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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Darreon, Welcome Back.

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Speaker 1: It's the Book of Joe Podcast with Me, Tom Berducci,

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Speaker 1: and Joe Madden. Hey Joe, There's a lot going on,

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to give you basically our lineup for today.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the best pitcher in baseball,

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Speaker 1: the best team in baseball, and the best prospect in baseball.

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Speaker 2: It's not okay with you at lineup?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the best.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's start with the best prospect.

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Speaker 1: Roman Anthony gets to the big leagues finally with the

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Speaker 1: Boston Red Sox. I say finally, somewhat facetiously. He just

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Speaker 1: turned twenty one years old, I mean three years ago.

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Speaker 1: The dude is graduating from high school down in Florida,

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Speaker 1: and people have been clamoring for this kid to get

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Speaker 1: to the big leagues and just tear it up the

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Speaker 1: minor leagues.

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Speaker 2: And you can see why, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you caught his buwed last night,

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Speaker 1: but it was pretty darn and impressive to watch this

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Speaker 1: kid walk into Fenway Park. I mean, think about this, Joe.

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Speaker 1: You're twenty one and as you step to the play

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Speaker 1: at Fenway. You're getting a standing ovation. People have been

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Speaker 1: waiting for you to get there and save this team

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Speaker 1: that's been foundering. Not that that's going to be his job,

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Speaker 1: but just because he's a great player, a great prospect,

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Speaker 1: great talent, people have been waiting for him. He steps

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Speaker 1: in there and listen, he had an RBI and a walk.

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Speaker 1: He is the youngest Red Sox player ever to debut

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Speaker 1: with an RBI and a walk. So that tells you

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Speaker 1: something about how comfortably he was in the game.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't a headline, you know, home run.

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Speaker 1: Walk off, whatever, But I thought, just looking at the

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Speaker 1: body language, Joe, I really like the look of this kid.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was reading about him. I didn't actually see it,

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Speaker 4: but I did read about it. And as you're setting

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Speaker 4: that whole thing up, I'm thinking about myself, you know,

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Speaker 4: to be at that age to walk into Fenway, but

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Speaker 4: that kind of poise. I mean, that's the thing about

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Speaker 4: these young guys, is they get there. The difference. I

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Speaker 4: think there's more of the twenty one types that get

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Speaker 4: to the big leagues and are able to handle the

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Speaker 4: stage in a sense.

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Speaker 3: Not overwhelmed. I don't know if that where that comes from.

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Speaker 4: Necessarily Is it the part of the way we're raising

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Speaker 4: them these days.

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Speaker 3: Is it social media?

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Speaker 4: Is it being asked to do more media type things

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Speaker 4: at a younger age. Is it a I mean this

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Speaker 4: and I think a good way of sense of entitlement.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, but the way they're able to a

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Speaker 4: lot of these young guys able to handle this, based

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Speaker 4: on my memory of how I would not have handled it,

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Speaker 4: I don't think nearly as well. As these guys have

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Speaker 4: obviously overarching talent, having confidence in your ability being good.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's obviously the guy's good. But nevertheless, beyond

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Speaker 4: all that, I'm a poised guy, I'm a makeup guy.

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Speaker 4: I'm a character guy when it comes to evaluating my

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Speaker 4: young players. So beyond all of his physical abilities, which

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Speaker 4: are ominous obviously, but the his ability to handle the moment,

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Speaker 4: to me, that's what stands out about him and a

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Speaker 4: lot of the other young players involved. So when I

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Speaker 4: see in that and the way he set it up,

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Speaker 4: like I said, that was my first thought. So that's

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Speaker 4: that would be the reason why he's going to be

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Speaker 4: very good. Is this thing that he's got within himself

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Speaker 4: that I belong here, I can do this, I should

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Speaker 4: be here. I'm a Red Sox. That's gonna be the

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Speaker 4: difference maker for him.

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Speaker 2: Joe, I'm glad you brought that up. I've noticed that

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Speaker 2: as well. I think it's an interesting point.

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Speaker 1: I think young players, and this is guy's very young

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Speaker 1: in terms of age, get to the big leagues and

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Speaker 1: they are not overwhelmed those old stories that hey, wait

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Speaker 1: until you see the third deck.

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Speaker 2: Of a stadium. Well, most of these guys are playing in.

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Speaker 1: Big ballparks and showcases and events and their whole lives.

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Speaker 2: It's not long, but that is the environment.

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Speaker 1: They play, a pressurized environment in which all eyes are

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Speaker 1: on them, like nobody comes up through the shadows anymore,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're that kind of level talent. So and

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Speaker 1: I think it is I think you want to something,

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Speaker 1: you know, socially, societally, these players are used to being

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Speaker 1: in the spotlight. Everybody's got a camera. Now we get that.

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Speaker 1: They're comfortable. I don't see these young players overwhelmed. I

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Speaker 1: don't see a need to protect players and the other thing, Joe,

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Speaker 1: and you know this really well, the clubhouse environment has

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Speaker 1: changed one thousand degrees. I mean it used to be

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Speaker 1: you got to the big leagues, you had to pay

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Speaker 1: your dues, You had to fetch coffee for guys. You

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Speaker 1: weren't supposed to say anything unless somebody spoke to you.

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Speaker 1: You were made to do demeaning things, whether it's carrying

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Speaker 1: the pink backpack to the bullpen or getting the beers

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Speaker 1: on the bus, which doesn't happen anymore at all. That's

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Speaker 1: how rookies were treated, right, And I think it changed

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Speaker 1: in the course of your managing career, Joe, where a

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Speaker 1: young player got to the big leagues and the veterans

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Speaker 1: finally realized, first of all, it's just a proper humane

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Speaker 1: thing to do right, treat people like human beings.

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Speaker 2: But I think they also realized, hey, for us.

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Speaker 1: To win, these young players have to be as comfortable

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Speaker 1: as they can possibly be, So why make them uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: It made no sense that old school, you know, break

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Speaker 1: them in a hard kind of attitude. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's gone, and I think, well, I know baseball and

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Speaker 1: these young players are better for it.

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Speaker 4: As you started that, I wrote the word conversation. Then

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Speaker 4: I wrote the word hazing down, and then I were

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Speaker 4: dress code. After that, the conversation is completely different. You're

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Speaker 4: on hundred percent right. I remember specifically, even as a

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Speaker 4: young coach coming up when I was forty, I was.

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Speaker 4: I was absolutely intimidated by all of that. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: the third dec at Yankee Stadium was ominous, the real

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Speaker 4: Yankee Stadium.

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Speaker 3: And then on top of that, even.

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Speaker 4: Though I had spent my time in the minor leagues

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Speaker 4: as a young coach, still written a little bit by

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Speaker 4: you know, some veteran coaches as an example, and some

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Speaker 4: of the players themselves that had a longer list of achievement.

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Speaker 4: You had to prove yourself to these guys. There wasn't

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Speaker 4: just there wasn't like this acceptance without any kind of

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Speaker 4: proof that you belong there. You just you were accepted. Now,

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Speaker 4: hazing thing was big. I mean it was the guys

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Speaker 4: were meant or made to ride in the bathroom on

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Speaker 4: the bus as you're going to and from a ballpark

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Speaker 4: as an example, no good. The thing I wrote the

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Speaker 4: dress code for. That was one of the things I

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Speaker 4: picked up on when I became a manager. I wanted

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Speaker 4: to get rid of dress codes. I thought that was

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Speaker 4: an intimidating factor. Young guys come up, can't afford the

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Speaker 4: clothes that these other guys could afford, and all of

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Speaker 4: a sudden. You're supposed to dress in a certain way

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Speaker 4: to and from the ballpark on airplanes in buses, but

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Speaker 4: nobody could possibly see you.

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Speaker 3: And I felt the pressure of having to try to

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Speaker 3: dress a.

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Speaker 4: Certain way where I really I mean, I didn't get

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Speaker 4: a penny raise when I went from the minor leagues

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Speaker 4: to the big leagues as a coach, and you have

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Speaker 4: a having a place to live in both California and

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Speaker 4: in Arizona at the same time, your kids, your family's

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Speaker 4: back there, so that your money's even divided further and

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Speaker 4: you can't afford anything. There's all these stressors involved that

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Speaker 4: nobody ever takes into account. I remember them vividly, man,

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Speaker 4: and these are the things that are my hang ups.

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Speaker 4: When I first got to the big leagues as a coach,

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Speaker 4: and then finally I got to the point and talked

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Speaker 4: about this the I be longer, I can do this thing.

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Speaker 4: I talked about the five levels of being a professional,

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Speaker 4: and even as a young coach I had to get past.

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Speaker 3: I was happy to be there.

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Speaker 4: Then I got to survival, which is really crazy, man,

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Speaker 4: because you're just trying to not upset anybody.

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Speaker 3: And finally RVE at that point, you see he said, Man,

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Speaker 3: I could do this.

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Speaker 4: The higher up I thought I got, the more confident

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Speaker 4: I became eventually, because I saw what the competition was

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Speaker 4: like regarding other people that were trying to do the

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Speaker 4: same job. I was so all these were contributing factors

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Speaker 4: regarding keeping you down, and like you're talking about keeping

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Speaker 4: you down were today you sache in there, man, And

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Speaker 4: it's completely different the old school methods of like you're saying, acclimatizing,

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Speaker 4: these guys are breaking them in.

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Speaker 3: It no longer exists. And I agree with you. I

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Speaker 3: never liked it.

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Speaker 4: My way of fighting against it was eradicating dress codes.

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Speaker 4: But they did. They did thwart development. I absolutely believe that.

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Speaker 4: And I think there's like you just suggested that that's

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Speaker 4: not a hurdle anymore.

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Speaker 3: Like it had been.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, listen, I saw it, never liked it.

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Speaker 1: I saw Bernie Williams break in with the Yankees and

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Speaker 1: get hazed by Mill Hall because Bernie was just the

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Speaker 1: sweetheart of a guy.

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Speaker 2: That's what he held against him.

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Speaker 1: I saw Greg Jefferies get folded into a veterans Mets

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Speaker 1: team and they sort of rejected him because he was

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Speaker 1: a guy who would cleaned his bats after every game

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Speaker 1: with alcohol and make sure there were no marks on it,

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Speaker 1: and travel in a special case.

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Speaker 2: They didn't like that.

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Speaker 1: Those days are over with as well. They should be

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Speaker 1: so good riddance to those. Let's talk about the baseball

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Speaker 1: side of things with Roman Anthony.

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Speaker 2: Joe. He played four games in the minor leagues this

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Speaker 2: year in right field.

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Speaker 1: He has played only seventeen of his professional games in

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Speaker 1: right field.

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Speaker 2: He's a great athlete.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say he can't play right field, but for

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Speaker 1: his major league debut, the Red Sox start him in

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Speaker 1: right field, which is the toughest right field in baseball.

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Speaker 2: He did make an error.

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Speaker 1: There was a ball hit to him that's kind of

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Speaker 1: skidded to him and just poor footwork. Really, there's no

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Speaker 1: other reason, another way to put this. He should have

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Speaker 1: stopped the ball.

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Speaker 2: He didn't. It's rare you see a ball get through.

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Speaker 1: An out fielder in the major leagues. You know that Joe,

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Speaker 1: this one got underneath him all the way to the wall.

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Speaker 1: I would rather see Jaron Durant in right field and

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Speaker 1: Anthony left field.

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Speaker 3: What do you think he had played? Where was his

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Speaker 3: most of his upbring?

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Speaker 2: Mostly in left field?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he can play center too, and he's a good defender,

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Speaker 1: sure I get it, but I want my better defender,

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Speaker 1: especially in fenway and right field, and Jared Durant to me,

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Speaker 1: is the better defender.

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Speaker 3: No question I mean.

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Speaker 4: And the other thing is I mean, you have to

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Speaker 4: understand on the other side of the field, the ball

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Speaker 4: reacts completely differently, and you have to, as a former

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Speaker 4: outfield instructor, to very simply put, whatever side you're on,

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Speaker 4: always understand one thing. The ball is gonna curve to

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Speaker 4: the line, whether you're in left field the right field.

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Speaker 4: It slice from a left, the hook from ariety, and

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Speaker 4: vice versa. And you have to know that center field

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Speaker 4: the easiest position to play among the three regarding just

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Speaker 4: reading balls off the back, because the ball is normally straight,

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Speaker 4: it may have some carry. Those are the kind of

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Speaker 4: things that you have to get used to. But on

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Speaker 4: the corners, ball is gonna sliceer hook depends on the

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Speaker 4: right your left handed hitter. So your first step always

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Speaker 4: you have to understand the movement when the ball comes

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Speaker 4: off the bat. How this thing's gonna like I said,

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Speaker 4: slice or hook number one. So if you're constantly playing

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Speaker 4: on the other side of the field, you go to

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Speaker 4: the other side to the right field side. Now it's

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Speaker 4: different the reaction to the ball off the bat, and

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Speaker 4: you got to get used to that. And now it's

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Speaker 4: not rocket science. I understand that, but it's different. And

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Speaker 4: so I'm sure he's as good as you were talking about,

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Speaker 4: and I absolutely believe that he'll get over that. But

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Speaker 4: in the beginning, it's weird. And whether it's a guy

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Speaker 4: going from short to second base, third base to second base, whatever,

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Speaker 4: the game presents differently, and when it presents differently, your

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Speaker 4: mind look looks at it differently and it takes a

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Speaker 4: little bit of adjustment period. So yeah, right field, Fenway,

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Speaker 4: you want your best defender. Although they're probably maybe they

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Speaker 4: were worried about the left field wall, maybe it was

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Speaker 4: analytically conspired based on their lineup, but where the ball

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Speaker 4: may be hit.

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Speaker 3: I know when we.

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Speaker 4: Played the Pirates in Pittsburgh in some formidable years, we

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Speaker 4: put Schoreburn right a postal left because of the size

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Speaker 4: and the girth of left field and Pittsburgh. So I've

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Speaker 4: done that before based on the field and competency of

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Speaker 4: the outfield that moving them back and forth. But like

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Speaker 4: you said, he'll get it, but it's completely different coming

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Speaker 4: off the bat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't like the idea.

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Speaker 1: You only had him four games in Triple A this

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Speaker 1: year at right field, and now it's you know, he's

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Speaker 1: out there before his major league debut taking balls in

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Speaker 1: that right field corner at Fenway Park.

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Speaker 2: Just one more thing to add to his day. That

258
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Speaker 2: didn't love that.

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Speaker 1: Now in the box, his setup reminds me a lot

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Speaker 1: of Christian Yelich and show Hey o Tani.

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Speaker 2: He's very erect. He's got his hands held high.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: It looks to me Joe like he's guy. He's gonna

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Speaker 2: he's just gonna.

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Speaker 1: Murder the ball up like show Hey. The way to

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Speaker 1: get him out is going to be soft down. That's

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Speaker 1: what I see from him.

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Speaker 2: I look at his.

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Speaker 1: Load and show Hey and yellis a little bit shorter

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Speaker 1: with the load. Roman brings his hands down a little

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Speaker 1: bit and has them a little bit behind them, whereas

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Speaker 1: show Hey and Yelly are not going to take their

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Speaker 1: hands behind them where they disappear behind the back. Not

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Speaker 1: a big deal. This guy can absolutely match the ball.

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Speaker 1: He'd a line drive last night one hundred and eleven

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Speaker 1: miles per hour. The Red Sox team this year has

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Speaker 1: hit only twenty balls one hundred and eleven miles per hour.

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Speaker 1: Hit a home run on Triple A eight one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifteen miles per hour. Average Eason Bila was ninety five.

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Speaker 1: This guy has got real, real power, and I guarantee

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Speaker 1: you he's going to hit the ball up in the

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Speaker 1: strike zone. And that's the other thing, Joe and I

283
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Speaker 1: forget who the batter was, but I remember somebody came

284
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Speaker 1: up to the major leagues with the Cubs from the

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Speaker 1: minor leagues who was a dead fastball hitter. Immediately they

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Speaker 1: fed him nothing but breaking stuff. You know, the old

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Speaker 1: days of you know, let's see if this guy can

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Speaker 1: hit major league velocity.

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Speaker 2: Gone.

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Speaker 1: You talk about respect. The Rays last night, through Roman

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Speaker 1: Anthony eighteen pitches, they threw him only three fastballs in

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Speaker 1: the zone fifty five percent of the pitches they threw

293
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Speaker 1: this kid making his major league debut, or spin fifty

294
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Speaker 1: five percent, And to his crew it he only chased

295
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Speaker 1: two pitches. Both were fastballs that were actually just borderline fastballs,

296
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Speaker 1: really not bad, so really good to swing decisions. But

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Speaker 1: the respect Tampa Bay showed this kid tells you the

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Speaker 1: world of information. Yes, it's in the minor leagues. Everybody's

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Speaker 1: got the info and the respect for this kid. It

300
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Speaker 1: was obvious in day one of the big leagues that

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Speaker 1: was Robel.

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Speaker 3: Robel Robel? Was it Robel Garcia?

303
00:13:27,118 --> 00:13:29,518
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly right. I couldn't believe it.

304
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Speaker 1: Kid steps in and they're spinning the ball, spit of

305
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Speaker 1: the ball, spit of the ball.

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Speaker 4: I had been alerted to that he had been playing

307
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Speaker 4: in Italy, and I'll tell you what, he had a

308
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Speaker 4: couple home runs on fastballs. Their suckers are still going.

309
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Speaker 4: But he comes up and his first at bat was,

310
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Speaker 4: like you said, nothing but breaking balls. Items to be

311
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Speaker 4: at least I would say weeks or maybe a month

312
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Speaker 4: of a period in time when the guy gets called up,

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Speaker 4: that at least he could feast on a pitch that

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Speaker 4: he likes. Because the scott and report hasn't caught up yet.

315
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Speaker 4: But these Scotty reports precede these guys as they get there.

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Speaker 4: That's right, That's exactly what's going to happen. That is

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Speaker 4: the world that we live in. And those are the

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00:14:02,038 --> 00:14:04,358
Speaker 4: adjustments these guys have to make right out of the

319
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Speaker 4: right out of the womb. Because again, it normally took

320
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Speaker 4: some time for people to catch up but they're caught

321
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Speaker 4: up the moment these guys land on the Fenway Park field.

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Speaker 1: Here's the other thing, Joe, this is a managerial check,

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Speaker 1: and I really want interested in your opinion. Of course,

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Speaker 1: you know these managers have more information than we do.

325
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Speaker 1: Let's start with that. We know that, not second guessing

326
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Speaker 1: Alex Corey here. I'm just I want to talk through

327
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Speaker 1: the options here. You're batting this kid fifth for his

328
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Speaker 1: major league debut.

329
00:14:30,318 --> 00:14:32,158
Speaker 2: That alone tells you how much confidence you have with

330
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Speaker 2: this kid.

331
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Speaker 1: We get to the eleventh inning, the Red Sox are

332
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Speaker 1: down two runs. You have the automatic runner on second base,

333
00:14:38,878 --> 00:14:41,118
Speaker 1: and there's a left handed pitcher on the mound. Alex

334
00:14:41,198 --> 00:14:44,758
Speaker 1: core A pinch hits for Roman Anthony with Rob Refsnyder.

335
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Speaker 1: Now ref Snyder is in the big leagues because he

336
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Speaker 1: hits left handed pitching. He's lugging over five hundred against them.

337
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Speaker 2: I get that.

338
00:14:50,158 --> 00:14:53,598
Speaker 1: The pitcher on the mound, the lefty, was Ian Seymour,

339
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Speaker 1: who was making his major league debut. In other words,

340
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Speaker 1: a couple of days ago, he was in the minor

341
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Speaker 1: leagues with Roman Anthony.

342
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Speaker 2: I understand.

343
00:15:01,278 --> 00:15:03,078
Speaker 1: You know you're looking the juice of ball over the

344
00:15:03,118 --> 00:15:07,158
Speaker 1: wall there tied game, and Rob Refsneider did get a

345
00:15:07,198 --> 00:15:08,798
Speaker 1: walk out on base, so now you've got the time

346
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Speaker 1: runs on base. I just don't like the idea. I've

347
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Speaker 1: got my fifth place hitter making his major league debut.

348
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Speaker 1: I never want him looking over his shoulder late in

349
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Speaker 1: the game to see if the manager has confidence in

350
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Speaker 1: me against the lefty, and I'll go back to I

351
00:15:24,398 --> 00:15:27,838
Speaker 1: saw Rafael Devers in the fifteenth game he ever played

352
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Speaker 1: in the big leagues at the age of twenty, stepped

353
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Speaker 1: in in the ninth inning, down one run against a

354
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Speaker 1: Roldis Chapman, took the bat and hit a home run

355
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Speaker 1: off a pitch that was one oh two point eight

356
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Speaker 1: miles per hour. Rafael Devers never looked over his shoulder.

357
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Speaker 1: I just don't like the idea for the top prospect.

358
00:15:46,398 --> 00:15:49,918
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say any young prospect of saying it's all right,

359
00:15:49,918 --> 00:15:51,438
Speaker 1: we're gonna have the right to take this at bat

360
00:15:51,438 --> 00:15:51,878
Speaker 1: for you.

361
00:15:51,918 --> 00:15:54,958
Speaker 4: What do you think, yeah, mud, Yes, I mean listen,

362
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Speaker 4: I don't second guess guys. There's always reasons apparently, but

363
00:15:59,198 --> 00:16:01,918
Speaker 4: no way, I'm thinking that's like Longo comes up, I'm

364
00:16:01,958 --> 00:16:03,718
Speaker 4: gonna pinch it for Longo late in the ball game

365
00:16:03,718 --> 00:16:07,758
Speaker 4: with the Rays back in oakb comes up first couple

366
00:16:07,838 --> 00:16:08,998
Speaker 4: at bats, I'm going to pitch it.

367
00:16:08,958 --> 00:16:11,918
Speaker 3: For KB plate in the game. You don't do it.

368
00:16:12,038 --> 00:16:12,798
Speaker 3: You just don't do it.

369
00:16:12,798 --> 00:16:16,558
Speaker 4: I mean, that's the I think the potential negative effects

370
00:16:16,998 --> 00:16:20,478
Speaker 4: are greater than the positives. Rest night are walking whatever.

371
00:16:21,398 --> 00:16:24,078
Speaker 4: But this guy's got to know that. You believe he's

372
00:16:24,078 --> 00:16:26,598
Speaker 4: a guy, he got his back, he's there for he's

373
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Speaker 4: there for a reason.

374
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Speaker 3: My god, I don't know. I don't I don't get

375
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Speaker 3: that one.

376
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Speaker 4: Quite frankly, I could say with the assuredness I would

377
00:16:32,038 --> 00:16:34,918
Speaker 4: never have done that, because it's just the negative components

378
00:16:34,918 --> 00:16:38,718
Speaker 4: of that really exponentially outweigh what's going to happen positively

379
00:16:38,758 --> 00:16:39,998
Speaker 4: in that one particular game.

380
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Speaker 3: I don't know this kid. He's probably pretty tough.

381
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Speaker 4: I would imagine this, But maybe there was a conversation

382
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Speaker 4: with the batting instructor. I'm sure the batting coach with

383
00:16:48,638 --> 00:16:51,598
Speaker 4: this kid after as the as refsnyders going up to

384
00:16:51,598 --> 00:16:53,478
Speaker 4: the plate, this conversation is taking place.

385
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Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't see

386
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Speaker 3: the positive there at all.

387
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Speaker 1: By the way, he hit three sixty seven against lefties

388
00:17:01,398 --> 00:17:01,918
Speaker 1: and the miners.

389
00:17:01,998 --> 00:17:04,158
Speaker 4: Yeah, well he's gonna do that. I mean, listen, it's

390
00:17:04,198 --> 00:17:07,398
Speaker 4: it doesn't not even knowing that. I mean when you

391
00:17:07,478 --> 00:17:10,478
Speaker 4: pet when you have left these like that minor league

392
00:17:10,478 --> 00:17:13,398
Speaker 4: development wise and coming up. He's a guy exactly, and

393
00:17:13,438 --> 00:17:15,718
Speaker 4: I would like, you know, I'm when I said, run

394
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Speaker 4: the minor leagues. There's no way I would permit one

395
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Speaker 4: of my managers to pinch it for a guy like that.

396
00:17:22,078 --> 00:17:22,398
Speaker 3: I had.

397
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Speaker 4: This was like that early on with Jimmy Edmonds Jarff Phillips,

398
00:17:26,318 --> 00:17:27,998
Speaker 4: two good leftenant hitters.

399
00:17:27,758 --> 00:17:28,678
Speaker 3: Both maybe to the big leagues.

400
00:17:28,718 --> 00:17:31,758
Speaker 4: Of course, everybody remembers Jimmy, and even to the point

401
00:17:31,758 --> 00:17:33,878
Speaker 4: where one of my managers wanted a bat him lower

402
00:17:33,918 --> 00:17:36,478
Speaker 4: in the batting order they were struggling. I said, no,

403
00:17:36,598 --> 00:17:39,118
Speaker 4: we're not doing that. We're not going to put Jimmy

404
00:17:39,358 --> 00:17:41,238
Speaker 4: eighth or ninth or seventh. And the same thing with

405
00:17:41,318 --> 00:17:43,798
Speaker 4: Charlie Phillips j R. Ain't happening. That's not where they're

406
00:17:43,838 --> 00:17:47,518
Speaker 4: going to hit. I don't want their confidence shattered they're

407
00:17:47,718 --> 00:17:50,398
Speaker 4: at all, especially on the minor league level.

408
00:17:50,478 --> 00:17:52,758
Speaker 3: So even came down to that for me, I did not.

409
00:17:52,838 --> 00:17:56,398
Speaker 4: Want the better players left on left uh put down

410
00:17:56,398 --> 00:17:59,758
Speaker 4: there now I didn't mind obviously back then, even you know,

411
00:17:59,758 --> 00:18:01,998
Speaker 4: if the guys the stuff, you know, organizational kind of

412
00:18:02,038 --> 00:18:04,118
Speaker 4: guy and you're trying to win the game. And that

413
00:18:04,198 --> 00:18:05,718
Speaker 4: was the other thing I took the wraps off them

414
00:18:05,758 --> 00:18:08,038
Speaker 4: in August, last month of the season, where I would say,

415
00:18:08,238 --> 00:18:09,918
Speaker 4: go ahead and try to win the game. You know,

416
00:18:09,918 --> 00:18:11,998
Speaker 4: you don't have to play as much for development. But

417
00:18:12,398 --> 00:18:17,318
Speaker 4: there was certain untouchables, and it just like I said, psychologically,

418
00:18:17,918 --> 00:18:20,998
Speaker 4: the devastation to that guy could be a lot more

419
00:18:21,038 --> 00:18:23,638
Speaker 4: greater than just an out or losing a minor league

420
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Speaker 4: baseball game. And in this situation, we'll see it plays

421
00:18:25,838 --> 00:18:27,718
Speaker 4: out over the next week or so. I bet she

422
00:18:27,798 --> 00:18:29,238
Speaker 4: doesn't do it again. That'd be my bet.

423
00:18:29,478 --> 00:18:32,718
Speaker 1: Yeah, And listen, everything that I've heard about this kid,

424
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Speaker 1: the character is off the charts.

425
00:18:34,238 --> 00:18:35,598
Speaker 2: I mean, he's very composed.

426
00:18:35,638 --> 00:18:38,518
Speaker 1: We saw that, as we mentioned in his comfort level,

427
00:18:38,558 --> 00:18:40,598
Speaker 1: his swing decisions, everything, body language.

428
00:18:40,678 --> 00:18:43,478
Speaker 2: Last night. I wouldn't worry about what it does to him.

429
00:18:43,638 --> 00:18:48,398
Speaker 1: I just think sometimes chasing those incremental edges strategically within

430
00:18:48,438 --> 00:18:51,278
Speaker 1: a game, you've got to look beyond that and just

431
00:18:51,478 --> 00:18:55,118
Speaker 1: messaging to your top prospect, the top prospect in baseball

432
00:18:55,278 --> 00:18:57,118
Speaker 1: in that case, to me is more important.

433
00:18:57,238 --> 00:18:58,918
Speaker 4: Well, it's also going to create some kind of a

434
00:18:58,958 --> 00:19:01,158
Speaker 4: little bit of a conversation within the clubhouse, one of

435
00:19:01,158 --> 00:19:04,518
Speaker 4: those like little innuendo field conversations that you don't need,

436
00:19:04,638 --> 00:19:07,478
Speaker 4: especially with the fact that the Red Sox are like struggling.

437
00:19:07,478 --> 00:19:09,958
Speaker 4: To Ben, I would almost believe that part of the

438
00:19:09,998 --> 00:19:12,398
Speaker 4: decision making right there was the fact that they're sub

439
00:19:12,438 --> 00:19:14,358
Speaker 4: five hundred right now. There's there's a lot of little

440
00:19:14,478 --> 00:19:17,478
Speaker 4: things items going on within that decision making, but the

441
00:19:17,518 --> 00:19:21,238
Speaker 4: conversation created from that moment within the clubhouse is never good.

442
00:19:21,318 --> 00:19:25,438
Speaker 1: By the way, this weekend at the Fens, it is Yankees,

443
00:19:25,718 --> 00:19:29,398
Speaker 1: Red Sox, the Roman Empire against the evil Empire.

444
00:19:29,838 --> 00:19:32,278
Speaker 2: That will be his wealth, the big league moment.

445
00:19:33,638 --> 00:19:34,718
Speaker 3: I love that. That's great.

446
00:19:34,838 --> 00:19:36,798
Speaker 2: Hey, when we come back, we need to talk about

447
00:19:36,998 --> 00:19:37,878
Speaker 2: Paul Skeins.

448
00:19:38,798 --> 00:19:42,998
Speaker 1: Is he the greatest pitching phenom of all time? Stick

449
00:19:43,038 --> 00:19:54,558
Speaker 1: around for that right after this on the Book of Joe.

450
00:19:57,038 --> 00:19:59,718
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe. I'm just amazed

451
00:19:59,718 --> 00:20:00,518
Speaker 1: by Paul Skeins.

452
00:20:00,598 --> 00:20:00,878
Speaker 3: Joe.

453
00:20:00,918 --> 00:20:02,438
Speaker 2: I mean, you've seen a lot of great.

454
00:20:02,198 --> 00:20:04,878
Speaker 1: Pictures break into the big leagues, and you're and I

455
00:20:05,038 --> 00:20:07,358
Speaker 1: never saw anyone better coming out.

456
00:20:07,198 --> 00:20:08,678
Speaker 2: Of the Gate than Dwight Gooden.

457
00:20:08,878 --> 00:20:11,838
Speaker 1: Dwight Gooden was the best pitching phenom I ever saw,

458
00:20:12,238 --> 00:20:15,078
Speaker 1: and he was doing it at twenty years old.

459
00:20:15,598 --> 00:20:19,278
Speaker 2: I mean, he was just two pitch guy, fastball, curveball.

460
00:20:19,838 --> 00:20:23,038
Speaker 1: He overwhelmed major league hitters like nobody that I saw.

461
00:20:23,798 --> 00:20:26,838
Speaker 1: So I have a hard time thinking that Paul Skeens

462
00:20:26,918 --> 00:20:30,118
Speaker 1: or anybody is a better phenom than Dwight Gooden. Now,

463
00:20:30,118 --> 00:20:32,638
Speaker 1: you can go Fernando Valenzuela, you can go Mark Fidgritch,

464
00:20:32,638 --> 00:20:35,078
Speaker 1: you can go Steven Strasburg, the whole litany.

465
00:20:35,278 --> 00:20:37,918
Speaker 2: We all know the names. But I will tell you this.

466
00:20:38,398 --> 00:20:41,238
Speaker 1: About Paul Skeens in his first thirty seven starts. It's

467
00:20:41,238 --> 00:20:43,118
Speaker 1: all we have to go by right now, just thirty

468
00:20:43,158 --> 00:20:45,878
Speaker 1: seven starts. He's a year and a month into his

469
00:20:45,918 --> 00:20:50,518
Speaker 1: major league career. He has the lowest ERA of any

470
00:20:50,558 --> 00:20:53,038
Speaker 1: pitcher in his first thirty seven starts, one point nine

471
00:20:53,078 --> 00:20:57,478
Speaker 1: to three. He has the second highest strikeout rate of

472
00:20:57,558 --> 00:21:00,678
Speaker 1: any pitcher in his first thirty seven starts. Only Steven

473
00:21:00,718 --> 00:21:04,718
Speaker 1: Strasburg had a higher strikeout rate, and Strawburg already had

474
00:21:04,758 --> 00:21:05,998
Speaker 1: blown out by the time he.

475
00:21:05,998 --> 00:21:08,078
Speaker 2: Made twelve starts in the big leagues.

476
00:21:08,838 --> 00:21:11,198
Speaker 1: So when I watch him pitch, Joe, We're talking about

477
00:21:11,198 --> 00:21:13,438
Speaker 1: a guy with seven pitches.

478
00:21:14,118 --> 00:21:16,038
Speaker 2: He throws his basketball in ninety eight.

479
00:21:16,078 --> 00:21:19,238
Speaker 1: He has seven pitches and six of them are positive

480
00:21:19,358 --> 00:21:20,038
Speaker 1: run value.

481
00:21:20,118 --> 00:21:21,318
Speaker 2: They're elite pitches.

482
00:21:21,678 --> 00:21:24,678
Speaker 1: And right now, if you look at how pitching isn't

483
00:21:24,678 --> 00:21:27,478
Speaker 1: the big leagues, and I always call this the three s's,

484
00:21:27,158 --> 00:21:31,478
Speaker 1: it's shaping, it's sequencing, and it's spin, there's nobody doing

485
00:21:31,518 --> 00:21:33,158
Speaker 1: it better than Paul Skean's.

486
00:21:33,438 --> 00:21:35,318
Speaker 2: Now you can give me Trek School, Well, I get it.

487
00:21:35,438 --> 00:21:38,478
Speaker 1: I wouldn't argue that, you know, this guy's right there,

488
00:21:38,678 --> 00:21:40,958
Speaker 1: but no one's better right now than Paul Skeen. So

489
00:21:41,518 --> 00:21:46,838
Speaker 1: I do think in a thirty seven game sample size,

490
00:21:47,038 --> 00:21:49,398
Speaker 1: Paul Skeenes is the best pitching phenom.

491
00:21:49,598 --> 00:21:52,278
Speaker 2: Ever, what do you think hard argue?

492
00:21:52,358 --> 00:21:54,878
Speaker 3: Right? I mean, the numbers support all of that. I

493
00:21:54,958 --> 00:21:55,478
Speaker 3: watch him.

494
00:21:55,558 --> 00:21:57,438
Speaker 4: I mean, first of all, you know, the physical size,

495
00:21:57,478 --> 00:22:00,198
Speaker 4: the deception, and his delivery. You know, I was concerned

496
00:22:00,198 --> 00:22:02,358
Speaker 4: about the ways arm kind of worked when I first

497
00:22:02,398 --> 00:22:04,518
Speaker 4: saw it, and then the fact that he throws like

498
00:22:04,558 --> 00:22:06,558
Speaker 4: the split kind of a pitch where he splits his

499
00:22:06,558 --> 00:22:09,078
Speaker 4: fingers a lot. All those things always bothered me with

500
00:22:09,118 --> 00:22:11,478
Speaker 4: the young pitcher. But it just seems like he's on

501
00:22:11,638 --> 00:22:14,918
Speaker 4: a different level strength wise, and the flexibility and the

502
00:22:14,958 --> 00:22:17,838
Speaker 4: way he developed all this coming up through the collegiate

503
00:22:17,878 --> 00:22:20,918
Speaker 4: ranks to get to the Major League's professional baseball and

504
00:22:20,998 --> 00:22:24,118
Speaker 4: the major leagues. He's a different animal. I cannot disagree

505
00:22:24,158 --> 00:22:26,678
Speaker 4: with that. I probably need to watch him a little

506
00:22:26,678 --> 00:22:30,678
Speaker 4: bit more steadily often. However, this stuff is oppressive. It's

507
00:22:30,718 --> 00:22:33,398
Speaker 4: just all like you said, And I was concerned that

508
00:22:33,438 --> 00:22:35,758
Speaker 4: he's like adding too many ingredients in the mix with

509
00:22:35,798 --> 00:22:38,678
Speaker 4: all these different pitches, and how that would because sometimes

510
00:22:39,038 --> 00:22:41,358
Speaker 4: as you're throwing another pitcher and newer pitch, that something

511
00:22:41,398 --> 00:22:43,678
Speaker 4: else that you do really well suffers. And I always

512
00:22:43,758 --> 00:22:46,078
Speaker 4: was concerned about that when guys would want to do that.

513
00:22:46,438 --> 00:22:50,038
Speaker 4: Pictures I had, especially with the Rays. But however, obviously

514
00:22:50,038 --> 00:22:51,838
Speaker 4: he can do it. I mean, the guy just manipulates

515
00:22:51,838 --> 00:22:54,878
Speaker 4: the ball so well. You Darbish does that really well,

516
00:22:55,638 --> 00:22:59,558
Speaker 4: Shoiotani does that really well. These guys you could just

517
00:22:59,558 --> 00:23:01,958
Speaker 4: give them a pitch before the game. I swear I

518
00:23:01,998 --> 00:23:03,598
Speaker 4: saw it, and they take it into the game, and

519
00:23:03,598 --> 00:23:06,878
Speaker 4: it's just that's as an additive, like walking out through

520
00:23:06,878 --> 00:23:10,078
Speaker 4: the bullpen. The time that Darbish picked up Kyle Hendrick's

521
00:23:10,118 --> 00:23:12,278
Speaker 4: changeup and then he brings it into the game. I

522
00:23:12,398 --> 00:23:14,718
Speaker 4: was like staggering to watch this whole thing. Certain guys

523
00:23:15,278 --> 00:23:18,718
Speaker 4: just have this different feel and it's all about feel.

524
00:23:18,718 --> 00:23:22,678
Speaker 3: I mean, you get information, you do mechanics.

525
00:23:21,998 --> 00:23:24,798
Speaker 4: You think things through, but feel, to me is the

526
00:23:24,918 --> 00:23:28,718
Speaker 4: ultimate reason why somebody's outstanding what they do. They just

527
00:23:28,798 --> 00:23:32,198
Speaker 4: feel something and they're able to replicate it, repeat it

528
00:23:32,318 --> 00:23:35,318
Speaker 4: more constantly than those that are pedestrian like myself. I mean,

529
00:23:35,878 --> 00:23:38,798
Speaker 4: feel is what makes the world go around, I believe.

530
00:23:38,878 --> 00:23:41,878
Speaker 4: So he's got this incredible feel for what he does,

531
00:23:42,078 --> 00:23:43,878
Speaker 4: and then I think his workout with team being as

532
00:23:43,958 --> 00:23:47,198
Speaker 4: unique as it is, he's built up this this method

533
00:23:47,238 --> 00:23:49,838
Speaker 4: within his body that he's Like I said, there's a

534
00:23:49,878 --> 00:23:52,998
Speaker 4: deception about it, but there's also a repeatability about it.

535
00:23:53,558 --> 00:23:57,118
Speaker 4: And then this is innate feel for manipulating the ball

536
00:23:57,238 --> 00:24:01,318
Speaker 4: by his fingertips. Really interesting to watch. Everybody wants one

537
00:24:01,318 --> 00:24:02,798
Speaker 4: of those not easy to find.

538
00:24:02,918 --> 00:24:03,518
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right.

539
00:24:03,518 --> 00:24:05,598
Speaker 1: You mentioned you Darvish, and as you said that, I

540
00:24:05,638 --> 00:24:08,958
Speaker 1: thought about David Cohne, Mike Mussina, two guys who literally

541
00:24:09,438 --> 00:24:14,078
Speaker 1: El Duque Orlando Hernandez. They could almost invent pitches on

542
00:24:14,118 --> 00:24:15,678
Speaker 1: the mound as they're going through the game.

543
00:24:15,718 --> 00:24:17,998
Speaker 2: As you said, the key there is feel. So Skeens

544
00:24:18,038 --> 00:24:18,438
Speaker 2: is a guy.

545
00:24:18,558 --> 00:24:21,918
Speaker 1: He is a physical beast, right, I mean it's he's

546
00:24:21,998 --> 00:24:24,038
Speaker 1: built to pitch deep into games and he's doing that

547
00:24:24,158 --> 00:24:26,238
Speaker 1: now with the governors off this year as opposed to

548
00:24:26,318 --> 00:24:29,478
Speaker 1: last year. But he also has tremendous feel. I mean,

549
00:24:29,518 --> 00:24:31,518
Speaker 1: the art of pitching, it doesn't get any better than

550
00:24:31,518 --> 00:24:34,118
Speaker 1: what he's doing right now. You did mention, you know,

551
00:24:34,198 --> 00:24:36,558
Speaker 1: the way he was kind of tinkering with some pitches.

552
00:24:36,598 --> 00:24:39,678
Speaker 1: You know, spring training he sort of experimented with the cutter.

553
00:24:39,838 --> 00:24:42,158
Speaker 1: That was one of his projects. I haven't seen them

554
00:24:42,158 --> 00:24:44,438
Speaker 1: throw the cutter this year, which I'm happy about.

555
00:24:44,478 --> 00:24:45,558
Speaker 2: He doesn't need that pitch.

556
00:24:46,038 --> 00:24:49,278
Speaker 1: What he has added, though, is the two seamer, and

557
00:24:49,558 --> 00:24:53,518
Speaker 1: it is just remarkable to watch Paul Skeen's carve up

558
00:24:53,598 --> 00:24:56,758
Speaker 1: right handed hitters. Now, he's got a four steam fastball

559
00:24:56,798 --> 00:24:59,158
Speaker 1: I mentioned at ninety eight that has carry at the

560
00:24:59,198 --> 00:25:02,478
Speaker 1: top of his own. He's got that splinker, which is

561
00:25:02,518 --> 00:25:05,358
Speaker 1: really a combination of a sinker and a split where

562
00:25:05,398 --> 00:25:07,438
Speaker 1: he does split the fingers where that ball and he

563
00:25:07,478 --> 00:25:11,198
Speaker 1: loves to throw it inside the Rady's drops so it

564
00:25:11,278 --> 00:25:13,838
Speaker 1: goes below the barrel of the hitter. And now he's

565
00:25:13,878 --> 00:25:17,198
Speaker 1: got the two seamer that runs in on the right

566
00:25:17,238 --> 00:25:19,838
Speaker 1: handed hitter's hands. Now think about that, we're only talking

567
00:25:19,838 --> 00:25:22,518
Speaker 1: about pretty much fastballs here. All these pitches are between

568
00:25:22,598 --> 00:25:25,078
Speaker 1: ninety three and ninety eight miles an hour. So he's

569
00:25:25,118 --> 00:25:28,398
Speaker 1: got the four steamer elevated with ride, he's got the

570
00:25:28,438 --> 00:25:32,318
Speaker 1: splinker down that drops, and he's got the two seamer

571
00:25:32,398 --> 00:25:34,598
Speaker 1: that runs in on the hands. There's no way a

572
00:25:34,678 --> 00:25:36,958
Speaker 1: hitter can cover all those things. And we haven't even

573
00:25:36,958 --> 00:25:40,678
Speaker 1: got to his breaking stuff yet. So I just think

574
00:25:40,718 --> 00:25:43,638
Speaker 1: that Paul Skeens is on a different level than everybody

575
00:25:43,638 --> 00:25:46,398
Speaker 1: else in terms of his ability to put people away.

576
00:25:46,438 --> 00:25:47,078
Speaker 2: I mean, he.

577
00:25:47,198 --> 00:25:50,798
Speaker 1: Literally has strikeouts on seven different pitches this year. There's

578
00:25:50,958 --> 00:25:54,318
Speaker 1: just too much to cover well completely. You have to

579
00:25:54,438 --> 00:25:57,398
Speaker 1: honor the ninety eight miles per hour. He's fun to

580
00:25:57,438 --> 00:26:00,758
Speaker 1: watch pitch because he's always thinking out there, it's not here,

581
00:26:00,798 --> 00:26:04,478
Speaker 1: it is hit it. He forces swing decisions because he

582
00:26:04,598 --> 00:26:08,478
Speaker 1: does not spray the ball. His misses are almost always

583
00:26:08,598 --> 00:26:11,398
Speaker 1: good misses. There's almost nothing you can rule out out

584
00:26:11,438 --> 00:26:13,358
Speaker 1: of the hand as being non competitive.

585
00:26:13,518 --> 00:26:14,918
Speaker 2: Just to get a chance anytime.

586
00:26:14,958 --> 00:26:19,038
Speaker 1: This guy pitches for me, it's it's musty because it's

587
00:26:19,078 --> 00:26:19,838
Speaker 1: it's pitching.

588
00:26:19,918 --> 00:26:22,478
Speaker 2: It's not just power, it's not just below.

589
00:26:22,238 --> 00:26:25,878
Speaker 4: Agreed, and you kind of touched on it the wanting

590
00:26:25,918 --> 00:26:28,518
Speaker 4: to an ability to pitch inside in general, What does

591
00:26:28,518 --> 00:26:30,678
Speaker 4: his numbers look like against lefties on the inner part

592
00:26:30,678 --> 00:26:31,078
Speaker 4: of the plate.

593
00:26:31,118 --> 00:26:32,278
Speaker 3: Do you have that information?

594
00:26:32,918 --> 00:26:35,238
Speaker 1: Uh, that's where he goes a lot with the four

595
00:26:35,278 --> 00:26:36,278
Speaker 1: steamers up and end.

596
00:26:36,398 --> 00:26:37,358
Speaker 3: Okay to the lefty.

597
00:26:37,638 --> 00:26:40,238
Speaker 1: He's got the slider once in a while, throw there,

598
00:26:40,278 --> 00:26:43,198
Speaker 1: but curveball is just okay, that's probably his seventh pitch.

599
00:26:43,318 --> 00:26:45,158
Speaker 2: Doesn't show that a lot. That's more of it just

600
00:26:45,158 --> 00:26:46,558
Speaker 2: to can get me over once in a while.

601
00:26:46,958 --> 00:26:50,038
Speaker 1: But I'd have to dive into specifically what the average Listen,

602
00:26:50,038 --> 00:26:53,198
Speaker 1: nobody hits Paul Skins like everything against Paul Skins, the

603
00:26:53,238 --> 00:26:56,238
Speaker 1: numbers are low, so you're looking at any kind of vulnerability.

604
00:26:56,918 --> 00:26:59,838
Speaker 1: And the split splinker he generally keeps the same on

605
00:27:00,038 --> 00:27:01,558
Speaker 1: arm side the entire time.

606
00:27:01,318 --> 00:27:03,078
Speaker 2: Whether it's right he's or lefties. So that's a good

607
00:27:03,078 --> 00:27:04,238
Speaker 2: pitch against lefties.

608
00:27:03,998 --> 00:27:06,958
Speaker 4: To exactly the down and way. I'm just curious because

609
00:27:06,998 --> 00:27:09,438
Speaker 4: you're he's just dominating the inner part of the plate

610
00:27:09,438 --> 00:27:11,878
Speaker 4: against the rightings. I mean the two seamer or this.

611
00:27:11,998 --> 00:27:13,638
Speaker 2: It's a lot like Zach Wheeler doing it.

612
00:27:13,838 --> 00:27:16,478
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love that stuff. I love pitches underneath.

613
00:27:17,158 --> 00:27:21,878
Speaker 4: James Shields, Alex Cobb, Kyle Hendrix, all these really good

614
00:27:21,958 --> 00:27:24,558
Speaker 4: change up guys, not splinkers, whatever, but guys that could

615
00:27:24,638 --> 00:27:25,838
Speaker 4: dive balls underneath.

616
00:27:25,878 --> 00:27:26,278
Speaker 3: Righty's.

617
00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:28,158
Speaker 4: Part of the thing is as a right handed hitter,

618
00:27:28,318 --> 00:27:30,638
Speaker 4: it's a little bit different now maybe, but predominantly you're

619
00:27:30,678 --> 00:27:33,078
Speaker 4: really like more of a flat swing inside the ball

620
00:27:33,158 --> 00:27:35,278
Speaker 4: kind of a swing. And whenever you had a flat

621
00:27:35,318 --> 00:27:37,918
Speaker 4: swing underneath, this really good place to go. So that

622
00:27:37,918 --> 00:27:40,278
Speaker 4: would be a lefty slider breaking ball at the back

623
00:27:40,278 --> 00:27:42,438
Speaker 4: foot of a righty or a right hander that's willing

624
00:27:42,518 --> 00:27:45,758
Speaker 4: to throw that change up or a sinker down and

625
00:27:45,838 --> 00:27:46,598
Speaker 4: down underneath.

626
00:27:46,598 --> 00:27:48,678
Speaker 3: That's why guys they hate that pitch.

627
00:27:48,678 --> 00:27:49,958
Speaker 4: They're going if they hit it, it's going to be

628
00:27:49,958 --> 00:27:51,998
Speaker 4: off their shin or they're there their big tone on

629
00:27:52,038 --> 00:27:54,158
Speaker 4: the left foot. I mean, it's an uncomfortable at bat

630
00:27:54,198 --> 00:27:56,878
Speaker 4: when you get guys, lot of guys power guys sometimes

631
00:27:57,318 --> 00:27:59,038
Speaker 4: and they're not willing to throw inside.

632
00:27:59,158 --> 00:27:59,838
Speaker 3: At least a.

633
00:27:59,838 --> 00:28:03,358
Speaker 4: Hitter is willing to and can look more away, which

634
00:28:03,398 --> 00:28:05,198
Speaker 4: helps him a little bit. But when you're when you're

635
00:28:05,238 --> 00:28:07,798
Speaker 4: able to pound that inner edge of the plate, it

636
00:28:07,878 --> 00:28:10,878
Speaker 4: opens up so much. And so again, you're right, he's

637
00:28:10,918 --> 00:28:13,198
Speaker 4: a thinking kind of a guy. Is not just a thrower.

638
00:28:13,758 --> 00:28:16,998
Speaker 4: He has ability to pitch with all kinds of magnificent weapons.

639
00:28:17,238 --> 00:28:18,358
Speaker 2: Yeah, keep an eye on now.

640
00:28:18,398 --> 00:28:21,238
Speaker 1: I'm just looking up the numbers here, Joe against lefties

641
00:28:21,358 --> 00:28:25,278
Speaker 1: on pitches away outer half of the plate one eighty

642
00:28:25,718 --> 00:28:28,238
Speaker 1: on pitchers inner half of the plate one ninety.

643
00:28:28,838 --> 00:28:29,278
Speaker 3: There you go.

644
00:28:29,478 --> 00:28:35,278
Speaker 1: I mean, he just covers every quadrant in every shape. Yeah,

645
00:28:35,398 --> 00:28:38,158
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just he's a nightmare for me to watch.

646
00:28:38,198 --> 00:28:40,198
Speaker 1: I used to think Pedro Martinez had the best put

647
00:28:40,198 --> 00:28:42,958
Speaker 1: away stuff I ever had, because he had three elite

648
00:28:42,958 --> 00:28:46,318
Speaker 1: pitches that he would throw with equal confidence with skeins.

649
00:28:46,358 --> 00:28:47,758
Speaker 1: It's just you never know what's coming.

650
00:28:47,838 --> 00:28:49,438
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make sure I watch his next start. I'll

651
00:28:49,518 --> 00:28:51,078
Speaker 3: check it. Do you know when he's starting again? Is it? Well?

652
00:28:51,078 --> 00:28:53,438
Speaker 1: He pitched Sunday and generally they're gonna keep him on

653
00:28:53,478 --> 00:28:54,918
Speaker 1: the sixth day, so it should be coming up this

654
00:28:54,958 --> 00:28:55,838
Speaker 1: weekend of Friday.

655
00:28:55,918 --> 00:28:57,638
Speaker 3: Okay, yep, check, I'm gonna check it out.

656
00:28:57,998 --> 00:28:59,998
Speaker 1: And speaking we mentioned we're talking about the best of

657
00:29:00,038 --> 00:29:02,158
Speaker 1: the best and here the best team in baseball.

658
00:29:02,238 --> 00:29:03,878
Speaker 2: Maybe we put that in quotes the La Dot.

659
00:29:05,878 --> 00:29:08,518
Speaker 1: I'm on your take on the Dodgers, Joe, because I'm

660
00:29:08,598 --> 00:29:11,918
Speaker 1: not impressed. Listen, they're a good team. Don't get me wrong,

661
00:29:12,158 --> 00:29:13,918
Speaker 1: Dodgers are one of the best teams. I'd still think

662
00:29:13,918 --> 00:29:16,358
Speaker 1: they're the favorites to win the World Series. But they're

663
00:29:16,358 --> 00:29:18,278
Speaker 1: not the juggernaut that we thought we were going to

664
00:29:18,358 --> 00:29:21,198
Speaker 1: see this year, right. I mean, obviously a big part

665
00:29:21,198 --> 00:29:24,918
Speaker 1: of that is injuries. The Dodgers have run through thirty

666
00:29:24,958 --> 00:29:29,038
Speaker 1: pitchers to cover sixty seven games. I mean, that's just ridiculous.

667
00:29:30,198 --> 00:29:31,798
Speaker 1: Give me your take on the Dodgers and what you

668
00:29:31,838 --> 00:29:35,358
Speaker 1: see here. It's hard, I understand to evaluate them because

669
00:29:35,358 --> 00:29:39,278
Speaker 1: they're working through so many injuries. Offense is carrying this team.

670
00:29:39,358 --> 00:29:41,718
Speaker 1: They're scoring more runs per game than any team in baseball.

671
00:29:41,798 --> 00:29:44,598
Speaker 1: But give me your kind of thirty thousand foot view

672
00:29:44,598 --> 00:29:46,518
Speaker 1: here on the La Dodgers and where they're at.

673
00:29:46,878 --> 00:29:49,238
Speaker 4: You know, the fact that they did last year, all

674
00:29:49,278 --> 00:29:53,358
Speaker 4: the preseason hype about them, there's a certain little hangover

675
00:29:53,398 --> 00:29:56,198
Speaker 4: that they're still experiencing. In general terms, however, it's been

676
00:29:56,238 --> 00:29:59,478
Speaker 4: exacerbated by the pitching the pitching. I think if they

677
00:29:59,478 --> 00:30:02,238
Speaker 4: have their regular guys out there all the time, well healthy,

678
00:30:02,678 --> 00:30:04,798
Speaker 4: you would see a more dominant for foremans on their

679
00:30:04,878 --> 00:30:06,838
Speaker 4: on their side if they're scoring that many points.

680
00:30:07,718 --> 00:30:10,318
Speaker 3: They're pitching has been I watched once in a while.

681
00:30:10,518 --> 00:30:13,958
Speaker 4: You know, Gonsolin looks just stillkaman uh Snell being out,

682
00:30:13,958 --> 00:30:16,478
Speaker 4: all these guys being hurt, it's different. They just don't

683
00:30:16,478 --> 00:30:18,758
Speaker 4: have their regular guys out there, and you have to God,

684
00:30:18,798 --> 00:30:22,318
Speaker 4: I can't even imagine spreading that many pitchers out over

685
00:30:22,358 --> 00:30:26,478
Speaker 4: this part of the season, this this early this season,

686
00:30:26,518 --> 00:30:28,598
Speaker 4: have that many guys towing a rubber for you. That's

687
00:30:28,678 --> 00:30:31,638
Speaker 4: that's a difficult concept of thoughts. So I think part

688
00:30:31,638 --> 00:30:34,358
Speaker 4: of it is that the fact that they the hype

689
00:30:34,398 --> 00:30:36,398
Speaker 4: and what they had done last year, all that stuff.

690
00:30:36,438 --> 00:30:39,158
Speaker 4: The other part is everybody's shooting for them. I mean,

691
00:30:40,078 --> 00:30:41,678
Speaker 4: you come in to play the Dodgers. I mean, the

692
00:30:41,678 --> 00:30:44,998
Speaker 4: Angel swept them this year and that's like unheard of

693
00:30:45,318 --> 00:30:45,918
Speaker 4: at any time.

694
00:30:45,958 --> 00:30:47,278
Speaker 3: But they came in a sweep them.

695
00:30:47,358 --> 00:30:50,518
Speaker 4: So there's there's there's a certain uh like maybe playing

696
00:30:50,598 --> 00:30:53,638
Speaker 4: to their level of competition right now, they just haven't like.

697
00:30:53,638 --> 00:30:55,758
Speaker 3: Fully engaged overall.

698
00:30:56,758 --> 00:30:58,438
Speaker 4: They will, Like you said, I think they will at

699
00:30:58,558 --> 00:31:00,318
Speaker 4: some point right now, but there's a lot of little

700
00:31:00,798 --> 00:31:04,278
Speaker 4: like shin kicking kind of things that are going on there,

701
00:31:04,478 --> 00:31:06,638
Speaker 4: just keeping them from getting to the point where they

702
00:31:06,718 --> 00:31:08,918
Speaker 4: everybody believes that they can be. I think it starts

703
00:31:08,958 --> 00:31:12,438
Speaker 4: with the pitching, obviously, and I think again, I know,

704
00:31:12,438 --> 00:31:14,758
Speaker 4: if I'm playing the Dodgers right now, I'm definitely gonna

705
00:31:14,758 --> 00:31:17,758
Speaker 4: be jacked up about that whole thing and probably going

706
00:31:17,838 --> 00:31:20,478
Speaker 4: to play a little bit above my skis because I

707
00:31:20,518 --> 00:31:22,758
Speaker 4: want to beat them. You always want to beat the best.

708
00:31:22,758 --> 00:31:23,478
Speaker 3: So there's there's a.

709
00:31:23,598 --> 00:31:26,758
Speaker 4: Conspiratory thing going on with a lot of different stuff.

710
00:31:27,198 --> 00:31:29,038
Speaker 4: But I think there's a hangover component to it.

711
00:31:29,358 --> 00:31:31,958
Speaker 3: I do. I've experienced it. I've been part of that.

712
00:31:32,558 --> 00:31:34,838
Speaker 4: And then I think that the pitching is so important

713
00:31:34,838 --> 00:31:39,118
Speaker 4: to their success. And then finally, competitively speaking, everybody wants

714
00:31:39,158 --> 00:31:39,598
Speaker 4: to beat them.

715
00:31:39,878 --> 00:31:42,798
Speaker 1: I love that last point, Joe. We're seeing that with

716
00:31:42,878 --> 00:31:45,038
Speaker 1: San Diego. San Diego has been that way for a while,

717
00:31:45,118 --> 00:31:47,238
Speaker 1: right The Padres love to look them in the eye.

718
00:31:47,318 --> 00:31:48,958
Speaker 1: I mean to borrow from the ads in the back

719
00:31:48,958 --> 00:31:50,758
Speaker 1: of the comic books in the old days, they're kicking

720
00:31:50,758 --> 00:31:53,078
Speaker 1: sand in their face, where those Charles at let's adds

721
00:31:53,558 --> 00:31:58,038
Speaker 1: had some muscle. Yeah, that's the padres man. They're not

722
00:31:58,078 --> 00:32:01,358
Speaker 1: intimidated by the Dodgers. You know, it's a great series

723
00:32:01,398 --> 00:32:03,838
Speaker 1: every time they play. But I think you're right. Teams,

724
00:32:03,838 --> 00:32:06,398
Speaker 1: the Angels or anybody look at the Dodgers right now

725
00:32:06,438 --> 00:32:10,238
Speaker 1: and rightfully so say that team is not a juggernaut.

726
00:32:10,438 --> 00:32:13,358
Speaker 1: They're gettible. The Dodgers are gettable. And again I'm not

727
00:32:13,678 --> 00:32:15,438
Speaker 1: gonna be like they're not a good team. They're a

728
00:32:15,438 --> 00:32:18,158
Speaker 1: really good team, but they're not a juggernaut. Let me

729
00:32:18,198 --> 00:32:20,598
Speaker 1: just throw some numbers here at you, Joe. We mentioned

730
00:32:20,878 --> 00:32:25,718
Speaker 1: the pitching injuries. They're tied with the Marlins for the

731
00:32:25,758 --> 00:32:30,478
Speaker 1: fewest innings per start. They get four point seven innings

732
00:32:30,518 --> 00:32:33,478
Speaker 1: per start on average. Their starters throw an average of

733
00:32:33,558 --> 00:32:36,518
Speaker 1: eighty pitches to start. Only the White Sox at seventy nine,

734
00:32:37,038 --> 00:32:41,518
Speaker 1: are out there less than Dodgers starters. They're fifteen and

735
00:32:41,598 --> 00:32:45,278
Speaker 1: fifteen in their last thirty games. They are nine and

736
00:32:45,358 --> 00:32:48,878
Speaker 1: eleven against left handed pitching. That's certainly something I think

737
00:32:48,958 --> 00:32:51,678
Speaker 1: some team in the postseason might be able to exploit.

738
00:32:51,758 --> 00:32:54,438
Speaker 1: I'd much rather throw a lefty against the Dodgers. They're

739
00:32:54,598 --> 00:32:58,238
Speaker 1: sixteen and fourteen against teams with a winning record. They've

740
00:32:58,278 --> 00:33:00,358
Speaker 1: had an easy schedule, that's not a lot of games.

741
00:33:00,398 --> 00:33:04,878
Speaker 1: Sixteen and fourteen. The Pirates have as many wins against

742
00:33:04,918 --> 00:33:08,358
Speaker 1: winning teams as the Dodgers. Let me say that again,

743
00:33:08,598 --> 00:33:11,678
Speaker 1: the Pirates have as many wins against winning teams as

744
00:33:11,758 --> 00:33:15,358
Speaker 1: do the La Dodgers. They're also, by the way, the

745
00:33:15,518 --> 00:33:21,038
Speaker 1: oldest team in baseball. This is the second oldest Dodger

746
00:33:21,158 --> 00:33:22,238
Speaker 1: team in baseball.

747
00:33:22,278 --> 00:33:23,878
Speaker 2: The only older Dodger.

748
00:33:23,598 --> 00:33:29,038
Speaker 1: Team the nineteen twenty five Brooklyn Robbins who went sixty

749
00:33:29,078 --> 00:33:33,998
Speaker 1: eight and eighty five. So you know, listen, San Diego second,

750
00:33:34,038 --> 00:33:35,558
Speaker 1: by the way in terms of the oldest team and

751
00:33:35,598 --> 00:33:37,358
Speaker 1: the Phillies or third age.

752
00:33:37,358 --> 00:33:38,998
Speaker 2: What does that mean experience?

753
00:33:39,078 --> 00:33:41,918
Speaker 1: Yeah, but generally means more susceptible to injuries as well.

754
00:33:42,038 --> 00:33:45,198
Speaker 1: I just think again, Joe, I'm not making any final

755
00:33:45,598 --> 00:33:48,518
Speaker 1: consensus opinions on whether Dodgers win the World Series or not.

756
00:33:48,558 --> 00:33:52,198
Speaker 1: I'm just saying their road to October is going to

757
00:33:52,318 --> 00:33:53,238
Speaker 1: be rocky.

758
00:33:53,318 --> 00:33:55,998
Speaker 2: It is rocky. They're not going to run away from

759
00:33:55,998 --> 00:33:57,198
Speaker 2: the Padres.

760
00:33:56,998 --> 00:34:00,038
Speaker 1: And maybe not even the Giants, but they're they're in

761
00:34:00,078 --> 00:34:02,518
Speaker 1: a race that I expect them the win. But this

762
00:34:02,598 --> 00:34:04,278
Speaker 1: is not the one hundred and ten wins team. We

763
00:34:04,278 --> 00:34:05,398
Speaker 1: thought we were getting.

764
00:34:05,358 --> 00:34:07,638
Speaker 4: The Road's Rocky. How many times have they played the

765
00:34:07,718 --> 00:34:09,518
Speaker 4: Rockies this year? I mean, look at that that record

766
00:34:09,598 --> 00:34:12,158
Speaker 4: over the right, I mean, that whole n West. I mean,

767
00:34:12,198 --> 00:34:15,958
Speaker 4: that's they're all benefiting from that somehow. But to pitch

768
00:34:16,118 --> 00:34:18,158
Speaker 4: four point seven eighty pitches per.

769
00:34:18,078 --> 00:34:19,638
Speaker 3: Start, that's so hard.

770
00:34:20,118 --> 00:34:22,278
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, just I'm just thinking about that

771
00:34:22,438 --> 00:34:24,478
Speaker 4: on a managerial perspective. I mean, when you have to

772
00:34:24,598 --> 00:34:28,158
Speaker 4: when you have to suck up that many bullpen innings

773
00:34:28,198 --> 00:34:31,518
Speaker 4: every night and try to piece it together successfully, somebody,

774
00:34:31,638 --> 00:34:34,158
Speaker 4: somebody's gonna have a bad night. That's to me. It

775
00:34:34,238 --> 00:34:38,038
Speaker 4: starts right there. Obviously, the left handed pitching thing is

776
00:34:38,078 --> 00:34:38,678
Speaker 4: a concern.

777
00:34:39,038 --> 00:34:39,998
Speaker 3: I agree with you on that.

778
00:34:39,998 --> 00:34:41,598
Speaker 4: Then you'd have to like match it up against the

779
00:34:41,638 --> 00:34:45,198
Speaker 4: opposition potentially who has good left tennant starters. But those

780
00:34:45,238 --> 00:34:47,478
Speaker 4: other teams definitely gonna have to have some lefties coming

781
00:34:47,478 --> 00:34:49,838
Speaker 4: out of the bullpen, but left handed starters. Who are

782
00:34:49,838 --> 00:34:52,958
Speaker 4: the dominant left handed starters within the National League right now,

783
00:34:52,958 --> 00:34:55,038
Speaker 4: et cetera. And how do they match up eventually in

784
00:34:55,038 --> 00:34:56,998
Speaker 4: the playoffs against the Dodgers. That would be for me,

785
00:34:57,078 --> 00:34:59,518
Speaker 4: the front office I'm sure they're on that right now.

786
00:34:59,638 --> 00:35:02,558
Speaker 4: You know the record against winning teams, it's it's really strange, man.

787
00:35:02,998 --> 00:35:05,878
Speaker 4: But again, everybody they got a target under back right now,

788
00:35:05,878 --> 00:35:08,678
Speaker 4: they've got to target. They're less stand a little bit.

789
00:35:08,838 --> 00:35:11,998
Speaker 4: And again based on the typically the Dodgers always known

790
00:35:11,998 --> 00:35:14,558
Speaker 4: for their pitching, and they're just they're just they're short

791
00:35:14,558 --> 00:35:16,438
Speaker 4: there right now. So there's you're right, there's a lot

792
00:35:16,438 --> 00:35:18,758
Speaker 4: of reasons why. You know, the coronation is not the

793
00:35:18,758 --> 00:35:20,918
Speaker 4: Dodgers are going to do this. No, there's a lot

794
00:35:20,958 --> 00:35:24,638
Speaker 4: of competition out there, and if they don't get their pitching, well,

795
00:35:25,318 --> 00:35:26,558
Speaker 4: I don't think it's gonna happen for them.

796
00:35:26,878 --> 00:35:28,838
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say, And you know this, and your

797
00:35:28,838 --> 00:35:32,638
Speaker 1: team's always played this way, Joe too. They're great finishers.

798
00:35:32,958 --> 00:35:35,318
Speaker 1: Know these veteran teams, they know the length of the season.

799
00:35:35,558 --> 00:35:37,358
Speaker 1: They know when they have to put the pedal to

800
00:35:37,398 --> 00:35:40,918
Speaker 1: the floor, and they do respond that. There's never and

801
00:35:40,998 --> 00:35:44,078
Speaker 1: I hate the word panic. Major league players do not panic.

802
00:35:44,118 --> 00:35:46,158
Speaker 1: The media just loves to throw that word around.

803
00:35:46,198 --> 00:35:48,918
Speaker 2: Well he didn't panic. Well, yeah, no, they don't panic.

804
00:35:49,318 --> 00:35:51,758
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is the Dodgers have an understanding

805
00:35:51,798 --> 00:35:53,878
Speaker 1: of the length of the season. Having gone through it

806
00:35:53,998 --> 00:35:57,438
Speaker 1: so many times with its basically same group of guys,

807
00:35:58,638 --> 00:36:01,198
Speaker 1: I expect them to play better, you know.

808
00:36:01,158 --> 00:36:02,758
Speaker 2: Whether they get fully healthy or not.

809
00:36:02,878 --> 00:36:06,198
Speaker 1: Who knows about as like Tyler Glass now Blake Snell,

810
00:36:06,678 --> 00:36:09,398
Speaker 1: whether they're coming back. We've seen Clayton Kershaw come back

811
00:36:09,398 --> 00:36:11,598
Speaker 1: and the stuff. His last start was actually okay, it

812
00:36:11,678 --> 00:36:13,718
Speaker 1: was much better. He finally found some spin on his

813
00:36:13,758 --> 00:36:16,318
Speaker 1: breaking ball. But you know, he's sitting at eighty nine ninety.

814
00:36:16,318 --> 00:36:17,038
Speaker 2: He is what he is.

815
00:36:17,078 --> 00:36:18,838
Speaker 1: I don't think you want to rely on him starting

816
00:36:18,838 --> 00:36:21,398
Speaker 1: Game one or two in a postseason series, but he's

817
00:36:21,438 --> 00:36:23,958
Speaker 1: there to help. So we'll see about the La Dodgers.

818
00:36:23,998 --> 00:36:26,118
Speaker 1: I can't say I'm worried Joe. But if I'm the

819
00:36:26,118 --> 00:36:29,758
Speaker 1: Padres and you're seeing them right now, you're seeing a

820
00:36:29,758 --> 00:36:30,598
Speaker 1: team that's gettable.

821
00:36:30,798 --> 00:36:33,638
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you got the teams within their division, you know,

822
00:36:33,678 --> 00:36:36,678
Speaker 4: the Padres of course to what they're doing. Then the Giants,

823
00:36:36,718 --> 00:36:38,798
Speaker 4: I mean the Giants have been playing some good baseball too.

824
00:36:38,798 --> 00:36:39,838
Speaker 3: Then you go to the other side.

825
00:36:39,878 --> 00:36:42,198
Speaker 4: You got the Mets in the Phillies on the other

826
00:36:42,278 --> 00:36:45,638
Speaker 4: coast right now, and there's there's the there's there's a

827
00:36:45,718 --> 00:36:48,958
Speaker 4: there's suitors, there there's there's definitely people that are able

828
00:36:48,998 --> 00:36:51,438
Speaker 4: to dethron them, and the other teams are really I

829
00:36:51,478 --> 00:36:54,398
Speaker 4: hate to use the word hungry, err, but they might be.

830
00:36:54,598 --> 00:36:56,158
Speaker 4: You know, they like you said, you suggest that the

831
00:36:56,158 --> 00:36:59,758
Speaker 4: Padres the Giants, I know that they got something to

832
00:36:59,838 --> 00:37:02,718
Speaker 4: prove there too, and they they're fade now they're back.

833
00:37:02,798 --> 00:37:05,318
Speaker 4: I mean, there's there's these other teams out there. They

834
00:37:05,318 --> 00:37:08,558
Speaker 4: want that crown and they're they you know, the keep

835
00:37:08,598 --> 00:37:11,238
Speaker 4: getting the sad kicked and their faces suggested it earlier.

836
00:37:11,438 --> 00:37:14,078
Speaker 4: They're over that. They're all over that, man. So I

837
00:37:14,118 --> 00:37:18,078
Speaker 4: think there's plenty of competition right now. And again I

838
00:37:18,078 --> 00:37:20,518
Speaker 4: get what you said. I've been a part of that

839
00:37:20,558 --> 00:37:22,998
Speaker 4: and I used to really be aware of that. But

840
00:37:23,078 --> 00:37:25,758
Speaker 4: the teams that I had is that really be aware

841
00:37:25,798 --> 00:37:27,918
Speaker 4: of playing your better baseball in the latter part of

842
00:37:27,918 --> 00:37:30,598
Speaker 4: the season. For me, that was resting more guys earlier

843
00:37:30,598 --> 00:37:32,518
Speaker 4: in the year. But I don't even know. I just

844
00:37:32,558 --> 00:37:36,038
Speaker 4: think that the competition is it's looking kind of equal,

845
00:37:36,238 --> 00:37:38,558
Speaker 4: I mean, or even better than for some of these teams.

846
00:37:38,558 --> 00:37:41,158
Speaker 4: And so it's just not a lock for the Dodgers.

847
00:37:41,718 --> 00:37:43,798
Speaker 4: They do have to get those guys well, but the

848
00:37:43,838 --> 00:37:46,278
Speaker 4: other teams are not going to take it anymore kind

849
00:37:46,278 --> 00:37:47,718
Speaker 4: of a thing, and I think it's going to be interesting.

850
00:37:47,798 --> 00:37:49,158
Speaker 1: Hey, we're going to take a quick break on the

851
00:37:49,198 --> 00:37:50,318
Speaker 1: Book of Joe when we get back.

852
00:37:50,358 --> 00:37:51,958
Speaker 2: I can't wait to talk to Joe about this.

853
00:37:52,718 --> 00:37:56,678
Speaker 1: When umpires throw out players and do it very quickly.

854
00:37:57,558 --> 00:38:00,078
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's a favorite topic of his and all managers.

855
00:38:00,118 --> 00:38:02,398
Speaker 1: We'll dive into that right after this on the Book

856
00:38:02,438 --> 00:38:08,718
Speaker 1: of Joe.

857
00:38:13,918 --> 00:38:16,078
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Joe.

858
00:38:16,078 --> 00:38:18,958
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you saw the ejection of Nico

859
00:38:19,078 --> 00:38:21,678
Speaker 1: Horner the other day that comes infielder was thrown out

860
00:38:21,838 --> 00:38:24,638
Speaker 1: by Derek Thomas, the umpire, and man, was it quick.

861
00:38:25,038 --> 00:38:28,398
Speaker 1: It was a strike three call, kind of a borderline call.

862
00:38:28,758 --> 00:38:32,478
Speaker 1: You know, it happens, player doesn't like it. He turned

863
00:38:32,478 --> 00:38:35,638
Speaker 1: around and he said to the umpire you're having a

864
00:38:35,678 --> 00:38:36,438
Speaker 1: bad day.

865
00:38:36,718 --> 00:38:39,078
Speaker 2: And boom he was gone like that.

866
00:38:39,238 --> 00:38:43,158
Speaker 1: No profanity, it was all g rated stuff. I mean,

867
00:38:43,958 --> 00:38:45,798
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure you've been through this, Joe. Where

868
00:38:45,798 --> 00:38:49,518
Speaker 1: Craig Counsel comes out. Obviously, he's livid because you know,

869
00:38:49,638 --> 00:38:51,518
Speaker 1: a manager, what he really wants to do is get

870
00:38:51,558 --> 00:38:55,038
Speaker 1: out there quickly enough before things really get heated and

871
00:38:55,078 --> 00:38:57,718
Speaker 1: you lose your player, right, It's the one thing managers

872
00:38:57,838 --> 00:39:01,038
Speaker 1: never want to lose their player, especially you know, one

873
00:39:01,038 --> 00:39:03,758
Speaker 1: of your main guys. He couldn't get out there even

874
00:39:03,958 --> 00:39:06,878
Speaker 1: close to being quickly enough. So then counts got run

875
00:39:06,918 --> 00:39:08,918
Speaker 1: as well, because you have to at that point. But yeah,

876
00:39:08,958 --> 00:39:12,398
Speaker 1: give you your take on that, because first of all,

877
00:39:13,518 --> 00:39:16,278
Speaker 1: I love the inventiveness of Nico Horner's saying, man, you're

878
00:39:16,278 --> 00:39:18,358
Speaker 1: having a really bad day and then paying the price

879
00:39:18,398 --> 00:39:20,198
Speaker 1: for it quickly. I thought it was too quick of

880
00:39:20,238 --> 00:39:22,358
Speaker 1: a hook, but you never know what these umpires, what

881
00:39:22,398 --> 00:39:22,998
Speaker 1: can trigger them.

882
00:39:23,078 --> 00:39:25,318
Speaker 3: That's so good. That's a Stanford boy right there, Nico.

883
00:39:25,558 --> 00:39:28,958
Speaker 4: So I mean I giggled salad coming from him because

884
00:39:28,958 --> 00:39:31,198
Speaker 4: he doesn't say a whole lot. But then when he

885
00:39:31,238 --> 00:39:33,798
Speaker 4: does say it, he got right to the point. There

886
00:39:33,878 --> 00:39:36,678
Speaker 4: was a time that an up partly kicked Ben Zoeberst

887
00:39:36,718 --> 00:39:38,838
Speaker 4: out of the game. It was Phil Couzy, and it

888
00:39:38,918 --> 00:39:42,158
Speaker 4: was a pitch that was a bad pitch, and then

889
00:39:42,238 --> 00:39:45,358
Speaker 4: Zoe started arguing in his Zoe way, which is very polite,

890
00:39:45,958 --> 00:39:48,638
Speaker 4: and eventually he gets kicked out of the game, maybe

891
00:39:48,638 --> 00:39:50,798
Speaker 4: not as quickly as Nico, But I told Phil, I said,

892
00:39:50,838 --> 00:39:54,158
Speaker 4: you realize you just kicked Ben Zoeberst out of the game.

893
00:39:54,758 --> 00:39:57,278
Speaker 4: I said, do understand what that means like in the

894
00:39:57,318 --> 00:40:01,238
Speaker 4: afterlife for you? Right now, it's just guys like a

895
00:40:01,278 --> 00:40:01,998
Speaker 4: guy like Nico.

896
00:40:02,318 --> 00:40:02,958
Speaker 3: If it's a.

897
00:40:02,838 --> 00:40:05,918
Speaker 4: Constant complaint, yeah, maybe you could be a little bit

898
00:40:05,998 --> 00:40:08,278
Speaker 4: quicker if the guy's been the player has been on

899
00:40:08,358 --> 00:40:11,678
Speaker 4: you for a bit, different series, different times, whatever. I

900
00:40:11,718 --> 00:40:15,198
Speaker 4: could see somewhat of a quicker ejection. But Nico, he

901
00:40:15,238 --> 00:40:18,798
Speaker 4: doesn't say anything. Zoe never said anything. It's just really you,

902
00:40:18,958 --> 00:40:23,638
Speaker 4: these these umpires sometimes like bucking Bob Davidson, he would

903
00:40:23,678 --> 00:40:25,758
Speaker 4: just could have just laughed at that. Bob would have

904
00:40:25,798 --> 00:40:27,198
Speaker 4: laughed at that. He and I used to laugh at

905
00:40:27,278 --> 00:40:29,198
Speaker 4: different things. I told him I loved him. One time

906
00:40:29,238 --> 00:40:30,478
Speaker 4: as he was throwing me out, he said, I love

907
00:40:30,518 --> 00:40:32,558
Speaker 4: you too, and he kicked me out of the game.

908
00:40:33,638 --> 00:40:36,318
Speaker 3: It's just it could be fun that's that was funny.

909
00:40:36,358 --> 00:40:38,158
Speaker 3: Well you just told me there, that was really funny

910
00:40:38,158 --> 00:40:41,478
Speaker 3: because Nik was probably right. But sometimes they do.

911
00:40:42,118 --> 00:40:45,118
Speaker 4: I've been very I'm proud of myself in certain ejections,

912
00:40:45,158 --> 00:40:47,118
Speaker 4: and when I've done that, I have apologized to the

913
00:40:47,198 --> 00:40:50,878
Speaker 4: umpire either that night or the next day. But sometimes

914
00:40:50,878 --> 00:40:53,638
Speaker 4: obviously it's it's deserved this one right here, Come on,

915
00:40:54,278 --> 00:40:55,238
Speaker 4: just laugh a little bit.

916
00:40:55,238 --> 00:40:55,478
Speaker 3: Move on.

917
00:40:56,038 --> 00:40:58,558
Speaker 1: I've always found it interesting and obviously you've been a

918
00:40:58,558 --> 00:41:01,718
Speaker 1: party to way way more of these things conversations if

919
00:41:01,718 --> 00:41:03,918
Speaker 1: you will, then I but it's almost like a part

920
00:41:03,918 --> 00:41:05,278
Speaker 1: parlor game, like.

921
00:41:05,398 --> 00:41:07,038
Speaker 2: How far can you go? What?

922
00:41:07,318 --> 00:41:10,478
Speaker 1: Well, we'll know the magic words right And as as

923
00:41:10,518 --> 00:41:13,838
Speaker 1: you make anything personal, you use that word you, like

924
00:41:13,918 --> 00:41:16,838
Speaker 1: you may say the call stunk or you know, choose

925
00:41:16,838 --> 00:41:20,278
Speaker 1: your adjective of your choosing, but you can't say you

926
00:41:20,518 --> 00:41:22,918
Speaker 1: and making it personal like that you're going to get wrong.

927
00:41:23,638 --> 00:41:26,758
Speaker 2: The right wrong four letter words will get you wrong.

928
00:41:27,038 --> 00:41:28,958
Speaker 1: But did you ever feel that, Joe, Like it's almost

929
00:41:28,958 --> 00:41:31,718
Speaker 1: like a parlor game, Like I understand there are sometimes

930
00:41:31,878 --> 00:41:34,918
Speaker 1: you want to get thrown out, but like how far

931
00:41:35,038 --> 00:41:38,278
Speaker 1: can I go without being thrown out and still making

932
00:41:38,318 --> 00:41:40,198
Speaker 1: my point and by the way, putting out a show?

933
00:41:40,638 --> 00:41:41,758
Speaker 3: Yeah, you tap dance? You do?

934
00:41:41,838 --> 00:41:43,558
Speaker 4: You definitely tap dance. You don't want to say that

935
00:41:43,638 --> 00:41:45,558
Speaker 4: the exact words that you want to you do? You

936
00:41:45,838 --> 00:41:48,038
Speaker 4: avoid the word you as much as you possibly can.

937
00:41:48,478 --> 00:41:51,358
Speaker 4: I went out to there was I think might have

938
00:41:51,398 --> 00:41:55,638
Speaker 4: been a playoff game. Guards is pitching and Gary Shutterstrom

939
00:41:55,718 --> 00:41:57,518
Speaker 4: was the Empire at second base and thought it was

940
00:41:57,518 --> 00:41:59,438
Speaker 4: a Boki did something.

941
00:41:59,518 --> 00:42:01,718
Speaker 3: It was a call, and I got really upset.

942
00:42:01,798 --> 00:42:03,758
Speaker 4: So I walked out to the mound and I started

943
00:42:03,918 --> 00:42:08,038
Speaker 4: screaming at at Garza. I started screaming at him as

944
00:42:08,038 --> 00:42:11,238
Speaker 4: though I was talking to cut Strong and so, you know,

945
00:42:12,118 --> 00:42:13,758
Speaker 4: you know what you're doing, you stink whatever.

946
00:42:13,798 --> 00:42:17,558
Speaker 5: And eventually Gary figured out what I was doing and

947
00:42:17,598 --> 00:42:20,438
Speaker 5: he walked over and he kicks me out because Garza

948
00:42:20,518 --> 00:42:22,438
Speaker 5: put his glove up by his face because he started

949
00:42:22,478 --> 00:42:24,598
Speaker 5: laughing because of course he knew what I was doing.

950
00:42:24,918 --> 00:42:27,198
Speaker 3: So I was arguing with Garz is though he was.

951
00:42:27,158 --> 00:42:31,038
Speaker 4: The umpire, and eventually the umpire caught onto and I

952
00:42:31,078 --> 00:42:33,758
Speaker 4: was ejected from the game. Deservedly so, but that was

953
00:42:34,198 --> 00:42:36,438
Speaker 4: that was one of my more creative moments. I think

954
00:42:36,678 --> 00:42:37,998
Speaker 4: in regards to getting ejected.

955
00:42:38,638 --> 00:42:40,398
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to picture Garza.

956
00:42:40,478 --> 00:42:43,398
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that probably was like maybe the slightest

957
00:42:43,438 --> 00:42:46,558
Speaker 1: moment of panic where his manager is just dreaming them

958
00:42:46,558 --> 00:42:48,998
Speaker 1: out there on the mound till I figure out what

959
00:42:49,118 --> 00:42:50,078
Speaker 1: his manager was up to.

960
00:42:50,438 --> 00:42:52,318
Speaker 4: You know, guards had that big old nose, it's like

961
00:42:52,438 --> 00:42:54,718
Speaker 4: put it over his the glove over his face. And

962
00:42:55,158 --> 00:42:57,158
Speaker 4: he's laughing. All the players are standing there too, and

963
00:42:57,198 --> 00:42:59,318
Speaker 4: they got it real quick. And then Gary caught onto

964
00:42:59,358 --> 00:43:01,118
Speaker 4: the joke and then I was gone.

965
00:43:01,518 --> 00:43:03,558
Speaker 1: Did you ever I'm sure the answer must be yes,

966
00:43:04,198 --> 00:43:07,478
Speaker 1: But go out there with the intention of getting run.

967
00:43:07,638 --> 00:43:09,038
Speaker 3: Oh.

968
00:43:09,078 --> 00:43:11,358
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I was in the min leg xit even till

969
00:43:11,438 --> 00:43:15,758
Speaker 4: umpires before the game. Joe Burrowson once in Midland, I said, listen, man,

970
00:43:16,078 --> 00:43:18,558
Speaker 4: team stinks right now. I'm looking for the first close

971
00:43:18,638 --> 00:43:20,558
Speaker 4: call and I'm going to be out there. I'm going

972
00:43:20,638 --> 00:43:23,878
Speaker 4: to try to avoid any really bad language, but just

973
00:43:23,878 --> 00:43:25,478
Speaker 4: just just get me out of there, kick me out

974
00:43:25,478 --> 00:43:27,518
Speaker 4: of there. And I did it once with Teddy Barrett

975
00:43:27,558 --> 00:43:31,958
Speaker 4: in Denver. Teddy Barrett nicest human being on Earth, Umpire

976
00:43:32,358 --> 00:43:36,598
Speaker 4: good Umpire, a boxer, former Golden Gloves boxer and apprecier.

977
00:43:37,158 --> 00:43:40,198
Speaker 4: I actually offered to marry my daughter Sarah when Sarah

978
00:43:40,238 --> 00:43:44,998
Speaker 4: got married, but I was up something I'll play in Denver.

979
00:43:45,438 --> 00:43:48,038
Speaker 4: This is when the rays of the Devil rays and

980
00:43:48,078 --> 00:43:50,078
Speaker 4: I'm out in the mount On'm yelling and here comes

981
00:43:50,158 --> 00:43:51,358
Speaker 4: Teddy and I turned on to Teddy.

982
00:43:51,358 --> 00:43:52,598
Speaker 3: You got to throw me out of the game.

983
00:43:52,598 --> 00:43:54,838
Speaker 4: He says, Joe. I don't want to, Teddy. You got

984
00:43:54,878 --> 00:43:56,518
Speaker 4: to throw me out of the game, please. I don't

985
00:43:56,518 --> 00:43:58,558
Speaker 4: want to start yelling and stuff. So finally I just

986
00:43:58,598 --> 00:44:00,718
Speaker 4: said something else and Teddy threw me out of the

987
00:44:00,718 --> 00:44:02,918
Speaker 4: game and I left. You know, I did whatever I

988
00:44:02,958 --> 00:44:05,438
Speaker 4: had to do. After the game, he's walking out. I'm

989
00:44:05,438 --> 00:44:07,078
Speaker 4: on the bus in the first seat. I cannot give

990
00:44:07,158 --> 00:44:07,718
Speaker 4: him a big hunt.

991
00:44:07,718 --> 00:44:10,278
Speaker 1: I don't thank you a great story. I love that stuff,

992
00:44:10,718 --> 00:44:13,958
Speaker 1: great stuff inside the game. Speaking of great stuff, Joe,

993
00:44:13,958 --> 00:44:15,718
Speaker 1: you always bring us home with something great.

994
00:44:16,038 --> 00:44:18,718
Speaker 2: What do we got today for our thought of the day?

995
00:44:18,998 --> 00:44:20,878
Speaker 3: I guess it's kind of you know.

996
00:44:20,918 --> 00:44:24,118
Speaker 4: I'm just like, I'm looking at everything that's going on,

997
00:44:24,478 --> 00:44:27,918
Speaker 4: and I think I was focusing on the word tradition

998
00:44:28,118 --> 00:44:30,198
Speaker 4: and traditions, and I was thinking about that, but then

999
00:44:30,638 --> 00:44:34,438
Speaker 4: it worphed into something else for me, because sometimes I

1000
00:44:34,438 --> 00:44:37,198
Speaker 4: love tradition, but sometimes it can become too static and

1001
00:44:37,238 --> 00:44:39,918
Speaker 4: we become unwavering with it. But although I do believe

1002
00:44:39,918 --> 00:44:44,798
Speaker 4: that we get away from them sometimes where there's a foundation, Bill,

1003
00:44:44,838 --> 00:44:48,718
Speaker 4: I'm you know, thinking about here in Hazelton, my Catholic upbringing,

1004
00:44:49,198 --> 00:44:51,478
Speaker 4: you know, family and friends, and I'm still looking out

1005
00:44:51,478 --> 00:44:53,718
Speaker 4: at my golf course where I've played when I was younger,

1006
00:44:53,718 --> 00:44:58,198
Speaker 4: but it worphed into the word flexibility, and so I traditionally,

1007
00:44:58,278 --> 00:45:01,318
Speaker 4: I think traditions are you know, foundational, but there also

1008
00:45:01,318 --> 00:45:03,238
Speaker 4: has to be it's got to be a flexibility because

1009
00:45:03,278 --> 00:45:06,798
Speaker 4: sometimes they do run their course. But so I went

1010
00:45:06,838 --> 00:45:09,958
Speaker 4: in with flexibility today and then it was a great line.

1011
00:45:09,998 --> 00:45:13,838
Speaker 4: And because I've always believed that as a manager, as

1012
00:45:13,838 --> 00:45:18,358
Speaker 4: a coach, being flexible on a daily basis, whether it's

1013
00:45:18,358 --> 00:45:22,678
Speaker 4: like in your hitting instruction, like the batting practice, sometimes

1014
00:45:22,718 --> 00:45:25,958
Speaker 4: there's a machine, sometimes they threw from an angle, sometimes

1015
00:45:25,958 --> 00:45:29,238
Speaker 4: there was no batting practice. You would bury your methods

1016
00:45:29,238 --> 00:45:31,078
Speaker 4: on a daily basis, so the unit to become stale.

1017
00:45:31,558 --> 00:45:34,998
Speaker 4: And John would flexibility is the key to stability. And

1018
00:45:35,078 --> 00:45:39,318
Speaker 4: I love that because again by remaining flexible and trying

1019
00:45:39,358 --> 00:45:41,198
Speaker 4: to do the same thing in another way, saying the

1020
00:45:41,198 --> 00:45:43,958
Speaker 4: same thing in other words kind of like exercises the

1021
00:45:44,038 --> 00:45:47,278
Speaker 4: mind and it makes it more creative or interesting. So

1022
00:45:47,838 --> 00:45:51,878
Speaker 4: John Wooden, flexibility is the key to stability. I've read

1023
00:45:51,918 --> 00:45:53,998
Speaker 4: his books, like, I actually sat up about this. I

1024
00:45:53,998 --> 00:45:57,758
Speaker 4: sat with coach Woulden't in my office and Anaheim. I

1025
00:45:57,758 --> 00:45:59,678
Speaker 4: can't remember the year it was. I was a bench coach,

1026
00:46:00,158 --> 00:46:02,878
Speaker 4: big baseball fan, so he and I said in this

1027
00:46:02,998 --> 00:46:04,838
Speaker 4: was kind of a conference was my office, and I

1028
00:46:04,878 --> 00:46:06,878
Speaker 4: sat across the table just he and I for about

1029
00:46:07,238 --> 00:46:10,118
Speaker 4: half an hour just talking. He loved baseball, so that

1030
00:46:10,238 --> 00:46:12,158
Speaker 4: was like one of my highlights of my life. And

1031
00:46:12,158 --> 00:46:15,118
Speaker 4: then just to dovetail edges quickly. But Colin Powell is

1032
00:46:15,118 --> 00:46:17,958
Speaker 4: another one of my favorites. I read the autobiography. He

1033
00:46:18,038 --> 00:46:21,598
Speaker 4: always talked about being a force multiplier, and he talked

1034
00:46:21,598 --> 00:46:26,638
Speaker 4: about allegiance to the leader, the president. We might disagree

1035
00:46:26,638 --> 00:46:28,038
Speaker 4: with him, but the end of the day is going

1036
00:46:28,078 --> 00:46:30,438
Speaker 4: to support him. He's got his back. But he said

1037
00:46:30,518 --> 00:46:33,598
Speaker 4: leaders honor their core values, but are flexible and how

1038
00:46:33,598 --> 00:46:34,718
Speaker 4: they execute them.

1039
00:46:34,798 --> 00:46:37,038
Speaker 3: So I love the word flexibility.

1040
00:46:37,398 --> 00:46:38,718
Speaker 4: I know what I know, and I know what I

1041
00:46:38,758 --> 00:46:42,118
Speaker 4: believe in and we all do, but you still have

1042
00:46:42,118 --> 00:46:44,198
Speaker 4: to remain flexible in regards to how are you going

1043
00:46:44,278 --> 00:46:46,078
Speaker 4: to implement this or how we're going to get our

1044
00:46:46,118 --> 00:46:49,358
Speaker 4: point across. So I don't know, somehow might cover what

1045
00:46:49,358 --> 00:46:51,118
Speaker 4: we talked about today, but I'm really big on that

1046
00:46:51,158 --> 00:46:53,998
Speaker 4: word flexibility, and today's just resonated for me.

1047
00:46:54,278 --> 00:46:57,158
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you brought up John Wooden. Yeah, he

1048
00:46:57,198 --> 00:46:59,078
Speaker 1: was a huge baseball fan. I got to meet him

1049
00:46:59,118 --> 00:47:02,878
Speaker 1: once at Angel Stadium. Actually he carried around these cards

1050
00:47:02,958 --> 00:47:06,518
Speaker 1: with his pyramid success and back in the day he

1051
00:47:06,638 --> 00:47:09,198
Speaker 1: used to live if they were not next door neighbors,

1052
00:47:09,318 --> 00:47:12,678
Speaker 1: same neighborhood as Vin Scully. How about that Vin Scully

1053
00:47:12,798 --> 00:47:16,198
Speaker 1: and John Wooden living next to each other. And it's

1054
00:47:16,318 --> 00:47:18,998
Speaker 1: just interesting, Joe, that how many times do we come

1055
00:47:19,038 --> 00:47:22,718
Speaker 1: back to the theme of balance, right, And that's what

1056
00:47:22,798 --> 00:47:24,918
Speaker 1: you just reminded me. Here this quote from John Wooden

1057
00:47:24,958 --> 00:47:26,838
Speaker 1: about flexibility and stability.

1058
00:47:27,358 --> 00:47:29,038
Speaker 2: It really is about balance.

1059
00:47:29,118 --> 00:47:30,958
Speaker 1: We talk a lot here about, you know, sort of

1060
00:47:30,958 --> 00:47:33,638
Speaker 1: the liberal arts background, balancing the left side of the brain,

1061
00:47:33,718 --> 00:47:36,678
Speaker 1: the right side of the brain, balancing data and art,

1062
00:47:37,438 --> 00:47:41,478
Speaker 1: hitting his balance, pitching his balance, and over emphasis on

1063
00:47:41,478 --> 00:47:45,038
Speaker 1: one thing. Probably not really good. Maybe overemphasizing tradition, maybe

1064
00:47:45,118 --> 00:47:48,078
Speaker 1: not very good. So I always come back to your

1065
00:47:48,318 --> 00:47:51,678
Speaker 1: pink flamingo Joe. It's the balance. It's about the balance.

1066
00:47:51,918 --> 00:47:52,278
Speaker 3: It is.

1067
00:47:52,718 --> 00:47:54,158
Speaker 4: He was the centerpoint of a lot of the art

1068
00:47:54,198 --> 00:47:56,518
Speaker 4: that I did. I've been a flamingo guy, pink flamingo

1069
00:47:56,518 --> 00:47:59,718
Speaker 4: guy for long, for many years, but yeah, a balance

1070
00:48:00,518 --> 00:48:02,518
Speaker 4: in our entire life. And I actually wrote like a

1071
00:48:02,878 --> 00:48:05,198
Speaker 4: note to my mom back in the nineteen seventy nine

1072
00:48:05,278 --> 00:48:08,158
Speaker 4: eighty era. I wrote my mom a note, and I

1073
00:48:09,198 --> 00:48:11,358
Speaker 4: wish I could find it immediately, But it was about

1074
00:48:11,478 --> 00:48:14,238
Speaker 4: balance in life, and I wanted her to know how

1075
00:48:14,278 --> 00:48:18,038
Speaker 4: much I appreciated her and and the balance that she

1076
00:48:18,118 --> 00:48:20,998
Speaker 4: created within our lives.

1077
00:48:21,038 --> 00:48:23,198
Speaker 3: It's overlooked. I mean, we become so polar.

1078
00:48:23,958 --> 00:48:28,198
Speaker 4: We think we're always so right and unable to listen

1079
00:48:28,238 --> 00:48:31,798
Speaker 4: to the other side. And compromise is a really important word.

1080
00:48:31,878 --> 00:48:34,518
Speaker 4: So all this stuff is always at the forefront of

1081
00:48:34,558 --> 00:48:37,038
Speaker 4: my mind. And so but I do love the word

1082
00:48:37,078 --> 00:48:37,838
Speaker 4: being flexible.

1083
00:48:38,278 --> 00:48:41,518
Speaker 1: That was actually two quotes of the day. So you're

1084
00:48:41,558 --> 00:48:43,758
Speaker 1: gonna spoil us, Joe. We're gonna expect us every time.

1085
00:48:43,798 --> 00:48:47,518
Speaker 1: Two really good ones from John Wooden and Colinwe those guys.

1086
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Speaker 2: Thanks for that. We'll see you next time on the

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Speaker 2: Book of Joe.

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Speaker 3: See it Tommy, Thanks buddy.

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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.