WEBVTT - Group Chat Protocols, Bracket Updates, and thoughts on the WNBA 0:00:15.564 --> 0:00:34.244 Pushkin. Welcome back to Risky Business, a show about making 0:00:34.244 --> 0:00:37.004 better decisions. I'm Maria Kannakova and. 0:00:37.004 --> 0:00:40.524 Live on tape from the beautiful Pushkin Studios in the 0:00:40.564 --> 0:00:42.884 Flying In District of New York City, New York. I'm 0:00:42.964 --> 0:00:43.484 Nate Silver. 0:00:44.044 --> 0:00:46.804 Yes, this is correct. This is the first time that 0:00:46.924 --> 0:00:49.404 Nate and I are both in the studio in the 0:00:49.484 --> 0:00:52.444 same place since the pilot of the show. Nate. 0:00:52.804 --> 0:00:56.324 But if you detect an extra special chemistry, it's very 0:00:56.324 --> 0:00:58.484 close quarters. You're actually it is. 0:00:58.724 --> 0:01:02.684 Yeah, And today we've got some some stories for you. 0:01:03.804 --> 0:01:06.764 First up, the Failing Atlantic Monthly. 0:01:07.044 --> 0:01:08.724 Failing Atlantic Monthly. 0:01:08.924 --> 0:01:12.364 Has a quite the scoop, So we're going to be 0:01:12.404 --> 0:01:17.884 talking about Jeffrey Goldberg's signal, information security and what not 0:01:18.044 --> 0:01:19.724 to do on your group chat. 0:01:20.844 --> 0:01:25.084 Then we'll talk ketchup on our NCAA brackets recap, for example, 0:01:25.164 --> 0:01:27.724 how team Nate so far in the lead against Team 0:01:27.724 --> 0:01:31.924 Maria and Monty. And we'll talk about women's basketball and 0:01:32.244 --> 0:01:35.604 why on earth are women not allowed to join the 0:01:35.644 --> 0:01:38.124 WNBA until twenty two years old. 0:01:42.804 --> 0:01:45.444 Let's get into it, Nate, but before we do, you moved. 0:01:45.644 --> 0:01:47.444 You are now in a new apartment. 0:01:48.364 --> 0:01:52.364 Now I moved from a neighborhood which might generously be 0:01:52.404 --> 0:01:54.924 called Chelsea, but really is South Penn Station. 0:01:55.204 --> 0:01:58.124 To thank you, name you finally, now that you moved 0:01:58.164 --> 0:01:59.484 on final New. 0:01:59.444 --> 0:02:02.284 York Times On the New York Times Leader map, it 0:02:02.364 --> 0:02:07.364 was considered seventy percent Chelsea. All right, all right, Chelsea 0:02:07.684 --> 0:02:10.044 Midtown West High correct. 0:02:10.044 --> 0:02:12.284 Now that you're out of there, you can acknowledge that 0:02:12.364 --> 0:02:13.484 it really was not Chelsea. 0:02:13.684 --> 0:02:15.524 No, And like there is something about being like in 0:02:15.564 --> 0:02:20.964 an actual like neighborhood. Yea, Like you know, South Penn 0:02:21.724 --> 0:02:25.644 Northeast Chelsea as I call it, serves kind of this 0:02:25.764 --> 0:02:28.124 transient community, right, so people commuting in and out of 0:02:28.124 --> 0:02:30.404 the city. It's there are some working spaces there, right, 0:02:31.044 --> 0:02:34.204 people go into Nixon Rangers games. I like Nick and Rangers, right, 0:02:34.244 --> 0:02:37.564 But like you know, Massiesquare Garden like dominates in some 0:02:37.604 --> 0:02:40.364 ways that profile the neighborhood. And so yeah, this is 0:02:40.364 --> 0:02:42.604 a real neighborhood. And like they're you know, I'm reading 0:02:42.644 --> 0:02:45.164 the esperate climb. But there's an abundance, right, Not only 0:02:45.204 --> 0:02:48.924 do you have your independent coffee shops in the morning, right, 0:02:48.964 --> 0:02:54.164 you have your French Vietnamese independent coffee shop on your 0:02:54.204 --> 0:02:59.884 Scandinavian independent coffee shop. Right, you have your vaguely Russian, 0:02:59.964 --> 0:03:03.644 Eastern European, mostly vegetarian wine bar. It's like, and they're 0:03:03.684 --> 0:03:04.444 all pretty fucking good. 0:03:04.484 --> 0:03:06.684 Right, I'm glad you're now in your a new neighborhood. 0:03:06.844 --> 0:03:08.924 I'm glad you're finally moved, because, as we all know, 0:03:09.044 --> 0:03:13.404 moving sucks the process that is, So I'm glad that's 0:03:13.444 --> 0:03:16.404 behind you. Let's talk about something a little bit less fun. 0:03:16.444 --> 0:03:19.844 I mean, on some level it's kind of hilarious, which 0:03:19.924 --> 0:03:24.004 is that this week there was an absolute bombshell You know, 0:03:24.044 --> 0:03:26.084 bombshell is usually overused, but I feel like this was 0:03:26.124 --> 0:03:30.044 a bombshell piece in the Atlantic, unprecedented as far as 0:03:30.084 --> 0:03:34.004 I can tell, in the amples of national security, where 0:03:34.084 --> 0:03:37.804 Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor in chief of the Atlantic, was 0:03:37.964 --> 0:03:44.604 inadvertently included on a signal chat with members top members 0:03:44.644 --> 0:03:49.164 of US national security that we're discussing a then imminent 0:03:49.404 --> 0:03:53.884 attack on the whoties. Let's start off by just talking 0:03:53.884 --> 0:03:58.404 about info sec or information security and how the fuck 0:03:58.684 --> 0:04:00.404 something like this happens. 0:04:00.804 --> 0:04:05.204 Well, no, I am a top Information security is my 0:04:05.244 --> 0:04:08.924 top issue. Right. The reason I voted for Donald Trump 0:04:08.924 --> 0:04:11.084 and twin Syxs teenage because of Hiller Clinton's email server. 0:04:11.204 --> 0:04:14.324 I thought that was the most important story in the country. 0:04:14.444 --> 0:04:16.524 I thought there was too little press coverage of it. 0:04:16.644 --> 0:04:20.884 If anything, Sorry, I vote for Trump. 0:04:21.724 --> 0:04:24.044 Yes, everyone who thought that they was serious night did 0:04:24.084 --> 0:04:27.524 not vote for Trump in twenty sixteen. This was he 0:04:27.684 --> 0:04:29.164 was being sarcastic. 0:04:29.204 --> 0:04:32.164 Are you a group chat girl? Person? 0:04:32.964 --> 0:04:35.884 I am only in a few group chats, and those 0:04:35.924 --> 0:04:38.564 group chats are like three people, you know, Like I'm 0:04:38.564 --> 0:04:40.404 in a group chat with you and your partner. Yeah, 0:04:40.684 --> 0:04:43.644 And I'm in a similar group chat with you know, 0:04:43.684 --> 0:04:46.244 my college roommates and a few others. But i hate 0:04:46.364 --> 0:04:47.004 group chats. 0:04:47.124 --> 0:04:49.164 Yeah, I'm not a big awful. I'm not a big 0:04:49.284 --> 0:04:51.124 I think it's probably because now this is where I 0:04:51.164 --> 0:04:53.444 sound like a fucking snob, right, But like Maria, you 0:04:53.484 --> 0:04:55.844 and I like have we're kind of like we're able 0:04:55.844 --> 0:04:58.444 to communicate. We kind of communicate professionally for a living, right, 0:04:58.484 --> 0:05:00.244 And so like I could see the value of like 0:05:00.244 --> 0:05:02.644 a group chat if like, if you want this cool 0:05:02.804 --> 0:05:05.284 people that you're like who care about your opinions, right, 0:05:06.364 --> 0:05:08.204 But like if you're writing all the time, I'm like, 0:05:08.204 --> 0:05:10.244 it's with emails too. I want to fucking write a 0:05:10.324 --> 0:05:12.964 long email. Now I'm making a fucking newsletter. Montize that 0:05:12.964 --> 0:05:17.524 shit talk about in the podcast Monetize that shit. I'm 0:05:17.524 --> 0:05:19.004 not giving free stuff away in group chats. 0:05:19.004 --> 0:05:22.404 Sorry, no, that's absolutely true. So I've had to set 0:05:22.444 --> 0:05:25.604 up group chats a few times for various reasons, and 0:05:25.844 --> 0:05:29.884 whenever I do, I'm actually super paranoid about putting the 0:05:29.884 --> 0:05:32.724 wrong person in the group chat. So Nate, for instance, 0:05:32.764 --> 0:05:34.924 let me use you as an example, because I've had 0:05:34.924 --> 0:05:38.524 to add you to group chats for scheduling purposes, and 0:05:39.004 --> 0:05:42.564 I have several Nates in my phone, and you are 0:05:42.684 --> 0:05:44.964 never the first Nate to come up, probably because you 0:05:44.964 --> 0:05:47.924 don't have an iPhone, so my iPhone doesn't like that 0:05:48.084 --> 0:05:50.684 and always is like, no, don't, don't use this Nate. 0:05:51.084 --> 0:05:54.804 And so you know, barstool Nate, he is also in 0:05:54.884 --> 0:05:56.924 my phone, Wow, And he is the one who is 0:05:57.004 --> 0:06:01.444 always coming up before you. And I am always paranoid, Sorry, 0:06:01.484 --> 0:06:04.524 barstool Nate, but I'm always paranoid that I'm going to 0:06:04.564 --> 0:06:07.244 add the wrong Nate to one of these things. And 0:06:07.284 --> 0:06:09.724 I triple check to make sure that you know, I 0:06:09.764 --> 0:06:12.444 don't inadvertently say, you know, Ad, and I'm adding the 0:06:12.484 --> 0:06:17.004 wrong person now I'm only highlighting this to say, Okay, 0:06:17.204 --> 0:06:19.964 when you're starting a group chat, and this is just 0:06:19.964 --> 0:06:23.244 about scheduling, you probably care about who's in it. Now, 0:06:23.324 --> 0:06:26.884 imagine your schedule. You're doing a group chat about bombing 0:06:27.244 --> 0:06:31.444 a country, right, or bombing a group? Shouldn't you double check, 0:06:31.484 --> 0:06:34.364 triple check, quadruple joke? I mean, okay, wait, what am 0:06:34.404 --> 0:06:37.044 I even talking about? Why are we starting a group 0:06:37.124 --> 0:06:41.644 chat about national security? Rule number one? And you probably 0:06:41.684 --> 0:06:44.524 have learned this as a journalist. You never put anything 0:06:44.524 --> 0:06:47.444 in an email or in a chat that you don't 0:06:47.564 --> 0:06:49.444 want on the front page of the New York Times, 0:06:49.524 --> 0:06:51.124 potentially because. 0:06:51.164 --> 0:06:52.684 And that's the other reason why I don't like, I'm 0:06:52.684 --> 0:06:55.204 pretty circumctanted about what to say over email or even 0:06:55.804 --> 0:06:59.404 you know, even a private event. I'm just careful about 0:06:59.404 --> 0:07:01.284 what I gues say, whereas I kind of in call, 0:07:01.324 --> 0:07:03.124 you know, I say lots of shit like yeah, well 0:07:03.164 --> 0:07:05.764 the podcast and on Twitter and whatever else in the newsletter, 0:07:05.804 --> 0:07:09.764 but like, but yeah, I don't assume that things stay 0:07:09.964 --> 0:07:13.324 private without like explicit Yeah, understand. 0:07:13.004 --> 0:07:16.364 You can't assume they stay private, and you can't assume 0:07:16.724 --> 0:07:19.324 that things don't get passed along. That basically the only 0:07:19.364 --> 0:07:21.484 people who see them are going to be the people 0:07:21.524 --> 0:07:24.844 who you are sending them to. So nothing should be 0:07:24.884 --> 0:07:28.964 done over chat that is sensitive. That's not how you 0:07:29.004 --> 0:07:32.764 communicate national security, that's not how you communicate war plans. 0:07:33.044 --> 0:07:35.204 But in this case, that is what happened. Now. One 0:07:35.244 --> 0:07:37.804 of the things I learned when I was back when 0:07:37.804 --> 0:07:41.404 I was working on the Confidence Game, I actually talk 0:07:41.484 --> 0:07:44.084 to a lot of people who do information security, who 0:07:44.124 --> 0:07:47.524 do cybersecurity, because hacking and you know that that kind 0:07:47.524 --> 0:07:51.124 of social engineering is huge for con artists. And they 0:07:51.204 --> 0:07:52.884 all told me, I don't care what kind of a 0:07:52.884 --> 0:07:55.644 security system you have, you know, I don't care how 0:07:56.084 --> 0:07:58.564 up to date you are, who's your you know, who 0:07:58.604 --> 0:08:01.284 does your infosec all of this stuff. You're only as 0:08:01.284 --> 0:08:03.804 strong as your weakest human link. And it's always going 0:08:03.844 --> 0:08:06.124 to be human. It's never going to be technological, right, 0:08:06.164 --> 0:08:09.364 there's always going to be that dumb person. And if 0:08:09.404 --> 0:08:12.404 I can get to that dumb person, then I can 0:08:12.404 --> 0:08:14.404 take you down, right, I don't, I don't. I can 0:08:14.404 --> 0:08:17.204 get behind any firewall, I can get past anything. And 0:08:17.244 --> 0:08:20.684 this that's just like one oh one ABC, And this 0:08:21.004 --> 0:08:24.364 is like the textbook case of wait. I didn't even 0:08:24.404 --> 0:08:27.324 need to do anything, right, you just fucked up so 0:08:27.484 --> 0:08:32.084 badly that you know you just here here is the 0:08:32.084 --> 0:08:34.484 weakest link, and the weakest link happens to be at 0:08:34.484 --> 0:08:36.684 the top of our national intelligence. 0:08:37.324 --> 0:08:40.804 So one thing I'd say is you are bringing a 0:08:40.804 --> 0:08:42.604 lot of people that don't have a lot of experience 0:08:42.644 --> 0:08:47.524 in government. Right. I listened to the as Recline podcast 0:08:47.644 --> 0:08:49.404 with I think it was Ben Buchanan, who was like 0:08:49.444 --> 0:08:53.764 a basically one of Biden's heads of AI policy, and 0:08:53.844 --> 0:08:55.684 he's like, yeah, you go into the government and like 0:08:56.164 --> 0:08:58.404 there are rooms where you're not allowed to use the internet, 0:08:58.444 --> 0:09:00.884 and there are all these protocols that are quite cumbersome, 0:09:00.924 --> 0:09:02.364 and if you come from the private sector, I'm sure 0:09:02.364 --> 0:09:05.444 it's like extremely annoying. Right. And so the fact that like, 0:09:06.124 --> 0:09:08.604 you know, JD. Van's only two years in government, right, 0:09:09.884 --> 0:09:12.484 Pete Haig Stiff no years and government less, I'm forgetting 0:09:12.484 --> 0:09:14.644 about something, Right. You bring in people that are like 0:09:14.644 --> 0:09:16.964 our kind of Fox and count I think, you know, 0:09:17.044 --> 0:09:19.684 it's kind of could be state on media. I don't know, 0:09:20.964 --> 0:09:22.884 but yeah, you're bringing people who like are just like, hey, 0:09:22.924 --> 0:09:24.324 we're kind of treating this like a group chat, like 0:09:24.324 --> 0:09:28.004 we're negotiating some VC deal or whatever, and like, on 0:09:28.044 --> 0:09:30.364 the one hand, it's kind of like, how do I 0:09:30.364 --> 0:09:33.324 put this, the casualness of the language, I'm not you know, 0:09:33.324 --> 0:09:36.764 I don't think any of them come off especially badly 0:09:36.884 --> 0:09:38.764 in the text that are referent. I mean, if anything, 0:09:38.764 --> 0:09:42.524 they're kind of like, if anything that seemed like, I mean, 0:09:42.564 --> 0:09:45.204 there are internal politics, Like Steven Miller comes in. He's 0:09:45.204 --> 0:09:48.004 the kind of Trump advisor and he's like, don't go 0:09:48.084 --> 0:09:50.404 too far and interpreting crumps shit, right, and then they 0:09:50.444 --> 0:09:52.764 kind of shut up, right, But like, but you know, look, 0:09:52.764 --> 0:09:55.884 I'm sure Jadi Vance is a smart guy, right, I 0:09:55.964 --> 0:09:57.644 think he might be in over his debt. I think 0:09:57.684 --> 0:09:59.844 he's like a smart guy. And it's kind of fun 0:09:59.844 --> 0:10:02.164 to watch them to chatting. But yeah, why is this journalist? 0:10:03.364 --> 0:10:05.404 Why is this journalist copied on this chain? 0:10:06.204 --> 0:10:09.604 Yeah? And and no one and no one catch which 0:10:09.604 --> 0:10:12.644 is that he's on the chain at any point and 0:10:12.844 --> 0:10:15.484 apparently so we don't know, but apparently there are very 0:10:15.484 --> 0:10:19.444 sensitive details shared. And at this point, so just in 0:10:19.524 --> 0:10:23.124 terms of journalistic ethics, you know, people are joking and saying, 0:10:23.124 --> 0:10:24.764 you know, you're a journalist, why didn't you stay in 0:10:24.804 --> 0:10:28.964 the chat? Well, it's because Jeffrey Goldberg actually understands the 0:10:29.324 --> 0:10:31.444 repercussions of this, and at the moment that this was 0:10:31.484 --> 0:10:34.284 actually said that this is that this is correct right, 0:10:34.324 --> 0:10:36.404 that this isn't because at first he didn't know if 0:10:36.404 --> 0:10:38.524 this was a spoof or like what this was right? 0:10:38.924 --> 0:10:41.324 But once it was confirmed that this is legit, he left. 0:10:42.484 --> 0:10:45.884 And I think that that is the ethical thing to do. 0:10:46.004 --> 0:10:49.284 Although there's obviously a part of me that is like, oh, 0:10:49.364 --> 0:10:51.364 but what else could you have learned? But I think 0:10:51.364 --> 0:10:54.724 that that is the ethical and the legally safer thing 0:10:54.804 --> 0:10:58.164 to do, because you know, people will try, I think, 0:10:57.964 --> 0:11:01.124 to come after him, and it was smart to leave. 0:11:02.004 --> 0:11:05.524 I think you can debate it. I mean, look fundamentally, Okay, 0:11:05.604 --> 0:11:09.244 let's let's ask you. Let's say that you're added to 0:11:09.284 --> 0:11:11.204 the group chat. What do you what do you do? 0:11:11.564 --> 0:11:15.964 Well? I think at first, especially given you know my 0:11:15.964 --> 0:11:18.444 my background and the books that I've written, the book 0:11:18.484 --> 0:11:21.444 I'm working on, I would assume that it's fake. I 0:11:21.444 --> 0:11:23.764 mean that would be my initial assumption. How could you 0:11:23.884 --> 0:11:25.124 not assume that it's fake? 0:11:25.164 --> 0:11:28.364 When he did say until he kind of performed this 0:11:28.484 --> 0:11:30.564 out of sample test where he, like I guess, he 0:11:30.604 --> 0:11:33.364 said he drove to they make a movie about it, right, 0:11:34.564 --> 0:11:38.164 wrote he drives to some suburban grocery store and waits 0:11:38.164 --> 0:11:40.244 in a parking lot, and it was like, well, if 0:11:40.284 --> 0:11:42.844 they announced in the next fifteen minutes that were bombing Yemen, right, 0:11:42.924 --> 0:11:46.124 and this is real? This is real and yeah, and 0:11:47.404 --> 0:11:50.084 the Trump people kind of caught off guard, kind of 0:11:51.564 --> 0:11:54.924 did acknowledge this was a real chat. Right. Where their 0:11:54.964 --> 0:11:56.684 heads will roll because of this, I don't know, probably 0:11:56.684 --> 0:11:57.884 depends on who Trump's mad at it. 0:11:58.004 --> 0:12:01.604 Yeah, I doubt heads will roll, And I think that 0:12:01.684 --> 0:12:05.684 probably the the two heads that might roll are the 0:12:05.724 --> 0:12:08.004 head of the person who acknowledged that it was real 0:12:08.124 --> 0:12:11.644 immediately and Goldberg, right, like, they're they're going to try 0:12:11.644 --> 0:12:13.404 to find a way to pin this on him instead, 0:12:14.284 --> 0:12:18.404 because that is there, you know initially, you know, the 0:12:19.164 --> 0:12:22.444 when Pete Hegsas was asked about this, he said, oh, 0:12:22.444 --> 0:12:25.644 it's fake, this isn't real, right, but the government had 0:12:25.684 --> 0:12:28.004 already acknowledged that it was very much real. 0:12:28.804 --> 0:12:30.444 Have you ever gotten a scoop just by kind of 0:12:30.444 --> 0:12:31.484 being in the reference at the right time. 0:12:31.564 --> 0:12:34.484 Yeah, I have. I have, especially because I'm female and 0:12:34.484 --> 0:12:36.924 so people tend to forget that I exist as an 0:12:37.004 --> 0:12:39.644 actual person. With a brain. No, it's true. It's true. 0:12:39.724 --> 0:12:41.964 It's true. I can, like I blend into the background 0:12:42.044 --> 0:12:45.684 and people forget to take me into account. I'm assuming 0:12:45.684 --> 0:12:49.084 with you, it's probably less likely that people are you. 0:12:49.004 --> 0:12:50.604 Know, it's always just thing like kind of what people 0:12:50.684 --> 0:12:54.164 And it's probably as different if you're male and in 0:12:54.164 --> 0:12:57.924 white whatever, you know, mistakenly taken for heterosexual in my case. 0:12:58.204 --> 0:13:00.564 But like what people feel comfortable sharing with you, I 0:13:00.564 --> 0:13:03.964 mean this is true even at the at the poker table, 0:13:04.044 --> 0:13:07.484 in both public games and private games and poker, there 0:13:07.564 --> 0:13:11.324 is kind of, I think a pretty strong unspoken understanding 0:13:11.364 --> 0:13:16.204 that like, you know, if something relates, if someone relates 0:13:16.204 --> 0:13:18.444 to me at the poker table, then if I don't 0:13:18.644 --> 0:13:22.844 have a relationship with them, right, I would kind of anonymize. Yeah, right, 0:13:23.364 --> 0:13:25.244 But people do have a lot of trust, right, I 0:13:25.244 --> 0:13:30.204 mean I've heard people discussing wildly illegal things at the 0:13:30.244 --> 0:13:31.484 poker Oh for sure. 0:13:31.644 --> 0:13:33.404 For sure, they do have a lot of trust, and 0:13:33.444 --> 0:13:36.684 they do often forget that you're a journalist and you 0:13:36.764 --> 0:13:39.844 do have to remind them. But but yeah, I think 0:13:39.964 --> 0:13:43.804 it's very interesting that not only Hexath, but like the 0:13:44.724 --> 0:13:48.284 Trump reaction to this was, you know, what's the aleotic 0:13:48.364 --> 0:13:50.284 failing magazine. Right, nobody cares. 0:13:50.044 --> 0:13:52.924 About this, I'm sure a million plus page yeah and. 0:13:52.884 --> 0:13:56.244 So and so if you if you think about, you know, 0:13:56.404 --> 0:14:00.764 what is ideal risk mitigation strategy? Right, like, Okay, you 0:14:00.844 --> 0:14:03.764 fuck up? What do you do now? 0:14:04.044 --> 0:14:04.164 Right? 0:14:04.244 --> 0:14:08.644 Like, from a risk management mitigation standpoint, what is the 0:14:08.684 --> 0:14:11.564 best thing to do next? And I would argue that 0:14:11.644 --> 0:14:14.284 the best thing, the way that people usually come off 0:14:14.284 --> 0:14:17.204 the best, and this comes from both organizations in on 0:14:17.244 --> 0:14:20.924 an individual level, is to immediately acknowledge it and be like, yeah, 0:14:21.004 --> 0:14:25.364 fucked up, sorry, and then like we'll get back to you, 0:14:25.764 --> 0:14:28.564 and then you know, issue whatever, apology, et cetera. But 0:14:28.684 --> 0:14:31.724 you always always always look a million times worse and 0:14:31.764 --> 0:14:34.444 it spirals out of control and it gets like a 0:14:34.684 --> 0:14:37.884 much bigger story. Right, It becomes much worse if you deny, 0:14:38.204 --> 0:14:40.364 it becomes much worse if you try to, you know, 0:14:40.364 --> 0:14:43.324 put a rug over it, me spill no, no, look, 0:14:43.644 --> 0:14:46.724 the floor is beautiful. And so I think that this 0:14:46.884 --> 0:14:50.324 is just being handled completely backwards. And you would think 0:14:50.404 --> 0:14:54.044 that people who have media training that's something he does have, 0:14:54.444 --> 0:14:57.364 would know better, right, would know that that always always 0:14:57.444 --> 0:15:00.484 always backfires. I don't think there's a single case that 0:15:00.524 --> 0:15:02.524 I can think of when it doesn't backfire, when the 0:15:02.564 --> 0:15:05.244 person looks better because they initially denied and then they 0:15:05.244 --> 0:15:06.604 were forced to acknowledge. 0:15:07.564 --> 0:15:11.284 So ignoring is often a good strategy. Right. There is 0:15:11.324 --> 0:15:14.524 a strissand effect thing where like the news cycle moves 0:15:14.524 --> 0:15:19.164 on quickly. So a lot of you'll pay expensive money 0:15:19.204 --> 0:15:22.444 for a PR person, or you'll have you know, if 0:15:22.644 --> 0:15:24.284 for a big corporation, that PR team will come in 0:15:24.324 --> 0:15:26.844 a lot of time to say, don't say anything. We'll 0:15:26.844 --> 0:15:29.844 do a little bit of work in the background with reporters. 0:15:29.884 --> 0:15:32.324 We're working on the story, but don't say anything. Go 0:15:33.284 --> 0:15:34.964 take go to the woods for a couple of days, 0:15:35.004 --> 0:15:37.204 and it'll probably go away. Right, Yeah, this is I mean, 0:15:37.204 --> 0:15:38.364 you know, if you're in the White House, it's a 0:15:38.404 --> 0:15:41.444 little bit different than this has national security implications. I mean, look, 0:15:41.484 --> 0:15:45.804 part of the issue is in general, you know, you're 0:15:45.884 --> 0:15:49.924 a powerful person. You're the vice president, or you're the 0:15:49.924 --> 0:15:52.404 secretary of Defense, or you're somebody who thinks you're kind 0:15:52.444 --> 0:15:56.044 of like doing some of the most important work in 0:15:56.084 --> 0:15:57.644 the world, and you're busy and you don't care that 0:15:57.724 --> 0:16:01.044 much about like security, Right, that's someone else's problem, and 0:16:01.084 --> 0:16:02.884 so it's kind of like the annoying thing that like, 0:16:03.084 --> 0:16:04.964 I'm mean, I'm worried about this, like in a lot 0:16:04.964 --> 0:16:10.244 of ways I'm worried about like hacking of a labs. 0:16:10.284 --> 0:16:15.324 And I'm sure they take it somewhat seriously, but like 0:16:15.844 --> 0:16:18.684 knowing that personality type, you know, I don't think they 0:16:18.684 --> 0:16:20.564 probably take it seriously enough. It's seen as like is 0:16:20.604 --> 0:16:23.164 pureaucratic shit. You have to like jump up. By the way, 0:16:23.324 --> 0:16:26.724 I tell you something, if you want to use the 0:16:26.724 --> 0:16:30.564 the men's bathroom at the at the Pushkin Studios in 0:16:30.644 --> 0:16:33.644 Flat Iron, there's a four digit code. I'm telling you 0:16:33.724 --> 0:16:37.204 it's it's not the most difficult code to guess. 0:16:40.244 --> 0:16:42.644 Speaking about information security. 0:16:42.204 --> 0:16:42.964 That's easiest. 0:16:45.924 --> 0:16:48.084 Well, you'd be you know, can we can we just 0:16:49.604 --> 0:16:53.124 go go way back in history. One of my favorite stories. 0:16:53.244 --> 0:16:56.444 I love the writing of Richard Feynman. I think you 0:16:56.484 --> 0:16:59.324 know he was a brilliant mind, brilliant writer, but he 0:16:59.364 --> 0:17:04.404 has a hilarious story about information security where he had 0:17:04.564 --> 0:17:10.364 a complete fascination with safe cracking, Like he would go 0:17:10.404 --> 0:17:12.284 down these rabbit holes with different things, and at some 0:17:12.284 --> 0:17:15.964 point he became fascinated with cryptography and safe cracking, and 0:17:16.604 --> 0:17:20.764 he became very adept at cracking into safes, and mostly 0:17:20.804 --> 0:17:22.844 how he did it wasn't he didn't you know, traind 0:17:22.844 --> 0:17:25.124 with criminals and you know, figure out, like in the movies, 0:17:25.164 --> 0:17:27.124 how do you listen to all of that? No, he 0:17:27.204 --> 0:17:30.124 figured out that it was always easy to get the 0:17:30.124 --> 0:17:32.964 code right because there was always a secretary who like 0:17:33.124 --> 0:17:36.284 had written it down somewhere or something like that. And 0:17:36.324 --> 0:17:39.324 then there was actually an incredibly important safe, and there 0:17:39.404 --> 0:17:42.444 was a series of them that had national security secret 0:17:42.764 --> 0:17:44.964 stuff because he worked in really important on you know, 0:17:45.044 --> 0:17:49.684 important projects, important energy projects, things that were highly classified. 0:17:50.364 --> 0:17:52.004 And he was like, oh, I wonder if I can 0:17:52.044 --> 0:17:55.804 crack into these safes, and he couldn't find anyone writing 0:17:55.804 --> 0:17:58.884 down the combination. He was striking out, and finally he 0:17:58.924 --> 0:18:00.284 was like, you know what, I'm going to try the 0:18:00.324 --> 0:18:03.244 factory code, and he did and the safe opened. 0:18:03.364 --> 0:18:05.244 Oh no, and he was like huh. 0:18:05.284 --> 0:18:06.684 So he went to the second one. There was three 0:18:06.684 --> 0:18:10.084 of them. He tried the factory code, the safe opened 0:18:10.124 --> 0:18:11.884 and the third one as well. So he wrote notes 0:18:11.884 --> 0:18:16.124 in all three and it was like yeah, and left 0:18:16.164 --> 0:18:18.364 them and then the guy opened them in the wrong 0:18:18.484 --> 0:18:21.284 order and didn't realize that it was fein men, you know, 0:18:21.484 --> 0:18:24.004 making a point and thought that they had been like 0:18:24.044 --> 0:18:26.764 severely compromised and freaked the fuck out as he should have. 0:18:28.204 --> 0:18:31.364 Just this goes to show, right that people are dumb. 0:18:31.964 --> 0:18:33.644 And I mean there are trade offs, right if you 0:18:33.724 --> 0:18:37.004 like need to go with draw money from your bank 0:18:37.124 --> 0:18:39.244 and they're like, you know, you face this as a 0:18:39.284 --> 0:18:41.284 poker player, right, They're like, what's it for. It's like, 0:18:41.324 --> 0:18:43.084 it's my fucking money. You have custody of it, right, 0:18:43.844 --> 0:18:44.364 give it to me. 0:18:44.604 --> 0:18:48.244 Yeah, and yeah, no, this there these these types of 0:18:48.244 --> 0:18:50.884 things happen all the time, and but I think we 0:18:50.924 --> 0:18:53.364 do need to be worried, like the bigger implication. I 0:18:53.404 --> 0:18:56.764 think there are a few big implications here. First, it happened, 0:18:56.924 --> 0:18:58.964 and they're saying, oh, well, it only happened once in 0:18:59.124 --> 0:19:01.764 two months. Okay. First of all, it's never happened. That's 0:19:02.164 --> 0:19:05.684 that it's never happened before. Like this is huge, and 0:19:05.804 --> 0:19:08.004 they're denying it. They're taking it like no big deal. 0:19:08.044 --> 0:19:10.164 It is a big deal, Like they were lucky that 0:19:10.164 --> 0:19:12.204 it was Jeffrey Goldberg and not someone else who was 0:19:12.204 --> 0:19:14.484 by mistake on this chat. By the way, maybe other 0:19:14.564 --> 0:19:17.604 people and other chats had other actors on there that 0:19:17.644 --> 0:19:19.924 were there by mistake, Like, this is a big deal. 0:19:20.284 --> 0:19:24.164 Information security is incredibly important. Denying is not the correct 0:19:24.204 --> 0:19:27.564 strategy if you want to mitigate risk. And we should 0:19:27.604 --> 0:19:30.084 be really really worried about this. This is not something 0:19:30.204 --> 0:19:31.044 that is. 0:19:31.604 --> 0:19:35.244 Like an't even supposed to have signal government phones. No, 0:19:35.284 --> 0:19:37.204 you're not saying private phones, which is kind of what 0:19:37.284 --> 0:19:39.324 people were mad about with Hillary, and like. 0:19:39.484 --> 0:19:42.164 Exactly, I mean everything about this, from start to finish 0:19:42.364 --> 0:19:44.524 is incredibly worrisome. So I mean. 0:19:44.404 --> 0:19:46.964 Triump Literally, do you know that if Anthony fucking Wiener 0:19:47.724 --> 0:19:51.324 hadn't been sexing? Right? Like, yeah, probably know, Clinton becomes president? 0:19:51.364 --> 0:19:53.524 Maybe trup because president in twenty twenty to be honest, right, 0:19:53.564 --> 0:19:54.724 and then what happens in twenty five? 0:19:54.724 --> 0:19:57.604 I don't know, right, But so many, so many stupid 0:19:57.644 --> 0:20:00.324 miss so much stupidity here and so much mail you go, 0:20:00.564 --> 0:20:03.644 I have to say that that results and things like this. 0:20:03.724 --> 0:20:06.564 But yes, from a risky business standpoint, this is one bad, 0:20:06.684 --> 0:20:13.364 risky decision after another. Nate, let's take a break and 0:20:13.444 --> 0:20:28.444 let's talk about some March madness. Brackets. Can we start 0:20:28.444 --> 0:20:33.484 with a spoiler alert? Nate is currently winning our brackets competition, and. 0:20:33.524 --> 0:20:36.244 Worse Maria and Monty have to root for Duke is 0:20:36.284 --> 0:20:37.804 their only pathway back to victory. 0:20:38.244 --> 0:20:38.964 And Tennessee. 0:20:40.724 --> 0:20:43.044 First of all, it's probably gonna put me further ahead, right, but. 0:20:43.084 --> 0:20:46.684 Like if Tennessee wins, it doesn't put you further ahead. 0:20:47.804 --> 0:20:50.364 Hundred dogs, Maria, I know, I know, but they might win. 0:20:50.564 --> 0:20:53.204 Yeah, and we have Purdue. We have one victor over Nate. 0:20:53.284 --> 0:20:55.044 So far, we had Purdue as a pick and Nate 0:20:55.084 --> 0:20:55.324 did not. 0:20:55.564 --> 0:21:00.284 Okay, what I have at a Colorado State? Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. 0:21:00.484 --> 0:21:03.684