1 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 2 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: and today on the show, it's a listener questions episode. 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: You guys, send me your questions about evolutionary biology, animal behavior, pets, birds, worms. 5 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: You send those to Creature Featurepod at gmail dot com 6 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: and I do my best to answer them. And I 7 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: love this because it always sends me on really interesting 8 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: or thought journeys research. So let's get right into it. Hey, Katie, 9 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: I have a question and a conundrum for you in 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: tech behavior question. I know bugs must rest somehow and sometime, 11 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: but it seems like there's always a type of mosquito 12 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: around day or night. Are there specific times of day 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: when bugs, or at least those awful zebra mosquitoes will 14 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: be so that I can sit outside in peace. I 15 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: also wanted to ask your philosophy on naming pets. Below 16 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: er some pictures of my new friend. The name this 17 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: shelter gave him didn't fit, so I've been referring to 18 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: him as my guy, but all I know he thinks 19 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: his name is Hey. Personally, I think I feel like 20 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: a name needs to be at least three levels of meaning, 21 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: but I've got a mental block theories, ideas, scathing, derision. 22 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for the creatures and the features, Andrew, Thank you 23 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: so much. Andrew. First of all, I think Hey or 24 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: Guy is an absolute cutie. My philosophy on pet naming 25 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: is basically anarchy. I think, whatever you want to name them, 26 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's sometimes it's good to have like a 27 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: name that you can definitely say in like a friendly 28 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: upbeat tone. But usually my pet names are two syllables. 29 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: They have like an E sound at the end. That's 30 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: just my thing. Like I had it Pete the parakeet, 31 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: Poppy the parakeet, Binkie the cat, Stewie the hamster, Mousey 32 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: the mouse, which one of my more creative namings, and 33 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: of course Cookie the dog, and I had just thought about, like, well, 34 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: why do I do this? Why do I always have 35 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,839 Speaker 1: it and in an E sound? And I think it's 36 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: because my name is Katie, so I'm just used to 37 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: name sounding like that with an E at the end. 38 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: But I don't think all pets need to be named 39 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: that way. Really, it's just if the name has a 40 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: positive association for you, that's the most important part, because 41 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: pets can understand tone of voice, but they can't really 42 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: understand words so much. We can teach them a few words, 43 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: but your dog's not gonna know. Really the difference between 44 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: being named like no Stradamus or being named guy as 45 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: long as you're saying it with a lot of love. 46 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: So that's that's it. Onto the question about most squitos. 47 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: Do they ever sleep even though it seems like they don't, 48 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: because believe me, it really does seem that way, they're 49 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: always around, they do actually sleep, so researchers have studied 50 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: mosquitoes sleep in several species and found that sleep deprived 51 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: mosquitoes would choose rest over blood meals, so they do 52 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: need sleep. They will even sometimes prefer sleep over biting you, 53 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: but that's only when they're sleep deprived. The problem is 54 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: that they're not always sleep deprived, so mosquitoes are really 55 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: easily roused from rest by the smell of a nearby 56 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: food source, and if they're not sleep deprived, they'll happily 57 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: wake up to try to bite you. University of Cincinnati 58 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: researchers had to take this into account when designing their 59 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: research on mosquitoes, because mosquitoes tend to wake up and 60 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: become active when human researchers walk in the room because 61 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: basically they smell like a banquet, and so they had 62 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: to isolate their mosquitoes that they were doing sleep studies 63 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: on from passers by. So that's one reason it seems 64 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: like they don't sleep, you see. Assistant Professor of Biology 65 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: Joshua bin Watt said, quote, it's really hard to quantify 66 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: sleep and mosquitoes when as soon as you walk in 67 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: the room, you're considered their Thanksgiving dinner. So that's one problem. 68 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: Mosquitoes are great at waking up, smelling us, and then 69 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: wanting to bite us. Another problem is that different species 70 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: have different sleep schedules. So if you're in a mosquito 71 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: rich area, the chances are that you have multiple species 72 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: there and some species that are going to be active 73 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: at different times a day, and some of that means 74 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: even during the daytime hours and then even at night 75 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: there may be mosquitoes that are active. So for instance, 76 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: the striped mosquitoes Adias elbow pictus, also known as the 77 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: Asian tiger mosquito, are those black and white banded mosquitoes. 78 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: I think some people call them zebra mosquitoes. They're found 79 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: in tropical areas as well as the south and southwestern US. 80 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: They are real menaces. They can spread danga and zeka 81 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: in areas where the disease is prevalent. They're not inherently diseased. 82 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: They can only spread the disease if the pathogen is 83 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: present in that environment and in that country. That's why 84 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: mosquito related deaths are worse in some countries. They like 85 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: to feed during the day, primarily in the morning and 86 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: the evening, while resting at night. Now, at the same time, 87 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: common mosquitoes kulex are more active and tint to bite 88 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: at night, so those are also the ones that make 89 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: more sound buzz in your ear. So this is why 90 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: it seems like mosquitos never rest. They do, but usually 91 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: at least one species is on the clock. And also 92 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: even though they might be resting, they're very sensitive and 93 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: they can detect carbon dioxide emissions so easily that we 94 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: make while we're breathing that they can wake up, find 95 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: you and eat you. They are just really good at it. 96 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: And I'm sorry, there's no better there's no good news 97 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: I can tell you about mosquitos. They're just amazing at 98 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: finding us and biding us. All right, on to the 99 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: next listener question. Dear Katie, could you kindly focus your 100 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: powers of research and deduction on this poor creature? So 101 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: I was sent a video of what appears to be 102 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: a crocodile with a deformed S shaped spine. All right, 103 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: now back to the email. What happened to them? Where 104 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: in the world are they? Are they being well taken 105 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: care of? Are they suffering? Is this common among crocodilians? 106 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: A huge fan of the show, and we'll give you 107 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: a million good reviews if you can find any answers 108 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: about this little guy, who I think is my new 109 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: spirit animal, at least a million good reviews. Thanks for 110 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: all you do. Keep up the good word, Susie. Thank 111 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: you so much for your question, Susie. So I can 112 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: tell you what happened to them and about their care, 113 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: I can't. I couldn't figure out where this specific crocodile was. 114 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: But let me get into what's going on with this guy. 115 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: Just a description of the video. It's a very It's 116 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: a crocodile that looks like it has a really really 117 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: severe like scoliosis. It's spine is shaped like an s. 118 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: It's kind of like it looks a little bit scrunged 119 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: up in a way, and it is alive and it's 120 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: walking and it's an adult, but it's moving pretty awkwardly 121 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: due to this huge s and spine. This unfortunately seems 122 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: to be a crocodile with cayphoscoliosis, which is a curved 123 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: deformation of the spine caused by osteomalicia, which is kind 124 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: of the word for quote, soft bones. This is due 125 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: to improper mineralization during development, so it starts when they're 126 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: baby crocodiles. This is a disorder primarily found unfortunately in 127 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: captive crocodiles, because when they're young, what can happen is 128 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: they're not getting enough calcium and other minerals in their diet, 129 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: so they start to develop these symptoms. Other symptoms are translucent, 130 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: glassy teeth, inflexible jaws. They call them rubber jaws in 131 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: the medical literature. It's just these jaws that they don't 132 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: have enough of the calcium and these other minerals to 133 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: have the strength in their jawbones, and so that can 134 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: also cause spinal deformities. So when crocodiles are only fed 135 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: meat without bones or other supplementation, like say, just fed chicken, 136 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: raw chicken with no bones. No, they're supplements, no other vitamins. 137 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: They don't get enough calcium in their diet to properly 138 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: grow their bones. In the wild. They don't just eat 139 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: deboned chickens you'd get in the grocery stores. Some captive 140 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: crocodiles are fed, but they'll eat entire animals, including bone, skin, joints, 141 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: all the things that wild crocodilians can break down and 142 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: use as nutrients. They also get a variety, right, they 143 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: don't just eat chickens. They eat a variety of different 144 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: animals which give them a variety of nutrients. So it 145 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: can be treated in young crocodilians with calcium supplementation which 146 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: will save their lives. But any spinal deformation is likely permanent, 147 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: so if they start to get a spinal deformation as 148 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: a baby crocodile, they'll just have that throughout their whole lives, 149 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: as can be seen in the adult crocodile in the 150 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: video that Susie sent to me. So without treatment, though, 151 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: they will lose the ability to walk, lift their heads, 152 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: and eventually this is fatal. So this is why wild 153 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: animals like crocodiles, alligators. All crocodilians are really not good pets. 154 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's pretty obvious, right because once they grow 155 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: up they can also eat you. But beyond sort of 156 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: the you know, an adult crocodile, an adult alligator is 157 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: not a good pet because they are an alligator and 158 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: a crocodile, and they are built to be eaten swimming machines, 159 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: not pets. The other factor is that they have very 160 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: specific dietary and behavioral needs which are typically not feasible 161 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: for the average pet owner. They may be adorable as babies, 162 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: they are really really cute babies, but they're predators. They're 163 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: not only driven to dangerously try to eat prey, which 164 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: is not great in the suburbs, but they must do 165 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: so for their own health. So even if you keep 166 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: your pet crocodile from eating the neighbor's dog, it's gonna 167 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: be unhealthy, probably because it's not getting the full diet 168 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: that it needs. It's actually this is kind of tangential, 169 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: but it's one of the reasons I cringe sometimes when 170 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: I see tiktoks of people giving their dogs or cats 171 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: completely raw diets. Sometimes that's okay, but if you're not 172 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: an expert and you're not being guided by a veterinarian. 173 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: Giving your animals more quote unquote like natural foods isn't 174 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: necessarily good because unless you're getting all of the nutrients 175 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: that they need, and you could be missing something, right, 176 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: Like if you feed your dog just chicken every night, 177 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: like cooked chicken, that's not enough. So kibble has a 178 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: lot of problems. I agree with that. Kibble's definitely not perfect, 179 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: but good kibble is nutritionally balanced with these components that 180 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: your dog or your cat needs. So if you don't, 181 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: if you're not an expert, kibble's pretty good and that 182 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: will get your dog and your cat the nutrition that 183 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: it needs. And so unless you really know what you're doing, 184 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: you can actually paradoxically deprive your pet of nutrients if 185 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: you say, feed them raw meat only right, you may 186 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: have the best of intentions wanting to have a healthy 187 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: animal and actually accidentally give them a nutritional deficiency. Dogs 188 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: in particular, are very different from their wild wolf counterparts 189 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: and have different dietary needs. So looking at what a 190 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: wolf feeds is not necessarily gonna help a dog. They've 191 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: evolved to be able to eat eat near our human 192 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: tables and our food supply. They actually have evolved to 193 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: be able to digest grain in a way that wolves can't, 194 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: so it is it's tricky. I'm not saying that fresh 195 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: meat raw diets are always bad and that you shouldn't 196 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: ever do them, but it's really important to do it 197 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: with a guidance from a veterinarian so you can find 198 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: out make sure that you're not accidentally depriving your pet 199 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: of key nutrients. It's also good in terms of like 200 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: individual animals will have out food allergies sometimes, right, so 201 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: some people actually do have to put their pets on 202 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: a specific diet, sometimes a raw diet because of food allergies, 203 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: but those are guided by a veterinarian. They're probably also 204 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: being given vitamin supplements. So yeah, anyways, trying don't just 205 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: feed your dog or cat raw sheet every night, that's 206 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: not a good situation. And don't feature pet crocodile, just 207 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: raw chicken, and don't have a pet crocodile is the 208 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: main takeaway. So unfortunately, Yeah, I feel really bad for 209 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: this crocodile in Susie's video. Not fair, not a great situation, unfortunately. 210 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: All right on to the next listener question, Dear Katie, 211 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: I am reading a marvelously gospy British bird book and 212 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: hit a puzzle to quote my commonplace book. Okay, So, 213 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: a female cuckoo seeks to lay an egg in the 214 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: nest of a bird of the same species it hatched 215 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: in quote from the book. Having contracted out the care 216 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: of it's young to a series of foster parents. The 217 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: cuckoo's breeding season comes to an end as soon as 218 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: the eggs are laid, or in the case of the male, 219 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,359 Speaker 1: as soon as the females are no longer soliciting for copulation. 220 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: Cuckoos have no need to hang out out and find 221 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: out the fate of their progeny. The youngsters have an 222 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: internal clock and will and compass that will help them 223 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: make their way under their own steam to the wintering areas. 224 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: Thus their task completed, Some adult cuckoos migrate south as 225 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: soon as they can. Amazingly, this means that some reach 226 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: their winter quarters even before their offspring leave the foster nest. 227 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: This is domin Nick Kuzin's twenty twenty four The Hidden 228 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: Life of Garden Birds, the unseen drama behind everyday survival 229 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: that sounds like a great book. By the way, I 230 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: probably need to read that right back to the email, 231 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: and that's it in the book, leaving me to figure 232 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: figuring that first year migrating cuckos learn how to be 233 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: cuckoos really only when they reach their winter quarters, the 234 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: shyness with which they must approach other cuckoos for the 235 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: first time. I wonder how comparable it is to homeschool 236 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: students arriving out of college campus. Typically, birds learn the 237 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: songs of their species by hearing them in the nest 238 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: and for some birds local groups. They're often human discernible 239 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: regional variants. In doing a light web search to find 240 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: out what has been found out about this processing cuckoos, 241 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: I've found research on Chinese blackbirds learning cuckoo calls and 242 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: teaching them to other blackbirds in the vicinity. Can you 243 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: elucidate Thanks in advance, Mary Anne. What a thoughtful, well 244 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: researched email. This is really impressive. Thank you so much 245 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: for this. This is a great conundrum. So essentially the 246 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: question is how do cuckoos learn how to be cuckoos 247 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: if their parents abandon them to care abandon them In 248 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: the care of these foster parent birds foster parents is 249 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: kind of a nice way of putting it. Really, these 250 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: are brewd parasites, right, Birds that lay their eggs in 251 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: the nests of unsuspecting birds to the detriment to these 252 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: other birds real offspring, and so they're considered parasitic. And 253 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: the quote unquote foster parents are host parents, right, it's 254 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: not sort of a consensual adoption happening happening here. So 255 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: but nevertheless, this problem remains, right the cuckoo, how does 256 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: it learn to be a cuckoo or a cowbird? Write 257 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: another brood parasite, how does it learn to be a 258 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: cowbird when it doesn't have a cuckoo parent or a 259 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: cowbird parent there to teach it? And we know a 260 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: lot of birds learn, so they learn complex songs from 261 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: their parents. The songbirds are fascinating because they present a 262 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: really interesting case of both the power of pre programmed 263 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: behaviors learned behaviors. They've been studied a lot by linguists 264 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: because of their ability to learn complex songs, but also 265 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 1: have the framework that they're built with to learn complex songs. 266 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: But brood parasites like cuckoos and cowbirds are really interesting. 267 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: They share something in common, so they have really strong 268 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: pre programming that keeps nature in a sense stronger than nurture. 269 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: So there was a study done on cowbirds where the 270 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: sounds of a host species and their own species were 271 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: both played to them from a young age. The cowbirds 272 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: instinctively had a preference for the sounds of their own species. 273 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: So this means they have a built in schematic for 274 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: what cowbirds are meant to sound like, so they are 275 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: born within their brains basically a framework that will recognize 276 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: the call of a cowbird and know that is a 277 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: cowbird call and something they should pay attention to versus 278 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: the call of their you know, quote unquote foster parents. 279 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: Another interesting study found that they have a preference for 280 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,239 Speaker 1: birds who share the color of their own plumage, so 281 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: they're looking at their own plumage, they see the color 282 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: and they're drawn towards that type of plumage. The way 283 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: they found this out was by painting brown cowbirds black 284 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: and raising them in isolation, and they would find that 285 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: these cowbirds will incorrectly prefer birds with black plumage, So 286 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: that part they are learning, but it's self referential and 287 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: they're programmed to know to look at themselves rather than 288 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: their foster parents for cues on who is going to 289 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,719 Speaker 1: be their appropriate mate. There's also some research that finds 290 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: that they self reinforce with their own song. Right, They're 291 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: pre programmed with an ability to do a song, and 292 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: then they listen to themselves, and then that this kind 293 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: of creates a reinforcement loop of knowing what song to 294 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: recognize as a cowbird song or a cuckoo song. So 295 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: basically cowbirds and cuckoos, these brood parasites are born with 296 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: brood parasite dot ex right a program, a strong program 297 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: that tells them that they should learn either from them 298 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: themselves or not from their host species, and it gives 299 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: them certain bits of data right about like what does 300 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: the sound of a cowbird? What is that? And what 301 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: should I look for in plumage And basically it prevents 302 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: them from imprinting too much on their host species. Also 303 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: something to note is like, compared to songbirds, their calls 304 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: are really simple, like the cuckoo call cuckoo. You might 305 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: have heard it. It's like, oh, you know, very simple call. 306 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: Cowbirds I can't really do. It's kind of this gurgling 307 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: sound and a chatter, even though it's sort of hard 308 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: for me a human to do. It is not a 309 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,959 Speaker 1: long complicated song, nor do they have a repertoire of 310 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: many different songs like some songbirds do. And those kinds 311 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: of songbirds absolutely have to learn that repertoire, so to 312 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: be pre programmed. Essentially, you do need relatively short and 313 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: simple songs. The birds that have the really long complicated 314 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: songs vast repertoires do need to learn them. So as 315 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: versatile and as plastic as human brains are, right, we're 316 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: great learners. We are so affected by our environment. We 317 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: definitely don't seem like little preprogrammed robots, right, and I 318 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't say we are, but we are born with certain 319 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: schematics and there's a lot of weird pre programming that 320 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: we have because essentially, when you are first born, you 321 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: have to come out being able to identify your own species. 322 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: Other humans got to be able to eat, and you 323 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: got to be able to cry make sound when you're 324 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: in distress. But what's really interesting is that newborn babies 325 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: have a rough schematic for what a human face looks like, 326 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: and from a young age seems to know that there 327 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: is the facial parts are supposed to fall in certain places, Essentially, 328 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: they are more likely to look at correct facial diagrams, 329 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: like a simple drawing of a face, and they're less 330 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: interested in random patterns or diagrams of faces that have 331 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: been scrambled around, like a nose on the forehead and 332 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: eyes and places they're not supposed to be. They're really 333 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: drawn towards a facial schematic of eyes essentially where they're 334 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: supposed to be nose mouthed in relatively the correct proportions. 335 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: So it's a bit spooky to consider that. Even we 336 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: come with a lot of pre programming, but it's necessary 337 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: for our survival to come prepared to eat recognize members 338 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: of our own species. Also, even for the things that 339 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: we learn, right, we have certain frameworks for learning. We're 340 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: not completely blank slates. Were kind of like a canvas 341 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: that has like basic schemas already penciled out a little bit. 342 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: And then as we're growing, we are just absorbing so 343 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: much information and we're learning so much. And this is 344 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: a little different from like a cowbird or a cuckoo, 345 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: who is probably learning, you know, of course they are 346 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: some things, but they're not learning a whole lot from 347 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: their host species. They're basically pre programmed with the edict 348 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: that you know this, this bird that is feeding you 349 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: is not your own species. You don't need to pay 350 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: attention to them too much. You need to pay more 351 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 1: attention to your own plumage. And then they've also got 352 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: these handy calls. So is it like being homeschooled and 353 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: going off to college for the first time. I can't 354 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: speak to homeschooling. I haven't experienced it, so I don't know, 355 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: but I would say that these birds probably are a 356 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: lot more comfortable meeting members of their own species for 357 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: the first time in a way then say, you know, 358 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: we would write because they do come with so much 359 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: pre programmed schema where it's like, ah, yes, I had 360 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: these instructions to seek out a bird that has this 361 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: call and a bird that has this kind of plumage, 362 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: and there they are. So I don't think they're necessarily confused, 363 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: but it is a little spooky maybe to think of 364 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: them as these robots that come with programming. But that's 365 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: what happens with a lot of animals, animals that come 366 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: right out of the shell, having a lot of behaviors 367 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: that they just can go right into, like sea turtles 368 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: kind of following the light of the moon, sort of 369 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,959 Speaker 1: reflecting on the ocean, knowing to go towards that ocean 370 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: water that just is in them right as they hatch. 371 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: No learning, just they gotta go. So uh yeah, it's 372 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 1: a it's an interesting thing. I guess it's kind of 373 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: nice to be an animal that has a lot of 374 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: stuff that we get to learn and shape us that 375 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: we're not inherently born with. So yeah, we're not like 376 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: a cowbird or cuckoo. Although I guess being able to 377 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: just leave your kid with some hapless victim and have 378 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: them raise it, is that a good thing. I don't know. 379 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,719 Speaker 1: I like kids, all right, guys, So thank you so 380 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: much for all your questions. If you have an animal 381 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: related question that you'd like to send to me, you 382 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: can write to me at Creature feature Pod at gmail 383 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: dot com. I'm definitely gonna do a few more of 384 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: these episodes. I'm kind of taking like a quasi summer break, 385 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: but I still want to have some freshness in here, 386 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: and I feel like having listener questions episodes is a 387 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: good way to do it. I hope that you're liking them, 388 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: and I will see you next Wednesday. Two features a 389 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,479 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio for more podcasts like the one you 390 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: just heard, Visit I heard Radio, app Apple podcasts, or Hey, 391 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: guess what? What? Have you listened to your favorite shows? 392 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: I can't judge you and thanks to the Space Classics, 393 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: but they're super awesome. Song Excellana, I think I did 394 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: the outro in the wrong order, but you know, only 395 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,719 Speaker 1: God can judge me. See you next Wednesday.