Speaker 1: On January sixth, nineteen ninety, a twenty one year old
Speaker 1: woman who will refer to as BT, was working at
Speaker 1: a convenience store in Covington, Georgia, when around four am
Speaker 1: she was abducted, forced into a truck, and repeatedly sexually
Speaker 1: assaulted until she finally escaped ninety minutes later. At the
Speaker 1: time of the assault, her ex boyfriend, Ron Jacobson, was
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty miles away in Chattanooga, Tennessee, with
Speaker 1: his pregnant fiance and her mother. Over the course of
Speaker 1: several detailed statements, BT maintained that she did not know
Speaker 1: her attacker and that at one point during the abduction
Speaker 1: she thought of fleeing to the home of her friend
Speaker 1: Ron Jacobson when they were close by. Despite these statements
Speaker 1: and the lack of any physical or forensic evidence inculpating Ron,
Speaker 1: police ultimately persuaded Bet that she had just repressed the
Speaker 1: memory of her friend Ron being her actual attacker. At trial,
Speaker 1: Ron's defense failed to bring up the inconsistencies between BT's
Speaker 1: many earlier statements to Lease and the story of Ron
Speaker 1: being the perpetrator, and with DNA testing only in its infancy,
Speaker 1: Ron was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, Georgia enacted a law that allowed
Speaker 1: for post conviction DNA testing, but the Rape Shield Law,
Speaker 1: the law that is meant to protect rape survivors from
Speaker 1: irrelevant character assassinations, was first used to bar the DNA
Speaker 1: testing in this case, and then the introduction of the
Speaker 1: results when they clearly excluded Ron as BT's attacker. Finally,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, the newly elected district Attorney took one
Speaker 1: look at Ron's case and dismissed all charges. This is
Speaker 1: wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Jason Flahm, and today's story is terrifying for a number
Speaker 1: of reasons. First because of all the things that should
Speaker 1: have pointed investigators away from Ron Jacobson, not Adam, but
Speaker 1: even more so because, once DNA testing was available to
Speaker 1: exonerate him, the DA fought tooth and nail both to
Speaker 1: block that testing and then to maintain a conviction that
Speaker 1: they knew was unjust. So, first of all, Ron, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry you're here because of the circumstances that brought you here,
Speaker 1: but I'm happy and honored to have you on the show,
Speaker 1: Thank You, Thank You, and with Ron, it's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite human beings. Ron's incredible attorney and champion who
Speaker 1: is a driving force not just in the Innocence Project,
Speaker 1: but also in the movement for justice across the board.
Speaker 1: And of course I'm talking about a voice you'll recognize,
Speaker 1: Vanessa Popkins of Vanessa Welcome back the Wrawful Conviction.
Speaker 2: It's fantastic to be here.
Speaker 1: Okay, So before all this happened, Ron, you were engaged,
Speaker 1: a Navy veteran and a father to be, living and
Speaker 1: working between Georgia and Tennessee. Can you tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about your life before this terrible series of
Speaker 1: events took place.
Speaker 3: I was working as an autum mechanic and I was
Speaker 3: doing real good, making good money. My girlfriend was pregnant
Speaker 3: with our son and we were planning on getting married.
Speaker 3: I rent a nice house in Georgia, you know, very
Speaker 3: middle class, comfortable life. My life was really really come
Speaker 3: together at that point when this happened. You know, everything
Speaker 3: I worked for was gone.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So you were renting a place in Georgia, but you
Speaker 1: were kind of spending part of your time in Chattanooga,
Speaker 1: Tennessee with your pregnant fiance. So things are sailing along
Speaker 1: smoothly for now. Have you had any previous run ins
Speaker 1: with the law?
Speaker 3: Yes, that was one of the reasons I was in Georgia.
Speaker 3: I had an auto theft charge back in the eighties,
Speaker 3: and I was on parole and I was doing good
Speaker 3: and you know, no violations, and I wanted to put
Speaker 3: everything behind me and change get all with my life.
Speaker 1: And before we get to the crime, a very important
Speaker 1: fact in this case is that you and the victim,
Speaker 1: this woman who we're referring to as BT, you two
Speaker 1: had dated at some point prior to the incident, right.
Speaker 3: Yes, I met her one time. Then about a couple
Speaker 3: months later, a mother was dating my roommate and a
Speaker 3: mother mentioned BT. She's working down here at a golden
Speaker 3: pantry off five twenty. She would like to see you,
Speaker 3: talk to you. So you know, I drove on down.
Speaker 3: We talked, and when she got off for work, we
Speaker 3: drove back to Atlanta, went out to Little five Points
Speaker 3: to the Irish pub, and we started seeing each other.
Speaker 3: I want to say over October.
Speaker 1: So you dated her for approximately how long run?
Speaker 3: I want to say, four weeks? Three? Four weeks? All right?
Speaker 1: So Vanessa, take us back to the incident itself on
Speaker 1: the night of January sixth, nineteen ninety. It's an awful,
Speaker 1: unspeakable crime, but just walk us through it, okay.
Speaker 2: So BT was working overnight at the Golden Pantry convenience
Speaker 2: store and abducted into a white, grayish truck and driven
Speaker 2: up the interstate, where the assailant beat her, forced her
Speaker 2: to perform oral sex at some point pulled over and
Speaker 2: vaginally and anally raped her. The assailant kept driving and
Speaker 2: actually ran out of gas, and so they were pulled
Speaker 2: over on the side of the road and somebody stopped
Speaker 2: seeing the car in distress on the side of the road,
Speaker 2: and the assailant got into the car with this good
Speaker 2: samartan and drove off, presumably to get gas. And so
Speaker 2: bast saw this as her opportunity to escape. She ran
Speaker 2: to a nearby house and ultimately knocked on the door.
Speaker 2: The person who lived there, you know, opened it up
Speaker 2: and saw BT, who was bloody and shaken up, and
Speaker 2: called police. At this point, the Sheriff's office actually had
Speaker 2: already arrived at the Golden Pantry because a customer had
Speaker 2: come in noticed that nobody was in the store, saw
Speaker 2: blood and the store in disarray, and so had called
Speaker 2: the sheriff office and somebody from a convenience door across
Speaker 2: the way had said that they saw BT getting into
Speaker 2: this truck, and so she was immediately taken to the hospital.
Speaker 2: They performed a sexual assault kit and recovered male DNA.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they found more evidence as well, right, a
Speaker 1: bloody handprint on the wall, folding knife outside on the ground,
Speaker 1: and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation did GBI performed blood
Speaker 1: tests on the knife and the handprint, so they had
Speaker 1: tons of evidence, imagine. They also had a description of
Speaker 1: the truck. Now, was the assailant wearing a mask by chance?
Speaker 2: No, But it's hard to know actually what really happened
Speaker 2: because BT gave different stories to the police. So in
Speaker 2: the week right after the crime, she talked to the
Speaker 2: police on three different occasions, and the first time she
Speaker 2: did she gave a really detailed statement, and she said
Speaker 2: that she was working at the convenience door and that
Speaker 2: a group had come in of two guys and two
Speaker 2: girls earlier in the evening, and that one of the
Speaker 2: men returned several hours later, and that was the person
Speaker 2: who came behind the counter. And ultimately abducted her. And
Speaker 2: in this statement she was extremely detailed and very specific
Speaker 2: about the assailant being a stranger. She told police that
Speaker 2: she said to him, I'm quoting, I said, what did
Speaker 2: I ever do to you? I don't even know you,
Speaker 2: she said, I just knew my own personal opinion. He
Speaker 2: had come by the store, saw me earlier, got the
Speaker 2: idea that I might be there alone, come in there.
Speaker 2: Sure enough, I wasn't so busy, So he took off
Speaker 2: young girl alone three o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 4: Why not.
Speaker 2: So she's very detailed about this being a stranger, and
Speaker 2: she even says it's this person who was with a
Speaker 2: group earlier in the evening. And then she goes on
Speaker 2: to give other statements. Two days after the attack, she
Speaker 2: gives a description of her assailant. She talks about him
Speaker 2: being five no five point ten. She wasn't clear if
Speaker 2: he had tattoos. Of course at that time, Ron is
Speaker 2: a half a foot taller. He's six'. Three he has multiple,
Speaker 2: Tattoos so she's describing somebody who's Not. Ron and then
Speaker 2: she gives a third, statement, right which is a written,
Speaker 2: statement and the police take her on a drive through
Speaker 2: of the route that the assailant had taken, her and
Speaker 2: she points several locations where she was sexually assaulted and
Speaker 2: walks through a lot of. Details she says in this
Speaker 2: statement that at one of the stops during the attack
Speaker 2: that she thought this could be an opportunity to, escape
Speaker 2: and that she had a, Friend Ronald, jacobson who lived,
Speaker 2: nearby and she, said you, know MAYBE i could escape
Speaker 2: IF i have the, chance AND i could get help from.
Speaker 1: HIM i, mean it's all. Craziness the victim grant that
Speaker 1: she's traumatized for, sure but she said she was hoping
Speaker 1: to escape to the home of none other Than Ron.
Speaker 1: Jacobson how do we square that with the idea That Ron,
Speaker 1: jacobson she later, says was the guy who was attacking.
Speaker 1: HER i, mean how did they eventually convince her to identify?
Speaker 1: Him and they interviewed her father as, WELL i, mean
Speaker 1: how does that play into?
Speaker 2: This so she told police that at the time that
Speaker 2: the assailant came into the, store that there was somebody
Speaker 2: else with her and she couldn't really remember who it,
Speaker 2: was but she thought it Was Bob, knight who was
Speaker 2: an older man who had worked at the store. Previously
Speaker 2: but was friends with her. Father in the days following her,
Speaker 2: Attack Bob knight and the father are talking and the father, says,
Speaker 2: well you, know she was having some issues with this
Speaker 2: guy she, Dated Ron. Jacobson maybe he did. It So
Speaker 2: Bob knight Takes Ron jacobson's name to the police and,
Speaker 2: SAYS i THINK i know who the assailant, Is Ron.
Speaker 2: Jacobson Bob knight had never Met Ron. Jacobson he's just
Speaker 2: going off of this statement that the dad. Said so
Speaker 2: police pull a picture Of Ron, jacobson HIS dmv photograph
Speaker 2: and show it To Bob, knight who then, says that's
Speaker 2: the PERSON i saw in the. Store BUT i mean
Speaker 2: that lineup or photo show up procedure is just bonkers
Speaker 2: and of, itself because they give Him Ron jacobson's driver's,
Speaker 2: license which presumably has his name on, it and he, says,
Speaker 2: yeah that's the. Guy and so based on, that the
Speaker 2: police go back TO bt and say we think we
Speaker 2: know who did. It It's Ron, jacobson and she, says,
Speaker 2: no it. Wasn't so she's adamant that it's Not. Ron
Speaker 2: and then the police want to polygraph. Her so you
Speaker 2: HAVE bt saying, no it's Not, ron and the police
Speaker 2: saying we don't believe, you and we're going to polygraph.
Speaker 2: You i've never even seen this circumstance in any case
Speaker 2: That i've worked, on where the police seek to polygraph
Speaker 2: the victim because the victim is not identifying the person
Speaker 2: who they believe is the. Suspect but that's what was happening.
Speaker 2: Here it turns out THAT, bt at the time of
Speaker 2: her attack was newly, pregnant and so the polygrapher refused
Speaker 2: to administer the, polygraph and instead the police consult with
Speaker 2: a behavioral analyst at The Georgia bureau Of investigation that
Speaker 2: says to, them go back to, her talk to. Her
Speaker 2: sometimes victims repress, things tell her you know what, happened
Speaker 2: and eventually she'll remember and she'll come forward with the.
Speaker 2: Information and so that's what. Happens they go back to
Speaker 2: her and then she eventually says it Was.
Speaker 1: Ron and then six days, Later january, Twelfth, ron they
Speaker 1: brought you. In how did that? GO i, mean you
Speaker 1: must have been shocked to even find yourself in that
Speaker 1: situation in the first.
Speaker 3: Place, WELL i was at work In atlanta and the
Speaker 3: phone ring it was my pro, officer he, said, LOOK
Speaker 3: i do you come into the office as fasts. POSSIBLE i, said,
Speaker 3: Okay i'll be. There So i'm thinking to, myself, okay
Speaker 3: it's a random your analysis and. Out SO i told
Speaker 3: My BOSSTON i, said, LOOK i gotta. Go i'll be
Speaker 3: back an. Hour SO i walk into THE pro. Office
Speaker 3: ANOTHER pro officer walks in behind, me pushed me against the,
Speaker 3: wall put me in a, handcuffs Says i'm under. Arrest so
Speaker 3: Now i'm, wondering you, know for. WHAT i didn't violate
Speaker 3: parole and they said, no for a sexual suit of
Speaker 3: this VICTIM, Bt and SO i, EXPLAINED i, SAID bt,
Speaker 3: NAH i was In tennessee With, janey my, Girlfriend and
Speaker 3: they called The sheriff's department and THE gbi Agent sheriff's
Speaker 3: department come, up picked me, up drove me back to
Speaker 3: the county. Jail so it was a total shock to.
Speaker 1: Me so police didn't record the, interrogation but nonetheless they
Speaker 1: would have had an issue to police report that was
Speaker 1: written in the first, person as If ron had written it,
Speaker 1: right and then of course to double down on this obvious.
Speaker 1: Malfeasans they also never showed a copy of the report
Speaker 1: To ron or his team to determine whether it was
Speaker 1: accurate or. Not And ron was arrested the same, day
Speaker 1: charged with aggravated side of me, kidnapping with bodily injury
Speaker 1: and bated. Assault and then six months Later ron went
Speaker 1: to trial In Newton County Superior court and in the
Speaker 1: opening state with the, prosecutor now get this, Okay the
Speaker 1: prosecutor acknowledged that the case was. Problematic he said that
Speaker 1: the police quote went back TO bt and kind of
Speaker 1: told her who it, was and at that point in,
Speaker 1: time she, said, yes it was, him and she went
Speaker 1: and told the whole same story, again but just supplied
Speaker 1: his name at this point in time. Unquote so from
Speaker 1: what we already know of the, investigation that summary is
Speaker 1: misleading at. Best there, was of, course zero physical or
Speaker 1: forensic evidence Tying ron to the. Crime so it comes
Speaker 1: down to the problematic testimonies To Bob knight AND, bt
Speaker 1: to which the jury was simply not aware of how
Speaker 1: these pieces of evidence were. Gathered, Now night testified that
Speaker 1: he Recognized ron as the man who came into the
Speaker 1: store that night as he was, leaving and THEN bt
Speaker 1: went ahead and identified You ron as her, attacker and
Speaker 1: she said she didn't immediately to fire because you had
Speaker 1: threatened to kill her if she. Did, Now, vanessa go
Speaker 1: ahead and tell us about the defense.
Speaker 2: HERE bt is never really confronted with the detailed statements
Speaker 2: that she gave implicating somebody. Else it is mentioned at
Speaker 2: trial that she initially didn't say it Was, ron and
Speaker 2: she says it was because you, know she was scared
Speaker 2: of her. Life but just not saying it Was ron
Speaker 2: at the beginning could mean you didn't say it in
Speaker 2: the first hour or. Two it doesn't mean you. Know
Speaker 2: and the jury never was told you gave these really detailed, statements.
Speaker 2: Right you talked about even going To ron for. Help
Speaker 2: you talked about this group of people coming in and
Speaker 2: one of the guys coming, back and you saying to,
Speaker 2: HIM i don't even know. YOU i, mean none of
Speaker 2: that came out to the. Jury so there's two, Possibilities,
Speaker 2: right it wasn't turned over and either the police buried
Speaker 2: it or the prosecution buried, it or it was turned
Speaker 2: over and his defense attorneys failed to use. IT i
Speaker 2: don't have the answer to, that as the records aren't,
Speaker 2: perfect and Because ron's lawyer was so bad that it
Speaker 2: is possible that he didn't use it and the witnesses
Speaker 2: That ron had in his favor to say that he
Speaker 2: was one hundred and fifty miles away when this. Happened
Speaker 2: it was his girlfriend at the time who was pregnant her.
Speaker 2: Mother they were WATCHING tv at two thirty three in the.
Speaker 2: Morning he's hours away from where this crime happened at
Speaker 2: shortly probably after four. Am and there's reason that they
Speaker 2: would remember this. Night it was just within days of
Speaker 2: his girlfriend's. Birthday he had gone up there that. Weekend
Speaker 2: he brought our car as a, president and so it's
Speaker 2: just none of that really came out at trial to
Speaker 2: really add credibility and show why these people who were
Speaker 2: testifying and had been With, ron you, know why they
Speaker 2: were so believable and, credible and that just didn't come.
Speaker 2: Out it was just like five questions and you're. Done
Speaker 2: the defense That ron. HAD i, mean this is where
Speaker 2: you feel like you're in a, movie like this is
Speaker 2: a horror. Movie you're From, brooklyn you're stuck basically In.
Speaker 2: Georgia you're now facing, trial and your lawyer is scared
Speaker 2: of his own shadow or just doesn't. Care AND i
Speaker 2: think one just being an outsider in this, place which
Speaker 2: is you, know close To, atlanta but world's away. Right
Speaker 2: even on his booking sheet there was a line for
Speaker 2: deformities and the deformity listed Is brooklyn Accent.
Speaker 1: Ron what are your recollections of the?
Speaker 3: Trial stranger in a strange. Land my trial attorney came
Speaker 3: to see, ME i believe maybe twice at the most.
Speaker 3: Repair he never talked to none of my witnesses till
Speaker 3: the day to. Trial so the night before my attorney
Speaker 3: comes walking down to the jail and he, said we
Speaker 3: got the trial in the. Morning try to get a
Speaker 3: haircut and cut your. BEARD i got an old rusty.
Speaker 3: RAZOR i trimmed my beard. Off so the day to,
Speaker 3: TRIAL i go. In now you got this prosecutor Ton
Speaker 3: jerry look at. Him he tried to change his. Appearance
Speaker 3: he shaved his beard. Off so basically everything my trial
Speaker 3: attorney did was. Negative when he HAD bt on the witness,
Speaker 3: stand he popped the question off as, well watch your relationship.
Speaker 3: Tonight the district Attorney JOHN i you, know he jumped
Speaker 3: up said, whoa, whoa. Whoa you told the judge get
Speaker 3: the jury out of, here and they disciplined my. Attorney
Speaker 3: they brought up the rape. Shield you're not supposed to
Speaker 3: ask no kind of sexual, relationships pass, relationships but you
Speaker 3: know it was too. Late the jury already heard this,
Speaker 3: question so they bring it, back and from that point,
Speaker 3: on my attorney sat there and drew little sailboats on his,
Speaker 3: pad so it was a foregone. Conclusion you KNOW i
Speaker 3: was going to get.
Speaker 1: Convicted he drew little sailboats on his, pass and you're
Speaker 1: sitting there watching him do. This so you've got like
Speaker 1: a split screen horror. Show you've got these people up
Speaker 1: there telling all kinds of lies about, you and you've
Speaker 1: got the one person who's there that's supposed to be
Speaker 1: your last line of, defense really drawing fucking sailboats on a.
Speaker 1: Pass it's really. Not and then of course it gets
Speaker 1: worse because On june, twelfth nineteen, ninety the jury convicted
Speaker 1: you of, aggravatedstomy can have a bodily injury and aggravated
Speaker 1: a sodden sense of your life in. Prison it was
Speaker 1: a horror.
Speaker 3: Show THEN i took the stand in my own. Defense
Speaker 3: my trial attorney you never really asked me any, questions
Speaker 3: but then to prosecute he told the jury EVERYTHING i.
Speaker 3: Said i'm a pathological, liar habitual. LIAR i brought up
Speaker 3: about the, police you, know with the, statements and, oh
Speaker 3: so you're accusing the police of being liars when you're the.
Speaker 3: Liar but you know small town politics and HERE i,
Speaker 3: am you, know From, brooklyn Outsider New, yorker and this
Speaker 3: is what. HAPPENS a gross mischaracter justice cost me thirty,
Speaker 3: years eight, months and thirteen days of my.
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Speaker 3: Worldwide WHEN i first went to, prison it's basically like
Speaker 3: a wild dog. Pack everybody wants to be an alpha,
Speaker 3: male so you don't trust. Nobody you got to watch your,
Speaker 3: back you got to watch what you, say and the
Speaker 3: guards you, know they don't care people getting killed there every,
Speaker 3: week no prosecution on them because you got twenty year
Speaker 3: old kids with life. Sentences no whole again, now so
Speaker 3: they're going to do what they. Want when you first get,
Speaker 3: convicted you go through the. Stage it's a lot of,
Speaker 3: anger anger at the. World then it's. Acceptance you say to, Yourself,
Speaker 3: okay this happened to, me what are you going to
Speaker 3: do about? It so now you educate, yourself go to
Speaker 3: the law, library you start, reading start. Researching AND i
Speaker 3: happened to be watching yoj trial And i've Seen barryshack
Speaker 3: talking ABOUT. DNA i talked to my. MOM i, said
Speaker 3: look THAT dna is going to clear me one. Day
Speaker 3: SO i started. Researching i've Seen barryshak wrote a, Book Actual,
Speaker 3: innocence so my mom sent it to. ME i read
Speaker 3: this book like sixteen. Times and at the, time around
Speaker 3: two thousand and, Three georgia passed the law from post
Speaker 3: CONVICTION dna. Testing SO i sat, down wrote thirteen fifteen
Speaker 3: page letter The Georgia Innocent project and The Innocent project
Speaker 3: In New york And. Georgia people wrote me right, back said,
Speaker 3: okay we'll help. You we'll take your, case send us
Speaker 3: you transcripts and. Everything SO i. Did about a year goes,
Speaker 3: by they send everything, back says at this, time we
Speaker 3: can't do nothing for, you but your case is still.
Speaker 3: Open ten years go. By it was in twenty. Thirteen
Speaker 3: out of the, BLUE i get a. Letter go up
Speaker 3: to the mail, room get legal, mail and here it
Speaker 3: is a letter from THE Us project says we're going
Speaker 3: to accept your. Case and it was just like a
Speaker 3: wy to load off my. Back SO i run over
Speaker 3: to Low, library get. Everything note OF us gets straight into,
Speaker 3: mail And i've been working With vanessa seven eight years.
Speaker 3: Now it's been an uphill.
Speaker 1: Battle, yeah uphill sounds about, right because from WHAT i
Speaker 1: understand is that THIS da who's, now by the, way a,
Speaker 1: judge her Name's, leylasan she fought both to disallow THE
Speaker 1: dna testing to begin with and then to disallow the
Speaker 1: admission of results that they knew would have cleared, you
Speaker 1: which is just freaking. Nuts So, vanessa can you tell
Speaker 1: us about the fight against THIS Da, leilazan who was
Speaker 1: just hell bent on maintaining this awful.
Speaker 2: Injustice THE dna test results that we obtained Clearing ron
Speaker 2: came back in twenty, seventeen and when we got those,
Speaker 2: results THE Da Opposed relief fought against a new, trial
Speaker 2: and her primary argument Was ron could not use these
Speaker 2: test results to prove his innocence because the rape shield
Speaker 2: law prevented him from using THE dna to secure his.
Speaker 2: Exoneration so the rape shield law is a law that
Speaker 2: has been enacted to protect victims of sexual assault from
Speaker 2: defense attorneys going in and trying to, say, oh, well
Speaker 2: you know you slept with twenty other people and so
Speaker 2: you weren't really sexually, assaulted or you, consented or try
Speaker 2: to use victim's past sexual history to somehow undermine the
Speaker 2: veracity of his or her. Claim and it has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with if you have scientific evidence that goes
Speaker 2: to the heart of who committed the, crime, Right but
Speaker 2: this is how the state was in this. Case their position,
Speaker 2: was we Know ron was the, assailant so if there's
Speaker 2: some MALE dna in her rape, kit, that by the,
Speaker 2: way we know couldn't come from a prior act of consensual,
Speaker 2: sex because she told hospital personnel she hadn't had sex
Speaker 2: in a week before the, attack so we know it
Speaker 2: couldn't have come from anyone. Else but their position was
Speaker 2: since it Excluded, ron it had to come from somebody.
Speaker 2: Else she must be, lying she must have not been
Speaker 2: honest about another, encounter and Therefore ron can't use. It
Speaker 2: and it's like that was, crazy and even ultimately THE
Speaker 2: da recognized was crazy because of some cases that were
Speaker 2: going on in The Georgia Supreme court at the. Time
Speaker 2: so she tried to use the rape shield law as
Speaker 2: a rape shield sword Against. Ron then when that didn't
Speaker 2: prevail and his conviction was, vacated he was being held
Speaker 2: in the county jail with no. Bail he was in
Speaker 2: on a sexual assault for which he had already served thirty,
Speaker 2: years and the court declined to set fail and so
Speaker 2: he was in jail for over a year with no.
Speaker 2: Activity the state have made no real attempt to bring
Speaker 2: this case to, retrial but wouldn't dismiss the. Charges and,
Speaker 2: then of course THE covid nineteen pandemic, hits and so
Speaker 2: In april of twenty, twenty we make this emergency motion
Speaker 2: to set bail In ron's. Case this is when the
Speaker 2: pandemic's taking. Off it starts to spread like wildfire in.
Speaker 2: Jails people in jails are sitting, ducks Right they don't
Speaker 2: have access to mass and purel and all of the
Speaker 2: things that people were clamoring for out in. Society and
Speaker 2: so it's at this point that we finally are approaching
Speaker 2: a hearing. Date and by the, way in this, jurisdiction
Speaker 2: if you file, emotion the only way you can get
Speaker 2: on the court's calendar is if THE da sets it.
Speaker 2: Down so for a while she wouldn't even set, This
Speaker 2: we couldn't even get the motion. Set and finally we
Speaker 2: get an opportunity that a court's going to hear, it
Speaker 2: and she makes this offer To, ron you, know if
Speaker 2: you just plead, guilty you can get out. Tomorrow she
Speaker 2: even offers him An alford, plea which means that he
Speaker 2: could have maintained his innocence but still pled. Guilty would
Speaker 2: have the same effect as a. Conviction but he could
Speaker 2: have gotten, out you, know the next, day if he
Speaker 2: had just SAID i did. It but by saying, No
Speaker 2: ron wasn't just taking this, stance he was also risking his.
Speaker 2: Life you, know we didn't know what was going to
Speaker 2: go on WITH. Covid he didn't have access to even protect,
Speaker 2: himself so it was even more dangerous than. Usual this
Speaker 2: thought that you know by saying, No ron could have
Speaker 2: died in prison and just never had the opportunity to
Speaker 2: even walk. Out and, then of, course after he turns
Speaker 2: down the, deal the state goes into court and argues
Speaker 2: That ron shouldn't get bailed because he's too. Dangerous so
Speaker 2: he's too dangerous to walk out of prison if he's
Speaker 2: maintaining his. Innocence but if he had just said he was,
Speaker 2: guilty you were going to let him, go. Right and
Speaker 2: then to top it all, off the prosecutor, says we oppose,
Speaker 2: bail but if you're going to set, bail set it
Speaker 2: at fifty, thousand and the court Said i'm going to
Speaker 2: set it at five hundred.
Speaker 1: THOUSAND i, mean what master do these people, serve because
Speaker 1: it certainly isn't. Justice And, ron can you take us
Speaker 1: back to that moment when they offered you the plea
Speaker 1: where if you just accepted it and said you were,
Speaker 1: guilty that you could walk out the door the next,
Speaker 1: day right the very next, day after thirty years in.
Speaker 1: PRISON i, mean what went through your mind in that.
Speaker 3: MOMENT i thought about that for a split, second AND i, said,
Speaker 3: well IF i give, In i've been Saying i'm minison
Speaker 3: for thirty. Years, also NOW i won't change my. STORY i,
Speaker 3: said you, know the worst they can do if they
Speaker 3: reconvict me is give me a no life. Sentence they
Speaker 3: already took everything from. Me my mom died in twenty,
Speaker 3: ten my brother died WHILE i was in. Prison i'm
Speaker 3: living up here with my sister now helping. Her she
Speaker 3: supported me for thirty, years and it's my turn to
Speaker 3: give back help. Her so by not giving, in if
Speaker 3: somebody hears about my, case that's in the same position
Speaker 3: to take a plea. Bargain i'm not holding it against.
Speaker 3: Them you, know it's their personal. Choice but if they
Speaker 3: look at me and they take some strength and, say,
Speaker 3: Hey i'm, innocent let's prove. It don't give into these.
Speaker 4: Bastards it's incredible to hear you say that you thought
Speaker 4: about it for a split.
Speaker 1: Second it's like you've already seen the worst aspects of our,
Speaker 1: system so you knew what they could do to. You
Speaker 1: it took a lot of, courage and like you, said
Speaker 1: everybody makes that choice. Differently it's another sort of sick
Speaker 1: thing about our system that people are put into that,
Speaker 1: position having already been through the unbelievable trauma of drawing
Speaker 1: fulm incarceration for, decades and then faced with possibly waiting
Speaker 1: years for another trial and then potentially being framed. Again
Speaker 1: but you stood by your guns and ultimately that was
Speaker 1: clearly the right, decision and all of us are thrilled
Speaker 1: that you've been, vindicated, exonerated and proven to have been
Speaker 1: telling the truth all. Along vanessa helped me out here
Speaker 1: because this is really it's. EVIL i, mean what they
Speaker 1: did to him is, evil, RIGHT i mean that's not
Speaker 1: too strong of a.
Speaker 2: Word, WELL i guess it's not when you consider that
Speaker 2: the district attorney Leyla's on who was handling his, case
Speaker 2: had been exposed for having a little toy electric chair
Speaker 2: on her. DESK i think you've definitely identified the mentality
Speaker 2: that's going on.
Speaker 1: Here And, RON i want to highlight the fact that
Speaker 1: you ended up with a literal dream team, here, RIGHT i,
Speaker 1: mean you Have vanessa and The Innesis. PROJECT i want
Speaker 1: to also shout out the other good guys, Here Donald
Speaker 1: samuel And Amanda Clark palmer from The atlanta law firm
Speaker 1: Of Garland samuel And. Loebe my understanding is that they
Speaker 1: played a really significant role in, this AM i.
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, Yes in twenty thirteen when first came on.
Speaker 3: Board that was such a relief over the years talking
Speaker 3: on the, phone getting the information about my case and
Speaker 3: learning more and seeing how the process. Works it's, amazing Especially,
Speaker 3: vanessa and now That i'm out have access to needing
Speaker 3: that SO i could see the scope of The unison,
Speaker 3: project how many people they helped and affected their lives
Speaker 3: in a positive. Way don And amanda In, Georgia, vanessa
Speaker 3: all the, paralegals the law, STUDENTS i can name them.
Speaker 3: All i'm in their.
Speaker 2: Debt and we did ultimately work with The Georgia andson's
Speaker 2: project as. Well they were really instrumental when we were
Speaker 2: fighting to get THE dna testing and have been a
Speaker 2: great partner with.
Speaker 1: Us so ultimately justice was delayed by three, decades but not.
Speaker 1: Denied In june twenty, Twenty District Attorney lala Is, on
Speaker 1: one of the major villains in this. Case in an
Speaker 1: ironic twist of, fate her good fortune was the best
Speaker 1: thing that could have happened For ron because when she
Speaker 1: was appointed to A Superior court judgeship and her chief,
Speaker 1: Deputy randy, McGinley was sworn in as the NEW da
Speaker 1: then also elected That, november he promised the review Of ron's.
Speaker 1: Case at this, Point ron was already out on, bail
Speaker 1: but still not free until On august twenty, fifth twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: one d McGinley had Reviewed ron's case and dismissed all the.
Speaker 3: Charges on That dayness called, Me she cried and, said you're.
Speaker 3: Free they dropped the charges like it stunned. ME i, said,
Speaker 3: nah it took a couple of days of walking around
Speaker 3: and letting us sink. In i'm finally. Free, then you,
Speaker 3: know you start thinking about how many more people still
Speaker 3: in prison that have no, chance have no, help and
Speaker 3: it hurts you, know it bothers you because after so
Speaker 3: many years in, prison my, psyche you, know is still
Speaker 3: there with them. People it's something THAT i can't let it.
Speaker 3: Go and there's no tone how many countless people that
Speaker 3: are still, innocent still in prison with no, help never
Speaker 3: go and get no. Help SO i feel. Blessed don't
Speaker 3: take nothing for, granted no. More just one day at a.
Speaker 1: Time, Yeah and it's really incredible to have you here,
Speaker 1: today just weeks since you were fully. Exonerated so for
Speaker 1: those of you who are moved By ron's story and
Speaker 1: who would like to help him as he begins this
Speaker 1: next chapter of his. Life there's An amazon wish list
Speaker 1: as well as A mightycause dot com. Story we're gonna
Speaker 1: put links to both of these in the bio where
Speaker 1: you can donate to Help. Ron so please go click
Speaker 1: on the link in the. Bio do it. Now we're
Speaker 1: going to join you in doing so here At Ronful
Speaker 1: conviction as. Well, so now this is a part of
Speaker 1: the show Called Closing, arguments and it works like. This
Speaker 1: first of, ALL i thank you Again Ron jacobson for
Speaker 1: having a courage to come here and share your incredible,
Speaker 1: story and of Course Vanessa popkin for just being such a,
Speaker 1: superwoman freedom fighter all around just awesome Human and so
Speaker 1: thanks to both of you for being here on the.
Speaker 1: Show and now Closing arguments works like. THIS i turn
Speaker 1: my mic, off kick back in my, chair leave my headphones,
Speaker 1: on and just leave your microphones on so you can
Speaker 1: share any other thoughts that we may have left, out
Speaker 1: or anything that's on your mind of any. Kind So,
Speaker 1: vanessa with all due respect to, you will save the
Speaker 1: best for. Last and of Course, ron that's. You you're
Speaker 1: the featured guest. Here So, vanessa once you go first
Speaker 1: and then just hand it off To, ron and that's
Speaker 1: how we'll close out the.
Speaker 2: Show you, know being here today and listening To ron,
Speaker 2: speak it's just hitting, me particularly now his incredible strength
Speaker 2: and fortitude to have turned down that. Offer and we
Speaker 2: just know how. Coerceive the legal system is pre, trial
Speaker 2: the state tries to extort guilty please to resolve. Cases
Speaker 2: the stakes are so high that you're incentivized to just
Speaker 2: take a pleaven when you're, innocent or just give up
Speaker 2: your constitutional rights to a. Trial SO i am respecting
Speaker 2: the amount of courage and strength that took, You ron
Speaker 2: to make that decision and stand up to the, system
Speaker 2: And i'm so proud that you. Prevailed it's making me
Speaker 2: think about the judges again that the person really dragged
Speaker 2: this out through so many years is now on the.
Speaker 2: Bench we need to get progressive prosecutors in, place but
Speaker 2: we also need to make sure that they're judges on
Speaker 2: the bench who are going to also be in line with.
Speaker 2: Change and SO i think those are the Takeaways i'm.
Speaker 2: Experiencing in addition To, Ron you're just an all around
Speaker 2: such an incredible. Person and you, know When ron got
Speaker 2: out while he was still fighting to get the charges.
Speaker 2: Dismissed he started going on social media and he was On.
Speaker 2: Facebook and when you're representing someone who could face a,
Speaker 2: retrial it's a real stressor to have them out there
Speaker 2: making all these. Comments SO i thought about reaching out
Speaker 2: To ron and, saying, hey fall back a little. BIT
Speaker 2: i was reading what he was saying and his perspective
Speaker 2: on the legal system and, change and it was just
Speaker 2: so right on THAT i was, Like i'm not saying
Speaker 2: anything keep going.
Speaker 3: Wrong, well you, know my heart and soul. Bleeds oh
Speaker 3: my brothers and sisters still behind.
Speaker 1: The walls with no.
Speaker 3: Hope and IF i could be a voice in the
Speaker 3: wilderness to help, them you, know that's my goal in
Speaker 3: life right? Now do you use my exoneration to help
Speaker 3: the next person pay, forward whatever it. Takes and The
Speaker 3: Innocent project and The Innocent, network they do incredible work
Speaker 3: AND i thank them every.
Speaker 1: Day thank you for listening To Wrongful. Conviction please support
Speaker 1: your local innocence organizations and go to the links in
Speaker 1: our bio to see how you can. Help i'd like
Speaker 1: to thank our production Team Connor, Hall Justin, Golden Jeff,
Speaker 1: clyburn And kevin wardis the music on this show as
Speaker 1: always is by three TIME oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph
Speaker 1: be sure to follow us On instagram At Wrongful, conviction
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Speaker 1: Podcast Wrongful conviction is a production Of lava For Good
Speaker 1: podcasts in association With Signal Company number one