WEBVTT - Why don't men ask follow up questions? 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.240 I'm Manny Noah, and this is no such thing. The 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.600 show where we settle our dumb arguments and yours by 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:11.440 actually doing the research. On today's episode, we're asking why 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.040 men don't ask follow up questions. We're gonna be talking 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.919 to masculinity expert Liz Plank, who helps Noah, Devon and 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.000 I figure out how much we actually know about each other. 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.720 You should know who their axes like, who their like 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:25.880 last breakup was with. 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:34.440 That's interesting and gives us a very special assignment. There's 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:49.960 no no such thing such thing. All right, boys, I 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:55.240 think we're all congested up today. Apologies to the listeners. 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.360 Sounds sexy today, sound a little nasty. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.080 It is funny. We're all how did this happen? At 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:03.440 the same time. I haven't seen you guys. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:04.920 In a while, and then it's been a minute. 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:09.640 I wanted to start off this episode by playing a TikTok. 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:11.199 I'm going to order a beerd woman. 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:12.000 Now, I'm good. 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:16.039 I just got out of rehab, right, Okay, So how Samantha, 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:17.080 how's married life? 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:17.640 Oh? 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:19.880 I didn't tell you we got divorced. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:23.120 You want to put together like a little parlay for 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:23.600 this weekend? 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:24.240 Hell? Yes? 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:26.440 What do you want to do It's like fifty dollars something. 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:29.920 I just got fired from the firm last week. Maybe 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:31.800 it was two twenty five. Fuck it, Fuck it, dude, 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:33.479 I got hit by a city bus last month. 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:34.600 All had the settlement. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:35.280 Money just came in. 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:35.840 I got you. 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:41.840 Yeah. So that video is a joke, obviously it's hyperbolized. Yeah, 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:45.880 but it's still resonated with me because I've definitely been 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:50.320 there before, Like I've like we have male friendships like this. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.560 I would like to think that the three of us 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:58.320 are like a different breed of man, like a morse, 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.800 like a like more sensitive, I think than the average person. 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.600 Who we do ask each other follow up questions. We 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.760 care about what's happening in our lives. But I do 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.160 have friends like friends I would consider close friends, and 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:14.840 I know what they do in work, but I don't know, 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.840 I couldn't name like the name of their company, for example, 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.639 do you guys run into this, Like what what's your 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:23.359 experience with this kind of phenomenon? 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:25.960 Watching that video, I was thinking, like last week I 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:27.840 was I had a call with a friend of ours 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.160 that we used to work with, and you know, then 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.320 we're just chatting and and he was like, oh yeah, 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.680 like you know, like my wife's having our second kid 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:39.440 in April. And it was like he was like, oh yeah, 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:41.040 I wasn't sure if I mentioned that or not. And 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:43.560 it was like, oh, like that's a pretty big big 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:47.080 thing for me to not know and happening soon. And 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:48.959 you know, to be fair, it's not like we I 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.440 don't chat with him every week or as frequently, like, yeah, 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:52.920 that was one of you guys having a. 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:54.320 Kid in three months. 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.160 Yeah, I'd be shocked for It's like, oh, yeah, I 0:02:58.160 --> 0:02:59.959 guess it just means we don't really talk that much. 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.440 Yeah, do you guys have like close friends who you 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.960 think this kind of applies to this, this phenomenon, I 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:07.720 guess you'd call it. 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:09.880 I don't like the prize, so I think it's different. 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.560 If it comes up in conversation, I will ask follow 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.960 up questions if that person brings it up themselves, yeah yeah. 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.040 But if someone doesn't come to me with the information, 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.360 I'm not someone who's gonna ask that question. That's like 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.120 going to make somebody uncomfortable. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:24.680 That that's exactly how I feel, And I think that's 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.480 to me, that's what it is, Like, I'm. 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.720 Overall a pretty live and let live sort of. 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.680 Yeah, guys, So it's like if someone wants to talk 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.880 to me about something serious or whatever, like whatever, Like 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:40.000 I hope I'm receptive and you know, someone they'd feel 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.920 comfortable talking to me about anything. Yeah, but like, yeah, 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:44.400 I don't want to put someone on the spot in 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.840 that way if they don't want to open up to 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.520 me in that way, because that's how I kind of 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.320 feel where and sometimes there's things where it is helpful 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:52.160 for someone to kind. 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:53.760 Of push you, yeah, to be like it. 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.400 Yeah, I mean this is just it is good usually 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.880 to listen, yeah, be pushed into maybe an uncomfortable conversation 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:01.320 of course, and open. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:01.760 Up in that way. 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:06.360 But yeah, like in a normal setting, it's it is uncomfortable, 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:08.160 and I don't want to put that on someone else. 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.240 To do it, like if they don't want to naturally. 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.760 You know, how much of this do you think is gendered? 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.960 Like the other day, I was listening to my girlfriend 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:22.680 talk on the phone with her sisters about I don't know, 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.200 like our week, and she was really going into detail 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.679 about certain things that I was like, no, not nothing 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.599 like offensive, but no, no, it was just like oh wow, 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:34.440 And then I thought about if I talked to my 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.200 siblings and they asked me how my week went, I'd 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.080 be like, it was good, it went to work, Yeah, yeah, 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:41.000 everything was fine. 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:41.799 Oh yeah. 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:43.279 I noticed this all the time. 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.480 When I talk to my mom, she tells details about 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:48.280 like what she's done for today, or just like a 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.520 story at least sometimes I'm like, okay, I don't even. 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:53.440 Know that level of detail. 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:58.160 Yeah, but she yeah, she'll go into she'd be like, oh, yeah, 0:04:58.240 --> 0:04:59.640 you know, I pulled them in the park lot and 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:01.440 then this thing happened, and then I was talking to 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:05.280 this person and they said this thing. And to your point, 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.320 when I'm talking to people, like if people are I'm 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.279 like kind of straight into the point because I'm always 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.720 thinking they don't care about this. Yeah, let me just 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.359 say what's essential. I think you know, this is you know, 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:21.840 broad strokes. We understand stereotyping, but I think women generally 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:27.960 are more specific in their storytelling and and the questions 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.240 that they asked, the follow ups that sort of thing, 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.039 and guys are just short of what what what do 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:32.640 I need to know? 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:38.480 Yeah, and contextualizing things before the story even begins. 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.840 Yes, So like I run into this a lot with my. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.800 Sister or with me, where like there's a lot of 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.080 like lore that happens first and then you get the 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.920 story that whereas I would just start for exactly the 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.320 beginning of the story before we. 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:53.760 Even get into it. You got to know that, like. 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:56.799 Yeah, yeah, but then it's ends up being helpful. 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.839 It's like much better storytellers that. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:00.240 No. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.800 Yeah, I've definitely had a like similar situations where you know, 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.640 I'm hanging out with some guy friend and then I 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.520 go home and you know, I'm talking to my girlfriend 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.800 and I'm you know, say, oh, like he told me 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.440 this about X y Z. And then she's like, oh, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.200 and what about you know, a normal follow up and 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.040 it's like, yeah, I don't know, I didn't ask kind 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:21.520 of none of my business, I guess, but. 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:23.839 Yeah, maybe you can find out when he's. 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:26.799 Maybe you can ask the followup questions. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.159 We all getdrinks together, and yeah, we can get to 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:30.920 the bottom of Yah, it's like didn't come up. 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.880 So you know, it's not just a meme, right, there's 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.560 like a lot of a lot of literature on this. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:48.160 As a few examples, Bustle dot com head why don't 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.480 men ask me more questions on dates? So there we've 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.520 been talking about conversations with friends, but a lot of 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.960 this phenomenon seems to be in the dating world. Uh, 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.120 San Diego Magazine, Why don't men ask questions on apps? 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:01.800 Courts? 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.160 The gendered way we ask questions is terrible for both 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:08.400 men and women. And so it's definitely something that's like 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:10.280 real and happening. 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.600 I feel most of the conversation or literature I've seen 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.239 around this has been more so in terms of dating. 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:19.480 I've seen less sort of. 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:26.720 Conversations around well until more recently friendships, which I find 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:27.840 to be more interesting. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:28.280 I think. 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:29.440 I don't know. For me, it's like the. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.440 Dating thing is just so many, so easy to ask 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.680 follow us because you don't know anything about this person. 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:35.160 That's all you have. 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:37.800 Yes, that's more confusing to me. 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:42.840 So you're you're either monologuing yes and not asking anything 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.120 about the other person or yeah, I mean yeah, it's 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.520 like there's not really much else you can do, and 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.840 one person is just gonna literally talk the entire time, 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:53.600 which happens, I suppose. 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.200 And look, and maybe we should get people who have 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.880 dated or went on dates of all of us. Yeah, response, 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.280 because obviously we're biased, because we're saying. 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:05.400 Oh, on dates, we all ask follow up questions. 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.440 Yeah, but it's us. Well, I certainly remember, like years ago, 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.280 I was we didn't even go on a date, but 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.760 I was we were like kind of it was leading 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.520 to a date, I think. And I remember, uh, that 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.840 woman telling a friend of mine that I talked too 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.000 much or something in our in our interaction. Oh, but 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.640 then I remember, I just remembered it totally differently. So 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.040 just to your point about like the bias that we 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.640 have in our own heads, we're probably so interesting to 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:33.199 ourselves in our heads. 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.440 Maybe the people were dating or like these dudes don't 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:36.720 ask any following Yeah. 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.160 Yeah, And I think there's probably something to it where 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.320 in a dating scenario where you don't know the other person, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.200 I can think of dates I've been on where I 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:48.360 think I've overtalked in a way because the other person 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.439 seems to not be maybe giving me anything. So it's like, well, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.160 that's just what it is, and then got nothing you know, spoiler, 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:59.839 that's not the my girlfriend. Yeah, so you know it's 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:02.839 you know, and like or it's like you're so worried 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.040 about not about being the person who doesn't talk that 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.080 then you go too much in the other direction. 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.559 And the other reason I'm more interested in this dynamic 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.760 when it comes to friends than dating is because dating 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.920 it there's so many variables of like people are nervous 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.760 on dates, they might be doing things they wouldn't normally 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.559 do when you're when if it's your friend who you've 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.840 known for years and you still aren't asked follow up questions, 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.400 it becomes a little more interesting. There's certainly, like I'm 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.200 sure we all have this where we have different like 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.319 tiers of friends or like caliber friend Like there are 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:39.480 friends you have where you go for a drink and 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:41.960 get into deep stuff. You have other friends where you're like, 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:43.640 I want to want to watch the game tonight or 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.679 something like that, and so you know, there's all these 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:48.760 different roles in dynamics being played. 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:50.600 Well, yeah, there's a time and place for things too. 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.520 I mean that's a lot of it too, where it's like, yeah, 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:55.720 of course it's great to everyone should have some people 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.400 they can open up to and talk to. At the 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.880 same time, you don't want to be the guy who 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:04.200 every time you're getting dinner, now it's like you're hearing 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.280 all my drama and my deep. 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.440 You know, it's like not everyone needs to be that 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:12.319 for every person, or should. 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.800 Be so as a little as a little uh game. 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.719 I guess if I told you, guys, uh that I 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.280 just got out of the hospital, what would you what 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:22.280 would your reaction be? 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:23.760 Damn? 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:27.439 Yeah, No, I'm doing all right. 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:28.600 What happened? 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:29.640 Uh? 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:30.880 Got in a car accident? 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:32.679 Yeah? 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:36.000 So these are you guys are close enough to asking 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.000 follow up questions? You're not just like, damn, I'm sorry. 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.040 And then that's where the conversation ends. I just wanted 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:42.839 to test. 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:43.640 You, guys. 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.880 Great does I'll be throwing a real one out in 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:48.640 real life somewhere. Yeah. 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.560 Yeah, in a while, do a project veritasas. 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.000 All right, we will be talking to Liz Plank. 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:57.440 Uh. 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.480 She's an expert in many things, but for the purposes 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.520 of this episode today, she's an expert on men in masculinity. 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.360 She's got a famous book, I would consider it famous 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.600 by now, called for the Love of Men From Toxic 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.880 to a More Mindful Masculinity. And she's gonna hopefully break 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:16.959 this down for us. That's after the break. 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:23.040 Can you guys hear me? Now? 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:25.760 Hey, good you too. 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.640 First of all, thank you for doing this. Huge helps us. 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:32.640 We brought you on for this central question why don't 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.640 men ask follow up questions? But first, I was curious 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.760 in your experience, how have you dealt with this? Have 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.400 you run into this in your personal life? Are there 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.360 any notable incidents that you can remember? 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.760 Like far too many probably to recall, if I'm gonna 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.440 be honest, if you're a woman going on. 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.920 Dates with men, I think particularly it is just yeah, 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.719 part of a part of the ex I think, to 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.760 become like a late night host, like where you're just like, okay, 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.360 I guess I'm David Letterman, like I'm just gonna ask 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.319 you questions and make you feel great about your life, 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:17.720 and while I just entertain an audience that doesn't exist and. 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.680 Get absolutely nothing in return. I think in terms of 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.319 first dates, it is just so rampant. I think it's 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.920 it's a real epidemic of like going on a date 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.880 and then leaving and being like, Wow, this man does 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.400 not know a thing about me and like and and 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.360 had a great time, which which you would have a 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.560 great time, right if if you just talk about yourself, 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:44.360 I'm sure you'd all have a great time. But who Yeah, 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:45.839 when they want to go on a second date, you're 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:47.680 like that was great. You're like, what was it? 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:49.160 Do you like? 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:51.640 Tell me one thing? Like you want to quiz them 0:12:52.920 --> 0:13:01.520 you get one reason why they like you? Do guys 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:02.560 think about that on dates. 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:05.400 I've been out of the game, so to speak, for 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.040 a while, but yeah, like back in, you know, in 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.160 that time. I think I would notice on the few 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.880 occasions where I felt like I've talked too much, I 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:15.800 would notice, like when it was too late, I guess, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.720 like towards towards the end of a spiel or something 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:20.040 like that. I'd be like, oh, wait a second, I 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.960 gotta take a step back. For anyone who's listening, who 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.480 would like to hear like a bit of advice about 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.880 what to do if they're in that situation, if they're 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:29.800 on a date with a guy and they just are like, 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.040 oh my god, I can't believe this. What should they do? 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:33.839 What should they say? 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:40.240 Something that I think women, you know, could do better, right, 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.680 and and sort of practice is like being being less 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.760 people pleasing, right, and being less focused on making the 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:52.120 other person comfortable over their own comfort. Right. So I 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.640 think that if you're not having a good time, if 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.120 you're bored, don't hide it, you know, because I think 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.760 so many times, especially with think when I was younger, 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.680 I would just kind of like still keep like a 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.160 smile and like just again keep throwing questions even though 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:10.640 I was pissed. And Yeah, like I noticed that with 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.840 age and with time, Like if I did act the 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.360 way that I felt, which was like I'm a little 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.199 bored right now, I'd like look down at the menu 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:20.400 or look at my I wouldn't look at my phone, 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.800 like I wouldn't do something as rude as that, but 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.840 sort of like not act super interested if I'm not 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.480 super interested in your answer at this point, I think 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.240 that would be like my recommendation of just being like truthful. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.800 We've established that this is happening in like people's dating lives, 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.720 but it also seems to be a phenomenon in conversations 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.080 from one man to another man like who are friends? 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:57.040 And I'm curious do do men and women behave differently 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.960 in conversation? Like do we have different goals? 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:00.320 Goals? 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:01.520 What? 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:05.000 What has your experience and your expertise told you about 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:06.120 that kind of dynamic. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.600 Yeah, there's this you know concept that women tend to 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.040 have face to face friendships and men have uh sort 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.880 of side to side friendships. So it's the idea that 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.280 you know, women usually will tend to go to brunch together, 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.680 go to dinner, you know, do get smoothie and be 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.000 face to face and really be connecting, I think in 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.160 a more intimate way. And men tend to go see 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.480 you know, like a basketball game, or they go to 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.240 the bar and they're sitting at the bar right so 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.880 they're not facing each other. They're actually like shoulder to shoulder. 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.320 And so the yeah, level of intimacy I think is 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.760 is very often different if you're engaging from that, you 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:57.160 know perspective. So I think that it is harder for 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:01.880 men to go deep, you know, with other men. 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.480 One thing you said that kind of blew my mind 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.520 is that concept of face to face versus side by side, 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.000 because now I'm like thinking back on like most of 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.200 my friendships with men, and it is like we're always 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.920 there's like some central thing happening that we're both experiencing 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.320 versus you know, sitting across from each other at a 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.880 table and talking. We'll be seeing it watching a game 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.320 or a movie or something like that. 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.040 Do you think it would be weird if you were like, 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.400 do you want to get dinner instead? Like, do you 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:38.880 think that that would be difficult? 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.120 There are a few people, a few men in my 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.480 life who I could go to dinner with or go 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:45.320 grab a drink where we're sitting across from each other, 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:49.200 but like the vast majority, you know, I would be like, yeah, 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:53.040 there needs to be a basketball game. Why? 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.440 Why? Why? I think is it safer? 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.600 Like when you're at a dinner, it's like you and 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.840 the other that is the entertainment for tonight. And if 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.200 you don't have anything to say, you can't just be like, well, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.440 we're just going to be silent and watch this thing happening. 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:13.440 I can't just like list basketball players. Yeah, well you can. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:14.840 Yeah. 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:19.560 Yeah. There's this sort of ranking, right that is inherently 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.600 there in all of these conversations that somehow like female 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.439 friendship is sort of better than that male friendship, right 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:29.000 because it's more intimate because it's face to face. And 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:34.280 I think that there are also downsides to some of 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:38.240 the I think female friendships are like very intense. I 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.200 don't want to say I don't want to talk about 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.240 how I'm feeling right now, Like there's a lot of 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.399 heavy things going on and I don't really and I 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.520 know that if I meet up with a female friend, 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:49.120 she's going to ask me how I'm doing, She's gonna 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.439 ask me follow up questions. She's if I just like 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.919 brush it off and give her a vague, you know, 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.280 superficial answer, like it's probably not going to be enough. 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.600 And I think that there are also downsides to the intensity, 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.920 where you know, they're like there's way more friendship breakups 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.480 with women, like you'll very rarely, like like there's a 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.800 whole Roman Empire friend right that men think about the 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.840 Roman Empire like so often. And this guy like asked 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.159 his girlfriend, like, what's your Roman Empire? And she was like, 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.400 my ex best friend, and like every woman was like, yes, 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.120 like god's my Roman Empire because we all And I think, 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:27.440 like men don't necessarily like have an ex best friend, 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:29.000 but like almost every woman does. 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:31.640 Yeah, there's this kind of consensus that it's a lot 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.359 easier for two men to become friends than it is 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:38.520 for women. But that actually makes sense if the depth 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.879 of that friendship is very surface level. It feels like 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:47.720 Toddler's becoming friends versus a very intentional interaction that you 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:48.159 want to have. 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.080 It's like you're at the you know, like you're at 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:51.879 the park and you're like, well, we both like this 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:57.080 slide friends, Yeah, let's meet up and like go down 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.679 the slide. And then sometimes we won't like go down 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:01.560 the slide for you know, a couple of months. But 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.439 that's fine because I don't expect to do anything with 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.240 you besides like going down the slide, Whereas. 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.000 With women, it's like, why haven't you gone down the slide? 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.520 Why aren't you here? Like are you mad at me? Like, 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.360 let's talk about it, let's meet up outside of the slide, 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.520 like it just would be Again, it's very I would 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:24.240 never like ever want to trade places, but I like, 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.720 I really value those friendships. They're so they're so intimate, 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.720 and I think sometimes actually like female friendships are so 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:38.199 rich and so intimate and you feel so supported that 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:41.000 it can make relationships with men harder because you're like, 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.960 no man will ever compare right, And in a way, 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.120 I think that it's important for women to not compare 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.439 right like that. We I think we do again not 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:53.320 to generalize it all men are one way or all 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.480 women are one way, but I do think that men, yeah, 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.679