Speaker 1: Pushkin. Just a quick note here, you can listen to
Speaker 1: all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist,
Speaker 1: which you can find a link to in the show
Speaker 1: notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced
Speaker 1: in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right.
Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode. It's hard to believe Andrew Watt is
Speaker 1: only thirty years old. Just consider the artists he's worked
Speaker 1: with over the last five years. Ozzy Osbourne, Miley Cyrus,
Speaker 1: Sam Smith, Justin Bieber. He's quietly become one of the
Speaker 1: biggest producers in the industry, leading to a nomination of
Speaker 1: the upcoming Grammys for Producer of the Year. But before
Speaker 1: Watt started his production journey five years ago, he was
Speaker 1: a songwriter and guitar player. This song, Ghost in My
Speaker 1: Head is from a twenty fifteen EP he released, and
Speaker 1: it perfectly captures why he's been able to straddle the
Speaker 1: usually firm line between hard rock and pop music. It's
Speaker 1: something he's helped Post Malone do over the last few years,
Speaker 1: and also did from Miley Cyrus on her new album
Speaker 1: Plastic Hearts. In this episode, Andrew Watt talks to Rick
Speaker 1: Rubin about getting to start in music and turning with
Speaker 1: the roots, his journey did becoming a top tier music producer,
Speaker 1: and about a frightening experience with COVID he had in
Speaker 1: the early days of the pandemic. This is broken record
Speaker 1: liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's
Speaker 1: Rick Rubin's conversation with Andrew Watt. Let's start with COVID.
Speaker 1: When did you realize you had it? I was working
Speaker 1: with an artist, and literally, canceling is not something that
Speaker 1: I do ever, because people's time, as you know, right,
Speaker 1: that's the most important thing. Showing up somewhere and being there,
Speaker 1: especially for someone that wants to create with you, It's
Speaker 1: such a blessing to be able to do in the beginning.
Speaker 1: So I'm not a canceller. And I just kind of
Speaker 1: woke up and I was feeling so just fluey and
Speaker 1: not good where I was just like, if I go
Speaker 1: to the studio, I'm gonna maybe get people sick. So
Speaker 1: let me just figure out what's happening. This is March fifth,
Speaker 1: and whenever I would get sick before, which thankfully was
Speaker 1: not that much, you start feeling like kind of dream
Speaker 1: like where you're like, okay, something's in me. That's kind
Speaker 1: of making me not like spaced out totally. I can't
Speaker 1: connect thoughts the right way and everything. So I had
Speaker 1: a doctor come and see me. Did a flu test,
Speaker 1: You're negative? And I'm like, in March were people talking
Speaker 1: about coronavirus? Yet just like it's happening in the world,
Speaker 1: there's no cases in lady. You didn't know anyone who
Speaker 1: had it? Nope. But I said to this doctor that
Speaker 1: was there, I was like, do I have corona? Everyone's
Speaker 1: having it. I have the symptoms. I'm like, my throat's
Speaker 1: hurting me, I have dry cough and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: It's like, there's no way you have corona. It's not
Speaker 1: here in America. Yet they're containing it's containing. It's impossible.
Speaker 1: You have the flu. Do a flu test negative, do
Speaker 1: another one negative, Take this uh Tama flu, Take these
Speaker 1: steroids for the swelling, and and you know, take advil
Speaker 1: all And so I do everything he says, and taking
Speaker 1: it and taking it. I'm not getting better. So I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: I have corona. How long How long was it before
Speaker 1: the next step? Five days? Right, I'm so five days
Speaker 1: You're doing everything. The doctor said, yes, bad flu, taking
Speaker 1: it not getting better, getting better, getting worse, or staying
Speaker 1: the same. Um, just like not getting better. Whereas usually
Speaker 1: like a thing would be whatever, so we passed it.
Speaker 1: Normally would pass quickly. This day like seven days in
Speaker 1: around like March twelve, where I'm like, all right, this
Speaker 1: Tama flu worked and I'm kind of like I feel
Speaker 1: that I'm coming on the other side, right, So call everyone,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm ready to go back to work. I'm
Speaker 1: blah blah. But people are talking about Corona. In this time.
Speaker 1: I find out that Lucy and Grange is like really sick, right,
Speaker 1: and there's this party that happened. You heard about this
Speaker 1: the Palm Springs for his birthday, and a couple of
Speaker 1: people from London were there and they're getting sick. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, maybe I got it. And then I'm better.
Speaker 1: Two days after, I wake up in the middle of
Speaker 1: the night and I'm like hallucinating, you know. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I feel like death. I can't breathe this. I'm like, whoa,
Speaker 1: what's happening? So I called this is worse than it was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: worse than it was. And I call this doctor. I'm
Speaker 1: like this guy was seeing I'm like I gotta get
Speaker 1: to this blah blah, comes over, gives me another flud
Speaker 1: Testa's like, you don't have corona, people don't have it.
Speaker 1: You're like, over and over, take the advill I finally,
Speaker 1: you know, friend of mine got me a different doctor
Speaker 1: who was like a really you know, I guess not
Speaker 1: that this other doctor wasn't a good doctor trying to
Speaker 1: do his best, but no one knows anything at this point, right,
Speaker 1: So he gets me this other doctor and he's like,
Speaker 1: you can't breathe. You're you know, oxygen's lower. We're going
Speaker 1: to the hospital. So go to the hospital. Which hospital
Speaker 1: to go to? I went to UCLA. I'm sitting there.
Speaker 1: I literally can't breathe. It's like a weird feeling. I'm
Speaker 1: twenty nine years old and terrible scary, and I don't
Speaker 1: know what's going on. But I'm like, have you ever
Speaker 1: been in the hospital before. I had been in the
Speaker 1: hospital before, but only for like simple things, never like
Speaker 1: you know, you ever stay in the hospital before, No
Speaker 1: pendix out, that kind of stuff, you know, tonsils, hernia,
Speaker 1: so um, you know, I'm there And finally they're like
Speaker 1: they're giving me a flu test. I'm negative. I'm like,
Speaker 1: can you test me for corona? This other great nice
Speaker 1: doctor comes with me to the hospital. He's like there,
Speaker 1: he's like, test this guy for corona. No one can
Speaker 1: get tests, no one can do anything. So I'm there
Speaker 1: at the hospital. Finally they take me to get a
Speaker 1: chest x ray. They won't test me for anything. Chest
Speaker 1: X ray. My chest X ray comes back with pneumonia. Right,
Speaker 1: they still will not test me for corona. Now is
Speaker 1: everyone around you, all the doctors, everything, We're in masks
Speaker 1: and has matsuits like crazy, but they won't test you.
Speaker 1: Even though they will not test me. No matter what
Speaker 1: I'm doing, I'm texting my manager help me. I need
Speaker 1: to get tested. I don't feel right like I'm at
Speaker 1: this point where I'm like desperate. I never had that
Speaker 1: feeling before of feeling desperate. You know, I'm lucky, I'm blessed.
Speaker 1: I make music. I can't believe it's my job to
Speaker 1: make music and I can kind of do what I want.
Speaker 1: I'm desperate sitting here in this hospital and they will
Speaker 1: not test me even though they know I have pneumonia.
Speaker 1: So they're like, sorry, CDC rules, we can't do it.
Speaker 1: We're only testing old people because they're gonna die. You're young,
Speaker 1: You're not gonna die even if you have it. You
Speaker 1: just need to go home. I wait hours and hours
Speaker 1: and hours for this doctor to come in, and that's
Speaker 1: what they tell me. Right. So the other doctor that's
Speaker 1: there is just like with me. He's like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to my office right now. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get a flu test. I'm going to test you for
Speaker 1: this thing, and I'm going to write on the thing
Speaker 1: this person I'm almost positive he has corona. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: send it to Quest Diagnostics and I'm going to see
Speaker 1: what's going on. So he too give me a flu test,
Speaker 1: but wrote I think this person is corona, left it
Speaker 1: on their doorstep, and they tested it for corona. That's
Speaker 1: how you found out, and that's how I found out
Speaker 1: I was positive for corona. Wow. And you know, all
Speaker 1: the people trying to help me and the people there,
Speaker 1: but it's not their fault. They're following regulations by the government.
Speaker 1: That's who's fault. We all know who I You know,
Speaker 1: I could say it was fault. It is to me,
Speaker 1: and you know they're just not handling it the right way.
Speaker 1: And it's so early. Also, now that you have this,
Speaker 1: no one really knows what to do if you do
Speaker 1: have it anyway, there's no there's no treatments, no one
Speaker 1: knows nothing. So all we can do is read and
Speaker 1: do this stuff. And so I was in bed for
Speaker 1: thirty five days. Wow, how long we in the hospital for.
Speaker 1: Let me go. They're like, they didn't even I didn't
Speaker 1: even get my results that night. They're like, go home
Speaker 1: if you have it, just don't see anyone. Like they
Speaker 1: wouldn't test me, did nothing for me. They're like, you
Speaker 1: have pneumonia. You have pneumonia, just rest yea and go home.
Speaker 1: So you stay in bed for you stay home for
Speaker 1: thirty five days. I'm home in bed and I'm just
Speaker 1: feeling awful, hallucinating. What type of therapeutics are you doing?
Speaker 1: I had a fever for sixteen days, which was you
Speaker 1: go crazy? How high did it go? Up? One oh
Speaker 1: three was the worst, and then it was kind of down. Um,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's really hard for me. I've played guitar,
Speaker 1: you're not so how we met. I came and played
Speaker 1: guitar here. We'll talk about that after. But I played
Speaker 1: guitar every day for my whole life, and I'm suddenly
Speaker 1: not wanting to play guitar because it's I don't want
Speaker 1: to play in this negative place, in this mindset. And then,
Speaker 1: you know, I think just after that and dealing with
Speaker 1: post COVID stuff was tricky, but I got back and
Speaker 1: I think I'm making the best music in my life now.
Speaker 1: So and since you've recovered, have you had any bad
Speaker 1: days or has it been pretty consistently good. I haven't
Speaker 1: had knock on wood a bad day in a really
Speaker 1: long time. But you know, a couple of months ago,
Speaker 1: if I was doing kind of strenuous exercise or really
Speaker 1: pushing myself, I would find myself kind of in like
Speaker 1: a mental fog. And that was hard. But what it
Speaker 1: made me do was, you know, and I'm sure I
Speaker 1: know from talking to you before, but I was working.
Speaker 1: I was the producer that was working twenty four hours
Speaker 1: a day, working the day with someone working the night
Speaker 1: with someone else, my studios, in my house, working on stuff.
Speaker 1: It's made me change my hours and work kind of
Speaker 1: more in a in a more of a scheduled thing.
Speaker 1: If creativity strikes at a different time, then I'll deal
Speaker 1: with that or use it as a decision. But it's
Speaker 1: not a necessity, and so doing that has kind of
Speaker 1: made me take better care of yourself, take better care
Speaker 1: of myself. And if and if I want to exercise,
Speaker 1: I'll do it super early in the morning where it
Speaker 1: doesn't affect my day and I'm not going one thing
Speaker 1: into the other or at nighttime, and just kind of
Speaker 1: finding different ways. I'm not in the gym pounding weights,
Speaker 1: but I never really liked doing that anyway, you know, surfing,
Speaker 1: spending time on the water, paddling, doing yoga, walkding, doing
Speaker 1: really long walk stuff like that. It's all I had
Speaker 1: to adjust like that, and doing those adjustments was not
Speaker 1: really something that affect were in New York did you
Speaker 1: grow up? I grew up in Great Nack, originally in
Speaker 1: Long Island, and then funny, I went to NYU and
Speaker 1: lived in Weinstein dorms, just like someone else I know
Speaker 1: a Long Island that went to New York in New
Speaker 1: York City to try and make music. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to go to college. I wanted to play gigs and
Speaker 1: play and in bars. But like I got through with
Speaker 1: my parents of like, okay, if you get I got
Speaker 1: into NYU, so you gotta go went to Weinstein dorms,
Speaker 1: was making music and out of my dorm room until
Speaker 1: I dropped out. And how was that? What was your first,
Speaker 1: um professional experience in music? My first when I like
Speaker 1: really really kind of professional thing besides just making records
Speaker 1: on my own at my house and everything was. I
Speaker 1: got to NYU and the roots had just started there,
Speaker 1: Jimmy Fallon thing and they were doing these amazing jams
Speaker 1: at the high Line Ballroom in New York because they
Speaker 1: were there and they were, you know, wanted to do it.
Speaker 1: And I remember I waited outside after the show for
Speaker 1: a long time to talk to quest Love. I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to him. I was so he's not only
Speaker 1: one of the costs, but how knowledgeable is that guy?
Speaker 1: Just believable on everything? And I was a big you know,
Speaker 1: I loved his website, Okay player that reviewed music. I
Speaker 1: would find a lot of music on there is it
Speaker 1: just always searching and he's such an audio file you know.
Speaker 1: So anyway, so I talked to him and I was like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I want a jam. I want to jam with you guys.
Speaker 1: Because I would go to jams all the time. I
Speaker 1: would go to blues jams and bring my guitar and
Speaker 1: that's really how I like, I learned to play with
Speaker 1: other people as I had bands, but they my band sucked,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like I went to
Speaker 1: these jams at the cutting Room and the Bitter End
Speaker 1: and the bottom Line and all these places and would
Speaker 1: just be there with my guitar and I'd get up
Speaker 1: and we'd play little wing for no one practiced with
Speaker 1: each other before or superstition, and I'd to learn how
Speaker 1: to catch horn lines and kind of that was like
Speaker 1: really important to me. I would steal a car and
Speaker 1: drive out to Manhattan from Great Neck and do that
Speaker 1: all the time. So I asked quest of if I
Speaker 1: could jam with him, and he was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: talked to this girl she does the jams. He was
Speaker 1: just kind of like really nice and cool. So I
Speaker 1: got this woman's number. Their name was Ginny, and I
Speaker 1: called her probably a thousand times and of seventeen at
Speaker 1: this time, and emailed her and she would not answer me.
Speaker 1: So I was like, Okay, the jam, it's Thursday. It's
Speaker 1: next Thursday. And I didn't hear am I jamming? Am
Speaker 1: I not? So I bring my guitar and I go
Speaker 1: at sound check time. I'm like I'm gonna just sneak
Speaker 1: into this place and go because quest Love will see me.
Speaker 1: And he said, oh yeah, you can jam. And I
Speaker 1: had a big heart, you know, I follow my heart.
Speaker 1: Of course he's gonna let me do that, right, So
Speaker 1: I sneak in. I might come here for the gig
Speaker 1: I'm playing tonight, Sir. Suddenly come right, and people are
Speaker 1: coming at all and quest Love's not there, but that
Speaker 1: woman Ginny is there and she sees me and she's
Speaker 1: just her face goes white, right, and so they're like,
Speaker 1: give me a wrist band. And I'm there and I'm
Speaker 1: waiting by the side of the stage with guitar. All
Speaker 1: these people come. I see Bilal play for the first
Speaker 1: time and he does like a whole lot of love it.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know who Bilal was, and then you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, this guy's incredible, and watching
Speaker 1: Captain Kirk play guitar, who's amazing musician. And I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there and I don't get asked the jam obviously, but
Speaker 1: I see this woman Jinny freaking out the whole time.
Speaker 1: She can't handle what's going on with the amount of
Speaker 1: people that are there and the guys need drinks and
Speaker 1: want to smoke weed, and she's just too much for
Speaker 1: her to handle. And so my brain, I'm in the
Speaker 1: music business program at NYU, my brain goes, I need
Speaker 1: an internship. Maybe this could be my internship. So I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, you know, I know I didn't get
Speaker 1: the jam and stuff like that, but like you seem
Speaker 1: like you need an intern, like you're you have too
Speaker 1: much going on. She was like, I actually do need
Speaker 1: an intern. Here send your resume. So send my resume.
Speaker 1: I get a whole thing, and I get the job
Speaker 1: of being this girl's intern and working at Okay Player
Speaker 1: during the week and helping with the jam every week.
Speaker 1: So I'm backstage every time. I bring my guitar every
Speaker 1: single time, and I never get asked to play, and
Speaker 1: I'm annoying little kid. But I learned how to roll
Speaker 1: blunt from Black Thought and rolling his blunts before it
Speaker 1: was smoking, get drinks for people, and I'm around all
Speaker 1: these amazing musicians, like the best musicians, and and you know,
Speaker 1: I get to know James Poyser really well, and it
Speaker 1: gets you know, Black Thought and Kirk and Quest Love
Speaker 1: and all the people around in their crew, and you know,
Speaker 1: guys from the Fuji's Come and Erica Bad Dude Come,
Speaker 1: and and and Balal and all those people, and I'm
Speaker 1: and I'm just meeting all these people, and I'm open
Speaker 1: to a different kind of music than I was listening
Speaker 1: to them, the rock and roll that I was raised on.
Speaker 1: And this one night happens where um Kirk, his father
Speaker 1: was really sick and couldn't make the gig, and so
Speaker 1: quest looks like, all right, you got your guitar, and
Speaker 1: I didn't have my guitar that so I run back
Speaker 1: to at Weinstein Dorms, get my guitar, come back and
Speaker 1: I got to play that night, and I did great.
Speaker 1: It was one of those moments where I did great.
Speaker 1: You know, I understood the space and I had been
Speaker 1: watching how they did their stuff every night and did great.
Speaker 1: And then they let me jam a bum there and
Speaker 1: would let me play a bunch of times, and I
Speaker 1: met amazing artists and got kind of my first gigs
Speaker 1: playing for artists, not doing my own thing from there,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of how it started. What was your
Speaker 1: first studio gig? My first studio gig, I was making
Speaker 1: my own records, and then the first time I produced
Speaker 1: I was working with this kid, Jared Evan. He was
Speaker 1: signed to Interscope, and I was playing guitar for him
Speaker 1: kind of throw all that stuff, and then he would
Speaker 1: always bring me around with him and want me to
Speaker 1: play guitar. And his guy that was producing him was
Speaker 1: Jimmy Douglas, one of the greats, and he kind of
Speaker 1: taught me how to play guitar and the studio and
Speaker 1: double track myself and get parts and work through stuff.
Speaker 1: And I would play for a long time and then
Speaker 1: he chopped parts out so that I kind of cut
Speaker 1: my teeth that way and then used it to make
Speaker 1: my own records. And then as I was going on
Speaker 1: tour with people, I was on tour with an artist
Speaker 1: named Cody Simpson and Justin and then they wanted me
Speaker 1: to make their records and I just would kind of
Speaker 1: did that and moved out to LA and made that
Speaker 1: one album with Glenn and in Nashville on tape, which
Speaker 1: was a great experience too. I think everyone should make
Speaker 1: an album on tape at some point, just wants to
Speaker 1: see what that process is like. It's a fuck ton
Speaker 1: harder and doesn't really make that much of a difference
Speaker 1: for everyone that says it does. It really doesn't. But
Speaker 1: you know, drums sound great on tape, and I'm so
Speaker 1: happy I had the experience. Now we have all the
Speaker 1: plugins that make it sound like tape anyway, So why
Speaker 1: are you going to do that to yourself? Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I came out here and I had this song that
Speaker 1: I wrote with a friend of mine named Ali tem Posey,
Speaker 1: who's still my number one collaborator until today. We're working
Speaker 1: together on Monday again. We've been working together for nine
Speaker 1: years NonStop, never had an argument. And we wrote the
Speaker 1: song called let Me Love You, which was on a
Speaker 1: guitar and it was a folk song, and it kind
Speaker 1: of got passed around the industry in that way. Everyone
Speaker 1: we've heard this song. And I played it for Justin
Speaker 1: because he was a good friend of mine and he
Speaker 1: really wanted the song, and then everyone else somehow started
Speaker 1: cutting the song. I didn't understand how people were cutting
Speaker 1: my song without asking me or talking to me. It
Speaker 1: felt wrong. It was like, and I told Justin he
Speaker 1: could do the song already. So I kind of had
Speaker 1: to like get involved with that part of the industry,
Speaker 1: which I never did before. I'd start talking to these
Speaker 1: record label guys and these managers and these different people
Speaker 1: and kind of be like no, I learned the power
Speaker 1: of no, kind of the first time, which you know
Speaker 1: you have to say and be like, hey, no, this
Speaker 1: is not actually happening. I don't care what you want
Speaker 1: to pay or what like. I promised this song to
Speaker 1: someone else and so through a long story, justin ended
Speaker 1: up singing the song. And that was my first like
Speaker 1: big hit song and it was such a cool experience
Speaker 1: to I didn't know that it was going to be that.
Speaker 1: I just everyone wanted the song for a reason and
Speaker 1: it was amazing. So like the first time I went
Speaker 1: to one of his shows and I saw him play
Speaker 1: that song and then everyone in the crowd was singing,
Speaker 1: held the mic out and it was words I wrote about,
Speaker 1: like hurt and pain I had, but to them it
Speaker 1: was the happiest thing ever. And it was just like
Speaker 1: in a surreal, amazing experience. And I think it's when
Speaker 1: you see that happened, you want to do that again
Speaker 1: and again and again. And what was the next one?
Speaker 1: The next one after that was a Selena Gomez song
Speaker 1: that she did with Kigo, which was another song that
Speaker 1: was on the guitar. It's called it ain't me. Did
Speaker 1: you write it for her? You just wrote it and
Speaker 1: then she heard it. I just wrote it and played
Speaker 1: it for her because we were friendly, and she loved
Speaker 1: it and cut it kind of instantly. So many of
Speaker 1: my songs that you know became big songs have these
Speaker 1: insane long stories of me flying to Japan for twenty
Speaker 1: four hours and doing all this stuff that I had
Speaker 1: to do to get the record across the finish line,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure you have crazy getting the Getting the
Speaker 1: song sometimes is the easiest part, and getting the artist
Speaker 1: to actually do the song is really hard. Sometimes it
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, but it is. That was the easiest
Speaker 1: song I ever had, that one. She sang the song
Speaker 1: and made her tweaks to it, and she sounded amazing
Speaker 1: on it, and I did the production with I Go,
Speaker 1: and it kind of just came out two months later,
Speaker 1: and so that one was was was awesome. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back with more from Andrew Watt after the break.
Speaker 1: We're back with more from Andrew Watt and Rick Rubin
Speaker 1: talking about their mutual friend drummer of the Red Hot
Speaker 1: Chili Peppers, Chad Smith. What was the first session you
Speaker 1: ever played on with Chad Chad came to play on
Speaker 1: I was when I was signed to Republic Records as
Speaker 1: a rock artist and kind of doing that. He came
Speaker 1: and played on one of my a couple of my songs.
Speaker 1: I had met him. I was in that band with
Speaker 1: Glenn Hughes and Jason Bonham back in the day, and
Speaker 1: I met Chad through that and we just kind of
Speaker 1: became tight. And as you know, Chad loves music more
Speaker 1: than literally anything in the world. And we'll actually play
Speaker 1: on anything and it'll be great, and it will be
Speaker 1: amazing and in any style. And it's so funny. Chad's
Speaker 1: kid is just permanently set up at my house, old
Speaker 1: gretch kid he has, and he's like the house drummer.
Speaker 1: I mean, he plays on everything that we do. So
Speaker 1: we did that and we just kind of became really close.
Speaker 1: And that Blood Sugar album was like my DNA as
Speaker 1: a musician when I was learning how to play all
Speaker 1: these different instruments and the kids that I was playing
Speaker 1: with didn't want to play as much as to me,
Speaker 1: So I just learned everyone's instrument and I learned how
Speaker 1: to play that in that album kind of on every instrument.
Speaker 1: So first time I sat down to play with Chad.
Speaker 1: My instincts were kind of similar to his because that's
Speaker 1: where my DNA was kind of playing. And even now
Speaker 1: when when we're making an Ausie album or something, he
Speaker 1: does a fill and I'm playing a lick, it's a same.
Speaker 1: It's weird we have. We have really similar instincts, which
Speaker 1: is so cool. He told me another amazing story. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm breaking him out because kind of I want to
Speaker 1: know your answers to this kind of stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: we're talking I think like a year and a half ago,
Speaker 1: just about demos of things, and I don't remember how
Speaker 1: exactly it came up, but he played me the demo
Speaker 1: of Californiacation and the music under that song is completely
Speaker 1: different music. It's like, couldn't be anymore any more different,
Speaker 1: But the top line is the same, exactly the same,
Speaker 1: the same words, the same spacing, the same amount of
Speaker 1: verse to the chorus line. And he was like, you know,
Speaker 1: this music was not right. It wasn't you know, not
Speaker 1: that it wasn't that it was good or bad. It
Speaker 1: just wasn't right and it wasn't working. But you pushed
Speaker 1: them really hard to like go and make different music
Speaker 1: for this amazing top line and then it's like, I
Speaker 1: think it's one of their biggest songs. How does that
Speaker 1: process work for you? I honestly don't remember that happening.
Speaker 1: I believe it did happen, but I don't think that
Speaker 1: it was my idea. I have a feeling as I
Speaker 1: remember it, and again I don't remember. Brit Well, we
Speaker 1: had the song and then John came in one day
Speaker 1: and he said, I think I have a different way
Speaker 1: to play the song that's better because the way it
Speaker 1: typically works is the band works on music and then
Speaker 1: Anthony gets inspired by the music he hears, and then
Speaker 1: he writes the melody and then the words, and he
Speaker 1: had gone through that phase, wrote the melody in the
Speaker 1: words to the music the existing music, and then John
Speaker 1: heard the melody in the words and said, hmm, I
Speaker 1: think there's better music, and then he as I remember it,
Speaker 1: John just had the idea to present a different version
Speaker 1: and we all liked it better. Yeah. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think that's the only time that particular thing happened with them.
Speaker 1: It's amazing to not to a lot of people would
Speaker 1: just be like, all right, this one's not working. Like
Speaker 1: an A becomes a C and just just leave it,
Speaker 1: throw it. How many great songs are there that you have,
Speaker 1: you know, like that, but to like work something to
Speaker 1: the bone or repurpose it like that, and then it's
Speaker 1: becomes the comes the album. Always we would always try
Speaker 1: to consider every possibility to make every song as good
Speaker 1: as it could be. That takes patience. Absolutely, That's the
Speaker 1: whole job really is sitting and waiting and going through
Speaker 1: and not making trying options, never thinking you know how
Speaker 1: it's supposed to go. If you think you know how
Speaker 1: it's supposed to go, it'll only be as good as
Speaker 1: you can imagine, Whereas when you watch it happen, you're
Speaker 1: surprised and blown away by how much better it can
Speaker 1: be than what you originally imagine. Yeah, and people get
Speaker 1: frustrated in that process sometimes, and that's a balancing act
Speaker 1: as well. Right, somebody was like, no, I like it
Speaker 1: like someone that's unwilling, and I that one of the
Speaker 1: great Rick advice sessions I had with you was I
Speaker 1: had an artist that was unwilling to do what I
Speaker 1: really really felt strongly was like amazing, And you told
Speaker 1: me you can push so far, but at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, you got to let the artist that's
Speaker 1: earned their right make the decision, you know, So get
Speaker 1: to that crossroad sometimes where if they didn't want to
Speaker 1: change that song, it would have just been what it
Speaker 1: but what it was. Yeah, But hopefully then there's a
Speaker 1: situation where someone does listen and does accept the change
Speaker 1: and it's positive. Yeah, and they're also can't None of
Speaker 1: us are rite all the time either, totally. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like we don't know. We think, we have our opinion,
Speaker 1: we share our opinion, and then we see you know,
Speaker 1: I passed on working with Guns n' Roses, I passed
Speaker 1: on working with Jane's Addiction. You know, I passed on
Speaker 1: working with a lot of people because I just when
Speaker 1: I saw it, I didn't hear it at first. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And maybe that's what's supposed to happen, because had I
Speaker 1: made Appetite for Destruction, it might have been a very
Speaker 1: different album, and maybe it wouldn't have been as good,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it wouldn't have been what it needed
Speaker 1: to be. So who knows, you know, who knows. There's
Speaker 1: so much about the process that's unknown, and we just
Speaker 1: have to ride it and be open to the possibility
Speaker 1: of it being as good as it could be, and
Speaker 1: would I try to sing jest with the artist I
Speaker 1: work with is if we don't both love it at
Speaker 1: the end, then it's not as good as it could be.
Speaker 1: So in both cases, so if you feel strongly about
Speaker 1: it and the artist doesn't like it, that means it's
Speaker 1: not there yet. And if they like a different version
Speaker 1: and you don't like it yet, it's still not done.
Speaker 1: It means there's you haven't really cracked the code. Because
Speaker 1: when you really cracked the code, it's obvious to everyone.
Speaker 1: You couldn't imagine it any other way. Yeah, this is it,
Speaker 1: this is the record. Yeah. So it's just the patience
Speaker 1: of going through that process. It's amazing. Yeah. I had
Speaker 1: an experience the other day. I won't mention the name
Speaker 1: of the artist, but with a producer and an artist
Speaker 1: and they asked my opinion. I gave my opinion, and
Speaker 1: the producer got really defensive and it's like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: I really believe in this direction that we're going. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's like it's fine. I'm just telling you how it
Speaker 1: strikes me. And at least experiment with the suggestion and
Speaker 1: see if anything good comes from it. You never know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes does sometimes doesn't. Yeah, all you can do is
Speaker 1: share your taste. Yeah, it's it's all taste, and there's
Speaker 1: no right or wrong taste. You know, everyone has their own.
Speaker 1: How do you like working with other producers? Like being involved?
Speaker 1: Kind of like that. It's fine. I'm not attached to anything,
Speaker 1: so I can. I'm very comfortable sharing what I like
Speaker 1: and what I don't. Um. I'll give any suggestions of
Speaker 1: possible solutions, but I'm also open to hearing any possible
Speaker 1: solutions and sharing what I think works best. UM. A
Speaker 1: lot of people also, you know, you have you have
Speaker 1: a myth behind you, which is so cool and awesome.
Speaker 1: Nothing cooler than that. UM. And you know, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to share my experience. I got to work with
Speaker 1: you once in the studio and we were you were
Speaker 1: making a Justin Bieber album, UM, which that stuff was
Speaker 1: killing and I'd love to hear it one day if
Speaker 1: it's still this anywhere on a drive somewhere incredible And
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, So I got a phone call
Speaker 1: from Justin um And who who i'd been playing with
Speaker 1: him was on tour with for a while, and he
Speaker 1: was just like, hey, Andy, what are you doing? Can
Speaker 1: you come down to the studio. I'm making this I'm
Speaker 1: making this album. I want you to play guitar. And
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, of course, you know that's awesome.
Speaker 1: Like where are you doing And he's like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: making it with Rick Rubin at Changer Law and I
Speaker 1: was like, what you know. I just got in the
Speaker 1: uber came all the way out. I was like, let's go,
Speaker 1: let's go, let's go, and I and I got to
Speaker 1: I went into that room that we're looking at right there,
Speaker 1: and um, Chris Dave was on drums, who's no one
Speaker 1: better than him? And these other a bunch of other
Speaker 1: amazing musicians, great bass player, great keyboard player. Um, and
Speaker 1: I was the worst musician in the room by far,
Speaker 1: which you know, it's my first time in front of you.
Speaker 1: Justin's put went out on alone. He's like, let me
Speaker 1: bring my guy. You know, I don't know you. I
Speaker 1: know there was another guitar player on the session. I
Speaker 1: don't know what happened to him, But for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I got brought out there and I got thrown into
Speaker 1: the fire. And you had two choices. You either you know,
Speaker 1: suck and can't do the job, where you try and
Speaker 1: rise and that was like such a challenge as a
Speaker 1: musician for me in the best way, and you did
Speaker 1: the coolest thing, which I do constantly as I'm making
Speaker 1: music now. Is kind of like I think you kind
Speaker 1: of I think if I look back on it, the
Speaker 1: reason why I was there is because, like I got
Speaker 1: like Todd how to produce fire. You in that moment
Speaker 1: where you were playing us all this amazing music, You're
Speaker 1: almost like djaying for us. You're playing us because I
Speaker 1: remember you wanted to from what I remember, make stuff
Speaker 1: with Justin. That was like he kept saying, I want
Speaker 1: to make my thriller. I want to make my thriller, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's what he was saying in that time. And
Speaker 1: so you're playing us all this amazing music, you know,
Speaker 1: Hall of Notes and Cheek and other Nile produce stuff
Speaker 1: and some Michael stuff and all different, all different things,
Speaker 1: and you told us as a band, You're like, okay,
Speaker 1: learn this, play along to this. So we had like
Speaker 1: about five or ten minutes to learn what we're hearing.
Speaker 1: And I'm like the keyboard players right there, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what's the course, what's the course? What's the course? Like
Speaker 1: I'm just like I'm holding on but like trying to
Speaker 1: fit in. And we learned the song and then you said, okay,
Speaker 1: now played it in a different key. So now we
Speaker 1: start playing in a different key. And then you say, okay,
Speaker 1: now play it at this tempo. So then we start
Speaker 1: playing at a different tempo. And then you said, okay,
Speaker 1: now don't play it at all. Just play something that's
Speaker 1: like it. That's not it, but that's like it, that
Speaker 1: feels like it, And we would start doing that, and
Speaker 1: then the red button would get pressed and it was
Speaker 1: such a good exercise in like, you know, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: the times where you write a riff that is in
Speaker 1: your heart or whatever and it comes and it's like,
Speaker 1: but you have a bunch of musicians in a room,
Speaker 1: and to guide us into making music that would be
Speaker 1: appropriate for what you wanted to make with him was
Speaker 1: such a such a cool experience. And then the thing
Speaker 1: I was really amazing was you would come into the
Speaker 1: room and you only you didn't talk to us on
Speaker 1: the talkback. You only talk to us if we were
Speaker 1: doing something that you didn't like. If we were doing
Speaker 1: something that you liked, we weren't. We weren't sculpted. I
Speaker 1: just kept playing the part that I was doing over
Speaker 1: and over again. And if you wanted Chris to change
Speaker 1: your pattern, you kind of took an ear off him
Speaker 1: and told him, or if you wanted me to do something,
Speaker 1: you kind of told me. And that was such like
Speaker 1: a hands on, like amazing exercise. And I don't remember
Speaker 1: what the music sounded like because it was so long ago,
Speaker 1: but it was incredible. And I've made so much of
Speaker 1: my music exactly like that music that's out from there,
Speaker 1: and it was you know, when was the first time
Speaker 1: you did that? What was that might have been the
Speaker 1: first time? Honestly, you remember the process kind of going.
Speaker 1: I remember the process exactly. It's because usually when I
Speaker 1: go into the studio, we go into the student Typically
Speaker 1: we go into the studio with songs already written. I
Speaker 1: don't usually go into the studio with a blank slate
Speaker 1: to make something. Justin wanted to go in with more
Speaker 1: of a blank slate, which was not the way I
Speaker 1: normally work, but I'm down to try whatever. So this
Speaker 1: was a way to jump start the process, to try
Speaker 1: to find grooves or fields or directions, starting points and
Speaker 1: then hopefully that would inspire a vocal idea and which
Speaker 1: when he was up for doing. It was incredible every time, amazing,
Speaker 1: like ridiculous right over there, ridiculous. So then the vocal
Speaker 1: idea would happen, and Matt would kind of determine what's
Speaker 1: supposed to happen next, you know, because now we sort
Speaker 1: of have the maybe not a whole song, but a
Speaker 1: part of a song, like usually the key part of
Speaker 1: the song, maybe not the hook or sometimes just the hook,
Speaker 1: but but like a key component. And Mean's like, okay,
Speaker 1: if this is this part what naturally wants to happen next,
Speaker 1: and you try all the different variations and see where
Speaker 1: it goes. It's amazing. People don't realize how unbelievable of
Speaker 1: a musician he really is, like as a singer, as
Speaker 1: a drummer, as a piano player, like he's it's not
Speaker 1: just like part of the show. I mean, he's really
Speaker 1: is super time gifted like that. And I think he
Speaker 1: really enjoyed that process so much. You know, I want
Speaker 1: to hear those tapes at some point. There's some good
Speaker 1: stuff on there. Yeah. Do you think of yourself more
Speaker 1: now as a songwriter, producer or a guitar player? I
Speaker 1: don't know. Um, I think a producer would you say
Speaker 1: you spend most of your time in producer mode. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: makes sense. One thing that I was thinking about the
Speaker 1: other day was I just made this amazing album with
Speaker 1: Miley Cyrus, which I'm so excited about. It's only her
Speaker 1: doing her like rock thing and singing, and the songs
Speaker 1: are totally have you know, their hookie and poppy and
Speaker 1: where they need to be and stuff. But it's her
Speaker 1: really in her ross form. And I was closing my
Speaker 1: eyes the other day as I was making music with
Speaker 1: her headphones on because my studio we have it kind
Speaker 1: of all open, and I was closing my eyes and
Speaker 1: I was listening to this incredible voice come out, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I am so lucky to like listen to
Speaker 1: the human voice. The human voice is like the most
Speaker 1: incredible because you hear people play great guitar part that
Speaker 1: could message I'm sure Mike Campbell got your heartstrings going
Speaker 1: many times before, or a great you know, keyboard part,
Speaker 1: or a great riff. But like, the human voice is
Speaker 1: the only thing where you can take melody and attach
Speaker 1: lyrics to it and evoke emotion in a different way.
Speaker 1: And like you're sitting there understanding you're you're guiding this
Speaker 1: person to get the vocal that's gonna be it's on
Speaker 1: record that everyone hears and is the emotion strong enough,
Speaker 1: And it's a very cathartic experience for me, like every time,
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm so lucky to work with such
Speaker 1: a great singer, especially like her, And I just had
Speaker 1: this moment where I've just felt like really blessed the
Speaker 1: other day when I was just listening to the vocal
Speaker 1: of a song that I think is so special and
Speaker 1: it comes to life. Is that your favorite part of
Speaker 1: producing when you do the vocal? No, But I think
Speaker 1: for me the most exciting part is when it's it
Speaker 1: goes from ordinary to unusual, like like in the moment
Speaker 1: when everybody's playing and it's pretty good, it's pretty good,
Speaker 1: and it's pretty good, and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: something happens, and it can be a tiny thing, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it shifts into this like you've
Speaker 1: never heard anything that's good before, and you don't know why.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't know why what. You don't know
Speaker 1: what changed between the take before and mistake, or between
Speaker 1: the last thirty seconds and this thirty seconds, but something
Speaker 1: aligns and that feeling of like it's like a harmonic
Speaker 1: convergence that happens, and that's I'm just waiting for that.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm wish And you know it when you
Speaker 1: hear it, you can't you can't miss it, you know.
Speaker 1: I got to hang with Nile Rogers recently, who's one
Speaker 1: of the great records, and he said something similar to
Speaker 1: what you just said, where his process. I loved to
Speaker 1: know everyone's process because everyone's different. He when he was
Speaker 1: recording with shek all the time, they'd record a bunch
Speaker 1: of takes and they would cut out the third course
Speaker 1: and move it to the first chorse because everyone was
Speaker 1: playing better by then. They knew the song and it
Speaker 1: was exciting and they got through the thing, and he
Speaker 1: would just take the third course and make it the
Speaker 1: first course. And like they would have to be playing
Speaker 1: as good as that for him to do it. But
Speaker 1: that was like a trick that like always worked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And if you think about like good times, that's like
Speaker 1: later in the song, but you hear it at the top,
Speaker 1: it's really weird. We would do the same sometimes, or
Speaker 1: sometimes we would repeat a section of the song just
Speaker 1: because this one particular version of the verse was never
Speaker 1: as good as that. So that became the first hand
Speaker 1: second verse just because just because so you're sitting in
Speaker 1: your dorm at NYU and you're you're making beats, right,
Speaker 1: You're what are you using an MPC or and you
Speaker 1: are listening to when the levee breaks, and you're like,
Speaker 1: these drums are out of control? How do you make
Speaker 1: the decision to be like, I'm gonna this is, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna loop this, I'm gonna show this to someone, and
Speaker 1: these should be the drums for you know, one of
Speaker 1: the best Beastie Boys songs ever. Like, what was that process?
Speaker 1: Do you remember? Or I would say I was in
Speaker 1: general always making beats, djaying, listening to records in djaying
Speaker 1: and looking for opportunities too. And there was no such
Speaker 1: thing as sampling then, so it was more like things
Speaker 1: to either scratch in or like a breakbeat where you
Speaker 1: could play, you know, on two turntables and play a
Speaker 1: little section back and forth. So it was just an
Speaker 1: interesting idea to use something like when Levy breaks as
Speaker 1: a breakbeat, because most people were making breakbeats out of
Speaker 1: more R and B records. Yeah, and when you when
Speaker 1: Paul's Boutique comes out and samplings changed forever. Are you like, fuck,
Speaker 1: how am I gonna make records now? No? I just
Speaker 1: thought it was the greatest thing I ever heard. I
Speaker 1: never thought I never I never thought about how it
Speaker 1: affected me. I just thought about, this is great music,
Speaker 1: and I want to listen to this. I remember when
Speaker 1: I first heard Paul's boutique, was before it came out,
Speaker 1: and I was with Chuck d and we were at
Speaker 1: the Mandrean Hotel in la and we listened to it
Speaker 1: together and both of us said, this is the future
Speaker 1: hip hop. This is the greatest thing we ever heard.
Speaker 1: Were so excited. We loved it. We loved it. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back with more from Andrew Watt after the break.
Speaker 1: We're back with more from Andrew Watt and Rick Rubin.
Speaker 1: What was I what's your first memory of music in
Speaker 1: your life? First thing you remember any experience in music?
Speaker 1: I went to go see George Benson when I was
Speaker 1: like six with my parents at like a Westbury music fair. Yes,
Speaker 1: that would be the place you'd see George Benson at
Speaker 1: the Westbury Music Fair. And I remember him. I didn't
Speaker 1: playing any instruments at this point, but I remember him
Speaker 1: singing and playing his guitar solos at the same time,
Speaker 1: and being like my mind was just like blown, like
Speaker 1: how this guy is not I mean now reflecting on
Speaker 1: it's like he could how many good, great guitar players
Speaker 1: have you seen just play the most melodic things you've
Speaker 1: ever seen, but he could sing it at the same time,
Speaker 1: and that two parts of his brain completely working together.
Speaker 1: Just that was like one of the first things that
Speaker 1: I ever remember what kind of music was playing in
Speaker 1: your house growing up? My dad played me The Beatles
Speaker 1: was the number one thing, but Sabbath and Zeppelin and
Speaker 1: The Who, and my mom was listening to Stevie Wonder
Speaker 1: and George Michael and Neil Young and just all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And my dad's final collection was like a huge thing
Speaker 1: for me. I remember finding like the All Things Must
Speaker 1: Pass album super young and playing that as like, you know,
Speaker 1: you go through the Beatles and then you get the
Speaker 1: Beatles spinoffs. That to me is the best of the
Speaker 1: Beatles spinoffs because he had those songs for so long
Speaker 1: and it was kind of holding him back. But yeah,
Speaker 1: all that stuff just listen to. And then my brother,
Speaker 1: who was the one that was like Alison Chain's Unplugged
Speaker 1: in Pearl Jam, Blood Sugar Sex five years, five years
Speaker 1: so I'm turning thirty on Tuesday. Actually Coagulations, Yeah, Libra
Speaker 1: Libra gang. Yeah, what was the first music that you
Speaker 1: felt like? Was your music as a as a kid?
Speaker 1: Not your older brothers music, not your parents music, but
Speaker 1: your music. So funny, man, it was like one of
Speaker 1: the things I want to talk to about. But like
Speaker 1: I went to Sam Goody and I remember being like
Speaker 1: eight years old, kind of nine years old, and my
Speaker 1: mom would just leave me in there and go and
Speaker 1: do stuff. And I was talking to the guy at
Speaker 1: the store. I was like, I want to buy these
Speaker 1: some CDs. I have money for three CDs, and he
Speaker 1: was showing me stuff and asking me about what I liked.
Speaker 1: And the three CDs he gave me were bloods Up
Speaker 1: in the One, Appetite for Destruction by Guns and Roses
Speaker 1: and Blood Sugar Sex Magic by the Red Chili Peppers,
Speaker 1: which that album affected me the most. Really, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was because at the time that's like a true melding
Speaker 1: of genres. Zeppelin is my favorite band ever, you know,
Speaker 1: and obviously Guns and Roses amazing and I both those
Speaker 1: albums are in my DNA for sure. But the Blood
Speaker 1: Sugar Sex Magic album was like I had to know
Speaker 1: every crevice of that and it was so cool to
Speaker 1: hear rap and rock and funk and all of those
Speaker 1: different things kind of coming together and it really just
Speaker 1: had a super profound effect on me. I have no idea. Yeah, nice, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then you know, being becoming so close with Chad
Speaker 1: kind of working with him and that's how we met.
Speaker 1: We did session together and then we became so close.
Speaker 1: And then obviously he was you know, gracious enough to
Speaker 1: bring me around the other guys and they've all become
Speaker 1: friends and are I know those are your that's your family.
Speaker 1: They're the most special group of people that you can imagine.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's this weird thing where you could
Speaker 1: on your idols become your friends and that's such a trip.
Speaker 1: You know. That's where I feel like the simulation is
Speaker 1: like a real thing. You know. I found myself in
Speaker 1: Egypt with them when they played at the Pyramids last year,
Speaker 1: and I'm like getting I'm so lucky to like not
Speaker 1: only go and watch them play, but they let me
Speaker 1: come on this amazing adventure of like riding camels and
Speaker 1: they shut down the Pyramids and I was like they're
Speaker 1: taking in that culture of like privately looking at these
Speaker 1: things that are older than time and that no one
Speaker 1: really knows how they got there. And I was just like,
Speaker 1: you know what, maybe this whole life thing is not
Speaker 1: really a real thing because you're not supposed to do this.
Speaker 1: You know, you're not supposed to like get these experiences.
Speaker 1: It's miraculous. I'm sure you had those moments. Absolutely, It's unbelievable. Happens.
Speaker 1: It happens all the time, and I still every day
Speaker 1: I can't believe when it happens, happened yesterday, happened, yes
Speaker 1: what happened yesterday? Just had a long conversation with Bruce
Speaker 1: Springsteen that was mind blowing and it was just a trip.
Speaker 1: Yeah real. I heard this awesome story of Jimmy was
Speaker 1: producing that album Born to Run, and he brought down
Speaker 1: like the mix mixes back to his dad's house in
Speaker 1: and he had him on cassette. It's like cassette at
Speaker 1: that time, and he went to sleep. He was like late.
Speaker 1: They worked on the mixes all night and he got
Speaker 1: up in the morning to like go get it and
Speaker 1: make sure it's still sounded good in the morning. Gives
Speaker 1: ears a break and the cassette was gone. He's like,
Speaker 1: where the fuck are these mixes? Like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: and freaking out calls his dad, and his dad's like
Speaker 1: on the construction site that he works on. He's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Jimmy, this is the best thing you've
Speaker 1: ever done. The guys on the site they love it.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. He's like, Dad, bring the mixes home. You
Speaker 1: don't understand. You gotta bring the mixes home. And he
Speaker 1: never told Bruce that story until like, really really recently.
Speaker 1: And but if you think about it, the working class
Speaker 1: guy on the construction site heard this stuff before anyone else.
Speaker 1: There's kind of nothing more that Bruce would have. I
Speaker 1: don't know Bruce at all, but I just know what
Speaker 1: I've heard, and I think he would probably really like
Speaker 1: that absolutely. So I just love that story. I love
Speaker 1: those stories behind the record. And then you know, I've
Speaker 1: I got the ultimate honor, which you've had a bunch
Speaker 1: of times of making an Aussie album last year, which
Speaker 1: you know, you asked me what the first thing my
Speaker 1: dad played me Sabbath and and like you've spent time
Speaker 1: with that guy was amazing. Is he not the greatest, kindest,
Speaker 1: super funny, the funniest person ever, you know. He told me.
Speaker 1: He told me a story like he went to hang
Speaker 1: out with you one night after he was drinking and
Speaker 1: he's like saying you he did, he did. I got
Speaker 1: an entire black Sabbath concert in my living room as
Speaker 1: the sun was coming up from from a high and drunk.
Speaker 1: Azzi was unbelievable. Did you put on the records and
Speaker 1: he's singing along? Yes? So I found out with him
Speaker 1: that if I start any of his songs, go automatically
Speaker 1: sing along. So for me, as like, I'm such a Sabbathan,
Speaker 1: I'll just like the other day, we're in the middle
Speaker 1: of writing. We're doing another album and I started playing
Speaker 1: sweet Leaf and he just sang the whole song. It's like,
Speaker 1: what else do you want out of life? Just listen
Speaker 1: to Azzi singing. He still loves his songs. He's been
Speaker 1: singing the same songs for fifty years and he can
Speaker 1: still do it. It's amazing. It's amazing for me, the
Speaker 1: coolest that, you know, working with him. I didn't want to.
Speaker 1: I didn't I would like, almost didn't want to do it.
Speaker 1: I made the song with him in post I had
Speaker 1: like the idea to put them together because Post loves
Speaker 1: Azzi so much. And I had taken Post to the
Speaker 1: Rainbow Bar and grill because he just like, where can
Speaker 1: I drink in la work and listen to rock And
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's actually the pace where you want to be.
Speaker 1: I brought him the Rainbow. Then he started. He was like,
Speaker 1: he's the new Lemmy over there, you know know what I mean,
Speaker 1: He's there every night, that's where he drinks. Probably not
Speaker 1: anymore with all this going on, but that's where he was,
Speaker 1: and he bought I wasn't there, but he bought an
Speaker 1: azzy photo off the wall there and he has the
Speaker 1: studio that he records in that's right down sunset from
Speaker 1: the Rainbow. So he's walking down sunset with the photo
Speaker 1: of Azzi a beer in his hand like hammered post malone,
Speaker 1: And that visual in my head made me, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: be like Post an Azzi have to do a song together.
Speaker 1: If he could have got a picture of him walking
Speaker 1: along with the Azzi photo, that would have been the
Speaker 1: perfect cover for the same, the best, the best ever.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, we did that whole song, which was
Speaker 1: so much fun for me. And then he wanted to
Speaker 1: make an album, and I don't want to make like
Speaker 1: a shitty Azzi album because his stuff is so good.
Speaker 1: Like so, you know, Duff and Chad played on the album,
Speaker 1: which you know both those guys as well, and they're
Speaker 1: amazing and really helped make it authentic. But the moment
Speaker 1: for me that it was real was like Azzi sang
Speaker 1: and then he doubled his voice. Yeah, and when he
Speaker 1: doubles his voice, it sounds like asion record. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: I've never experienced that before because usually you want like
Speaker 1: a double at least for me to be like as
Speaker 1: close to each other as possible, and with him, the
Speaker 1: more different it is, the cooler it is. And it
Speaker 1: makes one that's clearly out of tune automatically not be
Speaker 1: out of tune. It's like one plus one equals two.
Speaker 1: I've never experienced it before. Are you still listening to
Speaker 1: music all the time. I listened to music all the time,
Speaker 1: but my default listening is not music that I would
Speaker 1: ever work on. I probably listened to more classical and
Speaker 1: jazz now, just because I want a relief from you know,
Speaker 1: I spend so many hours in the recording studio and
Speaker 1: over so many years that my enjoyment. Listening tends to
Speaker 1: be a palette cleanser from what I'm working on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't find myself listening to a lot
Speaker 1: of music anymore. Like in the car, I love silence
Speaker 1: because I like podcasts. I listen to people talking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that too, interviews or lectures. I really like learning stuff.
Speaker 1: So you're hearing so much music and loud music all
Speaker 1: the time, and it's like almost like you want to
Speaker 1: save your ears to be able to Do you listen
Speaker 1: for fun or do you listen to see what's happening both.
Speaker 1: The other night, I was, you know, we all go
Speaker 1: through our personal journeys. I was feeling a bit sad,
Speaker 1: and I you know why, Do I know why I
Speaker 1: was feeling sad? Yeah, I know why I was feeling sad.
Speaker 1: But I was kind of going through a thing where
Speaker 1: I realized whatever, you know, you make decisions and then
Speaker 1: there's outcomes and you have to live with that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. So so I came home and I there's
Speaker 1: a package for me my house. Opened it up and
Speaker 1: Ozzie had sent me the fiftieth anniversary A Paranoid. The
Speaker 1: vinyl had just come out, and I opened it up,
Speaker 1: great packaging, they know what they're doing with that stuff.
Speaker 1: And in it were two live bootlegs concerts. One of
Speaker 1: them was from Zurich. So I popped it in on
Speaker 1: my turntable and I just sat on my floor and
Speaker 1: I just turned it up loud and I just listened
Speaker 1: to this Sabbath live show and it's like before Paranoid
Speaker 1: came out, and the words are different, but they're basically
Speaker 1: playing down Paranoid and it's like they're on fire. And
Speaker 1: I just couldn't stop smiling. It didn't matter what was
Speaker 1: going on. This music, it just affects me in such
Speaker 1: a way it's amazing. So listening to that vinyl was
Speaker 1: just like a really good It was the first time
Speaker 1: I like sat and listened to a record through all
Speaker 1: the way and they flipped it and just listen, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta go back and just do
Speaker 1: that more. It wasn't like the pressure of you saying,
Speaker 1: like you want to hear what's happening, you know. I
Speaker 1: listened every Friday, New Music Friday comes out on Spotify,
Speaker 1: and that's you know, they do their best to give
Speaker 1: you a bunch of songs that are coming out from
Speaker 1: artists that they you know, whoever is choosing that they
Speaker 1: whether they're relevant or it's just cool or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: I kind of skimmed through that. I think usually once
Speaker 1: a week or I get it later. What percentage of
Speaker 1: those things to end up liking? Very few? Because I
Speaker 1: don't know listen to old stuff when I when I
Speaker 1: do listen and listen to very old, very old music.
Speaker 1: But I just justin and just put out a new
Speaker 1: song with Benny Blanco that I thought was amazing and
Speaker 1: understated and really cool instead of overproduced and the opposite.
Speaker 1: I just heard that on Friday, which I thought was
Speaker 1: awesome and amazing. Yeah, I'm trying to think when the
Speaker 1: last time I. I don't really listen to that many.
Speaker 1: I'll listen for like a second, just like I just
Speaker 1: want to like see what's going on. It's almost like
Speaker 1: Spotify has become like of like it's like checking the stocks.
Speaker 1: It's really weird because that's the chart. It's chart. There's
Speaker 1: a chart on there. It's like there's Global Top fifty.
Speaker 1: You can fully see when your song where it is
Speaker 1: Global Top fifty and how far it's moving up now
Speaker 1: far it's moving down, And like people are listening to
Speaker 1: your music in real time and you're seeing how they
Speaker 1: like it. It's just it's strange. It's really strange. So
Speaker 1: of course I look at that, try not to when
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of making stuff. I try and
Speaker 1: when i'm you know, I'm working so hard on the
Speaker 1: music that I make and mixing it and mastering it
Speaker 1: that by the time I'm done with it, it's like
Speaker 1: for everyone else, I kind of them getting worn out
Speaker 1: in the process of mixing. Lately, I don't think. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've had songs, of course where the mix is catapulted
Speaker 1: the song and changed it. But you know, I have
Speaker 1: an engineer who I think is incredible named Paul Amalfa,
Speaker 1: who works with me on everything I do, and is
Speaker 1: roughs are getting so good and they're doing what I
Speaker 1: want to the record, I'm like, why am I now
Speaker 1: then going to sit with someone else who is amazing
Speaker 1: at what they do? So naturally, they have an ego
Speaker 1: about how they think stuff should be, and they've never
Speaker 1: heard my song. They don't know how what the words mean,
Speaker 1: or which words should be a little louder, or which
Speaker 1: parts I love the most. Because I've spend so much
Speaker 1: time on it, and then I got to go and
Speaker 1: spend another like two weeks doing this again with someone else,
Speaker 1: and I'm already burnt on the song because we worked
Speaker 1: on it for so long. I just find the process
Speaker 1: like now, just because we can get the roughs so
Speaker 1: close to be almost a little bit unnecessary. Sometimes do
Speaker 1: you run into that at all? Or well, I've definitely
Speaker 1: gotten to the point where we've got demos so good
Speaker 1: that no matter how much time we spend mixing it,
Speaker 1: it's not as good as the rough mix. And we
Speaker 1: end up going with the rough mix a lot more
Speaker 1: now than ever. Is that happening because of how good
Speaker 1: the technology is and how good your engineers are. I'll
Speaker 1: just say sometimes yes and sometimes Noah. And same is
Speaker 1: true with mastering, by the way, like usually now for
Speaker 1: a while now, I'll always have the mastering lab master
Speaker 1: it the way they imagine it, and then also send
Speaker 1: me a flat master, which all that all that is
Speaker 1: is there's no eq there's no compression. All they're doing
Speaker 1: is balancing the level between songs, so it doesn't get
Speaker 1: you know, if one mixes quieter than the next, they
Speaker 1: just get it so that they all flow into each
Speaker 1: other without level changes, but without doing anything to them.
Speaker 1: And I would say eight out of ten times we
Speaker 1: end up picking that over there because they leave your
Speaker 1: mix ALUs. They leave your mix alone, and you can
Speaker 1: get the mixes so loud now, right, that was the
Speaker 1: overall thing. I wanted to be loud. I wanted to
Speaker 1: be loud. Also, now you know you can change things,
Speaker 1: Like are there any albums that you've made where you're like,
Speaker 1: I want to remaster this. I never look back, I
Speaker 1: will say. The only thing I'll say is like, if
Speaker 1: it was mastered using old technology, you know, thirty years ago,
Speaker 1: we might try remastering it now to see if just
Speaker 1: the technology has gotten better to where it sounds better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, But also, what's the point If it's such
Speaker 1: a classic album that people love so much and have
Speaker 1: bought zillions of copies and it means something to them,
Speaker 1: why change it? Yeah, it's true. Is it for the
Speaker 1: love of just making it better? This could sound better
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, I would never think about remixing anything,
Speaker 1: or it's more just that. I'll give you an example,
Speaker 1: although this is an ample about a remix and it
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with me. I'm just a fan,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if you've heard the last year's
Speaker 1: release of the White album deluxe version remixed and remastered.
Speaker 1: It blew my mind. Now. It's probably my favorite album.
Speaker 1: Listened to it a million times in my life, and
Speaker 1: it only sounded better. It didn't sound different, but I
Speaker 1: felt like I could hear it in a way that
Speaker 1: was never able to hear it before. Like there, it
Speaker 1: had a clarity that was never there and a detail.
Speaker 1: And it's not like, well, I hear this other thing
Speaker 1: that I never heard before because it's louder. It never
Speaker 1: felt like shined. It just was clear, and I loved it.
Speaker 1: So that was the best example of somebody using technology
Speaker 1: to take something that couldn't be better and making it better.
Speaker 1: And they mixed it at Abbey Road, and they did
Speaker 1: it where it was made, and they did it the
Speaker 1: right way. And did George's son do that? Yeah? It's awesomes? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean those are those are those are the album.
Speaker 1: I always say that every person that I work with,
Speaker 1: if I'm working with an artist or a friend, anyone
Speaker 1: that's like, I want to play guitar, what should I do?
Speaker 1: The only thing to do if you want to learn
Speaker 1: to play guitar is or write songs. It's by a
Speaker 1: Beatles chord book. That is. If you sit with that
Speaker 1: book and you can play through every one of those songs,
Speaker 1: don't have to do it well, but you can finger
Speaker 1: though every one of those chords and every one of
Speaker 1: those songs, you will know everything you need to know
Speaker 1: about writing a song, because that's just it. I mean.
Speaker 1: And they were like badly classically trained musicians, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like they all started on classical music
Speaker 1: at Blackbird is like a flip of an old classical song.
Speaker 1: They were just like that was so important to them,
Speaker 1: you know, and in their upbringing of music. And because
Speaker 1: of that, the chords are so detailed, but they put
Speaker 1: them into pops. So I mean, I think that's just
Speaker 1: like for me, I'm taking chords and playing it and
Speaker 1: then making a buyner after. It's all Beatles all the
Speaker 1: time forever. Well, thank you for sharing stories, Thank you
Speaker 1: for talking to me. I don't even know really why
Speaker 1: I'm here. I just want to hang out with you.
Speaker 1: Who will continue now on a personal note, cool, thank
Speaker 1: you thanks to Andrew Watt for sharing some amazing stories
Speaker 1: with us. Look forward to hearing more music from him
Speaker 1: in the future. You can hear a playlist of some
Speaker 1: of our favorite Andrew Watt records at broken record podcast
Speaker 1: dot com, and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube
Speaker 1: channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast. There
Speaker 1: you can find excited cuts of new and old episodes.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,
Speaker 1: Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler and his executive produced by Miolabelle.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industry and if
Speaker 1: you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. Our theme mus expect
Speaker 1: any beats. I'm justin Richmond Pace