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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Just a quick note here, you can listen to

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Speaker 1: all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist,

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Speaker 1: which you can find a link to in the show

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Speaker 1: notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced

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Speaker 1: in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode. It's hard to believe Andrew Watt is

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Speaker 1: only thirty years old. Just consider the artists he's worked

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Speaker 1: with over the last five years. Ozzy Osbourne, Miley Cyrus,

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Speaker 1: Sam Smith, Justin Bieber. He's quietly become one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest producers in the industry, leading to a nomination of

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Speaker 1: the upcoming Grammys for Producer of the Year. But before

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Speaker 1: Watt started his production journey five years ago, he was

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Speaker 1: a songwriter and guitar player. This song, Ghost in My

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Speaker 1: Head is from a twenty fifteen EP he released, and

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Speaker 1: it perfectly captures why he's been able to straddle the

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Speaker 1: usually firm line between hard rock and pop music. It's

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Speaker 1: something he's helped Post Malone do over the last few years,

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Speaker 1: and also did from Miley Cyrus on her new album

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Speaker 1: Plastic Hearts. In this episode, Andrew Watt talks to Rick

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Speaker 1: Rubin about getting to start in music and turning with

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Speaker 1: the roots, his journey did becoming a top tier music producer,

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Speaker 1: and about a frightening experience with COVID he had in

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Speaker 1: the early days of the pandemic. This is broken record

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Speaker 1: liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's

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Speaker 1: Rick Rubin's conversation with Andrew Watt. Let's start with COVID.

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Speaker 1: When did you realize you had it? I was working

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Speaker 1: with an artist, and literally, canceling is not something that

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Speaker 1: I do ever, because people's time, as you know, right,

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Speaker 1: that's the most important thing. Showing up somewhere and being there,

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Speaker 1: especially for someone that wants to create with you, It's

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Speaker 1: such a blessing to be able to do in the beginning.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not a canceller. And I just kind of

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Speaker 1: woke up and I was feeling so just fluey and

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Speaker 1: not good where I was just like, if I go

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Speaker 1: to the studio, I'm gonna maybe get people sick. So

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Speaker 1: let me just figure out what's happening. This is March fifth,

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Speaker 1: and whenever I would get sick before, which thankfully was

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Speaker 1: not that much, you start feeling like kind of dream

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Speaker 1: like where you're like, okay, something's in me. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of making me not like spaced out totally. I can't

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Speaker 1: connect thoughts the right way and everything. So I had

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Speaker 1: a doctor come and see me. Did a flu test,

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Speaker 1: You're negative? And I'm like, in March were people talking

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Speaker 1: about coronavirus? Yet just like it's happening in the world,

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Speaker 1: there's no cases in lady. You didn't know anyone who

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Speaker 1: had it? Nope. But I said to this doctor that

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Speaker 1: was there, I was like, do I have corona? Everyone's

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Speaker 1: having it. I have the symptoms. I'm like, my throat's

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Speaker 1: hurting me, I have dry cough and all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's like, there's no way you have corona. It's not

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Speaker 1: here in America. Yet they're containing it's containing. It's impossible.

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Speaker 1: You have the flu. Do a flu test negative, do

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Speaker 1: another one negative, Take this uh Tama flu, Take these

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Speaker 1: steroids for the swelling, and and you know, take advil

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Speaker 1: all And so I do everything he says, and taking

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Speaker 1: it and taking it. I'm not getting better. So I'm like, dude,

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Speaker 1: I have corona. How long How long was it before

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Speaker 1: the next step? Five days? Right, I'm so five days

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Speaker 1: You're doing everything. The doctor said, yes, bad flu, taking

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Speaker 1: it not getting better, getting better, getting worse, or staying

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Speaker 1: the same. Um, just like not getting better. Whereas usually

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Speaker 1: like a thing would be whatever, so we passed it.

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Speaker 1: Normally would pass quickly. This day like seven days in

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Speaker 1: around like March twelve, where I'm like, all right, this

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Speaker 1: Tama flu worked and I'm kind of like I feel

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Speaker 1: that I'm coming on the other side, right, So call everyone,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm ready to go back to work. I'm

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Speaker 1: blah blah. But people are talking about Corona. In this time.

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Speaker 1: I find out that Lucy and Grange is like really sick, right,

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Speaker 1: and there's this party that happened. You heard about this

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Speaker 1: the Palm Springs for his birthday, and a couple of

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Speaker 1: people from London were there and they're getting sick. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, maybe I got it. And then I'm better.

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Speaker 1: Two days after, I wake up in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the night and I'm like hallucinating, you know. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like death. I can't breathe this. I'm like, whoa,

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Speaker 1: what's happening? So I called this is worse than it was, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: worse than it was. And I call this doctor. I'm

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Speaker 1: like this guy was seeing I'm like I gotta get

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Speaker 1: to this blah blah, comes over, gives me another flud

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Speaker 1: Testa's like, you don't have corona, people don't have it.

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Speaker 1: You're like, over and over, take the advill I finally,

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Speaker 1: you know, friend of mine got me a different doctor

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Speaker 1: who was like a really you know, I guess not

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Speaker 1: that this other doctor wasn't a good doctor trying to

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Speaker 1: do his best, but no one knows anything at this point, right,

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Speaker 1: So he gets me this other doctor and he's like,

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Speaker 1: you can't breathe. You're you know, oxygen's lower. We're going

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Speaker 1: to the hospital. So go to the hospital. Which hospital

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Speaker 1: to go to? I went to UCLA. I'm sitting there.

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Speaker 1: I literally can't breathe. It's like a weird feeling. I'm

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Speaker 1: twenty nine years old and terrible scary, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what's going on. But I'm like, have you ever

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Speaker 1: been in the hospital before. I had been in the

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Speaker 1: hospital before, but only for like simple things, never like

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Speaker 1: you know, you ever stay in the hospital before, No

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Speaker 1: pendix out, that kind of stuff, you know, tonsils, hernia,

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Speaker 1: so um, you know, I'm there And finally they're like

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Speaker 1: they're giving me a flu test. I'm negative. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: can you test me for corona? This other great nice

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Speaker 1: doctor comes with me to the hospital. He's like there,

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Speaker 1: he's like, test this guy for corona. No one can

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Speaker 1: get tests, no one can do anything. So I'm there

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Speaker 1: at the hospital. Finally they take me to get a

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Speaker 1: chest x ray. They won't test me for anything. Chest

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Speaker 1: X ray. My chest X ray comes back with pneumonia. Right,

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Speaker 1: they still will not test me for corona. Now is

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Speaker 1: everyone around you, all the doctors, everything, We're in masks

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Speaker 1: and has matsuits like crazy, but they won't test you.

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Speaker 1: Even though they will not test me. No matter what

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Speaker 1: I'm doing, I'm texting my manager help me. I need

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Speaker 1: to get tested. I don't feel right like I'm at

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Speaker 1: this point where I'm like desperate. I never had that

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Speaker 1: feeling before of feeling desperate. You know, I'm lucky, I'm blessed.

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Speaker 1: I make music. I can't believe it's my job to

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Speaker 1: make music and I can kind of do what I want.

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Speaker 1: I'm desperate sitting here in this hospital and they will

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Speaker 1: not test me even though they know I have pneumonia.

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Speaker 1: So they're like, sorry, CDC rules, we can't do it.

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Speaker 1: We're only testing old people because they're gonna die. You're young,

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Speaker 1: You're not gonna die even if you have it. You

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Speaker 1: just need to go home. I wait hours and hours

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Speaker 1: and hours for this doctor to come in, and that's

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Speaker 1: what they tell me. Right. So the other doctor that's

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Speaker 1: there is just like with me. He's like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to my office right now. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: get a flu test. I'm going to test you for

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Speaker 1: this thing, and I'm going to write on the thing

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Speaker 1: this person I'm almost positive he has corona. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: send it to Quest Diagnostics and I'm going to see

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Speaker 1: what's going on. So he too give me a flu test,

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Speaker 1: but wrote I think this person is corona, left it

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Speaker 1: on their doorstep, and they tested it for corona. That's

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Speaker 1: how you found out, and that's how I found out

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Speaker 1: I was positive for corona. Wow. And you know, all

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Speaker 1: the people trying to help me and the people there,

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Speaker 1: but it's not their fault. They're following regulations by the government.

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Speaker 1: That's who's fault. We all know who I You know,

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Speaker 1: I could say it was fault. It is to me,

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Speaker 1: and you know they're just not handling it the right way.

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Speaker 1: And it's so early. Also, now that you have this,

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Speaker 1: no one really knows what to do if you do

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Speaker 1: have it anyway, there's no there's no treatments, no one

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Speaker 1: knows nothing. So all we can do is read and

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Speaker 1: do this stuff. And so I was in bed for

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Speaker 1: thirty five days. Wow, how long we in the hospital for.

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Speaker 1: Let me go. They're like, they didn't even I didn't

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Speaker 1: even get my results that night. They're like, go home

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Speaker 1: if you have it, just don't see anyone. Like they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't test me, did nothing for me. They're like, you

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Speaker 1: have pneumonia. You have pneumonia, just rest yea and go home.

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Speaker 1: So you stay in bed for you stay home for

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Speaker 1: thirty five days. I'm home in bed and I'm just

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Speaker 1: feeling awful, hallucinating. What type of therapeutics are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I had a fever for sixteen days, which was you

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Speaker 1: go crazy? How high did it go? Up? One oh

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Speaker 1: three was the worst, and then it was kind of down. Um,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's really hard for me. I've played guitar,

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Speaker 1: you're not so how we met. I came and played

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Speaker 1: guitar here. We'll talk about that after. But I played

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Speaker 1: guitar every day for my whole life, and I'm suddenly

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Speaker 1: not wanting to play guitar because it's I don't want

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Speaker 1: to play in this negative place, in this mindset. And then,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think just after that and dealing with

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Speaker 1: post COVID stuff was tricky, but I got back and

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Speaker 1: I think I'm making the best music in my life now.

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Speaker 1: So and since you've recovered, have you had any bad

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Speaker 1: days or has it been pretty consistently good. I haven't

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Speaker 1: had knock on wood a bad day in a really

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Speaker 1: long time. But you know, a couple of months ago,

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Speaker 1: if I was doing kind of strenuous exercise or really

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Speaker 1: pushing myself, I would find myself kind of in like

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Speaker 1: a mental fog. And that was hard. But what it

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Speaker 1: made me do was, you know, and I'm sure I

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Speaker 1: know from talking to you before, but I was working.

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Speaker 1: I was the producer that was working twenty four hours

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Speaker 1: a day, working the day with someone working the night

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Speaker 1: with someone else, my studios, in my house, working on stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's made me change my hours and work kind of

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Speaker 1: more in a in a more of a scheduled thing.

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Speaker 1: If creativity strikes at a different time, then I'll deal

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Speaker 1: with that or use it as a decision. But it's

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Speaker 1: not a necessity, and so doing that has kind of

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Speaker 1: made me take better care of yourself, take better care

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Speaker 1: of myself. And if and if I want to exercise,

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Speaker 1: I'll do it super early in the morning where it

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Speaker 1: doesn't affect my day and I'm not going one thing

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Speaker 1: into the other or at nighttime, and just kind of

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Speaker 1: finding different ways. I'm not in the gym pounding weights,

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Speaker 1: but I never really liked doing that anyway, you know, surfing,

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Speaker 1: spending time on the water, paddling, doing yoga, walkding, doing

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Speaker 1: really long walk stuff like that. It's all I had

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Speaker 1: to adjust like that, and doing those adjustments was not

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Speaker 1: really something that affect were in New York did you

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Speaker 1: grow up? I grew up in Great Nack, originally in

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Speaker 1: Long Island, and then funny, I went to NYU and

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Speaker 1: lived in Weinstein dorms, just like someone else I know

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Speaker 1: a Long Island that went to New York in New

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Speaker 1: York City to try and make music. I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to go to college. I wanted to play gigs and

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Speaker 1: play and in bars. But like I got through with

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Speaker 1: my parents of like, okay, if you get I got

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Speaker 1: into NYU, so you gotta go went to Weinstein dorms,

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Speaker 1: was making music and out of my dorm room until

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Speaker 1: I dropped out. And how was that? What was your first,

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Speaker 1: um professional experience in music? My first when I like

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Speaker 1: really really kind of professional thing besides just making records

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Speaker 1: on my own at my house and everything was. I

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Speaker 1: got to NYU and the roots had just started there,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Fallon thing and they were doing these amazing jams

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Speaker 1: at the high Line Ballroom in New York because they

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Speaker 1: were there and they were, you know, wanted to do it.

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Speaker 1: And I remember I waited outside after the show for

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Speaker 1: a long time to talk to quest Love. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk to him. I was so he's not only

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Speaker 1: one of the costs, but how knowledgeable is that guy?

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Speaker 1: Just believable on everything? And I was a big you know,

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Speaker 1: I loved his website, Okay player that reviewed music. I

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Speaker 1: would find a lot of music on there is it

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Speaker 1: just always searching and he's such an audio file you know.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, so I talked to him and I was like, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: I want a jam. I want to jam with you guys.

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Speaker 1: Because I would go to jams all the time. I

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Speaker 1: would go to blues jams and bring my guitar and

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Speaker 1: that's really how I like, I learned to play with

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Speaker 1: other people as I had bands, but they my band sucked,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like I went to

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Speaker 1: these jams at the cutting Room and the Bitter End

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Speaker 1: and the bottom Line and all these places and would

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Speaker 1: just be there with my guitar and I'd get up

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Speaker 1: and we'd play little wing for no one practiced with

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Speaker 1: each other before or superstition, and I'd to learn how

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Speaker 1: to catch horn lines and kind of that was like

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Speaker 1: really important to me. I would steal a car and

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Speaker 1: drive out to Manhattan from Great Neck and do that

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Speaker 1: all the time. So I asked quest of if I

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Speaker 1: could jam with him, and he was like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: talked to this girl she does the jams. He was

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Speaker 1: just kind of like really nice and cool. So I

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Speaker 1: got this woman's number. Their name was Ginny, and I

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Speaker 1: called her probably a thousand times and of seventeen at

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Speaker 1: this time, and emailed her and she would not answer me.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, Okay, the jam, it's Thursday. It's

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Speaker 1: next Thursday. And I didn't hear am I jamming? Am

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Speaker 1: I not? So I bring my guitar and I go

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Speaker 1: at sound check time. I'm like I'm gonna just sneak

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Speaker 1: into this place and go because quest Love will see me.

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Speaker 1: And he said, oh yeah, you can jam. And I

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Speaker 1: had a big heart, you know, I follow my heart.

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Speaker 1: Of course he's gonna let me do that, right, So

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Speaker 1: I sneak in. I might come here for the gig

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Speaker 1: I'm playing tonight, Sir. Suddenly come right, and people are

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Speaker 1: coming at all and quest Love's not there, but that

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Speaker 1: woman Ginny is there and she sees me and she's

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Speaker 1: just her face goes white, right, and so they're like,

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Speaker 1: give me a wrist band. And I'm there and I'm

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Speaker 1: waiting by the side of the stage with guitar. All

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Speaker 1: these people come. I see Bilal play for the first

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Speaker 1: time and he does like a whole lot of love it.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know who Bilal was, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, this guy's incredible, and watching

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Speaker 1: Captain Kirk play guitar, who's amazing musician. And I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: there and I don't get asked the jam obviously, but

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Speaker 1: I see this woman Jinny freaking out the whole time.

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Speaker 1: She can't handle what's going on with the amount of

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Speaker 1: people that are there and the guys need drinks and

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Speaker 1: want to smoke weed, and she's just too much for

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Speaker 1: her to handle. And so my brain, I'm in the

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Speaker 1: music business program at NYU, my brain goes, I need

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Speaker 1: an internship. Maybe this could be my internship. So I

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Speaker 1: was like, hey, you know, I know I didn't get

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Speaker 1: the jam and stuff like that, but like you seem

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Speaker 1: like you need an intern, like you're you have too

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Speaker 1: much going on. She was like, I actually do need

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Speaker 1: an intern. Here send your resume. So send my resume.

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Speaker 1: I get a whole thing, and I get the job

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Speaker 1: of being this girl's intern and working at Okay Player

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Speaker 1: during the week and helping with the jam every week.

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Speaker 1: So I'm backstage every time. I bring my guitar every

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Speaker 1: single time, and I never get asked to play, and

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Speaker 1: I'm annoying little kid. But I learned how to roll

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Speaker 1: blunt from Black Thought and rolling his blunts before it

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Speaker 1: was smoking, get drinks for people, and I'm around all

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Speaker 1: these amazing musicians, like the best musicians, and and you know,

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Speaker 1: I get to know James Poyser really well, and it

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Speaker 1: gets you know, Black Thought and Kirk and Quest Love

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Speaker 1: and all the people around in their crew, and you know,

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Speaker 1: guys from the Fuji's Come and Erica Bad Dude Come,

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Speaker 1: and and and Balal and all those people, and I'm

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Speaker 1: and I'm just meeting all these people, and I'm open

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Speaker 1: to a different kind of music than I was listening

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Speaker 1: to them, the rock and roll that I was raised on.

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Speaker 1: And this one night happens where um Kirk, his father

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Speaker 1: was really sick and couldn't make the gig, and so

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Speaker 1: quest looks like, all right, you got your guitar, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't have my guitar that so I run back

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Speaker 1: to at Weinstein Dorms, get my guitar, come back and

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Speaker 1: I got to play that night, and I did great.

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Speaker 1: It was one of those moments where I did great.

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Speaker 1: You know, I understood the space and I had been

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Speaker 1: watching how they did their stuff every night and did great.

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Speaker 1: And then they let me jam a bum there and

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Speaker 1: would let me play a bunch of times, and I

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Speaker 1: met amazing artists and got kind of my first gigs

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Speaker 1: playing for artists, not doing my own thing from there,

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Speaker 1: and that's kind of how it started. What was your

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Speaker 1: first studio gig? My first studio gig, I was making

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Speaker 1: my own records, and then the first time I produced

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Speaker 1: I was working with this kid, Jared Evan. He was

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Speaker 1: signed to Interscope, and I was playing guitar for him

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Speaker 1: kind of throw all that stuff, and then he would

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Speaker 1: always bring me around with him and want me to

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Speaker 1: play guitar. And his guy that was producing him was

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Douglas, one of the greats, and he kind of

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Speaker 1: taught me how to play guitar and the studio and

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Speaker 1: double track myself and get parts and work through stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I would play for a long time and then

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Speaker 1: he chopped parts out so that I kind of cut

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Speaker 1: my teeth that way and then used it to make

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Speaker 1: my own records. And then as I was going on

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Speaker 1: tour with people, I was on tour with an artist

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Speaker 1: named Cody Simpson and Justin and then they wanted me

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Speaker 1: to make their records and I just would kind of

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Speaker 1: did that and moved out to LA and made that

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Speaker 1: one album with Glenn and in Nashville on tape, which

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Speaker 1: was a great experience too. I think everyone should make

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Speaker 1: an album on tape at some point, just wants to

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Speaker 1: see what that process is like. It's a fuck ton

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Speaker 1: harder and doesn't really make that much of a difference

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Speaker 1: for everyone that says it does. It really doesn't. But

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Speaker 1: you know, drums sound great on tape, and I'm so

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Speaker 1: happy I had the experience. Now we have all the

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Speaker 1: plugins that make it sound like tape anyway, So why

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Speaker 1: are you going to do that to yourself? Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I came out here and I had this song that

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Speaker 1: I wrote with a friend of mine named Ali tem Posey,

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Speaker 1: who's still my number one collaborator until today. We're working

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Speaker 1: together on Monday again. We've been working together for nine

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Speaker 1: years NonStop, never had an argument. And we wrote the

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Speaker 1: song called let Me Love You, which was on a

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Speaker 1: guitar and it was a folk song, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of got passed around the industry in that way. Everyone

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Speaker 1: we've heard this song. And I played it for Justin

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Speaker 1: because he was a good friend of mine and he

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Speaker 1: really wanted the song, and then everyone else somehow started

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Speaker 1: cutting the song. I didn't understand how people were cutting

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Speaker 1: my song without asking me or talking to me. It

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Speaker 1: felt wrong. It was like, and I told Justin he

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Speaker 1: could do the song already. So I kind of had

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Speaker 1: to like get involved with that part of the industry,

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Speaker 1: which I never did before. I'd start talking to these

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Speaker 1: record label guys and these managers and these different people

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Speaker 1: and kind of be like no, I learned the power

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Speaker 1: of no, kind of the first time, which you know

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Speaker 1: you have to say and be like, hey, no, this

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Speaker 1: is not actually happening. I don't care what you want

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Speaker 1: to pay or what like. I promised this song to

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Speaker 1: someone else and so through a long story, justin ended

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Speaker 1: up singing the song. And that was my first like

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Speaker 1: big hit song and it was such a cool experience

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Speaker 1: to I didn't know that it was going to be that.

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Speaker 1: I just everyone wanted the song for a reason and

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Speaker 1: it was amazing. So like the first time I went

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Speaker 1: to one of his shows and I saw him play

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Speaker 1: that song and then everyone in the crowd was singing,

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Speaker 1: held the mic out and it was words I wrote about,

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Speaker 1: like hurt and pain I had, but to them it

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Speaker 1: was the happiest thing ever. And it was just like

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Speaker 1: in a surreal, amazing experience. And I think it's when

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Speaker 1: you see that happened, you want to do that again

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Speaker 1: and again and again. And what was the next one?

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Speaker 1: The next one after that was a Selena Gomez song

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Speaker 1: that she did with Kigo, which was another song that

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Speaker 1: was on the guitar. It's called it ain't me. Did

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Speaker 1: you write it for her? You just wrote it and

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Speaker 1: then she heard it. I just wrote it and played

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Speaker 1: it for her because we were friendly, and she loved

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Speaker 1: it and cut it kind of instantly. So many of

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Speaker 1: my songs that you know became big songs have these

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Speaker 1: insane long stories of me flying to Japan for twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours and doing all this stuff that I had

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Speaker 1: to do to get the record across the finish line,

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Speaker 1: which I'm sure you have crazy getting the Getting the

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Speaker 1: song sometimes is the easiest part, and getting the artist

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Speaker 1: to actually do the song is really hard. Sometimes it

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, but it is. That was the easiest

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Speaker 1: song I ever had, that one. She sang the song

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Speaker 1: and made her tweaks to it, and she sounded amazing

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Speaker 1: on it, and I did the production with I Go,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of just came out two months later,

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Speaker 1: and so that one was was was awesome. We'll be

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Speaker 1: right back with more from Andrew Watt after the break.

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Speaker 1: We're back with more from Andrew Watt and Rick Rubin

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Speaker 1: talking about their mutual friend drummer of the Red Hot

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Speaker 1: Chili Peppers, Chad Smith. What was the first session you

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Speaker 1: ever played on with Chad Chad came to play on

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Speaker 1: I was when I was signed to Republic Records as

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Speaker 1: a rock artist and kind of doing that. He came

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Speaker 1: and played on one of my a couple of my songs.

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Speaker 1: I had met him. I was in that band with

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Speaker 1: Glenn Hughes and Jason Bonham back in the day, and

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Speaker 1: I met Chad through that and we just kind of

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Speaker 1: became tight. And as you know, Chad loves music more

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Speaker 1: than literally anything in the world. And we'll actually play

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Speaker 1: on anything and it'll be great, and it will be

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Speaker 1: amazing and in any style. And it's so funny. Chad's

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Speaker 1: kid is just permanently set up at my house, old

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Speaker 1: gretch kid he has, and he's like the house drummer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he plays on everything that we do. So

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Speaker 1: we did that and we just kind of became really close.

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Speaker 1: And that Blood Sugar album was like my DNA as

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Speaker 1: a musician when I was learning how to play all

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Speaker 1: these different instruments and the kids that I was playing

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Speaker 1: with didn't want to play as much as to me,

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Speaker 1: So I just learned everyone's instrument and I learned how

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Speaker 1: to play that in that album kind of on every instrument.

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Speaker 1: So first time I sat down to play with Chad.

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Speaker 1: My instincts were kind of similar to his because that's

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Speaker 1: where my DNA was kind of playing. And even now

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Speaker 1: when when we're making an Ausie album or something, he

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Speaker 1: does a fill and I'm playing a lick, it's a same.

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Speaker 1: It's weird we have. We have really similar instincts, which

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Speaker 1: is so cool. He told me another amazing story. I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm breaking him out because kind of I want to

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Speaker 1: know your answers to this kind of stuff. You know,

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00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: we're talking I think like a year and a half ago,

427
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: just about demos of things, and I don't remember how

428
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: exactly it came up, but he played me the demo

429
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: of Californiacation and the music under that song is completely

430
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: different music. It's like, couldn't be anymore any more different,

431
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: But the top line is the same, exactly the same,

432
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: the same words, the same spacing, the same amount of

433
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: verse to the chorus line. And he was like, you know,

434
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 1: this music was not right. It wasn't you know, not

435
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: that it wasn't that it was good or bad. It

436
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: just wasn't right and it wasn't working. But you pushed

437
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: them really hard to like go and make different music

438
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: for this amazing top line and then it's like, I

439
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 1: think it's one of their biggest songs. How does that

440
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: process work for you? I honestly don't remember that happening.

441
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: I believe it did happen, but I don't think that

442
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,719
Speaker 1: it was my idea. I have a feeling as I

443
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: remember it, and again I don't remember. Brit Well, we

444
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: had the song and then John came in one day

445
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 1: and he said, I think I have a different way

446
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: to play the song that's better because the way it

447
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: typically works is the band works on music and then

448
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: Anthony gets inspired by the music he hears, and then

449
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 1: he writes the melody and then the words, and he

450
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: had gone through that phase, wrote the melody in the

451
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: words to the music the existing music, and then John

452
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: heard the melody in the words and said, hmm, I

453
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: think there's better music, and then he as I remember it,

454
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: John just had the idea to present a different version

455
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: and we all liked it better. Yeah. I mean, I

456
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: think that's the only time that particular thing happened with them.

457
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: It's amazing to not to a lot of people would

458
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: just be like, all right, this one's not working. Like

459
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 1: an A becomes a C and just just leave it,

460
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: throw it. How many great songs are there that you have,

461
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, like that, but to like work something to

462
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: the bone or repurpose it like that, and then it's

463
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: becomes the comes the album. Always we would always try

464
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: to consider every possibility to make every song as good

465
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: as it could be. That takes patience. Absolutely, That's the

466
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: whole job really is sitting and waiting and going through

467
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: and not making trying options, never thinking you know how

468
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: it's supposed to go. If you think you know how

469
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: it's supposed to go, it'll only be as good as

470
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: you can imagine, Whereas when you watch it happen, you're

471
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: surprised and blown away by how much better it can

472
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: be than what you originally imagine. Yeah, and people get

473
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: frustrated in that process sometimes, and that's a balancing act

474
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: as well. Right, somebody was like, no, I like it

475
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: like someone that's unwilling, and I that one of the

476
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: great Rick advice sessions I had with you was I

477
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: had an artist that was unwilling to do what I

478
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: really really felt strongly was like amazing, And you told

479
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: me you can push so far, but at the end

480
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: of the day, you got to let the artist that's

481
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: earned their right make the decision, you know, So get

482
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: to that crossroad sometimes where if they didn't want to

483
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: change that song, it would have just been what it

484
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: but what it was. Yeah, But hopefully then there's a

485
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: situation where someone does listen and does accept the change

486
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: and it's positive. Yeah, and they're also can't None of

487
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: us are rite all the time either, totally. You know,

488
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: it's like we don't know. We think, we have our opinion,

489
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: we share our opinion, and then we see you know,

490
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: I passed on working with Guns n' Roses, I passed

491
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: on working with Jane's Addiction. You know, I passed on

492
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: working with a lot of people because I just when

493
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: I saw it, I didn't hear it at first. Yeah,

494
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: And maybe that's what's supposed to happen, because had I

495
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: made Appetite for Destruction, it might have been a very

496
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: different album, and maybe it wouldn't have been as good,

497
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it wouldn't have been what it needed

498
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: to be. So who knows, you know, who knows. There's

499
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 1: so much about the process that's unknown, and we just

500
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: have to ride it and be open to the possibility

501
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: of it being as good as it could be, and

502
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: would I try to sing jest with the artist I

503
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: work with is if we don't both love it at

504
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: the end, then it's not as good as it could be.

505
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: So in both cases, so if you feel strongly about

506
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: it and the artist doesn't like it, that means it's

507
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: not there yet. And if they like a different version

508
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: and you don't like it yet, it's still not done.

509
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: It means there's you haven't really cracked the code. Because

510
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: when you really cracked the code, it's obvious to everyone.

511
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: You couldn't imagine it any other way. Yeah, this is it,

512
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: this is the record. Yeah. So it's just the patience

513
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: of going through that process. It's amazing. Yeah. I had

514
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: an experience the other day. I won't mention the name

515
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: of the artist, but with a producer and an artist

516
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: and they asked my opinion. I gave my opinion, and

517
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: the producer got really defensive and it's like, oh, you know,

518
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: I really believe in this direction that we're going. It's like, okay,

519
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: it's like it's fine. I'm just telling you how it

520
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: strikes me. And at least experiment with the suggestion and

521
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: see if anything good comes from it. You never know.

522
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: Sometimes does sometimes doesn't. Yeah, all you can do is

523
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: share your taste. Yeah, it's it's all taste, and there's

524
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: no right or wrong taste. You know, everyone has their own.

525
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: How do you like working with other producers? Like being involved?

526
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: Kind of like that. It's fine. I'm not attached to anything,

527
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: so I can. I'm very comfortable sharing what I like

528
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: and what I don't. Um. I'll give any suggestions of

529
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: possible solutions, but I'm also open to hearing any possible

530
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: solutions and sharing what I think works best. UM. A

531
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: lot of people also, you know, you have you have

532
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: a myth behind you, which is so cool and awesome.

533
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: Nothing cooler than that. UM. And you know, I just

534
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: wanted to share my experience. I got to work with

535
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: you once in the studio and we were you were

536
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: making a Justin Bieber album, UM, which that stuff was

537
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,479
Speaker 1: killing and I'd love to hear it one day if

538
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: it's still this anywhere on a drive somewhere incredible And

539
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, So I got a phone call

540
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: from Justin um And who who i'd been playing with

541
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: him was on tour with for a while, and he

542
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: was just like, hey, Andy, what are you doing? Can

543
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: you come down to the studio. I'm making this I'm

544
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: making this album. I want you to play guitar. And

545
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, of course, you know that's awesome.

546
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: Like where are you doing And he's like, oh, I'm

547
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: making it with Rick Rubin at Changer Law and I

548
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: was like, what you know. I just got in the

549
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: uber came all the way out. I was like, let's go,

550
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: let's go, let's go, and I and I got to

551
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: I went into that room that we're looking at right there,

552
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: and um, Chris Dave was on drums, who's no one

553
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: better than him? And these other a bunch of other

554
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: amazing musicians, great bass player, great keyboard player. Um, and

555
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: I was the worst musician in the room by far,

556
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: which you know, it's my first time in front of you.

557
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: Justin's put went out on alone. He's like, let me

558
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: bring my guy. You know, I don't know you. I

559
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: know there was another guitar player on the session. I

560
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: don't know what happened to him, But for whatever reason,

561
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: I got brought out there and I got thrown into

562
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,239
Speaker 1: the fire. And you had two choices. You either you know,

563
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,239
Speaker 1: suck and can't do the job, where you try and

564
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: rise and that was like such a challenge as a

565
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 1: musician for me in the best way, and you did

566
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: the coolest thing, which I do constantly as I'm making

567
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: music now. Is kind of like I think you kind

568
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: of I think if I look back on it, the

569
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: reason why I was there is because, like I got

570
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: like Todd how to produce fire. You in that moment

571
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: where you were playing us all this amazing music, You're

572
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: almost like djaying for us. You're playing us because I

573
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: remember you wanted to from what I remember, make stuff

574
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: with Justin. That was like he kept saying, I want

575
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: to make my thriller. I want to make my thriller, right,

576
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: Like that's what he was saying in that time. And

577
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: so you're playing us all this amazing music, you know,

578
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: Hall of Notes and Cheek and other Nile produce stuff

579
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 1: and some Michael stuff and all different, all different things,

580
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: and you told us as a band, You're like, okay,

581
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: learn this, play along to this. So we had like

582
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: about five or ten minutes to learn what we're hearing.

583
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: And I'm like the keyboard players right there, I'm like,

584
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: what's the course, what's the course? What's the course? Like

585
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: I'm just like I'm holding on but like trying to

586
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: fit in. And we learned the song and then you said, okay,

587
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: now played it in a different key. So now we

588
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: start playing in a different key. And then you say, okay,

589
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: now play it at this tempo. So then we start

590
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: playing at a different tempo. And then you said, okay,

591
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: now don't play it at all. Just play something that's

592
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: like it. That's not it, but that's like it, that

593
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: feels like it, And we would start doing that, and

594
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: then the red button would get pressed and it was

595
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: such a good exercise in like, you know, yeah, there's

596
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: the times where you write a riff that is in

597
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: your heart or whatever and it comes and it's like,

598
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: but you have a bunch of musicians in a room,

599
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: and to guide us into making music that would be

600
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: appropriate for what you wanted to make with him was

601
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: such a such a cool experience. And then the thing

602
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: I was really amazing was you would come into the

603
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: room and you only you didn't talk to us on

604
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: the talkback. You only talk to us if we were

605
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: doing something that you didn't like. If we were doing

606
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: something that you liked, we weren't. We weren't sculpted. I

607
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: just kept playing the part that I was doing over

608
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: and over again. And if you wanted Chris to change

609
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: your pattern, you kind of took an ear off him

610
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: and told him, or if you wanted me to do something,

611
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: you kind of told me. And that was such like

612
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: a hands on, like amazing exercise. And I don't remember

613
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: what the music sounded like because it was so long ago,

614
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: but it was incredible. And I've made so much of

615
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: my music exactly like that music that's out from there,

616
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: and it was you know, when was the first time

617
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: you did that? What was that might have been the

618
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: first time? Honestly, you remember the process kind of going.

619
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: I remember the process exactly. It's because usually when I

620
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: go into the studio, we go into the student Typically

621
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: we go into the studio with songs already written. I

622
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: don't usually go into the studio with a blank slate

623
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: to make something. Justin wanted to go in with more

624
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: of a blank slate, which was not the way I

625
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: normally work, but I'm down to try whatever. So this

626
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: was a way to jump start the process, to try

627
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: to find grooves or fields or directions, starting points and

628
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: then hopefully that would inspire a vocal idea and which

629
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: when he was up for doing. It was incredible every time, amazing,

630
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: like ridiculous right over there, ridiculous. So then the vocal

631
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: idea would happen, and Matt would kind of determine what's

632
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: supposed to happen next, you know, because now we sort

633
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: of have the maybe not a whole song, but a

634
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: part of a song, like usually the key part of

635
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: the song, maybe not the hook or sometimes just the hook,

636
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: but but like a key component. And Mean's like, okay,

637
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: if this is this part what naturally wants to happen next,

638
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: and you try all the different variations and see where

639
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: it goes. It's amazing. People don't realize how unbelievable of

640
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: a musician he really is, like as a singer, as

641
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: a drummer, as a piano player, like he's it's not

642
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: just like part of the show. I mean, he's really

643
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: is super time gifted like that. And I think he

644
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 1: really enjoyed that process so much. You know, I want

645
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: to hear those tapes at some point. There's some good

646
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: stuff on there. Yeah. Do you think of yourself more

647
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: now as a songwriter, producer or a guitar player? I

648
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: don't know. Um, I think a producer would you say

649
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: you spend most of your time in producer mode. Yes, yeah,

650
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: makes sense. One thing that I was thinking about the

651
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: other day was I just made this amazing album with

652
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: Miley Cyrus, which I'm so excited about. It's only her

653
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: doing her like rock thing and singing, and the songs

654
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: are totally have you know, their hookie and poppy and

655
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: where they need to be and stuff. But it's her

656
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: really in her ross form. And I was closing my

657
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: eyes the other day as I was making music with

658
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: her headphones on because my studio we have it kind

659
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: of all open, and I was closing my eyes and

660
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: I was listening to this incredible voice come out, and

661
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, I am so lucky to like listen to

662
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: the human voice. The human voice is like the most

663
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: incredible because you hear people play great guitar part that

664
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: could message I'm sure Mike Campbell got your heartstrings going

665
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: many times before, or a great you know, keyboard part,

666
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: or a great riff. But like, the human voice is

667
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: the only thing where you can take melody and attach

668
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: lyrics to it and evoke emotion in a different way.

669
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: And like you're sitting there understanding you're you're guiding this

670
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: person to get the vocal that's gonna be it's on

671
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: record that everyone hears and is the emotion strong enough,

672
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,479
Speaker 1: And it's a very cathartic experience for me, like every time,

673
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm so lucky to work with such

674
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: a great singer, especially like her, And I just had

675
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: this moment where I've just felt like really blessed the

676
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: other day when I was just listening to the vocal

677
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: of a song that I think is so special and

678
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: it comes to life. Is that your favorite part of

679
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 1: producing when you do the vocal? No, But I think

680
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: for me the most exciting part is when it's it

681
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 1: goes from ordinary to unusual, like like in the moment

682
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: when everybody's playing and it's pretty good, it's pretty good,

683
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: and it's pretty good, and then all of a sudden

684
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: something happens, and it can be a tiny thing, and

685
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it shifts into this like you've

686
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: never heard anything that's good before, and you don't know why.

687
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: You know, you don't know why what. You don't know

688
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: what changed between the take before and mistake, or between

689
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: the last thirty seconds and this thirty seconds, but something

690
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: aligns and that feeling of like it's like a harmonic

691
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: convergence that happens, and that's I'm just waiting for that.

692
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: That's what I'm wish And you know it when you

693
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: hear it, you can't you can't miss it, you know.

694
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: I got to hang with Nile Rogers recently, who's one

695
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: of the great records, and he said something similar to

696
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: what you just said, where his process. I loved to

697
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: know everyone's process because everyone's different. He when he was

698
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: recording with shek all the time, they'd record a bunch

699
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: of takes and they would cut out the third course

700
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: and move it to the first chorse because everyone was

701
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: playing better by then. They knew the song and it

702
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: was exciting and they got through the thing, and he

703
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: would just take the third course and make it the

704
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: first course. And like they would have to be playing

705
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: as good as that for him to do it. But

706
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: that was like a trick that like always worked. Yeah,

707
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: And if you think about like good times, that's like

708
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 1: later in the song, but you hear it at the top,

709
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: it's really weird. We would do the same sometimes, or

710
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: sometimes we would repeat a section of the song just

711
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: because this one particular version of the verse was never

712
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: as good as that. So that became the first hand

713
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: second verse just because just because so you're sitting in

714
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: your dorm at NYU and you're you're making beats, right,

715
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: You're what are you using an MPC or and you

716
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: are listening to when the levee breaks, and you're like,

717
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: these drums are out of control? How do you make

718
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: the decision to be like, I'm gonna this is, I'm

719
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: gonna loop this, I'm gonna show this to someone, and

720
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: these should be the drums for you know, one of

721
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: the best Beastie Boys songs ever. Like, what was that process?

722
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: Do you remember? Or I would say I was in

723
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: general always making beats, djaying, listening to records in djaying

724
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: and looking for opportunities too. And there was no such

725
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: thing as sampling then, so it was more like things

726
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: to either scratch in or like a breakbeat where you

727
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: could play, you know, on two turntables and play a

728
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: little section back and forth. So it was just an

729
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: interesting idea to use something like when Levy breaks as

730
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: a breakbeat, because most people were making breakbeats out of

731
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: more R and B records. Yeah, and when you when

732
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: Paul's Boutique comes out and samplings changed forever. Are you like, fuck,

733
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: how am I gonna make records now? No? I just

734
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: thought it was the greatest thing I ever heard. I

735
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: never thought I never I never thought about how it

736
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: affected me. I just thought about, this is great music,

737
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: and I want to listen to this. I remember when

738
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: I first heard Paul's boutique, was before it came out,

739
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: and I was with Chuck d and we were at

740
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: the Mandrean Hotel in la and we listened to it

741
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: together and both of us said, this is the future

742
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: hip hop. This is the greatest thing we ever heard.

743
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 1: Were so excited. We loved it. We loved it. We'll

744
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: be right back with more from Andrew Watt after the break.

745
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: We're back with more from Andrew Watt and Rick Rubin.

746
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: What was I what's your first memory of music in

747
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: your life? First thing you remember any experience in music?

748
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: I went to go see George Benson when I was

749
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: like six with my parents at like a Westbury music fair. Yes,

750
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: that would be the place you'd see George Benson at

751
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: the Westbury Music Fair. And I remember him. I didn't

752
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: playing any instruments at this point, but I remember him

753
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: singing and playing his guitar solos at the same time,

754
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: and being like my mind was just like blown, like

755
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: how this guy is not I mean now reflecting on

756
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: it's like he could how many good, great guitar players

757
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: have you seen just play the most melodic things you've

758
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 1: ever seen, but he could sing it at the same time,

759
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: and that two parts of his brain completely working together.

760
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: Just that was like one of the first things that

761
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: I ever remember what kind of music was playing in

762
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: your house growing up? My dad played me The Beatles

763
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: was the number one thing, but Sabbath and Zeppelin and

764
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 1: The Who, and my mom was listening to Stevie Wonder

765
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: and George Michael and Neil Young and just all that stuff.

766
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: And my dad's final collection was like a huge thing

767
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: for me. I remember finding like the All Things Must

768
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: Pass album super young and playing that as like, you know,

769
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: you go through the Beatles and then you get the

770
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: Beatles spinoffs. That to me is the best of the

771
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: Beatles spinoffs because he had those songs for so long

772
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: and it was kind of holding him back. But yeah,

773
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: all that stuff just listen to. And then my brother,

774
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: who was the one that was like Alison Chain's Unplugged

775
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: in Pearl Jam, Blood Sugar Sex five years, five years

776
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 1: so I'm turning thirty on Tuesday. Actually Coagulations, Yeah, Libra

777
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: Libra gang. Yeah, what was the first music that you

778
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 1: felt like? Was your music as a as a kid?

779
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: Not your older brothers music, not your parents music, but

780
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 1: your music. So funny, man, it was like one of

781
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: the things I want to talk to about. But like

782
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: I went to Sam Goody and I remember being like

783
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: eight years old, kind of nine years old, and my

784
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: mom would just leave me in there and go and

785
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: do stuff. And I was talking to the guy at

786
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,959
Speaker 1: the store. I was like, I want to buy these

787
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: some CDs. I have money for three CDs, and he

788
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 1: was showing me stuff and asking me about what I liked.

789
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: And the three CDs he gave me were bloods Up

790
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: in the One, Appetite for Destruction by Guns and Roses

791
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: and Blood Sugar Sex Magic by the Red Chili Peppers,

792
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: which that album affected me the most. Really, Yeah, it

793
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: was because at the time that's like a true melding

794
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: of genres. Zeppelin is my favorite band ever, you know,

795
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: and obviously Guns and Roses amazing and I both those

796
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: albums are in my DNA for sure. But the Blood

797
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: Sugar Sex Magic album was like I had to know

798
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 1: every crevice of that and it was so cool to

799
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: hear rap and rock and funk and all of those

800
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: different things kind of coming together and it really just

801
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: had a super profound effect on me. I have no idea. Yeah, nice, Yeah.

802
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 1: And then you know, being becoming so close with Chad

803
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: kind of working with him and that's how we met.

804
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: We did session together and then we became so close.

805
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: And then obviously he was you know, gracious enough to

806
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: bring me around the other guys and they've all become

807
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: friends and are I know those are your that's your family.

808
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: They're the most special group of people that you can imagine.

809
00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: But you know, it's this weird thing where you could

810
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 1: on your idols become your friends and that's such a trip.

811
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: You know. That's where I feel like the simulation is

812
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: like a real thing. You know. I found myself in

813
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: Egypt with them when they played at the Pyramids last year,

814
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: and I'm like getting I'm so lucky to like not

815
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: only go and watch them play, but they let me

816
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: come on this amazing adventure of like riding camels and

817
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: they shut down the Pyramids and I was like they're

818
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: taking in that culture of like privately looking at these

819
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: things that are older than time and that no one

820
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: really knows how they got there. And I was just like,

821
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: you know what, maybe this whole life thing is not

822
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: really a real thing because you're not supposed to do this.

823
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: You know, you're not supposed to like get these experiences.

824
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: It's miraculous. I'm sure you had those moments. Absolutely, It's unbelievable. Happens.

825
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: It happens all the time, and I still every day

826
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: I can't believe when it happens, happened yesterday, happened, yes

827
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,479
Speaker 1: what happened yesterday? Just had a long conversation with Bruce

828
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: Springsteen that was mind blowing and it was just a trip.

829
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah real. I heard this awesome story of Jimmy was

830
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:15,439
Speaker 1: producing that album Born to Run, and he brought down

831
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: like the mix mixes back to his dad's house in

832
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: and he had him on cassette. It's like cassette at

833
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: that time, and he went to sleep. He was like late.

834
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: They worked on the mixes all night and he got

835
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: up in the morning to like go get it and

836
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: make sure it's still sounded good in the morning. Gives

837
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: ears a break and the cassette was gone. He's like,

838
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,479
Speaker 1: where the fuck are these mixes? Like, oh my god,

839
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: and freaking out calls his dad, and his dad's like

840
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: on the construction site that he works on. He's like,

841
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: oh my god, Jimmy, this is the best thing you've

842
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: ever done. The guys on the site they love it.

843
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: It's amazing. He's like, Dad, bring the mixes home. You

844
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: don't understand. You gotta bring the mixes home. And he

845
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 1: never told Bruce that story until like, really really recently.

846
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: And but if you think about it, the working class

847
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: guy on the construction site heard this stuff before anyone else.

848
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: There's kind of nothing more that Bruce would have. I

849
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: don't know Bruce at all, but I just know what

850
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: I've heard, and I think he would probably really like

851
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: that absolutely. So I just love that story. I love

852
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: those stories behind the record. And then you know, I've

853
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: I got the ultimate honor, which you've had a bunch

854
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: of times of making an Aussie album last year, which

855
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, you asked me what the first thing my

856
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: dad played me Sabbath and and like you've spent time

857
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: with that guy was amazing. Is he not the greatest, kindest,

858
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: super funny, the funniest person ever, you know. He told me.

859
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: He told me a story like he went to hang

860
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: out with you one night after he was drinking and

861
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: he's like saying you he did, he did. I got

862
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: an entire black Sabbath concert in my living room as

863
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: the sun was coming up from from a high and drunk.

864
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: Azzi was unbelievable. Did you put on the records and

865
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: he's singing along? Yes? So I found out with him

866
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: that if I start any of his songs, go automatically

867
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: sing along. So for me, as like, I'm such a Sabbathan,

868
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: I'll just like the other day, we're in the middle

869
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: of writing. We're doing another album and I started playing

870
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: sweet Leaf and he just sang the whole song. It's like,

871
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: what else do you want out of life? Just listen

872
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: to Azzi singing. He still loves his songs. He's been

873
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: singing the same songs for fifty years and he can

874
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: still do it. It's amazing. It's amazing for me, the

875
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: coolest that, you know, working with him. I didn't want to.

876
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: I didn't I would like, almost didn't want to do it.

877
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: I made the song with him in post I had

878
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 1: like the idea to put them together because Post loves

879
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: Azzi so much. And I had taken Post to the

880
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: Rainbow Bar and grill because he just like, where can

881
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: I drink in la work and listen to rock And

882
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's actually the pace where you want to be.

883
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 1: I brought him the Rainbow. Then he started. He was like,

884
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: he's the new Lemmy over there, you know know what I mean,

885
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: He's there every night, that's where he drinks. Probably not

886
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: anymore with all this going on, but that's where he was,

887
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: and he bought I wasn't there, but he bought an

888
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: azzy photo off the wall there and he has the

889
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: studio that he records in that's right down sunset from

890
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: the Rainbow. So he's walking down sunset with the photo

891
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: of Azzi a beer in his hand like hammered post malone,

892
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,720
Speaker 1: And that visual in my head made me, for whatever reason,

893
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: be like Post an Azzi have to do a song together.

894
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: If he could have got a picture of him walking

895
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: along with the Azzi photo, that would have been the

896
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: perfect cover for the same, the best, the best ever.

897
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: And so yeah, we did that whole song, which was

898
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: so much fun for me. And then he wanted to

899
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: make an album, and I don't want to make like

900
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: a shitty Azzi album because his stuff is so good.

901
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: Like so, you know, Duff and Chad played on the album,

902
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: which you know both those guys as well, and they're

903
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: amazing and really helped make it authentic. But the moment

904
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: for me that it was real was like Azzi sang

905
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: and then he doubled his voice. Yeah, and when he

906
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: doubles his voice, it sounds like asion record. It's crazy.

907
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: I've never experienced that before because usually you want like

908
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: a double at least for me to be like as

909
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: close to each other as possible, and with him, the

910
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: more different it is, the cooler it is. And it

911
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: makes one that's clearly out of tune automatically not be

912
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,879
Speaker 1: out of tune. It's like one plus one equals two.

913
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: I've never experienced it before. Are you still listening to

914
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: music all the time. I listened to music all the time,

915
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: but my default listening is not music that I would

916
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: ever work on. I probably listened to more classical and

917
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: jazz now, just because I want a relief from you know,

918
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: I spend so many hours in the recording studio and

919
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 1: over so many years that my enjoyment. Listening tends to

920
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 1: be a palette cleanser from what I'm working on. Yeah,

921
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't find myself listening to a lot

922
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: of music anymore. Like in the car, I love silence

923
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: because I like podcasts. I listen to people talking. Yeah,

924
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: that that too, interviews or lectures. I really like learning stuff.

925
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: So you're hearing so much music and loud music all

926
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: the time, and it's like almost like you want to

927
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: save your ears to be able to Do you listen

928
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: for fun or do you listen to see what's happening both.

929
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: The other night, I was, you know, we all go

930
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 1: through our personal journeys. I was feeling a bit sad,

931
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: and I you know why, Do I know why I

932
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: was feeling sad? Yeah, I know why I was feeling sad.

933
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: But I was kind of going through a thing where

934
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: I realized whatever, you know, you make decisions and then

935
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: there's outcomes and you have to live with that kind

936
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: of stuff. So so I came home and I there's

937
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: a package for me my house. Opened it up and

938
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: Ozzie had sent me the fiftieth anniversary A Paranoid. The

939
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: vinyl had just come out, and I opened it up,

940
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: great packaging, they know what they're doing with that stuff.

941
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: And in it were two live bootlegs concerts. One of

942
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: them was from Zurich. So I popped it in on

943
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: my turntable and I just sat on my floor and

944
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: I just turned it up loud and I just listened

945
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: to this Sabbath live show and it's like before Paranoid

946
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: came out, and the words are different, but they're basically

947
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: playing down Paranoid and it's like they're on fire. And

948
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: I just couldn't stop smiling. It didn't matter what was

949
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: going on. This music, it just affects me in such

950
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: a way it's amazing. So listening to that vinyl was

951
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: just like a really good It was the first time

952
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: I like sat and listened to a record through all

953
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: the way and they flipped it and just listen, and

954
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta go back and just do

955
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,399
Speaker 1: that more. It wasn't like the pressure of you saying,

956
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: like you want to hear what's happening, you know. I

957
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 1: listened every Friday, New Music Friday comes out on Spotify,

958
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: and that's you know, they do their best to give

959
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: you a bunch of songs that are coming out from

960
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: artists that they you know, whoever is choosing that they

961
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 1: whether they're relevant or it's just cool or whatever it is.

962
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: I kind of skimmed through that. I think usually once

963
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: a week or I get it later. What percentage of

964
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 1: those things to end up liking? Very few? Because I

965
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: don't know listen to old stuff when I when I

966
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 1: do listen and listen to very old, very old music.

967
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: But I just justin and just put out a new

968
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: song with Benny Blanco that I thought was amazing and

969
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: understated and really cool instead of overproduced and the opposite.

970
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 1: I just heard that on Friday, which I thought was

971
00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: awesome and amazing. Yeah, I'm trying to think when the

972
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 1: last time I. I don't really listen to that many.

973
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: I'll listen for like a second, just like I just

974
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: want to like see what's going on. It's almost like

975
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: Spotify has become like of like it's like checking the stocks.

976
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,399
Speaker 1: It's really weird because that's the chart. It's chart. There's

977
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 1: a chart on there. It's like there's Global Top fifty.

978
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: You can fully see when your song where it is

979
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,439
Speaker 1: Global Top fifty and how far it's moving up now

980
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,439
Speaker 1: far it's moving down, And like people are listening to

981
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: your music in real time and you're seeing how they

982
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: like it. It's just it's strange. It's really strange. So

983
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,439
Speaker 1: of course I look at that, try not to when

984
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of making stuff. I try and

985
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: when i'm you know, I'm working so hard on the

986
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: music that I make and mixing it and mastering it

987
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: that by the time I'm done with it, it's like

988
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: for everyone else, I kind of them getting worn out

989
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 1: in the process of mixing. Lately, I don't think. I mean,

990
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: I've had songs, of course where the mix is catapulted

991
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: the song and changed it. But you know, I have

992
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: an engineer who I think is incredible named Paul Amalfa,

993
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 1: who works with me on everything I do, and is

994
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: roughs are getting so good and they're doing what I

995
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: want to the record, I'm like, why am I now

996
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: then going to sit with someone else who is amazing

997
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 1: at what they do? So naturally, they have an ego

998
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 1: about how they think stuff should be, and they've never

999
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: heard my song. They don't know how what the words mean,

1000
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: or which words should be a little louder, or which

1001
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: parts I love the most. Because I've spend so much

1002
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: time on it, and then I got to go and

1003
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: spend another like two weeks doing this again with someone else,

1004
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: and I'm already burnt on the song because we worked

1005
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,320
Speaker 1: on it for so long. I just find the process

1006
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: like now, just because we can get the roughs so

1007
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: close to be almost a little bit unnecessary. Sometimes do

1008
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 1: you run into that at all? Or well, I've definitely

1009
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 1: gotten to the point where we've got demos so good

1010
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 1: that no matter how much time we spend mixing it,

1011
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: it's not as good as the rough mix. And we

1012
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: end up going with the rough mix a lot more

1013
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: now than ever. Is that happening because of how good

1014
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: the technology is and how good your engineers are. I'll

1015
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 1: just say sometimes yes and sometimes Noah. And same is

1016
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: true with mastering, by the way, like usually now for

1017
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: a while now, I'll always have the mastering lab master

1018
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,479
Speaker 1: it the way they imagine it, and then also send

1019
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: me a flat master, which all that all that is

1020
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: is there's no eq there's no compression. All they're doing

1021
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: is balancing the level between songs, so it doesn't get

1022
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: you know, if one mixes quieter than the next, they

1023
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: just get it so that they all flow into each

1024
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: other without level changes, but without doing anything to them.

1025
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 1: And I would say eight out of ten times we

1026
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: end up picking that over there because they leave your

1027
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 1: mix ALUs. They leave your mix alone, and you can

1028
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: get the mixes so loud now, right, that was the

1029
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,320
Speaker 1: overall thing. I wanted to be loud. I wanted to

1030
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: be loud. Also, now you know you can change things,

1031
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: Like are there any albums that you've made where you're like,

1032
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: I want to remaster this. I never look back, I

1033
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: will say. The only thing I'll say is like, if

1034
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 1: it was mastered using old technology, you know, thirty years ago,

1035
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: we might try remastering it now to see if just

1036
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: the technology has gotten better to where it sounds better. Yeah,

1037
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: you know, But also, what's the point If it's such

1038
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: a classic album that people love so much and have

1039
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,879
Speaker 1: bought zillions of copies and it means something to them,

1040
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 1: why change it? Yeah, it's true. Is it for the

1041
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 1: love of just making it better? This could sound better

1042
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, I would never think about remixing anything,

1043
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: or it's more just that. I'll give you an example,

1044
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: although this is an ample about a remix and it

1045
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with me. I'm just a fan,

1046
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: but I don't know if you've heard the last year's

1047
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: release of the White album deluxe version remixed and remastered.

1048
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: It blew my mind. Now. It's probably my favorite album.

1049
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,919
Speaker 1: Listened to it a million times in my life, and

1050
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 1: it only sounded better. It didn't sound different, but I

1051
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: felt like I could hear it in a way that

1052
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: was never able to hear it before. Like there, it

1053
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 1: had a clarity that was never there and a detail.

1054
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 1: And it's not like, well, I hear this other thing

1055
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: that I never heard before because it's louder. It never

1056
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: felt like shined. It just was clear, and I loved it.

1057
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: So that was the best example of somebody using technology

1058
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: to take something that couldn't be better and making it better.

1059
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,919
Speaker 1: And they mixed it at Abbey Road, and they did

1060
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: it where it was made, and they did it the

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00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: right way. And did George's son do that? Yeah? It's awesomes? Yeah,

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00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: I mean those are those are those are the album.

1063
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: I always say that every person that I work with,

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00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: if I'm working with an artist or a friend, anyone

1065
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: that's like, I want to play guitar, what should I do?

1066
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: The only thing to do if you want to learn

1067
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 1: to play guitar is or write songs. It's by a

1068
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: Beatles chord book. That is. If you sit with that

1069
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: book and you can play through every one of those songs,

1070
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: don't have to do it well, but you can finger

1071
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: though every one of those chords and every one of

1072
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: those songs, you will know everything you need to know

1073
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: about writing a song, because that's just it. I mean.

1074
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: And they were like badly classically trained musicians, you know

1075
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like they all started on classical music

1076
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: at Blackbird is like a flip of an old classical song.

1077
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: They were just like that was so important to them,

1078
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 1: you know, and in their upbringing of music. And because

1079
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: of that, the chords are so detailed, but they put

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00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: them into pops. So I mean, I think that's just

1081
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: like for me, I'm taking chords and playing it and

1082
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 1: then making a buyner after. It's all Beatles all the

1083
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: time forever. Well, thank you for sharing stories, Thank you

1084
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: for talking to me. I don't even know really why

1085
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: I'm here. I just want to hang out with you.

1086
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: Who will continue now on a personal note, cool, thank

1087
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: you thanks to Andrew Watt for sharing some amazing stories

1088
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: with us. Look forward to hearing more music from him

1089
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 1: in the future. You can hear a playlist of some

1090
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: of our favorite Andrew Watt records at broken record podcast

1091
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: dot com, and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube

1092
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast. There

1093
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: you can find excited cuts of new and old episodes.

1094
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,

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00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler and his executive produced by Miolabelle.

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00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industry and if

1097
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and

1098
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. Our theme mus expect

1099
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: any beats. I'm justin Richmond Pace