it just in bolded a small but

684
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: vocal sub section of people who had a lot of

685
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: time on their hands. And I want to make something

686
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: really clear, I don't believe like like kind of like,

687
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: hell are we talking about Rhonda Santis He is the

688
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: one who is extremely online. I think your average person,

689
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: even if someone who is a Republican, I don't think

690
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: they spend this much time thinking about pride or thinking

691
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: about trans people, like even if they are people who

692
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: like don't understand LGBTQ identity, don't understand these issues. I

693
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: don't think that they are consumed by it where it's

694
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: like I'm going to film myself going into a target

695
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: doing potentially criminal behavior and having a public tantrum about it.

696
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: I think that even a lot of Republicans are probably

697
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: probably don't spend this much time on it. It is

698
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: the people who are extremely online, who are super super extremist,

699
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: who are trying to make it seem like this is

700
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: a normal, a normal position to have, when in fact

701
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: that it's out of step.

702
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 3: I would argue, in my opinion, with how.

703
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: Most people feel, I think that most people are like, yeah,

704
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: I'm not going to film myself going into a target

705
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 1: destroying a Pride collection, even if I don't understand trans people,

706
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: because I have shit to do in my day that

707
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,919
Speaker 1: doesn't include that, Like I have other things to think about,

708
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: there's other shit on my mind.

709
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: I think you're absolutely right right now. But I think

710
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: those same people who are you know, maybe vote Republican

711
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 2: or you know, consider themselves on the right, even if

712
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 2: they don't get like as fired up about these culture

713
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 2: war issues that these people do, they're still seeing that

714
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 2: content and exactly like you said, I think one of

715
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: the goals of these people doing this is to normalize

716
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 2: it and make it seem like this is an okay,

717
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 2: normal attitude to have.

718
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, I completely agree. I think that it is

719
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: about making this position commonplace, and I don't think it

720
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: actually is. I think that that is part of what

721
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: these public campaigns against Target, against bud Light are meant

722
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: to signal that if you want to be a Republican,

723
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: part of being a Republican, maybe you don't have to

724
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: go out and like destroy pride stuff. But when it

725
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: comes to how how legislating trans people you know, goes

726
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: out in your town, you know what side to be

727
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: on where at.

728
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 3: So I think it's I think it's about like.

729
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: Using the Internet and using these like spectacles to signal

730
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: to people this is what it means to be a

731
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: conservative in twenty twenty three. You gotta be against you know,

732
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: like again like it's it's it is wild to me

733
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: to even say, like, who cares this much about the

734
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: merchandise at Target? I see stuff at Target I don't

735
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: like all the time. I don't film myself destroying it.

736
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: Most people don't like. That is criminal behavior. It is

737
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's it's not just like it's it's

738
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: so hard for me. I mean, I mean it's so

739
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: hard for me to even like explain what I mean.

740
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: Is like, so it's like socially, what's the word I'm

741
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: looking for.

742
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 2: That's the word you're looking for.

743
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 3: It's like it's like it's like anti social behavior.

744
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: It's like, oh totally, you know, Yeah, we have lost

745
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: the ability to like be like, well, we live in

746
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: a society, and maybe I don't like all this rainbow stuff,

747
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: but like that's that's life.

748
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: You know.

749
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 2: Whatever happened to minding one's own business?

750
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 5: Right?

751
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 2: Like I thought that was a conservative thing. Uh. You know,

752
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: maybe you don't have to like something, but why do

753
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: you have to like legislate it and you know, affect

754
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,919
Speaker 2: other people. Uh, it's it's scary. So I just went

755
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: back home to to where I grew up in rural

756
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 2: upstate New York a little bit ago, and I was

757
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 2: talking with an older guy I know there. He's uh

758
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 2: in the baby boomer generation. Uh, he's conservative, but he's

759
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: not a bad guy. He's not a hateful guy. You know,

760
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: he has gay friends. One of his kids is dating

761
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: a person of color. He's white and like he had

762
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 2: to do some work, but he's cool that he's not

763
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: like a bad guy. But he definitely considers himself a conservative.

764
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 2: And for the first time on this trip home a

765
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago, he asked me about like, well,

766
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: what do you think about gender affirming care and like

767
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: should we be giving that to kids? It's like, why

768
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: do you care all of a sudden, like there are

769
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 2: no trans people in your life, there's certainly no trans kids.

770
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: I can only imagine what you think gender affirming care means.

771
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 2: And yet this is the topic that you bring up,

772
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 2: that you want to talk about because it's what you

773
00:41:53,480 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 2: see on the internet, and it's really worrisome. It's really worrisome.

774
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: It is worrisome.

775
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: And how effectively they were able to be like, oh, well,

776
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 1: we're just asking questions about bathrooms. Oh, we're just asking

777
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 1: questions about protecting girls in sports. We're just asking questions

778
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,479
Speaker 1: about whether parents who give their kids access to gender

779
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: affirming care should have their kids taken from by the state.

780
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: Like it's like the way that it's gotten so incrementally

781
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: more damaging in exactly the way that trans activists and

782
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: advocates warned from the very fucking beginning is terrifying, and

783
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: it is wild how much misinformation I have seen about

784
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: this Target Pride collection. And you've probably seen it too,

785
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: you know. There was this viral claims that Target is

786
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: selling tuck friendly swimsuits and chest binders for toddlers. They don't.

787
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: I mean, like, think about that for one second. Why

788
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: would Target be selling a product a chest binder that

789
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: is meant to find someone's breast.

790
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 3: Toddlers don't have breasts, Just.

791
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: Like it's just like one of those things of like,

792
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: think about it for five seconds and see if it

793
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: makes any sense. There was another claim that Target was

794
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: selling a children's T shirt that said Satan Respects Pronouns

795
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: with a pastel image of Satan on it. First of all,

796
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: I feel like if you're a conservative Christian and a

797
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: shirt says that Satan respects pronouns, wou don't you kind

798
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: of like like that because you don't like Satan and

799
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: Satan and.

800
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 2: You also don't like pronouns. Yeah, you don't like Satan.

801
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 2: You don't like pronouns, you know, only like direct nouns,

802
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: no pronouns.

803
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So like I have some like conceptual questions

804
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: about this piece of misinformation. But in any event, uh,

805
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,240
Speaker 1: Target never sold a shirt for children that said Satan

806
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: respects pronouns. In reality, Target sold three items from the

807
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: UK based designer A Prian. While it's true that this

808
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,479
Speaker 1: designer does make a Satan Respects Pronouns shirt, they don't

809
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: make it for kids, and Target does not sell it,

810
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,280
Speaker 1: and it's never sold it or carried it, let alone

811
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: one for kids. They carry three different items from the

812
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: designer that say things like cure transphobia, not trans people,

813
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 1: and we belong everywhere. And this is a really good

814
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,760
Speaker 1: example of how this information works. Because the truth that Target,

815
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: like pretty much any other big retailer in the world,

816
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: buys some items from retailers and not others, and stocks

817
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: the things that like align with their branding and their

818
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: values and not other things. That is a complicated and

819
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: a little bit boring explanation, right supply chain, Oh, who's

820
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: got time for it. Meanwhile, the lie, which is that

821
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: Target is perverting kids with satan and transness, that is

822
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: so much more charged, and so it's not surprising to

823
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: me that people, even if it's not true, people really

824
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: flock to the you know, the inflammatory lie over the

825
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: kind of boring, humdrum reality of supply chain and how

826
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:55,479
Speaker 1: big retailers work.

827
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 2: Truth, I think it's gonna get us what the law.

828
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 3: A million points if you get that reference listeners.

829
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 4: More.

830
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 5: After a quick break, let's.

831
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 4: Get right back into it.

832
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 1: So as dark as all of this is, I should

833
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: say that there's upright side. People have been supporting the

834
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: designer who is trends and flooding his online store with

835
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: so many orders that he could not keep up. He

836
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: wrote on his Etsy store, your support during this extremely

837
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: difficult time means more than I can express. And here's

838
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: the bottom line. This is a harassment and disinformation campaign

839
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 1: led by extremists like Matt Walsh and Charlie Kirk, which

840
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: is honestly what they do.

841
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 3: Fine, you know, I'm not surprised by it.

842
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: But what is worse is how they have framed this

843
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: in some mainstream media sources who are essentially doing the

844
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: work of extremists for them by legitimizing and kind of

845
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: like laundering this behavior. I've seen a lot of coverage

846
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: that would suggest that this harassment is just like it's

847
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: just sort of happening organically, completely ignoring that specific right

848
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: wing extremist influencers with massive online platforms have explicitly called

849
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: for this kind of behavior at Target. So it's not organic.

850
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: It's not just concerned parents, it's not just you know,

851
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: angry people. It is a targeted, coordinated harassment campaign being

852
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: led by specific people with big platforms. I've seen this

853
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: really lazy coverage that relies on, like, very heavily relies

854
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: on passive voice, making it seem like, you know, like

855
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: they'll say like, oh, you know, amidst this climate again,

856
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: making it seem like this is something other than an intentional,

857
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: coordinated campaign to attack LGBTQ people and the people who

858
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: support them. And it's not just in stores. It is

859
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: in laws that get queer and trans people killed. It

860
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: is in laws that keep queer and trans people from

861
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 1: accessing healthcare that they need. It is not just about

862
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: these shirts at Target. It is so much bigger than that.

863
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: And I think it is so lazy and sad that

864
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: we don't have a media ecosystem that reports this as

865
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: it is happening. They continue to make it seem like

866
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: it's just some weird thing in the climate, like oh,

867
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: it's warm out today. People are angry about trans shirts

868
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: at Target that is not what's happening, and we do

869
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: not have a media who is telling the truth about

870
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: what is actually happening.

871
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: Wolf bridget, So, was there any good news this week?

872
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: Because I'm feeling pretty bummed out after that rundown.

873
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 3: I know it's sad, but don't worry. I got you.

874
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: So people are turning to the Internet to answer questions

875
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: about their gender and sexuality. This is according to a

876
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: new analysis from the Cultural Current Institute, a market research

877
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: firm that studies opinion trends. They looked at Google trends

878
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: information from two thousand and four to dismay for questions

879
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: related to sexual orientation and gender identity across all fifty states.

880
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: They found that Google searches by users for phrases questioning

881
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: their own sexuality and gender ida, so things like am

882
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: I gay? Or am I a lesbian have increased by

883
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: one three hundred percent. Here's why I think this is

884
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: good news. People, especially young people, should be able to

885
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: count on the Internet to help them answer questions about

886
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: their identity. We're obviously living in a time where right

887
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: wing forces are trying to eradicate queerness and transness, not

888
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: just from the Internet, but also from public life. But

889
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: the Internet is another battleground for them in this fight.

890
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: For instance, the Heritage Foundation outright stated their intention to

891
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: use legislation like the Child Online Privacy and Protection Act,

892
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 1: which is legislation that would create an age requirement to

893
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: access the Internet, to use that legislation to fight against quote,

894
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 1: the woke design of digital spaces, and to guard kids

895
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 1: against the harms of sexual and transgender content.

896
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: That is a nice palate cleanser. It's a really nice

897
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 2: reminder that all these right wing fascists and bigots are

898
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 2: a minority. They're hopefully a dying breed, and that part

899
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 2: of why they're so angry is because they know that

900
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: the general population and young people in particular, are just

901
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:14,240
Speaker 2: moving further and further away from them and their reactionary, intolerant,

902
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 2: invasive ideologies that just want to force people into these

903
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 2: narrow little boxes that people that they've been trying to

904
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 2: get people into for generations. And with the Internet, we

905
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 2: now can all see what a lie those tiny little

906
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: boxes are. No one fits in them. We're all so

907
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 2: much vaster and more interesting than they would have us believe.

908
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 2: And they know that, and the Internet allows us to

909
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 2: see that, and it's a nice reminder that people are

910
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 2: still finding that and questioning things and exploring who they

911
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: are and how they relate to each other, or because

912
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 2: I you know, I personally genuinely believe that that is

913
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 2: a mark of a healthy person. Right who asked the

914
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,240
Speaker 2: question who am I? How do I relate to the world?

915
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: How do we relate to each other? And people are

916
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: asking that, you know, regardless of what answer they get

917
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 2: when they do a Google search for am I gay?

918
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 2: They're asking the question and they're learning something about themselves.

919
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: And I think it's that questioning that is so terrifying

920
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 2: to them.

921
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 3: Well, I think that you're exactly right. That's a beautiful

922
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 3: way to put it.

923
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: And I think that it is a reminder that these

924
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: bigots and right wing fascists and extremists are in the minority.

925
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: And we know that because if their positions were actually enticing,

926
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have to lie about them to get people

927
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: to follow them. You wouldn't have to lie about the

928
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: kinds of pride things that target sells to get people

929
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: on your side. So the fact that they're lying in

930
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: a kind of way actually shows that they know that

931
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: their positions aren't popular. Because you wouldn't have to lie

932
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: if they were popular, and so I agree, you know,

933
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: I think that this is good news that people are

934
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: used turning to the Internet to find to answer these questions.

935
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: Because questioning yourself, looking inward, being introspective as figuring out

936
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: these things about who you are and how you fit

937
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: into the world is the mark of a healthy person

938
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 1: and we should be encouraging that. And so if people

939
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: are still able to turn to the Internet for exploration

940
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,959
Speaker 1: of their identities to ask some of those questions, that's

941
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: a good thing, you know, It's what people should be

942
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: able to turn to the Internet for. I've shared this

943
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,359
Speaker 1: on the podcast many times. When I was growing up,

944
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: the Internet is how I learned about myself and my

945
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: own identity and my own sexuality and gender presentation. And

946
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: if I had not had the Internet, I don't know

947
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: what I would have done. And so I'm very lucky

948
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 1: that I was coming of age when I did and

949
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: the kind of internet climate that I was, And I

950
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 1: genuinely worry about the next generation. Well they have an

951
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: Internet landscape that they can turn to for these questions.

952
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: It is nice to get a little bit of information

953
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: that suggests that that Internet, which I think is so

954
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 1: crucial is still there for them? So I'm calling it

955
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: good news.

956
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: I'll take it. Yeah. Thanks, Bridget can always out on you.

957
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 1: Thanks Mike for helping me talk through it, and thanks

958
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: to all of you for listening. If you want more

959
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: content like this without any commercials, you can subscribe to

960
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: our Patreon at patreon dot com slash Tangody I'll see

961
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: you there. If you're looking for ways to support the show,

962
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: check out our mark store at tenggodi dot com slash store.

963
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or

964
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: just want to say hi, you can reach us at

965
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: Hello at tenggody dot com. You can also find transcripts

966
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No

967
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd.

968
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unboss Creative, edited by

969
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 1: Joey pat Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tari Harrison

970
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almado is our

971
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 1: contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want

972
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

973
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio, app,

974
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.