WEBVTT - Batman Returns with Karen Han 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:03.920 On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.960 women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:13.080 Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef In best start 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:17.960 changing it with the Bell Cast, Jamie, life's a bitch, 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.720 and now so am I thanks for telling me. I 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:27.640 guess you're welcome. I just want you to know I 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:32.440 underwent a transformation recently, and we'll see I'm actually running 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.560 for mayor. But but if it's if things like go south, 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.720 even the smallest bit, the first little snaffhoo I encounter, 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.520 I will then pivot and threaten to kill everyone's son, 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:49.279 all of the small children. Oh boy, does he want 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:54.680 eighty quickly on that one? It is wild. Um. I'm 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.600 trying to figure out who I'm most spiritually connected to. 0:00:57.720 --> 0:00:59.840 I love I love Catwoman, but like, I don't know 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:03.720 if I could do what Catwoman does. I do feel 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:09.360 very connected to Christopher Walkin's big old son, you mean Chip, 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.319 who also talks like Christopher Walkin in his two lines 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:14.520 of dialogue. This is what I wanted to say. I'm 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.840 so sorry to interrupt it earlier, but literally, as soon 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.319 as they started talking, like, I completely forgotten that part 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.400 of his character is that he sounds like his father, 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.240 and so they're like get await that just run And 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.720 I'm like, oh, he's like doing a walk In impression. Yeah, 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.840 the idea that that would be a hereditary trait is 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:33.840 so funny. Or also like begs the question of like 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.520 how long did he spend only with his dad, so 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:38.880 that he's like, oh, that's like the normal way of talking, 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:44.160 like talk. Yeah, I had so many questions about the sun, 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.160 but the Sun was just like damseled time and time again. 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.840 And we don't talk in this community enough about damseling. 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.400 Christopher Walkins, big old son, his large adults. Yes, it's 0:01:56.400 --> 0:02:01.040 a disturbing trend in meeting. It's a very harmful trope 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.400 and I won't stand for it. Oh my gosh, I 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.640 think that I am team large Adults Son. But also 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.560 there's but I'm also team the clown that's like, hey, penguin, 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.080 are you sure we want to steal everyone's son? And 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:17.440 then just gets shot immediately. There's so many goods. I'm 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:20.040 also on the side of the stilts clown that gets 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.760 knocked over by the batmobile. God, this movie fucking rules. 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:28.320 It's the batmobile just has devices, specifically for knocking over 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:33.360 people on stilts. He's thought through everything, Yeah, every contingency. 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:35.400 He's like, we gotta have something in the batmobile for this. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.120 He's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, Alfred, what if And 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.919 it's gonna sound wild, but what if I needed to 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.919 feed a clown on stilts? We have to be ready. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.520 I really, I really don't think I appreciated just how 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.080 much work Alfred has to do until this movie specifically, 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:55.440 and also like I'm sure we'll get to this, but 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:57.280 they at the end when Batman picks up a cat, 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.040 you can see it in Alfred's face where he's like, well, 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:00.760 I know he's not going to take care of that thing, 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.520 So that's my cat now, Like I'm going to have 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.040 to do everything for this cat. Yeah, who's scooping the 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.760 litter at the end of the days? Are not Bruce Wayne? Alright? 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.960 Oh my gosh. This okay, Well, let's just get into it. 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.320 Welcome to the Becktel Cast. My name is Jamie LOFTEV. 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.720 My name is Caitlin Darante, and this is the show 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.400 where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.679 the Becktel test simply as a jumping off point, which 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:30.280 of course, is a media metric created by queer cartoonist 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.480 Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. Originally conceived 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:38.240 as a just kind of one off joke in Alison 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:42.120 Bechtel's comic Likes to Watch Out For, has since been 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.120 kind of co opted into the media metric that we 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:51.000 based an entire show on where Wow, yeah calling us out? 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:56.680 Um we Our version of this test is as follows. 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.280 Two people of a marginalized gender have to have names, 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.720 they have to speak to each other, and that conversation 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.200 has to be about something other than a man, and 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:10.840 ideally it's a narratively significant conversation, not just like a 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:15.560 throwaway exchange. Controversially, I think when Michelle Fiver talks to 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.560 her cats, we know is a woman because they're like hu, 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.719 they're communicating. All right, Well that's it for this episode 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:27.960 where yeah, We're done. I feel like the nonverbal, like 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.760 the nonverbal communication is strong and and could it be 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:36.440 more narratively impactful? No, no, brings her back to life 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:41.520 kind of amazing. That's pretty big, huge, Okay, so we 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:46.360 are we are covering up. Batman returns a Christmas movie 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.400 that came out in June. I thought was kind of interesting. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.680 But in any case, let's get into it because clearly 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:58.120 we are at the crossing with thoughts, so let's get 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:02.480 our guests in here. We must also cat on my 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:12.560 literally fly is right. I really whenever Flee is represented 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.800 in movies, it means a lot to me. He was 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.719 sitting in my lap the whole time, riveted. He loves 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.440 a movie cat as he should. That's wonderful. So Flee 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:24.840 is our honorary guest, but our real guest for this 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:30.560 episode is culture writer and screenwriter Karen Hahn. Hello, Hi, 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.200 I'm so excited to be here and also so excited 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.240 to talk about this movie with you guys, because again, 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:41.720 I think we're all going like fully feral as Catwoman 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.160 would want. Yeah, we're so excited that you sent us 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.560 because we were we reached out to Karen being like, hey, 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.360 we want to do you know, it's it's holiday movie block, 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.839 and I don't think that we've ever like brought this 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.880 movie up, even though it's overtly a holiday movie. Yeah, 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.279 I mean the thing I think just because like the 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.640 iconography of Catwoman and the Penguin are so strong, like 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.599 you tend to forget that there is like Christmas and Gotham. 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.240 And also I feel like they forgot about that again, 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.240 as you say, like they put it out in summer. 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:11.919 Basically they were I think they were like, we'll have 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.279 our like superhero Ted Poole. But then it's like, oh, 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.839 it's like actually a Christmas movie. But I mean that's 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:19.480 now when I watch it. I will watch it when 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.360 it's cold, right. It feels like that's how people view 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:25.640 it now. And it's also like such an it's like 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:30.599 an anti Christmas movie too. It's so fun. It's a 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.599 perfect film. It just gets better every time I watch it. 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.960 It really does. So what's your relationship your history with 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.480 the movie, Karen, I Well, it came out the year 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:43.839 I was born, so I did not watch it in 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.560 theaters or around the time when it debuted. But I 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:48.719 watch it sometime in the last ten years, which I 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.080 know is not a super specific time frame. But that said, 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:57.720 it must have been post like Nolan Batman um, because 0:06:57.760 --> 0:06:59.840 I know, like I started, I watched these like after 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:01.800 I saw the Christian Bail movie. But then watching this, 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.040 I was like, holy Cannoli, like this is really really good. 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.159 And also this and The Batman that precedes it with 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.480 Jack Nicholson at the Joker. It's just like there's so 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.560 much great stuff going on in both movies that it's 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:16.960 kind of shocking. And I was saying this to Caitlin 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.760 before we recorded that. It's like, I can't imagine any 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.640 exact green lighting this movie today, Like you would describe 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:24.880 some of the elements and be like, no, no, no, no 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:26.720 no no, we can't do that. That's too silly, or 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.240 that's too on the nose, or that's just weird. But 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.600 that's what makes this movie so fun and so memorable. 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.240 I'm realizing this is the third Batman movie we've covered 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:41.880 on the podcast, because we did the nineteen nine Batman 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.680 like six years ago. One of our first episode was 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.240 a really long time ago. I was I was like, 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.000 how did I see this movie? Originally? I was like, oh, 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.360 it was literally for this show the shows Brown ye yeah, yeah, 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.200 yeah yeah. And then we've covered The Dark Night a 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.440 few years ago, and so this is our this is 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.160 our third Batman episode, and I'm not mad about it. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.480 I mean, if there's one thing about Batman movies is 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.640 that there's five hundred million of them, and I like 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:12.680 a lot of them. So Jamie, what's your relationship with Batman? Returns? 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.280 So I had not seen this movie before. That's so exciting. 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.080 It was really Um, I have had a hell of 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.160 a couple of days just like watching this movie. Uh 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.840 two and a half times. I really yeah, I really 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:27.560 loved it. I feel like every time I say I 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:30.160 haven't seen a popular movie, I'd like to remind Bethel 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.520 cast listeners that when we started this show, a big 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.840 thrust of the promise was that Caitlin has seen a 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:37.800 lot of movies, and I had not seen a lot 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:41.000 of movies. Over the years we it doesn't come up 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.839 as much, but um, there's still I still haven't seen 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.120 a lot of movies. Um, but this, yeah, I've never 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:51.360 seen it before. But I really enjoyed the first Tim 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:55.480 Burton Batman that this was like hailed as like one 0:08:55.480 --> 0:09:00.360 of the best superhero slash just sequels in general, And yeah, 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.280 I totally agree with you, Karen, Like it's I don't know, 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.040 like this is like Tim Burton allowed to like Tim 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.640 Burton out at the peak of his Tim Burton is 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.400 with like the biggest budget possible, and I just but 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.480 the thing, it's like he nails it, Yeah, like it's 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:18.240 so it was really I think that, like I mean, 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.040 and this is not an original observation by a long shot, 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:25.840 but it's it's so like fun to watch a superhero 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:27.800 movie that's like fun to watch, and you kind of 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.760 forget that they were supposed to be fun to watch. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.920 And I like a lot of like serious superhero movies, 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.640 like I enjoyed, you know, Robert Pattinson Batman, but it's 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:41.319 not I wasn't laughing, you know, and I wasn't supposed 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.920 to be laughing. But like, this was so fun and 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.439 such a like cool otory kind of movie. I loved 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:52.160 all the behind the scenes stuff that was that they 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.760 had real penguins. They have real penguins and animatronic penguins 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:57.920 and people dressed up as penguins. They had every kind 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.960 of penguin's wild It was so and then I read um, 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.280 I just was like, how did we end up with 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.600 the circus? I had a theory and then I checked 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.560 it and I was right. I was like, I bet 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.360 that Tim Burton was just like I just want a 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.160 circus because you're like, a circus is very obviously not 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:19.120 necessary to the plot, and it was I guess that 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:23.120 it was originally written as a band of performance artists, 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.120 and Tim Burton's like, that's going to have to be 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.679 a circus, honey, I won't do it with the clowns. 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.160 It's gotta be back flipping clowns. A lot of them 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.600 are going to have machine guns. They wrote out Santa 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:39.560 with mischine guns, which would have been awesome. But yeah, 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.280 I just I fell in love with this movie a 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:47.840 million percent. It's so good. And also I brag just 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.880 saw Danny Elfman in concert a couple of weeks ago, 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.360 so I was like triple pumped because I forgot how 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.559 great the scores to his Batman movies are so good. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.240 He's such a weirdo and like the best way possible. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.760 And also like one of those composers where whenever you're listening, 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.640 you're like, oh, that's Danny Elfman. Like he makes no 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.280 effort I think to like blend in. He's just like 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:12.160 here in it, here's Danny, and you're like, here's Danny. 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.400 Danny Elfan loves a horn. He loves a French horn 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:20.280 and he loves it. He loves one of those. Yeah, 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.120 my second favorite Danny Elfman's core right next to of 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:27.720 course Spider Man two. Oh my god, his best and 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:29.720 the best of your movie. I also wanted to say, 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:31.400 I think this is the first time that I can 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.679 say I'm following in Alfred Molina's footsteps to some degree 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.080 to give him that he was I think when when 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:39.400 it was a nun that he was going to be 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.240 on this podcast, I like started crying, like I lost 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.120 my mind. Alfred Molina is our friend, and yeah, I 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:50.800 was a guest on this podcast. Famously are esteemed incredible. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:55.959 Haven't heard from them since, but all good, and we 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.280 we sold your on. But yeah, I hadn't seen this 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.160 movie before and I absolutely love it and I can't 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:07.680 wait to introduce it into my holiday rotation. Yeah, Caitlin, 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.320 what's your history with Batman Returns? I saw it for 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.560 the first time, probably as a freshman in college. I 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.000 was like, Oh, there's all these Batman movies I missed 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:18.360 when I was a kid. I gotta watch them, And 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:22.160 so I saw. I watched all four of the ones 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.160 from the late eighties into the nineties. It's a fun time. 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:30.920 Batman Returns is easily my favorite one, and I would 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.680 rank this probably my number two superhero movie of all 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:39.120 a time behind behind uh Spiderman into the Spider verse. 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.720 Oh see, I would put it Spiderman two is always 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:45.280 going to be number one for me. But this is 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.800 like top whatever, top of the list to percent pile 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.600 ten out of ten on Caitlin's rompo meter because Spider 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:56.679 versus kind of unbeatable in a Whalso, yeah, but yeah, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:01.839 incredible movie. I love it so much. There's lots to discuss, like, 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.679 oh my gosh, I can't wait to dive in the 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.280 beginning with why do they have a baby cage at 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.640 their house there? Do you feel like, oh, they like 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.400 went onto craigslist or like rich craigslist or whatever, and 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.080 we're like, we require a little baby cage if anyone 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:19.600 knows where we could get one of those, or they 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:21.960 like hired someone to make it after they saw that 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:25.080 their baby had little webby hands. They called their good 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:30.400 to Blacksmith. They're like, they commissioned. They've got a guy, 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.720 for sure. They definitely have a guy. It scares me 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.240 to think what rich people have access to. But anyway, 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.960 but this movie talks about that so much. This I 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.360 was so surprised at how deep into like social commentary 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.439 this in a way that like, yeah, I mean, I 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.760 guess I wouldn't say it doesn't feel it just like 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.440 fits into the story very naturally in a way that 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.840 sometimes I feel like it's not like a here's the 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.040 moral of our story kind of thing. It's just like 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:59.080 it's naturally baked into it, woven right in. Yeah. I 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.280 love it. So, yeah, I love this movie. I'm so 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.720 excited to talk about it. And um, should I do 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.520 the recap and we'll go from there. Yeah, Okay, there's 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.120 gonna be a lot of interjections because every frame of 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:17.120 this movie, I have something, there's something they have to 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.960 be said about everything. Okay, so let's take a quick 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.840 break first and then we'll come back to recap. So 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:33.240 we'll be right back, and we're back. I mean, it 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.880 is wild to open your movie in the way that 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.120 this one opens, where it's basically like a silent sequence 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.800 of these two very rich people deciding that they don't 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.840 want their baby anymore and then throwing it into the sewer. 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:50.160 You've got a rich regnant lady, yeah, screaming because her 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.600 baby doesn't look the way she wants it to look. 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.200 They put it in a cage, the baby eats a cat, 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.400 and then they throw the baby in the river, which 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.920 is wildly as it was. As the movie was going on, 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.560 I was like, oh my god, was the baby eating 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:10.960 a cat foreshadowing of him phasing off with Catwoman? I 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.440 think maybe? So. Also I was like, what is this 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:19.320 the creature from Shape of Water eating a cat also 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:23.840 in this movie? So and if he's not, he should be. Um, okay, 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.200 so we see this happen. Then we cut to thirty 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.160 three years later. So Danny Devita supposed to be thirty 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:36.440 three in the movie. Yes, okay, that made me laugh. 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.400 Actually that's a really good point. Also, I can see 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:46.240 my audio peaked, like, right, that's a really good question, big, 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:51.000 big question. I guess Penguin people age differently. Oh yeah, 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.160 he was like almost fifty already by the time. Yes, 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.200 this came out right, Yeah, I think so if you 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.240 live in the sewer age like a president is what 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.960 it is. Actually, you're right, Like he's got a lot 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:04.800 of city miles, a lot of road miles on him. 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.640 Like he's not lived an easy life. No, I get it, 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:15.560 he's had it rough. So it happens. Yeah, it's really funny. Yeah, 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.080 so he's he's dwelling in the sewers, people seem to 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.720 know about him, or there's rumors about his existence. This 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.600 you know, half man, half penguin person. It kind of 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:30.040 had Phantom of the Opera vibes. Yeah, absolutely, but like 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.640 more charming in a way. Also, his whole just his 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.200 underground water layer is like straight out of Phantom of 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.880 the Opera. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like in a 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:40.880 different world. You're like, oh, I could I could see 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.880 myself getting horny for the penguin, you know, in a 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:48.040 different world. I mean I was. I was kind of 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.200 horny for Colin Farrell penguin, but only because I knew 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.560 who was in there. Well, also like he was he 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.080 was funny, like the funniest part of the movie arguably 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:58.400 when they show him like the crime scene pictures. He's like, 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:02.720 oh come on, I was like, absolutely, yeah, he kind 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:04.440 of he kind of posted me pulled out a little 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:08.520 bit on that one. I liked it, but I don't 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.639 say I feel like I am like I am. I 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.120 love I love this penguin. I would let him into 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.240 my house, no question. I would say, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.680 absolutely I would. I would vote for him for mayor 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:21.080 it well before the pivot, but not post pivot. Before 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.480 I got. There's so many elements, I mean, and there's 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.679 like stuff about the penguin that we definitely need to 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.560 like talk about when when the moment comes. But there's 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.040 a lot to unpack. But his whole like I think, 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.640 like coming off the l a mayoral race, so you're like, oh, yeah, 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.640 just a guy trying to buy the seat of mayor 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:42.679 um and almost doing it. And I was like, is 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.399 this going to be Rick Caruso's pivot? I kind of 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.520 just hope he goes back to building malls literally why. 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.159 I watched this with my partner last night and he 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.119 was like, oh, like I would vote for the penguin 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.159 over Rick Caruso, And I was like, You're right, I 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.160 would too, Honestly, at least he's got a story. Yeah, 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:03.119 he's much like sympathetic and he's not like rich brain pilled. No, 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.720 he's he's so quick to go back to the zoo. Ultimately, 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.040 his loyalties lie with the zoo. The zoo a problematic 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.360 entity all its own, but who knows that better than 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.760 the penguin exactly what I mean, Like, I guess I 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.600 assume he's like freed all the penguins that work for him, 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:23.920 like even liberated them from the zoo, right, I think, yeah, 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.640 But then he uses them as ponds and his little um. That's, 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.920 you know, destroy a Gotham scheme. I am very conflicted 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.119 about this because he does that but only arguably in 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.119 a moment of extreme desperation, and then he is really 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.159 like caring of them, and then they are very caring 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.040 of him in turn, like they become they know to do, like, 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.239 oh ship, we gotta be pall bearers now, and like 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:48.000 they know to do. That's he makes me cry. I'm 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:52.000 not like siously makes me cry. They make the animatronic 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.440 penguins frown. I paused it. I was like, how is 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.359 this penguin frowning? This is wild? Like yeah, I thought 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.919 that was like it was unclear. I was like, the 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.800 penguins kind of have like some Minions vibes where you're like, 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:09.040 oh my god, they just are like invested there. But 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:13.520 I understand where you're coming. He's crew. I'm just always 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.920 looking for who's the grow of the movie here. I mean, 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:22.280 all throughout my recap is just full of Minions references. 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.320 So thank god, Oh terrific cool. Okay, Sorry sorry for 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.400 derailing immediately. We have a lot of thoughts about the penguins, specifically, 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.199 we'll get to them. Yeah, yeah, we'll wait. We'll be 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.120 so good, no worries. Okay. So then we meet Selina 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.199 Kyle played by Michelle Peiffer, who is the assistant to 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:47.520 a prominent businessman and like energy mogul Max Shrek played 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:51.320 by Christopher Walkin, And now my blood pressure is skyrocketing. 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.800 You're just like, oh, there's a character named Shrek. My 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.240 favorite quote that because I was like, okay, you know, look, 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:01.600 Shrek called sure, it's come it's gone, it's come back. 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.719 My favorite one was it's nice to see you out 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.000 in the real world away from Shrek. I'm like, I 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:13.119 feel like I could relate with that. People should. I 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:14.919 wish someone would say that to me. I would go 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:16.920 on a date with them that said, this is an 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:21.520 extremely Shrekkian movie. We got Shrek, we got minions, we 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:24.760 got it all, we got clowns. There's so much what 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:31.240 don't we have? Okay, So Max Shrek gives a speech 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:36.040 to the people of Gotham during a Christmas tree lighting event, 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:41.640 but he's interrupted when a bunch of goons or minions 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.760 think about that aka the Red Triangle gang. You need 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:51.719 to get like a Minion soundboard whatever you mentioned it. 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:53.919 It's just it's like not the air horn noise. But 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.119 I actually don't really know what I I mean. It sounds like, 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.240 but oh well, what don't they sound like that's a 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:06.879 good you know, nana bello, bellow banana, etcetera. I'm learning 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:13.159 so much. It's like the time of year holidays. You're like, oh, 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:17.760 my Spotify wrapped list is gonna really bumm me out soon. 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:21.800 Mine's always like horrendous, so bad, right, Like it's if 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.560 you're proud enough to share it, it's you don't have 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.760 an interior life. It should be really embarrassing. I feel like, yeah, 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.720 I definitely share it, like for public shaming purposes, right, 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.840 as a way of holding yourself accountable. Yeah, here's what 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.040 I did, I guess. Yeah, yeah, I think that it's 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.800 it's very possible because I played it a lot as 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:44.679 a joke, and then it's such a short track that 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:47.560 it comes on a lot. But there's a track on 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:51.919 my like go to playlist that's the Minions singing the 0:21:52.119 --> 0:22:02.199 Universal theme song. But I think I probably listened to 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:07.640 it three hundred times. It oh, a few years ago, 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.800 my most played song was the Lonesome Cowboy credits song 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:16.960 from Toy Story four, was like, this is song what 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:22.159 happened to you that year that you were really But 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:23.840 I also think that once I had stepped away from 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.919 my computer and left it on repeat without knowing it. 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:27.720 So that did check up the numbers. But that's not 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:29.200 to say that I didn't listen to it a lot, 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:32.240 because I definitely didn't. I gotta, really, I got to 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:34.600 revisit it. I can't conjure. What does it sound like? 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:44.320 He was aloneesome, cowboys beautiful? I'm crying there. I'm getting tried. 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:48.399 It's all about making friends. I've never sounded worse on 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:58.720 a podcast. Disagree, No, this is this is raw and uncut. Yeah, 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:03.120 all right. So the Indians, so Penguins minions show up 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:07.080 to re cavoc on the city. So the city lights 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:10.720 up the bat signal to summon Batman, of course, played 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:14.000 by Michael Keaton, who shows up and stops the minions. 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:19.119 He also saves Selena Kyle, who is being terrorized by 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:22.960 one of the minions. I know I said that we 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:27.080 would be so good dirty Custom recapt but number one. 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:29.120