Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Fire Drill. On this week's episode,
Speaker 1: Matt Janella joined us. So it was Michael Alan, myself
Speaker 1: and Matt, and we started off a conversation uh and
Speaker 1: really talked a lot about VJ. And it really went
Speaker 1: a lot of places like the Fire Drill is supposed
Speaker 1: to do, places that I didn't expect. Matt tells some
Speaker 1: stories about a photo shoot. We obviously talk dear Antler
Speaker 1: Spray because he can't talk VJ without dear Antler Spray.
Speaker 1: Who knew. I didn't know that you put it under
Speaker 1: your tongue, but I learned that today. Um. Yeah. But
Speaker 1: we talked a lot about his career and good things,
Speaker 1: bad things. It was really very interesting, one of those
Speaker 1: moments when I'm on this podcast that I kind of, uh,
Speaker 1: sit back and try to listen because it's great stories
Speaker 1: from guys who have had firsthand experience at Allan and
Speaker 1: Michael and Matt with him. So it was great. Talked
Speaker 1: about PNC obviously, UM and Tiger and Charlie and and
Speaker 1: just all the things that come with it. Tiger as
Speaker 1: a father, Uh, Tiger's place in the game. Uh. Out
Speaker 1: of least places in the game that we all need
Speaker 1: to chill delf out about like everything that Charlie does. Um.
Speaker 1: We don't need to be that into Charlie. There can
Speaker 1: be a level of interest without a stalker situation. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then lastly, uh, we talked about O W g
Speaker 1: rum Matt had put out a tweet UM a little
Speaker 1: bit to go maybe last week that kind of went
Speaker 1: a little bit sideways at times UM, and he came
Speaker 1: on to kind of explain his thoughts and we all
Speaker 1: joined in about O W G R and and what
Speaker 1: it looks like in the future. So it's a great
Speaker 1: debate four of us instead of three uh this week
Speaker 1: before we get into the actual podcast, obviously want to
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Speaker 1: uh lastly, uh new podcast that we've that fire Pit
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Speaker 1: be an awesome one great guest coming up. We just
Speaker 1: talked off air per se about upcoming guests for this
Speaker 1: show and it is very very cool. Um. So all
Speaker 1: of that being said, go to our YouTube page, subscribe,
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Speaker 1: we can all just move on with our lives. So
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Speaker 1: out at the fire Pit Collective YouTube channel. These podcasts
Speaker 1: are on there also, And without further ado, here's the
Speaker 1: four of us this week talking golf. I got in
Speaker 1: my head, can't get Jan nothing thing what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1: Can't get him now, Jen not to think well, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about Hello and welcome back to their Fire Drill podcast.
Speaker 1: This is Alan Schipnuk. I am joined by Michael Bamberger
Speaker 1: and Ryan French as always, and we have our our
Speaker 1: colleague Matt Janella, who wanted to come on. He he
Speaker 1: was under some bridges battling various trolls and thought we'd
Speaker 1: have a a more thoughtful discussion about the topic of hand,
Speaker 1: which was the world rankings and whether or not the
Speaker 1: fire per Collective as a shill for live golf. Um,
Speaker 1: but we will. We will start with the the events
Speaker 1: of the day. I mean, it's it's a goat factory
Speaker 1: out here. We had we started with Lionel Messy went
Speaker 1: in the World Cup and we're rolling the Tiger and
Speaker 1: Anika plane at the parents and so and you can't
Speaker 1: call the father son and fonicas there and uh, of
Speaker 1: course we got Tom Brady playing football layer today. It's
Speaker 1: quite a sports day. Um, this is not a soccer podcast.
Speaker 1: We don't have to go deep on that. But Tiger
Speaker 1: and Charlie did not make a run. They're both a
Speaker 1: little banged up, but it was it was fun to
Speaker 1: see them out there. It was I loved watching VJ
Speaker 1: seeing bring it home with his son. I remember when
Speaker 1: his son cast was like early teenager. Now the dudes
Speaker 1: in his thirties and um, they finally won it for
Speaker 1: the first time after two decades, and it was it
Speaker 1: was just fun to watch VJ do his thing. But
Speaker 1: obviously all eyes were on Tiger and Charlie. Um what
Speaker 1: did you guys think of of how how that the
Speaker 1: Woods Is performed. I think, first of all, that the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour, if they could have picked a worst storyline
Speaker 1: to happen, I'm not sure VJ and and his son winning.
Speaker 1: I mean they're like no, like they're having no fun.
Speaker 1: They're like in full grind mode, like typical things out there,
Speaker 1: Like VJ is full grind. I tweeted like they probably
Speaker 1: went to the range after they won and like pounded
Speaker 1: balls for a while, like it was full grind mode.
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, I mean, it was great
Speaker 1: to see the Woods. I love the dailies, but if
Speaker 1: all storylines that could have happened, the things probably was
Speaker 1: not on the top of the PGA tours list. Uh.
Speaker 1: I don't agree, and Alan already knows why VJ is
Speaker 1: always sticking it to the man and anytime he wins,
Speaker 1: he's sticking it somewhere and I like it. Yeah. Does
Speaker 1: Does Vj's career money list include the settlement he earned
Speaker 1: in the PGA Tour for from the deer handler spray
Speaker 1: non you know, suspension non suspenseion it. I mean that
Speaker 1: probably bumps them up a couple of nots. Is Matt,
Speaker 1: what was your take? I'm sort of with Michael, I
Speaker 1: I think, you know, is VJ? You know, my favorite
Speaker 1: player that I've ever met or spent time with or
Speaker 1: worked with. You know, I've got everybody has their own
Speaker 1: and all what our opinions of like players, always comes
Speaker 1: down to like our own experiences, you know, right, And
Speaker 1: and I have one terrible story about VJ saying and
Speaker 1: how he treated a photographer Golf Digest, Steve's early who
Speaker 1: is is a lifetime committed member of the world of
Speaker 1: golf media and has tirelessly covered this game for more
Speaker 1: than a better part of four decades. And VJ really
Speaker 1: treated him poorly on a Golf Digest cover shoot, and
Speaker 1: that always stuck with me, like I can't forgive him
Speaker 1: for it, Like I just can't, you know. And I've
Speaker 1: heard that VJ is actually a decent dude. If you're
Speaker 1: in the inner circle. It's a little bit like Tiger
Speaker 1: the way he treats the innerstrc If you're in your end,
Speaker 1: if you're out, you're out. Um. You know, I just
Speaker 1: have that one story that always lives with me on
Speaker 1: how he treated a guy like Steve's earl who didn't
Speaker 1: deserve it, one of the best people ever. But that
Speaker 1: you gotta tell us what happened if you come on given. Oh,
Speaker 1: well it was golfed. I just cover shoot. I was
Speaker 1: the you know, the director of photography, so I'm coordinating
Speaker 1: with the agent on the front end. Hey, you know,
Speaker 1: here's here's where they're meeting, Here's where it's going to be.
Speaker 1: It's it was practiced round of of a tour event.
Speaker 1: You know, say it was a Tuesday before an event,
Speaker 1: and he was going to give z Earlie some time
Speaker 1: and again a cover shoot, and Zuli's request to me
Speaker 1: to communicate to the agent was, hey, you know, given
Speaker 1: Vj's you know, specific color of his skin and how
Speaker 1: dark he is, and in trying to make the cover
Speaker 1: shoot look as good as it could be without the
Speaker 1: without adding any light because we're doing it outside. He
Speaker 1: wanted to do it outside during the practice round. He
Speaker 1: the request was no, you know, black or white visors,
Speaker 1: no black or white shirt because that contrast was going
Speaker 1: to be really hard to make look good in a
Speaker 1: in a on a cover shoot. So it was like, hey,
Speaker 1: can you just bring different color shirts or visors? Um,
Speaker 1: And at the end of the round where he was
Speaker 1: going to go change and get you know, he came
Speaker 1: out with a white shirt and a black visor and
Speaker 1: Steve was like, hey, hey man, any chance we can
Speaker 1: get I thought we communicated that there was this is
Speaker 1: gonna make it really hard with this light to try
Speaker 1: to get light. You know, No, this is what I'm wearing. Okay,
Speaker 1: well you know you do see that this. We're trying
Speaker 1: to make this as good as possible. This is what
Speaker 1: I'm wearing, you know. But if there's any chance, okay,
Speaker 1: how about this, what if we what if we do
Speaker 1: the cover shoot without the visor and on the inside
Speaker 1: for the swing sequence that was generally tied to a
Speaker 1: cover shoot, you can wear the visor inside. He goes, Hey, man,
Speaker 1: I make more for this wearing this visor than you
Speaker 1: will in your entire career. I'm wearing the visor, you know,
Speaker 1: drop that line. I'm wearing the virus. This is what
Speaker 1: I'm wearing, and that's what we're doing. And you know,
Speaker 1: at that point, you know, Steve's Steve's just trying to
Speaker 1: make it look you know, it had been cue again
Speaker 1: on the front Like that, to me is just being
Speaker 1: a dick right at that point, that's like using the
Speaker 1: line do you know who I am? Like if you're
Speaker 1: dropping those kinds of lines, I'm I'm ware make I
Speaker 1: can make more for this than what And then it's
Speaker 1: just it's the whole thing that just in I think,
Speaker 1: you know, and we're just trying to make him look good, right,
Speaker 1: We're just trying everybody's got in theory the same goal,
Speaker 1: which is to try to make him you know. So
Speaker 1: I don't know that just I'm not sure there's another
Speaker 1: player out there here where there's as big a gap
Speaker 1: between how the players feel about him and how the
Speaker 1: fans of media feel about him, because most of the
Speaker 1: players really like VJ, partly because he's like the the
Speaker 1: he was forever was the de facto swing coach on tour,
Speaker 1: Like if guys were struggling, they'd go talk to VJ.
Speaker 1: He was so knowledgeable and he was generous with his time,
Speaker 1: and you'd see him working with different players and he'd
Speaker 1: be on the practice green sharing his little weird putting aids.
Speaker 1: And I think there's actually a lot of VJ loyalists.
Speaker 1: They liked that he stood up to Tiger, he stood
Speaker 1: up to Phil. You know, they famously went jawn to
Speaker 1: jaw in the champions locker room at the Master's VJ
Speaker 1: and Phil and there was no love loss between between
Speaker 1: VJ and Tiger, and I think players appreciate that. Well,
Speaker 1: everyone else was retreating. You know. VJ wasn't afraid of Tiger,
Speaker 1: and he actually he got the better of him a
Speaker 1: few times during peak Tiger era. So VJ I think
Speaker 1: has a lot of respect among his peers. But yeah,
Speaker 1: fans have never warmed up to him. There's he was
Speaker 1: He's never been a favorite among the typing class. So
Speaker 1: it's just it's fascinating. I don't think VJs too bothered
Speaker 1: by any of that. As he said, he's he's got
Speaker 1: all the money in the world, and he's got the
Speaker 1: trophies and he just he does d G a f
Speaker 1: which on some levels kind of high respect. I certainly
Speaker 1: respect him. I when I first joined Morning Drive, now
Speaker 1: ten years ago. It was right around the time of
Speaker 1: the dear Antler spray incident, and I was I was
Speaker 1: kind of bewildered by the idea that a guy of
Speaker 1: VJ stature and all that, you know, and where where
Speaker 1: where they were with the game would put something like
Speaker 1: dear antler spray under his tongue without running it by
Speaker 1: a few people, just to make sure that they that
Speaker 1: the contents of it weren't going to come up as
Speaker 1: you know, something that that the tour was uh, you know,
Speaker 1: banned as a as a substance. You know, it was like, really,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go with deer antler spray and just like
Speaker 1: you know, just without without running it by a few people.
Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of like poked at him for that,
Speaker 1: and I don't think you appreciated. But you know, I've
Speaker 1: had a couple, know, I've crossed paths with them from
Speaker 1: time to time. Certainly the Pure Insurance where the Champions Tour.
Speaker 1: I love that event, and you know, he's he's been
Speaker 1: nice to me. But I that that story about how
Speaker 1: how he treated Steve and what he said to Steve,
Speaker 1: and as a director of tire and in the camp
Speaker 1: of photographers and knowing how selfless and behind the scenes
Speaker 1: they are and what they go through to carry those
Speaker 1: that equipment and get into position and try to make
Speaker 1: the players look good and shoots like that. It's like
Speaker 1: that just seemed unnecessary and dick ish to me. Right well.
Speaker 1: The opposite of that is in the early s I days,
Speaker 1: photographers told Arnold Palmer, hey, wear a red sweater. It
Speaker 1: looks great on the cover. And already showed up in
Speaker 1: a red sweater. You know, yeah, you got it. It
Speaker 1: showed be yellows, reds, you know, you know, contrast colors.
Speaker 1: It's like the Queen always wears those bright colors. So
Speaker 1: you could spart in a crowd. It's kind of the
Speaker 1: same principal plays. What are you gonna say a minute ago, Michael, No,
Speaker 1: it's gonna ask gran if you ever actually used dear antlers? Yeah? Always.
Speaker 1: He may be our only hunter. I don't see ships
Speaker 1: that for me doing a lot of hunting. Matt, I
Speaker 1: don't know about I mean it is there is it
Speaker 1: basically a yurine what I don't even know. I don't
Speaker 1: know if people want to say there there was a
Speaker 1: there was a g n C right near the right
Speaker 1: near the entrance to that to that stadium course whatever
Speaker 1: they called TPC sawgrass and she's you know, back in
Speaker 1: the day with BJ was just getting bigger and stronger
Speaker 1: and hidden, you know, literally five your balls a day. Uh.
Speaker 1: He would just go there and point at stuff, and
Speaker 1: you know, they would take it down off their shelves
Speaker 1: and he'd go out there with their shopping cart. And
Speaker 1: so I think he was to your question, I think
Speaker 1: he was pretty indiscriminate. I did have a funny thing
Speaker 1: where I was at a bookstore in Augusta, Georgia, the
Speaker 1: week of the Masters. It is the Barnes and Noble there,
Speaker 1: I think off of Bobby Jones Expressway actually, and VJ
Speaker 1: was wandering around and so I was like, oh cool.
Speaker 1: So I kind of like low key stock to him
Speaker 1: to see what he was gonna buy, soph to be
Speaker 1: some erotica or something. But he went right to the
Speaker 1: sports section and he was flipping through the the golf
Speaker 1: books and he wanted he wanted up buying like three books.
Speaker 1: Sadly it wasn't mine or yours, Michael, but it was.
Speaker 1: It was interesting, like he really looked at the books
Speaker 1: with some care, and he he read the back flaps
Speaker 1: and um and uh I think I think it was
Speaker 1: a Hogan biography if I remember correctly, and it was
Speaker 1: a kind of a coffee table book about like the
Speaker 1: great holes of golf, and I just thought it was
Speaker 1: kind of cool, like Michael's gust is a little boring.
Speaker 1: During Master's week there he was no just so happened.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So when I caddied on the European Tour
Speaker 1: nine one, he played a lot of practice for for
Speaker 1: golf dam Peter Turman and VJ played a lot of
Speaker 1: rounds of golf with Peter practice rounds and tournament rounds.
Speaker 1: So I got to know VJ then, and you know,
Speaker 1: to the point we're all making. He's always been quote
Speaker 1: nice to me, except for when he has treated me
Speaker 1: like absolute dirt. So that's happened too. But anyway, uh well,
Speaker 1: we maybe overdo it on VJ. But I think it's
Speaker 1: astounding how good his swing was today. I've seen him
Speaker 1: swing poorly in the past three years, like it didn't
Speaker 1: have the speed that it had now in it. But
Speaker 1: he looks strong, I mean, looks the same really and supple.
Speaker 1: I mean such a long swing. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite swings ever. And um, it's funny,
Speaker 1: we'll probably all have like certain swings burned into our
Speaker 1: brains that we we got to watch up close. One
Speaker 1: of the most majestic golf swings I've ever seen was
Speaker 1: at Whistling Straights when when Singing won that p G
Speaker 1: A and it was in the playoffs, they went to
Speaker 1: the seventeenth hole, that long part of three and um,
Speaker 1: he was just kind of the left side t box.
Speaker 1: I was on this little little hill above it. He's
Speaker 1: just framed by the lake and he hit it was
Speaker 1: just the most beautiful swinging I've ever seen, and he
Speaker 1: just held the finish for song and I don't know
Speaker 1: where that ball is going, but that's the best golf
Speaker 1: swing I've ever seen in my entire life. And of
Speaker 1: course he get it stiff, and that was kind of
Speaker 1: the key to the winning that playoff. I mean that
Speaker 1: PG championship, But like that is just into my memory.
Speaker 1: It was so majestic and it just like the ark
Speaker 1: of the club. It looked like it traveled about twenty
Speaker 1: feet and the rhythm and the grace and the power,
Speaker 1: I mean, peaque VJ was absolutely incredible for someone without
Speaker 1: great without great putting. I just gonna say that for
Speaker 1: a mediocre putter to win nine times knock Tiger from
Speaker 1: number one when the p G a like UM and
Speaker 1: don't for that sixty three he dropped on Tiger in
Speaker 1: Boston to take over number one that year that we're
Speaker 1: playing together. That's one of the all time great head
Speaker 1: to head round. So yeah, it was kind of fun
Speaker 1: to think about VG. I han't thought about him a
Speaker 1: long time, but BG Appreciation Podcast Apparently Matt was his guy.
Speaker 1: Darrett was not. Darren Clark Um Clark Jones was that
Speaker 1: his agent back then at the time. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: UM and and and spend a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: I had a lot of Sergio Garcia. Clark Jones was
Speaker 1: Sergio Garcia. Yeah, the UM did a lot of work
Speaker 1: with Clark at that time, and BJ was tricky. Uh,
Speaker 1: they're all they all have their own their own little
Speaker 1: quirks about him. Um. I got a ton of stories
Speaker 1: because those photo shoots lent themselves to a to a
Speaker 1: lot of great anecdotal stuff. Um. But I will say
Speaker 1: just to go back to the event itself, and I know,
Speaker 1: Michael you're gonna you're gonna write about it, but boy,
Speaker 1: if if, if, if, this isn't the best But with
Speaker 1: Tiger as a father, isn't the best version of Tiger.
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly, he's he's an elite competitor and he
Speaker 1: you know two fifteen that will We're never going to
Speaker 1: see that again. But but this vulnerability, the vulnerable Tiger
Speaker 1: that talks about what his kids meant to him in
Speaker 1: his recovery and what they said to him and how
Speaker 1: it mattered and and all that him sort of on
Speaker 1: the verge of emotions in a in an interview. I
Speaker 1: mean that is to me, you know, and again we
Speaker 1: all have our own incidents are anecdotes about Tiger himself.
Speaker 1: But it's just the best Tiger. It's the Tiger that
Speaker 1: for me as a dad. Now you know, I started
Speaker 1: early with Tiger as a as a photo editor a
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated I was on shoots with him. He was
Speaker 1: really socially awkward. He was he was stiff as rigid.
Speaker 1: You know, his jokes only were funny to the people.
Speaker 1: You know that that sort of we're in his paid
Speaker 1: or on salary. Uh. There was a lot of awkwardness
Speaker 1: about him. But boy, this this version of him when
Speaker 1: he's willing to sort of have these open conversations about
Speaker 1: being a father and watching him interact with his son,
Speaker 1: not unlike what we watched when Earl interacted with a
Speaker 1: young Tiger. It's just very That's the most compelling aspect
Speaker 1: of where we're at with Tiger by far from me,
Speaker 1: and uh, and I like seeing it in other fathers
Speaker 1: and sons or I even like you know, Nelly to me,
Speaker 1: is is um is incredible and and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and worth all the the hype and the attention as
Speaker 1: it relates to her swing and her her her conviction
Speaker 1: and personality and competitive nature. I can't wait to see
Speaker 1: where she goes. But anyway, just the mash up of
Speaker 1: all of that this week was really really cool stuff.
Speaker 1: I said it a couple of weeks ago when we
Speaker 1: were talking about Tigers. You know, I like Tiger more
Speaker 1: after the scandal, if that makes sense, because I think
Speaker 1: he's grown as a person, and this week kind of
Speaker 1: sums that up, like he was a flawed human, still
Speaker 1: a flawed human, and but has grown and only his
Speaker 1: kids and his girlfriend and people around him will be
Speaker 1: the judge of of what kind of person he is.
Speaker 1: And it seems from the outside that he's a great
Speaker 1: father and uh and I think that's at the end
Speaker 1: of the day all that matters. Quick note on the
Speaker 1: apparent child. I know this will never happen be cause
Speaker 1: Charlie would will grow up and Tiger and Charlie will
Speaker 1: play forever. But it should be either you have to
Speaker 1: play with your father or you have to play with
Speaker 1: a kid who's under fifteen. Right, Like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what VJ and his former pro son.
Speaker 1: Is that a great of a story, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? The guy used to play on the European Tour,
Speaker 1: So I don't know, there should just be an age
Speaker 1: woman on the kid part of it. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: disagree with that. But like like you said, Matt, I mean,
Speaker 1: tire hit a couple of electric shots during the first round,
Speaker 1: like that that long pitch off the pin straw that
Speaker 1: was that was so vintage. But um, the most memorable
Speaker 1: thing I think he did across the competition was they
Speaker 1: were the post round press conferences and seeing seeing that
Speaker 1: softer side and seeing that chemistry and he was kind
Speaker 1: of we just started to hear Charlie's voice, right, like
Speaker 1: you know this is they've kind of slowly been unveiling
Speaker 1: him to the world, and so it's fun to hear
Speaker 1: Charlie talked about his dad and um it really, I
Speaker 1: would say for all the Nike ads and all the
Speaker 1: Buick ads, you name it, this has been the single
Speaker 1: best brand building exerciser is for Tiger. Not not to
Speaker 1: be cynical about it, but I mean, because it's clearly
Speaker 1: comes from the heart, but to see a softer side
Speaker 1: of Tiger and that we can all relate to that,
Speaker 1: you know what. You know, I watched my daughter play basketball.
Speaker 1: My heart's like just bursting, and you know, we all
Speaker 1: have competed alongside um kids or parents or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: so to imagine how special that feels for them. It's
Speaker 1: really it's cool that Tiger lets it out. He's not
Speaker 1: trying to hide it, he's not trying to he's not
Speaker 1: trying to make it anything other than what it is,
Speaker 1: which is a really special part of his life in
Speaker 1: his career. And I think other than maybe the Masters
Speaker 1: and the Open, I think this is probably the most
Speaker 1: meaningful week of the year for Tiger and that's cool.
Speaker 1: The other thing is it's also it's another feather in
Speaker 1: the cap of the game. Of golf, and Jordan's made
Speaker 1: that comment about how in the locker room you've got
Speaker 1: these kids in these these these grizzled legends, you know,
Speaker 1: in the same lot headitive locker room. But having played
Speaker 1: in the car golf's father's son at Waterville for years
Speaker 1: now and then the father daughter as well, and watching
Speaker 1: you know, these titans of industry. You know, whether it's
Speaker 1: Dermot Desmond or j P. McManus, or there's been Dan
Speaker 1: Marino or Wayne Gretzky or all these guys. You know, uh,
Speaker 1: Jeff Yang has played. There's so many people who have
Speaker 1: showed up in Waterville and competed in this event um
Speaker 1: from all different sort of walks of life. And that
Speaker 1: the game is that great equalizer that sort of levels
Speaker 1: the the the ego playing field out a bit. And
Speaker 1: you watch fathers who aren't as good as their sons
Speaker 1: or as their good as their daughters, and you watch
Speaker 1: them it's just it's like it's just the best version now.
Speaker 1: It just brings out the best in people. I think
Speaker 1: it's when you start mixing generational stuff up around this
Speaker 1: competitive landscape, it tends to I don't know, it just
Speaker 1: this is a good reason why we look forward to
Speaker 1: this event. It's why we look forward two events that
Speaker 1: involve either our fathers or our sons or daughters, or
Speaker 1: we watch you know. Yeah, I don't know. Just there's
Speaker 1: something about that and the game that no other sport
Speaker 1: really is able to accomplish, and so that in itself
Speaker 1: also deserves to be noted in my opinion, it's well said.
Speaker 1: And and just a quick note on on Tiger's other
Speaker 1: child is is Uh, everyone knows he's got an older daughter, Sam,
Speaker 1: and she was I think she's shy by nature. If
Speaker 1: you know, we've all seen around a little bit. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know that the son Charlie is kind of a
Speaker 1: him and outgoing and and that's delightful. But she's just
Speaker 1: a different personality. But at the Hall of Fame induction
Speaker 1: where she introduced to her father, she was so poised
Speaker 1: and so intelligent and funny and insightful and um, and
Speaker 1: it's neat. I don't think any of us would ever
Speaker 1: want to trade places with Tiger Woods. I mean, we're all,
Speaker 1: I know, we all take being fathers very seriously ourselves.
Speaker 1: Ryan's Tiger's age and has, like Tiger, a son and
Speaker 1: a daughter and uh, you know, we have the advantage
Speaker 1: of raising our children and anonymity, and uh it's a
Speaker 1: much much much better way to grow up. Uh. Tigraph
Speaker 1: of course doesn't have that, and those kids won't have that,
Speaker 1: So there are challenges. We can never really understand it.
Speaker 1: But to see and we just see little glimpses, but
Speaker 1: to see glimpses of these kids that seem to be
Speaker 1: very well adjusted, happy, intelligent, caring kids, it really is
Speaker 1: a great tribute to Tigers. I think of Tiger. I
Speaker 1: think of Tiger as a I like to think that
Speaker 1: I have a lot of empathy for Tiger and in
Speaker 1: my mind and I wouldn't say this of Jack or
Speaker 1: Arnold and very as others. I think is that a
Speaker 1: very very trying, difficult life. So I think it speaks
Speaker 1: very well for for Tire and definitely for Ellen as
Speaker 1: well to see these kids, uh coming out when they
Speaker 1: do make these public appearances um as as they do,
Speaker 1: and I think even deserves some credit to right because
Speaker 1: these kids are obviously got they've got some really good balance.
Speaker 1: From from where we sit and what we see, they've
Speaker 1: got some pretty nice good uh you know, head on
Speaker 1: their shoulders, so to speak. It seems to me, they
Speaker 1: seem pretty well grounded and rounded. You know, we'll we'll
Speaker 1: see how it all evolves. But boy, I mean that
Speaker 1: that to me, considering what Tiger has been going through
Speaker 1: and has dealt with, and Tiger being Tiger, for these
Speaker 1: kids to be who they are in this these situations
Speaker 1: and with microphones in front of their faces, or leading
Speaker 1: them the large of their father into the World Golf
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, it's pretty It's pretty impressive, and I
Speaker 1: think she deserves a big chunk of credit for that too.
Speaker 1: I also think that the fascination with Charlie needs to
Speaker 1: like tone down a bit as a general media Like,
Speaker 1: I mean a Brennan breath said at best, like the
Speaker 1: PGA tour took a picture of his divid patterns and
Speaker 1: and Brennan's tweet underneath of it was like it just said,
Speaker 1: for fox sake, you know, is divid patterns. And it's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's like, again, he's never going to
Speaker 1: be his father. It's impossible, Like, just let the kid live.
Speaker 1: I get the interest, I understand it, and I'm all
Speaker 1: for it for a week at a time, but let's
Speaker 1: just chill. I mean, the kid is thirteen and he's
Speaker 1: like the hundred and fiftieth best player in Florida or
Speaker 1: something like. He's a very good player. He's got a
Speaker 1: great swing. But just I don't think we need to
Speaker 1: take pictures of his divid pattern. Okay, like, just take
Speaker 1: a breath. There's a there's a fine line between Stocking
Speaker 1: and thirteen year old and in wrist in Tiger Woods
Speaker 1: as a kid, Like, let's find that. Totally agree, that's
Speaker 1: well said. I mean, I was. I was explaining the
Speaker 1: interest in Charlie justsone who's not really a golf fan,
Speaker 1: and she said, isn't that like a lot of pressure?
Speaker 1: Why is he even doing that to a sudden to
Speaker 1: make him play in this event? And I said, well,
Speaker 1: you could try, and if your tiger, you can try
Speaker 1: and give your kids a normal childhood. But it's impossible anyway,
Speaker 1: and especially if one of them is into golf, Like like,
Speaker 1: there's no scenario where Charlie Woods can have a normal childhood.
Speaker 1: It's just not in the realm of of of human existence.
Speaker 1: So I think it makes sense they're kind of slowly
Speaker 1: introducing him to performing and and you know, obviously Tigers
Speaker 1: do interviews of this favorite people like Sanzy and it's
Speaker 1: still a pretty controlled environment, and it's kind of this
Speaker 1: this year by year evolution, and I don't think you
Speaker 1: can it just if Charlie wants to play golf, and
Speaker 1: clearly he does. I mean, unfortunately, his last name is
Speaker 1: Woods and people are going to pay attention. So I
Speaker 1: think they're doing a pretty nice job of bringing him
Speaker 1: along slowly, and it doesn't seem like he's out there
Speaker 1: grinding on them the big time junior golf circuit and
Speaker 1: he just kind of does this thing, and um, I
Speaker 1: think it's commendable. There's there's no right or wrong way
Speaker 1: to do it, but I appreciate the restraints, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm sure he Charlie could have already committed to
Speaker 1: Stanford by now if they wanted to make that announcement.
Speaker 1: You know, there's but they're just they're keeping things low key,
Speaker 1: and I think that's probably the right path forward. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's Tiger's fault. I think it's media.
Speaker 1: I mean, again, most of it is the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: And again, I they're just as a fine line. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm I understand he's your best player. I understand you
Speaker 1: get to promote him, But there's just a line the
Speaker 1: kids thirteen years old, like, let's just let's just chill
Speaker 1: out here for a minute. So, Matt, the reason we
Speaker 1: wanted to have you on, especially this week, and we
Speaker 1: are I think as as this Fire Drill podcast evolves,
Speaker 1: will have more and more of our our colleagues pop on,
Speaker 1: just keep things fresh and offer some different perspectives. But
Speaker 1: which is always a great thing. But um, you put
Speaker 1: out a tweet about the world ranking, you know, on
Speaker 1: the occasion of Dustin Johnson falling out the top forty
Speaker 1: in which was obviously a joke because there's not It's
Speaker 1: not thirty nine players on the planet better than Dustin, um,
Speaker 1: no matter how you slice it. But um, it created
Speaker 1: a lot of engagement, a lot of conversation. Why don't
Speaker 1: you recap your stance on the world ranking and then
Speaker 1: how things escalated from there. Well, it was just that
Speaker 1: I just you know, I tend to shoot first and
Speaker 1: then ask questions later. But you know, I saw a
Speaker 1: tweet out Dustin Johnson fell out of the top fourty
Speaker 1: according to the official World Golf Rankings, and it was like, um,
Speaker 1: well this just the optics of this just doesn't make
Speaker 1: any sense. You know, I Dustin Johnson is Dustin Johnson.
Speaker 1: I played with him at a dare manner. He is
Speaker 1: definitely better than then party players roaming the planet. And
Speaker 1: if they were official, if there's such a thing as
Speaker 1: the official World Golf Ranking and it's not, you know,
Speaker 1: and he's not in the top forty, there may be something.
Speaker 1: There may be a flaw on the system. And it
Speaker 1: was literally like, I doesn't this doesn't make any sense
Speaker 1: to me. And then you know, if you do some
Speaker 1: deep dive into the official, the official World Golf Ranking
Speaker 1: and you see who's on the board, and you see
Speaker 1: the criteria and you see that it you know, sort
Speaker 1: of got changed as of August that you know, continues
Speaker 1: to make it more difficult for you know, one could
Speaker 1: argue not just the live tour, but other tours to
Speaker 1: try to get points. The system may need, may need
Speaker 1: another overhaul. And you know, I listened to the Fried
Speaker 1: Eggs podcast. Garrett Morrison had a statistician Joe Lamanna, but
Speaker 1: even the way he pronounces his name on who was
Speaker 1: tremendous he was. It was a great podcast, um and
Speaker 1: it was very informative, and you know, I listened to
Speaker 1: it after I made it comes because a lot of people, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, escalated because you know, people getting personal and
Speaker 1: then accusing us of being shills for Live. Like I
Speaker 1: I that's easy to dismiss because we're obviously not that
Speaker 1: we are not. We are not pro We're not pro Live,
Speaker 1: and we're not pro tour. We're just pro truth and sensibility.
Speaker 1: That's the way I like to look at who we are.
Speaker 1: Our collection of perspectives offers just that, a collection of
Speaker 1: perspectives based on who we are, our sensibilities and are
Speaker 1: you know, sort of what we want for a game
Speaker 1: that we all love. We that that that's that's also
Speaker 1: at the core of who we are as a company
Speaker 1: is a is a collection of people who generally love
Speaker 1: this game of golf for wide variety of reasons. From
Speaker 1: the professional standpoint, to me, if you're going to have
Speaker 1: something called the Official World Golf Ranking and it's not
Speaker 1: ranking the world of competitive golf, then there's a problem
Speaker 1: with it. Now you can say is Live competitive? And
Speaker 1: now I think there's issues with there's there's These are
Speaker 1: two separate conversations. What is Live and what is their purpose?
Speaker 1: What is the Official World Golf Ranking and what is
Speaker 1: its purpose? What is the PGA Tour and what what
Speaker 1: role does the tour have in controlling all of this?
Speaker 1: And then then then there's extensions to that that I
Speaker 1: have issue with, and the tours control over media and
Speaker 1: the narrative around the sport, the lack of transparency around
Speaker 1: the game. We don't find out what why people get
Speaker 1: fined or or or suspended. You know, all of that,
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot to unpack. And so as it
Speaker 1: released the official World Golf Ranking, I think you know
Speaker 1: and live and whether or not you know, I think
Speaker 1: both both need to move in order to make this
Speaker 1: a system that works for the greater good of the
Speaker 1: game and competitive golf. Uh. And that's just what I
Speaker 1: believe and that you know, that's it's you know, it
Speaker 1: is complicated, and it's not easy to answer or to
Speaker 1: come up with the scenario that accounts for all of this,
Speaker 1: But I think making you know, the criteria of having
Speaker 1: a cut seventy two holes for majority of events, having
Speaker 1: a way to peer, having field of seventy five or more,
Speaker 1: have an open qualifying process, you can go through each
Speaker 1: one of those and and and argue the merits of
Speaker 1: each one of those as it relates to the Official
Speaker 1: World Golfering but at the end of the day, out
Speaker 1: of the gates based on who's on the board and
Speaker 1: the fact that it calls itself o w g R
Speaker 1: Official World Golf Ranking, and you've got a bunch of
Speaker 1: really good players who are who are falling down that
Speaker 1: ranking system because they're not playing in an event that
Speaker 1: Matt's Matt's Dow's criteria. I think there there's there's issues
Speaker 1: to take with a lot of it and all of
Speaker 1: it and on both sides. Yeah, well, I mean that's
Speaker 1: a good overview. I mean, I think the strong reactions
Speaker 1: to your tweet, it's just part of a larger issue
Speaker 1: in modern life and especially social media, Like there's you
Speaker 1: have to pick a side, you have to pick a
Speaker 1: side immediately, and you have to defend it to the
Speaker 1: death no matter what. And um so it's like when
Speaker 1: live has been so polarizing, I think all of us
Speaker 1: are larger. We are trying to play it down the
Speaker 1: middle where we you know, I've said this before. I
Speaker 1: don't know if on this podcast or elsewhere, but my
Speaker 1: idea of balance is to be critical of both sides,
Speaker 1: and I think I've done that of the tour and
Speaker 1: of live. I've also celebrated there, uh their breakthroughs and
Speaker 1: and they're they're good ideas, but um, it's just like
Speaker 1: if if, if you don't, if you don't stake out
Speaker 1: a very black and white position, it confuses people, I think.
Speaker 1: And so the fact that that we're trying to see
Speaker 1: the nuance and were trying to be balanced, um and
Speaker 1: almost like upsets folks because they just they want to
Speaker 1: know which campion are you on my side or the
Speaker 1: other side? It's us versus them, And that doesn't leave
Speaker 1: a lot of room for for subtlety and for discussions.
Speaker 1: So that that was just the latest example, I think
Speaker 1: the very strong reaction to your tweet and and the
Speaker 1: accusations that you know, we're working for a live which
Speaker 1: is obviously ridiculous for those who bother to listen to
Speaker 1: podcasts and read the stories and don't just live in
Speaker 1: the twitter sphere. But I'd love to hear Ryan's take two.
Speaker 1: I mean, and and I know I've heard bits and
Speaker 1: pieces of it, but as it relates to the other
Speaker 1: two and and the other thing is is I generally
Speaker 1: and in the corner of the little guy, the dreamers
Speaker 1: and that's you know that that's another podcast I'm working on.
Speaker 1: That's in defense of a tweet I sent out or
Speaker 1: I was on a podcast and it got stripped out,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna do a club pro podcast and and
Speaker 1: it's and you know, I'm dropping that next week. But
Speaker 1: I wanted to hear Ryan's perspective on all of this
Speaker 1: as a really official World Golf ranking and and and
Speaker 1: the trickle down effect of what the new criterias is
Speaker 1: going to have on other tours beyond Live. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of guys, you know, a live
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty obvious eventually needs to get it,
Speaker 1: whether they have to adjust or meet in the middle,
Speaker 1: I mean it. We talked the three of us talked
Speaker 1: at on a couple of weeks ago. It's like, if
Speaker 1: if camp Smith falls down, the Dustin is a great example,
Speaker 1: but camp Smith nowadays is even a better example. It's
Speaker 1: like he's gonna eventually fall down the rankings. Now he
Speaker 1: just wants so on a O W g R tour,
Speaker 1: But like if he falls down, then it just becomes
Speaker 1: a joke at some point, like you know, you're not
Speaker 1: better than if the if he falls down to seventh,
Speaker 1: the sixth ranked guy knows he's not better than the
Speaker 1: camp Smith and it becomes a joke as it's you know,
Speaker 1: slowly becoming so they have to adjust. But as an
Speaker 1: overall thing, you know, I mean the guys on the
Speaker 1: Asian Tour, um guys on the European Tour, and you're
Speaker 1: seeing top guys like rom talking, uh, you know, talk
Speaker 1: about it. I mean Travis Smith one on the one
Speaker 1: on the Asian Tour and got I think four point
Speaker 1: four seven points or maybe it was Andy who won.
Speaker 1: And it's like it's, you know, everyone thinks it's a
Speaker 1: joke at this point, or there's at least very big frustrations,
Speaker 1: right like these guys like Travis Smith has tried to
Speaker 1: make it here and you know hasn't got through Q school.
Speaker 1: Asian Tour is a place to play and if he
Speaker 1: plays well, he should be rewarded for it. And um,
Speaker 1: you know if the with the new changes to O
Speaker 1: W G r uh not giving as many points to
Speaker 1: these foreign tours, you know, it's it's tough and and
Speaker 1: and I think it hurts the world game in general
Speaker 1: because maybe it was inflated over and the tour. But
Speaker 1: I mean Tom Kim is a great exam ample. Tom
Speaker 1: Kim became a known name because of O. W. Jerr.
Speaker 1: He got in the top hundred playing overseas and playing
Speaker 1: on the Korean Tour and playing on the Asian Tour
Speaker 1: and getting in the top hundred in the world, then
Speaker 1: eventually coming over here and now he's a huge part
Speaker 1: of what the PGA Tour is doing right now if
Speaker 1: he is facing the same points problems that the players are. Now,
Speaker 1: do we ever hear of Tom Kim? You know, he
Speaker 1: would have never It's almost impossible to get in the
Speaker 1: top hunter playing the Asian Tour right now, so you know,
Speaker 1: and and these guys Michael and Allen have talked about
Speaker 1: it more. I mean like it was, it was brought
Speaker 1: up to it was made up basically. So is there
Speaker 1: just a better exploded all together and just find a
Speaker 1: better way, or as Michael has said, is it just
Speaker 1: get rid of it and figure out a way to
Speaker 1: let the majors just decide for themselves. What are the
Speaker 1: parameters to get in the four Majors? I mean, all
Speaker 1: the rain kings are are created by humans, So whether
Speaker 1: it's the Sagaran rankings or it's data golf, or it's
Speaker 1: the World Rankings and the official World Rankings. Someone has
Speaker 1: to decide what's going to go into the the algorithm,
Speaker 1: and there's debates and there's public comments, and there's votes
Speaker 1: and there's meetings. Ultimately it comes down to humans making
Speaker 1: those decisions. And that's all three of those rankings are
Speaker 1: are different. They they reach a snapshot of who's playing
Speaker 1: the best in any given moment, but they have their
Speaker 1: own biases and flaws and so, um, it's just because
Speaker 1: the ranking exists in one way, it doesn't mean it's
Speaker 1: the right way. It can always be tweaked and improved.
Speaker 1: In the history of the w g rs are always
Speaker 1: changing it, and so maybe they the pendulum swung too
Speaker 1: far and they do need to tweak it. So just
Speaker 1: because it is doesn't mean it's the right way. People
Speaker 1: kind of be like, well, that's it's the ranking, that's
Speaker 1: what it is. Well, it's it's changeable, it's fixable, it's tweakable,
Speaker 1: and um, so you know what we're gonna say, Mike,
Speaker 1: as Alan and I and others have said many times,
Speaker 1: it was a mark getting ploy by a very clever man,
Speaker 1: Mark McCormick, who was the founder of IMG to get
Speaker 1: his international players into events in the first place. Dean
Speaker 1: Beaman explained that to me the other day. So like
Speaker 1: we know why the American Constitution was written and it
Speaker 1: was sound, the reason why this thing started in the
Speaker 1: first place is not sound. And then add to Allan's point,
Speaker 1: uh with all you know, I don't know what the
Speaker 1: numbers are, but you know, it seems like there's two numbers,
Speaker 1: a dot, and then many decimal places after that. It
Speaker 1: makes it sound like it's scientific. As Alan just pointed out,
Speaker 1: there's no science behind it. And just as you can't
Speaker 1: compare Walter Johnson and Bob Gibson, you can't compare a
Speaker 1: wide open golf course uh is somewhere in Asia with
Speaker 1: you know something that they're playing let's say Colonial with
Speaker 1: the rough up. It's folly. The whole thing is folly.
Speaker 1: And now Davis said half as a joke, but maybe
Speaker 1: half seriously, just get rid of it all together. It
Speaker 1: really does not serve her purpose. It's really just on
Speaker 1: the basis alone, it's impossible. It is impossible to rank
Speaker 1: players playing all over the world in all sorts of
Speaker 1: different conditions under uh under with different quality of fields.
Speaker 1: It's an impossible task. It's a fool's errand and I
Speaker 1: don't really see how it's serving golf at all. And
Speaker 1: I think that the live PGA Tour event and if
Speaker 1: we're getting paid by Saudi rab and the Lift Tour,
Speaker 1: Matt's holding out checks from me. So if we got
Speaker 1: any checks from the Lift Tour, Matt, I'll send my address.
Speaker 1: Because everyone says we're chills, but Ryan's eager to sell out.
Speaker 1: But no, yeah, I'm totally fine with selling out. I
Speaker 1: mean if they have Monday qualifies and they're like two
Speaker 1: million anyway, Uh, the the I mean the pettiness on
Speaker 1: both sides of this fight. Obviously the Lift Tours. But
Speaker 1: if you're the PGA Tour and and you sit on
Speaker 1: that board of the o W g R Pelly and
Speaker 1: and and the PGA Tour and can't look at that
Speaker 1: without any who you're on, what side you're on, and
Speaker 1: know that you're a biased ranking system, then then we
Speaker 1: need someone else to to take care of the official rankings.
Speaker 1: Like you can't just sit down there and say hey,
Speaker 1: here's all the people and like they shouldn't get any
Speaker 1: Now what if they adjust, are you still gonna say
Speaker 1: they're not gonna. They shouldn't get any because again, the
Speaker 1: pettiness makes me concerned about OW. It makes me concerned
Speaker 1: about the future of golf in general, but just pertaining
Speaker 1: the o w g R. If you if you sit
Speaker 1: on the board of the o w g R and
Speaker 1: look across at the field of the Live Tour and
Speaker 1: don't think that they should maybe they need to adjust.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they don't need to adjust. If you
Speaker 1: look at that field and don't think there should be
Speaker 1: some way that they are included in the rankings, then
Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. You're you're not
Speaker 1: looking at objectively. I don't like the Live Tour, I've
Speaker 1: said it many times, but they have a good feel
Speaker 1: and they probably deserve some world ranking points however that
Speaker 1: comes to be. And if you can't think that, then
Speaker 1: you're not thinking straight. Like if you're accusing me of
Speaker 1: being a live uh shill, you know you're being a
Speaker 1: PGA Tour shill or whatever she'll or you hate Live
Speaker 1: she'll because I don't like Live, I despise the political
Speaker 1: I've despised the format, all that stuff. It still includes
Speaker 1: some of the best golfers in the world. There is
Speaker 1: no argument. You can't argue that. And so to say
Speaker 1: that they shouldn't get some based on that, on how
Speaker 1: many holes they play in all that, it's ridiculous. Well
Speaker 1: to say they can't play on the PGA Tour and
Speaker 1: you can't get points, you can't like how many more
Speaker 1: like and we're on the board where I'm on the board,
Speaker 1: Jamon hands off the point, like how many layers of
Speaker 1: like dysfunction do you have to reveal before you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe this isn't probably the right system either, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I do have I do have some
Speaker 1: reporting on this because I was speaking on the phone
Speaker 1: with a member of the o w g R board.
Speaker 1: You know, it's the it's the inner sanctum. They don't
Speaker 1: want their name used publicly. But this person said that
Speaker 1: despite all the mud slinging and the name calling, there's
Speaker 1: actually a lot of communication between the institution of the
Speaker 1: o w g R and Live Golf, and things are happening,
Speaker 1: and um he he didn't think it was going to
Speaker 1: be resolved publicly by the time of the Masters, but
Speaker 1: it sounds like shortly they're after. I think there's gonna
Speaker 1: be some there will be some changes whether and I
Speaker 1: get the feeling it's on both both from Live more
Speaker 1: from the O w g R and how they're gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna deal with Live and that some sort of
Speaker 1: solution is being brokered. And then it sounds like the
Speaker 1: conversations are productive. And you know, he said, the institution
Speaker 1: is succeeding in that w R has criteria that have
Speaker 1: comment periods, They have conversations with many tours around the world,
Speaker 1: and it's a there's give and take about what these
Speaker 1: tours can do to qualify what what And he said
Speaker 1: it's no different. And so even though I don't think
Speaker 1: Live on Live once it publicly is that it's a
Speaker 1: closed shop and it's say they're aligned against us and
Speaker 1: they're screwing us over that, the reality is that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of communication going on and that OB Jr.
Speaker 1: Is trying to find a solution. Now this this was one,
Speaker 1: this is one member of the board. I didn't um,
Speaker 1: but I have no reason to doubt what he's telling me.
Speaker 1: And it gives a little context to this. So we'll
Speaker 1: see how it plays out. But um, I don't think
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to do some you know what a
Speaker 1: year from now, I don't think we're still gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about this. There will have been some sort of
Speaker 1: meeting of the minds and and one step towards kind
Speaker 1: of reunifying a fractured professional game. And that that's a
Speaker 1: very big statement now, and because if they actually do
Speaker 1: go down that path, then that is the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: acknowledging that lived tour is legitimate. And that's been very
Speaker 1: hard for them to say. And to Ryan's point about
Speaker 1: just how petty and crazy the whole thing is, No,
Speaker 1: this really didn't get much focused this year. But the
Speaker 1: idea that the RNA, which presents itself and its championship
Speaker 1: with a great deal of confidence, disinvited Greg Norman from
Speaker 1: its champions dinner. He is a former champions one of
Speaker 1: the thing twice and now we can't come to your
Speaker 1: dinner just because you don't like what he's doing politically,
Speaker 1: and he can't play in your you know, your four
Speaker 1: whole exhibition. I mean that in itself showed such an
Speaker 1: intense level of pettiness that it's, uh, Bobby Jones will
Speaker 1: be spinning in his grave. So you know, to the
Speaker 1: question of you know, what's what's the Master's gonna do
Speaker 1: or what the what's the u s you're gonna do?
Speaker 1: If they want to be true to their actual convention
Speaker 1: conviction convictions, they have to invite anybody who qualifies. They
Speaker 1: can't possibly even think about blocking somebody because of their
Speaker 1: association with Live Tour. It's not like they're Unhel Cabrera
Speaker 1: in jail. They've just decided to play professional golf elsewhere
Speaker 1: for a startup. To use Hudson Swofford's term, which was
Speaker 1: kind of rich, but he's like, I just changed jobs.
Speaker 1: I went to a startup. Like, well, it's not it's
Speaker 1: not two guys in the in their garage. You know this.
Speaker 1: This is a well capitalized startup. But um yeah, I agree,
Speaker 1: And we've kicked this around before. There's no way Augusta
Speaker 1: is not going to invite people are otherwise qualified. That's
Speaker 1: not going to happen. Dustin will be there, cam Smith
Speaker 1: will be there, Phil will be there. But where it
Speaker 1: does get interesting is if you look at the world
Speaker 1: rankings right now, there's there's a handful of Live guys
Speaker 1: who were in the mid forties of the o w
Speaker 1: g R Top fifty at the end of this year.
Speaker 1: In two weeks get into the masters and Taylor Gooch
Speaker 1: is one. He's in the lightning rod all year. Um
Speaker 1: Kevin Naw you know, one of the original kind of
Speaker 1: lived defectors, Brian Coke Wrack. There's there's there's a there's
Speaker 1: a few guys, oh Harold Varner. They're hanging on by
Speaker 1: their fingernales that top fifty spot. And how the math
Speaker 1: works out in the next couple of weeks is gonna
Speaker 1: be fascinating. And um, so I don't think that there
Speaker 1: obviously not headliners, but any of those guys are good
Speaker 1: enough to win a Master's if they're in the field potentially,
Speaker 1: and so if they if they slip out of the
Speaker 1: top fifty, um, that's gonna be a big talking point,
Speaker 1: and that that will put a little pressure on the
Speaker 1: Green Jackets because um they do have the ability to
Speaker 1: invite anybody they want beyond um that that top fifties.
Speaker 1: So we'll see how that plays out. That to me
Speaker 1: is actually really interesting piece of it. The big guys
Speaker 1: are going to be there, they've were in their right.
Speaker 1: Fred really is not going to stand in the schoolhouse
Speaker 1: door and prevent them from from coming coming, you know,
Speaker 1: onto the property. That's just not how happening. But guys
Speaker 1: who you know, the Masters can always sold by the criteria.
Speaker 1: The criteria, we're not going to change it. Then there's
Speaker 1: gonna be some live casualties. And that's a little more interesting.
Speaker 1: A byproduct of these guys who are in there early
Speaker 1: to mid forties who may have a hard time competing
Speaker 1: against these guys who are coming up in the early
Speaker 1: twenties and are kind of lost with trying to figure
Speaker 1: out a career path is a byproduct of the tour
Speaker 1: not moving that age from the Champions Tour from fifty
Speaker 1: down to whatever, maybe forty five or forty four, and
Speaker 1: giving guys this tweener path between either staying and competing
Speaker 1: on the tour or going to what would be a
Speaker 1: Champions Tour and not evolving with sort of the the younger,
Speaker 1: the youth movement of the game. Again, this all it
Speaker 1: keeps layering and layering around, like of what else was
Speaker 1: Hendrik Stenson or Paul Casey or Lee West, what were
Speaker 1: these guys supposed to do? Just not play for five
Speaker 1: years and just you know, pack it up. Like again,
Speaker 1: it's just the whole thing is fascinating to me, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and and your world ranking the board of
Speaker 1: the world, ranking the rules of what you can and
Speaker 1: can't do, what is ranked or not ranked, raising the
Speaker 1: price of Q school in the middle of all of
Speaker 1: this craziness that gets you under the corn Farry Tour,
Speaker 1: which means to me, again, the richest kids make it
Speaker 1: and not the best kids. And then what becomes the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour five years, ten years from now if we
Speaker 1: keep making it harder, more expensive to try to make
Speaker 1: it to the tour like it, you know, And this
Speaker 1: is why, this is why I think Ryan has has
Speaker 1: built such an incredible following based on his his focus
Speaker 1: on what we deemed dreamers, and why we're going to
Speaker 1: launch this series called The Grind, showcasing what it's like
Speaker 1: for these people out there on these you know, on
Speaker 1: this adventurous journey to try to make it. It's it
Speaker 1: all feeds down into that, right like that. That's why
Speaker 1: I say I'm not pro live, I'm sort of anti
Speaker 1: tour and if and if this disruption needed to happen,
Speaker 1: in which we're able to, you know, pull back the
Speaker 1: cover on the control the tour has had on professional
Speaker 1: golf and the monopolistic control over professional golf that in
Speaker 1: itself is worth rooting for. To me, media rights, you know,
Speaker 1: the narratives, and I use that example all the time.
Speaker 1: Rex Hoggard is a really good reporter. He's a quality guy.
Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with Rex Haggard, but on
Speaker 1: that court case in Northern California when it was lived
Speaker 1: players versus the PGA Tour and Rex Hagger's reporting live
Speaker 1: outside that courtroom wearing a PGA Tour logo on his shirt,
Speaker 1: That to me is a big part of the problem.
Speaker 1: And he was doing that without irony. We were supposed to,
Speaker 1: as consumers of the news of the game on the
Speaker 1: golf channel, supposed to, uh, you know, take that in
Speaker 1: without irony or or you know, understanding of the situation.
Speaker 1: It's crazy to me. Did you guys happen to see
Speaker 1: this Bob Riley from PNC Bank get on with the
Speaker 1: Dan Hicks today. He was wearing a blue shirt with
Speaker 1: no logo on it. I'm like, that's shocker. You're supposed
Speaker 1: to be selling p NC. It was kind of delightful,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't believe it. I personally love the CEO interview.
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite parts Arey telecast. It's so
Speaker 1: crazy and it's so bad it's good, like I look
Speaker 1: forward to it and was good today. The first company
Speaker 1: that goes, you know, I'm not gonna put like if
Speaker 1: just say, hey, we're gonna skip the CEO interview to
Speaker 1: spare all of you, like it's gonna be the biggest
Speaker 1: thing on Twitter ever. You know, like the CEO of
Speaker 1: PNC knows you're gonna be bored shitless if he comes here,
Speaker 1: so we're gonna skip that interview, and everybody's gonna go,
Speaker 1: I'm going I'm switching all my money to PNC right now.
Speaker 1: I think if the CEO came on and said, I know,
Speaker 1: the last thing you want to do is here from me,
Speaker 1: So I am going to take my microphone off, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get up off this set. I'm gonna go back
Speaker 1: where I belong, which is in the corporate hospitality tent
Speaker 1: with all of my top clients, and I'm gonna leave
Speaker 1: this to the professionals and they can communicate to you
Speaker 1: how good we are at what we do and how
Speaker 1: much money we're spending to support this tour. Did you
Speaker 1: hear oticas p NC shout out at the end, That
Speaker 1: shows you what a hard invitation this thing is to
Speaker 1: get She went directly into the camera with it. She
Speaker 1: wasn't just like in passing. She was like turned to
Speaker 1: the camera and was like thank you to p n c. Oh, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: there was there was. You can probably get into this
Speaker 1: field anytime. It was one of the greats of all time.
Speaker 1: Not to take anyway from Anka, but she does have
Speaker 1: that burnhard, longer Germanic kind of quality. Of course she's
Speaker 1: a Swede. But when she talks about her heart doing
Speaker 1: this and the tears behind her glasses, but in that
Speaker 1: dead flat on away, it just actually makes me laugh.
Speaker 1: It was the most emotional moment of my entire life.
Speaker 1: She said, this was really kids, like just laughing and giggling,
Speaker 1: and she's like it was. The kid was great. We
Speaker 1: had a lot of swag. Man, he's walking in Potts
Speaker 1: wearing Jordan's I mean, shout out to Will Sorenstam who
Speaker 1: made it fun for sure. Well, another reason there should
Speaker 1: be an agement on the PC. Okay, I support it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when when you're a grandfather you shouldn't be able to
Speaker 1: play with your child like you know. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know if cast has any kids or not, but
Speaker 1: it's getting it's getting. That's what I'm susy. Any board
Speaker 1: that has any input into the greater scheme of like
Speaker 1: the game of golf from a pressure professional standpoint, that
Speaker 1: doesn't have Ryan French on that board, I'm not for
Speaker 1: it anymore. I'm gonna draw a hard line on if
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be the guy, I'm gonna be the guy
Speaker 1: who tells Charlie Woods's he's peaked. I was like, unfortunately, Charlie,
Speaker 1: if you've over, I would give you that. I would
Speaker 1: let you have that, make that help, make that like
Speaker 1: you should be on the board of the O W
Speaker 1: g R as a kind of a face and a
Speaker 1: and a and a and a supporter of all the
Speaker 1: other tours out there, making sure you know, doing what
Speaker 1: you know. Probably Keith Kelly tried to do, but probably
Speaker 1: I got voted, got got out voted on the board
Speaker 1: by all the others. But I mean, I just think
Speaker 1: you gotta like, why don't we go around and collect
Speaker 1: a little bit of perspective from a variety of different
Speaker 1: entry points instead of just like the Boys Club that's
Speaker 1: in control of the the the upper echelon of golf, Like,
Speaker 1: how was there not players on the board of the
Speaker 1: o w g R like a little possible, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it would be nice if not every important decision in
Speaker 1: golf was made in the grill room at seminole. Right,
Speaker 1: we need we need a few different perspective bit of
Speaker 1: you know, like to be a former player could get
Speaker 1: on the old w g R. Yeah, and a foremer
Speaker 1: player would make sense. It was like Nick Price going
Speaker 1: to the U s g A like that that made
Speaker 1: I like that, you know, Jason Gore before him. Certainly
Speaker 1: having having guys who've who have been between the ropes
Speaker 1: is valuable. I agree Ryan French for president. I put
Speaker 1: Ryan on the Empreme Court. I mean, the why stop
Speaker 1: with golf? Like we need some Midwestern sensibilities from down
Speaker 1: home Alpina wisdom. And I like Mike Juan, by the way,
Speaker 1: I think Mike Wan. I have a so much hope
Speaker 1: and faith in Mike Juan and what he could potentially
Speaker 1: do now that he's where he's at at the U
Speaker 1: s g A. I mean, I'm hoping and praying that
Speaker 1: he's going to have you know, uh, Fred pur Paul
Speaker 1: like these like there is there are these glimmers of
Speaker 1: hope around and and I've and I've got a lot
Speaker 1: of respect for Seth Wall there. You know, come on, guys, like,
Speaker 1: let's let's make sure that this game continues to evolve
Speaker 1: in ways that does make people feel a little uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: It's you know, the people who feel a little uncomfortable
Speaker 1: for where the game is going should feel a little uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: We should be comfortable in a variety of people feeling
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with the direction of the game. Otherwise it's not
Speaker 1: going in the right direction. Mike Juan very, I mean,
Speaker 1: I agree, Matt great and uh I saw him in
Speaker 1: a very small setting. Uh at the symmetric what was
Speaker 1: the symetric now absent tour, uh tour championship. Ten ten
Speaker 1: women got their LPGA cards and their families. You know,
Speaker 1: there's fifty people in the in the room, and uh,
Speaker 1: he made a great speech and a ton of respect.
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, uh, there's gonna be veterans out
Speaker 1: there like Christy Kerr, who you know, are gonna squeeze
Speaker 1: out of the range. And he's like, get your ass
Speaker 1: up there and push her to the side and tell
Speaker 1: her you get enough. Well, I mean, it was a
Speaker 1: very very cool speech and a ton of respect and
Speaker 1: went around and talk to all ten of the girls
Speaker 1: that had women that had gotten their card, and it
Speaker 1: was very much like, hey, you belong. You're part of
Speaker 1: this tour too, and you know I want to hear
Speaker 1: your voice as much as you know. I know he
Speaker 1: said what he was supposed to say, but it just
Speaker 1: felt very sincere. I was mad respect for him, and
Speaker 1: I agree in the position that he is. I he
Speaker 1: seems to be outspoken and a like a born leader,
Speaker 1: so I hope he can can say the things that
Speaker 1: that some people don't want to hear. I love that. Well,
Speaker 1: this is a busy week at the fire Pit Collective,
Speaker 1: so just to give listeners a little rundown on what
Speaker 1: they can look forward to, UM, Michael and I and
Speaker 1: Jeff Ogilvie taped a sort of a preview podcast about
Speaker 1: the sand Belt Invitational, which is teeing off Sunday afternoon
Speaker 1: in the US Monday morning in Melbourne. One of the
Speaker 1: really cool events in golf. I'll be writing about it
Speaker 1: every day for five Collective dot com. We have Benny West,
Speaker 1: Scott and Colton Nedler on the ground in Melbourne. They're
Speaker 1: gonna be doing all kinds of cool social cuts and
Speaker 1: and bring the tournament to life. When it's over, we're
Speaker 1: gonna get Jeff and hopefully the winner on for a pod. So, uh,
Speaker 1: that's happening. We have needed fourth our new podcast which
Speaker 1: launched a month ago, hopefully the Olive and listening to that.
Speaker 1: We have a blockbuster guests for that drops every Wednesday.
Speaker 1: Michael and I are very excited about that. We um,
Speaker 1: it's already been taped, it's being edited, and it was.
Speaker 1: It was a really lovely interesting conversation. So can I
Speaker 1: just say, guys, hate to interrupt them, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I am loving this podcast and you guys and the
Speaker 1: guests you've had on so far, Mike Mills, Michael Murphy,
Speaker 1: Brando Shamble, I mean everyone. I mean, it is as
Speaker 1: good as a golf podcast gets, in my opinion, you know, thoughtful, intel,
Speaker 1: alegent perspectives plus another fourth and the conversations that are
Speaker 1: happening and the stories that are being told, it's can't miss.
Speaker 1: It's incredible. It's well, you're nice to say, mad and
Speaker 1: I I really do feel that way. And I think, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, for those who have not had a chance
Speaker 1: to hear Jeff, he is absolutely one of the most
Speaker 1: thoughtful intelligent, insightful people in all of golf. Those who
Speaker 1: covered Jeff when he was in his playing prime would
Speaker 1: have would have known that for a while. Um, but
Speaker 1: this is another chance to see just a very intelligent, thoughtful,
Speaker 1: analytical person at work. And you know, and uh Allen's
Speaker 1: works uh literally speaks speaks for itself. So it's been
Speaker 1: it's been great. And then just a dovetail on on
Speaker 1: that one thought. You know, we've spent a lot of
Speaker 1: this time together and all of us who are interested
Speaker 1: in professional golf sort of consumed with the pj A Tour,
Speaker 1: US Live. It's certainly has been the biggest story of
Speaker 1: the year. But when you get to that need of fourth,
Speaker 1: it's just a welcome departure from all of that because
Speaker 1: we're not going down the road. It's not it's not
Speaker 1: like we're not trying to or trying to. It's just
Speaker 1: that we get somebody on there and the conversation goes
Speaker 1: where it goes. Like we had read Brandle on the
Speaker 1: other day, and Brandall talked about the golf swing because
Speaker 1: that's sort of like his entry point to the game
Speaker 1: in the first place. Uh So it's kind of a
Speaker 1: nice break, Yes, and accurate and and part of it.
Speaker 1: And you know, when I started at the Golf Channel,
Speaker 1: Kelly Tilman, rich Lerner and Brando Shambly identified themselves early
Speaker 1: on as people who were willing to give me time
Speaker 1: and serve as a mentor in terms of how to
Speaker 1: do TV because there's not a lot of you don't
Speaker 1: go through a training program of like, okay, this is
Speaker 1: how you do TV. They just like they put a
Speaker 1: microphone on you, you put on makeup and you're on TV.
Speaker 1: You're supposed to you're supposed to sort of understand what
Speaker 1: you're supposed to do, where to look, and it gets
Speaker 1: very confusing, very fast. And it's a it's a it
Speaker 1: talking about a pressure cooker. It happens when that red
Speaker 1: light goes on. And Brandle and we I've gotten a
Speaker 1: no Brandle, you know, outside of work, our wives are
Speaker 1: are very good friends. And it was so cool too,
Speaker 1: you know, show that side of him to more people
Speaker 1: than just the live from side of him in which,
Speaker 1: as he says, he gets paid to sort of explain
Speaker 1: the why and and he gets paid to, you know,
Speaker 1: to have an opinion on all of that. But there
Speaker 1: is this really really cool side of Brandle that. I
Speaker 1: think that's part of what got exposed in that podcast
Speaker 1: was just a general love for the game, for the
Speaker 1: literature around the game, the study of the swing and
Speaker 1: the game. His his admiration and respect for you know,
Speaker 1: Jeff and his place in the game, and that went
Speaker 1: both ways, and his respect and appreciation for other journalists.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's a it's a side of
Speaker 1: Brandle that a lot a lot of people get to see.
Speaker 1: And I hope people are able to either see or
Speaker 1: listen to that because it's important. He he's an important
Speaker 1: piece of this puzzle that that makes up perspectives that
Speaker 1: talk about the game, and he is willing to say
Speaker 1: what he you know, feels, and it's it comes from
Speaker 1: well researched you know, analytics or or or thoughts, and
Speaker 1: I just think it's in that in itself is why
Speaker 1: this this podcast matters. And I can't wait for this
Speaker 1: week's guest because I know it is and it's it's
Speaker 1: he's one of my favorites. Yeah yeah, well thanks thanks
Speaker 1: for all that. And um brand my my new favorite
Speaker 1: new phrase. I was texting back forth with Greg Norman
Speaker 1: was so surprised some people, but and he concluded one
Speaker 1: of his texts by saying, thanks for being a solid
Speaker 1: part of the gulf ecosystem. And it makes me laugh.
Speaker 1: It feels like a team of consultants came up with that.
Speaker 1: But Brandle is a solid part of the golf ecosystem,
Speaker 1: and it was it was fun to have um and
Speaker 1: I think we can agree that. Imaginella, Ryan French, Michael
Speaker 1: Bamberger are very solid parts of the golf ecosystem that
Speaker 1: everyone will agree with that. I'm pretty positive. Quick quick
Speaker 1: nod to a to a member, a long time member
Speaker 1: the golf ecosystem, Rog the course whisper had his final
Speaker 1: lament this week. Oh yeah, he's been our lives, all
Speaker 1: our lives. Uh, I love him so anyway, Yeah, he
Speaker 1: represents a nonchalance that golf needs more of. Yes, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, I don't know if Roger is a
Speaker 1: great analyst or not. I just he just fun hang
Speaker 1: out with. Like I'm in my living room, you know,
Speaker 1: I was actually doing a little household project and it's
Speaker 1: just like I love to listen to Rod. It's just
Speaker 1: like it's like like talking on the phone with a
Speaker 1: buddy because it's a one way conversation. He's only talking
Speaker 1: to you, but there is it is. It's sad to
Speaker 1: see him go. I'm hopefully he'll find another another landing spot.
Speaker 1: But um yeah, I think thanks for the tip of
Speaker 1: the cap because Roger's a very solid part of the
Speaker 1: Gulf ecosystem and maybe a future need a fourth. I mean,
Speaker 1: you guys need a fourth on a regular basis. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe Rog will make his way into the into the
Speaker 1: coming in smoking heaters like just Dart after dark. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Ryan's still trying to get you know, William Morris to
Speaker 1: sponsor need a fourth or fire drill or something. I
Speaker 1: don't think it could happen, Ryan, I'm sorry, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's Lucky tried to jewel last week. Yeah, that Matt.
Speaker 1: What's that thing in San Francisco where they go in
Speaker 1: the tents and they go away for a while. It's
Speaker 1: like Limium Grove. I knew you'd come up with it,
Speaker 1: right down street from the Alistair McKenzie and Northwood golf Course. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: Roger goes to that one year. You telling me about
Speaker 1: you know some musician who was in the tent next
Speaker 1: to him, and it was Bob Weir from you know
Speaker 1: the dead or something. My dad actually, as an in
Speaker 1: here for Bechtel Power, had a job of going in
Speaker 1: and working on the infrastructure of Bohemian Growth. He couldn't
Speaker 1: talk about it, you know, I've got to ask him
Speaker 1: about it, um my dad. Um, like Ryan's father has dementia,
Speaker 1: but still is able to recall, uh in great detail,
Speaker 1: some of the stories of some of the jobs he's
Speaker 1: worked on. Um. It's a short term memory that obviously
Speaker 1: is really really, really troubled. But he had he had
Speaker 1: a very interesting time with the Bohemian Grove. And I
Speaker 1: actually got to go in one day with him as
Speaker 1: a young kid, and I can remember just the redwoods,
Speaker 1: and that's sort of the darkness that was created by
Speaker 1: the Redwoods and stories of guys just you know, you
Speaker 1: can kind of pee anywhere. It's like, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's quite it's quite as quite a quite a a
Speaker 1: fraternity of stuff. God only knows what happens at the
Speaker 1: Bohemian Grove. Well, another member of another attendee of Bohemian
Speaker 1: Grove is Michael Murphy A need a fourth podcast guests,
Speaker 1: So it all comes full circle. Um, all right, well,
Speaker 1: let's end this fire drill um shout out to Um,
Speaker 1: Roger Malpi and Charlie Woods and VJ Seeing and everyone
Speaker 1: in between for enlightning this conversation. We do these every
Speaker 1: stunt Oh, yes, Michael Ellen oh and yes, uh Ellen.
Speaker 1: Easy to get sidetracked. Um, So we do this every Sunday.
Speaker 1: Hopefully you guys have cut onto that. It's it's an
Speaker 1: ongoing conversation that will never end, um hopefully, and uh
Speaker 1: we're back again next week. It's going to kind of
Speaker 1: be the end of the year. I think, Michael and Ryan,
Speaker 1: I think are we cooked up a plan to do
Speaker 1: kind of our low key year and review and talk
Speaker 1: about our favorite moments and the biggest stories, and that
Speaker 1: that should be a fun one as well. So we
Speaker 1: appreciate your loyalty and fidelity as listeners. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of golf podcasts out there. Thanks for listening to ours.
Speaker 1: For Matt Ganella and Ryan French and Michael Bamberger. I'm
Speaker 1: Alan Schipnick. This was a fire drill podcast, and uh
Speaker 1: that's it. Thanks. I bet big and I played the Win,
Speaker 1: made a fortune, win my shop game. Man. I ran
Speaker 1: the table, never thought I could fall down. The winter
Speaker 1: time hit me like a cannon. The ball and now
Speaker 1: I can't shake this losing the streak. Every road I
Speaker 1: take is a dead end stream. I got thoughts in
Speaker 1: my head. Can't get him out, Trying not to think
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about. I got thoughts in my head.
Speaker 1: I can't get him out, trying not to think what
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about.