WEBVTT - Personal Standards with Darian Harvin 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.270 Welcome to Deeply Well. 0:00:06.970 --> 0:00:09.830 This show is a soft place to land on your journey, 0:00:10.510 --> 0:00:13.850 a space where we explore what it truly means to 0:00:13.950 --> 0:00:19.009 live well from the inside out, not perfectly, but honestly, 0:00:19.829 --> 0:00:23.569 with all the complexity, the paradox, the beauty, and the 0:00:23.710 --> 0:00:27.340 wonder of being human. Because in a world that is 0:00:27.450 --> 0:00:31.240 constantly pulling at us, this is the space to come 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:35.690 back to yourself, to your body, your truth, to the 0:00:35.729 --> 0:00:40.050 practices that genuinely sustain you, the ones that work when 0:00:40.150 --> 0:00:44.940 life is actually happening. This show is for the seekers, 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:50.400 the creatives, the sensitive ones, for everyone doing the quiet, 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:58.830 courageous work of becoming whole. This is Deeply Well. Welcome 0:00:58.870 --> 0:01:03.450 back to Deeply Well. I'm Debbie Browne. Today's special guest 0:01:03.700 --> 0:01:09.880 is Darian Simone Harvin, a multimedia storyteller, writer, host, and 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:15.479 creative strategist whose work sits at the intersection of beauty, culture, art, 0:01:16.020 --> 0:01:20.160 and identity. Throughout her career, Darian has brought a distinct 0:01:20.300 --> 0:01:23.699 cultural lens to storytelling, with work appearing in the New 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:28.140 York Times, the Los Angeles Times, Essence, Allure, and The Cut. 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.119 She is the founder of Studio Simone, a platform bringing 0:01:32.180 --> 0:01:36.619 together digital storytelling and real-life community, and is the author 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:41.050 of Black Icons in Herstory. Today, she is the host 0:01:41.130 --> 0:01:44.370 of Full Coverage, where she sits down with the artists 0:01:44.510 --> 0:01:49.420 and creatives behind some of beauty's most compelling looks to 0:01:49.470 --> 0:01:53.740 explore not only how they create, but why. At the 0:01:53.780 --> 0:01:59.110 heart of Darian's work is a curiosity about what beauty, creativity, politics, 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.809 and pop culture can reveal about who we are and 0:02:02.830 --> 0:02:06.530 the world that we live in. I am so excited 0:02:06.650 --> 0:02:11.269 to welcome Darian Simone Harvin to Deeply Well. Yay! 0:02:11.510 --> 0:02:13.769 I love that. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh. 0:02:14.430 --> 0:02:17.290 It's so crazy having you on the show. I feel 0:02:17.350 --> 0:02:21.079 like I've had this chance to like watched you in 0:02:21.180 --> 0:02:24.620 so many different stages. Um, and I'm sure vice versa, 0:02:24.740 --> 0:02:28.880 but I, we know each other a while. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.600 We actually have, I mean, we met through like our 0:02:32.660 --> 0:02:36.160 good mutual friend and I had, am I allowed to 0:02:36.210 --> 0:02:39.720 like anything like my podcast at that time? And I, 0:02:39.710 --> 0:02:42.489 I mean, that was how we connected. I remember literally 0:02:42.550 --> 0:02:45.450 reaching out to you, you know, like something so nice 0:02:45.490 --> 0:02:47.930 and intentional that you did. I don't even think you 0:02:47.970 --> 0:02:50.700 remember doing this, but like, I think you recorded it 0:02:51.020 --> 0:02:53.650 at the radio station, like at the station. And then 0:02:53.690 --> 0:02:57.110 you sent me the track after. And I thought that 0:02:57.150 --> 0:03:02.070 was like so thoughtful because I had like beautiful sound. 0:03:02.190 --> 0:03:04.670 And for someone like me who was just coming up 0:03:04.730 --> 0:03:07.649 and really scrappy and doing it, it was like probably 0:03:07.690 --> 0:03:09.690 something really easy on your end, but it meant so 0:03:09.730 --> 0:03:12.510 much to me. Oh, thank you. 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:14.200 You know what? Yeah. 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.460 Like, yeah, I love. 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.720 Something about audio is like very, very important to me 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.549 in a very like hyper fixated way, but like the 0:03:25.630 --> 0:03:29.350 vocal quality of things, but you completely jogged my memory. 0:03:29.389 --> 0:03:32.890 I remember I was on air living in Houston at 0:03:32.930 --> 0:03:35.220 the time and I had, I think a midday show 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:37.820 and we recorded it while I was in the studio. 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:38.540 Yeah. 0:03:39.020 --> 0:03:41.580 I just, yeah, I have like, I remember your New 0:03:41.620 --> 0:03:44.980 York era. I think that's when I met you really, 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:49.250 really early in a long time ago. And here we are. 0:03:49.270 --> 0:03:50.160 Here we are. 0:03:50.470 --> 0:03:50.750 Wow. 0:03:50.790 --> 0:03:52.530 What a journey too. Yeah. 0:03:52.570 --> 0:03:55.510 What a journey. You know, I'm so interested, Darian, because 0:03:55.550 --> 0:03:59.090 I think, you know, I know you personally, but I 0:03:59.150 --> 0:04:05.040 also love following you. And what I've noticed is, you know, this, 0:04:05.940 --> 0:04:10.060 anything that you explore, there is always this much deeper, 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:16.840 more nuanced tie and understanding to identity, but especially through beauty. 0:04:18.020 --> 0:04:20.720 And I'm a beauty girl. And so some of the 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.010 things that I see, like, you know, you do sometimes 0:04:23.050 --> 0:04:27.510 these deep investigations about very particular things, like certain hairstyles, 0:04:27.570 --> 0:04:31.410 certain techniques. I remember some things I was watching of 0:04:31.450 --> 0:04:34.570 yours was like, you were deep inside of, you know, 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.320 this beauty hair care store, but telling the stories that 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.700 are moving throughout it. And How have you come to 0:04:42.740 --> 0:04:44.840 your work and what does it represent for you? 0:04:44.860 --> 0:04:47.979 Yeah, I think that so much of what I am 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:51.169 trying to do is like hone on on details or 0:04:51.210 --> 0:04:55.650 like find things about people, places, things that you have 0:04:55.690 --> 0:04:59.150 not heard yet or maybe are like very under the 0:04:59.210 --> 0:05:02.839 radar or just not commonly known. I'm always looking for 0:05:02.860 --> 0:05:06.099 the little story, the behind the scenes, like the thing 0:05:06.180 --> 0:05:10.479 you may not even know or whatever come to the surface, 0:05:10.820 --> 0:05:15.060 sometimes in an article, just because, I don't know, like 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:19.690 media is so bite-sized these days. But also there's such 0:05:19.850 --> 0:05:23.610 space to be like very particular and specific. And so- 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:28.020 really getting into beauty was really when I became a writer. 0:05:28.580 --> 0:05:33.130 Like people who have, are seeing me like maybe within, 0:05:33.290 --> 0:05:36.590 like since 2017 or so was really when I started 0:05:36.650 --> 0:05:39.670 to write about beauty. But as you know, before then 0:05:39.770 --> 0:05:44.940 I was working more traditionally within media on the news side, 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.900 in newsrooms. I was a social media editor. I was 0:05:49.020 --> 0:05:55.940 curating very like behind the scenes, mobile apps, switching home 0:05:55.990 --> 0:06:00.310 pages and things like that. But I have always been 0:06:00.350 --> 0:06:03.270 someone who knew that if you wanted to be in media, 0:06:03.790 --> 0:06:06.290 you need to be a switchblade. You need to be 0:06:06.330 --> 0:06:09.710 someone really comfortable in front of the camera. And you 0:06:09.790 --> 0:06:13.550 need these days to know how to strategically post on 0:06:13.650 --> 0:06:17.510 Instagram or the platform or whatever that may mean. But 0:06:17.710 --> 0:06:21.909 I think that because I developed so much burnout from 0:06:21.970 --> 0:06:28.710 that world, I needed a way to still find my 0:06:28.850 --> 0:06:33.470 center within storytelling and using my voice. And I think 0:06:33.570 --> 0:06:37.450 that is really what has changed. I didn't go into 0:06:37.510 --> 0:06:40.860 beauty thinking like, wow, this is going to be, you know, 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:42.880 like I want to focus on beauty now. I want 0:06:42.900 --> 0:06:46.180 to communicate this. Like all of this really just developed 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.960 and came to be as I was digging into my instincts. 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.140 I'd written one article about beauty. And then from there, 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.359 I recognized as I started to learn more about beauty media, 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.880 it's really just there to serve the brands, founders, and 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:05.400 people who want to receive visibility and press for what 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.890 they work on. And for me, that was very foreign. 0:07:08.910 --> 0:07:11.489 That was a very foreign idea to me. I don't, 0:07:11.590 --> 0:07:15.070 and I actually still do not resonate with that. I 0:07:15.170 --> 0:07:18.650 love makeup. I love artistry. I really like creativity, but 0:07:18.690 --> 0:07:22.140 I also felt that there was not enough like cultural 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:27.980 reporting with tension within the beauty space. And that definitely 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.460 is happening. That has been happening, but I wanted to 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.660 see more of it. And I think that because I 0:07:33.740 --> 0:07:37.380 had this like newsy lens. And then also I was just, 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.560 and still am, just a girl in the culture. Like 0:07:40.050 --> 0:07:45.710 going to music, going to selection concerts. HOK. You know, 0:07:45.750 --> 0:07:49.230 just like talking to people outside of my realm of knowledge, 0:07:49.290 --> 0:07:52.830 not just being in media. Yeah. That's how you get 0:07:52.850 --> 0:07:53.230 a story. 0:07:53.730 --> 0:07:54.330 Yeah. 0:07:54.350 --> 0:07:57.070 You know what I mean? Yeah. It was really always 0:07:57.130 --> 0:08:00.300 that for me. And now it's just evolved into something 0:08:00.860 --> 0:08:06.680 really beautiful where at first, you know, I was more 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:11.310 speaking traditionally to maybe some trends or conversations that would 0:08:11.350 --> 0:08:14.250 bubble up before them. But then it really became about 0:08:15.310 --> 0:08:18.870 talking and being in conversation with people who like had 0:08:18.890 --> 0:08:22.710 beautiful souls and were on their journey and people who 0:08:23.790 --> 0:08:27.250 maybe had something really traumatic happen in their lives or 0:08:27.370 --> 0:08:30.700 just some big change to the point where they had 0:08:30.740 --> 0:08:33.700 to make a decision. Am I going to sit within 0:08:33.740 --> 0:08:36.380 this and let this thing that happened to me become 0:08:36.420 --> 0:08:40.780 my identity? Or is this my path of growth or 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.770 to explore something new or to push past? And I 0:08:43.809 --> 0:08:47.310 became really interested in speaking to people like that. And 0:08:47.330 --> 0:08:52.260 to me, that's within beauty reporting. Yeah. You kind of 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:56.160 have to, like, as you know, it's shaping your own 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:00.260 definition for me of what beauty is. And I don't 0:09:00.330 --> 0:09:03.670 think that I've always been comfortable doing that, actually. I 0:09:04.410 --> 0:09:09.130 think that I'm someone who maybe comes off as, like, 0:09:09.870 --> 0:09:14.990 very outspoken, very articulate in the sense of what I 0:09:15.030 --> 0:09:18.180 want to do. talk about and what I think, but 0:09:18.540 --> 0:09:21.709 when it comes to career and professional, I can actually 0:09:21.790 --> 0:09:25.990 be a little quieter and not always speaking up for myself. 0:09:26.190 --> 0:09:29.030 And so I think that as I've learned to do that, 0:09:30.130 --> 0:09:33.650 it's obviously really helped me, but, um, but it's something 0:09:33.670 --> 0:09:37.349 that like, I, I still, I still move through. Right. Yeah. Yeah. 0:09:37.390 --> 0:09:40.200 So, you know, so interesting. I have a hundred places 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:41.619 I want to go with this right now. So I'm 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:43.400 trying to pace myself. No, it was so good. 0:09:43.420 --> 0:09:44.680 It was so good. 0:09:44.700 --> 0:09:48.160 Um, I think somewhere I want to start because something 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:52.760 I find really interesting about kind of a small handful 0:09:52.860 --> 0:09:56.110 of people, myself in some ways included, definitely you, is 0:09:56.790 --> 0:09:57.250 like you. 0:09:58.429 --> 0:10:01.260 Are you are. young. 0:10:01.900 --> 0:10:05.339 Like you are still like young, cutting edge, all the things, right? 0:10:05.460 --> 0:10:06.079 I agree with you. 0:10:06.260 --> 0:10:06.620 Yes. 0:10:07.700 --> 0:10:10.110 No, I agree with you. Thank you. You're welcome. Yes. 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:10.570 Thank you. 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:15.410 But also you started really early, right? So when we 0:10:15.550 --> 0:10:16.450 think about. 0:10:18.570 --> 0:10:22.970 Acumen, when we think about kind of the amount of 0:10:23.370 --> 0:10:27.720 the veteran nature of being in industry and media industry 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.840 as it's changed more than it's ever changed in the 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:36.360 last hundred years, it's really interesting, right? Because you're playing 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.540 by a lot of different rules. And I found myself 0:10:38.580 --> 0:10:43.870 in that way. I was trained old school, old school ideals, beliefs, 0:10:44.980 --> 0:10:50.300 very traditionally trained within this space. And then the world 0:10:50.340 --> 0:10:55.040 kind of rapidly changed. And so from that vantage point, 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.520 with the work that you do, with your style of journalism, 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:04.260 with the stories that you tell, what's that experience like holding, 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:10.590 having a pillar in all the different sides? 0:11:11.429 --> 0:11:15.209 Yeah, that's such an interesting question because I think that's 0:11:15.250 --> 0:11:16.690 almost like what I was trying to get to in 0:11:16.710 --> 0:11:21.550 the last thought that I had around journalism, voice, the 0:11:21.670 --> 0:11:26.160 idea of objectivity and what that really means. The craft 0:11:26.220 --> 0:11:32.880 of journalism in terms of just facts, perspective, getting things right, 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.890 quoting people correctly, putting people's voices in words within the 0:11:37.970 --> 0:11:42.770 context that they meant them. while also being able to 0:11:43.410 --> 0:11:47.510 bring another perspective that doesn't feel adversarial, but just feels different. 0:11:48.410 --> 0:11:51.890 And so now I think I've come to this point where, 0:11:52.510 --> 0:11:55.270 especially as a black woman who's actually reporting on and 0:11:55.370 --> 0:12:00.410 speaking to other black women, my personal rule of thumb 0:12:00.670 --> 0:12:02.809 now when it comes to like my voice and my 0:12:02.870 --> 0:12:06.550 perspective is that I don't ever like to tell anyone 0:12:06.690 --> 0:12:09.470 what they should be doing or how they should be thinking, period. 0:12:10.270 --> 0:12:13.070 That to me does not feel like my job because 0:12:13.130 --> 0:12:16.760 the more that I do this work, the more stories 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:21.280 I hear and the more we all function under different circumstances. 0:12:21.300 --> 0:12:24.490 And especially when you're in beauty, I always say that 0:12:24.540 --> 0:12:31.260 beauty is an industry where women... are able to create 0:12:31.300 --> 0:12:35.520 financial stability for themselves. It's this industry that I feel 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.040 like women can do that in all sorts of industries, 0:12:38.140 --> 0:12:41.290 but for women who come from different, from all different 0:12:41.370 --> 0:12:46.750 socioeconomic backgrounds, beauty is a way into more financial stability 0:12:46.790 --> 0:12:50.630 for yourself. Whether you start to go to cosmetology school, 0:12:50.690 --> 0:12:53.710 but you have been doing nails or hair since you 0:12:53.730 --> 0:12:57.199 were 15 years old, right? Or whether you have like 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.680 decided to open up a salon. you know, in the 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.230 1960s and in the 1970s, beauty salons were used as 0:13:04.270 --> 0:13:09.350 places to organize where politicians met, where, you know, women 0:13:09.390 --> 0:13:12.680 like we had spaces that we paid for that went 0:13:12.900 --> 0:13:16.980 into other conversations that happened like within their own communities 0:13:17.220 --> 0:13:19.699 and beyond. And so I just use that as an 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:24.140 example to say, like, When I think about how I'm 0:13:24.179 --> 0:13:28.620 thinking about reporting, I'm recognizing that it is really my 0:13:28.700 --> 0:13:34.540 job to paint the details in a beautiful human way 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.500 and to bring in some voices that really come from 0:13:38.570 --> 0:13:42.090 an expertise. While also maybe some women who are not 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.250 within the beauty industry, but this is their experience. And 0:13:45.309 --> 0:13:48.630 so I think that because I really, I think that 0:13:48.710 --> 0:13:52.329 beauty in media actually and on social media, people are 0:13:52.350 --> 0:13:54.079 always trying to tell you what to do. People are 0:13:54.100 --> 0:13:56.160 always trying to tell you how to think. I'm not 0:13:56.320 --> 0:14:00.080 super into that. I am into giving you a perspective 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.620 that is like rooted within the practice of journalism and 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.380 And the questions I ask and the things I go 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.780 back and ask, or even from my mistakes, honestly. And 0:14:10.820 --> 0:14:13.079 how do you learn from those? And so I think 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.910 I carry both with understanding like that there's an empathy 0:14:16.950 --> 0:14:20.690 that you should move through, recognizing that not everyone is 0:14:20.750 --> 0:14:24.330 having my experience. We all don't have the same algorithm. 0:14:24.650 --> 0:14:27.550 We all have not grown up in the same way. 0:14:27.830 --> 0:14:31.870 And that's like the beauty of life. And I want to, 0:14:32.050 --> 0:14:33.989 you know, and I want to match that with like, 0:14:34.370 --> 0:14:37.130 What was said? What did happen? What are you not 0:14:37.150 --> 0:14:41.610 thinking about? And I want to bring like fresh perspective 0:14:41.650 --> 0:14:46.980 to whatever that is. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it is 0:14:47.010 --> 0:14:51.150 for me. I... I just have such a soft spot 0:14:51.250 --> 0:14:55.010 for it because I did come from this news world 0:14:55.070 --> 0:14:57.890 where I was often one of the very few Black 0:14:57.930 --> 0:15:00.720 girls in the newsroom. And also, I was crushing it. 0:15:01.250 --> 0:15:04.920 I was freaking crushing it. I made great friends. I 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:09.480 also had incredible women managers as well. I think that's 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.479 one of the few reasons why I'm still here because 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:17.040 I think that it's very hard and rare, especially as 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.750 a woman, to find other women in positions of power 0:15:21.620 --> 0:15:26.140 who are your direct managers and they're there to support 0:15:26.180 --> 0:15:29.240 you and they're there to advocate for you over the company, 0:15:30.420 --> 0:15:34.280 which are two different things. And so I say that 0:15:34.300 --> 0:15:36.780 to say that, like, not to say that women are 0:15:36.860 --> 0:15:39.910 always vindictive within the workplace, but more to say that, like, 0:15:40.470 --> 0:15:45.940 I recognize that I've had this unique experience and I... 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.460 want to honor that in it. And it also, it 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.000 also impacts the way that I move in the way 0:15:56.020 --> 0:15:59.160 that I treat other people. Yeah. Period. You know? Yeah. 0:16:00.140 --> 0:16:02.100 I love, and that's so important to say out loud. 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:07.450 It's so interesting. Like just all of our varied experiences 0:16:07.500 --> 0:16:10.210 within whatever industries we're in. Right. And like what we 0:16:10.370 --> 0:16:14.130 feel fortified us, what allowed our creativity to flourish and 0:16:14.170 --> 0:16:16.390 also like what really stagnated us. 0:16:16.530 --> 0:16:16.770 Right. 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.480 I think something I've really been loving and seeing in 0:16:20.500 --> 0:16:25.680 the generation after me is that there is a different 0:16:25.900 --> 0:16:31.280 level of expectation for the experience that people are allowed 0:16:31.340 --> 0:16:35.090 to have. There are certain requirements that you are allowed 0:16:35.150 --> 0:16:37.710 to have in these spaces as you grow in your 0:16:37.750 --> 0:16:41.410 career and become yourself. And I always noticed for myself, 0:16:41.570 --> 0:16:45.690 I didn't have any mentors at all. like any, like none, 0:16:45.970 --> 0:16:48.990 you know? And so that has been something that's important 0:16:49.030 --> 0:16:53.250 to me, which is share knowledge, share wisdom freely, share 0:16:53.290 --> 0:16:58.450 opportunity freely, share, you know, I think what people don't 0:16:58.490 --> 0:17:03.030 always understand, especially in the media industry is like, you 0:17:03.170 --> 0:17:07.320 are allowed to have professional standards. For sure. 0:17:07.340 --> 0:17:08.180 And you should. 0:17:08.340 --> 0:17:12.179 And you should. And you should. My God. 0:17:12.570 --> 0:17:13.470 You should. 0:17:13.550 --> 0:17:17.990 Like, stop giving away all of your power. 0:17:18.010 --> 0:17:18.090 Yeah. 0:17:18.290 --> 0:17:21.210 You know, whoever needed to hear that, whoever is. Like, 0:17:22.210 --> 0:17:25.629 stop giving away your power. You matter. And your work 0:17:25.869 --> 0:17:28.899 is more important than just trying to fit into a 0:17:28.940 --> 0:17:30.600 box for quote unquote visibility. 0:17:30.619 --> 0:17:33.460 Right. Right. I, um, oh my gosh, what was the 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.830 thing you just said that I, that I wanted to, um, 0:17:35.910 --> 0:17:39.530 that I wanted to piggyback off of? It was around, oh, I. 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.800 it really resonates around creating your own standard because it 0:17:45.859 --> 0:17:48.720 comes from, you know, the ups and downs and the 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.000 mistakes that you make. But as you do, you almost 0:17:52.020 --> 0:17:54.520 have to create your own syllabus. You have to create 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.090 your own stamp, just as the New York times and 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.710 the LA times, like they have, if you look on 0:17:59.750 --> 0:18:02.149 their websites, like these standards that they say that they, 0:18:02.550 --> 0:18:05.290 live by and it impacts the kind of work that 0:18:05.310 --> 0:18:08.270 they do in their process. And I think that it's 0:18:08.390 --> 0:18:12.030 really important for you to know your yeses and your nos, 0:18:12.410 --> 0:18:16.389 your standards. And some of it is actually more intuitive 0:18:16.730 --> 0:18:19.490 or sometimes it's a feeling and recognizing like, if I 0:18:19.530 --> 0:18:23.300 feel uncomfortable in this situation, what does that mean? Or 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.800 this person said this over email and I need clarity 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:31.160 on that to make a decision. For me, it's like 0:18:31.859 --> 0:18:35.180 when it comes to, especially in this world where, you know, 0:18:35.260 --> 0:18:40.100 it's journalism, publicity, it can get very enmeshed in between 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.340 just based off of what people are looking for. And 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.830 that's another thing, right? Is like, I respect that. There 0:18:44.850 --> 0:18:47.450 are all different kinds of journalists and writers out there. 0:18:47.890 --> 0:18:53.130 But there are just, I don't really send questions. I'll 0:18:53.170 --> 0:19:00.780 send talking points. But I really believe that I really 0:19:00.820 --> 0:19:03.379 believe that if you are someone stepping in front of 0:19:03.540 --> 0:19:06.720 a mic, at least for someone like myself, or if 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:11.179 you are a pop star, I hope that you are 0:19:11.220 --> 0:19:14.300 media trained enough to understand the world that you're coming into. 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.280 That's your team's job so that we can have a 0:19:17.300 --> 0:19:19.420 conversation so that you can be your most authentic self. 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.359 I'm not talking to you about anything. I'm not looking 0:19:24.300 --> 0:19:27.190 to jab at people. I'm really just... looking to talk 0:19:27.210 --> 0:19:30.629 to you about your experience and so to me it's 0:19:30.650 --> 0:19:33.380 like you should be able to talk about that yeah 0:19:33.420 --> 0:19:35.919 but that's just me you know me being me in 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:36.679 my brain. 0:19:36.580 --> 0:19:38.820 Yeah no i still agree with you to me sending 0:19:38.859 --> 0:19:42.240 questions is crazy like it's just why i don't even 0:19:42.290 --> 0:19:44.710 want to know them if i'm being interviewed i'm like 0:19:44.910 --> 0:19:47.810 i don't yeah i'll see what comes out but yeah 0:19:47.850 --> 0:19:50.179 that idea there are certain like lanes of work that 0:19:50.220 --> 0:19:52.740 I do where it's like, you have to get approval 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:57.760 on questions and I'm just like, cool, cool. I'm going 0:19:57.780 --> 0:20:00.720 to ask more than this once we're in it. 0:20:00.740 --> 0:20:04.070 And actually like even you bringing that up is like 0:20:04.550 --> 0:20:07.590 this push and pull. I think that I've really examined 0:20:07.670 --> 0:20:10.820 around sometimes I'm like, am I just having an ego 0:20:10.859 --> 0:20:14.139 right now? Am I, am I being too authoritative? Am 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.060 I trying to step or am I stepping into my, 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.200 my power in just protecting the work? 0:20:20.570 --> 0:20:24.150 Yeah. Protecting the work. But, and, and I do understand 0:20:24.190 --> 0:20:27.210 because to a certain point, our culture is just off 0:20:27.290 --> 0:20:32.990 the rails with looking for virality or looking for, you know, these, 0:20:33.130 --> 0:20:36.750 these clip moments of things. And so it's like, you know, 0:20:36.770 --> 0:20:39.530 there's always the, the gotcha aspect with some people, the 0:20:39.590 --> 0:20:42.470 headline culture, the, so I get that part. But I 0:20:42.510 --> 0:20:44.810 think when we are in certain spaces, like the ones 0:20:44.830 --> 0:20:48.379 you cultivate, it's also important to surrender a little and 0:20:48.450 --> 0:20:51.820 see what can arise, right? Like see how God moves 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.480 through your words in real time. And you give, you're 0:20:55.540 --> 0:20:59.040 able to give more for the greater good of whoever 0:20:59.260 --> 0:21:14.570 is consuming it. So I love, you know, you've done 0:21:14.609 --> 0:21:18.940 a lot of very high profile mainstream work in this 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.080 work that you do. And then you have like the 0:21:21.180 --> 0:21:24.420 nuanced things that you go after. Right. So I'm so curious, 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.020 like in when you think about some more of the 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:30.120 mainstream ways that you've been able to bring your work 0:21:30.180 --> 0:21:32.060 to life, what stands out. 0:21:31.940 --> 0:21:35.570 To you as a few of your favorites? Yeah. I 0:21:35.609 --> 0:21:38.770 was thinking about this on the way here. I actually 0:21:38.970 --> 0:21:42.460 really loved the profile I did on Tracee Ellis Ross 0:21:42.500 --> 0:21:45.500 for the New York Times. That is a really good 0:21:45.540 --> 0:21:49.300 example of a story that just came into something much bigger. 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:56.379 I had pitched doing a story on Tracee Ellis Ross's Instagram, actually, 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.400 because I loved how she was sharing. I loved how 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:03.639 unabashed she was. I loved that, actually, to me, it 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:06.310 was very beauty forward. It was self-care forward. It was 0:22:06.609 --> 0:22:10.100 just the way that she shares um, has always just 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:12.729 to me been very like wild woman. This is who 0:22:12.830 --> 0:22:16.810 I am. And I wanted to talk about that because 0:22:16.850 --> 0:22:19.810 it was resonating with people. That's another thing too, is like, 0:22:19.830 --> 0:22:22.970 I'm looking for what resonates with people. So I reached 0:22:23.020 --> 0:22:24.480 out to her team. I got the green light from 0:22:24.500 --> 0:22:26.080 the New York times. I reached out to her team 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.960 and they said, actually, she's coming out with a haircare line. 0:22:29.980 --> 0:22:33.380 I had no clue. I had no idea. And yeah, 0:22:33.420 --> 0:22:36.409 she was coming out with pattern. And so it, actually 0:22:36.450 --> 0:22:40.250 became like such the perfect story. And then I was 0:22:40.369 --> 0:22:43.129 able to actually go to the ABC lot. This is 0:22:43.190 --> 0:22:46.949 when Black-ish was, was still on air in that capacity 0:22:47.310 --> 0:22:50.290 and was able just to, again, like you can add 0:22:50.369 --> 0:22:52.859 color to the pieces as well when you're in the 0:22:52.890 --> 0:22:56.460 room with someone. And then that story ended up not 0:22:56.540 --> 0:22:59.280 only just like being print, but being the cover of 0:22:59.300 --> 0:23:01.820 the special insert of like the beauty and wellness of 0:23:02.590 --> 0:23:06.020 Like special insert that they did within the paper. And 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:09.160 so I think to me, that's a really amazing story 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:19.520 around how kismet things can be that you cannot always manufacture. 0:23:20.550 --> 0:23:23.980 You can't always do that. And that has truly been 0:23:24.020 --> 0:23:27.520 my career and the beauty for me of my work 0:23:27.580 --> 0:23:32.740 and the humility that I will feel behind it because 0:23:33.380 --> 0:23:36.090 I might move with a little bit of an instinct 0:23:36.850 --> 0:23:38.869 and then a little bit. 0:23:38.750 --> 0:23:40.990 Of an instinct. 0:23:41.630 --> 0:23:44.170 And then I'll say the second one that I'll name 0:23:44.210 --> 0:23:47.060 really quickly was that I did a story that was 0:23:47.180 --> 0:23:51.350 around college students who did hair in school, whether you 0:23:51.420 --> 0:23:54.770 did braids or you were a barber, to help support 0:23:54.790 --> 0:23:58.770 yourself within school. And that to me was like a 0:23:58.810 --> 0:23:59.929 very real piece. 0:24:00.570 --> 0:24:01.590 How interesting. 0:24:01.670 --> 0:24:07.920 Because it's the economics of it. You know, not everyone 0:24:08.100 --> 0:24:10.340 gets the financial aid that they need. Some people are 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:12.770 paying for school out of pocket. Some people are living 0:24:12.900 --> 0:24:15.669 on and off campus. Like everyone has a different situation 0:24:15.810 --> 0:24:19.010 as a college student. And as I was speaking earlier 0:24:19.050 --> 0:24:21.730 about like how beauty can be a means of financial stability, 0:24:23.090 --> 0:24:26.590 that to me was a really great way to highlight 0:24:26.630 --> 0:24:29.800 and feature that. And so I love both of those pieces. 0:24:29.820 --> 0:24:32.740 You know, there's one is like for me about the people. 0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:35.140