WEBVTT - Is Deshaun Watson's Suspension Enough?

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<v Speaker 1>Before we get started, please rate and review our show.

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<v Speaker 1>It helps people find us. Hey, I'm John Gonzalez, host

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<v Speaker 1>of Sports Illustrated Weekly. On this bonus episode, we are

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<v Speaker 1>re airing an interview we did with former SI stafford

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<v Speaker 1>Jenny frent Us, who's now at the New York Times.

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<v Speaker 1>Jenny did extensive reporting on the allegations of sexual misconduct

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<v Speaker 1>against Brown's quarterback to Shaun Watson while he was still

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<v Speaker 1>with the Houston Texans. On Monday, a retired federal judge

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<v Speaker 1>named Sue Robinson, who was appointed by the NFL and

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<v Speaker 1>the Players Association to oversee player discipline, ruled that Watson

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<v Speaker 1>would be suspended for six games this season as a

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<v Speaker 1>result of more than two dozen women alleging sexual missconduct

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<v Speaker 1>by him during separate massage therapy sessions. The ruling also

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<v Speaker 1>stated that Watson will not be fined and that moving forward,

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<v Speaker 1>all future massage therapy sessions for him must be with

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<v Speaker 1>club approved therapists in club direct sessions for the remainder

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<v Speaker 1>of his career. It should be noted, as we mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>in the upcoming piece, that no criminal charges were ever

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<v Speaker 1>brought against Watson, which does not mean the accusations against

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<v Speaker 1>Watson are untrue or that he was exonerated. Watson settled

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<v Speaker 1>with all but one of the twenty four women who

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<v Speaker 1>filed civil suits against him. The league and players union

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<v Speaker 1>have three business days to submit a written appeal, which

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<v Speaker 1>could be handled by the NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. In

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<v Speaker 1>the interim, here's my conversation with Frentis about her extensive

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<v Speaker 1>reporting surrounding the allegations against Watson. Please be advised that

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<v Speaker 1>we discussed some sensitive material in unvarnished detail that might

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<v Speaker 1>be upsetting for some listeners from Sports Illustrated and I

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<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio. This is a special bonus reairing of Sports

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<v Speaker 1>Illustrated Weekly. We've got breaking news out of the NFL

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<v Speaker 1>where the Texans quarterback to Shaun Watson has waived his

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<v Speaker 1>no trade clause for the Cleveland brownsmed last week, Deshaun

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<v Speaker 1>Watson was traded from the Houston Texans to the Cleveland Browns.

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<v Speaker 1>According to reports, he signed a five year contract for

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<v Speaker 1>the most guaranteed money in NFL history, where he will

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<v Speaker 1>reportedly receive a five year, two hundred and thirty million

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<v Speaker 1>dollar contract that makes him one of the highest paid

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<v Speaker 1>players in the NFL. The Browns also protected Watson even

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<v Speaker 1>if he faced his punishment by the NFL this season

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<v Speaker 1>for his alleged behavior. Because his base salary for is

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<v Speaker 1>just over one million dollars, any for game suspension can

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<v Speaker 1>only be deducted from that amount, leaving at least two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and twenty nine million untouched. Before all that happened,

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<v Speaker 1>a grand jury in Texas decided not to move forward

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<v Speaker 1>with criminal charges against Watson in allegations of sexual misconduct

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<v Speaker 1>that were made against him by multiple women. But while

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<v Speaker 1>Watson was not charged in criminal court, there are twenty

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<v Speaker 1>two civil suits still pending against him, as well as

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<v Speaker 1>an ongoing NFL investigation that could potentially lead the league

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<v Speaker 1>to take disciplinary action against the quarter back. Jenny Brentis

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<v Speaker 1>previously covered this story for Sports Illustrated and has continued

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<v Speaker 1>to do so for The New York Times. Be advised

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<v Speaker 1>that what follows contains some graphic descriptions of the accusations.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Jenny, let's start from the beginning. Take us

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<v Speaker 1>through the allegations against Deshaun Watson. Yeah. John, So, it

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<v Speaker 1>was almost exactly a year ago that the first allegations

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<v Speaker 1>surface publicly. A twenty year old licensed massage therapist named

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<v Speaker 1>Ashley so Leice was the one who filed the first

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<v Speaker 1>civil suit alleging that during a massage appointment, Deshaun Watson

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<v Speaker 1>engaged in sexual misconduct order by placing his penis on

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<v Speaker 1>her hand during the appointment without her consent. The women

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<v Speaker 1>who have come forward have said they believed that this

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<v Speaker 1>was a professional setting. They were going there to do

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<v Speaker 1>a job they had been trained to do, and he

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<v Speaker 1>took the appointment in another direction. From that first lawsuit

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<v Speaker 1>being filed, there was then an avalanche of others that followed.

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<v Speaker 1>There were women saying this happened to me too. I

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<v Speaker 1>want to support the first person who came forward to

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<v Speaker 1>say you should believe her account. There are twenty two

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<v Speaker 1>active civil lawsuits right now. There were ten criminal complaints,

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<v Speaker 1>and of the ten criminal complaints, eight had also filed

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<v Speaker 1>civil complaints and two had not. So in total, there

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<v Speaker 1>were twenty four allegations that were brought to either the

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<v Speaker 1>civil or criminal court system, and they all were very

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<v Speaker 1>similar accounts, from Watson exposing himself to touching the therapists,

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<v Speaker 1>in some cases ejaculating on them, and in other cases

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<v Speaker 1>A handful of the allegations were sexual assault. All of

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<v Speaker 1>them had a commonality and that he booked a massage

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<v Speaker 1>appointment with the massage therapist and then turned the appointment

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<v Speaker 1>sexual without their consent. Take us through what happened with

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<v Speaker 1>a grand jury that was impaneled in Texas with regard

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<v Speaker 1>to the allegations made against the Shawn. Yeah. So, a

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<v Speaker 1>grand jury in Harris County, Texas, which is where Houston

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<v Speaker 1>is located, on Friday, March eleven, heard nine criminal cases

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<v Speaker 1>against Deshaun Watson. The grand jury proceedings are secretive. They

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<v Speaker 1>are behind closed doors. We couldn't even see anyone going

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<v Speaker 1>in and out in these cases the grand jury. Here's

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<v Speaker 1>testimony or evidence or whatever the prosecutor chooses to bring,

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<v Speaker 1>and we don't know exactly how the prosecutor presented the case.

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<v Speaker 1>We do know some elements. We know that some of

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<v Speaker 1>the video testimony the women who filed criminal complaints had

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<v Speaker 1>given to police, some of that was played in the hearings.

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<v Speaker 1>We know that several of the women were subpoena to

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<v Speaker 1>potentially provide testimony. They all sat in a room together.

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<v Speaker 1>Only one of those women was actually called in front

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<v Speaker 1>of the grand jury. We don't actually even know which

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<v Speaker 1>charges they considered. We know that the police investigation was

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<v Speaker 1>zeroing in on indecent assault, which is a misdemeanor in Texas,

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<v Speaker 1>but three of the ten criminal complaints alleged sexual assault.

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<v Speaker 1>But in all, the grand jury returned nine no bills

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<v Speaker 1>after hearing testimony for about six hours, which meant that

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<v Speaker 1>they did not believe there was enough evidence to establish

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<v Speaker 1>probable cause for criminal charges. Jenny, there's this old saying

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<v Speaker 1>that prosecutors can get a grand jury to indict a

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<v Speaker 1>ham sandwich. In this case, the grand jury decided not

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<v Speaker 1>to move forward. Why do you think they didn't indict

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<v Speaker 1>Deshaun Watson. Yeah. I think the corollary to that axiom

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<v Speaker 1>is that they can indict a ham sandwich if they

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<v Speaker 1>want to indict a ham sandwich. And I'm not saying

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<v Speaker 1>that that's the case here, certainly, But I bring that

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<v Speaker 1>up because the prosecutor does have a lot of influence

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<v Speaker 1>on how the case is presented to the grand jury,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think part of the problem with the proceedings

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<v Speaker 1>being secretive is we don't know exactly how the case

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<v Speaker 1>was presented to the grand jury. We don't even know

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<v Speaker 1>exactly what charges were considered. We don't know all of

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<v Speaker 1>the information that was presented it. There were people, including

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<v Speaker 1>prominent media members, who wrongly framed the grand jury's decision

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<v Speaker 1>not to proceed as an exoneration of Watson, and you

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<v Speaker 1>have written and spoken about this extensively. Explain why it

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<v Speaker 1>is that just because no criminal charges were filed against

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<v Speaker 1>Watson that it doesn't necessarily mean that he's innocent of

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<v Speaker 1>the allegations made against him. The grand jury proceedings were

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<v Speaker 1>one part of the whole process, and for Watson, it

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<v Speaker 1>was certainly an important moment to not face criminal charges

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<v Speaker 1>in Harris County. Many teams took that as a green

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<v Speaker 1>light to proceed with trade conversations. That was the outcome

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<v Speaker 1>that he was hoping for. But there are still the

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<v Speaker 1>twenty two civil complaints. My understanding is they are all

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<v Speaker 1>still going forward. Just because a grand jury decides that

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<v Speaker 1>there shouldn't be an indictment here doesn't mean that there

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<v Speaker 1>was not some form of wrongdoing. If you look at

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<v Speaker 1>some of the facts of the case that have been

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<v Speaker 1>put out there, and by facts I mean not just

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<v Speaker 1>the accounts of the women, but some of the corrobor

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<v Speaker 1>issa that we've reported on, that information does point to

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<v Speaker 1>there being some form of wrongdoing. So you mentioned the

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<v Speaker 1>pending civil suits against Watson. I think it's important to

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<v Speaker 1>draw the distinction, explain how those proceedings are different than

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<v Speaker 1>the standards necessary to prosecute in criminal court. In criminal court,

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<v Speaker 1>to get a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard.

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<v Speaker 1>In civil court, it's the preponderance of the evidence, So

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<v Speaker 1>the basic legal standard is different. Tony Buzzby, who represents

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty two plaintiffs, has said one doesn't have any

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<v Speaker 1>bearing on the other. Just because the criminal proceedings are

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<v Speaker 1>over in Harris County doesn't mean that the civil proceedings

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<v Speaker 1>are over. And there certainly could be some resolution there

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<v Speaker 1>in which a civil court would decide that the rights

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<v Speaker 1>of the women were violated in that way. So Watson

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<v Speaker 1>had to sit for depositions in the civil suits. Explain

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<v Speaker 1>your reporting on this, because he invoked his Fifth Amendment

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<v Speaker 1>right in some of those depositions, but then you've been

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<v Speaker 1>told that he won't do so moving forward, So why

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<v Speaker 1>while the grand jury was still considering criminal charges, Deshaun

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<v Speaker 1>Watson pled the Fifth but once the grand jury decided

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<v Speaker 1>not to indict him in Harris County, Rusty Harden said

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<v Speaker 1>he would then start answering questions in the civil suits

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<v Speaker 1>moving forward. I think civilly, if a defendant pleads the

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<v Speaker 1>fifth that may not be helpful to their case. It

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<v Speaker 1>may actually be hurtful to the resolution of the case

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<v Speaker 1>if they plead the fifth. The legal strategy and civil

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<v Speaker 1>court would be to answer questions and try to give

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<v Speaker 1>some explanation for what's being alleged that you did. But

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't want to do that until the grand jury

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<v Speaker 1>made a decision in Harris County. After the grand jury

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<v Speaker 1>decided not to proceed, the conversation around Watson, especially in

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<v Speaker 1>traditional sports media forums, turned really rapidly to who might

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<v Speaker 1>trade for Watson. It became a football conversation. And there's

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<v Speaker 1>obviously a lot more going on here than just football.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm curious why you think sports fans and media

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<v Speaker 1>like pivoted so quickly to the football component. Is just

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<v Speaker 1>that sports fandom and media and social media is sort

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<v Speaker 1>of ill equipped to have this nuanced conversation. Sexual violence

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<v Speaker 1>overall is a topic that you need to have studied

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<v Speaker 1>up on. You need to have spent time learning how

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about, how to cover, how to ask people questions.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I've gone to trainings to do that because

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<v Speaker 1>it's important, right when you're interviewing people who say they've

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<v Speaker 1>experienced sexual violence, you need to know how to ask questions,

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<v Speaker 1>how to get information without retraumatizing. I think from an

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<v Speaker 1>NFL perspective, because Watson is a talented quarterback, I think

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<v Speaker 1>they were looking for something that they could point to

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<v Speaker 1>to say this was a decision that was made that

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<v Speaker 1>indicates we can go forward with the trade talk. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think the grand jury making that decision days before

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<v Speaker 1>free agency opened for NFL teams going after him, they

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<v Speaker 1>could say, hey, listen, the grand jury decided not to

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<v Speaker 1>indict on criminal charges. But also we hear the NFL

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<v Speaker 1>to talk a lot about how they have a higher standard. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the whole crux of the Personal Conduct policy, right,

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<v Speaker 1>is that it doesn't rely on there being criminal charges

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<v Speaker 1>or civil charges to hold players accountable for behaviors that

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<v Speaker 1>may have violated the policy. It's asking players who represent teams,

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<v Speaker 1>who are prominent figures in their community to hold themselves

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<v Speaker 1>to a higher standard. And so just because there aren't

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<v Speaker 1>criminal charges brought, if you're a team, you should be

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<v Speaker 1>seeking to understand, well, what are your responses to the

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<v Speaker 1>behaviors alleged and the civil complaints. How do you explain

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<v Speaker 1>your actions? Are you willing to at least express some

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<v Speaker 1>contrition for some of the things alleged, or maybe try

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<v Speaker 1>to rehabilitate some of the behaviors. Unfortunately, the way this

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<v Speaker 1>has unfolded, because Watson had the no trade clause for

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<v Speaker 1>a deal to be executed, the trade conversations became more

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<v Speaker 1>of a bidding war, and so all the teams that

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<v Speaker 1>were meeting with him were trying to convince him to

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<v Speaker 1>waive the no trade clause for their team, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think that made it a situation where it's probably a

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<v Speaker 1>lot less likely that he was actually pushed on those questions.

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<v Speaker 1>The reality is that the NFL's personal conduct policy is

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<v Speaker 1>largely a public relations mechanism, and it's used to indicate

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<v Speaker 1>that we are taking allegations against players or coaches or

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<v Speaker 1>members of organizations seriously. But I think in this case

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<v Speaker 1>what we've gotten is a window into the flaws of

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<v Speaker 1>that process. There are a lot of repercussions to speaking up. Actually,

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<v Speaker 1>so these had damage done to her massage studio. But

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<v Speaker 1>when people speak up, they do so in the hopes

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<v Speaker 1>that there will be accountability, and that can be difficult

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<v Speaker 1>to achieve through the criminal system, through the civil court system,

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<v Speaker 1>and these women are trying that they filed civil lawsuits,

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<v Speaker 1>they filed criminal complaints, but the lead old system is

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<v Speaker 1>not suited for survivors, and a lot of paths to

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<v Speaker 1>getting some form of justice don't result in a clear

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<v Speaker 1>statement of guilt or non guilt. It can also be

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<v Speaker 1>done through the employer, and I think that's where the

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<v Speaker 1>NFL states that it will examine and handle seriously accounts

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<v Speaker 1>of misconduct. But the inaction to this point has served

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<v Speaker 1>to essentially shield Watson from any repercussions whether they have

0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.160
<v Speaker 1>legitimate reasons for not using the commissioners exemple list, while

0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.400
<v Speaker 1>none of those have been explained, and so that's the

0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.400
<v Speaker 1>environment that they've played a role in creating. Yeah, so

0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.480
<v Speaker 1>much of this remains unresolved to Jenny. As you mentioned,

0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 1>the civil suits are pending. The League has yet to

0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.160
<v Speaker 1>weigh in what happens next for Watson, what's he facing

0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:57.199
<v Speaker 1>in terms of legal liability and also a possible league suspension. Yeah,

0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.720
<v Speaker 1>so the twenty two lawsuits are still on going. I

0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.560
<v Speaker 1>think that from the plaintift perspective, they have a desire

0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.600
<v Speaker 1>to start beginning trials for some of these. Of course,

0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.240
<v Speaker 1>the settlement could happen at any time, but my most

0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.120
<v Speaker 1>recent conversation with Tony Buzby, he said there were no

0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.679
<v Speaker 1>renewed settlement conversations. Unlike last year around the trade deadline,

0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:19.480
<v Speaker 1>when there did seem to be a push for some

0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.240
<v Speaker 1>of these cases to be settled, that doesn't seem to

0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 1>be the case now, so that is going to continue

0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 1>to go on. I mean, it's a little bit of

0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.560
<v Speaker 1>a surreal circumstance where you have Watson meeting with teams,

0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.560
<v Speaker 1>and in between those meetings with teams, he was also

0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.760
<v Speaker 1>being deposed in those civil cases. And then in terms

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:40.080
<v Speaker 1>of the NFL, we don't know exactly the timetable for

0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.520
<v Speaker 1>the league investigation. They have interviewed several of the women

0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.560
<v Speaker 1>who have come forward. They planned not to interview Watson

0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.920
<v Speaker 1>until the criminal proceedings were completed, so they have not

0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.920
<v Speaker 1>yet interviewed Watson, and so their investigation will not be

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.520
<v Speaker 1>complete until they do that. It's still expected that there

0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.360
<v Speaker 1>will be some kind of suspension by the League. Again,

0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.360
<v Speaker 1>the personal conduct policy doesn't stipulate that there needs to

0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 1>be criminal charges for a player to be suspended, but

0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>teams seeking to acquire Watson, we're saying this is a

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.760
<v Speaker 1>long term decision, or we want him as a quarterback

0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.960
<v Speaker 1>for many years, and so we'll withstand the suspension and

0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.800
<v Speaker 1>then we'll have him for the long term. Jenny, it

0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:20.640
<v Speaker 1>can be a little too easy, I think for football

0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 1>fans to get lost in the legal ease and the

0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.200
<v Speaker 1>trade talk and the football components, and in so doing

0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.880
<v Speaker 1>overlook the women who made these claims. Can you tell

0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.760
<v Speaker 1>us a little bit more about what they allegedly went through.

0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.320
<v Speaker 1>We published a story entitled a massage Therapist on her

0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.720
<v Speaker 1>session with Deshaun Watson, and what it was was an

0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 1>account from a woman who we called Mary, a pseudonym,

0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.280
<v Speaker 1>who was not one of the plaintiffs. She had not

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.480
<v Speaker 1>filed the civil lawsuit, she was not represented by the

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.600
<v Speaker 1>same lawyer representing all of the other plaintiffs, Tony Busby.

0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:59.120
<v Speaker 1>We found her on her own and Mary told us

0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 1>an account of her session with Deshaun Watson in fall nineteen,

0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:10.400
<v Speaker 1>earlier than any of the situations described in the civil lawsuits.

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.880
<v Speaker 1>Mary told Sports Illustrated that during her appointment with Watson,

0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.000
<v Speaker 1>he engaged in behavior unlike any she had experienced with

0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:24.400
<v Speaker 1>the client before. She said that he purposely removed the

0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.160
<v Speaker 1>towel that was covering his private areas. She said that

0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.520
<v Speaker 1>he told her she could touch and move his then

0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:35.200
<v Speaker 1>exposed penis. She ignored that suggestion. Mary also said that

0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.240
<v Speaker 1>Watson began thrusting his pelvis into the air after he

0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.320
<v Speaker 1>developed an erection, and at one point she noticed what

0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 1>she believed to be pre ejaculate on Watson's stomach. When

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.160
<v Speaker 1>you actually talk to a person who has been in

0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:54.040
<v Speaker 1>a massage room with Deshaun Watson, when she describes to

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 1>you in detail the behavior she said she experienced, when

0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.240
<v Speaker 1>you then have corroboration of that behavior in the form

0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 1>of other accounts and messages, she sent, it adds strength

0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:12.120
<v Speaker 1>to what the women were saying had happened. Ashley Solise

0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.159
<v Speaker 1>described how in real time she was questioning what she

0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.600
<v Speaker 1>was experiencing because it didn't mesh with this public reputation.

0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.080
<v Speaker 1>She told us that she was undermining myself and what

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.480
<v Speaker 1>was really happening. What was really going on. I thought,

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.280
<v Speaker 1>this can't be happening. He's a good person. There's no way.

0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.120
<v Speaker 1>After the first story came out with Mary, I received

0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.639
<v Speaker 1>some private messages that were borderline threats, essentially saying, you

0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.320
<v Speaker 1>better know what you're doing. Why are you ruining this

0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.000
<v Speaker 1>man's reputation? You better be right. There were some vulgar

0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.960
<v Speaker 1>words included, and that was a little bit not surprising,

0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:56.720
<v Speaker 1>but it's always shaking. Ashley Solise specifically said, I want

0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 1>to rehumanize us and make people remember what this is

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:06.640
<v Speaker 1>really about. When we spoke to Mary, she said, the

0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.359
<v Speaker 1>one thing I keep thinking about is he's about to

0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:13.240
<v Speaker 1>get traded to another place. He would have a whole

0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:20.560
<v Speaker 1>new community of massage therapists to target. There's obviously so

0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.080
<v Speaker 1>much swirling around to Shaun Watson, and yet, as we've

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.399
<v Speaker 1>discussed Jenny, multiple teams were interested in acquiring him, and

0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering what that says about those organizations and the

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.480
<v Speaker 1>risk or the trouble that they're willing to take on

0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 1>in order to acquire a quarterback of his caliber. Yeah,

0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.439
<v Speaker 1>and I think this comes up a lot when we

0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.320
<v Speaker 1>see teams deal with players who have been alleged to

0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.720
<v Speaker 1>have committed some form of misconduct. They often talk a

0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:49.480
<v Speaker 1>lot about vetting or doing their due diligence, but oftentimes

0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.159
<v Speaker 1>it's a lot thinner than the team presents it to be.

0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.879
<v Speaker 1>They actually haven't done the work to figure out what

0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.760
<v Speaker 1>is truly going on here. And so in the case

0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.640
<v Speaker 1>of Watson, and when I with Tony Buzby the other night,

0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:03.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, he said none of the teams that were

0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.240
<v Speaker 1>in the process of meeting with Watson had reached out

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.440
<v Speaker 1>to Buzzby had asked to talk to the women involved.

0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.720
<v Speaker 1>And you know, maybe the women wouldn't want to talk

0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.560
<v Speaker 1>to the teams, and that would be totally understandable, but

0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:24.560
<v Speaker 1>that's a call you should make. I also think those

0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.320
<v Speaker 1>teams should be calling the Houston Police Department speak to

0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.440
<v Speaker 1>the investigators who spent nearly a year on the case.

0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:38.040
<v Speaker 1>The other important question is the idea of second chances,

0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.920
<v Speaker 1>and we hear that a lot in the NFL, and

0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 1>I think we all believe in second chances. But are

0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:49.199
<v Speaker 1>the second chances actually earned and what has been taken

0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.119
<v Speaker 1>on by the person being given the second chance to

0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.840
<v Speaker 1>show that maybe they've grown or they are taking the

0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.679
<v Speaker 1>behaviors that have been alleged head on and working on

0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.880
<v Speaker 1>things like has there been rehabilitation done? And I think

0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.359
<v Speaker 1>we so readily accept oh, yes, everyone should get a

0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:10.200
<v Speaker 1>second chance without actually asking what work has been done

0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:16.120
<v Speaker 1>to earn that second chance. You have done really excellent

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 1>and important reporting on this, Jenny. Thank you for this,

0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:26.479
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for the time, thanks for listening, and a reminder

0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.119
<v Speaker 1>to please rate and review us wherever you listen. It

0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.760
<v Speaker 1>helps people find us. Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production

0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.359
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<v Speaker 1>for more of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts,

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<v Speaker 1>visit SI dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly

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<v Speaker 1>was produced by Jordan Rizzieri, Jessica Yourmoski, and Isaac Lee,

0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:57.760
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0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Dan Bloom and Harry sword Out. Our executive producers are

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<v Speaker 1>by Nolan Schneider. Please be on the lookout for new

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<v Speaker 1>Wherever you get your favorite podcasts, Yeah,