1
00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,960
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brasso from Bloomberg Radio.

2
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: Last week, twelve Senate Republicans joined Democrats to advance landmark

3
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,360
Speaker 1: legislation to provide federal protections for same sex marriages, putting

4
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,160
Speaker 1: it on track to become law as a last act

5
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,880
Speaker 1: of bipartisanship in the lame duck Congress. Right now, the

6
00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 1: right to same sex marriage is the law, but only

7
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,239
Speaker 1: because of a Supreme Court decision which many fear is

8
00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,760
Speaker 1: now in jeopardy. Why because Justice Clarence Thomas told us

9
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,199
Speaker 1: so in the Dobbs decision, which took away the constitutional

10
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 1: right to abortion. Joining me as a leading expert on

11
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:49,000
Speaker 1: marriage equality and lgbt Q rights, Katherine Frankie, she's director

12
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,360
Speaker 1: of Columbia Law School Center for Gender and Sexuality Law,

13
00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:58,760
Speaker 1: start by telling us what's motivating this push to get

14
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,520
Speaker 1: a same sex marriage bill passed. Well, I think there

15
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,000
Speaker 1: are a few things. One is that many members of

16
00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:10,040
Speaker 1: Congress were overwhelmed by calls from their constituents who were

17
00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,919
Speaker 1: married and in the same sex couples who were terrified

18
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,720
Speaker 1: after the Jobs decision that their kids might be taken away,

19
00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,440
Speaker 1: that their marriages might be dissolved. And what's interesting is

20
00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,039
Speaker 1: the Respect for Marriage Act really came from within Congress

21
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,080
Speaker 1: itself as a response to constituent calls. It didn't come

22
00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,000
Speaker 1: from some of the gay rights organizations around the country.

23
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: So they really were trying to respond to the fear

24
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 1: that they were hearing from their constituents who were afraid

25
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,199
Speaker 1: that their marriages would be dissolved and their kids taken

26
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,360
Speaker 1: from them. And tell us what in that job's decision.

27
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,240
Speaker 1: Was it Justice Clarence Thomas's concurring opinion that led to

28
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,040
Speaker 1: that fear, or was it the decision itself. Well, you

29
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,360
Speaker 1: can always count on Clarence Thomas to say that the

30
00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 1: quiet part out loud, but also the loud party even

31
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,520
Speaker 1: more loudly. And certainly there's no thing in the majority's

32
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 1: opinion that would hinder the Court from taking the next

33
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,240
Speaker 1: steps of finding rights of contraception is nowhere secured in

34
00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,639
Speaker 1: the Constitution, or the same with same sex marriage. Notwithstanding

35
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,920
Speaker 1: Justice Kavanaugh trying to lower the temperature a little bit

36
00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,399
Speaker 1: in his concurrence and saying, oh, no, no, no, we're

37
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,239
Speaker 1: just deciding abortion today. Actually, I'm not sure the other

38
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,200
Speaker 1: members of the majority hold that view. So that's really

39
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,399
Speaker 1: what frightened everyone was was Justice Thomas kind of underscoring

40
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 1: what the potential for the job's decision might hold for

41
00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,360
Speaker 1: other issues around sex and sexuality. Explain what the ol

42
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,480
Speaker 1: Berger Fell decision did well. Ol Berger Fell. Justice Kennedy,

43
00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,200
Speaker 1: writing for a majority of the court, found that there

44
00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,120
Speaker 1: was a constitutional right for same sex couples to marry

45
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,519
Speaker 1: if they were otherwise qualified for uh for a marriage license.

46
00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,120
Speaker 1: And he did so really as a as a matter

47
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:04,119
Speaker 1: of dignity, He's landed the decision not in the explicit

48
00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 1: text of the Constitution, but in the kind of spirit

49
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,400
Speaker 1: of the Constitution. To to shun same sex couples from

50
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:17,200
Speaker 1: the institution of marriage humiliates those couples, and it humiliates

51
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,480
Speaker 1: and frightens their children. For kids who are in families

52
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,960
Speaker 1: with same sex parents, that those parents can't marry also

53
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,720
Speaker 1: sends a message to those children that their parents are

54
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 1: somehow lesser than or um, not as dignified as um.

55
00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 1: Their friends at school who have parents who are in

56
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,760
Speaker 1: different sex relationships and it can marry. So o Burgha

57
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,280
Speaker 1: felt said, just as a kind of matter of constitutional

58
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,160
Speaker 1: fairness and dignity, same sex couples should be allowed to

59
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,280
Speaker 1: marry and states cannot ban same sex couples from getting

60
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:58,960
Speaker 1: marriage licenses. Now, what would this legislation do. The legislation

61
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 1: would not all the way of obergh Felt. So it's

62
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,360
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court next term or two years from now,

63
00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,440
Speaker 1: decides to overrule o Berga Fell. The Respect from Marriage

64
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 1: JACK won't completely fix the problem. What it does do

65
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:18,400
Speaker 1: is it says states have to respect valid marriages from

66
00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 1: other states. So right now, there are thirty five states

67
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,640
Speaker 1: that have laws on the books that banned same sex marriage.

68
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,279
Speaker 1: Those laws are not enforceable because of the obergh Felt decision.

69
00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,839
Speaker 1: But if the Court reverses obergh Felt, what happens to

70
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,160
Speaker 1: those laws in those thirty five states. So in more

71
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,159
Speaker 1: than half the country, same sex couples couldn't marry, but

72
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,719
Speaker 1: they could travel to say New York, California, or other

73
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,320
Speaker 1: states that do allow same sex marriage, get legally married,

74
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,839
Speaker 1: and then go back to their home state, and their

75
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,200
Speaker 1: home state would have to respect those marriages. Now, what

76
00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,279
Speaker 1: the Respect for Marriage JACK does specifically, it says is

77
00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,080
Speaker 1: those states that won't marry same sex couples or interracial

78
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,440
Speaker 1: couples can't refuse to recognize the validity of their marriages

79
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,400
Speaker 1: if the reason that they're refusing to allow those folks

80
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,960
Speaker 1: to marry in their home state is because of the sex, race,

81
00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,919
Speaker 1: national origin, um or ethnicity of the people in those marriages.

82
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,880
Speaker 1: So it also reaches interracial or inter ethnic marriages as

83
00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 1: well beyond same sex marriages. So you know, we have

84
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 1: a long history in this country also a banning um

85
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 1: interracial marriages, and so the idea of this statute is

86
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,800
Speaker 1: to make sure that those laws don't come back in

87
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 1: this more conservative era we're living in. The same sex

88
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:44,479
Speaker 1: Marriage BILLBO wouldn't require states to themselves licensed same sex marriages, No,

89
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,720
Speaker 1: it would not, And that's what the obergh Felt decision required,

90
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 1: is that every state recognize same sex marriages or issue

91
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,440
Speaker 1: marriage licenses to both different and same sex couples. But

92
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 1: the respect for marriage back would not force states that

93
00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,400
Speaker 1: have an objection to same sex marriage to actually marry

94
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 1: them themselves. They just have to respect valid marriages from

95
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 1: other states. And the reason why is that it may

96
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 1: be that Congress doesn't actually have the power to do that.

97
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 1: To require state to marry a range of people, including

98
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,039
Speaker 1: same sex couples, there is specific language in the constitutions

99
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: called the Full faith and credit clause that says the

100
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 1: states have to give the full faith and credit to

101
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,240
Speaker 1: valid laws from other states. And so the ideas with

102
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,480
Speaker 1: this new Respect for Marriage Act is that this would

103
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,320
Speaker 1: fall under the same thing as say, your nursing license

104
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,880
Speaker 1: or your driver's license. You know, when I drive a

105
00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,880
Speaker 1: cross country I don't have to get a new driver's

106
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,880
Speaker 1: license every time I hit the state line. Every state

107
00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,680
Speaker 1: recognizes my New York driver's license. Same should be the

108
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:50,560
Speaker 1: case with the marriage license. So many conservatives are against this.

109
00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,160
Speaker 1: Republican Centator Ted Cruz said it's a threat to religious liberty.

110
00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 1: The i r S will target churches, religious universities, etcetera

111
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,200
Speaker 1: that do not accept as a matter of faith, same

112
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,480
Speaker 1: sex marriage. Well, you know, it's interesting, Ted Cruz has

113
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,960
Speaker 1: a law degree. You would think he might actually read

114
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,160
Speaker 1: the bill. So the version of the Respect for Mary

115
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,920
Speaker 1: Jack that is in the Senate and that was just

116
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,160
Speaker 1: voted on last week has a very broad religious exemption.

117
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,440
Speaker 1: So any religious institution, whether it's an actual church or

118
00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,640
Speaker 1: a religious university or employer for that matter, is given

119
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,760
Speaker 1: an exemption from having to comply with this law. So

120
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 1: that was part of the compromise that was struck in

121
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 1: order to get twelve Republican Senators to vote for the

122
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,480
Speaker 1: Respect for Marriageack was the inclusion of a very fairly

123
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,640
Speaker 1: broad religious exemption that we didn't see in the House

124
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 1: version of the bill. So if the Senate does pass

125
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,760
Speaker 1: this version that was voted on last week, it will

126
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,160
Speaker 1: have to go back to the House before the end

127
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,600
Speaker 1: of this congressional session for them to pass it once again.

128
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 1: Um And approved this broad religious exemption. So I would

129
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 1: encourage Senator Proves to actually read the law before make

130
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 1: you public statements about it. Same sex marriage, as far

131
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,160
Speaker 1: as public opinion is concerned, it's come a long way

132
00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:15,560
Speaker 1: since Stoma was signed. It's astonishing in so many respects

133
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,400
Speaker 1: that same sex marriage and gay rights are more popular

134
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,160
Speaker 1: in the United States and in the United States Congress

135
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,679
Speaker 1: than abortion rights are at this point, or even sex

136
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,280
Speaker 1: equality for that matter. There's also a very important piece

137
00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,880
Speaker 1: of h lawmaking that'spending in the Senate that would finally

138
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:39,240
Speaker 1: ratify the Equal Rights Amendment, adding explicit sex equality language

139
00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,960
Speaker 1: to the U. S Constitution. And we need a pilibuster

140
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 1: proof majority of Senators to approve that legislation, and we're

141
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 1: about six or seven short at this point. But gay

142
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,040
Speaker 1: rights and same sex marriage in particular is polling more

143
00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:03,080
Speaker 1: favorably than our abortion rights or sex equality more generally. Um.

144
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,920
Speaker 1: And I think it's probably no mistake that this vote

145
00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: on the respect from Mayor Jack came on the heels

146
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,880
Speaker 1: of the most recent midterm election, where there's just so

147
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,720
Speaker 1: much hate and kind of off the charts extreme right

148
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,640
Speaker 1: wing rhetoric coming out of so many members of the

149
00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,760
Speaker 1: Republican Party who won in these mid terms, that there's

150
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,560
Speaker 1: some members of the Republican Party who want to signal

151
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,840
Speaker 1: to the public not all of us are as bigoted

152
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 1: and hateful as some of the most extreme members of

153
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 1: our party, and voting for gay rights right now is

154
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,040
Speaker 1: a way to kind of turn down the temperature I

155
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:42,040
Speaker 1: think in the public's eye of where the Republican Party

156
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 1: stands in terms of these kinds of hot button social

157
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 1: justice issues. But do you think it's critical that this

158
00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:54,640
Speaker 1: bill become law before January, before the new Congressional Republicans

159
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 1: take control. Well, yes, for several reasons. I think we've

160
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 1: we've had some pretty extreme people elected to the Senate

161
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 1: that the House is also going to flip with the

162
00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 1: new Congress, And I don't think we could get the

163
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,200
Speaker 1: respect for marriage at through this new more conservative Congress

164
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,199
Speaker 1: like we did with the Democratic led Congress, although by

165
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,240
Speaker 1: its one majority in this current congressional term. Going to

166
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,280
Speaker 1: the Equal Rights Amendment would that take care of the

167
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,840
Speaker 1: problem with restrictions on abortion in states. Well. Including specific

168
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 1: sex equality protections in the Constitution could and should have

169
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,720
Speaker 1: the effect of clarifying a higher standard of scrutiny of

170
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,400
Speaker 1: sexually discriminatory laws like the ban on same sex marriage.

171
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,280
Speaker 1: You know, but for the sex of the person you're

172
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,640
Speaker 1: going to marry, you would not have been denied a

173
00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,160
Speaker 1: marriage license, is the way we would think about it.

174
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,240
Speaker 1: But including the e r A and the Constitution will

175
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,320
Speaker 1: not only fix the same sex marriage problem and render

176
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,240
Speaker 1: bands on same sex marriage unconstitutional, but so to some

177
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,760
Speaker 1: other fundamentally importance to Preme Court decisions to dealt with

178
00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,520
Speaker 1: gay rights, including Lawrence versus Texas from two thousand three,

179
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 1: where the Supreme Court said it was unconstitutional to criminalize

180
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 1: sex between two people of the same sex. So if

181
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,440
Speaker 1: we had the e r A in the Constitution, sex

182
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:23,160
Speaker 1: equality protections in the Constitution, states couldn't recriminalize same sex sects.

183
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 1: If this radical Supreme Court reverses Lawrence versus Texas along

184
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,640
Speaker 1: with a Burga fell. So there are a number of

185
00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 1: ways in which the e r A. Sex equality protections

186
00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:39,640
Speaker 1: would include protections for sexual orientation and gender identity discrimination

187
00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:45,000
Speaker 1: as well. Anti abortion advocates who have been pushing laws

188
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,840
Speaker 1: through states have they been set back a little bit

189
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,560
Speaker 1: by what happened in the mid terms where you know states,

190
00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:57,520
Speaker 1: for example, Kentucky refused to vote for a law that

191
00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,960
Speaker 1: would outlaw abortion absolutely. I think we have known for

192
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,400
Speaker 1: a long time that abortion rights were supported by a

193
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,680
Speaker 1: broad majority of people across the country, and it's just

194
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 1: because of jerrymandering that we have these conservative majorities running

195
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 1: the state legislatures and they've been able to pass these

196
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,600
Speaker 1: anti abortions measures. But seeing abortion on the ballot the

197
00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,679
Speaker 1: way it was in so many states in early November

198
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,880
Speaker 1: and have all of the anti abortion measures go down

199
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,640
Speaker 1: confirms what we thought we knew, which is that those

200
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,920
Speaker 1: kinds of restrictions on access to the full range of

201
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,600
Speaker 1: reproductive health care are not what the American people want,

202
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 1: certainly not what in the majority of the American people want.

203
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,360
Speaker 1: And it also has the effect of taking down some

204
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,400
Speaker 1: of the more radical right members of the Republican Party

205
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,400
Speaker 1: who were running in those midterm elections, and so for

206
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,840
Speaker 1: that reason, I think we're seeing across the country the

207
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,520
Speaker 1: Republican Party candidates looking at the next election kind of

208
00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,680
Speaker 1: regrouping and thinking to what degree do they want to

209
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,160
Speaker 1: send to attacks on abortion rights in their campaigns and platforms,

210
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,480
Speaker 1: since that was a losing proposition this time around. Thanks

211
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,840
Speaker 1: for being on the show, Catherine. That's Catherine Frankie, director

212
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,200
Speaker 1: of Columbia Law Schools Center for Gender and Sexuality Law.

213
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,080
Speaker 1: Texas has transported more than thirteen thousand migrants to New

214
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,920
Speaker 1: York d C in Chicago since April. Now, the state

215
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,800
Speaker 1: has begun transporting migrants to Philadelphia. Governor Greg Abbott sent

216
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,880
Speaker 1: the busses to Democratic led cities as a way to

217
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,480
Speaker 1: maximize exposure over what he says is in action by

218
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,520
Speaker 1: the Biden administration over the high numbers of migrants crossing

219
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,320
Speaker 1: on the southern border. Now Abbott is stepping up his rhetoric.

220
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,960
Speaker 1: Abbott is describing the record number of migrants crossing the

221
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,280
Speaker 1: US Mexico border as an invasion, and Texas will deploy

222
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:56,240
Speaker 1: military armored personnel carriers along its border with Mexico as

223
00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,360
Speaker 1: part of a plan to repel undocumented migrants signing to

224
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 1: enter the United States. My guest is immigration law expertly

225
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,760
Speaker 1: on Fresco A partnered Hondon Knight Leon. Why is Governor

226
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,319
Speaker 1: Abbot using this invasion language? So this is a creative

227
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,800
Speaker 1: way of getting around the problem of United States versus Arizona,

228
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 1: which was that when he drop the pre court decision

229
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,440
Speaker 1: for the court ruled that states basically can't take immigration

230
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,160
Speaker 1: enforcement matters into their own hands and past laws, even

231
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 1: if they're theoretically supplementing federal immigration laws. The court said, no, Look,

232
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,760
Speaker 1: you have to let the federal government enforced immigration law,

233
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,360
Speaker 1: and they get broad authorities to develop the manner in

234
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,200
Speaker 1: which that's done. And so now what Governor Abbot I

235
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,520
Speaker 1: said is fine, We're not going to start passing a

236
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,520
Speaker 1: bunch of state immigration enforcement laws. What we're gonna do

237
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 1: is take the clause of the Constitution which says that

238
00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:00,040
Speaker 1: the federal government is trusted with sending the states of

239
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 1: the some invasion, and say that the federal government is

240
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,240
Speaker 1: not defending the States against an invasion, and we can

241
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:12,120
Speaker 1: defend ourselves against some invasions. And by doing that, the

242
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 1: idea is that the state of Lectors could deploy National

243
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,840
Speaker 1: Guard resources to try to basically create what I does

244
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,840
Speaker 1: with the deportation of people from the United States into Mexico. Now,

245
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,359
Speaker 1: the problem with that is if you interpret the Constitution

246
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,520
Speaker 1: in terms of its original meaning, what it meant at

247
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,200
Speaker 1: the time, which is something that certainly most conservatives state

248
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,800
Speaker 1: that they're supposed to do. Well, nobody would have thought

249
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 1: that the federal government had a duty to defend the

250
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,240
Speaker 1: United States from immigrants seeking refuge because that was the

251
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,400
Speaker 1: first hundred years of the state of affairs in America.

252
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,160
Speaker 1: So from the late seventeen hundreds still the Chinese exclusion

253
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 1: Acts in the late eighteen hundreds, we had a hundred

254
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,400
Speaker 1: years of basically people coming to a mayor without any

255
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,600
Speaker 1: immigration law whatsoever. So there's no way anybody could say

256
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 1: that the Framers would consider immigrants entering America as an invasion.

257
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 1: And so that's why it's very unlikely that the definition,

258
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,600
Speaker 1: the new definition of invasion is actually going to play

259
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 1: out in any kind of productive manner. So it's just

260
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:27,200
Speaker 1: another ploy by Texas to bring attention to the immigration issue.

261
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,480
Speaker 1: Correct and maybe they can win a lower court injunction

262
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 1: maybe they can even win a fifth circuit injunction, but

263
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 1: I do think by the sciences they get free court.

264
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,400
Speaker 1: They would say, way the second State of Texas, you

265
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,000
Speaker 1: can't just start having your own military, having your own

266
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,320
Speaker 1: interactions with menths AGO because this could lead on a

267
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,040
Speaker 1: very very slip free flow, especially when there really isn't

268
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 1: an invasion going on, and what's going on and said,

269
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,560
Speaker 1: is what you feel is an insufficient then at stopping

270
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,480
Speaker 1: foreign nationals for entering the United States. Texas has been

271
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:06,360
Speaker 1: bussing immigrants to Chicago, New York and d C. They've

272
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,919
Speaker 1: started out bussing them to Philadelphia. Is this helping with

273
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,040
Speaker 1: their so called immigration crisis? No, it certainly doesn't reduce

274
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 1: the number of people entering the state of Texas that

275
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,640
Speaker 1: we've seen from the numbers. The numbers continue to go up,

276
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 1: and so even the last month we had more numbers

277
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 1: than the previous months. And so the goal of these

278
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,439
Speaker 1: bussings is to somehow deter people from coming from the

279
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 1: southern border into the state of Texas. That's not happening

280
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,680
Speaker 1: in any way to perform and obviously that's some going

281
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 1: to happen because you have a lot of irregular global

282
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 1: situations going on, whether they be in Cuba or whether

283
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 1: they be in Avia, or whether they be at the Karagua.

284
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 1: Now in Venezuela, we've seen a reduction in the number

285
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 1: of people entering because there's this new program that allows

286
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 1: then to enter legally. So that's not lowering numbers, but

287
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 1: it is lowering the numbers on the book reporters. But

288
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,159
Speaker 1: the point is that's not what's happening. So the effort

289
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 1: you really is one that's designed to provoke people in

290
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,680
Speaker 1: other jurisdictions to try to get their leaders to take

291
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,959
Speaker 1: the problem of border crossing in the other border more seriously.

292
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 1: So that's the intent of this. I don't know yet

293
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,400
Speaker 1: in the three or four months that this has been

294
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 1: in operation that we've seen a level of success for this,

295
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,680
Speaker 1: especially as people are starting to understand more and more.

296
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,119
Speaker 1: That's the way to deal with this is a transportation nature.

297
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 1: It's not really a homelessness crisis or an immigrant integration

298
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 1: c You don't have to do any of that. You

299
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,960
Speaker 1: just literally have to take the person who's arrived in

300
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 1: your area and move them onto the location they were

301
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 1: going to try to get to anyway. And you did that,

302
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,680
Speaker 1: you resolved the problem, and I think that more jurisdictions

303
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 1: are figuring this out. This is going to become less

304
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:58,240
Speaker 1: and less of a deterrent or even irritate or whatever

305
00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:59,840
Speaker 1: the goal is, It's going to be less of that

306
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 1: because people are gonna understand how to deal with it.

307
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,199
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that no one has sued Texas over this. Well.

308
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,120
Speaker 1: I think you will see lawsuits and jurisdictions where they

309
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: are absolutely unable to handle this, And maybe the theory

310
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 1: would be that he should be given some notice about

311
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 1: doing it. But really, at the end of the day,

312
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 1: anybody can pay for a bus ticket for anybody else

313
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 1: or it's not really the state of sexis isn't necessarily

314
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 1: doing anything illegal to the expense that it's paying for

315
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 1: a bus ticket for a person who's willing to take

316
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 1: that buck. From that perspective, you really can't do anybody

317
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 1: for anything. But if there's any kind of deception going on,

318
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 1: or if there's any kind of efforts that the States

319
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,879
Speaker 1: can show is in somehow guided to coerce the people

320
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 1: on the bus or something, maybe then they can come

321
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 1: up with something. But but I think that's why you

322
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 1: haven't seen the lawsuits because in the end, if the

323
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 1: bus ticket is being purchased, it doesn't matter whether it's

324
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,400
Speaker 1: to find remember or the state government. Do we get

325
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 1: as long as it's all voluntary. Are migrants at the

326
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: border at the peak? Right now? Yeah? Right now? We

327
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 1: have certainly the highest numbers. Uh, yeah, we're over two

328
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: million this year. There are debates about what this over

329
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 1: two million numbers because there's two sort of differences in

330
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 1: terms of past numbers. The first issue is, well, how

331
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 1: many of these people that are counted in these two

332
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: million encounters quote unquote are repeat offenders? Where what happens

333
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,679
Speaker 1: is because sight of forty two is still in attack

334
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 1: and still requires the government to push people out, or

335
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 1: at least did before this recent decision which is given

336
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 1: a sort of pase out period to fight A forty two,

337
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in a second, there's a lot

338
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 1: of repeat encounters. Of the question is how you talk votes.

339
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 1: That's number one, where you come kind as the same

340
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 1: person or different people obviously, and then the second intue

341
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: is to what are you comparing it too? Are you

342
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 1: comparing it to a world where in the past we

343
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 1: didn't know how many people were coming across, so we

344
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 1: never got an accurate account. We used to have far

345
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 1: far less border agents. We didn't have all of the

346
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,120
Speaker 1: sense that we not we didn't have all the drone technology,

347
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: et cetera. From now the border is completely different and

348
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 1: that we know who's coming across very very well to

349
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 1: the number for the details. So of course it's going

350
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 1: to be higher than it's ever been. But the question

351
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: is is that really higher than it's ever been, because

352
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 1: now you're actually counting these people, whereas before you never

353
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 1: counted these people in the first place. So those are

354
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: the debates that go on. But certainly two million people

355
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: or two million encounters coming across the southern border is

356
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: not an optimal way for anybody to manage their immigration system.

357
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: You would want and we've seen this now with the

358
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: adventures of Ukraine and Venezuela. When you create legal pathways

359
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 1: for people, tens or people use them, they don't use

360
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: the illegal pathways. And so the question is how to

361
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: remix of deterrent but also proper channels to come in.

362
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: Can we create a system and I mean it would

363
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: be great if we could get some engagement from Congress

364
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: on this, but the creative system that told people, look,

365
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 1: we have a fair, compassionate and justice from in America,

366
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 1: but you have to follow it. You can't take matters

367
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 1: into your own lands. And so if we could build

368
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: that structure, that would be the number one deterrent to

369
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: get people out of the southern border. Now, you mentioned

370
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 1: Title forty two, which is the Trump era policy that

371
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:40,120
Speaker 1: allows US border officials to expel migrants because of COVID nineteen.

372
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,959
Speaker 1: So a federal judge last week vacated Title forty two,

373
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: but the orders stayed through late December. What kind of

374
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: an effect will this have on the border? Well as

375
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 1: final parting to start getting the implemented. And yes, the

376
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: judge ruled that i'd A forty two is now arbit

377
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: various the preachers and light them. You know, the current

378
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: ending basically of the COVID crisis. It's not that you

379
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 1: you need to have tight A forty two anymore. Because

380
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 1: of victor nations and outdoor processing and other public health measures.

381
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: You don't have an ability to show that there's the

382
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 1: need for Title forty two. And the pi A forty

383
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: two can be adjudicated. Basically, there's two parts of the ruling.

384
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: The preporting to in reviewable by the court and that's

385
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: the question that I think the higher courts review and

386
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: in terms of what different you get tide of forty two.

387
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: But also if I'm doing this review, there's no longer

388
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: any public health justification supporting the exclusion of foreign nationals

389
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 1: due to the COVID nineteen riber because of again outdoor

390
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: process evactination other public health measures. So from that spendpoint,

391
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 1: the Title forty two is actually eliminated. And there's a

392
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: problem because there's another court in the Fifth Circuit that's

393
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: working on their own injunction requiring keeping Title forty two

394
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: in a bag. So they're gonna have to be this

395
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: back and forward sort of dueling injunctions, but get resolved

396
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court. But in any case, if this

397
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: is phrased out, then what will likely happen is a

398
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: return to the Obama and early Trump confusion about well,

399
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: we know what we do with single adults coming across

400
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: the border. We place those people into what are called

401
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: expedited removal proceedings, and we keep them detained until we

402
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: decide whether they qualify for asylum or not. That part

403
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,719
Speaker 1: is pretty easy. We know what we do with them

404
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: a company kids. We took them in the Department of

405
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: Helping Human Services shelters, and then with adult sponsors while

406
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: their removal proceedings are tending. And then the question, because

407
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: what do you do with families? And so previously what

408
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: do you do with family? Babe, you're wife, Some families

409
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: are being excluded because of sight aporting to and other

410
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: families are being let in. Now you probably have to

411
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: let in all of these emily the United States while

412
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: they're asylum places are pending, because the alternative is to

413
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: split up the family. What nobody wants to do anymore

414
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: in this administration, at least after having seen what occurred

415
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: during the Trump administration, and detaining them is all from

416
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: not permitted under the Flora's Settlement Agreement. So your only

417
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,719
Speaker 1: option is for these families to now let them all

418
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: into the United States as opposed to excluding them, which

419
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: is what's been happening of the entire forty two Democrats

420
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: are looking to get some sort of amnesty for illegal

421
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: immigrants through Congress in the lame duck session before they

422
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: lose the House to the Republicans. Does that seem wishful

423
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: thinking because they need to get you know, Republicans on board.

424
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: To me, this is very reminiscing of the state of

425
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: affairs in which is what happens is you had had

426
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: for two years after Barack Obama was elected president. You

427
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: had President of Bama, You had a Democratic House of

428
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: Representatives and their speaker names Peplosye, and you had a

429
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: fifty eight fifty seven fift design from people send it

430
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: under Harry Reid. And for two years nothing worth done

431
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: I immigration reform. And so the the election happens that

432
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: people realize, oh, wait, we've literally come upping on immigration

433
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: reform of any kind. What do we do now? And

434
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: so they had a lame duck vote on the Dream

435
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: Ag and it failed because no Republicans supported it. And

436
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: so this is pretty much exactly like what's gonna happen again.

437
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 1: And from that perspective, I don't see a way forward

438
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: in this Congress. What I knew see is maybe in

439
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: a subsequent Congress they are going to need to put

440
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: together a legislation that basically comes up with a way

441
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: of addressing all of these asylum places in an orderly manner,

442
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: like we talked about one where people have a legitimate,

443
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: credible opportunity to come, but also can't just take matters

444
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: into their own hands and arrive at the borders and

445
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: in exchanged for that, then deal with some of the

446
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: people here who don't know stat And I think there

447
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: is a framework to do that, but I don't think

448
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: it's a framework that's premenable to a lazybost pressure the

449
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: future or expected House. GOP leader Kevin McCarthy has repeatedly

450
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: said there'll be no amnesty with a Republican House. And

451
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: are we expecting legislation from this House or are we

452
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: expecting investigations from this House? Well, certainly there's gonna be

453
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: a star of plenty of hearings on the border, because

454
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: just the majority gives you the ability to have these hearings. Now,

455
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: I do think they wanted to impeach the Secretary of

456
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 1: Homeland Security allow their mayoritis. I don't think they're going

457
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: to be able to do that with the narrow margins

458
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 1: that they have. I think there will be a few

459
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: members of the House of Representatives that don't want to

460
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: go through this route of impeaching people because there's sort

461
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: of more center people that don't want to portray themselves firebrands.

462
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: They come in as they just started teaching people. But

463
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: I do think that the dos settles and as people

464
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: start to have this debate about what to do the

465
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: to be docta where you're going to have a Supreme

466
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: Court decision that comes out that they invalidate DOTA at

467
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: some point, and then what to do these to be

468
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: the border. I just think, whether it's in this Congress

469
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: coming up or a future congress, there's gonna be this

470
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: confluence of events because neither of those things are going away,

471
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: and eventually the solution will become manifestly apparent to everyone.

472
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: It's not. It's not something where there's gonna be another solution.

473
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: People while understand, Okay, we have to address this issue

474
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: of these BACA youth that have been relying upon this

475
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: program for many, many years now, and we have to

476
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: address the situation at the border. Let's put them together

477
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: in a fair and reasonable way. And the thing is this,

478
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: which is I think for Democrats who have been reluctant

479
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: to address this issue at the border, they're gonna have

480
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: to take stock and remember that by the end of

481
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: the Trump administration sort of they have been fumbling around

482
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: with the border issues for four years, they were about

483
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: to be given full blessings by the Supreme Court to

484
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: implement Remain in Mexico on their own. And so if

485
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: there's a way for a future Republican administration to basically

486
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: block every single asylum seeker through a far less humane,

487
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: administratively creative Remain in Mexico program, then do assassiatorily created

488
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: one where their actual rights and conditions and other things

489
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: act the Council and the process put into a statute.

490
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: I think it's the whose Democrats to really think about

491
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: actually making a deal of the terms, because otherwise there

492
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: will still be a Remain in Mexico program. It's not

493
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: like Republicans won't reinstituted, but it will be one that

494
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: will be far less enable to what Democrats wanted in

495
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: regard to the immigration. Thanks for being on the show. Leon.

496
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: That's immigration law expert Leon Fresco, a partner at Holland

497
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: and Knight. I'm June Grass and you're listening to Bloomberg