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Speaker 1: Welcome to brain Stuff from How Stuff Works, Pay Brain

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Speaker 1: Stuff Lauren Vogel bamb here. Part of the gun control

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Speaker 1: debate in America centers on whether citizens should have the

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Speaker 1: right to use deadly force in self defense. Gun control

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Speaker 1: advocates say tighter gun restrictions would mean fewer deadly instants,

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Speaker 1: but gun rights advocates say tighter restrictions would lead to

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Speaker 1: more deaths because good Samaritans wouldn't be able to use

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Speaker 1: their own guns to stop attackers. It's an intense debate,

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Speaker 1: but today we're talking about the potential legal questions for

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Speaker 1: such hypothetical good Samaritan defendants. What's a good legal strategy

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Speaker 1: for showing that deadly force was necessary? And would that

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Speaker 1: defendant have to pay for a pile of legal bills

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Speaker 1: or face a possible stint in jail or worse. To

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Speaker 1: help answer those questions, there's now self defense insurance. Groups

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Speaker 1: like the National Rifle Association, the US Concealed Care Association,

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Speaker 1: the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, and US law Shield

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Speaker 1: all offer insurance policies that protect gun owners who discharge

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Speaker 1: their weapons in self defense. The n r A unveiled

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Speaker 1: its new insurance product, carry Guard, at its annual convention

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Speaker 1: in April of It offers four different levels of coverage,

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Speaker 1: including up to one point five million dollars for civil

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Speaker 1: protection and two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for criminal

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Speaker 1: defense costs. In some of these plans, the policies cover

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Speaker 1: the costs to a point of attorney's fees, bail bondsman

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Speaker 1: and even psychological help for just a few dollars a month.

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Speaker 1: The n r a's Carry Guard covers twenty percent of

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Speaker 1: legal costs upfront if a policy holder is charged, and

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Speaker 1: the outstanding eight percent is reimbursed up to the coverage limit,

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Speaker 1: but only if the defendant is acquitted or the charges

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Speaker 1: are dismissed. If they're found guilty, they're not eligible for

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Speaker 1: anything more than the original We spoke with Andrew Bronca,

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Speaker 1: an attorney who specializes in self defense law. He said,

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Speaker 1: generally speaking, when your conduct falls within the bounds of

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Speaker 1: self defense, when you abide by the rules as the

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Speaker 1: law sets them out, you have zero legal liability for

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Speaker 1: that use of force, either criminal or civil libity. Key here,

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Speaker 1: there are strict laws when it comes to self defense

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Speaker 1: that gun owners must adhere to, and more on that

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Speaker 1: in a minute. When someone chooses to discharge a weapon,

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Speaker 1: they may still have to hire lawyers and explain in

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Speaker 1: a court of law why they did so, and that

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Speaker 1: can get expensive, even if the judge of jury decides

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Speaker 1: that they did everything by the book. Of course, the

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Speaker 1: existence of self defense insurance is now part of the

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Speaker 1: gun controlled debate. Dr Mary Anne Frank's, a professor of

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Speaker 1: law at the University of Miami School of Law, is

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Speaker 1: against this type of insurance for many reasons. She wrote

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Speaker 1: via email, the vast majority of self defense situations are

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Speaker 1: best handled with situational awareness and non lethal force. This

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Speaker 1: kind of insurance not only normalizes the use of deadly force,

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Speaker 1: but promotes it. Peter Katchenberger, an insurance expert at the

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Speaker 1: University of Connecticut School of Law, told CBS News he

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Speaker 1: thinks these types of self defense policies could be beneficial

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Speaker 1: if they forced the gun control industry to study ways

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Speaker 1: to make gun ownership and storage safer, or if providers

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Speaker 1: like the n r A give dis counts on their

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Speaker 1: policies to gun owners for taking training and safety courses. Currently,

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Speaker 1: the n r A does not require policy holders to

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Speaker 1: take any courses before they can sign up for the

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Speaker 1: carry guard policy. It's hard to come by actual statistics,

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Speaker 1: but people evidently are buying these policies. The U s

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Speaker 1: c c A says that more than twenty five thousand

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Speaker 1: people have signed up for THEIRS, though we couldn't find

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Speaker 1: hard numbers on how many claims have been filed with

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Speaker 1: any of the companies that offer these policies, and despite

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Speaker 1: reaching out to the n r A and U s

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Speaker 1: c c A, neither replied to ourn multiple requests for comments.

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Speaker 1: So what are these rules of self defense? What's legal

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Speaker 1: and what isn't. The law in most places allows for

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Speaker 1: the defense of others, Branka explains, and despite their frequency,

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Speaker 1: there aren't many laws governing mass shootings, so many defensive

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Speaker 1: actions could be considered within legal bounds in those situations.

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Speaker 1: For people claiming self defense and situations where they are

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Speaker 1: personally threatened, things are a little bit clearer. Laws vary

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Speaker 1: from state to state, as do those who enforce the laws.

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Speaker 1: What seems an unlawful act to a prosecutor in Massachusetts

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Speaker 1: may not be to one in Texas, but generally most

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Speaker 1: states recognize a handful of conditions up to five that

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Speaker 1: must be met to conduct a successful defense of self defense. Innocence, eminence, proportionality, reasonableness,

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Speaker 1: and avoidance, respectively. You have to be the innocent party.

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Speaker 1: The threat can't be about something in the past or future.

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Speaker 1: It must be now. The amount of force you use

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Speaker 1: must match and not exceed the threat. Your conduct must

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Speaker 1: be reasonable to the point that a prudent person would

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Speaker 1: think it is reasonable. And in a number of states,

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Speaker 1: but not all, you have a duty to retreat to

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Speaker 1: avoid a deadly encounter, since most states do recognize self

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Speaker 1: defense as a defense for lethal force. Kristen Brown, the

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Speaker 1: co president of the pro gun Controlled Brady Campaign, thinks

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Speaker 1: that these policies are a bad idea. She said, why

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Speaker 1: would people need insurance for something that they are legally

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Speaker 1: entitled to. We should focus on solutions to those real

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Speaker 1: problems that impact far too many families, instead of emboldening

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Speaker 1: the George Zimmerman's of the world to shoot first and

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Speaker 1: ask questions later, which is exactly what this insurance will do.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe not, Bronco said, you could do everything legally

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Speaker 1: correctly and face a disaster in terms of finances and

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Speaker 1: emotional stress by the same token, just because you have,

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Speaker 1: say defense insurance. That's not to get out of jail

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Speaker 1: free card. If your use of force was unlawful, they

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Speaker 1: may pay your legal expenses put off to jail you

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Speaker 1: go nonetheless, today's episode was written by John Donovan and

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Speaker 1: produced by Tristan McNeil. For more on this and lots

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Speaker 1: of other current topics, visit our home planet, how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com