WEBVTT - The Struggle for Abortion Rights in Mexico 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:07.760 Welcome to Dick. It happened here, a show that is 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.720 currently taking place in the death abortion rights in the US. 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:18.560 And yeah, it's not good um with me to talk 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:24.160 about this is Sharne, Is Sophie, Is Garrison, and is 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.720 Robert Evans And okay, so what one of one of 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.880 the things that's been happening in the immediate wake of 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:36.000 of the Supreme Court decision that has destroyed Review Wade 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.200 is there's been a lot of discussion about the abortion 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:40.760 rights movement in Mexico. And by discussion, I mean in 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:45.160 sort of classical American fashion, people saw exactly one meme 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.440 and reposted it and that's now the sum of like 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.879 all American knowledge about the abortion struggle in Mexico. So 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.360 to try to get a deeper understanding of what's been 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.040 going on in Mexico and how the struggle for abortion 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.600 was one there we're talking into Erica Yamada, who's a 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:05.160 feminist and human rights activist born and raised in Mexico. Erica, 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.120 thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, thank you, 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.640 thank you so much. Chris sharing so Figarrison, and Robert. 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:17.000 I'm so honored and excited to be here and very 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.120 grateful to be considered to share about the struggle for 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:26.000 abortion rights in Mexico. So before starting this discussion, I 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.760 would like to share a little bit about myself and 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:33.080 the organization I work in to have some background about 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:37.880 the experiences and data I will be communicating in this space. 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:43.080 UM I have been involved in many agendas for girls 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:47.400 and women's rights for approximately eight years now. I am 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:51.360 currently part of the Woman Delivered twenty class and I 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:57.040 also work in the non governmental organization Gender Quality, Citizenship, 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.720 Work and Family that has over twenty five years of 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:06.960 experience working for sexual and reproductive rights in Mexico, particularly 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:12.880 for the access to legal and safe abortion. Our organization 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:18.000 promotes and advocate for the sexual and reproductive health and 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:23.560 right of use through that they said that they set 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.359 is the network for sexual and reproductive rights in Mexico 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.480 that has presence in tolve states and we focus mainly 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:39.040 on marginalized communities. We support children, use women, and advocate 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:43.720 for change at local, regional, and national level and their 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:50.200 access is contributing to the criminalize abortion, guarantee access to 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:56.960 health services, and generate a favorable public opinion about women's 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:01.399 right to decide. We are also part of the national 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:07.280 co Choice Alliance in Mexico and effort of bi organizations, 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:14.600 General Equality, the Population Council EPAS Central America, Catholics for 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:18.600 the Right to Decide and heat it, each with different 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:25.320 expertise regarding abortion. Together we have worked on comprehensive strategies 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:32.480 that include the legal, the social, religious, ethical and investigation 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:39.320 aspects of abortion and well. I would like to start 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:43.960 up like sharing some of the context and the legal 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:48.920 situation of abortion in Mexico if it's okay or or 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:56.920 in our country, Voluntary abortion UH during the twelve weeks 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:02.800 of pregnancy is legalized only in certain states. Mexico City, 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.400 the capital, was the only state in the whole country 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:12.360 that they criminalized abortion in two thousand seven. Twelve years later, 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.720 in two thousand nineteen, the state of of Wahaca became 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:22.920 the second state twenty shure access to this health service. Afterwards, 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:28.400 two thousand twenty one was historic. It was a very 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:34.520 very historic year. It was UH for states Evalue Vera, 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:40.640 Cruz Bacca, California and Polyma also the criminalized abortion. Then 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:45.240 this year two thousand twenty two, three other states have 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:52.680 been added to this list, Sinaloa, Guerrero and California. This 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:57.640 means nine out of thirty two states have the criminalized abortion. 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.920 In the other aids of the Mexican Republic, abortion is 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:08.600 only allowed under certain grounds established by the law of 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:13.120 each entity. For example, if it was this contaneous abortion, 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:18.839 if the pregnancy was due to non consensual insemination, if 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:24.040 the woman's life is in danger of death, if the 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:31.240 product pass serious genetic alterations, if the pregnancy causes health effects, 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:36.560 among other reasons. It depends on each Plano code of 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:42.479 each state. And I also must add that pregnancy due 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.960 to rate is the only indication that permits legal abortion 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:52.119 in all states. And now coming back to what Chris 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.960 said that there was like a mean I think, uh, 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:02.920 you refer to the name of the public protest. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:08.440 the black clad female protesters attacking is it. I couldn't tell. 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:10.480 I don't recall if it's a city hall or a 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:15.839 police station or something. I have also seen some of 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:20.599 these media reports that that they say that we achieve 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:26.479 legal abortion thanks to these verdical public demonstrations, and well, 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:31.640 it is undeniable that among the most significant achievements is 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:37.040 the grow mobilization of feminists and women to eradicate violence 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:43.400 and land justice Mexico. Mexico has demonstrated the world the 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:48.479 revolutionary progress with the mass feminist protests and this image 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:53.440 is from two thousand nineteen. It was a huge feminist 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:58.400 protest that are condemned violence against women, especially sexual and 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:03.800 feminist side violence, police brutality, and the in tunity that 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:09.360 premiers the governmental system. We received a lot of international 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.680 media attention and it has been one of the like 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:18.240 the recent highlights of the feminist movement in our country. 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:25.120 But like the struggle for abortion entails so much more. 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.880 And yes it did have some influence. For example, in 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:34.840 two thousand twenty, feminists in two states, Quintana and Puebla, 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:40.920 took their local congresses and demanded the discussion of abortion initiatives, 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:45.360 and they have put this agenda on the table. It 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:51.000 is worth mentioning that the struggle for abortion that it 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:57.320 goes back so many years. Feminists have been fighting for 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:02.160 reproductive rights, including the access to legal abortion for that. 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:08.080 It's now the progress regarding this struggle has unfolded historically 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:13.520 during these recent years. For many other reasons. One thing 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:15.920 I want to go back to a little bit to 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.040 talk about is you were talking about the protests being 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:24.480 pro abortion protests but also talking about antifemicide and anti 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:27.400 violent stuff. And I was wondering if you could talk 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.360 about the antifemicide it campaigns too, because that's been a 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.680 really big part of this that gets basically no coverage 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:40.520 in the US. Well, in Mexico, eleven women are murdered 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:47.000 every day. We have a huge femicide problem that has 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:52.480 been silenced by the government, even by the president who 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:59.680 minimizes this horrible situation. So in two thousand nineteen there 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:07.320 was uh uh emblematic case where police officers m rape 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:13.480 and tortured a girl and that's how this protest UH 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:19.240 started And since all the two thousand nineteen, like most 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:30.640 feminist protests, have been regarding the violence against women. But UH, 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:35.240 I would also like to add about the struggle for abortion. 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.320 I think that in the global cells, the mari the 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:47.920 green type it played like the most fundamental roles. UH. 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.320 This movement, which came from Argentina, is one of the 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:57.160 main successes that strengthened the struggle for abortion rights and 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:02.680 even the feminist movement in Mexico. It expanded in many 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:07.160 countries including Mexico. Here we have a national Green Tide 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.120 and many local Green type books in all of our states, 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:16.320 and these collectives have played a large role demanding social 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:22.440 and legal decriminalization of abortion across the country. And there 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:29.440 is also an increase of networks that provides self managed 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:35.720 abortion information and accompaniment services, which have contributed to fighting 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:40.520 the stigma that still surrounds abortion. And the Green Tide 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:45.400 and the feminist movement, it's it has become like how 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:50.880 do you say it's been merged? Merge and like feminist 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:55.640 movements and the Green Tide fight for legal and safe abortion, 0:10:55.720 --> 0:11:00.280 but also to radicate the violence against girls and women. Yeah, 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.439 that makes that makes sense. And about the Green Tide, 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.240 I have two questions about the Green Tide. One is 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.360 what kinds of tactics have Green Tide groups been doing? 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:17.719 And also how how linked have the international movement has been? 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:22.400 Like how how close how closely have these organizations been 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:28.920 communicating across and working together across the different countries? Okay, uh, 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:34.000 Since the Green Tide came from Argentina like the most 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:40.800 how do you say that the communication comes from regional 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:45.679 countries in Latin America and Mexico has been learning from 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:50.320 those Latin American countries the experiences we have seen the 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:56.120 feminist movements the protests also more in the South and 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:03.120 the the green handkerchief has this very very powerful symbol 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:07.800 of legal and safe abortion, and this have also contributed 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:14.079 to the social beciminalization of abortion. And wearing the green 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:23.080 handkerchiefs and in the protest also means demanding this health service. 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:29.480 And one of our tactics is of course pressuring the 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:36.840 government in Mexico. Political will, primarily from the left leaning 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:43.440 ruling party, has been fundamental for for the becmmunalization. With 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.920 the new government that I write in two thousand eighteen 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:56.680 headed by Andreo, we have more allies and progressive legislators. 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:02.560 So due to the majority uh that this political party 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:08.640 has in many local converses, the feminists of each state 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:13.480 have been able to pressure and work with these legislators 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:19.760 and keep pushing this agenda. That's awesome. I think something 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.040 that I'm still stuck on is that at the very 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:27.280 least all the states agree that abortion is okay if 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.880 it happened from from rape. Is that what you said earlier, Like, 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:35.000 that's the one we we have a federal lot. It's 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:41.800 the zero forty six met official Mexican norm that states 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:46.160 that abortion is legal if the pregnancy is due to rape, 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:51.360 and all the states, all the public officials have this 0:13:52.000 --> 0:14:00.160 obligation to to ensure that this that this happens. But sometimes, um, 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:04.880 like we we have so many prejudices that sometimes even 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:10.240 doctors don't respect the law. But by not it should 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.480 be legal. And it's not that they all agree it's 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:18.880 the it's thee Yeah, it's just so, I mean, it's 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.920 definitely has its flaws and people with their own biases. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.880 But like here, usually the rapists will have more rights 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.160 and protection than the person that got raped. Like there 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.680 are the family is allowed to sue the person that 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:36.080 got an abortion for example. It's it's insane, but so 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:38.640 for then here, a lot of it, a lot of 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.680 the biggest tree comes from like Christianity and religion. Is 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.360 it the same, like is that the baseline for the 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:51.960 opposition there too, Yes, because Mexico is a predominantly Catholic country, 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:56.880 and abortion and sales many controversies due to the different 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:02.000 positions that accome from this religious stands its stances that 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:06.760 ignore and deny the access to this service and deny 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:12.560 it's a human rights issue, and religious anti rights groups 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.680 or how how do you say? Anti choice groups have 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:22.840 a powerful presence and are actively hindering law proposals regarding 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:29.000 this topic. The prejudices and stigma are present even amongst 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:35.920 healthcare providers and sometimes uh the religious people. They pressure 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:41.880 these healthcare providers, the legislators. For example, every time there 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.800 is a line on local congress there are so many 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:53.000 religious groups outside the congress. They are how do you say, 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:59.280 like bothering the legislators. They even get their personal numbers, 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:04.440 and they are harassing them. Yes, harassing is the word. 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:10.520 They're harassing them. So yes, they have a lot of power, 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:16.680 a lot of money, and these effects even the states 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:21.960 where abortion is legal, because as I said before, sometimes 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:29.000 doctors denied even if it's requested under the legal indication. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:45.800 So yes, it's a problem. I'm curious what you see 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:50.240 as kind of the value of the street actions that 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.800 were carried out as opposed to um kind of the 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.160 the actual organization on the legislative side of things, Like 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:01.600 what what degree do you think both contributed to, you know, 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.840 the successes that you all have seen. I think both 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:13.919 were very very important to the recent successes. The public 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:23.480 demonstrations help the feminist movements strengthened like it is like yes, 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:28.840 this recent protests have been the what do you say? 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.200 It has been where the most women have gone out 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.840 to the streets, taken the streets. And it has helped 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:41.720 because the government has responded to some of our request. 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:48.119 But also it is extremely important too to talk about 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:55.000 the organization. And also, Uh, something I didn't mention and 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.720 that I would like to emphasize is that in two 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:02.000 thousand twenty one, the the Supreme Court of Justice in 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:07.879 Mexico ruled favorably in four abortion related cases. And this 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:14.840 provided us with with progressive jurisprudence and legal interpretations in 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:21.560 favor of recognizing an increasing abortion right. So this has 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:26.240 how do you say, this has served our movement and 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:34.879 all the argumentation to push the decommunalizations. And well, about 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:39.280 the four cases. In the first case, the Supreme Court 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:46.000 declared that limitations to access legal abortion after it must 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:50.399 be removed. In the second case, it declared that the 0:18:50.560 --> 0:19:00.119 absolute communalization of abortion with consent is unconstitutional. Uh. And 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:06.560 in the third case is it declared that the protection 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:12.320 of life from the moment of conception is unconstitutional. And 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:17.520 in the fourth case, the court ruled that legislative reforms 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:23.119 broadening the boundaries of conscientitions objection in the federal health 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:29.800 law are unconstitutional. And the Supreme Court is the highest 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:35.960 court of justice in Mexico and all judges should respect 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:41.879 what they established. And well, unfortunately it doesn't happen in 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:47.480 all states. And but it is like the most important 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:51.960 president we we have right now, and it is fundamental 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:59.280 for our argumentation in local congresses. Have has the national 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.920 government anything at all to try to force the states 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:07.600 who are like not following the rulings too, like except 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:15.000 the rulings. No, because our president, uh he he is 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:21.680 very neutral in this topic, and he has spoken against 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:28.880 feminist movements and key thinks that any protest means like uh, 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:35.840 conservators against his liberal government. So now we we don't 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:43.359 have this this support from the national government, although assignmenttioned before, 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:48.800 we have a lot of allies and in Mariny instances 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:55.240 that have helped to pressure state state public officials too 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.879 to respect the law and to keep pushing this agenda. 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.800 Is the president I'm just curious, I'm ignorant that is 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.840 the president? Like, well, how is he received by the 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:15.200 general public, Like, what's people's like? Is he neutral? Because 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:16.760 he needs a coward because there was one of the 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:22.680 rockety votes. But what are what's the response for the public? Ah? 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:28.320 He he still has a lot of support from from 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:35.040 the majority. He he is one of the the first, 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:40.960 how the same progressive presidents. Although we have been very 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:45.240 disappointed by many of his actions, for instance the increase 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:52.119 of militarization and the communalization of feminists, of human rights 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:57.720 activists of jourmanities. However, it is the first time in 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:05.320 so many years a president talks about for indigenous people 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:11.160 that sends support to rural communities. So he still has 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:19.480 a lot of support. HM. One thing that I don't 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:21.600 know how much. I don't know how much you want 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:25.080 to get into it. But UM we talked to some people, 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:28.440 Oh god, I don't remember how many months ago now, 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:30.640 but we talked to some people a while back who 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:36.480 were UM doing trans rights organizing in Mexico, and they 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:41.479 were talking a lot about how UM that they were 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:49.720 talking about how I guess like anti choice conservative groups 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:53.600 have been using UM have been using sort of organized 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:57.000 transphobic groups as a way to sort of differt attention 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.320 away from the abortion struggle, in the femicide struggle into 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:05.520 stuff that doesn't like challenge the status quo. And yeah, 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:06.920 and I was wondering you just wanted to talk about 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:09.439 that a little bit. Yes, thank you so much for 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:18.919 talking about this transphobia and in the feminist movements is horrible. 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:29.280 Like the Transforbaic feminists have been getting to conservative public officials, 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:34.760 they have been approaching religious groups, and they have even 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:40.359 affected the abortion agenda because some of our laws include 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:46.520 people with the capacity to get pregnant. So these health 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:53.480 services include ah, transpant and non binary people. But this 0:23:53.760 --> 0:24:00.239 Transforbaic feminists have been how do you say, obstaculizing? Is 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:06.640 this struggle because of these prejudices, and it is very 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:12.080 very sad. And some of are some of the main 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:19.800 and most famous reference references in feminism have been citing 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:25.080 this transphobic side. And yes, they are approaching to the 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:30.280 ultra right, and they they have been hindering not only 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:37.200 trans people's rights, but now women's rights. In Gentlemary, Yeah, 0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:40.880 I think was it. I'm trying to remember off top 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:42.359 of my head. I think that there was there was 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:44.480 a picture that was going around that was some of 0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:48.399 the organizers from one of the like transphobic feminist collectives 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:55.840 I like taking pictures with sleeping held around. Yeah, I 0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:58.000 think I think it was sleeping held around. Yeah, but 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:05.119 I don't know. I haven't seen that. But there was 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:10.639 a forums some weeks ago. It was a forum in 0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:15.640 the National Autonomous University of Mexico, and it was a 0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:21.439 feminist on discussion and most of the familists were so 0:25:21.440 --> 0:25:25.359 so famous in all Latin America started to say some 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:34.000 transphobic points. So, yes, this anti rights movement is very 0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:39.080 present and in feminism. Yeah, I guess the other thing 0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:40.920 on that point that I was wondering is how have 0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:45.359 like pro trans feminists been sort of fighting back against 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:50.000 these people. Has that been happening a lot? Uh, Well, 0:25:50.080 --> 0:25:55.680 we're trying, but it has been very, very difficult because 0:25:56.520 --> 0:26:02.000 literally there are transphobic people everywhere everywhere, I mean government 0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:08.560 and non governmental organizations and institutions, and the majority of 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:16.520 the people are not all these says uh socially conscious 0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:23.679 about about trans right. So transport with people who have 0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:30.800 so much more power, but uh, sometimes we we denounce 0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:38.600 it in social media. We reported to two international organizations 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:43.239 and like we have all the human rights narrative and 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:49.040 argumentation in our favor, but it is difficult because there 0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:55.160 are so many trans transports everywhere. Um. We have also 0:26:57.080 --> 0:27:03.280 contacted international organizations to to publicly say that, for example, 0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:06.199 if you want to access a certain grant, you have 0:27:06.359 --> 0:27:14.399 to have an inclusive position. What other ways, uh? We 0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:21.080 like the trans movement has strengthened so much since two 0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:27.960 thousand nineteen because in Mexico City, UM uh, the a 0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:36.640 lot to to recognize trans children and adolescents was pushed 0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:41.960 for the for the first time, like via the administrative way. 0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:48.679 So there has been how do you say, a commission 0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:57.119 of of trans organizations collectives. So I think that is 0:27:57.160 --> 0:28:13.120 the the most noteworthy progress. Yeah, I guess there. There's 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:15.840 been a lot of people like looking to the green 0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:19.200 Tide and looking to U sort of the broader Latin 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:23.439 American feminist movement for sort of inspiration and also for 0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:26.199 sort of tactical advice. And I was wondering what, like, 0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:29.160 what advice would you give people in the US who 0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:32.879 are coming into this fight now, and where would you 0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:36.440 send people to learn more stuff about it? Mm hmm. 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:43.320 Some some key points I consider relevant is firstly the 0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:48.880 visibility of the pro choice agenda and the social ecommunization 0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:53.560 of abortion when we talk about Lettle abortion, we we 0:28:53.720 --> 0:28:58.720 have to emphasize a lot also on the social be communization. 0:28:59.120 --> 0:29:04.960 It is very important to work on strategies to to 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:10.880 reduce statema and demonstrate that abortion is a common reproductive 0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:16.600 event that must be approached using gender perspective and the 0:29:16.800 --> 0:29:24.760 human rights framework. We we encourage public dissemination of the legal, 0:29:25.200 --> 0:29:30.920 medical and social information with with hard sustained data from 0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:37.120 international organizations that position abortion as a as a human 0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:42.200 right and an essential health service. And related to this 0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:51.120 first point, the narrative and argumentation, we have to focus 0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:54.560 um the access to say from legal abortion as a 0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:59.600 human rights issue, which means it's a governmental obligation to 0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:04.640 ensure access to this service. On our case Mexico as 0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:10.600 nationally and international commitments regarding growths and women's rights. And 0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:15.040 I'm pretty share the United States also has this commitments, 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:19.920 so it's their obligation if the government's obligation too to 0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:27.160 ensure and also regarding their narrative, we have to work 0:30:27.280 --> 0:30:33.440 on naturalizing abortion and encourage people to stop using this 0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:39.440 word as a prime Abortion is a human right and 0:30:39.760 --> 0:30:43.920 it is a reproductive event in the life of women 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:47.880 and people with a capacity to get pregnant, and it's 0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:53.200 a reproductive event that has always existed and will always exist, 0:30:53.320 --> 0:31:00.760 either naturally or induced. And some of the organ listations 0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:05.040 that I know of here that that can provide information 0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:12.600 are the Poor Choice Alliance, organizations, Catholics for the Right 0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:17.400 to Decide. They can give the religious and ethical arguments, 0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:24.680 um my organization Gender Quality. We have the social argumentations. 0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:29.480 We we are company and work with with the girls 0:31:29.560 --> 0:31:33.080 and women. We we are in twelve states and we 0:31:33.120 --> 0:31:36.720 are in the mobilizations. We are in the state on 0:31:36.880 --> 0:31:45.360 the local congress is also heated. Heated in Spanish is beautiful. 0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:54.320 The informer. They have all the legal expertise UH and 0:31:54.480 --> 0:31:59.520 they work this reforms and loss to the criminalized abortion. 0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:05.800 We have EPAS. EPAS it's an international organization and they 0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:11.000 are medical experts and they provide all types of data 0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:18.800 and information regarding this part and the Population Council. They 0:32:19.640 --> 0:32:25.600 are the experts on monitoring and investigation and they have 0:32:26.080 --> 0:32:33.600 many research papers and well there are also like other 0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:40.720 pages that that can give information for example about UH 0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:48.080 these their self induced abortion. The Health Organization has a protocol, 0:32:48.160 --> 0:32:53.160 it's a public protocol for for self induced abortion and 0:32:53.240 --> 0:33:01.680 it is completely safe to do it at home. Well, 0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:05.840 I really appreciate all the information. Uh yeah, thank you 0:33:05.920 --> 0:33:08.720 so much. Yeah, thank you so much. I think it's 0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:13.000 really helpful to hear, um what other countries have done 0:33:13.000 --> 0:33:15.520 in the same struggle. It's like so similar but different 0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:17.800 and the say at the same time, because we've dealt 0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:21.239 with the same similar things like turfs and religious like 0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:25.640 opposition and everything. So it's really helpful I think to 0:33:25.880 --> 0:33:29.800 see to realize, like, first of all, it is a 0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:31.960 basic human right, like it it's not even it's like 0:33:32.040 --> 0:33:35.560 internationally an issue. And then just to see how other 0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:39.760 people have organized is really important, I think, yes, And 0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:44.680 now I believe that we have like kind of a 0:33:44.800 --> 0:33:52.280 similar situation whether well, it's a situation of legal discrimination 0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:56.800 in which any women who live or have the resources 0:33:56.840 --> 0:34:00.680 to travel to the states that have been criminalized abortion 0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:06.040 can exercise the right who a voluntary legal interruption of 0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:11.839 their pregnancy? Am I right? Because I, like I don't 0:34:11.840 --> 0:34:15.400 know much about the situation in the United States, but 0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:21.440 I know that it is legal in some states, right, yeah, yeah, 0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:24.799 in some states. And then like in contrast to that, 0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:29.759 it's like illegal even in case of rape, and like 0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:32.319 the people that have been raped can be suited. It's 0:34:32.320 --> 0:34:37.080 like a very like up and down kind of balance. Um. 0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:39.839 But yeah, there's definitely both that exists, and I think 0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:45.719 that's where it becomes really hard to extinguish the bad side. Yes, 0:34:45.800 --> 0:34:49.160 part part of for struggle to be criminalized abortion in 0:34:49.239 --> 0:34:53.719 the other states is because woman who who live in 0:34:53.760 --> 0:34:58.440 poverty and marginalized conditions, who want to have an abortion 0:34:58.600 --> 0:35:02.680 but reside in other states where it's illegal, kind of 0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:09.640 do so under legal circumstances. So it's um also a 0:35:09.680 --> 0:35:16.520 class problem. It's yeah, it's a and also in Mexico 0:35:16.680 --> 0:35:20.840 there are some states that even criminalize us spontaneous abortion. 0:35:20.920 --> 0:35:27.279 It wasn't even induced and instead of calling an ambuments, 0:35:27.880 --> 0:35:31.880 some people called the cups when when a woman is 0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:40.200 dying because of a spontaneous abortion, so es and this 0:35:40.440 --> 0:35:46.600 has caused also a public health problem affecting girls and 0:35:46.680 --> 0:35:50.920 women in more vulnerable situations who live in the in 0:35:51.000 --> 0:35:57.920 the most restrictive context gurl and indigenous communities, also migrants, 0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:05.760