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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. We are returning with a story that

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Speaker 1: is harrowing to explore, but very much needs to be told.

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Speaker 1: It's the story of Native people and First Nations and

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Speaker 1: forced assimilation in multiple points in US history.

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Speaker 2: It's real.

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Speaker 1: It's not one conspiracy, it's a series of conspiracies, and

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Speaker 1: the consequences of these continue in the modern day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is one of the most heartbreaking aspects of

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Speaker 2: the history of this country, for sure.

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Speaker 3: And we're going to get into it in the episode here.

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Speaker 3: There's been a lot of news about this subject since

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Speaker 3: May twenty twenty, where more and more revelations have occurred

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Speaker 3: since we recorded this, So we would just encourage you

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Speaker 3: to listen and then do your own research afterwards a

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Speaker 3: quick cursory Google search, we'll find news story after news

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Speaker 3: story of revelations from countries across the world, not just.

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Speaker 2: In the US.

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Speaker 1: And with that, we're going to pause for a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor and we'll return.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 4: production of.

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Speaker 3: iHeartRadio Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 3: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you are

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Speaker 1: here and that makes this stuff. They don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know. We've been opening at times with a Twitter

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Speaker 1: roll call or a shout out on social media. Today

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Speaker 1: we wanted to do a very special version of that,

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Speaker 1: and it's one that's timely and it's one that is important.

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Speaker 1: So Blows of Mercy approached me on Instagram and I

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Speaker 1: believe also called on the phone. Numbers that correct, Matt.

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Speaker 3: Yes, this person left a message with this, a very

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Speaker 3: similar message that she left to you on Instagram. I

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Speaker 3: guess we'll just let's call this person Blows of Mercy

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Speaker 3: for now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, and we Blows of Mercy. I say, guys,

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Speaker 1: a screenshot so we'd all be looped in before we

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Speaker 1: were on air. Raised a point that I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of us in the audience have heard about recently,

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Speaker 1: and it's a disturbing one. It's worth a PSA. We'll

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Speaker 1: just well read this if that's all right. I think

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Speaker 1: you guys have a copy of it too. Blows of

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Speaker 1: Mercy says the xenophobia happening during this outbreak is really

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Speaker 1: affecting my quality of life. I haven't been back to

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Speaker 1: China since two thousand and six, Not that anyone random

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Speaker 1: would know, but it hurts to still be yelled at.

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Speaker 1: Could you guys maybe just remind people that Asians are

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Speaker 1: not the virus. We aren't to blame. The Chinese government

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Speaker 1: screwed up, not us. Hearing the attacks happening on Asians

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Speaker 1: lately literally scares me for being me. People's lives are

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Speaker 1: being up and did and I understand the outrage. It

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Speaker 1: just sucks that it's been blamed on an entire continent.

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Speaker 1: Thanks again. And you know, have you guys been seeing

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Speaker 1: some of the reports in the news about that here

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Speaker 1: in the States.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, just like the kind of alarming uptick in racially

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Speaker 5: motivated attacks and verbal abuse at the very least, and

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Speaker 5: definitely seeing some people that are actually getting accosted physically.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And this person actually I called this person back and

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Speaker 3: we had a brief conversation about this. But one of

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Speaker 3: the things that they expressed was just the fear of

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Speaker 3: going anywhere, stepping out of the house and looking way

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Speaker 3: you look, just because of the way you look and

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Speaker 3: being subject to this kind of discrimination, and then adding

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Speaker 3: and compounding to that wearing a mask, the way you know,

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Speaker 3: we were told to wear a mask and the way

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Speaker 3: that it's been recommended for us to do so, it

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Speaker 3: just kind of adds to that. Yeah, it's definitely something

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Speaker 3: we should be thinking about and just make sure we're

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Speaker 3: not a part of the problem, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of our fellow listeners and fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realists here aren't going to have that kind of

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Speaker 1: lapse in critical thinking, you know what I mean. It

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Speaker 1: reminded me a little bit about a few years ago.

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Speaker 1: You guys, remember the boycott's Chick fil A, which is

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Speaker 1: a tremendously popular chicken joint down here in southeast United States.

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Speaker 1: Because of their anti LGBT legislation and the enormous amounts

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Speaker 1: of money that they would donate every year, people start

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Speaker 1: a boycotting Chick fil A as is their right, and

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Speaker 1: they started protesting it as is the right. But there

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Speaker 1: was this video that went viral of this guy pulling

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Speaker 1: up to a Chick fil A drive through in a

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Speaker 1: car and just screaming at this cashier who couldn't have

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Speaker 1: been more than like sixteen and he was saying, like,

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Speaker 1: you did this, and you're you hate people, You're over

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Speaker 1: and she's like so confused, she's almost about to cry.

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Speaker 1: She's literally a teenager who's probably, I don't know, trying

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Speaker 1: to save up for a video game console or a car.

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Speaker 1: So I think that it's it's easy. It's a design

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Speaker 1: flaw in the human brain that makes it so easy

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Speaker 1: for us to project our big fears onto helpless people

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Speaker 1: and onto innocent people, people who are no way responsible.

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Speaker 1: And it doesn't it's not even like a left or

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Speaker 1: right thing. But if you are, if you're seeing that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff in your neck of the woods, let

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Speaker 1: us know because we can guarantee you if there is

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Speaker 1: some sort of mass mind behind COVID nineteen, it's not

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Speaker 1: the person that walked into Target in front of you.

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Speaker 1: It's like, one hundred percent. You have our word on.

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Speaker 3: That, well said Ben, So thank you for writing to

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Speaker 3: us and just making that point and calling and leaving

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Speaker 3: that message in for speaking with us. So just let's

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Speaker 3: keep that in mind as we keep going throughout this episode,

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Speaker 3: and as we keep living our lives.

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Speaker 1: Right, because we are aren't we we are living our

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Speaker 1: lives here. We are again, you know, hopefully one of

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Speaker 1: your favorite conspiracy shows, mid Pandemic. We hope you're well,

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Speaker 1: and Matt nol, I hope you guys are doing well.

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Speaker 1: Today we're looking at another crisis. It's a deeply disturbing

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Speaker 1: and sadly somewhat obscure practice that continues to affect the

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Speaker 1: United States and multiple other countries in the modern day.

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Speaker 1: Think about it this way, what would you do if

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Speaker 1: one day your government snatched your children away from you.

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Speaker 1: Kidnapped your children for the express purpose of teaching them

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Speaker 1: to forget where they came from and what their identity was.

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Speaker 1: Just keep that in mind. If you have kids that

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Speaker 1: you're close to in your life, now keep that in

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Speaker 1: mind as we explore today's episode. Here are the facts.

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Speaker 5: So I think we all pretty much can accept the

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Speaker 5: notion that European expansion really changed the world and made

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Speaker 5: the world feel like sort of a smaller place. I

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Speaker 5: guess while Canada, the United States, and Australia are today

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Speaker 5: considered part of the anglosphere, ancient cultures existed in the

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Speaker 5: American and Australian contents for millennia before the arrival of

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Speaker 5: any of these interlopers, and the arrival of a lot

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Speaker 5: of these outsiders completely changed the fabric of the cultures

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Speaker 5: of the pre existing Native empires, which had been building

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Speaker 5: for thousands of years in many cases.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this might sound like something from a a

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Speaker 1: dusty history book in some neglected corner of your local library.

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Speaker 1: But history is alive, right, History is alive, and it's reactive.

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Speaker 1: And William Faulkner was right when he said the past

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Speaker 1: is not passed. The consequences of this expansion carry on

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Speaker 1: to the modern day in numerous ways. And when we

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Speaker 1: talk about the effects of the expansion here in the US,

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Speaker 1: we can easily see the past through the current and frankly,

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Speaker 1: the disturbing statistics. Like, all we have to do to

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Speaker 1: set the stage here is look at the statistics about

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Speaker 1: Native American income, health, and education here in the US,

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Speaker 1: and it's dire. It's improving now, but it's dire.

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Speaker 3: Native Americans are one of the most economically impoverished populations

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Speaker 3: within the United States. And let's just look at the

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Speaker 3: most recent year available when we're talking about income here,

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Speaker 3: as of twenty fifteen teen, the median household income for

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Speaker 3: a household that is identifying as Native American, it was

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Speaker 3: thirty seven thy two hundred and twenty seven, So that's

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Speaker 3: median yearly household income, and you compare that with the

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Speaker 3: nation as a whole, which has a median household income

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Speaker 3: of fifty three thousand, six hundred and fifty seven. There's

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Speaker 3: another thing here that we're you know, it's changing as

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Speaker 3: the day goes, especially as we're dealing with this new crisis.

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Speaker 3: But Native Americans in twenty fifteen at least have the

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Speaker 3: highest unemployment rate, and it's nine point nine percent in

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Speaker 3: twenty fifteen. That's the highest of any racial or ethnic

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Speaker 3: group or identifying ethnic group within the United States.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's important to remember we're talking about income

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Speaker 1: because income is a powerful income, like education is a

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Speaker 1: powerful predictor of health and life expectancy, and this income

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Speaker 1: disparity has some pretty profound consequences for the health and

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Speaker 1: well being of people in the Native American population. This

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Speaker 1: population also has a higher proportion of people who are

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Speaker 1: living in poverty. Twenty eight point three percent of people

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Speaker 1: identify as Native Americans live in poverty, and that, you know,

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Speaker 1: compare that to fifteen point five percent of the total population.

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Speaker 1: So it's outsize, you know, it's it's larger proportionally.

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Speaker 3: And just while we're on that subject of income and

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Speaker 3: unemployment within Native American populations, I'd love to talk just

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Speaker 3: briefly about this documentary that I watched in preparation for

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Speaker 3: this called Little Dream Catchers. You can find it on

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Speaker 3: YouTube right now if you if you search for it. It

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Speaker 3: deals with a single population. It's it's in Minnesota. It's

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Speaker 3: called the White Earth Nation and a reserve. It's a

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Speaker 3: reservation there. And one of the main is that you

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Speaker 3: listen to in this is Irma J. Wisner or a visitor,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how to pronounce it correctly. She's a

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Speaker 3: former White Earth Nation chairwoman, and she's got a pretty

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Speaker 3: powerful quote here talking about this subject.

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Speaker 5: During the Great Depression, when unemployment was twenty seven percent,

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Speaker 5: there was an outrage in this country, and yet we

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Speaker 5: have a great depression every day, year in and year out.

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Speaker 5: Education is our ticket out of poverty.

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Speaker 2: Here.

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Speaker 5: Eighty percent of a child's development takes place before five

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Speaker 5: years old, So it seems to be a no brainer

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Speaker 5: to me to focus in that area.

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Speaker 2: And like you said, Ben, that was.

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Speaker 5: From Irma J. Visner, former White Earth Nation sharewoman.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's a powerful quote. Specifically at the

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Speaker 3: end they're talking about how education is the way out,

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Speaker 3: and that is going to play in heavily to this episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's astute man, and this documentary is worth your time.

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Speaker 1: Do you check it out? Actually, there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of like great examinations of this in academia and easily

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Speaker 1: available on YouTube or online. But it doesn't seem it

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Speaker 1: still doesn't seem to get the attention that it needs

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Speaker 1: to get. So remember that we're talking about education and

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Speaker 1: how it affects health. So if we get to health,

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Speaker 1: we see some other disturbing numbers. Unlike a lot of

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Speaker 1: other what they would call racial or ethnic minority groups

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Speaker 1: in the US, Native American populations have legal rights to

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Speaker 1: federal health care services. And this is because of something

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Speaker 1: called the Snyder Act in nineteen twenty one and the

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Speaker 1: Indian Healthcare Improvement Act of nineteen seventy six. Together, those

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Speaker 1: sort of like vultron up and form the legislative authority

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Speaker 1: for the federal agency that we call the Indian Health

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Speaker 1: Service today. So one would think if we just knew

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Speaker 1: that that there would be maybe better health in general

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Speaker 1: in this population because of the game guaranteed right to

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Speaker 1: federal healthcare, which, as many people know, especially recently, most

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Speaker 1: Americans don't have. So the problem is this has not

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Speaker 1: erased the stark disparities in health. Native American populations, including

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Speaker 1: natives of Alaska, today have a life expectancy that's about

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Speaker 1: five point five years less than all of the other

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Speaker 1: populations of the US. However you want to slice them,

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Speaker 1: that's seventy three years to seventy eight point five years, respectively.

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Speaker 3: Another thing to note here is that American Indians and

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Speaker 3: Alaska Natives, so indigenous peoples, continue to die at higher

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Speaker 3: rates than any other Americans in a lot of categories.

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Speaker 3: And within this you're going to find chronic liver disease, cirrhosis, diabetes,

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Speaker 3: unintentional injuries, assaults, homicides, intentional self harm, in chronic lower

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Speaker 3: respiratory diseases. And that's not even to bring in the

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Speaker 3: drug issues within these populations because of other socioeconomic issues

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Speaker 3: that lead to a lot of these conditions.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's the same kind of things we

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Speaker 5: see in a lot of impoverished parts of the country

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Speaker 5: where like you know, things like opioids take hold or

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Speaker 5: things like methamphetamines, you know, I mean, it's definitely more

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Speaker 5: prevalent in areas that are economically depressed, because along with

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Speaker 5: being economically depressed often comes being psychologically depressed, and people

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Speaker 5: are looking for an escape, and these things can take

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Speaker 5: hold and further ravage those communities. And we have another

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Speaker 5: set of findings from the twenty ten National Intimate Partner

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Speaker 5: and Sexual Violence Survey that showed relative to white women,

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Speaker 5: Native American women are one point two times more likely

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Speaker 5: to have experienced violence in their lifetime, and that relative

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Speaker 5: to white men, Native American men are one point three

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Speaker 5: times more likely who have experienced violence in their lifetimes.

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Speaker 2: Really kind of staggering disparity there.

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Speaker 1: And when you know, we're pulling stats that are relatively

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Speaker 1: recent by which they're like, you know, maybe three to

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Speaker 1: ten years old now at this point for some of

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Speaker 1: these things. But we should note that the US Census,

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Speaker 1: if it is able to be completed during the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: may have updated statistics to reveal. And there are tons

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Speaker 1: of incredibly intelligent researchers and analysts who are working on

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Speaker 1: this data continually, so we always love to hear the updates.

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Speaker 1: All of this plays in so income, health. All of

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Speaker 1: this plays in in concert with education. The US educational

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Speaker 1: system this should not be a spoiler for anyone, has

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Speaker 1: historically been a source of tremendous discrimination and in a

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Speaker 1: lot of cases trauma for the Native population in North

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Speaker 1: America and Hawaii, and even today, multiple reports will say

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Speaker 1: that educational progress for Native Americans still lags behind that

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Speaker 1: of other demographics. There was a report that came out

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Speaker 1: from in twenty twelve from the National Center for Education

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Speaker 1: Statistics that said that Native American populations have the highest

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Speaker 1: high school dropout rate in the country that was at

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Speaker 1: fourteen point six percent. But while these statistics are disturbing

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Speaker 1: and you should be disturbed by hearing them, you have

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Speaker 1: to keep in mind they only paint a small part

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Speaker 1: of the portrait here, because you see the effects of

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Speaker 1: education on these populations have a secret history. They have

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Speaker 1: a secret, damning history, and it's one that a lot

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Speaker 1: of factions, people in past administrations, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: in government today don't really want you to pay too

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Speaker 1: much attention to what are we talking about, will tell

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Speaker 1: you after a word from our sponsor, here's where it

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Speaker 1: gets crazy.

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Speaker 5: So in the late nineteenth century, the United States government

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Speaker 5: forcibly removed Native American children from their homes, shipping them

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Speaker 5: off to different boarding schools in the hopes of assimilating

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Speaker 5: them to the United States as culture. This was only

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Speaker 5: one front in this culture war, which had begun long

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Speaker 5: long before that. The precedents were the idea of the

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Speaker 5: force assimilation that functioned in concert with forced removal from

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Speaker 5: Native land. It's the same way that the Minnesota Historical.

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Speaker 2: Society puts it. Quote.

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Speaker 5: As white population grew in the United States and people

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Speaker 5: settled further west toward the Mississippi in the late eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 5: there was an increasing pressure on the recently removed groups

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Speaker 5: to give up some of their new land.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is I like the way to put this here,

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Speaker 1: because what they're saying is the government had already forced

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Speaker 1: these native populations to move away, right if they're located

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Speaker 1: on the eastern seaboard, like think of the Trail of Tears.

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Speaker 1: And then in the late eighteen hundreds, they said, well,

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Speaker 1: we've got more European descended people who want to branch

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Speaker 1: out in this area. So let's get these people to

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Speaker 1: move again. Now we want the land that we gave

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Speaker 1: them earlier in eighteen thirty, the US forced Native Americans

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Speaker 1: to move west of the Mississippi to make room for

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Speaker 1: that expansion. You mentioned nol in what they called the

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Speaker 1: Indian Removal Act. And then just a few decades later,

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Speaker 1: Uncle Sam had a moment. I like to when I

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Speaker 1: think of supervillains like this, I like to think of

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Speaker 1: them as dark light bulb moments. They had a dark

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Speaker 1: light bulb moment and they said, you know what, if

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Speaker 1: we were running out of places to put these people,

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Speaker 1: we're running out of places to kick them to. We

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Speaker 1: have to figure out something else. And then another dark

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Speaker 1: light bulb pops on and someone says, since there's no

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Speaker 1: more land to push them toward, why don't we make

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Speaker 1: them like us? Why don't we pull the same kind

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Speaker 1: of move the borg pulls in Star Trek. Why don't

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Speaker 1: we forcibly assimilate them?

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Speaker 2: This is really rough. This is really rough.

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Speaker 3: I want to read another quote from that documentary I

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Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, The Little Dream Catchers. This is another quote

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Speaker 3: from Irma J. Weisener, and she says, quote, Historically, the

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Speaker 3: purpose of education for us as tribal people has been assimilation.

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Speaker 3: If we go back to the boarding school era of

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Speaker 3: the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. The purpose then, along with churches,

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Speaker 3: was to eradicate tribal culture, language, and traditions, and to

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Speaker 3: assimilate and civilize us, to christianize us. So our children

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Speaker 3: were taken away over one hundred thousand in the boarding schools.

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Speaker 3: The children were punished for speaking the language. The loss

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Speaker 3: of language, the loss of culture, the loss of tradition,

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Speaker 3: the loss of family, the loss of community. That brokenness

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Speaker 3: is generational, and there's historical trauma attributed to it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And the idea of trauma passed down through generations

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Speaker 5: has always been really fascinating to me. There's some kind

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Speaker 5: of study that indicates that it can actually be passed

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Speaker 5: down almost through genes, you know, through epigenetics, and that's

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Speaker 5: fascinating to me on a whole other level. But of

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Speaker 5: course it's going to happen just experientially, especially in this

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Speaker 5: kind of situation.

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Speaker 3: Then you said it, you said it earlier. Just the

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Speaker 3: concept of someone coming in and ripping your children from

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Speaker 3: you and taking them somewhere else and putting them in school,

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Speaker 3: the dark lifeight bulb moment like that. They had there

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Speaker 3: to assimilate them, but the way they chose to go

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Speaker 3: about it here is just so heinous.

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Speaker 1: So how did this situation begin? How did we get

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Speaker 1: from what we started to establish with pushing people out

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Speaker 1: to what they're exploring in that quote, it really kicks

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Speaker 1: into gearin in the eighteen hundreds and the late eighteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen eighty five, there's a guy named Hiram Price.

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Speaker 1: He's the then Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and he explains

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Speaker 1: the logic here by saying, simply, quote, it is cheaper

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Speaker 1: to give them education than to fight them. In eighteen ninety,

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Speaker 1: the US government ended official open warfare against Native American tribes.

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Speaker 1: And this was a very long war. It started in

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Speaker 1: the seventeenth century tree and it was it was exacerbated

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Speaker 1: and reached a bloody height throughout the nineteenth century. And

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Speaker 1: this had a terrible, terrible effect on the native populations.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about a huge group of unique, distinct cultures

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Speaker 1: that numbered in the millions and millions of people, and

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Speaker 1: now the population had plummeted to around two hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand. A lot of these communities were also confined

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Speaker 1: to reservations, and those reservations were a little sliver of

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Speaker 1: their traditional land. So what do you do when you

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Speaker 1: want to get into the you know, quote hearts and

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Speaker 1: minds of a people, when you want to change the

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Speaker 1: fabric of who they are, you start with their children.

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Speaker 1: You always start with their children. And that's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's why, at the risk of sound and crafts, Wu

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Speaker 1: tang is for the kids. Our species does this to

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Speaker 1: each other because it has such a powerful effect, even

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Speaker 1: when it's not even when the effects are not what

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Speaker 1: the instigators intended. So the goal became assimilation, to transform

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Speaker 1: Native American populations into quote, good Christian citizens. One school

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Speaker 1: founder put it this way. It's relatively offensive. Quote. It's

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Speaker 1: the one that lives on in infamy. They said, kill

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Speaker 1: the Indian in him and we will save the man.

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Speaker 2: Yikes.

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Speaker 1: Spooky stuff, terrifying.

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Speaker 3: So how did they go about attempting to kill the

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Speaker 3: Indian metaphorically?

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Speaker 2: Here?

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Speaker 3: They started places like the Carlisle Indian School. It's the

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Speaker 3: full name is the Carlisle Indian Industrial School. It was

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Speaker 3: founded in eighteen seventy nine. It was a military barracks

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Speaker 3: at one point that had been renovated. It was in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 3: and it was founded by Richard Henry.

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Speaker 2: Pratt, who is is at the.

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Speaker 3: Time when he's founding it a captain in the army.

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Speaker 3: This place, the Carlisle School, it was the first federally

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Speaker 3: funded off reservation Indian boarding school, and it's definitely it's

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Speaker 3: the thing that it became the model basically.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we should note too that Pratt, who later went

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Speaker 1: on to become a general in the army, he considered

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Speaker 1: himself somewhat progressive, and a lot of the people the

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Speaker 1: European American population that supported these schools also considered themselves progressive.

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Speaker 1: They said they thought they were saving people, they thought

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Speaker 1: they were working toward a greater good, and we know

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Speaker 1: how that usually turns out. Carlisle said that he said

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Speaker 1: something that sounds respectable at first. He says, look, Native

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Speaker 1: Americans are equal to European Americans. And he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna the point of Carlisle School is to immerse

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Speaker 1: these children, and again these are children at different ages.

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Speaker 1: Immerse these children into mainstream European American culture, and then

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Speaker 1: they'll be able to advance themselves. They'll thrive in the

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Speaker 1: dominant European American society, and then bonus points, they'll return

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Speaker 1: to their own, their own lands, their own communities, and

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Speaker 1: they'll become agents of assimilation themselves.

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Speaker 5: Which is particularly borglike if you really think about it

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Speaker 5: from through the lens of it being a kind of

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Speaker 5: pernicious thing that's being done, as opposed to this whole

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Speaker 5: magnanimous lens of looking at it. If anyone out there

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Speaker 5: wants an extra deep dive into some of this stuff,

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Speaker 5: O our sister podcast, Stuff You Miss in History Class

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Speaker 5: has a great episode about the history of Indian schools

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Speaker 5: just as a concept, and recommend that as a little bit,

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Speaker 5: you know, more of a if you want to take

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Speaker 5: this information a little further.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 5: Carlisle's school became the model for twenty six Bureau of

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Speaker 5: Indian Affairs boarding schools in fifteen states and territories, plus

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Speaker 5: hundreds of private boarding schools sponsored by religious denominations. Over time,

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Speaker 5: the school would become home to over ten thousand Native

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Speaker 5: American children from one hundred and forty different tribes, and

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Speaker 5: it was by no means the only one of its kind.

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Speaker 5: Missionaries had been doing something similar for centuries to your point,

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Speaker 5: been earlier across the world under that guise of saving people,

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Speaker 5: saving the you know, converting the heathens or whatever, the

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Speaker 5: unwashed masses or whatever. This whole idea of we're doing

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Speaker 5: you as solid you should appreciate this, the battle for

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Speaker 5: hearts and minds.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, and speak of deep dives. There's a book

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Speaker 1: on this we'd like to recommend. It came out back

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Speaker 1: in six It's called Children Left Behind The Dark Legacy

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Speaker 1: of Indian Mission Boarding Schools by Tim Gago So Giago,

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Speaker 1: So do check that out, but do be warned that

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Speaker 1: these are these are not pleasant afternoon podcast or books.

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Speaker 1: You know, you will probably not be in a good

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Speaker 1: mood after you read them, and you shouldn't be. And

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Speaker 1: I appreciate your point nowe about this scale of this practice, right,

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Speaker 1: this battle for you know, a culture has sometimes been

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Speaker 1: described as the soul of a people, so in a way,

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Speaker 1: in a metaphorical way, this is a battle for the

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Speaker 1: souls of these communities. We want to pause for a

436
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,479
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and then we're going to return

437
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: and give you a sense of the scale here and

438
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: a sense of the day to day experience of these children.

439
00:27:53,400 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: And we're back. So by nineteen hundred, this is still continuing.

440
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: It was a spoiler heads up, we'll tell you at

441
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: the end. But this went on for much longer than

442
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: a lot of people would think. By nineteen hundred, there

443
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: were three hundred and seven boarding schools and day schools

444
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: across the country. They educated more than twenty six thousand

445
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: Native students of all types of ages, from all types

446
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: of communities and tribes. The difference quickly between a day

447
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: school and a boarding school is that a day school

448
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: is what a lot of people grew up with. Right,

449
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: you go to school, maybe seven thirty, eight thirty or whatever.

450
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: You get out sometime in the afternoon, you go home, rense,

451
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: and repeat Monday through Friday. A boarding school is a

452
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: little more intense because you live on the campus, you

453
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: can't really go anywhere, and your parents have a much

454
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: higher bar to access if they want to see you,

455
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: to check on you, to make sure things are going

456
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: all right. So we can see the extent of the

457
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: practice here, but we have to ask ourselves what did

458
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: these schools, these institute and their supporters actually do. How

459
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: did they get the kids? How about that? Let's start

460
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: with that.

461
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, the first thing is that the school itself

462
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 3: wasn't given as some kind of carte blanche or something

463
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: to act outside of the law to just go around

464
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 3: kidnapping kids. They weren't supposed to be kidnapping children. And

465
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 3: you know, there were certainly some parents out there, you know,

466
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 3: who knows how many numbers, there's no way to tell,

467
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 3: But there were some parents within the Native American populations

468
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 3: that did see it as an opportunity for their kids

469
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: to both learn English, learn other skills that were going

470
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 3: to be provided, you know, at that kind of school,

471
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 3: and they saw it as a real opportunity. But there

472
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 3: were a lot more people that saw this of these

473
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 3: institutions rather than the people who were running them. They

474
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 3: saw it as not schools at all. They saw it

475
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: as a machine, a part of you know, someone who

476
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: came a group that came along and took both took

477
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 3: their kids and wanted to change their kids so they

478
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 3: wouldn't be like them anymore. And we get we get

479
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: this stuff from sapiens dot org. That's s A p

480
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 3: i e n s dot org.

481
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a really great article called Native American Children's

482
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 5: Historic Forced Assimilation by Lindsay M. Montgomery and Chip Calwell

483
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 5: from this year, actually from the fifth of March of

484
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 5: twenty twenty. And it's not to say that parents just

485
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 5: allowed their children to be taken all the time. You know,

486
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 5: there was absolutely resistance, as you could imagine if you

487
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 5: you know, have a child or have you know, had

488
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 5: been charged with the care of a youngster, to have

489
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 5: that child ripped away from you and taken forcibly would

490
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 5: not sit well with most parents or guardians. But folks

491
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 5: who you know resisted were punished quite severely in the

492
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 5: most cruel ways imaginable. Folks that were implementing these these

493
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 5: policies would hold back food rations, and families were already

494
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 5: operating on razor thin margins of sustenance, you know, So

495
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 5: to have that held over your head, I mean, that's

496
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 5: a pretty that's the equivalent of having a gun pointed

497
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 5: at you, and that actually happened too. Oftentimes, fathers who

498
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 5: fought back were sent to prison, and in some very

499
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 5: extreme cases but not unheard of, there would be law

500
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 5: enforcement officials who would literally kidnap these children while holding

501
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 5: a gun on the parents.

502
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: So you don't have to be a lawyer to know

503
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: the first things. First, what does that mean? It means

504
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: they were kidnapping children full stop. Means in some cases

505
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: they were forcibly kidnapping children. And now, how do we

506
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: define their mission what they do with these kids. Well,

507
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: it's similar to some of those quotes we had mentioned earlier.

508
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: You could define it in two words, one to civilize

509
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: and two to Christianize. What I find interesting about that

510
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: is there's not really at this time a difference, you

511
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Even the secular schools, like the

512
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: ones that were state supported and built in renovated military barracks,

513
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: even those were still teaching children some version of Christianity, right,

514
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: and you know, they can be defined as much by

515
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: what they did not allow children to do as what

516
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: they did allow them to do. One of the first

517
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: things you would do when you got there is you

518
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: got a new name, and you could not use your name.

519
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 1: You had to, you know, if they call it. If

520
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: they were like, all right, your new name is Norman

521
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: or Janine or something like that, then you would be

522
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: punished if you were like, no, my name is you know,

523
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: something different. And then the kids also had to get

524
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: their haircut, which is weirdly specific to what was considered

525
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: a European American style haircut. They were, of course forbidden

526
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: from speaking their native language. There are a lot of

527
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: similarities with this and the Weiger rehdgidcation camps that are

528
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: that are currently still in operation in Western China.

529
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 3: Think about what that means. Those three, those three things

530
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 3: that bends outline there. Your identity, you're the thing that

531
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 3: you the person that you saw yourself as. The way

532
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 3: your hairstyle reminds you of maybe your father's or your

533
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 3: mothers or your grandparents. The language that is being spoken

534
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 3: to you in your home that you've grown up with,

535
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: that you speak much better than any other language, especially English.

536
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 3: You are you're punished for speaking that. This is this

537
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 3: is some intense psychological conditioning that's going on at these schools.

538
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken.

539
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 5: There's a really fantastic series on HBO is called Bury

540
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 5: My Heart at Wounded Me that was based on a

541
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 5: book of the same name, and it was about just

542
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 5: the conflict between and you know, it was with sitting

543
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 5: bull and all of that.

544
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: And I'm almost.

545
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 5: Positive there that was sort of the last vestiges of

546
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 5: truly tribal, you know, Indian culture in the West, kind

547
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 5: of living out their lives as normal before all of this,

548
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 5: you know, like.

549
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: Reservations and stuff kicked.

550
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 5: I mean, they were still reservd I'm sorry I'm not

551
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 5: remembering fully well what the story was, but there was

552
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 5: a character in that film who was an assimilated Native

553
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 5: American boy, and that it became a story point of

554
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 5: his disconnect from the you know, his people who were living,

555
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 5: you know, as they had always lived for so many generations.

556
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 5: And it became a very complicated thing for that character

557
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,439
Speaker 5: to kind of struggle with because on the one hand,

558
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 5: he looks at his caretakers as being kind and positive

559
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 5: and helpful and teaching him and giving him food to

560
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 5: eat all that, but then he sees that he's a

561
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 5: little different and.

562
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 2: Is having a hard time reconciling all of that.

563
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 3: I wanted to We will bring in another quote here

564
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 3: before we get into some of the even the more

565
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 3: physical dangers that the children had to face in these places.

566
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 3: If that's okay. It's just another quock quote from that documentary.

567
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 3: And this quote comes from a Barb Faber Fabre. She's

568
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: the director of the White Earth Child's Care Center there

569
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 3: on the reservation, and her quote is, many children were

570
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 3: ripped from their families, loaded onto trucks and not seeing

571
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: their parents for years. We're talking generations where parents couldn't

572
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 3: be parents, and so now you're seeing parents who maybe

573
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 3: don't know how to parent because they did not receive parenting.

574
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 3: And I think that really is a heavy concept to

575
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 3: think about here, But just being taken away from your

576
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 3: family like that, having your identity completely removed, and then

577
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 3: going back home at some point and not really recognizing

578
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 3: yourself or your immediate family because of the way you've

579
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 3: been changed.

580
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

581
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: And that was one of you know, that's the thing

582
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: like the old programming joke, it's not a bug, it's

583
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: it's a feature. Right, This was purposeful and at this

584
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: point we don't want to be too incredibly graphic, but

585
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: you know, as you might expect, there was a wealth

586
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 1: of abuse that occurred here as well as death through neglect.

587
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: There are multiple documented cases of physical abuse, of forced

588
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: manual labor, of sexual abuse with children as young as

589
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: nine years old, and then of course emotional abuse. How

590
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: could it not be an emotionally abusive situation for a

591
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: kid to be forced to do these things? And many

592
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: of those documented cases come from the church run institutions,

593
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: but that, by no means is meant to imply that

594
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: the quote unquote secular institutions were any better. One interesting

595
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: thing that bears thinking about is that due to the

596
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: living conditions, these children were also exposed to diseases that

597
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: could sometimes be fatal, like measles. There's this article in

598
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: The Atlantic that came out last year, Death by Civilization,

599
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: by Mary Annette Pember and Maryonnette Pember is the daughter

600
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: of a woman who was forced to live at one

601
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: of these boarding schools, and in this in her conversations

602
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: with her mother, she learns, like her mother says, education

603
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: was something that was done to us, not with us

604
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: or for us. And one of the things that really

605
00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: hit home for me is that she described a culture

606
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 1: of pervasive physical and sexual abuse at the school. Food

607
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: and access to medical care were sometimes denied as punishment,

608
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: and they were scarce to begin with. And because of that,

609
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: whether through violence or neglect, many children died and sometimes

610
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: their parents, especially the boarding schools, only learned that their

611
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: child had died after the kid had been buried in

612
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: a school cemetery, some of which some of those graves

613
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: are unmarked, I.

614
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 3: Believe today, and done generally in the Christian tradition, so

615
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 3: probably not in any way the traditions that have been

616
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 3: used by the Native American families.

617
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that can be a real deal breaker, you know,

618
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 5: culturally speaking, I mean that you know, they would really

619
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 5: truly believe that that individual's soul did not end up

620
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 5: where it needed to go in the afterlife. That goes

621
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 5: along with their belief system. So in a way, it's

622
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 5: a form of like psychological terrorism, you know, I mean,

623
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 5: I mean, I know it wasn't looked at that way,

624
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 5: but it is truly a absolute bastardization of people's most

625
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 5: sacredly held beliefs. And it's just I can't wrap my

626
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 5: head around it. It's just a total myopic worldview that

627
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 5: just bugs me in general. When people are so hung

628
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 5: up on my way is the only way no one

629
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 5: else can have their own ideas, their own beliefs. That

630
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 5: just really is one of my biggest pet peeves of

631
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 5: all of this kind of stuff.

632
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, well said, This practice again is continuing in the

633
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred so into the twentieth century. As a matter

634
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 1: of fact, it was continuing less than a century ago.

635
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty eight, this thing comes out called the

636
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: Merriam Report. This is the first semi comprehensive study of

637
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: conditions for Native people since an earlier I think six

638
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: volume report that came back that came out in the

639
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 1: eighteen fifties, so it's been decades and decades, and they

640
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: are issuing a criticism and a condemnation of situations at

641
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: these schools. One of the big things is they said

642
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: infectious disease is widespread, not just because of overcrowding, but

643
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: because these kids are malnourished. There aren't good sanitary practices

644
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: in place, the staff isn't keeping up what we would

645
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: consider safety standards for a school nowadays, and the kids

646
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: were weakened by overwork. Like at Carlisle Indian Industrial School.

647
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: These kids were working, you know what I mean. They

648
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: weren't just being forced to learn scripture and stuff. Death

649
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: rates at this time in these schools, according to this

650
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty eight report, were six and a half times

651
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: higher than for any other group in the United States.

652
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: And this is where we get into maybe some conspiratorial territory,

653
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: because you have to wonder how much of this was purposeful,

654
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: how much of it was any of this like designed

655
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: to slowly kill actual people instead of just their culture.

656
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: Because so many contemporaneous accounts show people saying that they're

657
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: coming from a progressive place I think it's maybe just

658
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: they didn't have the follow through. I just it seems

659
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 1: like such an evil plan, doesn't it. It doesn't seem

660
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: like a progressive plan. Maybe that's because we're in twenty twenty.

661
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: But they did see some benefits. You know, from Uncle

662
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: Sam's perspective that one of the biggest benefits was the money.

663
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: It was just cost effective. It's actually it's weird. It

664
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: reminds me a little bit of their argument is that

665
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: erasing this culture this way through assimilation is less expensive

666
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: for the bottom line than it would be to wage

667
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: continual war against these communities, which is a brutal way

668
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: to look at it.

669
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would definitely say money how a lot to

670
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 3: do with it. Just you really only have to think

671
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: about the fact that the Models school was based in

672
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: a barracks and started and led by, you know, a

673
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 3: member of the military. And when you think about those

674
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 3: two things, you either are going to fight these groups

675
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 3: with ammunition and men who some of them will die,

676
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 3: or the on the other side, build a school that

677
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: then stays there forever and can continually bring the children

678
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 3: through or at least forever in the minds of the

679
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 3: people who are starting the program.

680
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: Well, well, let's call it what it is too.

681
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 5: I mean, it is a militaristic forced camp essentially, I

682
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 5: mean it is it is. It's not a labor camp,

683
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 5: but it is a camp of forced something. They're not

684
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 5: forcing them to labor on behalf of the military, but

685
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 5: they're forcing them to become a thing that then can

686
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 5: be used.

687
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: Later by the military.

688
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 5: And it's even more pernicious because it's happening without these

689
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 5: children's consent of absolutely without the consent of their their

690
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 5: their parents, and then they're turning them into a pawn

691
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 5: and and they're you know, they're great game.

692
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's absolutely true. This, this idea, this incredibly cold,

693
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: almost reptilian concept to the bottom line, reminds me of

694
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: a of another argument that we can make about the

695
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: current prison system of the United States. Did you know

696
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: you did? I don't know if people check. I know,

697
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: I know that we talked about this maybe years ago.

698
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: But it is so much cheaper to send a kid

699
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 1: to college than it is to send them to prison,

700
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: and certain Yeah, and the benefits to society are substantial

701
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 1: and measurable.

702
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 3: Well, it depends on how you want your society to look,

703
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 3: because that kid that goes to college becomes a weapon

704
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 3: of change, a weapon of you know, being able to

705
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 3: bring other people into a better understanding of the situations

706
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 3: that all of us find ourselves in. Right I think

707
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 3: I think you're drawing a line of comparison there with

708
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 3: prison populations and perhaps, let's say non white people who

709
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 3: are in prison, anyone who finds themselves to be brown

710
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 3: or black. We've talked about this, as you said, Ben,

711
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 3: and it feels very similar to this. I'm feeling a

712
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 3: lot of connections here to the modern day Nixon and

713
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 3: Reagan stuff that we've talked about.

714
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 5: And by the way, I don't know who it was

715
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 5: the setup, but somebody a friend of mine said during

716
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 5: this COVID situation that we're dealing with right now, they

717
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 5: need to just let all the low level offenders just

718
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 5: out of prison because they're essentially, you know, being condemned

719
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 5: to potentially death from being in these prison populations and

720
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 5: getting these diseases.

721
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 2: This disease.

722
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I know for sure some countries have

723
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: really he's exactly what you're describing your friends, describing low

724
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 1: level prisoners. I think some I want to say that

725
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: some US areas have done it. But I don't have confirmation,

726
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 1: and you know, I see exactly what you're saying, because

727
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, I don't know. It's weird.

728
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: Like Harvey Weinstein managed to get special treatment in prison,

729
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: right because of the COVID nineteen concerns. Did you guys

730
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: hear about that?

731
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 5: I mean, like he wasn't already gonna get some special treatment.

732
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 5: But it doesn't surprise me. Yeah, yeah, because he's.

733
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 2: So old and frail and like, oh, poor Harvey.

734
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: You know, oh my gosh.

735
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

736
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: How do judges feel, you know, when they see people

737
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 1: like that walking in suddenly on a walker? I don't

738
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: want to sound.

739
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 5: Cold, No, it reminds me of the ambulance chasers who

740
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 5: put a neck brace on their clients, you know, to

741
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 5: get some goodwill points from the jury or whatever. It's

742
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 5: such an old con that you think judges would just

743
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 5: roll their eyes at it immediately, you know.

744
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: God, yeah, but yes, you're you're absolutely right, your friends,

745
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: absolutely right. The situation with the pandemic in prisons, it's

746
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: it's a powder keke it's waiting to explode if it

747
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: hasn't exploded already, and there are riots happening over it

748
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: here in the US in prisons. So we talked about this,

749
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: the benefits to the US government for this practice, what

750
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: they saw as the benefits they thought, you know, just

751
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 1: like we were talking about earlier. The idea was for

752
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: the children to study there and then go back to

753
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: their community and change. But this, this theory didn't account

754
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: for the intense PTSD these kids would encount would experience.

755
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: It didn't account for how disconnected and alienated they would

756
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: feel from their communities. It also clearly it irreparably weakened

757
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: the family structure, you know what I mean. Like, imagine

758
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: you're imagine you're like an elder kid in your family

759
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 1: and you get kidnapped, and you're there for a few years,

760
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,959
Speaker 1: You survive, you come back and there are two more kids, right,

761
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: and those kids, let's say they're both like four, They

762
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: have no idea who you are. You're maybe a name

763
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: that they've heard. But you've grown up now for years

764
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: being forced to answer to Andrew or something, right, This

765
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: is damaging.

766
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, and not to mention the can you imagine how

767
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 5: powerless and just emasculated you must feel, as like, you know,

768
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 5: a head of a household. I say emasculated because obviously

769
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 5: the head of the household, you know, in these days

770
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 5: would have been considered the male. But you know, the

771
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 5: ability to not be able to protect your children, you

772
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 5: know that that has serious psychological implications over time, and

773
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,479
Speaker 5: it leads to the kind of things we're talking about

774
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 5: with the drug abuse problems and the and the suicidal

775
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 5: ideations and just the generational mental health issues that go

776
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 5: along with these communities. I mean, it really is a

777
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 5: precedent that started farther back than even this, obviously, but

778
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 5: this is sure as a biggie, you know, I can't imagine.

779
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: And now we want to answer the question that we

780
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: alluded to earlier in the episode. When did this grim

781
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: practice end? We haven't really talked about it, and that's

782
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: because it wasn't until the late nineteen seventies that Congress

783
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 1: finally outlawed the forced removal of Native children from their

784
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 1: families nineteen seventy. Some of our fellow listeners are alive

785
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: when that happened. The late nineteen seventies. It's insane, that's

786
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: just a few years before some of us were born.

787
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: History is not over, and now even now, like it's

788
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: understandable that historians are still working to gauge the full

789
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 1: extent of the damage wrought by these programs. And they're

790
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: still discovering bodies of children.

791
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

792
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 3: In August seventh, twenty seventeen, the United States Army, same

793
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 3: group that you know helped begin these schools, they exhume

794
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 3: the or began exhuming the graves of the bodies of

795
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 3: three children who originated from the Northern Arapaho tribe. These

796
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 3: three children died at that Carlisle Indian Industrial School in

797
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 3: the eighteen eighties. The children's names were Little Chief Horse

798
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,919
Speaker 3: and Little Plume, And those names were not the names

799
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 3: that they were called while they were at the school.

800
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 3: Those were their actual names.

801
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 5: Can you imagine being denied your name? I mean, we

802
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 5: take it for granted, but it's such a you take,

803
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 5: you know, we live with it. And then if one

804
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 5: day someone said you're not null anymore, you're something else

805
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,720
Speaker 5: that I say you are. It's a powerful psychological tool

806
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 5: to remove somebody's name, and like, it's the same as

807
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 5: giving someone a number, you know, in a prison system

808
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 5: or whatever. You are making them your slave essentially, or

809
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 5: at least at the very least, you are making them

810
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,919
Speaker 5: an other. And you are like, you know, above them

811
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 5: and they are now your property and you tell them

812
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,879
Speaker 5: what to do and they jump when you say jump.

813
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 5: It's it's really to do this with children, there's the

814
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 5: thing that really it's just unconscionable.

815
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: I would see, yeah, i'd see definitely with Julia. I

816
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: think it's disgusting to do it with people. Like if

817
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: you give someone a nickname they don't like, or they say,

818
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 1: don't call me that, you know, Like, sometimes I'm very

819
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: careful when I meet people to you know, if they

820
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 1: have a name that has a couple of common derivations,

821
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: even it's just a small thing, and I want to

822
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: ask them, what what do you want to be called?

823
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: Because sometimes people are so beaten down that they feel

824
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: like they don't have a right to have the name

825
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: they want, which everybody does, you know what I mean?

826
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: And yes, does it always work out for me?

827
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 4: No?

828
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:51,919
Speaker 1: I me met some guy in his fifties one time

829
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: who wanted to be called like snake bite. But that

830
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 1: was his choice and I'm not in charge of his life.

831
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: So so, snake bite, if you're listening, I hope you're

832
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 1: having a great day.

833
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: We see you, snake, but yeah.

834
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: There we go, We see you and we know that

835
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: this was This is a very I mean, depressing doesn't

836
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: cover it episode, especially because there are a lot of

837
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: things here that will never get solved. We'll understand more

838
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 1: about the extent of the consequences in the fallout from

839
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: this practice, but we'll probably never know the full extent,

840
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: the full human extent of it. And we want to

841
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: know what you think about this situation. Is there is

842
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: there even more to the story, what discoveries are going

843
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 1: to happen. If you are listening and you're not in

844
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: the United States, have you experienced things like this or

845
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 1: do you know of things like this in your country

846
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: or your region's past. If you are listening and you

847
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: are in the US and you have personal experience with this,

848
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: what steps do you feel that the government has taken

849
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: to address this and do you feel those steps are adequate?

850
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: If not, what should be done? We want to hear

851
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: from you.

852
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 3: One thing I would like to point out here is

853
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 3: that documentary that I keep bringing up, because really it's

854
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 3: one of the main things that really touched me when

855
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 3: I was prepping for this episode. They're at the White

856
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 3: Earth Nation in Minnesota, at the reservation there. One of

857
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 3: the strategies they're taking is to use education to bring

858
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 3: children of very young ages at least introduce them and

859
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 3: bring them back into the culture of their ancestors just

860
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 3: a little bit or as much as they can so

861
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 3: doing a lot of the old traditions, speaking the language

862
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 3: and learning the language when in school, and for them

863
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 3: it seems to be having a very positive effect on

864
00:52:55,719 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 3: this new generation who will eventually be the leaders whose

865
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 3: parents maybe have had to deal with the immediate the

866
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,720
Speaker 3: immediate fallout to these schools into the elimination of culture

867
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 3: and tradition. So I would just say I think that

868
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 3: is one way forward, at least for some of the

869
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 3: Native American populations within the US.

870
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: Well said man, thanks for ending us on a positive

871
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: note today, as we said, or as positive as one

872
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: could be in this situation, as you said. We want

873
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: to hear from you. We hope this episode finds you well.

874
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,879
Speaker 1: Regardless of where you live and regardless of which room

875
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: you find yourself stuck intoday, let us know your thoughts

876
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 1: and speak with our fellow listeners. You, specifically, you are

877
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: the best part of this show. You can find us

878
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: on Facebook, you can find us on Instagram, you can

879
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter. Not just as people, but as individuals.

880
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, if you want to find me, I am exclusively

881
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 5: on Instagram at how Now Noel Brown. As the cabin

882
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 5: fever is setting in, I'm finding more random things to post.

883
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 5: Made some tied I T shirts with my daughter the

884
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 5: other day and that was a delight. And then we

885
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 5: also made some homemade chapstick because the madness has truly

886
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 5: taken hold.

887
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 2: My friends.

888
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 3: You can find me, Matt Frederick underscore iHeart something to

889
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 3: that effect. Good luck to you if you can find it.

890
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 2: You've won the win, Matt, What do they win?

891
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 3: You just win because you looked for something that you

892
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,479
Speaker 3: didn't need to and you won't find anything new there,

893
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 3: but you still took the journey.

894
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: You win a sense of accomplishment.

895
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:37,399
Speaker 3: That's right.

896
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 1: You can also find me on Instagram. I'm at Ben Bolan.

897
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Ben Bolan HSW.

898
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: You know you can turn off the lights in a

899
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: room with a mirror and just say some stuff a

900
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 1: few times. We'll see what happens. Schedules are busy. If

901
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: you don't like to mess with social media, boy, do

902
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 1: we have good news for you. We a phone number.

903
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:06,280
Speaker 3: Yes, it is one eight three three st d WYTK.

904
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 3: Give us a call, leave a message, and we will

905
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 3: be listening to it. We've all got the log in.

906
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 3: We're all in there now. It's not just me anymore.

907
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,399
Speaker 3: And we've been downloading a ton of messages writing out

908
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 3: who who you are, what you've said. We're pretty excited.

909
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 3: We're going to be diving into it pretty soon.

910
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 2: And if you don't want to do any of that

911
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 2: stuff and you just want to.

912
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 5: You know, communicate with us the old fashioned way. No,

913
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 5: don't send us a letter. You could if you wanted to.

914
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 5: We don't only give out a mailing address. You could

915
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 5: find that though, if you really did some digging, that'd

916
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 5: be another fun scavenger hunt for you to do. But

917
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 5: you can send us a good old fashioned email.

918
00:55:41,560 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

919
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

920
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

921
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.