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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom Never told you?

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Speaker 1: From House top Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly Molly. One of

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Speaker 1: my favorite childhood movies was Mary Poppins. Mine too. But

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you a little something about me and

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Speaker 1: old Mary Poppins. Okay, well I did. I loved Mary

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Speaker 1: Poppins said a shot. I would sing along with her.

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Speaker 1: I thought she was delightful. I wondered what else she

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Speaker 1: would pull out of that magical bag of hers. But

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Speaker 1: you know who I really wanted to hang out with

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Speaker 1: in Mary Poppins, that lady who fed the birds. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: she scared me. I wanted to hang out with the

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Speaker 1: chimney sweet Dick Van Dyke. Oh, I mean I liked

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Speaker 1: it when he came by. But Jim Jimminy, Jim Jimminy.

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Speaker 1: He had the best song. I would have hung out

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Speaker 1: with Mary over him. Yeah. Yeah, you're more than nanny type.

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Speaker 1: I'm more of the sweeps. I didn't like how dirty

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Speaker 1: the children got when they went through the chimneys of London,

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Speaker 1: and I guess maybe I should have hung out with

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Speaker 1: the uptype mother didn't like father when the children got dirty. Well,

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Speaker 1: obviously Mary Poppins is not the most realistic representation of

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Speaker 1: the nanny profession. A lot of times you know they're

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Speaker 1: not going to fly to your house. At least you

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Speaker 1: know they'll drive um and maybe you might not end

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Speaker 1: up in like a cartoon dreamland. But this is really

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Speaker 1: bringing me down, Kristen. Let that end out to reality.

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Speaker 1: But I think that that's a good point to make

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Speaker 1: because I think that people who hire nanny's might wish

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Speaker 1: that that could be their experience. Yeah, Because wouldn't you

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Speaker 1: say if you think about the stereotype of nanny's as

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Speaker 1: presented in Mary Poppins, and the stereotype of nanny's and

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Speaker 1: having a nanny in today's culture vastly different, vastly different.

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Speaker 1: I bet their mom's who would gladly return to Mary

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Speaker 1: Poppins world and be okay with a woman who takes

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Speaker 1: an umbrella, like you said, to their house, right, Because

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Speaker 1: now it's the associations with nanny's or kind of negative.

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Speaker 1: While they are providing this important service to families, we

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Speaker 1: have these ideas about nanny's, you know, encroaching on husbands

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Speaker 1: and sealing children's love away from their mothers, and nanny

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Speaker 1: camps catching them slapping babies. And you know, there was

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Speaker 1: an article UH in Forbes about how so many celebrity

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Speaker 1: mothers have to hire nanny's in order to get everything

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Speaker 1: done understandable their fabulous film careers and their fabulous bodies

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Speaker 1: and their fabulous home life. But they make sure there

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Speaker 1: nanny's are never seen in photographs, you know, they always

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Speaker 1: you know, it's always Angeli and Joe Lee you see

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Speaker 1: carrying her children, whereas you never see a nanny carrying

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Speaker 1: her children. Yeah, but you know the nanny's back there,

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Speaker 1: you do. And so I think that they're kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, they're they make us guilty, They make mothers guilty.

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Speaker 1: One that they had to hire a nanny, but to

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Speaker 1: just that, you know, they may not be fulfilling some

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Speaker 1: societal stereotype of motherhood that you know, society forces upon them.

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Speaker 1: Because even Therry Poppins had that dark undercurrent of the

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Speaker 1: mother not being there because she was, you know, a

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Speaker 1: radical feminist suffragette. Now, according to the Bureau of Labor

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Speaker 1: Statistics that UH terms nanny ing, as I believe just

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Speaker 1: domestic what's the term formerly domesticstic record domestic worker, just

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Speaker 1: a general domestic worker also includes caregivers for the elderly

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Speaker 1: who might be in home as well are maids. Now.

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Speaker 1: I think that there are on the record around half

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Speaker 1: a million nanny's employed in the US, but you can't

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Speaker 1: really rely on those statistics because there are plenty of

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Speaker 1: nanny's who are being paid under the table and off

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Speaker 1: the record, which this sort of secret side of the

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Speaker 1: nannying industry is one one big problem that we'll get

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Speaker 1: to a little bit later on. But needless to say,

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Speaker 1: there are lots of nanny's out there. And I would

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Speaker 1: even argue that this whole guilt issue with nanny's is

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Speaker 1: is kind of going against the fact that the rise

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Speaker 1: in nanny ing is reflective of the rise of women

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Speaker 1: in the work place, because no longer are nanny's reserved

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Speaker 1: for just the Angelina Jolie's of the world, just for

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Speaker 1: the extremely wealthy. Now you have many women are in

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Speaker 1: many dual income households that need to have a nanny

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Speaker 1: because both mom and dad are working, and they can

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Speaker 1: make that choice because they've got a range of childcare options,

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Speaker 1: and they'd prefer to have someone in their home. It's

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Speaker 1: easier for them to have someone in their home, uh

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Speaker 1: than taking a kid to daycare, for example. But you know,

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Speaker 1: while there's also angst about taking a kid to daycare,

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Speaker 1: I think there's something that brings on this special ankst

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Speaker 1: of having a woman in your home or a man,

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Speaker 1: but more nanny's tend to be women. Having a woman

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Speaker 1: in your home that's not you, that's tasked with raising

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Speaker 1: your children. And a lot of the articles that we

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Speaker 1: read to get Right for this podcast talked about how

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Speaker 1: fragile that relationship is between mother and nanny. I mean,

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Speaker 1: technically it's an employer employee relationship, but there are these

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Speaker 1: high powered women who you know, at the workplace can

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Speaker 1: give orders left and right and uh enforced authority and

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Speaker 1: make decisions who become like deer in the headlights when

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Speaker 1: confronted with a discussion with their nanny's right. Because I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it can be difficult to delegate the raising of

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Speaker 1: your child and sometimes on top of that, the care

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Speaker 1: of your home to someone else. And sometimes it's just

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Speaker 1: it's just a matter of you know, not communicating clear enough.

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Speaker 1: They might think that you know if they if they

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Speaker 1: tell nanny one thing just kind of casually, that the

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Speaker 1: nanny will understand exactly what they mean, and that's not

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Speaker 1: always the case. I think we should back up and

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Speaker 1: point out that nanny's are not a one size fits

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Speaker 1: all type of employee. According to the International Nanny Association

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Speaker 1: that you can visit at Nanny's dot org, there are

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Speaker 1: three main models of nanny care, which is custodial care,

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Speaker 1: coordinated care, and surrogate care. And within those three umbrellas

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Speaker 1: you have all different branches of nanny ng such as

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Speaker 1: sleep trainers, which are nannies that come in just to

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Speaker 1: train your children to sleep well. And Molly, I think

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Speaker 1: that I could use a sleep trainer if I had

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Speaker 1: a little more disposal income. That sounds pretty great being

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Speaker 1: taught how to sleep perfectly. And then you also have

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Speaker 1: oh pairs for instance, who are people who come in

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Speaker 1: from overseas to oversee the children, and it's generally they're

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Speaker 1: only allowed to take care of kids for up to

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Speaker 1: a year and then they'll have to apply for a

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Speaker 1: special it's visa extension. And you have newborn care specialists

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Speaker 1: for those first few difficult months with their your little

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Speaker 1: bundle of joy when you're getting used to everything. So

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Speaker 1: they're all all sources of of nanny's. Well, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about these models that you throughout, Kristen, because it seems

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Speaker 1: like a lot of the tension that comes between mothers

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Speaker 1: and nanny's are when the lines of what's expected of

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Speaker 1: the nanny are blurred both to the nanny and to

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Speaker 1: the parents. And so the first one you mentioned custodial care.

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Speaker 1: That means that the nanny's role is limited to meeting

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Speaker 1: the children's physical and emotional need during their parents absence.

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Speaker 1: In this model, the parents manage the children's safe by

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Speaker 1: providing the nanny the specific guidance, and the nanny does

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Speaker 1: not have a voice regarding child wearing practices or parenting philosophies.

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Speaker 1: That's text that's directly from this International Nanny Association. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's someone who's just in the home doing exactly

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Speaker 1: what the parents want with the child. Now, in a

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Speaker 1: coordinated model of nanny care, the nanny is a team

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Speaker 1: player in raising the child. You know, the nanny is

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Speaker 1: essentially a partner with the parents. She can decide how

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Speaker 1: they're going to spend their days, and that's sort of

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Speaker 1: the middle ground between coordinated and surrogate model, and the

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Speaker 1: surrogate role is that even applies. The nanny is the

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Speaker 1: primary caregiver. You know that the parents might be traveling

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Speaker 1: a lot, and the nanny has to make all of the

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Speaker 1: the decisions for the child, you know, whether to take

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Speaker 1: it to the doctor or whether to keep it home

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Speaker 1: from preschool. And UH, I think it's when people don't

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Speaker 1: know exactly which model they're using and exactly what the

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Speaker 1: nanny's role is that a lot of this um tension

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Speaker 1: comes into place right And obviously, no matter what type

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Speaker 1: of nanny you're doing, it comes with a lot of

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Speaker 1: responsibility because like or not, you're responsible for other little

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Speaker 1: human beings and making sure that they are safe and sound.

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Speaker 1: So how much are they compensated for all of this

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Speaker 1: responsibility Because a lot of times they're in the homes

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Speaker 1: of people who are doing pretty well. They're fairly well off.

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Speaker 1: According to the International Nanny Association UH live out nanny's

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Speaker 1: nanny's who don't live with a family are paid on

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Speaker 1: average an hourly rate of anywhere from seven to twenty

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Speaker 1: dollars per hour. And then you have full time live

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Speaker 1: in nanny's who are the more Mary Poppin style. They

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Speaker 1: stay at the house seven who earn anywhere from three

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Speaker 1: hundred to a thousand dollars or more per week. But

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Speaker 1: there are sticky situations in between. There the issue of overtime.

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Speaker 1: When a family goes on vacation, does the nanny go too?

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Speaker 1: If so, is she working more hours than she would

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Speaker 1: have worked if the parents have been home with the children.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons that the Domestic Workers

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Speaker 1: United Group has been really pushing for nanny's to be

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Speaker 1: recognized as professionals. You know, we keep them as sort of,

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Speaker 1: you know, someone we can hire and let go at will,

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Speaker 1: and these nannies want rights, and so in September of

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Speaker 1: this year, the State of New York past legislation for

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Speaker 1: these domestic workers that entitles them to vacation days, uh,

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Speaker 1: sick days, appropriate notice of termination. Because these relationships have

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Speaker 1: been so loosey goosey that I think that's part of

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Speaker 1: the reason why organizations like the International Nanny Association have

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Speaker 1: sprung up. Among others, these organizations are trying to teach

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Speaker 1: mothers who, you know, I've never hired a nanny before,

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Speaker 1: how to deal with this new employee. Right, And just

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Speaker 1: for a little bit of historical context as to why

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Speaker 1: they have to in two thousand and ten push for

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Speaker 1: things like mandated minimum wages, because throughout history, politicians have

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Speaker 1: strategically excluded domestic workers, including nanny's, from federal and state

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Speaker 1: labor laws. Um For instance, when President Roosevelt was trying

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Speaker 1: to push through federal minimum wage in nine seven, in

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Speaker 1: order to win the support of Southern Democrats in Congress,

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Speaker 1: he announced that the bill would not apply to domestic

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Speaker 1: help and that was back in thirty seven, and we

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Speaker 1: still have not uh we we still haven't corrected that

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Speaker 1: at all. So we're having to go now on a

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Speaker 1: state by state basis, beginning with New York. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I was reading an interview with one of the women

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Speaker 1: who's been associated with pushing through this legislation, and she

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Speaker 1: was asked why this has taken so long, and she

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Speaker 1: made a really interesting point that raising children, cleaning a

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Speaker 1: home is thought of as women's work, and historically women

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Speaker 1: wise mothers have done that unpaid, and so the fact

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Speaker 1: that now we can hire someone to do it for

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Speaker 1: us causes a lot of you know, I think that

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Speaker 1: people still don't value it the way that they should,

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Speaker 1: which is why I think that the salaries between different

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Speaker 1: nanny's arry And I also think that's why women feel

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Speaker 1: so guilty about hiring nanny's, because they have been told historically,

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Speaker 1: this is supposed to be your job. You're the one

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Speaker 1: who's supposed to wash your child's clothes and make your

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Speaker 1: child's meals, and how dare you bring in someone else

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Speaker 1: to do it for you. And so these women who

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Speaker 1: come in, these nanni's who come in for families and

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Speaker 1: really help these women out and pursuing their career goals

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Speaker 1: and and just maintaining a level of sanity, really become,

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Speaker 1: you know, this guilty secret because we women are trained

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Speaker 1: to think we should be able to do it all.

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Speaker 1: And then one thing that you might not think about,

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Speaker 1: in terms of say, immigrants who are coming in and

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Speaker 1: taking jobs as nanny's there in these upper middle class homes,

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Speaker 1: earning as much money as they can caring for other

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Speaker 1: people's children so they can support their children at home

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Speaker 1: in another country. And there was one woman who was

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Speaker 1: interviewed in Salona Believe. She was an executive editor at

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Speaker 1: Marie Claire and she ended up writing a book about

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Speaker 1: nanny and she had sort of a memoir type of

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Speaker 1: she was talking about how among these these New York women,

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Speaker 1: these wealthy New York women who all had nanny's, there

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Speaker 1: was even a racial hierarchy that would come out where

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Speaker 1: creme nanny's and then it goes down from there and

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Speaker 1: it's incredibly racist, absolutely, And I think these are more

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Speaker 1: pertinent issues than things like was your nanny gonna steal

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Speaker 1: your husband? You know? Well, you know, and I was

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Speaker 1: reading another article that said that women want to be

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Speaker 1: able to justify this decision to hire a nanny, and

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Speaker 1: so they'll they will seize upon someone who might speak

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Speaker 1: a different language, and they'll justify having a nanny as, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the kid can learn a different language while

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Speaker 1: he or she is young. And it was you know,

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Speaker 1: women already feel so guilty about bringing this help in,

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Speaker 1: and then they feel guilty, like you said, of all

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Speaker 1: these class and race issues that you know, sometimes they

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Speaker 1: will just cling to the fact that they're exposing their

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Speaker 1: child to a different culture. But what happens, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you do actually for work and you're leaving your

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Speaker 1: kid there with the nanny. So many essays we came

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Speaker 1: across of women who felt so jealous of their nanny

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Speaker 1: because they felt that a the nanny got to spend

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Speaker 1: all day with their kids and be their kid might

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Speaker 1: end up liking the nanny more than them the mother. Now,

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Speaker 1: some parents who are nervous about leaving their children with

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Speaker 1: nanny's or if they just sense that something is a

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Speaker 1: little bit off, if their children are really young and

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Speaker 1: might not be able to communicate exactly how well or

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Speaker 1: how poorly nanny is doing, they will leave behind the

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Speaker 1: nanny cam the nanny cam and this is a hotly

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Speaker 1: obviously debated topic within the nanni community. And I think

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Speaker 1: that this is when where you know, the stories end

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Speaker 1: up on the news. I mean, how often have you

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Speaker 1: seen a story on the news where the nanny was

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Speaker 1: viciously abusing the child nanny caam. I mean, obviously it's

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Speaker 1: the bad stories they're going to make the headlines. And

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Speaker 1: I think that spells trouble for all those names who

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Speaker 1: are actually doing their job. And one article we found

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Speaker 1: on them said that people who choose to go the

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Speaker 1: nanny camera really already know something's wrong with the nanny,

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Speaker 1: and it would have been better if they could have

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Speaker 1: just talked with the nanny. But some nanny's like the

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Speaker 1: most insurance. You know. There was this one nanny and

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Speaker 1: she was taking care of some brats that sounded like

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Speaker 1: who they were fighting, and one kid got hurt and

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Speaker 1: the kid was like, we're going to tell our mom

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Speaker 1: you did this, but you know, the nanny she had

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Speaker 1: the nanny camp backrup. But what all those people were saying,

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Speaker 1: by and large was if you're gonna have one, tell

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Speaker 1: your nanny. But that just gets this larger issue of

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Speaker 1: how to communicate with the nanny was someone that you

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Speaker 1: kind of want to be part of your family, but

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Speaker 1: who you also have to view as an employee exactly.

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Speaker 1: And that's why the International Nanny Association and certain parent

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Speaker 1: coach agencies are set up to really teach parents the

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Speaker 1: importance of outlining exactly what the nanny's roles and responsibilities are.

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Speaker 1: Because some nan might just need to pick up the

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Speaker 1: kids from school, take him home, make him a snack,

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Speaker 1: do the laundry, and call it a day. Other nanny's

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Speaker 1: might have to do far more. Maybe the nanny needs

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Speaker 1: to walk the dog, who knows and sometimes the mothers

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Speaker 1: may not even know until they have the nanny, like

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Speaker 1: what they need from the nanny or what even their

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Speaker 1: parenting philosophy is, and so they may kind of give

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Speaker 1: the nanny, you know, free rain to get started, and

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Speaker 1: it's only a little bit afterwards that they're like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I really don't like the way she disciplines. I really

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Speaker 1: don't like the way she folds the laundry. Because that

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Speaker 1: was a problem that one woman was having with her nanny,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's got to be this ongoing evaluation of

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Speaker 1: roles and responsibilities. It's you know, we've talked to one

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Speaker 1: of our very first podcast Kristen, was about how women

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Speaker 1: don't like to negotiate, and I think having a nanny,

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Speaker 1: one way to ease that gilt is to see it

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Speaker 1: as a constant negotiation. And as long as you and

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Speaker 1: the nanny both expect that it doesn't have to be

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Speaker 1: in this situation that's fraught with tension about you know,

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Speaker 1: you're ordering this woman around and you hope she doesn't

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Speaker 1: take it out on your kids because she gets offended

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Speaker 1: at some and you say, as long as both parties

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Speaker 1: can go into with this hope of open communication, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like it can be a really enriching experience for

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Speaker 1: both mother, father and the children. Absolutely, because one thing

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Speaker 1: that did not come up and all this research who

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Speaker 1: were doing, was how having a nanny somehow harms your

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Speaker 1: child development. No, not at all. Nanny's. Nanny's are there

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Speaker 1: and they can be a godsend for a family and

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Speaker 1: especially for allowing women to get into the workplace and

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Speaker 1: pursue their careers and maintain families. Nanny can be a

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Speaker 1: way to have it all if you, if you allow

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Speaker 1: it to be. But you know the thing is, I

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Speaker 1: didn't have a nanny, I don't employ nanny now. So

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Speaker 1: we want to hear from you guys out there. I

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Speaker 1: bet we have lots of listeners who are nanny's themselves,

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Speaker 1: some who employ nanny's, and we want to know what

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Speaker 1: has made or broken a relationship between you and your

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Speaker 1: employer slash employee. The address is mom Stuff at how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Nanny anecdotes welcome, Yes, and please share.

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Speaker 1: Also anecdotes on our Facebook page. Well, I have one

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Speaker 1: here from Justin and it's in response to our podcast

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Speaker 1: on chivalry. He says, I just wanted to throw in

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Speaker 1: my two cents about this chivalry topic. I'm from the

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Speaker 1: South as well, so I'm familiar with the courtesy that

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. I'm also a gay man, so I

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Speaker 1: felt like I can look at this objectively. From my

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Speaker 1: experience women, most women do want in both ways. They

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Speaker 1: absolutely want to be equal and decision making, work, pay

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Speaker 1: and everything, but the man had better open the door

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Speaker 1: and pay for dinner. Personally, I think it all comes

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Speaker 1: down to supply and demand. Men do things that women

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Speaker 1: want because the men want something the women have, and

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Speaker 1: it's not the kind words or a home cooked meal. Personally,

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Speaker 1: it seems to me that if a woman wants to

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Speaker 1: be equal, you have to take gender out of all

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Speaker 1: decisions where it's possible to do. So. Let's not just

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Speaker 1: be nice to women, Let's be nice to everyone. Whoever

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Speaker 1: gets to the restaurant door opens it first, and you

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Speaker 1: either split the check or whoever makes the date pays.

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Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, I hate being asked to

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Speaker 1: squish bugs. They're gross. It's more gross when they're squished,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want to do it anymore than a

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Speaker 1: woman does. It seems forced equality always seems to push

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Speaker 1: the pendulum back the other way. I know there's not

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Speaker 1: usually just black and white, but in this case, I say,

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Speaker 1: let's just do it. Think you got a great perspective

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Speaker 1: justin Thanks so much for sharing it. So if you

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Speaker 1: have any thoughts you'd like to send our way. Our

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Speaker 1: email addresses mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can also head over to our Facebook page and

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Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at Mom's Stuff Podcasts. And finally,

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Speaker 1: you can read our blog It's Stuff I'm Never Told

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Speaker 1: You and It's how stuff Works dot com for more

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Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Does it how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com So learn more about the podcast

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Speaker 1: clog on the podcast icon in the upper right corner

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Speaker 1: of our homepage. The How Stuff Works iPhone up has arrived.

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Speaker 1: Down with it today on iTunes. Yeah, brought to you

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Speaker 1: by the reinvented two thousand and twelve Camry. It's ready,

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