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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey Aron, welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcasts

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Speaker 1: with Me, Tom Berducci, and of course Joe Madden.

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Speaker 2: Joe.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of news to get to, but we

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Speaker 1: do have to start with Rafael Devers. What saga going

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Speaker 1: on in Boston now in San Francisco. The trade of

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Speaker 1: Rafael Devers to the Giants stunned a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: You don't see a lot of trades in June, Joe especially.

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Speaker 1: We have never seen a player with a contract this

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Speaker 1: long traded this early into the contract.

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Speaker 3: But it is done.

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Speaker 1: Give me your quick reactions to something that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people did not see coming.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, too many chefs. It really started from them, absolutely

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Speaker 4: from the beginning. The way it was handled early on,

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Speaker 4: I think really led to this particular moment. Of course,

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Speaker 4: I'm not in the room, so I don't hear all

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Speaker 4: the conversations. However, just imagine, you know, situations like this,

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Speaker 4: We've talked about it before, the Jack Ryan meth that

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Speaker 4: you just it's just got to be straight up from

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Speaker 4: Jump Street. You got to start the conversation out, don't

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Speaker 4: hold anything back, don't worry.

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Speaker 2: About hurting anybody's feelings.

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Speaker 4: Just give everybody the truth from from the beginning, from

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Speaker 4: Jump Street, and a lot of this possibly could have

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Speaker 4: been averted. And furtherm we're a more complete plan. It

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Speaker 4: just seems like, listen, I'm these are smart people, but

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Speaker 4: to think it all the way through regarding here, we're

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Speaker 4: going to do this, and this is better for the team.

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Speaker 4: Breglan is a better player at their base. Of course

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Speaker 4: it's all true. But then when you talk to Devers

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Speaker 4: the first time, worried about hurting his feelings, not giving

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Speaker 4: him the full money. And I think the biggest mistake

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Speaker 4: was to tell him to forget about his glove. I mean,

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Speaker 4: if they had done all of this and just set

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Speaker 4: it up and he understood, listen, we think this is

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Speaker 4: right for now, but I want you to continue to

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Speaker 4: take ground balls at third base and at first base

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Speaker 4: because we believes something may.

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Speaker 2: Happen down the road.

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Speaker 4: And like I said, I think we talked to you about

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Speaker 4: this before. Let him even play a couple of games.

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Speaker 4: Give Fregman a day off, give the first basement a

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Speaker 4: day off. Keep him solvent because he was kind of

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Speaker 4: emasculated from Jump Street at an early young guys when

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Speaker 4: they're that young and they're asked to not to just

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Speaker 4: be a DH.

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Speaker 2: It's hard. It's hard.

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Speaker 4: I mean I ran into what the Angels back in

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Speaker 4: the day. We had four good outfielders and Edmund Sam

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Speaker 4: and Anderson and Erstad, and we decided that well, well

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Speaker 4: just DH one once, you know, rotate the DH among

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Speaker 4: the four, we're gonna be fine.

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Speaker 2: They hated it.

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Speaker 4: They absolutely hated it, and it was it. Really we

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Speaker 4: had to eventually get out of that. Young guys don't

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Speaker 4: like to do that. So for a variety of different reasons,

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Speaker 4: it ended up this way, and it obviously indicates they

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Speaker 4: felt they probably felt as thill, a lot of their

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Speaker 4: mediocrity has been pretty much engulfed in this this controversy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I like you to take that.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was a mistake not adjusting slute him defensively.

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Speaker 1: It just I don't understand why that wasn't done in

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Speaker 1: the first place. Just say, you're a better baseball player

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Speaker 1: by just continuing to work on the field. I'm not

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Speaker 1: throwing you out there seven days a week, but just

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Speaker 1: to quote unquote put the glove away, huge mistake.

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Speaker 3: Here's what I don't get, Joe in this day and age.

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Speaker 1: You know, can you why can't you just tell the player,

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Speaker 1: especially after the injury to cause us at first base,

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Speaker 1: we need you to play first base period. You know,

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Speaker 1: why are you walking on eggshells? Why are you letting

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Speaker 1: the players say, well, no, you told me I'm not

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Speaker 1: a defender, so I'm not going to defend.

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Speaker 3: There were two opportunities.

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Speaker 1: Cossas goes down at first base, Bregmant goes down at

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Speaker 1: third base. The guy with the longest term contract on

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Speaker 1: your team said no, he's not playing those positions. On

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Speaker 1: the face of that, that just strikes me as almost unfathomable.

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Speaker 1: And why a team doesn't say, you know what, tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: meet us at four o'clock, three o'clock ground balls at

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Speaker 1: first base. We know it's a difficult transition. We're not

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Speaker 1: saying you're going to do this right away, but we're

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Speaker 1: gonna start taking ground balls toward the end of making

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Speaker 1: us a better team. It was never really done. I

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Speaker 1: don't understand that you're right.

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Speaker 4: I can't argue that that's wonderful logic. You're one hundred

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Speaker 4: percent correct, But it's not just in baseball. We were

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Speaker 4: you know, the inmates in the asylum analogy. It's just

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Speaker 4: gotten to that point.

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Speaker 2: Joe.

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Speaker 1: They took a kid, Christian Campbell, his first year in

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Speaker 1: the big leagues, and they threw him at first base.

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Speaker 1: A he's a middle infielder. He played first base in

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Speaker 1: the big leagues without any kind of prep. Right, Josel

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Speaker 1: two Va, Bryce Harper, Kyle Schwarber, on and on.

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Speaker 3: The list goes of guys who has changed positions.

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Speaker 1: And we're not talking about taking an infielder and putting

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Speaker 1: in the outfield or vice versa.

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Speaker 3: This corner infielder.

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Speaker 2: No, you're right, I'm missing it. It should have happened.

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Speaker 4: It makes no sense to end up in partying of

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Speaker 4: the ways, especially because this guy can't hit. I mean

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Speaker 4: he's he's been one of my favorite hitters, not only

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Speaker 4: on that team but in the American League for the

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Speaker 4: last several years. They exiled them to San Francisco, where

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Speaker 4: hitting is a little bit more difficult generally speaking, just

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Speaker 4: like when Mo Vaughn came out to Anaheim, that left

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Speaker 4: field wall wasn't there anymore. You get these really good

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Speaker 4: Fenway hitters, and I'm not suggesting I don't even know

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Speaker 4: what his numbers look like away from home but you

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Speaker 4: take that left field wall away from these guys, it's

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Speaker 4: a completely completely different mindset when you come up to

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Speaker 4: the plate. It just everything looks differently in that right

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Speaker 4: field in San Francisco is short in numbers, long in reality.

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Speaker 2: So you're right.

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Speaker 4: I'm not arguing with anything you're saying, one hundred percent right.

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Speaker 4: It just really was handled poorly from Jump Street, like

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Speaker 4: you said, and we'll see it all plays out, but

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Speaker 4: it's unfortunate to have him with these other dudes and

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Speaker 4: these young players. Really benefits the Red Sox long term.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that. Long term.

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Speaker 1: Short term no, I mean, let's face it, you just traded,

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Speaker 1: like you said, a great hitter, maybe one of the

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Speaker 1: top ten hitters in the game, and he traded him

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Speaker 1: under duress. Let's face it, this trade was not made

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Speaker 1: for quote unquote baseball reasons, because there was an evaluation

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Speaker 1: of his talent. You know, the team had started to

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Speaker 1: play better obviously, you know they were in a five

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Speaker 1: game now six game winning streak. That did not precipitate

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Speaker 1: this trade. It was more the fact that and I

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Speaker 1: agree with this from the Red Sox perspective, Joe, this

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Speaker 1: was not going to get better the emotion of having

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Speaker 1: your job taken away, essentially at least your third base

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Speaker 1: position in Devor's case, I understand that. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: a big blow to your pride. He worked on becoming

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Speaker 1: let's say, a decent third basement. Certainly wasn't great, but

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Speaker 1: at a young age that was taken away, and there's

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Speaker 1: going to be an emotional reaction.

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Speaker 3: I get it.

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Speaker 1: But here we were, what three four months later, and

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Speaker 1: the situation was still hardening and festering and was not

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Speaker 1: going to get better. So I understand why they had

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Speaker 1: to move on here. I think they're better long term, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I can't say they're better short term without Devers bat

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Speaker 1: in the lineup.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you this.

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Speaker 4: I mean, this is maybe an offshoot of all of this,

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Speaker 4: because I've seen this a lot in the In sports

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Speaker 4: in general today, the front office always consulting with players,

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Speaker 4: you know, to talk about when they're going to make

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Speaker 4: an acquisition, just some things in general among the team,

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Speaker 4: like the stars of the team are nowadays consulted by

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Speaker 4: the front office regarding potential moves or non moves to

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Speaker 4: be made. It's always been my experience, and I really

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Speaker 4: it's not to be taken right or wrong. But players

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Speaker 4: are not good evaluators. They're not they have their evaluation

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Speaker 4: tools are really not high standard. They've never really gone

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Speaker 4: through the process of scouting that'll understand what a player

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Speaker 4: looks like before it becomes a player or not. And

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Speaker 4: I keep seeing and reading and whether it's the NBA,

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Speaker 4: the MLB, the NFL, all these stuff. You hear about

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Speaker 4: front offices consulting with players before they make a move. Now,

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Speaker 4: in this situation, the consultation should have been with devors

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Speaker 4: straight up regarding with what we're going to do and why, etc.

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Speaker 4: Just to try to ameliorate this this transition with Bregmun

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Speaker 4: coming there. But overall, I mean, you hear about players

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Speaker 4: being consulted.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I'm not into that quite frankly, because just like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: I'm a major league manager and people say, you know,

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Speaker 4: who should you bring up from Triple A or whatever

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Speaker 4: when something happens, I said, don't ask me. I'm not

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Speaker 4: watching these guys every day. You have to ask people

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Speaker 4: boots on the ground, people that are actually seeing this

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff. So, in a weird way, I think

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Speaker 4: this is kind of like an offshoot of all of that.

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Speaker 4: The consultation with players on teams regarding potential moves and

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Speaker 4: talking about them situations in advance. Then you can talk

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Speaker 4: to me about airplanes or food on airplanes or things

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Speaker 4: like that. But it comes to personnel decisions, I don't

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Speaker 4: quite get it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let me get into some of the explanations, if

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Speaker 1: you will. The Red Sox president Sam Kennedy general manager

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Speaker 1: Craig Breslo did address the issue on a zoom call

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Speaker 1: with reporters before the Red Sox first game without Raffael Devers.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna love it, Joe, because it's full of execut

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Speaker 1: you speak right. For instance, Sam Kennedy, the president, said,

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Speaker 1: we worked at it. We had a different vision for

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Speaker 1: him going forward than he had and we couldn't get there.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't find alignment, and we reached that inflection point

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Speaker 1: and made the decision to make a big move. So

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Speaker 1: your key there, they were not in alignment. Here's the

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Speaker 1: key quote from Craig Breslow, the general manager, who also

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Speaker 1: to me, too much executive speak here, you know, just

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Speaker 1: speak plainly, speak baseball, please. He said, the whole was

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Speaker 1: not greater than the some of the parts being great

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Speaker 1: teammates and sacrificing and stepping up for each other and

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Speaker 1: embodying this shared vision. We believe those are principles we

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Speaker 1: needed to be faithful too. And then he was asked, well,

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Speaker 1: what's the identity, what's the culture that you want? And

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Speaker 1: he said, each individual is contributing to finding a way

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Speaker 1: to help a team win, whether that is in the

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Speaker 1: batter's box, on the pitcher's mound, on the basis on defense,

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Speaker 1: in the clubhouse, on the bench.

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Speaker 3: Here's the key.

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Speaker 1: It's the willingness to step up and sacrifice in time

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Speaker 1: of need and eventually do whatever's necessary to help the

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Speaker 1: team win. There's your money quote right there. Step up

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Speaker 1: and sacrifice and time of need and do what needs

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Speaker 1: to be done to help the team win. Isn't that

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Speaker 1: professional sports?

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Speaker 3: Team sports?

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Speaker 4: That's I mean, that's what we've devolved to. I mean

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Speaker 4: that that is a devolvement. It's not We're not progressing

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Speaker 4: with that. That's not progressive as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 4: I mean, again, I go back to Julie Franzosa's social

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Speaker 4: studies teacher at Hazelton High School. Sometimes, often these days

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Speaker 4: things are better when they were worse. You know, you

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Speaker 4: get you get all this supposed innovation and quote unquote

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Speaker 4: better ways of doing things, more efficient ways of doing things.

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Speaker 4: Numbers don't lie here, all this stuff constantly, But at

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Speaker 4: the end of the day, it's about people and and

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Speaker 4: and in this situation, experienced would would would have mattered

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Speaker 4: a lot. From an experienced mindset, you would not have

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Speaker 4: heard all that gibberish. Quite frankly, it's insulting, you know,

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Speaker 4: when you when you and it is exactly you're talking.

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Speaker 4: You know, we've talked about this before. It's in the

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Speaker 4: Book of Joe. I'm just not into this stuff. I

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Speaker 4: think it is. It's insulting. The average fan or the

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Speaker 4: real fan probably scoffs that this maybe some some of

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Speaker 4: those in Boston might actually embrace this kind of a conversation.

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Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, man just again,

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Speaker 4: speak plainly, man, it's it's yeah, it's insulting in a sense.

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Speaker 4: I don't like that kind of stuff. And again it

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Speaker 4: goes back to the beginning with more experience between the

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Speaker 4: two of those guys, and oak Sam's been there for

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Speaker 4: a bit. I know, I know Bresla. I was with

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Speaker 4: Grez a little bit. He's brilliant, he's a wonderful man.

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Speaker 2: I like him a lot, but get past this kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff.

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Speaker 4: And it's not what we need to hear. It's not

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Speaker 4: what your players need to hear. And it's definitely I

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Speaker 4: don't think what the fan base needs to hear because

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Speaker 4: it is insulting.

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Speaker 1: I understand what they did here, Joe, I really do.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the bottom line is your best player. I

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Speaker 1: certainly want the longest term contract here. Didn't want to

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Speaker 1: do things to help the team win at a time

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Speaker 1: of need. There's no question that. And again, I don't

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Speaker 1: think the ask was out of the ordinary. To go

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Speaker 1: out there and take ground balls, see if you can

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Speaker 1: make yourself a two way player and play some defense.

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Speaker 1: That's not unreasonable. As you said, you got there because

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Speaker 1: established that. I was really surprised and disappointed that Alex

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Speaker 1: Corey didn't reach this player early on to get him

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Speaker 1: to buy in, to get out there and just start

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Speaker 1: taking ground balls. I hated this parlor game they played

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Speaker 1: when they brought in Bregman signed in spring training, and

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Speaker 1: they're not even saying that he's a third baseman. They're

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Speaker 1: walking on eggs shells like, well, we'll see what happens.

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Speaker 1: We'll let this thing play out, We'll do it's best

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Speaker 1: for the team.

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Speaker 3: No, he's your third baseman.

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Speaker 1: We all knew that Alex Bregman was not signed to

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Speaker 1: be a DH and watch Devers play third base. You know,

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Speaker 1: as you said, just go Jack, Ryan, face the issue

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Speaker 1: head on.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: The question for me is how did the Giants handle this?

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Speaker 1: You know, is Robbiel Dever is going to take ground

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Speaker 1: balls for the Giants and start playing third base while

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Speaker 1: Matt Chapman is on the aisle. Is he going to say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll take ground balls at first base and see if

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Speaker 1: I can help there. Or is he going to say, well,

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Speaker 1: the Red Sox told me I'm a DH. It's all

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Speaker 1: gonna do. I don't see how he holds that position.

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Speaker 1: Joe switching organizations here.

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, he just did.

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Speaker 4: Hit a home run to help them win the day

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Speaker 4: that he left, right, So I mean, yes, yeah, his

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Speaker 4: numbers actually were turning out pretty well, right, wasn't he

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Speaker 4: driving in runcie?

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Speaker 2: I mean, so, I mean, you know, in spite of

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Speaker 2: all that, I mean, you know, the.

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Speaker 4: Great Bob Clear, my mentor in the minor leagues, when

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Speaker 4: whenever I wanted to pull a player because he didn't

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Speaker 4: run the first phase or something. He told me, don't look,

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Speaker 4: don't look find him, don't look. And eventually I would bet,

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Speaker 4: I mean, regardless of what I just said. And I

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Speaker 4: didn't like the way this was handled, yes, but I

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Speaker 4: think over time this probably would have settled itself. Probably,

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Speaker 4: But going to San Francisco, the Giants, they're going to

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Speaker 4: immediately ameliorate all of his concerns. Yes, take your ground balls. Yes,

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Speaker 4: we're going to place. They're probably gonna do that thing.

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Speaker 4: We're going to play. Yes, some at third, some at first.

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Speaker 4: Don't worry about it if if you're really uncomfortable there.

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Speaker 4: We understand that they'll probably have a defensive replacement maybe

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Speaker 4: later in the game at first base.

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Speaker 2: In the beginning.

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Speaker 4: All this stuff needs to be on the table right

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Speaker 4: from Jump Street. But I believe that they will. He's

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Speaker 4: gonna take round balls. You're gonna see him on defense.

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Speaker 4: They believe they can fix this. They're responsible for this

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Speaker 4: huge contract right now. Well they need to do that

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Speaker 4: because quite frankly, they can't allure free agents normally to

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Speaker 4: get there. So all this stuff is in play. But yes,

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Speaker 4: just hit a home run and helped them win the day.

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Speaker 4: He leaves, and then yes, he's gonna be this model

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Speaker 4: citizen out there, because as he goes there, the Giants

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Speaker 4: think they got this right.

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Speaker 2: They're gonna they're gonna they're gonna.

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Speaker 4: Learn from all the mistakes that Boston had made. They're

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Speaker 4: gonna make sure to not duplicate them. And then Buster

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Speaker 4: there along with Bomel. I think the approach is going

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Speaker 4: to be a little bit different in that sense, in

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Speaker 4: the fact that they've learned, they understand exactly what went wrong,

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Speaker 4: they're gonna make it right.

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Speaker 1: I believe, yeah, Buster is an interesting player in this

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Speaker 1: case here. First of all, I'm not sure that far

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Speaker 1: Hans a Edi, his predecessor, would have made a trade

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Speaker 1: like this, right, No, Yeah, And Buster obviously has established

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Speaker 1: a really good culture there drawing out his days in

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Speaker 1: those championship Giants teams. And I believe in this case,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he's like overreaching the manager here, Joe.

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Speaker 1: But I do think in this case, the president of

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Speaker 1: Baseball Operations is a former All Star and World Champion

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Speaker 1: of Buster Posey, and I think his voice really resonates

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Speaker 1: or should resonate, with Rafael Devers. It seemed to me,

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, Devers had a problem with Craig Breslo

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Speaker 1: from Jump Street, right, and he publicly dissed his own

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Speaker 1: general manager, who is a former player, you know, certainly

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Speaker 1: not as decorated as Buster Posey, but a good former

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Speaker 1: player in the big leagues. But in this case, I

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Speaker 1: think with Buster there, he's going to be able I

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Speaker 1: think at least to establish a commonality with Raffael Devers

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Speaker 1: to get him to buy into something.

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Speaker 3: What that something is, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: You're probably right, you know, make yourself available to play

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Speaker 1: both corners, primarily be a DH but give the manager

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Speaker 1: options here.

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Speaker 3: But I think a lot of this is Buster Posey

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Speaker 3: driving it.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, he makes this deal knowing or thinking believing that

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Speaker 1: he's got a way to make this work in San

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Speaker 1: Francisco the way it did not work in Boston.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Again, it's just I mean, I mean, the most frank

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Speaker 4: conversations you could possibly have. Now he's I don't even

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Speaker 4: know how much they know one another. I know Adamas

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Speaker 4: has already started talking about it. At shortstop. I'm thinking

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Speaker 4: Adamas and him, we're gonna tell yeah, I got him

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Speaker 4: at third base, I got him, I got him skipped.

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Speaker 4: We we're gonna be fine at you. You're gonna hear

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Speaker 4: that from the player himself. I think that, uh, he's

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Speaker 4: going to help ameliorate the situation. Also, however, UH, utilize

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Speaker 4: your experience, be straight forward, don't hold back. We have

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Speaker 4: an honest conversation from the moment he walks in the door,

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Speaker 4: and do not sugarcoat it. Don't don't don't fluff it

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Speaker 4: up a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Just say it.

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Speaker 4: Just say it, and that will be their best way

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Speaker 4: to get this point across. I don't even know if

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Speaker 4: there's any Latino Hispanic coaches on that staff there that

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Speaker 4: maybe Dever's no. I don't know all that, but Baumill

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Speaker 4: could deal with it. I'm sure Buster can deal with it.

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Speaker 4: It's a fresh art. Don't make the same mistakes Boston make,

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Speaker 4: and they're gonna get themselves a pretty good player.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, there was really good news in baseball on Monday

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Speaker 1: Night show. Hey Otani is back on the mound the

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Speaker 1: first time in a Dodgers' uniform. It was an event,

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Speaker 1: and you'll not believe when you hear some of the

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Speaker 1: things show Hey did in just one inning of work.

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Speaker 3: We will dive into that right after this.

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Speaker 5: On the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 1: Hey Joe, did you stay up late and watch one

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Speaker 1: inning of Show hey Otani on the mound?

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Speaker 2: I did not. Last night was a quick exit, buddy.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was pretty fascinating.

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Speaker 1: He'd labored a little bit, so what might have been

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Speaker 1: two innings turned out to be one. But Show hey

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Speaker 1: Otani his first time on the mound in more than

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Speaker 1: six hundred and sixty days. He had an average fast

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Speaker 1: ball velocity of ninety nine point one miles per hour.

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Speaker 1: This was his eighty fourth game pitching in the major leagues.

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Speaker 1: That is his highest recorded velocity of his career. Now

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Speaker 1: you can say, well, of course it's a little higher.

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Speaker 1: Only pitch one inning. Okay, if you just take the

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Speaker 1: first inning of every game he's pitched in the big leagues,

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Speaker 1: it was the highest velocity that he's ever thrown the

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Speaker 1: big leagues. He hit one hundred point two with his fastball.

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Speaker 1: Uh and by the way, in the game, he also

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Speaker 1: hit a baseball one oh five point two.

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Speaker 3: I think about that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I hope people never get accustomed to the

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Speaker 1: fact of what we're seeing here. He threw a pitch

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Speaker 1: at one hundred point two he hit a ball at

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Speaker 1: one oh five point two. Now, the most amazing thing

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Speaker 1: for MAJO is just a little tableau of watching show

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Speaker 1: a pitch the top of the first inning, goes to

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Speaker 1: the dugout, doesn't even have time, with less time between

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Speaker 1: innings now than it used to be because of the

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Speaker 1: pitch timer to go into the dugout to grab a

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Speaker 1: drink of water or put anything down.

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Speaker 3: Actually, he never went the dugout.

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Speaker 1: He had the one of the bat boys come out

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Speaker 1: and bring him his leg guard, his arm guard, his

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Speaker 1: batting helmet, and his bat and he basically got dressed

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Speaker 1: to hit right there on the warning track and stepped

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Speaker 1: into the batter's box to bat. This guy pitched the

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Speaker 1: top of the first let off the bottom of the

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Speaker 1: first inning. Just an amazing scene that I hope nobody

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Speaker 1: took for granted, But boy, there was a good look

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Speaker 1: to see showing on the mound. A couple of things

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Speaker 1: that stand out also to me, Joe, I want to

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Speaker 1: hear your comments on this, because obviously you coached this guy,

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Speaker 1: you managed him.

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Speaker 3: You know what he does on the mound. He pitched

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Speaker 3: out of the wind up.

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Speaker 1: You know it's the first time he's done that at

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Speaker 1: least the state side that we've seen, and the release

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Speaker 1: point that he had was the lowest.

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Speaker 3: Of his career.

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Speaker 1: You know, it looked like he was getting down more,

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Speaker 1: getting more into his legs again pitching out of the

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Speaker 1: wind up. Maybe that's got something to do with it. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't drastically lower, but it was lower than anything we've

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Speaker 1: seen before. So we've got to show hey now on

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Speaker 1: the mound, throwing harder than ever, lower release point out

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Speaker 1: of a wind up.

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Speaker 4: Well as well that first anything he's rehearsed, that he's

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Speaker 4: got that down. Interesting though, the fact that he they

435
00:20:16,758 --> 00:20:18,918
Speaker 4: don't want this to happen again. I'm sure they went

436
00:20:18,958 --> 00:20:22,798
Speaker 4: through this, I don't know, exercise and put videos out

437
00:20:22,838 --> 00:20:25,198
Speaker 4: there and whatever. The guys get hurt, guys that don't

438
00:20:25,198 --> 00:20:28,638
Speaker 4: get hurt, Tommy John, but whatever. If they lowered his armstroke,

439
00:20:28,718 --> 00:20:32,438
Speaker 4: they probably somehow determined that that may have been part

440
00:20:32,438 --> 00:20:35,278
Speaker 4: of the reason why this has happened, and by lowering it,

441
00:20:35,798 --> 00:20:39,278
Speaker 4: maybe that's also to encourage him to pitch at the

442
00:20:39,318 --> 00:20:40,838
Speaker 4: top of the strikes on a little bit more often.

443
00:20:41,158 --> 00:20:44,078
Speaker 4: We'll see, But it just seems like therews a conspiracy

444
00:20:44,118 --> 00:20:47,358
Speaker 4: there to avoid this again. And we're going to do

445
00:20:47,398 --> 00:20:50,158
Speaker 4: this through a mechanical adjustment nests. The best time to

446
00:20:50,198 --> 00:20:52,878
Speaker 4: make these kinds of adjustments is after a serious injury, honestly,

447
00:20:53,638 --> 00:20:55,558
Speaker 4: because after you've been sitting for a while and you

448
00:20:55,638 --> 00:20:58,078
Speaker 4: come back, you're going to restructure the way you're throwing

449
00:20:58,518 --> 00:20:59,998
Speaker 4: based on a pretty severe injury.

450
00:20:59,998 --> 00:21:01,798
Speaker 2: Again, that would be the time to do it.

451
00:21:02,238 --> 00:21:05,838
Speaker 4: So they probably took a lot of stuff in consideration, obviously,

452
00:21:06,358 --> 00:21:09,518
Speaker 4: And that's interesting now the one as it turned out

453
00:21:09,558 --> 00:21:12,038
Speaker 4: to be winning and one hundred miles an hour.

454
00:21:11,918 --> 00:21:13,998
Speaker 2: You're making me think, are they even thinking about bullpen?

455
00:21:14,118 --> 00:21:16,398
Speaker 1: I don't know, No, no way, can't do that.

456
00:21:16,798 --> 00:21:19,318
Speaker 3: It's too unscripted. You got to stick with the script.

457
00:21:18,998 --> 00:21:22,758
Speaker 4: I agree, But they're seeing one hundred miles an hour

458
00:21:22,798 --> 00:21:24,918
Speaker 4: at at what any gig. It's going to be kind

459
00:21:24,918 --> 00:21:27,918
Speaker 4: of interesting. My point was, we talked about this yesterday.

460
00:21:27,958 --> 00:21:30,478
Speaker 4: I think they're going to this is his rehab assignment.

461
00:21:30,478 --> 00:21:33,118
Speaker 4: They're going to get him stretched out to five by

462
00:21:33,198 --> 00:21:35,638
Speaker 4: the All Star break, and then post All Star break again,

463
00:21:35,638 --> 00:21:37,958
Speaker 4: they'll work it backwards and try to figure out how

464
00:21:37,958 --> 00:21:41,158
Speaker 4: manyenings they want to get him into prior to and

465
00:21:41,158 --> 00:21:43,558
Speaker 4: then including the playoffs. But I got to watch this

466
00:21:43,678 --> 00:21:47,718
Speaker 4: because the lower armstroke interesting. I could see it in

467
00:21:47,758 --> 00:21:50,318
Speaker 4: my mind's eye kind of like that. I don't know

468
00:21:50,318 --> 00:21:52,278
Speaker 4: what it did to his breaking stuff, because this guy

469
00:21:52,398 --> 00:21:55,678
Speaker 4: is like, wow, crazy good breaking stuff to shoot though

470
00:21:55,718 --> 00:21:58,638
Speaker 4: the split, and he's one of those things, like Hugh Darbt,

471
00:21:58,638 --> 00:22:01,278
Speaker 4: they create on the run. They just unbelievable feel for

472
00:22:01,318 --> 00:22:04,158
Speaker 4: the game of pitching. So, yeah, you're right. I hope

473
00:22:04,158 --> 00:22:06,478
Speaker 4: we never get used to this. Everybody talks about the

474
00:22:06,518 --> 00:22:09,198
Speaker 4: next one. I don't know when that's gonna happen. I'm curious.

475
00:22:09,238 --> 00:22:12,838
Speaker 4: I'm saying at least a generation, possibly even longer. This

476
00:22:13,038 --> 00:22:15,958
Speaker 4: is this is weird stuff. This doesn't happen easily, and

477
00:22:15,998 --> 00:22:19,518
Speaker 4: he does. He does it so seamlessly and elegantly and

478
00:22:19,558 --> 00:22:20,918
Speaker 4: like without even an effort.

479
00:22:21,238 --> 00:22:22,358
Speaker 2: He's just a different cat.

480
00:22:22,678 --> 00:22:24,238
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know you saw this.

481
00:22:24,358 --> 00:22:27,478
Speaker 1: When Shoe first got here with the Angels, his arm

482
00:22:27,518 --> 00:22:30,158
Speaker 1: slot was much higher, you know. Even going from then

483
00:22:30,238 --> 00:22:32,638
Speaker 1: to last time we saw him on the mountain in

484
00:22:32,638 --> 00:22:36,078
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, his arm angle went from forty five

485
00:22:36,118 --> 00:22:39,078
Speaker 1: degrees to thirty six degrees, so it's been evolving a

486
00:22:39,118 --> 00:22:41,758
Speaker 1: little bit lower. I took it to me last night

487
00:22:41,798 --> 00:22:44,598
Speaker 1: watching him pitch that he was more into his legs.

488
00:22:44,638 --> 00:22:47,558
Speaker 1: I don't think his arm angle actually changed all that much.

489
00:22:48,078 --> 00:22:50,238
Speaker 1: But to me, the other thing that was really interesting

490
00:22:50,318 --> 00:22:54,558
Speaker 1: Joe is the way he threw his two seamer. I

491
00:22:54,558 --> 00:22:56,878
Speaker 1: think Showey's gotten on board with a lot of pitchers

492
00:22:56,918 --> 00:22:58,438
Speaker 1: out there in the game today who are throwing a

493
00:22:58,478 --> 00:23:02,358
Speaker 1: lot more to seamers, just shaping the ball. For Instancean

494
00:23:02,438 --> 00:23:04,558
Speaker 1: when he last pitched in twenty three, he threw six

495
00:23:04,638 --> 00:23:09,438
Speaker 1: percent sinkers. That's it last night, and again it's a

496
00:23:09,438 --> 00:23:11,198
Speaker 1: small sample, sid it's all we have to go on.

497
00:23:11,238 --> 00:23:14,638
Speaker 1: Though he threw twenty nine percent two seamers, eight of

498
00:23:14,638 --> 00:23:17,678
Speaker 1: his twenty eight pitches were sinkers. He came out throwing

499
00:23:17,718 --> 00:23:20,558
Speaker 1: sinkers to Fernando Tatis at the bottom of the zone.

500
00:23:20,638 --> 00:23:23,278
Speaker 1: So to me, that shows that maybe we're going to

501
00:23:23,358 --> 00:23:27,478
Speaker 1: see a different show, almost Zach Wheeler esque, where we

502
00:23:27,598 --> 00:23:30,678
Speaker 1: always know he's got that high velocity for riding for steamer,

503
00:23:30,758 --> 00:23:32,758
Speaker 1: and now he's got that two seamer that he can

504
00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:34,998
Speaker 1: you know, run either at the bottom of the zone

505
00:23:35,118 --> 00:23:36,998
Speaker 1: or especially in on right handed hitters.

506
00:23:37,278 --> 00:23:39,438
Speaker 4: I mean, when you say that, my thought would be

507
00:23:40,198 --> 00:23:42,358
Speaker 4: the ability or the thought of pitching more to contact

508
00:23:42,398 --> 00:23:46,558
Speaker 4: and getting more early count outs, possibly to again to

509
00:23:46,638 --> 00:23:49,838
Speaker 4: save maybe uh pitches thrown during the course of a game,

510
00:23:50,038 --> 00:23:52,798
Speaker 4: because nobody talks about early count outs anymore. Nobody talks

511
00:23:52,798 --> 00:23:55,638
Speaker 4: about pitching the contact anymore, and let your defense play.

512
00:23:55,678 --> 00:23:57,758
Speaker 4: That was that was a rallying cry back in the day.

513
00:23:57,798 --> 00:24:00,078
Speaker 4: I loved one of my pitchers did that. God, I

514
00:24:00,198 --> 00:24:02,878
Speaker 4: just loved when the first pitch out. That was such

515
00:24:02,918 --> 00:24:05,438
Speaker 4: a boon to you know, getting your guys more deeply

516
00:24:05,438 --> 00:24:09,358
Speaker 4: into games, all this stuff that's no longer emphasized. So again, again,

517
00:24:09,398 --> 00:24:11,918
Speaker 4: I don't know what the rhetoric is right now. I've

518
00:24:11,918 --> 00:24:15,398
Speaker 4: not been around in Dougoutson in clubhouses, so I don't

519
00:24:15,438 --> 00:24:19,438
Speaker 4: know for sure. But the two seam fastball getting underneath

520
00:24:19,478 --> 00:24:22,598
Speaker 4: the riety, if it's really good's that's always been a

521
00:24:22,638 --> 00:24:25,158
Speaker 4: positive that in a way to the lefty, though, I'm

522
00:24:25,198 --> 00:24:28,078
Speaker 4: curious how that reacts because sometimes you know, that's just

523
00:24:28,398 --> 00:24:31,078
Speaker 4: a less normally it's a lesser fastball velocity wise, you're

524
00:24:31,118 --> 00:24:33,798
Speaker 4: throwing into the sweet throwing to the thicker.

525
00:24:33,478 --> 00:24:34,038
Speaker 2: Part of the bat.

526
00:24:34,118 --> 00:24:36,558
Speaker 4: To the lefties, I'd have to see all this stuff.

527
00:24:36,558 --> 00:24:39,558
Speaker 4: But overall, overwatching point, I think I'm curious if this

528
00:24:39,638 --> 00:24:41,718
Speaker 4: is more of a thought of pitching the contact and

529
00:24:41,798 --> 00:24:45,278
Speaker 4: getting more early count outs and saving some of that

530
00:24:45,358 --> 00:24:46,598
Speaker 4: velocity for later in the game.

531
00:24:46,798 --> 00:24:49,238
Speaker 1: Yeah, and speaking of velocity, it wasn't just the fourth seamer.

532
00:24:49,318 --> 00:24:51,678
Speaker 1: Everything that he threw is up a good two miles

533
00:24:51,718 --> 00:24:55,238
Speaker 1: an hour. Now, obviously there's got to be some adrenaline,

534
00:24:55,318 --> 00:24:57,798
Speaker 1: right absolutely. You know, you know how much this guy

535
00:24:58,158 --> 00:24:59,878
Speaker 1: loves the pitching side of the game. I mean, he

536
00:24:59,918 --> 00:25:02,478
Speaker 1: loves everything about the game. But he feels like he's

537
00:25:02,518 --> 00:25:06,038
Speaker 1: whole now. As as show Hay said, you know, last

538
00:25:06,118 --> 00:25:08,518
Speaker 1: year it was an abnormal year for him. This is

539
00:25:08,518 --> 00:25:10,958
Speaker 1: getting back to normal being a two way player. The

540
00:25:10,998 --> 00:25:13,438
Speaker 1: world seems right to show Hey right now because now

541
00:25:13,438 --> 00:25:16,278
Speaker 1: he's back being a two way player, which is that's

542
00:25:16,278 --> 00:25:18,398
Speaker 1: who he is, that's his DNA, that's why he came

543
00:25:18,438 --> 00:25:22,238
Speaker 1: here to continue to pursue that. So definitely adrenaline. But

544
00:25:22,518 --> 00:25:24,798
Speaker 1: you know how hard this guy works. Joe wouldn't surprise

545
00:25:24,918 --> 00:25:29,038
Speaker 1: me that he's literally stronger coming back from the second surgery,

546
00:25:29,278 --> 00:25:31,918
Speaker 1: and then you're going to see him maintain more velocity. Again,

547
00:25:31,958 --> 00:25:33,638
Speaker 1: it's only one inning, so I'm not going to make

548
00:25:33,878 --> 00:25:37,078
Speaker 1: an overarching determination here that you know, show Hay's got

549
00:25:37,078 --> 00:25:39,678
Speaker 1: more gas in the tank this year, but it's possible

550
00:25:39,718 --> 00:25:41,638
Speaker 1: that he does. It would not surprise me is he

551
00:25:41,678 --> 00:25:44,478
Speaker 1: does get stretched out here. I'm saying he's going to

552
00:25:44,518 --> 00:25:47,118
Speaker 1: throw one hundred every pitch, but that everything across the

553
00:25:47,118 --> 00:25:48,598
Speaker 1: board might be playing up this year.

554
00:25:49,038 --> 00:25:52,238
Speaker 4: Something to prove quiet the doubters. I mean, he gets

555
00:25:52,238 --> 00:25:56,518
Speaker 4: fueled by those things. His whole careers existence has been

556
00:25:56,798 --> 00:26:01,278
Speaker 4: about proving himself. And again there's always going to be doubters.

557
00:26:01,638 --> 00:26:05,238
Speaker 4: There was right now, everything he's doing seems so mainstream

558
00:26:05,478 --> 00:26:09,798
Speaker 4: and easy and of course, but believe me, before we

559
00:26:10,438 --> 00:26:13,198
Speaker 4: made a transition, when I was there with the Angels

560
00:26:13,238 --> 00:26:15,158
Speaker 4: and was at twenty twenty one, when he started to

561
00:26:15,198 --> 00:26:19,158
Speaker 4: become the pitcher and player simultaneously, there was a lot

562
00:26:19,198 --> 00:26:22,278
Speaker 4: of naysayers and doubters at that point. And really, if

563
00:26:22,278 --> 00:26:24,518
Speaker 4: you play back the tape, a lot of folks did, now,

564
00:26:24,558 --> 00:26:26,398
Speaker 4: you shouldn't do this. She's got to pick one or

565
00:26:26,398 --> 00:26:30,158
Speaker 4: the other. So he's fueled by that kind of conversations.

566
00:26:30,918 --> 00:26:35,278
Speaker 4: He is a unique individual athletically speaking from a baseball perspective.

567
00:26:35,278 --> 00:26:36,318
Speaker 2: Although I'd love to see him.

568
00:26:36,438 --> 00:26:38,278
Speaker 4: I'm sure he could play other sports well too, But

569
00:26:38,798 --> 00:26:40,478
Speaker 4: he's got such a gift for.

570
00:26:40,518 --> 00:26:41,558
Speaker 2: Doing things naturally.

571
00:26:41,598 --> 00:26:45,078
Speaker 4: In our game, it is, it's the it's the best

572
00:26:45,118 --> 00:26:48,838
Speaker 4: player in Little League by far, and everybody else is

573
00:26:49,038 --> 00:26:54,078
Speaker 4: just trying to hold hold on or be somewhat is good.

574
00:26:54,238 --> 00:26:58,238
Speaker 4: He just he sees things differently, feels things differently. He

575
00:26:58,358 --> 00:27:01,478
Speaker 4: is different, and so just give him a little a

576
00:27:01,518 --> 00:27:03,358
Speaker 4: little doubt out there, give him something to prove and

577
00:27:03,438 --> 00:27:03,758
Speaker 4: then heads.

578
00:27:04,198 --> 00:27:04,438
Speaker 3: Yeah.

579
00:27:04,518 --> 00:27:07,838
Speaker 1: The other interesting thing, Joe, he threw only one split

580
00:27:08,718 --> 00:27:11,598
Speaker 1: last night. Okay, Yeah, he did not put away hitters

581
00:27:11,638 --> 00:27:13,598
Speaker 1: the way we normally see show hey do that he

582
00:27:13,678 --> 00:27:17,158
Speaker 1: ran a lot of full and two strike counts without

583
00:27:17,158 --> 00:27:20,238
Speaker 1: getting that swing of miss on strike three. I'm not

584
00:27:20,278 --> 00:27:22,238
Speaker 1: sure why. Maybe that's a pitch that you.

585
00:27:22,198 --> 00:27:23,318
Speaker 3: Would know better than me, Joe.

586
00:27:23,318 --> 00:27:25,798
Speaker 1: That comes along a little bit later in terms of

587
00:27:25,838 --> 00:27:27,598
Speaker 1: how the feel for that pitch. But a little bit

588
00:27:27,638 --> 00:27:32,638
Speaker 1: surprised that I only saw one split and the couple

589
00:27:32,638 --> 00:27:35,958
Speaker 1: of sweepers that he threw had a lot less sweep

590
00:27:36,038 --> 00:27:38,118
Speaker 1: to it than what we saw back in twenty three.

591
00:27:38,238 --> 00:27:40,078
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's just gonna be feel the thing about the

592
00:27:40,118 --> 00:27:43,518
Speaker 4: splitter and ICE's way back, because that became really or

593
00:27:43,518 --> 00:27:46,798
Speaker 4: this fork ball became famous with Roger Craig when he

594
00:27:46,798 --> 00:27:48,918
Speaker 4: came on with the Giants, was at the eighties at

595
00:27:48,958 --> 00:27:51,798
Speaker 4: some point, because even in the minor leagues, I had

596
00:27:51,838 --> 00:27:55,958
Speaker 4: some young pitchers, young like rookie ball guys that really

597
00:27:55,998 --> 00:27:58,998
Speaker 4: had a decent split or a forkball.

598
00:27:59,518 --> 00:28:00,558
Speaker 2: And I was always.

599
00:28:00,358 --> 00:28:03,238
Speaker 4: Concerned at that point because I you know, when there's nothing,

600
00:28:03,478 --> 00:28:06,918
Speaker 4: when you're fingers are split and there's nothing behind the ball,

601
00:28:07,118 --> 00:28:09,038
Speaker 4: your fingers are not behind the ball, and a way

602
00:28:09,078 --> 00:28:11,678
Speaker 4: to split your ten as of ligaments whatever. I was

603
00:28:11,718 --> 00:28:14,078
Speaker 4: always concerned about that because these guys so it hard,

604
00:28:14,078 --> 00:28:15,918
Speaker 4: and he throws it hard, and what kind of an

605
00:28:15,918 --> 00:28:19,078
Speaker 4: impact that can have moving up your arm to your elbow,

606
00:28:19,118 --> 00:28:22,838
Speaker 4: et cetera. I always had a concern about that. So

607
00:28:23,038 --> 00:28:24,918
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's part of the what we

608
00:28:24,998 --> 00:28:28,838
Speaker 4: saw is going to come back more slowly because we're

609
00:28:28,838 --> 00:28:31,278
Speaker 4: really we prefer that you just stay with these other

610
00:28:31,318 --> 00:28:33,238
Speaker 4: pitches now and then we're going to work that in

611
00:28:33,358 --> 00:28:35,678
Speaker 4: as we go forward. Or are they going to look

612
00:28:35,718 --> 00:28:37,798
Speaker 4: and see if he could eliminate that completely and still

613
00:28:37,798 --> 00:28:40,878
Speaker 4: be as effective without.

614
00:28:40,478 --> 00:28:43,358
Speaker 2: That particular pitch. Again, I'm I'm just creating narrative, right.

615
00:28:43,518 --> 00:28:45,918
Speaker 4: I don't know, but I do know as a young

616
00:28:45,958 --> 00:28:49,238
Speaker 4: manager I did not like when my young pitchers threw

617
00:28:49,278 --> 00:28:51,038
Speaker 4: that pitch. The other part of it was, and this

618
00:28:51,118 --> 00:28:52,798
Speaker 4: is different in the major league level, but they would

619
00:28:52,958 --> 00:28:55,438
Speaker 4: they could get any hitters out. You know that pitches

620
00:28:55,558 --> 00:28:58,078
Speaker 4: chase so often, especially on a younger level, that I

621
00:28:58,198 --> 00:29:00,518
Speaker 4: was concerned that when they did do that, they weren't

622
00:29:00,558 --> 00:29:03,678
Speaker 4: developing the other pitches, primarily their fastball and fastball commands.

623
00:29:03,718 --> 00:29:05,958
Speaker 4: So we could go on and on about this subject,

624
00:29:06,038 --> 00:29:08,198
Speaker 4: but let's just watch how this plays out.

625
00:29:08,078 --> 00:29:10,838
Speaker 2: And see if they're trying to have him.

626
00:29:10,758 --> 00:29:13,638
Speaker 4: Use it a lot less feeling that he can be

627
00:29:14,158 --> 00:29:16,998
Speaker 4: part of the concern regard you know, with the Tommy

628
00:29:17,038 --> 00:29:19,638
Speaker 4: Johns that he's had, or is that.

629
00:29:19,598 --> 00:29:20,358
Speaker 2: There's no concern.

630
00:29:20,358 --> 00:29:22,678
Speaker 4: We're just going to build into this and build up

631
00:29:22,718 --> 00:29:24,398
Speaker 4: some more in strengths before we get to that point.

632
00:29:24,638 --> 00:29:24,838
Speaker 2: Yeah.

633
00:29:24,958 --> 00:29:28,398
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, he had two more hits, yeah, right, and raises

634
00:29:28,398 --> 00:29:30,318
Speaker 1: his batting average at three hundred. You know, the other

635
00:29:30,398 --> 00:29:33,318
Speaker 1: day Shohey got career home run number two hundred and

636
00:29:33,318 --> 00:29:36,518
Speaker 1: fifty and it was career game for him nine to

637
00:29:36,598 --> 00:29:39,798
Speaker 1: forty four. He is the fastest player in the history

638
00:29:39,798 --> 00:29:42,038
Speaker 1: of this game to reach two hundred and fifty homers

639
00:29:42,118 --> 00:29:46,318
Speaker 1: and one hundred and fifty stolen bases. It's just amazing

640
00:29:46,358 --> 00:29:49,078
Speaker 1: when you think about that. And I went a little

641
00:29:49,118 --> 00:29:51,358
Speaker 1: farther on this, Joe. I tried to find, through nine

642
00:29:51,398 --> 00:29:54,758
Speaker 1: hundred and forty four games, guys who had two hundred

643
00:29:54,798 --> 00:29:58,198
Speaker 1: home runs, one hundred and fifty stolen bases, one hundred

644
00:29:58,198 --> 00:30:00,838
Speaker 1: and fifty doubles and forty triples, like the whole Bengo

645
00:30:00,958 --> 00:30:03,598
Speaker 1: card of being a great offensive player. And I came

646
00:30:03,678 --> 00:30:08,678
Speaker 1: up with three players. That's it, Shoe a Otani, Willie Mays,

647
00:30:08,998 --> 00:30:12,678
Speaker 1: and Mike Trout. I mean, that's we take it for

648
00:30:12,718 --> 00:30:17,038
Speaker 1: granted again, but you know, Willie Mays, Mike Trout, we

649
00:30:17,078 --> 00:30:19,238
Speaker 1: haven't seen them on the mound being one of the

650
00:30:19,278 --> 00:30:22,758
Speaker 1: best pitchers in the league throughout one hundred miles an hour, right,

651
00:30:22,878 --> 00:30:24,838
Speaker 1: I mean, he does belong in that company. If you

652
00:30:24,918 --> 00:30:27,518
Speaker 1: break down show Hayes numbers as a pitcher and a

653
00:30:27,598 --> 00:30:30,118
Speaker 1: hitter at this point in the careers. As a hitter,

654
00:30:30,198 --> 00:30:34,398
Speaker 1: his closest comp is Willie Mays, and as a pitcher

655
00:30:35,078 --> 00:30:36,998
Speaker 1: it's someone like Jim Palmer.

656
00:30:37,598 --> 00:30:41,238
Speaker 3: All in one player two first ballot Hall of Famers.

657
00:30:41,158 --> 00:30:45,118
Speaker 4: And that also be putting Trout's name in that conversation

658
00:30:45,238 --> 00:30:47,558
Speaker 4: that's just that's just so difficult because he's been so

659
00:30:47,678 --> 00:30:51,238
Speaker 4: injured more recently. But wow, that's that's pretty impressive stuff

660
00:30:51,278 --> 00:30:54,078
Speaker 4: right there. And then furthermore, just keep going. The two

661
00:30:54,118 --> 00:30:57,838
Speaker 4: guys played for the Angel simultaneously. It's it's crazy Willie

662
00:30:57,918 --> 00:31:01,118
Speaker 4: Mays just say that name. It's such a god. It's

663
00:31:01,118 --> 00:31:04,398
Speaker 4: such a unique man in our history. I got to

664
00:31:04,438 --> 00:31:08,518
Speaker 4: meet him during the playoffs in twenty sixteen. Cubs are

665
00:31:08,558 --> 00:31:11,958
Speaker 4: playing the Giants were playing in San Francisco, and I

666
00:31:11,998 --> 00:31:14,158
Speaker 4: had a common friend and said he could have me

667
00:31:14,238 --> 00:31:17,558
Speaker 4: sit down with Willy. So before the game, I go

668
00:31:17,598 --> 00:31:20,198
Speaker 4: out to the parking lot and Willy had a handler

669
00:31:20,198 --> 00:31:23,038
Speaker 4: with him, but he also had his poodle on his lap.

670
00:31:23,398 --> 00:31:25,918
Speaker 4: And I sat with Willy for about fifteen or twenty

671
00:31:25,998 --> 00:31:28,838
Speaker 4: minutes out where the little tent is out there for

672
00:31:28,918 --> 00:31:30,718
Speaker 4: families to greed after the game, and I had a

673
00:31:30,718 --> 00:31:34,878
Speaker 4: fifteen or twenty minute conversation with Willie Mays, and.

674
00:31:34,838 --> 00:31:36,278
Speaker 2: God I walked away from that.

675
00:31:36,278 --> 00:31:38,278
Speaker 4: It's almost like the time I sat with John Wooden.

676
00:31:38,638 --> 00:31:41,638
Speaker 4: I've been really this game has really been fortunate for

677
00:31:41,678 --> 00:31:43,518
Speaker 4: me in a lot of regards. But to just be

678
00:31:43,558 --> 00:31:45,878
Speaker 4: able to sit there and visit with that man, and

679
00:31:46,118 --> 00:31:48,758
Speaker 4: we continually talk about all the wonderful things that he's

680
00:31:48,758 --> 00:31:51,838
Speaker 4: done and with one of the best players that has

681
00:31:51,878 --> 00:31:54,718
Speaker 4: ever lived at any age, at any at any point

682
00:31:54,718 --> 00:31:57,998
Speaker 4: in time that I had that opportunities. Really, I got

683
00:31:57,998 --> 00:32:00,278
Speaker 4: a great photograph of It's a pretty incredible memory for me.

684
00:32:00,838 --> 00:32:01,798
Speaker 3: That's so cool.

685
00:32:02,238 --> 00:32:05,438
Speaker 1: I'm Willie, as you found out, great storyteller, that high

686
00:32:05,438 --> 00:32:09,718
Speaker 1: pitched laugh, just a pleasure to be around. Speaking of

687
00:32:10,158 --> 00:32:13,878
Speaker 1: Willie and the New York Giants. By the way, show hey,

688
00:32:13,998 --> 00:32:15,718
Speaker 1: last night, I mentioned he pitched the top of the

689
00:32:15,718 --> 00:32:18,358
Speaker 1: first and let off the bottom of the first. He

690
00:32:18,518 --> 00:32:22,998
Speaker 1: was the first National League player to do that since

691
00:32:23,118 --> 00:32:27,438
Speaker 1: Alvin Dark in nineteen fifty three. And I saw that

692
00:32:27,518 --> 00:32:29,478
Speaker 1: and it was like, wait a second, Alvin Dark, it's

693
00:32:29,478 --> 00:32:33,758
Speaker 1: a middle infielder. Yeah, yeah, Well his manager was Leo

694
00:32:33,838 --> 00:32:37,078
Speaker 1: de Rocher. Leo loved Alvin Dark, actually made him captain

695
00:32:37,118 --> 00:32:39,318
Speaker 1: of the Giants beck in either fifty one and fifty two.

696
00:32:40,238 --> 00:32:43,078
Speaker 1: So fifty three, the Giants had a tough year and

697
00:32:43,118 --> 00:32:43,758
Speaker 1: they're out of it.

698
00:32:43,758 --> 00:32:45,158
Speaker 3: It's the last game of the year.

699
00:32:45,198 --> 00:32:48,918
Speaker 1: They're playing Pittsburgh and Leo de Roscher has his boy,

700
00:32:48,958 --> 00:32:52,278
Speaker 1: Alvin Dark start the game as a pitcher, and obviously

701
00:32:52,358 --> 00:32:54,118
Speaker 1: we still lead off hit or for him. So that's

702
00:32:54,158 --> 00:32:56,318
Speaker 1: the last time it's happened. And it was sort of

703
00:32:56,438 --> 00:33:00,078
Speaker 1: just like a I say, goof, but yeah, kind of

704
00:33:00,078 --> 00:33:01,958
Speaker 1: put a position a player on the mound to start

705
00:33:01,958 --> 00:33:05,158
Speaker 1: the game, reward Alvin Dark for whatever reason Leo had.

706
00:33:05,918 --> 00:33:07,478
Speaker 1: But how about that It hadn't been done in the

707
00:33:07,558 --> 00:33:11,718
Speaker 1: National League since nineteen fifty three, And obviously Alvin Dark

708
00:33:11,758 --> 00:33:13,878
Speaker 1: was not a true two way player. He's a positional

709
00:33:13,918 --> 00:33:16,318
Speaker 1: player who was a manager just decided to put him

710
00:33:16,318 --> 00:33:18,598
Speaker 1: on the mound in the last game of the season. Joe,

711
00:33:18,638 --> 00:33:20,478
Speaker 1: did you ever do anything like that, take a position

712
00:33:20,558 --> 00:33:22,838
Speaker 1: player or somebody who wanted to do something the last

713
00:33:22,878 --> 00:33:24,998
Speaker 1: game of the year. I know Joe Torre used to

714
00:33:24,998 --> 00:33:27,358
Speaker 1: have one of his position players managed the last game

715
00:33:27,358 --> 00:33:29,358
Speaker 1: of the year when it was a meaningless game. Any

716
00:33:29,398 --> 00:33:30,878
Speaker 1: games that you had fun with in the course of

717
00:33:30,878 --> 00:33:34,678
Speaker 1: the season when it was not quote unquote a meaningful game.

718
00:33:34,638 --> 00:33:36,238
Speaker 2: Well, well, well an instructional league.

719
00:33:36,278 --> 00:33:38,238
Speaker 4: I mean they didn't count, but it had a week's

720
00:33:38,278 --> 00:33:41,358
Speaker 4: where the where with the players would run everything. They

721
00:33:41,398 --> 00:33:44,118
Speaker 4: would run the game, they would run the practice, et cetera.

722
00:33:44,598 --> 00:33:46,038
Speaker 4: Just trying to give them a feel what that was

723
00:33:46,078 --> 00:33:49,558
Speaker 4: all that was about. I would have felt like, because

724
00:33:49,598 --> 00:33:52,318
Speaker 4: players have no idea what it's like to organize a

725
00:33:52,398 --> 00:33:55,918
Speaker 4: day run in the morning, you know, be in charge

726
00:33:55,918 --> 00:33:58,198
Speaker 4: of the instruction, and then actually run the game itself

727
00:33:58,198 --> 00:34:01,358
Speaker 4: in the afternoon a hundred degree weathers. So I did

728
00:34:01,398 --> 00:34:03,638
Speaker 4: it with that in a game itself, in a big

729
00:34:03,718 --> 00:34:08,118
Speaker 4: league game. Rizzo used to badger me about letting him pitch.

730
00:34:08,558 --> 00:34:11,118
Speaker 4: Anthony Rizzo. I'd go out to take somebody out, he'd say,

731
00:34:11,158 --> 00:34:13,438
Speaker 4: coach put me in. So the one day I walked

732
00:34:13,438 --> 00:34:15,358
Speaker 4: out there and said, Rizz, you're in. We were getting

733
00:34:15,358 --> 00:34:17,438
Speaker 4: blown out. One time I walked out there and he

734
00:34:17,478 --> 00:34:19,198
Speaker 4: looked at me like no, and I said, yeah, you're in.

735
00:34:19,438 --> 00:34:20,838
Speaker 4: So I gave him the ball an he went out there.

736
00:34:21,558 --> 00:34:23,598
Speaker 4: It was the most scared moment of his life. He'd

737
00:34:23,638 --> 00:34:27,318
Speaker 4: been talking about this. I mean like nearly every time

738
00:34:27,318 --> 00:34:28,878
Speaker 4: I went out there to take out a picture, coach

739
00:34:28,918 --> 00:34:31,158
Speaker 4: put me in as the other pitcher was walking in.

740
00:34:31,478 --> 00:34:33,518
Speaker 4: So finally gave it to riz put in his glove.

741
00:34:33,918 --> 00:34:35,998
Speaker 4: He saw what it felt like. He loved it. Then

742
00:34:36,038 --> 00:34:38,638
Speaker 4: he didn't like it so much, but it was really interesting.

743
00:34:38,638 --> 00:34:40,678
Speaker 4: The instructional league thing. When you put the players in

744
00:34:40,798 --> 00:34:44,358
Speaker 4: charge for the week. That was kind of a cool gig,

745
00:34:44,678 --> 00:34:46,558
Speaker 4: and he gave him a different perspective on how this

746
00:34:46,598 --> 00:34:47,158
Speaker 4: thing is done.

747
00:34:47,238 --> 00:34:48,478
Speaker 3: Oh that's cool. I never heard that.

748
00:34:48,518 --> 00:34:50,358
Speaker 1: Didn't know you did that back in the IL, But

749
00:34:50,478 --> 00:34:53,718
Speaker 1: that's a great idea. And speaking of Leo and those

750
00:34:53,758 --> 00:34:57,878
Speaker 1: fifty three Giants, he liked a certain type of player,

751
00:34:57,958 --> 00:35:01,238
Speaker 1: right and Alvin Dark was that guy. There was also

752
00:35:01,398 --> 00:35:04,718
Speaker 1: Eddie Snankey was one of his favorite players fifty three Giants.

753
00:35:04,798 --> 00:35:09,718
Speaker 1: He also had Wes Westrom Whitey Lachman, Bill Rigney, Bobby Hoffman.

754
00:35:09,878 --> 00:35:13,158
Speaker 1: All these guys became managers, Joe. It was not by accident,

755
00:35:13,198 --> 00:35:16,038
Speaker 1: and they weren't running through seventy players a year back then,

756
00:35:16,198 --> 00:35:19,078
Speaker 1: you know, maybe at most thirty players. And he had

757
00:35:19,078 --> 00:35:23,558
Speaker 1: a whole core of players who became major league managers,

758
00:35:23,758 --> 00:35:26,398
Speaker 1: in some cases minor league managers. I mean it says

759
00:35:26,398 --> 00:35:29,238
Speaker 1: something about the type of player that Leo.

760
00:35:29,118 --> 00:35:31,998
Speaker 3: De Rocher wanted back then. Having Willie May's help too.

761
00:35:32,078 --> 00:35:33,958
Speaker 4: Don't get me wrong, right, stop me if I've said this,

762
00:35:33,998 --> 00:35:35,958
Speaker 4: But Wes Westerron was a good friend of mine and

763
00:35:36,518 --> 00:35:38,958
Speaker 4: I got to sit with Wes at games. He was

764
00:35:38,958 --> 00:35:40,838
Speaker 4: a scout for the Braves when I was a young

765
00:35:40,878 --> 00:35:43,278
Speaker 4: scout with the Angels in the early eighties, and I

766
00:35:43,318 --> 00:35:45,998
Speaker 4: would sit with Wes at Packard Stadium, and Wes was

767
00:35:46,158 --> 00:35:50,598
Speaker 4: extraordinary at picking up pitches from pitchers based on not

768
00:35:50,678 --> 00:35:52,998
Speaker 4: seeing signs or anything but their movements and their glove

769
00:35:53,038 --> 00:35:55,598
Speaker 4: position and stuff like that. So I'm sitting up at

770
00:35:55,638 --> 00:35:58,478
Speaker 4: Packard and we're sitting up a little bit because he'd

771
00:35:58,518 --> 00:36:00,838
Speaker 4: liked to sit away from the maddening crowd, and he

772
00:36:00,918 --> 00:36:02,998
Speaker 4: was Kendall Carter was pitching, and he's calling all these

773
00:36:03,038 --> 00:36:05,878
Speaker 4: pitches at Kendall Kenna was hot stuff at that time.

774
00:36:06,598 --> 00:36:08,638
Speaker 4: So I'm sitting up there and and I couldn't see

775
00:36:08,638 --> 00:36:10,798
Speaker 4: what he saw, and he's calling pitches. And then he

776
00:36:10,798 --> 00:36:12,638
Speaker 4: told me about the times with the Giants coach in

777
00:36:12,678 --> 00:36:15,278
Speaker 4: first base, how he would call pictures for Mason McCovey,

778
00:36:15,518 --> 00:36:17,558
Speaker 4: again not by picking in at the catcher, but looking

779
00:36:17,598 --> 00:36:19,758
Speaker 4: at what the picture was doing on the mount and

780
00:36:19,798 --> 00:36:22,118
Speaker 4: how he would set up and it was just extraordinary

781
00:36:22,878 --> 00:36:26,678
Speaker 4: how Wes could pick these things up. Really, a humble man,

782
00:36:27,158 --> 00:36:31,478
Speaker 4: fun guy from somewhere in Minnesota played in the World

783
00:36:31,558 --> 00:36:34,158
Speaker 4: Series with this New York Giants at the pologrounds. I've

784
00:36:34,158 --> 00:36:37,518
Speaker 4: seen photographs number nine, I believe, but you bring up Wes.

785
00:36:37,638 --> 00:36:41,838
Speaker 4: I mean, this guy treated me so well and he

786
00:36:41,998 --> 00:36:44,638
Speaker 4: was just it was so interesting. This is this is

787
00:36:44,718 --> 00:36:48,358
Speaker 4: like he saw the game differently because there was no

788
00:36:48,478 --> 00:36:51,038
Speaker 4: other way to get better at this except to really

789
00:36:51,478 --> 00:36:54,758
Speaker 4: focus and concentrate on what you're seeing if you want

790
00:36:54,758 --> 00:36:56,278
Speaker 4: to look for an edge, and that's what he did.

791
00:36:56,358 --> 00:36:59,918
Speaker 4: So West Western really warm spar to my heart, warm

792
00:36:59,958 --> 00:37:00,678
Speaker 4: spot in my heart.

793
00:37:00,958 --> 00:37:01,438
Speaker 3: Very cool.

794
00:37:01,478 --> 00:37:03,078
Speaker 1: Hey, here on the Book of Joe, we like to

795
00:37:03,118 --> 00:37:06,838
Speaker 1: acknowledge when we hear about the passing of certain legends,

796
00:37:06,918 --> 00:37:09,558
Speaker 1: whether in the baseball world or especially in the music world,

797
00:37:09,638 --> 00:37:12,238
Speaker 1: and we'll do that. We have to do that right

798
00:37:12,278 --> 00:37:13,558
Speaker 1: after this quick break.

799
00:37:13,358 --> 00:37:15,038
Speaker 5: On the Book of Joe.

800
00:37:27,798 --> 00:37:29,118
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Book of Joe.

801
00:37:29,678 --> 00:37:29,838
Speaker 2: Joe.

802
00:37:29,878 --> 00:37:32,158
Speaker 1: It's a tough week in the music world with the

803
00:37:32,158 --> 00:37:36,878
Speaker 1: loss of both Sly and Stone and Brian Wilson lost

804
00:37:36,918 --> 00:37:39,278
Speaker 1: both of them last week. They've got to be on

805
00:37:39,318 --> 00:37:42,158
Speaker 1: your playlist. I'm thinking Joe both in both cases.

806
00:37:42,478 --> 00:37:43,958
Speaker 2: Yes, starting with Sly.

807
00:37:44,598 --> 00:37:46,678
Speaker 4: My brother Mark was really big on them back in

808
00:37:46,718 --> 00:37:48,518
Speaker 4: the day and I was more of a latent faller

809
00:37:48,558 --> 00:37:49,398
Speaker 4: and I love them, man.

810
00:37:49,438 --> 00:37:51,438
Speaker 2: I I really I haven't. I haven't had the.

811
00:37:51,398 --> 00:37:53,718
Speaker 4: Tribua because I have these big speakers outside my house

812
00:37:53,718 --> 00:37:56,558
Speaker 4: that I play. Golfers are golfing and they could hear

813
00:37:56,758 --> 00:37:58,798
Speaker 4: music from my house, and I have not had my

814
00:37:58,878 --> 00:38:01,198
Speaker 4: tribute to Sly. I'm going to start that today the

815
00:38:01,278 --> 00:38:04,478
Speaker 4: last couple of days. My tribute to Brian Wilson and

816
00:38:04,518 --> 00:38:06,758
Speaker 4: the Beach Boys. It's all You've been doing a little

817
00:38:06,758 --> 00:38:09,118
Speaker 4: tournament over the weekend. I had them, you know, blaring

818
00:38:09,198 --> 00:38:12,478
Speaker 4: really loud. Yes, I mean for those that really haven't

819
00:38:12,478 --> 00:38:15,038
Speaker 4: listened to the slide and the family Stone stuff. Really,

820
00:38:15,358 --> 00:38:19,558
Speaker 4: you do yourself a favor, so creative, such a great sound.

821
00:38:21,038 --> 00:38:22,998
Speaker 2: Oh my god, just stop.

822
00:38:23,118 --> 00:38:24,558
Speaker 4: And I'm going to do that today. Thank you for

823
00:38:24,558 --> 00:38:27,158
Speaker 4: reminding me about that. And on the other side, I

824
00:38:27,398 --> 00:38:31,518
Speaker 4: always felt some kind of a kinship to the Beach Boys,

825
00:38:31,518 --> 00:38:34,038
Speaker 4: only because I did so much time in southern California.

826
00:38:34,518 --> 00:38:37,158
Speaker 4: Long Beach was my first stop in seventy six as

827
00:38:37,198 --> 00:38:39,678
Speaker 4: a young angel. He was born in Hawthor not that

828
00:38:39,798 --> 00:38:40,918
Speaker 4: far away or they were.

829
00:38:41,478 --> 00:38:41,998
Speaker 2: And then the.

830
00:38:41,998 --> 00:38:44,398
Speaker 4: Music itself, I mean, at that time was so enamored

831
00:38:44,398 --> 00:38:48,198
Speaker 4: with everything about, you know, California girls and all this stuff.

832
00:38:48,238 --> 00:38:50,798
Speaker 4: Southern California and going to the beach and stuff I

833
00:38:50,878 --> 00:38:53,878
Speaker 4: never listened. I'm looking at coal deposits here in Pennsylvania.

834
00:38:54,318 --> 00:38:55,438
Speaker 2: So it was such.

835
00:38:56,958 --> 00:38:59,878
Speaker 4: A different experience for me from where I came from

836
00:38:59,878 --> 00:39:01,718
Speaker 4: to eventually landing there.

837
00:39:01,758 --> 00:39:04,598
Speaker 2: And then the more you really got.

838
00:39:04,478 --> 00:39:07,278
Speaker 4: Into the music and how much they were admired, the

839
00:39:07,278 --> 00:39:10,758
Speaker 4: Beach Boys and hymns, particularly by the Beatles and everybody else,

840
00:39:11,118 --> 00:39:13,198
Speaker 4: and then you really started listening and then you hear

841
00:39:13,198 --> 00:39:16,798
Speaker 4: about good vibrations, what done in four different studios. The

842
00:39:17,198 --> 00:39:20,758
Speaker 4: genius of what he did is everlasting, no question. So

843
00:39:20,798 --> 00:39:22,678
Speaker 4: I'm always been a huge fan of there, but I

844
00:39:22,838 --> 00:39:25,838
Speaker 4: just wanted to pin or point out sliding the family stone.

845
00:39:25,918 --> 00:39:29,598
Speaker 4: That stuff there is so unique and their sound was

846
00:39:29,638 --> 00:39:32,198
Speaker 4: so great, and it really was a sign of the

847
00:39:32,198 --> 00:39:34,398
Speaker 4: early late sixties early seventies for me.

848
00:39:34,638 --> 00:39:36,558
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it holds up so well.

849
00:39:36,638 --> 00:39:36,918
Speaker 2: Yeah.

850
00:39:37,198 --> 00:39:40,718
Speaker 1: Sly and Brian Wilson were born just nine months apart.

851
00:39:41,438 --> 00:39:43,158
Speaker 3: They died two days apart.

852
00:39:44,118 --> 00:39:47,798
Speaker 1: Some other similarities, just musical geniuses who also had some

853
00:39:47,838 --> 00:39:51,918
Speaker 1: mental health and substance abuse issues. A lot of darkness

854
00:39:51,918 --> 00:39:54,958
Speaker 1: often associated with genius for Brian Wilson, and went back

855
00:39:54,998 --> 00:39:57,638
Speaker 1: to growing up and being abused by his father.

856
00:39:58,558 --> 00:40:00,558
Speaker 3: But you're right about sly Stone.

857
00:40:00,638 --> 00:40:03,918
Speaker 1: I mean they were innovative, right when you think about

858
00:40:03,998 --> 00:40:07,158
Speaker 1: out the way they fused, you know, all kinds of

859
00:40:07,238 --> 00:40:11,038
Speaker 1: genres and music, and you know, it started out he

860
00:40:11,078 --> 00:40:13,838
Speaker 1: had his brother on guitar, his sister was on keyboards.

861
00:40:14,518 --> 00:40:16,318
Speaker 1: He had a couple of Italians in the band on

862
00:40:16,398 --> 00:40:19,758
Speaker 1: drums and saxophone. You know, it was women, it was men,

863
00:40:19,798 --> 00:40:22,678
Speaker 1: it was black, it was white. It really was everyday people,

864
00:40:22,878 --> 00:40:26,318
Speaker 1: the living version of it. And as he said, it

865
00:40:26,358 --> 00:40:28,958
Speaker 1: was kind of music that held up forever. And then

866
00:40:28,998 --> 00:40:31,838
Speaker 1: you had the Beach Boys, Brian Wilson, I mean the

867
00:40:32,478 --> 00:40:35,478
Speaker 1: Beatles said back then it was you know, they made

868
00:40:35,478 --> 00:40:38,198
Speaker 1: each other better, the Beatles and the Beach Boys. They

869
00:40:38,198 --> 00:40:40,438
Speaker 1: were kind of going back and forth with creativity in

870
00:40:40,438 --> 00:40:44,238
Speaker 1: their albums and number one hits. Brian Wilson never got

871
00:40:44,278 --> 00:40:46,838
Speaker 1: on a surfboard in his life, but somehow he captured

872
00:40:47,358 --> 00:40:51,758
Speaker 1: that vibe right, the youthfulness of California, and it really

873
00:40:52,358 --> 00:40:55,478
Speaker 1: kind of defined California in the sixties and going forward

874
00:40:56,278 --> 00:41:00,718
Speaker 1: as a place of opportunity and vibrancy and youthfulness just

875
00:41:00,798 --> 00:41:03,318
Speaker 1: to legends. Really, Joe, when you think about the mark

876
00:41:03,358 --> 00:41:06,358
Speaker 1: that they left on the music industry that really still

877
00:41:06,358 --> 00:41:08,998
Speaker 1: remains and that is the ultimate test, is the test

878
00:41:08,998 --> 00:41:09,398
Speaker 1: of time.

879
00:41:09,958 --> 00:41:12,798
Speaker 4: You think about It's like the Endless Summer that was

880
00:41:12,838 --> 00:41:15,998
Speaker 4: such a big gig, and there's a great poster, uh,

881
00:41:16,118 --> 00:41:18,038
Speaker 4: the Endless Summer with the guy with the beach board

882
00:41:18,038 --> 00:41:20,278
Speaker 4: that the multi colored and that's that's what I think

883
00:41:20,278 --> 00:41:22,078
Speaker 4: of when I think of the Beach Boys in the

884
00:41:22,838 --> 00:41:25,158
Speaker 4: and sly, just think of that that part of the world,

885
00:41:25,238 --> 00:41:28,518
Speaker 4: that that side of the United States, Uh, the Endless

886
00:41:28,518 --> 00:41:32,438
Speaker 4: Summer and then forever young. I mean, their music, you know,

887
00:41:32,598 --> 00:41:36,238
Speaker 4: really permits the mind to wonder back in time. And

888
00:41:36,278 --> 00:41:39,318
Speaker 4: it's always a warm fuzzy there's always a warm fuzzy

889
00:41:39,358 --> 00:41:41,198
Speaker 4: about it, whether it was on an AM radio, in

890
00:41:41,238 --> 00:41:46,518
Speaker 4: a car, on a scratchy phonograph. Uh, you know, because

891
00:41:46,518 --> 00:41:48,718
Speaker 4: we didn't have the high tech stuff. My my mom

892
00:41:48,758 --> 00:41:50,718
Speaker 4: and dad had a fil Go like a blonde Filco

893
00:41:51,038 --> 00:41:52,998
Speaker 4: record player that I used to play all my stuff on.

894
00:41:53,518 --> 00:41:55,998
Speaker 4: So the sound wasn't great, but but it was it

895
00:41:56,038 --> 00:41:59,678
Speaker 4: was fabulous. So, uh, this this whole thing I've had

896
00:41:59,678 --> 00:42:01,558
Speaker 4: the Beach Boys blaring for the last couple of days

897
00:42:01,558 --> 00:42:03,838
Speaker 4: today is going to be slying the family Stone, And

898
00:42:04,158 --> 00:42:07,958
Speaker 4: I'm telling you, man, there's a projection you back in

899
00:42:08,038 --> 00:42:12,238
Speaker 4: time so easily, and it does. It becomes very nostalgic,

900
00:42:12,358 --> 00:42:14,918
Speaker 4: very quickly. It is the endless summer and it is

901
00:42:14,958 --> 00:42:18,398
Speaker 4: forever young. And that for those two reasons alone, I

902
00:42:18,438 --> 00:42:20,318
Speaker 4: love both of these groups and these people.

903
00:42:20,798 --> 00:42:23,198
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe the height of it for slying the Family

904
00:42:23,238 --> 00:42:27,358
Speaker 1: Stone was Woodstock, right, Yeah, it was three thirty in

905
00:42:27,358 --> 00:42:30,078
Speaker 1: the morning when they got on stage in a downpour

906
00:42:30,918 --> 00:42:33,838
Speaker 1: and they just own the place. Half a million people

907
00:42:33,838 --> 00:42:35,438
Speaker 1: were there by the way, at three thirty in the

908
00:42:35,478 --> 00:42:38,478
Speaker 1: morning listening to Slie in the Family Stone. Things kind

909
00:42:38,518 --> 00:42:41,118
Speaker 1: of went downhill after that again, the drug use there.

910
00:42:41,878 --> 00:42:44,838
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy they had eighty concert dates and they

911
00:42:44,918 --> 00:42:47,518
Speaker 1: canceled twenty six of them. They just didn't show up.

912
00:42:48,118 --> 00:42:51,438
Speaker 1: They just couldn't get themselves to perform. So there is

913
00:42:51,478 --> 00:42:54,638
Speaker 1: some sadness to it in both cases, but certainly the

914
00:42:54,718 --> 00:42:56,478
Speaker 1: music and the genius of those two live on.

915
00:42:56,918 --> 00:43:00,838
Speaker 4: I guess genius comes at a price sometimes, right, There's

916
00:43:00,878 --> 00:43:05,598
Speaker 4: got to be some form of demon always lurking because

917
00:43:05,638 --> 00:43:08,558
Speaker 4: they're they're they're constantly in a state of creativity constantly,

918
00:43:09,158 --> 00:43:11,758
Speaker 4: and they're probably pushed by the fact that what they

919
00:43:11,758 --> 00:43:14,238
Speaker 4: had just done was so great and considered so wonderful.

920
00:43:14,758 --> 00:43:16,198
Speaker 2: How do I do it again? How do I make

921
00:43:16,198 --> 00:43:16,638
Speaker 2: it better?

922
00:43:16,838 --> 00:43:20,158
Speaker 4: Where's my next motivating thought going to come from? What's

923
00:43:20,158 --> 00:43:24,358
Speaker 4: the next idea? You know, we talk about books a

924
00:43:24,358 --> 00:43:27,438
Speaker 4: lot of times, and I've always avid reader. I've always

925
00:43:27,798 --> 00:43:29,718
Speaker 4: really liked to go back to the first book that

926
00:43:30,238 --> 00:43:32,678
Speaker 4: some of my favorite writers have written, whether it was

927
00:43:32,718 --> 00:43:35,238
Speaker 4: Pat Conroy and even you know John Grisham when he

928
00:43:35,278 --> 00:43:37,958
Speaker 4: started turning stuff out the time they kill back in

929
00:43:37,998 --> 00:43:42,118
Speaker 4: the day, all these dudes, I always wanted the first.

930
00:43:42,158 --> 00:43:43,518
Speaker 4: I wanted to go back to the first because I

931
00:43:43,518 --> 00:43:47,918
Speaker 4: always thought that first album, that first book, really was

932
00:43:47,918 --> 00:43:50,318
Speaker 4: the culmination of so many years of I don't want

933
00:43:50,318 --> 00:43:53,398
Speaker 4: to use the words suffering in a sense, but struggling in.

934
00:43:53,398 --> 00:43:55,598
Speaker 2: Order to get to the point where there's a lot

935
00:43:55,598 --> 00:43:56,198
Speaker 2: of doubt.

936
00:43:56,118 --> 00:43:58,558
Speaker 4: That they didn't know it was going to work after

937
00:43:58,598 --> 00:44:01,038
Speaker 4: it's all said and done. Everything, Yeah it's easy, it's great,

938
00:44:01,198 --> 00:44:03,918
Speaker 4: of course, but they didn't know that before it became great,

939
00:44:04,518 --> 00:44:06,558
Speaker 4: and so there's a lot of struggle involved, and there's

940
00:44:06,558 --> 00:44:09,038
Speaker 4: a lot of push and there's a lot of doubt

941
00:44:09,118 --> 00:44:12,678
Speaker 4: filled nights, I'm sure so I just think that when

942
00:44:12,718 --> 00:44:15,398
Speaker 4: you're that genius like and you have such a high

943
00:44:15,438 --> 00:44:18,358
Speaker 4: level of creativity, the thought of having to constantly push

944
00:44:18,358 --> 00:44:21,198
Speaker 4: yourself to do better probably has something to do with

945
00:44:21,478 --> 00:44:22,998
Speaker 4: why they had such a difficult time.

946
00:44:23,238 --> 00:44:24,638
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that theory, Joe.

947
00:44:24,718 --> 00:44:27,718
Speaker 1: And I also think when you share your creativity with

948
00:44:27,798 --> 00:44:32,318
Speaker 1: the world, right, it changes the dynamic, especially I think

949
00:44:32,638 --> 00:44:35,518
Speaker 1: in something as public facing as the music world, right,

950
00:44:36,038 --> 00:44:40,198
Speaker 1: I think the writing business tends to be more introverted,

951
00:44:40,238 --> 00:44:43,398
Speaker 1: if you will, more isolated, whereas you know, to go

952
00:44:43,438 --> 00:44:46,558
Speaker 1: out there and perform and to share everything, share yourself

953
00:44:46,558 --> 00:44:50,878
Speaker 1: with the world like that, there's responsibilities that. Let's face it,

954
00:44:50,998 --> 00:44:54,558
Speaker 1: not everybody really is geared up for it. They're not

955
00:44:54,638 --> 00:44:57,318
Speaker 1: wired that way. Some love it, absolutely love it being

956
00:44:57,358 --> 00:44:59,838
Speaker 1: up there on stage. Others maybe not so much that

957
00:44:59,958 --> 00:45:02,918
Speaker 1: the music is what gets them off, not so much

958
00:45:03,358 --> 00:45:07,118
Speaker 1: the adoration that comes back. And I'm gonna finish this

959
00:45:07,158 --> 00:45:09,638
Speaker 1: thought by bringing it back to show he Otani, because

960
00:45:09,758 --> 00:45:12,238
Speaker 1: I mean, who gets more adoration than show Hey, right,

961
00:45:12,958 --> 00:45:16,638
Speaker 1: The demands on him are just enormous. He is the

962
00:45:16,678 --> 00:45:19,918
Speaker 1: Beatles in a baseball uniform, and yet the way he

963
00:45:19,998 --> 00:45:22,678
Speaker 1: handles it, Joe is amazing. I spoke with someone with

964
00:45:22,718 --> 00:45:25,598
Speaker 1: the Dodgers who said, the most amazing thing about show Hey,

965
00:45:25,638 --> 00:45:29,198
Speaker 1: besides the physical skills, which again we all are blown

966
00:45:29,198 --> 00:45:32,078
Speaker 1: away by, is the fact that he feels no stress,

967
00:45:32,758 --> 00:45:34,918
Speaker 1: which is amazing when you think about it. Sho Hey

968
00:45:34,918 --> 00:45:37,598
Speaker 1: plays this game. It's a cliche, but he does play

969
00:45:37,598 --> 00:45:40,838
Speaker 1: it like a child. And you think about when baseball

970
00:45:40,878 --> 00:45:44,958
Speaker 1: is the most fun, it's the least stressful. And somehow

971
00:45:45,078 --> 00:45:48,198
Speaker 1: show Hey is able to go out and keep performing

972
00:45:48,238 --> 00:45:50,798
Speaker 1: at this level we have never seen before, to keep

973
00:45:50,838 --> 00:45:53,758
Speaker 1: amazing us by doing things even he hasn't done before,

974
00:45:54,558 --> 00:45:57,638
Speaker 1: and yet do it with no stress on him whatsoever.

975
00:45:57,958 --> 00:46:00,918
Speaker 1: I don't know how he's been able to do that, Joe,

976
00:46:00,958 --> 00:46:04,918
Speaker 1: But watch him play, watch him pitch, the joy that

977
00:46:04,998 --> 00:46:07,918
Speaker 1: he plays the game with. I want to say it's

978
00:46:07,958 --> 00:46:10,398
Speaker 1: easy because I know how dedicated he is to being

979
00:46:10,678 --> 00:46:11,718
Speaker 1: the best that he can be.

980
00:46:11,758 --> 00:46:12,918
Speaker 3: There's a lot of hard work.

981
00:46:13,638 --> 00:46:16,198
Speaker 1: It's the lack of stress to me, in a very

982
00:46:16,238 --> 00:46:19,238
Speaker 1: stressful game with a ton of failure and for him,

983
00:46:19,358 --> 00:46:22,038
Speaker 1: especially a ton of attention that blows me away.

984
00:46:22,318 --> 00:46:25,598
Speaker 4: That is years of preparation, that is yours, of building confidence,

985
00:46:26,918 --> 00:46:32,198
Speaker 4: that is building a belief in yourself, that you know,

986
00:46:32,518 --> 00:46:34,518
Speaker 4: you know what you know, and you can bring it

987
00:46:34,558 --> 00:46:39,598
Speaker 4: to bear on a daily basis. You kind of repel criticism,

988
00:46:39,718 --> 00:46:41,558
Speaker 4: not to the point where you may listen to it.

989
00:46:41,558 --> 00:46:45,078
Speaker 4: Obviously you have to at times, but you know when

990
00:46:45,118 --> 00:46:46,758
Speaker 4: you might be off track and you got to maybe

991
00:46:46,758 --> 00:46:50,478
Speaker 4: get some advice from somebody else. But people like him,

992
00:46:50,638 --> 00:46:53,798
Speaker 4: they have this unbelievable belief system in what they're doing

993
00:46:53,798 --> 00:46:56,158
Speaker 4: and how they're doing it, and that it's right, and

994
00:46:56,198 --> 00:47:02,278
Speaker 4: that they have this foundation bedrock of things they believe in.

995
00:47:02,838 --> 00:47:05,718
Speaker 4: And I think with that they're able to withstand the

996
00:47:05,758 --> 00:47:09,598
Speaker 4: onslaught from those coming from outside in.

997
00:47:10,078 --> 00:47:11,718
Speaker 2: And I've used the phrase know what you know.

998
00:47:11,838 --> 00:47:14,238
Speaker 4: I mean a lot of people that's almost sounds like

999
00:47:14,278 --> 00:47:18,038
Speaker 4: a yogism. But you spend your life gaining experience and

1000
00:47:18,078 --> 00:47:21,838
Speaker 4: doing different things and creating who you are, and at

1001
00:47:21,838 --> 00:47:22,918
Speaker 4: some point, I mean, I think.

1002
00:47:22,758 --> 00:47:26,158
Speaker 2: In today's world, so many people have no idea of

1003
00:47:26,198 --> 00:47:26,678
Speaker 2: what they know.

1004
00:47:26,718 --> 00:47:29,078
Speaker 4: They're always constantly looking for somebody else to give them

1005
00:47:29,078 --> 00:47:31,798
Speaker 4: guidance and put them in the direction, and unable to

1006
00:47:31,878 --> 00:47:34,678
Speaker 4: almost become paralyzed by the thought of making up their

1007
00:47:34,718 --> 00:47:38,238
Speaker 4: own mind and making decisions for themselves. That group that's

1008
00:47:38,638 --> 00:47:41,078
Speaker 4: really done properly if they're earned the right to be

1009
00:47:41,118 --> 00:47:44,078
Speaker 4: wherever they're at because they've gone through the We've talked

1010
00:47:44,078 --> 00:47:46,238
Speaker 4: about the struggle, and.

1011
00:47:45,838 --> 00:47:47,998
Speaker 2: By doing that, you learn what works for you and

1012
00:47:47,998 --> 00:47:48,918
Speaker 2: what doesn't work for you.

1013
00:47:49,358 --> 00:47:51,958
Speaker 4: And really, at the end of the day, man, and

1014
00:47:51,998 --> 00:47:54,518
Speaker 4: I show hey, and I think anybody that's really very

1015
00:47:54,518 --> 00:47:57,278
Speaker 4: good at what they do, you can't worry about what

1016
00:47:57,358 --> 00:47:59,918
Speaker 4: everybody else thinks all the time, and you just divide

1017
00:47:59,918 --> 00:48:02,038
Speaker 4: it up. Fifty percent may like you and fifty percent

1018
00:48:02,118 --> 00:48:04,438
Speaker 4: may not. So play to the fifty sent that you

1019
00:48:04,438 --> 00:48:07,238
Speaker 4: know that they do like you or what you do

1020
00:48:07,318 --> 00:48:09,318
Speaker 4: or how you do it. So, you know, I want

1021
00:48:09,318 --> 00:48:10,438
Speaker 4: to believe I have a little bit of that in

1022
00:48:10,518 --> 00:48:13,918
Speaker 4: me too, because you know, you get criticized for coming

1023
00:48:13,918 --> 00:48:16,398
Speaker 4: off too strongly sometimes. I'm only do that because this

1024
00:48:16,478 --> 00:48:18,638
Speaker 4: is what I believe in, you know, this is the

1025
00:48:18,678 --> 00:48:21,678
Speaker 4: things that I've done over time. And of course you

1026
00:48:21,678 --> 00:48:23,198
Speaker 4: could give me your opinion, and of course you can

1027
00:48:23,638 --> 00:48:25,718
Speaker 4: make me rethink possibly my position on things.

1028
00:48:25,758 --> 00:48:28,318
Speaker 2: But at least I have an opinion that's been.

1029
00:48:28,198 --> 00:48:31,078
Speaker 4: Forged through years of doing things and a lot of

1030
00:48:31,078 --> 00:48:36,198
Speaker 4: failure involved also, So that's that's it, man. I think

1031
00:48:36,238 --> 00:48:38,878
Speaker 4: they're the fact that they've they've the trial and error

1032
00:48:39,958 --> 00:48:42,878
Speaker 4: part of that, and if they've endured the struggle out

1033
00:48:42,958 --> 00:48:45,558
Speaker 4: of sight nobody's seen it, and then eventually arrive with

1034
00:48:45,638 --> 00:48:47,478
Speaker 4: some things that work for you, and then you hold

1035
00:48:47,518 --> 00:48:50,078
Speaker 4: on to them tightly. And at the end of the day,

1036
00:48:50,518 --> 00:48:52,758
Speaker 4: the whole world revolves around the word confidence. If you

1037
00:48:52,838 --> 00:48:55,198
Speaker 4: got it, you're able to withstand and if you don't,

1038
00:48:55,798 --> 00:48:59,038
Speaker 4: whatever that thing is, it makes makes it much more difficult.

1039
00:48:59,238 --> 00:49:00,598
Speaker 3: Oh, I love all those thoughts.

1040
00:49:00,638 --> 00:49:03,678
Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about really the purity of intent,

1041
00:49:04,238 --> 00:49:08,558
Speaker 1: where there are no hidden agendas. You know, I can't

1042
00:49:08,558 --> 00:49:11,598
Speaker 1: stand that when people do something for agendas that are

1043
00:49:11,718 --> 00:49:14,078
Speaker 1: not apparent. If you do it because, as you said, Joe,

1044
00:49:14,078 --> 00:49:15,878
Speaker 1: you believe in it and you believe it's the right

1045
00:49:15,958 --> 00:49:19,238
Speaker 1: thing to do, that's tough to argue with. Those are

1046
00:49:19,278 --> 00:49:21,278
Speaker 1: all great thoughts. But I know, Joe, you've got something

1047
00:49:21,278 --> 00:49:23,158
Speaker 1: else for us, because you always do. You bring us

1048
00:49:23,198 --> 00:49:25,758
Speaker 1: home with some words of the words of wisdom, our

1049
00:49:25,798 --> 00:49:28,038
Speaker 1: thoughts of the day. I'm curious where you're going today.

1050
00:49:28,318 --> 00:49:28,758
Speaker 2: I think it.

1051
00:49:29,438 --> 00:49:33,158
Speaker 4: I think it ties in Steve DeMarco. He's a fellow

1052
00:49:33,238 --> 00:49:36,678
Speaker 4: friend of mine. I think we talked about it he's

1053
00:49:37,318 --> 00:49:40,078
Speaker 4: kind of coordinates golf tournaments. He did the Tunnel the

1054
00:49:40,158 --> 00:49:43,238
Speaker 4: Towers down in Nashville recently. And he's got this little

1055
00:49:43,238 --> 00:49:44,878
Speaker 4: thing every day that he sends out quotes of the day,

1056
00:49:44,878 --> 00:49:47,478
Speaker 4: and I'm on his list and he send this one out.

1057
00:49:47,558 --> 00:49:49,398
Speaker 4: I think, I thought, gosh, I love this and it

1058
00:49:49,438 --> 00:49:51,998
Speaker 4: really does this Germaine from a guy by named of

1059
00:49:52,078 --> 00:49:52,958
Speaker 4: Tony Gaskins.

1060
00:49:53,798 --> 00:49:57,678
Speaker 2: You teach people how to treat you by what you tolerate. Wow,

1061
00:49:58,598 --> 00:50:02,478
Speaker 2: isn't it true? After all we are when people meet you,

1062
00:50:03,078 --> 00:50:03,518
Speaker 2: they have no.

1063
00:50:03,518 --> 00:50:06,598
Speaker 4: Idea and they're gonna you know, they said, people with

1064
00:50:06,638 --> 00:50:09,798
Speaker 4: bad intentions are going to prod and poke to find

1065
00:50:09,798 --> 00:50:11,198
Speaker 4: out what they can get away with.

1066
00:50:11,758 --> 00:50:13,318
Speaker 2: So it's really good.

1067
00:50:13,558 --> 00:50:16,718
Speaker 4: Stand up for yourself, man, stand up for yourself, especially

1068
00:50:17,318 --> 00:50:19,038
Speaker 4: if you know what you believe in, you know what

1069
00:50:19,078 --> 00:50:21,398
Speaker 4: you think, and you've earned the right to say different

1070
00:50:21,398 --> 00:50:27,118
Speaker 4: things based on experiences, trial and error, failures, which really

1071
00:50:27,158 --> 00:50:31,038
Speaker 4: is our greatest teacher. And it isn't accountability about our failures.

1072
00:50:31,078 --> 00:50:33,718
Speaker 4: I mean, I was thinking about this yesterday. The word

1073
00:50:33,758 --> 00:50:36,318
Speaker 4: accountability is all used all the time, but really it

1074
00:50:36,358 --> 00:50:40,198
Speaker 4: points to failed moments. Is when we're have to be accountable.

1075
00:50:40,478 --> 00:50:42,718
Speaker 4: So I guess the more accountable you are, maybe that's

1076
00:50:42,718 --> 00:50:44,798
Speaker 4: the more you failed. But you teach people how to

1077
00:50:44,838 --> 00:50:46,558
Speaker 4: treat you about what you tolerate. I thought that was

1078
00:50:46,598 --> 00:50:47,758
Speaker 4: pure genius and I love it.

1079
00:50:47,918 --> 00:50:50,278
Speaker 1: Great stuff, Joe, I really like that. Good way to

1080
00:50:50,358 --> 00:50:52,118
Speaker 1: end this edition of the Book of Joe. We'll see

1081
00:50:52,158 --> 00:51:02,798
Speaker 1: you next time, Thanks Tommy, you will. The Book of

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Speaker 1: Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

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Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.