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Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: I have had a cough for nearly a month. On Monday,

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Speaker 1: it'll be a month. I am losing my mind. I

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Speaker 1: can't drink tea anymore. I'm so sick of the taste.

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Speaker 1: I just drink like boiling water. A few listeners have

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Speaker 1: messaged me saying my voice sounds different on some episodes.

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Speaker 1: And I tweeted a jokey tweet about my cough weeks

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Speaker 1: ago now, and I got like seven hundred responses, because

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Speaker 1: that's Twitter. I'm fine, probably I've been to the doctor

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Speaker 1: three times now. I'm not just ignoring it the way

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Speaker 1: I usually would with my ailments. My lungs are clear,

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Speaker 1: just have a cough. I can't seem to shake it.

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Speaker 1: I sing all this because I've been thinking about gratefulness gratitude.

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Speaker 1: They're not exactly the same, but I use gratefulness. When

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Speaker 1: you're sick, it's all you can think about. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think about it all day, the fact that I

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Speaker 1: can't stop coughing. I think about how I took good

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Speaker 1: health completely for granted. And again I get that this

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Speaker 1: is hopefully not serious or it is. I know there

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Speaker 1: are people who are chronically ill or have life threatening sicknesses.

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Speaker 1: I know I'm comparatively lucky, but I look around at

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Speaker 1: a world of people who aren't afraid to suddenly have

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Speaker 1: a coughing fit at their kids back to school night

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Speaker 1: and think they don't even know how lucky they are,

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Speaker 1: or have a coughing fit during a podcast or live

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Speaker 1: TV appearance. It turns out that constantly coughing doesn't really

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Speaker 1: work for my job or by general life. It's made

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Speaker 1: me take stock. If most things are going right in

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Speaker 1: your life, remember to feel grateful for it. No one

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Speaker 1: has everything go perfectly. I get that this is not

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Speaker 1: a huge deal, but I'm definitely a little bit more

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Speaker 1: aware of how good I have it after a month

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Speaker 1: of not feeling great. I try to be grateful in

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Speaker 1: my everyday life and to have gratitude for what I have.

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Speaker 1: I'm definitely going to be trying harder now. Coming up next,

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Speaker 1: an interview with Andy no. Join us after the break.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is Andy No. Andy is a journalist best

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Speaker 1: known for reporting on Antifa and far left extremism. He

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Speaker 1: is a senior editor at The Post Millennial and has

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Speaker 1: written reports for The New York Post, Newsweek and others.

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Speaker 1: He drew national attention when he was beaten repeatedly by

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Speaker 1: Antifa on the streets of Portland. His book, Unmasked Inside

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Speaker 1: Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy was a New York

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Speaker 1: Times bestseller. Hi Andy, so nice to have you on.

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Speaker 2: Hi Carol, thank you so much for the invitation.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think of you as someone who who

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Speaker 1: definitely transcends all the different groups on the right, but

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Speaker 1: also I think of you as someone who should easily

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Speaker 1: be kind of accepted and admired even by you liberals, right.

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Speaker 1: Is that the case or am.

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Speaker 2: I totally well, I'm quite despised, I always say, by

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Speaker 2: the liberal establishment. It did come as a surprise to me.

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Speaker 2: I mean, in the beginning of my journalism career, I

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Speaker 2: never sought to be a so called like right wing

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Speaker 2: or conservative media type of person as I'm framed now.

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Speaker 2: But what I learned after one of the times that

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Speaker 2: I was beaten by anti fund two twenty nineteen is

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Speaker 2: that my reporting and my personal narrative about being victimized

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Speaker 2: is pretty powerful. And there were activists, left wing writers

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Speaker 2: who have a lot of sway, particularly on the online

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Speaker 2: liberal news publics machine sites, who were able to frame

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Speaker 2: me under a new narrative that I am not I'm

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Speaker 2: not legitimate because I am somehow right we far right.

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Speaker 2: They were accusing me of being accusing me of being provocateur,

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Speaker 2: and worse, some of them actually defained to me by

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Speaker 2: saying I had links in associations with violent forward extremists.

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Speaker 2: Those that type of false, those lies. Unfortunately I cited

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Speaker 2: in Google, in hit pieces and therefore on my Wikipedia.

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Speaker 2: So for the average person who doesn't who's not familiar

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Speaker 2: with my work, who looks me up on a search engine,

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Speaker 2: they see this type of stuff and they come up

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Speaker 2: come up with the perception that I am some type

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Speaker 2: of far art extremists.

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Speaker 1: Is that crazy to you?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Is that just because it is to me? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're so mild manner and you're clearly just reporting on these,

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Speaker 1: you know riots. I get again that the left hates you, obviously,

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Speaker 1: but why would kind of more normal liberals hate you?

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Speaker 1: What is the rationale there? Well, do you think their

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Speaker 1: side look bad?

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Speaker 2: Anything that is branded as a right wing or within

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Speaker 2: the magisphere is seen as a very toxic branding for liberals.

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Speaker 2: So regardless of whether one is actually associated with that,

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Speaker 2: as long as you are accused of being linked to that,

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Speaker 2: that is it's the easiest way to become persona and

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Speaker 2: on grata. With all that being said, you know, I

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Speaker 2: am very, very thankful that conservative media has given me

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Speaker 2: a platform to write in to speak. It was the

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Speaker 2: National Review back in twenty seventeen, when I was just

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Speaker 2: a student journalist at Roman State University that accepted one

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Speaker 2: of my opinion pieces and ran imprinted it when I

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Speaker 2: had no following to my name, the opinion section of

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Speaker 2: the Wall Street General, and then later on both the

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Speaker 2: news and the opinion section of New York Post, and

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Speaker 2: then of course many times I've been on Fort Snooze.

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Speaker 2: I'm indebted to all those conservative places. I don't denigrate

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Speaker 2: that these places happen to be right of center that

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Speaker 2: have given me an opportunity, because whilst the last that

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Speaker 2: shows into outright reject me from the get go on

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Speaker 2: lies based on how they perceived me to be associated,

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Speaker 2: it was the right that gave me a platform and voice.

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Speaker 1: Your book Unmasked, you follow what where in TIFA came

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Speaker 1: from and kind of how they ended up on our

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Speaker 1: streets causing this violence. Can you tell us about that?

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Speaker 2: So I'm from Portland to Oregon. It's where I grew up.

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Speaker 2: And Portland's reputation, the word weird, by the way, is

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Speaker 2: being used a lot by Democrats as a talking point

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Speaker 2: against Jadie Vownce and Trump and Republican voters generally right now.

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Speaker 2: But I mean a week ago, that was a word

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Speaker 2: that's actually embraced by a lot of so called progressives.

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Speaker 2: So Portland's unofficial slogan was keep Portland.

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Speaker 1: Weird, Step Portland Weird.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that Austin, Texas had a variation of

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Speaker 2: that as well, keep Austin weird. And so Portland was

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Speaker 2: for decades has been characterized by its progressive politics in culture,

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Speaker 2: and that had a lot of lovely things. You had

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Speaker 2: interesting people who are gravitated towards their artists, small business owners,

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Speaker 2: people who were very creative. And that was sort of

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Speaker 2: the environment I grew up in. And I was saying

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen that contexts took really disturbing in dark and

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Speaker 2: deadly turn when Portland, like many other left queen cities,

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Speaker 2: many of them on the left on the West Coast,

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Speaker 2: were responding to the rise of Donald Trump as he

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Speaker 2: became the nominee for the Republican Party in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: and then eventually want people rioted in the November twenty

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Speaker 2: sixteen election for days in Portland that at that time,

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Speaker 2: I was working as a student journalist for the Portland

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Speaker 2: State newspaper and I was assigned to go out and

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Speaker 2: get some video footage on my mobile phone. It's an

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Speaker 2: old iPhone, and it went out and I was really

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Speaker 2: shocked at what I was recording in that I saw

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Speaker 2: people addressed head to tone black, their faces covered. At

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Speaker 2: that time, it was unusual to mask up, and they

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Speaker 2: had crowbars and bats, and they were just smashing up

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Speaker 2: downtown and starting fires. I didn't know anything about what,

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Speaker 2: who and what those people were rioting before I remember

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Speaker 2: reading on the headlines the next day in the legacy

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Speaker 2: media that these were protesters who were frustrated in fear

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Speaker 2: of what a Trump administration could bring. And so immediately

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Speaker 2: I saw there's kind of a shift away from the

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Speaker 2: violent extremism that was on display, and I just kept

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Speaker 2: going out and continue to record many of these protests

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Speaker 2: for the next four years as they became entrenched and

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Speaker 2: became very, very violent and very quickly. One of the

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Speaker 2: I learned to those people in Black War because they

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Speaker 2: would show up with their banners and their logos and symbols,

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Speaker 2: and they described themselves as Rose City Antifa or Antifa

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Speaker 2: self described so called anti fascists.

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Speaker 1: It's not just an idea, it's not just ament.

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Speaker 2: It is an idea in part, but an idea that

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Speaker 2: can manifest in organized criminality. And that's exactly what happened.

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Speaker 2: And so in leading up to twenty twenty there was

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Speaker 2: all this build up of networks that were being built

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Speaker 2: regarding links to activists, attorneys, fundraising sources, groups ADOC, groups

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Speaker 2: that had social media accounts, and so after George Floyd died,

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Speaker 2: there was the groundwork had already been laid for activists

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Speaker 2: to immediately mobilize and carry out right months and months

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Speaker 2: of violence. So I went under cover in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: two to document a lot of that. But before that

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Speaker 2: I had been in the course of my reporting on

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Speaker 2: anti violently buttant. A lot of people first heard of

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Speaker 2: me in twenty nineteen because of these photos and videos

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Speaker 2: where I'm bloody and I'm drenched in the so called

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Speaker 2: milk shapes and I nearly died from that mall beauty.

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Speaker 2: But that's sort of like generally the kind of the

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Speaker 2: arc of my work in Portland. Eventually I had to

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Speaker 2: leave Portland permanently after a second attempt on my life

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one. So are you scared?

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Speaker 1: Are you today?

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Speaker 2: I am? Because I see what these people are capable

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Speaker 2: of doing. I think you and I and many of

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Speaker 2: the listeners and viewers are probably plugged into social media,

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Speaker 2: and if they see pictures of people arrested at these

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Speaker 2: antifra riots, they may come out with the incorrect perception

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Speaker 2: that they are not dangerous because the person is really

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Speaker 2: stick skinny, or they're super obese and they look like

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Speaker 2: just they.

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Speaker 1: Look like with abar with a prowbar. Anybody can be dangerous.

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Speaker 2: Exactly with uh yes, with the dangerous melee weapon, with firearms,

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Speaker 2: or working even as a group, just with their hands

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Speaker 2: and fists, as in the case of what happened to me,

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Speaker 2: it was people who are punching me in the face

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Speaker 2: and head in twenty nineteen, and you know, five people

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Speaker 2: punching you and kicking you in a period of fifteen

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Speaker 2: seconds is potentially deadly. I had a brain bleed. I

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Speaker 2: am fearful of them because they continue to send me

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Speaker 2: death threats. They showed up at my family's home. They're

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Speaker 2: very good at one aspect of their militancy is the

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Speaker 2: people who are showing up to fight on the streets.

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Speaker 2: To another, respect our people who work in activist legal groups,

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Speaker 2: and they have access to certain databases, for example, about

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Speaker 2: like property records, so they can look up, you know,

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Speaker 2: what addresses are registered to your property that maybe your

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Speaker 2: family owns, and they'll show up or they'll they'll put

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Speaker 2: that information online so that one of their comrades would

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Speaker 2: take action. So I've been victim of all of that,

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Speaker 2: and there's things that have happened to me that haven't

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Speaker 2: I haven't publicized for safety reasons, but you know, my

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Speaker 2: life has been really transformed by being under bread. I've

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Speaker 2: had to relocate out of the US actually, because I've

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Speaker 2: been recognized in cities outside of Portland, and so the

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Speaker 2: urban areas in America are exceptionally dangerous to me because

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Speaker 2: of the violent far Left.

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Speaker 1: Was anybody arrested for any of this great question?

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Speaker 2: I'm asked that all the time. So in the twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen beating, nobody was arrested. In the twenty twenty one beating,

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Speaker 2: nobody was arrested, and so I had to pursue a

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Speaker 2: civil claim against people that I was able to allegedly identify.

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Speaker 2: And last year there were two that went to trial

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Speaker 2: in Portland. I returned under a lot of threats and

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Speaker 2: the trial, which was seven days, was marred by all

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Speaker 2: these security incidents. The jurors were really afraid and they

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Speaker 2: requested a lot of security, and the judge actually stealed

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Speaker 2: the jury jury role to protect the identities of the jurist.

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Speaker 2: And ultimately the two that were on trial were found

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Speaker 2: not liable of allegations that I had against them. I

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Speaker 2: always knew it would be uphill battle in in Portland.

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Speaker 2: Now my account are going through the trying to seek justice.

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Speaker 2: But there were other people who I had a judgment

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Speaker 2: against in that scene, in that same case. But I

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Speaker 2: guess the bigger point is that in Portland, and I

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Speaker 2: would argue in other juristss like Seat Hole and in

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Speaker 2: Berkeley and San Francisco, if you are a victim of

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Speaker 2: lust wing political violence, it would be very very difficult

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Speaker 2: for you. No one cares yeah justice, yes, and even

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Speaker 2: law enforcement are afraid of showing up and responding to

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Speaker 2: the riot sustein carried out by far left extremes. So

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Speaker 2: I have a two.

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Speaker 1: Part question for you. First of all, when I you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously your family must be concerned about you. And like,

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Speaker 1: so when I write about like when I criticize, you know,

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden or Barack Obama back then or whatever, my

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Speaker 1: mom will say to me, like, can you not can

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Speaker 1: you not start fights with the president because I'm afraid,

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Speaker 1: I'm afraid of what's going to happen. She's from the

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Speaker 1: Soviet Union. She you know, she's afraid of a knock

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Speaker 1: on my door. And I say, no, I have to.

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Speaker 1: And then sort of my related question, so I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to ask you about what your family

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Speaker 1: thinks about it. But sort of related to this, I

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Speaker 1: had Jennifer say on and she took some real hit

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Speaker 1: to her reputation because she spoke out on issues that

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Speaker 1: she felt are important. And I had the Five for

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Speaker 1: Fighting singer John and Rassic and I had I asked

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Speaker 1: and he also he's a big pro Israel activist, for example,

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Speaker 1: so it costs them opportunities. And I've asked both of them,

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Speaker 1: why do you do it, and so for you it's

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Speaker 1: even more than just a hit to reputation. It's violence,

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Speaker 1: it's threat Why do it? So? What do you what

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Speaker 1: does your family think about it? And why do you

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Speaker 1: feel like you have to keep doing this even though

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Speaker 1: there's you know, threats and violence directed at you.

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Speaker 2: So my parents also escaped communism. My parents were refugees

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Speaker 2: from Socialists Republica Vietnam. They lived really the fall as

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Speaker 2: Igone in the reunification of North and South into one

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Speaker 2: communist state, and my father was to a prison labor camp.

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Speaker 2: My mother in her family recent as well, and in

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, they were part of the large diaspora

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Speaker 2: of both people refugees who fled on unworthy vessels buying

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Speaker 2: the ass to stray off to Southern Coasta the Vietnam

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Speaker 2: and they ended up in a refugee camp, several refugees camps,

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Speaker 2: eventually in Indonesia un camp where they applied for asylum

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Speaker 2: in Southminan the United States. I was born a number

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Speaker 2: of years after that.

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Speaker 1: But so they must be like we got you to safety,

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Speaker 1: Like why was to do this?

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Speaker 2: Andy? You know, so regarding you know what your mother

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Speaker 2: told you, My family has echoed similar sentiments and that

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Speaker 2: generally the first generation of East Asian immigrants in the

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Speaker 2: United States are are not too politically involved, in fact

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Speaker 2: tend to keep themselves. I don't want to rock the

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Speaker 2: boat on anything, but my answer is some litigo is

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Speaker 2: in that I have to in that when I was

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Speaker 2: what I was witnessing in the legacy media reporting in

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Speaker 2: going back to twenty sixteen about ANTUFA, so called ANTUFA

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Speaker 2: in the last so it's a lot of obfiscation or

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Speaker 2: synthesis for the violence that they were carrying out. And

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Speaker 2: I thought, look, you know, I can write articles that

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Speaker 2: is my subjective understanding of events that I witness on

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Speaker 2: the ground, but I think what would probably be more

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Speaker 2: powerful is if people were able to see the footage themselves.

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Speaker 2: So I made it a priority to go with my

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Speaker 2: camera with my mobile phone to record the footage. And

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Speaker 2: that's how that's how a lot of people first to

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Speaker 2: came away with me over the years, is that just

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Speaker 2: the videos I was putting out for free on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: just as a matter of informing the public. And then

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Speaker 2: sometimes I would write an article describing more in detail

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Speaker 2: about what's happening, and I had to do it because

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Speaker 2: nobody else is doing it. And yes, I was also

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Speaker 2: naive and that I didn't expect that I would nearly

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Speaker 2: die several times, which is all my work. I knew

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Speaker 2: I would be hated, et cetera, et cetera. I mean

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Speaker 2: I was treated as a persona on grata in Portland

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Speaker 2: and demonized the local press. So I was expecting that

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Speaker 2: in some ways, but I didn't expect that my life

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Speaker 2: would be on the line. If would I do some

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Speaker 2: things different? Looking back, yeah, and you know, when should

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Speaker 2: risk your life to get a video. I've had to

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Speaker 2: sacrifice a lot. I hope that sacrifice is worth it.

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Speaker 2: I sometimes encountered people who expressed gratitude that I did

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Speaker 2: what I did, and I'm really thankful for that, for

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Speaker 2: those type of comments, because you know, sometimes over the years,

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Speaker 2: I kind of I think back and I wonder how

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Speaker 2: effective I've been. You know, we opened this up talking

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Speaker 2: about how I've been treated by like liberal establishment, liberal media,

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Speaker 2: and I have been I'm seen as this really toxic,

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Speaker 2: dangerous person and it does make me sad because I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, the jurisdictions that can have that can make

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Speaker 2: have an effect on rooting out this organized political violence

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Speaker 2: that exystem the far left. It really that calls us

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Speaker 2: to really be taken up by democrats and liberals, and

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Speaker 2: for the most part, I would say that they've refused

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Speaker 2: eve acknowledge the product that's existed. And so I wonder,

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Speaker 2: you know, if I failed in my mission. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but I.

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Speaker 1: Totally I get that. I really like, especially during COVID,

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Speaker 1: I felt like I was shouting into the void. But

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Speaker 1: the people will come up to you and tell you

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Speaker 1: one of how much they appreciate you. You should focus

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Speaker 1: on them, because you are reaching people.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: I know sometimes it seems dark and that, you know,

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Speaker 1: what's the point? You know, I think you exposed a

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Speaker 1: lot of things that people didn't know, and you took

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Speaker 1: great risks, great personal risks, in order to make that happen.

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Speaker 1: I think you should be really proud of yourself, and

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Speaker 1: I hope your family is too. I know it's hard

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Speaker 1: with those ex communist families, you know, from the ex

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Speaker 1: ex communist countries. It's really tough to show them that

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Speaker 1: we have to take these chances here and we're here

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Speaker 1: specifically to be free and to be able to say

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Speaker 1: what we want. And you know, take the chances that we.

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Speaker 2: Need to take. Indeed, I worry though about places like

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Speaker 2: my home city here, Portland, in that for example, I

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Speaker 2: get invited to speaking in the UK and Europe now

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Speaker 2: about free speech related issues, and people here are understandably

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Speaker 2: very concerned about legislation, particularly like in our Inland and

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Speaker 2: other places where that would roll back, certain would criminalize

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Speaker 2: aspects of speech in a way that in the US

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Speaker 2: legislatively you couldn't because of the First Amendment, right, And

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Speaker 2: I like and I always tell them that, you know,

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Speaker 2: the legislative angles is important to discuss a lot, but

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Speaker 2: another thing is also free speech is a cultural norm, right,

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Speaker 2: and I feel that's often ignored. I think there are

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Speaker 2: places I can speak from experience, places like Portland, where

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Speaker 2: if you hold a political rally or attempt to, I

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Speaker 2: should say that somehow contravenes the political orthodoxy of Portland.

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Speaker 2: And I can name a couple type of events. You

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Speaker 2: will be subjected to violence, and you'll be subjected to

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Speaker 2: the violence over and over and over because please don't

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Speaker 2: show up. The media will ignore it, so you won't

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Speaker 2: even have the public outcry until you're subjected to violence

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Speaker 2: enough times that you just learned that you best not

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Speaker 2: speak out on those particular issues in this particular county

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Speaker 2: or city. So obviously any type of pro Trump organizing

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Speaker 2: patriotic pro Americas that you'll have anti fun people show

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Speaker 2: up with weapons. There are also women activists who visited

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Speaker 2: Portland to dry a campaign against radical trans ideology who

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Speaker 2: have this objected to violence like women being hid in

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Speaker 2: the face and police show up after all the assailants

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Speaker 2: have left. So people is just self censor and this

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Speaker 2: is all done without any type of change in legislation.

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Speaker 2: Not all.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right

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Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch show. You know, I like

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Speaker 1: to say that the gulags only existed for, you know,

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Speaker 1: only a short period of time in the Soviet Union.

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Speaker 1: The rest of the time, it was your neighbor policing

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Speaker 1: you and making sure that you're enthusiastically parroting the party line.

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Speaker 2: So I one thing that really was an eye opener

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Speaker 2: and disturbed me about the cultural change in America during

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Speaker 2: the COVID nineteen pandemic is that I so I have

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Speaker 2: a lot of family in Asia still, so they in

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Speaker 2: Asian countries, there was a first to lock down and

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Speaker 2: introduce really draconian laws, and so this this would have

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Speaker 2: been like in January twenty twenty. I was just thinking,

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Speaker 2: there's no way that even if freedom of movement was

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Speaker 2: curl tailed with ordinances at the local level, I was thinking,

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Speaker 2: there's no way Americans would be willing to like listen

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Speaker 2: to the government on that. We are so you know,

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Speaker 2: like on the left and the right, we do what

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Speaker 2: we want. It's about our own personal liberties. I was

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Speaker 2: actually really shocked and once like masking and all that

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Speaker 2: became introduced, and as sort of like a new no

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Speaker 2: one seeing the number of people like tattle telling on

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Speaker 2: their neighbors, calling the authorities as there was gathering their witness,

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Speaker 2: recording people on video, photographing them if they weren't masked,

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Speaker 2: I was I was whoa, like, yeah, that.

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Speaker 1: Was so common in my neighborhood in Brooklyn, extremely extremely common,

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Speaker 1: and people did that exactly all those things that you

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Speaker 1: describe all the time. It was shocking. It was shocking

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Speaker 1: and painful to see the country just not everywhere. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing. I think that those of us in

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Speaker 1: really blue places thought it was happening everywhere, and it

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Speaker 1: really really wasn't.

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Speaker 2: But we see now, you know, four years on from that,

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Speaker 2: places like New York and Portland. Whenever I'm back, I

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Speaker 2: see the number of people who are masked and still yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, okay, It's one thing if people in Jews

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Speaker 2: dress how they want, but the fact that there still

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Speaker 2: is this pressure of put on masking it. I've seen

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Speaker 2: sort of the culture around some of these protests that

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Speaker 2: have happened for Palestine or Pride events. Yeah, these instructions

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Speaker 2: about the pandemic is still happening. We need a mask

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Speaker 2: up and it's like, yeah, you know, so it's digging

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Speaker 2: at something deeper here. This is what this are people

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Speaker 2: who are who get a hile An ability to be authoritarian,

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Speaker 2: and that authoritarian is almost rechitimized by states, in media,

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Speaker 2: in pop culture.

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Speaker 1: So a question that I ask all of my guests

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Speaker 1: is what do you think is our largest cultural problem?

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Speaker 2: Great question me second to think about that. I would

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Speaker 2: say one of the biggest issues is legacy. Media, in

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Speaker 2: my opinion, by and large, is captured by woke ide

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Speaker 2: al cheat and so there are a lot of journalists

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Speaker 2: who are in the I guess, in the best of

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Speaker 2: circumstances in good faith, but they don't even realize the

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Speaker 2: bias that they have, and then it's reflected in the reporting.

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Speaker 2: And then of course you have those who are in

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Speaker 2: bad seats and that they're explicitly partisan and whatnot, and

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Speaker 2: they get to set a certain national narrative agenda. And

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Speaker 2: I really lament that for a lot of a lot

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Speaker 2: of the press, doesn't they're they're they're only interested in

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Speaker 2: half of the American audience being Democrat voters, I would argue.

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Speaker 2: And so when you have what are supposed to be

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Speaker 2: media institutions that are supposed to be independent and truth

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Speaker 2: seeking being very close with one particular political party and

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Speaker 2: often literally parroting talking points that are given to politicians,

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Speaker 2: that's really concerning for democracy. We are here all this

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Speaker 2: talk about threats to democracy, and a lot of those

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Speaker 2: who are eroding democratic culture and democratic norms are those

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Speaker 2: who are saying that others are a threat to it.

436
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 2: People don't realize.

437
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: That, Yeah, absolutely, do you when you look at your

438
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: work and you look at your life, do you feel

439
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: like you've made it? Do you still have al ways

440
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: to go? Or do you feel good about where you are?

441
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 2: You and I could both come from immigrant families, and

442
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: you know, I'm assuming this about you, but with East

443
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 2: Asian immigrant parents, you know you never quite make it.

444
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: You're never good enough in that you know that there

445
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: are some positives of being put under that type of pressure.

446
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,959
Speaker 1: For sure, I feel like you to apply that to

447
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: my own kids.

448
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: Sometimes Have I made it? I would say I never

449
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: thought that I would have an opportunity one day to

450
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: speak to somebody like you, for example, to give testimony

451
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 2: to the House of repercentages and to the Senate, and

452
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: to write a book that became a New York Times bestseller.

453
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 2: I was this person in Portland that nobody knew, who

454
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: was at Portland State University, which is not a competitive

455
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 2: university at all, from my graduate studies, and to see

456
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: that I was able to go from somebody who was

457
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: posting videos approachests from Portland to an audience of a

458
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: few hundred to one day having the audience that I

459
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 2: have now. I sometimes it still feels a bit surreal,

460
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: and I'm glad that it feels surreal for me, and

461
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 2: that you know, I'm sure you met I'm assuming you know.

462
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 2: I'm sure people who are in the public space you

463
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: meet people who who have ego. Other people who have

464
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: ego because they're they're public figures and they have the

465
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: big head of it. It's important for me to constantly

466
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 2: ground myself and remind myself that, you know, none of

467
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 2: this is like just like a given like. I work

468
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 2: very hard for my audience, but and I also have

469
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: to respect them and continually earn their trust. You know,

470
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: It's it's been. It's been difficult over the years, particularly

471
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: with you know, in news, it's very easy to get

472
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: out information that is inaccurate at that moment, or it

473
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: turns out to be inaccurate, I guess it, and then

474
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: having to own up to it and correct the record

475
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: and admit when you're wrong. You know, the times that

476
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: I've been wrong is very disappointing and embarrassed. But I

477
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: hold myself up to that standard. I hope that my

478
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: audience follows me, in part because they know that the

479
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: information I'm putting out is awkward.

480
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: You seem like a very grounded person, so I think

481
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: you're accomplishing that in a real way. I mean, it's been.

482
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: I've loved talking to you. This has been really, really great, Andy.

483
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: I've been a big fan of yours for a long time,

484
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: I always found you just very brave, but just a

485
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: great person and somebody who is doing really fantastic work.

486
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: So I have to say I think you're accomplishing what

487
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: you want to be accomplishing.

488
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Carol. That means a lot, and

489
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: feeling is mutual. I've read many, many of your columns,

490
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: read many of your posts on Twitter over years now

491
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: I think so much did incredible work, and I really.

492
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: Before the show began, I told Andy that I had

493
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: lived in Scotland and worked in their independence movement when

494
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: I was young and silly, and he still continued on

495
00:29:59,200 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: with the.

496
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: Interviews for listeners who aren't aware the independence movement in Scotland,

497
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 2: which is they want to break away from the United

498
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 2: Kingdom is in recent years has taken a turn towards woke, so.

499
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: Extremely are left.

500
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: It's said, yeah, it's very it's very bizarre phenomenon because

501
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: you have nationalism murder with woke, which are normally all

502
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: you know, not on the same sign. But for the

503
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: SNP Scoltish National Party, they have made it the same issue.

504
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing that nationalism is okay and that one

505
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: very narrow instance only because they have all the right positions. Well, Andy,

506
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: I've loved talking to you. Thank you so much for

507
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: coming on my show. The last question that I asked

508
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: my guests and I you know, you can take a

509
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: minute to think about it, but a tip for my

510
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: listeners on how they can improve their lives.

511
00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: I appreciate the question and the opportunity to answer that. Uh,

512
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 2: I would don't don't forget the humanity of the people

513
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: that seek to hurt you. I've been undercover in instances

514
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 2: where I've been able to be around people who they knew,

515
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: where it was, would kill me. And because I've been close,

516
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: I've been able to see a side of them that

517
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: they wouldn't show to outsiders and you. I try to

518
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: remind myself that behind their threats of violence, behind their

519
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: acts of violence and conduct, some of them, I've seen

520
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: our people who are really hurting a lot and have

521
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: been radicalized into political militancy because they've lost meaning and

522
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: purpose in their lives, and that they're still human and

523
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: they still have a hint.

524
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: You really are, You're too good. I mean seeing seeing

525
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: these people as human is is really just beyond kind

526
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: of you, especially when you know that they want to

527
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: hurt you. Right, You're far better person than I am.

528
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: Thank you for the question. He is. Andy.

529
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: Know his book is unmasked inside antifa's radical plan to

530
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: destroy democracy. Get the book. He is fantastic. Follow him

531
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: on all the platforms. Thanks so much for coming on, Andy,