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Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and Samantha and all good stuff

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Speaker 1: I've never told you production by Heart Radio, and today

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Speaker 1: we are bringing back a follow up to my recent

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Speaker 1: classic follow up on the cemin Roll, in which I

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Speaker 1: talked about some of the some of the things I

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Speaker 1: saw after being in the space for a minute and

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Speaker 1: writing in the space for a minute, and how I

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Speaker 1: was kind of intrigued by how sad it often was,

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Speaker 1: even though sinin roll.

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Speaker 2: Is so nice and wholesome.

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Speaker 1: So I was just curious about why that is. And

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Speaker 1: I was doing it too. I'd be like, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to write a happy story and suddenly I'm crying, and like, why.

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Speaker 2: You could be happy in a mineral wise is happening?

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Speaker 3: I think you're saying this as you're writing, in control

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Speaker 3: of this narrative. Why did I do this to you?

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Speaker 1: There's one story I wrote and I got to the end,

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Speaker 1: and at the end you can put an author's note,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I really intended for something else

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Speaker 1: to happen, but I just got to writing and this

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Speaker 1: is what came out. People were like, you know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: if you're really channeling a character and they're just gonna

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Speaker 1: go their own way, like, well, he went his own way. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie

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Speaker 1: and Samantha. I don't put this stuff. I never told

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Speaker 1: you production of iHeartRadio. It is Thursday, which means it is.

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Speaker 2: Time for another happy hour.

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Speaker 1: As always with the ease, drink responsibly if you choose

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Speaker 1: to do so. For today's drink, it has coffee in it.

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Speaker 2: And I'm breaking my two cups rule.

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Speaker 3: So are you're gonna say one of the cups for

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Speaker 3: this episode?

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Speaker 2: I was, But I did it. I did it. It's fair.

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Speaker 3: You do what you need to.

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Speaker 2: I think it'll be okay.

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Speaker 1: So, well, today we're talking about cinnamon rolls again, which

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Speaker 1: you can go and find. I believe it was my

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Speaker 1: very first happy hour I did. It was about cinnamon rolls,

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Speaker 1: the troupe where we discussed this drink. But Samantha, do

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Speaker 1: you want to describe kind of the basics.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think we've described it before. But essentially, it

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Speaker 3: is coffee and you'll get chocolate syrup or hot chocolate powder,

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Speaker 3: however you want to do it. Mix it in that

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Speaker 3: hot coffee, add a little dash of cinnamon so the

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Speaker 3: cinnamon roll part, and then you can use either creamer

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Speaker 3: Bailey's or not and add that into there, a little

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Speaker 3: bit of whiskey if you desire to add a little

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Speaker 3: more punch to it, whipped cream on top, a little

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Speaker 3: more cinnamon, and there you have any cinnamon roll?

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I am drinking mine out of the cemon

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Speaker 1: roll mug Samantha made me, which I adore.

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Speaker 2: I want to take it with me everywhere, but I'm

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Speaker 2: also very afraid it will break. So yeah.

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Speaker 3: Also, it's fifteen ounces, so it's not your regular.

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Speaker 2: Oh is that more or less?

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Speaker 3: That's more? Oh wow, coffee cup.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna have a good day then.

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Speaker 3: Right, So I'm like, not only did you add a

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Speaker 3: little more than your typical m so the three and

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Speaker 3: then some okay?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, oh you're fine, It'll be fine. Yes, I

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Speaker 2: do want to say.

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Speaker 1: When I was checking out, one of the women asked

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Speaker 1: me what the whipped cream was for and I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's just I'd like to put it on coffee.

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Speaker 1: And she acted like I was a genius and was

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Speaker 1: so excited to try it. And I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I put it on top coffee, a little cinnamon.

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Speaker 3: She was like, oh, has she never gone to that

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Speaker 3: Starbucks over there? They always put cream on coffee. I'm confused.

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Speaker 2: I think they were just being nice, Samantha.

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Speaker 3: Also why she was asking you about web cream? What

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Speaker 3: that was super personal?

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Speaker 2: And be like, I have a date, it's a activity.

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Speaker 3: I have a friend coming over. That's all you say.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I wasn't looking to mess with the kind

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Speaker 1: woman checking me out, But I see where your head goes.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying, that's such a weird question. I guess

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Speaker 3: maybe they're just being nice, but like, still, you're like,

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Speaker 3: why you never know what you're gonna get with things

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Speaker 3: like a whipped cream?

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Speaker 2: That's true, she thought it was pie, so, you know,

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Speaker 2: pretty innocent. Innocent. Speaking of innocent, what we're.

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Speaker 1: Talking about today is we're revisiting the idea of cinnamon

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Speaker 1: rules again because I've been thinking a lot about this

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Speaker 1: this topic because obvious, I love cinnamon rolls, which is

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Speaker 1: the trope, which is essentially someone who's really innocent, who's

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Speaker 1: really sweet, really bright, like a light a damn sweetheart,

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Speaker 1: as I like to say. And I also like reading

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Speaker 1: terribly sad things about them and also writing terribly sad

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Speaker 1: things happening to them, and I keep finding myself shouting

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Speaker 1: you can be happy, Cinnamon.

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Speaker 2: Roll, let y'rself be happy.

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Speaker 1: And once again I find that that says something about

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Speaker 1: my self trauma and self esteem and particularly in this case,

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Speaker 1: happiness and Samantha knows like you, along with a bunch

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Speaker 1: of my other friends, have been getting my fan fiction updates,

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Speaker 1: and this one in particular, where it's just like wrecking

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Speaker 1: me so sad.

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Speaker 3: And the author it sounds like.

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Speaker 1: Yes. And I recently had one update where the author

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna split this chapter in half because

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Speaker 1: it's so sad and you're gonna want to take a

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Speaker 1: break in the middle, and I was like, dang, true. Correct,

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Speaker 1: But I've been thinking about this whole idea for me

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Speaker 1: when a lot of times in these stories and when

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Speaker 1: I write them, and I think when I would describe

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Speaker 1: them to you, you'd probably think that doesn't sound as

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Speaker 1: sad as what you've been making it out to be,

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Speaker 1: because it is really really sad, but it's not like

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Speaker 1: the level of crying I have done. And I think

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Speaker 1: part of that is it's something I really connect to

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Speaker 1: where the cinnamon role doesn't feel like they deserve.

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Speaker 2: Happiness or that they are worthy.

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Speaker 1: Of happiness, and there's something about that level of insecurity

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Speaker 1: and low self esteem that I just connect to you

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Speaker 1: really strongly, and I find absolutely heartbreaking. And I think

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Speaker 1: there is a level two of selflessness. I get selfish

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Speaker 1: to think of your own happiness, and we've talked about

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Speaker 1: how that's often weaponized against women in particular and especially

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Speaker 1: when it comes to raising children. That's something that comes

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Speaker 1: up in a lot of these two of like a

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Speaker 1: key trade of the Cinnamon role is they are selfless.

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Speaker 1: But then when they do want something for themselves, when

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Speaker 1: I want them like you can be happy, they think

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Speaker 1: that that's bad or wrong and they don't deserve it,

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Speaker 1: and they'll feel guilty about being happy about like staying

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Speaker 1: in one place allowing themselves to have happiness. And this

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Speaker 1: is my favorite kind of tragedy, even though it makes

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Speaker 1: me so sad, is when you could be happy, but

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Speaker 1: you get in your own way, or you believe you

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Speaker 1: don't deserve it, and even though people are trying to

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Speaker 1: build you up and support you and giving you all

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Speaker 1: these options, you don't choose them because you don't think

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Speaker 1: you deserve it. And that's the fan fiction that I've

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Speaker 1: written that I've talked about. My Quarantine baby is five

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Speaker 1: hundred plus pages. That's essentially how it ends, as like

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Speaker 1: this really tragic, deciding that it would be better for

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Speaker 1: yourself to suffer for like ever essentially to help other

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Speaker 1: people as opposed to letting yourself be happy. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this whole idea of like people feeling that people

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Speaker 1: are better off without you, that you want to shrink

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Speaker 1: and not bother anybody I've talked about That's how I

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Speaker 1: have operated, and I've like almost lost friendships over it

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Speaker 1: because people have misinterpreted it. And also it can be

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Speaker 1: very selfish because you're not thinking about what the other

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Speaker 1: person wants, or you don't believe them when they say

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Speaker 1: that they want to hang out with you or that

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Speaker 1: they want you in your lives can be hard, Like

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Speaker 1: we talked about that a lot too, for any marginalized person,

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Speaker 1: it can be hard to tell yourself that you have

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Speaker 1: self worth when there's so many things telling you.

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Speaker 2: That you have no value.

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Speaker 1: And also like this whole idea of can you be

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Speaker 1: happy alone and if you are, what does that say?

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Speaker 1: And feeling like you need someone to validate you and

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Speaker 1: your happiness, your existence, your legitimacy, Like.

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Speaker 2: That's not good either. But I just find it interesting.

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Speaker 1: That that's what I've been connecting to so strongly, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm almost on a precipice smit. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I like I'm at a part of healing

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Speaker 1: because I do I want this fictional person to be happy.

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Speaker 1: And I think that, like we talked about in the

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Speaker 1: original Cinnamon role one, that's one of the things I

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Speaker 1: think for me, at least, the connection to trauma is

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Speaker 1: this fictional person is much easier in a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways to connect to you and to feel bad forward,

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Speaker 1: to feel like it's not their fault or x what

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Speaker 1: like this strong person went through this and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's their fault.

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Speaker 2: Then it wasn't my fault either. And so like me

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Speaker 2: shouting at.

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Speaker 1: My computer, let yourself be happy, cinemoal, you can be happy.

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Speaker 2: It does feel like a step I've made, a step up.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 3: I think it's funny because perhaps this is just like

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Speaker 3: owning your own self and having a moment of self reflection,

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Speaker 3: of being able to root for that when before you

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Speaker 3: were just like this is dethlate, it's not gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, yeah, And I mean that's the saddest part

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Speaker 1: for me of a lot of this is.

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Speaker 2: That being as a reader or as.

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Speaker 1: A writer in some case like it's cruel, but it's

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Speaker 1: almost like you think you could be happy, Well you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna be happy in the end. Yeah, which is terrible,

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Speaker 1: but that is like my favorite type of tragedy, which

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Speaker 1: I know is weird to have a favorite type, but

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Speaker 1: that is. But yeah, and there's this kind of whole

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Speaker 1: idea of being afraid of your own happiness and letting

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Speaker 1: yourself be happy. You've talked about the comparison game, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like, especially over the past few years that

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Speaker 1: have been so tough and dark, it is it is hard.

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Speaker 1: It feels wrong to be happy, right, or to let

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Speaker 1: yourself be happy right.

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Speaker 3: There's definitely guilt and being like, oh everything is okay.

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Speaker 3: I think we've talked about this before when my friends

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Speaker 3: were all in upheaval and then I'm okay. It doesn't

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Speaker 3: feel natural, right because A I'm typically the one in crisis,

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Speaker 3: or B being okay when everybody else is down doesn't

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Speaker 3: feel like I'm being supportive for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an odd aspect of human nature.

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Speaker 2: It makes sense, especially when you're an empathetic person.

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Speaker 1: That feeling happy or feeling okay when other people aren't

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Speaker 1: does somehow feel like selfish or guilty or wrong when

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Speaker 1: it shouldn't, especially if you you're helping and supporting in

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Speaker 1: ways that you can. But yeah, that's that I feel.

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Speaker 1: It's something I still struggle with, and I'll almost like,

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Speaker 1: if I catch myself feeling happy, I'll come up with

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Speaker 1: reasons not to be happy sometimes or or just feel

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Speaker 1: like an extreme amount of guilt about it, And especially

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Speaker 1: because I do live alone, and I'll just get my

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Speaker 1: head about, like what is any of my existence even made.

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Speaker 2: It feels weird.

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Speaker 1: Something else that we've discussed before is especially I can't

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Speaker 1: speak for other cultures, but especially in the United States,

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Speaker 1: I feel like there is an air of.

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Speaker 2: Like being happy.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to word it exactly, but it's

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Speaker 1: you should always be striving for more, like you're never

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Speaker 1: going to be happy with what youpp you should always

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Speaker 1: be pushing for more.

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Speaker 2: And if you're happy, that's almost.

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Speaker 1: Like a weak thing, like a weakness, like we know

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Speaker 1: we kind of have glorified pain and suffering or working

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Speaker 1: or always being stressed in an odd way, like kind

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Speaker 1: of going back to that whole workaholic thing or never

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Speaker 1: taking a vacation. Here in the US, it's like we've

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Speaker 1: turned happiness into or admitting you need these spaces to

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Speaker 1: be happy into a weak thing, right.

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Speaker 3: Contentment is not okay. That means you've given up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and you can't really talk about it, or

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Speaker 1: if you do, usually it's in terms of like something

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Speaker 1: you've accomplished, which is absolutely something to be happy about

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Speaker 1: and be pleased with.

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Speaker 2: But I feel like that's sort of the one area.

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Speaker 1: And even then sometimes people will be like, well, she's

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Speaker 1: bragging or XYZ shouldn't have been talking about this, and

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Speaker 1: oh gosh, it's happiness.

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Speaker 2: Shouldn't be so complicated that it is in a lot

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Speaker 2: of ways.

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Speaker 3: Of course, there's also the there's a difference between happiness

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Speaker 3: and contentment and faking it, yeah, and or trying to

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Speaker 3: outdo someone and outshine someone. There's always that too, that

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Speaker 3: level of also reading the room.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's very important, but it's absolutely true. Very good point,

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Speaker 2: very very good point.

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Speaker 1: And I think again, during our really like time of

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Speaker 1: being just massive upheaval where we're all more connected than ever,

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Speaker 1: that can be harder than ever as well, because I'll

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Speaker 1: just gip my head about like I feel like I

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Speaker 1: can't post anything on social media because there's so much suffering,

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Speaker 1: which again, there is a difference between like reading the

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Speaker 1: room and just shutting down completely, right, But yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: definitely important to this whole thing. And also, you know,

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Speaker 1: happiness looks different for different people, and and finding out

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Speaker 1: what that means to you can just be a whole thing.

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Speaker 1: And especially you know, as I've gone through like how

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Speaker 1: do I identify sexually and what does like my being

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Speaker 1: happy in a relationship or not being in a relationship

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Speaker 1: looks like, and all of that stuff, I've been thinking

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Speaker 1: about it. And you can't be happy all the time,

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Speaker 1: of course, but it's this idea that I've been like

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Speaker 1: too afraid to even let myself believe that's an option

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Speaker 1: to be happy, and then the idea that maybe I

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Speaker 1: could be but I'm just too afraid to do it

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Speaker 1: or too afraid to fight for it or whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: And I'm making it sound like I'm miserable all the time.

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Speaker 1: But this is kind of what has been going through

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Speaker 1: my head as I'm like reading these stories and connecting

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Speaker 1: with them so hard and trying to figure out why

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Speaker 1: I'm connecting with them so hard, and why this is

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Speaker 1: what I write is that the people that I write

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Speaker 1: consistently don't let themselves be happy and don't choose happiness.

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Speaker 1: And so I've just been trying to work through why

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Speaker 1: that is and why that does restate with me so much.

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Speaker 2: And I think I think that's good to think about.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people have been thinking

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Speaker 1: about what happiness really means to them instead of like

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Speaker 1: what they think it should be, what they think it

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Speaker 1: should look like. And obviously, again with the whole cinnamon

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Speaker 1: roll trope, I personally do think a lot of trauma

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Speaker 1: is involved in that whole thing.

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Speaker 2: And the idea is almost like they.

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Speaker 1: Go through all this stuff and yet they are still

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Speaker 1: this beautiful, bright, happy whatever, whatever, whatever. But this is

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Speaker 1: the one area where they can't. The trauma shines is

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Speaker 1: that they have low self worth. They can't be they

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Speaker 1: can't allow themselves to be quote unquote selfish or to

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Speaker 1: choose something for them that they want that would make

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Speaker 1: them happy because they think they don't deserve it, because

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Speaker 1: they haven't done enough, or.

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Speaker 2: Whatever it is anyway.

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Speaker 3: Not I mean, they could be necessarily about you, but

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Speaker 3: for a lot of people it could be also the

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Speaker 3: difference in seeing themselves in a more dramatic manner than

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Speaker 3: it is the reality. And so this was like, yes,

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Speaker 3: this is me even though it's really not you, but

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Speaker 3: it could be had you been in this fantasy life.

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Speaker 3: But also being that if you have a sadder, more

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Speaker 3: disposition that if you want to be a main character,

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Speaker 3: this would be the main character that you see yourself being.

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Speaker 3: So there's a whole lot of reflection on that. Also

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Speaker 3: to note, for those of you who go into friendships

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Speaker 3: and relationships who for the most part feel guilty about

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Speaker 3: being happy, there could be something to be said about

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Speaker 3: the relationships you're having in that if they're not celebrating

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Speaker 3: with you, there's something wrong. There's a thing to be

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Speaker 3: able to, yes, commiserate together, but they should be able

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Speaker 3: to celebrate with you as well, So there should be

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Speaker 3: an even stead even with the worst parts of your day,

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Speaker 3: you should be able to celebrate something. There's something to

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Speaker 3: be said to have someone in your corner who see

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Speaker 3: you and backs you and is able to encourage you

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Speaker 3: even in the worst parts of the day. So there's

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Speaker 3: a lot to everything to that. If you only have

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Speaker 3: friendships that only make you feel guilty for being happy.

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Speaker 3: There's something wrong with that friendship, Yes, just to put

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Speaker 3: that out there.

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Speaker 1: For sure, And I think, I mean most of what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about is more of what I the hole

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Speaker 1: you are not allowed, Like the person in the relationship

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Speaker 1: is like, let me help you, and you're like no,

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Speaker 1: because I don't deserve it. Right, But yes, Also if

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Speaker 1: you do make that space and the other person is

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Speaker 1: making you feel guilty, then that's the different thing.

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Speaker 2: Not healthy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, neither one is good, right, like right, you

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Speaker 1: need to figure out where that is.

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Speaker 3: I think I think more of that on social media,

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Speaker 3: where it's constantly how dare you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that becomes a toxic level of like, but it's nice.

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Speaker 3: It's okay to have a moment of niceness, whether it's

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Speaker 3: you got to sit by yourself and sure, yeah, we

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Speaker 3: don't necessarily need the Kim Kardashian renting out island during

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Speaker 3: the pandemic, be like, look at how happy I am.

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Speaker 3: We don't. That's not reading the room. That's a different

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Speaker 3: level saying I'm with someone and we're happy and we're

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Speaker 3: content baking of bread. That's not a bad thing, right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I mean find happiness where you can that

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Speaker 1: doesn't hurt other people and its healthy absolutely, but as

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Speaker 1: Samantha knows, we're about to embark on a tragedy.

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Speaker 2: Comfort there we go. This is like.

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Speaker 1: My favorite, my favorite thing obviously in the fiction realm,

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Speaker 1: not in the real world.

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Speaker 2: But I have been telling people about.

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Speaker 1: It and they're like, what what are you doing. Basically,

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Speaker 1: We're going to watch a bunch of sad things and

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Speaker 1: eat a lot of soup. So we're gonna be sad

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Speaker 1: and then.

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Speaker 3: Comforted lots of soup. People.

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Speaker 1: I love soup, so I'm very excited. Well listeners, As always,

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Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. Cheers, kills, happy

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Speaker 1: happy hour. If you would like to email us, you

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Speaker 1: can or email Stuff mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast

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Speaker 1: or on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for always to our super producer Christina, thank you, and

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Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening.

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Speaker 2: STUFFE Never Told You the direction of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.