1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Before we get into today's episode, we want 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: to cite Dr John Wyatt Greenley, who is a world 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: class authority on not just deals but many things from 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: the medieval world, and want to cite his work because 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: he has put a lot of time and research into 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: the story that we're going to explore today. You can 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: also find his website, which we mentioned in the episode, 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: Historia car Tarum dot org if you would like to 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: learn more about his past, present and future work. Hey, 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: and as we're going through this episode, we've collected a 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: bunch of research from a bunch of different outlets, and 12 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: what we didn't realize is that much of the writing 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: that's done on this topic comes directly from the research 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: that Dr Greenley has performed. And two of the main 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: articles will be pulling from today are from history extra 16 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: dot com. The article is Fishing for Gold, how eels 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: our the Medieval Economy and another one is on Historia 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: Carterum dot org and that's the Eel Rents Project. So 19 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: once again, thank you so much. The citations are important 20 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: and much of what you will hear in today's episode 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: comes directly from the work of Dr Greenley. Ridiculous History 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome back to 23 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 24 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: for tuning in. We've got our super producers Casey Pagram, 25 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: got our super producer Max Williams, live and direct here. 26 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: My good Palin co host Noel Brown is on Adventures 27 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: will be returning soon. I am Ben, and I am 28 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: not going into today's episode alone. Found out that my 29 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: very old dear friend, my writer die Matt Frederick himself 30 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: is into the concept of this episode. No spoilers yet, 31 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: but Matt, there you are. How's it going? Man? Hello back, 32 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: Hi everybody? Yes, yeah, can we get around of applause 33 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: in there? Max for yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, unnecessary unnecessary? 34 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: You know why why not while we're while we're throwing 35 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: Max under the under the producer bus, Max, give yourself 36 00:02:51,919 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: a round of applause for that applause to here. I 37 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: didn't know. I didn't know you could do that. I 38 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 1: didn't know either, So so Matt, thank you so much 39 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: for joining us today. Uh hit you up a little 40 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: a little while ago, like yesterday off air and asked 41 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: you about your position on eels in general. Right, Yeah, 42 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: Ben straight up slapped me in the face. With an 43 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: eel right before this with the question that doesn't work? 44 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: But yes, yes, this is all coming together very quickly. 45 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: But Ben, I have to tell you I couldn't be 46 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: more excited to discuss this topic with you today. Yes, yes, Now, 47 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: just before the three of us started recording today's episode, Matt, 48 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: you had a question for Max. What was that question? Oh? Yes, 49 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: how do you feel out sushi in general? That's the 50 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: first question? So in general? Yeah, all about it? Totally, 51 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: will do it? Okay? Okay? Is that like public sushi? 52 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: Is that high end sushi? Any sushi? I don't really 53 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: have much standards. I mean I'll eat like other lower 54 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: than publics. I don't know how much lower is really 55 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: than publics but I'll go there. Okay, I don't care, 56 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: got it? You heard that quick trip? Max? Is there 57 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: ready for your sushi? Uh? But okay? But what kind 58 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: of thing do you order? Is eel on the menu 59 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: for you when you get sushi? So it's been a 60 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: long time. I mean, look, you know, you go to Kroger, 61 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: you go to public, you get like the one that's 62 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: been sitting there for a couple of days. I mean 63 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: it's usually just like a California roll like that, they 64 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: might put something else in there also, like you know, 65 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,799 Speaker 1: it's usually just like slim pickings. But if I'm getting 66 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: some nice sushi, yeah, I'll give me the weirdest thing 67 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: you have. I mean to call back a previous episode. 68 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I'll do a cricket sushi roll. I'll do it. Yeah, okay, yeah, 69 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: dare to dream. I'm on board with this. I think 70 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: we're all kind of sushi fans. What about you, Matt, 71 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: you are you a sushi guy? But only if it's revolving. 72 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: If the sushi is revolving in some way, then I'm down. 73 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: If it's just yeah, yeah, if it's just static sushi, 74 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: not interested, Yeah yeah, because it's supposed to be fresh, 75 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: and what's more fresh than watching it rolled toward you 76 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: on a belt? Yeah. We we are big fans of sushi. 77 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: I'm also a big fan of Unagi specifically, which is, 78 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: you know, the Japanese freshwater eel. And today's episode is 79 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: about eels. We got there segue British British eels. Yes, 80 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: this ties into a weird dream of mine, an ambition. 81 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: I would say that I god, I want to do 82 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: at some point in life. But today's episode is also 83 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: a weird way about finance. You see, once upon a time, 84 00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: fellow Ridiculous historians, the British used to pay their not 85 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: with money, but with eels, e e l s, eels 86 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: and other things like firewood and eggs. So it's it's 87 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: really cool. This, this is super cool. It makes me 88 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: kind of wish we were still there to an extent, 89 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: because I've got lots of just things around the house 90 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: I need to get rid of. If I could, if 91 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: I could pay rent with kids books, Oh my god. Um, 92 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: but yes, that that is what we're discussing today, the 93 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: economics of almost it is a barter system or it's uh, 94 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: it's so weird to imagine a living and or dead 95 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: creature as a piece of currency. Yeah. Yeah. And as 96 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: we know, as our fellow listeners of both Ridiculous History 97 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: and the show You and I created stuff they want, 98 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: you know, are aware, currency has been any number of 99 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: bizarre things in the past, from peppercorns two giant rocks. 100 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: And while we originally found this via History extra dot com, 101 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: it turns out the vast majority of the research in 102 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: this episode is the work of one person, Dr John 103 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: Wyatt Greenley, who was again the expert on this fascinating story. 104 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: I mean, let's look to him for examples. We've got 105 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: a cool example to get us into this way. Back 106 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: in eleven or some monks at a place called Ramsey 107 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: Abbey in Huntingdon's Share and they needed a way across 108 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: a local fin f e n. So there was this 109 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: landowner whose name was Ralph Tubberville. That's correct. There were 110 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: people named Ralph in the eleven hundreds. Uh So, Ralph 111 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: had this road and he said, I'm willing to lease 112 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: this and it was an elevated causeway. It was pretty 113 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: dope as construction went at the time. And so for 114 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: the right to use this road, the monks at Ramsey 115 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: Abbey said, okay, Ralph, we'll pay you and once a 116 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: year we're gonna kind of pay you were rent on 117 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: this road. But it's not gonna be in. It's not 118 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: gonna be in terms of what we would consider currency today, 119 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: was it. No, it would be one thousand eels per annum, 120 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: as well as two pounds each of pepper and ginger 121 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: and a pair of scarlet trousers that was specifically for 122 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: the man of Tuberville. It's just the weirdest attition there. 123 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: You know, what were the negotiations, like, you know, did 124 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: they start with the eels and then they eventually you know, 125 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: they tacked on scarlet trousers, like like seal the deal? 126 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: And also how many pairs of red pants do you need? Yeah, 127 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: it was Christmas time, and you know they just thought 128 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: it would really go with what Ralph had going on 129 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: on the upper part of his body. They just thought 130 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: the red is just gonna look nice with that green 131 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: tunic he had going on. Yeah, Tuberville was all about 132 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: the vibe, whether or not he was a clothes horse. 133 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: We know that when he passed away. This same abbey 134 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: later renegotiated the deal, and Ralph's widow was not as 135 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: in the pants as he was. She did not want 136 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: anymore scarlet trousers. Instead, she wanted half a mark in coins, 137 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: sixty cartloads of firewood. But as Greenley notes, she still 138 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: wanted those one thousand eels, which is wild. Do they 139 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: get them all at once? Is it? Like? What do 140 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: you do with a thousand eels at once? Like even 141 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: if you're i mean, if you're one person or a family, 142 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: even if you've got twelve kids, a thousand eels there's 143 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: not a great way in eleven nine to keep that 144 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: stuff good unless you're converting it to fertilize her. Immediately, 145 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: it was like eel the bitcoin of its day. You 146 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: could convert it to other currencies. I I don't know, 147 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe there was a drying technique that 148 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: I just don't know about, as salted jelly deel kind 149 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: of thing. Well, well, here's the here's the weirdest part. 150 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: It was commonplace from like at least the tenth century onward. 151 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: People in England, all all across England paid some taxes 152 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: in terms of eels. Living eels were dead eels. And 153 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: that's because coins were not as common. And as coins 154 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: became a little more common, these eel rents did decline, 155 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: but they didn't decline for centuries. And this is where 156 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: our story takes place, because nowadays, you know, I was 157 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: thinking about this guy's During the pandemic, we saw a 158 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: lot more people carrying a lot less cash. And do 159 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: you guys remember when places like home depot and other 160 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: stores literally add signs up about a coin shortage. Did 161 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: you guys see any of that? They still have that 162 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: in my area. I don't know about you guys. Yeah, 163 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I haven't been to home depot in 164 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: a minute. It probably should be, but yeah, I do 165 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: remember that coin shortage completely. Yeah, and there's not enough coin. Well, 166 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: in medieval times there also was not enough coin um 167 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: and there just wasn't These are precious metals being pressed, 168 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: sometimes individually, sometimes in mass, but there aren't that many 169 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: coins that are metal going around. So as Dr Greenley 170 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: found a lot of places, a lot of landlords would 171 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: accept these things that they would call in kind payments 172 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: or in kind rent. So it could be eels, it 173 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: could be other things. It could be ale, beer, laggers, 174 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: those are really popular, eggs, grain, really anything that a 175 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: household could make use of. And firewood was also very 176 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: very common. That firewood as a whole other episode which 177 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: could we could continue into the America's into the times 178 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: of you know, the sixteen hundreds and prior to that, 179 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: when you could pay all of your rent with firewood 180 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: just because of the harshness of the weather and the 181 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: winters and the nights. Anyway, we're talking about eels today, Yeah, 182 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about eels. Eels were not some especially rare 183 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: animal at this time. They were in fact incredibly plentiful. 184 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: And the lords of England, the rulers at the time, 185 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: they wanted their cut, they wanted their vig you know. 186 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: So if you look at if you look at the 187 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: ten eighties six Domesday Survey, you'll see that they had 188 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: more records of rent being paid in eels than they 189 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: did of rent being paid in corn. And like, this 190 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: was nuts. If you lived in the village of Harmston, 191 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: for instance, in Lincolnshire, then your community collectively would oh, 192 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: Earl Hugh of Chester seventy five thousand eels per year. 193 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 1: I like the use of per adam though, Matt, that 194 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: sounds so much classier. Sure, yes, but listen to this again. 195 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: We're talking crazy numbers here. Seventy five dollars to old Earl. 196 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: But by the end of the eleventh century there were 197 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: more than five hundred and forty thousand eels being paid 198 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: as rent in England. Panum. Yeah, so they have see perannum. 199 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: It's just smooth. You're smooth guy. So landlords, what did 200 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: they do with these eels? Well, they ate some of them. 201 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: But it goes back to the earlier question Max, Matt 202 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: and I had, which is what you do? What do 203 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: you do with all these eels. Dr Greenley explains how 204 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: a landlord would kind of cycle these out. So let's 205 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: go back to those Ramsey monks. They had tenants, and 206 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: their tenants collectively gave them more than seventy thousand eels 207 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: every year, and the monks couldn't need all of those. 208 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: They were they were probably at some point sick of 209 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: eating eel if you can believe it. Max can't believe it. 210 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: He's a big old fan. And and uh. And then 211 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: what they would do then is they would use the 212 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: eels that their tenants gave them as a way to 213 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: pay for stuff they needed at the monastery, Like they 214 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: seven a thousand eels a year to Ralph and later 215 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: as widow. And then they agreed to pay four thousand 216 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: eels each spring to peter Brew Abbey for the right 217 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,239 Speaker 1: to take stone from a quarry nearby that the abbey controlled, 218 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: so eels could be literally money that you eat, which 219 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: I feel like, I feel like it's crazy that it 220 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: worked that long, because if you could just eat, like, 221 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: if you could just eat a green back right now, 222 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: the world would be a very different place. That's very true. 223 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: And a greenback is oh, you're talking about the paper 224 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: slash fabric stuff that we use. This currency, got it 225 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: literally eating money? Yeah, I guess that's the same thing. 226 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: Well that that this is a good way to get 227 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: into talking about something who already brought up. These are 228 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: not fresh eels usually usual. These are not the ones 229 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: that are coming straight out, and they were just speared. 230 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: As Professor Greenley points out, and he's literally the world's 231 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: foremost expert on this, it wasn't as if people were 232 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: stockpiling massive pools of live eels. These are actually preserved eels. 233 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: We we kind of joked about, you know, a drying technique, 234 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: but yeah, salt and time and smoking, drying all that 235 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: kind of stuff was very common. It was a common 236 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: practice to do that to these eels and then trade those. 237 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: So you are you actually would have God, I'm imagining 238 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: chests in some wealthy landlord's house, just chests of eel 239 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: uh that are required. It's like the medieval MTV cribs 240 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: where someone's taking a tour of the abbey and then 241 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: some guy who was like the celebrity, you know, host 242 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: of the abbey is is like, and this is our 243 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: eel room. Stacks on stacks on stacks or should we 244 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: say sticks on sticks on sticks, because when the eels 245 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: were dried and preserved, they were bundled into sticks. That 246 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: would be about twenty five eels per stick. So that 247 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: was the definition of bawling. How many eel sticks do 248 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: you have? You know what I mean? I'm so I'm 249 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: so sad that there wasn't some equivalent of poetry or 250 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: hip hop bragging about the amount of eels people had. 251 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: I wonder if it would hold up. I'd listened, I'd 252 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: listened to that mixtape once. Oh dude, yes, that would 253 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: be in my car right now. I wonder if they 254 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: if they had like quarter sticks. That was a quarter stick. Uh, 255 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: and just it's five eels just kind of wrapped up 256 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: but some kind of maybe red trousers. I don't know. Um, 257 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: it's really weird, man. We know this because there's an 258 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: historical record of who paid who what and what that 259 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: currency was. And the currency was sticks, right, That's how 260 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: you know it's a stick of eel. So um. There's 261 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: a quote here from an article on Dr green Mainly's 262 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: eel rent project on his website Historia carter Um, where 263 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: he walks us through the difficult business of calculating the 264 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: worth of an eel x mill owed y abbey z 265 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: sticks of eels per year, But really, what what does 266 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: that mean? And then there's another thing here when you're 267 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: talking about taxes, because you know, in medieval Europe as 268 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: everywhere else, you always had to pay the king in 269 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: the in that case or the rulers a little bit 270 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: of that eel off the top. How much eel did 271 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: they get off the top? And how do you figure 272 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: that out when you're dealing in sticks of eels. Yeah, 273 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: this is actually beyond the capacities of our great inflation calculator. 274 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: So we're going to refer to some excellent work by 275 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: Historia carter Um. Here we go, when we try to 276 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: make an educated guess about how much, you know, cold 277 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: hard scratch and eel was actually worth. We could see 278 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: that a single translates to about thirty six to seventy 279 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: two cents in dollars today, So a stick of eels 280 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: would equal something between nine dollars and six cents and 281 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: eighteen dollars and eleven cents in the modern day. So 282 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: Historia Carterum argues that if we take those two measures 283 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: as kind of our spectrum of high and low end 284 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: price points. Then we get a window of understanding that 285 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: we didn't have otherwise, and that gives us an even 286 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: better sense of just how many eels were moving in 287 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: this weird dried eel market. So there's a flip side 288 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: to this. Let's let's try to think of what what 289 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,239 Speaker 1: we in the modern day could use to understand the 290 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: value of eels, and Dr Greenley has a great answer 291 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: here as well. If you are a friend of Jeff, 292 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: which is our euphemism for Amazon Prime subscribers, then you'll 293 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: be happy to do well. I don't know if you'll 294 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: be happy to know, but if you'll be fun at parties. 295 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: When you say an Amazon Prime membership is like what 296 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: a hundred nineteen dollars If you paid an eels, that 297 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: would only be about a hundred and sixty five to 298 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty eels, So just six to thirteen sticks. Man, 299 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: that's pretty great on a on a yearly basis, that's 300 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: not that many eels. I'm just kidding. Imagine how much 301 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: how much actual work that would take for an individual 302 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: to go out to a river and catch three hundred 303 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: and thirty eels, Like that's a lot of days and 304 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: hours and just to get your Amazon Prime membership. I 305 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, you're You're absolutely right, Matt. 306 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: It's it's weird because now I'm I'm going to spend 307 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: the weekend. I don't know about you guys been to 308 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: spend the weekend thinking like how much is this an eels? I'll, 309 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: you know, I'll be at the local bookstore or something, 310 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: and then yeah, I might try it. I might just 311 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: try it, see if I can. I can pay in 312 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: a in a stack of eels. That's really I just 313 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: see the headline already, like local lind A man arrested 314 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: for trying to shove eels down a man's pocket. You 315 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 1: guys don't understand history, he said, So you know what 316 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: I just thought of. Guys, let's have we have forgotten 317 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: to take into account the smell? We didn't even think 318 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: about the smell. Everybody's got eels up in their house 319 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: in a chest somewhere on sticks in a room. They're 320 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: carrying them around to pay for rent. What is what 321 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: is the smell like out there? Success bro money, The 322 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: fishy smell of some eels would be a dead giveaway 323 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: that the person you were talking to is just bawling 324 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: out of control. So uh yeah, well, you know, smells 325 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: in general were treated differently on a cultural basis back then. Right, 326 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: this is kind of pre deodorant. It does make you 327 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: wonder what that did for the I don't know how 328 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: to put this lightly, the sex drive of everybody waltson around. Yeah, 329 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: that's oh, that's a segue for sure, nicely done, Matt, 330 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: because I think the Church comes into play here. You know, 331 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: the Church is one of the biggest authority figures at 332 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: this time, and they are historically very concerned with sex 333 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: and very concerned with lent l e n T. Yes, 334 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: it's that lent rent. So we're just gonna be rhyming 335 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: all over the place. Yeah. So, so let's talk about 336 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: the species of the British river eel. Yes, so um, 337 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: most of the eels that end up being used in 338 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: this old rent situation are caught in autumn, that's to know, right, 339 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: And the reason for that is because there's a yearly 340 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: downstream migration. And back to Dr Greenley's article for History 341 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: extra fishing for Gold, how eels powered the medieval economy? Okay, 342 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: that are that are occurring in autumn? So lots of 343 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: them are being caught, but the rent wasn't due until 344 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: the start of Lent, so late winter or spring. So 345 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: everybody's catching, drying salting, doing whatever they do to those 346 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: eels to get them on the sticks. Um. And the 347 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: reason why rent was due at this time because there 348 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: was during Lent, you were prohibited from eating meat. Okay, 349 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: this is very important. So if you cut any fresh eels, 350 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: you can't eat them. Got dried eels, They're still good 351 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: for eating, but you can't eat them because you're not 352 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: allowed to. So the church understood this explicit connection between meat. 353 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: They believed there was an explicit connection between eating meat 354 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: and um carnetas. No, I'm just showing um the carnal urges. Yeah, yeah, Carnea, 355 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: I know. I was just saying, because they're so good, 356 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: they're almost sexual. They're so good. You're on the money, man, 357 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: you're on the eel money. Because they believe that the church, 358 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,479 Speaker 1: that is, believe the eating meat, which they would you know, 359 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: define is like be for sheep, etcetera, what have you, 360 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: was going to inevitably make a person kind of nusty, right, 361 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: kind of amorous? And why is that? Because a creature 362 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: that was created va sex would in some way in 363 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: in inform your body or I don't know, symbolically make 364 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: you get all torned up. That's the concept. Yeah, you're 365 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: charged up. It's interesting too because, unless you think we're 366 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: picking on Europe too much, the consumption of certain animal 367 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: parts across the world has long been believe to increase libido, 368 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, like especially eating sexual organs of animals. For 369 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: the Church at this time, it was just enough that 370 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: the animal was created through good old reproduction. And we 371 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: know what you're thinking, Hey, guys, don't fish also reproduce? 372 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: Don't they also kind of have a sexual union? Yes, 373 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: fish reproduced, But the Catholic Church wasn't worried about that, 374 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: probably because they couldn't walk to a nearby field and 375 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: just see, you know, I'll say it, eels getting down, 376 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: getting skin a max with each other the way they 377 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: can see cattle. But think about what an eel looks 378 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: like thin, think about the touch of an eel so slippery, 379 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: it's so it's so very penis Like I don't know, 380 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: just you think it would be the opposite, like, don't 381 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: get the eels, don't eat the eels. There's way too 382 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,479 Speaker 1: much sexual stuff going on there, But no, it was 383 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: it was. It was the opposite of that. Yeah, you 384 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: bring up a great point. It is it is sort 385 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: of weird for us to look back and say, like, hey, 386 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: wasn't that one of the most phallic animals you could 387 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: have allowed? But but instead they were They said, no, nope, 388 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: it's a lent and even if you're married, you need 389 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: to be abstinent for this time. So meat is off 390 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: the table because it might make you violate this spiritual system. 391 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: Eating fish was thought to not excite the libido in 392 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: any way at all, so you could have as much 393 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: fish as you wanted. Eels were a great choice because 394 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: they were everywhere right in the rivers and the waterways. 395 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: And eel pies we're super, super popular. Eel pies are 396 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: still a storied, if declining tradition in the UK today, 397 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: and that is because virtually every medieval European at the 398 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: time believe that these fish reproduced a sexually, and it's 399 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: a very very old belief system that dates back to 400 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: Aristotle and the somewhat unique life cycle of the eel, 401 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: which is ugly. Just for the record, I think they're ugly, 402 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: but they probably think we're ugly. Too. Yeah, I'm sure 403 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: they would get real, real weirded out by us if 404 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: there were just some studying going on. I bet it's 405 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: happened in the past. But the reproductive cycle of these 406 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: eels really is fascinating. They would go out into the 407 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: open Atlantic, the the ocean there, and that is where 408 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: they would breed. Then they would migrate to land, and 409 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: this is when they're in a very small state as 410 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: a fairly new creature. So the young, the young essentially 411 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: called Elver's there's a term I did not know e 412 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: l V E r s. And they're heading up the river. 413 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: Once they find a home that's you know, somewhere amongst 414 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: the river. There they stay and then they grow for 415 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: over a decade around it decade until they eventually head 416 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: back to the sea to get it on and then 417 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: send their little young ones back up the river. And 418 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: then they die. Oh yeah, they do die after after coitas, no, 419 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 1: just after doing it, after doing it, they die. Uh. 420 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: And Aristotle very smart dude, right, he'd never made the 421 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: connection between Elver's, this juvenile form, and the growing form 422 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: we call eels. So he wrote with a lot of 423 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: self assurance that eels springs spontaneously out of the Mud. 424 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: And then other writers followed his example and said, that's it. 425 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: They come, they come from the Mud. This was so 426 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,719 Speaker 1: well established in the European zeitgeist that persisted into at 427 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: least the fifteen hundreds, maybe longer. And part of that 428 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: was because if you look at an eel before it, 429 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: you know, gets to its final form, you wouldn't normally 430 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: see sexual organs. They only develop ovaries and testes at 431 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: the very very end of their lives, right before they 432 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: head out for that fatal romantic encounter on the high seas. 433 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: That's how they know. They gotta go like one, Oh 434 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: I got sorry, guys, I got balls. Now it's over 435 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: for me. That's how that's how it goes. That's so 436 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: messed up that that's like their death sentence or their 437 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: death cry or I don't know, that's just so weird 438 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: or is it awesome. There's a great way to go. 439 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: I suppose I like that optimism. Yeah, let's go with that. 440 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: And so people were searching for eel ovaries and test 441 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: these for centuries. It wasn't just Aristotle. We're not picking 442 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: on just one guy. Sigmund Freud also looked and he 443 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: couldn't find anything. So because these eels were not seen reproducing, 444 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: and because if you searched one of their bodies you 445 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: would not see anything that indicated they could reproduce, it's 446 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: kind of understandable that they were like, no, I don't know, 447 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: there's weird things that come from the mud. They go 448 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: to the sea. You can pay rent with them. What's 449 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: not to love? Seriously, And it wasn't until seventeen seventy 450 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: seven that an Italian dude named Carlo Mondini actually located 451 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: and eel Ovary and there was much rejoicing. So everybody 452 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: thank that guy because he made an important discovery that 453 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: may sound kind of irrelevant today, but it was something 454 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: that confused people for a very long time. And Sigmund Freud, 455 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: just to clarify, he was specifically looking for eel testes. 456 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: He he didn't find them, but so they knew. Just 457 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: imagine that. I could just see that just going out 458 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: getting another eel, just like holding it up, got a 459 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: microscope and he's just like the testes. The test is, yeah, 460 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: it's gotta paint, you know U. I imagine I imagine 461 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: Sigmund like being disappointed that he's known for his work 462 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,479 Speaker 1: in psychology, and he's like, but I'm an eel man. 463 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: I'm on the quest for the balls. Psychology is very secondary. 464 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: But he would do a Reddit A m A and 465 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: people would be asking about Freudian theory, and his response 466 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: would be like, hey, guys, can we keep our questions 467 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: focused on eel tests? Please? That's right, that's right. Please 468 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: save all your questions unless they're about eels. There are 469 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: no eel test these they say they reproducing a dream, 470 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: a subconscious thought of another eel coming out of them. 471 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: You're nailing it. Sorry, it's perfect, it's perfect. I want 472 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: to read that Reddit A m A. So, so this 473 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: is the thing. Their unique position in religion and culture 474 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: of the time helps us understand why pay eel rent 475 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: remains such a long lived practice, even after coinage was 476 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: a little more common. Most of the other in kind 477 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: rents had disappeared by the century or so, but not 478 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: eel rent. Landlords continued to collect that from the thirteenth century. 479 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: You can see records that show people are paying with 480 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: the eel, like more than four hundred and fifty thousand 481 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: eels annually, and they were still making new inc and 482 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: new deals that we're all in Eel. You're right, we 483 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: are accellently rhyming a lot on this. I should tell you, Matt, 484 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: I think you missed it. Um, but Max was there 485 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: a few episodes ago Nolan got really close to freestyle 486 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: and I think, I think, yeah, I think he's gonna 487 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna get do it. Some finally finally 488 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,479 Speaker 1: respond to the culture kings. Shout out to them, Man, 489 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: they're good dudes too, and yeah they're and uh, back 490 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: to eels. Dr Greenly also has an explanation for the 491 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: decline of this practice, the Black Death. Sorry, that's an 492 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: unexpected heavy twist, but yeah, the Black Death. Yeah, I 493 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: guess it was seen as a little less clean in 494 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. And I can imagine that. Yeah, 495 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't until after nine. Oh what a great year, 496 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: thirty nine. That's when red meat started to become way 497 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: more available to people, and you know, I would say 498 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: probably became pretty exciting given all the eel consumption over 499 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: the centuries. And at the same time, you know, the 500 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: population was much lower after Black Death, and that meant 501 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: there's way more currency per person out there, you know, 502 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: floating around. So you can imagine that the demand for 503 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: eels over all began to drop, and around that time 504 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: there were only I think around thirty four thousand eels 505 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: that were paid that I don't know, how do you 506 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: say this eel rent was only paid with thirty four 507 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: thousand individuals. I don't know how to say this stuff, guys. 508 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: And so we see this precipitous decline four hundred and 509 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: fifty thousand eels every year during the thirteenth century or so, 510 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: down to just thirty four thousand eels in the game 511 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: a little later, and then in the fifteenth century and 512 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: the fourteen hundreds we see another huge drop and by 513 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: fifteen hundred. By the year fifteen hundred, which is a 514 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: good one, but it doesn't stack up the thirteen forty nine. 515 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: To Matt's point, by hundred eel rents had mostly disappeared, 516 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: but not all the way. Nope, Nope. In the sixteen eighties, 517 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: there's this amazing mill in Norfolk that's still rented out 518 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: for thirty pounds. That's not all and sixty eels. Oh yeah, 519 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: so good luck to you you, Okay, I gotta ask 520 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: the question, like, can you like borrow that? He like 521 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: discussed that somebody like, hey, so I only got twenty pounds, 522 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: but I got like ninety eels with me. It's non 523 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: negotiable eels. You just have those exact measurements right there. 524 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: That's correct. They don't make eel change either. And like 525 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: you can't have sixty one eels because you have to 526 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: pay four eel storage when you're there, cost two eels 527 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: to store your eels. Right, it is weird sixty eels 528 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 1: because that's two sticks and a portion of another stick. Yeah, weird, 529 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: two five of a stick sticks on sticks. Uh. Next, 530 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: your questions are so astute that I feel like you've 531 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: been in this hustle before. I'm not gonna answer that. 532 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 1: I want to leave you just wondering a little bit. 533 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 1: All right, Okay, I respect, I respect an enigmatic man. 534 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,240 Speaker 1: But you make a really great point, Max, Because there 535 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: it was this family, the Windham of family. Uh that 536 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: sounds so familiar. If you can get off exit eleven 537 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 1: here on Highway four hundred and you'll find Wyndham maybe 538 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: it was their family, Oh my god, connecting the dots um. 539 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,959 Speaker 1: But they were of Felbrigg Hall and they really did 540 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: have a hard time collecting the payments because people weren't 541 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: pay and eel rents anymore. Sorry, we don't. We didn't 542 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: dry them this past autumn, you know, for Lent the 543 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: way we were supposed to because of the whole naughty thing. 544 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, sorry, we don't have any eels, but we 545 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: do have that thirty pounds. So they felt like what 546 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: we can say from the Windhams is they felt like, 547 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, they didn't want to change the old ways. 548 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: It is possible that this was a lent thing l 549 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: e n t for them, but it may also be 550 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: possible that they were super into eel. Pie is where 551 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna diverge just for a second, So I'm just 552 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,720 Speaker 1: sending you guys a picture over our zoom call today 553 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 1: about pie mash and eels. Pie Mash and eel shops 554 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: have been in London since at least the eighteen hundreds 555 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: and they serve stewed or jellied eels. I desperately want 556 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: to try it out. What do you do? You guys 557 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: want to describe the picture? The second one? I said, 558 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: I have these saved on my computer sometimes. Oh man, Ben, 559 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: you know, I like recently haven't saying I'll try everything 560 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: and I'll try this with you, buddy, But this is 561 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: this is disgusting. It's like it looks like ice cream 562 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: that went bad and got like gooey on top, and 563 00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: just Matt take over. The eel isn't the setting part, 564 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: it's the jelly. It's the Yeah, it's just so slippery 565 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: and it's just so gelatinously and transparent and you can 566 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: seal the you can see the eel bits in between 567 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: the jelly parts. Yeah, but I do want again, I 568 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: do want to point out it comes with sides. Okay, 569 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: I don't know why that was the saving gracy. It's 570 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: a combo meal. What do the sides look like? Like? 571 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,879 Speaker 1: Nothing thus far is really at appetizing. I'm pretty sure 572 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: it's just parsley and lemon mashed potatoes. You know what 573 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: does the mashed potatoes look like? That you cover it 574 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: with the same sauce. Though, I really want to try it, 575 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: so sorry guys, folks, ridiculous histories. Please please check out 576 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: jelly to eels or let us know if you have 577 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: had an experience with them. We'd like to hear your take. 578 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: Here's the thing, like you said at you you were 579 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: pressed it when you talked about firewood, right payment and 580 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: firewood carrying over to the early United States or the colonies. 581 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: In the early days of what would become the US, 582 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: people also liked old eel pie. They just didn't like 583 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: paying eel rent. So today sushi may be the most 584 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: common use of eel in the US, Like we talked 585 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 1: about the very top unagi. But if you go back 586 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: just a few centuries ago, eel pie was the business. 587 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: People were all about it. Yeah, and we got some 588 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: great info here from Libby O'Connell who wrote The American Plate, 589 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 1: a culinary history in one hundred bytes, and she's discussing 590 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 1: just how big eel was everywhere Cape Cod. It was huge, 591 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: local streams all over the place, and they were so 592 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: sought after. Imagine this, you guys. They were using lobsters 593 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: as bait to catch the eels. Why, I mean, come on, 594 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: you get you're gonna tell me that you well, I 595 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 1: guess imagine jelly to lobster, Like I don't. I don't 596 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: think that's much better. So if you're going to prepare 597 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: your eels in that way, um, really, you prepare anything 598 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: in that way and you lose me. But the thought 599 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: of using a lobster to catch an eel just frustrates me. 600 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: Man well, you know, back in the day, lobsters didn't 601 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: have the same reputation they enjoy in the modern age. 602 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: And just to be clear here, that's because they were 603 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: served to people, often disadvantaged members of society, in a 604 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: really gross preparation. They weren't shelled, people didn't take the 605 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: meat out. They crushed it all together and made it 606 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: like this kind of gross soupy thing so delicious. Well, 607 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: you're fine as long as it's not jelly. Huh yep. Uh. 608 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: If it's crunchy, cool cool. If it's slurpy, I like it. Uh. Yes, 609 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: So this to turn into a little bit of a 610 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: gross food episode for some people, but I I definitely 611 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: want to try this. Like you said, eels were a hot, 612 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: hot commodity, but something happened. There was a decline in 613 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: the supply of eels. They were no longer as plentiful 614 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: as they were once upon a time, and this led 615 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: to a decline of interest in savory eel pie and 616 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: over time, o'caddle notes people in the US started to 617 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 1: move away from eating animals consumed in their natural form, like, 618 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: for instance, a lot of us listening to the show 619 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: today have never killed a chicken that we ate. We've 620 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: never slaughtered a cow or dressed a deer. We've gone 621 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: to a grocery store, We've gone to a restaurant or 622 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: something like that. So O'Connell argues that maybe that's what happened. 623 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: Maybe people got further and further away from the natural 624 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: state of the creatures they were consuming. And the Smithsonian 625 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,720 Speaker 1: notes that eel has seen a resurgence and popularity driven 626 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: by the rise of sushi, but that lack of supply, 627 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,800 Speaker 1: that dearth of supply continues to be an obstacle because 628 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: today the eel has been classified as endangered on the 629 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: International Union for Conservations Red List of Threatened Species because 630 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: the seafood supplies run low in Asia. There's also been 631 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: more poaching in the US, further depleting regional resources. You know, 632 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense if there aren't as 633 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: many eel around and people are kind of changing their tastes, 634 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: and then eventually the eel, you know, are protected. We're 635 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 1: just not going to be eating him in the same way. 636 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,399 Speaker 1: But it does make me sad that there isn't some 637 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 1: even if it's not iel, that there's some kind of 638 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 1: one to one like that that would be valuable enough, 639 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: like I can't there can't be a rat infestation in 640 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,919 Speaker 1: somebody's rental home and then you take out all the rats, 641 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: you get a stick of rats, and then you can 642 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 1: use that to supplement your rent um. I mean you 643 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: can imagine it kind of in the way like a 644 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: pest control service would cost x amount of money. So 645 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: you may be able to work that in if you're good, 646 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,839 Speaker 1: if you're a good negotiator. But it's not the same 647 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 1: thing as having a stick of eels. Yeah. Yeah, we 648 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: would need a perfect storm of economic factors to make 649 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: to create an animal that could be used as a 650 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: widespread regional currency. Right, we would need cultural Moray's that 651 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: not more a deels. There we go. We would need 652 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: we would need yes, we need cultural more ales. Uh, 653 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: we'd need some authority figures saying that there was some 654 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: necessity behind the food stuff. And then we would also 655 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: need uh for we would need for people to not 656 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,719 Speaker 1: reject idea of eating it, and would also need to 657 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: be plentiful. Rats are plentiful, but people generally in the 658 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: West reject the idea of eating rats for sustenance. They're 659 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 1: seen mostly as vermins, sometimes as pets, but not as 660 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: not as like you wouldn't need to Okay, wait, no, 661 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: it's we're towards the end of the week. Oh that's 662 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: a weird question, Matt Max. Given the choice you had 663 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: to eat one, would you eat an eel pie or 664 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: a rat pie? Yeah? I worked in restaurants for like 665 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 1: a decade. I know how disgusting rats are. Like, no, 666 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: absolutely not. And I actually had some in a rental 667 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: home that I lived in and caught around thirty eight rats, 668 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: that's my estimate. But here's my problem, and I think 669 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: I may have told this story before. I'm kind of 670 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,839 Speaker 1: an idiot. I didn't understand how rats function and how 671 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: a depth they were at finding their way back, even 672 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 1: if you take them away a couple of miles. I 673 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 1: think I did not want to kill them. They they 674 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: weren't hurting me in any way. It was just gross. 675 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,319 Speaker 1: So I would trap them where you know there it's 676 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: a live trap where it just closes behind them after 677 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: they go for that sweet sweet peanut butter, and I 678 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 1: would take them away. There's a large airport near me, 679 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,800 Speaker 1: and I would release them kind of out into the wilds, 680 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 1: out there where there's no civilization, thinking, oh, they'll find 681 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 1: a way to live over here. You know what I 682 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,439 Speaker 1: caught thirty eight because I'm pretty sure I caught many 683 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:41,399 Speaker 1: of the same rats, like three or four times. Oh 684 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: the rats are going back and they're like, yeah, I 685 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,719 Speaker 1: got locked up for a second. But peanut butter. You know, dude, 686 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: get the peanut butter. It's so worth it. This guy 687 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:56,400 Speaker 1: gives you peanut butter and he drives you back. You 688 00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 1: might be a legends. Glad I moved out. Well, I'm 689 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: glad you made it here to Matt, and I'm super 690 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,720 Speaker 1: glad you were able to join us on the show today, 691 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,800 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, thank you for tuning in. We want to 692 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: hear from you, folks, especially if you've lived in the UK, 693 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,359 Speaker 1: you've visited, have you tried eel Pie and mash? Isn't 694 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: any good? You know? I think our our crew here 695 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 1: is a little bit um. Collectively, we're a little bit 696 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: dubious on whether or not this is worth a shot. 697 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,919 Speaker 1: Some people not going to name names on the zoom call, 698 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,360 Speaker 1: might play it safe and get some fish and chips, 699 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And there's nothing wrong with that. 700 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: Those are delicious, But let us know what your experiences like. 701 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 1: You can do that on our Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians. 702 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,080 Speaker 1: I think we may also have our email working Ridiculous 703 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: at I heart media dot com. Uh, Matt, it feels 704 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: It feels just a tad weird for me to ask 705 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: you this, because we do hang out pretty much all 706 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,759 Speaker 1: the time. But this is usually the point in the 707 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: show where we give our illustrious guests a second to 708 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: talk about some of their own upcoming projects or where 709 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: people can learn more about their work. Oh well, sure, 710 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: of course stuff they don't want you to know. I'm 711 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: assuming everybody that listens to this show is aware of 712 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 1: that one, just because you and Noel host this one. 713 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,839 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe not. We talked about you a lot. Okay, cool, 714 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,239 Speaker 1: well thanks, Wow weird, no, but stuff that I wanted 715 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: you to know. I would highly recommend this brand new 716 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,719 Speaker 1: show that our team is making with Tenderfoot TV. It's 717 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 1: called Algorithm. It is out right now. Yeah, you'll be 718 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: able to get I think three episodes by the time 719 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: you're hearing this fantastic stuff. It's hosted by Ben Kiebrick, 720 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: one of the producers on Monster of the Zodiac Killer 721 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: and Monster d C Sniper, as well as Camp Hell 722 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 1: and Awaki that's hosted by Josh Stain, another one of 723 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 1: the producers from those Monster series, but this time they 724 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 1: are hosting their own series, both through crime shows, both 725 00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: compelling as all heck and scary. Highly recommend both, and 726 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,360 Speaker 1: if you'd like to hear more about the history, culture, 727 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: and strange science of food, do check out our peer 728 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:18,280 Speaker 1: podcast Savor, which is hosted by Andy Reese and Lauren 729 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: Vogelbaumb Thanks as always to our super producers Kasey Pegraham 730 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 1: and Max Williams. Over there, who will eat an eel 731 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: pie with me? If a rat pi is the only choice? 732 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,560 Speaker 1: Thanks to Gabe Louizier, our research associate, Christopher Hasiotis, Eve's 733 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,719 Speaker 1: Jeff Coche and of course Jonathan Strickland. I don't know 734 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,239 Speaker 1: his position on eel pie, but something tells me we 735 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,320 Speaker 1: will learn about it soon. I forgot to do that. 736 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. Jonathan, Nope, that's it. We're going. We're going 737 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:58,320 Speaker 1: see you next time, everybody. For more podcasts for my 738 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio, a Apple podcast, 739 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.