Speaker 1: Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda Land Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to Criminalia,
Speaker 1: when we explore the intersection of history and true crime.
Speaker 1: I'm Maria tre Marquis and I'm Holly Fry And in
Speaker 1: today's episode, we're going to look at the life of
Speaker 1: Catherine de Medici, who became one of the most well
Speaker 1: known or maybe just most notorious queens when she became
Speaker 1: Queen of France in the hundreds. And unlike some of
Speaker 1: our other poisoners who may have been new to you,
Speaker 1: you know her name. And that is because Katherine lad
Speaker 1: a very big life and there is a lot in
Speaker 1: the historical record about her. Really, right, we'll unpack that problem.
Speaker 1: Katherine may or may not have introduced the artichoke to France,
Speaker 1: and she may have been at least partly responsible for
Speaker 1: starting the French Wars of Religion. Nothing big, really, um.
Speaker 1: She's also famous for being the mother of three three kings.
Speaker 1: Our primary focus though, today is to untangle whether or
Speaker 1: not the accusations that Catherine was a homicidal poisoner actually
Speaker 1: had any truth to them, or even were at least plausible.
Speaker 1: Catherine may have been a Queen of France, but she
Speaker 1: was not actually born in France. She was born in Italy,
Speaker 1: in Florence in April of fifteen nineteen. Her mother was
Speaker 1: Madeline de la Tour du Verne, cousin of Francis, the
Speaker 1: first King of France, and her father was Lorenzo de Medici,
Speaker 1: who was the ruler of Florence and had several other titles,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day he was the
Speaker 1: ruler of Florence. She Kather herself actually was said to
Speaker 1: have exhibited the same physical traits as her father and
Speaker 1: the rest of the Medici clan um. And we quote
Speaker 1: this from a Venetian envoy um right around the time
Speaker 1: of Catherine's forty birthday. She was described as her mouth
Speaker 1: is too large and her eyes too prominent and colorless
Speaker 1: for beauty. I dream that one day someone will write
Speaker 1: that about me. Your eyes, Holly, are too colorless. I'm
Speaker 1: dead inside. Um. I think that's where it comes from. Right,
Speaker 1: She's got the shark, guys. But this is not the
Speaker 1: only way that she was described. She was also described
Speaker 1: as quote a very distinguished looking woman with a shapely figure,
Speaker 1: a beautiful skin, and exquisitely shaped hands. So this is
Speaker 1: clearly an eye of the beholder situation, right, I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean if you like hands, like she's got the
Speaker 1: dead eyes and gorgeous hands. Uh, we'll see. I mean
Speaker 1: like hands do come up a little bit later. So, um,
Speaker 1: she was she's from a famous political family. The Medicis
Speaker 1: were UMU the ruling wealthy class of Tuscany in Italy,
Speaker 1: which was they're also known as the House of Medici,
Speaker 1: and they came to their wealth and political power long
Speaker 1: before Catherine. It was back in the thirteenth century and
Speaker 1: um primarily they came to it through banking and commerce.
Speaker 1: But if you know the Medicis, but probably banking is
Speaker 1: not the first thing to do. No, no, not at all.
Speaker 1: It's like a really good interest rates um three point two.
Speaker 1: They went on to become patrons of Leonardo da Vinci, Barticelli, Michelangelo,
Speaker 1: and Galileo, among other names that you would recognize today.
Speaker 1: They were considered the first family of the Italian Renaissance. UM.
Speaker 1: But the Catherine herself, her story is it begins tragically.
Speaker 1: So she was orphaned when she was less than a
Speaker 1: month old. So when she was two weeks old, her
Speaker 1: mother died. Her father's death, which was probably the result
Speaker 1: of syphilism, happened very quickly after her mother, and she
Speaker 1: spent her childhood being cared for and educated in convents,
Speaker 1: and then in fifteen thirty three, when she was fourteen,
Speaker 1: Catherine's uncle, who happened to be Pope Clement the seventh,
Speaker 1: arranged for her to marry the Duke of Orleans, calling
Speaker 1: it the greatest match in the world, in the world,
Speaker 1: I mean, I like how he builds it, like my
Speaker 1: wrestling matches. I thought I was like like w W
Speaker 1: E or like like a monster truck race. He's like Sundays,
Speaker 1: there's like a monster truck marriage thing that we can
Speaker 1: put together. Here, everybody's got a little flag, you know. Um. So,
Speaker 1: the duke who would become her husband, he was the
Speaker 1: second son of the King of France UM and he
Speaker 1: despite being the second son, he did go on to
Speaker 1: be crowned um. He was crowned Henry the Second in
Speaker 1: March of Fife. So during her first ten years of marriage,
Speaker 1: Catherine lived with the fact that Henry the Second had
Speaker 1: a mistress, Dianne de Poitiers, who had been his caregiver
Speaker 1: during his childhood. That's got some baggage. We're not unpacking today,
Speaker 1: and we're just gonna let that stay where it is. Oh, Henry, right,
Speaker 1: Deanne had all of the influence, and Henry actually wore
Speaker 1: her colors just sort of a way to symbolize his
Speaker 1: his affinity for her rather than his wife Katherine's, which
Speaker 1: had to be both just personally upsetting any embarrassing. Can
Speaker 1: you even imagine she would be at different various you know,
Speaker 1: events that were happening, and there's Henry and like whatever
Speaker 1: the Diane wore, you know, and she just had to
Speaker 1: sit there and clap, just shove it all down inside
Speaker 1: Katherine and I'll be fine. So Henry's mistress actually kept
Speaker 1: all of the influence that she had over him through childhood,
Speaker 1: it and into adulthood. Um she kept it through until
Speaker 1: Henry's death. She was always there. And it took for
Speaker 1: Catherine years of living with infertility and some extraordinarily humiliating
Speaker 1: treatments for that infertility, often involving urine and animal parts,
Speaker 1: before the cause of the problem that they were having
Speaker 1: she and Henry conceiving a child was finally uncovered. What
Speaker 1: actually was revealed was that the king had a physical
Speaker 1: issue called hippospadius, which makes conception really difficult. Oh, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, also, he probably had to have sex
Speaker 1: with her like regardless of the fact that he had
Speaker 1: a physical issue, you know, I mean, he was doing
Speaker 1: it with Diane, so like they needed to be in
Speaker 1: the same room as well, So for ten long years
Speaker 1: like this is this is crazy. So even though this
Speaker 1: was revealed to be a problem of Henry's physiology, Catherine
Speaker 1: was still considered to be the and to blame, and
Speaker 1: she was often called frigid by the people at court
Speaker 1: and the people of the country. Yes, so society was
Speaker 1: not nice to her at this time. Um. And So
Speaker 1: Henry had one living brother, UM, who was unmarried and childless,
Speaker 1: and I can only imagine that that would have made
Speaker 1: Catherine feel like the entire fate of that dynasty was
Speaker 1: in her hands. Um and so for her to have
Speaker 1: that first child was just incredibly important. There are actually
Speaker 1: even some accounts of Catherine tearfully pleading with the King,
Speaker 1: her father in law, Francis the first before they had
Speaker 1: ascended to the throne, to please allow Henry to marry
Speaker 1: a woman who could give him an heir. But Francis
Speaker 1: the first was not interested in this. He considered their
Speaker 1: marriage to be God's will and thus not something that
Speaker 1: could be dissolved. Greatest pairing in the world. I think
Speaker 1: he was on board with Pope right. The Pope made
Speaker 1: it happen, So it's God's will, God's will. Okay, so
Speaker 1: ten years. It took ten years of their marriage and
Speaker 1: all of his treatment of fertility treatment, societal treatments. Catherine
Speaker 1: finally gives birth to her first child with Henry UM
Speaker 1: and after that they went on to have a total
Speaker 1: of ten children, UM, of whom seven survived into adulthood.
Speaker 1: That was four boys lived and and three girls. UM.
Speaker 1: Her final pregnancy was just terrible and tragic, and she
Speaker 1: was pregnant with twin girls. UM, it wasn't going well.
Speaker 1: One of them died in the womb, the other died
Speaker 1: shortly after delivery, and Catherine herself almost died giving birth
Speaker 1: to them. And that was the last time, um, that
Speaker 1: they tried to have children. Uh. Yes, it is not
Speaker 1: really within the purview of a poison podcast to discuss it,
Speaker 1: but if you ever just in the market for a
Speaker 1: really horrifying pregnancy story, look that one up. It's gruesome.
Speaker 1: So Before we move on, we're gonna take a little
Speaker 1: breather of our own, and when we return, we will
Speaker 1: talk about France's teenage kings and why they had no
Speaker 1: interest in the throne. Welcome back to Criminalia. We're about
Speaker 1: to talk about how much Catherine's life changed about the
Speaker 1: time she turned forty. So Catherine is best known for
Speaker 1: being the Queen consort of Henry, the second of France.
Speaker 1: Consort in this context means that she did not come
Speaker 1: from a royal bloodline and that she became a queen
Speaker 1: through marriage, but she also ruled as queen regent for
Speaker 1: her two sons, Francis and Charles, who came to power
Speaker 1: when they were just fourteen and ten, respectively. Um, I
Speaker 1: can't imagine any ten year old really being super interested
Speaker 1: in ruling France so or prepared. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be ruled by a ten year old, thank you so much, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just that's just crazy right there. So
Speaker 1: m her third son, Henry, also came to power and
Speaker 1: she remained He was an adult when he did, but
Speaker 1: she remained heavily influential in his court too. So if
Speaker 1: you actually add up all of the years that Katherine
Speaker 1: was ruling as a regent and was the de facto
Speaker 1: ruler of France. It totals two about thirty years, which
Speaker 1: is amazing, amazing, Like who gets to say they ruled
Speaker 1: France for thirty years and a woman Catherine de Medici.
Speaker 1: That's who Catherine gets too. She doesn't need anybody to
Speaker 1: wear her colors. She's got her own colors. So her
Speaker 1: life actually really begins to take shape around this time
Speaker 1: when she's forty years old. Um, she's got teenagers, she's
Speaker 1: got a four year old. Um, she has a husband
Speaker 1: who um it was in an accident. Uh So Henry
Speaker 1: was killed um in a crazy sounding um and certainly
Speaker 1: painful sounding jousting incident. Yeah, this is another one. If
Speaker 1: you're squeamish, maybe like la la la for the next
Speaker 1: ten seconds. So Amazingly, after he took a aunts in
Speaker 1: the eye and into his brain, Henry the Second did
Speaker 1: not immediately die. He in fact went on to live
Speaker 1: for ten we're imagining very long days. So Henry did die, um,
Speaker 1: and when he did, his eldest son, Francis, who was fourteen,
Speaker 1: was proclaimed king. So, just in case you're wondering, why
Speaker 1: didn't Catherine ascend to the throne. She was never able
Speaker 1: to rule his queen because women were excluded from succession
Speaker 1: to the throne under Sala law in France. So then
Speaker 1: let's take a moment and talk about Francis. Francis was
Speaker 1: always considered weak. He was young, and by week I
Speaker 1: mean physically weak. Um, and he was never particularly interested
Speaker 1: in being the King of France or in charge of
Speaker 1: anything or royalty. I kind of imagined him as a
Speaker 1: kid who liked to sit in his room and play
Speaker 1: video games with his friends. Uh, they didn't have Xbox.
Speaker 1: Then think of how history would change if they had. Um, well,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have ten year old kings. Even though he
Speaker 1: was a ten year old, he was a husband. He
Speaker 1: had been married to Mary Stuart, Queen of Scott's, when
Speaker 1: he was just four years old, and at that time
Speaker 1: Mary was six, so sugar an older woman. It sounds
Speaker 1: off putting and really strange to modern ears. Obviously it is,
Speaker 1: But this sort of thing happened often when it came
Speaker 1: to arrange marriages among royal families as kind of a
Speaker 1: whole uh you know, political move These marriages were meant
Speaker 1: to be alliances, and in this case, an alliance between
Speaker 1: France and Scotland. It had nothing to do with love, right,
Speaker 1: I mean thinking it more like a business transaction that
Speaker 1: involved her children as ponds. Um. Not that that's much better,
Speaker 1: but it would at least let us get away from
Speaker 1: any of the romantic notions that we today hold with marriage. Right.
Speaker 1: And history suggests that it was actually Mary who ran
Speaker 1: things instead of Francis, much to Catherine's displeasure. And since
Speaker 1: he was only a teenager, it was Catherine who was
Speaker 1: technically in charge as Queen Regent and not Mary. So
Speaker 1: it's not surprising to discover there was constant friction. Can
Speaker 1: you even imagine? So? Um, it didn't actually go on
Speaker 1: for very long. Francis only ruled for less than a year. Um.
Speaker 1: And he too died reportedly from something fairly minor like
Speaker 1: an ear infection um or you know, I kept coming
Speaker 1: across ear infection, uh, something small that today we would
Speaker 1: just have drops to take care of. Uh. He's always
Speaker 1: described as having a weak constitution. Um. And soon after
Speaker 1: Francis died, Katherine made sure that Mary had a one
Speaker 1: way to get back to Scotland. Thank you for your service.
Speaker 1: We're done now. Pink slipped so Henry and Catherine's second
Speaker 1: son at this point, Charles, was crowned King Charles the
Speaker 1: Ninth at age ten. Because of his age and his
Speaker 1: lack of interest in being king again, I don't want
Speaker 1: to be ruled by a ten year old. Uh. Catherine
Speaker 1: once again acted as Queen Regent throughout his reign, which
Speaker 1: was also fairly short, though not nearly as short as
Speaker 1: his brother's. Charles died at age twenty four, so fourteen
Speaker 1: years right, right, and um, I actually don't think that
Speaker 1: she ever really gave up her ruling during his reign.
Speaker 1: I don't think he ever turned onto it. I don't
Speaker 1: think you ever got interested. I imagine when you've grown
Speaker 1: up with all of the benefits and doing none of
Speaker 1: the work, even when your age changes over to adulthood,
Speaker 1: you're like this, this arrangement is still working for me
Speaker 1: so exactly, Like I'm a team now and I've got
Speaker 1: plenty of time to go look at the other royal
Speaker 1: ladies while he ruled for me. Mom, you're doing a
Speaker 1: great job, mom keeping up well, I'm sure Katherine was like, yep,
Speaker 1: go out, I'm my god, I'm on it. Thanks, Thanks,
Speaker 1: got your homework right here. Yep doing it. It's rumored
Speaker 1: that Catherine had a favorite child, and I asked all
Speaker 1: of my friends if favorite favorite child, and they all
Speaker 1: lie and tell me that they don't. But I know
Speaker 1: that it's true and that you all do. UM. When
Speaker 1: Catherine's son Charles died, her son Alexander Edouard was next
Speaker 1: in line to take a spin at being the king UM.
Speaker 1: But he was an adult at the time. He was
Speaker 1: twenty two when he came to the throne as King
Speaker 1: Henry the Third. And one thing that we know for
Speaker 1: certain about Catherine de Medici is that she wrote extensively,
Speaker 1: both to her children and also to her European political peers.
Speaker 1: And while she was not technically serving as regent for
Speaker 1: Henry the Third, since he was an adult, she was
Speaker 1: hugely influential in his life and his reign. In this way,
Speaker 1: she really was UM. In fact, she wrote to advise him,
Speaker 1: for example, UM that when contemplating going to war, which
Speaker 1: you know comes up a lot when you're a king, UH,
Speaker 1: that he should remember that quote. Pieces carried on a stick.
Speaker 1: Big stick diplomacy is often attributed to US President Theodore Zavelt,
Speaker 1: whose foreign policy was speak softly and carry a big stick,
Speaker 1: you will go far. And and didn't Tony Stark say
Speaker 1: that peace means having a bigger stick than the other guy.
Speaker 1: I think they both stole the idea from Catherine. I
Speaker 1: think so too, uh so Off the battlefield though, UM Catherine,
Speaker 1: like her Medici relatives, UM, was also a huge patron
Speaker 1: of the arts. Indeed, this is the part of her
Speaker 1: I love, because she was known to commission drawings and paintings.
Speaker 1: She had extensive architectural projects carried out UM and her
Speaker 1: court was known for its extravagant entertainment UM and she
Speaker 1: featured everything from plays, ballet and other types of dance, UM, jousting,
Speaker 1: and she also had fireworks displays. Yes, she's considered to
Speaker 1: have introduced the concept of ballet to France, and then
Speaker 1: France kind of took it over for themselves. So Italian
Speaker 1: born Katherine is also often credited with introducing a lot
Speaker 1: of food innovations to France, something that France is known
Speaker 1: for now. And really some of those seeds are with
Speaker 1: Katherine's reign. She was sometimes called in in history books.
Speaker 1: She sometimes referred to as the foodie Queen, which I
Speaker 1: actually didn't know. I thought this was particularly great about
Speaker 1: her um. She is said to have introduced the fork
Speaker 1: to the French table at a time when using a
Speaker 1: fork was seen as pretentious, and she was also don't
Speaker 1: use that, how I put it down, I love the
Speaker 1: idea of someone like picking up a fork, and so
Speaker 1: would be like, what are you the pope? We don't
Speaker 1: want to be pretentious, but she She also introduced foods
Speaker 1: to France that I think of today as being French,
Speaker 1: like quint essentially French, like the puff pastry. Yeah, Catherine,
Speaker 1: it gets a lot of things attributed to her. It
Speaker 1: is also said that she introduced underwear to France. That's
Speaker 1: a bunch more complicated topic and the truth is really
Speaker 1: kind of less exciting than that makes it seem. In
Speaker 1: addition to her love and of the arts, she was
Speaker 1: also really curious about science. But remember that like science
Speaker 1: at the time is a little bit different than science
Speaker 1: and modern times. So like many of her peers, she
Speaker 1: was known to regularly consult astrologers and it's with an L,
Speaker 1: not astronomers, because they were able to predict or they
Speaker 1: at least they claimed they were able to predict the
Speaker 1: future by the position of the stars um and this
Speaker 1: was all considered just as important as art, literature and
Speaker 1: all other studies at the time, you know, as one
Speaker 1: does during the Renaissance. Astrology and astronomy very tightly linked
Speaker 1: during this period, and Catherine also became an admirer of Nostradamus,
Speaker 1: who was her contemporary. But then her story starts to
Speaker 1: take a turn and and in a strange way. Okay,
Speaker 1: so um, so let me describe this Catherine. Um. It
Speaker 1: was believed among some in French society that Catherine had
Speaker 1: commissioned an amulet from Nostradamus um, and she wanted it
Speaker 1: made from a mixture of metal and blood. Um. That
Speaker 1: would be human and goat blood if we're going to
Speaker 1: really get into the guts of this amulate. But it
Speaker 1: may or may not have happened, right uh. And another
Speaker 1: one of her contemporaries, the philosopher Jean Bodine, claimed in
Speaker 1: his fifteen eighty book on Witchcraft, that Catherine invented the
Speaker 1: black mass invented. That's that is a statement right there, right.
Speaker 1: This would have actually been about nine years before her
Speaker 1: death when he wrote this. But there is no record
Speaker 1: of Katherine acknowledging or commenting on this claim. You know,
Speaker 1: one of the things that I really like about Catherine
Speaker 1: Um as we were learning about her for this episode,
Speaker 1: was that she doesn't really seem to read the comments,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like she she knows that
Speaker 1: they're out there, she knows that they're happening. If they're
Speaker 1: not right in her face, she just sort of seems
Speaker 1: to go on. She she doesn't put out any statement.
Speaker 1: She has no PR department that is really worried about
Speaker 1: whether or not she invented the Black Mass. She just
Speaker 1: kind of nods along and does everything. I just I
Speaker 1: thought that was great. I have a sneaking suspicion that
Speaker 1: there's also an element of fine, let him think I
Speaker 1: can do witchcraft, absolutely right, I mean, if you were
Speaker 1: in charge of France when she wanted people to think
Speaker 1: that she were a sorceress. Although I mean it's actually
Speaker 1: highly unlikely she was a sorceress. Um. It's highly unlikely
Speaker 1: that there's any truth to either of these allegations about
Speaker 1: the Black Mass or the amulet Um. But the real press, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the no no press is bad press ideology of
Speaker 1: ruling exactly exactly. But what is worth noting is that
Speaker 1: in France at this time, um Italians in general. Uh,
Speaker 1: and most definitely Italian women. Um. They were very often
Speaker 1: suspected of being poisoners or at least regarded as being
Speaker 1: the murderous type, regardless of whether or not they actually were,
Speaker 1: or whether they were in Italy or France. The French
Speaker 1: just pointed and said poisoner, right, Uh, it was. It
Speaker 1: was pretty well established truth and we got to use
Speaker 1: the air quotes there in French society at the time
Speaker 1: that Catherine ordered the poisoning of probably a handful of people.
Speaker 1: She was credited with being involved with the poisonings of
Speaker 1: Jeanne Deaubray, who was the Queen of Navarre, as well
Speaker 1: as the Cardinal of Lauren, Cosse, a Marshal of France,
Speaker 1: and the Duke Donjou. It's also important to remember that
Speaker 1: during this period in history, poison wasn't really well understood.
Speaker 1: It was really hard for authority to determine whether or
Speaker 1: not it was the cause of a person's death. Um.
Speaker 1: And consequently, you can imagine that there were people accused
Speaker 1: of being poisoners willy nilly, who weren't actually poisoners, as
Speaker 1: well as people who poisoned and totally got away with it. Right.
Speaker 1: Remember this is a time when astronomy and astrology are
Speaker 1: both considered equal sciences. What are it saying? So this
Speaker 1: is another good moment where we're going to laugh ourselves
Speaker 1: into a little break. But when we return, we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about Katherine's alleged epic stash of poison. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to criminal Lea, where we're about to talk about
Speaker 1: the accusations that Catherine poisoned people with a pair of gloves.
Speaker 1: The massive Chateau de Blois has been home to many
Speaker 1: notable members of the French aristocracy, including seven kings and
Speaker 1: ten queens of France, and that includes Catherine. It was
Speaker 1: known for its beautiful three story external spiral staircase, and
Speaker 1: for its gargoyle downspouts, and it's five hundred plus rooms,
Speaker 1: and and and the list goes. You know, it's it's
Speaker 1: a real tert stream to show. Really, there's one room
Speaker 1: in particular in this home that is famously part of
Speaker 1: Catherine's legend because it was believed by many in her
Speaker 1: at her time that she kept her stash of poisons
Speaker 1: and a tiny apothecary style cabinet tree work that was
Speaker 1: in the woodwork um of one of this particular room,
Speaker 1: and it had as many as two hundred and thirties
Speaker 1: seven individual drawers. It was interesting about this particular piece
Speaker 1: of her story is that there is a story written
Speaker 1: by the writer Alexander Dumont about a character named Queen
Speaker 1: margot Um and that is Catherine's daughter Margaret, and she
Speaker 1: was married to a Hugueno leader in a shrewd political
Speaker 1: move as if there are any other types of right,
Speaker 1: So this story, which was written by Alexandra duma Pair,
Speaker 1: is based on real characters and events. But don't get
Speaker 1: it twisted. That does not mean it is historical record. Right.
Speaker 1: Not only do historians agree that Dumont took a very
Speaker 1: wide artistic license in his work, he most certainly also
Speaker 1: engaged in spreading a bit of propaganda about Catherine as
Speaker 1: well as other influential figures. And he appears to be
Speaker 1: the original source of this wall of poison's account, which
Speaker 1: I love the idea of a wall of poisons? Are
Speaker 1: you kidding me? But like, but he comes from this
Speaker 1: like vaguely fictional, vaguely, very untruthful account of semiistory. Right,
Speaker 1: it's just truthful enough that people believed the rest of it.
Speaker 1: That was made up and as cool as a wall
Speaker 1: of poison sounds. Historians believe that this was really more
Speaker 1: likely a place where Catherine kept small objects or perhaps
Speaker 1: confidential letters in all of those teeny tiny woodwork to drawers.
Speaker 1: But regardless, like the French still could not give up
Speaker 1: on the fact that they wanted Catherine to be a poisoner,
Speaker 1: and this was just an idea that they kept harping on. Allegedly,
Speaker 1: they believed one of Catherine's favorite methods for committing homicide
Speaker 1: with poison was with poisoned gloves. So Italy in the
Speaker 1: sixteenth centuries, you recall, where she is from, was a
Speaker 1: well perfumed country, and since we're used on your skin
Speaker 1: as well as on your clothing. And it may sound
Speaker 1: a little bit nutty today, but during the sixteenth and
Speaker 1: seventeen centuries, perfumed gloves were all the rage across Europe.
Speaker 1: They were the must have accessory, and Catherine was said
Speaker 1: to have introduced them to the French court. So this
Speaker 1: was the time when people didn't bathe as frequently as
Speaker 1: we do today, and so perfect gloves, which were called
Speaker 1: and I love the name of the perfect gloves, sweet gloves. Uh,
Speaker 1: we're used to mask odors, and the accessory became really
Speaker 1: popular and it was a pretty easy murder weapon to
Speaker 1: use during the Renaissance as well. Right, everybody's got everybody
Speaker 1: had gloves. Yeah, so let's get into how the French
Speaker 1: thought Katherine was using these sweet gloves to her advantage.
Speaker 1: So in fifteen seventy two, Catherine's daughter Margaret referenced earlier
Speaker 1: also as Margot was engaged to marry Henry of Bourbon,
Speaker 1: who would later become Henry the fourth of France. Henry's
Speaker 1: mother was a woman named Jean Dubray, and the story
Speaker 1: knows the john had been reluctant for her son to
Speaker 1: marry Katherine's daughter, who we also mentioned earlier. Um, suspicions
Speaker 1: were raised about Katherine when Joan died suddenly just two
Speaker 1: months before her son's wedding, because maybe she wanted her
Speaker 1: son to marry for love. No nobody wanted that at
Speaker 1: this phase of the game. Um, maybe she just didn't
Speaker 1: like Katherine and found her to be kind of mean.
Speaker 1: She may have just not wanted any kind of alliance
Speaker 1: with Catherine de Medici. That's totally plausible. I read a
Speaker 1: lot about how she just really did think that Katherine
Speaker 1: never said anything nice to her, was always mean. Um,
Speaker 1: she probably didn't like being around her, So naturally, rumors
Speaker 1: started to swirl the June's death was actually the result
Speaker 1: of poisoning. And even though there was little love between
Speaker 1: these two women, and that was well known throughout France,
Speaker 1: many people just assumed that Katherine sent a pair of
Speaker 1: sweet gloves to June as a pre wedding gift. In
Speaker 1: society at the time, it actually would have been considered
Speaker 1: kind of rude if she hadn't done so. Naturally, um,
Speaker 1: it was believed, of course that Catherine did it. Uh,
Speaker 1: she had allegedly gifted her with a pair of perfumed
Speaker 1: and possibly poisoned leather gloves shortly before the event happened.
Speaker 1: If if she did kill Jean with sweet gloves, the
Speaker 1: idea was actually kind of brilliant. Um. And if she didn't,
Speaker 1: they were the perfect weapon for the rumor mill. But
Speaker 1: the sweet gloves tainted with poison would have, you know,
Speaker 1: changes it a little bit. These gloves were a really
Speaker 1: common gift of the royal court. Um. They were valued
Speaker 1: for their symbolism and gifted gloves, especially gloves that came
Speaker 1: from a queen conveyed with them a certain sentiment of
Speaker 1: affection and loyalty. So she may have been trying to
Speaker 1: be like, look, I know we don't always get along,
Speaker 1: but you're marrying I love gloves made love gloves too,
Speaker 1: like sweet gloves all around. So as an example of
Speaker 1: another time when something like this was done, to give
Speaker 1: you an idea of how common and important it was,
Speaker 1: the Queen of Portugal in awarded the winning jousters of
Speaker 1: her court each with a pair of perfumed gloves. They
Speaker 1: were again perfumed, but not poisoned. It was actually it
Speaker 1: wasn't really the easiest thing in the world to make
Speaker 1: a pair of sweet poisoned gloves. It was kind of
Speaker 1: time consuming. Um. They were most commonly scented with herbs, spices,
Speaker 1: flowers like a jasmine, violet, and orange blossom. I would
Speaker 1: love to smell like orange blossom all day long. Um right. So,
Speaker 1: like for clarity, as you're about to hear, this is
Speaker 1: not a case or someone got a pair of gloves
Speaker 1: and then infused them somehow with scent like they are
Speaker 1: from the beginning of the process of making them infused.
Speaker 1: So the scents that were chosen were mixed with animal
Speaker 1: fat or another oil and then boiled. And then a
Speaker 1: pair of gloves, usually leather but exclusively so was then
Speaker 1: dipped into the fragrant liquid and then left to dry.
Speaker 1: And then, depending on the material of the gloves and
Speaker 1: the strength of the scent that was desired, this process
Speaker 1: could be repeated several times so that you infused the
Speaker 1: whole thing with the yummy, yummy scents. It wasn't just
Speaker 1: a casual drop of lavender oil on these clubs. It's
Speaker 1: like a process, right, So regardless of how long it
Speaker 1: took or how popular speak gloves were, even when they
Speaker 1: were not poisoned, the French still always just always had
Speaker 1: a great distress for Catherine, and June's untimely death only
Speaker 1: added fuel to that fire for them. So part of
Speaker 1: it was the Jean, who was a Hugueno, was considered
Speaker 1: a spiritual and political leader of the French Huguenot movement,
Speaker 1: and her death came at a time when the Catholics
Speaker 1: and Huguenots were negotiating a peace treaty, and that possibly
Speaker 1: ignited the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre of the Huguenos. Just
Speaker 1: a few weeks later, the whole theory of death by
Speaker 1: poi and gloves Um. It's since been discredited by modern historians,
Speaker 1: and it's most likely that she died of tuberculosis, not
Speaker 1: of poisoned accessories. Um. Yet the suspicion still remains on
Speaker 1: Katherine today. Even if you do your own independent research
Speaker 1: on her, you'll you'll find that she is accused of
Speaker 1: this poison in many places. What's sensational, which means clicks
Speaker 1: um exactly. So. The other thing is that there were
Speaker 1: three other rumored victims on Catherine's alleged hit lists, Holly,
Speaker 1: were they poisoned? No, they were not. Look, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying she was above poison a zero evidence. It was
Speaker 1: Cardinal of Lauren died as a result of surgery, which
Speaker 1: was a whole other dicey proposition at this point because
Speaker 1: they didn't have germ theory was not in the picture.
Speaker 1: Can you even imagine, like, there is absolutely no concrete
Speaker 1: record of the death of Cossey Immercial of France, but
Speaker 1: there's also no reason to expect that he was poisoned.
Speaker 1: And the Duke donje you once again that player in
Speaker 1: a lot of historical deaths tuberculosis right, so um, Although
Speaker 1: the intrigue of this myth continues to have legs, and
Speaker 1: it's really fun to talk about somebody poisoning somebody else
Speaker 1: with a pair of leather gloves. Um. What is certain
Speaker 1: is that Catherine, at the very least um is likely
Speaker 1: the one who popularized perfumed gloves in France, but without poison.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the real story is a boring story, sometimes like
Speaker 1: she just likes made successory really popular. You guys, Uh,
Speaker 1: But isn't it interesting how we are all? I mean,
Speaker 1: it's part of human nature. And I'm not judging anybody
Speaker 1: who wants to believe the more salacious version, but we
Speaker 1: all want to believe a rumor rather than a boring reality.
Speaker 1: You know, it's more fun to think she was a witch,
Speaker 1: a sorceress. She'll kill you, she'll kill you dead. And
Speaker 1: it's especially apparently especially fun if you were French in
Speaker 1: the NID. Listen, they didn't have television yet, the kids
Speaker 1: didn't have video games. They had to become kings and
Speaker 1: dad like life was hard. It's hard. But while it
Speaker 1: is unlikely she committed these sweet love poisonings, it is
Speaker 1: not really outside the realm of possibility that Catherine did
Speaker 1: or may have known how to dabble in poisons. That
Speaker 1: tendency did. It turns out, running her family. They dabbled
Speaker 1: in everything. You can't love science without a little poison
Speaker 1: in sixteenth century Italy. She she had she had many
Speaker 1: relatives who dabbled in poisons. But we have a few
Speaker 1: that we pulled out. Costumo de Medici. He was the
Speaker 1: grand Duke of Tuscany and a contemporary of Catherine's, which
Speaker 1: is why I thought he was interesting. Um. He was
Speaker 1: no and to use poison as a tool for solving
Speaker 1: his political problems. His son, too, was also a widely
Speaker 1: suspected poisoner um, and he likely used arsenic as his
Speaker 1: weapon of choice. Um. The Medaici poisoners go really far
Speaker 1: back into their family history, and homicidal poisonings were fairly
Speaker 1: commonplace in France and throughout all of Europe, frankly during
Speaker 1: this time, so much so that if you just fell ill,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't automatically think like, oh, I'm coming down with
Speaker 1: the flu or I have a little cold. You would
Speaker 1: naturally lean right into the idea that someone had what
Speaker 1: you should have thought, that you had tuberculosis. Um. But
Speaker 1: the popularity of poisons spread through Europe like crazy at
Speaker 1: this time. So when it spread from Italy into France,
Speaker 1: France practitioners became collectively known as the French School of Poisoners.
Speaker 1: There was also an Italian School of Poisoners at this time.
Speaker 1: It wasn't really a school. It was you know, where
Speaker 1: you went and had textbooks and things. But like, but
Speaker 1: it was a group of poisoners who helped each other, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, work out recipes, you know, maybe sharing some
Speaker 1: things with each other. They inspired at that time as
Speaker 1: many as thirty thousand poisoners in France alone by seventy two,
Speaker 1: which is more than a decade before Katherine died. So
Speaker 1: it was it was in the middle of her life.
Speaker 1: Poisoning in France wasn't trivial. It was just part of
Speaker 1: what you did. I like thinking about the School of
Speaker 1: Poisoner's coursework. What's the syllabus? Right? So, I mean, we
Speaker 1: all really like this twee idea of Katherine using a
Speaker 1: pair of tainted sweet gloves to make a power play.
Speaker 1: But sadly, nothing in her story is really there that
Speaker 1: makes her any more power hungry or bloodthirsty or poison
Speaker 1: prone than any other leader who was contemporary to her,
Speaker 1: as we've seen with many powerful female leaders. Um, whether
Speaker 1: we've talked about them yet in in this season, whether
Speaker 1: there to come, whether we're not going to address them
Speaker 1: at all, it doesn't really matter. But there's a lot
Speaker 1: of criticism that women received based on the sexist notions
Speaker 1: in the society that they happened to be living in.
Speaker 1: And in Catherine's case, to put on top of the
Speaker 1: fact that she was a woman, she was a foreign
Speaker 1: woman in a xenophobic culture, and so there are bound
Speaker 1: to be stories about her, and not good ones. So
Speaker 1: the French never really came around to Italian born Catherine,
Speaker 1: and they always viewed her as a manipulative foreigner with
Speaker 1: a ponchain for poison and for forks. And because Catherine
Speaker 1: believed in and supported the sciences UH in particular, she
Speaker 1: was very interested in astronomy and astrology, again astrology being
Speaker 1: considered a science at this point in history, this was
Speaker 1: enough to accuse her of occultism. The way that we
Speaker 1: have seen accordingly being accused of occultism matches up with
Speaker 1: the accusation that she had invented or at least participated
Speaker 1: in Black mass. UH accusations of witchcraft have long been
Speaker 1: used to delegitimize women who had any sort of power.
Speaker 1: Catherine died in January nine. She was sixty nine at
Speaker 1: this point. She died from natural causes, most likely related
Speaker 1: to floracy. Today she is buried next to her husband
Speaker 1: in the Sandinis Basilica in Paris. She was really influential
Speaker 1: during a period of really intense religious and civil conflict
Speaker 1: in France. Um she had been Had she been a
Speaker 1: man in the society that she lived in, Um, I
Speaker 1: can imagine that she would very possibly have gone on
Speaker 1: to be remembered as one of Europe's greatest leaders during
Speaker 1: the Renaissance. She was, she had a steady hand. She
Speaker 1: was apparently empowered for thirty plus years. But you know,
Speaker 1: the men weren't necessarily playing by the rules either. But
Speaker 1: instead she remains an object in history as the Italian woman,
Speaker 1: or Madame Salon, or Queen Jezebon, and maybe our favorite,
Speaker 1: the woman who eats little children. What is your poison
Speaker 1: this week? If you look up cocktails related to Catherine
Speaker 1: de mitt Geese name, you will discover a whole lot
Speaker 1: of them. Um. There are a lot of bartenders around
Speaker 1: the world that have come up with some interesting ones. Um.
Speaker 1: I landed on one that's a fairly simple affair. That is,
Speaker 1: I believe from an Australian site Koolatos. And this is
Speaker 1: a really simple recipe it is. I amended it a little.
Speaker 1: There's this like they go by Miller leaders uh, and
Speaker 1: I'm too lazy for that, so I just did roughly
Speaker 1: one part od vie, so that's also like a white brandy,
Speaker 1: and then two parts champagne and you basically pour the
Speaker 1: vie into a chilled champagne flute and then you pour
Speaker 1: the champagne on top. I think that sounds like a
Speaker 1: great Catherine de Medici, or just a Medici in general
Speaker 1: house of Medici drink. Well, it's certainly tastes like poison.
Speaker 1: Oh no, really does give it this nice fruitiness. Um,
Speaker 1: but it's just a little bitey for me. I like
Speaker 1: a very um like sweet, you know, very um juicy
Speaker 1: kind of drink usually, so I kind of like to
Speaker 1: be kicked in the head by it, so I'll have
Speaker 1: to make it. Well, bravo, you should be drinking earthquakes,
Speaker 1: I think. Um. But yeah, so that's the that's the
Speaker 1: Catherine de Medici. There are a million more. If you're
Speaker 1: feeling adventurous and you want to have some online time
Speaker 1: mixing cocktails. But that is the one that I selected
Speaker 1: for this one. It does seem kind of perfectly appropriate
Speaker 1: for her. The ingredients seemed pretty great. Um, did you
Speaker 1: notice that, like a lot of her her inspired drinks
Speaker 1: had a lot of Champagne's or anything in particular in them,
Speaker 1: or they tons of Champagne's. None of it is like, oh,
Speaker 1: you want to sip twelve of these while you sit
Speaker 1: by a beach all day long. It's all like you
Speaker 1: want to drink one maybe two. Yeah, So that's that.
Speaker 1: So thank you for joining us. Criminalia is a production
Speaker 1: of Shonda land Audio in partnership with iHeart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from the land Audio, please visit the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
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