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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Post Friend.

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Speaker 2: Hi. Today's episode feels really special because it's with someone

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Speaker 2: who has been one of my biggest inspirations in this industry,

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Speaker 2: Lucy Fink. Lucy was actually the very first creator I

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Speaker 2: ever followed. Back when I was in college. I was

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Speaker 2: totally obsessed with her show Try Living with Lucy, and

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Speaker 2: I always admired how positive, creative, and relatable she was

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Speaker 2: and what an incredibly talented storyteller she is. In this episode,

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Speaker 2: we really got to know Lucy her journey from starting

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Speaker 2: out in advertising to becoming a creator at Refinery twenty

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Speaker 2: nine and eventually building.

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Speaker 1: Her own brand.

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Speaker 2: And Lucy's path felt especially full circle for me because

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Speaker 2: I also started my career working at an advertising agency.

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Speaker 2: So I think you guys will hear just how much

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Speaker 2: we related in this conversation. Lucy has so much knowledge

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Speaker 2: and wisdom to share or from navigating the highs and

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Speaker 2: lows of building a career in the creator space to

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Speaker 2: being so open about her personal life. She is truly

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Speaker 2: one of the most genuine people I have ever met,

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Speaker 2: and I cannot wait for you guys to.

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Speaker 1: Take it all in.

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Speaker 2: Before we jump in, I just want to say I

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Speaker 2: love hearing your ideas for the show, so please follow

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Speaker 2: me on Instagram at Kate Max and send me a

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Speaker 2: DM with your dream guest picks for the show. All right,

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Speaker 2: let's get into today's episode with Lucy Fink. Lucy Fink,

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Speaker 2: welcome to post run high.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. I actually am like starting to feel the high.

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Speaker 1: Are you okay?

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Speaker 3: Great?

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Speaker 1: Well, we just ran a mile. How are you feeling

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Speaker 1: it's hitting?

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Speaker 3: As I said in the run, you know, I don't

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Speaker 3: think I've run a full mile since the mile run

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Speaker 3: in high school. I'm so not a runner. I'm very

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Speaker 3: not into cardio. But it did feel good and I'm

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Speaker 3: starting to zing. Oh, I feel maybe a good choice.

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Speaker 1: Host rind zing.

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Speaker 3: I love that I have a new podcast name for you.

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to have you here.

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Speaker 2: We'll get to why I am such a big fan

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Speaker 2: of you, but first I just want to say.

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Speaker 1: You're a mom of two.

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Speaker 2: You have a nine month old at home and a

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Speaker 2: three year old, and you're also a businesswoman. You run

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Speaker 2: your own company. You've got so much going on. What

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Speaker 2: does movement look like in your life right now?

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Speaker 3: Honestly, if I didn't do any form of structured working out,

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Speaker 3: I'm getting enough movement in the day because just moving around,

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Speaker 3: like from the moment I wake up to when my

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Speaker 3: toddler goes off to school or now camp, it is

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Speaker 3: a marathon. Changing my nine and a half month old's

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Speaker 3: diaper is becoming so hard, she's like flipping and navigating

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Speaker 3: and it's like an Olympic sport to pinner down and

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Speaker 3: change the diaper. And then now living in the suburbs,

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Speaker 3: we have a staircase, so I'm going up and down

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Speaker 3: all day. I have a garden outside, so I'm going

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Speaker 3: in and out, and then there's just like a lot

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Speaker 3: more walking and movement happening in my day to day life.

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Speaker 3: So I don't feel any lack of movement. But I

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Speaker 3: do have a virtual trainer who I work with two

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Speaker 3: times a week and we just do body weight stuff,

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Speaker 3: just an hour of like Monday will lower body, Friday

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Speaker 3: will the upper body, and just mixing it up and

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Speaker 3: doing some easy weight stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think people underestimate how heavy babies are, and

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Speaker 2: like it really is a lot of work, even just

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Speaker 2: like lifting them up throughout the day and bringing them around.

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Speaker 2: Not that I know from personal experience of having a kid,

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Speaker 2: but from holding friends.

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Speaker 1: Kids and yeah, family friend's kids. I'm like, damn, this

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Speaker 1: is kind of a kind of And it always got.

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Speaker 3: Much easier with the toddler because there's just so much

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Speaker 3: that you're doing for them, like getting him dressed, bending

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Speaker 3: down to put the shoes on, bending down to get

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Speaker 3: his cup and bowl to serve him breakfast. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I try to make him do as much as he can.

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Speaker 3: I try to have this motto of I'm not doing

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Speaker 3: anything for you that you can do for yourself, although

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Speaker 3: it doesn't actually work because.

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Speaker 1: Milo is being treated like a full on adult. Isn't

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Speaker 1: that funny?

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Speaker 2: How Like my mom always says when you your first

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Speaker 2: kid very quickly becomes like an adult. As soon as

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Speaker 2: you have another kid, it's like they seem so much older,

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Speaker 2: so much more mature.

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Speaker 3: He seems like ten. But yeah, the truth is it's

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Speaker 3: not really functional to let him do that, because if

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Speaker 3: I was like, you can brush your teeth, you do it,

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Speaker 3: he would just stick the toothbrush in his mouth and

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Speaker 3: let it sit still. And I'm like grabbing his face

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Speaker 3: and scrubbing. So I do need to do things for him.

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Speaker 3: It's a workout, and like the whole nighttime routine, doing

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Speaker 3: the bath time and the chasing the round, putting pajamas on, reading, running,

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Speaker 3: playing It's it's a sport.

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Speaker 2: Well. During the run, you also talked about how after

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Speaker 2: having Mi low you leaned into weightlifting. Let's touch a

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Speaker 2: little bit on leaning into weightlifting, why and kind of

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Speaker 2: what it did for you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I was feeling super depleted after nursing him for

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Speaker 3: nine months. I was at my physical lowest weight, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was going through hair loss. I felt like all

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Speaker 3: my nutrients were coming out and going into him, which

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Speaker 3: was great for him. He was like this big, chunky,

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Speaker 3: plump baby, and I was like withering away. I eventually

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Speaker 3: was like I have to stop nursing, partially because of that,

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Speaker 3: partially because he had teeth and was biting and pulling

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Speaker 3: and that's not fun. And I was like, I need

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Speaker 3: to start doing some sort of workout that's gonna build

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Speaker 3: muscle and make me feel physically adept at the things

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Speaker 3: I want to do. I had this trainer who I

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Speaker 3: had worked with in the city, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: had moved to the suburbs relatively recently, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to still work with you virtually for me

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Speaker 3: if I don't have a trainer or someone who I'm

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Speaker 3: showing up to be with. I just won't show up,

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Speaker 3: Like I won't show up for myself. I probably won't

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Speaker 3: show up with a friend. I need someone who I'm paying,

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Speaker 3: who's like, I'm here for our sessions, and you paid

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Speaker 3: for this, so you need to come. And working out

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Speaker 3: was just not a part of my upbringing. It wasn't

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Speaker 3: something I did in high school or college, so I

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Speaker 3: really only got into it once I started making money

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Speaker 3: and spending it on it, and I just started doing

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Speaker 3: the basic weight training activities, Like a lot of it

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Speaker 3: is body weights. Otherwise I'm using those handheld ten pound

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Speaker 3: weights and we're just doing like a lot of squatting,

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Speaker 3: arm stuff, bicep thing. I don't even know how to

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Speaker 3: describe it. I'm so not in the workout world, but

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Speaker 3: it makes me feel strong, and when I miss a

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Speaker 3: day of it or a week of it, I can

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Speaker 3: tell because the next workout is so much harder.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I love holding myself accountable by paying for

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Speaker 2: a workout.

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Speaker 1: That's so funny. I'm literally what you said. I probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't show it for a friend.

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Speaker 2: I'm picturing you in the city, like your friend being like, Lucy,

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Speaker 2: are you coming, And she's like on the West Side

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Speaker 2: Highway waiting for you, and You're like.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about that.

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Speaker 1: It's just like so funny.

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Speaker 2: I wish.

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Speaker 3: I've always wished that working out is fun for me,

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Speaker 3: But when I go, if I go to a class,

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Speaker 3: like those spin classes used to just be miserable experiences

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Speaker 3: for me. And the only classes I really loved when

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Speaker 3: I was in the city were yoga classes, but mostly

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Speaker 3: when we leaned into the restorative flows, not really the hot,

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Speaker 3: steamy yoga. If I ever did that, I just I

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Speaker 3: don't know why. My body like shuts down and I

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Speaker 3: feel like I'm gonna faint. If I'm you saw me running,

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Speaker 3: I'm like jrudging along, I'm sweating, I get a stitch

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Speaker 3: very quickly. So I try to lean into the workouts

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Speaker 3: that are more functional movement focused, so that they're helping

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Speaker 3: me with the actual movements I'm doing in my life

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Speaker 3: and not just burning calories.

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Speaker 2: This show is all about movement, but not just physically.

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Speaker 2: We love showcasing people that show how movement, whether it

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Speaker 2: be physical, emotional, or mental, is so instrumental in leading

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Speaker 2: like a successful life and like the power of people

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Speaker 2: that just keep on moving and keep on going and

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Speaker 2: kind of the success that that breeds, and you are

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Speaker 2: such a great example of that, and on the show,

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Speaker 2: I love just getting to know people's stories and learning

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Speaker 2: a little bit about the human behind the content and

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Speaker 2: just a little bit of background. But I have been

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Speaker 2: following Lucy since I was eighteen years old freshman in

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Speaker 2: college and I always loved your Try Living with Lucy

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Speaker 2: and Lucy for Higher Content series And I actually have

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Speaker 2: a funny story, but one of my core memories is

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Speaker 2: I DMD you and I remember being like, I just

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Speaker 2: want to do her and see if she'd be open

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Speaker 2: to like an informational call. And I was like an

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Speaker 2: intern working at a marketing company and I remember dming

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Speaker 2: you and being like, she is never going to respond,

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Speaker 2: and basically I just wanted to find out what it

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Speaker 2: was like working in social media because I had a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a video editing background, and I dmd

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Speaker 2: you thinking you would never respond, and then you answered,

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Speaker 2: and I remember like screaming and being like, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: And then I never responded because I was like, wait,

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Speaker 2: she actually can We'll get on a phone call with me,

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Speaker 2: Like this is crazy.

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Speaker 3: I was going to say, I don't remember talking to you.

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Speaker 1: And it was funny.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to find because that account is no

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Speaker 2: longer the account that is like the Kate Max account,

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Speaker 2: and I was trying to find the message that I

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Speaker 2: can read it to you, and I just can't find it.

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Speaker 3: And I deleted it. You were so alarmed.

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Speaker 1: I probably did. I probably unsent it immediately.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's so funny. Well, the truth is I got

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Speaker 3: a lot of messages like that back in the day.

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Speaker 3: Still do. Honestly, these days, I'm a little bit less

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Speaker 3: accessible to just hop on a call with anyone now

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Speaker 3: with my life being busier, you know, a mom. But

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Speaker 3: back in my refinery days, I loved the idea that

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Speaker 3: I was going to be able to answer people's DMS,

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Speaker 3: and I really prided myself on responding to people. Times

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Speaker 3: have changed, and I've actually made it now so that

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Speaker 3: people can't respond to my stories unless I'm following them back.

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Speaker 3: And I just had to do that for my own sanity,

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Speaker 3: because people were responding to every single thing I posted.

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Speaker 3: It was not only like the standard positive or negative responses,

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Speaker 3: but there were questions that I felt the need to

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Speaker 3: answer every single like I joke that I would literally

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Speaker 3: post a photo of a white wall and questions would

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Speaker 3: come in of what color is the paint on that wall?

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Speaker 3: And I would have I would feel the need to respond,

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Speaker 3: and I would spend so much of my free time.

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Speaker 3: Anytime I sat down on the toilet, I was like,

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Speaker 3: let me answer DMS now, And it was eating up

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Speaker 3: my life, and so I for my you know, someone

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Speaker 3: else maybe would have just been like, I'm just going

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Speaker 3: to stop and let them pile up, but having an

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Speaker 3: inbox of twenty thousand was so stressful to me, so

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Speaker 3: I turned it off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that comes with time. Like I

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Speaker 1: think when I had.

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Speaker 2: First reached out to you, you were at the beginning

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Speaker 2: of your career at Refinery, and we're going to get

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Speaker 2: to everything that you were doing at Refinery twenty nine.

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Speaker 2: I think it's like whenever any creator starts out online,

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Speaker 2: Like I remember, I used to respond to every single

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Speaker 2: message I got as well, and now it's and then

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Speaker 2: you and then you literally just don't have the time

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Speaker 2: to and you physically can't. But yeah, I appreciate it

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Speaker 2: with every DM that weekend, and it's amazing to have

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Speaker 2: people that want to know, like color white, and it's.

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Speaker 3: So fun for people to I mean, I'm speaking for myself,

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Speaker 3: but it's fun for me to talk to young in

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Speaker 3: aspiring creators or people who want to do something similar.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I have so much info and insight

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Speaker 3: to give them, and I want to have that connection

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Speaker 3: with them. It's just at a certain point, there's not

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Speaker 3: enough time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, well, it's so full circle though, for us to

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Speaker 2: be sitting down here right now.

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Speaker 1: Guys. Now, I have Losey on my show What the

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Speaker 1: heck did?

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Speaker 2: I didn't have the confidence to get on a phone

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Speaker 2: call with her then, but she's here now.

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Speaker 3: Sto. I love studio.

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Speaker 2: But let's walk it back. So you grew up in Westchester.

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Speaker 2: You went to Scarsdale High School. Shout out, scars Out Scarsdale.

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Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about growing up in Scarsdale

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Speaker 2: and what young Lucy was like.

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Speaker 3: Scarsdale is a very affluent town. I was surrounded by

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Speaker 3: people whose parents were doctors and in finance and lawyers.

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Speaker 3: My dad is a radio host, so I always came

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Speaker 3: from this media music background. I didn't personally have an

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Speaker 3: interest in going into the music space, but I grew

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Speaker 3: up going to the station with him. Sometimes I would

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Speaker 3: record PSA spots or ads and would go to shows

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Speaker 3: that he was MCing and I got to see up

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Speaker 3: close him interviewing and met a lot of celebrities when

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Speaker 3: I was young, and my mom's an interior designer. She

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Speaker 3: was a stay at home mom our whole life. I

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Speaker 3: grew up. I have an older brother twin sister, and

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Speaker 3: we grew up in a home where we really weren't

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Speaker 3: being pushed to go down those traditional paths. I actually

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Speaker 3: wanted to be a doctor on my own.

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Speaker 1: Accord.

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Speaker 3: I discovered TLC's a surgery story at a young age.

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Speaker 3: I used to go on YouTube and type in live

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Speaker 3: C section birth and just like watch the blood spew

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Speaker 3: on my own and I love that. And I always

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Speaker 3: thought I wanted to be a surgeon. I was in

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Speaker 3: love with Sanje Gupta when I was young, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, I want to be a brain surgeon on TV.

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Speaker 3: This is I think. I always also knew I liked

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Speaker 3: the media side, but totally wanted to be a doctor. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I was like, does Johns Hopkins have this major? I

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Speaker 3: did go to Johns Hopkins, and part of that was

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Speaker 3: because I wanted to be a doctor. Sorry to backtrack.

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Speaker 3: Also was the president of the drama club in Scarza

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Speaker 3: High School. So had these two competing or conflicting interests.

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Speaker 3: Do I want to be a doctor or do I

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Speaker 3: want to go into media, And I sort of left

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Speaker 3: it to fate. I was like, we'll see where I

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Speaker 3: get into college, We'll see what programs they have. And

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Speaker 3: getting accepted to Johns Hopkins and just loving the school,

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Speaker 3: I was like, this is obviously a medical university. So

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Speaker 3: I went there with the intention of studying neuroscience. I

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Speaker 3: was a pre med, you know, neuroscience major. As a freshman,

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Speaker 3: went in started taking all the classes to be pre med,

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Speaker 3: and also simultaneously went into the admissions office my freshman

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Speaker 3: year and pitched a YouTube series and was like, I

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Speaker 3: would love to host this travel channel style show about

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Speaker 3: the city of Baltimore and show prospective students how cool

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Speaker 3: the city is. And so I was always doing the

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Speaker 3: two things. And then it wasn't until kind of mid

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Speaker 3: freshman year I was like, I'm really loving and enjoying

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Speaker 3: these neuroscience classes, but I'm starting to see what my

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Speaker 3: life will be like and what my future will look

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Speaker 3: like if I go down the medical route. And I

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Speaker 3: just don't think I'm destined for a lifestyle stuck a

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Speaker 3: in a hospital or like inside, but also schooling for

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Speaker 3: ten more years. I was like, I just want to

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Speaker 3: get into the world, and I just want to start

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Speaker 3: doing things and stuff I was doing extracurricularly for Johns

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Speaker 3: Hopkins became my true love. I was like, making these

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Speaker 3: YouTube videos and running around the city meeting people and

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Speaker 3: putting these stories together is truly what I want to

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Speaker 3: be doing full time. Hopkins did not have any sort

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Speaker 3: of broadcast journalism major, so I couldn't go down that route. Also,

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Speaker 3: I didn't really want to be broadcast journalism. I always

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Speaker 3: knew I wanted to be doing lifestyle video content like

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Speaker 3: what I'm doing now, but that just wasn't a thing

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Speaker 3: in twenty fourteen when I graduated. So my first job

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Speaker 3: out of school wound up being at Ogilvie and Masor

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Speaker 3: in advertising, and I was like, I'm just going to

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Speaker 3: go down the production route. I'm going to throw out

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Speaker 3: for now my dreams of being on camera because I

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Speaker 3: don't exactly know how to get to the on camera

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Speaker 3: role I want to be in. I don't want to

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Speaker 3: host the news and be like reporting in front of

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Speaker 3: a burning building. And I also don't want to host

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Speaker 3: e news and be on the red carpet. I don't

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Speaker 3: know anything about celebrities, so I was like, I just

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Speaker 3: think I need to go down the creative production route

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Speaker 3: and see what happens. And I had an incredible experience

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Speaker 3: at Ogilvy, where I was working in production behind the scenes.

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Speaker 3: I very much could not keep my mouth shut there

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Speaker 3: about wanting to be on camera and wanting to do

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Speaker 3: on camera stuff. And I would show Johns Hopkins clips

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Speaker 3: to everyone I met. As I told you on our

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Speaker 3: Run too. I was on The Today Show a handful

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Speaker 3: of times in college, so I would show my TV

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Speaker 3: appearances to people. And I ended up having one meeting

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Speaker 3: at Ogilvy and Mayther with the head of Ogilvy and

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Speaker 3: Mayther North America, the chief creative officer. She invited me

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Speaker 3: into her office. I was like the lowest down on

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Speaker 3: the totem Pole job, and she invited me in to

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Speaker 3: just meet her and pick her brain. And it was

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Speaker 3: not a job interview. I already had the job, but

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Speaker 3: I fully treated it like a job interview. I went

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Speaker 3: in there being like, let me show you all the

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Speaker 3: things I've done and just brag about myself for five minutes,

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Speaker 3: and I put everything out in front of her. I

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Speaker 3: could see her energy towards me shift from like the

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Speaker 3: moment I walked in, when she was like, okay, just

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Speaker 3: another young person who wants to pick my brain to

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Speaker 3: by the end of the five minutes in there her

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Speaker 3: kind of lighting up, being like, wait, this girl is creative.

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Speaker 3: We should figure out what we can get out of her,

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Speaker 3: we should figure out how to use her. And nothing

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Speaker 3: really came out of it right away, but a few

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Speaker 3: months later she became the COO of Refinery twenty nine,

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Speaker 3: and that's how I got brought over there. Wow.

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Speaker 2: And for a little bit of context for everybody listening,

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Speaker 2: Ogilvie and Mather is an advertising and public relations agency.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the biggest ones.

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Speaker 2: And I used to work in advertising as well, so

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Speaker 2: I like knowing that you have a little bit of

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Speaker 2: that background. Also, I wasn't on the production side of things.

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Speaker 2: I was on the account management side. But advertising awesome

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Speaker 2: place to start your career. And I love knowing that

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Speaker 2: your coworkers really fostered your creativity and that the woman

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Speaker 2: that became the COO of Refiner twenty nine brought you

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Speaker 2: with her and was like, I see talent in her, Like,

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Speaker 2: I think that's so cool.

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Speaker 1: She could clearly like see the passion.

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Speaker 2: And I think like this is a moment also to

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Speaker 2: give advice to anybody listening that is at a point

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Speaker 2: in their career where maybe they don't feel like it's

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Speaker 2: the end goal for them and they know that there's

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Speaker 2: something more. What do you think people should be doing

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Speaker 2: that are in similar shoes that you were in?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think you realize in the working world that

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Speaker 3: everyone is trying. Everyone's kind of looking around. This is

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Speaker 3: maybe an unfortunate thing to say, but everyone's sort of

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Speaker 3: looking around for who could help them, and whether that's

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Speaker 3: you know, a really creative person to bring on their team,

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Speaker 3: or you know, someone that's just going to help them

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Speaker 3: in their pursuit. And I realized early on that by

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Speaker 3: sharing what your skills are and being really vocal about

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Speaker 3: what you're good at and what you can do and

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Speaker 3: what you want to do, and planting that in other

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Speaker 3: people's heads, that's when people are going to start to

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Speaker 3: think of you when it's their job to do something.

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Speaker 3: And so when this woman went to Refinery twenty nine

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden. Her job is to build

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Speaker 3: up the video team. Her reaching out to me, she's

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Speaker 3: thinking like, I want to look good here. I'm the COO.

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Speaker 3: I need to find the best people for this. But

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Speaker 3: for me, it's like you're giving me the dream opportunity

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Speaker 3: of a lifetime. And so I guess not being scared

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Speaker 3: to share your skills and share what you want to

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Speaker 3: do and say it to people and showcase. I always

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Speaker 3: tell people use your social platforms as a portfolio of

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Speaker 3: what you do and what you can do, because when

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Speaker 3: it comes time for someone to hire someone to do

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Speaker 3: the job, they want to see that someone's actually doing it,

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Speaker 3: someone actually has the capabilities, and you need to have

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Speaker 3: work to showcase.

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Speaker 2: For Yeah, it's like you never know when somebody is

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Speaker 2: going to remember you and call on you.

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of funny.

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Speaker 2: This is a different story, but just a fun one

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Speaker 2: I think for everybody listening is I interviewed Henry Golding

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Speaker 2: like about a year ago and he was the main actor,

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Speaker 2: the lead in Crazy Rich Asians, and his story was

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Speaker 2: that he was some sort of talk show host or

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Speaker 2: like game show host in Malaysia and somebody met him

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Speaker 2: at a party and said, this guy has like this

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Speaker 2: crazy it factor. He's got the face, he talks in

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Speaker 2: a very posh way. And years later, when they were

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Speaker 2: casting for Crazy Rich Asians, that woman that he had

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Speaker 2: met at that party was I think like the head

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Speaker 2: of the accounting department for the movie, or some sort

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Speaker 2: of person on the finance team. They couldn't find anybody

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Speaker 2: for the role. They were having trouble, and she was like,

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Speaker 2: I know this guy. I met him in Malaysia. He

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Speaker 2: has a little bit of on camera experience, no acting experience,

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Speaker 2: but I think he's our guy.

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Speaker 1: And you know, they finally called on him and it

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Speaker 1: changed his life.

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Speaker 2: So it's kind of like it's so important to always

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Speaker 2: put yourself out there and tell people what you want, because, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you never know.

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Speaker 1: When they're going to call on you, and sometimes it

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Speaker 1: can take years.

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Speaker 2: So what was the timeline for you from going from

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Speaker 2: that meeting and then joining refinery.

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Speaker 3: She must have moved there three months later and then

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Speaker 3: six months later. I was there so quick. Yeah, it

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00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 3: was very fast, and I think I was at Ogilvy

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Speaker 3: for less than a year, Like it was my first job.

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Speaker 3: And when I got the job at Refinery, they were

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Speaker 3: able to offer me the same salary not a penny more,

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Speaker 3: and I was just I remember comparing the two offers

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Speaker 3: when this girl, when this woman contacted me to tell

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Speaker 3: me that she was moving to Refinery twenty nine, which

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Speaker 3: she you know, she told me she was moving there

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Speaker 3: months before she called me to bring me there. But

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Speaker 3: when she called me and told me she was moving there,

440
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 3: I remember her saying, I just wanted to call you

441
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,199
Speaker 3: to tell you I'm leaving. I'm going to Refinery twenty nine.

442
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 3: Do you know what that is? And I was like,

443
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 3: is it a clothing store? I think I was thinking

444
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 3: of Forever twenty one and she's like, no, it's a

445
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 3: media company, Female Focus. It's kind of like BuzzFeed for women.

446
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,719
Speaker 3: I was like, I've never heard of this company in

447
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 3: my life. I wasn't. I don't think I was in

448
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,360
Speaker 3: the super hip Brooklyn scene. And it was very much

449
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 3: a Brooklyn brand. Even when I started working there in

450
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 3: the Financial district, all of the office were named after

451
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 3: Brooklyn streets. And I just remember I didn't know anything

452
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 3: about it, and I called my parents to talk about

453
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 3: should I move from Ogilvie to this company? And even

454
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 3: though they were offering me a way cooler job, and

455
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 3: the same salary. It took me a little nudge to

456
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 3: It wasn't immediate. You know, I'm out of here. I

457
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 3: really had to think about it because it was twenty

458
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 3: twenty five. No one knew what was about to happen

459
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,159
Speaker 3: with Refinery twenty nine and the digital video space and

460
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 3: Snapchat no one knew, and so in my head I

461
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 3: was weighing, do I stay at this one hundred year

462
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,120
Speaker 3: old ad empire that to me felt like an amazing

463
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 3: job out of college, or do I go to this

464
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 3: startup that no one's ever heard of and start being

465
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,120
Speaker 3: on YouTube, which, like to me, YouTube didn't even seem

466
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 3: that cool. Then I was like, I want to be

467
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,439
Speaker 3: on Facebook. I want to be on the site, like

468
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 3: I didn't want to be on YouTube, but they stuck

469
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 3: me on YouTube and it became the best place to be,

470
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 3: and I just I thought about it a long time

471
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 3: and I was like, you know what, it's the same salary.

472
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 3: If nothing else, it's a cooler, younger brand and the

473
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 3: office has green juice, so that'll be fun. Like I

474
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 3: thought it was cool on Hip and I could never

475
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 3: have predicted how much money was about to be poured

476
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 3: into digital video and the way the world was going

477
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 3: to shift.

478
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you ended up taking the job and

479
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 1: it changed your life.

480
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I can relate to that to leaving

481
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,719
Speaker 2: a job and going to something that's a little bit

482
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 2: smaller and not knowing what it's what's going to happen,

483
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 2: or if it's going to work out. And yeah, getting

484
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 2: a job at Ogilv and Mather is like getting a

485
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 2: job at Goldman Sachs. When you work in finance, you

486
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: know it's one of the top firms. It's where everybody

487
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 2: wants to work.

488
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 3: It's also worth mentioning when I was at Ogilv, I

489
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: actually got my start building my social platforms before Refinery

490
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 3: twenty nine, and not as an on camera influencer. I

491
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 3: got my start by creating stop motion animation videos. I

492
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 3: remember your stop motion that was like og days I

493
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 3: was working at Ogilv, I there were a few days

494
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 3: where I didn't have anything to do, and I picked

495
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,719
Speaker 3: up a camera and went into one of the conference

496
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 3: rooms and started animating a little piece of candy on

497
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 3: the table. And I had no idea what I was doing,

498
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 3: but I just remember thinking, like, clamation this must be

499
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,360
Speaker 3: how they do it. What would happen if I took

500
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 3: five hundred pictures and then I put it into iMovie

501
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 3: and strung it out and made each frame point one seconds,

502
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 3: like it will look like this marshmallow was moving on

503
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 3: the table. And I edited this video posted it everyone.

504
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 3: I put it on my Facebook and my Instagram, where

505
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 3: I had like only people who knew me following me,

506
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 3: and people were like, this is so cool, and I remember,

507
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 3: I just fell in love with it, kept doing it.

508
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 3: Would come home every day after work and just go

509
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 3: buy something like a donut or a pizza slice and

510
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 3: then animate it in my apartment, and eventually my whole

511
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 3: Instagram feed was this art portfolio that I was just

512
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 3: doing for fun, totally for fun. This was my metamorphosis

513
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 3: into starting to monetize this. So I started posting all

514
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 3: this content. I just had like boatloads of fifteen seconds

515
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 3: stop motion animations on my page. This was at a

516
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 3: time when Instagram could only accommodate fifteen second videos. So

517
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 3: I was making these little clips posting them to a

518
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 3: point where I infiltrated everyone who knew me in real life.

519
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 3: So every single person I ran into was like, oh,

520
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 3: I've been seeing your little animations like someone even asked me,

521
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 3: are you wearing an invisible glove and moving stuff? And

522
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 3: I was like, no, it's stop motion, like you ever

523
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 3: seen Wallace and Grommet, Like this is clamation And I

524
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 3: started doing it, and eventually someone in my circle it

525
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 3: was like my brother's friend's sister's friend was does that

526
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: make sense? I don't remember who was. Yeah. She was like,

527
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 3: I'm working at a small I work at this small company,

528
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: and we're looking for someone to make a campaign, a

529
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 3: fifteen second video for a Mother's Day campaign. How much

530
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 3: do you charge for these videos? And I was like,

531
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 3: charge I do this for free, Like this is just

532
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: my side. I have a job at Ogilvy. This is

533
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 3: my weekend gig. And she's like, okay, well can we

534
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 3: pay you to do it? I call my mom. I'm like,

535
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 3: what should I charge for a fifteen second video? And

536
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 3: my mom has no idea. We're going back and forth.

537
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 3: Eventually I'm like, one hundred dollars seems good because that's

538
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 3: like fifteen dollars a second, Like I don't know, that

539
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 3: sounds good to me.

540
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a lot of lunches.

541
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, And she I tell her, you know, I

542
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 3: could do it for one hundred dollars. Thankfully she looks,

543
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 3: you know, we're like talking in person. I was like,

544
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: I think one hundred dollars and she is like, we

545
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 3: have five hundred for the campaign if you want that,

546
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: and I was like, sure, I think I want that.

547
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 3: So I took it for five hundred. I made the video,

548
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: I posted it, and then the next week I get

549
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 3: an email from a random small brand in the UK

550
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 3: how much do you charge for these videos? And I

551
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 3: was like five hundred and they said okay, and I

552
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 3: did a few of views. I just kept being like,

553
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 3: my rate is five hundred. That just stuck in my head.

554
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: You know.

555
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 3: Some brands were like, we only have two hundred, and

556
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, I want to do it or

557
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: I don't, and others were getting up to my five

558
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 3: hundred rate. And then I just had this epiphany one day,

559
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 3: what if I just double it? What if I just

560
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 3: say the rate is a thousand? Like who knows?

561
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 2: And at the time, you're still working at Ogilvie, yes,

562
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 2: And were you in the videos at all?

563
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: Or was literally just like objects?

564
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 3: No, it was just objects.

565
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's crazy.

566
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 3: Continue it was just like their products. So you know,

567
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: the UK brand was a business card brand, so they

568
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 3: sent me a whole box of their business cards and

569
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 3: I made this like business card house that collapsed. I

570
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 3: worked with Parmaham making Perducto skewers that just like built up.

571
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 3: I was learning so much about brands and working with brands,

572
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 3: so for example, that Parmaham brand, they sent me the

573
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 3: product and told me what to do, but like we

574
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 3: did not have a creative brief, we didn't have a

575
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: call with Now when I do a brand deal, it's

576
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 3: like there's a million rules. Don't do this, do this,

577
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 3: don't wear this, where that this. I just made five

578
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 3: videos for them on this like marble slab of like

579
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 3: berjutto and melon and whatever, and I shared it with

580
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 3: them and were like, I'm so sorry, we have to

581
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 3: scrap this because in Italy marble is the bathroom, not

582
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 3: the kitchen.

583
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: So your first time getting brand pushed.

584
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: Yes, they were like needs to be on wood and

585
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, well I don't think I can

586
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 3: mask this marble. Like I didn't have the technical skills.

587
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,479
Speaker 3: So it's just I learned so much and I eventually

588
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 3: doubled the rate to a thousand and then one day

589
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 3: I get an email in my inbox from soul Cycle.

590
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 3: They were like, how much do you charge? We're doing

591
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 3: a July fourth campaign for some new merch and we

592
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 3: want a stop motion thing on our feed. And I

593
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 3: was like, you know what, soul Cycle has to have

594
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: more than one thousand dollars. That's like five people taking

595
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 3: a class is one thousand dollars. So I need to

596
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 3: not low ball myself here. So I tried a new

597
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: tactic where I was like, how about you let me

598
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 3: know what budget you're working with for the July fourth

599
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 3: campaign and then I'll let you know what I can do.

600
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 3: And they took some time, and then the woman emails

601
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 3: me back and she's like, hey, Lucy, I'm so sorry.

602
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: Our budgets are so tight for this campaign. We only

603
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,959
Speaker 3: have four thousand dollars. Is that okay with you? And

604
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: I scream. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is four

605
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 3: times my rate. But I responded back very casually and

606
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 3: I was like, I think I can make it work

607
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 3: for four k. Thank you. Not to say my new

608
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 3: rate became four k, but it just was showing me.

609
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 3: I was really inspired by this other stop motion creator

610
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 3: who I don't even need to say her name, but

611
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 3: she was like a professional stop motion artist who I followed,

612
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 3: and I remember hearing from someone at work that she

613
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: did a fifteen second vine for Pepsi for twenty K

614
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 3: and I was like, this is valuable. Brands are looking

615
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 3: for this content. Now everyone's doing stop motion, but it

616
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 3: was like before it just was getting hot in commercials,

617
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 3: and I was like, this is good content. Brands need this,

618
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 3: So I'm just going to start asking brands their budget

619
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 3: before I give them my rate. And that's really how

620
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: I started. And throughout my whole time at Ogilvie, this

621
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 3: stop motion side business was paying for my rent. It

622
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 3: was just like a side hust so that covered my

623
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 3: apartment in the city while I made my income from Ogilvy.

624
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 3: And then when I moved to Refinery, they part of

625
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: the reason that they hired me was that they saw

626
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: that I had the stop motion business, and I remember

627
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 3: the head of video at Refinery twenty nine saying to me,

628
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 3: we'd love to use your stop motion skills for our

629
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 3: brand partnership. So then once I got to Refinery, I

630
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 3: was doing stop motion content for Oreo and like huge

631
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 3: brands for Refinery and Unfortunately for me, it was never

632
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: me getting an extra fee. I was just like a

633
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 3: salaried employee. But I did get to work with a

634
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 3: lot of great brands.

635
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you say this.

636
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: I love knowing that story because I had no idea

637
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 2: about the stop motion past of yours. But I did

638
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: always notice over the years when you were at Refinery

639
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: and even afterwards, like you always do, sometimes we've in

640
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: the stop motions.

641
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I still love it. And then you know, eventually,

642
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 3: once I started being on camera more, I would come

643
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: up with ways to incorporate it with me, which is

644
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: harder to do because you're behind the camera anymore. But

645
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: I always love in my video content, specifically my ads.

646
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 3: I always liked to make them in a creative stylistic

647
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: way that's edited cool.

648
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And you have the technical skills to do that,

649
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: so it's like, why not use that muscle. Well, you

650
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: end up entering Refinery twenty nine during this golden age

651
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: of the digital world and a video So you talked

652
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: a little bit about what Refinery was, and it was

653
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: a Brooklyn based company and it was female run. But

654
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: let's paint the picture a little bit more about what

655
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: Refinery twenty nine was at the time, and maybe like, what.

656
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: Did Instagram feeds look like back then?

657
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 3: You know, oh yeah, I mean Instagram feeds, a lot

658
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 3: of people were just posting flat lays of their food

659
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 3: on seamless paper, like it was not real life, low touch.

660
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 3: It was like everyone wanted high quality, professional everywhere I went.

661
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: It was like I'm standing on my chair taking a

662
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 3: photo of my whole brunch spread. I don't know, the

663
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: the style was different, and I think also at that time,

664
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 3: it was becoming more and more visually appealing for people

665
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 3: to follow social media profiles that had clearly high quality

666
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 3: camera photography shots, whereas now I think people are gravitating

667
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: towards content that looks like it was shot on the iPhone.

668
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 3: Then you know, every video it's a hybrid. I mean,

669
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 3: everyone I think appreciates a good cinematic moment, but for

670
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: vloggers or you know, people are now they want to see.

671
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 3: Even then, my YouTube content at Refinery was very high touch,

672
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: Like I had a videographer with a C three hundred

673
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 3: following me, and it was like he was doing all

674
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 3: this amazing depthy stuff and YouTube the company was giving

675
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 3: Refinery feedback on my content. Saying it's like too good,

676
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: it needs to be low touch, like they were showing

677
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 3: us Emma Chamberlain on the Rise and people who were

678
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: making content that just looked like it was dark and dingy,

679
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 3: and I kind of was like, I understand what you're saying,

680
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: but I have a desire to make good quality content,

681
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 3: Like I always wanted my content to look like it

682
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: could be on TV. So I always because that's your art. Yeah,

683
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 3: to me, I'm like, that's what I watched growing up.

684
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 3: That's what I want to make. I don't want to

685
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 3: just make stuff low touch so that if it's into

686
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 3: the mold of what's hot right now, I want it

687
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 3: to be.

688
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: And the low touch, the low touch style that Emma has,

689
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: that's her.

690
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 3: Art, Yeah, you know for sure. Yeah, And she's I mean,

691
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 3: she's such a talented editor, so it doesn't matter what

692
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: she does because she's making it engaging and really. Like

693
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 3: Instagram was on the rise, Snapchat was the big place,

694
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 3: and all the stuff that I think my platforms grew

695
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 3: the most from the YouTube content being repurposed onto Snapchat

696
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 3: because in twenty fifteen, Refinery twenty nine got one of

697
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 3: the Snapchat Discover bubbles at the time when there were

698
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 3: only twenty brands or twenty five media brands that were there,

699
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,959
Speaker 3: which meant that like every time a new Triliv Inclusi

700
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 3: came out, it was published there, and I would see

701
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 3: every time it was put on Snapchat. I would open

702
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 3: my Instagram and it's like five thousand new followers in

703
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 3: twenty four hours, and it was really a heavy growth period.

704
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 3: I remember I walked in there. I had a list

705
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 3: of ideas of YouTube series I could host. The head

706
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 3: of the video department pointed to the five Day Challenge

707
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 3: one and said, go shoot a pilot of that. This

708
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 3: is my first week there. I chose the pilot was

709
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,239
Speaker 3: going to be five days of no phone and they

710
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 3: didn't give me anyone to film it at the time,

711
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 3: so I was like, I need my phone to film it,

712
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: and he was like, well, you need to find someone

713
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 3: else with the phone to film it because you're putting

714
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 3: your phone away. So I turned my phone off, put

715
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 3: it in the drawer, and then had another friend in

716
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 3: the office follow me. Eventually, they had an in house

717
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 3: videographer who was just like there whenever I needed to

718
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: reserve him. But I just shot the first episode showed

719
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: it to him. He watched it, He gave no notes.

720
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 3: He was like, post it and keep going, and actually

721
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: that's not what happened. He said, make another. So I

722
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: made a second one, and then he said make another.

723
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 3: I made a third one, and then he said, okay,

724
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: now post the first and now you're three weeks ahead.

725
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 3: Keep going, and it was just another Like from that

726
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 3: moment forward, it was a train moving full steam ahead.

727
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 3: And I don't think I stopped shooting until we called

728
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: it like the end of season one. I was like,

729
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 3: I need to have a month to regroup, relax, shoot

730
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 3: new content, get some stuff in the can, because I

731
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 3: was I was literally shooting stuff on Monday that had

732
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 3: to go live on Friday.

733
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're doing literally your weeks are weeks of challenges.

734
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 3: Yes, And it was a lot.

735
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 2: And it was about five am one right, waking up

736
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 2: at what was it waking up at five morning for

737
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 2: five days?

738
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: Which is great for you, by the way.

739
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 2: But you know, the thing that I find so interesting too,

740
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: is like why I called it like the Golden Age

741
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: of video is because what Refinery twenty nine was so

742
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 2: good at was you guys were coming in as a

743
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 2: professional company, but not operating the same way like the

744
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: Today Show operates, where the hosts go on and they

745
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: have a script that they're following. Like you, as the host,

746
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: were coming on and doing everything from scripting to hosting,

747
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: to editing to actually yeah, hosting, being on camera, Like

748
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: you guys had to be as hosts kind of like

749
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 2: the jack of all trades.

750
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 3: And that's I mean, one could say that that's because

751
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 3: they were ahead of their time and they were giving

752
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 3: people autonomy. But on the flip side of that, it

753
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 3: was like they had no budgets, so they were like,

754
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 3: this person's going to do everything, and that's pretty much

755
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 3: why for a lot of their content, and like this

756
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 3: goes for BuzzFeed, advice and every place. But like that's

757
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 3: this is why for a lot of those companies when

758
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 3: they make videos, they use their own employees as the

759
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: talent because they just don't have extra budgets to pay.

760
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: Everything is so scrappy. There's basically no budget for the series.

761
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 3: So the budget is them paying me my salary and

762
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 3: then I'm running around shooting editing, putting it together only

763
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 3: by you know, maybe season two of the show, did

764
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 3: we have a dedicated videographer who was they're available to shoot,

765
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 3: and then editors who were editing, and I was just

766
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 3: giving rounds and rounds of notes. But like, truthfully, I

767
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 3: always had difficulty letting go of control of the episodes

768
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 3: because I was I very much saw myself as the

769
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 3: executive producer, and I was like, if I just had

770
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 3: more time in the day, I would be the scriptwriter,

771
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 3: the producer, the host, and the full editor and the

772
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 3: community manager of it once it goes live. Obviously I'm

773
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 3: just one person, so I can't do that. But I

774
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 3: was heavy handed in the edits, and I would give

775
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: pages and pages of notes to the point where it's like,

776
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 3: can you cut this one breath out at this millisecond

777
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 3: of a time code, because to me, that makes a

778
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 3: difference in the viewing experience.

779
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: No, it's so true, and I'm a big believer that

780
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: when you're first starting out with content, like when I

781
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 2: first started my running interview show, it was the same thing.

782
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: Like I was running around filming the episodes, planning the episodes,

783
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: getting people to be on them, with me doing the prep,

784
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: doing all the editing, literally running like there was just

785
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: so so much involved. And also I was working at

786
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: full time job in advertising so it was just like

787
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: not sleeping, but like building off of this momentum.

788
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think that's where you find success.

789
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 3: Like you're honing your own craft and coming up with

790
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 3: your own style, and.

791
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 2: You're figuring out your voice and how you like yourself

792
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 2: to show up on camera, you know. And there's so

793
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 2: many little nuances in editing that I think, like the

794
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 2: best editors understand pacing, and that's a really hard skill

795
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 2: to learn when you're editing the pacing of somebody else's videos.

796
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: I totally get that if not wanting to let go

797
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: of control, but in order to grow, you have to write.

798
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 2: And like, would you have been able to start Lucy

799
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: for Hire if you hadn't had that editing team.

800
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 3: No?

801
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: No.

802
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 3: And I also, you know, being one person, I wouldn't

803
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 3: have been able to take the content that I was

804
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 3: spending so much time producing on YouTube and blast out

805
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 3: across every other platform if it weren't for the media

806
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 3: power behind Refinery. So they had teams for everything. So

807
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 3: like I was working hard on one YouTube asset and

808
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 3: then I would wake up the next morning and it

809
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 3: was repurposed, cut vertically, chopped up to put on Snapchat.

810
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: It was repurposed into a really beautiful Pinterest graphic. It

811
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 3: was popped on Facebook in a square shape, it was

812
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 3: on the website as an article. They would just take

813
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 3: the one thing I did and we were talking about

814
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: getting the most shelf life out of your content. They

815
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 3: were taking it and putting all their team power behind it,

816
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: and then I would just like see it in other

817
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 3: places and then I didn't. That was one thing that

818
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 3: was hit me hard when I left in twenty nineteen.

819
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm going off on my own. I'm

820
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 3: signing with an agent and I'm going to be doing

821
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 3: this on my own. And I started creating my own

822
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 3: YouTube content and then I was like, oh my gosh,

823
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 3: I need to put this everywhere. And that's not a

824
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: one person job.

825
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: No it's not. Yeah, I mean the distribution of platforms.

826
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 2: It's the hardest part, yeah, because it's tedious enough getting

827
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: through one long form video and then even just identifying

828
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: the cutdowns that's allthing that you were doing, and then

829
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: it's a whole another thing.

830
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: When totally and I do even to this day, like

831
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 3: I watch every piece of content that's going to come

832
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 3: out on my platform or my podcasts platform, and I

833
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 3: give it final approval, but I've had to kind of

834
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 3: let go of the need to do the first round

835
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 3: edit on everything because then I would just be in

836
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:29,959
Speaker 3: a dark room all day.

837
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: How did your show try? Living with Lucy? Like, how

838
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: did you come up with the idea?

839
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: Honestly, it was on a list of a bunch of

840
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 3: other format ideas. I remember just thinking what would I

841
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 3: watch if I saw it on my Facebook feed? Like

842
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 3: I were at that time, I was just scrolling through

843
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 3: Facebook there. It was sort of the rise of the

844
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 3: BuzzFeed content that was popping up, and a lot of

845
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: digital publications were using their in house editors to make stuff,

846
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 3: and I was just like, what do I personally want

847
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 3: I do and what would I want to watch? And

848
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 3: I was getting really interested in the challenges that I

849
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 3: did in the show as a person, Like I think

850
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 3: the twenty fourteen twenty fifteen time for me, which is

851
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 3: right when I graduated college, that was such an exploratory

852
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 3: time in my life of do I want to be

853
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 3: a morning person? What kind of exercises do I want

854
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 3: to try? Like I've never eaten in a certain way?

855
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 3: Do I want do I want to explore veganism? Like

856
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 3: what are these cold showers. People are talking about these

857
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 3: trends that are popping up, and I'm reading articles, But

858
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 3: what would happen if I tried them and save people

859
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 3: time and just show them my takeaway? And so that

860
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 3: was kind of how I came up with the concept.

861
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 3: But pretty quickly into working there, I realized that not

862
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 3: a lot of people know that the show was very

863
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 3: much like a produced show in that yes I did

864
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 3: do the challenges, I actually did them, but most of

865
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 3: the content that people were seeing was not me doing

866
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 3: stuff in real time. Some of it was like sometimes

867
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 3: I would set up my phone and whatnot, but a

868
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 3: lot of times it was like I did the challenge

869
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 3: for a week. I would take notes on what was happening.

870
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 3: Then I would sit down and produce a story arc

871
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: of likes as a reality TV show producer would. What

872
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 3: is the story arc? This can't just be a vlog

873
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 3: of what's happening live because that's going to get boring.

874
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 3: So there needs to be like the introduction, there has

875
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 3: to be some rising action. We need to find some

876
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 3: tension around Wednesday or Thursday, and then I need to

877
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 3: resolve it on Friday and have a takeaway. What's my story.

878
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 3: I would write my script and then I would go

879
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 3: back and record all of the weekly things. There were

880
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 3: days when I would be in my apartment with my

881
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 3: webcam changing out its five times to be filming Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,

882
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 3: and then my videographer would followed me as I recreated

883
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 3: some of the things I did in the week. Some

884
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: episodes I couldn't do that because it was like you

885
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 3: really needed to see my raw reaction to doing it live.

886
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 3: Like when I went to this guy knew Jery and

887
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 3: he had me hold all these bugs and I was

888
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 3: facing my fears like I needed that needed to be

889
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 3: filmed live. But a lot of stuff like the cold showers,

890
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 3: I wasn't actually taking cold shower and having the experience

891
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 3: with my cameraman in the room. It was like I

892
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 3: did it and then he'd come to my apartment. I'd

893
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 3: put on a bathing suit and we'd get some like

894
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 3: b roll of the water and whatever, and so it

895
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,439
Speaker 3: was produced like a show. But I think it came

896
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 3: off naturally enough that most people didn't know that.

897
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I had no idea. That's so funny.

898
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: What were some of the things that you did as

899
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: challenges that you implemented into your life, if any.

900
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 3: I definitely got really into the wellness stuff, so I

901
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 3: fell in love with bullet journaling, and I for a while,

902
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 3: I was like really into I've always been into art

903
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 3: and drawing and that kind of stuff, but for a

904
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 3: while I fell in love with having a journal and

905
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 3: tracking habits and just wellness things like. I also got

906
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,760
Speaker 3: super into meditation for a while, and I her Veda.

907
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 3: I was really intrigued by. I felt like I learned

908
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 3: so much about that. Otherwise, I think that they were

909
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 3: just fun learning experiences and pushed me to get out

910
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 3: of my comfort zone and try new things. Like the

911
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 3: Facing my Fears episode was one that I really didn't

912
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 3: want to do for a while because I was like,

913
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 3: I don't really want to do these, yeah, you know.

914
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: One fear was with those I had like scorpions in

915
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 3: my hand. Another fear I was sitting reading negative comments

916
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 3: that were written about me out loud. And it was

917
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 3: like every single time I did something that was hard

918
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 3: that I didn't want to do, I was like, that

919
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 3: was an amazing experience, and I think the show taught

920
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 3: me overall. It was called Try Living with Lucy that

921
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 3: ended up being the best name. Because my takeaway from

922
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 3: my own show is the power of trying new things

923
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 3: is crazy. And pretty much every stage of my career,

924
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: every ounce of success I've had, has come from me

925
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 3: doing something that I didn't know how to do and

926
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 3: just saying I'm just going to try it and see

927
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 3: what happens, and then it turned into something and blossomed

928
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 3: into something. So I just I'm always encouraging people to

929
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 3: keep curious, Like, remain curious as you age, remain curious

930
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 3: as you grow, Like, don't pin yourself and pigeonhole yourself

931
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 3: and say I'm not good at this kind of thing

932
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 3: or I don't like this. You never know what's going

933
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 3: to come out of just trying something new and keeping

934
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 3: things fresh. And so I try to live by that energy.

935
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 1: That's such a good ethos to live by.

936
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: And yeah, it is so important to be curious and

937
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 2: ask questions and try new things.

938
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 1: Let's dive a little bit into one of the things

939
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: that you just said.

940
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 2: So you talked about one of the things that you

941
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 2: never wanted to do was read negative comments about yourself.

942
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 2: The irony of the whole thing is like you have

943
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 2: such a positive platform, right You've always been like Lucy's

944
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: always been my favorite creator and somebody that I've been

945
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 2: so inspired by with everything I do online.

946
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm so honored. Is that wild? It's wild. I

947
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 3: wish I knew you'd sooner. I wish you answered my

948
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 3: DM girl.

949
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: I know that would have been cool. You probably would

950
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 2: have been on the show sooner though, and maybe I

951
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 2: wouldn't have had my podcast, So this is perfect timing.

952
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 3: This is great.

953
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: Actually, I remember when you hit one hundred thousand followers

954
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: and like how excited you were, and I remember like, all,

955
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just so funny.

956
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 3: I remember I had a little party for that.

957
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, with Michael, Yes, so cute. It was so cute.

958
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: But you've always had such a positive platform, and I

959
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 2: don't know, just the concept of trying things that are

960
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: outside of your comfort zone, just like breeds positivity, and

961
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 2: I feel like there's nothing there's just nothing negative about you.

962
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 2: So when you go from you know, ogle Fee to

963
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: working at Refiner twenty nine and all of a sudden

964
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 2: becoming this public face and like really being a public

965
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: face for the first time, I'm sure you started getting

966
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: recognized walking around New York, like what was that like

967
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 2: for you.

968
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 3: I got a little taste of what happens when you

969
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 3: put yourself on social media at Johns Hopkins because posting

970
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 3: myself on YouTube, it was like, my immediate reaction is,

971
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 3: let's see what the comments are. And there wasn't too

972
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 3: much negativity. But there's always someone that sees you. There's

973
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 3: some stat out there that's like whatever X percentage of

974
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 3: people who see your face pop up on a tea

975
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 3: are just gonna hate you before they even hear a

976
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 3: word that comes out of your mouth. So I always

977
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 3: do that, who is this happy girl?

978
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:06,839
Speaker 2: Yeah?

979
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 3: I don't like this, Like I I just don't like this,

980
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 3: And I'm not immune. Sometimes I like see something and

981
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 3: I just form a judgment and I understand where it

982
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 3: comes from. But that's a thing that I like kind

983
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 3: of always knew was gonna happen. And then when I

984
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 3: was moving to Refinery, I remember my job at Ogilvie's

985
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 3: felt so safe because I kept saying I want to

986
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 3: be on camera, but I also was very not vulnerable

987
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 3: in my role there, and I didn't nothing I made

988
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 3: had my face in it. I was just behind the scenes.

989
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 3: And when I got this job at refinery, and I

990
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,280
Speaker 3: knew they were going to start putting me on camera.

991
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 3: I had to have this reckoning with myself of do

992
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 3: I actually want to do this because this is gonna

993
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 3: make in some ways, this could make my life better

994
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 3: and I'm probably gonna get to do the joyous things

995
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 3: I want to do and be on camera. But I

996
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 3: also pretty much know this is going to open the

997
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: door for me to get that mean, nasty stuff written

998
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 3: about me. And do I want to subject myself to that?

999
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 3: Because I don't have to, Like this is up to me.

1000
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 3: I could say I just don't want to do this,

1001
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 3: and then I'd live a safer life. And I thought

1002
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 3: about it for a while and I remember, like truly,

1003
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, the spot that I

1004
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 3: thrive in is having a camera be following me while

1005
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 3: I'm doing something and engaging with the world, bringing people

1006
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 3: into the activity, connecting with someone, showing things to people,

1007
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 3: making really complex topics easy to digest, and bringing people

1008
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 3: in and having empathy with the world. And when the

1009
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: camera turns on a lot of people get at their worst.

1010
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: It's like they freeze up whatever. For me, it is

1011
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 3: polar opposite. I could be shooting a basketball five thousand times.

1012
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 3: It's not hitting the rim. You turn the camera on swish,

1013
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 3: it's like it helps in every way. And I'm like,

1014
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 3: I know, this is what I want to be doing.

1015
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 3: And the only drawback of this is that I am

1016
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 3: subjecting myself to what people think. So do I want

1017
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: to go through that? And I really thought about it,

1018
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 3: and my final takeaway was, I think I will be

1019
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 3: happier at the end of my life if I do

1020
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 3: it and I try it, and I go for it,

1021
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 3: and I put myself out there and I deal with

1022
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 3: the negative comments, then if I sit on the sidelines

1023
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 3: and watch other people do it and stay safe. Because

1024
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 3: I just knew I was going to be a twenty

1025
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 3: five thirty year old girl watching someone else be on

1026
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 3: YouTube and I was going to be like, I should

1027
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: have done it. That's what I want to do. So

1028
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 3: I just made the decision I'm just going to do it,

1029
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 3: and I wasn't wrong. Getting to Refinery tweent nine and

1030
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 3: the moment you're on camera, there's hundreds of you have

1031
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 3: the worst vocal fry. You're the ugliest person I've ever seen.

1032
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 3: I've always had a really my whole family's like a

1033
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 3: slim body frame. My twin sister and I have the

1034
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,879
Speaker 3: same exact build and we always had difficulty gaining weight

1035
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 3: growing up, but like we eat as much as we

1036
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 3: ever want to eat. Immediate comments you have believe me

1037
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 3: a u vanorexia. You must have an eating disorder. Eat

1038
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 3: a burger, You're I could snap you in half. People

1039
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 3: commenting on features that I always loved about myself, like

1040
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 3: your eyes look like you have XYZ disease, Like those

1041
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 3: are the biggest eyes ever. You should get checked for this.

1042
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 3: That immediate hate about physical stuff and immediate commentary on

1043
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 3: the art form of what I'm posting. And this is

1044
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 3: so dumb, and you're such an idiot, and it's like

1045
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 3: you just immediately get bombarded. And then you're kind of

1046
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 3: the only one who season feels that because there's obviously

1047
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 3: it's like one percent of the comments are like that.

1048
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 3: The other ninety nine are people who are grateful for

1049
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 3: what you shared and liked watching it. But that one

1050
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 3: percent is so loud to you. You're kind of scouring

1051
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 3: the comments like dismissing all the good ones looking for

1052
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 3: the bad ones. And you really have to pretty early

1053
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 3: on in this field, like buck up and be like,

1054
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 3: if I want to keep doing this, I have to

1055
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 3: just know that that's going to be here and I'm

1056
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 3: never going to change these people's minds. It's not my

1057
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 3: responsibility to make everyone like me. And I'm doing what

1058
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 3: I'm doing, and hopefully the people that are liking what

1059
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 3: I'm doing will find me and follow me, and I

1060
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 3: think that's happened. But there's always people who dislike you,

1061
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 3: sometimes for whatever reasons they have, and sometimes for no

1062
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 3: reason at all. And sometimes the reason they dislike you

1063
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 3: is just because you're having some success at what you're doing,

1064
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: and maybe they don't want to do it themselves, but

1065
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 3: they are feeling triggered by it in some way. And

1066
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've ever seen my TEDx talk

1067
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 3: about the story I told about one time I was

1068
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 3: getting trolled NonStop by this one person, and normally I

1069
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 3: just will delete or block an incessant troller, but this

1070
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 3: one girl, I was like really shook by it because

1071
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 3: it was so aggressive and she seemed so upset, and

1072
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 3: I really got curious about what could possibly be causing this,

1073
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 3: and I DMed her and I was like, it sounds

1074
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 3: like you have a lot of feedback for me, let

1075
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 3: me know if you want to get on a zoom call,

1076
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 3: like I'd love to hear it in a more appropriate

1077
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 3: format because the comments you're leaving are not working right.

1078
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 3: And she responded yes, and I ended up getting on

1079
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 3: a zoom call with my troll and was a life

1080
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 3: changing experience. I mean, the call opened with small talk.

1081
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 3: It was like, where do you live, what's the weather like?

1082
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 3: It was very funny.

1083
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: We give us the details. Where did she live?

1084
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: Like?

1085
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 3: Where was she was somewhere in the middle of the country.

1086
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: This was all during COVID. It was like a very

1087
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 3: dark time. She had lost a job, she ended she

1088
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 3: was in the middle of the country. We start talking

1089
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 3: and eventually I was like, we both know why we're here,

1090
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 3: so let's just dive into this. I've been seeing what

1091
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 3: you've been writing, and I really just would love to

1092
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 3: hear from you directly, you know, looking at me face

1093
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 3: to face. What are you trying to say? Like, what's

1094
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 3: going on? And within seconds she's hysterically crying. And she

1095
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 3: basically just went on to tell me that every area

1096
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 3: of my life that I share that showcases something going well,

1097
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 3: has a corresponding area of her life where something is

1098
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 3: going poorly. She's like, you're you are married and your

1099
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 3: relationship's doing well. I just got divorced. You're really close

1100
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 3: with your family. I see you're like best friends with

1101
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 3: your twin sister. I'm estranged from my mom. You are

1102
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 3: thin framed and whatever. I've been struggling with my weight

1103
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 3: and I've been eating disorder. You are doing well with

1104
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 3: your business. I just lost my job. Like it was

1105
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 3: exactly what you would, exactly what you think when someone

1106
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 3: is People always say, if someone's posting negative stuff, it's

1107
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 3: all about them, it's not about you. And it's like

1108
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 3: proof right there, that's exactly where negative negativity on the

1109
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 3: Internet comes from. And that's not to say that. You know,

1110
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 3: sometimes if there's someone who's like an absolute bigot, it's

1111
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 3: not that everyone writing about them, it's about them.

1112
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 2: Like yes, of course in most instances, it's like insecurity

1113
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 2: always speaks the loudest yes. And it's like, I feel

1114
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 2: like we even learn it growing up. Is like sometimes

1115
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 2: if there's like a bullyan school, Oh yeah, it's going

1116
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: around in your home life and you have to like

1117
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,760
Speaker 2: just meet them with grace. And I think that's amazing

1118
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 2: what you did. I'm going to take that tactic because

1119
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: it really is so smart. I yeah, maybe have a

1120
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 2: lot of zoom calls to get on.

1121
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 3: I mean, by the end of the call, I was like, listen,

1122
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 3: I hear you. I too get triggered when I see

1123
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 3: people on social media who are posting something good in

1124
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 3: an area of my life that's not doing great, I

1125
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 3: also say something negative. In my head. I'm personally I

1126
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 3: would never think to write something negative because to me,

1127
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 3: writing a mean post to someone is embarrassing for me, Like,

1128
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,399
Speaker 3: I think that gives me second hand embarrassment to do that,

1129
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 3: So I would never do it. But I understand where

1130
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 3: it's coming from in your own head. And I was like,

1131
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 3: I just want to pass on to you that sometimes

1132
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 3: when that happens to me and I feel the urge

1133
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 3: to say something negative, I force myself to write something positive,

1134
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 3: and I, without fail, always feel better leaving the interaction.

1135
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 3: By the end of it, she apologized, and I was like,

1136
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to unblock you. You can come back to

1137
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 3: my platforms, but you know, I'm just sending you love.

1138
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 3: I see where you're coming from. My takeaway from it

1139
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 3: was not that I need to like convert every troll

1140
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 3: into a loyal follower. She actually has since flip flopped

1141
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 3: and gone back and forth. She went through a really

1142
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 3: nice stage, then she became a troll again. It is

1143
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 3: what it is. My learning from it though, was that

1144
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 3: you it's not my job to make everyone like me,

1145
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 3: and you never know what others are going through, and

1146
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,439
Speaker 3: sometimes talking to those people and hearing about it helps

1147
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 3: you understand it more. But at the end of the day,

1148
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 3: I will never understand the attacking of people online. I

1149
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 3: just I don't think it like gets you anywhere.

1150
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And sometimes it's just it's just straight up bullying

1151
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: and it's mean.

1152
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really mean, you know.

1153
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 2: I think what's hard to as people that like really

1154
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 2: just try to create content that is positive and like

1155
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 2: has a positive message and you know, just shows people

1156
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 2: as humans, you know, and just tries to show a

1157
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 2: humanity and everything that you're doing and shows relatable experiences too,

1158
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 2: Like it is hard when you're met with negativity. On

1159
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 2: that note, I want to talk a little bit about

1160
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: your twin sister, yes, and your family. One of my

1161
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 2: favorite things about your content has always been that you

1162
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 2: let kind of the characters in your life in and

1163
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 2: I know that's a conscious decision as a content creator

1164
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 2: because I am personally not somebody that really shows my family.

1165
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 1: My two brothers work in finance.

1166
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 2: My twin has like no interest in being in my content,

1167
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 2: although I would love him to be in my content.

1168
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 2: Like how did you make the decision to put Ali

1169
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: in your content? And like how did she feel about it?

1170
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 2: How does she feel about it?

1171
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. Honestly, my family they've just

1172
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 3: sort of always known that this was the type of

1173
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 3: career field I was going to go down. And I

1174
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 3: would say my dad and my brother are two people

1175
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 3: who are also they're more in line with me personality wise.

1176
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 3: My dad is in the radio, my brother is a musician,

1177
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 3: and they just both are sort of in the media

1178
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 3: space and like posting on social media themselves, and they're

1179
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 3: very active on their own accounts. Anytime I ask I

1180
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 3: need you to be on my podcast, I needs you

1181
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 3: to be in this video. They're down to do anything.

1182
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 3: They're always like tag me, I want more followers.

1183
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 2: Whereas you were always so good at lifting your brother's

1184
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 2: music career up.

1185
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 3: Yes, and he's you know, he works at Spotify and

1186
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 3: he has a full time job, but he has this

1187
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 3: incredible band from his high school group of friends. And

1188
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 3: they're so talented and they're still working together and writing music.

1189
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 3: And I don't think any of them are trying actively

1190
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 3: to make it their jobs at this point, but they're

1191
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 3: just so talented and I use their music and all

1192
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 3: my stuff. Actually, my brother's song is my podcast like track. Yes,

1193
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 3: it's in the intro and the outro. It's called Rolling Stone.

1194
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 3: It's a great song. But you know, I ended up

1195
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 3: with a husband who was my high school sweetheart, who

1196
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 3: is very similar to my twin sister. So they are

1197
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 3: like twins with each other, same type of personality. They're

1198
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 3: way more introverted as people, and I think they just

1199
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 3: accept me for who I am and accept that part

1200
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 3: of being my wife or my sister means that you're

1201
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:19,479
Speaker 3: like somehow looped into this world. But I don't ask

1202
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 3: them to be anyone other than who they are. It's

1203
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 3: just that I sometimes do request their presence in content.

1204
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 3: For both of them, it's like they need advanced warning

1205
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 3: if I want them in something because they don't feel comfortable.

1206
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 3: It's not that they don't like it or they don't

1207
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 3: want it out there. It's not like I'm asking them

1208
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 3: to share stuff that they want to keep private. But

1209
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 3: it's just that being on camera for them, like I

1210
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 3: was saying, it makes them clam up. They don't feel

1211
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 3: like happy in that situation. So I have to literally

1212
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 3: tell my husband, like weeks in advance, we're going to

1213
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 3: be doing something on this day, mentally prepare yourself, and

1214
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 3: then he will. They're very not active on their own platforms.

1215
00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 3: My husband actually deleted his own Instagram account and his

1216
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 3: account his app, and then he like logs in occasionally

1217
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 3: from desktop to watch what I'm sharing. But both of

1218
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 3: them work, they have similar lives and jobs. They're both

1219
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 3: like in a financial field, and they just have no

1220
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 3: interest in this space. As I was telling you, I

1221
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 3: ask my husband every day if he wants to come

1222
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 3: work with me, and he's like, absolutely not. And my sister,

1223
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 3: I mean, she's always worked in finance. She's a trader,

1224
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 3: and she's gone through moments of like this, especially as

1225
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 3: she's getting into the stage of like thinking of having

1226
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,439
Speaker 3: kids in the next few years, Like do I want

1227
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 3: to work in finance? Is this gonna be a good job?

1228
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 3: What should I be entrepreneurial? Should I do something with you?

1229
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 3: Should we like start a line of something together. She's

1230
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 3: thought of it, but I think for the most part,

1231
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 3: she's happy to just do her life and have her privacy.

1232
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 3: And she was public on Instagram for a little while

1233
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 3: and I would tag her. She has fifteen thousand followers

1234
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 3: from that, but then she went private and she's like,

1235
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 3: I don't want these followers anymore. So now she says

1236
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 3: no to anyone knew who's trying to follow her, and

1237
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 3: she basically doesn't post. I don't know. I just think

1238
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 3: that the people in my life accept that they're going

1239
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 3: to be in some stuff, and it's kind of the

1240
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 3: same with this is how my husband and I have

1241
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 3: approached our kids. Like we talked a really long time

1242
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:17,439
Speaker 3: about do we show them do we not show them?

1243
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 3: And I never really wanted to be the person who

1244
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 3: was like putting emojis and hiding them. But I also

1245
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 3: never want to be like a family channel or to

1246
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 3: have my kids' faces be the number one thing that

1247
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 3: pops out on my feed. So I show them occasionally sparingly,

1248
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 3: and where possible, I try to show them from the

1249
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 3: back or the side, or like crop them from the

1250
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 3: nose down, but ever so often I pop their face on.

1251
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 2: I think you do a really good job managing thank you,

1252
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 2: you know, because it is kind of a hard thing

1253
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 2: to balance when like you are a lifestyle creator and

1254
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 2: like you love talking about family life and like being

1255
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 2: a mom, and I loved your content when you had

1256
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 2: just had my low. We haven't really talked about this yet.

1257
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 2: You know, you started at Refinery twenty nine, you had

1258
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 2: these video shows. You end up leaving Refinery twenty nine

1259
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 2: starting Lucy Ffink Media, which congratulations. I knowk you years

1260
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 2: now that you've been on your own, but still is

1261
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 2: just such a cool accomplishment when you transitioned from Refinery

1262
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 2: twenty nine, Like what was the biggest adjustment with your

1263
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 2: content and like what did you lean into?

1264
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 3: So when I left, it was twenty nineteen, and I

1265
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 3: got out at a really good time because the following year,

1266
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 3: Refinery twenty nine was sold to Vice and then it

1267
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 3: sort of dissolved, like not a single person I worked

1268
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 3: with their staid and it's now just like a subsidiary

1269
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 3: a Vice. But I had been working for a couple

1270
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 3: of years to leave, I really did want to start

1271
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: working with brands and an agent on my own, and

1272
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 3: for a couple of years I was committed to Refinery

1273
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 3: twenty nine and I basically had them being my agent.

1274
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 3: So in addition to my salary and the job I

1275
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 3: was doing for their YouTube channel, I was doing brand

1276
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 3: deals on my own Instagram that they were taking cut

1277
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,439
Speaker 3: of and that was happening for a couple of years

1278
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 3: until I just realized the split and the deal was

1279
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 3: not really in my favor. And I had basic confirmation

1280
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 3: from the agent that I ended up signing with that

1281
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 3: if I were to leave and go off that my

1282
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 3: first year I would be able to make more than

1283
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 3: my salary and all this other stuff combined, and she

1284
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 3: was right. And when I left, I think the biggest

1285
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 3: oh my gosh moment was, oh my gosh, I have

1286
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 3: to do everything that Refinery twenty nine was doing for myself,

1287
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 3: and I was really just a one woman show at

1288
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 3: that point. I had my agents for negotiating brand deals

1289
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 3: and handling contracts, but aside from that, it was like,

1290
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 3: I'm making all my editorial content, I'm making all my

1291
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 3: sponsored content, I'm editing everything, I'm making sure it goes

1292
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 3: up on every platform, writing all the captions, responding to

1293
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 3: every comment, and pretty quickly after working there, I was

1294
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,720
Speaker 3: like this is when I need to figure out a

1295
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 3: virtual assistant or hiring someone to help me. And I

1296
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 3: started experimenting with like employees at that point.

1297
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: And so, now how big is the Lucy Eating Media team?

1298
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 3: It's still very lean, I would say, I got I

1299
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 3: have one employee who's full time. She works with me.

1300
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 3: She's basically my right hand girl. And when I advertised

1301
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 3: for recruiting for this role, the job description was literally,

1302
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 3: I'm looking for me who doesn't want to be on camera.

1303
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 3: I just want someone who has all my skills, all

1304
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 3: my knowledge, same voice as me, or can at least

1305
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 3: capture my voice, but has no interest in becoming on camera.

1306
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 3: And I had to write that because at Refinery twenty

1307
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 3: nine there were a lot of interns and associate producers

1308
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 3: who would work with me to help the series and

1309
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 3: the franchises that I was building, but they secretly or

1310
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 3: not so secretly wanted to pitch their own shows. And

1311
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 3: I was like, I need someone here who just wants

1312
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 3: to be a producer.

1313
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

1314
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 2: You don't need somebody that is trying to figure out, well,

1315
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 2: what can I do for myself? You know, I really

1316
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 2: want somebody to be invested in you and those are

1317
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 2: the best people to work with because they're so dedicated

1318
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: to becoming the best producer, Like that's the self challenge

1319
01:02:58,240 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 2: for them.

1320
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 3: That time at Refinery was so unique because it was

1321
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 3: really the rise of the personal brand, and every single

1322
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 3: person that worked at Refinery twenty nine, whether they were

1323
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 3: a coder or a writer, or a beauty editor or

1324
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 3: a video editor, it was like every single person was

1325
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 3: somehow wanting to get on camera and be in the

1326
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 3: videos and build their own personal brand around whatever they did.

1327
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 3: And I believe there's a space for everyone to do that.

1328
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 3: But it was really hard when my job title there

1329
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 3: was on camera talent, and I was like I came

1330
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 3: here to host, and now all my editors and producers

1331
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 3: and the support team also wants to host. It was

1332
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 3: hard and navigating, you know, helping lift people up and

1333
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 3: helping them get their series greenlit while also being like

1334
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 3: I just need producers and support here and so working

1335
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 3: on my own. I finally now I have this one

1336
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 3: right hand girl who's great. I have a virtual assistant

1337
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 3: that is very helpful for like all the back end tasks.

1338
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 3: Then I have a separate team that I hire that

1339
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 3: works on just my affiliate linking and anytime I'm doing

1340
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 3: shot my or like to Know It or anything like that.

1341
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 3: And then my talent management team which does all the

1342
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 3: brand deal stuff, the podcast team which is at Deer Media.

1343
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 3: I have like a little studio space where I live

1344
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 3: where that's the podcast is shot and edited through them.

1345
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 3: And then a lawyer who's on everything.

1346
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 1: But isn't it amazing?

1347
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 2: Like I feel like, and I know you just answered

1348
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 2: that same kind of question on your Q and A

1349
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 2: from this week, which, by the way, guys, we have

1350
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 2: to shout out Lucy's podcast because it is so good,

1351
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 2: But it really is amazing. Like as content creators, there

1352
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 2: are especially when you do a podcast and you do

1353
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 2: affiliate linking, you know, and you're using your putting stuff

1354
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 2: out on every single platform, there's just so many different

1355
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 2: avenues and teams that you do have to build out.

1356
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 3: And as I said in that podcast, one of the

1357
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 3: things I do is I am a coach for people

1358
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 3: who want to grow their social presence. My ideal client

1359
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 3: is someone who is some sort of entrepreneur. Maybe they're

1360
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 3: a real estate agent, or they have a storefront, or

1361
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 3: they're starting a new app or whatever, and they accept

1362
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 3: the fact that in twenty twenty five, if you have

1363
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 3: any job, you kind of need a social presence to

1364
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 3: get people in the door. And I work with people,

1365
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 3: and my first, you know, the most frequent thing I

1366
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 3: hear from people is I did not realize how much

1367
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 3: work this took to be a content creator. And I

1368
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 3: think that's because the land of Instagram for the masses

1369
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 3: is like they're after work playground where they go to

1370
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 3: have fun and they watch and they scroll and they

1371
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 3: see fun content from creators and they're like, this looks

1372
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 3: like a fun life, not realizing that that creator is

1373
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 3: planning and implementing and working. There's so much more that

1374
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 3: goes into it than just the fun posts that you

1375
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 3: popped on your Instagram. But there's strategy, and there's calendars

1376
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 3: and comments and so much to handle that it's really

1377
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 3: the first thing I hear from everyone when I'm working

1378
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 3: with them is like, Wow, I'm a little overwhelmed.

1379
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 2: Oh of course, I mean the content is so overwhelming.

1380
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 2: It kind of feels like you're on this constant treadmill

1381
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 2: that's very hard to get off of because once you do,

1382
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 2: you lose momentum. So it's like you have to really

1383
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,919
Speaker 2: stay on it. Content is exhausting. It's definitely a full

1384
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 2: time job, and when you're running your own business and

1385
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 2: you're the face of it, it's a challenge. Let's talk

1386
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 2: about this. What is inspiring you right now? Because you're

1387
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 2: a very curious person. I think we've learned that from

1388
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 2: this episode that Lucy is always like trying new.

1389
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: Things, thinking about new things, you know, So what is

1390
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: interesting you in life right now?

1391
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 2: You know?

1392
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 3: As I said, I'm doing this coaching where I'm working

1393
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 3: with people one on one, and for the first time ever,

1394
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 3: I'm starting to think that there could be a group

1395
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 3: coaching situation. I've always said no to group coaching, especially

1396
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 3: with content building, because I feel like it's so personalized

1397
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 3: and I love talking to people one on one and

1398
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 3: the advice I would give to a small batch ice

1399
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 3: cream maker versus a psychotherapist is very different. But I've

1400
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 3: been starting to think a lot about how there are

1401
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 3: lessons and takeaways and learnings that I could do still

1402
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 3: that's the same for everyone, and create some sort of

1403
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 3: a coaching group platform that's more accessible, like the price

1404
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 3: point for the individual coaching is way higher, but something

1405
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 3: that more people could afford. Because going back to what

1406
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 3: we talked about on the run. I feel like everyone

1407
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 3: has a story and everyone has a unique voice. And

1408
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 3: I hate when people talk about social media being oversaturated

1409
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 3: and there's no room in this niche or like there's

1410
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 3: too many people doing this. The fact is, if you

1411
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 3: want to start, say you want to start a beauty

1412
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 3: account today, and then you decide, nah, that's too saturated,

1413
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do it. I can tell you

1414
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 3: right now, between now and December of this year, there

1415
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 3: are going to be hundreds of new beauty accounts that

1416
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 3: pop up that become successful and popular, and yours could

1417
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 3: be one of those if you just commit to starting.

1418
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 3: But if you say it's saturated, of course you're not

1419
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 3: going to be one of the people. But there's always

1420
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 3: going to be new people popping up. We have proof

1421
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 3: now from the past ten years in the industry that

1422
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 3: there's enough space for new people to pop up, and like, yes,

1423
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 3: it's more saturated. People are following more people, people have

1424
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 3: more posts on their account. You know now my Instagram's

1425
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 3: like three thousand posts versus when I first started. But

1426
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 3: there's room and there's people that are looking.

1427
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 2: For whatever it is you have to share, and I

1428
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,360
Speaker 2: think that's great advice. And so many people are trying

1429
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 2: to break into this industry, so they do have to

1430
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 2: know that that, Yeah, even if the thing that you

1431
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 2: love to do maybe isn't so unique like something super

1432
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 2: super random, you know, there.

1433
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 1: Is still space for you.

1434
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 2: I figured it out within the running community and within

1435
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 2: the running space.

1436
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 3: There you go.

1437
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 2: When you first had Milo, your oldest child and your

1438
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,559
Speaker 2: son before Coco, who's your daughter, what was it like

1439
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 2: running your own business while also becoming a new mom.

1440
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 2: Because I've had some people on that are like I

1441
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 2: was doing a Jimmy John's ad in the delivery room,

1442
01:08:57,720 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 2: and then other people that are like, I've taken I

1443
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 2: took a little bit time off, you know, like what

1444
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 2: was that balance.

1445
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 1: Like for you?

1446
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 3: Yeah? He came three weeks early, so I was not

1447
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 3: mentally prepared. I hadn't wrapped up my projects, but I

1448
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 3: sort of just put everything on pause, and my team

1449
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 3: was really understanding, and I did take intentionally three months

1450
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 3: of I'm not going to do any brand deals in

1451
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 3: this time, and I actually was fully I was so

1452
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 3: uncertain about what having a kid was going to feel

1453
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 3: like for me. There was a part of me that

1454
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 3: kind of if I'm being honest. I think I hoped

1455
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 3: that when I had a kid, I would just be like,

1456
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 3: nothing matters now except for being a mom, and I'm

1457
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 3: just going to like give up social media and go

1458
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 3: live off the land and roam free in the countryside

1459
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:47,639
Speaker 3: and you know, grow my own food. Didn't happen.

1460
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:48,759
Speaker 1: You are growing your own foods.

1461
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 3: I am growing some food, that's true, but it's just

1462
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 3: not what happened. Like, I think I sort of hoped

1463
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,679
Speaker 3: my whole life being in this rat race of the city,

1464
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 3: thinking about having kid felt so comforting of like, well,

1465
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:04,640
Speaker 3: one day I'll get to that stage where none of

1466
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 3: this work stuff is going to matter because I'm going

1467
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:09,679
Speaker 3: to be a mom. And then I had him, and

1468
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 3: I took three months off of doing ads. But in

1469
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 3: that three months I was so creatively inspired to share

1470
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 3: what was actually happening in my life. So I say

1471
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:23,759
Speaker 3: both times my maternity leaves were my biggest growth drivers

1472
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 3: from my platform because it just gave me the space

1473
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 3: to create real, meaningful content about what was happening in

1474
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 3: my life. And both postpartum periods, I'm like so emotional

1475
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 3: that my content becomes so emotional. I was like getting

1476
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 3: really into making videos that were making me cry and

1477
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 3: other people cry, and it was like an art time

1478
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 3: for me. But I remember I took that time off

1479
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 3: and then on the back end of it, I was like, wait,

1480
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 3: I have this kid, and I love being a mom

1481
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,680
Speaker 3: and I'm loving this. Although I did go through I

1482
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 3: had some severe baby blues having a baby in the winter.

1483
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 3: I already have like seasonal effective disorder, and then with

1484
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 3: a new baby and saying inside for the whole month

1485
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 3: of November and December, it was a dark time.

1486
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 1: Lucy is such a ray of suntime that she needs

1487
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 1: to charge and no, I.

1488
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 3: Literally am a plant. Yeah, I need the sun, I

1489
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 3: swear to God. I bought a house based on where

1490
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 3: the sun came into the windows, and so it didn't

1491
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 3: have that in this New York City apartment where I

1492
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,759
Speaker 3: had myelow, and it was kind of a dark space.

1493
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 3: And then it was November and postpartum hormones and I

1494
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 3: was just in a dark place. But as soon as

1495
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 3: I emerged from that and we hired a part time

1496
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 3: nanny and I was like, I'm going to get back

1497
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 3: to work a little. I was shocked to find that

1498
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 3: my actual takeaway after having a kid was that I want.

1499
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,800
Speaker 3: I'm so creatively inspired and I actually work is more

1500
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 3: meaningful to me than ever. And it just didn't happen

1501
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:50,600
Speaker 3: the way I hoped it would or wanted it to,

1502
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 3: but I felt the complete opposite. I think a lot

1503
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 3: of people have a kid and then they're like, I

1504
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 3: actually don't want to work anymore. And I think that

1505
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 3: happens to a lot of people who are not super

1506
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 3: passionate about their job and they just have to go,

1507
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 3: and then they come out of their leave and they're

1508
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 3: like crying to leave their kid and they don't want

1509
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 3: to go. And I was like, not that I wanted

1510
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,599
Speaker 3: to get away from him, but I was like, this

1511
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 3: is filling me up so much. And I am so

1512
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 3: blessed that my family and my husband's family are local,

1513
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 3: so we have a lot of hands on. They're the

1514
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 3: first grandkids on both sides of the family, so a

1515
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:25,880
Speaker 3: lot of people to help. And we now have a

1516
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 3: full time nanny, and also our son is in a

1517
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:30,640
Speaker 3: school program five days a week, half the day, and

1518
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 3: it's I just love doing my job and working for myself,

1519
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 3: and I love when he sees me working and he

1520
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 3: knows what I do and he I mean as much

1521
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 3: as he can know. He thinks that mommy makes movies,

1522
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:45,760
Speaker 3: so I think he thinks I'm like Steven Spielberg or something.

1523
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 3: But I'm like, I'm making movies. And then I'll show

1524
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 3: him what I make and he's very into it. And

1525
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 3: I really love showing him that. When I go to work,

1526
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 3: I'm not like I have to go to work. I'm

1527
01:12:58,240 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 3: so sad, I don't want to go.

1528
01:12:59,640 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 1: I have to.

1529
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 3: I'm showing him like, this is what mommy wants to

1530
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 3: do right now, this is so Look how much fun

1531
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 3: this is. Look what I made, Look what I'm working on.

1532
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 3: Look what product we got through my job. And like

1533
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 3: I'm giving him things with his name on it. The

1534
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 3: brands are sending and he's like, where'd we get that?

1535
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 3: And I'm like, the company sent it, and it's exciting,

1536
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 3: and I'm just I've become super charged creative having kids

1537
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 3: in a way that I'm excited about. Of course, it's

1538
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 3: so much of a balance because the work week, I

1539
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 3: want to see them, but I feel like work. It's

1540
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 3: the best of both worlds. I'm working right from my home,

1541
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 3: so every time he's home from school, I see him.

1542
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:40,720
Speaker 3: I stop for an hour. I have lunch, she has

1543
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 3: a snack. We hang out, then he goes for his

1544
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 3: afternoon activity and say with my daughter. Now she's home

1545
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 3: all day, she takes her nap in the morning. When

1546
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 3: she wakes up and comes down, I'm right there and

1547
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 3: I can like I'm never doing anything that bars me

1548
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 3: from seeing them. If I have an important call, I'll

1549
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,599
Speaker 3: go in my room and close the door. Otherwise I'm

1550
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 3: very accessible. My husband's also working from home, so we're

1551
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 3: just like living in the house but both doing our

1552
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 3: jobs and getting to see the kids a fair amount.

1553
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:08,639
Speaker 3: And it's working really well right now.

1554
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 2: I love the concept that you just said, which is

1555
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 2: you get to show your kids that, yeah, work doesn't

1556
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 2: have to be a chore. You know.

1557
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 1: It's like it's exciting, like I chose what to do.

1558
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's also showing like even like you know,

1559
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 2: before work, for them, it's going to be school. It's

1560
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 2: also showing like mom loves learning and she loves learning

1561
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 2: about new people and hearing about what they do and

1562
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 2: learning their stories. So I don't know, there's a lot

1563
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 2: of good that's coming out of it. You've also gotten

1564
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 2: a lot deeper with your content. I think post becoming

1565
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 2: a mom and even pre becoming a mom, and maybe

1566
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 2: really as you started Lucyfink Media, and I wrote down

1567
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 2: a couple of things. But on your podcast, The Real

1568
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 2: Stuff with Lucy Fink and in your social content you've

1569
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 2: talked about breastfeeding, postpartum, hair loss, sex, marriage, identity. So

1570
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:54,880
Speaker 2: when did you feel the calling to go deeper?

1571
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:57,799
Speaker 3: You know, Refinary twenty nine, a lot of the content

1572
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:01,640
Speaker 3: was I would call it there kitchy or campy, or

1573
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 3: a lot of it was these trending challenges, like you're

1574
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 3: really trying to capitalize on what's the craziest thing I

1575
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 3: can do? Like two weeks of not washing my hair

1576
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:12,880
Speaker 3: or five days of beating nothing but pizza for every meal.

1577
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:16,679
Speaker 3: These are not you know, they're bringing people in because

1578
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:19,959
Speaker 3: of the wow factor of it. And even at Refinery

1579
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 3: twenty nine, I noticed after a bunch of those videos,

1580
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 3: that's when I got into wait, I really want to

1581
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 3: explore the wellness things and the lifestyle things that are

1582
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 3: calling to me. Honestly, when I went off on my

1583
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,639
Speaker 3: own and I had a kid, it was like, I

1584
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 3: am having all these deep thoughts and I'm starting to

1585
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 3: have other interests in my life aside from the like

1586
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:44,680
Speaker 3: clickbaity YouTube style stuff. So I really do want to

1587
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 3: go deeper and that was where my podcast really was

1588
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 3: born out of. Some of my favorite podcasts to listen

1589
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 3: to are therapy podcasts where it's like, you know, estare

1590
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 3: Perel or I love listening to her Meat Saeti and

1591
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,959
Speaker 3: his Mud Show where he literally brings on real couples

1592
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 3: who open up about every dollar they have and he

1593
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 3: helps them with their money mindset. And I was just like,

1594
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 3: I want to be having these conversations that are about

1595
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:14,839
Speaker 3: taboo topics. These are the topics I love talking about

1596
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 3: with my own friends and my family. And you know,

1597
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:21,599
Speaker 3: my dream night is like staying up late with cookies

1598
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 3: and milk and talking about the meaning of life. And

1599
01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:26,640
Speaker 3: I want to have if this is my dream to

1600
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:29,639
Speaker 3: do in real life, how can I translate this into

1601
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:33,599
Speaker 3: my work? And so the real stuff started as sex, money,

1602
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:35,840
Speaker 3: mental health. I want to bring people on and talk

1603
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:39,919
Speaker 3: about topics that they are never asked about on social media.

1604
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 3: If you listen to some of the earlier episodes, it's

1605
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 3: I'm asking a lot of these celebrities and influencers, how

1606
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 3: much money is your business making? How often are you

1607
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 3: and your partner having sex and listen. My whole thing

1608
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:54,479
Speaker 3: with the podcast is people have boundaries, and people don't

1609
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:56,640
Speaker 3: have to answer my questions. My goal is not to

1610
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,800
Speaker 3: make them spill things that they don't want to share.

1611
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:03,360
Speaker 3: But for people who don't want to share things for

1612
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 3: a reason, I find that interesting of what why is

1613
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 3: this taboo for you? Why do you feel uncomfortable? Why

1614
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 3: do you not want to talk about this on social media?

1615
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 3: I think probably the biggest explainer of like why I

1616
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,680
Speaker 3: wanted to do this podcast. I had this creator who

1617
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:19,880
Speaker 3: I really wanted to bring on the show. We finally

1618
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:21,559
Speaker 3: had a conversation about it, but at first she kept

1619
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:24,760
Speaker 3: saying no, no, no, no no, And I was like,

1620
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 3: why don't you want to talk about this? And she

1621
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 3: was like, I have a fear that if my audience

1622
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 3: knows how much money I'm making, they're not going to

1623
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 3: like me anymore. They're going to think I'm not relatable.

1624
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 3: And I was like, that's what I want you to

1625
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 3: say on the show. You don't need to come on

1626
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 3: and say I'm making eight hundred thousand a year, but

1627
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 3: can you come on and say that, because that's what

1628
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:47,959
Speaker 3: I want to hear. I think that's what people find interesting?

1629
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 2: What if you found is like a super taboo topic,

1630
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 2: and like what is the commonality as to why people

1631
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 2: don't want to talk about it?

1632
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 3: I think the money topic, Like a lot of people

1633
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:00,640
Speaker 3: are a lot of content creators that are have a

1634
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 3: big following, are doing really well, lucrative, you know, making

1635
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 3: a killing, And it's not that they're lying to their

1636
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 3: audience about that, but I think everyone's aware that it's

1637
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 3: like you, everyone wants to get there, and then you

1638
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,679
Speaker 3: get there, and everyone wants to take you off that pedestal,

1639
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 3: and so no one wants to calm out and feel

1640
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 3: everyone thinks that it sounds like they're bragging. One person

1641
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 3: who I completely agree with, and I understand, she was saying,

1642
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 3: I don't share money on my platform because my mission

1643
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:32,640
Speaker 3: and my message on my platform is x y Z

1644
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 3: and like money has nothing to do with it, and

1645
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:37,120
Speaker 3: I think that like dilutes my message and that I get.

1646
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 3: I think that's interesting too, Like that's what I want

1647
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:41,599
Speaker 3: to hear is the why. But a lot of these

1648
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 3: entrepreneurs and influencers, they're making so much money for one

1649
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 3: post and they don't want people in on that, Like

1650
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:52,720
Speaker 3: they kind of want to still play the role of relatable.

1651
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 3: Here's the discount deals, but then they're making seven figures.

1652
01:18:57,560 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 2: I guess my question then is like, why do you

1653
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:00,640
Speaker 2: think it's important to talk about it.

1654
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 3: I don't think it's important in that it's like a

1655
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 3: vital thing for everyone to be sharing. I guess I

1656
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 3: just have never really understood why it's so taboo or

1657
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 3: what the big deal is. Like if someone were to

1658
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 3: ask me how much I got paid for something or

1659
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:20,479
Speaker 3: how much money I made and something, I genuinely feel

1660
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 3: like it's as I'm as comfortable sharing that as telling

1661
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:25,840
Speaker 3: you what I had for breakfast, and to the point

1662
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:28,719
Speaker 3: of like going back to that stop motion artist. Without

1663
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 3: knowing what other people are charging for things, it's hard

1664
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:33,519
Speaker 3: for you to have any blueprint for what you could do.

1665
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 3: And not that anyone wants to, not that everyone wants

1666
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:39,800
Speaker 3: to be a creator, but even just like I find

1667
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:43,320
Speaker 3: that hearing of other women in any field who asked

1668
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 3: for more or got paid something to do something, it

1669
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 3: pushes me in it inspires me in a positive way.

1670
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:51,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think just shows me what's possible.

1671
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that part's very important also for

1672
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:56,559
Speaker 2: young professionals to know how to ask for more.

1673
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think, and for content creators, I just

1674
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 3: I think it's easy to look at content creators and

1675
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:05,639
Speaker 3: a lot I mean, even to this day, a lot

1676
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:09,040
Speaker 3: of people look at what I'm doing and they see

1677
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:13,160
Speaker 3: my platform, and their comment on it is that I

1678
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:15,479
Speaker 3: must be living off my husband, right, And I mean,

1679
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 3: you want people to know. It's like, I mean, part

1680
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 3: of me wants to. It kind of goes back to

1681
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 3: like I don't need to explain my life to everyone.

1682
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 3: I have said on my podcast that there have been

1683
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 3: years and times when I was the bigger breadwinner of

1684
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:30,559
Speaker 3: our family, and like it's like part of me wants

1685
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 3: people to know that, and then part of me is like,

1686
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 3: I don't need to prove myself to you. But it's

1687
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 3: also I do want to make it clear to people

1688
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 3: that not just me, but that females specifically, content creation

1689
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 3: is a heavily female dominated space and no wonder people

1690
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 3: shit on it. Because I just heard someone someone just

1691
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 3: said this on my podcast Stay at Home Moms and

1692
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 3: content creation are like the two heavily female spaces, and

1693
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 3: both of them people say it's not a real job,

1694
01:20:56,479 --> 01:20:59,840
Speaker 3: and both of them are hard jobs. So I don't

1695
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 3: know It's not that I need to prove it to people, but.

1696
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 2: I think it's good that you talk about it. Yeah, No,

1697
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:06,839
Speaker 2: I like your perspective on it. When I first started

1698
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 2: like making money on social media, I had no idea

1699
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:11,759
Speaker 2: what I could charge until my agent started charging stuff

1700
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:13,280
Speaker 2: for me and I was like, whoa, that's like way

1701
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 2: different things.

1702
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what I thought.

1703
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,799
Speaker 2: You have evolved so much as a creator over the years.

1704
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 2: So when I was listening to your podcast the other day,

1705
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 2: I heard that you eventually would be interested in writing books, right,

1706
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 2: and you know, doing more in that space. So like,

1707
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:30,160
Speaker 2: what are you currently really excited about what's coming out?

1708
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:31,800
Speaker 1: You know, what should we be on the lookout for.

1709
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:36,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, so my dream, that's kind of always been my dream,

1710
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 3: but I definitely put it on pause in my baby

1711
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 3: making years. It just wasn't feasible, and also COVID and

1712
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,800
Speaker 3: whatever in that time. But it's kind of coming back now. Really,

1713
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 3: my dream is to host an unscripted TV show. When

1714
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 3: I say unscripted, I don't really mean like reality, none

1715
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:59,840
Speaker 3: of that. I want to host a show like dirty Jobs.

1716
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:02,759
Speaker 3: I mean that sort of show is really what Lucy

1717
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 3: for Hire was based on. Yeah, and I think a

1718
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:10,040
Speaker 3: show like that, where it's someone going around human interest stories,

1719
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:12,719
Speaker 3: showing people behind the curtain of things that they've never seen,

1720
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 3: taking people inside cool experiences around the world. That's still

1721
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 3: my dream hosting gig, and I want to be doing

1722
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 3: it on a platform that's not mine. So ideally I

1723
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 3: want to be hosting a Netflix show. I would say TV,

1724
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 3: but I don't know what's happening in the TV landscape.

1725
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 3: But right now I'm having a lot of meetings with

1726
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:34,600
Speaker 3: production companies and streaming services and I'm just trying to

1727
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 3: get the lay of the land of how people are

1728
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:40,559
Speaker 3: getting shows greenlit and what's happening. Because that's even though

1729
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:45,040
Speaker 3: the ad sponsored content right now is the backbone of

1730
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,479
Speaker 3: my business and it's lucrative and it's doing well, and

1731
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 3: I basically don't need to do anything to keep that alive.

1732
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:53,799
Speaker 3: It's like I just keep showing up and the brands

1733
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:59,160
Speaker 3: are there. That's not my dream to do forever. And really,

1734
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:02,000
Speaker 3: as I said, I thrive when I'm being filmed and

1735
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:06,919
Speaker 3: being on camera, so I want to host unscripted TV content.

1736
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 3: Aside from that, I did have an experience a few

1737
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:14,400
Speaker 3: years ago. I wrote a proposal of our book that

1738
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:16,840
Speaker 3: it kind of got changed from what I wanted it

1739
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:19,719
Speaker 3: to be. And it was so funny because the feedback

1740
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 3: we got from the publishing houses was that they wanted

1741
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 3: it to be something different, and what they wanted it

1742
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 3: to be was what I had initially wanted it to be.

1743
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,000
Speaker 3: So I think I'm going to go back to that concept.

1744
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 3: And like I ended up being a creative writing major

1745
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 3: at Johns Hopkins, so I love writing, and I think

1746
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 3: I always knew I would write a book, So I

1747
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 3: think I will.

1748
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:40,200
Speaker 1: Do things I didn't know if you ended up changing

1749
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 1: your major.

1750
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:43,000
Speaker 3: I changed my major to creative writing and then just

1751
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:47,240
Speaker 3: did the video stuff extracurricularly. But I really do want

1752
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 3: to write a book. I want to host a show,

1753
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 3: and I want to work because I got my start

1754
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,559
Speaker 3: in advertising. One thing that's funny about the content creation

1755
01:23:55,640 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 3: world and working with brands, as I'm sure you've noticed,

1756
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:00,599
Speaker 3: is the moment you start working with brands, the comments

1757
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 3: start rolling in about being a sellout and oh now

1758
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 3: your whole platforms ads or you just work with brands.

1759
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:09,840
Speaker 3: And I don't think it's ever cross people's minds that

1760
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 3: like some of us like making commercials, like I worked

1761
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 3: in advertising. I came from this space. My choice is

1762
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:18,280
Speaker 3: to work with a brand. There are plenty of ways

1763
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:20,799
Speaker 3: that I could monetize my platform without working with brands.

1764
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:22,880
Speaker 3: If I wanted to put my stuff behind a paywall,

1765
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:25,360
Speaker 3: if I wanted to make a Patreon, if I wanted

1766
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 3: to sell merch, if I wanted to do a handful

1767
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,759
Speaker 3: of things. I could declare I don't work with brands,

1768
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:33,120
Speaker 3: but I love working with brands, and I to me like,

1769
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 3: anytime I have a shoot day with a brand, it's

1770
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:37,599
Speaker 3: a great day. So I love doing that.

1771
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:40,040
Speaker 1: It's fun to get a creative brief coming from working.

1772
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 3: Out, and I love having calls with brands and telling

1773
01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 3: them what's going to work. And a lot of brands

1774
01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 3: need education on what they're asking for, and then what

1775
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:51,000
Speaker 3: I give them is like different from what they wanted,

1776
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 3: but then they're excited about it and it does well.

1777
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 3: So I love doing that and I'm excited to keep

1778
01:24:56,479 --> 01:25:01,240
Speaker 3: doing that. But I just feel like the lifestyle content

1779
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:03,000
Speaker 3: that I was doing back in the day and that

1780
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 3: I want to be getting back into now is really

1781
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 3: where my heart is.

1782
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 1: Well. I am so excited to see what you continue

1783
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 1: to do. Guys. If you didn't tell.

1784
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 2: Lucy is just an example of what happens when you

1785
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:15,680
Speaker 2: just keep moving. It's going to be so cool to

1786
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:18,240
Speaker 2: see what you go on to do, and hopefully see

1787
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:20,960
Speaker 2: you host a show. I mean, that would be wild.

1788
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:22,559
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being here.

1789
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:24,479
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, so good to meet you.

1790
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 2: Thank you, guys so much for listening to today's episode

1791
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 2: with Lucy. This was definitely one of my favorite conversations

1792
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:34,160
Speaker 2: so far. I left feeling so inspired and calm, and

1793
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:36,880
Speaker 2: I am definitely going to come back to this episode

1794
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:39,280
Speaker 2: when I need to hear it. So I hope it

1795
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:41,679
Speaker 2: was the same for you. If you guys are enjoying

1796
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:44,000
Speaker 2: Post Run High, please be sure to follow us on

1797
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 2: socials at Post Run High and me at Kate Max and.

1798
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 1: Leave us a five star review.

1799
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:53,480
Speaker 2: Your support helps us continue bringing you inspiring conversations.

1800
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:54,920
Speaker 1: All right, I'll see you next week.

1801
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 3: Abou