1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Col Zone Media. 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 2: On Sunday, May twenty first, twenty seventeen, Monroe County Sheriff's 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: Deputy Diana Torres pulled into the parking lot outside of 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 2: a Burger King on Route One. There were plenty of 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 2: empty parking spots, but she wasn't there for lunch. She 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 2: positioned her patrol car directly behind a blue suv, blocking 7 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: it in, and got out of her car. As she 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: approached the restaurant, the door opened and a man walked out. 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: Before he had a chance to react, she grabbed him 10 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 2: by the wrist and started handcuffing him. For all his 11 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 2: tough talk online, Brandon Russell went quietly. He would later 12 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: say that he just needed to get out of town 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: to clear his head after what he'd experienced on Friday night. 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: He'd come home from work to find two of his 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: roommates dead in their bedroom, murdered by a young man 16 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 2: he'd considered his best friend. But when officers searched the car, 17 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: they didn't find the kind of luggage you'd expect someone 18 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: to have for a weekend trip to the Florida Keys. 19 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 2: There wasn't so much as a toothbrush in the vehicle. 20 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 2: Instead of t shirts and swim trunks. They found rifles 21 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,559 Speaker 2: and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, some of it already 22 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: loaded into four high capacity magazines. Three hundred miles away 23 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: in a jail cell in Tampa, a murderer was begging 24 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 2: for a meeting with the FBI. He claimed he knew 25 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: exactly why his roommate was driving around South Florida with 26 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: a car full of guns. I'm Molly Conger in this. 27 00:01:54,200 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: It's weird. The guys. 28 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: When we left off last week, two men were in 29 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 2: custody and two men were dead. The actual facts of 30 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: the story are fairly straightforward, and it would make for 31 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: a pretty short episode. Devon Arthur's eventually pleaded guilty to 32 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: two counts of second degree murder for the murderers of 33 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 2: Andrew Anoschach and Jeremy Hemmelman, as well as three counts 34 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: of kidnapping for the three people he held at gunpoint 35 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: at the Strip Mall. Brand and Russell pleaded guilty to 36 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: federal charges of possessing an unregistered destructive device and improper 37 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 2: storage of explosive materials. Devon was sentenced to forty five 38 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: years in a Florida state prison, and Brandon was released 39 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, after serving most of a five 40 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 2: year sentence. The narrative tension in this story. It's not 41 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: in what happened, but why and what it might mean. 42 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: Hundreds of pages of police reports, years of filings in 43 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 2: their respective criminal cases, scores of news reports, at documentary 44 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: TV interviews, There's no shortage of material laying out the facts. 45 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: But it all leaves me with more questions than answers. 46 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: I've spent some time on the show ruminating on one 47 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: of these big questions before. It's one probably better left 48 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: to a philosopher than a podcaster. But it's about the 49 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: nature of truth. What does it even mean to say 50 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: that something is true? In this story? We have a 51 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: set of truths. Sure, we know that these men are 52 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: guilty of the crimes they committed. We know it because 53 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: a court said, so, Devin killed two people, Brandon had 54 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: a garage full of explosive materials. 55 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: That's true. 56 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: But because neither of them took their case to trial, 57 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: that's all we can really legally speaking say we know 58 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: for certain. Maybe at trial there would have been a 59 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 2: more aggressive exploration of Devon's claims that he'd killed his 60 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 2: roommates to prevent the terrorist attack they were planning. Maybe 61 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 2: if Brandon had gone to trial, the government would have 62 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 2: had to prove to a jury what he was going 63 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 2: to do with those explosives, but they didn't, so we 64 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: don't know, and we're left trying to construct our own 65 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 2: version of what might be true. Aside from the concrete facts, 66 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 2: the physical evidence, the bullet casings, the autopsy reports, the 67 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: crime scene photographs, the rest of the pieces that we 68 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 2: have in this quest to assemble some version of the 69 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: truth are probably lies. So let's go back to where 70 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: we were last week, May nineteenth, twenty seventeen. The murders 71 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 2: happened on a Friday evening. Tampa police responding to nine 72 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,239 Speaker 2: one one calls about an armed man at a strip 73 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 2: mall found eighteen year old Devon Arthur's holding three people 74 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: hostage a smoke shop. As he was being handcuffed, he 75 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 2: told the officers that his roommates were dead in his 76 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 2: apartment across the street and he'd be happy to show 77 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: them which unit it was if they would. 78 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: Drive him there. 79 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: As the police pulled up out front, another man walked 80 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 2: out the front door of the apartment and collapsed on 81 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: the ground in front of them sobbing hysterically. Brandon Russell 82 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: had arrived home from work minutes after the murders and 83 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 2: discovered the dead bodies of Andrew Anoshack and Jeremy Himmelman. Inside, 84 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: officers found not just the bodies of Devon's murder victims, 85 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 2: but Brandon's bomb making workshop. The crime scene was a 86 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 2: complicated one. When officers first arrived on the scene Friday evening, 87 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 2: they saw the bodies, of course, you couldn't miss them, 88 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 2: but they immediately noticed some other very concerning things lying 89 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 2: around the apartment. Geiger counters an unusually large number of batteries, 90 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 2: electric matches, piles of military gear, gas masks, bookshelves full 91 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 2: of white supremacist literature, a Nazi flag tacked to the wall, 92 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: a framed photograph of Timothy McVeigh, a backpack in the 93 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: living room with some kind of device inside that looked 94 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: like a bomb. Those first responding officers saw all of this, 95 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: and they got out of there in a hurry. There 96 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: was nothing they could do for the two men lying 97 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: dead in the bedroom. That much was very obvious, based 98 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: on the state of the bodies, so they secured the perimeter, 99 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 2: evacuated the neighboring apartments and waited for the experts to arrive. 100 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: All night. As Brandon and Devon sat waiting at the 101 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: police station, officers worked on the crime scene. Members of 102 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: the Tampa Police Department's Explosive Ordnance Disposal Team entered first 103 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: to try to figure out how volatile the situation was. 104 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: The only reports I have access to were written by 105 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: Tampa police officers, so I can only see what they 106 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 2: said about their interactions with agents from the FBI and ATF, 107 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: but based on the crime scene logs. Bomb technicians from 108 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: the FBI arrived a few hours later, and agents from 109 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 2: the ATF arrived after midnight. It was the middle of 110 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 2: the night by the time Devon and Brandon were interviewed 111 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: by a homicide detective in the early morning hours of 112 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: May twentieth. Brandon Russell asked for a lawyer. He'd been 113 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: talking for over an hour already, but when the FBI 114 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: agent in the room pressed him a little too hard 115 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 2: about what they might find if they searched his computer, 116 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: he didn't want to talk anymore. He wasn't under arrest, 117 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: He was there voluntarily. He wasn't being detained. They weren't 118 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: technically investigating him at all. He had just happened to 119 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: come home from work and stumble into a crime scene, 120 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: so if he didn't want to talk anymore, he was 121 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 2: free to go. Around six am, a Tampa police officer 122 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: drove him home. The explosives experts had finished their sweep 123 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 2: of the residents and signed off on it being safe 124 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 2: to enter, so detectives were starting to arrive to execute 125 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: search warrants. Brandon waited outside in the parking lot while 126 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: a detective entered the condo to find his car keys, 127 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: and then he was on his way. His apartment was 128 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 2: a crime scene and his mother lived in the Bahamas, 129 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: so he planned to drive to Palm Beach to stay 130 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 2: with his dad, or at least that's what he told 131 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 2: the FBI. There's a lot of uninteresting details here about 132 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 2: the memorandum of understanding between the FBI and the ATF, 133 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: but they share primary jurisdiction when investigating possible federal crimes 134 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: involving explosives, and both agencies have explosives experts. But ultimately, 135 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 2: the decision as to whether the materials found in the 136 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,599 Speaker 2: garage constituted a violation of federal law was up to 137 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: the ATF. And by the time the ATF briefed the 138 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: FBI on what they found, Brandon Russell was gone. The 139 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 2: federal criminal complaint was signed by a judge by midday 140 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: on Saturday, just a few hours after Brandon Russell drove off. 141 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: No problem though, right he told them where he was going, 142 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: and if he drove straight there, he should have already 143 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: arrived at his dad's house in Palm Beach. FBI agents 144 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: called Brandon's dad, a Palm Beach County Sheriff's deputy. But 145 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: not only was Brandon not there, his dad hadn't even 146 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 2: heard from him and had no idea where he might be. 147 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: So how did. 148 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: They find him? He could have gone anywhere. I couldn't 149 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 2: find anything in the court filings that indicated that they 150 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 2: had tried to ping his phone or that they got 151 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 2: a warrant for his banking information. They don't seem to 152 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: have tracked him down using his digital footprint. But they 153 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: found him pretty damn quick, and he was arrested the 154 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 2: very next day. Here's where we waded into versions of 155 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: the truth told by liars, where we start guessing about 156 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 2: what these breadcrumbs might mean. Last week I played some 157 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 2: clips for you of the police interrogation video recorded on 158 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 2: the night of the murders, and in that interview, Devon 159 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 2: Arthur's very quickly settled into a story that positioned him 160 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 2: as some kind of hero. He knew it was wrong 161 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: to kill, but he had to do it. It was the 162 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 2: only way to save thousands of innocent lives. And I 163 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: told you that. I think he was lying, but it's 164 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 2: a lie built around the truth. Devon shot his friends 165 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 2: because they made fun of him. He'd converted to Islam 166 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: a year earlier, and the neo Nazi community did not 167 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: take it well. He was pushed out of leadership in 168 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: Adam Woffin, a group he'd helped found. He was banned 169 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: from Iron March, the online Nazi message board where he'd 170 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: found friendship and a sense of belonging, but he stayed 171 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 2: involved with Adam Woffin, and he's stayed best friends with 172 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 2: Brandon Russell, the group's leader. He lived with Brandon. He 173 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: traveled with Brandon when he drove cross country to visit 174 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 2: Adam Woffin cells or to buy and sell weapons for 175 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 2: use by the group, And on the day of the murders, 176 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: he was chatting online all day with other members of 177 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 2: Adam Woffin. He was very much still involved, despite his 178 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 2: claims after the fact. But as he's sitting there in 179 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 2: this interrogation room, I think a few things are happening. Psychologically, 180 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: he's trying to find a way to rationalize his actions. 181 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 2: He needs to find a way to justify what he's done, 182 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 2: and he also realizes that he's made himself a very 183 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 2: nasty enemy. Killing two members of the Nazi terror cell 184 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: makes him a target of the Nazi terror cell. It 185 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 2: makes his family a potential target, and he knows what 186 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 2: kind of people he's just crossed, and he doesn't want 187 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 2: to go to jail, so he lands on a story 188 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 2: that potentially solves all three problems. If he tells the 189 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 2: cops everything, they'll take down Adam Woffen. Then he's safe 190 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 2: from retribution and he's a hero. He can convince himself 191 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: that he isn't a monster who shot his friends in 192 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 2: the head over a disagreement, and maybe he'll even get 193 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 2: a good deal in exchange for all this information and 194 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 2: won't have to go to prison. So I do think 195 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 2: he's lying about this being his actual motivation for the murders. 196 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: He wasn't trying to stop a terrorist attack. But the 197 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 2: lie came so easily because regardless of his intentions, when 198 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 2: he pulled that trigger, he may have actually ended up 199 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 2: stopping a terrorist attack. The things he told that detective 200 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: weren't made up. As he's sitting in that room rattling 201 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: off a list of explosive materials that he knows Brandon 202 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 2: kept in the apartment, the bomb squad is at the 203 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 2: crime scene and they're inventorying those exact items. And if 204 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: that part was true, maybe other parts of his story 205 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 2: were too. When I first saw where Brandon Russell was arrested, 206 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 2: I wasn't sure what to make of it. He's from 207 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: the Bahamas, so maybe he was going home. He has 208 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: Behamian citizenship, most of his family lives there. Maybe that's 209 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: where he was going and he just wanted to avoid 210 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: the airport. Admittedly, geography is not my strong suit, so 211 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: I thought it might make sense that you would take 212 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: a boat from the Keys to the Bahamas. And you 213 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: can sure, but it looks like typically you take a 214 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: ferry from Fort Lauderdale, not the Florida Keys. And then 215 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 2: you have to ask yourself if he was there because 216 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 2: he was trying to get home to the Bahamas. Why 217 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: had he picked up a friend first, Why had they 218 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: paid cash for two new rifles, and why hadn't he 219 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 2: contacted anyone to let them know where he was going. 220 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 2: He wasn't going home, And the cops found him as 221 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: quickly as they did because they knew exactly where to 222 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: look for him, because Devin told them. 223 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 3: He's planning on building mortar and firing it into a 224 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 3: There was a nuclear plant off the Cosa of Florida, 225 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 3: and it's off the COASA Miami and it's used to 226 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 3: power that entire city in Fort Lauderdale and that kind 227 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 3: of thing, and they're planning on firing that mortar of 228 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 3: nuclear materials in it at that plant into the coolank 229 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 3: things that are in the water. 230 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: The FBI alerted authorities in Monroe County, Florida, to be 231 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: on the lookout for Brandon Russell's vehicle. Deputy Torres didn't 232 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: find him in that Burger King parking lot by accident. 233 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: She was out looking for him. We had his picture. 234 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: We were told that he could possibly be. 235 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: Going up near Turkey Point for some type of terrorist act. 236 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: That's all we knew. 237 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 2: Turkey Point is the name of a nuclear power plant 238 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: when Brendan Russell was handcuffed outside that Burger King in 239 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 2: Key Largo. He wasn't alone. Documents filed in federal court 240 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: don't name his friend, but police reports from this initial 241 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: encounter do. He was traveling with another Adam Waffin member 242 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 2: named William Chantra. When Brendon left Tampa on Saturday morning, 243 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: he didn't drive to his dad's house in Palm b Instead, 244 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 2: he drove forty five minutes south to Bradenton, Florida, and 245 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: he knocked on his friend's front door. He'd been up 246 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 2: all night. He's still wearing his military uniform. Remember, he 247 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 2: discovered the bodies in his apartment when he got home 248 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: from work on Friday evening, and work in this case 249 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 2: was National Guard drill. He hasn't slept at all. He 250 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 2: doesn't even have his cell phone. But he drives to 251 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: Bradenton and he gets William Chantra out of bed and 252 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 2: he tells him what happened. You can't ever really say 253 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 2: what you would do in someone else's shoes in a 254 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: situation you've never found yourself in. But I can use 255 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 2: my imagination, and I think I would probably be pretty 256 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 2: overwhelmed at first. If I'm William Chantra. You know, your 257 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 2: friend is standing there on your front porch, exhausted and traumatized, 258 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 2: and he's telling you that these other two guys, both 259 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 2: friends of yours, are dead and he can't go home 260 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 2: because their dead bodies are in his apartment. I think 261 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 2: my next move would probably be to say, I don't know, 262 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 2: you know, hey, man, come inside, let me get you 263 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: some clean clothes, something to eat, maybe some tea. You know, 264 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: probably offer to let him stay on the couch for 265 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: a few days until he can figure something out. Something 266 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 2: like that, something that involved everyone going inside and sitting 267 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: on the couch. Like I said, that's not a situation 268 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 2: I've ever been in, So I don't know exactly what 269 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 2: I would do, but I can tell you with one 270 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: hundred percent, ironclad certainty what I would not do, and 271 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 2: that's quit my job, withdraw the entire balance of my 272 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 2: savings account, and get into that man's car heading out 273 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 2: of town. That just doesn't make any sense at all 274 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: to me, but that's exactly what William Chantra did. 275 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: He had three. 276 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: Thousand dollars in cash, and on their way out of town, 277 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 2: they stopped at the Chick fil A where he worked 278 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 2: to let them know he wouldn't be back, and then 279 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 2: they hit the road. There's not a lot of specificity 280 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 2: in the timeline, so I don't know what route they took. 281 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 2: But later that day they stopped at a bass pro 282 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 2: shop near Fort Lauderdale, and they spent most of Chantra's 283 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 2: cash on guns and ammunition. After a night in a hotel, 284 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:35,479 Speaker 2: they headed south again toward the Florida Keys. After his arrest, 285 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 2: Brandon wasn't in the mood to talk anymore. He admitted 286 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 2: that there were guns and ammunition in the car, but 287 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: when he was asked about Adam Woffin, he stopped talking. Chantra, 288 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 2: on the other hand, he was happy to chat. He 289 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 2: wasn't under arrest, and as far as I can tell, 290 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 2: he's never been charged with anything, and he had no 291 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: problem telling the officers about Adam Woffin. He was a member, 292 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 2: of course, and he'd met Brandon on Iron March, that 293 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: neo Nazi online forum. In this conversation with FBI agents, 294 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: he describes himself as a fascist, a national socialist, and 295 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 2: a neo Nazi. Believes he shares with his best friend 296 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 2: Brandon Russell. Sometimes they would go shooting together and they'd 297 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 2: recently been discussing the possibility of him moving to Tampa 298 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 2: into the condo with Brandon, Jeremy, Andrew, and Devin. They 299 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 2: were all friends and they were all members of Adam Woffin. 300 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 2: He helpfully explained that sure, most members of Adam Woffin 301 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 2: use iron March, but Adam Woffin is actually much more 302 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 2: exclusive than that. Not anybody can just join. In fact, 303 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 2: Brandon screen's potential members to ensure that they share the 304 00:20:54,640 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 2: group's ideology and aren't quote complete idiots, which is an 305 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 2: incredible statement, really, considering this is behavior that you might 306 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 2: expect from me, a complete idiot. That thing I said 307 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 2: a minute ago about how he quit his job because 308 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: he didn't know if he was ever coming home again. 309 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 2: We only know he felt that way because he said 310 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 2: it to an FBI agent. And for the second time 311 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: that weekend, the FBI was sitting across the table from 312 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 2: Brandon Russell. This time, though he was in custody, it 313 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 2: took a little bit of time to get through the 314 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: process of transferring him from one district to another. He 315 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 2: was arrested in South Florida, but his case was in 316 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 2: a court further north. Back home in Tampa, in the 317 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 2: Middle District of Florida. It was June eighth. By the 318 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 2: time the U. S. Marshals transported him from Miami to 319 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: Tampa to have his first real hearing. He'd been in 320 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 2: custody for more than two weeks already, and his attorney 321 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 2: asked that he'd be released on bond. His grandmother owned 322 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 2: a home in Orlando that she was willing to offer 323 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 2: us collateral, and both his mother and grandmother said they'd 324 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 2: watch over him to ensure he complied with any release conditions. 325 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 2: He had no criminal history, he was a member of 326 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 2: the National Guard, his father is a police officer, and 327 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: his attorney said, there's just no evidence that he's a 328 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 2: flight risk or a danger to the community, and the 329 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 2: judge agreed. The judge agreed that there was nothing going 330 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: on here that convinced him that this defendant should be 331 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 2: held in detention, and he granted the motion for bond. 332 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 2: But before he could sign the final order releasing Russell, 333 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: the government filed an urgent motion for a stay. They said, look, 334 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 2: just give us seventy two hours to write a more 335 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 2: detailed explanation. Let's brief this thing a little more thoroughly 336 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 2: before we do anything rash because this case never went 337 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 2: to trial. This frantic back and forth about whether or 338 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 2: not he would be released on bond is actually the 339 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: most detailed set of documents in the entire case. It 340 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 2: sounds like the government was maybe phoning it in at 341 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 2: that first attention hearing. They sketched out the details, but 342 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 2: they didn't offer a lot of evidence to demonstrate what 343 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 2: they were talking about. So when the judge initially granted 344 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: that motion for bond, he's saying things like, oh, the 345 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 2: government believes that the defendant is a purported leader of 346 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: a neo Nazi group. The government asserts that the materials 347 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 2: could be used to make a bomb. The government suggests 348 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 2: that the defendant is active on social media sites, but 349 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 2: doesn't proffer any particulars. It doesn't sound like they did 350 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: a great job presenting any evidence at all here. It 351 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 2: sounds like they figured the judge would hear the keywords 352 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 2: Nazi and bomb and not need to hear much more 353 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 2: than that. The judge granted them that three day pause 354 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 2: on the release order, and they returned to court later 355 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: that week for another hearing on the issue of bond, 356 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 2: and this time the prosecution brought the evidence The court 357 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: needed to see those materials found in the garage weren't 358 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 2: just some odds and ends that could be reasonably explained 359 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 2: away as model rocket supplies. There was a cooler full 360 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 2: of homemade hexamethylene, triperoxide diamine, a highly volatile explosive compound 361 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 2: with no safe or practical use. There were jars of 362 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 2: nitromethane and potassium chlorate, a coffee grinder full of some 363 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 2: unknown white powder. There were bags of potassium chloride, potassium nitrate, 364 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: iron oxide, and hexamine. He had several pounds of ammonium nitrate, 365 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 2: much of which was in bags still inside a box 366 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: addressed to him by name, and there littered amongst these 367 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: bomb making materials there were shell casings that he'd fitted 368 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 2: with fuses, a homemade setup that can be used to 369 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: detonate a bomb. In his bedroom, he had flyers for 370 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 2: his neo Nazi group on his dresser. There was a 371 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 2: framed photograph of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy mcveay. In his closet, 372 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 2: there were piles of military gear and cases of ammunition. 373 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 2: In the bedroom where his roommates were found dead, there 374 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: was a duffel bag full of homemade fuses. And handwritten 375 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 2: instructions for making a bomb. The prosecution also produced pages 376 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 2: of screenshots of posts that Brandon Russell had made on 377 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 2: Iron March, showing that he was actively recruiting for a 378 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 2: group that, in his own words, he calls fanatical and militant. 379 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 2: And this motion to revoke bond is the document where 380 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 2: we find that anecdote about his friend telling the FBI 381 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 2: agent that when he left home with Brandon he didn't 382 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 2: know if he would ever be back. After reviewing this evidence, 383 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 2: the judge changed its mind. He wrote, upon further consideration, 384 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: I am obliged to conclude that defendant's actions in response 385 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: to the discovery of the explosive materials and ongoing investigation, 386 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 2: past doubts on suggestions of defendant's innocent intentions. In his 387 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 2: order revoking Russell's bond, the judge gives voice to the 388 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 2: problem I was talking about at the top of the episode. 389 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 2: It's hard to know what's true. A lot of the 390 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 2: connective tissue here is based on claims made by Devon 391 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 2: Arthur's immediately after he was arrested for murder. The judge 392 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 2: watched the same video I did, and he came to 393 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: some of the same conclusions. A lot of what Devon 394 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 2: was saying looks like quote attempts by mister Arthur's to 395 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 2: rationalize or justify his unconscionable killing of two people. But 396 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 2: the judge also said there's no denying that some of 397 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 2: what Devon said is definitely true, writing quote Arthur's statements 398 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 2: of potential harm appear consistent with what has been revealed 399 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 2: so far about the defendant and the lifestyle he engaged. 400 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 2: In consistent with other circumstances, defendant is placed at the 401 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 2: head of a small neo Nazi group with a militant bent, 402 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 2: armed for violent confrontation and capable of executing on plans 403 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: to harm others or destroy property. 404 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: The judge was. 405 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: A little concerned that the government had yet to preduce 406 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 2: use any proof corroborating Devon's claims that there were internal 407 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 2: Adam Woffin chats containing explicit discussion of some kind of plot, 408 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 2: but he was satisfied at least that Brandon Russell should 409 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 2: remain in custody for the time being, and that was it. 410 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: Two months later, Brandon Russell changed his plea to guilty, 411 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 2: just days before he was scheduled to go to trial. 412 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 2: The government never produced any additional evidence because they didn't 413 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 2: have to. They never had to convince a jury that 414 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: Brandon Russell was going to do anything in particular with 415 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 2: those explosives. They never had to explain how they knew 416 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 2: they'd find him near that nuclear power plant, or why 417 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 2: he had a car full of guns and ammunition when 418 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,479 Speaker 2: they found him. A court never settled the question of 419 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 2: whether or not Devon Arthur's was telling the truth about 420 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 2: Brandon Russell's intentions. Brandon Russell pleaded guilty on the explosive 421 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 2: charges in September of twenty seventeen. A few months later, 422 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 2: in December, a seventeen year old Adam Woffin member in 423 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: Virginia shot and killed his ex girlfriend's parents. On January ninth, 424 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, Brandon Russell was sentenced to five years in prison. 425 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 2: One day later, on January tenth, police in California found 426 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 2: the body of Blaize Bernstein in a shallow grave. He'd 427 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 2: been murdered a week earlier by a member of Adam Woffin. 428 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 2: In a matter of months, three young men connected to 429 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 2: the group had killed and one of those killers is 430 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 2: in jail, insisting the group was planning terrorist attacks, but 431 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 2: the man he said was behind these plots was only 432 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: charged with possessing and improperly storing explosive materials. Brendon Russell's 433 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 2: criminal case was resolved in a matter of months, and 434 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 2: he was already serving his sentence before there was much 435 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 2: movement in the case against Devon Arthur's. That case dragged 436 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: on for years. The plea agreement was finally filed just 437 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 2: days before the sixth anniversary of the murders. Throughout this process, 438 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 2: though Devon Arthur's never denied committing the murders, but there 439 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 2: was a problem. He'd always been a bit of an 440 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 2: odd kid when he was in middle school. His parents 441 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 2: agreed in mediation during their divorce that he should be 442 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: evaluated by a specialist, but it doesn't look like either 443 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 2: of his parents ever followed through on that. On the 444 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 2: night of the murders, he told the detective that he 445 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 2: thought he probably needed to go to a hospital to 446 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: get some kind of treatment, and he wished he'd listen 447 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 2: sooner when people told him he needed help. He was 448 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 2: diagnosed with ADHD as a child, but there were no 449 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 2: other mental health diagnoses on his record prior to the murders. 450 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 2: Based on reports written by the doctors who evaluated him 451 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 2: in jail. He rapidly deteriorated after his arrest, but there 452 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 2: does appear to have been some pre existing mental illness 453 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 2: going on. In the interrogation video, he's a little disjointed, 454 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,719 Speaker 2: his speech is a little pressured, but he's lucid for 455 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 2: the most part, and his body language is pretty relaxed. 456 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 2: A doctor who evaluated him in twenty twenty wrote that 457 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 2: Devon had developed a habit of pressing his fists into 458 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 2: his neck when he felt anxious. He would apply pressure 459 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 2: to his throat until he felt dizzy, sometimes even losing consciousness. 460 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: A TV news camera in the courtroom recorded him doing 461 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 2: it during at least one hearing, and the doctor said 462 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 2: the behavior was compulsive. He couldn't stop doing it, even 463 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 2: when asked by the doctor to try. He also claimed 464 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 2: to be experiencing visual and auditory hallucinations, and said that 465 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 2: he would lie awake at night and communicate with the dead, 466 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 2: even on heavy doses of antipsychotics and sedatives. He exhibited 467 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 2: the rapid, tangential speech of someone who's experiencing mania for 468 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 2: the first few years after his arrest. Most of the 469 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 2: doctors who met with him, agreed he was experiencing severe 470 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 2: mental illness, and for several years the only movement on 471 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 2: his case was related to these competency evaluations. He was 472 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 2: moved back and forth between jail and a state mental 473 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 2: hospital a few times, and doctor after doctor met with 474 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 2: him and reported back to the court that he wasn't 475 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 2: competent to stand trial. Now, there's a difference here between 476 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 2: incompetent to stand trial and insane. Insane is not a 477 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 2: nice word, but it is a word with a particular meaning. 478 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: In a courtroom. 479 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 2: You're not going to go to a doctor and get 480 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 2: diagnosed insane. That's not really something we say anymore. But 481 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 2: in a courtroom, someone who is insane is not legally 482 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: responsible for their actions. That's something that you can argue 483 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 2: at trial. Being legally insane is not the same thing 484 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 2: as being mentally ill. You can be profoundly mentally ill 485 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 2: and still legally responsible for a crime. Someone who successfully 486 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 2: presents an insanity defense has to prove that at the 487 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 2: time of the offense they lacked the ability to understand 488 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 2: that what they were doing was wrong. They couldn't form 489 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 2: criminal intent because they just were not in the same 490 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 2: reality as the. 491 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: Rest of us. 492 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 2: And so at this stage of the case, before it 493 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 2: goes to trial, we're not talking about insanity. Insanity is 494 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 2: a trial issue, but before there can be a trial, 495 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 2: he has to have the mental capacity to understand a trial, 496 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: so they have to get him back to competycy. These 497 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 2: doctors aren't making any kind of finding about whether or 498 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 2: not he was insane at the time of the murders. 499 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 2: They're just saying that right now today he lacks the 500 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 2: ability to communicate effectively with his lawyer, to participate in 501 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 2: his own defense. He doesn't know what's going on in 502 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 2: the courtroom right now. But after a few years of treatment, 503 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 2: the doctors finally agree that he's competent to proceed and 504 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 2: they set the case for trial. In May of twenty 505 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 2: twenty three, the morning the trial was supposed to begin, 506 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 2: he signed a plea agreement. The state agreed to drop 507 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 2: the murder charges down from first degree to second degree murder, 508 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 2: and he agreed to plead guilty to all the charges. 509 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 2: Earlier this year, a reporter from Court TV interviewed Devon 510 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 2: in prison, and in this interview in twenty twenty five, 511 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 2: his story isn't any clearer than it was on the 512 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 2: night of the murders. He's stable now, he says, he 513 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 2: doesn't have hallucinations anymore, and he has his anger under control, 514 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 2: and he sees a psychiatrist in prison once a month, 515 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 2: and he still believes that he did what he had 516 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 2: to do. The reporter plays a clip for him of 517 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 2: his own statements the night of the murder, the part 518 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 2: where he says he did it to prevent the deaths 519 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 2: of even more people, and he asks him, do you 520 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 2: still stand by that claim, and Devin says that he does, 521 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 2: and he gets visibly angry with the reporter when he's 522 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 2: pressed on the issue of the way he's justifying these murders. 523 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,720 Speaker 1: The way you describe it, you're basically turning a brutal 524 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: murder into an act of heroism by saying that, by 525 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: saying that you were acting to save civilian lives from 526 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: future terrorist attacks. Well, I certainly was. 527 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 2: That's a way of adizing yourself, David. 528 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: I can see where that come from in that context. 529 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 3: And the thing is, I don't have any intent to 530 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 3: really hurt innocent people. 531 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 2: He goes as far as to say that he has 532 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,760 Speaker 2: sacrificed forty five years of his own life to stop 533 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 2: Adam Woffin. I won't rehash the thoughts I had about 534 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 2: those claims in the last episode. I don't believe him, 535 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 2: I said that, but I spent most of this week 536 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 2: thinking about it, turning it over in my head, and 537 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 2: reading and rereading the documents that I have, And I 538 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 2: found two strange statements buried in the police reports from 539 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 2: that night. The officer who drove him from the Strip 540 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 2: Mall to the apartment complex so he could show her 541 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 2: where the bodies were wrote that during that very brief trip, 542 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 2: I mean it's right across the street, He asks her 543 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 2: if the media would want to interview him, and as 544 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,720 Speaker 2: their pull into the parking lot in front of the condo, 545 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 2: he said, quote, it's just a shame I didn't get 546 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 2: to write my manifesto before this. Another report, written by 547 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 2: a different officer who later drove Devon from the crime 548 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 2: scene to the police station, says that Devon was talking 549 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 2: pretty much NonStop. From the portion of the report detailing 550 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,240 Speaker 2: Devon's statements immediately after being placed in a holding cell, 551 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,760 Speaker 2: the officer wrote, quote, Arthur's expressed how relieved he felt 552 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 2: because he fulfilled his mission and he can now have 553 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 2: peace Arthur's made several statements throughout that he was planning 554 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 2: to do something in the next week or so anyway, 555 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 2: and he was trying to pick a target. So which 556 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 2: is it? Which is it? Was he insane? Did he 557 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 2: snap because he was being bullied? Was he heroically preventing 558 00:37:54,640 --> 00:38:00,799 Speaker 2: a terrorist attack? Was this a premeditated ideological act for 559 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 2: what ideology exactly? The only person who really knows is Devin, 560 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 2: and he's still telling a version of this story that 561 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 2: doesn't add up. After last week's episode, I saw a 562 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,959 Speaker 2: listener comment online that they'd encountered Devin Arthur's many years 563 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 2: ago while playing Minecraft. Remember Devin converted to Islam in 564 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen when several members of his Minecraft server took 565 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 2: a joke a little too far and ended up meming 566 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 2: themselves into a bastardized version of Islam. I'm not a gamer. 567 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 2: I don't know anything about Minecraft, so I just took 568 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,839 Speaker 2: this as written and didn't try to look for more 569 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 2: information about that. That's just a culture I don't understand. 570 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 2: But this listener's message got me thinking. A lot of 571 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 2: people Devin was gaming with back then remember him. This 572 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 2: listener was not the only person to have ever posted 573 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:10,760 Speaker 2: online that they knew Devin from Minecraft. There are posts 574 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 2: where people are processing their shock that someone they'd known 575 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 2: from an online game turned out to be a murderer. 576 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 2: So I started looking for posts made in the immediate aftermath, 577 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 2: and I found some. First of all, it turns out 578 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 2: Minecraft is a lot more complicated than I thought. Don't 579 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 2: laugh at me. I don't play games, but I thought 580 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 2: it was just literally like Legos on the computer. I 581 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,800 Speaker 2: thought it was computer legos. I don't know. I didn't 582 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 2: know there was a whole culture with this encyclopedias where 583 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 2: of lore. Devin was active on a Minecraft server called Sivcraft, 584 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 2: where users play a modified version of the game that 585 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 2: includes elements of the game civilization. So in Sivcraft, users 586 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 2: banded together as nations and they do diplomacy. They go 587 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 2: to war against other nations in the game. I don't know. 588 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 2: Don't email me about Minecraft. I'm doing my best. I 589 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,240 Speaker 2: read a lot of stuff about games that I didn't understand. 590 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 2: He eventually joined a server called Intcraft, which has similar 591 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 2: gameplay dynamics to Sivcraft, but it was started by people 592 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 2: who met on four Chan, and it turns out Devin 593 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 2: used the same username for years, and his behavior was 594 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 2: weird enough that a lot of people who played sivcraft 595 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 2: remember him. I found four Chan posts going as far 596 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 2: back as twenty thirteen that appeared to be Devin talking 597 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 2: about Minecraft. By October of twenty fourteen, the same month 598 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 2: his dad kicked him out of the house for ordering 599 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 2: a copy of minecomf off Amazon, he's posting on four 600 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 2: Chan trying to recruit more users to his Minecraft server, 601 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 2: where he's playing as a Nazi. He posted an image 602 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 2: containing a swastika in what appears to be a historical 603 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 2: photograph of a mass grave, over which he's written an 604 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 2: antisemitic slogan. Now again, I'm showing my ignorance of Minecraft culture, 605 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:38,279 Speaker 2: I guess. But both int and Sivcraft have kept extensive 606 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 2: histories of their games. There are blogs and wikis and subreddits. 607 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 2: And as I was reading through one of the Intcraft wikis, 608 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 2: because there is more than one, I kept seeing the 609 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 2: name of a particular user. Devin was second in command 610 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 2: of a group of players that call themselves Striker Gang, 611 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 2: named after their leader, a man playing under the username 612 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:12,280 Speaker 2: Striker one two three abc. Interesting maybe, but not relevant. 613 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,800 Speaker 2: I'm sure Devin played with a lot of people online, 614 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 2: but just days after the murders, someone posted a link 615 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 2: to a news story about Devin on a subreddit for 616 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 2: a particular Minecraft server. Several reddit users replied, recalling strange 617 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,959 Speaker 2: run ins they'd had with him in the game. He'd 618 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,320 Speaker 2: been pretty well known for a couple of years already 619 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 2: for being a Nazi. People posted things like I remember 620 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 2: him being a little shit and sieve, but I didn't 621 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 2: realize he'd do anything irl, and I assumed those short 622 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 2: political rants were to come off as edgy. Yes, I 623 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 2: couldn't believe someone could on ironically be like that. But 624 00:42:55,120 --> 00:43:01,800 Speaker 2: one user posted something very odd. The account's been deleted, 625 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 2: but the posts remain. He killed two of my friends 626 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 2: and he planned on killing me. This is a very 627 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 2: surreal experience. In a follow up post, the same deleted 628 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 2: account confirms that he was friends with the victims in 629 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 2: real life, not on Minecraft off line. Another user replying 630 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 2: to that post wrote, hope you're doing all right despite 631 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 2: all this. Striker Striker Striker from Minecraft was in Adam 632 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 2: Woffen two. So I looked for Striker in the Iron 633 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 2: March leagues and wouldn't you know it, he's there too. 634 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,759 Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen, Striker posted on Iron March that he 635 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 2: was one of three Adam Woffen members in South Florida. 636 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 2: He signed up with his real email address from a 637 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 2: computer with an IP address in South Florida. Now I 638 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 2: have to hand it to him, this man has done 639 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 2: an incredible job wiping himself off the face of the Internet. 640 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 2: But he did leave just enough bread crumbs that appeared 641 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,360 Speaker 2: to connect that Minecraft user to the Iron March poster 642 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 2: to a thirty seven year old middle school teacher in 643 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 2: South Florida. That would have made him twenty eight back 644 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, which is actually quite old for an 645 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,760 Speaker 2: Adam Waffen member. Members tended to be in their teens 646 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,319 Speaker 2: or early twenties, maybe because that's the demographic that was 647 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 2: most online in the dark corners where the group recruited, right, 648 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 2: they're more impressionable, less likely to make good decisions, less 649 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,879 Speaker 2: likely to have their lives figured out. All that's true, 650 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 2: but it was also very intentional. Brandon Russell was explicit 651 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 2: about this. He preferred to recruit very young members, literal children, 652 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,880 Speaker 2: because a child can't be an FBI agent. If you 653 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 2: only recruit teenagers, you don't have to worry that any 654 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 2: of them are an undercover cop. But maybe Striker made 655 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 2: the cut because there was just no way an undercover 656 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 2: cop could spend that much time pretending to lead isis 657 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 2: on Minecraft. But back to that Reddit post, why did 658 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:41,840 Speaker 2: Striker think Devvin planned to kill him too? Another mysterious 659 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 2: Reddit post from a deleted account claims that the leader 660 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,800 Speaker 2: of the group talked to some people who knew Devon 661 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,760 Speaker 2: on Minecraft and they allegedly told him that the murders 662 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 2: were premeditated. The account is deleted and the post is 663 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 2: not very clear where this information came from, but someone 664 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 2: is claiming that Devin had been talking online about a 665 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 2: plan to kill not only Andrew Jeremy, but several other 666 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 2: members of the group too. I guess we'll never really know. 667 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,960 Speaker 2: As far as the hard facts go. Devin pleaded guilty 668 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 2: to murder. His story still shifts with every retelling. He 669 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 2: shot them because he was mentally ill, he shot them 670 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 2: because they were bullies, he shot them because he had 671 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:33,080 Speaker 2: to prevent a terrorist attack. But in one tiny moment, 672 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,920 Speaker 2: before those bodies were even cold, he told a police 673 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 2: officer that he'd been planning to carry out an attack 674 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,880 Speaker 2: that week, and he told another officer that he wished 675 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:49,279 Speaker 2: he'd found time to write his manifesto first. Maybe there 676 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,839 Speaker 2: is no truth here. There is no actual version of 677 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,319 Speaker 2: the truth, because what happened isn't something that can be 678 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,880 Speaker 2: made sense of. His story changes because even he doesn't 679 00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 2: know why he did what he did. In Minecraft, he 680 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:10,040 Speaker 2: role played sometimes as Isis, sometimes as a national socialist 681 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 2: on a mission to kill communists. Sometimes he was a 682 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 2: pony from the My Little Pony animated series. His online 683 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 2: fantasy bled into real life. It wasn't enough to pretend 684 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 2: to be an Isis or pretend to be a Nazi 685 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 2: in Minecraft. He founded a real life Nazi group, and 686 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,160 Speaker 2: then he got pushed out of leadership of his Nazi 687 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 2: group for swearing allegiance to Isis. When it came to 688 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:42,080 Speaker 2: his real world ideology, he believed all sorts of contradictory things. 689 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,239 Speaker 2: Maybe he really does believe entirely contradictory versions of his 690 00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:51,640 Speaker 2: own reality too. In the moment that he became a murderer, 691 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 2: maybe he believed all of it or none of it, 692 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 2: but he'd been thoroughly steeped in the violent rhetoric of 693 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 2: the Nazi group he helped create. Even if he does 694 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,120 Speaker 2: believe that he was only trying to stop the group's violence. 695 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,840 Speaker 2: That culture of violence is the reason that gun was 696 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 2: in his hands in the first place. In the end, though, 697 00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:24,600 Speaker 2: I guess he did kind of prevent something. Brandon Russell's 698 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,120 Speaker 2: bomb making workshop was discovered. He was arrested before he 699 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 2: got a chance to do whatever he may or may 700 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,880 Speaker 2: not have been planning to do in South Florida at 701 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,239 Speaker 2: that nuclear power plant. But Brandon Russell's commitment to kicking 702 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 2: off the race war only intensified during his years in prison, 703 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,800 Speaker 2: and within months of his release, he was back online 704 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,120 Speaker 2: chatting with impressionable young people about how to blow up 705 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,879 Speaker 2: electrical transformers. Brandon Russell was recently sentenced to twenty years 706 00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 2: in prison. Devon Arthur's is serving his forty five year 707 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,120 Speaker 2: sentence in Florida. He spends a lot of his time 708 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,640 Speaker 2: these days in the prison law library. As recently as 709 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,840 Speaker 2: last month, he was filing handwritten motions for post conviction relief, 710 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 2: claiming his attorneys failed him by not presenting more mitigating 711 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:19,000 Speaker 2: evidence at sentencing. For what it's worth, I don't think 712 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,879 Speaker 2: any version of the truth would have helped him there. 713 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,799 Speaker 2: Florida law didn't really give the judge any discretion to 714 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,000 Speaker 2: have handed down a lighter sentence even if mitigation evidence 715 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,880 Speaker 2: had been presented. But I'll keep an eye on the 716 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 2: docket just to see if he gets that evidentiary hearing 717 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:39,640 Speaker 2: he's been asking for. Maybe this time he'll have a 718 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:56,920 Speaker 2: new version of the truth. Weirdling the Guys see production 719 00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 2: of Coolsnow Media and iHeartRadio has researched, written, recorded by 720 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,960 Speaker 2: me Molly Coner. Our executive producers are Sophie Lecturement Van 721 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 2: Robert Evans. The show is edited by the wildly talented 722 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,880 Speaker 2: Rory Gagan. The theme music was composed by Brad Dickard. 723 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,439 Speaker 2: You can email me at Riddleyguys Podcast at gmail dot com. 724 00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,719 Speaker 2: I will definitely read it, but I probably won't answer it. 725 00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 2: It's nothing personal. You can exchange conspiracy theories about the 726 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,320 Speaker 2: show with other listeners on the Riddle the Guys subreddit. 727 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,960 Speaker 2: Just please don't post anything that's going to make you 728 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,120 Speaker 2: one of my weird little guys.