Speaker 1: She was inside that house. She could tell you what
Speaker 1: it was like. I mean, she told everybody what it
Speaker 1: was like to live with the Waggers. I remember, and
Speaker 1: they were stressed. Decisions were typically made as a group.
Speaker 1: I was making friends to leave the house immediately from us. Friend, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is the Pikes and Massacre returned to Pike County
Speaker 1: season four, episode seventeen, The Elizabeth Journals m Courtney Armstrong,
Speaker 1: a television producer at Katy Studios, with Stephanie Lydecker and
Speaker 1: Jeff Shane. As always, it's important to note that George
Speaker 1: Wagner has pleaded not guilty to all charges. His father,
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose child is upcoming, has also pleaded not
Speaker 1: guilty to all charges. Hours of testimony by investigators and
Speaker 1: relatives have painted a dark picture of the Wagner family
Speaker 1: and the contentious custody battle between Jake Wagner and Anna
Speaker 1: Rodin over their daughter. Today, one of the most mysterious
Speaker 1: and least known figures involved in the case takes the
Speaker 1: stand Elizabeth Armor, Jake Wagner's ex wife, who we met
Speaker 1: in Alaska. We've reached out to her before, but had
Speaker 1: never spoken directly with her. We've only heard from Elizabeth
Speaker 1: on the occasion she posted to social media. Like Tabitha Clayton,
Speaker 1: George Wagner's ex wife, Elizabeth is one of the few
Speaker 1: people uniquely positioned to discuss the dynamics of the close
Speaker 1: knit Wagner family. The murder trial of George Wagner the
Speaker 1: fourth continued in Pike County today with new testimony from
Speaker 1: the ex wife of Jake Wagner. It was one of
Speaker 1: the most anticipated moments of George Wagner's trial. When Elizabeth
Speaker 1: armor entered the courtroom, George Wagner's eyes followed her. He
Speaker 1: glared as she walked across the room and took her
Speaker 1: seat to be sworn in. Sorry, nervous, I've said this before.
Speaker 1: We give him a lot of that particular chair. So
Speaker 1: we'll just speak this so and if I say anything
Speaker 1: that you don't look to that understand, or is a
Speaker 1: confusing question, just let me know that. Okay, can you
Speaker 1: please sea dream and started. Last name. My name is E.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Armor. My last name is A R. M. E. R.
Speaker 1: The twenty nine year old spoke softly as she described
Speaker 1: growing up in a religiously conservative community in eastern Tennessee
Speaker 1: and what led to her move to Alaska. I grew
Speaker 1: up in a Machelevelite community for most of my teen years,
Speaker 1: and because of that, I did not have a high
Speaker 1: school education, since they would go to eighth grade. And
Speaker 1: so friends of mine in from the same room that
Speaker 1: I lived on that I had kind of grown up
Speaker 1: with a little bit. We're working with the church there
Speaker 1: in Alaska that had like a parish school, and so
Speaker 1: they had offered to help me get my high school
Speaker 1: education because I was interested in pursuing a more standard
Speaker 1: kind of lifestyle. Even though Elizabeth wanted a more traditional life,
Speaker 1: she still stayed close to her conservative religious roots and
Speaker 1: attended a fundamentalist Baptist church in Alaska where she met
Speaker 1: the Wagner's how did you come to start attending that church?
Speaker 1: So the particular church was the church that my friends
Speaker 1: from Tennessee were attending, and that at the church which
Speaker 1: had the school as part of it, and the teachers
Speaker 1: at that school were going to give me classts after
Speaker 1: school to help me get up to see this gd
Speaker 1: and so I was going or just you know, because
Speaker 1: my friends are okay, were very involved in the church.
Speaker 1: Above the watch gave a MDDU. I worked in the
Speaker 1: nurseries sometimes, and I say with the choir because I
Speaker 1: loved to sing um. I hoped one of the teachers
Speaker 1: with a like a Christmas program the church for them. Okay,
Speaker 1: while you were there in attending Matt Church, did you
Speaker 1: come to learn or know some individuals known as the family?
Speaker 1: I did. The Wagner family moved from Ohio to Alaska
Speaker 1: in the summer of twenty seventeen, a little more than
Speaker 1: a year after the murders. Elizabeth met them through the
Speaker 1: church shortly after they arrived. And you tell us what
Speaker 1: would your first encounter with one more? My first memory
Speaker 1: of the Latners was Drake and Angela. People badly, but
Speaker 1: I just remember Jake and Angela and the children walking
Speaker 1: into church, and I remember thinking they were acohol with
Speaker 1: the child. I think you have any interactions with them
Speaker 1: at that time or Rebecca's an observation. It's just an observation, okay.
Speaker 1: And then with their another time where you had another
Speaker 1: awareness of that they're one of their one or more
Speaker 1: of them. So my next memory of the one there's
Speaker 1: one so that I had come out of the nursery
Speaker 1: for taking care of the children, and I looked down
Speaker 1: the hallway and looked like Jake was at the other
Speaker 1: end in the hallway kind of noticing me. And then
Speaker 1: remember like feeling nervous. But I didn't really have experience
Speaker 1: with any kind of dating or anything like that, so
Speaker 1: I thought made him was attracted to him because I was.
Speaker 1: It was just an intense failing. Jake later found her
Speaker 1: on Facebook and asked Elizabeth out. Despite her interest in Jake,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth told him she wasn't comfortable going out with someone
Speaker 1: she didn't know. So what happened next? So he made
Speaker 1: a point of introducing himself to me personally next time
Speaker 1: when he was at church and wanted to jab me
Speaker 1: in the gym. Soon after Jake and Elizabeth began dating.
Speaker 1: Their life as a couple revolved around the church and
Speaker 1: the small community they lived in. Sometimes we would go
Speaker 1: out and get meals, just her local. I wasna with
Speaker 1: bastood restaurants. I remember getting ice cream him thinking it
Speaker 1: for walks, and you would sometimes just go for a dive. Okay,
Speaker 1: was there a point where you learned that there were
Speaker 1: some negative information? We are in Jay in the same way. Yes,
Speaker 1: so sure that they're so Lemer started coming to the church.
Speaker 1: The pastor of the church basically in front of the
Speaker 1: church and Um saying that he had known them in
Speaker 1: Ohio and that there was some kind of news story
Speaker 1: out about UM and that they had been bothered by
Speaker 1: the news, and that because they've been bothered by the news,
Speaker 1: they moved to Ohio to Alaska and that we should
Speaker 1: not really pay attention to the news about them and
Speaker 1: just welcome them into the community. And did you also
Speaker 1: asked for you. Jake offered an explanation of it as well.
Speaker 1: He did, and what did he back? He said, basically
Speaker 1: what the pastor had that his family had been had
Speaker 1: god by the news media, that they had there was
Speaker 1: some scandal where he grew up, that was I think
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend had been murdered and that people were putting
Speaker 1: him under suspicion because he had dated her, and that
Speaker 1: that was one it was the news story. Act. Okay, again,
Speaker 1: did you did you more exact those explanations from the
Speaker 1: pastor and from Jake? I did because the family I
Speaker 1: was loving with was ex law enforcement and so they
Speaker 1: talked with them about it and they said that basically,
Speaker 1: if there had been any truth to these stories, they
Speaker 1: would have already been rested since it had been two
Speaker 1: years time. As Jake and Elizabeth's relationship grew more serious,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth meant more of his family. She also witnessed firsthand
Speaker 1: the family dynamics. So when they met them, basically what
Speaker 1: I remember from going to their house was that everybody
Speaker 1: was yelling. That was my impression that everybody was yelling,
Speaker 1: and he said there was, Yeah, tell me about that. Um, well,
Speaker 1: just seem like everybody was really angry and stressed and
Speaker 1: that they were all shouting. I hadn't really heard people
Speaker 1: shout that lovely in my life. And I remember Jake
Speaker 1: saying that they were stressed and that you know, everybody
Speaker 1: was stressed. Okay, and Katy tell us, Um, was there
Speaker 1: a point were who were relationship got serious? Jake, nine
Speaker 1: months after I met him, he asked me to marry him. Initially,
Speaker 1: Jake promised Elizabeth a long engagement so they could continue
Speaker 1: to get to know each other, but according to Elizabeth,
Speaker 1: he kept changing his timeline and pressured her to marry quickly.
Speaker 1: So Jake go changing the nine wine so like. Initially
Speaker 1: he said it would be engaged for two years, and
Speaker 1: then as time went on, he kept giving reasons why, Ah, well,
Speaker 1: we have to move the data all we have to
Speaker 1: move the data up. And he just kept doing that
Speaker 1: over and over and over and over. And you know,
Speaker 1: here I am in the middle of making wedding plans
Speaker 1: and then suddenly I have to move, and I'm busy
Speaker 1: and trying to manage everything. And he just kept moving
Speaker 1: the day blah blaf until literally it was doctor and
Speaker 1: ultimately what was the reason as to why it happy?
Speaker 1: That time he said that he was moving and knowing
Speaker 1: basically break it off or coming them. Jake told Elizabeth
Speaker 1: his entire family planned on moving to a farm in
Speaker 1: Missouri to raise camels and pigs, and that they would
Speaker 1: have to get married quickly, which they did. He tell us,
Speaker 1: what happened up on your way night? Since I grew
Speaker 1: up Polish, basically I wasn't actually Amish. What I grew
Speaker 1: up in that kind of lifestyle, that community, very so
Speaker 1: their lifestyle. I had to David anybody um and didn't
Speaker 1: have any experience with men, and so I had requested
Speaker 1: in no in certain terms, that we not consummate marriage
Speaker 1: on that night, which Jake had agreed to, but they
Speaker 1: not honor after forcing Elizabeth to have sex on their
Speaker 1: wedding night. Elizabeth says Jake demanded access to all of
Speaker 1: her personal information. And would you say he asked for
Speaker 1: your personal information? What kind of personal information are you
Speaker 1: talking about? I think account access numbers, my social Security
Speaker 1: card numbers, my phone pass code, and at the same time,
Speaker 1: you also, like saint my phone with his so that
Speaker 1: you could see all of my cons and texts. She
Speaker 1: also had to sign agreements prior or any time. Yes,
Speaker 1: I remember in jalone them asking me to sign a
Speaker 1: paper that basically my understanding was that it was to
Speaker 1: keep me from trying to get custody of any event
Speaker 1: of the divorce and what any event of lone divorce? Okay,
Speaker 1: and you did actually sign, correct, I did. But Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner's desire to control his new wife didn't stop there
Speaker 1: on your wedding night. Did he also discuss with you
Speaker 1: that you should not have contact with your feeling? He did,
Speaker 1: and tell me about that. So two of my brothers
Speaker 1: um in their early childhood and sexually experimented with me,
Speaker 1: and it was quite young. My family didn't have um
Speaker 1: like sex education. So they were both of the age
Speaker 1: of ten, and so the first one had kind of
Speaker 1: approached me inappropriately when I was three or four years old,
Speaker 1: and then not a lot of completely different occasions when
Speaker 1: I was seven years old, And so because of that,
Speaker 1: Jake asked me to cut contact with my family on
Speaker 1: my wedding night, your entire family, or I remember it
Speaker 1: as my entire family. The day after the wedding, all
Speaker 1: of the Wagners accept its newest member, Elizabeth, left by
Speaker 1: car from Missouri. A week later after sorting out her passport.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth joined the entire family Jake, George, Angela, Billy, and
Speaker 1: the children living in one small, cramed hotel room. Elizabeth
Speaker 1: was horrified at the living situation and tried to leave,
Speaker 1: but when she left the overcrowded hotel room to call
Speaker 1: her brother for help, Jake found her and brought her back.
Speaker 1: So when I got back to the hotel room, everybody
Speaker 1: was agitated. Angela, George, Jake that kind of confronted me
Speaker 1: about having left the room by myself, and I said
Speaker 1: that it wasn't really safe for me to leave the
Speaker 1: room by myself because news reporters might be, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to bother me, or the need to talk
Speaker 1: to every more something like that than I needed to
Speaker 1: only room with someone with me. The Wagner's time in
Speaker 1: Missouri was short. Even though Jake promised Elizabeth they would
Speaker 1: never move back to Ohio because of the news coverage
Speaker 1: and the police investigation. The family returned a few days
Speaker 1: after failing to find a farm in Missouri. I was
Speaker 1: unhappy about it because Jake had basically promised me we
Speaker 1: were never going back to Ohio because of the news story.
Speaker 1: But after being in a hotel for I thought anything
Speaker 1: might be better. Okay. Life in Ohio was just as
Speaker 1: cramped and chaotic as ever, with the entire Wagner family
Speaker 1: living under one roof. Tensions were always near a boiling point.
Speaker 1: Can you describe to as the family dynamics when you
Speaker 1: were learning there that between Jacob, George and Angela, I'm
Speaker 1: probably they need to bat with each other. How are
Speaker 1: decisions made all that? Okay? So usually interactions were strength
Speaker 1: as far as I remember, where they were usually highly
Speaker 1: stress and emotional angry. Um Again, the shadow continued. The
Speaker 1: decisions were typically made as a group, so they would
Speaker 1: discuss what they were going to do, commune decision, and
Speaker 1: then that so anybody would do they make improof decisions.
Speaker 1: Though she was now a member of the Wagner family,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth was often asked to leave the room. Angela and
Speaker 1: George Wagner particularly did not trust her. Can you tell
Speaker 1: us about those discussions weirding with her? How did occur?
Speaker 1: Usually they would happen in the kitchen. Um. I wasn't
Speaker 1: usually asked to join them. I just remember that I
Speaker 1: would hear people discussing things in the kitchen, and because
Speaker 1: it was so loud to hear people talking and all
Speaker 1: about what they're going to do so their plans, or
Speaker 1: how they were going to answer certain questions when people
Speaker 1: ask them, how do we done these certain finances? All
Speaker 1: that in the kitchen. So those were the general ties
Speaker 1: you would hear the assess they would talking about finances,
Speaker 1: how they would answer media questions or I think of that,
Speaker 1: how they were mentioning BCLI questions or police questions about
Speaker 1: the children or about their clothes and shoes. Are angries
Speaker 1: off the children again? Okay, here's Stephanie and Jeff. She
Speaker 1: makes mention of growing up kind of amish like in
Speaker 1: her words, and I assume that means that she was
Speaker 1: a bit insulated and that she was maybe raised in
Speaker 1: a bit of a bubble, and on the one hand,
Speaker 1: that would make her a prime target for a family
Speaker 1: of predators because she's potentially naive and unaware of the
Speaker 1: outside world. And on the other side of that, we've
Speaker 1: also heard rumors that some of the Wagners were very
Speaker 1: paranoid that she was working for law enforcement from day
Speaker 1: one and they just didn't trust her. So the fact
Speaker 1: that she's opted in to be recorded and have video
Speaker 1: to tell her story is extremely big and very brave. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we can't know what she's feeling, but to face George
Speaker 1: Wagner in court and to put her face and likeness
Speaker 1: out there, I think says a lot about where she is.
Speaker 1: It's also interesting Steph. Obviously we don't know what George
Speaker 1: Wagner was feeling, but we do know that he rarely
Speaker 1: looks up or shows any sort of emotion, and he
Speaker 1: definitely looked up at Elizabeth and almost looked like he
Speaker 1: was glaring, and he then tracked her as she walked
Speaker 1: into the courtroom. So if we're trying to surmise what
Speaker 1: he might be feeling, he definitely has some strong feelings
Speaker 1: about the fact that she's testified. One discussion stuck out.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth remembered the Wagners talking about creating a bulletproof bulldozer
Speaker 1: to knock down prison walls if any of the Wagners
Speaker 1: landed in jail, and she remembered them talking about key
Speaker 1: aspects of the investigation, tell us what discussion did you
Speaker 1: hear about? And mostly remembered them talking about tennis shoes
Speaker 1: and saying something about, like some of tennis shoes from Walmart,
Speaker 1: but that were ridiculous because they wore boots, and they
Speaker 1: kind of like impressed that only multiple times. Do you
Speaker 1: think we even buying tensions and boots because we were
Speaker 1: boots and they rentioned it multiple times. Going back to
Speaker 1: your living with the Waers, didn't you whatever had conversations
Speaker 1: with you about the sexual relations you were having with
Speaker 1: Jake And yes, okay, I can you remember what she
Speaker 1: what specifica she discussed to you. So I remember her
Speaker 1: asking if Jake and I were trying to have child
Speaker 1: and telling me that it wasn't a good time for
Speaker 1: to have your child. And I remember her asking if
Speaker 1: Jakee and I had sexual relations with in the room,
Speaker 1: and I remember her suggesting that that was inappropriate. And
Speaker 1: I remember Jake and I having that discussion, and I
Speaker 1: remember telling them that I did not think it was
Speaker 1: appropriate and that he did not listen. So you basically
Speaker 1: read that I was great. Yes, can you expect that
Speaker 1: to Jake? Yes? Angela ever a huge of things free already,
Speaker 1: I went, Yes, if I remember it was food poisoning.
Speaker 1: She accused me of telling intentionally food poisoned the children.
Speaker 1: And was there a time when she accused Yes, there
Speaker 1: was a time when it was brought to my attention
Speaker 1: my Jake that she said that I had inappropriately touched
Speaker 1: and can you tell us what happens as a result
Speaker 1: of that. So when Jake came to me and told
Speaker 1: me that his mom but that I had touched inappropriately,
Speaker 1: I was also informed that because of that aliation, George
Speaker 1: wasn't comfortable with my living in the house, and then
Speaker 1: I needed to go somewhere else. Ian, can you tell
Speaker 1: us did you ever have a conversation with both Jakie
Speaker 1: and Angela about these specific alliations? Yes? Can you tell
Speaker 1: us what happened during that conversation or what we said.
Speaker 1: Elizabeth described this heated conversation as the final showdown between
Speaker 1: her and the Wagner family and the moment she knew
Speaker 1: she had to get away from them as soon as possible.
Speaker 1: Jake said that he didn't believe I had done it,
Speaker 1: but that you know, I need to explain myself because
Speaker 1: Angela believed that inappropriately. She was acting very high mighty
Speaker 1: so this week, and I was very shocked, and I
Speaker 1: remember Jake questioning you, very starred me, like did you
Speaker 1: do this? And he laid it out very clearly to
Speaker 1: me that if I had done it, that that the
Speaker 1: right thing to do would be to create Lucille the
Speaker 1: baseball bat from the Walking Dead and string me up
Speaker 1: in the barn, beat me to death with the baseball bat,
Speaker 1: both those the barn, let it down and hunt down
Speaker 1: and kill my family. And then he didn't do it.
Speaker 1: His mom would do it. If his mom didn't do it,
Speaker 1: his dad would do it, or George would do it,
Speaker 1: or Billy or you know. He just kept saying, any
Speaker 1: of them would be willing to do this because it
Speaker 1: being the ruddy Elizabeth says she went to her room,
Speaker 1: packed her bag and called a friend for help. I
Speaker 1: was making plans to leave the house immediately. Us friend, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to take a break. We'll be back in
Speaker 1: a moment, Elizabeth Armor was determined to flee Jake and
Speaker 1: the rest of the Wagners. Elizabeth began pushing back against
Speaker 1: the Wagner's rules, taking walks to the library and the
Speaker 1: local cemetery. She also kept a diary and one screen.
Speaker 1: One of my journal entries, all right, go ahead, space
Speaker 1: in your Granddaddy. The people I live with are all right,
Speaker 1: I guess. They're constantly yelling and hitting, and not one
Speaker 1: of them understands the concept or need for privacy. Even
Speaker 1: the most private of all human doings are open for
Speaker 1: discussion and comment. In this family. It grates on my nerves. Also,
Speaker 1: nobody seems to understand basic ownership. Okay, And he tells us,
Speaker 1: is that one of the journal entries written that was
Speaker 1: discovered by other people living in the home. Yes, and
Speaker 1: were you seeing about them in that journal? Country, I
Speaker 1: mean self speaking about George, Jake Angela, George Chicken Angela, Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: The prosecution then Elizabeth to read another entry about the
Speaker 1: Wagner family. Dear Granddaddy, I try so hard not to
Speaker 1: hate people. Proof of this is that out of my
Speaker 1: entire crazy, big family, there are only two people I
Speaker 1: truly hate. But now Granddaddy, there are free Daniel, Isaac,
Speaker 1: and Angela. I'm going to call her miss Angela because
Speaker 1: of the name of it's her anyways. Miss Angela is
Speaker 1: horrible for all these reasons. One she married unwisely and
Speaker 1: believes all marriages destined to end like hers. Two she
Speaker 1: has her fingers and my husband's pocketbook and makes exorbitant
Speaker 1: demands on his salary, holding her own quote unquote, and
Speaker 1: help over his head like a glove to emphasize her demands.
Speaker 1: Three she has more say over my life right now
Speaker 1: than I do because she controls my husband through his child.
Speaker 1: Four she verbally abuses and yells insinuations at my husband,
Speaker 1: which he doesn't understand what I do. Five she dislikes
Speaker 1: and ridicules books were how to read less that that says.
Speaker 1: Six because she is a manipulative liar, she is teaching
Speaker 1: our daughters to manipulate and lie. Seven My husband would
Speaker 1: listen to her far rather than to me, because she
Speaker 1: has raised his daughter thus far. Eight she believes me
Speaker 1: to be a replica of Tabby and treats me as such.
Speaker 1: She has insinuated several arms that she expects me to
Speaker 1: poison her Nine. She has repeatedly declared that she will
Speaker 1: see to it that will always prefer her to be
Speaker 1: with her and never accept me as her mama. Ken.
Speaker 1: She has threatened my husband with custody battles. Eleven. The
Speaker 1: most horrible thing is I have her totally within my power.
Speaker 1: All I would have to do would be to tell
Speaker 1: people she did it to get away from her abused mother,
Speaker 1: and I would get her the lifetime sentence like that.
Speaker 1: The only thing is much as I hate the woman Scots,
Speaker 1: it would not be true. Twelve. She loves and encourages
Speaker 1: boys Obeski. Thirteen. She treats the children's second work first
Speaker 1: in kids second, continuing the same donory entry to me
Speaker 1: to read as fourteen. She keeps tabs on me, always
Speaker 1: watching and listening to see where I am. Fifteen and
Speaker 1: having to live in her house under her direct control
Speaker 1: and condescension plan to crush her. Want to treat her
Speaker 1: only commonly and respectfully to trying to become her friend.
Speaker 1: She's like Kwanda, so she really only respects working. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: my handring is terrible working. Three, be nice because I'm
Speaker 1: bigger than her, or once I have her trust in friendship,
Speaker 1: slam the relationship door and shut in her face. She
Speaker 1: lines blue animals, gardening, money, money, money, her kids, grandkids, working,
Speaker 1: cooking fingers, and hospitality. She sent him about her weight
Speaker 1: and appearance. She either was physically abused of her else
Speaker 1: mistreated and her childhood. Basically all bosses want agins. Elizabeth
Speaker 1: tried to hide her diary from the Wagners, but they
Speaker 1: later found it and confronted her. What they asked you
Speaker 1: to do to these items? Would say the barge with them.
Speaker 1: I think it was Angela Jake, and I feel like
Speaker 1: George was near life, possibly read up as well by
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly that some of those things for
Speaker 1: me and right because the media or the police or
Speaker 1: somebody might get a hold of what I had wrote.
Speaker 1: And so they asked if I would burn the general
Speaker 1: and flush it down the toilet, it's not too it
Speaker 1: than I did. The Wagner's demand for control over Elizabeth
Speaker 1: led to more threats against her life, indicating it on
Speaker 1: the way Jake indicated should cut out contact with the
Speaker 1: same way, um but forever a time where he told
Speaker 1: you what would happen if one of them showed up
Speaker 1: at your house? Yes, and what did he say? He
Speaker 1: said that he would kill them. Determined to leave, Elizabeth
Speaker 1: began making arrangements with her father to escape. On July
Speaker 1: six of twenty eighteen, less than four months after Mary
Speaker 1: and Jake, Elizabeth fled the Wagner's script, can you tell
Speaker 1: us what happened on the day to do that? We
Speaker 1: all have the parking lot. I walked into the Walmart,
Speaker 1: change my girls halfway through the Walmart one minute, changing
Speaker 1: station so that I wouldn't hold the same and left
Speaker 1: out the back through the entire section. Because I was
Speaker 1: pretty they were following me. I was concerned and go
Speaker 1: into a rented car, picked the same corn out of
Speaker 1: my phone because I was concerned I was being tracked.
Speaker 1: My father was there in the car and we drove
Speaker 1: them a bunch of sun roads and hit in the
Speaker 1: car for a period of time, and then when we
Speaker 1: knew we weren't being followed, we drove to a restaurant
Speaker 1: where I swached vehicles. My friend depicted me off and
Speaker 1: to clean the rest of the way to Virginia. Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Armor fled the Wagners and initiated a divorce. George Wagner's
Speaker 1: defense team Cross examined her and questioned Elizabeth about her
Speaker 1: relationship with George and how serious a person he was
Speaker 1: who didn't really know him at all in him last
Speaker 1: that church that you saw, Yeah, and did you add
Speaker 1: long conversations with him at the church. Yeah, So you
Speaker 1: met him at the church once or twice, were introduced
Speaker 1: him after Jake, after Jake had proposed to you, and
Speaker 1: then you helped. That's kind of the extent of your
Speaker 1: kindtact with George when you were in a last that's fair, Harry. Okay.
Speaker 1: Soon after escaping to Virginia, Elizabeth testified she was contacted
Speaker 1: by BCI agents and asked note only about Angela and Jake,
Speaker 1: but also George. During cross examination, the defense question Armor
Speaker 1: about her interviews with BCI agents after she left the family,
Speaker 1: asking her whether she thought those threats were real during
Speaker 1: that interview, right during the interview in Virginia, Virginia. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I think that one of the things about door
Speaker 1: life is that right. Yes. As Elizabeth answers from across
Speaker 1: the courtroom, George Wagner has seen smiling, he seems to
Speaker 1: enjoy being described this way. Okay, yes, perhaps, yes, all right,
Speaker 1: Topics that you've disapproved them. He didn't approve thee right.
Speaker 1: They were quite prude, very rush right, you want to
Speaker 1: do things about jewels. But then not only would he
Speaker 1: tell you the jokes or Steve jokes, um, not only
Speaker 1: would he say these jokes, but he said other things.
Speaker 1: And you came to an opinion that you've thought he
Speaker 1: was kind of Look, blowhard is that kind of saying?
Speaker 1: And we have to look up the definition of blowhard?
Speaker 1: But that sounds reasonable, Okay. He would say things he
Speaker 1: really didn't. That person had block off Steve. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if he meant them or not. I don't want
Speaker 1: to infer his meeting. And when you talked to the
Speaker 1: officers in Virginia, they asked me, can you tell us
Speaker 1: about George? I think he told him, isn't that your
Speaker 1: kind of person? He seems like a sweet kind of guy,
Speaker 1: but not the kind of person I would feel safe
Speaker 1: because he's because of this the best interest in hors
Speaker 1: and not discriminate choices in that area. That would be
Speaker 1: my reason for that feeling comfortable with definitely one of
Speaker 1: my reasons. Here's Jeff speaking with forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1: What do you make of George kind of smiling. He
Speaker 1: shows so little emotion, and he sort of lights up
Speaker 1: when he's just talking about his sexist jokes and calling
Speaker 1: woman horse and stuff. Is that I mean that must
Speaker 1: be that's a pretty bad look. Yeah, it is, particularly
Speaker 1: when you're sitting there and you know you've got a
Speaker 1: panel of twelve people that are trying to sub what's
Speaker 1: going to happen with the rest of your life. You know,
Speaker 1: you're in a five for your life. Literally. It's powerful
Speaker 1: in the sense that you see George's behavior exhibited before them.
Speaker 1: So if it wasn't accented before, then is dam will
Speaker 1: accented after that? When he smirks about this, maybe giggles
Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, and you know in a
Speaker 1: very you know, the same way that some middle school child.
Speaker 1: It's like he has no self awareness at that point.
Speaker 1: He has no self awareness of what he's up. We're
Speaker 1: going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 1: George Wagner's defense attorney John Parker continued to press Elizabeth
Speaker 1: about whether or not she thought George was someone she
Speaker 1: took serious or someone who simply ran his mouth about
Speaker 1: one interviewing you in Virginia, so that had been drive
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen actually ask you about George particular. They asked you,
Speaker 1: when George specifically would talk about fuck he would do?
Speaker 1: What would he say that he was going to do
Speaker 1: to those people if he got his hands on them?
Speaker 1: I believe your response laws he would say things like
Speaker 1: I had my way, we wouldn't be hiding out like this,
Speaker 1: we would be stormy my dawns office, unting and themos
Speaker 1: you know, just blows. The agent asked you, is that
Speaker 1: what you perceived them to be? Who didn't perceive them
Speaker 1: to be viable threats? He thought? And your answer was,
Speaker 1: I thought they're just blows, just like blowing off. Do
Speaker 1: you recall it? I didn't recall that in your name.
Speaker 1: But Elizabeth later corrected the defense lawyer and insisted that
Speaker 1: she was as scared of George Wagner as any of
Speaker 1: the others. When you left Ohio back in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: we were escaping from Angelas Andrew and Jean, I've belaved
Speaker 1: myself to me? Is kaping from here again? Jeff and
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan? And do you think is she in
Speaker 1: a factive witness for the prosecution? I think she is
Speaker 1: an excellent witness for the prosecution, you know, and I'm
Speaker 1: friends with guy, as you will know. But to have
Speaker 1: this kind of circumstantial witness that's up there where they
Speaker 1: can kind of paint a picture of what life was
Speaker 1: like on the inside. You can have all the blood
Speaker 1: events in the world that you want, you can have
Speaker 1: all the ballistic evidence that you want in the world.
Speaker 1: You can see bodies ripped shreds, but when you have
Speaker 1: a person that survived, it is there to tell the tale.
Speaker 1: She's potentially nailing the coffin. More on that next time.
Speaker 1: For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pacton Masker
Speaker 1: is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Connor Howell, Andrew Arnow,
Speaker 1: Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
Speaker 1: by Jeff Tis, Music by Jared Aston. The Pike Damasacer
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more
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