Speaker 1: So I just heard that Kelly Roland walked out of
Speaker 1: The Today Show when she was co hosting with Hodah
Speaker 1: because of the size of her dressing room. I was
Speaker 1: in the exact same position, co hosting the show with
Speaker 1: Hodah on The Today Show. And my hair and makeup
Speaker 1: touch up spot was a curtain just closing off a
Speaker 1: part of the lobby, and then my dressing room was
Speaker 1: the size of a closet. And you know what, I
Speaker 1: was so excited to be there. Who would have even thought.
Speaker 1: In fact, I have video of the dressing room because
Speaker 1: it was like a clown car and we were all
Speaker 1: trying to fit in there. And that was the day
Speaker 1: that my assistant forgot my dress and I had to
Speaker 1: wear a Today's Show bathing suit. You are so lucky
Speaker 1: to be invited to co host. It is like you
Speaker 1: jump up and down. You're so excited. I would get
Speaker 1: dressed in my car. It doesn't matter. And it's not
Speaker 1: fancy there. Even their makeup room is not fancy there.
Speaker 1: I have tons of video in their makeup room. It's
Speaker 1: like a news organization. You're not there for fluff and
Speaker 1: pomp and circumstance, and they buy their own clothes it's
Speaker 1: just not like Hollywood bullshit Diva.
Speaker 2: That's not what it is. It's an honor to co host.
Speaker 1: The Today Show. And if you have to sit in
Speaker 1: your car, you sit in your car. It's just not
Speaker 1: a Nicki Minaj moment. So when Travis Kelcey screamed Viva
Speaker 1: Las Vegas in that cave era holding a club loincloth,
Speaker 1: big fur vest pelt vibe, that gave like I just
Speaker 1: killed a buffalo with my bare hands and now I'm
Speaker 1: going to cook it on an open fire that I
Speaker 1: made with two stipped sticks that I rubbed together. When
Speaker 1: he did that, some people were shocked, and some people
Speaker 1: think that that must have turned off Taylor's swift. But
Speaker 1: this is a man who wore a black sequin leisure
Speaker 1: suit walking into the super Bowl, Like, this is a
Speaker 1: guy who is loud and proud, unapologetic, a human disco ball,
Speaker 1: a warrior, Winter is coming, Game of Thrones, not polished
Speaker 1: football playing animal. So there's no mystery here. He's got
Speaker 1: a giant beer, He's gargantuan in size. His mom is
Speaker 1: carrying pizza in ziploc bags because she's grabbing the bag
Speaker 1: with a ziplock. Deal with the ziplock wrap coming out
Speaker 1: of her purse, which I can literally tell you the
Speaker 1: name of the person who took that picture, because these
Speaker 1: are branded photographs and I've done them in the past
Speaker 1: where they'll be like, yeah, here, we just want you
Speaker 1: in this supermarket and you're just like holding the goat milk,
Speaker 1: but the goat milk container needs to be facing us
Speaker 1: and it needs to be like coming out of your bra.
Speaker 1: And you're like, I don't think that seems real, and
Speaker 1: they're just like, don't worry, because, like places like Us
Speaker 1: Weekly and in Touch, they just want to get the
Speaker 1: picture of the celebrity. And the only way that the
Speaker 1: photographer can get the picture of the celebrity is by
Speaker 1: having keefer slash goat milk coming out of your bra.
Speaker 2: So his mom is famous.
Speaker 1: Now she's Taylor Swift's bff, and so she's got ziplock
Speaker 1: coming out of her purse.
Speaker 2: And Ramona had chicken in her purse at the reunion.
Speaker 1: Why can't Travis Kelce's mom have ziplocks coming out of
Speaker 1: her purse?
Speaker 2: To be fair, there is no better storage. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm a pouch.
Speaker 1: Girl, so like Ziplock's a great storage pouch, Like you
Speaker 1: don't want to get the inside of your purse dirty,
Speaker 1: just put a ziplock in there and put your pen
Speaker 1: and your blush and your lip gloss. Like I'm not
Speaker 1: getting paid and I have ziplocks coming out of my purse.
Speaker 1: I never don't have zip blocks with me, So I
Speaker 1: used to store all my bathing suits and zip blocks like.
Speaker 1: I don't know what Travis Kelce's mom did, But I
Speaker 1: live in ziplock. My house is made of ziplock, so
Speaker 1: I deserve it. But Travis Kelsey's mom as a man
Speaker 1: who is barely walking upright as a son, So him
Speaker 1: screaming out Viva las Vegas in a Game of Thrones
Speaker 1: caveman club whole holding tone is not a surprise and shouldn't.
Speaker 2: Be getting anyone the ick.
Speaker 1: You gotta dance with the one who brung you, and
Speaker 1: like it or not, he brought her to the super
Speaker 1: Bowl this year. Where is the line with discussing women's appearances.
Speaker 1: Please help me, because Megan Fox is out looking different
Speaker 1: at the super Bowl and people are commenting on that
Speaker 1: she's a beautiful girl. It's presumably because she's so stunning,
Speaker 1: And where's these skin tight outfits and looks perfect and
Speaker 1: now she looks different. So is that a result of
Speaker 1: public scrutiny, self deprecation, being insecure?
Speaker 2: I guess it's just a conversation, but.
Speaker 1: It needs to be had very lightly because we shouldn't
Speaker 1: be talking about women's appearances. And the same goes for
Speaker 1: Amy Schumer, who's just out doing talk shows and has
Speaker 1: said she's experiencing a medical issue. I had that happen
Speaker 1: to me from pots where I was holding onto water
Speaker 1: and looked really swollen. But maybe she is having a
Speaker 1: medical issue.
Speaker 2: Does it matter.
Speaker 1: She's not pretending she's a supermodel. She's done the opposite
Speaker 1: in movies. She's a woman who is just living her
Speaker 1: life and won't always look the same. Can we not
Speaker 1: make her feel worse? Can we not pile on? Amy
Speaker 1: Schumer does enough self deprecating. We do not need to
Speaker 1: pile on. That's what I think. You know, we've talked
Speaker 1: about Jennifer Anison looking different in her recent season of
Speaker 1: the Morning Show because she's also an older woman, you know,
Speaker 1: like myself. She's older than when we watch reruns of
Speaker 1: her on Friends, and so maybe she's feeling a certain
Speaker 1: kind of way and maybe she wants to tweak. Nicole
Speaker 1: Kidman's gone through it, Meg Ryan's gone through it. You're
Speaker 1: a woman in Hollywood, You're heavily scrutinized. You're aging out
Speaker 1: in your mind. Although it's never been a better time
Speaker 1: to be a woman in your fifties, but you're aging
Speaker 1: out in your mind, and you kind of just want
Speaker 1: to keep up. And you're watching young women not only
Speaker 1: get roles but be relevant and look perfect. You're watching
Speaker 1: filtering too. If you're a woman in my generation or
Speaker 1: Amy Schumer's generation, you're probably not heavily editing and filtering
Speaker 1: because you just it's not who you are. And now
Speaker 1: you're competing with people who do heavily filter, who are
Speaker 1: thirty years younger than you, not just for roles, but
Speaker 1: just for relevance, attention deals.
Speaker 2: Skincare I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying like, we have to be a little
Speaker 1: more delicate, and we just don't need to be criticizing
Speaker 1: women like Amy Schumer or Megan Fox or Jennifer Aniston
Speaker 1: about their appearance. We have to be very cognizant of
Speaker 1: how we discuss what we want to do and what
Speaker 1: we like and what we don't like and what we
Speaker 1: think is okay, and what we don't think is okay.
Speaker 2: I've been guilty of it.
Speaker 1: I've talked about Kim Kardashian removing a clavigal and a
Speaker 1: post and losing drastic amounts of weight for the Mech
Speaker 1: Gala as a mother of a teen. But I certainly
Speaker 1: do not think that Amy Schumer has done anything that
Speaker 1: deserves any kind of criticism. And frankly, I don't know
Speaker 1: if Megan Fox has either. She was in a relationship,
Speaker 1: she posts skimpy outfit, she looks hot, she's an actress,
Speaker 1: and she seems to be minding her own business. Jennifer
Speaker 1: Aniston also, she's just probably just trying to survive in
Speaker 1: a very very severely critical industry and world because social
Speaker 1: media is everywhere.
Speaker 3: So let's give him a break.
Speaker 1: So Wendy Williams is going to be on the cover
Speaker 1: of People magazine and what a rise and what a fall?
Speaker 1: I definitely have an opinion because I've met Wendy several times.
Speaker 2: I've been on the show.
Speaker 1: And I also have been in the talk show space
Speaker 1: in the same group that produced her talk show, that
Speaker 1: syndicated her talk show. So I first met Wendy years ago.
Speaker 1: When I did her show, and then she was friends
Speaker 1: with Nini. They had some sort of a falling out,
Speaker 1: but one time she just like called me out of
Speaker 1: the blue with Nini on the phone and just like
Speaker 1: was like, I'm sorry, I've said so many things about you,
Speaker 1: but let's get together or come on the show or
Speaker 1: just something that was jarring.
Speaker 2: And I know they don't speak anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the falling out was, but they
Speaker 1: were close, and Wendy got popular because of these hot topics,
Speaker 1: and she was very disruptive. She came off the radio
Speaker 1: and she was loved and she was successful. And what
Speaker 1: was told to me from behind the scenes when I
Speaker 1: used to visit the show was that her husband kind
Speaker 1: of ran the show and he controlled the program.
Speaker 2: And I didn't know he was partners on it.
Speaker 1: I didn't know he was making money off of it,
Speaker 1: but I knew that like he was running the program.
Speaker 2: I knew that.
Speaker 1: I was told that, and there was something definitely dark
Speaker 1: in the underbelly over there. I distinctly remember this. And
Speaker 1: you'd go on her show sometimes. Then it got to
Speaker 1: the point where you would never do her show. I
Speaker 1: was advised never to do her show, even if it
Speaker 1: was the most like sort of charming ask and they
Speaker 1: want to bury the hatchet and what because you'd go
Speaker 1: on and it would be you know, kind of gotcha,
Speaker 1: which was fine, But the problem was when you weren't on,
Speaker 1: she'd be just talking badly about you when you weren't there,
Speaker 1: or you know, to the audience or putting on clips,
Speaker 1: and you just always felt kind of exposed.
Speaker 2: It was really like tabloid talk show.
Speaker 1: And I always wondered how she got people to even
Speaker 1: do it because it was super nasty.
Speaker 2: Like, as a.
Speaker 1: Host of this podcast, I really want to protect the guest.
Speaker 1: I mean I really want someone not only while they're
Speaker 1: on to feel good, but later on not to be
Speaker 1: churned and burned through the media. It's why I get
Speaker 1: such amazing guests, because people know that I'm polarizing and
Speaker 1: can be disruptive.
Speaker 2: But there's a safe space. You know.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're Matthew McConaughey, Hillary Clinton, or
Speaker 1: Rachel or Nini, who can all be controversial. It just
Speaker 1: means it's a safe space. Doesn't mean I agree with everything,
Speaker 1: It just means that you're not going to kind of
Speaker 1: like be churned through some pr machine in the name
Speaker 1: of me while to get clickbait but.
Speaker 2: Throw people out.
Speaker 1: So Wendy was really tricky, and I was really often advised,
Speaker 1: even when it would be tempting to just not do
Speaker 1: her show. When you're first coming up and you're not
Speaker 1: as successful and you can't make any choices and you
Speaker 1: just do whatever your take given. Then I used to
Speaker 1: do it, but once I became more successful, I just
Speaker 1: there was no upside to doing it. She really would
Speaker 1: have no problem just trashing anybody in the name of ratings,
Speaker 1: and it worked and.
Speaker 2: She got guests.
Speaker 1: But I will say this, a talk show is made
Speaker 1: to look easy and it's brutal. And the money once
Speaker 1: you get to her level, or Rachel Ray or Ellen
Speaker 1: or someone else, like it's so intoxicating because you've learned
Speaker 1: to live this lavish Rolls Royce lifestyle. Ellen's flipping multiple houses.
Speaker 1: Wendy's got Rolls voices and supporting her her husband and
Speaker 1: all this stuff, and like it gets tempting for those
Speaker 1: people and they kind of can't get out and they're
Speaker 1: spending so much that they have to go back the
Speaker 1: next year because how you're not going to make between
Speaker 1: five and thirty million dollars and just take it. It's like,
Speaker 1: wasn't that much, But that's why people stay on the Housewives.
Speaker 1: And I left because there was no number for my sanity.
Speaker 1: And I say that because there was a number for
Speaker 1: Wendy's sanity, because I think that talk show combined with
Speaker 1: her marriage and the pressure. You get in in the
Speaker 1: morning and you have a pit crew on you seven
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, and there's a pit crew on
Speaker 1: your body literally like tweaking and tucking and it, and
Speaker 1: all the different stations because she's not on one network.
Speaker 1: She's syndicated, which is where you make more money, but
Speaker 1: where you have more opinions. So all the people on
Speaker 1: all the different stations that she's servicing around the country,
Speaker 1: they all have an opinion. Don't tell her not to
Speaker 1: wear a hemline that short, or tell her that lipstick
Speaker 1: was too bright, or don't say this, or don't do that.
Speaker 1: And you're like kind of stifled because you can't just
Speaker 1: make a move and everyone's deciding what guests to book
Speaker 1: based on what did well yesterday, so you can't kind
Speaker 1: of have your own original thought of what you want
Speaker 1: to do. You move in there and you think I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do a show and it's to be about this,
Speaker 1: and I want to talk about that, but everybody else
Speaker 1: is in your ear telling you what the show has
Speaker 1: to be about. So her hot topics work, so she
Speaker 1: has to trash people. Now she's on a treadmill. And
Speaker 1: every day you go in and nobody wants to hear
Speaker 1: you're in a bad mood, because no one wants to
Speaker 1: hear famous, rich people talk about being in a bad
Speaker 1: mood or they had a bad day. So you have
Speaker 1: to be cheery and happy every day. You're also directing traffic.
Speaker 1: When we come back up next, Chlorox is here. You're
Speaker 1: constantly on a loop and you're just being moved and
Speaker 1: shuffled and handed things. And from the minute you get in,
Speaker 1: someone is doing your hem, linking you off, asking you
Speaker 1: what you want to have for lunch. Five people with
Speaker 1: clipboards are coming in and out telling you who's coming
Speaker 1: on today. You're exhausted, you might not have slept, you
Speaker 1: got in so early, you may have to do two shows.
Speaker 1: It is a fucking grind. I despised it. I hated it.
Speaker 1: I hated myself for hating it because I knew all
Speaker 1: these people were working there and they wanted the gig
Speaker 1: and wanted it to go on. It was so disingenuous.
Speaker 1: It is such a nightmare to make it look easy
Speaker 1: and to make you look happy. Behind the scenes, what's
Speaker 1: going on is torture. And I know she probably experienced
Speaker 1: some mental health issues. I don't know how those all converge.
Speaker 1: I obviously I'm an expert on this, and she was
Speaker 1: terrible and said terrible things about me. But it's a
Speaker 1: job for a person that's not very happy, like but
Speaker 1: you come in happy and you leave a wreck like.
Speaker 1: Honestly speaking, Ellen came out and said every day to
Speaker 1: be kind to each other. That was the audience she
Speaker 1: was talking to, Like, she couldn't come out and be
Speaker 1: grouchy or be miserable or vent. So you're just stuffing
Speaker 1: it all down and have to look so cheery every
Speaker 1: day because you're talking, you know, to America. You're giving
Speaker 1: giant checks that are you know, you're giving out all
Speaker 1: these gifts pretending it's you giving them out. You're not
Speaker 1: giving them out. Some sponsors giving them out. But you
Speaker 1: get to be Ellen and ath like you you know,
Speaker 1: I'm giving you the twelve Days of Christmas or Oprah
Speaker 1: and you get a car, and you get a car,
Speaker 1: they're not paying for that. It's just an acting gig
Speaker 1: that's like so intense and so brutal, and think about
Speaker 1: my personality. And that's why I despised it, because it
Speaker 1: was like having a noose around your neck of who
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be and what you're supposed to say
Speaker 1: and how you're supposed to feel and how you're supposed
Speaker 1: to portray and what you're supposed to wear and what
Speaker 1: sponsor you have to mention. And it's a grind. It's
Speaker 1: not free, it's not natural, it's not normal. And that's
Speaker 1: definitely something that contributed to Wendy's demise. I'm sure she
Speaker 1: loved it when she was on the radio being free
Speaker 1: and who she could really be. In in the beginning,
Speaker 1: it's a great novelty, but after years of having everyone
Speaker 1: up your ass, grinding you and torturing you and pressuring you,
Speaker 1: you're fucking gonna blow.
Speaker 2: It happens to everyone, that's the truth.
Speaker 1: And I legitimately do not know anything specific about what's
Speaker 1: going on with Wendy, just what I've read, and she's
Speaker 1: acutely aware of how she's being portrayed and probably goes
Speaker 1: in and out of these different sort of states of mind.
Speaker 1: But I don't know that the pressure of what the
Speaker 1: entertainment industry can do to some people, not just because
Speaker 1: we're complaining, you know, Wendy's complaining about being famous or successful.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, when you've got everyone's opinion weighing on
Speaker 1: what you look like, what you say, and you've got fame,
Speaker 1: and you've got scrutiny, and you've got money, and you've
Speaker 1: got the pressure, and you've got a whole entire crew
Speaker 1: and all of this, it's just going to be a
Speaker 1: pressure cooker and the top is going to fly off.
Speaker 2: And that's what seems like what happened with her. It
Speaker 2: could be totally wrong.
Speaker 1: It could be that it's all just mental health and
Speaker 1: she was predisposed to this, but having seen her in
Speaker 1: action with her husband, who everyone said was like a
Speaker 1: tyrant controller all of this.
Speaker 2: It sounds like a nightmare.
Speaker 1: And I honestly have compassion for her and I feel
Speaker 1: for her, and I am you're listening to someone talk
Speaker 1: about her that she trashed, and that has to eat
Speaker 1: away at you too. You can't be very happy if
Speaker 1: you're constantly trashing. You just can't You can't be living
Speaker 1: a very happy true life if every day you're going
Speaker 1: to just regurgitate and churn out headlines and turn them
Speaker 1: into a negative opinion and gossip about people like really
Speaker 1: just reducing their difficult divorces, infidelity, their lives, their careers,
Speaker 1: their mistakes into an anecdotal, snarky hot topic segment.
Speaker 2: You just can't be happy.
Speaker 1: So she had to be miserable for a long time
Speaker 1: to talk so badly about so many people.
Speaker 2: It happens to the best of us.