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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef In best start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the Bell Cast, Jamie, life's a bitch,

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Speaker 1: and now so am I thanks for telling me. I

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Speaker 1: guess you're welcome. I just want you to know I

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Speaker 1: underwent a transformation recently, and we'll see I'm actually running

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Speaker 1: for mayor. But but if it's if things like go south,

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Speaker 1: even the smallest bit, the first little snaffhoo I encounter,

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Speaker 1: I will then pivot and threaten to kill everyone's son,

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Speaker 1: all of the small children. Oh boy, does he want

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Speaker 1: eighty quickly on that one? It is wild. Um. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out who I'm most spiritually connected to.

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Speaker 1: I love I love Catwoman, but like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I could do what Catwoman does. I do feel

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Speaker 1: very connected to Christopher Walkin's big old son, you mean Chip,

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Speaker 1: who also talks like Christopher Walkin in his two lines

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Speaker 1: of dialogue. This is what I wanted to say. I'm

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Speaker 1: so sorry to interrupt it earlier, but literally, as soon

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Speaker 1: as they started talking, like, I completely forgotten that part

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Speaker 1: of his character is that he sounds like his father,

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Speaker 1: and so they're like get await that just run And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, he's like doing a walk In impression. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the idea that that would be a hereditary trait is

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Speaker 1: so funny. Or also like begs the question of like

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Speaker 1: how long did he spend only with his dad, so

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Speaker 1: that he's like, oh, that's like the normal way of talking,

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Speaker 1: like talk. Yeah, I had so many questions about the sun,

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Speaker 1: but the Sun was just like damseled time and time again.

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Speaker 1: And we don't talk in this community enough about damseling.

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Speaker 1: Christopher Walkins, big old son, his large adults. Yes, it's

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Speaker 1: a disturbing trend in meeting. It's a very harmful trope

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Speaker 1: and I won't stand for it. Oh my gosh, I

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Speaker 1: think that I am team large Adults Son. But also

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Speaker 1: there's but I'm also team the clown that's like, hey, penguin,

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Speaker 1: are you sure we want to steal everyone's son? And

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Speaker 1: then just gets shot immediately. There's so many goods. I'm

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Speaker 1: also on the side of the stilts clown that gets

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Speaker 1: knocked over by the batmobile. God, this movie fucking rules.

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Speaker 1: It's the batmobile just has devices, specifically for knocking over

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Speaker 1: people on stilts. He's thought through everything, Yeah, every contingency.

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Speaker 1: He's like, we gotta have something in the batmobile for this.

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Speaker 1: He's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, Alfred, what if And

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Speaker 1: it's gonna sound wild, but what if I needed to

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Speaker 1: feed a clown on stilts? We have to be ready.

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Speaker 1: I really, I really don't think I appreciated just how

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Speaker 1: much work Alfred has to do until this movie specifically,

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Speaker 1: and also like I'm sure we'll get to this, but

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Speaker 1: they at the end when Batman picks up a cat,

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Speaker 1: you can see it in Alfred's face where he's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I know he's not going to take care of that thing,

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Speaker 1: So that's my cat now, Like I'm going to have

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Speaker 1: to do everything for this cat. Yeah, who's scooping the

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Speaker 1: litter at the end of the days? Are not Bruce Wayne? Alright?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. This okay, Well, let's just get into it.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Becktel Cast. My name is Jamie LOFTEV.

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Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Darante, and this is the show

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Speaker 1: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using

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Speaker 1: the Becktel test simply as a jumping off point, which

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Speaker 1: of course, is a media metric created by queer cartoonist

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Speaker 1: Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. Originally conceived

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Speaker 1: as a just kind of one off joke in Alison

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Speaker 1: Bechtel's comic Likes to Watch Out For, has since been

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Speaker 1: kind of co opted into the media metric that we

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Speaker 1: based an entire show on where Wow, yeah calling us out?

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Speaker 1: Um we Our version of this test is as follows.

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Speaker 1: Two people of a marginalized gender have to have names,

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Speaker 1: they have to speak to each other, and that conversation

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Speaker 1: has to be about something other than a man, and

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Speaker 1: ideally it's a narratively significant conversation, not just like a

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Speaker 1: throwaway exchange. Controversially, I think when Michelle Fiver talks to

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Speaker 1: her cats, we know is a woman because they're like hu,

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Speaker 1: they're communicating. All right, Well that's it for this episode

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Speaker 1: where yeah, We're done. I feel like the nonverbal, like

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Speaker 1: the nonverbal communication is strong and and could it be

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Speaker 1: more narratively impactful? No, no, brings her back to life

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Speaker 1: kind of amazing. That's pretty big, huge, Okay, so we

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Speaker 1: are we are covering up. Batman returns a Christmas movie

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Speaker 1: that came out in June. I thought was kind of interesting.

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Speaker 1: But in any case, let's get into it because clearly

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Speaker 1: we are at the crossing with thoughts, so let's get

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Speaker 1: our guests in here. We must also cat on my

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Speaker 1: literally fly is right. I really whenever Flee is represented

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Speaker 1: in movies, it means a lot to me. He was

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Speaker 1: sitting in my lap the whole time, riveted. He loves

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Speaker 1: a movie cat as he should. That's wonderful. So Flee

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Speaker 1: is our honorary guest, but our real guest for this

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Speaker 1: episode is culture writer and screenwriter Karen Hahn. Hello, Hi,

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be here and also so excited

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Speaker 1: to talk about this movie with you guys, because again,

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Speaker 1: I think we're all going like fully feral as Catwoman

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Speaker 1: would want. Yeah, we're so excited that you sent us

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Speaker 1: because we were we reached out to Karen being like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we want to do you know, it's it's holiday movie block,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think that we've ever like brought this

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Speaker 1: movie up, even though it's overtly a holiday movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean the thing I think just because like the

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Speaker 1: iconography of Catwoman and the Penguin are so strong, like

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Speaker 1: you tend to forget that there is like Christmas and Gotham.

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Speaker 1: And also I feel like they forgot about that again,

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Speaker 1: as you say, like they put it out in summer.

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Speaker 1: Basically they were I think they were like, we'll have

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Speaker 1: our like superhero Ted Poole. But then it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's like actually a Christmas movie. But I mean that's

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Speaker 1: now when I watch it. I will watch it when

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Speaker 1: it's cold, right. It feels like that's how people view

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Speaker 1: it now. And it's also like such an it's like

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Speaker 1: an anti Christmas movie too. It's so fun. It's a

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Speaker 1: perfect film. It just gets better every time I watch it.

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Speaker 1: It really does. So what's your relationship your history with

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Speaker 1: the movie, Karen, I Well, it came out the year

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Speaker 1: I was born, so I did not watch it in

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Speaker 1: theaters or around the time when it debuted. But I

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Speaker 1: watch it sometime in the last ten years, which I

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Speaker 1: know is not a super specific time frame. But that said,

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Speaker 1: it must have been post like Nolan Batman um, because

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Speaker 1: I know, like I started, I watched these like after

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Speaker 1: I saw the Christian Bail movie. But then watching this,

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Speaker 1: I was like, holy Cannoli, like this is really really good.

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Speaker 1: And also this and The Batman that precedes it with

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Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson at the Joker. It's just like there's so

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Speaker 1: much great stuff going on in both movies that it's

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Speaker 1: kind of shocking. And I was saying this to Caitlin

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Speaker 1: before we recorded that. It's like, I can't imagine any

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Speaker 1: exact green lighting this movie today, Like you would describe

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Speaker 1: some of the elements and be like, no, no, no, no

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Speaker 1: no no, we can't do that. That's too silly, or

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Speaker 1: that's too on the nose, or that's just weird. But

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Speaker 1: that's what makes this movie so fun and so memorable.

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Speaker 1: I'm realizing this is the third Batman movie we've covered

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, because we did the nineteen nine Batman

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Speaker 1: like six years ago. One of our first episode was

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Speaker 1: a really long time ago. I was I was like,

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Speaker 1: how did I see this movie? Originally? I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it was literally for this show the shows Brown ye yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And then we've covered The Dark Night a

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Speaker 1: few years ago, and so this is our this is

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Speaker 1: our third Batman episode, and I'm not mad about it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if there's one thing about Batman movies is

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Speaker 1: that there's five hundred million of them, and I like

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Speaker 1: a lot of them. So Jamie, what's your relationship with Batman? Returns?

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Speaker 1: So I had not seen this movie before. That's so exciting.

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Speaker 1: It was really Um, I have had a hell of

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Speaker 1: a couple of days just like watching this movie. Uh

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Speaker 1: two and a half times. I really yeah, I really

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Speaker 1: loved it. I feel like every time I say I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen a popular movie, I'd like to remind Bethel

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Speaker 1: cast listeners that when we started this show, a big

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Speaker 1: thrust of the promise was that Caitlin has seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of movies, and I had not seen a lot

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Speaker 1: of movies. Over the years we it doesn't come up

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Speaker 1: as much, but um, there's still I still haven't seen

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Speaker 1: a lot of movies. Um, but this, yeah, I've never

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Speaker 1: seen it before. But I really enjoyed the first Tim

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Speaker 1: Burton Batman that this was like hailed as like one

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Speaker 1: of the best superhero slash just sequels in general, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I totally agree with you, Karen, Like it's I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like this is like Tim Burton allowed to like Tim

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Speaker 1: Burton out at the peak of his Tim Burton is

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Speaker 1: with like the biggest budget possible, and I just but

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Speaker 1: the thing, it's like he nails it, Yeah, like it's

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Speaker 1: so it was really I think that, like I mean,

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Speaker 1: and this is not an original observation by a long shot,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's so like fun to watch a superhero

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Speaker 1: movie that's like fun to watch, and you kind of

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Speaker 1: forget that they were supposed to be fun to watch.

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Speaker 1: And I like a lot of like serious superhero movies,

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Speaker 1: like I enjoyed, you know, Robert Pattinson Batman, but it's

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Speaker 1: not I wasn't laughing, you know, and I wasn't supposed

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Speaker 1: to be laughing. But like, this was so fun and

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Speaker 1: such a like cool otory kind of movie. I loved

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Speaker 1: all the behind the scenes stuff that was that they

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Speaker 1: had real penguins. They have real penguins and animatronic penguins

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Speaker 1: and people dressed up as penguins. They had every kind

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Speaker 1: of penguin's wild It was so and then I read um,

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Speaker 1: I just was like, how did we end up with

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Speaker 1: the circus? I had a theory and then I checked

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Speaker 1: it and I was right. I was like, I bet

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Speaker 1: that Tim Burton was just like I just want a

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Speaker 1: circus because you're like, a circus is very obviously not

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Speaker 1: necessary to the plot, and it was I guess that

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Speaker 1: it was originally written as a band of performance artists,

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Speaker 1: and Tim Burton's like, that's going to have to be

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Speaker 1: a circus, honey, I won't do it with the clowns.

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Speaker 1: It's gotta be back flipping clowns. A lot of them

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Speaker 1: are going to have machine guns. They wrote out Santa

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Speaker 1: with mischine guns, which would have been awesome. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just I fell in love with this movie a

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Speaker 1: million percent. It's so good. And also I brag just

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Speaker 1: saw Danny Elfman in concert a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: so I was like triple pumped because I forgot how

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Speaker 1: great the scores to his Batman movies are so good.

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Speaker 1: He's such a weirdo and like the best way possible.

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Speaker 1: And also like one of those composers where whenever you're listening,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, that's Danny Elfman. Like he makes no

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Speaker 1: effort I think to like blend in. He's just like

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Speaker 1: here in it, here's Danny, and you're like, here's Danny.

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Speaker 1: Danny Elfan loves a horn. He loves a French horn

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Speaker 1: and he loves it. He loves one of those. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my second favorite Danny Elfman's core right next to of

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Speaker 1: course Spider Man two. Oh my god, his best and

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Speaker 1: the best of your movie. I also wanted to say,

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Speaker 1: I think this is the first time that I can

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Speaker 1: say I'm following in Alfred Molina's footsteps to some degree

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Speaker 1: to give him that he was I think when when

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Speaker 1: it was a nun that he was going to be

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Speaker 1: on this podcast, I like started crying, like I lost

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Speaker 1: my mind. Alfred Molina is our friend, and yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was a guest on this podcast. Famously are esteemed incredible.

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Speaker 1: Haven't heard from them since, but all good, and we

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Speaker 1: we sold your on. But yeah, I hadn't seen this

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Speaker 1: movie before and I absolutely love it and I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to introduce it into my holiday rotation. Yeah, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: what's your history with Batman Returns? I saw it for

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Speaker 1: the first time, probably as a freshman in college. I

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, there's all these Batman movies I missed

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Speaker 1: when I was a kid. I gotta watch them, And

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Speaker 1: so I saw. I watched all four of the ones

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Speaker 1: from the late eighties into the nineties. It's a fun time.

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Speaker 1: Batman Returns is easily my favorite one, and I would

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Speaker 1: rank this probably my number two superhero movie of all

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Speaker 1: a time behind behind uh Spiderman into the Spider verse.

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Speaker 1: Oh see, I would put it Spiderman two is always

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Speaker 1: going to be number one for me. But this is

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Speaker 1: like top whatever, top of the list to percent pile

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Speaker 1: ten out of ten on Caitlin's rompo meter because Spider

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Speaker 1: versus kind of unbeatable in a Whalso, yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: incredible movie. I love it so much. There's lots to discuss, like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can't wait to dive in the

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Speaker 1: beginning with why do they have a baby cage at

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Speaker 1: their house there? Do you feel like, oh, they like

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Speaker 1: went onto craigslist or like rich craigslist or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: we're like, we require a little baby cage if anyone

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Speaker 1: knows where we could get one of those, or they

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Speaker 1: like hired someone to make it after they saw that

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Speaker 1: their baby had little webby hands. They called their good

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Speaker 1: to Blacksmith. They're like, they commissioned. They've got a guy,

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Speaker 1: for sure. They definitely have a guy. It scares me

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Speaker 1: to think what rich people have access to. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: but this movie talks about that so much. This I

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Speaker 1: was so surprised at how deep into like social commentary

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Speaker 1: this in a way that like, yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess I wouldn't say it doesn't feel it just like

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Speaker 1: fits into the story very naturally in a way that

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Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like it's not like a here's the

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Speaker 1: moral of our story kind of thing. It's just like

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Speaker 1: it's naturally baked into it, woven right in. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: love it. So, yeah, I love this movie. I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. And um, should I do

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Speaker 1: the recap and we'll go from there. Yeah, Okay, there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of interjections because every frame of

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Speaker 1: this movie, I have something, there's something they have to

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Speaker 1: be said about everything. Okay, so let's take a quick

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Speaker 1: break first and then we'll come back to recap. So

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Speaker 1: we'll be right back, and we're back. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: is wild to open your movie in the way that

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Speaker 1: this one opens, where it's basically like a silent sequence

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Speaker 1: of these two very rich people deciding that they don't

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Speaker 1: want their baby anymore and then throwing it into the sewer.

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Speaker 1: You've got a rich regnant lady, yeah, screaming because her

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Speaker 1: baby doesn't look the way she wants it to look.

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Speaker 1: They put it in a cage, the baby eats a cat,

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Speaker 1: and then they throw the baby in the river, which

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Speaker 1: is wildly as it was. As the movie was going on,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, was the baby eating

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Speaker 1: a cat foreshadowing of him phasing off with Catwoman? I

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Speaker 1: think maybe? So. Also I was like, what is this

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Speaker 1: the creature from Shape of Water eating a cat also

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Speaker 1: in this movie? So and if he's not, he should be. Um, okay,

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Speaker 1: so we see this happen. Then we cut to thirty

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Speaker 1: three years later. So Danny Devita supposed to be thirty

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Speaker 1: three in the movie. Yes, okay, that made me laugh.

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Speaker 1: Actually that's a really good point. Also, I can see

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Speaker 1: my audio peaked, like, right, that's a really good question, big,

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Speaker 1: big question. I guess Penguin people age differently. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was like almost fifty already by the time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this came out right, Yeah, I think so if you

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Speaker 1: live in the sewer age like a president is what

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Speaker 1: it is. Actually, you're right, Like he's got a lot

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Speaker 1: of city miles, a lot of road miles on him.

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Speaker 1: Like he's not lived an easy life. No, I get it,

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Speaker 1: he's had it rough. So it happens. Yeah, it's really funny. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he's he's dwelling in the sewers, people seem to

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Speaker 1: know about him, or there's rumors about his existence. This

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Speaker 1: you know, half man, half penguin person. It kind of

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Speaker 1: had Phantom of the Opera vibes. Yeah, absolutely, but like

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Speaker 1: more charming in a way. Also, his whole just his

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Speaker 1: underground water layer is like straight out of Phantom of

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Speaker 1: the Opera. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like in a

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Speaker 1: different world. You're like, oh, I could I could see

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Speaker 1: myself getting horny for the penguin, you know, in a

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Speaker 1: different world. I mean I was. I was kind of

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Speaker 1: horny for Colin Farrell penguin, but only because I knew

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Speaker 1: who was in there. Well, also like he was he

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Speaker 1: was funny, like the funniest part of the movie arguably

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Speaker 1: when they show him like the crime scene pictures. He's like,

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Speaker 1: oh come on, I was like, absolutely, yeah, he kind

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Speaker 1: of he kind of posted me pulled out a little

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Speaker 1: bit on that one. I liked it, but I don't

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Speaker 1: say I feel like I am like I am. I

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Speaker 1: love I love this penguin. I would let him into

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Speaker 1: my house, no question. I would say, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely I would. I would vote for him for mayor

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Speaker 1: it well before the pivot, but not post pivot. Before

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Speaker 1: I got. There's so many elements, I mean, and there's

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Speaker 1: like stuff about the penguin that we definitely need to

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Speaker 1: like talk about when when the moment comes. But there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to unpack. But his whole like I think,

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Speaker 1: like coming off the l a mayoral race, so you're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: just a guy trying to buy the seat of mayor

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Speaker 1: um and almost doing it. And I was like, is

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Speaker 1: this going to be Rick Caruso's pivot? I kind of

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Speaker 1: just hope he goes back to building malls literally why.

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Speaker 1: I watched this with my partner last night and he

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, like I would vote for the penguin

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Speaker 1: over Rick Caruso, And I was like, You're right, I

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Speaker 1: would too, Honestly, at least he's got a story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's much like sympathetic and he's not like rich brain pilled. No,

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Speaker 1: he's he's so quick to go back to the zoo. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: his loyalties lie with the zoo. The zoo a problematic

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Speaker 1: entity all its own, but who knows that better than

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Speaker 1: the penguin exactly what I mean, Like, I guess I

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Speaker 1: assume he's like freed all the penguins that work for him,

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Speaker 1: like even liberated them from the zoo, right, I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: But then he uses them as ponds and his little um. That's,

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Speaker 1: you know, destroy a Gotham scheme. I am very conflicted

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Speaker 1: about this because he does that but only arguably in

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Speaker 1: a moment of extreme desperation, and then he is really

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Speaker 1: like caring of them, and then they are very caring

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Speaker 1: of him in turn, like they become they know to do, like,

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Speaker 1: oh ship, we gotta be pall bearers now, and like

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Speaker 1: they know to do. That's he makes me cry. I'm

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Speaker 1: not like siously makes me cry. They make the animatronic

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Speaker 1: penguins frown. I paused it. I was like, how is

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Speaker 1: this penguin frowning? This is wild? Like yeah, I thought

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Speaker 1: that was like it was unclear. I was like, the

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Speaker 1: penguins kind of have like some Minions vibes where you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, they just are like invested there. But

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Speaker 1: I understand where you're coming. He's crew. I'm just always

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Speaker 1: looking for who's the grow of the movie here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: all throughout my recap is just full of Minions references.

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Speaker 1: So thank god, Oh terrific cool. Okay, Sorry sorry for

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Speaker 1: derailing immediately. We have a lot of thoughts about the penguins, specifically,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to them. Yeah, yeah, we'll wait. We'll be

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Speaker 1: so good, no worries. Okay. So then we meet Selina

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Speaker 1: Kyle played by Michelle Peiffer, who is the assistant to

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Speaker 1: a prominent businessman and like energy mogul Max Shrek played

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Speaker 1: by Christopher Walkin, And now my blood pressure is skyrocketing.

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Speaker 1: You're just like, oh, there's a character named Shrek. My

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Speaker 1: favorite quote that because I was like, okay, you know, look,

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Speaker 1: Shrek called sure, it's come it's gone, it's come back.

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Speaker 1: My favorite one was it's nice to see you out

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Speaker 1: in the real world away from Shrek. I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: feel like I could relate with that. People should. I

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Speaker 1: wish someone would say that to me. I would go

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Speaker 1: on a date with them that said, this is an

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Speaker 1: extremely Shrekkian movie. We got Shrek, we got minions, we

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Speaker 1: got it all, we got clowns. There's so much what

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Speaker 1: don't we have? Okay, So Max Shrek gives a speech

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Speaker 1: to the people of Gotham during a Christmas tree lighting event,

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Speaker 1: but he's interrupted when a bunch of goons or minions

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Speaker 1: think about that aka the Red Triangle gang. You need

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Speaker 1: to get like a Minion soundboard whatever you mentioned it.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's like not the air horn noise. But

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Speaker 1: I actually don't really know what I I mean. It sounds like,

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Speaker 1: but oh well, what don't they sound like that's a

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Speaker 1: good you know, nana bello, bellow banana, etcetera. I'm learning

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Speaker 1: so much. It's like the time of year holidays. You're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: my Spotify wrapped list is gonna really bumm me out soon.

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Speaker 1: Mine's always like horrendous, so bad, right, Like it's if

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Speaker 1: you're proud enough to share it, it's you don't have

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Speaker 1: an interior life. It should be really embarrassing. I feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I definitely share it, like for public shaming purposes, right,

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Speaker 1: as a way of holding yourself accountable. Yeah, here's what

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Speaker 1: I did, I guess. Yeah, yeah, I think that it's

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Speaker 1: it's very possible because I played it a lot as

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Speaker 1: a joke, and then it's such a short track that

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Speaker 1: it comes on a lot. But there's a track on

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Speaker 1: my like go to playlist that's the Minions singing the

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Speaker 1: Universal theme song. But I think I probably listened to

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Speaker 1: it three hundred times. It oh, a few years ago,

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00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: my most played song was the Lonesome Cowboy credits song

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Speaker 1: from Toy Story four, was like, this is song what

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Speaker 1: happened to you that year that you were really But

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Speaker 1: I also think that once I had stepped away from

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Speaker 1: my computer and left it on repeat without knowing it.

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Speaker 1: So that did check up the numbers. But that's not

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Speaker 1: to say that I didn't listen to it a lot,

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Speaker 1: because I definitely didn't. I gotta, really, I got to

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Speaker 1: revisit it. I can't conjure. What does it sound like?

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Speaker 1: He was aloneesome, cowboys beautiful? I'm crying there. I'm getting tried.

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Speaker 1: It's all about making friends. I've never sounded worse on

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Speaker 1: a podcast. Disagree, No, this is this is raw and uncut. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right. So the Indians, so Penguins minions show up

395
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Speaker 1: to re cavoc on the city. So the city lights

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00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: up the bat signal to summon Batman, of course, played

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Speaker 1: by Michael Keaton, who shows up and stops the minions.

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Speaker 1: He also saves Selena Kyle, who is being terrorized by

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Speaker 1: one of the minions. I know I said that we

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Speaker 1: would be so good dirty Custom recapt but number one.

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Speaker 1: I pointed this out again to Gala before the before

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Speaker 1: recording already, but I wore my Michael Keaton shirt specifically

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Speaker 1: for this recording. There's a um And also the shot

404
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: of him when the bad signal is lit is like

405
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: one of the best shots I've ever seen, where it

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Speaker 1: goes off on the wall of Wayne Manor and then

407
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: like he stands up in front of it and you're like,

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00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: it's just so good, It's so good, amazing. It also revided.

409
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, superhero stories like it's fun

410
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: when they're very simple too, because you're like, what is

411
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Speaker 1: Bruce Wayne in the middle of doing. Is he just

412
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: like hoping that someone will commit a crime so he

413
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,239
Speaker 1: has something to do. He's just sitting there, He's just

414
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: hanging out. There's not a light on in the room.

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00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: There's no evidence as to him having hobbies. No, No,

416
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Speaker 1: I think that that's a beautiful I was like, let

417
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: me give the scriptway too much credit and be like, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's them saying that, you know, billionaires have no

419
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: interior life. They're all essentially sitting in a dark room

420
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: at all times. I mean, yeah, I think you're right,

421
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: but who am I to castones? I also do that

422
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: mark like, yeah, people of all classes can sit in

423
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: a dark room. It's a very egalitarian. Yeah, it's a

424
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: great equalized right, yap wow. Okay, So during this havoc

425
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: that the minions are unleashing Max, Shrek is kidnapped by

426
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: the Penguin, who, of course is played by Danny de Vito,

427
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: and he is mad at Shrek for polluting the city

428
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: and he blackmails Shrek into helping Penguin so hard not

429
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: to make a joke, he's making Gotham his swamp. Yes,

430
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: he really is. Yeah, Gotham is getting a bit swampy.

431
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: Who's Shrek doesn't? Really? I think part of the I

432
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: think his son's son is Donkey, is his Donkey. He

433
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: is kind of his Donkey, which makes it even more

434
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: amazing when Shrek is like, t Penguin, take me. Yeah,

435
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: it lends new depths to the motion picture Shrek. Now,

436
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: Shrek would totally do that for Donkey. Also, he has

437
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: I've seen it evidence. Okay. I have to say I

438
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: love how talkatively is and he's such a cute voice.

439
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: It's so sweet. He knows that Catwoman is about to

440
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: appear on screen. Yeah, Flee loves to chat. He loves

441
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: to he loves to weigh in, and he knows that

442
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: this is a good time. Has he always been a

443
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: very talkative count? Yeah, I've never I've only had like

444
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: mostly coincidentally, I've I've had three black cats in my lifetime,

445
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: and I've never had one that made any noise. And

446
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: Flee is so loud. He always has been. He's a

447
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 1: he's a screamer. It's wonderful. Okay, So Penguin blackmails Shrek

448
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: into helping him figure out his backstory. He wants to

449
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: know where he came from, who his parents were, what

450
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: his real name is, and he no longer wants to

451
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: be seen as a monster. Meanwhile, Selena has to go

452
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: back to the office where she discovers dirt on Shrek

453
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: and all of his shady business stuff, and just then

454
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: Shrek shows up and realizes Selena knows all of this

455
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: incriminating information about him. So do you think he wants

456
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: her to get out of his swamp? There he kind

457
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: of shows up and he's like, get out of swan exactly, Yeah,

458
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: by Shrek at the beginning of Shrek one exactly, And

459
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: he gets her out of his swamp by throwing her

460
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: out of a window. That scene is awesome. So she

461
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 1: falls to the ground. She is lying there, presumably dead,

462
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: but then a bunch of street cats, and I like

463
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: to think that they are you know, rum Tum Tugger,

464
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: busta for Jones, magical, Mr Mustaphele every bed. Wow, everyone

465
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: showed up. I'm as a skimball shanks girly I but

466
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: I maybe he comes later when there's a random circus

467
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: train in the middle of Gotham. Because the railway cat

468
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: he has a job is a union man. I love him. Okay,

469
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: So these cats from the movie Cats seem to bring

470
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: Selena back to life. She returns home. She's chugging milk,

471
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: she's throwing away her stuffed anim she makes a new

472
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: outfit because guess what, she's catwoman now. She ruins her

473
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: dollhouse question mark, Yes, she makes it goth. I was

474
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: watching this and I was like, I do think, like

475
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: every woman goes through this at some point in her

476
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: life means like you either become goth or you become emo.

477
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: It's like you become like adjacent to Then to that scene,

478
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: every woman goes through this, every single woman. She turns

479
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: her hello there sign into hell here. I cheered iconic,

480
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: I cheered so good. There's so much fun like little

481
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: plants and payoffs in this movie that you're just like,

482
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: who thought of that? It's the production I forget the

483
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: production designers, like the Tim Burton guy bow something. I'll

484
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: look it up. Okay, So she's becoming Catwoman. Meanwhile, Penguin

485
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: stage as a situation where he saves a kidnapped baby

486
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: at a public event so that he can save it

487
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: and be seen as a hero by the people of Gotham,

488
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: which works, and everyone loves Penguin now. And he goes

489
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: to city hall or whatever, and he learns that his

490
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: real name is Oswald cobble Pot. He learns who his

491
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: parents were, but he's like, I forgive them for what

492
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: they did to me, and so people continue to sympathize

493
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: with him. But Bruce Wayne slash Batman, who by the way,

494
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: it were like thirty six ish minutes into the movie,

495
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: and it's only at this point when he actually starts

496
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: to become a character, because prior to that he's barely

497
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: in the movie. He's kind of like not in the

498
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: movie very much, and it doesn't know that that was Yeah,

499
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I get why that was Like a criticism

500
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: of the movie at the time, but in retrospect you're

501
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,719
Speaker 1: like he's sort of the most boring person. It works,

502
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: and also like I don't know, that's the fun thing

503
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: about his Michael Keaton is also a weird choice for Batman,

504
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: but like one that I love in a back but

505
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: like he's like a little awkward. He doesn't have like

506
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: the leading man features that I feel like everyone else

507
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: they want Batman to have, even just like thinking about

508
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: Batman the previous movie where like the Joker's goons or

509
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: whatever come to his house and he's like, you want

510
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: to get crazy, Let the Jokers Minions You're correct, yes,

511
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: the Minions Banana. They come to his house, and then

512
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: he like has this moment where he's also being like

513
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: very kind of aggressive towards them, which is not I think,

514
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: like you never see Batman and other movies being like uncool,

515
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: but he's so is as Michael Keaton, and like the

516
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: whole first scene or the second scene where he meets

517
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: Selena and he is just totally tripping over his words

518
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: just because he's instantly like, oh, she's like she's hot.

519
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: I have to talk to her. It's so good. It's

520
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: I I And again it's like it's like in a

521
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: modern context like scans more with like how a weird

522
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: guy with too much money would probably act like yeah,

523
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: I love you alive girl. Yeah, yes, okay, so so

524
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: Bruce slash Batman. He does not buy this whole like

525
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: Penguin is a sympathetic character thing. He thinks Penguin is

526
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: up to no good. Meanwhile, Catwoman goes out on the

527
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: streets and starts being a vigilante, not hero exactly, because

528
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: Catwoman is famously sort of a good guy and sort

529
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: of a bad guy. Maybe that's over oversimplifying. We will

530
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: talk about her at length. But she blows up a store,

531
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: but it's like empty, it's empty, and it's Shreks store,

532
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: So we're like, yeah, you're like, oh, I guess that

533
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: was evictiblest crime. It's fine. So Catwoman is on the

534
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: streets now. The next day she shows up to work

535
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: as Selena, and Shrek is surprised to see her back

536
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: in his swamp because he thought he killed her. Yeah,

537
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: he thought he drowned her in the swamp. Well guess what.

538
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: But also like shockingly unconcerned that a woman who has

539
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: fallen a significant distance out of a window is just

540
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: like back and not talking about that, and he says

541
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: something like, well, if she tries to blackmail me, I'll

542
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: push her out of a higher window. But until then

543
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: I have better fish to fry. Yeah, it's like the

544
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: shreky and logic here is kind of all over the

545
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: because he's like, okay, so he didn't check to make

546
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: sure she had died, right, Like, if he looked out

547
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: the window two minutes after that, he'd see her body

548
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: being swarmed by cats, which is highly unusual. But you know,

549
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: he's a he's a careless guys. I was like, okay, whatever,

550
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: but like there are things that happened throughout the movie

551
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: that you just think is going to get a big

552
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: reaction from him, and he just does not blink, such

553
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: as when Penguin bites someone's nose off. He's like, comes

554
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: over here, what sidebar? And I was like, oh my god,

555
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: he just like does not Yeah. I mean I don't

556
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: hate it, but I was like, yeah, sometimes his reactions

557
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: to things. I was like, well, I thought that would

558
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: have mattered more to you. I think the nose meaning

559
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: is especially funny because every one else freaks out and

560
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: then only Christopher walk and he's like all right, whatever,

561
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: he literally takes a society. He's like, I think we

562
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: should run you for mayor. It's really funny. Oh that's

563
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: so good. Okay. So Selena is back at work and

564
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: she meets Bruce Wayne, who is there for a meeting

565
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: because Shrek wants Bruce to help fund his new power plant,

566
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: which is actually not a power plant, is going to

567
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: suck energy out of Gotham rather than generating energy anyway.

568
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,719
Speaker 1: He they meet and there seems to be a spark

569
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: between Bruce and Selina. And then meanwhile Shrek is trying

570
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: to have Oswald cobble Pot run for mayor because the

571
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: current mayor of Gotham is trying to stop shreks bogus

572
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: power plant. I think. But they need a catalyst to

573
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: drive out the current mayor some kind of like city crisis.

574
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: So Penguin's minions unleash more chaos on the streets, which

575
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: is basically just like assertain they just like militarized the

576
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: clowns or the penguins anytime they need shipped to get

577
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: stirred up there, like all right, all right, We're just

578
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: going to give the penguins guns and people will not

579
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: know what to do. And it's true they don't know

580
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: what to do. It's true panic. Yeah, so the clown

581
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: gymnasts are flipping around and just causing chaos. Separately, Catwoman

582
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: is wreaking her own havoc on the city. She This

583
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: is when she blows up Shreks department store. Then Batman

584
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: and Catwoman have like a face to face for the

585
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: first time. They fight for a bit. They then Catwoman

586
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 1: each I mean, well, she looks It's like a very

587
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: sexually charged movie. Oh it is the horny ist movie

588
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. There's like a scene where he says

589
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: like I'm hard, like you're just there are a number

590
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: of times where I'm pretty sure she puts her hand

591
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: on his penis and he's just like all right. I

592
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: wonder if that's a rating thing where it's like you

593
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: can imply that her hand is there, but if he

594
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: reacts to it, then you're getting hard are then? Yeah,

595
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: I'm not sure who knows. I didn't hate it, but again,

596
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: very very horny movie, and for younger me definitely, I

597
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: was like, oh wow, like what is going on here?

598
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: So then Catwoman goes to Penguin to be like, hey,

599
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: help me get rid of Batman and Penguin's like sounds great,

600
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: he's horned up. Oh yeah, there's that scene that ends

601
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: with like, I mean because it's like, as the movie

602
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: goes on, Catwoman's horny nous just they just keep kind

603
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: of cranking it up and up and up and up.

604
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: To be fair, they're also doing that for Penguin. Like

605
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: everyone's getting hornier as it goes but like Catwoman's becoming

606
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: a very you know, like specific kind of horny. But

607
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: there's a scene that ends with her licking herself and

608
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: Penguin just sitting on the bed going like, were just horny.

609
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: He's been in the sewer for thirty three years, as

610
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: we now know, Like we don't know how much action

611
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: he's been getting, but I have to assume it's not

612
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: that much. And if you've been down there for thirty

613
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: three years and this is all you're thinking about, I

614
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: think he's justified. It really is Phantom of the Opera

615
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: vibes in that regards as well. We're just like, I

616
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: need a girlfriend. Finally he does. In a future scene

617
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: he is kind of going like our slash in cell

618
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: a little bit. Oh he's a complete full on predator. Yeah,

619
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: but we'll talk about that later. Um. Okay. So Catwoman

620
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: wants to get rid of Batman, but she as Selena,

621
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: goes on a date with Bruce, neither of them knowing

622
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: about the others alter ego. They're chatting, they're talking about duality.

623
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: They're like basically telling each other who they secretly are. Um.

624
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: Then Selena Lune is that Bruce to kiss him. They're

625
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: making out, but then Bruce has to leave abruptly because

626
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: Penguin is trying to frame Batman for kidnapping the Ice

627
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: Princess during the New Christmas tree lighting ceremony since the

628
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: other one got ruined by clowns by clown by clown gymnasts.

629
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: But don't worry, the next one will also be ruined

630
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: by by the same people. So Bruce puts on his

631
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: bat suit and heads down so hard. It's all a

632
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: horrible place to live, and also like feels like it's

633
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: perpetually a nighttime almost like I know logically that they're

634
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: hard day time shots, but it's just it's always under

635
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: the cover of darkness. I also appreciate that at one

636
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: point the mayor is like, yeah, I know that you

637
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: citizens of Gotham probably think that you know, these streets

638
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: are really funked up and scary, but don't worry. You're

639
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: elected officials and law enforcement have everything under control. And

640
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: it's like, no, you don't. You're attacked by clowns every

641
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 1: other day. How well could these public services be doing there?

642
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: The way that Gotham looks, I think of like all

643
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: the Batman franchises I've seen, I think, I mean, I've

644
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: seen like one from every whatever. But this is my

645
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: favorite Gotham visually because I love the Nolan movies, but

646
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: it does kind of just look like Chicago. I like

647
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: them for that reason, though, Like I do think this

648
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: is still my favorite Gotham. But I'm very sentimental watching

649
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: the Nolan Gotham because I grew up a lot in Illinois,

650
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that's the best nice. I was like,

651
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: maybe if Gotham looked a little more like Boston, I

652
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't be so critical. Every movie has to be made

653
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: for me specifically. I mean, I do feel like you

654
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 1: would feel very differently about it if Gotham looked like Boston.

655
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: I would actually be so thrilled. Have either of you

656
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: seen the menu? Not not yet, but I do want

657
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: to spoiler alert there's a character from my home town. Yeah,

658
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: although I couldn't really suspend my disbelief to believe that

659
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: Anya Taylor I could be from my hometown. There's I

660
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: was like, I don't think that there's beautiful people like

661
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: that in Brockton. But she came from Brockton. Jamie, you're beautiful.

662
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not. I'm a tailor. Joyce swan Neck

663
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: defeating Ralph finds at a restaurant. Beautiful. But you know

664
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: who is? Who is? But her? It's true. She is

665
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: like an alien. She she is a gorgeous alien. I

666
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: really love her. Yeah, she came from a different like

667
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: the sailor moon planet or something. It's I do appreciate

668
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,240
Speaker 1: her even being fictionally connected to Brockton. It's an honor.

669
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: There wasn't. There was a show a while ago that

670
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: was specifically set in the town in Illinois that I

671
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: mostly grew up in, but they didn't shoot any of

672
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: it there and didn't really make an attempt to make

673
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: it look like it. Not that there's that much going

674
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: for my hometown in Illinois, but every I remember, everyone

675
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 1: that I like went to high school with, we were

676
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: like watching the trailer. We were like, what the hell

677
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: is this? Like this is not at all, This doesn't

678
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: look like a done at all. Rude. Brockton gets constantly

679
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: disrespected because of like there have been like some movies

680
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: shot sequences there, but it's only like, oh, we need

681
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: somewhere that looks like it sucks and it's not safe.

682
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: So there were like a lot of key scenes from

683
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: Katherine Bigelow's Dumpster Fire of a movie Detroit was shot

684
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: at the streets of Brockton because they're like, we just

685
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: need a place that looks like it just blew up,

686
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: and so then they shot it in Brockton. Rude. Adam

687
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: McKay shot some of the scenes where like Timothy shallowm

688
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: is hanging out with his dumpster friends and don't look

689
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: up in Brockton. I'm just like, no fucking respect. Unbelievable.

690
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: They're like, okay, dumpster sequence, where can we go? Like

691
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: what the fuck? Okay? So the second tree lighting ceremony

692
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: is being interrupted by clowns, so Bruce puts on his

693
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: batsuit and heads downtown to save the day. But Catwoman

694
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: shows up and she and Penguin successfully frame Batman for

695
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: murdering the ice princess. So now everyone hates Batman, which

696
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: is a pity because she seems nice. She seems very nice. Yeah.

697
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: Also there's a sequence where Penguin hijacks the batmobile and

698
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: he's like crashing it into things, but then Batman regains

699
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: control of his vehicle. He's like doing it from like

700
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: an arcade. It's really fun, it's really really cute. It's awesome.

701
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: Then Penguin is able to gain more power and popularity

702
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: with his mayoral campaign. But while he's giving a speech,

703
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: Bruce Wayne Slash Batman leaks some audio where Penguin is

704
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: talking about how he's playing this stinking city like a

705
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: harp from hell, and so everyone turns on Penguin and

706
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: hates him now. So he returns to the Sewer to

707
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: plot his revenge. This is where he goes from semi

708
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: successful mayoral run too, I'm going to kill everyone's firstborn

709
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: son in about two minutes. I think he could have

710
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: recovered the campaign, could have recovered. I mean it reminded

711
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: me of, like, honestly, some key moments in the Trump campaign. Seriously,

712
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: I was saying the exact same thing. It reminds me

713
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: I was like that, Well, there is his Billy Bush

714
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: tape basically and against all odds, he was famously the president.

715
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: We don't need to talk about. So Penguin's campaign tanked,

716
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: but Trump's won't. What's going on makes you think? Okay,

717
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: so about Penguin, writes in this chat. So while Penguin

718
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 1: is plotting his plan to kill a bunch of babies,

719
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: very plagues of Egypt. Yeah, while that's happening, Bruce and

720
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: Selena go to this masquerade party, although it's called a

721
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: Max Scarade party because it's Max Shrek's party. Um, get it,

722
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: get it. It's a real stretch, it's hard, it's a mouthful.

723
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: When he walks in there playing an instrumental of super

724
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: super Freak, implication that super freak like exists in this universe,

725
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: which I'm glad to know that it does. Yeah, I

726
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: wonder if it only existed as an instrumental. Oh, interesting

727
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: could be Um okay. So they're dancing and Selena is

728
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,959
Speaker 1: telling Bruce about how she's there to kill Shrek. She said,

729
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: no more swamp. No, I'm going to drain this swamp,

730
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: she says, And then they both say something that makes

731
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: Selena realize that Bruce's Batman, and he realizes that she

732
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: is catwoman. Um so they're like, oh my god, what

733
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: do we do now? But just then Penguin launches his attack.

734
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: He shows up. He kidnaps Max Shrek again as a

735
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: second choice he loves. She tries to kidnap Chip, but

736
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: then Shrek is like, no, don't hurt my donkey. Take

737
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: me instead. That's my donkey. I wish the Chip had

738
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: gotten to talk. There could be dead. Let him take

739
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: me I can. But honestly, like his christ ever walk

740
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: in the Freshman is shockingly good. Like it's just subtle enough. Yeah,

741
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: who was that guy? He killed it? I don't know,

742
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: feel like used to be in m M A or

743
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: something was my impression. Andrew brand Narski. He is an

744
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 1: American actor and former bodybuilder, best known for portraying leather

745
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: Face in the remake of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Saying

746
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: in Street Fighter, and Steve Latimer in the Program, and

747
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: obviously Chip in Batman returns his most iconic role. Okay,

748
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: so while that's happening, Penguin's minions are stealing babies all

749
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: over Gotham. But Batman stops this somehow. I didn't even

750
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: catch how he's able to stop that, but that he

751
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 1: puts an end to it. So Penguin sends out all

752
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: of his little penguins, like literal penguin birds with rockets

753
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: strapped to them to blow up Gotham. And I would

754
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: classify this scene as a bit of a march of

755
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: the penguins. Oh yeah, yeah, bit of happy feet marching

756
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: out onto the streets. Yeah, and I think that's all

757
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: the penguin movies. Well, there's also surf Surf's up. Is

758
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: that what it's called? Surfing penguins? I forgot about that.

759
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: Madagascar has penguins in it. They are not the prominently

760
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: it's true, really famous penguins. Yeah, they got their own

761
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: spin off, right, I thought so. My little cousin loved

762
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: the Madagascar movies. Okay, I haven't revisited it a while,

763
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: but I loved it when I was a kid. The

764
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: second one does a polka cover of New York, New York,

765
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: which is one of my favorite versions of it. Like

766
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: not ironically, it's very and that's going to show up

767
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: on your Spotify end of year to this year, it

768
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: probably has already. Um. Okay, so there's a march of

769
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: the penguins, but Batman shows up he jams their signal

770
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: and reroutes their gps IS to send them back to

771
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: Penguin's sewer layer. Penguin escapes, Batman catches up with him,

772
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 1: they fight, Rockets start going off. Meanwhile, Catwoman fights with

773
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 1: Shrek in the Penguin Layer. She's trying to kill him,

774
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 1: but Batman shows up and he's like, no, let's put

775
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: him in jail, and he's trying to appeal to her humanity.

776
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: He's like, we could be together. Batman was pissing me

777
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 1: off in that scene. I was like, leave her alone,

778
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: let her finish him. Seriously, totally agree, and also like

779
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: takes the very ill advised tack of saying her real

780
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: name and then taking off his mask in front of

781
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: Max StrEG in order to try to convince her. And

782
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: I'm like, if anything, that makes the case for killing

783
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: him even stronger, Like he can't be out there. No.

784
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: It is really funny though, When Shrek is like, why

785
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: is Bruce Wayne dressed up as Batman? Catwoman's like, because

786
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: he is, you, moron. It's good anyway. So Catwoman kills

787
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: Shrek via electrocution and then presumably scurries off with one

788
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 1: life left of her nine lives. Penguin shows up, he's dying.

789
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: He dies so that his little penguins drag him into

790
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: the water and Karen's crying. I I do cry every

791
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: time he dies in this movie, Like this is not

792
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: a joke, Like I cried and death scene every time

793
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: it is sad. They give him like a real proper

794
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: tragic hero or not tragic villain and send off. When

795
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: he pulls the umbrella out and it's and he's like,

796
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: pict a cute one again and then just falls her.

797
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, he's an eight. He got he

798
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: should they should just give him. He's such a good actor.

799
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: And I feel like we all forget that because he's

800
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: so good at being like funny and weird and like

801
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: it's always sunny and stuff and posting his feet to Twitter.

802
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: But he's such a good actors. His performance is incredible.

803
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: He's amazing. Yeah, um okay. So then the movie ends

804
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: with Bruce. He's driving around with Alfred. He thinks he

805
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: sees catwoman in an alley. He gets out, he finds

806
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: her cat, which looks exactly like Fleet by the way.

807
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 1: He takes it home so that, like we said, Alfred

808
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: can take care of it and then Bruce Wayne says

809
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: Merry Christmas, Alfred goodwill toward men and women, and then

810
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 1: they go, oh like feminist icon. He nibbles a little

811
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: bit there. Wow, it is a really funny final line.

812
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: It's you see Catwoman and then you know, like, because

813
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: we live in the future, that she never comes back,

814
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,439
Speaker 1: and it's sending you up for a movie that never happens. Okay,

815
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: let's take another quick break and we will come back

816
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: to discuss, and we're back. Karen, Where would you like

817
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: to begin? Uh, that's such a good question. There's so

818
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: much to talk about. I mean, I guess we'll start

819
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: with the penguin because he's fresh on my mind, where

820
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: I just love him so much, I would I would

821
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 1: give a little kiss. I don't mind that he's perfect.

822
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: The main conversation to be had about him as it

823
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: pertains to our show and the analysis we do here

824
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: is um the physical mothering and able ism that is

825
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 1: present in his character, even though no specific disability is

826
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: referenced when it comes to his character. And I'm pretty

827
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: sure that having penguin like features, to my knowledge, is

828
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: not a real thing, right. But the syndactyl ly or

829
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: what is it with his hands, I think is the

830
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: real thing. But obviously, again they don't put like a

831
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: name to any of what's going on, right right, Even so,

832
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 1: a villain in a movie having a typical physical features

833
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: and looking different from everybody else is just inherently ablest.

834
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 1: And in this case, I would say also fat phobic,

835
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: because Danny de Vito is wearing a fat suit as

836
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: the Penguin character. So there's just all of this again

837
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: physical mothering of his character. But this movie does something

838
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: interesting that I feel like a lot of movies don't

839
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 1: do when it comes to physically other movie villains, where

840
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: the movie will other the villain in some way, usually

841
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: with like very ablest under an overtones, but it's usually

842
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: not something that impacts this story or the character. It's

843
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: just like a trait that exists in a void for

844
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: that character. But Penguin's whole thing is that he was

845
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: discarded by his parents because he was physically different, which

846
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: led to a lifetime of isolation and resentment and longing,

847
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 1: which turned him into the villain that he is. So

848
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 1: you have this character who's like affected by everyone in

849
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: the community being ablest towards him, and yes, it does

850
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: turn him into a villain. I don't know. I don't

851
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 1: know what to make of it exactly, but it's it's tough,

852
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: I think, like, especially for the time period, Like it

853
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: feels pretty forward in that respect, where again, like the

854
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 1: fact that he looks the way he does is not

855
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: supposed to indicate that he's a villain, like I think,

856
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: especially because of the way that Tim Burton uses iconography,

857
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 1: like everyone looks a little bit weird it and especially

858
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: as you were sort of saying in the penguin's case,

859
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: like he is like this specifically because everyone else discriminates

860
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 1: against him because of the way he looks. So it's

861
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: not there as a storytelling shortcut or anything like that.

862
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 1: It's not there in the sense of, like I think

863
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: it's discussed the most with like Bond villains, where there's

864
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: always some kind of physical deformity that has no bearing

865
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: on their personality but just means look at them, they're evil,

866
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,800
Speaker 1: which is not the case here. And I also feel

867
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: like the depths again, the fact that data Vito is

868
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: such a good and empathetic actor like goes a really

869
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 1: long way towards selling that point, because like then they

870
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: have the direct like rips from the elephant man, where

871
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: at first, like when he's being reintegrated into society, he's like,

872
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: I'm not a penguin, like I'm a man, I have

873
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: a name, And then when they reject him because of

874
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 1: the tape, and also I think because of inherent bias,

875
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 1: he's like, I am not a man, I'm a monster.

876
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: And it's like, again, it's because of the outside influences

877
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: that he is doing these bad things more so than

878
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: that being like an inherent part of his personality. Right,

879
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: I yeah, I like was it is like a tricky

880
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a tricky topic to take on

881
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: in any regard, and it's like so present in comic

882
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: books in general that I appreciate it, like even though

883
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: it's like certainly not like a perfect attempt to address it,

884
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: but like I thought it was like like you're saying, Caitlin,

885
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: and like it was trying to give context to like

886
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: he is not a villain because of how he looks.

887
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: He is a villain because of how society treats him

888
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 1: because of how it looks. And you know, it was

889
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: interesting and I don't know what actually we'll come back

890
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: to it. I lost it. Um Oh. I also I

891
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: saw some reads. It's tricky because it's like I certainly

892
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 1: see and like can acknowledge a lot of the able

893
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: is m that's built into the character. And then there's

894
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: also moments where it's like they're just trying to make

895
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: him look more like a penguin, and so it's like

896
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:05,479
Speaker 1: two things kind of are happening at once. I saw

897
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: that at the time of this movie's release, and rightfully so.

898
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: I mean, and we've talked about anti Semitic tropes and

899
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: villains a number of times, and I think that, um,

900
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: some of those are certainly present in The Penguin as well.

901
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: The point that didn't register with me was like, here

902
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: is a villain who's being given anti Semitic styling, who

903
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 1: is determined to steal babies around Christmas, and you're like,

904
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: oh uh, yep, that is certainly what's happening. Um, so yeah,

905
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: I think that It's like I totally agree with Karen.

906
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: I think like Danny Devitto's performance is like so much

907
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 1: of like what humanizes this character. I like that he

908
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: gets so much context into why he is the way

909
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: he is. Danny DeVito is so perfect it's hard. He's perfect,

910
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: and Danny DeVito I think again, not to keep just

911
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: talking about his performance, but the fact that he never

912
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: plays also like a joke goes a long, long, long,

913
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 1: long long way towards this kind of coming off better,

914
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 1: I guess, because I think you could very easily play

915
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: it as like, Oh, he's so funny and weird look

916
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: at him, But I don't think he ever plays it

917
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: that way in the movie. Yeah, yeah, for sure. The

918
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: thing that puts me off about him the most as

919
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: far as his like villainous qualities, is his like predatory,

920
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 1: like sexual predatory behavior, where like he says stuff like, oh,

921
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: I'd like to fill her void, and he just like

922
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: is actively groping people and sexually harassing them. I viewed that,

923
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: though I didn't view that as like tying into anything

924
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: that had to do with his physical appearance. I viewed

925
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 1: that as like him getting corrupted by power the second

926
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: he gets a little bit of power, because that's like,

927
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: because like the coolest part about his character is like

928
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 1: he at the beginning, it's like you can totally see

929
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: like he wants to funk over Gotham because he's been

930
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 1: so thoroughly rejected and isolated from the society he should

931
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: have been growing up in but then the second he

932
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: gets a little taste of power, he immediately is like

933
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: horrible to everybody in all the expected ways, which I

934
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: think is like an awesome whatever. It's a it's a

935
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: it's a it's a good arc we know, we know

936
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: this arc um. Oh, that was what I was thinking.

937
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: It was earlier, was I feel like I mean, And

938
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 1: there's plenty of criticisms of Tim Burton. I wasn't even

939
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: going to get into them today really because we've talked

940
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: about them in previous episodes. But I do think that

941
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: like something that he dealt with well in a lot

942
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: of examples, especially in this era of his is like

943
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: taking another character and building them out to be someone

944
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 1: that you can empathize with, even if ultimately they're like

945
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: doing the wrong thing. And so for like it's like, yeah,

946
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: I guess like the penguin in Tim Burton and Mark

947
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: Water's hand because this was written by the guy who

948
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: wrote Heathers um like You've got two That is Daniel Waters.

949
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, Daniel Waters. Mark Waters is his brother who

950
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: directed Mean Girls. Yeah, the whole Waters dynasty situation apparently,

951
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 1: but yeah, Daniel Waters wrote Heather's Tim Burton liked Heathers,

952
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: and he liked that Daniel Waters had no knowledge about

953
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: Batman Um and didn't care about Batman Cannon and like

954
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: it just like we're two people who were known for

955
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 1: dealing with humanizing misfits well and so for I think

956
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: that they did a pretty good job. But I also,

957
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, totally understand all of the criticisms around the

958
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: penguin as well. Yeah, I think, I mean, I don't know,

959
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: it is very of its time in a way, like

960
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: even thinking about the uh, like phone sales calls that

961
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: Selena Gas where they're like, oh, if you wear this

962
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: at the office, your boss is going to invite you

963
00:57:55,080 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 1: to day late, like it's so gross, and Max's houltree

964
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: ement of her, and then even to an extent like

965
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: Bruce where he's just like he sees her and he's like, Oh,

966
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: that woman's hot. I want to talk to her more, right,

967
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: I think it's rare and maybe it doesn't even happen

968
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 1: for a man to come into contact with Selena and

969
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: not immediately say something, even though like I think the

970
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,439
Speaker 1: most egregious thing is like the two security guards are like, yeah,

971
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: I don't know if I should arrest her or as

972
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 1: with her right, and you're just like, oh my god,

973
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: like okay, you can blow up those guys. And then

974
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: she's like, you're paid too much. Also watching her is

975
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: very cathartic. Oh yeah, absolutely. Also, Penguin turns on Catwoman

976
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: the second she's like, yeah, I don't want to have

977
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: sex with you or marry you, and he says, and

978
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: I quote you, lousy minx. I ought to have you spade.

979
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: You sent out all the signals, and I don't think

980
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: I like you anymore, and then he tries to kill her,

981
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: has her air lifted out of the scene. I mean,

982
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 1: it's an incredible, incredible way to get someone out of

983
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: your life. But also like he has no little to

984
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: no social interaction with people. Don't know, I'm not trying

985
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: to write off the behavior like you should not behave

986
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: that way towards anybody, but anyway, but that no, I

987
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: think that that's like part of why this character is

988
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: like kind of endured in spite of like all this

989
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: stuff is like I don't know, I feel like I

990
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 1: complain about modern movie villains a lot, and like the

991
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: movie doesn't go out of its way to like redeem

992
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: the Penguin, like he's still a villain, but you also

993
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,479
Speaker 1: know enough about him that you do feel a little

994
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: bit bad or or in Karen's case, are full and

995
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: creeping um when he does die, because it's like, well, no,

996
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: like he you know, grew up extremely disadvantaged. He was

997
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: raised by penguins. He's not interacted with people. Um, you know,

998
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: he's dying a very horny virgin. Like there's a lot

999
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 1: of things that he lost the mayor mayoral campaign. His

1000
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: dad was pee wee herman. He has a lot of baggage. Wait,

1001
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 1: his dad is played by Paul Rubens. Yeah, I didn't know,

1002
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: and Karen wasn't lying. Doug Jones is in this movie.

1003
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 1: He plays a clown. Oh my gosh, he's the he's

1004
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: the quote unquote thin clown. Oh why I mean described

1005
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 1: Doug Jones in a better way. It's true, Like it's

1006
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: right there, Oh my goodness. But like but but but

1007
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: by the time Penguin dies, I just like I feel

1008
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 1: like it's kind of a weird lost art in big

1009
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: movies to have uh, you know, poetic villain that. Yeah,

1010
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: it's like they're they're so clearly a path you can

1011
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: see where he his life would have been fine or

1012
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: like he would have been redeemed him some way, and

1013
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: that's what makes that storyline powerful, that he is not

1014
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: on it or did not manage to get on it

1015
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: right and then like the first person to like accept

1016
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: him into society. It happened to be like kind of

1017
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 1: the most evil guy um where like nobody around him

1018
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: has his best interests at his heart. Yeah, he was

1019
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: only doing it because he was being blackmailed. And he

1020
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: also was like, oh, I can use him as a

1021
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: political pond so I can build my power plant, right

1022
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: like if if I don't know, I mean it's like Penguin.

1023
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 1: By the end, you're like, yeah, he's the villain. You know,

1024
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: he's not going to make it out of the movie.

1025
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 1: But but also we're frowning and it's sad, and he's

1026
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: supposed to be thirty three years old. Yes, the last

1027
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: thing I want to say about I feel like I

1028
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: love I think almost across the board really like the

1029
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: like political like corrupt politics commentary in this movie and

1030
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: like those areas of the Penguin. I kind of am

1031
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: like kind of above criticism for me, where it's like

1032
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: commenting on how like people are so influenced by media

1033
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: narratives that make them feel like good people, where it's

1034
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: like these are the same people that have rejected and

1035
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 1: been afraid of Penguin his whole life, but then there's

1036
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: this false media narrative constructed by the penguin to be

1037
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: like I'm good now you should feel so bad to

1038
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,040
Speaker 1: have been so horrible to me in the past. And

1039
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, we love the penguin, now we're going

1040
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 1: to vote for him. And then like he's like, oh, whatever,

1041
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 1: fuck you. Um, that's absolutely true. Yeah, I was not.

1042
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: I keep interrupting you, but I was thinking about that too,

1043
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: Like in the scene where he goes to his parents

1044
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: grave site and it's like a whole like media circus

1045
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: out there, Like there are a lot of journalists, there's

1046
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 1: a huge crowd that all are just wanting to gawk

1047
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 1: at this yeah, and it's like he's, uh, so there's

1048
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: so much about this movie that you're like, oh, it's

1049
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 1: like rejecting all these things where it's like he's crafting

1050
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: his own redemption arc while being completely unchanged, and like

1051
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: people buy it because and people always buy ship like that.

1052
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: They want to Yeah, are we to understand that Penguin

1053
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:46,439
Speaker 1: killed his own parents, like he knew who they were

1054
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: and at some point went and killed them and that's

1055
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 1: why they're dead or did I just kind of fill

1056
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: in some blanks. I think they just died. Yeah, I

1057
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 1: didn't think that he had he had killed them, Okay,

1058
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: but well that's my headcanon that he did already know

1059
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 1: who they were and he went and killed them, killed

1060
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: Pee Wee. I mean that's going to dock him a

1061
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: few points in my book. You really can't be killing

1062
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: pee Wee Herman. But also like the fact that they

1063
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: brought Pee Wee Herman back for the Gotham TV show

1064
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: specifically because they're like, we gotta get him in. It's

1065
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: a great cameo. Anyway, He's Cannon, he is, He's that

1066
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: Makann and know he is. It makes me Also Jan

1067
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: Hooks is in this movie. I love Jan Hooks Okay,

1068
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: so oh yeah. But then and then like just like that,

1069
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: they're like running him on this like law and order campaign,

1070
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: like just all this stuff where it's like, yeah, I

1071
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: love that. The people of Gotham are also always kind

1072
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 1: of like not like complicit in the downfall of their city,

1073
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: but like they kind of fall for everything, and you're

1074
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 1: like well, guys, I mean you really should have been

1075
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 1: reading between the lines on that whole Penguin redemption narrative.

1076
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 1: But you know, I guess you're gonna get attacked by

1077
01:03:56,360 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: a clown again just desserts, but like the like, oh

1078
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: or city is so full of crime narrative also like

1079
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: something that we see a lot in our contemporary society

1080
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: and it's not always true. But yeah, can we talk

1081
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: about before we get to because Catwoman, I know it's

1082
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: like going to consume so much of the discussion and

1083
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 1: rightfully so. But uh, I was reading about like the

1084
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 1: creative production of this movie and a lot of the

1085
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 1: back and forth that happened between Tim Burton and Daniel Waters,

1086
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: and something that I liked because because Max Shrek. I

1087
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't have known this because I don't know about comic books,

1088
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: but is an original character added to this movie was

1089
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 1: not part of Batman. Cannon added him in specifically named

1090
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: after the actor Max Shrek, who played I liked that.

1091
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 1: You know, they wanted to have like you're kind of

1092
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 1: like political villain to to counter to the Penguin, which

1093
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: is like more kind of a classic comic book e

1094
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 1: villain um. And they said that they wanted to do

1095
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 1: that specifically so that they like decate there, like, oh,

1096
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 1: the greatest evil is often just like an elected public

1097
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: official or like a business person, and it's true, and

1098
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 1: it's true. I just like it ages very well in

1099
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 1: that regard. I really, I really liked it. And I

1100
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 1: mean I don't like the character of Max Shrek is

1101
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: so despicable, but like it just like it fits in Gotham.

1102
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: I would prefer that to like another cartoony kind of villain.

1103
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 1: And Christopher Walkin plays the hell out of him. Oh yeah,

1104
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: Oh he looks so goofy. He looks great. Yeah, like

1105
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: it's amazing. He's hot. He's oh my god, Christopher Walkin

1106
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 1: is hot. And then every time everyone in this movie

1107
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 1: is hot, and then we're always like, what happens on

1108
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: the boat and Christopher walking what happened? Yeah, I cannot

1109
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 1: forget that that he probably does know how Natalie would died.

1110
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: I can never forget that. TikTok, you know, you gotta

1111
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 1: let us know you're getting up there. And he hasn't

1112
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: dropped that on the Dune to press tour. He's like

1113
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: he's getting to There's been too many true crime podcasts

1114
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: about Natalie would. I just want to say this now,

1115
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: this is the best Christopher Rock and I can do.

1116
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: And there I was. I love it. It's perfect, It's perfect.

1117
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 1: All right. Shall we talk about Catwoman? Okay? That costume,

1118
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's hot. Jeem So my note, my

1119
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 1: notes are all over the place with her. But I

1120
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: guess just like, okay, generally speaking, or to kick us off,

1121
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:40,000
Speaker 1: first of all, well, I love Catwoman. Incredible character, amazing.

1122
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: Michelle Peiffer as Catwoman is iconic, just like she's the

1123
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: best one, so good. What I like about the Selena

1124
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: Slashcatwoman character is I mean, she's contextualized much like Penguin

1125
01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: is where you get the sense that Selena is constantly

1126
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:07,439
Speaker 1: being undermined by men in her life and her mom um.

1127
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: She's constantly being disappointed by men in her life. She

1128
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 1: is inundated with pressure to please men and kind of

1129
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: adhere to rigid gender roles, you know, all of this

1130
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: ship that she's dealing with. That like she's literally like

1131
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: putting a pink collar job. The whole thing where she

1132
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 1: keeps saying like I'm an assistant, it's like a secretary,

1133
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 1: Like that whole distinction is so good and every yeah,

1134
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: everyone keeps calling her secretary right, And then like at work,

1135
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: when she tries to offer some input in a meeting,

1136
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,920
Speaker 1: she's shot down. Shrek doesn't want to hear what she

1137
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 1: has to say. He says something like, you know, we

1138
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: haven't properly how to feel that way about Fiona too,

1139
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: and she I mean, exactly, okay, sorry, I thought love

1140
01:07:55,640 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: was only true in fairy tales, but tributity lies within.

1141
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: So everything about the point is Shrek undermines Selena. And

1142
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 1: then she goes home. You see a bit of her

1143
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: interior life. She has all of these messages on her

1144
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: answering machine from people again either like disappointing her, undermining her,

1145
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 1: like laying on this pressure was kind of like societal

1146
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 1: patriarchal pressure. And then when she goes back to the

1147
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: office and is murdered by her boss, that's obviously like

1148
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:37,839
Speaker 1: the catalyst that turns her into catwoman. You know, Skimble

1149
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 1: Shanks is like Miamio and she's like a catwoman, and

1150
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:43,720
Speaker 1: he's like back from work, back from the clown train,

1151
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: I work on um. And then she criticizes skimble Shanks

1152
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: for not paying rent, which if true, is wild because

1153
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 1: he we are to understand that he has a job.

1154
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 1: That's right. He's one of the few cats that makes money,

1155
01:08:55,800 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: so he should be paying rent. He's rich. Um, he

1156
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,640
Speaker 1: works on a train. What is it going to use

1157
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 1: all that cat money for? He's a cat and he

1158
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: takes it so seriously. That's the whole song is about

1159
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: how seriously he takes his job and exactly how he

1160
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: does it. He's like, I'm on time every day and

1161
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: the train just kind of can't run without me. I

1162
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: saw it at the Pantages a couple of weeks ago,

1163
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:28,719
Speaker 1: and he didn't tap in the stage adaptation. Heck, I

1164
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 1: know Mr must Files tapped, and well Mr m is

1165
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: a classic tapper, but he's like not a tapper in

1166
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 1: the movie, but he is a tamper on stage. I

1167
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 1: knew that, but I didn't know that there was no

1168
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 1: Skimble Shanks tapping. I mean, it was a lovely dance,

1169
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 1: but I did walk away disappointed. It's a lot more

1170
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:52,759
Speaker 1: of like this. It's yes now is Skimble Shanks taking

1171
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:55,600
Speaker 1: up space? Of course, during the number he's taking up

1172
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 1: He's taking up space the way that Sebastian Maniscalco does

1173
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: during his specials. He's back and forth back and forth,

1174
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 1: like but but it just wasn't quite the tap number

1175
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:11,679
Speaker 1: I was expecting. Yeah, I'm sorry, Catwoman. Yes, okay, another

1176
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 1: little context defect. And again I don't want to get

1177
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:17,559
Speaker 1: in the habit of hand to get to dim Burton

1178
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 1: too hard. He has a lot of baggage. But I

1179
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 1: guess when they were developing the scriptum According to scholarly

1180
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:30,360
Speaker 1: journal Wikipedia, Burton's only instruction to Daniel Watters writing the

1181
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:32,600
Speaker 1: script was that Catwoman had to be more than a

1182
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,679
Speaker 1: sexy vixen and like so he it was a definite

1183
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 1: point of like we need to understand how she gets

1184
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 1: from zero to Catwoman. It's not just sexy lady and

1185
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 1: suit do crime and be a girlfriend. Which is why

1186
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 1: I think she really works in this movie, like she

1187
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: has more to do. Like I think that's kind of

1188
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,839
Speaker 1: the fatal flaw of like the other like film Catwoman

1189
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: that we've seen where they don't have as much to

1190
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:56,720
Speaker 1: do or there's kind of too much assumed that we

1191
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 1: would know about her already, that she falls kind of flat.

1192
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 1: That this line is like she rules, I understand her,

1193
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 1: talked about him like she's great and she has like

1194
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 1: a real struggle like I'm trying to I I are. Honestly,

1195
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 1: most of the Robert Pattins in Batman movie, I know,

1196
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: I liked it, but most of it's already left my brain.

1197
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 1: But Colin Farrell a little the strongest impression in that movie. Yeah,

1198
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:22,559
Speaker 1: I liked him, and I love Zoe Kravitz, but it's

1199
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 1: like her Catwoman was so cool that it wasn't like, oh,

1200
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: I wonder if she's going to get out of this.

1201
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: It's like, well, she's so cool, she's probably gonna get

1202
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: out of it. Michelle Peiffer's Catwoman. I genuinely was like,

1203
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going to happen now. She's very chaotic. Yeah,

1204
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 1: the stakes are so high for her, and you know

1205
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: that right away, and you also like, I guess I'm

1206
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 1: curious what you both thought about this, because I I,

1207
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 1: you know, I think that we're to believe that like

1208
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:51,679
Speaker 1: Selena is like unraveling as the story goes on, She's

1209
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: like losing her you know, grip on reality. But I

1210
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 1: thought that for the most part, that was like well

1211
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: contextualized enough that it didn't super bother me. Like when

1212
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 1: she goes nuclear on her house, I was like, yeah, totally.

1213
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: There comes a day you just died and came back

1214
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 1: like of course, yeah, I'm not going to call that

1215
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 1: overly emotional behavior. I think it makes sense, right, because

1216
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 1: she's reacting to all of this stuff that she had

1217
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 1: been dealing with prior to that, the most drastic being

1218
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 1: that she was murdered by her boss. But like she

1219
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,600
Speaker 1: to me, I see her transformation as like an extremely

1220
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: liberating and empowering moment for her because she comes in,

1221
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 1: she destroys all of the pink stuff, the her dollhouse,

1222
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 1: her stuffed animals, She's spray painting things black to make

1223
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 1: like her house goth. She pulls out like the one

1224
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 1: black leather coat she has and she's like, this is

1225
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:53,919
Speaker 1: my outfit now. So she's like rejecting femininity, like traditional

1226
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 1: femininity in this way. But I don't think the movie

1227
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:00,679
Speaker 1: is saying like feminine things bad, Like yeah, I don't

1228
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 1: think so either. It's more just like she's I think,

1229
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:09,679
Speaker 1: fed up with the expectation to adhere to very rigid,

1230
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 1: hyper feminine gender roles and she's like, funck this, Like

1231
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to break out of this prison basically of

1232
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 1: gender role constraints and unleash havoc on the world. What

1233
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 1: I don't quite get about her character is while I

1234
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 1: think she has a really cool internal conflict like you

1235
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,040
Speaker 1: mentioned Jamie, as far as like she's struggling with this

1236
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:36,679
Speaker 1: dual identity, she doesn't really know who she has become.

1237
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:41,720
Speaker 1: This transformation is like really messing with her mentally and emotionally.

1238
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 1: Her external conflict doesn't really make any sense to me.

1239
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 1: She wants to take down Batman for why. I assume

1240
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 1: she wanted to take down Max s Trek and knew

1241
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 1: that and felt that Batman would be an obstacle for

1242
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 1: that because like obviously what she was trying to do

1243
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,600
Speaker 1: is assassinate of his This man basically is not going

1244
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 1: to allow that to happen on his watch no matter what.

1245
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 1: That makes more sense, That's how because I was like

1246
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: a little unclear in that at first, but then I

1247
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 1: was like, oh, Selena is one thing I actually really

1248
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 1: like about her is she goes full girl boss babe,

1249
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 1: but she like she is like very strategic in the

1250
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 1: way she does stuff where it's like if she has

1251
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 1: to manipulate, like emotionally manipulate Batman in one scene to

1252
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 1: like neutralize him temporarily and then go over to the penguin,

1253
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 1: you know, like get what she needs from him, and

1254
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 1: it's like all very strategic and like Batman is such

1255
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:38,480
Speaker 1: a like I was gonna say loser. He's not a loser,

1256
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:41,840
Speaker 1: but like he's so like lawful good that you know,

1257
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 1: and his whole thing is he doesn't kill people and

1258
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 1: she straight up does some I know, which I think

1259
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:52,560
Speaker 1: Batman heads don't Like, I don't care it works in

1260
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: the movie. I'm not that mad about it. I like

1261
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 1: that Daniel Waters, like he has so many quotes about

1262
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 1: being like saying like, I don't care about pleasing fans.

1263
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 1: Comic book fans mean nothing to me, Like they shouldn't

1264
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 1: let me kill Selena. But it makes more sense if

1265
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,839
Speaker 1: Batman kills people, and you're just like, man damn Daniel

1266
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 1: to borrow a phrase, Um, he just he just doesn't

1267
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 1: give a rat's ass when it comes to great which

1268
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 1: I do. I think that mores honestly more uh screenwriters

1269
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,519
Speaker 1: for like big franchises, they should hire more people who

1270
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 1: don't give a ship because that's the only way you

1271
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,600
Speaker 1: get new stuff. Tony Gilroy, this is why Andor is

1272
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: good because he hates Star Wars. Really, I hate Star Wars. Yeah,

1273
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 1: and is so good. It's like I'm talking, I'm gonna

1274
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 1: watch it still. There's an entire arc about the prison complex.

1275
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,719
Speaker 1: Like it's wild interesting, it's really really good. Yeah, maybe

1276
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 1: less fans should be hired. And this is how I'm

1277
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:49,760
Speaker 1: going to get to write a big franchise movie. I'm like,

1278
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:53,839
Speaker 1: I don't know, you should hire me. I don't know anything. Um,

1279
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 1: but like Batman is so like there you know, all

1280
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:01,280
Speaker 1: the obvious observations about Batman been made also on this show,

1281
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 1: uh where it's like he's a billionaire and her, but like,

1282
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 1: but I think for this that doesn't even really come

1283
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:10,240
Speaker 1: into it that much. Those are the kind of obvious

1284
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 1: criticisms of him. But like that scene at the end

1285
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 1: where they're like he's coming in lawful good and he's

1286
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 1: like we just need to like bring him to the

1287
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 1: police and it'll be fine. And Selena is like, what

1288
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 1: the funk are you talking about? Like this guy lives

1289
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 1: above the law and so do we, and he's like, no,

1290
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: cops are amazing. I love God and p D and like, Commissioner,

1291
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 1: my only friend, my only friend is a cops are

1292
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 1: I was like, God, so pathetic, But like whatever, But

1293
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: I just I just loved how like I don't know,

1294
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 1: like in a way that totally fits like cartoonishly explicit

1295
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 1: that conversation is and that he doesn't win her over

1296
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 1: like that was I was sort of like nervous that

1297
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 1: whole scene of like, oh God, is he going to

1298
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:01,280
Speaker 1: win her over? Is she gonna be like you're right,

1299
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 1: let's just bring him downtown and like get him locked

1300
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 1: up or another fear. This was like a Spider Man

1301
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 1: two based fear, whereas like is Batman going to get

1302
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 1: the killing blow on Max Shrek or something? Because I

1303
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:16,240
Speaker 1: always forget Batman's not supposed to kill people, So I

1304
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:17,760
Speaker 1: was like, oh, is he going to get to do it?

1305
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 1: That would suck because it's so clearly Selena's kids to

1306
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 1: do it. But none of that happens. Batman is literally

1307
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: like knocked out for for Selena to get her killing

1308
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 1: blow in. Honestly, his part in the final scenes is

1309
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 1: so funny because he gets knocked out and then you

1310
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 1: see him sort of like in the distance sort of

1311
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 1: standing up and like here around and see what's going

1312
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:40,840
Speaker 1: on as these six penguins, uh score the body of

1313
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 1: the penguin into the water, like, can you imagine being

1314
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 1: Bruce Wayne in that moment, being like, huh, like what's

1315
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: going on? Oh, the penguins are like having a funeral service,

1316
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 1: and then Batmans goes like, oh, I gotta go. And

1317
01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 1: then Batman goes over to like the rubble and like

1318
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 1: clear some of it away, and he's ease Max Shrek

1319
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:03,600
Speaker 1: just as like a yeah, like a burnt to a

1320
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:09,439
Speaker 1: crisp dead dude. Catwoman's nowhere. It's really good. It's awesome.

1321
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,000
Speaker 1: But I liked I totally agree with what you guys

1322
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:15,560
Speaker 1: are saying about Catwoman and her I guess spectrum of femininity,

1323
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:17,200
Speaker 1: because I think that's one of the fun things about

1324
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:20,600
Speaker 1: this movie, and I think something that will be relatable

1325
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 1: to anyone who has ever sort of questioned how to

1326
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 1: present gender in any way. Where the scene where she

1327
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: saves that woman from being raped on the street, she's like, oh,

1328
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:32,360
Speaker 1: you make it so easy, always waiting for someone to

1329
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: come save you. I think that's like a sort of

1330
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 1: thing that we all wrestle with, where it's like, even

1331
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 1: if you want to present in a very traditionally feminine matter,

1332
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:42,800
Speaker 1: or that's what you like more and what you want

1333
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 1: to do, Like the stereotypes that have been laiden onto.

1334
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:51,679
Speaker 1: These particular aesthetics are so loaded and what people tell

1335
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 1: you about like when, for instance, like someone is sexually assaulted,

1336
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:58,200
Speaker 1: like so much of the language is about like, oh, well,

1337
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 1: what were you doing in that situation? So yeah, where

1338
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's interesting to watch her struggle

1339
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:07,880
Speaker 1: with that. Like they obviously don't go all the way

1340
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 1: into like just talking about gender politics in this movie,

1341
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 1: but it's a very interesting thing to touch on in general,

1342
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 1: because like the iconography of Catwoman in this movie, where

1343
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:23,799
Speaker 1: she turns into this like all leather like girls dominatrix style,

1344
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 1: like has such an impact on how we now perceive

1345
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 1: like quote unquote strong female characters because they're like, oh,

1346
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:32,360
Speaker 1: like they have to be sexy but also shoot a gun.

1347
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, like that's not what constitutes like

1348
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 1: strength for any character, or like you don't have to

1349
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 1: present in one way or anything or the other to

1350
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 1: be considered strong. But anyway, right, because her sexualization is

1351
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 1: something I was grappling with because she when she transforms

1352
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 1: into Catwoman, she becomes like I would say, one of

1353
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 1: the hottest movie characters of all times, absolutely a sexual

1354
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 1: awakening for were I think most people who feel sexual feelings.

1355
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 1: One of the IMDb trivia things for this is that

1356
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 1: people kept stealing like the one sheet of her like

1357
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 1: because and like to the point that they had to

1358
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:15,919
Speaker 1: like start putting like cops out to watch like busses

1359
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 1: and like signage post and ship to make sure they

1360
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:22,439
Speaker 1: would stop stealing them our tax dollars at work, people

1361
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:28,800
Speaker 1: guarding sexual images of Michelle Peifer like. A friend of

1362
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:32,759
Speaker 1: the show, Sammy Junio had this to say, Michelle Peifer

1363
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 1: as Catwoman is a gay awakening for a lot of

1364
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 1: queer folks. And gay awakening is also what I announced

1365
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 1: into my empty apartment when I get out of bed

1366
01:20:42,439 --> 01:20:49,680
Speaker 1: for the day. So Sammy making a Google but I did,

1367
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 1: I mean my my feeling on it was like I

1368
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 1: understand why, Like it almost feels like the sort of

1369
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 1: thing where for me it really works in the context

1370
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 1: of this movie, and I understand how like people could

1371
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 1: take the most base interpretation of it and lift it

1372
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 1: for other movies in a way that is like net negative.

1373
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:12,160
Speaker 1: But I don't think that that's Michelle Feiffer Catwoman's fault.

1374
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:14,439
Speaker 1: I feel like, no, no, it's a very like Mr

1375
01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:18,000
Speaker 1: Hollywood takeaway to be like, Okay, so you know she

1376
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 1: people really liked this character and it's probably because she

1377
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 1: was wearing a skin tight suit and had a gun

1378
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:25,679
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, that was a part of it,

1379
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 1: but also I like, but also the other stuff. It's

1380
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 1: not nothing. It was definitely a good chunk. But also

1381
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:35,080
Speaker 1: it's like the character was well written. She was really

1382
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 1: strongly motivated and like, yeah, I sort of viewed like

1383
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 1: her being sexualized. I don't think it's ever like endorsed

1384
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 1: by the movie explicitly, like especially when it's um Shrek

1385
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 1: or the Penguin and and I don't know, I felt

1386
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:54,760
Speaker 1: like her sexualization at least with like the outfit and

1387
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 1: her behavior was more like she's like all of a

1388
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 1: sudden confident, like sexual confident and like into herself in

1389
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 1: a more about her Yeah, And I liked that, like

1390
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 1: the visual representation of that. And obviously it's a very

1391
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 1: like you know, Western beauty standards visual interpretation of that,

1392
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 1: but I thought it worked that it's like, oh, this

1393
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 1: is like a woman who has felt so pushed down

1394
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:23,400
Speaker 1: by all these different forces and now she's finally like,

1395
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: oh I'm fucking hot and cool. And I can like

1396
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:29,880
Speaker 1: do whatever I want and that's cool, that's fun is

1397
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:32,400
Speaker 1: and that's like, that's what I was grappling with. Where Like,

1398
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 1: on one hand, you could easily argue that her sexualization

1399
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:39,559
Speaker 1: is very much on her own terms. This is how

1400
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:43,639
Speaker 1: she chooses to present this is a manifestation of her

1401
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:47,719
Speaker 1: newfound confidence. But on the other hand, you could argue

1402
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 1: that it was the male screenwriters and directors who chose

1403
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:56,680
Speaker 1: to present a female character in this way. But but

1404
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:01,400
Speaker 1: because like her being sexualized in this story isn't predatory

1405
01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:03,720
Speaker 1: in terms of like the way the camera views her.

1406
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 1: It's not like male gazzy linger e cinematography. It's more

1407
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 1: just like and this is how the character is now

1408
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 1: presenting it pretty objectively in my opinion, So yeah, I

1409
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 1: was like pretty fine with it. Yeah, I totally agree

1410
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 1: with that as also objectively into it because it's like

1411
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 1: Michelle Phiffer and also her performance there is a really

1412
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:29,720
Speaker 1: good It was from like I think five or so

1413
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:33,640
Speaker 1: years ago for the anniversary of this movie. It was

1414
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:37,800
Speaker 1: a really nice piece by uh right. We've cited many

1415
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 1: times on this show. Angelica, Jade Bastian and Vulture wrote

1416
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 1: this nice ode to Michelle Pheiffer as Catwoman, and just

1417
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:48,439
Speaker 1: like how her like will link it in the description

1418
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 1: of this episode, she she directs you to several ways

1419
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:55,599
Speaker 1: that Michelle Peiffer was talked about in the press where

1420
01:23:55,640 --> 01:23:58,120
Speaker 1: I think that also, and this gets me into like

1421
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 1: Lolita podcast brain kind of like how I think a

1422
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:05,280
Speaker 1: lot of like the takeaway of how Catwoman was presented

1423
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 1: was shaped by how the media talked about it versus

1424
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:12,800
Speaker 1: what actually happens in the movie, because all, yeah, right,

1425
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:17,240
Speaker 1: where you know, in context, she's taking control of her

1426
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 1: own sexuality and presenting the way she wants to present.

1427
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:22,760
Speaker 1: But the way that, like she was profiled at the time,

1428
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 1: the way she was talked about in the media, was

1429
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:28,839
Speaker 1: very it like had nothing to do with Michelle Pfeifer's performance,

1430
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: which I think is like really awesome. Her performance is great, Yeah,

1431
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:37,320
Speaker 1: And I mean that's just very indicative of the way

1432
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 1: women tend to be perceived, because people tend to value

1433
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:46,160
Speaker 1: women for very specific things like their physical appearance and

1434
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 1: not their skills or artistic talents or brains. Yeah, what

1435
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 1: do we think about the bat cat relation? I love it,

1436
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't hate it. Um it feels a little like

1437
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 1: half baked kind of. But it seemed to me that

1438
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:11,880
Speaker 1: Bruce likes Selena after like he meets her in Tricks

1439
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 1: because I think he thinks she's fierce and powerful and

1440
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,719
Speaker 1: cool and that's what he's drawn to her confidence. Yeah. Yeah,

1441
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,640
Speaker 1: he literally wants her to like step on him, like

1442
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 1: it does kind of like that's the kind of he's

1443
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 1: like this like shy weirdo. That's like he came to

1444
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 1: this super freak party hoping you'd be here. Like she

1445
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: wants him to step on him, and she would, but

1446
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:39,400
Speaker 1: she's busy. Yeah, she's booked it busy. She's busy killing

1447
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:41,840
Speaker 1: Max Strick. She's literally like, there's a bedroom in the

1448
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 1: other room if you want to like get this done. Yeah.

1449
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 1: I love how horny she is. And he's like, whoa, whoa,

1450
01:25:49,400 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 1: what we had superhero movies could be He was so horny.

1451
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:56,439
Speaker 1: It's so they're so like so funny. The scene where

1452
01:25:56,479 --> 01:25:58,559
Speaker 1: they like first fight and she's like, you can't hit me,

1453
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 1: I'm a woman. He's like, okay, so you're right. I'm

1454
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 1: so sorry, and then she kicks him in the faces.

1455
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,479
Speaker 1: I wrote all of this down because I love this good.

1456
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 1: It's great. That's the first fight between them. They're fighting,

1457
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 1: she's holding her own but he knocks her down and

1458
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:15,640
Speaker 1: then she says, how could you I'm a woman, and

1459
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 1: then he's like, oh, I'm sorry, and then he like

1460
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 1: goes to help her up, but it was a trick.

1461
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:23,040
Speaker 1: She kicks him. She gets the upper hand and knocks

1462
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 1: him over a ledge, so he's like dangling there, holding

1463
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 1: on by her whip. And then she was like, as

1464
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 1: I was saying, I'm a woman and can't be taken

1465
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 1: for granted, and that's when she says, life's a bit now,

1466
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:38,760
Speaker 1: so am I, And we're like, She's got a lot

1467
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 1: of great lines. It's really really fun. I really do

1468
01:26:43,439 --> 01:26:47,080
Speaker 1: like how like cartoony the script is even at the

1469
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:52,160
Speaker 1: beginning where it's all of her like single lady lines

1470
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 1: are so weird but funny, where she's like it just

1471
01:26:57,439 --> 01:27:00,400
Speaker 1: it's literally sounds like a comic strip where you walk

1472
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:03,800
Speaker 1: in you're like, honey, I'm home. Oh wait, I don't

1473
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 1: have a husband. I'm like, that's a cavy strap, and

1474
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:09,960
Speaker 1: then like the single cam like laugh track. Yeah, it's

1475
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 1: it's so especially because they like go so hard against

1476
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 1: it and that in the rest of the movie that

1477
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:19,559
Speaker 1: it like totally works. I loved that she uses the

1478
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:23,400
Speaker 1: clown taser at the end. She kept the clowns taser

1479
01:27:24,280 --> 01:27:28,960
Speaker 1: um planning payoff baby um the only thing that kind

1480
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:31,559
Speaker 1: of like pinged for me. And we just talked about

1481
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,760
Speaker 1: something similar on the Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead

1482
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:40,120
Speaker 1: episode where a female character's wait gets just kind of mentioned.

1483
01:27:40,160 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 1: There's a moment where Selena is like, she and Bruce

1484
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:48,559
Speaker 1: are talking and they're kind of commenting on the news coverage,

1485
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:52,559
Speaker 1: like the media coverage of Batman and Catwoman, and Selena

1486
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,080
Speaker 1: says something like, oh, you know, there's like this rumor

1487
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 1: going around that Catwoman is thought to weigh a hundred

1488
01:27:58,240 --> 01:28:02,040
Speaker 1: and forty pounds, as if she thinks that's too much

1489
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 1: and she doesn't weigh that much, and she resents that

1490
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:07,760
Speaker 1: people think she's she weighs more than she actually is.

1491
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:12,840
Speaker 1: Really jumped out in that moment because you're I honestly

1492
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:16,000
Speaker 1: was like confused by that line at first, because I

1493
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 1: was like, what is even being said, because that's just

1494
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:22,880
Speaker 1: like it's whatever I mean that I do. We've talked

1495
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 1: about that before too, was like that that's like the

1496
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:28,680
Speaker 1: kind of ship that gives young people eating disorders, as

1497
01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:32,840
Speaker 1: someone who famously had my my e D cranked up

1498
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:35,639
Speaker 1: to an eleven by an offhand line in a Family

1499
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:39,920
Speaker 1: Guy episode, Uh, you really can't be it's like the

1500
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:44,800
Speaker 1: numbers specifically that really bugs me where it's like, yeah,

1501
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:47,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, that that was like a very

1502
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:50,439
Speaker 1: bizarre one. It's just a lazy choice to make like

1503
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:54,639
Speaker 1: the one female character in the movie mention her weight

1504
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:57,519
Speaker 1: or be concerned about her weight. And as these movies

1505
01:28:57,560 --> 01:29:00,960
Speaker 1: always do act in such a way that women being

1506
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:05,840
Speaker 1: concerned about their image and their weight just happens in

1507
01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:10,559
Speaker 1: a void has nothing to do with the societal pressure

1508
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:15,840
Speaker 1: we place on women for how they look. So yeah,

1509
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:18,760
Speaker 1: that line, that line bumped me out. There's a really

1510
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:21,240
Speaker 1: funny um I stand it to you, Caitlin, there's a

1511
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:25,640
Speaker 1: really Dani Schwartz like three years ago, Live tweeted this

1512
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 1: entire movie and also called out that line of like

1513
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 1: what are they saying here? Like truly was oh no,

1514
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:34,559
Speaker 1: And then if you think about it for a second,

1515
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:37,360
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I guess brain where it was like

1516
01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:40,599
Speaker 1: that messaging was kind of like approaching and all time

1517
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 1: high because we're in like the what is that Kate

1518
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:49,639
Speaker 1: moss quote whatever that era food doesn't taste as good

1519
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:53,599
Speaker 1: as skinny field or whatever. The fuck? Yeah? Remember we

1520
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 1: were ever you know the words that shaped and haunted us? Um? Yeah,

1521
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:03,320
Speaker 1: so yeah, I I also clocked that. Unfortunately it's one

1522
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:07,759
Speaker 1: line and doesn't really come up again. Yeah. The last

1523
01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:10,439
Speaker 1: I think one of the last things I have is

1524
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 1: um the scene where she goes on the date with Bruce.

1525
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:19,160
Speaker 1: She makes the first move and it's intense. Okay, it

1526
01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:23,880
Speaker 1: is possibly a surprise kiss because she lunges at him.

1527
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:26,759
Speaker 1: She does lunge at him. However, he has just said

1528
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:29,439
Speaker 1: that he wants to kill, wants to kiss. So I

1529
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:32,679
Speaker 1: felt like, maybe I'm giving Catwoman a pass on that one.

1530
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:35,120
Speaker 1: She came in hot. Yeah, but I'm gonna give her.

1531
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 1: She came in hot. She was like, I cannot wait

1532
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:41,280
Speaker 1: to kiss you. Will you let me? And she's like

1533
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:43,800
Speaker 1: I see that, and I raise you. I'm going to

1534
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 1: kiss you by pouncing on you like a cat. She's like,

1535
01:30:46,600 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 1: I might actually eat you. Um, but yeah, I don't know.

1536
01:30:51,479 --> 01:30:54,920
Speaker 1: I think that like their relationship, Like it doesn't. I

1537
01:30:55,240 --> 01:31:00,839
Speaker 1: just it's like so nice to see horny super horny

1538
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:06,280
Speaker 1: woman visibility. I love it incredibly horny. It's good. Yeah,

1539
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:10,640
Speaker 1: I do like because we talked about the trope of

1540
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:13,599
Speaker 1: a woman using a frying pan as a weapon. She

1541
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:16,559
Speaker 1: uses a frying pan, but it's to smash up her

1542
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:20,639
Speaker 1: own apartment. I liked it, followed by the line where

1543
01:31:20,680 --> 01:31:23,160
Speaker 1: she says, I don't know about you, miss Kitty, but

1544
01:31:23,280 --> 01:31:27,880
Speaker 1: I feel so much yummier, iconic, iconic, so good. I'm

1545
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:32,960
Speaker 1: gonna start saying that to Flee Um and he's going

1546
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,400
Speaker 1: to love every damn second of it, or I'm disowning.

1547
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:38,760
Speaker 1: Oh the stakes are high. Yeah, the stakes are high

1548
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 1: from Mr Flee I will say every time I watched

1549
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:44,960
Speaker 1: this movie. So right after she transforms into Catwoman and

1550
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:48,880
Speaker 1: then she's on the prowl, as you might say, on

1551
01:31:48,920 --> 01:31:51,479
Speaker 1: the streets of Gotham, the first thing she does as

1552
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:56,480
Speaker 1: Catwoman is to save a woman from being sexually assaulted

1553
01:31:56,600 --> 01:31:59,360
Speaker 1: by Oops, one of the few people of color in

1554
01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 1: the movie, which unfortunately is very in line with like

1555
01:32:03,479 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 1: Tim because his movies are so aggressively white that he's

1556
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:10,720
Speaker 1: even defended it um, which was like, why would I

1557
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:13,679
Speaker 1: play non white people in my movie? And we're like Tim,

1558
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:17,280
Speaker 1: what did he say? Wait? Was was I'd have to

1559
01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 1: look up the exact quote. We've discussed it on the

1560
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:21,519
Speaker 1: show before. I think that this was around because he

1561
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:23,280
Speaker 1: it was like to the point where he had to

1562
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 1: like walk this back. This was Did it have something

1563
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 1: to do with the Miss Peregrine's Peculiar Children House Peregrine

1564
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 1: Home for Peculiar Children? Yeah, okay. He said this to

1565
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 1: writer Rachel Simon in and it was on the Miss

1566
01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:46,519
Speaker 1: Peregrine um Press Stork, he said. Quote. Nowadays people are

1567
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:49,920
Speaker 1: talking about it more, he says, regarding on screen diversity.

1568
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:52,960
Speaker 1: But quote, things either call for things or they don't.

1569
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:55,160
Speaker 1: I remember back when I was a child watching The

1570
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:57,639
Speaker 1: Brady Bunch and they started to get all politically correct,

1571
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 1: like okay, let's have an Asian child and a black child.

1572
01:33:01,680 --> 01:33:03,720
Speaker 1: I used to get more offended by that than just

1573
01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:07,160
Speaker 1: I grew up watching black sploitation movies, right, and I

1574
01:33:07,200 --> 01:33:10,160
Speaker 1: said that's great. I didn't go like, Okay, there should

1575
01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:13,639
Speaker 1: be more white people in these movies. Unquote it it's

1576
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:20,000
Speaker 1: just like the most white. This is the same as

1577
01:33:20,040 --> 01:33:23,320
Speaker 1: like every time anyone complains about their people clear casting

1578
01:33:23,479 --> 01:33:28,880
Speaker 1: anything like Star Wars or something, and the logic of like, oh,

1579
01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:31,000
Speaker 1: they can have their own movies and it's like no,

1580
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:33,720
Speaker 1: like this is not you can't talk like this. You

1581
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:40,240
Speaker 1: can't don't stop stop talking, like shut your mouth, Tim Burton.

1582
01:33:40,439 --> 01:33:45,320
Speaker 1: So that's like, especially remembering him making those comments, like

1583
01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 1: seeing that you're just like this is like a very

1584
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 1: intentional joy. This is intentional absolutely. So Catwoman is saving

1585
01:33:52,479 --> 01:33:56,519
Speaker 1: another woman from being sexually assaulted and then the woman's like,

1586
01:33:56,520 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, thank you. But then Catwoman kind of

1587
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,920
Speaker 1: victim blames the woman and it's like, well, you make

1588
01:34:02,960 --> 01:34:04,880
Speaker 1: it so easy. You're always just waiting around for some

1589
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:07,680
Speaker 1: batman to save you. And so it's always at this

1590
01:34:07,720 --> 01:34:09,599
Speaker 1: point in the movie when you see her save when

1591
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:13,000
Speaker 1: you see Catwoman save this other person, and I'm always like, oh,

1592
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:16,400
Speaker 1: she's about to go on this like vigilante almost like

1593
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 1: the movie Teeth, where she's like like, I'm just gonna

1594
01:34:20,360 --> 01:34:24,280
Speaker 1: protect women and save women from these predatory men. And

1595
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 1: I always think that that's the direction the Catwoman character

1596
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:30,559
Speaker 1: is going to go in, but she quickly abandons any

1597
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:33,760
Speaker 1: sort of like ally ship to other women and then

1598
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:37,760
Speaker 1: just like goes after Shrek, which I don't know, I mean,

1599
01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:41,320
Speaker 1: it's just I guess it's just like me having certain

1600
01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:46,759
Speaker 1: once and wishes for the Catwoman character, but I certainly

1601
01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:49,080
Speaker 1: would have liked for that to be the direction that

1602
01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:51,880
Speaker 1: she went in. But like, it's sort of the same

1603
01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:53,960
Speaker 1: point as like when I mentioned this scene earlier where

1604
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:58,080
Speaker 1: it's like you can understand why that is her reaction

1605
01:34:58,160 --> 01:35:01,880
Speaker 1: to saving that woman, Like it's not right obviously, but

1606
01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:05,960
Speaker 1: the way that she, like, the social conditioning around her

1607
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:08,760
Speaker 1: basically is telling her this, and it's also why she

1608
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:13,160
Speaker 1: rejects that kind of more feminine aesthetic as Cat Woman. Yeah.

1609
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:17,880
Speaker 1: I honestly wasn't like super bugged by that, Like I

1610
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:20,280
Speaker 1: think it makes a point. Yeah, yeah, I see what

1611
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:22,320
Speaker 1: you mean. Yeah, I think the only the only thing

1612
01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:25,120
Speaker 1: that I felt like in this movie was like characterizing

1613
01:35:25,160 --> 01:35:28,559
Speaker 1: the was it like ice princess, or like characterizing her

1614
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:32,640
Speaker 1: as such a bimbo, very dizzy, as a as a

1615
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:36,760
Speaker 1: proud bimbo and a bimbo apologist. I just feel like, yeah,

1616
01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:39,479
Speaker 1: making her just kind of a classic bimbo. Yeah, it's

1617
01:35:39,479 --> 01:35:42,000
Speaker 1: a little cruel. Yeah, I mean it's such a small

1618
01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:44,800
Speaker 1: part of the movie, but unless she gets murdered, Yeah,

1619
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:47,160
Speaker 1: it's always like a while like a movie where it's like, oh,

1620
01:35:47,200 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 1: we can only have one woman we're really thinking about

1621
01:35:50,560 --> 01:35:52,840
Speaker 1: in the movie, like we can't characterize more than one

1622
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:59,800
Speaker 1: that would be whatever. I feel like the only other

1623
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:03,760
Speaker 1: woman besides Catwoman and the Ice Princess who has any

1624
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:06,720
Speaker 1: significant screen time. And it's not as though this woman

1625
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:10,559
Speaker 1: has a lot. But there's a million of penguins. She

1626
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:13,639
Speaker 1: has a little dog love her. She seems to be

1627
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:19,880
Speaker 1: one of penguins, like right hand minions. She's she's high

1628
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:21,920
Speaker 1: up in the ranks. What's going on with her? But

1629
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:25,080
Speaker 1: she doesn't speak until the very end, And it's her

1630
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:28,439
Speaker 1: who's like giving the countdown. Is like of like, oh,

1631
01:36:28,479 --> 01:36:32,240
Speaker 1: the penguins are going to reach their destination and team

1632
01:36:32,280 --> 01:36:36,719
Speaker 1: minus fifteen seconds. She's really just there for fun. Yeah.

1633
01:36:36,760 --> 01:36:38,439
Speaker 1: I loved her. She's there for love of the game.

1634
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 1: She is like droning through narrating the height of the

1635
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,120
Speaker 1: action of the movie. She's like, the penguins are going

1636
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:51,040
Speaker 1: in a different direction, looks like there's coming towards us.

1637
01:36:51,120 --> 01:36:54,719
Speaker 1: I just that's the kind of like Tim Burton character

1638
01:36:54,760 --> 01:36:57,560
Speaker 1: I really like. Of just like a woman who is

1639
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:04,559
Speaker 1: bored by something very exciting that's always so fun. I uh, yeah,

1640
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:08,439
Speaker 1: I liked her. The dog is so cute. Yeah, it's

1641
01:37:08,439 --> 01:37:11,559
Speaker 1: like a little busted. It's very cute. It's a good dog.

1642
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:18,200
Speaker 1: It's a good boy. Um, feminist icon. The duck Boat, penguin,

1643
01:37:18,320 --> 01:37:20,200
Speaker 1: My god, the boat. We haven't even talked about the

1644
01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:25,160
Speaker 1: duck Boat. It's so good. It's so it's so I

1645
01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:27,720
Speaker 1: love like, it's perfect when a movie is just like

1646
01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:31,519
Speaker 1: and we just talked about the many ways in which

1647
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:36,320
Speaker 1: Tim Burton is a relic at this point, but I

1648
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 1: do love to watch a director absolutely abuse a big budget.

1649
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:45,479
Speaker 1: It's so fun like, it's so like the It's cannon

1650
01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:48,920
Speaker 1: that he was just like, no performance artists, Let's go bigger,

1651
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:51,879
Speaker 1: let's go full circus at the zoo. For no reason.

1652
01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:55,519
Speaker 1: We need animatronic penguins. We need people penguins, and we

1653
01:37:55,560 --> 01:37:59,719
Speaker 1: need penguin penguins. There's nowhere around it. Um. The animal

1654
01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:01,800
Speaker 1: rights stuff in this movie, we can't go there because

1655
01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:07,280
Speaker 1: Michelle Fiber put a real bird in her mouth. So

1656
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:09,400
Speaker 1: we wish that we're the best and hope it went

1657
01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:13,240
Speaker 1: on to thrive. Um. But it's just like, this movie

1658
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:17,960
Speaker 1: is so The duck Boat. The duck Boat is wonderful.

1659
01:38:18,200 --> 01:38:20,839
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm obsessed with the duck Boat. The train,

1660
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:25,120
Speaker 1: Why is there a train. I do want to shout

1661
01:38:25,120 --> 01:38:28,960
Speaker 1: out the penguins. They're so cute. They are so cute.

1662
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:33,280
Speaker 1: They're very good. They frowned when the penguin dies. So cute.

1663
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:38,479
Speaker 1: It's so sad. They're sad for their friends. They're literally

1664
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:42,280
Speaker 1: it's it's literally like if Grew died, what would happen.

1665
01:38:42,600 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 1: It's exactly like if Crew died, they would be beside themselves.

1666
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:50,280
Speaker 1: They would not the Canada that they are like especially

1667
01:38:50,360 --> 01:38:54,400
Speaker 1: devoted to Grew because they've had like other masters, right, yeah,

1668
01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:57,559
Speaker 1: don't Yeah, they've had a lot of They've worked for

1669
01:38:57,560 --> 01:38:59,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people, but grew as special to that.

1670
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:02,840
Speaker 1: But they love Grew okay, because Grew takes all their

1671
01:39:02,840 --> 01:39:06,320
Speaker 1: boxes where It's like usually their bosses are really evil

1672
01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:10,080
Speaker 1: and also abusive towards them, but grew as evil and

1673
01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:12,559
Speaker 1: nice to them, so they love Grew. He takes care

1674
01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:16,720
Speaker 1: of them. Okay. They kind of grew up together. They

1675
01:39:16,760 --> 01:39:21,080
Speaker 1: grew up together. They grew they grew up and they

1676
01:39:21,200 --> 01:39:25,800
Speaker 1: grew up together. There was I was sitting, Okay, this

1677
01:39:25,880 --> 01:39:28,360
Speaker 1: is my last tangent of the episode. I promised I

1678
01:39:28,439 --> 01:39:32,120
Speaker 1: was taking a mega bus from Rhode Island to New weekend,

1679
01:39:32,520 --> 01:39:36,000
Speaker 1: because yeah, I'm kind of a fucking sleb. But I

1680
01:39:36,040 --> 01:39:39,960
Speaker 1: was sitting next to this college student who was talking

1681
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:41,760
Speaker 1: on the phone with one of his boys for the

1682
01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:44,920
Speaker 1: duration of the bus. It was it was really long

1683
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:47,840
Speaker 1: and obnoxious, but it was just like he was such

1684
01:39:48,080 --> 01:39:50,960
Speaker 1: a bro with like three brain cells that he was

1685
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:53,240
Speaker 1: really like getting some good quips and every once and

1686
01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:56,960
Speaker 1: again like he was just he was objectifying his classmates

1687
01:39:57,040 --> 01:40:00,879
Speaker 1: the whole call boy. But at one point he was like, yeah,

1688
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:04,559
Speaker 1: you know, Christina, she kind of really glue. How do

1689
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:07,680
Speaker 1: I she glew up over the summer? Did I say that? Right?

1690
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:10,200
Speaker 1: She blew up? And then you could hear the guy

1691
01:40:10,240 --> 01:40:11,880
Speaker 1: on the other line and be like, yeah, no, I

1692
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:15,120
Speaker 1: get it. And then he just like I was like,

1693
01:40:15,200 --> 01:40:19,760
Speaker 1: oh god, that's incredible. She blew up. He couldn't think

1694
01:40:19,760 --> 01:40:23,240
Speaker 1: of the word glowed amazing. He was literally coming from

1695
01:40:23,360 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 1: Brown University. It was just how we get Max Trex

1696
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:32,360
Speaker 1: out there blew up over the summer. It was nasty.

1697
01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:37,080
Speaker 1: Al Right, Well, Batman Returns? Does anyone have anything else

1698
01:40:37,240 --> 01:40:41,479
Speaker 1: to say about Batman Returns? Um There was supposed to

1699
01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:46,000
Speaker 1: be a sequel where Catwoman Michelle Fifefer. Catwoman had her

1700
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:48,880
Speaker 1: own own story. It was supposed to also be done

1701
01:40:48,920 --> 01:40:52,640
Speaker 1: with Daniel Waters and Tim Burton Um and it follows

1702
01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:58,360
Speaker 1: her to a like more Las Vegas e location. It

1703
01:40:58,400 --> 01:41:01,120
Speaker 1: sounds like it would have been great, but it never happened.

1704
01:41:01,280 --> 01:41:03,200
Speaker 1: Damn it. Here's my last thing to say. Well, I

1705
01:41:03,200 --> 01:41:04,880
Speaker 1: guess I have like two less things. One of them

1706
01:41:05,000 --> 01:41:08,280
Speaker 1: is I do think it's funny that people complain about

1707
01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:10,679
Speaker 1: like Batman not being in this movie enough, because ultimately

1708
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:15,160
Speaker 1: it is a Catwoman movie, Like Batman is fairly incidental

1709
01:41:15,360 --> 01:41:18,120
Speaker 1: to what goes on in the film. This is a

1710
01:41:18,200 --> 01:41:21,880
Speaker 1: movie about Catwoman and the penguin, like it's their movie.

1711
01:41:22,200 --> 01:41:26,240
Speaker 1: They are the two far more strongly motivated characters, and

1712
01:41:26,280 --> 01:41:28,720
Speaker 1: Batman is just like, well, I'm Batman, so I have

1713
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:32,680
Speaker 1: to stop these people. But yeah, exactly, like he is

1714
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:35,440
Speaker 1: called to the scene, like he did not create the scene.

1715
01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:38,560
Speaker 1: I kind of like that this movie is like comfortable

1716
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:43,000
Speaker 1: with Batman being a little bit boring, Like yeah, because

1717
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:45,400
Speaker 1: I don't even think Batman is like obviously he's like

1718
01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:48,599
Speaker 1: not a boring character, but I like that this movie

1719
01:41:48,640 --> 01:41:50,799
Speaker 1: is sort of like, well, he's not the most interesting

1720
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:54,520
Speaker 1: character in the movie, and we're comfortable with that he returns,

1721
01:41:54,920 --> 01:41:58,040
Speaker 1: but you know, kind of to a more incidental degree

1722
01:41:58,040 --> 01:42:00,960
Speaker 1: than you would imagine, Right, I totally agree with that.

1723
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:04,599
Speaker 1: I love My second point is that dating bed is hot.

1724
01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:08,560
Speaker 1: We should recognize that more. I think as a society. Absolutely,

1725
01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:11,920
Speaker 1: his energy, Oh my god, he's hot. He's a socialist,

1726
01:42:12,160 --> 01:42:16,320
Speaker 1: his politics are kind of immaculate. What is hotter than that? Yeah? An,

1727
01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:21,240
Speaker 1: he's single, I think, so not divorced, but I guess

1728
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:23,679
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I know that he and Perlin

1729
01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:28,080
Speaker 1: are like separated, but they're not divorced. I don't find

1730
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:31,599
Speaker 1: that disqualifying. Yeah, if he comes up, but I was like,

1731
01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:36,559
Speaker 1: if he if he comes up on Bumble, yeah obviously, no,

1732
01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:38,760
Speaker 1: no question. Yeah, I'll keep an eye out for him

1733
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:45,240
Speaker 1: on Riya. Yeah I'm on Riya. Have I had any luck?

1734
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:51,160
Speaker 1: They're not one iota. I've still not used a dating app.

1735
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:53,600
Speaker 1: So I was just throwing Bumble out there because I

1736
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:57,320
Speaker 1: know it's exists. Yeah, I was on one of them.

1737
01:42:57,320 --> 01:42:58,840
Speaker 1: I want on dating apps for like a month and

1738
01:42:58,880 --> 01:43:00,880
Speaker 1: then I was like, I don't think I enjoy this,

1739
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:06,240
Speaker 1: and so I stopped. They're not great anyway. We saund

1740
01:43:06,280 --> 01:43:08,400
Speaker 1: like Selena Kyle at the beginning of the movie of

1741
01:43:08,439 --> 01:43:11,479
Speaker 1: her like it's a good it's a good note to

1742
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:14,439
Speaker 1: wrap up on because this movie is so horny. So

1743
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:19,360
Speaker 1: now a little bit exactly does the movie pass the

1744
01:43:19,400 --> 01:43:22,439
Speaker 1: Bechdel test? I agree with you, Jamie, I would argue.

1745
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:25,519
Speaker 1: When Selena talks to her female cat whose name we

1746
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:30,240
Speaker 1: know because it's miss Kitty, that passes because here's the conversation.

1747
01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:34,519
Speaker 1: Selena comes home, cat goes me ow. Selena says, Miss

1748
01:43:34,600 --> 01:43:38,519
Speaker 1: Kitty back more sexual escapades. You refuse to share. So

1749
01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:43,759
Speaker 1: they've talked before establishing a relationship. They have a close bond,

1750
01:43:43,960 --> 01:43:49,439
Speaker 1: although miss Kitty is withholding. Miss Kitty says miaw. Selena says,

1751
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:53,679
Speaker 1: drink your dinner. Kat says me ow. Selena says, what

1752
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:56,960
Speaker 1: how can anyone be so pathetic? Yes, to you, I

1753
01:43:57,040 --> 01:44:01,520
Speaker 1: seem pathetic, but I'm a working girl. I gotta pay. Then, yes, Selena,

1754
01:44:01,800 --> 01:44:06,160
Speaker 1: I mean, and that passes the Becktel tests. That passes.

1755
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:10,080
Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. It passes flying.

1756
01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:13,920
Speaker 1: I feel comfortable with that. I feel ecstatic about that.

1757
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:18,080
Speaker 1: Is there much else outside of that? There is a

1758
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:21,760
Speaker 1: brief interaction between Catwoman and the Ice Princess, but they

1759
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:24,800
Speaker 1: don't actually speak to each other on screen. Yeah, at

1760
01:44:24,840 --> 01:44:26,760
Speaker 1: least not really. It would have been fun if she

1761
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:30,120
Speaker 1: could have had a little tete a tete with Penguins

1762
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:34,040
Speaker 1: board associate. But I don't even know if we if

1763
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:35,960
Speaker 1: that character get the name. I just really liked her,

1764
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:41,799
Speaker 1: So Wikipedia just lists her as the poodle lady. Okay,

1765
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:45,879
Speaker 1: love that. Yeah, that's great. I support that Ice Princess

1766
01:44:45,960 --> 01:44:48,639
Speaker 1: is nice. She seemed really nice. I would have loved

1767
01:44:48,680 --> 01:44:52,160
Speaker 1: to get lunch with her, sweetie pie. Yeah, she was great. Absolutely,

1768
01:44:53,240 --> 01:44:57,040
Speaker 1: R I P T I P. But who among us

1769
01:44:57,040 --> 01:44:59,720
Speaker 1: has not wanted to vault into the giant tree at

1770
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:04,280
Speaker 1: Cavilla Center. It's true, It's true. And you know, like

1771
01:45:04,360 --> 01:45:06,200
Speaker 1: if I've got to go at the hands of Danny

1772
01:45:06,280 --> 01:45:09,639
Speaker 1: de Vito, you know it's going to be memorable for sure,

1773
01:45:09,880 --> 01:45:15,479
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. People will talk about it after the fact. Okay,

1774
01:45:15,479 --> 01:45:18,600
Speaker 1: So how about our nipple scale, though, which is a

1775
01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:21,400
Speaker 1: scale of zero to five nipples, and which we rate

1776
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:25,080
Speaker 1: the movie based on looking at it through an intersectional

1777
01:45:25,160 --> 01:45:30,000
Speaker 1: feminist lens. I'm gonna go like three and a half

1778
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:34,120
Speaker 1: of this. I might be bringing some of my bias

1779
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:37,760
Speaker 1: into that score, because I do love this movie so much.

1780
01:45:38,880 --> 01:45:46,280
Speaker 1: As we've discussed, there are there's some things about the

1781
01:45:46,360 --> 01:45:52,200
Speaker 1: coding of the penguin character. It's able is m and

1782
01:45:52,360 --> 01:45:56,000
Speaker 1: anti Semitism that is so present in the coding of

1783
01:45:56,040 --> 01:45:59,600
Speaker 1: so many villains. This movie is kind of no exception,

1784
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:05,000
Speaker 1: but there it's intended or not. It's like it's worth acknowledging. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um,

1785
01:46:05,040 --> 01:46:09,000
Speaker 1: a few other like little missteps here and there. But

1786
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:17,200
Speaker 1: so the screenwriter Daniel Waters was brought in after another

1787
01:46:17,280 --> 01:46:19,639
Speaker 1: writer who I think wrote the screenplay for the first

1788
01:46:19,680 --> 01:46:24,439
Speaker 1: Batman movie, Sam Ham. Sam Ham, his name is Sam Ham.

1789
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:26,920
Speaker 1: That's going to bring some baggage with it if you

1790
01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:29,840
Speaker 1: grow up at that name. He was exactly. He was

1791
01:46:29,880 --> 01:46:32,879
Speaker 1: originally involved in the development of the sequel of Batman

1792
01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:35,479
Speaker 1: Returns and had written I don't know if he wrote

1793
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:37,599
Speaker 1: a full draft or if he was just sort of

1794
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:42,800
Speaker 1: like outlining the story, but basically he was replaced by

1795
01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:45,960
Speaker 1: Daniel Waters or he just like his involvement didn't happen

1796
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:48,680
Speaker 1: the whole way through the development process. But he had

1797
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:53,240
Speaker 1: written a version of Catwoman that Daniel Waters changed because

1798
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:57,839
Speaker 1: Sam Ham's version of Catwoman was just like a quote

1799
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:04,439
Speaker 1: fetishy sexual fantasy fem faetale. Daniel Waters changed her to

1800
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:08,360
Speaker 1: a and again this is pulling from wiki Pete here

1801
01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:13,400
Speaker 1: scholarly journal um changed to a working class, disenchanted secretary,

1802
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:18,280
Speaker 1: writing her as an allegory of contemporary feminism, right, And

1803
01:47:18,360 --> 01:47:21,759
Speaker 1: I feel like the movie kind of nails. It works,

1804
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:26,120
Speaker 1: and we're speaking of white feminism from the early nineties, yes,

1805
01:47:26,120 --> 01:47:29,839
Speaker 1: but spice Girls feminism. But it works. But it works

1806
01:47:30,400 --> 01:47:33,479
Speaker 1: at least for this movie, certainly doing more than a

1807
01:47:33,520 --> 01:47:37,520
Speaker 1: lot of superhero movies are doing now still to this day.

1808
01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:41,160
Speaker 1: If there's a woman in it, it's feminist, right, right,

1809
01:47:41,200 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 1: And they're like, yeah, sure, it's like, let's just have

1810
01:47:43,960 --> 01:47:45,960
Speaker 1: her say some sort of T shirt equips at some

1811
01:47:46,040 --> 01:47:51,200
Speaker 1: point and then Thor is Natalie Portman now until she doesn't,

1812
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:55,960
Speaker 1: And that's awesome. No, not really, Yeah, don't worry, not really.

1813
01:47:56,320 --> 01:47:58,719
Speaker 1: I didn't see that. We would never let a woman

1814
01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:03,360
Speaker 1: be thre. So I just appreciate the movie takes a

1815
01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:08,160
Speaker 1: lot of time to characterize the Selena Kyle slash Catwoman character.

1816
01:48:08,600 --> 01:48:12,160
Speaker 1: It gives her an internal life. We see her at work,

1817
01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:14,880
Speaker 1: we see her at home, we understand all of the

1818
01:48:14,920 --> 01:48:19,320
Speaker 1: context for why she becomes Catwoman, and just all of

1819
01:48:19,320 --> 01:48:23,160
Speaker 1: the societal pressures that she's fighting against. Could she have

1820
01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:27,320
Speaker 1: been more of an ally to other women? Yes, but

1821
01:48:27,439 --> 01:48:30,040
Speaker 1: I think you know, look, this is also how long

1822
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:34,800
Speaker 1: does this movie take over? This this takes place three days? Yeah,

1823
01:48:34,960 --> 01:48:36,920
Speaker 1: I think you know she would have gotten there. You know,

1824
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:39,280
Speaker 1: she just needed a little more time. She just needed

1825
01:48:39,280 --> 01:48:42,240
Speaker 1: more time. That's what she's doing now, exactly. Yeah, she's

1826
01:48:42,240 --> 01:48:46,480
Speaker 1: still but shell Fiber Catwoman is still canonically out there, right, absolutely,

1827
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:50,080
Speaker 1: so I'm sure she does all sorts of incredible The

1828
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:55,040
Speaker 1: character she plays, an antman, is actually Catwoman. Everything about

1829
01:48:55,040 --> 01:48:59,800
Speaker 1: that interesting, right, She's an antman? What a crossover? Right?

1830
01:49:00,040 --> 01:49:03,760
Speaker 1: I only saw the second one, so I was confused. Well,

1831
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:07,040
Speaker 1: she's not in the first one, Okay that I was

1832
01:49:07,080 --> 01:49:11,680
Speaker 1: just confused by the movie anyway, So all of the

1833
01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:15,479
Speaker 1: characterizations she gets, she's given an internal conflict which a

1834
01:49:15,560 --> 01:49:20,200
Speaker 1: lot of female characters are simply not given in movies.

1835
01:49:20,840 --> 01:49:24,080
Speaker 1: And she she's just like a more interesting and fun

1836
01:49:24,160 --> 01:49:27,920
Speaker 1: character than Batman in this movie. I think she and

1837
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:32,440
Speaker 1: Penguin are kind of tied for like most like well characterized,

1838
01:49:32,479 --> 01:49:37,800
Speaker 1: compelling characters for sure. Yes, So with all of that

1839
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:40,719
Speaker 1: in mind, I'm going to give the movie a three

1840
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:45,040
Speaker 1: point five nipple rating. I'll give one to Michelle Pfeiffer,

1841
01:49:45,360 --> 01:49:48,400
Speaker 1: I'll give one to Miss Kitty, I'll give one to

1842
01:49:49,080 --> 01:49:53,280
Speaker 1: feminist icon the duck Boat, and I'll give my half

1843
01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:59,639
Speaker 1: nipple to the line Life's a bitch now, so am I? Yeah,

1844
01:50:00,080 --> 01:50:02,519
Speaker 1: I'll go. I'll go three and a half as well.

1845
01:50:02,520 --> 01:50:07,759
Speaker 1: This movie fucking rules. It's the outside of a bedel

1846
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:09,639
Speaker 1: cast lens. If I was just watching this movie, I'd

1847
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:12,479
Speaker 1: be like, Yeah, greatest thing I've ever seen. Cool, great,

1848
01:50:13,560 --> 01:50:15,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I think that like we've we've

1849
01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:18,080
Speaker 1: kind of singled out this stuff where it's you know,

1850
01:50:18,640 --> 01:50:20,880
Speaker 1: maybe a little dated in some areas, and there are

1851
01:50:20,920 --> 01:50:23,479
Speaker 1: certainly tropes that we've discussed in the past that are

1852
01:50:23,560 --> 01:50:27,360
Speaker 1: present here, um, and you know deserve acknowledgement and calling out.

1853
01:50:27,479 --> 01:50:30,320
Speaker 1: But in terms of like a superhero movie in ninety two,

1854
01:50:30,439 --> 01:50:33,080
Speaker 1: this like movie is doing a hell of a lot

1855
01:50:33,120 --> 01:50:36,200
Speaker 1: of cool stuff. And I love Michelle Pfeiffer. I love

1856
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:40,880
Speaker 1: her cat Woman and disputed top tiercat Woman. No one's

1857
01:50:40,960 --> 01:50:43,479
Speaker 1: doing it like she was doing it. So I'm gonna

1858
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:45,840
Speaker 1: give it three and a half nipples on a give

1859
01:50:46,320 --> 01:50:50,439
Speaker 1: to to Michelle and the remainder to Miss Kitty. Yeah,

1860
01:50:51,720 --> 01:50:54,240
Speaker 1: I'll get a neat for I like from not this

1861
01:50:54,280 --> 01:50:55,920
Speaker 1: specific angle. I would just give it a straight five

1862
01:50:55,960 --> 01:50:57,840
Speaker 1: out of five. I think it's a great I think

1863
01:50:57,840 --> 01:51:01,080
Speaker 1: it's a perfect movie. Um. I mean we've talked about

1864
01:51:01,080 --> 01:51:05,280
Speaker 1: its flaws, but it is a perfect movie for if

1865
01:51:05,280 --> 01:51:09,040
Speaker 1: I had to distribute them, one for pre Catwoman Michelle,

1866
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:11,960
Speaker 1: five for one for post Catwoman Michelle, five for one

1867
01:51:12,040 --> 01:51:15,719
Speaker 1: for the duck Boat, and one for a Day Debuto. Perfect.

1868
01:51:15,960 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 1: Perfect of course. Also it's time for cat Woman Facts

1869
01:51:21,479 --> 01:51:26,000
Speaker 1: with Caitlin. Finally, cat Woman, as far as I know,

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01:51:26,640 --> 01:51:31,560
Speaker 1: has two nipples. And that's Catwoman Facts with Caitlin. Nice.

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01:51:31,640 --> 01:51:35,559
Speaker 1: You're welcome, thank you, Good for her, Good for her,

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01:51:36,040 --> 01:51:38,599
Speaker 1: Karen m hmm. First of all, thank you so much

1873
01:51:38,640 --> 01:51:41,519
Speaker 1: for joining us. Thank you for having me. This was delightful,

1874
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:46,360
Speaker 1: an absolutely iconic movie to discuss it. We've had such

1875
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:50,120
Speaker 1: a nice time. Please come back anytime, any time. Literally

1876
01:51:50,200 --> 01:51:53,120
Speaker 1: just asks me anytime please, I mean truly, like tomorrow

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01:51:53,240 --> 01:51:56,760
Speaker 1: would be great. What are you doing. Let's let's let's

1878
01:51:56,760 --> 01:52:00,000
Speaker 1: do bat nipples next time. I have not seen bat nipple,

1879
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:02,720
Speaker 1: so that would be fascinating for me. It's like it's

1880
01:52:02,720 --> 01:52:04,960
Speaker 1: a pretty wild ride. It's not this movie. It's not

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01:52:05,280 --> 01:52:08,559
Speaker 1: I wouldn't compare it to this movie. But it's got

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01:52:08,560 --> 01:52:14,479
Speaker 1: a lot coming for that's Clooney Batman. Is that right? Yes? Yes,

1883
01:52:14,840 --> 01:52:17,920
Speaker 1: I think so, okay, because then there's it's Valve Batman

1884
01:52:17,920 --> 01:52:20,639
Speaker 1: after that, right, yeah, I always messed up the order.

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01:52:20,800 --> 01:52:24,920
Speaker 1: Oh I forgot there's a Valve Batman. Too many Batman's anyways,

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01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:27,640
Speaker 1: Karen uh, where can we find your online? And what

1887
01:52:27,680 --> 01:52:30,400
Speaker 1: would you like to plug? Um? You can find me

1888
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:34,320
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Karen Wayhan as long as the platform

1889
01:52:34,360 --> 01:52:36,520
Speaker 1: is still active, and you can find me on Instagram

1890
01:52:36,520 --> 01:52:38,759
Speaker 1: at the Karen Hahn and I would love to plug

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01:52:38,800 --> 01:52:40,960
Speaker 1: my book as of recording. It is coming out in

1892
01:52:40,960 --> 01:52:42,639
Speaker 1: a little less than a week. It is called Bong

1893
01:52:42,720 --> 01:52:45,439
Speaker 1: June Hoe Distant Cinema. It is coming out from Abraham's

1894
01:52:45,479 --> 01:52:48,240
Speaker 1: slash Little White Lies. It's just all about Bong June

1895
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:52,880
Speaker 1: host work. Please buy my book, Thank you please, I

1896
01:52:52,920 --> 01:52:56,400
Speaker 1: can't wait, truly, congratulations, thank you so much. It's wild

1897
01:52:56,400 --> 01:52:58,879
Speaker 1: because like some of the preorders have started arriving already,

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01:52:59,000 --> 01:53:02,000
Speaker 1: so which is terrifying to see that it is out

1899
01:53:02,040 --> 01:53:06,400
Speaker 1: in the world. Like some people haven't it's loose, but

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01:53:06,520 --> 01:53:14,000
Speaker 1: Jesus Luz. Yeah, one of my favorite, right up there

1901
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:18,880
Speaker 1: with Life's of Beach. And so thank you so much

1902
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:22,800
Speaker 1: for coming on truly, yeah cock, so come back anytime.

1903
01:53:23,040 --> 01:53:24,720
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me, and truly it

1904
01:53:24,760 --> 01:53:27,160
Speaker 1: would be an honor and a joy to come back

1905
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:30,599
Speaker 1: on the show. I can't wait. We'll email you tomorrow, amazing.

1906
01:53:31,200 --> 01:53:34,400
Speaker 1: You can also follow us on Twitter as long as

1907
01:53:34,479 --> 01:53:41,479
Speaker 1: that platform exists, and yeah, or Instagram. At buck cast

1908
01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:46,120
Speaker 1: you can follow our Patreon a k a. Matreon. Five

1909
01:53:46,160 --> 01:53:49,679
Speaker 1: bucks a month gets you to bonus episodes. It's usually

1910
01:53:49,720 --> 01:53:52,439
Speaker 1: just me and Caitlin kind of choosing movies around a theme.

1911
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:57,400
Speaker 1: So of course it's December, we're doing our holiday round up,

1912
01:53:57,520 --> 01:54:01,280
Speaker 1: so we're doing Linday Lohan Netlix movie. You know, we're

1913
01:54:01,320 --> 01:54:05,280
Speaker 1: bringing the hits. We also just did mob March, which

1914
01:54:05,320 --> 01:54:08,920
Speaker 1: we observed in November. So if we had to put

1915
01:54:08,920 --> 01:54:11,360
Speaker 1: our thoughts on just because I feel like people have

1916
01:54:11,439 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 1: been harassing us about The Godfather for so long, and

1917
01:54:15,439 --> 01:54:17,160
Speaker 1: by that I mean people who have never listened to

1918
01:54:17,160 --> 01:54:19,519
Speaker 1: our show and don't think what we have to say

1919
01:54:19,600 --> 01:54:22,120
Speaker 1: it should be taken seriously. So we put that behind

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01:54:22,120 --> 01:54:24,320
Speaker 1: a paywall. I think we take a pretty good job.

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01:54:24,600 --> 01:54:28,400
Speaker 1: We both liked the movie, so funk you Young Robert DeNiro,

1922
01:54:28,560 --> 01:54:34,160
Speaker 1: My god, hot, young Albaccino, Oh my god, hot, get

1923
01:54:34,200 --> 01:54:38,840
Speaker 1: inside me. All right, let's that's all. At Patreon dot

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01:54:38,880 --> 01:54:42,000
Speaker 1: com slash backtel cast for five dollars a month. Uh,

1925
01:54:42,120 --> 01:54:45,520
Speaker 1: and then you've also got our merch. Hey, you're not

1926
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:48,800
Speaker 1: sure what to get your loved ones for the holidays,

1927
01:54:49,160 --> 01:54:51,360
Speaker 1: consider going to Tea Parts get them a copy of

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01:54:51,400 --> 01:54:56,160
Speaker 1: Karen's book and then go then go to tea Public

1929
01:54:56,200 --> 01:54:59,920
Speaker 1: dot com slash the Bectel cast for some merchand day.

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01:55:00,360 --> 01:55:03,640
Speaker 1: I am actually someone who has received Bechtel Cast merge

1931
01:55:03,800 --> 01:55:05,840
Speaker 1: for a holiday and it was a great gift, so

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01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:09,160
Speaker 1: I would recommend it. Yeah, and we didn't even plan that.

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01:55:10,240 --> 01:55:12,880
Speaker 1: We didn't even plan that. It's the gift that keeps

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01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:17,440
Speaker 1: on giving. Anyway. Life's a bitch, and so are we.

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Speaker 1: By