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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Goliban. This is All Ball,

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Speaker 1: where we have a great conversation with Dan Grunfeld, who,

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Speaker 1: of course his dad Ernie, part of the Bernie and

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Speaker 1: Ernie Show, playing the NBA g M in the NBA

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Speaker 1: and was the GM of the Bucks the last time

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Speaker 1: they went to the Eastern Conference finals. Daniel joined us momentarily,

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Speaker 1: and I think you'll love the conversation about his life,

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Speaker 1: his career, his upbringing, and his new book that he

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Speaker 1: wrote about his family and their dramatic journey to uh

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Speaker 1: to success in America. Before you get to that, let

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Speaker 1: me just kind of give you my quick thoughts on

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Speaker 1: the NBA Finals. I want to tell you the best

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Speaker 1: team one, but they didn't the best healthiest team that

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Speaker 1: was standing one. But that is sports, right, That is sports.

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Speaker 1: That's how sports works. Whoever is healthiest, who's ever eligible.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day, they win, they get

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Speaker 1: the spoils, they get to talk shit. That's the way

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Speaker 1: it goes. And that was the Bucks. They were dead

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Speaker 1: to rights beating against the Nets. Dad, they'd be get

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Speaker 1: me by forty in Game two, and then Kyrie sprains

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Speaker 1: his ankle. Of course, uh, James Harden was already hurt,

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Speaker 1: and they lose because Kevin Durant has his foot over

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Speaker 1: the line at the end of regulation in UH in

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Speaker 1: Game seven. But when their full strength, there's no question

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Speaker 1: the Nets appeared to have been better in a good

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Speaker 1: matchup for the Nets against the Milwaukee Bucks. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they'd beat the Clippers. I don't think they beat

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Speaker 1: the Lakers, but I don't think it matters because they

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Speaker 1: beat the teams they had to beat, and they won

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Speaker 1: the championship, and Janice made seventeen and nineteen free throws.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't make Janice jest free throw fixed complete. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean the Bucks are the best team historically in

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Speaker 1: the NBA. They're going on a run. It just means

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Speaker 1: they won the tournament and they get the trophy. That's

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Speaker 1: what it means. Crazy though, right Mike Bounoser was about

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Speaker 1: to be fired. Now all of a sudden their NBA

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Speaker 1: champions It takes the National Guard to get him out

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Speaker 1: of there. Um. The other part is, you know, I've

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Speaker 1: I've long told people that the new rules. You know,

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Speaker 1: when I say new, I mean last fifteen twenty years

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Speaker 1: of existence in the NBA, they actually helped non shooters

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Speaker 1: that can huge bodies, played downhill more so than even

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Speaker 1: help shooters Lebron James before he was more of a

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Speaker 1: shooting guy. And now what you're doing, we'll do with Janice.

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Speaker 1: I guess that that even points out even more what's

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Speaker 1: lacking in Ben Simmons game. But these guys getting downhill,

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Speaker 1: playing with angles, getting by you, using their body to

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Speaker 1: fend you off, and attacking the defense, that's the new basketball. Alright,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, let's get to our interview. Here's Dan Grunfeldt,

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Speaker 1: Stanford alum, who joined me to talk about his journey

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Speaker 1: through basketball. All right, so let's let's do this. Let's

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Speaker 1: let's start with growing up. Like so, uh, my basketball background. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: my dad was stop your dad as a player, um,

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Speaker 1: but huge player that high school coached in college coach

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Speaker 1: and I was born in wisconsintly's the head coach. He

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Speaker 1: did Milwaukee, then he moved along to to Orange County

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Speaker 1: when he was assistant Long Beach State. When when you

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Speaker 1: were born, where were you born? Exactly in northern New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: so Livingston, New Jersey. Okay, Um, so where was your dad?

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Speaker 1: What was your dad doing when you were born? My

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Speaker 1: dad was a player for the Knicks, and actually, so

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Speaker 1: my birth was scheduled around two of his road trips

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Speaker 1: because my parents wanted my dad to be there for

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Speaker 1: my birth but also for my brist right, which happens

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Speaker 1: eight days later. And so the Knick schedule is that

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Speaker 1: there were two road trips. And so the first road

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Speaker 1: trip was in Texas and that's the trip where Bernard

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Speaker 1: King had fifty points back to back nights um in Dallason,

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Speaker 1: San Antonio. So he had those legendary games. And then

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Speaker 1: my dad came home and for my birth, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was a player for the Knicks. Um, So what's

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Speaker 1: your first memory obviously like your did you remember any

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Speaker 1: of the Knicks stuff? And your dad is a player's

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Speaker 1: stuff when you're a kid, or is it more what

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Speaker 1: people have told you? More people have told me from

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Speaker 1: his playing career, because he retired when I was two,

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Speaker 1: so it was still a little a little young for me.

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Speaker 1: My sisters three years older, she's five and she was five,

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Speaker 1: so she remembers, but I don't remember him as a player.

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Speaker 1: But obviously he was then executive and general manager for

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Speaker 1: many years. So my whole childhood was around the Knick.

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Speaker 1: So really my first memories are in Madison Square Garden.

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Speaker 1: But he just wasn't playing anymore, I tell you. So.

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Speaker 1: My dad had a guy named Kurt Kashi who wore

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Speaker 1: forty four WM and there's other reasons I wore forty four,

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Speaker 1: but that was like that he was I thought he

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Speaker 1: was the coolest guy, and I became guy. I thought

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Speaker 1: the number was cool. Who was your first like nick

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Speaker 1: that you fell in love with when you're a kid.

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Speaker 1: John Stars, you know, and and there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of players who I love, but really John like because

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Speaker 1: I was a shooting guard growing up and he was

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Speaker 1: a shooting guarden. He just played the game with so

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Speaker 1: much passionate heart, and I was in such a priviliged position.

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Speaker 1: I knew him, you know. So I would t M

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Speaker 1: at practice and we would talk and like, man, he

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Speaker 1: would just he would say Madison Square Guarden on fire.

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Speaker 1: Like every other team the league hated him, right because

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Speaker 1: he was you know, he would talk smack and he

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Speaker 1: was like a little bit brash. But man, I just

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Speaker 1: love John Starrs. He's he obviously in Oklahoma state alum

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Speaker 1: as well. Kind of interesting. Um well, I always find

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Speaker 1: it fascinating. I was having a have a buddy named

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Speaker 1: Brian moon Noddy. He's joining me on the parties played

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Speaker 1: with me at Oklahoma State. He played ten years Italy

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Speaker 1: and um he's a he's a high school coach now

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Speaker 1: in Oklahoma. And we were trying to describe to people,

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Speaker 1: like why our group because made the final four. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't in that group two thousand and four, they made

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Speaker 1: the final four. I was in that group. We made

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Speaker 1: the Elite eight, but we never won the league. And

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Speaker 1: yet our group he is way more popular I think

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Speaker 1: now than kind of any other group outside maybe a

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Speaker 1: big country, right, And I was trying to express the

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Speaker 1: people like just sometimes there's unique groups that come together

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Speaker 1: that fans, fans get with, I feel like, and part

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Speaker 1: of it is they did go to the NBA finals.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that era of the Knicks is like that, right,

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Speaker 1: where they didn't actually win the championship. They never really

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Speaker 1: want anything. But there's there's something about John Starks, There's

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Speaker 1: something about um Anthony the late Anthony Mason, Right, there's

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Speaker 1: something about those guys that Knicks fans gravitated towards more

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Speaker 1: than just the fact that they actually got to the

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Speaker 1: NBA files. The spirit that they played the game with

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Speaker 1: just resonated. Man in New York is blue collar, you know, working,

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Speaker 1: you know, hard work, toughness, and that's how they played,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that kind of great and determination. Like

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Speaker 1: people just love those teams and they were good and

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Speaker 1: they did have success, but it was more than that.

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Speaker 1: It was the heart and soul of the city. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like for me growing up, like having kind of

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Speaker 1: backstage access to that was amazing. But all my friends

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Speaker 1: in North New Jersey, everyone just loved the Knicks man

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Speaker 1: because it was just like you could get behind that,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Yeah, how did you How

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Speaker 1: did you deal with that? Like, because as much as

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Speaker 1: they got behind things when things are not that good. Um,

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Speaker 1: Knicks fans, especially kids like kids because kids echo the

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Speaker 1: sentiments of their parents and what their parents say, you know,

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Speaker 1: in their own homes. But a lot of times kids

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Speaker 1: don't have the filters that parents have right when they're

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Speaker 1: out kind of in public. How did you deal with that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you kind of have to learn early that

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Speaker 1: that comes with the territory. But it's not pleasant and

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Speaker 1: it's not easy. Like I would always have kids at

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Speaker 1: school be like Nick suck or you know, like this

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Speaker 1: and that, and like, yeah, dude, like it's not fun.

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Speaker 1: And I think it makes like and I have a

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Speaker 1: lot of other friends who kind of grew around the NBA.

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Speaker 1: It makes families kind of insular, you know, because you

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Speaker 1: rely on each other and you become very close. And

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Speaker 1: so my my parents were really great with me and

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Speaker 1: just always told me, like, you know, you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a lot of friends and people who care about you

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Speaker 1: for who you are, and like those are the people

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Speaker 1: that you want to like bring in closer and trust.

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Speaker 1: And there's gonna be a lot of people who might

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Speaker 1: not know you as well and who might say things,

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Speaker 1: but always trying to make me understand that like it

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Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't personal, it wasn't about me. It was

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Speaker 1: just kind of how people are. But yeah, man, it's

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Speaker 1: it's tough. Like there's a lot of perks that come

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Speaker 1: with with having like a famous dad or access to

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Speaker 1: really cool things. But yeah, there's there's a lot that

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Speaker 1: comes with and let alone, like the media, you know,

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Speaker 1: you'd you'd wake up in the morning with you know,

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Speaker 1: your dad's you know, face on the cover of the paper,

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Speaker 1: you know, being criticized and things like that when they're

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Speaker 1: not winning, and then of course when they're winning, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a different story, right, But yeah, those things are

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Speaker 1: tough to do with, particularly for a young kid. How

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Speaker 1: old were you and when he took the Bucks job?

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Speaker 1: So I was fifteen. So uh. He he was let

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Speaker 1: go in New York my freshman year in high school

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Speaker 1: and they actually went to the finals. So he had

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Speaker 1: traded for Literal Spreewell and Marcus Canby and it didn't

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Speaker 1: quite work out at first he was let go, and

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Speaker 1: then it worked out in an amazing fashion. He was

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Speaker 1: already gone, right, but he then got hired by the Bucks.

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Speaker 1: And so I moved from New Jersey to Milwaukee my

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Speaker 1: sophomore year, which seems really random, but my mom is

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Speaker 1: from Milwaukee, so I would visit there every summer, and

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Speaker 1: my my mom and dad meant when my dad was

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Speaker 1: playing for the Bucks, right, so like my family had

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Speaker 1: this history of Milwaukee. So it wasn't like as random

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Speaker 1: as you would think, but still tough to like at

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Speaker 1: that age when you're in high school, trying to come

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Speaker 1: into your own to move like it was a tough thing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So let's let's go back for for a second, because, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what what was your dad like during those times? Like,

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Speaker 1: it's I think the hardest thing. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: hard things about parenting, which you're you're gonna learn. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm a little bit older. Um, but it's how you

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Speaker 1: process work, stress and home life, right, has gotta be

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Speaker 1: you know, especially a very public job. And then the

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Speaker 1: NIXT go to the finals and he got fired. Like

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Speaker 1: what was what was your recollection of what he was

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Speaker 1: like during those times? Yeah, you know, listen, my dad

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Speaker 1: is an amazing person, but he's an amazing father, right,

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Speaker 1: So his first priority has always been his family, and

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Speaker 1: he always tried to like insulate us from all the

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Speaker 1: pressures of his job. And so he also and I

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Speaker 1: said it before, like he has very big shoulders literally

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Speaker 1: and figured to be like he's a massive guy. But

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Speaker 1: he knows that in his position, you have to take

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Speaker 1: a lot of that, right, So he he tried to

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Speaker 1: really bear the brunt of all all the kind of

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Speaker 1: stress and disappointment. But that's not to say that there

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Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of stress and disappointment. I mean, and

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Speaker 1: we'll probably get into this more later, but like my

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Speaker 1: dad grew up as an imigrant New York City watching

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Speaker 1: the Knicks and the Nosebley. It's not even been being

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Speaker 1: able to speak English, right, So then not only did

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Speaker 1: he play for the Knicks, but he ran the whole team.

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Speaker 1: So that that was you know, it was a very

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Speaker 1: hard thing for for him, I know, and for our family,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's also the nature of the business. And

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Speaker 1: you know, luckily he he got an opportunity right away

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Speaker 1: with an awesome team in Milwaukee, and they went to

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Speaker 1: Game seven in the Eastern Conference Finals. So his career

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Speaker 1: just really took off after and everything happens for a reason,

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Speaker 1: so you know, it was a tough time, man, but

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Speaker 1: he tried to insulate us as much as could. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you get to Wisconsin, your guy from Jersey, your

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Speaker 1: jew from Jersey with it for the Jersey accent, all right,

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Speaker 1: what was bol your last three years of high schooling? Amazing? Honestly, man, Like,

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Speaker 1: Like I was so lucky to go to I went

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Speaker 1: to the top public high school in Milwaukee, Nicola High School,

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Speaker 1: which actually a basketball powerhouse. Now, uh, they're just saying

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Speaker 1: Jayalen Johnson to Duke and uh, you know, so it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a great school, basketball school, and it was

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Speaker 1: a strong school then, uh, amazing place to kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, grow as a basketball player and as a student.

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Speaker 1: And so it was took an adjustment right when you moved.

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Speaker 1: You have to make new friends and figure it out.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I when I when we got to Milwaukee,

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Speaker 1: I was like five ten forty five pounds. I had

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Speaker 1: played freshman basketball in New Jersey. So like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I thought, I you know, I had good skills, and

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Speaker 1: I knew my dad was really big, my mom was big,

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Speaker 1: and the doctrines kind of said, like, this kid is

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Speaker 1: gonna be pretty big. So I knew I kind of

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Speaker 1: had a gross spurred any but I just didn't know

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Speaker 1: what I would become as a basketball player, right. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean I started varsity as a sophomore, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I was like seven points a game. I was six

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Speaker 1: six five, But then I'm six five, and then I'm

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Speaker 1: six six two oh five, and you know, by my

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Speaker 1: senior year, I'm a top plundered player. And you know,

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Speaker 1: Stanford was kind of knocking on the door. And so

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Speaker 1: my kind of ascension happened quickly. But I don't think

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure it could have happened if I didn't

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Speaker 1: go to Milwaukee. Honestly, do you do you what were

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Speaker 1: kids like to you? And I asked you this because

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Speaker 1: I think one of the hard things, UM, I stayed

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Speaker 1: back because I had that I had a gross spur. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: people like me had a gross for six. I was

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Speaker 1: like five ft five one when I finished eighth grade

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Speaker 1: the first time that. I was like five ten when

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Speaker 1: I ended high school. Right, So during that year and

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Speaker 1: three months of Master Rosberg, um, but there was always

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Speaker 1: a I thought a group. And my high school was

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Speaker 1: really it was very good for public high school as well. Coached,

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Speaker 1: we have a lot of success, um. But I always

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Speaker 1: felt like there was a group of the more popular

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Speaker 1: kids that weren't as accepting of me because I didn't

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Speaker 1: grow up there. You know, I grew up even five

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Speaker 1: miles away, but I didn't even grow up there. For

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Speaker 1: you grew up in Jersey, you don't have sweat equity

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Speaker 1: with these kids. Was did you did you ever feel

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Speaker 1: like there was any animosity towards you kind of parachuting

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Speaker 1: in and the becoming a basketball star. Honestly, man, not

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Speaker 1: not at all. And I think it speaks to the

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Speaker 1: community that I moved to. Like, people in the Midwest

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Speaker 1: are just like very accepting, nice people, and like I

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Speaker 1: really found that it accepted me with such open armsticly. Man,

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Speaker 1: I never had I never felt a lot of that,

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Speaker 1: you know, pushed back. Maybe it was happening. I was

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Speaker 1: just oblivious to it, but like, no, it was. It

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Speaker 1: was it was all love. Like people embrace me. They

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Speaker 1: tried to help me feel comfortable. And like basketball, as

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Speaker 1: you know, like it's the universal language, it's the vehicle.

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Speaker 1: Like I just started playing hoops and making friends that way,

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Speaker 1: and you know that that that really kind of just

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Speaker 1: helped me kind of assimilate. And yeah, the community was

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Speaker 1: like so accepting. So I have nothing but fond memories

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Speaker 1: about my time in Milwaukee. Where were you? So we

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Speaker 1: were in Fox Point, So I went to Nicola High School,

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Speaker 1: but my mom went to wife Fish Bay High School.

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Speaker 1: So you know the area well, like you know that's

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Speaker 1: right outside the city of Milwaukee. Yeah, it's pretty pretty awesome.

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Speaker 1: Who is your favorite Buck during those years? Man, those

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Speaker 1: years were so awesome that the answer is easy. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's Ray Allen Um, But but I have to think

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Speaker 1: because they're so just of that team right, because you

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Speaker 1: have the big dog and you had Sam Cassell and

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Speaker 1: I love Tim Thomas, but dude, like Ray Allen. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is when Ray is years old, like just an

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Speaker 1: absolute superstar in the making, Like not only could shoot

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Speaker 1: the ball, which everyone knows, but he was so explosive,

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Speaker 1: crazy athlete crazy. We we played against him when he

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Speaker 1: was at Yukon. We played against him, and a couple

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Speaker 1: of things. I remember so um he had the biggest

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Speaker 1: calves I had ever seen, like like normal sized legs,

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Speaker 1: maybe the skinny legs. And then he's like, if you

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Speaker 1: could carve out a grante with somebody's calves are supposed

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Speaker 1: to look like I remember that. And then he drove

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Speaker 1: to the middle and what we were doing was and

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Speaker 1: we did it against Villanova. Didn't work either. Where I

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Speaker 1: was guarding, like Doron Shepherd was like a footoller than me,

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Speaker 1: and every time Ray would put the ball in the ground,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna go and almost like double the ball.

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Speaker 1: And so he comes off a crewl like a pin

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Speaker 1: down on the weak side. I go in kind of

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Speaker 1: almost a help and he goes up like double almost

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Speaker 1: like triple clutches and then shoots spall like people forget

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Speaker 1: what a freak athlete he was because their snapshot of

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Speaker 1: Raylan is well Miami Heat Ray Allen or Boston Celtics Reyon,

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Speaker 1: where he had made himself into one of the league's

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Speaker 1: best shooters. They forget that that's like Ray Allen two

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Speaker 1: point one point though he did a little bit everything,

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Speaker 1: everything slashing in transition, I mean, dunking the ball like

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Speaker 1: he was such a monster, and culturally like he got

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Speaker 1: game had just come out, you know, just a few

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Speaker 1: years before, and so I was like, man like, for

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Speaker 1: all those reasons, I just love Ray. And then because

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Speaker 1: my dad's a GM of the team, like I'm working

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Speaker 1: out at the practice facility, I get to know him,

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Speaker 1: and as great of a basketball player as he is,

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Speaker 1: he's a better guy, the nicest guy in the world,

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Speaker 1: such a role model for me. Um and so like

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Speaker 1: I just looked at and again like someone who played

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Speaker 1: that that shooting guard position. Right. So in New York

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Speaker 1: it was like John Starts and then all in Houston,

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Speaker 1: and then it was Ray in Milwaukee. Learned so much

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Speaker 1: from watching him and all those other guys. And you know,

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Speaker 1: they again like they lost Game seven, two thousand one

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Speaker 1: in the Eastern Conference Finals afhilly right, but they had

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Speaker 1: a chance. I mean they were knocking on the door.

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Speaker 1: So like those were those were awesome years. Fox Sports

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Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

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00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,960
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot

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00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,040
Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f

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Speaker 1: s R to listen live. Um, okay, so why did

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Speaker 1: you choose stand? So I wanted to go to Stanford

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Speaker 1: since I was in seventh grade. So my sisters older

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Speaker 1: than me, and my grandmother lives in the Bay Area,

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Speaker 1: so when we were visiting her, we visited Stanford's campus

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Speaker 1: for my sister to take a tour. And Stanford was

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Speaker 1: like number four in the country at the time, great

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Speaker 1: academics and I was a good student, and I said, man,

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Speaker 1: and it was close to my grandma, who I'm I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know, talked to every day. It's like this is

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Speaker 1: where I want to play. But as you said, I'm

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Speaker 1: a you know, I'm a slow Jewish kid from the suburbs,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, odds aren't amazing for me. But du'dre

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Speaker 1: just kept kind of grinding, putting my head down, working,

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Speaker 1: and um really kept my eyes set on that. And

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Speaker 1: even like as I started getting recruited, like my AU

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Speaker 1: coaches and all that. They told people like he wants

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Speaker 1: to go to Stanford. You know, so the Ivy's are

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Speaker 1: recruiting me and other good kind of academic schools, but

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Speaker 1: it was always about Stanford. And you know, you have

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Speaker 1: to you have to be good in some ways, but

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Speaker 1: you also have to be lucky. And I had a

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Speaker 1: little bit of both those things where like I played well,

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Speaker 1: but I also played well at the right times. And

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Speaker 1: you know, they Stanford went to the final four and

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Speaker 1: so and they were like number one in two thousand one,

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Speaker 1: right when I was getting a cruded, so they were

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Speaker 1: like a top, top program and like so it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like a shoeman for someone like me to go there,

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Speaker 1: but it just worked out for me, man, and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't be more and more happy about it was such

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Speaker 1: an awesome experience. Okay, so you get to Stanford. Who's

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Speaker 1: there on the team. So Josh Childress is a year

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Speaker 1: older than me, um and he's he's really are our

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Speaker 1: best player. But honestly, like we had a lot of

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Speaker 1: very good but not like great great players who then

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Speaker 1: would go to the NBA. So guy like Matt Loddock

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Speaker 1: right now is the coach of Alpreiso. Right, Matt was

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Speaker 1: we were playing the same position. He was two years

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Speaker 1: older than me, so it kind of took me under

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Speaker 1: his wing a little bit. Uh. You know. Julius Barnes

385
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Speaker 1: was a very good all Pac ten player who had

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Speaker 1: you know, nice career in Europe. So there were guys

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Speaker 1: sort of like really really solid. But Mike Montgomery was

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Speaker 1: the coach and he built a system, man that was

389
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Speaker 1: so efficient. He recruited tough, skilled, smart people played together

390
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Speaker 1: and like we were first or second in the Pac

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Speaker 1: ten at that time for for eight years in a row.

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Speaker 1: Like it was just a powerhouse. And so like my

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Speaker 1: my freshman year we were a four seed and my

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Speaker 1: sophomore year we we started the season twenty six and

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Speaker 1: oh and we're a one seed. Like it was. It

396
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,399
Speaker 1: was really a roller coaster, man. Yeah, that was that

397
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 1: was like the dream here, right, your sophomayer was was

398
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 1: that was the dream here? That was the year. That

399
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Speaker 1: was the game. It wasn't Tiger at the game against Arizona,

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Speaker 1: so Doug that so we were nineteen and o right,

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00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 1: we're playing Arizona. Keep in mind, okay, Arizona starting five,

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Speaker 1: Mustafa Shakur, Selim Stodomeyer, Hassan Adams, Andrea Guadala, Channing Fry. Okay,

403
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 1: they're all NBA players, one of them the finals M

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Speaker 1: v P. And then you have Stanford. We have Josh

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Speaker 1: Children's but all good role players. We beat them in

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Speaker 1: Tucson when we were three. We were four and they

407
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Speaker 1: were three in the country. Now we're too and they're

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Speaker 1: nineteen and we're we're not. I think. No, there were

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Speaker 1: twelve and we're nineteen and O right, we we make

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Speaker 1: a shot at the buzzer, a half court shot to

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Speaker 1: win the game, to become twenty and oh Tiger's courtside.

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Speaker 1: And it was my twentieth birthday, so so I'll never

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Speaker 1: forget like it was my birthday to do it. And

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Speaker 1: we just had this magical, magical thing going on. What

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Speaker 1: um I've always heard Stanford is is just different. This

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Speaker 1: is different in a in a great way, right. And

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Speaker 1: it was one of my schools I wanted to go

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Speaker 1: to and money and I told him to. You know,

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Speaker 1: my brother worked for money for six years. He was

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00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 1: just too honest, alright, because he called me and offer

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Speaker 1: me a scholarship and he's like, okay, so here's the deal.

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Speaker 1: We have Brevin Knight. You'll back him up for two

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00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 1: years and then you'll be and you'll play some with him,

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Speaker 1: and then you'll be the starter for two years. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, coach, thanks love Stanford, think you were

426
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 1: in a great program. Not really interested. And they signed

427
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,639
Speaker 1: artly instead of me because I wanted to start as

428
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 1: a freshman. It was it was really kind of that simple, right,

429
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 1: But every guy I met from Stanford it's like the

430
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 1: guys from Notre Dame. It's like the guy smokes, they

431
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 1: just kind of okage's right. There are kind of guys, um,

432
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 1: but give me the give me like all right, So

433
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 1: when Stanford guys sit around, we tell stories. Here's a

434
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: story of what it was really like. Yeah, lots hilarious

435
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:56,879
Speaker 1: about Monty. He is very honest. I think that was

436
00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,159
Speaker 1: part of his success in a way. But also like

437
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,119
Speaker 1: you know that that that candid nature, you know, not

438
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 1: it is not for everyone, but that was kind of

439
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 1: his structure, right, Like you come in, you don't play

440
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: at first, you you take your lips, you pay your dues,

441
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 1: then you kind of move up. So it's funny that

442
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 1: you went through that, Uh, Stanford is a unique place, man,

443
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 1: It's just different. Like, ultimately, it's an amazing place. The

444
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 1: values are really right, Like the people treat each other well.

445
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 1: There's a lot of innovation. There's a lot of like

446
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: you know, Stanford is a great school, so there's a

447
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 1: lot of like intellect there. But it's not it's not

448
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: even about that, dude. It's just about ideas and being

449
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,920
Speaker 1: supportive of other people and thinking big. So it's a

450
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 1: really really special place. I after I retired professionally, I

451
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: went to business school there, so I got that paste

452
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: of it as well. And like so I spent six

453
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 1: years on campus and I just love it. But to

454
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 1: your question, like when the when the fellows are hanging

455
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: out and we're talking, it's the same stuff, right, we're

456
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 1: telling stories of old games and old parties and this

457
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: and that. But like, you know, the thing that's interesting

458
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,120
Speaker 1: about Stanfords that when you're a student athlete in particularly

459
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 1: when the when the football team is awesome, when the

460
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 1: basketball team is awesome, like you think you'd be like

461
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 1: the toast of the town and the biggest thing on campus,

462
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 1: but like there's so much going on there of people

463
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 1: have done so many cool things that you're just kind

464
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,120
Speaker 1: of a face in the crowd, which on one handed,

465
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: it's different, different, but it's also cool because you're just

466
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 1: like part of part of the deal. Yeah, it's must

467
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 1: be interesting they having gone back to business school there. How,

468
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 1: when you were there, Maples was arguably the best atmosphere

469
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 1: in the league, and now it's one of the worst. Right,

470
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 1: it's it's one of the worst. Um. Some of that

471
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: is they haven't been successful over the last decade, But

472
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: some of that is that all of that innovation, all

473
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: that other stuff has gotten even bigger in Silicon Valley, right,

474
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 1: and even bigger at the school, whereas sports matter less

475
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 1: and less, even when football has gotten really good and

476
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: and and basketball used to it used to be the

477
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: happening place, used to be the kind of crown jewel

478
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: of Stanford with Stanford basketball, it was crazy, man like Maples.

479
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,719
Speaker 1: And you know, we used to have this floor that bounced,

480
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 1: which actually never placed after my sophomore year because we

481
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: had several stress fractors in people's feet. But like they

482
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: were playing that, I didn't know that. My sophomore year

483
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 1: we had three guys with stress fraction their feet, So

484
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 1: they said maybe that contributed to it, so they replaced it.

485
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: But like that was our calling card, Like our fans

486
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: are jumping the floors, bouncing the ceilings, about to pop off,

487
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 1: like it was the hottest ticket in town. Man, I'm

488
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 1: telling you, like and to your point, like it hasn't

489
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: been like that, and you know, the program, like I'm

490
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 1: of course very still close with the coaching staff and

491
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 1: in huge supporters of them, like gotten great players, like

492
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 1: we've you know, we've we've had our moments and and

493
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: still trying to build up. But yet it had Maples

494
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: has not been hopping like it was. And it's a

495
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 1: bit of a bummer because like I take my wife

496
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 1: back and like you're telling her about the glory days,

497
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: but we're looking around and like, you know, it's not

498
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: exactly how we remembered it. But listen, like I have

499
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 1: faith in the program and the coaching staff, and I

500
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: mean in the kids they've recruited. But yet to your point,

501
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: like it hasn't quite been you know what what it was. Um,

502
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: so you know we're we're hoping to get back. You

503
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: get done play right, you don't get drafted, be your

504
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,719
Speaker 1: dad's in the league. Whatever. Uh, take me through your

505
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 1: process have decided immediately go overseas. Sure. So you know,

506
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 1: so my junior year, I was first team Mall Pac ten.

507
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: I was, you know, one of the top scores in

508
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: the conference. I had a really really strong year. Um,

509
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: and so there was rumors that I'd be like late

510
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: first round pick if I left. So I was thinking

511
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: about leaving. And at the end of the year, I

512
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: tore my a c l on a fast break in

513
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: an actually televised game. By the way, Tiger was courtsided

514
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: at that game too. He used to come to one

515
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: game year. UM. So I remember I was lying on

516
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 1: the table after I hurt my knee, like my dreams

517
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: were just crushed, and literally my head, I thought, I

518
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: wonder if Tiger will come back and like, you know,

519
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: give me some love. Like I wasn't in my right

520
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: mind then. But in my senior year I just wasn't right.

521
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: You know. I went from out of the eighteen at

522
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: game to twelve and so you know, I I played

523
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,959
Speaker 1: Summer League with Indiana, but you know it's very marginal.

524
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: So I had an opportunity overseas in Germany. UM took it.

525
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: You know, I'd never been to Europe. I didn't know

526
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: anything about European basketball, guy, you played over there, Like,

527
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, I was just shocked at high the level,

528
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: was the way they play, and so I immediately kind

529
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: of fell in love with like just the whole I

530
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: was doing what I always wanted to do. I just

531
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: wasn't doing it in the league, right, But I was

532
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: a pro player, I was getting paid, I was ball

533
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: and I was just like it was really fun and

534
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 1: of course, like I was wanted to play in the league,

535
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: and I got close with the Knicks and training camp

536
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: a few years later, but you know, ultimately, like my

537
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: career in Europe man was was super fulfilling. Take take

538
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: me to Okay, so what year was it when you're

539
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: in camp with the Knicks? Okay, who's the coach? It's

540
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: it's Mike d'antoni's first year, which actually really was an

541
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: advantage for me because everyone was new to the system.

542
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: But coach D'Antoni system is really like pass and move,

543
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: and that was type of player. I was like, listen,

544
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:31,719
Speaker 1: you weren't gonna give me the ball on the wing

545
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,719
Speaker 1: for an ice So at any level, particularly in the NBA, right,

546
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: but if you're passing and cutting and and that kind

547
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: of stuff that that worked for me. So I really

548
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: really had a strong training camp and uh, yeah, it was,

549
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: it was. It was an awesome experience. And what is

550
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: that like though too, because again I wasn't at your level.

551
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: But and I didn't get to training camp, but I

552
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: remember I was in summer League with the Lakers, and

553
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: uh and I would go to I went to a

554
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: couple of that mini camps for them whatever, and every

555
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: year would be the same where I go in there

556
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: and I was really kind of emotionally mentally timid, like, hey,

557
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: just you know, you gotta you know, you're not a Laker,

558
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: you know. It's like in my mind, like you're not,

559
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: like you gotta you gotta earn the right to be alker.

560
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: You gotta kick everybody's ask you gotta be early, you

561
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: gotta be perfect. And I put a lot of pressure

562
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: on myself. And then the more you do it more

563
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: you're like, well, like you do this, you know, And

564
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: then you walk in the building and again I don't

565
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: know what the nicture like, but I'm guessing it's the same.

566
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: It's like now you start to know the secretary's name,

567
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: you know all the trainers names, everybody NBA people. Generally,

568
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: they treat everybody with an incredible amount of respect, Like

569
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: even if you're not have no chance of making a team,

570
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: like you want a massage, all that stuff, And by

571
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: like day three, you start to like envision yourself, like

572
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: what what if I was a Laker? If that would

573
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: be kind of cool? Right for you? Dad played in

574
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 1: the league, grew up there, Dad was the GM. I'm

575
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: sure there was a long relationship there with dan TONI

576
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: what is that like to go through the emotional ups

577
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: and downs of Dude, I I could make this team

578
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: to them calling you in and going, yeah, you're not

579
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: gonna You're not gonna make this team? What was What

580
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 1: do you remember about that? I've tried to stay even

581
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: killing and just focus on the work. It's easier said

582
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: than done, right, because like if you get if you

583
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: start like you know, projecting out of what it could be,

584
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: it's hard to deal with that. But like to your point,

585
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: like you just have to earn your keep when you're

586
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: like a training camp invite or summing again. But so

587
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: I always just tried to like work or like prove

588
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: my worth. There were moments because like you know, where

589
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: I was playing in Europe as a high level in

590
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: the NBA, of course, is the highest level of the world.

591
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: But the difference you know, between a good overseas player

592
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe like a bench player of the NBA,

593
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: you're like, you know, one of the the last bench,

594
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: Like it's not that much. So all of a sudden

595
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: you start playing, You're like, yeah, I could do this right,

596
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: and I would have days. I was like, dude, like

597
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: I call my buddies, Like, you won't believe the guys

598
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: who were guarding me that I was calling for the

599
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: ball because they're like I was bigger than them. But

600
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: like these are guys that I grew up watching, and

601
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: you kind of really it's like, oh, I could do this,

602
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: and it really just takes discipline, man, to like try

603
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: not to get too much in your head. I can't

604
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: say that I was always successful because I and my

605
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: dad played for the next and I grew up, you know,

606
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: idolizing this team and I was like, the one thing

607
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: is they had fifteen guarantee contracts, so I knew someone

608
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: needed to get traded, cut or bought out. Stephan Marbury

609
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: was a teammate at the time, and there was rumors

610
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:21,959
Speaker 1: that he was bought out so I was like, too

611
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: it if he gets bought out, like maybe I slide in.

612
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: When it didn't happen, I was bummed. But the other

613
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: part of it was I was also like kind of

614
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: and we can get into this later, and I'm sure

615
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: we will be talking about my book. Like I had

616
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: a very intense basketball career, right and you probably could

617
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: relate to this, Doug, Like, if I could go back

618
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: and do it over again, I'd want to smile more

619
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: and enjoy more and worry less, you know what I mean.

620
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of their flights say that,

621
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: but you know, I was. I was rarely content, you know,

622
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: And that was one rare moment where I felt like

623
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: I gave everything I had. I showed that I could

624
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: compete at that level. It didn't happen to work out,

625
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: But I was also like, oh, I'm at a really

626
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: high level in Europe, and I was I was content

627
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: in a way when just which is strange to say

628
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: because not only because I just like got cut from

629
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: an NBA team, but it also was a feeling that

630
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: I rarely had playing because like you know, there's so

631
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: much kind of pressure and stress and and meaning behind basketball.

632
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: And again it relates, you know, closely to my book,

633
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: which I know we'll talk about. But we all have

634
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: our stories about basketball why it means so much to us,

635
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So like that the NIXT

636
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: thing was kind of like a culmination for me of

637
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: all that favorite country you played Israel, And I'm lucky

638
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: because I had really good stops overseas. So I played

639
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: a year in Germany, three in Spain, and four in Israel.

640
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: Like these are good leagues, really good countries, live in

641
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: may great friends, like I had such a cool experience.

642
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: But for me, like and you played in Israel, right,

643
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: so you know, like I play shame ting. I played

644
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,959
Speaker 1: Benet How Sharon used to be macab Ranana. So did

645
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: you play Metro West? It was that the gym you

646
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: guys played at, so we were we were in hurt

647
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: Sally at that point. I have played in Metro West

648
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: during the MCCA via games. That's actually where the gold

649
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: medal game was. But but yeah, so yeah you played

650
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: there was not at the time, but I played for

651
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: Ba Sharon and you know that's in the Ranana Hurts

652
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: a leader, like two of the nicest cities in Israel,

653
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: and that's where I lived my first year, so I

654
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: was like, you know and listen, like different leagues have

655
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: different qualities. So when I was in Spain for you know,

656
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: the middle three years of my career, and we practiced

657
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: twice a day, like I could barely get off the couch.

658
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: When I got home Israel, it's a little more relaxed.

659
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: And at the end of my career, I was cool

660
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: with that, you know, practice once a day, enjoy, come home,

661
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: hang with my wife, go to the beach, like ful offul,

662
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: Like I looked at my wife and I would look

663
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,719
Speaker 1: at each other sometimes like this is this is what's up?

664
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: Because it was just so awesome. It was so great.

665
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: It was so great, Like my thing was UH. I

666
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: didn't really get along with Sharon drew Ker. I actually

667
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: thought he was a good coach. I played for Sharon

668
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: in UH in Jerusalem. He and I also didn't get

669
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: along like particularly well. But yeah, I we have nothing

670
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: but respect now. But I like this in hindsight, I

671
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: loved his practices because all we did was playing his practices.

672
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: Like I don't remember I don't remember doing a bunch

673
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: of drills. I just just the way in which I

674
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: think we and he had he had coached Myles Signon

675
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: the year before me and Myles and a man got lost,

676
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: so I had a little bit of that negative bias

677
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: and then I'll tell you something interesting to happen. So

678
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: um I played for him the year after like this,

679
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: right season, right after Night eleven. So they called me

680
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: right after an eleven and wanted me to come over

681
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: and play. And it was dumb negotiations about money, but

682
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: it dragged out so long. By the time I registered,

683
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: I couldn't play the first four games, so I went

684
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: through training. I missed the little training camp. I went

685
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: through training with them, and the first four games he

686
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: was He was like, goodly, wouldn't you you would be

687
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: like a coach and coach with me. We go to meetings.

688
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: It was great, like but I actually I knew too

689
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: much from be sitting in like I sat it on

690
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: coaches peas and we go through the kind of strategy

691
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: of scatter reports and I'd watched it because I don't

692
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: have anything to do, and you know, so um so

693
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: he started calling me professor, professor, go to live no

694
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: more than we know. And I was like, bro, you're

695
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: the one who asked my opinion. Now when I give

696
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: you my opinion, you don't like my opinion really weird anyway.

697
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: My point is that I was in Russia the year before,

698
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: which our team was unbelievable, and I thought our coach

699
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: was really really good, and yet living in Israel. Playing

700
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: in Israel was like you go in and you lift

701
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: in the morning and get some shots. Ap you come

702
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: home and the weather was great and you want to

703
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: go to the beach, and you weren't like you were't

704
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: gonna kill yourself with practice that night, so you were

705
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: as in Russia, like bro we lifted hard for an hour,

706
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: We worked out hard for an hour. Then you come

707
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: home and life is hard because it's cold and you're

708
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: bundling up. And then you go home and just like

709
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: I gotta go to sleep and then get up and

710
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: then bump and bump five on five and drills and

711
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: stuff for practice for two hours just was harder. This

712
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: Israel was better here. Here's something people don't realize it,

713
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: but you will like road trips. So like in Russia,

714
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: like if you were playing a road game, like you

715
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: get on a bluster live like you go in Israel.

716
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: It's such a small country. It's day of right, so

717
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: and I am from Spain where we'd be taking twelve

718
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: hour bus rides Germany too, or if we'd fly, it

719
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: would still like you'd be gone for two days. I'd

720
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: be like really tough travel. Like in Israel, you're playing

721
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: in Haifa, which is a little bit far. It's like

722
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: that's like a two hour bus, right, that's like the

723
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: long one, you know, Like so that part of it, man,

724
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: it was just like such easy living. The basketball is good,

725
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: that people are cool like and then for me like

726
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: being Jewish, having family in Israel, and you know, my

727
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: my dad almost went to Israel, like you know, they

728
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: ended up coming to America, but like my whole all

729
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: my other family members went to Israel, right, so like

730
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: there's something meaningful there as well to like reconnect with

731
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: family in the past. So for all those reasons that

732
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: I just loved it there. Yeah, plus actually the falafel,

733
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,959
Speaker 1: but all the food, Like my wife and I came

734
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: home like snobs, like we've come to it. We'd be

735
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: in a restaurant in the States like, well, this produce

736
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: isn't fresh, you know, because like tell us also you

737
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 1: never say hummus ever again, Yeah, exactly, it's not hummus.

738
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: It's just it's not how much, it's not how to

739
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: pronounce it. Um okay, So you never played for my

740
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: copy tele v what well I would have if they would,

741
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: if I would have gotten the offer. So like, let's um,

742
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: they'll understand, but why didn't they? Like what was it?

743
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: So my first year in Israel for for Banana Tarone,

744
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: I was the leading so I counted as Israeli as

745
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: you probably did, just on account of being Jewish, right,

746
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: so that helps kind of with the quotas. And so

747
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: I was the leading domestic score in the league. Had

748
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: a really good year, Our team did really well, so

749
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: I was like kind of sought after, and David Black

750
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: called me and I thought that it was gonna happen,

751
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: you know. So there was like a week where I

752
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: thought I was gonna play from a copy. They ended

753
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: up going in a different direction, and uh, I actually

754
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: signed with Halone very briefly to follow my coach Dan Shamir,

755
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: who's an amazing coach. D had some financial stuff, so

756
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: I end up going to Hopball Jerusalem, right, which is

757
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: kind of like the second biggest team in the league

758
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: and also a really strong club. And uh so never

759
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: never so oh did Katash brought me Um and you know,

760
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: oh Dad was just the legendary player. And actually when

761
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: my dad was GM of the Knicks, my dad wanted

762
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: to bring oh Dad to the NBA to be the

763
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: first really player, but it was during the lockout, so

764
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: there was a lockout. And then I think eventually signed

765
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: with the team overseas and he never made it to leave.

766
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: But he was an NBA caliber player, just an amazing player,

767
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: a great guy. And then he was like go in

768
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: the middle of my first year. And actually Sharon Drewker

769
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: then joined and I had Drewker for for my last year.

770
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: Um Katash was He's a different cat though, right, like

771
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: he retired mid career to like go and find himself,

772
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: didn't He Like, he's a he's an interesting dude, listen

773
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: for I love this guy and he in Israel. He

774
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: is just like a legend. He's a great guy, and

775
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,959
Speaker 1: they're there are just there are some. There are different

776
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: ways to be successful in life and in business and

777
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,959
Speaker 1: everything else. And like I learned a lot from Ode

778
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: because like he's the type of hands off coach. Like

779
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: I remember one time after practice our assistant was like,

780
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: oh yeah, free throws and oh that looked at him

781
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,959
Speaker 1: like whatever, He's like, I don't care, like album shoot

782
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: free throws, Halbam, don't like when I was at Stanford,

783
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: like you were shooting twenty, you were registering how you

784
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: shot it. There's a data base, you know what I mean,

785
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 1: Like was like, shoot your free throws. Don't But I'll

786
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: tell you this. He won a championship in the Israel

787
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: League with Khalil Gobaa like a few years before he

788
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: came in coming to Jerusalem. It hurts, you know what

789
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: I mean, Like his hee's hands off. But he trusted

790
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: his players. You know. But if you you can do

791
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 1: with pros and but you gotta have the right pros

792
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: to the right prom dug. It didn't work in Jerusalem

793
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: for us. We we struggled because we didn't have the

794
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: right pros, you know what I mean. So that to

795
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: your point, Yeah, it's gotta be the right people totally.

796
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 1: You know. I just coached in TBT and you know,

797
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: with those guys, we we played a game and they

798
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: were exhausted, and I just I said, hey, we got

799
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 1: a shooting time middle of the day. Let me know

800
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: if you guys want to go. And I expected none

801
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: of them to go and then you know, they all

802
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: showed up and it was it was great. But I

803
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: was like, actually didn't want them to go because I

804
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: wanted the rest of their legs. And then we got

805
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: viserrated in the in the second game, Um, why did you?

806
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: Why did you? Why did you close it? Why would you?

807
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: Why did you quit? Yeah, you can relate to this

808
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: man like I mean like you put your heart and

809
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: soul into it for all those years and you know,

810
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: you just know right, And and there was a point

811
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: like my last year, so there was my fourth year

812
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: in his or I went back to hurt Cilia and

813
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 1: because I had two kind of disappointing years in Jerusalem,

814
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: and I thought I'd provide my career. I still physically

815
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: was okay, not that ever I was. I was that

816
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: great physically, but I had whatever I had to begin

817
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: with where I could still do some things. But dude,

818
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: I would I would be groaning tying my shoes before practice,

819
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, like just physically like I just and and

820
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: literally a weekend I called my dad. I was like,

821
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: I'm done, man, Like I just don't have it, you know.

822
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: And and also playing overseas takes a toll because you're

823
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: away from your family all those years and Israel is

824
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: like the best possible. This is the thing I think

825
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: now now it's a little different, you know when I

826
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: remember when I was there and this is like uh

827
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: one or two is you know you can watch ESPN remember,

828
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: but there's still there's there's parts of your life which

829
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: you are missing up right, Like you know it doesn't

830
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: you can play fantasy football there, but it's just not

831
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: the same on a Sunday when when you know the

832
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: games are on at different times, and just parts of

833
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: your life that you you take for granted about our

834
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: country that you can't do and and you know you

835
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: have cousins that have kids, and people get married and

836
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: going and seeing other people play their sports and just

837
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: your regular life that I don't I don't know if

838
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: people conceptualize. They only vision, Hey, I'm gonna get money

839
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: and put that money away and have a bunch of

840
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: money when I start my life, which is great, but

841
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: there are things that are sacrificed. So I'll tell you this, man,

842
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: Like I always like and my wife my wife, but

843
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: she was my girlfriends for a tigracies acts my wife,

844
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: but like she was over with me for our last

845
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: five years. Right, if it weren't for her, I don't

846
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 1: know how I would have made that trip over because

847
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: I had the comfort and and that kind of connection.

848
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: But like it, it can be isolating, and like you know,

849
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: I I have a lot of empathy for international players

850
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: who come to the NBA and like fans will just

851
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: like they don't know how hard it is to leave

852
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: everything you know, the people, you know, the places, the

853
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: things that come to a country that's not your own.

854
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: And for me and Israel, like I had every advantage.

855
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: I had family, they speak English. It's amazing. My wife

856
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: with me. Dude, you had to drag me to the airport. Man.

857
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: By my last year, I'm almost like hiding in my

858
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: bedroom closet. Dude, it's like to go back over because

859
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you leave everything right, so um,

860
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: people don't get it. But then also when you look

861
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: at young Europeans in the NBA, like I have a

862
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: lot of empathy because I'm like they left everything behind.

863
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: It it's hard. Okay, so did you quit mid season?

864
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: Did you finish that? Hear? What did you do? Now?

865
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: I would never equipment season and like I never quit

866
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: on my team, Like I was trying, like I did

867
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: not have a great hear like I must at all

868
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: all my energy, but no, I I kind of knew

869
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: like this is gonna be my last year, and actually

870
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to make it like the best I possibly could,

871
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: and so I still tried. You know, I worked and

872
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: I competed. But you know, when your heart kind of

873
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: checks out a little bit, it's really hard because basketball

874
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: is so competitive, man, and like and and that's how

875
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 1: it should be. Like if you don't fight tooth and

876
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: nail for everything, someone else will and it should be

877
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: that way. And there was a point in my career

878
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: where I was the guy out working and out fighting people.

879
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: And then I got to the point where I was

880
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: getting out worked and out fat by guys. And I

881
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: guess that's a natural cycle. But like, uh finished out

882
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: my career. But like, honestly, as soon as the buzzer

883
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: sounded on my last game, broke broke into tears. Man

884
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: just just cried, just crying, who is it against? Who's

885
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 1: your last game against? Funny? And Uh, actually I write

886
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: about this this story in my book because it was

887
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: against hopp walle a lot. And you know how it

888
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: is in in these leaves you get relegated if you're

889
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: towards the bottom. And pertually it was like a good

890
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: club like should never be in danger of relegation, and

891
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: we were this year. And it came down to the

892
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: last game of the year, the last game I knew

893
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: of my career. So I'm like, jeez, like, can I

894
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: just sail off into the sunset with this thing? Like

895
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 1: and I'm playing like crap, and I'm like, oh, can

896
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: we just you know, end this in the on the

897
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: positive note, The game came down to the last possession.

898
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: We were up one and they had the ball and

899
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: actually the teammate from a mind from Jerusalem national team,

900
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: awesome player, you've all Naimi. I don't know if you

901
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 1: remember him, but really really good player. He had the

902
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: ball to win the game, and at the buzzer he missed,

903
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: so like and and our fans stormed the court, you know,

904
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: and I did. I just put my hands on top

905
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: of my head and just started to cry. And I

906
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: looked in the in the stands of my wife and

907
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: she was crying because like, listen, this is a is

908
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: a lifetime pursuit, man, and you know, you put everything

909
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: into it. I growing up going to games with my

910
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: dad working out with my dad, like everything that he

911
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 1: went through in my grand and my family went through

912
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: to get me the opportunities I had, Like it all

913
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: just came out at that moment um. It's interesting. So

914
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: I have two end of career stories. So, um, my

915
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: last game in Russia. It was my first year professional,

916
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 1: but this was when I probably knew right then and there,

917
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: like I wasn't cut out for European basketball or maybe

918
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: even professional basketball. So when I went to perm Rush,

919
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: I played with euro Great and I played as American

920
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 1: and I joined them in January and we only lost

921
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: one game the whole time I was there, which is

922
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: crazy in our European league. And that and the only

923
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: guy game we lost was because I played with the

924
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: juniors against Seska because we had won the league in

925
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: advanced automatically to the semifinals. It was like our last

926
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 1: regular season game and those guys got to go on vacation,

927
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: had to stay and play. So I was really hard

928
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: because like I went from like I'm a facilitator by

929
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: nature to like now I'm the guy. And I took

930
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of shots. I missed a tun of them anyway,

931
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: So my last game Rush we win the Russian Championship

932
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: against Kazan, and it's in Kazan and they have a

933
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: small arena, but it was packed and there's kazoos whatever,

934
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: and I was getting like a fifty grand bonus or

935
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: somebody else. I was really excited about it. But the

936
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: way in which that series went, we were so much better.

937
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: They would start me and I would They would try

938
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: and press to start the game and he couldn't press me.

939
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: And then we get a lead and they take me out.

940
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: And then once we get a big lead, Willie Burton,

941
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: who was the other American, they take him out too,

942
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: because they wanted the Russian guys to win, to to

943
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: be you know too that So I didn't hardly play

944
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: that much. And I just remember winning the championship and

945
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: everybody was celebrating and I had no feeling in my

946
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: body and I was like and the juxtapansation of that

947
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: and a year earlier, when I lost my last game

948
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: with Oklahoma State and we're at Syracuse, like I felt

949
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: like we all it was like a death in the family.

950
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: I can tell you every one of my losses in

951
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: college and every reason why we lost and everything I

952
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: should have done better, right like, I can tell you

953
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: exactly what I did. I didn't give a ship. The

954
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: only thing I heard about was, oh my god, I

955
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: just made fifty dollars and I barely play right, and

956
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: I just like, this is not what I got into

957
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: it for. And so then I uh. And then I

958
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: went to Israel and it was okay, and then I

959
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: was I, Uh, I got a chance. I actually did

960
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: broadcasting for year. I came back and played in France,

961
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: and I really liked it because I had a younger coach.

962
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: He's uh, who's a black eye from like the Martinique

963
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: or whatever. It was fun. But so my actual last

964
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: competitive professional game, I don't know if I've told the

965
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: story on the product. So we're playing, uh, not Laman,

966
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,959
Speaker 1: some you from up like near Normandy, like Nancy or something.

967
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Okay, So we were I was brought

968
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: in to replace a guy who was injured to try

969
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: and get them to the first Division, and we were

970
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: like in third place in the top two teams went

971
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: and I think we went like four and one the

972
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: time I was there, or maybe six and one or something.

973
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: We lost wining. I remember like the day of the game,

974
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: the other team we get done shooting around, and this

975
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 1: is where like I actually enjoyed a little bit of

976
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: the isolation. I signed a deal and they they said,

977
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,479
Speaker 1: we're not gonna give you a car because you're gonna

978
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: live like two blocks from the arena. And it was

979
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: only for like two months. I was like, all right, whatever.

980
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: So I had this little studio. I get up in

981
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: the morning, I go across the street, I get a

982
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: cappuccino and get a like a Danish. I'd walked to

983
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: the gym, lift Wade's shoot, you know, hang out a

984
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: little bit. Then I walked to a cafe where I

985
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: got free food and the chef would come out and

986
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: say something in French. I always said I would like

987
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: and he would make it for me. It was amazing. Anyway,

988
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: So my last game open that we get out done

989
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: with like our shoot around, and the door opens for

990
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: their bus and it's my high school teammate, David Lallazarian,

991
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: who went to Notre Dame the year after I went

992
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: and I had to leave, so we never played together

993
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: as college players play age. But all of sudden he

994
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: walks out the bus, and so too does Kelvin Gibbs,

995
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: who I had known grown up. He played at Pepperdime.

996
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: I played him my my senior year uh in school,

997
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 1: and so Kelvin's on the team. David was like traveling

998
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: with the team. They're trying to put on a contract

999
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: for next year. End of the game, Uh, I'm talking

1000
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: ship this French point guard. We're winning, and he wants

1001
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 1: to fight, and these other guys score off and start

1002
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: fighting and I get kicked out of the game with

1003
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: like fourteen seconds ago in my last professional game. So

1004
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: I'm going this is to the crowd. I'm doing this thing,

1005
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: you know, to the crowd. And my wife and David

1006
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: are actually sitting up in the stands and I walked

1007
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: underneath them in that little vomitorium area right and I'm

1008
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: I'm like blowing kisses, and all of sudden I hear

1009
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: this rush sound and the guy comes to want to

1010
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: fight me in the hallway in a huge melee. Anyway,

1011
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: I'm suspended six games in France if I ever go back.

1012
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: Just so you're aware, um, as I went out with it,

1013
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: I did not go out with the tears of joy

1014
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: and mixed emotions. But I do know that feeling because

1015
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: that year I had it. And then the reason I

1016
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: didn't come back and play was I got a full

1017
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: time offer ESPN, and I couldn't even get myself to

1018
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: play pick up ball, you know, for like almost a

1019
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: year because I just had this one. I had my

1020
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: shooting mental block thing was really was had gotten better,

1021
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: but it just it really bothered me sometimes to play

1022
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: basketball with people, um and then two it just wasn't

1023
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: the same. I just didn't I love it because it

1024
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: didn't mean anything everything, Like I like basketball that means something,

1025
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: even if you go play the park, like I want

1026
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: to stay on the court or I want to play

1027
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: with a friend and I want to I wanted to

1028
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: mean something, Like it got to a point where didn't

1029
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: mean anything. Yeah, I didn't touch a ball for a

1030
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: year after I retired, and it was you know, I'd

1031
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: say a similar thing like I needed a break, needed

1032
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: to kind of like be impressed, and like basketball is

1033
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: such an accessible sport, right like you watch it, you

1034
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: roote for it, but you know, like if you haven't

1035
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: lived it, it's hard to really understand like the pressure

1036
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: that how much it means, like and how much you

1037
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 1: have to put into it to get to some of

1038
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 1: those levels. Uh, you know, sort of like you and

1039
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: I like, yeah, we had some ability, but it's not

1040
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: like you can just walk on the floor at any

1041
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: time and dominated, right, So you have to really devote

1042
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: your life to get into the level you want to

1043
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: get to. And uh, it's it's just it's an amazing journey,

1044
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: but it it is taxing. So you get back and

1045
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: when did you decide to go to business school? So

1046
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: my last year playing, I knew that, like, okay, I

1047
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: want to because you know, I had done well academically

1048
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: at Stanford. I was really I like to learn, and

1049
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to go back to school.

1050
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: So I was studying for the test, and I joke

1051
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: with people like I, you know, I I focused a

1052
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,439
Speaker 1: lot on that and it probably showed on the court,

1053
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 1: but also on the test. I did really well there,

1054
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, you know, so I I took a

1055
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: year and I worked at the NBA for my first

1056
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 1: kind of job post post basketball, which is also weird

1057
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: because then I'm like i'd be like sitting at a

1058
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: desk at noon and I'm like I text my friend

1059
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: like dude, I'm just like sitting here. Like they're like,

1060
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: this is what I do now, Like you get used

1061
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: to it now, I said, that's what you do. But

1062
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: like there's that transition when you're used to just like yeah,

1063
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: lifting and practice and resting. And I was like, oh,

1064
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: I I said at the desk. But uh, you know,

1065
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: so I have a I have a friend. His name

1066
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: is Gabe Frank. He's a doctor, uh in North Carolina.

1067
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: But he also played the copy games team with us

1068
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: in oh One. Anyway, he went from playing in the CBA,

1069
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 1: he went to Wisconsin Stevens Point to being in medical

1070
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: school and he would he was like his first year,

1071
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: he almost I think he almost flunked out and he

1072
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: really struggled. And it wasn't because he wasn't smart, but

1073
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,439
Speaker 1: he was just so used to the basketball lifestyle, which

1074
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: basketball lifestyle is. We all think we worked hard, but

1075
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: there's you can only be in the gym so long, right, Like,

1076
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: so I spent all days. I'm like, he didn't you

1077
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: went there if you went hard, you know, you lifted

1078
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: hard for forty five and you went hard in the

1079
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: gym for an hour and then he came out, he

1080
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: got some eat and then he came up and take

1081
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: an app. Yeah, and then young you play video games

1082
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: all day and then you called some friends and then

1083
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 1: you had practice at night. Right, So he was like

1084
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 1: used to that lifestyle. Now he's now he's in medical school.

1085
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: Like yo, doue. We don't like take a nap in

1086
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: the middle of the day. We don't play video games

1087
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,720
Speaker 1: in the middle of the day, like you gotta study

1088
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: all the time. And then residents, he was really hard

1089
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 1: for him. It's it's like, as athletes, you do have

1090
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: to work hard, but it's just a different patient pattern

1091
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: than how my friends I we call him civilians and

1092
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: how civilians live, so true man, and like, so there

1093
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: was that adjustment for me the first year, you know,

1094
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: applying to business schools got into Standard, which was awesome,

1095
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: such a great program, and like I at the time,

1096
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: my life there, like it was a great kind of

1097
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: accelerator for me, and just you know because again, like

1098
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: you go through this very intense athletic pursuit, but you

1099
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: have your your whole life in front of you. And

1100
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: I was also lucky because I had a great example

1101
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: my dad, Like he had an awesome career and he

1102
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: was a legend in all these ways. And thirty one

1103
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: years old, he was done playing thirty one, right, it's

1104
00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: you're still a young man. And so but I saw

1105
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: like his career after that, you know, after playing, you know,

1106
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: it was it was bigger than his playing career, right,

1107
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: and so like I had that great example like you

1108
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: need to build after you're done, and so, you know,

1109
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: I love love my experience at Business School and I

1110
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: definitely recommended for for players who have the kind of

1111
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: the desire to do because I think it's an awesome experience.

1112
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: Will learn not only like about the business world, will

1113
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 1: learn about yourself plus the people who are around you, right,

1114
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: Like I'm sure Stanford Business School there are probably some

1115
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: pretty successful people that that go through those halls. Amazing. Yeah,

1116
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 1: it's like and just like amazing friends and like push

1117
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: you and challenge you. But like, yeah, like the network,

1118
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: right that the Stanford Business School network before and after

1119
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 1: is really powerful and in your personal relationships. And uh,

1120
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: I wouldn't trade it for the world. Man, why do

1121
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 1: you why do you think this is a question? Okay,

1122
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: so it's real conversation I had. So, Um, I'm a

1123
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: big believer in the value of the network. Right, But

1124
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: that's that's the real reason you're going to college. You

1125
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 1: don't go to college is anything you'll learn. I learned

1126
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: a lot in local and state marketing. I learned a

1127
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: lot at Notre Dame. Just it was kind of like Stanford,

1128
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: where the level of intelligence of everybody there and the

1129
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: ideas who was really profound, which is above any sort

1130
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: of level of what I'm I was used to. And

1131
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: so what I told those guys is like, look, uh,

1132
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: Oklahoma State basketball. Now it's kind of become a little

1133
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: bit of dysfunctional family because we've had a bunch of

1134
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: different head coaches, and some of the head coaches weren't

1135
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: weren't about the basketball family. They were just about their

1136
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: basketball team. When we were there, it was all about

1137
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: the family, right And to this day, if I need something,

1138
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: those are the guys I talked to. Those are the

1139
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: guys I call on. Those are the guys I depend upon.

1140
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: And so I said, look, let's let's fix that. Do

1141
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: you guys need anything, you call me. Um. I know

1142
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: Stanford's like that where you guys are super super close.

1143
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: I think a lot of schools are like that. But

1144
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: why do you think that in I just feel like

1145
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: maybe the media we do a bad job of helping

1146
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 1: people understand what the real value to call just because

1147
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 1: we're we're in this mindset where the only thing that

1148
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: is a value is actual money, and I don't I

1149
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: don't think that's the case. Don't get me wrong. You know,

1150
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: some guys come from tough means. A little money does help,

1151
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: absolutely helps. And the money you make is a professional

1152
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: athlete should help you in that next life. But that

1153
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: next life is all about who you're gonna pick up

1154
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: the phone and call when you want to start your life, right,

1155
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: And I just I wonder why society, in society, we

1156
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: don't understand the true value of who you know and

1157
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: who you meet during your time in college. Yeah, I

1158
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: mean it's listen. I mean I think everyone's different, right,

1159
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: and like college is not for everyone, which is of

1160
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: course fair and cool and and everyone should just do

1161
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: what what is comfortable for them. Like for me, I

1162
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: really appreciate the opportunity in college to like to meet

1163
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: different types of people, you know, and that was so

1164
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: that that just brought into your horizons a lot. And

1165
00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: Standard is a really cool place because it is such

1166
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: a diverse student population. But like that's really stuff that

1167
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: I'll take with me forever, just like meeting friends from

1168
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: different parts of the world with different interests, you know.

1169
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wasn't just hanging out with basketball players,

1170
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,399
Speaker 1: although I did a lot of that, right, But even

1171
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: my teammates are from all difference, uh parts of the world.

1172
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that, like, the college has a

1173
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: ton to offer. I think it's important to talk about it,

1174
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: you know, in the classroom. Out of the classroom, you

1175
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: can grow a lot. But for those who like aren't

1176
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: academically inclined or who aren't interested in college, I think

1177
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: I don't think it's the only path either. Yeah, it's

1178
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: it's I don't know, it's gonna be interesting see how

1179
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: it evolves with so many different options for for players, Um,

1180
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: what what it looks like five years from now? What

1181
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: looks like ten years from now? Whereas I think kind

1182
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: of growing up for me and you, it was all

1183
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: I ever dream about was playing in college, right, Yeah,

1184
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: that's all I ever dreamed about. And I talked about

1185
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: it with a lot of people, and I did a

1186
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 1: podcast in Maurice Clarette and he was like, look, I

1187
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: grew up in Youngstown, Ohio, and when I grew up,

1188
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: all anybody cared about was playing in college, right, And

1189
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: it does feel like that has evolved in change. Whereas

1190
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: college too many people. And I think it's how we

1191
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: It's like it's not really a way station. It's a

1192
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: place you stopped and then maybe you go to another

1193
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: destination afterwards. But you stop, you unpacked, you grow, you evolved,

1194
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 1: and I feel like we diminished that. Um okay, when

1195
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: did you decide I want to write a book? So

1196
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of writing over the course of

1197
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: my life. When I was playing professionally, I had contributing

1198
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: writing positions to several websites, and I had some you know,

1199
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: success with my writing. I just love it, man, even

1200
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 1: as a kid, like my mom and dad will tell you,

1201
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: like everyone knew me as like a basketball player, but

1202
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: I'd come home and just like rite stories like and

1203
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: even when I was writing when I was playing, like

1204
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: people weren't paying me. I just loved it, man. So

1205
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: I was writing articles and things like that. And I

1206
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: always knew that there was like a white whale project

1207
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: for me, which was this book. And so um so,

1208
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: my dad is the only player in NBA historyes parents

1209
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: survived the Holocaust, and so my grandparents were Holocaust survivors.

1210
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: Have a very very big story. You know, my grandmother

1211
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: was saved. I by Swedish diplomat Robul Wallenberg, who's like

1212
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: one of the greatest heroes of the Holocaust. Um, my

1213
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: grandma lives here in the Bay Area, came to every

1214
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: home game I played at Stanford, so like we're extraordinarily close.

1215
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: And you know what I was talking before about, like

1216
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: why I cried when my career ended, what it all

1217
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: meant to me, Like basketball is a miracle for my

1218
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: family because my dad came to the United States nine

1219
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 1: years old, having never never touched a basketball, didn't speak English,

1220
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: really grow up in the shadows of the Holocaust, and

1221
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: his brother passed away right when they got to America,

1222
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: like really really tough background, and he went to the

1223
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: park to play hoops and make friends and learn English.

1224
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: And like, you know, ten years later, standing on the

1225
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: podium as an Olympic gold medalist for the United States,

1226
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, shows you what basketball can do. So for

1227
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: my family, man, like I live this life of like man,

1228
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: basketball is such a profound impact on us. And so,

1229
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,439
Speaker 1: and since I love to write, and since the story

1230
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 1: means so much to me, I was like, one day

1231
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. And so when I was in

1232
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 1: business school, since I had a little bit of space

1233
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: after my career to like think about things and really

1234
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: like looking to myself and inside of me and be like,

1235
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: what do you want to do? And uh, I said, listen,

1236
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: I want to do this. This is probably the most

1237
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: important thing I'll ever do, just because it's my it's

1238
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: our history, and it's an important story. But and I

1239
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: said this, like, if you're gonna do it, you need

1240
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: to approach it like you approached hoops, like for basketball.

1241
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,399
Speaker 1: I got up at in the morning, I'd eat, i'd

1242
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: go to sleep, I'd work out when I got up.

1243
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: You know. It was all disciplined. And so I was like,

1244
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: if I'm gonna write this, I have to write it.

1245
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: So I'd get up at six am every morning for

1246
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: eight months, um and write the thing. And so you

1247
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 1: know that was after a year and a half of research.

1248
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 1: So it really is uh, you know, it just came

1249
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: in time. I was like, this means the world to me.

1250
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: I want to I wanna get it out there. But

1251
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 1: to do it, you, just like anything else, you have

1252
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: to put your mind to it and be disciplined. Um.

1253
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: Did you sell it first and you know, with like

1254
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: a rough outline of what it was like or did

1255
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,760
Speaker 1: you write it and then shop it? It's a great question.

1256
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:50,919
Speaker 1: And so I knew very little about like the book

1257
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: business before I started writing it. And how you would

1258
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: usually do a project like this is you like you

1259
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 1: have an idea, right, and like there's also a lot

1260
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: of like really big stories about my fan only like

1261
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: how they got to American fleeing communism and all these things,

1262
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: and also my career and how it's kind of like

1263
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: all intertwined because I grew up privileged, right, And we

1264
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 1: talked about that, like with opportunities my answers couldn't have imagined, right, So, um,

1265
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: so I knew that there was a big story here.

1266
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: So usually what I would do is I put an

1267
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,439
Speaker 1: I put an outline together. I'd write a sample chapter

1268
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 1: of marketing plan, then find an agent. Then the agent

1269
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: would sell that idea. Then you would write the book

1270
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:26,320
Speaker 1: around that idea. I did it backwards, and I that

1271
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: was Some professors at Stanford kind of mentored me a

1272
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 1: little bit through this, and one of them in particular

1273
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: said they were like, you know what this means the

1274
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 1: world to you? You've written a lot write it like

1275
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: because I think this person kind of sense like this

1276
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: is like really in my heart and it needs to

1277
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: be said. They're like, you don't you want to write it?

1278
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: So like I just put my head down, man, and

1279
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 1: just wrote it. And then after I did that, I

1280
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: got an agent. Then I built a proposal based off

1281
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: the book that already existed. Then we kind of publish

1282
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 1: it for it. Um did your wife edited? Like who

1283
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: read it and gave me the first like legit feedback.

1284
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: So my wife has a mass There was some communications

1285
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: and she worked as a copy editor, so she's like

1286
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: she she helps me with all my stuff. She's amazing, amazing.

1287
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 1: So honestly, they'll Doug like, my, my, you won't believe this. Man.

1288
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: My parents didn't know I was working on this for

1289
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: the first three and a half years because when you

1290
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 1: when you talked to it was like what do you

1291
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,439
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Dan? What are you doing time?

1292
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: I mean, like I listen to a book, I would

1293
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: you know once in a while, I was like, you know,

1294
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm working on a few things. But and I also

1295
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: interviewed my dad's like a year but I told him

1296
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: I was like, listen, I'm gonna I'm gonna work on things,

1297
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: and I just want to know all these things but

1298
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: like for me personally, it's it's it's so deep and

1299
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: meaningful that like I had to just kind of like

1300
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: go into my own world with it, and and so

1301
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: but when it was finally ready, when there was something

1302
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 1: to be seen, it was you know, my wife of

1303
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: course read the first one and we we went back

1304
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: and forth, and it's been dude, I've been working on

1305
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: for five plus years at this point, Like it's, uh,

1306
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: you know, a book is like a labor of love

1307
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: in every way, particularly one like this man, where the

1308
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: story is big and and not only is a big

1309
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 1: for me personally, but for me there's always felt universal,

1310
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: right because the themes are survival, perseverance, family legacy, sports

1311
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: is a way to build bridges. And I always just

1312
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: had this sense like, man, this matters to the world, right,

1313
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: Like these type not not just this story, but these

1314
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: types of stories. Right, this is just one of many

1315
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: stories that matter in this way. So I was like,

1316
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: I just want to tell it because I think, you know,

1317
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of really hard things,

1318
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, when you're talking about when I'm talking about

1319
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: what happened to my great grandparents and Auschwitz where they

1320
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: were murdered really really difficult things like my dad never

1321
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: had grandparents. All of his grandparents were killed in Auschwitz,

1322
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: you know. But at the same time, the story is

1323
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: hopeful because my dad, you know, played in the NBA

1324
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: and as Olympic gold medalist, was a long time you know,

1325
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: executive in the NBA. Like it kind of is like

1326
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: a dreams can come true situation and and certainly the

1327
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: American dream you know. So man just just such a

1328
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: like a personal personal pursuit to tell that story. Um.

1329
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 1: I also find that this, this story now I needed

1330
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: to be told. But there's a lot lot of people

1331
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: who need to understand it, right because there's so many

1332
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: like as time goes, not enough people know the story, right,

1333
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: They just don't they you say Holocaust, and it doesn't

1334
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 1: really when you say like six million Jews, ten million people,

1335
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: Now it's gonna be like really and it's so hard

1336
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: to fathom, right, because of all the different struggles we

1337
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: go through, right, Like you can't even imagine in your

1338
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: mind the atrocities that were committed less than a century ago,

1339
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: records of a century ago, right, so it needs to

1340
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: be told. Well, what is the feeling like when you know,

1341
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 1: like Myers Leonard saying saying, Kike right, and other people

1342
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: you know, using um not really understanding what they're talking about.

1343
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: Like what is that like for you who not only

1344
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: has a family who's survived, but you've also researched it,

1345
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: and when you research it, it becomes even more tangible,

1346
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: more real to you. Yeah, yeah, I mean, listen, it's

1347
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: it's upsetting, like anti Semitism and and really injustice in

1348
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: any form is upsetting. And for me for to not

1349
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: understand kind of what happened and what's at stake when

1350
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: there's injustice, right, and I know that we all not

1351
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 1: all too well right, and to your point, it wasn't

1352
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: that long ago like that, when we get when we're

1353
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: done here, I will call my grandma because I call

1354
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: her every night, and we're gonna just talk and she's

1355
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: gonna face time with my with her great grandson. She's man,

1356
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: she was there right, like she was there. Like it's

1357
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: like you can say, like her parents were killed, five

1358
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: of her siblings were murdered, like those are just words,

1359
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: but that happened to her, right, and so like that,

1360
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: that's that's where someone I love, one of the people

1361
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: I love the most in the world she went, she

1362
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 1: went through that, right, So like, yeah, it hurts me

1363
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: when I see that like anti Semitism and also it

1364
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: not being kind of you know, taken as seriously as

1365
01:00:58,480 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: it is. And again that goes for all forms and

1366
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: elsin And I think I was always raised like stand

1367
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: up when things are wrong because you know what's at stake,

1368
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 1: and like it could be you know, whether it's whether

1369
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 1: it's Jews or you know other groups were being like

1370
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 1: persecutor discriminated against. There's just no place for it. And yeah,

1371
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: it's super personal for me, man, It's super personal. Okay,

1372
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: So so I know social justice is a huge part

1373
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: of who you are, um, but you'll have people that

1374
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 1: will say, you know, there's like look, Dan, white privilege.

1375
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: That's how you were able to Your dad was a

1376
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: gentle manager, you went to great schools, then you go

1377
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: to Stanford. And my pushback not being you would be like,

1378
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: hold on, dude, his dad got off the boat and

1379
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: everything he got he yearned for himself. And we're in

1380
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: a sport which is predominantly black, and every negative stereotype

1381
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: given is given to the white basketball player that you

1382
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: have to find a way to overcome. If I said

1383
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: to you, or somebody said to you, Dan, you're a

1384
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: product of white privilege. What would your response be? I

1385
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 1: would agree with at And I'll tell you why I am.

1386
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: I am, in no doubt I'm a product of privilege

1387
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: because I grew up in a privilege and fronement where

1388
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 1: I had opportunities and resources. But as a white man

1389
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: in America, I benefit from privilege. I think that's how

1390
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: our society is um and I think that's you know,

1391
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,959
Speaker 1: that's fair to to acknowledge. And I'm and I'm happy

1392
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that. Like, as a white man, you know,

1393
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 1: I have advantages unfairly that some of my black friends

1394
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: don't write. And I do think they're they're injustices in

1395
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: society that are important to call out. But that being said,

1396
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 1: like everyone everyone has their own journeys as well. So yeah,

1397
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: my dad is, But aren't those Aren't those My pushback

1398
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: would be, aren't those privileges? Heard? Right? Like you're going

1399
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 1: to Staford that's because you worked your ass off in

1400
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 1: both school and sports, like I I mean, I think

1401
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: I think there's athletic privilege. I don't think we're talking

1402
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: up about there's socio economic privilege, you know, And I

1403
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: don't know. If I don't, I don't know, I have

1404
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 1: a tough time. And just because I do understand that's

1405
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 1: that people come from different means. But you're describing to

1406
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: me a you know, family in disarray that comes to

1407
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: this country and uh and and earns everything they've had,

1408
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: and yet you're saying that you're somehow privileged for what

1409
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: So it's been earned previous to you. So so I

1410
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: I think, like, for instance, for me getting to Stanford,

1411
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: for my dad make it to the NBA, that wasn't privileged, right,

1412
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 1: because there are no gifts in basketball. That's hard work, right.

1413
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 1: But I just think in society, as a white male

1414
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: in society, you benefit from privilege just based off of

1415
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 1: that status because there are inequities in our society. I

1416
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: think that's the reality. But as a place like my

1417
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: success and my dad's success, it's all there's been no

1418
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: privilege at all because my like my dad earned what

1419
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: he what he got, and I earned what I got

1420
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 1: on the basketball winning the classroom. Right. So I got

1421
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 1: to Stanford because I worked my ass off and the

1422
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: classroom on the court, you know what I mean. And

1423
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: my dad game went from like this really really tough background,

1424
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 1: not speaking the language, like I mean, it's it's amazing.

1425
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: Like what he was, where he was able to get

1426
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: from where he started what is truly a miracle. And

1427
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: it was through hard work and perseverance and all these

1428
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: qualities that were inside of him. So like the success

1429
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 1: that like he had or that I had was earned.

1430
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,120
Speaker 1: But I do think it's really important to acknowledge that

1431
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: as like white males in society, we do benefit from

1432
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 1: privilege because of like the the inequalities that you know

1433
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: that that our president. Um when when somebody reads this book,

1434
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 1: and don't you don't tell people that you tell people

1435
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 1: basically kind of the premise of it one story that

1436
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: they're not gonna believe that you're gonna I cannot believe.

1437
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 1: I oh man, there is that's an awesome question. Once well, listen,

1438
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 1: I don't want we've already touched on some of the

1439
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: more difficult things. You know, I'll tell you something that

1440
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 1: people won't believe because this is a story that that

1441
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 1: is not really well known. So my dad is uh,

1442
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: fled Romania as a refugee, right, So my dad was

1443
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: one under communism and my my my family fled under

1444
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: dre s, right, and so living under communism, you're not

1445
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 1: allowed to have anything, you can pick anything out right,

1446
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: So it's you know, this is pretty pretty hard life.

1447
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 1: And so my family was able to accumulate money illegally,

1448
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: right because under communism you're not allowed to accumulate things.

1449
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 1: And they were always they were searching for for ways

1450
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: to get it out right. So because you know, everything

1451
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 1: was searching you couldn't take anything out with them, they

1452
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 1: were able to and they had several thousands of dollars

1453
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 1: by then, which was like a fortune in those days.

1454
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 1: So my grandpa was like, how then on, like, we're

1455
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 1: getting this money out, how are we going to do it?

1456
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 1: The way they were? And they had American dollars, which,

1457
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: by the way, if you were caught with American dollars,

1458
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: like you're going to prison, your maybe being tortured, maybe

1459
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 1: being killed. So this is like pretty high you know,

1460
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: like high stakes stuff. My my grandparents were able to

1461
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 1: smuggle their money out by eliciting the support of one

1462
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 1: of the biggest celebrity comedians in the United States, Buddy Hackett.

1463
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: So Buddy Hackett was filming a movie in Budapest, and

1464
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 1: my grandparents to new some on who was working on

1465
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: the movie set, and they were able to convince Buddy Hackett,

1466
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: who was like one of the biggest celebrities in America,

1467
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 1: to smuggle their money out for them and send it

1468
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 1: to their family in the United States. So when they

1469
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 1: already put it, they sent it to my grandmother's brother

1470
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 1: who was already settled in the Bronx with extra money

1471
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: on top by the way, saying good luck in America.

1472
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 1: And so when they got off the boat. While they

1473
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 1: actually flew, but when they got to America, Uh, the

1474
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 1: money that they were able to start a life with

1475
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: was illegal money made under communism in Romania that was

1476
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: smuggled out by one of the biggest celebrities in the

1477
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 1: United States at the time. Um, have you been to

1478
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 1: the concentration games? I haven't. Um, I haven't neither. I

1479
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: want to go. You know, I had an opportunity where

1480
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to but listen, Like, I actually talked

1481
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: to someone today who told me about that someone in

1482
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: their family visited Alfitch and this is a non Jewish friend.

1483
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: He said it was one of the most profound and

1484
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 1: chilling experiences that they've ever had. I felt that when

1485
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 1: I went to Yashem every time I've in Yashem in

1486
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 1: in Jerusalem, just I just you know, like brought to

1487
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 1: my knees every time, just the trustees and and look,

1488
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 1: I'll be honestly I wasn't. It's not the same. But

1489
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: you're in the National Civil Rights Museum in uh in Memphis.

1490
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:20,479
Speaker 1: It's at the Lorraine Hotel where Martin Luther King Junia

1491
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: was shot and so they still have the room intact,

1492
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: and then the museum is built around it, and um,

1493
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: obviously there's not six main people but the but when

1494
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 1: you visit it, you walk away just the embarrassed for

1495
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 1: your country. Just you're just sitting there going like how

1496
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 1: did granted you know, my family is like your family,

1497
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 1: Like we you either treated people with respect, you know,

1498
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: or or you wouldn't see the light of day, right,

1499
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 1: But you just you look around you like how how

1500
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: how do people have that within them in humanity? Right?

1501
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 1: And and the Holocaust is just to a completely different level.

1502
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: I do want to do it, I just don't know,

1503
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:03,600
Speaker 1: like emotionally, I'm not really I still don't think I'm

1504
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 1: prepared for it. But it's like one of those things

1505
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 1: that you've gotta I have this discussion with my kids

1506
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 1: because I have three children and their mom is not Jewish,

1507
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: and um, you know, two of them go to like

1508
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 1: a Jewish day school and one says she's an atheist,

1509
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 1: one says he believes in Jesus, and then their sisters like,

1510
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 1: you know, I believe in God. I can't really figure out.

1511
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: And I try and tell them like listen, I and

1512
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 1: I don't. Actually doesn't actually bother me if you're not Jewish, like,

1513
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 1: I'd love you to believe what I believe. But if

1514
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 1: the more I say you need to believe what I believe,

1515
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 1: then the less likely it is to happen. Right, it

1516
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,200
Speaker 1: happens or it doesn't happen. You know, I just want

1517
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:42,560
Speaker 1: you to tribute respect and hopefully believe in God and

1518
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: know there's staff of life, will all be together, et cetera.

1519
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 1: But your last name is God. That is a Jewish

1520
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: last name. If and if there is a time which

1521
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 1: people get singled out, you're gonna get singled out, whether

1522
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 1: you like it or not. And you have to understand

1523
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,719
Speaker 1: everything that kind of comes with it, right, And that's

1524
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 1: when those conversations, those visits, I think, become really necessary.

1525
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 1: But I I just think like we do a terrible

1526
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: job as a society in not teaching people about the

1527
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 1: atrocities of the past. And then they like, you don't

1528
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 1: want to scare kids, but you do have to educate

1529
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: them on the evils that did run the earth, no

1530
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 1: doubt about there. There's been some really troubling data around

1531
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: like Holocaust awareness, and there are other things too, are

1532
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: like people aren't educated on, but like people have to know.

1533
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: I have to know about these things, and so that's

1534
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:36,640
Speaker 1: kind of one of my hopes with the book is

1535
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 1: that younger people will engage because ultimately it's a it's

1536
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 1: a story about some of these things that happened, but

1537
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 1: the rapper is basketball. There's a lot of funny and

1538
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: fun things and about growing up and you know, playing

1539
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 1: the game, and the game you know how how my

1540
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: dad's path my path, and so you know, there's there's

1541
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 1: that really accessible part of it. But my hope is

1542
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,679
Speaker 1: always that younger people will engage and in the process

1543
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:00,560
Speaker 1: learn about some of these things, because I mean, like

1544
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 1: the data shown, like I forget exactly what the numbers

1545
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 1: where it was like half half of like millennials hadn't

1546
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,600
Speaker 1: even heard of the Holocaust, I didn't even right. It

1547
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 1: was something like so disturbing, and I didn't even know

1548
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: like what alf Fitz was or thought it was like,

1549
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know the number six million and

1550
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 1: things like that. And so listen, you know, all these

1551
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,599
Speaker 1: really troubling things in history, regardless of like who it happens,

1552
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 1: do we need to learn from a man, because like

1553
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:25,760
Speaker 1: their humanity is capable of of a lot of great,

1554
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 1: amazing love and amazing things. But there's a lot of

1555
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 1: really really had things that can happen. And so that's

1556
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 1: why I like, you know, treating people well, standing up

1557
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: for what's right, standing against injustice, regardless of the form.

1558
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: It's so important man. And so I hope my book

1559
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 1: is just like a small part of that um okay

1560
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 1: uh co basketball things before before we ended they were

1561
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:51,799
Speaker 1: a great shooter, What where did you aim? I appreciate

1562
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:53,640
Speaker 1: you saying that I was a streaky shooter. So if

1563
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 1: I was in my if I was like in my

1564
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 1: comfort zone, I could be lights out. But I was

1565
01:10:58,120 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 1: a little bit too analytical that you know how it

1566
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 1: is like like you're you're your own yourstead of me.

1567
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 1: So I could definitely shoot the basketball, but I wish

1568
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 1: again I could go back and like kind of retraining

1569
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 1: my mind to shoot it a little more comfortably. But

1570
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:12,720
Speaker 1: you know what, I tried to a like front rim,

1571
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, but obviously over the front rim. But I

1572
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: was more like front rim than back room. But I

1573
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 1: was always I always kind of thought like I always

1574
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:22,560
Speaker 1: wanted to shoot naturally right and like not aim and

1575
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: just kind of like did you watch the flight of

1576
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 1: the ball or did you only look at the target?

1577
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,760
Speaker 1: I think I mostly looked at the target. I'm like

1578
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: trying to go back and think, you know, so I

1579
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,840
Speaker 1: don't I don't quite remember her. I usually like when

1580
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: I left my hands, I had a pretty good sense

1581
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 1: of what was going to happen, you know, like when

1582
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 1: I was on and there were times like you know

1583
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 1: how it is, like when you're feeling in like the

1584
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:43,439
Speaker 1: ball swings and you shoot it and you're like, well,

1585
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 1: I know what happened. I know what's happening there, Like

1586
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 1: that's you know, started running back, Like those are the

1587
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: best feelings. And there are times where it wasn't happening.

1588
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 1: You shoot, you're like, oh that doesn't feel right. Um,

1589
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 1: So I don't really remember if I tracked the path

1590
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: of the ball. I might have though, now that I'm

1591
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 1: thinking about it, Um, step in or one too or

1592
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 1: hop in your shot one too? Always left right, yeah, now,

1593
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 1: I mean like we worked at Stanford. Montgomery was big

1594
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:11,640
Speaker 1: on this, like trying to develop like some the right

1595
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 1: handed player, so left right would be the true for me,

1596
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 1: Like trying to be comfortable right left, because if you're

1597
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: coming off a screen, a downscreen on the right side

1598
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 1: of the floor, like you're gonna curl around where like

1599
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 1: you want to take like right left into the shot,

1600
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 1: you know. So we would work on that a lot

1601
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 1: at Stanford, like stepping in with both feet. But my

1602
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 1: comfort was just like left right. I always kind of

1603
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 1: admire people like Ja Ja Reddick is so good at

1604
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 1: like hopping into it, you know, and he seems to

1605
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,560
Speaker 1: get good spring off it. Like my one of my

1606
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: weaknesses with my child, like my when my legs went

1607
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 1: or I got tired, like you know, the jump shot

1608
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 1: comes from the legs a lot, like when my should

1609
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 1: would get a little flat. And I sometimes think back, man,

1610
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 1: if I had that good hop step, maybe it would

1611
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 1: have give me a little more spring. Um, you're the

1612
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 1: funniest teammate you ever played. Man, that's such it. Carlton

1613
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 1: weatherb my teammate at Stanford, Man, just the funniest, funniest dude. Um.

1614
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 1: They were the same same grade, same age, and we

1615
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 1: would just laugh NonStop. Um. And then of course professionally,

1616
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 1: like I played with other guys to like, um, you

1617
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 1: know Lee Alan, who you probably remember playing the league

1618
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 1: like Lee and I, oh yeah, like I know Lee's

1619
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:16,600
Speaker 1: coaching now. Like Lee just had me rolling in on

1620
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 1: the floor so many times. Like you play with guys

1621
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 1: who just like are really really funny. But I had

1622
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: a lot of teams at Stanford where we would we

1623
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: would man have a lot of laughs. You just did

1624
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: you ever did you know type so all the time?

1625
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 1: Did you ever do you feel like you no? No?

1626
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 1: So when so the game you mentioned when we hit

1627
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: that half coad shot to win it all my birthday right,

1628
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 1: like the fans rushed the court. It was like it

1629
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 1: was madness. So finally we get into the locker room

1630
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: and Tiger came into the locker room to talk to us,

1631
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: you know, so it was like it was and that

1632
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 1: was two thousand four, So he's like the biggest celebrity

1633
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 1: on the planet and I'm not that's like, yeah, it's

1634
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 1: like it's like peak Tiger, right. So he and he

1635
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 1: was married to Ellen at that time, so they both

1636
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 1: came in the locker room and uh, actually I remember

1637
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: he went around the team and slapped us all high lives,

1638
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 1: you know, and we're all just like little kids like

1639
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,639
Speaker 1: lining up, and he missed me. I was the last dude,

1640
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 1: and he missed me. And he turned around, and I

1641
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 1: was like kind of like oh man, Like but I

1642
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:11,679
Speaker 1: guess I didn't have like whatever the gusts to be like, yeah, Tiger,

1643
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 1: could I get some love? But Montgomery his credit, said hey, Tiger,

1644
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 1: you give grunty some love. Give grunty some love. And

1645
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 1: he turned around and it was like, you know, like

1646
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 1: the two hands met, and I was like, oh man,

1647
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 1: that's the best. Uh. That was my most interaction with him.

1648
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:25,240
Speaker 1: I never got a chance, but I had a couple

1649
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 1: of friends on the golf team who said that he

1650
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:29,839
Speaker 1: came and talked to them and did some like drills

1651
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:31,799
Speaker 1: with them where they would like chip into a bucket

1652
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,040
Speaker 1: or something. And my buddies like, yeah, like those guys

1653
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 1: on the team, like out of ten, like if you

1654
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 1: made like one to three, like it was good and

1655
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 1: Tiger would get like eight nine ten. It would just

1656
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: be like boom, boom boom, and it was like, dude,

1657
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 1: it was next level. The most successful Stanford guy who

1658
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 1: you were friendly with for any period of time one

1659
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 1: of your two times to stamp wow. So you know,

1660
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: the founder of Instagram was my class um, Kevin Sistram,

1661
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:00,640
Speaker 1: Like like I knew him around, but he doesn't. I

1662
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 1: mean that was that was a huge you know, a

1663
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: huge outcome. Uh you know it's a Ray who's a

1664
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:08,519
Speaker 1: very big, you know, actress and media personality, was a

1665
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 1: year behind me at Stanford. Of course, like a lot

1666
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 1: of athletes who have done really cool stuff, like my

1667
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 1: guy Brook Lopez just wanted an NBA championship, which was

1668
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 1: so cool. Brooke Brooke came the year after I left it. Actually,

1669
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,040
Speaker 1: I've heard you tell a very funny story about Brooke

1670
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:25,639
Speaker 1: and Robin because I know you you play with Alex right, yeah,

1671
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 1: I know you know those guys, but uh yeah, listen,

1672
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 1: like like there are and then there are a bunch

1673
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:33,840
Speaker 1: of people like in business school who just like have

1674
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 1: started companies that are doing like extraordinarily well, which is

1675
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 1: like Instagram. That's pretty right, Yeah, that's did you ever

1676
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: get hit up on investing any of these things? You're like, well,

1677
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 1: i'll tell you this, Okay, So Instagram, so you're gonna

1678
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 1: take your own picture wherever you are. You're like, yeah,

1679
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,560
Speaker 1: great idea. You'll appreciate this time. So like my my

1680
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: at Stanford, you have random freshman roommates. A lot of

1681
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 1: schools like you you you yeah, so, which was great.

1682
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 1: So my random freshman room it became my roommate all

1683
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:02,559
Speaker 1: four years at Stanford is one of my best friends

1684
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:05,160
Speaker 1: in the world. But he wasn't he he actually played

1685
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 1: on football team briefly, but he wasn't recruited to Stanford

1686
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 1: as an athlete. He was a mechanical engineer major, so

1687
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 1: ours and we were all he lived with. All there's

1688
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 1: a lot of other people on the team our sophomore

1689
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 1: that we lived with, so he was the only non

1690
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:17,720
Speaker 1: basketball player. And he went to a career fair, like

1691
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: on a weekend, and we were like, dude, we're watching movies,

1692
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: we're hanging out. You're going to a career fair. And

1693
01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:25,760
Speaker 1: this was two thousand four, our sophomore year, and he

1694
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 1: came back. It's like, dude, like I got this job

1695
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 1: offer from this little company like Facebook, like they had

1696
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 1: a little booth, like I think it's pretty cool. We're like, dude,

1697
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 1: hang out, like we're just chill, like it's not about that.

1698
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: And so he he didn't take that, and so we

1699
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 1: looked back on that. We're like, sorry, man, like you

1700
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 1: you were right like we were. We were probably noted

1701
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: on the right side of history there. Um, okay, so

1702
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:51,000
Speaker 1: you've this is like your life's work, right, this is

1703
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: your no. One. It's a great question, man. Like, first all,

1704
01:16:57,400 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 1: I I do love to write, so I would love

1705
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 1: to see more opportunity used to be able to do that.

1706
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 1: But I just like, honestly, like I really want to

1707
01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:05,680
Speaker 1: live in the moment with this project now because the

1708
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 1: book comes out on November, right, so it's available for

1709
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:10,559
Speaker 1: pre order now, and that that all that stuff has

1710
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 1: gone really really well. There's been great engagement around and enthusiasm,

1711
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:17,600
Speaker 1: enthusiasm around it. Like unfortunately and you kind of you

1712
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: references it's really relevant because of not only like the

1713
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 1: increase in anti Semitism, but just in general, right, the

1714
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 1: different kind of injustices in our society, Like stories like

1715
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 1: this are really are are irrelevant now. Um, not that

1716
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,799
Speaker 1: they've ever done irrelevant, but there's been really good engagement

1717
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 1: around it, and so like you know, just trying to

1718
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 1: like stay in the moment, you know, share this story

1719
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:40,519
Speaker 1: with people, and then um continue to just kind of

1720
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 1: like honor this history man. And like my grandmother, she's

1721
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 1: really like she's the hero. She's my hero. She's the

1722
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 1: hero of the story. She is a hero. And this

1723
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 1: is something else that's in the book, Like she was

1724
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:51,639
Speaker 1: able to obtain false documents to survive on the streets

1725
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 1: of Budapest during the war, but she risked her life

1726
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 1: to obtain seventeen other documents for other people to write.

1727
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 1: So she's quite literally a war hero. And um, for

1728
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,000
Speaker 1: me to like memorialize this and just to be able

1729
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 1: to kind of like live her values, like that's that's

1730
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 1: the most important thing to me right now. And if

1731
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:08,760
Speaker 1: I'm able to write more things and of course do

1732
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 1: more things professionally. Basketball is always a huge part of

1733
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 1: my life. Like those are all things that I care

1734
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 1: about a lot, But just like to like live my

1735
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 1: Krandma's values, then that's that's all I can ask for.

1736
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,759
Speaker 1: All Right, last thing you mentioned Milwaukee's plushment to high school.

1737
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:23,800
Speaker 1: Your dad was DGM there when they went to the

1738
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:27,479
Speaker 1: Eastern Conference Finals the last time around. Right, to see

1739
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:31,559
Speaker 1: them as NBA champions. And what's really interesting is part

1740
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 1: of the stories I told is the New Yorkers from

1741
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:38,400
Speaker 1: MSG came over, brought the team right, and they they

1742
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: had a vision and they weren't allowed to move it

1743
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 1: her coals Like I'll throw in a hunter million, but

1744
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 1: you can't move move the team, right. So they built

1745
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 1: the practice ability, they built the new arena, and the

1746
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:50,800
Speaker 1: their NBA champions. But for you to have seen it,

1747
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 1: it wasn't the darkest time when you were there, right,

1748
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 1: but to see it and now see them as champions

1749
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 1: and see what that city is going through, what's it like?

1750
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: It's all some dude, Like I'm stopping for the community

1751
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: to see sixty five thousand people in the Deatrick like

1752
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:09,040
Speaker 1: supporting that team, you know, and also to see like

1753
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 1: it's such a likable team, right, be honest, like what

1754
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: what what a what a human being? Let alone like

1755
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 1: just an amazing player Drew Holiday, Chris Middleton, Like these

1756
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 1: are just like stand up people playing the game the

1757
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:21,120
Speaker 1: right way for a community in a in a city

1758
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:23,800
Speaker 1: that I really care about. Something that's not very well known.

1759
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 1: So you mentioned my dad's history with the Bucks. So

1760
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 1: my mom and dad met through the books. So when

1761
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:31,600
Speaker 1: my dad was drafted, you know, he got to Milwaukee said, hey,

1762
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 1: any any has Jewish girls in town, and oh, you

1763
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:37,080
Speaker 1: should meet Andy Khan. So my grandfather on my mom's

1764
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 1: side was the original lawyer and and a part owner

1765
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:42,720
Speaker 1: of the Bucks. Like this is in the seventies, So

1766
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 1: like my family's history of Milwaukee goes back fifty years.

1767
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:49,720
Speaker 1: And in fact, when the Bucks won in seventy one,

1768
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,040
Speaker 1: my grandfather got a championship ring because again he was

1769
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:54,639
Speaker 1: very closely affiliate with the team. For my bar Mitzvah,

1770
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 1: he gifted me that ring. So I have a Bucks

1771
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 1: championship rings from nine one. So it's actually funny because

1772
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:03,040
Speaker 1: my dad is in the NBA for forty years, but

1773
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 1: I'm the one in my family with a ring, you know,

1774
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 1: And I remind him of that. He'll say, I do

1775
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:09,559
Speaker 1: have a gold medal, and just that's just data sharing

1776
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: with you, right, But yeah, man, So like my my

1777
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:15,200
Speaker 1: grandparents born and raised in Milwaukee, man, Like our roots

1778
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 1: there are so deep so and I have so many

1779
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:19,800
Speaker 1: dear friends, man, so to see them win it and

1780
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 1: the way they wanted and see like a city that

1781
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 1: I care about so much, like have that success. It's

1782
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:29,880
Speaker 1: just awesome, just awesome, so exciting. Um, Dan, I can't

1783
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:32,000
Speaker 1: tell how much I appreciate you joining me. I can't

1784
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: wait to read this book. I think it's a movie.

1785
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm sure you have the movie rights to it,

1786
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,760
Speaker 1: and the second somebody somebody in Hollywood reads it, they'll

1787
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 1: make it into a movie. I appreciate it, and I

1788
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:48,680
Speaker 1: really appreciate joining us on the pod. No, thank you, guy.

1789
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:50,600
Speaker 1: This is awesome. It's great, you know, spending time and

1790
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:54,519
Speaker 1: catch it up and UH really appreciate this. You got

1791
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 1: him a man. Talk to you soon. Quick reminder, The

1792
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 1: Doug Godlip Here is daily three to six eastern, twelve

1793
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 1: three Pacific on Fox Sports Trader the I Heart Radio

1794
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 1: app series six seventeen and two oh three. My thanks

1795
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:10,920
Speaker 1: to Dan Grunfelt for join us. I hope you pick

1796
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 1: up that book. I hope you enjoyed it. I'm Doug Gottlieb.

1797
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:14,320
Speaker 1: This is all ball