1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: Have you ever woken up from a dream, walked around 2 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: and then realize you're still dreaming? Yes, And it's made 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: me wonder like, is reality actually part of a dream? 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: Like an inception or the matrix? How do we know 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: if we are living in a dream or even in 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: someone else's dream, or like a low resolution A bit 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: video game. Hi, I'm Daniel and I'm Jorge, and this 8 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: is Daniel and Jorge explain the universe, ex playing the universe, 9 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: the whole entire universe, all of it. Now you might 10 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: be wondering, who are these guys who are gonna explain 11 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: the universe to you? Yeah? Who are we? Daniel? Who 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: are we? Anyway? That's a good question. Well, I'm a 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: particle physicist. I do my research at the Large Hadron 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: Collider in Geneva, where we smash particles together and trying 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: to figure out what is the universe made out of 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,639 Speaker 1: and how does this all work? And mostly enjoy getting 17 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: to play with enormous ten billion dollar taxpayer funded toys. Nice, 18 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: And I'm a former robotics researcher. And now I'm a cartoonist. 19 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: And where do you do most of your work or 20 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: is it a fancy government lab. Yes, I do most 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: of my work in my pajamas in my garage. Um, 22 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: usually starting late in the morning. And how does a 23 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: roboticist end up becoming a cartoonist? That is a really 24 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: great question. And I have to tell you that, Um, 25 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: my parents are also very worried about that whole career trajectory. 26 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: But now, yeah, they're worried about their investment in your 27 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: in your education. There. I think they're just concerned about 28 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: my financial well being. But now I used to be uh, 29 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: I used to be I have a PhD in robotics. 30 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: I used to do research on legged robots and robots 31 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: and could run and like jump around. Um. But then 32 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: at some point I started drawing comics and I really 33 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: like that and it kind of became more popular than 34 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: my research, and so I draw something called PhD comics, 35 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: which is how we met because I used to be 36 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: a huge fan of PhD comics. Yeah, and um, and 37 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: I used to be a big fan of of like 38 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: the universe and so so until you know, it's almost 39 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: all of the universe now, and but the universe is 40 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: sort of where we overlap, right. I do research about 41 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: the universe, and you try to explain the universe in 42 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: your science, communication and all that stuff, and so I 43 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: feel like we have a significant overlap there. Yeah. I 44 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: just really like talking to people who know a lot 45 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: of stuff about something and just kind of learning new things, 46 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: you know. I always I always get my mind blown 47 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: when I talked to someone who's a researcher on something, 48 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: because it's just kind of amazing, like how much we 49 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: don't know about stuff. You know, you sort of walk 50 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 1: around feeling like, hey, we got everything figured out. Um. 51 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: But I always love finding out what people are still 52 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: like wondering about, and I love pretending to know stuff 53 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: about stuff and blowing people's minds. So it's a perfect 54 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: setup right now. I think that some of these questions 55 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: are really interesting and they're really accessible, and my hope 56 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: is that people out there will be listening to this 57 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: stuff and think, oh, man, I wish I could have 58 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: done physics in high school, or some kid who's who's 59 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: listening to it out there it gets inspired and thinks about, 60 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: um potentially going into physics, because there's a huge number 61 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: of really deep, fascinating questions that we still have to answer. 62 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: Like the topic of today's podcast Yeah Today on the 63 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: program is the universe a simulation the whole universe. I 64 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: love the size of these questions we're asking. Is the 65 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: whole universe simulation? Yeah? That's uh so, that's a crazy question. 66 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: It's basically the question like are we living in the matrix? Well, 67 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: first of all, the matrix is ridiculous because at its 68 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: basic premise it didn't work at all, you know, like 69 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: batteries what I mean, come on, humans consume and or 70 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: they don't produce energy. So the whole fundamental underlying assumption 71 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: of the matrix boom, toss it out the window. But 72 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: the core idea there that did we could be immersed 73 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: in a deeply realistic virtual reality that we're not aware of, right, 74 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: that we think reality, that what we're experiencing is reality, 75 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: when when actually it's something simulated. That's the fascinating way, 76 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: Like what we see and what we hear and what 77 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: we touch is not like actually real, it's just like 78 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: a a computer feeding as these sensations to us. Yeah, 79 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: and only I think recently has this possibility even arisen 80 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: because we do now have virtual reality, right, you can't 81 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: have fairly immersive experiences and people extrapolate from that. It's 82 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: getting more real and real the simulated things we can 83 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: the things we can simulate. Absolutely. I had a virtual 84 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: reality experience a couple of weeks ago. I went to 85 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: a go kart place with my son and I went 86 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: into a virtual reality go kart racing thing where you 87 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: sit in a chair and the chair shakes in your 88 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: car bumps into stuff, and um, it's totally immersive. And 89 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: you know, every time I was about to crash into 90 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: the wall, which was a lot of times, I found 91 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: myself like throwing my arms up to protect myself and 92 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: ducking and stuff like that, because it really it felt realistic. 93 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: It definitely triggered all of my instincts and absolutely, I 94 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: mean I would have wet myself ahead and pid just beforehand. Well. 95 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: I had a very intense virtual reality experience too recently. 96 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: I I am. I read the news and you think, 97 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: I hope that because this is crazy. Um, but yeah, 98 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: so that's that's the idea, is that that's the question. 99 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: Is the universe a simulation, Like is what we see 100 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: around is real? Or is it Are we like sitting 101 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: in a vat of liquids floating somewhere in some alien 102 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: beings um factory, being fed all of these sensations and 103 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: sights and sounds just kind of keep us happy. For 104 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: some reason, you make it sound so sinister. Why can't 105 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: it be like a cozy, warm, cuddly environment where we're 106 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: like nestled in a sunny garden somewhere and being fed 107 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: this beautiful, wonderful universe of simulations. Right, But you just 108 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: have to be like, we're experiments in some you know, 109 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: we're subjects in some sinister experiments somewhere. Well, why else 110 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: would somebody do that? So let's take a step back. 111 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: So this question has been kind of very recently come. 112 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: I mean, it's always sort of been around in science fiction, 113 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: but it's sort of become serious, lady, right, like Elon 114 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: Musk is wondering about it. Right, And so we went 115 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,559 Speaker 1: out in the street. We asked people if they thought 116 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: they were living in a simulation. So think for a 117 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: moment yourself, listener, do you think the universe could be 118 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: a simulation? Here's what people on the street had to say. 119 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: We're like my trich or somewhere that it could be. 120 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: But I doubt it. I doubt it, you know. But 121 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: it's because I don't want to tell myself that everything 122 00:06:55,040 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: I do is the universe seems so let's normal. It 123 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like that could be fossible. So most people 124 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: thought maybe it was a possibility, but nobody really firmly 125 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: believed it. Nobody thought absolutely, I'm convinced. Yeah, most people 126 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: seem very skeptical, but a lot of them allowed the possibility. Right, Well, 127 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: you never know, but maybe sort of a thing. Yeah, 128 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: And I have to mean I fall into like Kemp, 129 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: I'm pretty skeptical about this idea. Uh. And I like 130 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: one of the answers that they said, which is like, 131 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's possible. Everything seems really realistic. Yeah, 132 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: that's a nice argument, and it's just because the universe 133 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: around you feel so detailed. I mean you look at 134 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: the tiniest little water droplets and the light sparkling off 135 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: of it. It seems like an impossible problem to write 136 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: a simulation that it's this realistic. It seems impossible, right, Yeah, 137 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: But I don't know if that that's really very persuasive argument, 138 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: because computers are getting faster and faster, and you just 139 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: extrapolate from what we can do now to what we 140 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: can do in twenty years. I mean, look at how 141 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: video games have improved from like Super Mario two super 142 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: realistic racing games. Now it's incredible how much more realistic 143 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: they are, from like Pong to like, uh yeah, like 144 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: World of Warcraft. There's so realistic now. Absolutely, So I 145 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: don't really think the it's impossible argument is very strong 146 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: also because you have to imagine if somebody is running 147 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: our universe as a simulation, who knows what kind of 148 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: computational powers they have, right, um, and and if they 149 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: are their universe, the one that our universe is running 150 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: as a simulation inside of doesn't have to follow the 151 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: same laws as our universe. Right If we're in a 152 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: video game inside somebody else's universe, our video game can 153 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: have rules that don't exist outside the video game. Right, 154 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: So they like F equals m A or general relativity 155 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: that could have been something they just made up because 156 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: they thought they would be fun or interesting, you know, 157 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: like like we like we create video games with crazy 158 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: physical rules. You know, Mario can jump half of the screen, 159 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: he can jump twenty feet up in the air. Um, 160 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: so maybe that's that's why our physical laws are. They're 161 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: just kind of like, hey, let's make this fun universe 162 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: where efquals are a kind of the idea that's exactly right. Yeah, 163 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And I think that's partially the origin 164 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: of this idea. You know, what is physics doing? Ask 165 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: yourself that physics is trying to figure out what are 166 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: the rules of this universe? Right, what are the underlying 167 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 1: code that runs this universe? And so now that we 168 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: actually have pretty powerful computer programs, people wonder, well, if 169 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: you were in a computer program and you were trying 170 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: to figure out what the rules of that simulated universe were, 171 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: you'd essentially be trying to understand what was the physics 172 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: coded into that universe. So in some sense, yeah, you'd 173 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: be a physicist exactly. Physicists are trying to reverse engineer 174 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: the source code of the universe. Right, regardless of whether 175 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: you believe the universe is real or a simulation, it 176 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: does seem to follow some rules, right. So it's like 177 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: when you first it's amazing that we can even discover those. 178 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like when you first play Super 179 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: Mario or something and you're you're just jumping around and 180 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: move around trying to figure out how Mari moves. You're 181 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: essentially like being a physicist in that world. That's exactly right. 182 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: Everybody who plays a video game for the first time 183 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: is being I think that's exactly everybody who plays video games. 184 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: That's right. That you just gave a whole generation of 185 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: listeners a reason to stop doing their physics homework and 186 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: turn on their video Thank you. The PC is only 187 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: valued inside the video game, that's right. But you know, 188 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: I think that there's a natural curiosity there, right. The 189 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: reason video games are fun is because you get to 190 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: explore a new world and figure out it's rules and 191 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: learn to master it. Also, the best science fiction is 192 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: the same way. The best science fiction. You're thrown into 193 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: a fictional universe and the rules could be different. Usually 194 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: they are, and you have to figure them out. You know, 195 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: bad science fiction they tell you in boring narration overtones 196 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: exactly how things work. But in good science fiction, you 197 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: have to puzzle it out for yourself. You have to 198 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: deduce what the history is and what the rules are, 199 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: and how things work in this fictional universe. Have to 200 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: be like an explorer, like an experiment er. Yeah. I 201 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: love how we're describing physicists as these like avant gode 202 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: explorers as the couch potatoes who play video games. That's 203 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: that's basically not that not that different from reality built 204 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: couch potatoes. Well, you know, I find it really interesting 205 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: that you so you're a serious physicist. I mean, like, um, 206 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, you you're like a professor, and you you've 207 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: you don't sort of scoff at this idea immediately, you know, 208 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: like I feel like it's a crazy idea, but it's 209 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: like something physicists uh uh, actually sort of, they say, 210 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: are forced to say, yeah, it's possible. Right. Well, I 211 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: think part of the job of being a physicist, and 212 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: I would take exception with being called too serious. Seriously, 213 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: part of the job of being a physicist is being 214 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: prepared for making mind blowing discoveries. You know, I think 215 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: best kind of physics discoveries are the ones that completely 216 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: change your view of the universe. You know that discover 217 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: where you discover the universe works really differently from the 218 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: way you did, And so you have to be open 219 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: to crazy new ideas if you even have a chance 220 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: to make a crazy discovery. I guess by serious physicist, 221 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: I mean an employed physicist. That's right, I still have 222 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: a job that makes me a physicist. On that note, 223 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break I like what you said earlier, 224 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: which is that you know our universe right now, the 225 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: one where even if it was not a simulation, it's 226 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: sort of like a simulation in that that's kind of 227 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 1: what a simulation is. It's like there's laws and then uh, 228 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: you figure out what's going to happen in the next 229 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: time instant based on those laws. That's I mean, that's 230 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: basically what a simulation is, right, right, But is the 231 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: universe like a simulation or is a simulation like the universe? 232 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: I mean we can think simulations I know, or Ay 233 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: says whoa. I mean, we invented simulations in order to 234 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: model example universes, right, We said, what would happen if 235 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: the universe was like this, Well, let's see, and then 236 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: we build a little simulation and we test it out. 237 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: So simulations are built to mirror the universe on purpose, 238 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: and and we code in the rules of the universe 239 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: in that simulation because we think there are rules of 240 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,359 Speaker 1: the universe, and we could have a whole other conversation 241 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,599 Speaker 1: about like why does the universe have rules? Why do 242 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: those rules seem to be fairly constant, and why can 243 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: we discover them and express them in terms of mathematics, 244 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: like enormous philosophy questions we haven't even scratched the surface of. 245 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: And I thought, I really like thinking about, like what 246 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: is the computer of the universe except for a moment? 247 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: The universe follows some laws, real or simulation. Right, they're 248 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: like imprinted in the way things are. Yeah, they're set somewhere, right, 249 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: they're fixed somehow. How are those laws enacted? Like when 250 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: a particle bounces off of another particle, how is that 251 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: calculation done? You know what determines what is going to happen? There? 252 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: It takes no time, right, it's instantaneous, no lag or 253 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: delay in our universe that says, oh you know, um no, 254 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: there's no spinning ball of death when something complicated happens, right, 255 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,479 Speaker 1: No matter how complicated it is, the calculation is done instantly. 256 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: Like how does that little particle know to follow the rules? 257 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, It's just it's just done. Yeah, 258 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: And like, what what is there to enforce those rules? Right? 259 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: If a particle was like, yeah, I'm not gonna follow 260 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: the rules. I like how you try to give attitude 261 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: to everything like personalities. Yeah, maybe that's why I got 262 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: um fired from my robotics too. Um um, yeah, but 263 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: like what what what enforces the laws of physics in 264 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: our universe? Right? That's right? Well, if you if you 265 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: like the simulation model, right, then member that inside the 266 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: simulation the rules are followed, but the calculations are done 267 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: outside the simulation. Right. If we build a simulated universe, right, 268 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: you and me sit down de side when they would 269 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: build a little mini universe in which cartoonists and roboticists 270 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: or kings or something, and we can set the rules 271 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: of that universe, but the calculations for that universe are 272 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: not done inside that universe, are done in our universe. Right, 273 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: in our computers, like in a simulation or a video game, 274 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: you would say, all right, here's a mass of Mario, 275 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: and this is the force that's being applied to Mario. 276 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: Therefore he should be accelerating. You crunch the numbers and 277 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: you say he should be accelerating this much, right, and 278 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: then you apply that to the video games. Say we're 279 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: in universe zero, right, and we're simulating universe one. And 280 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: then as you said, things that happened in universe one 281 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: are calculated in universe zero right outside of our universe. 282 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: That's the thing I find compelling about this is the 283 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: universe of simulation question because it touches on that question, 284 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: where are the calculations done for our universe universe zero? 285 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: Is there a universe minus one with some giant computer 286 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: that's doing these calculations blindingly fast or is it just 287 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: magically done? So, like, if if we're in a simulation 288 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: and everyone listening to this is an assimulation, what is 289 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: computing the calculations in the upper universe, in the outside universe, 290 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: that's right? What is that computer? Like it doesn't have 291 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: to follow the same rules as our universe, And how 292 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: is it possibly doing all these calculations um to describe 293 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: our universe? And this is a question that's fair to 294 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: ask even if the universe is real, even if it's 295 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: not a simulation, you have to wonder how is this done? 296 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: How is this um? How is this universe run? You know, 297 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: I think that's a really fun way. It doesn't It 298 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: doesn't go away. That's the interesting thing. It's like, even 299 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: if we are a simulation, then you still have to 300 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: answer the question about the aliens is universe, you know, 301 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: like what how how does it work for them? Yeah, 302 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: that's right, it's an endlessly recursive question. And you can 303 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: owe is ask are we in the stimulation or not? 304 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: And you know, basic things that we assume, like the 305 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: universe has rules. Those rules don't change with time. That 306 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: could be different in other simulations or in the you 307 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: know this the universe that's running our simulation. That could 308 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: be different. It could be in their universe. The laws 309 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: of physics change with time, the speed of light is 310 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: variable with time, all sorts of other stuff. So they 311 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: were like, hey, let's have some fun. Let's create a 312 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: video game where the rules don't change. Yeah, for example, 313 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just one hypothetical, not one that I believe, 314 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: but just it's a possibility. Um. And and that that 315 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: touches on other really fascinating stuff like say you have 316 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: some calculation you want to do. It's really complicated. It 317 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: would take one of our computers a billion years, right, 318 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: If you can arrange our universe in such a way 319 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: so that it does that calculation for you, Well, our 320 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: universe appears to be able to do these calculations instantly, right, 321 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: So so you might be thinking, well, that's absurd. Well 322 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: let me give you a concrete example. So you have 323 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: a ball that has like ten to the ten atoms 324 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: in it, and you want to understand how it drops right, 325 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: how it falls right, Well, you could either do that calculation, 326 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: which would take you a billion years, or you could 327 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: actually just drop a ball right. So in that sense, 328 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: we can use our universe as a computer if what 329 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: you wanted to know was something that was going to 330 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: happen naturally in our universe exactly. And that is what 331 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: experimental physics is, is arranging physical systems to do instantaneous 332 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: calculations of things we otherwise couldn't figure out. Right. For example, 333 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: I kind of said it in a derisive way I can. 334 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: I said it is like, that's a silly idea, but 335 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: you're saying it's the basis of your entire research field. 336 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: That's right, That's what it experimental physics. That's why we 337 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: do experimental physics because the universe is faster calculating this 338 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: stuff than we are. Sometimes in particle physics, we don't 339 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 1: know how to do a calculation. We're like, well, what 340 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 1: happens when this and this hits that? Well, we can't 341 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: calcul it. Well, let's just go measure it, because the 342 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: universe can do the calculation without us. If you had 343 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: as a miraculous computer. You wouldn't need to do experiments 344 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: because you could just simulate every possibility in this magical 345 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: computer and you would know the answer that's right, And 346 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: the universe is that computer. Oh that's that's wild. Yeah, 347 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: but you know it's it's not infinitely configurable. Like on 348 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: your simulation that you write on your laptop, you can 349 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: control everything, you can do everything you want. In the 350 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: case of the universe, we can't necessarily do any arbitrary 351 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: calculation because you can't arrange the universe to do it 352 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: for you. Like if you want to just know what's 353 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: going to weather going to be like tomorrow in Australia, 354 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: that's a really hard calculation. How would we set that up. Well, 355 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: we'd have an earth, right, and we'd run it forward 356 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: for a day, But you wouldn't have the answer in advance, right, 357 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: you'd have the answer tomorrow when it's tomorrow in Australia. 358 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: So it's not it's not I'm not saying that the 359 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,719 Speaker 1: universe is a perfect infinite computer that we can use 360 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: to answer any question. I'm saying that's kind of the model. Yeah, exactly. 361 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: On that note, let's take a quick break. Well, I 362 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: find it really fascinating that physicists have come up with 363 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: ways to maybe check to see if we are in 364 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: a simulated universe. Right, Like, there's actually there might be 365 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: experiments we can do to test whether we are neo 366 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: in the matrix or not exactly. And that's step two, 367 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: right for Step one is have crazy idea. Step two 368 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: is how could we test this idea? Step two get 369 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: money for the crazy idea, apply for grant fundings. Are 370 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: crazy idea? Um, it's pretty hard because you have to 371 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: make some assumptions about how that simulation is done right, 372 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: and those assumptions are just guesses really, But that's fine. 373 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: Like a lot of times in science, we don't know 374 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: how to approach a problem, so we just make a 375 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: bunch of guesses so that we can at least try 376 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: to answer the question. And then maybe later we re 377 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: evaluate those guesses and try to widen the scope or whatever, 378 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: but just so we can get somewhere. Right, Well, what 379 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: are some of these ways that physicists think that maybe 380 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: we could figure out if we're in a simulation. Well, 381 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: one way is to look for things that move super 382 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: duper fast. And the reason is that if we were 383 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: to simulate a universe. The way we would do it 384 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: is to slice space up into huge cubes and simulate 385 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: each cube. Because you can't simulate the whole universe at once. 386 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: You'd want like a bank of computers. You would only 387 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: simulate the parts that are sort of relevant to the 388 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: video game players, that's right. And also you would want 389 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: to have a bunch of computers working in parallel. You 390 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: wouldn't want a single computer operating on the whole universe. 391 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: You just want to slice it up and say this 392 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: cube light year cube of space is handled by this computer, 393 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: and this light year cube handle them by that computer, 394 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: and when things cross the boundaries, they have to talk 395 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: to each other. But that's the way we simulate. For example, 396 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: you know an ice cube forming you have you have 397 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: a bunch of calculations of these water molecules, but you 398 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: do them in little cubes um and then you interface them. 399 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: And so people think, what happens when something is going 400 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: super fast through the universe. It could cross a bunch 401 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: of these cubes really quickly, and that would be difficult 402 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: for this simulation to do correctly, and so we'd have 403 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: to look for little glitches like that, like you would 404 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: have to look for cases that are really kind of 405 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: pushing the limits of the computer that's simulating us potentially 406 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: to see if there are any like like if if 407 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: the simulation breaks them out exactly and that's you put 408 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: it exactly right. But we have to assume we know 409 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: something about what's hard for those kind of universe simulators, right, 410 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: which is like so presumptuous to even know. But if 411 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: what's hard for the universe simulators is the same thing 412 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: as what's hard for us when we simulate a little 413 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: mini universes, then one thing that's hard is things across 414 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: that go really fast. And so there are things out 415 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,239 Speaker 1: there in space that's that zoom around super quickly and 416 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: that can potentially give us clues. So we have to 417 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: assume that a it's hard to simulate the entire universe 418 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: at the same time, so we have to break it 419 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: up and be we have to assume that, um, things 420 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: going really really really fast across these different chunks of 421 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: the universe. Um, that's a hard problem, that's right. And 422 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: so one thing we look at our super fast cosmic 423 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: rays cosmic grains are just particles in space zooming around, 424 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: and it's a whole other interesting mystery about why those 425 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: particles are there and why they're going so fast. But 426 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: they're going incredibly fast, like ridiculously fast, much faster than 427 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,719 Speaker 1: particles we make here on Earth, even at our fancy 428 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: ten billion dollar accelerators, and those are going so fast 429 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: that they might reveal these glitches. So if we look 430 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: to see if those particles are coming at the same 431 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 1: rate in every direction and this kind of stuff, we 432 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: might be able to get hints that there might be 433 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: little glitches in the simulation. Cool. So are there any 434 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: other ideas for testing this? I don't think there are 435 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: any ideas that have much widespread support. I mean, we're 436 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: already talking about crazy theories here, but I mean an 437 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: idea I have is communicate with the simulators, right, Like, 438 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: let's send the message, you know, like like I know, 439 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 1: like I know what's going on. We figured it out, right, Like, 440 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: say you are running a simulation of a universe, right, 441 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: and you don't tell the beings inside that universe that 442 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: it's a simulation because that would spoil your experiments somehow, right, Right, Well, 443 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: if they discover it, then you kind of want to 444 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: know and maybe you be interested in talking to them, right, 445 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: So I think let's try to send a message, you know, 446 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: let's write something on it. It's the equivalent running s 447 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: OS on the beach or or something. But they would 448 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: because they're overseeing our our universe, so they would know 449 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: that we're actually bluffing. We say, ha ha, we found out, 450 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: and they'd be like, no, you didn't. They haven't talked 451 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: to us so far. Why would they start out we 452 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: started bluffing. Mmm. That's a good point. But you're assuming 453 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: we are bluffing, right, What if we sincerely, honestly believe 454 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: the universe is a simulation. You're right, we don't have 455 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: any evidence for it, so we can't so we can't 456 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: scientifically sincerely believe that. Well, I think the biggest sign 457 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: that we're in a simulation is the fact that Kenna 458 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: Reeves has an age to day. Surely that's that is 459 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: a glitch in the matrix right there, the matrix. Yeah, well, um, 460 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: what would it be like to be in a simulation? Like? 461 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: What implications with that? It might be just like this, 462 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: It might not be any different. Yeah, I mean, if 463 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: we are in a simulation, then we already know the answer. 464 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: What's it like to be in a simulation? But you 465 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: probably meant something else you probably meant like you mean, oh, 466 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: I see, Like are we simulated minds? Like maybe we're 467 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: not um humans in a vat in a warehouse, in 468 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: an alien warehouse. Maybe we're like actually like pieces of coding. 469 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: We're like artificial intelligences. Oh my god. Like maybe we're 470 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: like the fodder in a video game. We're like the 471 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: mushrooms in Super Mario. You know we're here form right, 472 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 1: sort of two levels there, right, Like one level is 473 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: you are a brain, and your brain exists in the 474 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: real universe, but you're being fed information about a fake universe, right, 475 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: But your brain exists in the real universe. That's sort 476 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: of level one. Level two is you don't exist in 477 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: the real universe at all except in that simulation, right, 478 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: a piece of code that describes a virtual person. Right, 479 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: you could just exist in that simulation until the question 480 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: is like basically that are we real, are we conscious? 481 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: Are we actually something? Or are we like completely fake 482 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: or right? Which is right now an open question in philosophy, 483 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: Like say, for example, I could perfectly simulate Jorge's brain 484 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: and Horee's body, right, and I had that inside a computer, 485 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: and it's a completely faithful reproduction right, and just like you, 486 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: it's spent most of its day in pajamas and taking 487 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: naps in the afternoon. Right, Totally accurate. The question is 488 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: would that, Jorge feel anything? Would it be a where 489 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: would it be self conscious? Right? Because really we're sort 490 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: of computer ourselves, right, Like if we are real, we're 491 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: just a bunch of like neurons, which are really just 492 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: like little computers. We're just a massive computers in our brain. 493 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: So maybe maybe there's no difference. Maybe there's no difference, 494 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: right exactly. Maybe the thing that makes us us is 495 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: just the arrangement of these bits, right, just the information 496 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: stored in the physical computer that is me, of the 497 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: physical computer that is you. That's a little hard to grasp. 498 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: It's a little hard to feel comfortable with thinking I 499 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: am just this representation, right, because that means that you 500 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: could translate me into a totally different representation. Right, bits 501 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: inside a computer which are also a physical system, or 502 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: a computer is a physical system with switches and and 503 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: bits and stuff, and that that could be somehow equivalent 504 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: to me. The problem is, I don't think we could 505 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: ever know. And what I mean by that is, say 506 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: I have a computer simulation which is a perfect reproduction 507 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 1: of Jorge, Right, I mean not that I'm not perfect already. 508 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: But um, I'm not saying I wouldn't make a few tweaks. 509 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: You want to make a few tweaks? Oh um, But 510 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: say we had the simulated version before hey, and we 511 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: asked it, are you real? Well, if I ask you 512 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: if you're real, you'll say yes. So if the stimulation 513 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: is a perfect reproduction of you, it will also say 514 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: it's real. How do we distinguish between something that says 515 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: it's real, seems real, and but isn't actually aware? Wow, 516 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: we can't. That's a that's a topic known as a 517 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 1: philosophical zombie in philosophy circles. Yeah, well, the whole reason 518 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about this is basically, um is that the 519 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: computers are getting so advanced now that it's actually kind 520 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: of a possibility A and B. Physicists can't categorically say no, 521 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: that's impossible, and so that's why we're talking about it. 522 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: That's right, And there are even some people that make 523 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: the argument that it's likely, okay likely. Some people even 524 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: say that's not just like a crazy idea, that's not impossible. 525 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: It's like there's there's strong evidence for it. Not strong evidence. 526 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: But here here's the argument. You can judge for yourself 527 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: how strong it is. The idea goes like this, say 528 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: this one real universe, and inside that real universe, somebody 529 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: invents a simulated universe. Inside that simulated universe, somebody invents 530 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: a simulated universe. So now imagine a whole set of 531 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: nested universes, right, each of which is very realistic and 532 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: high fidelity, and his beings in it to feel alive 533 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: and love and hate and and all this kind of stuff. Um, 534 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: then if there are this whole nested set of universes 535 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: and only one is real, then what is the probability 536 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: that ours is that real one? So they argue that, 537 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: therefore the probability that our universe is real is small. Right, 538 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: It turns the question on its head, is you see 539 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: universe is simulation two? Is the universe real? And it 540 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: suggests that that's unlikely? Oh, meaning that it is it 541 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: is possible to simulate a universe. Therefore, in the infinity 542 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: of a time him in space. Um, what's the likelihood 543 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: that we are real? Not a stimulation? Um, It's it's 544 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: like non zero, yeah, exactly. It's like if you're in 545 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: an infinite crowd and only one person is real and 546 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: everybody else is fake. What are the chances that you're 547 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: the real one? Pretty small? Um. I think that's not 548 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: a very strong argument because it makes a lot of assumptions. 549 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: You know, it assumes that universes will always simulate another universe, 550 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: and those universes would be high fidelity, and that all 551 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: of them would be like ours, um and that kind 552 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: of stuff. But you know, it does have that cosmic context. 553 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: I like the sender, the fact that it reminds us 554 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: that we don't really know where we are and what 555 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: the context is, and that is important. As we think 556 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: we are sometimes it could just be that we are 557 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: Super Mario brothers bouncing around inside a video game. That's 558 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: that's I think a useful reminder. I've always identified more 559 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: with LEGI, to be honest, because he's the taller one. 560 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: He's I think he's a yeah, he's just kind of 561 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: the alert, the clearer brother. He doesn't care about getting 562 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: all the spotlight right. He's he's over that, he's above it. Well, 563 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: whether we are in a simulation or not. Um, it's 564 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: really fun to kind of question the nature of the universe. Right, absolutely, 565 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: And it's only in asking these crazy questions that we're 566 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: going to make crazy discoveries. Right, the universe might not 567 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: be a simulation, but in thinking about ways to test it, 568 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: we might discover other weird stuff that that gives us 569 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: another crazy idea, and that one might actually be true. 570 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: So this is we're all physicists in the sense that 571 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: we'd like to all think about big questions about the universe. 572 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: It's like in trying to break the video game, that's 573 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: when you discover the hitting easter eggs. That's right, the 574 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: easter eggs of the universe. That's where we're all hoping for. Cool. Well, 575 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: I hope you guys are keeping it real out there, 576 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: and I enjoyed this discussion. I hope you're keeping it simulated. 577 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: And have a great day until next time.