1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. We have a new show launching on 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: our network. It's called She Makes Money Moves, and it's 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: hosted by Glamour Editor in chief Samantha Berry. It is 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: all about money, like its name suggests, especially how money 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: relates to women, and to go along with that theme, 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: Today's classic episode is our August episode on Hetty Green. 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: She was one of the wealthiest women in the United 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: States in her day, but her eccentric behavior and her 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: reputation as a miser led her to being disparagingly called 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: the Witch of Wall Street. Tune in for a peeka 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: She Makes Money Moves. At the end of today's episode. 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, We'll welcome 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm from and I'm Tracy Vie Wilson 15 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: and um So, there's the stereotype. We talked about it 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: a little bit in our math episode, in our episode 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: about algebra about women lacking mathematical proclivity and not having 18 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: much business sense. But those stereotypes were completely obliterated by 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: today's topic, and in the mid eighteen hundreds before many 20 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: people were talking about obliterating those stereotypes. She was seen 21 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: as a peer and an equal to many of wall streets, 22 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: you know, heaviest hitting financiers, and she really opened the 23 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: door to the idea that women could succeed in finance. 24 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: But despite her immense success and these really admirable accomplishments, 25 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: it's kind of difficult to like heavy green Um who 26 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: is who we're talking about today. And as is often 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: the case with people who are extremely driven or really 28 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: gifted in one way or in one area, the areas 29 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: outside of her uh life that fell outside of like 30 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: finance and building her fortune really often suffered. And that 31 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: included her family, which is part of why it's kind 32 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: of hard to like her. And we'll we'll get to 33 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: a specific incident as we go on, But she's sort 34 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: of fascinating in that regard. She's one of those people 35 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: that you can't help but be fascinated by. But there 36 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: is a certain sort of like, I don't know if 37 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: revulsion is the right word, but there's a you can't 38 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: help but wins a little bit at some of the 39 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: things that happened in her life because of her obsession 40 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: with building the family fortune. Uh. So we will kick 41 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: it off and start just at the beginning, as we 42 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: usually do with her early childhood and her birth and 43 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: her family. Hetty was born Henrietta Howland Robinson on November 44 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: twenty one, eighteen thirty four, in New Bedford, Massachusetts. Her 45 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: mother was Abby Holland, who could trace her family directly 46 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: back to the Mayflower, and her father was Edward Mott Robinson. 47 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: And Hetty's mother is uh said to have been quite 48 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: dismayed that she did not have a son to be 49 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: an heir to the family fortune. Uh and so she 50 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: also sent Hetty to live with her grandfather when she 51 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: was still a very small child, import in part because 52 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: Abby was in very poor health, so Hetty was not 53 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: terribly close to her mother. As a result, Hetty spent 54 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: most of her childhood with the men in the family, 55 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: and she learned about business and money management from her 56 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: father and her grandfather. The two of them were partners 57 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: in a whaling company which did quite well. Her father 58 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: was an excellent and astute businessman who said to have 59 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: increased the family's fiscal fortunes twentyfold, and right out of 60 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: the gate, Hetty was really into money as a concept. 61 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: She opened her first savings account when she was only 62 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: eight years old. Uh, and two years after that she 63 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: was sent to boarding school, although she wasn't terribly interested 64 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: in it. She talks in interviews about how she um 65 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: kind of like went ahead and like trudged through, but 66 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: she didn't really like it. Uh and soon she was 67 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: really uh back with her male elders, reading the financial 68 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: pages at her and feeling like she was getting a 69 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: much better education in that regard. One of the stories 70 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: about her is that her father set her up with 71 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: a whole new, expensive wardrobe for her formal society presentation, 72 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: but she sold all of her new clothes and instead 73 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: invested the money and Hetty's mother passed away when uh 74 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: when the heiress Hetty was only twenty five and her 75 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: newly single father decided to move to New York for 76 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: from Connecticut, and Hetty followed because you know, at this 77 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: point in his life, even though he was a little 78 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: bit older, he was still considered an eligible bachelor as 79 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: a widower. H. And there's some pretty significant speculation that 80 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: Hetty's motivation for following her father was to ensure that 81 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: she was not forgotten and left out of the family 82 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: fortune in the event that he remarried. And started a 83 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: new family. When her father and her aunt both died 84 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: in the same year, Hetty, who was thirty one at 85 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: the time, was poised to inherit the family fortune. The 86 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: general opinion of her male relatives was that she would 87 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: have been better off with her money in a trust 88 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: and with a male relative managing things, and all of 89 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: that had been arranged for in the wills for both 90 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: of the wills in question. Yes, she actually was not 91 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: given as much in her aunt's will as she had hoped. Uh, 92 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: And that comes up a little bit more in just 93 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: a bit. But as a woman, you know, in the 94 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: mid eighteen hundreds, even though she had grown up with 95 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: these two men who were really quite established financiers and 96 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: quite good at handling money, and they had talked with 97 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: her a great deal about it, she was still perceived 98 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: as just being unable to handle the demands of managing 99 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: any sort of wealth. But Henny was very headstrong. She 100 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: was very confident in her abilities to handle her own fortune. 101 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: You know, she'd been keeping accounts for her father, and 102 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: she had been reading stock quotes to her grandfather every 103 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: night from the paper since she was a very young child. 104 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: And so she mounted a lawsuit against the trustees of 105 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: her father's will, and she actually took legal action to 106 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: break her will uh, which was a newer version than 107 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: the one she said she had last seen. She did 108 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: manage to wrangle a million dollars of her father's fortune 109 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty five, and later on she procured part 110 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: of her aunt's estate. Eventually, after much arguing and litigation, 111 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: she reached an income arrangement from a trust and she 112 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: ended up with somewhere between six million dollars and seven 113 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: million dollars between the two estates. That's not adjusted to 114 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: today's value though, that is eighteen sixties dollars, So it 115 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: was a really really huge fortune. Yeah, she she had 116 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: plenty of money. I mean, it's one of those things 117 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: where even you know today obviously if someone had six 118 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: million dollars to be in pretty good shapes, So you 119 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: can imagine a hundred and fifty years ago when that 120 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: was like uh. And as all of this legal back 121 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: and forth over her inheritance was dragging on, particularly the 122 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: stuff with her aunt's will, Hetty actually got married. She 123 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: Edward Henry Green, and this was in eighteen sixty seven 124 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: and Hetty was thirty three at the time, Green was 125 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: a silk trader and he served on the board of 126 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: a bank, but his business and Hetty's did not mingle. 127 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: The pair never combined their finances, which, as you can imagine, 128 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: was pretty unheard of at the time, and in fact, 129 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: Green had to sign a prenup agreeing that he would 130 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: keep his hands off Hetty's money, which pre nup arrangements 131 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: of some sort or another have actually been around for 132 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of years, but in my mind this 133 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: sticks out as one of the earliest sort of modern 134 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: UH pre nup arrangements. For a while, the two of 135 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: them moved to England and they stayed there for seven years, 136 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: and this was a move that they made to escape 137 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: some of the bad press that Hetty had gotten while 138 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: she was contesting her aunt's will. She had a previous 139 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: version of the will that had named her as the 140 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: sole inheritor, and there was the scandal over the fact 141 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: that people sort of believed it was a forged document 142 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: that he had made for herself. Yeah, and this you know, 143 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: caused also some legal heat which helped move them right 144 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: along to UH England, and they actually had their first 145 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: child while they were living in London. His name was 146 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: Edward Howland Robinson Green, and that was in eighteen sixty eight, 147 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: so just a year after their marriage, uh. And then 148 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: three years later, still in London, they had a daughter 149 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: named Hetty Sylvia and Howland Robinson Green, and she went 150 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: by Sylvia as she grew up. The two of them 151 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: and their children lived very well while they were in London, 152 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: and all of their living expenses came out of Edwards money. 153 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: So there had been a financial panic in eighteen seventy three. 154 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: And not long after that, just a couple of years later, 155 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: the Greens moved back to the US. Uh. You know, 156 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: the the concerns had died down over the legal document 157 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: and whether there had been any foul play involved, and 158 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: so they settled in Vermont, where Edward was originally from. 159 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: And it was not long before Hetty marched right to street. 160 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: She made a pilgrimage to New York and she went 161 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: into John Jay Cisco and Sons to deposit cash and 162 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: stock certificates. And she was ready to start investing with 163 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: that money right then. And with her separate and independent fortune, 164 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: Hetty invested very very wisely, instead of focusing on fast 165 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: cash investments that would build up her fortune really quickly, 166 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: hett he opted for long term investments. She primarily invested 167 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: in bonds and real estate. She also invested in the railroads, 168 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: and she bought real estate primarily in Chicago, New York, 169 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: and St. Louis. As her fortune grew, she also expanded 170 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: her holdings well beyond these cities, and all of her 171 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: money handling every move she made was really well informed. 172 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: She did copious amounts of research on her own before 173 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: she put her money behind anything. And it wasn't just 174 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: that she was a patient investor. She was also really frugal. 175 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: Even though she had at this point had amassed a 176 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: massive fortune, she lived really simply. She didn't have a 177 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: lavish lifestyle at all, and as a consequence, she always 178 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: had money, and when there were dips in the market 179 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: or panics, she really didn't have to worry about it. 180 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: She could just expand her fortune further instead of worrying 181 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: about getting by day to day. Until the crisis passed, 182 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: she loaned money and purchased real estate on the cheap 183 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: from desperate sellers. And when the financial panics caused many 184 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: investment firms to declare bankruptcy because of their huge debt, 185 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: Hetty who had never borrowed money as a rule, always 186 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: stayed on solid ground. And before we get to kind 187 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: of her obsession with investing in money and expanding her wealth, 188 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: uh kind of ramping up. Do you want to take 189 00:10:52,679 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor? Sure? And so now back 190 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: to Hetty. Uh. So she is at this point in 191 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: New York. She has really uh entrenched herself in this 192 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: lifestyle of trading and buying. And it seems as the uh, 193 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: as her money management continued to take off and it 194 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: took up more and more of her time, she grew 195 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: less and less interested in taking care of herself. Uh. 196 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: She seemed to have just become so obsessed with her 197 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: work in finance that everything else kind of fell away 198 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: from her focus. Her clothes would go unwashed, they would 199 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: eventually fall into ragged disrepair, and she would continue to 200 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: wear them. She often looked very grubby, so much so 201 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: that merchants are said to have winced when she entered 202 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: their stores. They dreaded her dirty hands touching their merchandise. 203 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: I mean, she would even purchase broken cookies at the 204 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: store so she could get a discount for them, and 205 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: she would return barry boxes to the market so she 206 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: could get a refund on them. So she was living 207 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: very frugally, very very cheaply, but she really wasn't taking 208 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: great care of herself. When she finally did relent and 209 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: take her clothes to the cleaners, she said to have 210 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: insisted that they only washed the bottoms of the skirts 211 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: so just to take away the obvious mud and dirt, 212 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: and she would negotiate a reduced price for the partial cleaning. 213 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: And her children. This is the part that really breaks 214 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: my heart. Uh you know, her children had the wealthiest 215 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: woman in America for a mother, but they wore hand 216 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: me downs. They looked like, you know, ragamuffins and poppers 217 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: from like a Dickens novel. H It said that as 218 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: their winter clothes were thin, she would line them with 219 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: newspapers rather than spend money on new coats and shoes 220 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: would get the same treatment. So if the kids had 221 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: holes in their souls, she would patch them cheaply or 222 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: just line them with paper, uh to so that the 223 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: hole wasn't completely open. Her tight fistedness with her money 224 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: really cost her son dearly. So when Ned, as he 225 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: was known, hurt his leg while he was sledding, Hetty 226 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: put off getting a medical treatment for him because she 227 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,239 Speaker 1: didn't want to get a bill from the doctor, and consequently, 228 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: his leg never healed correctly and it finally had to 229 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: be amputated because he developed gang green. So the nickname 230 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: the Witch of Wall Street came from the way Hetty 231 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: carried herself in public. As a woman, she was often 232 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: confronted with people who thought that they could take advantage 233 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: of her, and one of the ways that she dealt 234 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: with that was by being really shrewd and abrupt in 235 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: her behavior. She was very direct and very cautious in 236 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: all of her dealings. And additionally, she wore solid black 237 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: most of the time, and she wore wore clothes that 238 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: were a little bit outdated. Again, she didn't like to 239 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: buy new clothes, so she would kind of be out 240 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: of season in these older, you know, dusty looking things. 241 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: So you could see where people would start calling her 242 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: a witch based on, you know, sort of the depictions 243 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: of witches at the time. And it's all I said 244 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: that she did not really have a great personal smell, 245 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: which is not really a huge leap of logic given 246 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: accounts of her less than stellar hygiene. Because she was 247 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: this enigmatic and unusual figure lots of rumors circulated about her. 248 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: One of these was that she was so miserly that 249 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: she only had one dress. As we've already mentioned, she 250 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: definitely did have a penny pinching streak about her. Yeah, 251 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: and there's a story in biography that was written about her, 252 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: and the way the story goes is that she was 253 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: carrying two hundred thousand dollars in bonds on public transportation. 254 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: And again that is not adjusted. That is two thousand 255 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: dollars in eighteen sixties money, or this may have been 256 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: a little bit later, but uh. And when someone insinuated, like, hey, 257 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: that's not really wise to carry that much wealth on 258 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: public transportation, she insisted that she could not afford to 259 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: hire a private carriage as they were suggesting, and that 260 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: if they can, that's great for them, but she couldn't. 261 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: Just kind of funny, you know, it's like the person 262 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: sitting there with a pile of money in their laps 263 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: saying they can't afford a taxi. In another story, she 264 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: lived with a hernia for years rather than going to 265 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: the doctor to have it looked at, and she only 266 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: went once the pain became really unbearable, and then she 267 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: was infuriated that the surgery was going to cost a 268 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars. She only agreed to it because 269 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: she was in so much pain, and allegedly she then 270 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:31,479 Speaker 1: tried to get away without paying the bill to the doctor. Yeah, 271 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: there's another rumor that went around that she had a 272 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: man's brain in a woman's body, and in all likelihood 273 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: that was not intended to be taken literally by you know, 274 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: a person who initially said it. It was one of 275 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: those you know, uh, just kind of off handed comments. 276 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: This tidbit kind of slid into the rumor mill, and 277 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: people believed it as though it were a real thing 278 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: and not sort of just a commentary on her shrewdness 279 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: and her acumen in business. And it just added to 280 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: that which mystique that you know, she's sort of almost 281 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: Frankenstein character that has you know, male thinking in a 282 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: woman's body. But there's also a tinge of sexism in 283 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: the nickname. Clearly, a woman who could amass so much 284 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: of a fortune and stand toe to toe with men 285 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: when it came to making deals had to be a sorceress. 286 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: Yet her odd and unsettling demeanor really didn't help. The 287 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: press picked up the name, and they started using the 288 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: Witch of Wall Street anytime they reported any financial news 289 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: involving her. And she was really worth reporting about. So 290 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: a lot of men on Wall Street and elsewhere we're 291 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: just really happy to be insulting about Hetty. And some 292 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: of these same men were the ones appealing to her 293 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: for loans and fiscal assistance when they ran into a crisis. 294 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: This was the case throughout her life. She's said to 295 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: have saved the city of New York on several occasions 296 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: when the city's coffers ran dry, and she even wrote 297 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: a check for one point one million dollars in the 298 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: nineteens of a Knickerbocker crisis as part of the emergency 299 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: bank bailout that was headed up by JP Morgan. Yeah, 300 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: people would just say horrible things about her and kind 301 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: of snicker behind her back, but boy, they were really 302 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: happy to take her money when they needed it. Uh, 303 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: as is often the case. Uh. And so while Hetty 304 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: was having these spectacular successes in finance, her husband unfortunately 305 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: was not. Uh. He had been making investments through the 306 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: years just as his wife had, but he just did 307 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: not have her skill at picking winners. And really, like 308 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, assembling a cohesive portfolio that was all smart moves, 309 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: and the two million dollars that he had entered their 310 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: marriage with had slowly dwindled down until it was mostly gone. Unsurprisingly, 311 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: a husband who could not manage his own money was 312 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,239 Speaker 1: of no interest to Hetty, despite the fact that he 313 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: was from a good family and by all accounts was 314 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: a kind and affable man. She had already bailed him 315 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: out several times, and once she had to pull all 316 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: of our money out of the bank to avoid it 317 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: being seized to cover his debts, and at that point 318 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: enough was enough, and so in one after fourteen years 319 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: of marriage, she took the children and she moved to 320 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: New York. She kept the desk in an office on 321 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: Wall Street, incidentally in the bank where she moved her 322 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: money after the incident with Edwards debt collectors caused her 323 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: to leave her previous bank. She brought her lunch of 324 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: oatmeal or a plain ham sandwich with her every day, 325 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: and because she wasn't exactly enthusiastic about paying taxes on 326 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: the property she owned, she and the children never had 327 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: a consistent home. The three of them moved around a 328 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: lot to dodge debt collectors, and they stayed in cheap 329 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: flats over the years all over the city. They spent 330 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: time in Hoboken, the Bowery, Harlem, and Brooklyn. Anywhere that 331 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: Hetty could find a deal on a cold water flat 332 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: with a low weekly rate, she would use aliases that 333 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: most of them sometimes even registering under her dog's name. Yeah, yeah, 334 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: they're They're debate over what the actual name of her 335 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: dog was, and it could just be that there were 336 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: multiple dogs. Some will list him as Dewey. Some even 337 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: list him as Money being his name, which to me 338 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: sounds a little urban legend. E uh, and I think 339 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: there's another name in the mix. But in any case, 340 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: her dog rented some flats for her. Ned her son, 341 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: went to Fordham and he pursued a law degree, and 342 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: Hetty had always had in mind that he was going 343 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: to be the one that managed the family fortune after her, 344 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: and so after he graduated, she gave him a job 345 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: managing some of her properties in Chicago, and he did 346 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: quite well there, and so she eventually moved him to 347 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,959 Speaker 1: Texas to see after interests there. His life away from 348 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: his mother gave Ned a little taste of freedom. He 349 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: started to like more extravagant living, and he did have 350 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: several dalliances with some ladies. We can say they had 351 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: negotiable affections. That's a perfect way to put it. Hetty 352 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: was afraid that he would end up married to a 353 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: man who was only after the family fortune, so she 354 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: begged Ned to promise her he would never get married. 355 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: He acquiesced, although his mistress, who was a former prostitute, 356 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: stayed with him and the pair lived as though they 357 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: were married to each other. Ned was eventually moved back 358 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: to New York by his mother to see after the business, 359 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: and unlike his mother, who still insisted on living in 360 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: cheap rental flats, he lived for a little while at 361 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: the Waldorf Astoria, and then he and his mistress moved 362 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: to adjoining townhouses near Central Park. And while Ned did 363 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: not share his mother's taste in lodging or lifestyle, he 364 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: really did inherit her business acumen, and he proved himself 365 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: to be extremely adept at managing the family fortune. Neddie 366 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: and Edward's daughter, Sylvia, stayed unmarried and stayed with her 367 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: mother until she was thirty nine. At that point, she 368 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: married Matthew Astor Wilkes, who was the great grandchild of 369 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: John Jacob asked her. The first Wilkes was in his sixties, 370 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: so he was much older than Sylvia. But hett he 371 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: approved of the marriage because he had family money of 372 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: his own and promised that he would never touch Sylvia's. Yeah, 373 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: it said that Hetty didn't really like uh Matthew, but 374 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: she liked that he was willing to stay out of 375 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: her family's money. Uh. And Sylvia's wedding is often pointed 376 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: to you as one of the few times that Hetty 377 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: kind of loosened her purse strings. She paid for the wedding, 378 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: and it said, uh. And it said that she was 379 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: much more fiscally indulgent in the whole affair than just 380 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: about any other time she was in her life. And 381 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: prior to Sylvia meeting Matthew, Hetty had also paid to 382 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 1: host several dinners uh like places at the plaza so 383 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: that her daughter could invite eligible men and they could 384 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: have these sort of social events. Uh. And all of 385 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: this was really because Hetty had been quite concerned that 386 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: Sylvia wasn't married. And this sounds sort of a little 387 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: ironic given what a fiercely independent him and Hetty herself was, 388 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: But even so, she had been married, and she seemed 389 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: to think that it was important for a woman to 390 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: marry at some point. Hetty died on July third, nineteen sixteen, 391 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: at her son's town house. She had gotten six several 392 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: years before with pneumonia, and at that point the papers 393 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: had reported that the Witch of Wall Street was really 394 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: at death's door, but she defied them and recovered. The 395 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: illness left her pretty frail, though, and she wasn't able 396 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: to work anymore afterward, So she moved in with her 397 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: son and insisted that she pay him rent, but no 398 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: more than she would have paid at the more modest 399 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: lodgings she would normally have gotten for herself, and eventually 400 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: after falling into gradually poorer and poorer health. Uh she 401 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: had had that that initial pneumonia that caused the death 402 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: scare when she was in her late seventies. I believe 403 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: she was seventy seven, and then as she was approaching 404 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: her eighty second birthday, she had a series of paralytic strokes, 405 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: and so she died just a few weeks before her birthday. 406 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: When she died, she left behind a fortune of more 407 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: than a hundred million dollars, which she acquired over the 408 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: fifty one years that she had worked. She owned about 409 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 1: six thousand pieces of property across forty eight states. And 410 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: she held the deeds to theaters, railroads, hotels, office buildings, 411 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: and cemeteries. And she held the mortgages for more than 412 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: five hundred churches. Yeah, and again that is not an 413 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: adjusted amount. That was a hundred million in the nineteen 414 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: teens when she died. So I have seen various adjustment 415 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: estimates that are wildly different, some that put her in 416 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: the low billions, uh if that were today's money, and 417 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: some that put her like in the tens of billions. 418 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: So it's a pretty wide range. But basically she would 419 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: have been a billionaire if if this was in today's 420 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: uh fiscal measuring. And so then ned inherited a big 421 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: chunk of the money, and unlike his mother, he took 422 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,959 Speaker 1: that money and he lived big. He was still you know, 423 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: doing his job as a financier. But he spent plenty 424 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: of that money. He married his mistress that he had 425 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: promised his mother he would never marry, although it is 426 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: said that he also had dalliances with other women. Uh. 427 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,959 Speaker 1: And he spent a huge chunk of money building mammoth 428 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: mansions in multiple places, and he staffed all of them 429 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: with a full complement of servants. He kind of made 430 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: up for all the lost time that they lived very 431 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: poorly as children. And he gave a lot of money 432 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: to charity, and he also funded several scientific research projects. 433 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 1: He did some work with M I. T. And let 434 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: them even use some of his property to to do 435 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: some of their experiments. Ned died in nineteen thirty seven, 436 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: and at that point the estate went to Sylvia, who 437 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: was already a widow. She in turn left the entire 438 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: lot to various charities, so all that money that Hetty 439 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: had spent her life hoarding eventually was given away. Yeah, 440 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: it's one of those moments where you're you feel reasonably 441 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: confident that if she could, she was probably rolling in 442 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: her grave. Uh. But it's interesting to note. I mean, 443 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: she gets these this almost caricature grade description in anything 444 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: you read about her. That's why, Uh, I'm almost reluctant 445 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: to ever say anything with certainty about her, because it 446 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: seems like every report of her is colored by sort 447 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: of the press and this weird image that she had. 448 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: But I want to wrap up with a quote from 449 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: Hetty herself that I think is really telling and it 450 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: it kind of uh pulls the whole thing together and 451 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: reminds us that yes, she was a very extreme person 452 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: with some very extreme behaviors, but she was still a 453 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: person and she uh she said this in response to 454 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: criticisms and bad press about her uh. And you know, 455 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: this is a woman who was listed in the Guinness 456 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: Book of Records as the world's greatest miser. But this 457 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: quote goes my life is written down for me in 458 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: Wall Street by people who I assume do not care 459 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: to know one iota of the real Hetty Green. I 460 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: am in earnest. Therefore they picture me as heartless. I 461 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,959 Speaker 1: go my own way. I take no partner, risk nobody 462 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: else's fortune. Therefore I am madam Ishmael set against every man. 463 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: So that's Hitty Green. Thank you so much for joining 464 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: us on this Saturday. If you have heard an email 465 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: address or a Facebook you are l or something similar 466 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: over the course of today's episode, since it is from 467 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: the archive that might be out of date now, you 468 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: can email us at History Podcast at how stuff Works 469 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: dot com, and you can find us all over social 470 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: media at missed in History, and you can subscribe to 471 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: our show on Apple podcasts, Google podcast, the I heart 472 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: Radio app, and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Stuffy 473 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: Miss Industry Class is a production of I Heart Radio's 474 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, 475 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 476 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. I was one serious emergency 477 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: away from being completely broke. What would happen is my 478 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: money would just sort of sit in my savings and 479 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: nothing would be done with it. We wanted to enjoy 480 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: certain things in life and not be stressed living paychecks 481 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: a paycheck. I do remember having nights where I was 482 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: up at night worrying about where my paychecks were coming 483 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: from when they were coming in. I'm Samantha Barry, theater 484 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: in chief of Glamor and the host of She Makes 485 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: Money Moves. I believe there's power, especially for young women, 486 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: in talking about money, how much we make, how much 487 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: we spend, and how money impacts our identities and our relationships. 488 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: Consider this your invitation to join the conversation. You'll hear 489 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: from women across the country who shared their honest, unscripted 490 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:57,719 Speaker 1: stories their salaries. I made about thirty dollars their struggles. 491 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: Clearly we're not going to be able to afford to 492 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: keep the house, and the lessons they've learned along the way, 493 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 1: and eventually my credit cards just got maxed out, and 494 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: it was almost like I didn't know when that even happened. 495 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: There be highs. I think I saved my first hundred 496 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: thousand when I was twenty eight. There'll be loads, so 497 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: you mean to tell me our mortgage was not paid 498 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: and you went shopping. And there will also be advice 499 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: from financial experts helping to guide these women and women 500 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: everywhere towards a better financial future. I'll say this first 501 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: and foremost, it is your younger self job to look 502 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: after your older self. I don't think you should break 503 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: up a someone just because they said I have a 504 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars in student loan time. Money is the 505 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: ultimate taboo topic, and we're more comfortable getting physically naked 506 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: with somebody than financially naked. She makes Money moves from 507 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: Glamor and I Heart Radio premiers on Apple podcasts, that 508 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app or wherever you listen to your 509 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: favorite shows. Subscribe now to join us as we help 510 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: women raise their voices and make money moves Who can't 511 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: afford to miss it. Oh, my dad's gonna be so 512 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: ashamed of me when this airsh