WEBVTT - #229 Jason Flom with Ronald Jacobsen 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.680 On January sixth, nineteen ninety, a twenty one year old 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:07.680 woman who will refer to as BT, was working at 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.000 a convenience store in Covington, Georgia, when around four am 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:14.520 she was abducted, forced into a truck, and repeatedly sexually 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.759 assaulted until she finally escaped ninety minutes later. At the 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.799 time of the assault, her ex boyfriend, Ron Jacobson, was 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:25.000 one hundred and fifty miles away in Chattanooga, Tennessee, with 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:28.680 his pregnant fiance and her mother. Over the course of 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.120 several detailed statements, BT maintained that she did not know 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.760 her attacker and that at one point during the abduction 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.000 she thought of fleeing to the home of her friend 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:41.320 Ron Jacobson when they were close by. Despite these statements 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.880 and the lack of any physical or forensic evidence inculpating Ron, 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.519 police ultimately persuaded Bet that she had just repressed the 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:53.960 memory of her friend Ron being her actual attacker. At trial, 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:58.600 Ron's defense failed to bring up the inconsistencies between BT's 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.960 many earlier statements to Lease and the story of Ron 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:05.839 being the perpetrator, and with DNA testing only in its infancy, 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:10.200 Ron was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. In 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.880 two thousand and three, Georgia enacted a law that allowed 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.839 for post conviction DNA testing, but the Rape Shield Law, 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.240 the law that is meant to protect rape survivors from 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.800 irrelevant character assassinations, was first used to bar the DNA 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:24.720 testing in this case, and then the introduction of the 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:29.640 results when they clearly excluded Ron as BT's attacker. Finally, 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.679 twenty twenty one, the newly elected district Attorney took one 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:38.520 look at Ron's case and dismissed all charges. This is 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:57.440 wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I'm your host, 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.400 Jason Flahm, and today's story is terrifying for a number 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.919 of reasons. First because of all the things that should 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.680 have pointed investigators away from Ron Jacobson, not Adam, but 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:13.560 even more so because, once DNA testing was available to 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.960 exonerate him, the DA fought tooth and nail both to 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.359 block that testing and then to maintain a conviction that 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:24.679 they knew was unjust. So, first of all, Ron, I'm 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.960 sorry you're here because of the circumstances that brought you here, 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.240 but I'm happy and honored to have you on the show, 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.400 Thank You, Thank You, and with Ron, it's one of 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:39.280 my favorite human beings. Ron's incredible attorney and champion who 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:43.080 is a driving force not just in the Innocence Project, 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.880 but also in the movement for justice across the board. 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.520 And of course I'm talking about a voice you'll recognize, 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:52.640 Vanessa Popkins of Vanessa Welcome back the Wrawful Conviction. 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:54.800 It's fantastic to be here. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.880 Okay, So before all this happened, Ron, you were engaged, 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.840 a Navy veteran and a father to be, living and 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.560 working between Georgia and Tennessee. Can you tell us a 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.600 little bit about your life before this terrible series of 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:09.560 events took place. 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.600 I was working as an autum mechanic and I was 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.560 doing real good, making good money. My girlfriend was pregnant 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.799 with our son and we were planning on getting married. 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.440 I rent a nice house in Georgia, you know, very 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.040 middle class, comfortable life. My life was really really come 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.560 together at that point when this happened. You know, everything 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.120 I worked for was gone. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:31.720 Right. 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.600 So you were renting a place in Georgia, but you 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.040 were kind of spending part of your time in Chattanooga, 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.320 Tennessee with your pregnant fiance. So things are sailing along 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.480 smoothly for now. Have you had any previous run ins 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:42.920 with the law? 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.440 Yes, that was one of the reasons I was in Georgia. 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.560 I had an auto theft charge back in the eighties, 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.120 and I was on parole and I was doing good 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.800 and you know, no violations, and I wanted to put 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.680 everything behind me and change get all with my life. 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.280 And before we get to the crime, a very important 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.080 fact in this case is that you and the victim, 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.840 this woman who we're referring to as BT, you two 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.360 had dated at some point prior to the incident, right. 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:14.160 Yes, I met her one time. Then about a couple 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:17.720 months later, a mother was dating my roommate and a 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.120 mother mentioned BT. She's working down here at a golden 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.000 pantry off five twenty. She would like to see you, 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.800 talk to you. So you know, I drove on down. 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.000 We talked, and when she got off for work, we 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.039 drove back to Atlanta, went out to Little five Points 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.240 to the Irish pub, and we started seeing each other. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.200 I want to say over October. 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.360 So you dated her for approximately how long run? 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.040 I want to say, four weeks? Three? Four weeks? All right? 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.920 So Vanessa, take us back to the incident itself on 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.920 the night of January sixth, nineteen ninety. It's an awful, 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.359 unspeakable crime, but just walk us through it, okay. 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.560 So BT was working overnight at the Golden Pantry convenience 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:04.359 store and abducted into a white, grayish truck and driven 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.840 up the interstate, where the assailant beat her, forced her 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.520 to perform oral sex at some point pulled over and 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:17.200 vaginally and anally raped her. The assailant kept driving and 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.479 actually ran out of gas, and so they were pulled 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.200 over on the side of the road and somebody stopped 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.839 seeing the car in distress on the side of the road, 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.880 and the assailant got into the car with this good 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.279 samartan and drove off, presumably to get gas. And so 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:37.640 bast saw this as her opportunity to escape. She ran 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.440 to a nearby house and ultimately knocked on the door. 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:43.640 The person who lived there, you know, opened it up 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.840 and saw BT, who was bloody and shaken up, and 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.400 called police. At this point, the Sheriff's office actually had 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.600 already arrived at the Golden Pantry because a customer had 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.360 come in noticed that nobody was in the store, saw 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.479 blood and the store in disarray, and so had called 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.440 the sheriff office and somebody from a convenience door across 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.640 the way had said that they saw BT getting into 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:10.520 this truck, and so she was immediately taken to the hospital. 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:15.880 They performed a sexual assault kit and recovered male DNA. 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:18.719 Yeah, and they found more evidence as well, right, a 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:22.320 bloody handprint on the wall, folding knife outside on the ground, 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.159 and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation did GBI performed blood 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.400 tests on the knife and the handprint, so they had 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.919 tons of evidence, imagine. They also had a description of 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.320 the truck. Now, was the assailant wearing a mask by chance? 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.440 No, But it's hard to know actually what really happened 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.920 because BT gave different stories to the police. So in 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.880 the week right after the crime, she talked to the 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.880 police on three different occasions, and the first time she 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.680 did she gave a really detailed statement, and she said 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.000 that she was working at the convenience door and that 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.599 a group had come in of two guys and two 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.960 girls earlier in the evening, and that one of the 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:08.400 men returned several hours later, and that was the person 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:12.920 who came behind the counter. And ultimately abducted her. And 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:19.240 in this statement she was extremely detailed and very specific 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:24.280 about the assailant being a stranger. She told police that 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.520 she said to him, I'm quoting, I said, what did 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:29.640 I ever do to you? I don't even know you, 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.600 she said, I just knew my own personal opinion. He 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.280 had come by the store, saw me earlier, got the 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.160 idea that I might be there alone, come in there. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.920 Sure enough, I wasn't so busy, So he took off 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.240 young girl alone three o'clock in the morning. 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:44.640 Why not. 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.760 So she's very detailed about this being a stranger, and 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:49.720 she even says it's this person who was with a 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.600 group earlier in the evening. And then she goes on 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.880 to give other statements. Two days after the attack, she 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.320 gives a description of her assailant. She talks about him 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.480 being five no five point ten. She wasn't clear if 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.320 he had tattoos. Of course at that time, Ron is 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:09.200 a half a foot taller. He's six'. Three he has multiple, 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:13.160 Tattoos so she's describing somebody who's Not. Ron and then 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.200 she gives a third, statement, right which is a written, 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.160 statement and the police take her on a drive through 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.240 of the route that the assailant had taken, her and 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:26.520 she points several locations where she was sexually assaulted and 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.200 walks through a lot of. Details she says in this 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.199 statement that at one of the stops during the attack 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.040 that she thought this could be an opportunity to, escape 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.120 and that she had a, Friend Ronald, jacobson who lived, 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.480 nearby and she, said you, know MAYBE i could escape 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.040 IF i have the, chance AND i could get help from. 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:48.320 HIM i, mean it's all. Craziness the victim grant that 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.000 she's traumatized for, sure but she said she was hoping 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:55.720 to escape to the home of none other Than Ron. 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.880 Jacobson how do we square that with the idea That Ron, 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.720 jacobson she later, says was the guy who was attacking. 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.800 HER i, mean how did they eventually convince her to identify? 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:11.680 Him and they interviewed her father as, WELL i, mean 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:13.080 how does that play into? 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:17.440 This so she told police that at the time that 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.640 the assailant came into the, store that there was somebody 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.080 else with her and she couldn't really remember who it, 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.560 was but she thought it Was Bob, knight who was 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.400 an older man who had worked at the store. Previously 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:34.520 but was friends with her. Father in the days following her, 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:39.000 Attack Bob knight and the father are talking and the father, says, 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.360 well you, know she was having some issues with this 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.960 guy she, Dated Ron. Jacobson maybe he did. It So 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:48.960 Bob knight Takes Ron jacobson's name to the police and, 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.280 SAYS i THINK i know who the assailant, Is Ron. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.480 Jacobson Bob knight had never Met Ron. Jacobson he's just 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.760 going off of this statement that the dad. Said so 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:04.320 police pull a picture Of Ron, jacobson HIS dmv photograph 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.800 and show it To Bob, knight who then, says that's 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:10.839 the PERSON i saw in the. Store BUT i mean 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:16.679 that lineup or photo show up procedure is just bonkers 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.720 and of, itself because they give Him Ron jacobson's driver's, 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.480 license which presumably has his name on, it and he, says, 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.920 yeah that's the. Guy and so based on, that the 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.280 police go back TO bt and say we think we 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.600 know who did. It It's Ron, jacobson and she, says, 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:36.080 no it. Wasn't so she's adamant that it's Not. Ron 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.960 and then the police want to polygraph. Her so you 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.680 HAVE bt saying, no it's Not, ron and the police 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.079 saying we don't believe, you and we're going to polygraph. 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.240 You i've never even seen this circumstance in any case 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.480 That i've worked, on where the police seek to polygraph 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.840 the victim because the victim is not identifying the person 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.920 who they believe is the. Suspect but that's what was happening. 0:10:59.920 --> 0:11:03.160 Here it turns out THAT, bt at the time of 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:07.040 her attack was newly, pregnant and so the polygrapher refused 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:12.800 to administer the, polygraph and instead the police consult with 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:17.560 a behavioral analyst at The Georgia bureau Of investigation that 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.520 says to, them go back to, her talk to. Her 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:25.199 sometimes victims repress, things tell her you know what, happened 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.880 and eventually she'll remember and she'll come forward with the. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.400 Information and so that's what. Happens they go back to 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.640 her and then she eventually says it Was. 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:39.120 Ron and then six days, Later january, Twelfth, ron they 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.720 brought you. In how did that? GO i, mean you 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.200 must have been shocked to even find yourself in that 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:45.080 situation in the first. 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.400 Place, WELL i was at work In atlanta and the 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.480 phone ring it was my pro, officer he, said, LOOK 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.040 i do you come into the office as fasts. POSSIBLE i, said, 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.600 Okay i'll be. There So i'm thinking to, myself, okay 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.600 it's a random your analysis and. Out SO i told 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:03.600 My BOSSTON i, said, LOOK i gotta. Go i'll be 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:06.680 back an. Hour SO i walk into THE pro. Office 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:10.160 ANOTHER pro officer walks in behind, me pushed me against the, 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.200 wall put me in a, handcuffs Says i'm under. Arrest so 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.080 Now i'm, wondering you, know for. WHAT i didn't violate 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.640 parole and they said, no for a sexual suit of 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.480 this VICTIM, Bt and SO i, EXPLAINED i, SAID bt, 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.400 NAH i was In tennessee With, janey my, Girlfriend and 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.920 they called The sheriff's department and THE gbi Agent sheriff's 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:32.960 department come, up picked me, up drove me back to 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.800 the county. Jail so it was a total shock to. 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.680 Me so police didn't record the, interrogation but nonetheless they 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.360 would have had an issue to police report that was 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.840 written in the first, person as If ron had written it, 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.319 right and then of course to double down on this obvious. 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.760 Malfeasans they also never showed a copy of the report 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.720 To ron or his team to determine whether it was 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.440 accurate or. Not And ron was arrested the same, day 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.680 charged with aggravated side of me, kidnapping with bodily injury 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.040 and bated. Assault and then six months Later ron went 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.280 to trial In Newton County Superior court and in the 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.240 opening state with the, prosecutor now get this, Okay the 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:13.480 prosecutor acknowledged that the case was. Problematic he said that 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.560 the police quote went back TO bt and kind of 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.000 told her who it, was and at that point in, 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.640 time she, said, yes it was, him and she went 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.480 and told the whole same story, again but just supplied 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.880 his name at this point in time. Unquote so from 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.960 what we already know of the, investigation that summary is 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.720 misleading at. Best there, was of, course zero physical or 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.800 forensic evidence Tying ron to the. Crime so it comes 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.960 down to the problematic testimonies To Bob knight AND, bt 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.800 to which the jury was simply not aware of how 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.400 these pieces of evidence were. Gathered, Now night testified that 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.120 he Recognized ron as the man who came into the 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.760 store that night as he was, leaving and THEN bt 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.000 went ahead and identified You ron as her, attacker and 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.280 she said she didn't immediately to fire because you had 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.640 threatened to kill her if she. Did, Now, vanessa go 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:04.880 ahead and tell us about the defense. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:10.640 HERE bt is never really confronted with the detailed statements 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.040 that she gave implicating somebody. Else it is mentioned at 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.120 trial that she initially didn't say it Was, ron and 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.040 she says it was because you, know she was scared 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.000 of her. Life but just not saying it Was ron 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.080 at the beginning could mean you didn't say it in 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.120 the first hour or. Two it doesn't mean you. Know 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:31.760 and the jury never was told you gave these really detailed, statements. 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.200 Right you talked about even going To ron for. Help 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.120 you talked about this group of people coming in and 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.160 one of the guys coming, back and you saying to, 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.320 HIM i don't even know. YOU i, mean none of 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.520 that came out to the. Jury so there's two, Possibilities, 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:48.080 right it wasn't turned over and either the police buried 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.480 it or the prosecution buried, it or it was turned 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:55.000 over and his defense attorneys failed to use. IT i 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.760 don't have the answer to, that as the records aren't, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.880 perfect and Because ron's lawyer was so bad that it 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.680 is possible that he didn't use it and the witnesses 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.320 That ron had in his favor to say that he 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.760 was one hundred and fifty miles away when this. Happened 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.880 it was his girlfriend at the time who was pregnant her. 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.960 Mother they were WATCHING tv at two thirty three in the. 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.000 Morning he's hours away from where this crime happened at 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.800 shortly probably after four. Am and there's reason that they 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.200 would remember this. Night it was just within days of 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.640 his girlfriend's. Birthday he had gone up there that. Weekend 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.160 he brought our car as a, president and so it's 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.400 just none of that really came out at trial to 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.520 really add credibility and show why these people who were 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.600 testifying and had been With, ron you, know why they 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.000 were so believable and, credible and that just didn't come. 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.280 Out it was just like five questions and you're. Done 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:52.200 the defense That ron. HAD i, mean this is where 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.080 you feel like you're in a, movie like this is 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.880 a horror. Movie you're From, brooklyn you're stuck basically In. 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:03.680 Georgia you're now facing, trial and your lawyer is scared 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.320 of his own shadow or just doesn't. Care AND i 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.640 think one just being an outsider in this, place which 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.680 is you, know close To, atlanta but world's away. Right 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.760 even on his booking sheet there was a line for 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:23.040 deformities and the deformity listed Is brooklyn Accent. 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.280 Ron what are your recollections of the? 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:30.600 Trial stranger in a strange. Land my trial attorney came 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.880 to see, ME i believe maybe twice at the most. 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.920 Repair he never talked to none of my witnesses till 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.520 the day to. Trial so the night before my attorney 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:43.320 comes walking down to the jail and he, said we 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.720 got the trial in the. Morning try to get a 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.040 haircut and cut your. BEARD i got an old rusty. 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.160 RAZOR i trimmed my beard. Off so the day to, 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.600 TRIAL i go. In now you got this prosecutor Ton 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:57.960 jerry look at. Him he tried to change his. Appearance 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.360 he shaved his beard. Off so basically everything my trial 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:07.160 attorney did was. Negative when he HAD bt on the witness, 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.160 stand he popped the question off as, well watch your relationship. 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.520 Tonight the district Attorney JOHN i you, know he jumped 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.120 up said, whoa, whoa. Whoa you told the judge get 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.400 the jury out of, here and they disciplined my. Attorney 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:22.600 they brought up the rape. Shield you're not supposed to 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:27.520 ask no kind of sexual, relationships pass, relationships but you 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.600 know it was too. Late the jury already heard this, 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.359 question so they bring it, back and from that point, 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.000 on my attorney sat there and drew little sailboats on his, 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.199 pad so it was a foregone. Conclusion you KNOW i 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:39.760 was going to get. 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:45.000 Convicted he drew little sailboats on his, pass and you're 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.000 sitting there watching him do. This so you've got like 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.600 a split screen horror. Show you've got these people up 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.040 there telling all kinds of lies about, you and you've 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.199 got the one person who's there that's supposed to be 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:59.720 your last line of, defense really drawing fucking sailboats on a. 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.760 Pass it's really. Not and then of course it gets 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.080 worse because On june, twelfth nineteen, ninety the jury convicted 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.200 you of, aggravatedstomy can have a bodily injury and aggravated 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.119 a sodden sense of your life in. Prison it was 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:11.480 a horror. 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.120 Show THEN i took the stand in my own. Defense 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.840 my trial attorney you never really asked me any, questions 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.919 but then to prosecute he told the jury EVERYTHING i. 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.439 Said i'm a pathological, liar habitual. LIAR i brought up 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.760 about the, police you, know with the, statements and, oh 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.280 so you're accusing the police of being liars when you're the. 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:35.280 Liar but you know small town politics and HERE i, 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:39.040 am you, know From, brooklyn Outsider New, yorker and this 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.879 is what. HAPPENS a gross mischaracter justice cost me thirty, 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.119 years eight, months and thirteen days of my. 0:18:45.200 --> 0:19:00.400 Life this episode is underwritten BY, aig a leading globaling insurance, 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.280 company and By, accenture a global professional services company with 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:08.719 leading capabilities in, digital cloud and. Security working to reform 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.919 the criminal justice system is a key pillar of THE 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:14.399 aig Pro Bono, program which provides free legal services and 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.800 other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals most in 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.200 need as part Of eccentsure's commitment to racial and civil. 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:26.639 Justice Accenture's Legal Access program provides pro bono legal services 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.800 in partnership with more than forty, organizations bringing meaningful change 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:32.440 to people and communities. 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:42.119 Worldwide WHEN i first went to, prison it's basically like 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.080 a wild dog. Pack everybody wants to be an alpha, 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.560 male so you don't trust. Nobody you got to watch your, 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.280 back you got to watch what you, say and the 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.400 guards you, know they don't care people getting killed there every, 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.840 week no prosecution on them because you got twenty year 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.080 old kids with life. Sentences no whole again, now so 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.680 they're going to do what they. Want when you first get, 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.320 convicted you go through the. Stage it's a lot of, 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:10.400 anger anger at the. World then it's. Acceptance you say to, Yourself, 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:12.520 okay this happened to, me what are you going to 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.560 do about? It so now you educate, yourself go to 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.960 the law, library you start, reading start. Researching AND i 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.800 happened to be watching yoj trial And i've Seen barryshack 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.240 talking ABOUT. DNA i talked to my. MOM i, said 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.520 look THAT dna is going to clear me one. Day 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.560 SO i started. Researching i've Seen barryshak wrote a, Book Actual, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.520 innocence so my mom sent it to. ME i read 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.919 this book like sixteen. Times and at the, time around 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.560 two thousand and, Three georgia passed the law from post 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:45.200 CONVICTION dna. Testing SO i sat, down wrote thirteen fifteen 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:49.080 page letter The Georgia Innocent project and The Innocent project 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.360 In New york And. Georgia people wrote me right, back said, 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.280 okay we'll help. You we'll take your, case send us 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.520 you transcripts and. Everything SO i. Did about a year goes, 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.720 by they send everything, back says at this, time we 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.639 can't do nothing for, you but your case is still. 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.920 Open ten years go. By it was in twenty. Thirteen 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:10.879 out of the, BLUE i get a. Letter go up 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.320 to the mail, room get legal, mail and here it 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.639 is a letter from THE Us project says we're going 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:18.879 to accept your. Case and it was just like a 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:21.520 wy to load off my. Back SO i run over 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.040 to Low, library get. Everything note OF us gets straight into, 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:27.760 mail And i've been working With vanessa seven eight years. 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:29.520 Now it's been an uphill. 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:34.119 Battle, yeah uphill sounds about, right because from WHAT i 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:36.919 understand is that THIS da who's, now by the, way a, 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:41.000 judge her Name's, leylasan she fought both to disallow THE 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:44.280 dna testing to begin with and then to disallow the 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.240 admission of results that they knew would have cleared, you 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.360 which is just freaking. Nuts So, vanessa can you tell 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.240 us about the fight against THIS Da, leilazan who was 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:56.679 just hell bent on maintaining this awful. 0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:01.680 Injustice THE dna test results that we obtained Clearing ron 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:06.400 came back in twenty, seventeen and when we got those, 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:11.600 results THE Da Opposed relief fought against a new, trial 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:16.920 and her primary argument Was ron could not use these 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:21.640 test results to prove his innocence because the rape shield 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:26.320 law prevented him from using THE dna to secure his. 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.479 Exoneration so the rape shield law is a law that 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:33.520 has been enacted to protect victims of sexual assault from 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.600 defense attorneys going in and trying to, say, oh, well 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:38.919 you know you slept with twenty other people and so 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:42.600 you weren't really sexually, assaulted or you, consented or try 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:49.359