WEBVTT - John Hoogenakker

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<v Speaker 1>When I've done work in Los Angeles and New York,

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<v Speaker 1>and I've never lived in either of those cities, but

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<v Speaker 1>I spent a good amount of time in them getting

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<v Speaker 1>to work. When people found out that I was based

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<v Speaker 1>in Chicago, they were always kind of gobsmacked. I was like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>why did they fly your dumbass in here when there's

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<v Speaker 1>there's so many talented actors here. So there was always

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<v Speaker 1>like a certain amount of, you know, low key glee

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<v Speaker 1>that I had kind of beat the odds just by

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<v Speaker 1>getting a seat at the table from Chicago. But I

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<v Speaker 1>also felt like a representative of what the city has

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<v Speaker 1>to offer. Chicago is lousy with incredibly talented actors. Hi,

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<v Speaker 1>my name is John Hogan Acker, and I'm just a

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<v Speaker 1>guy doing acting stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, everybody, I'm so excited to welcome you all to

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<v Speaker 2>this week's episode of Off the Beat. I am your host,

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<v Speaker 2>as always, Brian Baumgartner, and I'm also very excited to

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<v Speaker 2>announce that the incredible John Hoganacher is joining us today.

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<v Speaker 2>Just like me, John has an extensive theater background, working

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<v Speaker 2>on productions like Anthony and Cleopatra, Hamlet, and one of

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<v Speaker 2>my dark dark favorites, Killer Joe. He of course, didn't

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<v Speaker 2>stop at theater. Since those good old days, he has

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<v Speaker 2>taken the film and television world by storm, jumping into

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<v Speaker 2>some very intense and very impressive roles on shows like

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<v Speaker 2>Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan, Dope, Sick, and Waco The Aftermath.

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<v Speaker 2>Now he is here to go deep into his life

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<v Speaker 2>and his career from his commercial days. Dilly Dilly, anyone

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<v Speaker 2>to working on Jack Ryan with some guy named John Krasinski.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you got I have heard of him.

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<v Speaker 2>I definitely haven't. All jokes aside, this is a great conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>So without further idea, John Hoganaker, everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>Bubble and squeak. I love it.

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<v Speaker 3>Bubble and squeak. I know, bubble and squeak.

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<v Speaker 2>I cook, get every mole left over from the night before.

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<v Speaker 3>What's up, John, hey man?

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<v Speaker 1>How you doing.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm great. How are you?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm good, I'm good.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not wearing the headphones. We tried to figure the

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing out, and of course it all fell apart.

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<v Speaker 1>The wheels came off to trolley at the last minute.

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<v Speaker 1>So here we are.

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<v Speaker 3>Listen.

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<v Speaker 2>I know exactly what that's like every every day, every

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<v Speaker 2>day of my life.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so nice to talk to you.

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<v Speaker 2>I really am such a big fan of yours and

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<v Speaker 2>what you have been doing here man be hanging out. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we have a lot of things in common. Some are

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<v Speaker 2>mostly manufactured by me, but we do have a lot

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<v Speaker 2>in common. You grew up, I understand in the South,

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<v Speaker 2>right in Charlotte.

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<v Speaker 1>I sure did. In fact, I'm actually in the South now.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, you're right. So you're in the South right now?

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<v Speaker 3>You live in the South.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I'm from Charlotte, North Carolina, and a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>family in the mountains. So I was coming up here

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<v Speaker 1>a lot as a kid, and we moved back to

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<v Speaker 1>the Asheville area during the pandemic.

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<v Speaker 3>Really, yeah, you do you love it? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh yeah, I love it so much. A lot

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff that I needed to kind of take care of. You,

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<v Speaker 1>needed to be closer to family, and a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if this is the way you're your

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<v Speaker 1>experience of this, this job being an actor is but

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of a lot of stuff for me comes

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<v Speaker 1>down to taping. Anyway. When I was in Chicago, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the jobs that I was winning or that

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<v Speaker 1>were filming around the country were from tapes. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when we got deep into the belly of the pandemic,

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<v Speaker 1>my wife and I were kind of like, I went,

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<v Speaker 1>let me back up. I went to do Dope sic

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<v Speaker 1>which filmed in Richmond, and my wife and the kids

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<v Speaker 1>came out for the month of March and we spent

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<v Speaker 1>the whole and you know, in the South, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>the flowers are on the trees in March, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>spring everything, you know, the birds are singing. And then uh,

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<v Speaker 1>we finished and she went back home and the same

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<v Speaker 1>two feet of snow was on the ground that was

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<v Speaker 1>there when she left in Chicago, and it was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>going to be winter for another couple of months. And

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<v Speaker 1>she smummed about it. And I was like, well, what

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<v Speaker 1>if we just went ahead? And what if we just

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<v Speaker 1>went ahead and did it? Made the move? So it has.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been wonderful, wonderful change of pace. It's a it's

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<v Speaker 1>a gentler rhythm. I feel like when I travel, like

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<v Speaker 1>I live in a yoga studio and I take that

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<v Speaker 1>yoga studio with me. People in New York are like, dude,

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<v Speaker 1>you're so chill.

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<v Speaker 3>It is a beautiful area.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a little town called Greenville, South Carolina, which is

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<v Speaker 2>not overly far from you, which I had relatives that

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<v Speaker 2>lived in green I was in Atlanta and I had

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<v Speaker 2>relatives that lived in Greenville. When I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 2>Greenville was nothing. I'm just gonna see, I'm just gonna

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<v Speaker 2>say it straight out. And now it is a booming,

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<v Speaker 2>mid size, mid city metropolis with great food and places

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<v Speaker 2>to go and river walks and it's beautiful.

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<v Speaker 3>It's beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>Greenville has that Asheville does not have is a costco.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's the little thing right we want you.

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<v Speaker 1>I want six worlds of toilet paper. I'm going to Greenville.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, And to finish this off, yet another weird connection.

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<v Speaker 2>I am lying tomorrow this is this is not a joke,

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<v Speaker 2>and this was not playing. I am flying tomorrow morning

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<v Speaker 2>to Chicago. I had several weeks ago been in Wyoming

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, we're done with the winter. I

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<v Speaker 2>packed up all my winter coats, I packed up. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm done with the winter. I'm flying. It's we're in

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<v Speaker 2>late April here, We're definitively in late April, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>flying to Chicago tomorrow. The high is going to be

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<v Speaker 2>forty on Saturday and Sunday. I can't even believe that

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<v Speaker 2>this is happening. I mean, I'm gonna have a great time,

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<v Speaker 2>don't get me wrong, but yes I am.

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<v Speaker 3>I can't believe it.

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<v Speaker 1>You're getting on that plane under your own steam, brind

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<v Speaker 1>So you did it to yourself and no, yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>you know the thing on One of the things that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm proud of myself for is that I every time

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<v Speaker 1>the weather's beautiful here in Asheville. I don't take like

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<v Speaker 1>a screenshot of the weather app and send it to

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<v Speaker 1>my friends in Chicago, but I fight. That's a daily

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<v Speaker 1>that's a daily battle that I'm always fighting, right, Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you know the dogwood trees are blooming right now, beautiful

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<v Speaker 1>or so it's going to be like rhododendrons and mountain

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<v Speaker 1>laurels and yeah, it's just a lovely part of the world.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you golf?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, you know what. I've been a golfer my

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<v Speaker 1>entire life, but you would not know it.

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<v Speaker 2>Watching There are great courses. I play a lot of golf.

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<v Speaker 2>I it's funny when I get homesick for the South.

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<v Speaker 2>Is the masters being from Georgia, And it's because of

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<v Speaker 2>what you're talking about it's the azaleas. They got it

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<v Speaker 2>time perfectly, man, the beginning of April, the azaleas come

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<v Speaker 2>out the dogwoods and I'm like.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, man, yeah, that is that is really beautiful.

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<v Speaker 2>Enough about weather. Well, so another thing you and I

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<v Speaker 2>have in common. You did the forensics thing. I state

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<v Speaker 2>and district champion of I was I I was stay

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<v Speaker 2>champion there two three four years or something there in Georgia.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that where you started performing or did you have

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<v Speaker 2>an interest in it and that's what brought you to that?

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<v Speaker 3>Well?

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<v Speaker 1>You know I did. So. My dad did commercials in Charlotte.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a life insurance and he did you know,

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<v Speaker 1>voiceover and television commercials, and he was a real like

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<v Speaker 1>funny guy. He was a life of the party. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, so I looked up to him and I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to emulate him. So I got in trouble all

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<v Speaker 1>the time in school. I was a class clown. And

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<v Speaker 1>when I was in like fifth and sixth grade, I

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<v Speaker 1>started doing plays at the children's theater in Charlotte, and

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<v Speaker 1>then I got braces. And I had braces for a

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<v Speaker 1>few years and my dad was like, well, there's no

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<v Speaker 1>market for a child with braces, So then around early

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<v Speaker 1>high school. I think I got into debate around like

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<v Speaker 1>probably sophomore year, because at that point we still had

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<v Speaker 1>Junior high, you know, which was through nine and then

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<v Speaker 1>you had ten through twelve for high school. And my

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<v Speaker 1>debate coach, I don't know, did you compete in like

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<v Speaker 1>humorous interp and dramatic intermsmatic? That's right, yes, well cool, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And for the listeners who don't know what Brian and

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<v Speaker 1>I are talking about, it was like you would basically

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<v Speaker 1>pick a play or it could be a TV show

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<v Speaker 1>or it could be a movie. You would do a

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<v Speaker 1>ten minute cutting and you had to have an introduction

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<v Speaker 1>somewhere in there. You had to basically keep your feet planted,

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<v Speaker 1>but you could play all the characters. And I went

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<v Speaker 1>after Monty Python because I was like, surely everybody wants

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<v Speaker 1>to hear my rendition.

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<v Speaker 3>And debate.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like Monty Python never wins, but knock yourself out, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>And Monty Python did not win for me. Then I

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<v Speaker 1>started doing different plays and had a lot of fun

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<v Speaker 1>with it, and yeah, I got to be it was

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<v Speaker 1>a state champion two times and I was a district

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<v Speaker 1>champion two times, so that was a lot of fun.

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<v Speaker 1>But that kind of strengthened the audition muscle, probably more

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<v Speaker 1>than anything else, because then, you know, when I was

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<v Speaker 1>towards the end of high school, kind of on a lark,

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<v Speaker 1>I auditioned for the theater school at DePaul University, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I didn't even go for Juilliard because it

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<v Speaker 1>seemed unattainable, was more expensive the audition process, and Chicago seemed,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, it seemed tamer at the time than

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<v Speaker 1>New York City. I got in, which was very cool.

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<v Speaker 1>The school was a super intense program. Did you do

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<v Speaker 1>like a theater conservatory or anything like that for college?

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<v Speaker 3>I did. I went to SMU in DAWs, Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, solid school.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So the program for us, I don't know. Did you

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<v Speaker 1>guys have a cut program too? At SMU?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, there were no cuts, but people cut themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think we started out with fifteen actors

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, by the end, you know, seven.

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<v Speaker 3>Or eight, Wow, would make it four years? Yeah, it was.

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<v Speaker 1>It was the same same percentage that we lost. They

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<v Speaker 1>brought in seventy some our first year in ninety five.

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<v Speaker 1>Then they cut half of us after the first year.

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<v Speaker 1>They cut the remaining after the second year, and then

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<v Speaker 1>if you made it past the second cut, you were

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<v Speaker 1>in the casting pool for your junior and senior year. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and so so that the NFL thing, the debate, the

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<v Speaker 1>forensics thing always helped me when it came time to

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<v Speaker 1>get in front of you know, a team of producers

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<v Speaker 1>and a director or something kind of walk in and

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<v Speaker 1>try and own the room, because I've had been doing

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<v Speaker 1>that in front of fellow teenagers for you know, three

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<v Speaker 1>or four years, getting a stink guy from competitors.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, that's interesting. I have never truly, I have

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<v Speaker 2>never made that connection before. But of course you're right,

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<v Speaker 2>because that experience with you know, three judges and some

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<v Speaker 2>other a few other people watching, which does you're exactly right,

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<v Speaker 2>It does mimic that the audition experienced later on there's

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<v Speaker 2>three or four judges. Yeah, that's very interesting, John, I'd

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<v Speaker 2>never really thought about that before. But the advantage for

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<v Speaker 2>having just done it, whether you've done it well or not,

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<v Speaker 2>just getting comfortable walking into a small setting. It's much

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<v Speaker 2>easier to perform I think, in front of a thousand

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<v Speaker 2>or two thousand people sometimes than those really small rooms.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Oh, yeah, absolutely, you've probably done the black blocks

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<v Speaker 1>theater thing too in your life. Yes, I had a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of opportunities to do that in Chicago, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of great spaces. There's nothing like that live experience. And

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<v Speaker 1>as we move into the AI age, I think the

0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.280
<v Speaker 1>craziness is it'll be the theater actors at the end

0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.720
<v Speaker 1>of the day who are the only ones. But yeah,

0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.480
<v Speaker 1>the ability to kind of go into a room of

0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:07.680
<v Speaker 1>people and you're all live being, sharing space and you

0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:12.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of start to cast a spell that whips everybody up.

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.240
<v Speaker 1>It's a really really amazing thing to get to be

0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:16.720
<v Speaker 1>a part of.

0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.000
<v Speaker 2>So you when you go to De Paul, have you

0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.880
<v Speaker 2>decided in your mind that this is what you want

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.080
<v Speaker 2>to do, that you want to be an actor?

0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:28.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.679
<v Speaker 1>I just was positive that I was going to be.

0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.120
<v Speaker 1>I was going to go to Second City and do

0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:37.320
<v Speaker 1>the whole thing. I you know, in high school, especially

0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.480
<v Speaker 1>because of the hi thing, I humorous interp the debate thing.

0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.840
<v Speaker 1>I thought I was going to do stand up. And

0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.199
<v Speaker 1>I had a first year acting teacher that I absolutely

0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.200
<v Speaker 1>revered kind of pulled me aside one day and he

0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.320
<v Speaker 1>was like, you know, John, you remind me of Robin Williams,

0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:54.920
<v Speaker 1>And I was to me that was like nobody could

0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.800
<v Speaker 1>have said a kinder thing to me and then drop

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.640
<v Speaker 1>the other, which was to him that was not a compliment,

0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:06.520
<v Speaker 1>and it crushed me. And the school was very very

0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 1>hard for me in that regard. It was like, you know,

0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 1>they always talk about when you joined the Marine Corps,

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:16.280
<v Speaker 1>boot camp is about stripping away the individual and turning

0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.440
<v Speaker 1>you into this one thing that doesn't really think. You

0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:21.640
<v Speaker 1>just complete the mission. You're part of a team. And

0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.040
<v Speaker 1>in a very odd way, that was what going to

0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:26.920
<v Speaker 1>college to be an actor was for me.

0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:27.520
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.440
<v Speaker 1>I remember going for the audition and being surrounded by

0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 1>all these kids in leotards doing like vocal warm ups

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.000
<v Speaker 1>and being like, what the fuck is going? Like, I

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:40.200
<v Speaker 1>had no idea. I had no idea. That was why

0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 1>I was sure. I was like, well, I'm not getting

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:43.880
<v Speaker 1>in here. So I feel like a lot of my

0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:48.040
<v Speaker 1>career has been about trying to tap back into some

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 1>of that fairy dust, you know, that I had in

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.120
<v Speaker 1>my soul before I came to a theater conservatory.

0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that even answered your question remotely. No.

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:01.520
<v Speaker 3>Well, one, I don't know either.

0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.880
<v Speaker 2>But two, that's very very interesting because I think that

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:09.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, I mean, I am tremendously grateful for the

0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.360
<v Speaker 2>experience that I had and the training that I have.

0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.800
<v Speaker 3>But I think that you bring up an interesting.

0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Point, which, by the way, at least at SMU, the

0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.320
<v Speaker 2>teachers talked about, which is you're learning all of these

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:27.160
<v Speaker 2>tools and movement and voice and action and objective and

0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:31.640
<v Speaker 2>all of those things, and then eventually you are supposed

0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.800
<v Speaker 2>to just let it go and go back and have

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:37.800
<v Speaker 2>it be a part of your training, but not what

0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:42.040
<v Speaker 2>you're focusing on. And I think especially young actors get

0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:46.760
<v Speaker 2>wrapped up in that process as sort of falling in

0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:51.360
<v Speaker 2>love with the process, which then you know doesn't enable

0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:55.440
<v Speaker 2>you to perform. Yet you mentioned something you talked about

0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:57.400
<v Speaker 2>boot camp, and I do want to touch on this

0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 2>because this is well unique and by the way, this

0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.240
<v Speaker 2>is not a place we connect. You spent a bit

0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:09.840
<v Speaker 2>of time at that Naval Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps.

0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Now one, what is this and how old were you?

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Was this a potential path for you early on?

0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Man, that was a deep dive, bro, I'm so glad

0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:23.400
<v Speaker 1>you asked that question. That's really really cool. Yes, it

0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.200
<v Speaker 1>was a potential path for me at one point. So

0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:30.440
<v Speaker 1>my dad, as I mentioned was selling life insurance. When

0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.480
<v Speaker 1>I was in seventh grade. The group of people that

0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.480
<v Speaker 1>my dad was selling life insurance with dissolved, and to

0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.240
<v Speaker 1>me as a kid, I thought, oh, no, my dad's

0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.760
<v Speaker 1>out of work. I have to secure my own future.

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.000
<v Speaker 1>And that was, you know, in a way, that was

0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 1>kind of true for a little while. But at Carmel

0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Junior High where I grew up in Charlotte, in your

0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:55.320
<v Speaker 1>ninth grade year, you could begin in JROTC. In high school,

0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.520
<v Speaker 1>they have JROTC and it can be you know, typically

0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.320
<v Speaker 1>it's Air Force, Army or Navy. So I believe maybe

0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 1>there are some Marine Corps schools. But in the eighth

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:10.600
<v Speaker 1>grade year, the master sergeant who was in charge of

0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.879
<v Speaker 1>our ninth grade year would bring in a small group

0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.760
<v Speaker 1>of eighth graders that he would kind of train alongside

0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.439
<v Speaker 1>the ninth graders and then they would become the for

0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.040
<v Speaker 1>lack of a better term, the cadet commanders of that

0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.720
<v Speaker 1>ninth grade year when they became ninth graders. So that

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.520
<v Speaker 1>was me. I went up to Master Sergeant pageant. This

0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.480
<v Speaker 1>guy wore a smoky and had gotten into the Marine

0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.679
<v Speaker 1>Corps at age seventeen from a very poor background. At

0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:41.200
<v Speaker 1>Tennessee and parental consent and got to go to Korea

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.960
<v Speaker 1>as essentially a child. Came back and became a drill

0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.399
<v Speaker 1>instructor at Parris Island, and then became the head of

0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>the drill instructor training school at Paras Island. So this

0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.040
<v Speaker 1>guy was like Lee Ermie from Full Metal Jacket.

0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:55.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean, he was a.

0:17:55.520 --> 0:18:02.439
<v Speaker 1>Real thing, and he was being a super intense character.

0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:09.200
<v Speaker 1>I learned so much about how to comport yourself in society,

0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.120
<v Speaker 1>how to be a responsible grown up, how to wear

0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:18.399
<v Speaker 1>a suit, and about decorum. So I started to discern

0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:23.480
<v Speaker 1>a path to college for myself. But I was also

0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.320
<v Speaker 1>beginning to see the clicks in high school, and I

0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.120
<v Speaker 1>was seeing the ROTC click and seeing myself as being

0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.240
<v Speaker 1>a part of that clique. And I was beginning to

0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.200
<v Speaker 1>think of it in terms of you know, this is

0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.879
<v Speaker 1>in retrospect, Brian, but it was really a role that

0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:43.480
<v Speaker 1>I was playing, and I was not ultimately cut out

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.080
<v Speaker 1>for that. I did not want that to be my life.

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.600
<v Speaker 1>I was I think I was wise enough at that age,

0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.280
<v Speaker 1>not that I was super wise, but I was wise

0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.440
<v Speaker 1>enough to know that that wasn't I wasn't ready to

0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 1>commit to that for the rest of my life, and

0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.600
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to experience more so halfway through ninth grade,

0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.480
<v Speaker 1>I backed out and got a pair of birkenstocks and

0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:06.120
<v Speaker 1>here I am.

0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:14.200
<v Speaker 2>You joined the you joined the click across the cafeteria

0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.080
<v Speaker 2>like that was on the other corner of the cafeteria.

0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean to tell you, man, within like a year

0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:21.639
<v Speaker 1>and a half, my hair was down to here and

0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:26.600
<v Speaker 1>it was like Kaki Sack every morning. But again, it

0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.439
<v Speaker 1>was like, I'm very glad that I had that experience.

0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.240
<v Speaker 1>It was it's good to kind of feel like you're

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.920
<v Speaker 1>being a part of something civic minded, especially if it's

0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.480
<v Speaker 1>not to the detriment or to the exclusion of any

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.280
<v Speaker 1>one group. That's the main thing.

0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know what, I think that it's you know,

0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't have that specific experience, but I think that

0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:56.520
<v Speaker 2>what you're talking about is so valuable that you have

0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:01.360
<v Speaker 2>a variety of experiences, go through a variety of different

0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.320
<v Speaker 2>groups if you will, or I mean it sounds like

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.119
<v Speaker 2>you being civic minded and choosing something of a civic

0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.800
<v Speaker 2>minded that's well a plus to you. But just having

0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:17.440
<v Speaker 2>that experience to pull from as an actor later on

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.720
<v Speaker 2>is invaluable. And it never makes sense to me, when

0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.760
<v Speaker 2>you find that click or you decide, oh, I'm you know,

0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:30.240
<v Speaker 2>a theater kid or whatever too early on, and you,

0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:34.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, turn your nose up to other experiences or whatever.

0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I think you're doing yourself a disservice for the thing

0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:39.880
<v Speaker 2>that you ultimately want to do.

0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.280
<v Speaker 1>One hundred percent, Brian, And I think that's what you're

0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.760
<v Speaker 1>to me. What you're saying is really about you need

0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.760
<v Speaker 1>to kind of experience as many different walks of life

0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.000
<v Speaker 1>as you can right on your way to being a

0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:56.399
<v Speaker 1>well rounded person. And that's what really childhood, ideally and

0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.800
<v Speaker 1>adolescence and young adulthood are all about.

0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.840
<v Speaker 2>You mentioned before you thought Second City was your path,

0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:22.720
<v Speaker 2>that's what you were going to do. Look looking doing

0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:24.920
<v Speaker 2>a little dive into your resume, it sounds like that's

0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:29.159
<v Speaker 2>not exactly what happened as you left to Paul uh

0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Anthony and Anthony and Cleopatra, Hamlet, The Iceman, Cometh, Tracy Lets,

0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Killer Joe by the Way, which nobody is going to know,

0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:39.960
<v Speaker 2>or they did make a movie of it.

0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:46.320
<v Speaker 3>That play blew my mind. So you become.

0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Fairly quickly a working actor in one of the theater

0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:53.760
<v Speaker 2>hotbeds in the country, Chicago, talk to me a little

0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:57.000
<v Speaker 2>bit about your experience and did you then think that

0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:59.760
<v Speaker 2>that was your life.

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:04.000
<v Speaker 1>I've always dreamed of having a path kind of like

0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:08.439
<v Speaker 1>what I envisioned the like the English actors path to be.

0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:12.120
<v Speaker 1>They get to have this great theater background and then

0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:14.760
<v Speaker 1>they sort of at some point in their careers they

0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:20.600
<v Speaker 1>graduate into getting to also concurrently do film and television

0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:23.000
<v Speaker 1>and that's so that's on the bucket list too. I

0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:28.240
<v Speaker 1>want to be a detective in western North Carolina.

0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.680
<v Speaker 2>All right, you've come close, by the way, we'll talk

0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:36.240
<v Speaker 2>about that. You've come pretty close, but all right, go ahead.

0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:36.679
<v Speaker 4>No.

0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.680
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that was like the Anthony and Cleopatra was

0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:42.280
<v Speaker 1>an audition that I did when I was still in college,

0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:46.080
<v Speaker 1>and I got to play the role of Skaus, which is,

0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:48.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, like a guard, like not a big role

0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:50.720
<v Speaker 1>at all, but I got to be on stage with

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:56.959
<v Speaker 1>Larry Yando, Kevin Goodall, Lisa Dodson, Bradley Armacoste, Scott Parkinson,

0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:59.840
<v Speaker 1>and Barbara Gaines was directing These are like luminaries of

0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:05.320
<v Speaker 1>Icago Classical Theater and theater in Chicago, and it was like,

0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:07.960
<v Speaker 1>holy shit.

0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:12.520
<v Speaker 4>Anything can go wrong on this stage in real time

0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:16.280
<v Speaker 4>while we're doing Shakespeare, and one of these geniuses is

0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 4>just gonna fix it, like we can just pull and

0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:21.680
<v Speaker 4>we can ride this, and we're all together and we're

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:23.679
<v Speaker 4>gonna support each other and we'll get.

0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:26.680
<v Speaker 1>To the end. And the crowd, even especially if they

0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:29.600
<v Speaker 1>see the fuck ups, they're gonna love it. Well, good banana.

0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:34.439
<v Speaker 1>And it was like I had spent four years learning

0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:37.880
<v Speaker 1>all of this stuff in an institutional environment, but it

0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:40.879
<v Speaker 1>wasn't until I got on stage with these pros that

0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:45.040
<v Speaker 1>it was like my education truly began in earnest. So

0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:49.359
<v Speaker 1>that was going on, and then after I mean, I

0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:53.280
<v Speaker 1>did that first production, and then in the February of

0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:57.080
<v Speaker 1>two thousand, first year out of college, the production that

0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Mike Shannon had taken to New York with Tracy Lett's

0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:04.159
<v Speaker 1>play Killer Joe came back as a four like as

0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:07.000
<v Speaker 1>a profit production, and the rules were at that point

0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:09.560
<v Speaker 1>that they had to hire two kids in their twenties

0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.159
<v Speaker 1>under union contract. So I had to join the union

0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:16.000
<v Speaker 1>at twenty three years old in Chicago, in a city

0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:18.800
<v Speaker 1>at the time which was lousy with dudes my age

0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:22.159
<v Speaker 1>who were non equity well into their thirties, So it

0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:24.080
<v Speaker 1>was like, who the hell do you think you are, man,

0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.960
<v Speaker 1>You've graduated college fifteen minutes ago, and now I got

0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.879
<v Speaker 1>to pick healthcare bucket. I don't think so, But you know,

0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:34.840
<v Speaker 1>I was like, when I got that job, it was

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:39.520
<v Speaker 1>like the grittiest theater going on in Chicago, despite the

0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:41.360
<v Speaker 1>fact that it was a production coming back from out

0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:45.440
<v Speaker 1>of town. And after that, I mean, it was so intense,

0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:48.520
<v Speaker 1>Brian that, like, my wife would pick me up after

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.560
<v Speaker 1>shows sometimes and she wouldn't know who was getting in

0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:55.280
<v Speaker 1>the car with her. But I was making a living

0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:59.119
<v Speaker 1>as a theater actor in Chicago, and I was getting

0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:02.360
<v Speaker 1>money into my healthcare, so I knew that the next

0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:04.159
<v Speaker 1>year I'd be able to go to the doctor and

0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:06.920
<v Speaker 1>do these kinds of things. And I felt like, even

0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:09.000
<v Speaker 1>though it seemed like a gamble because there were so

0:25:09.040 --> 0:25:12.080
<v Speaker 1>many incredibly talented actors my age, it was worth it

0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:14.080
<v Speaker 1>because I knew that this was what I wanted to do.

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:15.240
<v Speaker 3>And then I.

0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:20.400
<v Speaker 1>Survived as a union actor by winning jobs that took

0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:23.520
<v Speaker 1>me to other places out of Chicago until I was

0:25:24.080 --> 0:25:26.520
<v Speaker 1>old enough to kind of be in the casting pool

0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:27.879
<v Speaker 1>in Chicago as a union actor.

0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:31.560
<v Speaker 2>Are you at this point are you thinking about film

0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:34.480
<v Speaker 2>and television? Where do you see your life heading at

0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:35.760
<v Speaker 2>that point.

0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:40.280
<v Speaker 1>I guess I had some dim idea that I would

0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:42.680
<v Speaker 1>I would be one of the few people who booked

0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:46.120
<v Speaker 1>a series regular role in the show that came to Chicago, which,

0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:49.720
<v Speaker 1>as you know, that was very rare. Typically when a

0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:53.239
<v Speaker 1>big production is coming to a place like Minneapolis or

0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:56.880
<v Speaker 1>to Chicago, it's because they're shooting on location in those

0:25:56.920 --> 0:25:59.720
<v Speaker 1>cities and they're as a pretty strong well of talent

0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:03.240
<v Speaker 1>local there to pick up the smaller roles, So a

0:26:03.280 --> 0:26:06.440
<v Speaker 1>lot of the bigger, better roles are already cast before

0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:12.040
<v Speaker 1>those shows come to Chicago Earth And I began to

0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:17.119
<v Speaker 1>figure that out probably early on, but you know, I

0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:20.639
<v Speaker 1>was still like I I got to audition for I

0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:24.199
<v Speaker 1>got to my first like on camera job was it

0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:27.119
<v Speaker 1>was with Clint Eastwood directing, and it was Flags of

0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:30.840
<v Speaker 1>our Fathers at George Gizzard was in the scene that

0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:33.520
<v Speaker 1>I got to do. It was a really heady experience

0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:36.040
<v Speaker 1>and they gave me half of a trailer and that

0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:38.359
<v Speaker 1>was my first job. That was my first job. So

0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:40.280
<v Speaker 1>I thought that was what being an actor was going

0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:47.040
<v Speaker 1>to be. But I was getting on camera work often

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:50.000
<v Speaker 1>enough to where I thought, yeah, this is this is

0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:53.200
<v Speaker 1>building to something. I was also really interested in doing

0:26:53.359 --> 0:26:57.080
<v Speaker 1>voice work, so from a very early age I was

0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:00.440
<v Speaker 1>chasing voiceover. So I got to do a lot of

0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 1>voiceover over the years too, which which helped me kind

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:05.720
<v Speaker 1>of make ends meet and kind of string it together.

0:27:06.280 --> 0:27:11.240
<v Speaker 1>But I always thought, there's gonna be a role that's

0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:13.600
<v Speaker 1>going to take me to Los Angeles, or there's gonna

0:27:13.600 --> 0:27:15.359
<v Speaker 1>be a role that's going to take me to New York.

0:27:15.680 --> 0:27:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna leave work that i'm actively doing in

0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 1>this vibrant community to search it out.

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:26.840
<v Speaker 2>Interesting. Did you find that able to be true?

0:27:27.800 --> 0:27:31.040
<v Speaker 1>I will say that when I've done work in Los

0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:33.880
<v Speaker 1>Angeles and New York, and I've never lived in either

0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:35.480
<v Speaker 1>of those cities, but I spent a good amount of

0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:38.080
<v Speaker 1>time in them getting to work. When people found out

0:27:38.080 --> 0:27:40.160
<v Speaker 1>that I was based in Chicago, they were always kind

0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:43.120
<v Speaker 1>of gobsmacked. It was like, well, why did they fly

0:27:43.280 --> 0:27:48.040
<v Speaker 1>your dumbass in here when there's there's so many talent

0:27:48.160 --> 0:27:52.960
<v Speaker 1>wactors here. And so there was always like a certain

0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:56.640
<v Speaker 1>amount of, you know, low key glee that I had

0:27:56.800 --> 0:27:59.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of beat the odds just by getting a seat

0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:02.359
<v Speaker 1>at the table from Chicago. But I also felt like

0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:06.280
<v Speaker 1>a representative of what this city has to offer. Chicago

0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:12.879
<v Speaker 1>is lousy with incredibly talented actors like Middle America, just

0:28:13.359 --> 0:28:19.119
<v Speaker 1>solid natural acting. And I feel so grateful for the

0:28:19.160 --> 0:28:22.000
<v Speaker 1>time that I got to spend there, continuing to study

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:27.040
<v Speaker 1>and continuing to grind, like it was a grind, particularly

0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:30.560
<v Speaker 1>when you're dealing with mother Nature, which you know is

0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, pleasant in Chicago for like maybe three months

0:28:34.320 --> 0:28:35.800
<v Speaker 1>of the year combined.

0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Right right, I mean, it's crazy, guys. John Is first

0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:45.840
<v Speaker 2>two credits that at least are listed where I can

0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:49.800
<v Speaker 2>find things are Flags of Our Fathers with Clenn eas

0:28:49.840 --> 0:28:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Wood and Er, which at the time is like the

0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:59.040
<v Speaker 2>biggest show in television. How does Er come about?

0:28:59.240 --> 0:29:07.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, they would feel exterior shots sometimes in Chicago, got it,

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:09.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean that was a big one, obviously shooting in

0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:12.040
<v Speaker 1>Los Angeles, but every now and then they would have

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:15.080
<v Speaker 1>the stars of the show kind of outside on the

0:29:15.080 --> 0:29:18.440
<v Speaker 1>street in Chicago to sort of place it in Chicago.

0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 1>And so I played a I played a doctor doctor.

0:29:22.600 --> 0:29:25.680
<v Speaker 1>It was like literally doctor Collins and the props guy

0:29:25.800 --> 0:29:30.160
<v Speaker 1>had Doctor Tom Collins, which was kind of a little

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:36.479
<v Speaker 1>little joke, but yeah, that was opposite Linda Carlini at

0:29:36.520 --> 0:29:39.440
<v Speaker 1>the time, which was really really cool. She's gone on

0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:42.320
<v Speaker 1>to do so much amazing stuff, particularly like Dead to Me,

0:29:42.360 --> 0:29:44.040
<v Speaker 1>which I don't know if you've watched that show.

0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:44.200
<v Speaker 3>Which is.

0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:49.640
<v Speaker 2>So great in that show. Yes, but you're going back

0:29:49.640 --> 0:29:52.040
<v Speaker 2>to the theater. You're continuing to work in the theater

0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:55.800
<v Speaker 2>through the the aughts that they call them.

0:29:56.520 --> 0:30:00.480
<v Speaker 1>And it was always there were only a handful of

0:30:00.920 --> 0:30:05.600
<v Speaker 1>theater companies in Chicago at that time that were supportive

0:30:05.920 --> 0:30:10.320
<v Speaker 1>of theater actors winning on camera work. Okay, without getting

0:30:10.720 --> 0:30:14.000
<v Speaker 1>this is going to be really boring, but the contracts

0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:17.240
<v Speaker 1>in Chicago theater allow for you to go and do

0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:20.280
<v Speaker 1>on camera work, but it's always up to the theater's discretion.

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:24.400
<v Speaker 1>So you know, as a Midwestern working actor, you don't

0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:28.440
<v Speaker 1>want to burn bridges. But I was always kind of

0:30:28.480 --> 0:30:32.160
<v Speaker 1>able to sneak around and do a couple days here,

0:30:32.200 --> 0:30:33.000
<v Speaker 1>a couple of days there.

0:30:33.600 --> 0:30:37.680
<v Speaker 2>You're working in the theater, you're getting days or a

0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:41.880
<v Speaker 2>week or whatever. In film and television and also doing

0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:46.160
<v Speaker 2>voiceover work. At this point, how many commercials are you

0:30:46.200 --> 0:30:47.400
<v Speaker 2>getting around this time?

0:30:48.000 --> 0:30:52.479
<v Speaker 1>Well? I did, I did. I actually won campaigns. So

0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:57.320
<v Speaker 1>I was the voice of Comcast actually for about years

0:30:57.600 --> 0:31:00.960
<v Speaker 1>for their television commercials I was doing the vo for them.

0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:04.280
<v Speaker 1>I was the voice of on Star for many years.

0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:10.680
<v Speaker 1>I did several years of McDonald's across many different ad agencies,

0:31:10.960 --> 0:31:13.720
<v Speaker 1>and throughout that time I was also picking up different

0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:17.000
<v Speaker 1>spots for other people who were advertising too. I did

0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:19.680
<v Speaker 1>a few video games here and there, and I was

0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:23.600
<v Speaker 1>getting to do on camera commercials here more and more

0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:27.160
<v Speaker 1>the later it got. I did a FedEx spot with

0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:31.520
<v Speaker 1>an on camera commercial director named Jim Jenkins, and we

0:31:31.640 --> 0:31:34.280
<v Speaker 1>ended up doing a couple FedEx spots. We did some

0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:37.360
<v Speaker 1>other like Hyundai spots, and then we did a one

0:31:37.400 --> 0:31:42.440
<v Speaker 1>off commercial for bud Light that ended up kind of

0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:44.640
<v Speaker 1>becoming this whole Dilly Dilly campaign.

0:31:45.040 --> 0:31:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean this is obviously where I'm going of commercials.

0:31:50.080 --> 0:31:55.520
<v Speaker 2>Maybe in history it rings very It rings high on

0:31:55.600 --> 0:31:58.880
<v Speaker 2>the top of people's whether you loved it or hated it.

0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Everybody knew the king in Dilly Dilly. Now when you're

0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:07.880
<v Speaker 2>doing this, are you are you on set?

0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:08.200
<v Speaker 3>Right?

0:32:08.240 --> 0:32:10.479
<v Speaker 2>So it's like if you're shooting a television show. Sometimes

0:32:10.480 --> 0:32:12.280
<v Speaker 2>you'll be like, wow, you know this is this is

0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:15.520
<v Speaker 2>pretty good? Are you thinking that this is going to

0:32:16.000 --> 0:32:16.840
<v Speaker 2>change the world?

0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:17.880
<v Speaker 3>Dilly Dilly?

0:32:17.960 --> 0:32:20.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, we did the first one, and we were

0:32:20.680 --> 0:32:24.400
<v Speaker 1>just I think bud Light were doing like four or five.

0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:27.920
<v Speaker 1>They had a zombie one, they had like a Revolutionary

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:30.920
<v Speaker 1>War era one, they had this weird Game of Thrones

0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:34.600
<v Speaker 1>it was ours, and then people just started using the

0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:37.920
<v Speaker 1>phrase dilly dilly. And then they brought us back for

0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:41.800
<v Speaker 1>one around Thanksgiving, and then like late November they called

0:32:41.840 --> 0:32:43.280
<v Speaker 1>and they were like, all right, we want to do

0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:45.640
<v Speaker 1>a Super Bowl spot and we're going to do it

0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:48.200
<v Speaker 1>in It's either going to be South Africa or New Zealand,

0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:50.120
<v Speaker 1>so get ready. And I was like, excuse me what?

0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:53.560
<v Speaker 1>And then we went to New Zealand and we filmed

0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:56.040
<v Speaker 1>the Super Bowl spots in friggin New Zealand, and then

0:32:56.080 --> 0:33:00.520
<v Speaker 1>we filmed in Argentina, We filmed in Czech Republic, filmed

0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:04.840
<v Speaker 1>many times in Spain. It was like a real dream

0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:07.320
<v Speaker 1>to get to work on. It was a lot of fun.

0:33:07.360 --> 0:33:09.040
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I think about it in terms of

0:33:09.120 --> 0:33:12.440
<v Speaker 1>like we were doing beer commercials, but really we were

0:33:12.520 --> 0:33:18.080
<v Speaker 1>just making ludicrous, funny for the benefit of a beer company,

0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:21.520
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, it was. It was just it was just

0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:24.479
<v Speaker 1>a lot of fun being like the stupidest guy in

0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:27.720
<v Speaker 1>the room who kind of thought he was the smartest

0:33:27.760 --> 0:33:30.640
<v Speaker 1>guy in the room, like, that's fun, that's fun space

0:33:30.680 --> 0:33:31.240
<v Speaker 1>to play in.

0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's it's so interesting that you talked very early

0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:40.479
<v Speaker 2>on about your humorous interpret days and choosing to do

0:33:40.600 --> 0:33:46.600
<v Speaker 2>money Python, because really I feel like that's what that

0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:54.400
<v Speaker 2>commercial was. It was like classic Monty Python humor done

0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:57.640
<v Speaker 2>in a really big and broad way but in a

0:33:57.680 --> 0:34:03.360
<v Speaker 2>way that everyone could understand and ludicrous but fun, just funny.

0:34:03.880 --> 0:34:06.120
<v Speaker 3>That's how I view it, viewed it anyway.

0:34:06.920 --> 0:34:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Good.

0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:14.279
<v Speaker 2>Do you feel like the success of that campaign propelled

0:34:14.320 --> 0:34:15.400
<v Speaker 2>your career forward?

0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:20.839
<v Speaker 1>You know, I was sitting on a boat in Columbia

0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:25.200
<v Speaker 1>on the Magdalena River with John Krazinsky, bitching and moaning

0:34:25.520 --> 0:34:29.400
<v Speaker 1>about my fear that that campaign would ruin my career,

0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:35.680
<v Speaker 1>and Krazinsky was like, dude, just bet on yourself, Just

0:34:35.719 --> 0:34:38.960
<v Speaker 1>bet on yourself. And he was also like everyone's doing

0:34:38.960 --> 0:34:41.760
<v Speaker 1>commercials these days, man, And I remember, like he did.

0:34:42.120 --> 0:34:45.200
<v Speaker 1>I think his story about insurance. You probably remember when

0:34:45.239 --> 0:34:51.120
<v Speaker 1>he for like fifteen years after that, all the vo

0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:53.600
<v Speaker 1>casting departments were like, give us a John Krazinski read.

0:34:56.560 --> 0:34:59.879
<v Speaker 1>You know it was it was funny because I think

0:35:00.000 --> 0:35:02.799
<v Speaker 1>it was such a it was this dumb kind of

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:07.520
<v Speaker 1>quasi period character and this big, long flowing robe. But

0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:12.920
<v Speaker 1>it was a character. And I guess the viewing public

0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:16.080
<v Speaker 1>who were seeing those either they put it together or

0:35:16.160 --> 0:35:19.080
<v Speaker 1>they didn't, But if they did, it didn't really one

0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:21.839
<v Speaker 1>didn't detract from the other necessarily in an odd way,

0:35:21.880 --> 0:35:25.040
<v Speaker 1>which I'm very, very grateful for because you know, as

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:26.920
<v Speaker 1>you've been talking about, a lot of the roles that

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:30.920
<v Speaker 1>I've played on film and television have been pretty serious,

0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 1>and so I'm grateful. I feel fortunate to have gotten

0:35:35.120 --> 0:35:37.640
<v Speaker 1>to be a part of those stories. But I also

0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:40.799
<v Speaker 1>feel grateful and fortunate to get to make funny. You know,

0:35:41.719 --> 0:35:44.680
<v Speaker 1>if your career starts to go in one direction, people

0:35:44.760 --> 0:35:46.839
<v Speaker 1>start to think, well, that's what Brian does, that's all

0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:50.560
<v Speaker 1>Brian wants to do. It's not necessarily the case as

0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:52.879
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily all Brian can bring to the table. That's

0:35:52.960 --> 0:35:54.960
<v Speaker 1>just kind of what you guys keep asking Brian to do.

0:35:55.520 --> 0:35:57.160
<v Speaker 1>That's what I think. That's what it's been for me.

0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:00.840
<v Speaker 1>So I feel like I've gotten a few got a

0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:02.840
<v Speaker 1>few lucky ones in there where I've gotten to do

0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:03.759
<v Speaker 1>funny stuff too.

0:36:04.440 --> 0:36:08.799
<v Speaker 3>That's awesome. Who's John Krazinski? Uh?

0:36:08.840 --> 0:36:15.520
<v Speaker 1>He was this young actor who he portrayed, showed it

0:36:15.880 --> 0:36:17.440
<v Speaker 1>a fledgling Amazon production.

0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:25.959
<v Speaker 2>Yes, John worked with my old pal, other John John

0:36:26.000 --> 0:36:29.120
<v Speaker 2>and I put that together. What was it like working

0:36:29.160 --> 0:36:32.280
<v Speaker 2>with John on the first two seasons of Jack Ryan?

0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh he was great man.

0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Come on, no, no, no, no, no, come on, just

0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:39.040
<v Speaker 2>we're looking for truth here.

0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:43.440
<v Speaker 3>What was it like? What was it like working with John.

0:36:43.760 --> 0:36:46.000
<v Speaker 1>In this one scene where we were like going into

0:36:46.040 --> 0:36:51.520
<v Speaker 1>this like suspected terrorists den in Paris and John and

0:36:51.560 --> 0:36:54.440
<v Speaker 1>I were like at the back of a line of like, uh,

0:36:54.680 --> 0:36:57.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, like hardcore commando type dudes going up the

0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:00.399
<v Speaker 1>stairs and stuff. And he kept dropping the clip out

0:37:00.400 --> 0:37:03.560
<v Speaker 1>of his gun on the hard tile floor just to

0:37:03.560 --> 0:37:05.680
<v Speaker 1>make me laugh. I mean, we were like a couple

0:37:05.680 --> 0:37:07.839
<v Speaker 1>of fucking children, and it was like, this is a

0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:12.360
<v Speaker 1>big budget TV show, And every time I laughed, and

0:37:12.400 --> 0:37:13.160
<v Speaker 1>then he would just.

0:37:13.120 --> 0:37:16.919
<v Speaker 3>Do it again because yeah, that sounds about right.

0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:20.279
<v Speaker 1>I will say, this is a cool thing. He So

0:37:21.040 --> 0:37:25.879
<v Speaker 1>between season one and season two, A Quiet Place came out, Yes,

0:37:25.960 --> 0:37:30.000
<v Speaker 1>and it changed the dynamic on set going into season two,

0:37:30.080 --> 0:37:33.440
<v Speaker 1>and John had suddenly a lot more ability to kind

0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:36.400
<v Speaker 1>of talk about how he saw the scenes coming together,

0:37:36.840 --> 0:37:39.880
<v Speaker 1>and it was really cool. To see him kind of

0:37:39.960 --> 0:37:42.480
<v Speaker 1>rise to the moment. This's the thing that is like,

0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:44.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think there are actors out there who

0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:46.880
<v Speaker 1>just love to play different roles, and then there are

0:37:46.920 --> 0:37:49.960
<v Speaker 1>actors who are geared to kind of take over the world.

0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:53.600
<v Speaker 1>And John is one of the second category. I mean,

0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:56.520
<v Speaker 1>he's like the people that you see at the top

0:37:56.560 --> 0:37:59.680
<v Speaker 1>of their game. It's not a mistake. They put in

0:37:59.719 --> 0:38:02.360
<v Speaker 1>a lot of time, a lot of effort, worked really

0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:05.000
<v Speaker 1>fricking hard, and that was that was kind of my

0:38:05.080 --> 0:38:07.960
<v Speaker 1>take on John. But he John is awesome. He's been

0:38:08.000 --> 0:38:11.320
<v Speaker 1>really cool. I wish I could give you more shitty stories,

0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:15.920
<v Speaker 1>but he always like he was one of them. So

0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:19.040
<v Speaker 1>we're surrounded by Navy seals, which is kind of like,

0:38:19.560 --> 0:38:23.200
<v Speaker 1>you don't want to do your own stunts. That's cool, uh,

0:38:23.239 --> 0:38:26.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, but John all like always wanted to do

0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:28.560
<v Speaker 1>his own stunts because he didn't want to catch any

0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:29.920
<v Speaker 1>shade from these Navy seals.

0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:33.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh he did come on them a.

0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:38.759
<v Speaker 1>Lot, man, it's like, and some of them were were

0:38:38.840 --> 0:38:41.879
<v Speaker 1>kind of dangerous, like he he he had We've all

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:45.239
<v Speaker 1>been like kind of busted up on that set, but

0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:47.399
<v Speaker 1>he just keeps coming back. He's a tank man. He's

0:38:47.400 --> 0:38:51.359
<v Speaker 1>getting it done. Wow, I can see I've let you down.

0:38:52.760 --> 0:38:55.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean a little bit. I mean a little bit.

0:38:56.120 --> 0:38:58.680
<v Speaker 2>He and I relates to Jack Ryan. This is like,

0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:03.480
<v Speaker 2>this is like such a humble brag story. But I

0:39:03.600 --> 0:39:10.040
<v Speaker 2>was invited to Europe basically to play golf with Prince

0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Albert of Monaco. And I am in this very very fancy,

0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:20.879
<v Speaker 2>nice hotel and there was a yacht thing. I mean,

0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:25.400
<v Speaker 2>it was the whole thing. And my phone goes off.

0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:29.040
<v Speaker 2>It's in the evening. My phone goes off and it's

0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:31.360
<v Speaker 2>a text message from John. I don't remember exactly what

0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:34.360
<v Speaker 2>it was, but my memory is that the text message says,

0:39:34.920 --> 0:39:39.040
<v Speaker 2>what the fuck are you in Monaco? And I was like,

0:39:40.160 --> 0:39:42.839
<v Speaker 2>first of all, how do you know, like what where

0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:47.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm like looking around, and he was there. I don't

0:39:47.360 --> 0:39:49.680
<v Speaker 2>know if you were there. He was there, I think

0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:53.880
<v Speaker 2>to like do some festival or I don't know, but

0:39:54.120 --> 0:39:56.160
<v Speaker 2>it was about Jack Ryan. It was like the opening

0:39:56.200 --> 0:39:58.560
<v Speaker 2>of Jack Ryan or whatever. And he was there. And

0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:01.640
<v Speaker 2>so there you go. We can't see each other in

0:40:01.680 --> 0:40:05.600
<v Speaker 2>the United States, but you know, suddenly we're like sleeping

0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:09.640
<v Speaker 2>next to each other in this hotel in Monaco. You

0:40:09.680 --> 0:40:13.000
<v Speaker 2>guys went Montreal, Columbia, Morocco, France.

0:40:13.120 --> 0:40:15.120
<v Speaker 3>How was that? How was it? I mean it sounds

0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:17.919
<v Speaker 3>like you you did that for the Dilly Dilly too.

0:40:18.040 --> 0:40:18.560
<v Speaker 3>How was that?

0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Traveling around so much on that show? Was it fun

0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:23.720
<v Speaker 2>or was it? Was it a grind?

0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:24.920
<v Speaker 4>It was?

0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:28.680
<v Speaker 1>It was fun. It was an incredible experience, particularly like

0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:31.160
<v Speaker 1>our time in Morocco. One of the coolest things I

0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:33.640
<v Speaker 1>did was I I got to go out to the

0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:36.840
<v Speaker 1>western Sahara and spend the night in the desert on

0:40:36.920 --> 0:40:41.759
<v Speaker 1>the dunes, and that was absolutely an amazing experience. Yeah.

0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:44.319
<v Speaker 1>And the time in Colombia was we were on like

0:40:44.440 --> 0:40:48.680
<v Speaker 1>the National Police training headquarters near a small city called

0:40:48.760 --> 0:40:52.759
<v Speaker 1>Hiradok in kind of central Colombia, about two and a

0:40:52.800 --> 0:40:56.200
<v Speaker 1>half hours away from Bogatah. Yeah, man, it was. It was.

0:40:57.680 --> 0:41:03.440
<v Speaker 1>It was super intense and very challenging, but ultimately a

0:41:03.600 --> 0:41:05.280
<v Speaker 1>really really cool ride.

0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:09.480
<v Speaker 2>You've said that the role reminded you of your own

0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:14.239
<v Speaker 2>inner voice or your family back home. What do you

0:41:14.280 --> 0:41:14.759
<v Speaker 2>mean by that.

0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:20.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm just kind of talking about like dudes you'd come

0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:23.120
<v Speaker 1>across in North Carolina who were just kind of like, man,

0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:26.200
<v Speaker 1>I was. I'm gonna tell you what earlier this week,

0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:28.200
<v Speaker 1>our dog was in the yard and a turkey walked

0:41:28.200 --> 0:41:30.760
<v Speaker 1>across the yard and the dog ran up that turkey

0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:33.920
<v Speaker 1>ended up in the tree. I mean, just that kind

0:41:33.960 --> 0:41:41.919
<v Speaker 1>of stuff, you know. God, Okay, it just is kind

0:41:41.920 --> 0:41:45.920
<v Speaker 1>of like that's what's below all the theater school training,

0:41:46.080 --> 0:41:49.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, Right. So when I went in to read

0:41:49.200 --> 0:41:51.560
<v Speaker 1>for that, I just kind of let it roll, and

0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:55.279
<v Speaker 1>I saw this guy as someone who is actually, if

0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:58.160
<v Speaker 1>you play badass, it kind of makes him seem like,

0:41:58.239 --> 0:42:01.719
<v Speaker 1>maybe he's not such a badass, right. I just I

0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:04.759
<v Speaker 1>just kind of thought that he placing him in a

0:42:05.160 --> 0:42:08.120
<v Speaker 1>sort of real approachable place made him more of a

0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:11.200
<v Speaker 1>real human being. And I guess I guess that that's

0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:12.040
<v Speaker 1>all I was going for.

0:42:30.080 --> 0:42:32.719
<v Speaker 2>I have to mention a show, and I don't know

0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:36.160
<v Speaker 2>that I ever do this when I'm talking to people,

0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:40.600
<v Speaker 2>talk specifically about my feelings, unless it's just straight praise

0:42:40.680 --> 0:42:45.440
<v Speaker 2>of a show. You had a role of Carl Wilkes

0:42:45.600 --> 0:42:50.080
<v Speaker 2>in Castle Rock. I thought that show was so freaking interesting.

0:42:50.280 --> 0:42:52.920
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was flawed. I'm gonna be honest with you,

0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:55.799
<v Speaker 2>I thought a lot of it didn't work. It's so

0:42:56.000 --> 0:42:58.560
<v Speaker 2>complicated that it's hard to even explain what it is

0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:04.560
<v Speaker 2>except it's basically Stephen King's mind and his characters throughout

0:43:04.920 --> 0:43:11.719
<v Speaker 2>the history of his writings existing semi simultaneously in the

0:43:11.760 --> 0:43:19.280
<v Speaker 2>same town. John plays Annie Wilkes's father, Annie Wilkes, of course,

0:43:19.440 --> 0:43:25.080
<v Speaker 2>going on to be the villain the lead of Misery

0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:28.040
<v Speaker 2>played by Kathy Bates, who appeared in the office Boom.

0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:32.719
<v Speaker 2>There's my association. F. John Krasinsky. F John Krasinsky, You

0:43:32.960 --> 0:43:38.520
<v Speaker 2>played the father of Annie Wilkes that Kathy Bates won

0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:41.799
<v Speaker 2>an oscar for. Talk to me about the experience that

0:43:41.840 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 2>you had on that show. Was Stephen King around?

0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:49.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure he was in touch with the producers and

0:43:49.640 --> 0:43:50.920
<v Speaker 1>the writers and everyone.

0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:54.200
<v Speaker 3>He was not generals, he was not Okay, good, okay.

0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:56.360
<v Speaker 3>It makes me feel better that I wasn't involved.

0:43:58.920 --> 0:44:03.040
<v Speaker 1>We were in Massachusetts. That filmed in Massachusetts, which was

0:44:03.920 --> 0:44:05.759
<v Speaker 1>beautiful when we were there. We were about an hour

0:44:06.000 --> 0:44:10.120
<v Speaker 1>west of Boston. And Lizzie Kaplan who played Annie, and

0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Ruby Cruz who played young Annie in the in the flashbacks,

0:44:13.880 --> 0:44:19.320
<v Speaker 1>both just phenomenal talents. Lizzie Man, she was just so committed,

0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:24.640
<v Speaker 1>so professional. It was a super intense experience. Particularly I

0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:27.720
<v Speaker 1>guess it is it a spoiler if I talk about

0:44:28.000 --> 0:44:29.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of the final scene.

0:44:29.320 --> 0:44:33.839
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I did, I didn't know. No, it's been

0:44:34.000 --> 0:44:36.200
<v Speaker 2>four years. No, it's not a spoiler, go ahead.

0:44:37.000 --> 0:44:42.120
<v Speaker 1>They the dad is pushed down some stairs.

0:44:41.920 --> 0:44:45.440
<v Speaker 3>Flight of stairs. You did. That's not yourself, like John, right,

0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:46.640
<v Speaker 3>it's not myself.

0:44:46.719 --> 0:44:53.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And I was impaled on a banister and they

0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:57.719
<v Speaker 1>run a they run a hose of blood kind of

0:44:57.800 --> 0:45:01.200
<v Speaker 1>up your shirt and next to your face, and that's

0:45:01.440 --> 0:45:04.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of going off while you play this scene with

0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:08.160
<v Speaker 1>your daughter. And it was, man, it was that was

0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:11.320
<v Speaker 1>super intense, but actually a lot of fun and really

0:45:11.360 --> 0:45:16.120
<v Speaker 1>really disturbing, really disturbing. It's a lot of fun to

0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:20.720
<v Speaker 1>get to do harror every now and then to scare

0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:26.160
<v Speaker 1>people and to dig into the things that people are

0:45:26.400 --> 0:45:28.719
<v Speaker 1>I was going to say triggered by, but that's kind

0:45:28.719 --> 0:45:30.640
<v Speaker 1>of a loaded term.

0:45:31.040 --> 0:45:31.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:35.200
<v Speaker 2>I just thought that the series was super fascinating and

0:45:35.239 --> 0:45:37.640
<v Speaker 2>it's it's good to hear that it was a good

0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:41.759
<v Speaker 2>experience and also not surprising that it was. That it

0:45:41.840 --> 0:45:45.960
<v Speaker 2>was difficult, an amazing cast, and yeah, if you haven't

0:45:46.040 --> 0:45:48.960
<v Speaker 2>checked it out, it's worth checking out. Got to talk

0:45:49.000 --> 0:45:54.360
<v Speaker 2>to you about Dope Sick, The show of twenty twenty

0:45:54.400 --> 0:46:01.960
<v Speaker 2>one twenty twenty two for sure, Randy Ramsayer, Ramsayer, Ramsire,

0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:08.240
<v Speaker 2>Ramsire whatever, Randy, uh that was? This is my reference

0:46:08.280 --> 0:46:12.960
<v Speaker 2>to the playing a cop in western North Carolina, close

0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:16.680
<v Speaker 2>but not quite. Talk to me about your experience working

0:46:16.960 --> 0:46:23.160
<v Speaker 2>on Dope Sick and interestingly, an incredibly dark I loved it,

0:46:23.920 --> 0:46:29.480
<v Speaker 2>incredibly dark show. Did you have a positive experience working

0:46:29.520 --> 0:46:31.960
<v Speaker 2>on Dope Sick and did you expect that to be

0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:35.200
<v Speaker 2>well the show of the last year or so.

0:46:36.000 --> 0:46:39.280
<v Speaker 1>I absolutely had a positive experience on it. I learned

0:46:39.680 --> 0:46:42.360
<v Speaker 1>so much. You know that that's one of the conversations

0:46:42.360 --> 0:46:44.880
<v Speaker 1>that has been on a slow boil in this country

0:46:44.920 --> 0:46:49.879
<v Speaker 1>for over twenty years, to reading OxyContin and all these

0:46:49.920 --> 0:46:55.600
<v Speaker 1>things going on, and we've all known that we've been

0:46:55.920 --> 0:46:59.239
<v Speaker 1>kind of fed a line on this, these prescription painkillers.

0:46:59.280 --> 0:47:04.480
<v Speaker 1>But it wasn't until shows and documentarians really started to

0:47:04.600 --> 0:47:07.880
<v Speaker 1>do a kind of a deep dive into the connection

0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:13.320
<v Speaker 1>between this one company and the way that these drugs

0:47:13.320 --> 0:47:17.200
<v Speaker 1>are sort of insinuated into the healing process when you

0:47:17.280 --> 0:47:22.120
<v Speaker 1>get hospitalized, and kind of making all these connections and

0:47:22.160 --> 0:47:26.879
<v Speaker 1>finding out that certain aspects of the testing going through

0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:29.879
<v Speaker 1>the FDA were all kind of fiddled with. It woke

0:47:29.960 --> 0:47:32.359
<v Speaker 1>me up to a lot of ways that we can

0:47:32.920 --> 0:47:35.840
<v Speaker 1>certainly do better. Danny Strong, who was the writer and

0:47:35.840 --> 0:47:39.839
<v Speaker 1>the producer, was a constant. It was like walking around

0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:42.799
<v Speaker 1>with an encyclopedia. This guy had so much knowledge in

0:47:42.800 --> 0:47:44.240
<v Speaker 1>his brain the whole time.

0:47:45.719 --> 0:47:46.400
<v Speaker 3>But also.

0:47:47.760 --> 0:47:50.880
<v Speaker 1>It was kind of like that situation where the darker

0:47:51.000 --> 0:47:55.640
<v Speaker 1>the subject matter, the more levity there is offscreen because

0:47:56.239 --> 0:47:59.560
<v Speaker 1>the people telling those stories have to find a balance

0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:03.640
<v Speaker 1>or you just absolutely go insane. Yeah, you know, it's

0:48:03.680 --> 0:48:06.719
<v Speaker 1>it's a very different path for an actor on a

0:48:06.719 --> 0:48:11.400
<v Speaker 1>set like that. And the cool thing is casts and

0:48:12.000 --> 0:48:15.360
<v Speaker 1>the producers sort of understand what it is that you

0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:19.719
<v Speaker 1>have to find within yourself on a given day, and

0:48:19.760 --> 0:48:21.759
<v Speaker 1>they will give you space to find it, and they

0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:23.600
<v Speaker 1>will they will kind of try and find a way

0:48:23.600 --> 0:48:26.920
<v Speaker 1>to be supportive of you. But it was we shot

0:48:26.960 --> 0:48:30.600
<v Speaker 1>that and rich In and around Richmond, Virginia. It was

0:48:30.640 --> 0:48:33.000
<v Speaker 1>a lovely time to get to work in. It was.

0:48:33.400 --> 0:48:37.239
<v Speaker 1>It was a great experience. And the first couple episodes

0:48:37.239 --> 0:48:39.799
<v Speaker 1>were directed, of course by Barry Levinson, which was a

0:48:39.840 --> 0:48:41.440
<v Speaker 1>real honor to get to work with him. He was

0:48:41.440 --> 0:48:44.080
<v Speaker 1>one of he's one of these directors who knows exactly

0:48:44.560 --> 0:48:46.399
<v Speaker 1>what's going in the final cut. He knows what he's

0:48:46.400 --> 0:48:50.200
<v Speaker 1>going to use, so there's a he's very efficient and

0:48:50.400 --> 0:48:53.520
<v Speaker 1>very direct in getting what he needed from the actors.

0:48:53.680 --> 0:48:55.640
<v Speaker 1>Was wonderful to get to work with all those.

0:48:55.440 --> 0:48:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Guys, being from North Carolina now living back in North Carolina,

0:49:00.440 --> 0:49:04.719
<v Speaker 2>that is a state and an area there that has

0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:09.640
<v Speaker 2>suffered a lot from the opioid epidemic. Did you have

0:49:09.680 --> 0:49:13.000
<v Speaker 2>a personal connection to this because of that?

0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:14.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:49:14.080 --> 0:49:16.720
<v Speaker 1>There are suboxym clinics, which is one of the drugs

0:49:16.760 --> 0:49:20.040
<v Speaker 1>that they try and do replacement therapy with all over

0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:22.239
<v Speaker 1>the place here, and I think that that was one

0:49:22.280 --> 0:49:25.440
<v Speaker 1>of the things that I learned is that cold turkey

0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:31.200
<v Speaker 1>and prayer doesn't work all that well. Unfortunately with people

0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:35.520
<v Speaker 1>who are addicted to drugs like this. You're lucky if

0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:37.439
<v Speaker 1>you get off it and stay off it at all.

0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:42.040
<v Speaker 1>A lot of times, the more humane way to stop

0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:45.200
<v Speaker 1>using it is to slowly step down with a replacement

0:49:45.719 --> 0:49:50.560
<v Speaker 1>And certainly it has touched these addictions. Have touched people

0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:54.400
<v Speaker 1>in my family, They've touched so many people in America,

0:49:54.480 --> 0:49:57.880
<v Speaker 1>and it's something that it's like a dirty, little household

0:49:57.960 --> 0:50:02.040
<v Speaker 1>secret for so many people. And that was one of

0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:05.800
<v Speaker 1>the things that I was eager to tackle was how

0:50:06.000 --> 0:50:12.200
<v Speaker 1>are we going to portray people who become addicted to

0:50:12.320 --> 0:50:15.320
<v Speaker 1>this drug? You know, if it's a high school football

0:50:15.760 --> 0:50:18.720
<v Speaker 1>football player who suffers a knee injury and is given

0:50:19.000 --> 0:50:24.280
<v Speaker 1>OxyContin and then four months later their life is ruined

0:50:24.320 --> 0:50:26.319
<v Speaker 1>and they have to find something cheaper, so they switch

0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:29.600
<v Speaker 1>to heroin. Generally, we in this country, I think, have

0:50:29.719 --> 0:50:34.400
<v Speaker 1>thought of people who become drug addicts as morally weak

0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:38.920
<v Speaker 1>for people who have suffered, and the reality is often

0:50:39.000 --> 0:50:42.080
<v Speaker 1>so much more nuanced than that. And so I think

0:50:42.120 --> 0:50:44.600
<v Speaker 1>one of the things that the show really got right

0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:48.960
<v Speaker 1>was how you can become addicted to some of these

0:50:49.040 --> 0:50:54.640
<v Speaker 1>drugs when the situation is constructed and architected in such

0:50:54.680 --> 0:50:58.160
<v Speaker 1>a way to make people become addicted through no fault

0:50:58.160 --> 0:51:01.040
<v Speaker 1>of your own. And I feel like that that was

0:51:01.040 --> 0:51:02.799
<v Speaker 1>the thing that the show got right, because that was

0:51:03.120 --> 0:51:05.000
<v Speaker 1>one of the comments that we got over and over

0:51:05.040 --> 0:51:07.680
<v Speaker 1>and over again was oh, man, my aunt suffered this,

0:51:07.800 --> 0:51:11.680
<v Speaker 1>my grandmother, my son, my daughter, I have I'm still

0:51:11.680 --> 0:51:14.719
<v Speaker 1>working on this, you know. And then I have had

0:51:14.840 --> 0:51:18.400
<v Speaker 1>people friends and family who have, you know, kind of

0:51:18.400 --> 0:51:21.520
<v Speaker 1>casually over the years asked about, yeah, if you have

0:51:21.560 --> 0:51:23.879
<v Speaker 1>any pills or because I'm suffering this and I'm having

0:51:23.880 --> 0:51:25.880
<v Speaker 1>a hard time getting blah blah blah. That's what that is.

0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:29.960
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's.

0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:33.239
<v Speaker 1>Right, and I know, you know. The other argument is

0:51:33.920 --> 0:51:37.719
<v Speaker 1>when shows go after oxyconton like this, you're taking a

0:51:37.840 --> 0:51:41.160
<v Speaker 1>very valuable tool out of the doctor's hands. And I

0:51:41.200 --> 0:51:43.840
<v Speaker 1>don't think that was what the show was saying. I

0:51:43.880 --> 0:51:46.080
<v Speaker 1>think what the show was saying was like, when you're

0:51:46.920 --> 0:51:50.640
<v Speaker 1>dealing with end of life pain or when you are

0:51:50.719 --> 0:51:54.360
<v Speaker 1>under a doctor's direct supervision, this is an absolutely a

0:51:54.400 --> 0:51:59.280
<v Speaker 1>valuable tool, but it's not a valuable tool for myriad

0:51:59.320 --> 0:52:01.960
<v Speaker 1>other inies that one can sustain and live with and

0:52:02.120 --> 0:52:06.040
<v Speaker 1>perhaps manage with different classes of drugs that are not

0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:08.880
<v Speaker 1>addictive in the same way that an opioid is.

0:52:09.160 --> 0:52:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was certainly my takeaway that really the issue

0:52:12.880 --> 0:52:16.840
<v Speaker 2>was the lack of transparency with how addictive it was,

0:52:17.640 --> 0:52:23.040
<v Speaker 2>and then potentially the over prescribing, which triggered that faster

0:52:23.160 --> 0:52:24.080
<v Speaker 2>and faster.

0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:27.680
<v Speaker 1>Walking into a hospital, you know, with an injury or

0:52:27.680 --> 0:52:31.000
<v Speaker 1>some severe pain and being shown you know, the smiley

0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:34.120
<v Speaker 1>face graph from smiley to frownie, where are you on

0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:36.719
<v Speaker 1>this spectrum? And learning that that was kind of something

0:52:36.800 --> 0:52:40.759
<v Speaker 1>that was constructed to make pain treatment a conversation that's

0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:44.200
<v Speaker 1>at the front and center of conversations with doctors when

0:52:44.239 --> 0:52:47.880
<v Speaker 1>you're healing and healing, and obviously dealing with pain is

0:52:48.200 --> 0:52:51.680
<v Speaker 1>horrible and something that needs to be done empathetically. But

0:52:51.960 --> 0:52:55.279
<v Speaker 1>when you have a company that stands to gain billions

0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:59.200
<v Speaker 1>of dollars kind of wagging the federal government around or

0:52:59.239 --> 0:53:02.080
<v Speaker 1>its agencies, that's something that we need to look very

0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:05.680
<v Speaker 1>very closely at to make sure that, you know, ideally

0:53:07.280 --> 0:53:10.040
<v Speaker 1>the government exists to make sure that we are kept

0:53:10.080 --> 0:53:14.280
<v Speaker 1>safe from the crueler intentions of corporate entities.

0:53:15.200 --> 0:53:19.200
<v Speaker 3>Did you meet Randyr Yeah, he.

0:53:19.680 --> 0:53:22.120
<v Speaker 1>Got to Zoom and then he came to an event

0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:24.520
<v Speaker 1>I think in Washington. Got to meet him there, and

0:53:24.560 --> 0:53:28.480
<v Speaker 1>he's a super laid back, cool guy, you know. And

0:53:28.480 --> 0:53:32.480
<v Speaker 1>these guys were like bulldogs, like they were immovable. There

0:53:32.560 --> 0:53:35.640
<v Speaker 1>was they weren't going anywhere once they started with this,

0:53:36.040 --> 0:53:38.920
<v Speaker 1>and that's kind of the cool thing. It's like, you

0:53:39.000 --> 0:53:42.920
<v Speaker 1>may think of us as small town and therefore you

0:53:42.960 --> 0:53:46.120
<v Speaker 1>may not take us seriously, but we take this job

0:53:46.280 --> 0:53:49.319
<v Speaker 1>very seriously. We work on the taxpayer's dime and we're

0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:52.719
<v Speaker 1>not going to stop until justice has been served. Yeah,

0:53:52.719 --> 0:53:57.840
<v Speaker 1>the really compelling story him in Rick Mountcastle just out.

0:53:58.239 --> 0:54:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Not that you need any more, but John, but Waco

0:54:02.880 --> 0:54:08.440
<v Speaker 2>the aftermath. I'm very, very interested in this. When I

0:54:08.920 --> 0:54:16.480
<v Speaker 2>went to SMU, this is when Waco happened. From the

0:54:16.600 --> 0:54:22.040
<v Speaker 2>public television in my dorm room in college, we watched it,

0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:26.280
<v Speaker 2>and of course it's I don't know, sixty eighty miles

0:54:26.320 --> 0:54:29.920
<v Speaker 2>down the road this was all taking place, So I

0:54:30.000 --> 0:54:35.200
<v Speaker 2>feel this weird connection to it. I don't want you

0:54:35.400 --> 0:54:38.680
<v Speaker 2>to give any spoilers, but what was that like going

0:54:38.719 --> 0:54:43.359
<v Speaker 2>back to yet another true story, a tragedy and exploring

0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:45.719
<v Speaker 2>the aftermath of that.

0:54:46.960 --> 0:54:52.279
<v Speaker 1>So Clive Doyle, who I portray in the show, was

0:54:52.320 --> 0:54:56.000
<v Speaker 1>a branch Davidian I remember that time too. I was

0:54:57.239 --> 0:55:01.520
<v Speaker 1>fifteen turning sixteen that April. Yeah, I remember, probably like

0:55:01.600 --> 0:55:03.680
<v Speaker 1>you do. There were you know, it was like three

0:55:03.800 --> 0:55:07.680
<v Speaker 1>or four network news sources that were all kind of

0:55:08.200 --> 0:55:12.440
<v Speaker 1>giving the same information on the standoff, and the idea

0:55:12.560 --> 0:55:15.959
<v Speaker 1>was basically, these people were insane and they were making

0:55:16.040 --> 0:55:19.920
<v Speaker 1>the situation worse and worse, and the government was just

0:55:19.960 --> 0:55:21.440
<v Speaker 1>trying to get the kids out of there and keep

0:55:21.480 --> 0:55:27.080
<v Speaker 1>everybody safe. And I think that's all generally accurate. However,

0:55:27.200 --> 0:55:32.600
<v Speaker 1>there's so much more that went into pushing the government

0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:39.200
<v Speaker 1>into the standoff, and that kept this group of ultra

0:55:39.400 --> 0:55:42.760
<v Speaker 1>orthodox in the middle of the desert in Texas from

0:55:42.800 --> 0:55:46.080
<v Speaker 1>complying and coming out of the buildings without giving anything away.

0:55:46.640 --> 0:55:51.480
<v Speaker 1>Clive immigrated to the United States in the early sixties

0:55:51.719 --> 0:55:56.319
<v Speaker 1>with his mom from Australia and had been at the

0:55:56.400 --> 0:56:00.160
<v Speaker 1>compound for thirty years already when the fire happened. So

0:56:00.400 --> 0:56:02.360
<v Speaker 1>I thought at the time that this was kind of

0:56:02.400 --> 0:56:05.120
<v Speaker 1>a new group of people, and he had moved, and

0:56:05.440 --> 0:56:08.120
<v Speaker 1>they were into guns, and they were marrying girls off

0:56:08.239 --> 0:56:11.799
<v Speaker 1>very young, and this community had been there for many

0:56:11.880 --> 0:56:16.239
<v Speaker 1>decades even prior to Clive arriving in the sixties. From

0:56:16.239 --> 0:56:21.960
<v Speaker 1>a technical aspect, they wanted an actor who could find

0:56:22.000 --> 0:56:26.640
<v Speaker 1>a way to also weave in a Texas dialect to

0:56:26.719 --> 0:56:30.399
<v Speaker 1>this sort of soft Australian accent. So that was kind

0:56:30.400 --> 0:56:34.080
<v Speaker 1>of a fun challenge to try and tackle. But yeah,

0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Clive was I think a tantamount to a monk, and

0:56:39.000 --> 0:56:43.200
<v Speaker 1>he also inhabited a world where miracles were all over

0:56:43.239 --> 0:56:46.600
<v Speaker 1>the place. And this guy sitting next to him who

0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:49.719
<v Speaker 1>begins as Vernon Howell and then kind of chooses the

0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:53.479
<v Speaker 1>name David Koresh is to this group of people, he's

0:56:53.560 --> 0:56:57.960
<v Speaker 1>the embodiment of God. He literally is the lamb they believe,

0:56:58.320 --> 0:57:01.960
<v Speaker 1>and at a certain point, Koresh tells this group of people,

0:57:02.000 --> 0:57:04.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm the only one who can have sex with anyone.

0:57:05.920 --> 0:57:08.840
<v Speaker 1>So if you're married and I choose your wife, you

0:57:08.960 --> 0:57:12.960
<v Speaker 1>have to be okay with that. And stunning how many

0:57:13.000 --> 0:57:17.440
<v Speaker 1>of them stayed so to kind of study this against

0:57:17.440 --> 0:57:19.840
<v Speaker 1>the backdrop of everything the federal government was doing at

0:57:19.840 --> 0:57:24.640
<v Speaker 1>the time. It's an incredibly messy story from so many angles.

0:57:25.200 --> 0:57:28.720
<v Speaker 1>I think that the takeaway for the federal government was

0:57:29.800 --> 0:57:33.920
<v Speaker 1>if you back people with extreme beliefs into a corner,

0:57:35.360 --> 0:57:39.240
<v Speaker 1>it's likely that they will do extreme things. Technically, what

0:57:39.280 --> 0:57:42.320
<v Speaker 1>that means is that the government ends up acting more

0:57:42.320 --> 0:57:46.400
<v Speaker 1>empathetically when there are guns involved. Then that's a good thing.

0:57:46.880 --> 0:57:49.960
<v Speaker 1>As an actor, I want more empathy everywhere. I want

0:57:50.040 --> 0:57:55.160
<v Speaker 1>us to strive to understand the worldview of those that

0:57:55.200 --> 0:57:57.560
<v Speaker 1>we don't agree with. We have to make the effort

0:57:57.680 --> 0:58:02.360
<v Speaker 1>to understand which is distinct and separate from agreeing with them.

0:58:02.800 --> 0:58:03.280
<v Speaker 3>That's right.

0:58:03.320 --> 0:58:04.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know that we're all going to ever agree

0:58:04.960 --> 0:58:07.760
<v Speaker 1>on everything. I don't think that's realistic, but we have

0:58:07.840 --> 0:58:11.800
<v Speaker 1>to spend time trying to understand. And that's why I

0:58:11.800 --> 0:58:15.520
<v Speaker 1>think this show is important is it's a continued meditation

0:58:15.680 --> 0:58:19.720
<v Speaker 1>on what went wrong, which means producers and a network

0:58:19.760 --> 0:58:24.320
<v Speaker 1>are sitting around trying to understand how we got to

0:58:24.440 --> 0:58:28.520
<v Speaker 1>that place then and the doubtles. The producers and directors

0:58:28.560 --> 0:58:30.680
<v Speaker 1>and creators of the show are drawing a bright red

0:58:30.760 --> 0:58:35.480
<v Speaker 1>line from that event to Charlottesville and to January sixth.

0:58:36.880 --> 0:58:43.280
<v Speaker 2>I think one, you're awesome and to the point that

0:58:43.360 --> 0:58:49.520
<v Speaker 2>you bring up there is so important on both sides

0:58:50.480 --> 0:58:55.400
<v Speaker 2>of this debate or war that's raging in the United States,

0:58:55.640 --> 0:58:59.840
<v Speaker 2>and not having any empathy for the other side, whatever

0:59:00.120 --> 0:59:06.520
<v Speaker 2>side that is, and behaving toward them in a harsh

0:59:06.600 --> 0:59:11.080
<v Speaker 2>and unsympathetic and unempathetic way is only going to make

0:59:11.240 --> 0:59:15.880
<v Speaker 2>them strengthen their resolve. As you said, that's incredible because yeah,

0:59:15.880 --> 0:59:17.800
<v Speaker 2>we're still we're still trying to figure it out.

0:59:18.240 --> 0:59:18.479
<v Speaker 3>God.

0:59:18.560 --> 0:59:21.440
<v Speaker 2>And side note, I don't even know. I mean, I

0:59:21.600 --> 0:59:24.880
<v Speaker 2>watched this other show. Did they talk about that in

0:59:24.880 --> 0:59:28.680
<v Speaker 2>the waycoat that had been going on that long in

0:59:28.720 --> 0:59:31.320
<v Speaker 2>the sixth in the sixties, that had been going on.

0:59:31.880 --> 0:59:34.120
<v Speaker 3>I miss that. I had no idea.

0:59:34.680 --> 0:59:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Lois So Lois Rodin, Jay Smith Cameron wonderful Actors.

0:59:39.160 --> 0:59:42.880
<v Speaker 1>He plays Lois Rodin in this season. She is the

0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:48.280
<v Speaker 1>prophet of the era and she sort of inherited being

0:59:48.320 --> 0:59:52.720
<v Speaker 1>the prophet from her husband, who inherited it from another guy.

0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:56.360
<v Speaker 1>So it's a shootoff of a shootoff of the Seventh

0:59:56.400 --> 0:59:57.880
<v Speaker 1>day Adventist denoment.

0:59:57.920 --> 1:00:00.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and you know.

1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:01.920
<v Speaker 1>It was the kind of thing where and again, I

1:00:03.240 --> 1:00:05.760
<v Speaker 1>want to talk about it without demeaning a group of

1:00:05.800 --> 1:00:09.240
<v Speaker 1>people's beliefs. So it would be, you know, the idea

1:00:09.280 --> 1:00:13.000
<v Speaker 1>that the it's all going to end on this day,

1:00:13.600 --> 1:00:17.000
<v Speaker 1>and then that day comes and goes, and then I've

1:00:17.000 --> 1:00:20.080
<v Speaker 1>gotten another prophecy, and now I was wrong, It's actually

1:00:20.080 --> 1:00:21.920
<v Speaker 1>going to end on this day, and so forth and

1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:25.920
<v Speaker 1>so on, and the Branch Davidians it was known by

1:00:25.960 --> 1:00:29.440
<v Speaker 1>the federal government at this point that their theology was

1:00:29.480 --> 1:00:31.840
<v Speaker 1>that the world was going to end in fire, and

1:00:32.240 --> 1:00:37.760
<v Speaker 1>they had listening devices in the compound and apparently had

1:00:37.840 --> 1:00:41.720
<v Speaker 1>audio of the Branch Davidians planning to set fire in

1:00:41.800 --> 1:00:45.520
<v Speaker 1>various locations if the federal government ever breached the walls.

1:00:45.760 --> 1:00:49.880
<v Speaker 1>They knew that, you know, the tear gas they were

1:00:49.880 --> 1:00:52.400
<v Speaker 1>going to use was highly flammable, and they also knew

1:00:52.400 --> 1:00:54.960
<v Speaker 1>that the branch Davidians had been talking about setting the fire.

1:00:55.920 --> 1:00:59.560
<v Speaker 1>So it does become very very messy. So two things

1:00:59.600 --> 1:01:02.880
<v Speaker 1>that I think about on this show are like, David

1:01:02.960 --> 1:01:06.160
<v Speaker 1>Koresh committed suicide by cop and he took eighty souls

1:01:06.160 --> 1:01:10.040
<v Speaker 1>with him, and the federal government for its part, was

1:01:10.120 --> 1:01:12.840
<v Speaker 1>over eager to be used in that regard for a

1:01:12.960 --> 1:01:15.919
<v Speaker 1>number of reasons. Also, there were three I believe three

1:01:15.920 --> 1:01:18.680
<v Speaker 1>government entities on the ground at Waco. You had the ATF,

1:01:18.720 --> 1:01:22.959
<v Speaker 1>which started the raid and called cameras there to film

1:01:23.000 --> 1:01:25.720
<v Speaker 1>it because they were facing an existential crisis in Congress

1:01:26.000 --> 1:01:30.480
<v Speaker 1>they needed to televise win. So this this standoff ultimately

1:01:30.480 --> 1:01:33.480
<v Speaker 1>becomes a debacle in a tragedy. But when four ATF

1:01:33.560 --> 1:01:36.800
<v Speaker 1>agents are killed and the FBI shows up, now you

1:01:36.880 --> 1:01:40.000
<v Speaker 1>have two forces who are not actually working in concert,

1:01:40.520 --> 1:01:42.600
<v Speaker 1>and then you have the hostage rescue team who has

1:01:42.640 --> 1:01:45.440
<v Speaker 1>its own goals. So there was no general sort of

1:01:45.880 --> 1:01:49.520
<v Speaker 1>telling everybody what the next step needs to be. Yeah,

1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:50.720
<v Speaker 1>and tragedy ensues.

1:01:51.520 --> 1:01:52.040
<v Speaker 3>Fascinating.

1:01:52.400 --> 1:01:54.640
<v Speaker 1>It was something that we we spent a lot of

1:01:54.680 --> 1:01:57.600
<v Speaker 1>time learning about and studying about, and I don't want

1:01:58.480 --> 1:02:02.080
<v Speaker 1>oral government is one blame or that the branch Davidians

1:02:02.080 --> 1:02:04.280
<v Speaker 1>are one hundred percent to blame, but it is worthy

1:02:04.280 --> 1:02:04.720
<v Speaker 1>of study.

1:02:05.360 --> 1:02:06.800
<v Speaker 3>Well that's you know.

1:02:06.960 --> 1:02:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Where great art lives, as far as I'm concerned, is

1:02:09.760 --> 1:02:14.000
<v Speaker 2>in the question, not in the answers. So exploring all

1:02:14.040 --> 1:02:19.720
<v Speaker 2>sides is valuable and ultimately hopefully changes things for the future. John,

1:02:20.240 --> 1:02:23.880
<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for your time you Knox goes away.

1:02:24.120 --> 1:02:27.320
<v Speaker 2>I hear you've just wrapped principal photography on that. Another

1:02:27.400 --> 1:02:32.120
<v Speaker 2>Michael Keaton adventure. Good luck with that. I'm a big

1:02:32.160 --> 1:02:35.600
<v Speaker 2>fan of his and a huge fan of yours as well.

1:02:35.720 --> 1:02:38.840
<v Speaker 3>I will be watching whatever you do next.

1:02:40.320 --> 1:02:42.280
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for this time together. This has been a

1:02:42.320 --> 1:02:42.720
<v Speaker 1>lot of fun.

1:02:42.760 --> 1:02:43.040
<v Speaker 3>Man.

1:02:43.600 --> 1:02:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you so much, John, I appreciate it. Good luck.

1:02:46.840 --> 1:02:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Thank you sir, take care.

1:03:00.680 --> 1:03:02.680
<v Speaker 2>That was so much fun. Thank you so much for

1:03:02.720 --> 1:03:05.520
<v Speaker 2>hopping on after talking to you. Let me just say

1:03:05.600 --> 1:03:09.880
<v Speaker 2>I am so excited to watch Waco the Aftermath. It

1:03:09.920 --> 1:03:13.680
<v Speaker 2>was a story I followed very closely years ago, but

1:03:13.760 --> 1:03:19.320
<v Speaker 2>to hear the residences from today's world, well, well I

1:03:19.400 --> 1:03:22.200
<v Speaker 2>just can't wait. Listeners, make sure to look out for

1:03:22.280 --> 1:03:23.360
<v Speaker 2>John in Waco.

1:03:23.640 --> 1:03:24.840
<v Speaker 3>He is going to be awesome.

1:03:25.120 --> 1:03:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I know it, and of course make sure to leave

1:03:27.720 --> 1:03:31.400
<v Speaker 2>a comment on our Instagram. Tune into next week for

1:03:31.880 --> 1:03:35.320
<v Speaker 2>Off the Beat, Same time, same place, same me.

1:03:36.400 --> 1:03:37.120
<v Speaker 3>We'll see you then.

1:03:45.960 --> 1:03:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Off the Beat is hosted and executive produced by me

1:03:49.280 --> 1:03:53.760
<v Speaker 2>Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Ling Lee. Our senior

1:03:53.800 --> 1:03:58.400
<v Speaker 2>producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris,

1:03:58.480 --> 1:04:02.960
<v Speaker 2>and Emily Carr. Talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and

1:04:03.080 --> 1:04:07.280
<v Speaker 2>our intern is Sammy Katz. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,

1:04:07.640 --> 1:04:10.680
<v Speaker 2>performed by the one and only Creed Bratton,