WEBVTT - Alexander Pantages "The Beast"

0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.440
<v Speaker 1>This show contains mature content and adult themes. It may

0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:12.919
<v Speaker 1>not be suitable for young audiences.

0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:17.919
<v Speaker 2>In twenty seventeen, Harvey Weinstein was outed as a serial

0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.240
<v Speaker 2>sexual abuser. Many brave women came forward and told their stories.

0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:26.000
<v Speaker 2>They exposed one of Hollywood's most powerful mobiles as a

0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:31.800
<v Speaker 2>vicious sexual predator who operated horrifically and seemingly without consequences.

0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.239
<v Speaker 2>But Weinstein was standing on the shoulders of monsters. For

0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:40.479
<v Speaker 2>so many years, those monsters remained unchecked in Hollywood, shielded

0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.240
<v Speaker 2>by the millions of dollars they made for their studios.

0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.519
<v Speaker 2>Sex for fame is not new. In fact, it's as

0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.800
<v Speaker 2>old as Hollywood itself. This is Variety Confidential, the secret

0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:54.440
<v Speaker 2>history of the casting couch. Today's episode is the Beast.

0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:59.240
<v Speaker 2>Alexander Pantages will go back nearly one hundred years ago

0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.720
<v Speaker 2>in the variety of archives to tell what one might

0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.759
<v Speaker 2>call the origin of Me Too, about an early Hollywood

0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:10.720
<v Speaker 2>mogul named Alexander Pantages. He loomed large over the entertainment

0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.559
<v Speaker 2>scene of the nineteen twenties and thirties in ways later

0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:18.200
<v Speaker 2>emulated by hit makers slash sexual predators such as Don Simpson,

0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Harvey Weinstein and so many others Pantages used his money

0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:27.039
<v Speaker 2>and power to behave horrifically. He successfully escaped justice thanks

0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.800
<v Speaker 2>to an attorney who set the pace for lawyers made

0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.959
<v Speaker 2>rich by clients who regularly abused vulnerable young men and

0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.959
<v Speaker 2>women who were drawn to Hollywood by its promise of

0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.560
<v Speaker 2>riches and fame. This season, we look at the secret

0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:45.160
<v Speaker 2>history of the casting couch. Episode one, The Beast from

0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Variety in iHeart Podcasts. I'm Tracy Patton. Sitting next to

0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:55.760
<v Speaker 2>me is Matt Donnelly, Variety's senior Entertainment and media writer. Hi, Matt, Hi,

0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Thanks so much for having me. It's great to have

0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.920
<v Speaker 2>you here. So today we're focused on what we're calling

0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:05.160
<v Speaker 2>character assassination. It's a frequently used tactic used against me

0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.960
<v Speaker 2>too accusers in Hollywood, also known as victim shaming. Harvey

0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Weinstein was an expert at this absolutely.

0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:14.840
<v Speaker 3>I think that, you know, time will prove that this

0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.480
<v Speaker 3>is what Harvey really excelled at as opposed to making

0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.239
<v Speaker 3>in marketing films. And he also took it to such

0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.239
<v Speaker 3>an incredible extreme. You know, Harvey, as Ron and Pharaoh

0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.120
<v Speaker 3>deeply reported employed x maussade agents to stalk victims tap

0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.480
<v Speaker 3>phones and also really work the press to inspire as

0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.160
<v Speaker 3>much doubt as he could in his accusers.

0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.560
<v Speaker 2>And of course Harvey Weinstein wasn't the only accused abuser

0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.959
<v Speaker 2>who used this tactic. Who were some of the others, Matt.

0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:40.720
<v Speaker 3>I mean, this practice is sort of as old as

0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:42.600
<v Speaker 3>the town itself. But if you know, some of the

0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.160
<v Speaker 3>things that we've been looking at recently at Variety include

0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.880
<v Speaker 3>the incredibly distressing allegations against Sean Combs better known as

0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.240
<v Speaker 3>Diddy or puff Daddy, And even if you go back

0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.960
<v Speaker 3>a couple of years ago to the scandal at Warner

0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.440
<v Speaker 3>Brothers involving an actress named Charlotte Kirk that ensnared the

0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.679
<v Speaker 3>head of the studio, Kevin shu Jahara, and especially I

0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.359
<v Speaker 3>think in terms of that case, really dissecting a woman's

0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.000
<v Speaker 3>social media, how she positions herself in the world. It's

0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.120
<v Speaker 3>quite disturbing, but it's quite a frequent practice.

0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.919
<v Speaker 2>Well, using the media to smear an accuser is not new.

0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.480
<v Speaker 2>A lot of people don't know this, but for much

0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:18.799
<v Speaker 2>of the last century, a victim's sexual history was allowed

0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:23.200
<v Speaker 2>as evidence a trial. It became legally admissible after a

0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.000
<v Speaker 2>state Supreme Court ruling in nineteen thirty one.

0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.720
<v Speaker 3>It's actually stunning how many actresses and models have been

0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.120
<v Speaker 3>subject to this practice. And it's something that started one hundred.

0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:35.080
<v Speaker 2>Years ago, Yes, and it was pioneered in the case

0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.760
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about today, which brings us back to Alexander Pantages.

0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.680
<v Speaker 2>The case before the court was the trial of a

0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Hollywood theatrical producer who was accused of statutory rape. His

0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.120
<v Speaker 2>accuser was a seventeen year old dancer who wore a

0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.120
<v Speaker 2>red dress to an audition, making her look older than

0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.560
<v Speaker 2>she was. The court ruled that her sexual history was

0:03:55.760 --> 0:04:01.480
<v Speaker 2>fair game at trial. That ruling negatively impacted women's lives nationwide.

0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.640
<v Speaker 2>This was the first case that made this well known,

0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:09.600
<v Speaker 2>and it happened right here in Hollywood. So here's what happened.

0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.560
<v Speaker 2>The California Supreme Court ruling in nineteen thirty one was

0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.800
<v Speaker 2>the result of a high powered, well funded effort to

0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.560
<v Speaker 2>protect one of Hollywood's biggest names. Had it failed, that

0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.160
<v Speaker 2>man would have spent the rest of his life in prison.

0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:28.040
<v Speaker 2>His name was Alexander Pantages. Before the Roaring twenties, he

0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.360
<v Speaker 2>had created a circuit of vaudeville theaters that numbered almost

0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:35.760
<v Speaker 2>one hundred. He booked vaudeville acts that played between film screenings,

0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:40.720
<v Speaker 2>a format Variety dubbed vaud film. The live acts included

0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:45.240
<v Speaker 2>family entertainment along with what Variety called cheap girl flash acts.

0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.239
<v Speaker 2>He was a very powerful guy. He was also famous

0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.760
<v Speaker 2>for something else, his romances. It became clear to Alexander

0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Pantages that movies would replace vaudeville sooner or later. Talkies

0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:02.000
<v Speaker 2>were in transition. His theaters catered to both. Alex had

0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.640
<v Speaker 2>money and he was decently handsome. The affairs came easily,

0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:09.080
<v Speaker 2>but they also got him into trouble. You could often

0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:13.040
<v Speaker 2>see alex with women in dark corners of speakeasies. His wife,

0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:17.160
<v Speaker 2>Lois was nowhere to be seen. One affair went public

0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.920
<v Speaker 2>after a bloody fight over a dancer. His arrest made

0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.760
<v Speaker 2>the front page of the Los Angeles Times, and it

0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.400
<v Speaker 2>was a woman, or actually a teenage girl, who led

0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:32.360
<v Speaker 2>to his ultimate undoing. On August ninth, nineteen twenty nine,

0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.240
<v Speaker 2>he was charged with assaulting a seventeen year old dancer

0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:41.839
<v Speaker 2>named Eunice Pringle. Eunice Pringle studied dance and took acting

0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.919
<v Speaker 2>classes in high school. She attended the University of southern

0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.479
<v Speaker 2>California for a year, but dropped out to pursue a

0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:51.440
<v Speaker 2>career as a dancer. In early nineteen twenty nine, she

0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:56.359
<v Speaker 2>met a Russian writer and actor named Nicholas Dunyeev. He

0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:00.680
<v Speaker 2>was dark, handsome, and forty five years old. It was

0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.359
<v Speaker 2>Dunieev who set up an audition with Pantages Vaudeville. Axe

0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.960
<v Speaker 2>earned between one hundred and two hundred dollars a week

0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.640
<v Speaker 2>that's about twenty five hundred dollars today. Despite her years

0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:14.200
<v Speaker 2>of preparation in weeks of rehearsal, the audition on May one,

0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.800
<v Speaker 2>nineteen twenty nine did not go well. Instead of moving

0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.039
<v Speaker 2>on to the next audition, Eunice and Nick persisted in

0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.240
<v Speaker 2>trying to get Alex to hire them, and this is

0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.640
<v Speaker 2>where things got strange. Over the spring and summer of

0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.080
<v Speaker 2>nineteen twenty nine, Unis tried to get in touch with

0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.279
<v Speaker 2>Alex Pantages at least twelve times that's once a week

0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:37.120
<v Speaker 2>for three months. Eventually, Alex offered Unice a one time

0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.320
<v Speaker 2>booking at his theater in Fresno. He also offered her

0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.600
<v Speaker 2>a gig and a review, but she said no. Finally,

0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.520
<v Speaker 2>he simply gave her the brush off, but she ignored it.

0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.599
<v Speaker 2>Late in the afternoon of August ninth, nineteen twenty nine,

0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Eunice Pringle went to see Alex for what would be

0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:56.200
<v Speaker 2>the last time. She wore a red crape dress with

0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.480
<v Speaker 2>a short red velvet jacket. She was shown up to

0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.880
<v Speaker 2>the second floor and the waiting area outside Alex's large

0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.000
<v Speaker 2>corner office. He was busy and invited her to watch

0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.200
<v Speaker 2>a movie in the theater downstairs while she waited. She

0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.640
<v Speaker 2>went down to the mezzanine, slipped in through the balcony entrance,

0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.880
<v Speaker 2>and found a seat in the theatre's top row. She

0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:20.160
<v Speaker 2>waded through the entire last half of Melody Lane, Universal

0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Studio's first movie musical. Alex eventually found her and escorted

0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.520
<v Speaker 2>her back to the mezzanine, up a short flight of stairs,

0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.560
<v Speaker 2>and into a utility room which was secluded from both

0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.720
<v Speaker 2>the theater below and the offices upstairs. After a few

0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.120
<v Speaker 2>minutes in the room alone with Alex, Eunice swung the

0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.800
<v Speaker 2>door open and started a scream. Men from Pantage's office

0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.400
<v Speaker 2>rushed downstairs to the mezzanine room. She pushed past them,

0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.360
<v Speaker 2>fled down the stairs, through the theater lobby and out

0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.520
<v Speaker 2>to Hill Street. She returned within minutes with a policeman

0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.880
<v Speaker 2>a traffic cop in tow. They went to the small room,

0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.000
<v Speaker 2>but Alex was gone. She knew where to find him.

0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.600
<v Speaker 2>She led the policeman upstairs to Alex's corner office. There

0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.640
<v Speaker 2>he is, she said, the beast, the brute. Don't let

0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.240
<v Speaker 2>him get away. Because she was under age, Eunice was

0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.840
<v Speaker 2>taken to juvenile hall. A female officer found bitemarks and

0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.920
<v Speaker 2>abrasions on her neck and upper torso. Afterward, a staff

0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:21.960
<v Speaker 2>doctor performed a thorough medical examination. Later, Eunice, accompanied by

0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.360
<v Speaker 2>her mother, gave her statement to detectives. Variety reported what

0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:30.040
<v Speaker 2>she said in a story titled A Very Nasty Mess.

0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Quoting here, she stated she had been promised work by

0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Alexander Pantagas for almost a year and had frequently visited

0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.960
<v Speaker 2>his office. She alleges Pantagus told her to wait for

0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.960
<v Speaker 2>him in the theater. Upon his return, she claims he

0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.720
<v Speaker 2>invited her into a small room and closed the door.

0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.600
<v Speaker 2>She told police Pantagus started edging toward her, and when

0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:54.560
<v Speaker 2>she protested, he suddenly struck her. Then, she said, she

0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.880
<v Speaker 2>started a scream. Pantagus put his hand over her mouth

0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:02.080
<v Speaker 2>and she fainted. She didn't remember what happened next. After

0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.440
<v Speaker 2>his arrest, Pantages was taken in handcuffs to the Central

0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:10.160
<v Speaker 2>Police station. He was interrogated for five hours. Alex told

0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.640
<v Speaker 2>the detectives that after declining to book unics, he offered

0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.079
<v Speaker 2>to help her find gigs in minor vaudeville houses up north.

0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:22.120
<v Speaker 2>According to Variety, he claimed he was framed. The girl

0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.480
<v Speaker 2>was the aggressor. She ripped her dress, dropped to the

0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.439
<v Speaker 2>floor and started a scream. He said it was an

0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:32.000
<v Speaker 2>extortion scheme. He could book her act and pay her handsomely,

0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:36.920
<v Speaker 2>or she'd accuse him of rape. The detectives didn't buy it.

0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.080
<v Speaker 2>They booked him on suspicion of statutory rape. Alex had

0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.360
<v Speaker 2>his mugshots and fingerprints taken. He spent hours in a

0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.080
<v Speaker 2>cell waiting for his lawyer to bail them out, but

0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:53.960
<v Speaker 2>no such luck. Alexander Pantages, theoter magnate and Hollywood power player,

0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.840
<v Speaker 2>spent the night in jail. While he was behind bars,

0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.240
<v Speaker 2>his life was turned upside down. News of his arrest

0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.800
<v Speaker 2>went out over the wire services. The scandal blew up

0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.040
<v Speaker 2>nationwide overnight. He was famously no friend of the press,

0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:13.120
<v Speaker 2>especially the trades. He despised their negative stories about his

0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:17.400
<v Speaker 2>business practices. Variety's nickname for him was synonymous with a

0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:19.079
<v Speaker 2>bad review. Pan.

0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:21.120
<v Speaker 3>That's an incredible nickname.

0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:21.640
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:23.719
<v Speaker 3>It's my experience in doing these kinds of stories of

0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.719
<v Speaker 3>Variety that when anytime an accused mogul wants to call

0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.480
<v Speaker 3>his coverage negative, he should probably change his own actions for.

0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Well. Meanwhile, with help from Nick Duniev's lawyer friend Theodore Gottstanker,

0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Unus sued Alex for five hundred thousand dollars about seven

0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:43.120
<v Speaker 2>and a half million dollars today. If he was found

0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:47.480
<v Speaker 2>guilty of statutory rape, he would probably die in jail.

0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Alex's trial began on October third, nineteen twenty nine, two

0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:56.120
<v Speaker 2>months after he was arrested. He was accompanied to court

0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.600
<v Speaker 2>by his daughter and two sons. The courtroom gallery was

0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.280
<v Speaker 2>filled to capacity, including in the front rows about a

0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:07.280
<v Speaker 2>dozen newspaper men. The press was out for blood, and

0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.480
<v Speaker 2>so was the prosecution. Before the proceedings got underway, the

0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:16.760
<v Speaker 2>prosecution petitioned the court to prevent testimony about Unice's sexual history.

0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.599
<v Speaker 2>After a lengthy debate, the judge ruled Unice's sexual experience

0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.160
<v Speaker 2>was inadmissible. It shouldn't have been a close call. The

0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:29.240
<v Speaker 2>charge was statutory rape. The prosecution needed to prove just

0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.760
<v Speaker 2>two things, one that Unice was under age and two

0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:37.240
<v Speaker 2>that Pantages had sexual contact with her. If both were true,

0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:41.600
<v Speaker 2>he was guilty. Her sexual history was irrelevant. It was

0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.840
<v Speaker 2>that simple, or it should have been. In District Attorney

0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.679
<v Speaker 2>breen Fitz's opening statement, he depicted Eunice Pringle as a

0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:53.600
<v Speaker 2>young and innocent girl. Alex Pantages, on the other hand,

0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.000
<v Speaker 2>was a millionaire theater owner old enough to be her father.

0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.440
<v Speaker 2>He had led her on by falsely promising he would

0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.479
<v Speaker 2>book her act. He then lured her to a secluded

0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.640
<v Speaker 2>room in his office building, where he quote attacked and

0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.560
<v Speaker 2>debauched her. The defense opened by claiming that Eunice had

0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.960
<v Speaker 2>ensnared Alex in an extortion scheme. The attorney zeroed in

0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:19.000
<v Speaker 2>on Nick Dunyev after dropping Yunis off at the Pantages

0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.760
<v Speaker 2>building on August ninth. Daniev had waited nearby at the

0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:27.760
<v Speaker 2>law offices of Theodore Gotstanker, the same mister Gottstanker who

0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.880
<v Speaker 2>filed the lawsuit against Pantages the next day. The lawsuit

0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.319
<v Speaker 2>was part of the scheme. The attorney said. Unus staged

0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.840
<v Speaker 2>the so called assault with Duniev as an accomplice. It

0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.040
<v Speaker 2>was an attempt to frame Pantages and force him to

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:46.040
<v Speaker 2>pay them five hundred thousand dollars. In the afternoon, the

0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.520
<v Speaker 2>jury traveled six blocks south to the former Pantagous building.

0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.760
<v Speaker 2>It had been recently sold to Warner Brothers. They were

0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.559
<v Speaker 2>taken to the scene of the crime, the odd little

0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.720
<v Speaker 2>room off the mezzanine. The purpose of the tour was

0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.840
<v Speaker 2>to set the stage for us. Unus's testimony the next day.

0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.320
<v Speaker 2>She took the stand that morning dressed like a schoolgirl.

0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.680
<v Speaker 2>Because of the high profile of the case, Beeron Fitz,

0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:13.160
<v Speaker 2>the district attorney, questioned Unus himself. Fitz was a minor

0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.720
<v Speaker 2>political celebrity in California, a former lieutenant governor who liked

0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:22.480
<v Speaker 2>prosecuting the rich and famous. After preliminary questioning, Fitz asked

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Unus to take the jury through what happened in the

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.960
<v Speaker 2>mezzanine room on that August afternoon. We spoke of the

0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.120
<v Speaker 2>hot weather, she said, and then of my act. And

0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.280
<v Speaker 2>then I slipped off my little red coat. He took

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 2>off his coat after asking if I objected. We were

0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.600
<v Speaker 2>both seated, and he pulled his chair over and took

0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.280
<v Speaker 2>my hand. Then he slid his arm along the back

0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.320
<v Speaker 2>of my chair and along my shoulder. He said he

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.240
<v Speaker 2>wished I would be his sweetheart. He went on and

0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.920
<v Speaker 2>on and said that he was crazy about me. He

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 2>told me that he hated his wife. He would give

0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.000
<v Speaker 2>me anything I wanted. I told him I was not interested,

0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:04.240
<v Speaker 2>and I wished he would please be a gentleman. In

0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:09.120
<v Speaker 2>American Zeus, author Tasso g. Lagos wrote about how Pantages

0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.320
<v Speaker 2>pulled her to him and rose to his feet. Eunus said,

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.960
<v Speaker 2>trying to kiss her. She turned her head. He struck

0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.240
<v Speaker 2>her on the chin. She recoiled and tried to get away.

0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.600
<v Speaker 2>He pulled her to the floor and pinned her down,

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:27.200
<v Speaker 2>all the while whispering seductively. She begged him to let

0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.800
<v Speaker 2>her go. When he wouldn't, she tried to scream. He

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 2>clapped his hand on her mouth to stifle her. He

0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:39.240
<v Speaker 2>kissed her throat. The kisses turned to bites. Da Fits

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.120
<v Speaker 2>asked Eunus to show where Pantages bit her. She touched

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:47.080
<v Speaker 2>her left breast and then her left shoulder, but stopped

0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.560
<v Speaker 2>in mid gesture. She couldn't go on. She began to cry.

0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Unus composed herself. She'd fainted, she said. When she came to,

0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.320
<v Speaker 2>they were on the floor. His pants were on buttoned,

0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.320
<v Speaker 2>her dress was ripped. Eunice pushed him off and staggered

0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 2>to her feet. She noticed a spot on her dress,

0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:11.480
<v Speaker 2>a dark, wet stain. She opened the door and started

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 2>to scream. In the afternoon, Unice was cross examined by

0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:20.520
<v Speaker 2>Pantaga's lead attorney, Jerry Geesler. The Pantagous trial was his

0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 2>first big case, but he will become one of Hollywood's

0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:30.520
<v Speaker 2>most successful fixers. Decades before private investigator Anthony Pellicano went

0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:36.240
<v Speaker 2>to prison for helping top Hollywood attorney's fix problems, Geesler

0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.880
<v Speaker 2>practically invented the practice. Over the years, his client list

0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:46.160
<v Speaker 2>would include Marilyn Monroe, Lana Turner, Charlie Chaplin, Benjamin Bugsy,

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.720
<v Speaker 2>siegeal Errol Flynn, and many others. But it was this case,

0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 2>the Pantage's rape trial, that put him on the map.

0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.200
<v Speaker 3>You know, the archetype of the Hollywood fixer is very

0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 3>fascinating to me, and I think everyone at variety. It's

0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 3>a certain set of skills, and God knows people like

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 3>Maril Monroe had problems that needed to be fixed. But

0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:09.520
<v Speaker 3>I'm very curious to see how he implemented his practices

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:11.720
<v Speaker 3>and especially in terms of this case.

0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Well true to form. Geesler focused the jury on Unus's clothing.

0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 2>He asked the judge to make Unus change into the

0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:23.080
<v Speaker 2>red dress she wore on August ninth. The prosecution objected,

0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.760
<v Speaker 2>but the judge agreed to it. He called a recess

0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.680
<v Speaker 2>while she changed clothes. When she returned to the witness stand,

0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.680
<v Speaker 2>she was wearing the red dress, velvet jacket, and red pumps.

0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Geesler asked her to model her outfit for the jury.

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.240
<v Speaker 2>After another heated debate, the judge allowed that too. Unus

0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.800
<v Speaker 2>stepped down and made a simple pass in front of

0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.520
<v Speaker 2>the jury box. Geesler asked her to remove the jacket.

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 2>She slipped it off, revealing the form fitting, sleeveless dress

0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:59.680
<v Speaker 2>that accentuated her cleavage. Geesler had made his point. Decades

0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:03.000
<v Speaker 2>of day faming and blaming the victims of sexual assault

0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 2>essentially began here.

0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.280
<v Speaker 3>It's so interesting, how you know someone like Gesler is

0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.320
<v Speaker 3>using the principles of show business to sway a jury right,

0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.720
<v Speaker 3>Like it's literally trotting someone out and doing this sort

0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.240
<v Speaker 3>of seduction in a way. But what I can't help

0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.840
<v Speaker 3>thinking of is what you mentioned earlier about what the

0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:22.560
<v Speaker 3>defense had said, is that the only two things that

0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.479
<v Speaker 3>mattered were was Unus underage and did he have sexual

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.600
<v Speaker 3>contact with her? But here we are with this, like

0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.399
<v Speaker 3>you know, this ridiculous circus in the court.

0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.719
<v Speaker 2>Room, Geesler questioned her about her training as an actor,

0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.480
<v Speaker 2>implying that her emotional breakdown earlier had been a performance.

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.679
<v Speaker 2>He also challenged her on the mechanics of the attack.

0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.639
<v Speaker 2>How could Pantages hold your mouth shut with his right hand,

0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.720
<v Speaker 2>pin down both your arms, and then somehow remove your

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:52.080
<v Speaker 2>underclothes and unfasten his pants. Why didn't you fight him off?

0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.960
<v Speaker 2>When it was over, Eunice left the stand shaken and unsteady.

0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:01.439
<v Speaker 2>The final prosecution witness was the forensic guy who'd analyzed

0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.600
<v Speaker 2>the stain on Unus's dress. His answer was unprintable in

0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:09.880
<v Speaker 2>those days, presumably it was semen. After he stepped down,

0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.840
<v Speaker 2>the prosecution rested as its first witness. The defense called

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:19.119
<v Speaker 2>the defendant, Alex Pantages. He complained that Eunice's visits that

0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.320
<v Speaker 2>summer were annoying. When they sat down in the mezziting

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:25.240
<v Speaker 2>room the day of the attack, he claimed she surprised

0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.000
<v Speaker 2>him by grabbing his tie and pulling him toward her.

0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.239
<v Speaker 2>He tried to get away. They struggled and ended up

0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.720
<v Speaker 2>on the floor. She screamed and started ripping her clothes.

0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.160
<v Speaker 2>He shoved her off, then claims that she ran off

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.080
<v Speaker 2>down to the lobby. During the cross examination, Alex shut

0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:46.159
<v Speaker 2>down under the DA's unfriendly grilling. He answered questions with

0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.840
<v Speaker 2>a stubborn yes or no. On October twenty sixth, the

0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:56.240
<v Speaker 2>jury announced its verdict to a packed courtroom. Guilty as charged,

0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Alex was sentenced the next day to fifty years in

0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.040
<v Speaker 2>stea Quentin. He was in his fifties, so this was

0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.560
<v Speaker 2>a life sentence. Two days after the verdict, the stock

0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.240
<v Speaker 2>market crash, setting the stage for the Great Depression. The

0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:15.400
<v Speaker 2>crash prompted one of Variety's most famous headlines, Wall Street

0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Lays and Egg. Meanwhile, Jerry Giesler's team completed the appeal

0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.200
<v Speaker 2>of Alex's conviction. The brief was twelve hundred pages and

0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:29.399
<v Speaker 2>focused on the judge's banning testimony about Eunice Pringle's sexual history.

0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.399
<v Speaker 2>While the appeal was in the works, Pantages was held

0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.160
<v Speaker 2>in County Jail. Out of the Blue, Alex was granted

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:41.920
<v Speaker 2>parole on one hundred thousand dollars bond, but trouble found

0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.359
<v Speaker 2>him again. On October thirtieth, on a business trip to

0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.280
<v Speaker 2>San Diego, a couple of his colleagues were partying at

0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.600
<v Speaker 2>the El Cortes Hotel. They also hired a couple of

0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.760
<v Speaker 2>girls from Hollywood to liven things up. Supposedly, these girls

0:19:55.800 --> 0:20:00.040
<v Speaker 2>were underage again. Four months later, on March tenth, in

0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.439
<v Speaker 2>nineteen thirty one, Alex and his wife Lois crossed the

0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:05.800
<v Speaker 2>border for a little r and r at the Agua

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Caliente Hotel south of Tijuana. But then Alex's lawyer showed

0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.800
<v Speaker 2>up unexpectedly with some bad news. The San Diego District

0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Attorney planned to arrest Alex within twenty four hours. The

0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.960
<v Speaker 2>charge was contributing to the delinquency of a minor, along

0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:27.200
<v Speaker 2>with a related conspiracy charge. The accusers were the girls

0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.680
<v Speaker 2>he partied with in October. One of them, Lydia Nitto,

0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:36.000
<v Speaker 2>was sixteen years old. Alex admitted to the partying, but

0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.399
<v Speaker 2>said he didn't touch Lydia Nitto. Or anyone else. He

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.800
<v Speaker 2>claimed he was being framed again in an attempt to

0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.800
<v Speaker 2>ruin his chances for a retrial. In the Pringle case,

0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.800
<v Speaker 2>the girls had been procured from a trafficking operation called

0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:54.640
<v Speaker 2>a lovemart. Its specialty was providing underage girls for wealthy men.

0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.360
<v Speaker 2>When the love Mart's supply of girls was low, police

0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:03.080
<v Speaker 2>said they kidnapped girls from orphanages. Because of this, the

0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:08.520
<v Speaker 2>press dubbed Alex's new scandal the love Mark Case. Alex's

0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:12.240
<v Speaker 2>life took another upswing a few weeks later, on April second,

0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.400
<v Speaker 2>nineteen thirty one, the California Supreme Court ruled in favor

0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.320
<v Speaker 2>of his appeal. The court agreed with Jerry Geesler that

0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Eunice's quote previous acts of unchastity should have been presented.

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:31.359
<v Speaker 2>They became relevant, the justices said, because the prosecution made

0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:35.720
<v Speaker 2>her virginity an issue. The court ordered a retrial on

0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:39.440
<v Speaker 2>the Pringle charges. In a statement to the press, Geesler

0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:44.040
<v Speaker 2>predicted that the reversal would quote establish precedent and authority

0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:48.080
<v Speaker 2>not only in California but throughout the nation. He got

0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:52.280
<v Speaker 2>that right. The ruling would set back rape victims' rights

0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 2>for decades. In early June nineteen thirty one, the pantageous

0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:00.760
<v Speaker 2>love Mark case went to trial in San Diego. Prosecution's

0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:05.119
<v Speaker 2>first witness was Lydia Nitto, Alex's accuser. She gave a

0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.560
<v Speaker 2>tearful account of an orgy at the El Cortes in October,

0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:13.679
<v Speaker 2>but under cross examination by Jerry Giesler, Geiesler produced an

0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:17.720
<v Speaker 2>affidavid proving that she was born in nineteen oh eight.

0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.159
<v Speaker 2>She was twenty two at the time of the lovemart orgy,

0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:25.560
<v Speaker 2>not sixteen. The judge dismissed the statutory rape charge, but

0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:29.119
<v Speaker 2>let stand the conspiracy to corrupt charge related to the

0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:33.680
<v Speaker 2>other girl. Testimony continued for two more weeks. The jury

0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:38.120
<v Speaker 2>deliberated for two days but then deadlocked. A retrial was scheduled,

0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:42.720
<v Speaker 2>but it never happened. Alex Pantages had dodged a second

0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:46.400
<v Speaker 2>life in prison verdict. The retrial in the Pringle case

0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:49.879
<v Speaker 2>began in the late fall. Because of the Supreme Court ruling,

0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.920
<v Speaker 2>the defense was free to flip the tables and put

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Eunice on trial. They did it with the testimony of

0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:00.760
<v Speaker 2>new witnesses. The most important new witness was the physician

0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 2>who examined Unis on August ninth, According to the La Times,

0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:09.280
<v Speaker 2>the doctor quote expressed disbelief in miss Pringle's account of

0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:13.199
<v Speaker 2>her life prior to this time. In other words, the

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:17.280
<v Speaker 2>doctor found that Unice had been sexually active before the incident.

0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:22.600
<v Speaker 2>She was not a virgin. The jury deliberated for sixty

0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:29.920
<v Speaker 2>four hours. Their verdict reversed the previous jury not guilty. Later,

0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:33.399
<v Speaker 2>Uni spoke to reporters. The verdict shows the value the

0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:36.840
<v Speaker 2>state of California places on its girls, she said. It

0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:39.440
<v Speaker 2>shows me that a person who gave the best ten

0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:42.879
<v Speaker 2>years of her life fighting for justice is lost. It

0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:46.160
<v Speaker 2>convinces me that the state will not protect its women.

0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:49.440
<v Speaker 3>I can't get over how profound that statement is and

0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:52.560
<v Speaker 3>how so relevant it is today and even sort of prophetic.

0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:56.320
<v Speaker 3>What an incredible woman who, unfortunately I deciphered through all this.

0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.720
<v Speaker 2>After the second trial, Eunice Pringle settled her one point

0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:04.160
<v Speaker 2>five five million dollar lawsuits against pantages for three thousand dollars.

0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:07.880
<v Speaker 2>She changed her name and her career. She married well

0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:10.760
<v Speaker 2>and moved to La Jolla, an upscale seaside suburb of

0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:15.280
<v Speaker 2>San Diego. Known there as Tony Worthington. She lived out

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:19.040
<v Speaker 2>her life in comfortable obscurity, She died in nineteen ninety

0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:22.240
<v Speaker 2>six at the age of eighty four. The scandal did

0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:25.800
<v Speaker 2>not bankrupt Alex Pantages. He had millions in the bank

0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:28.840
<v Speaker 2>and millions more from the sale of his theaters. He

0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:32.520
<v Speaker 2>announced plans to build new theaters in November nineteen thirty five,

0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:35.840
<v Speaker 2>but it was not to be. He died in his

0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 2>sleep on February seventeenth, nineteen thirty six. He left a

0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:45.199
<v Speaker 2>lasting legacy. However, his last theater, the Hollywood Pantages, is

0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:49.480
<v Speaker 2>still in business and remains one of the premier theatrical

0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:53.520
<v Speaker 2>venues in the country. The Pantagous trials have a legacy too.

0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:59.119
<v Speaker 2>Jerry Geiesler's prediction came true. The California Supreme Court ruling

0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:03.680
<v Speaker 2>became a p nationwide. Defense attorneys used it to put

0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:07.920
<v Speaker 2>their client's accusers on trial. Over time, courts ruled that

0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:12.560
<v Speaker 2>certain behaviors could undercut a victim's accusation of rape. A

0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:15.199
<v Speaker 2>rapist might go free if his accuser was known to

0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:20.120
<v Speaker 2>dress provocatively, own condoms, or travel alone at night, or

0:25:20.200 --> 0:25:25.320
<v Speaker 2>even if she drank, smoked, or used drugs. Eventually, however,

0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:29.160
<v Speaker 2>there was a bright light. Congress passed the Violence Against

0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Women Act in nineteen ninety four. The Act included a

0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:36.800
<v Speaker 2>National Rape Shield Law, a provision that reversed the pantagious

0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Precedent ruling six decades earlier. Today, the Shield law remains

0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:44.919
<v Speaker 2>an important legal tool in the search for justice in

0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:49.240
<v Speaker 2>the era of Me Too. Given all this background, has

0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:51.840
<v Speaker 2>the Me Too movement had an effect on the tactic

0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:54.760
<v Speaker 2>of victim shaming and media smear campaigns.

0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:56.720
<v Speaker 3>I think it's yes and no. I think one of

0:25:56.760 --> 0:25:59.199
<v Speaker 3>the most important things that we saw in sort of

0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:01.600
<v Speaker 3>that spectacular take down of Harvey and the larger Me

0:26:01.640 --> 0:26:04.119
<v Speaker 3>Too movement is that, you know, the general public are

0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:06.920
<v Speaker 3>much more savvy about these soda smear campaigns now. I

0:26:06.960 --> 0:26:09.399
<v Speaker 3>think it's much less plausible and effective when you know,

0:26:09.480 --> 0:26:12.479
<v Speaker 3>the average Joe knows exactly what this tactic is and

0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 3>what it's designed to do. So that's one good thing.

0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:17.280
<v Speaker 3>So I'm thinking even the level of you know, when

0:26:17.280 --> 0:26:19.399
<v Speaker 3>you're going to jury selection, I don't think that the

0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:22.639
<v Speaker 3>average person would be so susceptible to a stunt like

0:26:22.880 --> 0:26:25.760
<v Speaker 3>as ridiculous as parading a young unit springle around in

0:26:25.760 --> 0:26:26.399
<v Speaker 3>a red dress.

0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:30.920
<v Speaker 2>And yet the whole media piece of this, though, how

0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:33.399
<v Speaker 2>do you think that fits in the fact that what

0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:36.480
<v Speaker 2>Harvey did with his media machine, as they called.

0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:40.440
<v Speaker 3>It, absolutely I think that by and large Harvey's biggest

0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:42.720
<v Speaker 3>contribution to the business was as a marketer. He really

0:26:42.800 --> 0:26:44.960
<v Speaker 3>knew how to sell films and using the press and

0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:47.160
<v Speaker 3>utilizing the press was a really important piece of that.

0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:48.960
<v Speaker 3>I think one of the most important parts of Me

0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:52.159
<v Speaker 3>Too is making journalists and larger media question how they

0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:55.200
<v Speaker 3>are complicit in certain things. So I would I would

0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:56.800
<v Speaker 3>hope that that's definitely changed as.

0:26:56.680 --> 0:26:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, because it's interesting because he had that pr media

0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.359
<v Speaker 2>machine that Ronan Farrow had talked about in his article

0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:06.560
<v Speaker 2>and variety everyone has talked about. Yet in the end

0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:07.440
<v Speaker 2>it didn't work.

0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:10.760
<v Speaker 3>Night Absolutely, it kind of backfired, especially after, you know,

0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:13.679
<v Speaker 3>especially toward the m when Hearty visually fighting for his life,

0:27:13.680 --> 0:27:16.120
<v Speaker 3>you know, strying to comprise a legal dream team, trying

0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:19.840
<v Speaker 3>to discredit each individual accuser from people as incredibly famous

0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:22.600
<v Speaker 3>like Gwyneth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie. There wasn't enough for

0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:24.320
<v Speaker 3>him to throw with a walt to convince even just

0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:27.119
<v Speaker 3>the most rudimentary of people observing the case that this

0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:29.080
<v Speaker 3>wasn't a desperate attempt to save his reputation.

0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Regarding the unis Springle case. Do you have any final

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:36.880
<v Speaker 2>thoughts about that after now hearing this whole story.

0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:38.639
<v Speaker 3>I have, Well, first of all, I just have a

0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:40.880
<v Speaker 3>tremendous amount of respect for her, you know, I don't

0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:43.000
<v Speaker 3>think that a lot of people, especially ones who become

0:27:43.040 --> 0:27:46.879
<v Speaker 3>symbols of movements like these, have any intention of becoming that.

0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:49.200
<v Speaker 3>I think she wanted to be an actress and a performer,

0:27:49.240 --> 0:27:51.600
<v Speaker 3>and to find herself unwittingly at the center of an

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:55.080
<v Speaker 3>unprecedented legal case after an assault like that. It's just

0:27:55.480 --> 0:27:57.400
<v Speaker 3>I have so much respect for her and her bravery.

0:27:57.760 --> 0:28:00.600
<v Speaker 3>But more than that, I do think that it's I

0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:02.920
<v Speaker 3>think a sadly necessary thing to sort of litigate, you

0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:05.400
<v Speaker 3>know what I mean. And seeing someone like Geesler, who's

0:28:05.400 --> 0:28:08.560
<v Speaker 3>also a really fascinating character too, it's always helpful to

0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:10.720
<v Speaker 3>see these tactics reverse engineered so we know how to

0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:13.320
<v Speaker 3>avoid them in our search for justice. It really shows

0:28:13.359 --> 0:28:15.399
<v Speaker 3>you that history is not the steady climb toward the

0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:17.719
<v Speaker 3>light right. There's lots of peaks and valleys in our

0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:20.280
<v Speaker 3>attempt for equity and fairness and nonviolence.

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you Matt for all your comments and your

0:28:24.040 --> 0:28:25.199
<v Speaker 2>insights today.

0:28:25.480 --> 0:28:27.600
<v Speaker 3>My pleasure. Thank you for telling me this incredible story

0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:28.800
<v Speaker 3>about Uni Springle.

0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:33.320
<v Speaker 2>And thanks for joining us for Variety Confidentials, the Secret

0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:36.120
<v Speaker 2>history of the Casting Couch. This has been episode one

0:28:36.160 --> 0:28:40.160
<v Speaker 2>of the Beast for Variety and iHeart podcasts. I'm Tracy Patton.

0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Variety Confidential is produced by Sidney Kramer, John Ponder, and

0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Tracy Patton and written by Stephen Gatos. John Ponder and

0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:52.480
<v Speaker 2>Tracy Patton. Executive producers are Dea Lawrence and Stephen Gatos.

0:28:52.960 --> 0:28:58.360
<v Speaker 2>Additional research by Karen Nizogucci, recording engineer, editor and mixer

0:28:58.800 --> 0:28:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Charles Carroll