Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump won't release his medical
Speaker 1: records despite being the oldest presidential candidate ever. We have
Speaker 1: such a great show for you today. Democracy Defenders Pack
Speaker 1: Jim Messina stops by to talk to us about Vice
Speaker 1: President Harris's path to election. Ben we'll talk to New
Speaker 1: York Times Peter S. Goodman about the impacts of the
Speaker 1: long Shortman deal and the looming dangers that continue with
Speaker 1: the supply chain. But first the news.
Speaker 2: So, Molly Young Fast, if there's one thing that Trump
Speaker 2: campaign's been doing for God, it feels like all the
Speaker 2: way back to the Muslim Ben, they like crying about
Speaker 2: migrants and what they do this country. Actually, I think
Speaker 2: that happened when he came down the escalator.
Speaker 1: Really, this should not be a surprise to anyone who
Speaker 1: has spent the last decade dealing with this guy. But
Speaker 1: the thing he's doing now, this hurricane really hit North Carolina, Florida,
Speaker 1: Georgia really badly, and so Trump has decided that he's
Speaker 1: going to lie about the FEMA money that we all
Speaker 1: know FEMA has gotten money that both Governor Kemp and
Speaker 1: Governor Cooper. Cooper's in North Carolina he's a Democrat. Camp
Speaker 1: is in Georgia, he's a Republican. That both of them
Speaker 1: have said they have gotten really good money from the
Speaker 1: federal government. They're being taken care of. And so what
Speaker 1: does Donald Trump do. He makes up a lie that
Speaker 1: the disaster money is not available for the federal response.
Speaker 1: That's not true, and that it was given to migrants
Speaker 1: in the US here illegally. It's a lie. You should
Speaker 1: not be surprised by this lie. Trump repeated it again
Speaker 1: at a rally in Saginaw, Michigan, and he says that
Speaker 1: the money's been stolen, the FEMA money. This is exactly
Speaker 1: what autocrats do. He wants his base to hate this other,
Speaker 1: to use an other, a group of people who are
Speaker 1: immigrants or in the case of my ancestors, Jews and
Speaker 1: other them, and use this very divisive language about them,
Speaker 1: and make his base furious and feel that they have
Speaker 1: to prevent these immigrants from coming to this country. You
Speaker 1: shouldn't be surprised. It's right out of the autocratic playbook.
Speaker 2: Well, another page out of the autocratic playbook is doing
Speaker 2: wildly unpopular things and pretending you're not going to do them,
Speaker 2: which is what Donald Trump is losing it over right now.
Speaker 2: What are you seeing here?
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five, which is this conservative think tanks
Speaker 1: agenda for the quote unquote next Trump administration, And we
Speaker 1: did a YouTube series about it which you can google,
Speaker 1: and in it we talk about these different plans, these
Speaker 1: different right wing thing tanks have and they are basically
Speaker 1: to flatten the federal government, make it tiny, and then
Speaker 1: use parts of the federal government as arms of the
Speaker 1: Trump campaign. For example, Project twenty twenty five wants to
Speaker 1: make the DOJ the Department of Justice, part of Trump's
Speaker 1: campaign and let him do whatever he wants with it.
Speaker 1: Now that there's been some popularizing of what it is,
Speaker 1: people don't like it this plan because it's a lot
Speaker 1: of really unpopular stuff. So Trump is furious and wants
Speaker 1: to distance himself, so he took to his failed social
Speaker 1: media site to say lion Kamala Harris, who refuses to
Speaker 1: do interviews or press conferences, though I saw her to
Speaker 1: a rally yesterday and is now losing in the polls,
Speaker 1: which is also not true because she's been winning in
Speaker 1: all the Polls continues to make a thing called Project
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five the central theme of her campaign advertising
Speaker 1: and all Trump ranted on a post untruth social on Friday. Look,
Speaker 1: this is what he does, this is who he is.
Speaker 1: No one should be surprised. And now let's talk about
Speaker 1: the bibles.
Speaker 2: Well, I have to say I actually did call this one.
Speaker 2: What had happened that somebody would end up passing out
Speaker 2: a lot of Trump Bibles? Because Trump is the new
Speaker 2: religion to a lot of these people. Sure enough, Oklahoma classrooms,
Speaker 2: they'll be getting Trump Bibles soon.
Speaker 1: It looks like so Oklahoma is a state that has
Speaker 1: really become a testing ground for a lot of the
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five stuff. They are very Republican, very trumpy,
Speaker 1: very crazy. Superintendent Ryan Waters decided that they were going
Speaker 1: to buy Bibles for all the schools, which is total,
Speaker 1: totally not how any of this is supposed to go right,
Speaker 1: because they're supposed to be a separation of church and state.
Speaker 1: Bids open on Monday for a contractor to supply to
Speaker 1: this Department of Education the fifty five thousand bibles. Guess
Speaker 1: what certain specifics the bibles must have. Bibles must contain
Speaker 1: the King James version, must contain both the Old and
Speaker 1: New Testament, must include copies of the Pledge of Allegiance,
Speaker 1: Declaration of Independence, US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and
Speaker 1: must be bound in leather or leather like material. A
Speaker 1: salesman at Mardell Christian and Education search they carry two
Speaker 1: nine hundred bibles. None fit the parameters. But you know
Speaker 1: what bible does fit the parameters?
Speaker 2: Jesse, What with the mister Trumps.
Speaker 1: I know you'll be shocked to hear this, but Lee Greenwood,
Speaker 1: who is Donald Trump's Remember Lee Greenwood, the singer who
Speaker 1: Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: Loves, Yes, he loves playing those songs at the rally.
Speaker 1: Lee Greenwood's God Bless the USA Bible endorsed by former
Speaker 1: President Donald Trump and commonly referred to as the Trump Bible.
Speaker 1: These bibles cost sixty dollars each online, and Trump receives
Speaker 1: fees for his endorsement. Those bibles fit the parameters perfectly. Dun, dun,
Speaker 1: dumb so mally.
Speaker 2: One of the growing signs of dementia In dementia j
Speaker 2: Trump is that he keeps saying dead people endorsed him.
Speaker 2: He's done this repeatedly, but now he's just said somebody
Speaker 2: who's a large player in the world stage endorsed them,
Speaker 2: and they're denying it. What are you seeing here?
Speaker 1: So Trump shared on his failed social media site that
Speaker 1: he had been endorsed by Jamie Diamond, the CEO of
Speaker 1: JP Morgan Chase, and Jamie Diamond responded, I don't know
Speaker 1: anything about it. Look, Trump realizes that a lot of
Speaker 1: people think he is a completely inappropriate candidate who will
Speaker 1: bring a lot of financial problems this country with his
Speaker 1: tariffs and his craziness. So he's having trouble getting endorsements
Speaker 1: from normal, serious people. And since he's Trump, he just
Speaker 1: is making it up and pretty trumpy, I'll say so.
Speaker 2: Speaking of truth social BALI, it appears after the stock
Speaker 2: is tanked that what happens a lot in Trump world
Speaker 2: is happening there, which is everybody's turning on each other.
Speaker 2: What are you seeing there?
Speaker 1: So the COO left the company and now owes almost
Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand shares to an investor. Look, there's no
Speaker 1: way here's the COO left. Then we had a bunch
Speaker 1: of other people leave. The shares were when they made
Speaker 1: their debut and started trading publicly, they were seventy nine
Speaker 1: dollars and thirty eight cents a share. Now they're sixteen
Speaker 1: dollars and twenty cents a share. This stock keeps going
Speaker 1: down because it doesn't the company doesn't make any money,
Speaker 1: and it's just a complete you know, it's it's like
Speaker 1: a should be a penny stock.
Speaker 2: I think the funnest revelation in it, though, is that
Speaker 2: a lot of these people are leaving because former Congressman
Speaker 2: Devin Nunez is mismanaging the company. Who could have I
Speaker 2: ever seen that coming?
Speaker 1: Right, well, Devin nun As. I think it's just the
Speaker 1: allegation of mismanagement at this moment, So we have to
Speaker 1: be clear about that because we don't want to get sued.
Speaker 1: But the allegations top executives exit the Trump Media Company
Speaker 1: amid allegations of the CEO's mismanagement and retaliation shock you
Speaker 1: Bush shocked to hear that working at Trump's social is
Speaker 1: about as bad as working in the Trump admin and
Speaker 1: neon as there is a He was the CEO of
Speaker 1: the company in twenty twenty one. Now there are these
Speaker 1: whistleblower allegations about him. So they've enlisted a lawyer in
Speaker 1: the company. Some employees were notified. The lawyer has been
Speaker 1: pushed out. So there's a lot of drama happening here,
Speaker 1: and now the COO has left. This is just what
Speaker 1: you think of when you think of Trump running a company.
Speaker 1: I'm not very surprised, but I'm sure we'll hear more
Speaker 1: about this.
Speaker 2: I'm personally shocked that Retali and Devin Noon as a
Speaker 2: manuseudo Twitter account about his color in the same sentence.
Speaker 2: I can't believe this.
Speaker 1: Very very shocking.
Speaker 2: We have even more tour dates for you. Did you
Speaker 2: know the Lincoln projects, Rick Willson have Fast Politics bleijug
Speaker 2: Faster are heading out on tour to bring you a
Speaker 2: night of laughs for our dark political landscape. Join us
Speaker 2: on August twenty sixth at San Francisco at the Swedish
Speaker 2: American Hall, or in la on August twenty seventh at
Speaker 2: the Regent Theater. Then we're headed to the Midwest and
Speaker 2: we'll be at the Vivarium in Milwaukee on the twenty
Speaker 2: first of September, and on the twenty second, we'll be
Speaker 2: in Chicago at City Winery. Then we're going to hit
Speaker 2: the East coast. On September thirtieth, we'll be in Boston
Speaker 2: at Arts at the Armory on the first of October.
Speaker 2: We'll be in affiliates City Winery, and then DC on
Speaker 2: the second at the Miracle Theater. And today we just
Speaker 2: announced that we'll be in New York on the fourteenth
Speaker 2: of October at City Winery. If you need to laugh
Speaker 2: as we get through this election and hopefully never hear
Speaker 2: from a guy who lives in a golf club again,
Speaker 2: we got you covered. Join us and our surprise guests
Speaker 2: to help you laugh instead of cry your way through
Speaker 2: this election season and give you the inside analysis of
Speaker 2: what's really going on right now. Buy your tickets now
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Speaker 2: as Unusual dot bio.
Speaker 1: Jim Messina is a former presidential campaign manager for Barack
Speaker 1: Obama and founder of the Democracy Defender's Pack. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, Jim.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. Molly, I missed you.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm so glad you're here. We saw each other
Speaker 1: in Chicago for a minute, which was really fun. So
Speaker 1: talk to me about this pack you're doing and what
Speaker 1: it does and what it is.
Speaker 3: So Malia, I know you and I like are similar
Speaker 3: ages and we grew up in a world where if
Speaker 3: you win an election day, you win the election. Yes,
Speaker 3: that's not no longer true in a Trump world. And
Speaker 3: you know what we have seen in the past two
Speaker 3: and a half months three months is a Trump campaign
Speaker 3: in the Trump ecosis to file one hundred lawsuits all
Speaker 3: over the battleground, try to stop early voting, trying to
Speaker 3: get RFK off the ballot in places after he got off,
Speaker 3: trying to get rid of voting locations, changing the rules
Speaker 3: at the very last second in Georgia. And this will
Speaker 3: not be a surprise to anyone on the listening to
Speaker 3: this podcast. Lawyers are fucking expensive, Molly, and so we
Speaker 3: decided to build this super pac to basically fund the
Speaker 3: legal war on all of these things. And so I'm
Speaker 3: doing it with Norviizen, the famous kind of campaign lawyer
Speaker 3: and thinker, former ambassador, and a bunch of other people,
Speaker 3: including the former Republican Lieutenant governor of Georgia, and a
Speaker 3: whole bunch of people who just want to see fair elections.
Speaker 3: And we're really two things. We're going to fight these
Speaker 3: lawsuits between now on election day to make sure people
Speaker 3: have the right to vote, and then too, between election
Speaker 3: day and January whatever the day is that we're counting
Speaker 3: the electoral votes. Trump's campaign managers said, the election is
Speaker 3: not over an election day. We're going to fight all
Speaker 3: the way to January sixth. That's probably going to mean
Speaker 3: Supreme Court cases. It's going to mean them trying to
Speaker 3: intimidate people and counting the votes. You see what they're
Speaker 3: doing in Georgia right now, which is trying to set
Speaker 3: up a paper trail to contest the election. Like, all
Speaker 3: of these things are happening, and we just can't think
Speaker 3: it's enough to win on election day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good point.
Speaker 1: And in fact, the RNC is largely no longer focused
Speaker 1: on voter turnout but instead focused on voter intimidation and
Speaker 1: having voter security day, which means filing these lawsuits.
Speaker 3: Right, That's exactly right, Molly. And here's what the data says.
Speaker 3: The research shows that voters hate all this. And if
Speaker 3: you're thinking about like, oh, there's I see all these
Speaker 3: stories about how on you know, there could be protests
Speaker 3: on election day, could take forever to wait in line.
Speaker 3: You know, the rn C, at im ally's point is saying,
Speaker 3: right now they're going to put collection observers in there,
Speaker 3: to contest whether people should be able to vote, not
Speaker 3: because they think they can actually stop them from voting,
Speaker 3: but they want to make it slower, right, They want
Speaker 3: the lines to get bigger so people will go away.
Speaker 3: And the truth is that works. Research shows that people
Speaker 3: hate that stuff. And if they pull up and they
Speaker 3: see a line all the way down the block and
Speaker 3: they got two kids in the car, and they're like, fuck,
Speaker 3: I was just going to pop in and vote, and
Speaker 3: now it's going to take hours. I'm not going to
Speaker 3: do this right. And so it's why really voting is
Speaker 3: so important, but it's why, you know, contesting some of
Speaker 3: these intimidation tactics is absolutely so important. So for your listeners,
Speaker 3: I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a campaign hack. So
Speaker 3: pairing me with a bunch of lawyers is a little funny,
Speaker 3: but the truth is, you know, you got to do both.
Speaker 3: You got to understand how to win a campaign and
Speaker 3: you've got to be super smart lawyers, and so we're
Speaker 3: putting together both.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And I
Speaker 1: also I wonder if you could speak to what's happening
Speaker 1: in Georgia with a handcount right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, So the the Georgia Elections Board
Speaker 3: is changing the rules literally sixty days before the election
Speaker 3: or now thirty five days for the election, to say
Speaker 3: that you have to hand count on election night every
Speaker 3: single vout to figure out how many there are that
Speaker 3: were paper ballots, so that way they can have an
Speaker 3: evidence trail. Now, why is that a big deal? That's
Speaker 3: a big deal because we know it'll take forever to
Speaker 3: figure out who's going to win. What Trump's going to
Speaker 3: do is exactly what he did last time, which is,
Speaker 3: say I won the election, stop counting because we don't
Speaker 3: want all these votes counted. And you saw this in
Speaker 3: some of the testimony that Jack Smith just just put
Speaker 3: out there, that Trump said it didn't matter whether he
Speaker 3: won or not. He was just can declare that he
Speaker 3: won his polls were closed. And so they're setting this
Speaker 3: up to be able to try to contest every vote
Speaker 3: in Georgia in a place where it's really really hard
Speaker 3: and going to be really really close. And when you
Speaker 3: run sixty six thousand simulations of the election, which I
Speaker 3: do every night because I'm a loser.
Speaker 1: You're not alone. We do that. We all do this.
Speaker 3: Yes, go on, Yes, you realize that if we don't
Speaker 3: carry Pennsylvania, you have to replace it in the most
Speaker 3: likely place to replace it is Georgia. And you know
Speaker 3: this is what she believes because they've been there a bunch.
Speaker 3: They started their campaign doing a bus tour down in Georgia,
Speaker 3: and so it's just absolutely crucial to have a backup plan,
Speaker 3: and Georgia is that plan. And Republicans know this, and
Speaker 3: that's why they're changing the rules of the very last
Speaker 3: second to make it more difficult.
Speaker 1: Explain what her most likely path is. And also if
Speaker 1: you could explain to us maybe what you think her
Speaker 1: play is and how do you think it's working.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so great questions. We could talk about this
Speaker 3: for hours, because it's pretty much the only thing I
Speaker 3: care about in the world.
Speaker 1: Me too.
Speaker 3: When you look at how to get to two hundred
Speaker 3: and seventy electoral boats, which you know I spent eight
Speaker 3: years of my life doing for Barack Obama, you realize
Speaker 3: right now now there's only seven battleground states in America,
Speaker 3: which is depressing, and I think we all agree that sucks,
Speaker 3: but it's true. And there Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada, North Carolina, Arizona,
Speaker 3: and Georgia.
Speaker 1: She has more than he did though.
Speaker 3: Right, Yep, yep, yep, it's true. But when you look
Speaker 3: at those seven states, they're all not created equal. And
Speaker 3: then we say that is because the Midwestern three what
Speaker 3: we call the Blue Wall, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Democrats
Speaker 3: have carried those states only six out of the last
Speaker 3: seven presidential elections. Means that you know, they've always been close,
Speaker 3: Like you and I have spent our entire adult life
Speaker 3: waiting for Pennsylvania to come in, right, but those are
Speaker 3: states where we usually win. Then you can trast that
Speaker 3: with Nevada five out of the last seven, North Carolina
Speaker 3: one out of the last seven, and Arizona two. And
Speaker 3: so those what we call the sun Belt states are
Speaker 3: just harder bets, right. And when you run the sixty
Speaker 3: six thousand simulations of the election right now, the tipping
Speaker 3: point state in seventy percent of those is Pennsylvania, and
Speaker 3: then in another twenty percent is Wisconsin, and then you
Speaker 3: kind of get to Georgia and North Carolina, and again
Speaker 3: they're not all created equal because Pennsylvania is so big.
Speaker 3: If you replace it with Georgia, you also have to
Speaker 3: win Nevada, right, and so look at the real clear
Speaker 3: politics averages. All of these are within the margin of error.
Speaker 3: But you know, North Carolina Trump currently leads, Arizona Trump
Speaker 3: currently leads Georgia E leads although they're really close. All
Speaker 3: these are within a point. And Molly knows. And we've
Speaker 3: talked before about how much I hate polling. So this
Speaker 3: is why people like Meors are so obsessed. Now we
Speaker 3: haven't talked about the one other electoral vote we have
Speaker 3: to have, which is Nebraska too right and Nebraska to
Speaker 3: Nebraska and Maine do their state's weird or they allow
Speaker 3: their congressional districts to vote differently. And Nebraska two is
Speaker 3: one that Kamala Harris currently leads by seven points. And
Speaker 3: you had air Nebraska two with the three Midwestern states.
Speaker 3: If you just in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan, you get
Speaker 3: to two hundred and sixty nine. And Molly is an
Speaker 3: expert on this. Two sixty nine means it's the tie
Speaker 3: the House of Representatives decides, and the Republicans controlled that process,
Speaker 3: so we'd lose the bree So you have to win
Speaker 3: Nebraska two. I was just there campaigning. I think we're
Speaker 3: going to win Nebraska two.
Speaker 1: Oh, Nebraska too. I think Republicans did the worst possible thing.
Speaker 1: They tried to take away the point at the last minute.
Speaker 1: It didn't happen. So there's no world in which they're
Speaker 1: winning Nebraska too, Now, don't you agree?
Speaker 3: I totally agree. And I think we're going to win
Speaker 3: that congressional seat too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's Don Bacon.
Speaker 3: Right, correct. And Tony Vargas is the Democratic candidate state
Speaker 3: senator who is amazing, like an American success story who
Speaker 3: grew up poor and ended up being in Teach for
Speaker 3: America and is now now running for Congress. And I
Speaker 3: think he's going to win. And those are one of
Speaker 3: the seats that King Jeffreys absolutely needs to become Speaker
Speaker 3: of the House. But Tomali's ployt what have we learned
Speaker 3: in this last two election cycles. Don't try to stop
Speaker 3: people from voting because it really pisses them off. And
Speaker 3: don't take away their rights, right, those are the two
Speaker 3: things that really animate people. You know, we saw this
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two with the people who were election deniers,
Speaker 3: and we're seeing this now like Nebraska went from a
Speaker 3: tied race to them trying to change the rules to
Speaker 3: now Kamala Iris walking away with it because a whole
Speaker 3: bunch of people, usually women who are smarter than men,
Speaker 3: said fuck you, We're not going to allow you to
Speaker 3: do this. And now Kama is walking away with it,
Speaker 3: and I think Tony Margus is going to win too.
Speaker 1: There's an anxiety that I have heard from a number
Speaker 1: of fancy pundits quietly that she's not out there enough.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's right? And do you think she
Speaker 1: should be out there more? Is she's spending enough time camping, meeting,
Speaker 1: and also is walls out there enough?
Speaker 3: I think everything, Well, you realize when you run a
Speaker 3: presidential campaign is you really only have three things. You
Speaker 3: have time, you have money, and you have volunteer effort.
Speaker 3: And so her issue is, you know, she's got to
Speaker 3: do all these things. She's building this jumbo seven forty
Speaker 3: seven plane as she's flying it. We've never had an
Speaker 3: election this fast, and so she's kind of got to
Speaker 3: do everything. And she has a day job. So you know,
Speaker 3: when there is flooding all over the South, including in
Speaker 3: the battleground states of Georgia and North Carolina, she has
Speaker 3: to go deal with that. When there's a potential war
Speaker 3: in the Middle East. She has to go deal with that,
Speaker 3: and you know what, that's campaigning. That's okay because voters
Speaker 3: do have questions about how she would be as president,
Speaker 3: so let them see her do that stuff. And so
Speaker 3: I hear this punnet stuff too. I think it's okay
Speaker 3: because we've just never had this close to an election
Speaker 3: days with swing voters who just don't have an opinion
Speaker 3: of her, And what they keep saying is they want
Speaker 3: to know more about her, and I think one way
Speaker 3: they get to know more about her is watch her
Speaker 3: in action.
Speaker 1: I have also talked to less fancy pundits but still
Speaker 1: very smart who have said that her favorability numbers keep
Speaker 1: going up and his keep going down in a way
Speaker 1: that surprised them.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I think the biggest surprise is her, because
Speaker 3: when you looked at that her numbers when she was
Speaker 3: vice president, when Biden was still running, you would say,
Speaker 3: if Joe Biden would have gotten out, it shouldn't be
Speaker 3: her because their numbers sucks so bad. And she becomes
Speaker 3: the nominee and continues to run a perfect campaign and
Speaker 3: in part about her right and she really her amazing
Speaker 3: starts about being excited and enthusiasm and then the perfect
Speaker 3: transition of the Democratic National Convention to seriousness, and then
Speaker 3: the debate where she just wiped his ass all over
Speaker 3: the floor. Yeah, it has been perfect and so normal.
Speaker 3: Political pundits in the panicking ten square mile logic for
Speaker 3: his zone called washingde just couldn't have seen that happening,
Speaker 3: And it has happened the second thing, which we could
Speaker 3: see happening, but you kind of wondered whether it would
Speaker 3: which I think this story of this campaign for him
Speaker 3: has been. The third time is not a charm, and
Speaker 3: he stuck at forty seven and a half points forty eight,
Speaker 3: like he just can't move, and he's giving them no
Speaker 3: reason to kind of go to get to do what
Speaker 3: he did in twenty sixteen people were getting twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty, he kind of ended the campaign pretty
Speaker 3: well and kind of got it that he had to
Speaker 3: be crazy and got it that he had to kind
Speaker 3: of close. Well, the wheels are coming off that bandwagon,
Speaker 3: and they have decided, and I don't think they're wrong.
Speaker 3: I totally understand why they're doing this. They're decided they
Speaker 3: can't persuade any person to vote for him that is undecided.
Speaker 3: So They're just going to burn her to the ground
Speaker 3: out and that is their entire theory of the case.
Speaker 3: It may not be wrong, but he is just stuck
Speaker 3: and he can't move.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's why they did the Vance pick right,
Speaker 1: talk to us about that.
Speaker 3: Yep, they picked Vance because their whole theory was on
Speaker 3: the third time, there are a whole bunch of people
Speaker 3: who are not motivated. The donor class kind of hated him.
Speaker 3: His base was bitching. So they're like, look, this is
Speaker 3: a turnout election, and so we're in a straight turnout election.
Speaker 3: The way you got up the base is pick someone
Speaker 3: they're passionate about the way they get excited and JD.
Speaker 3: Vance is crazy and a bunch of big chunk of
Speaker 3: their base is crazy. And so let's go pick someone
Speaker 3: who will make that sighting and it would go out
Speaker 3: there and throw a red meat to the wolves and
Speaker 3: get them excited about volunteering and being part of the
Speaker 3: third campaign because no one's excited. I saw this yesterday.
Speaker 3: I watched the Trump rally and they literally had to
Speaker 3: cut the room in half, and even then they couldn't
Speaker 3: sell it out. And this isn't a criticism on him,
Speaker 3: like in the second Obama campaign. We didn't sell out
Speaker 3: our first announcement event in Ohio because everyone had seen
Speaker 3: Barack Obama hundred times. Right, it's just not exciting. And
Speaker 3: so they decided to double down on Mado with Jada
Speaker 3: Vance because they thought they were running against Joe Biden
Speaker 3: a thousand percent chance. If they knew they were unning
Speaker 3: against Kamala Harris, they would have picked a woman, and
Speaker 3: they would not have picked Jadadvance. Now they got Jade
Speaker 3: Vance there, who just gives them nothing. Had a nice debate,
Speaker 3: went to the Yale debate team great, but doesn't give
Speaker 3: them anything new because he said so many crazy cat
Speaker 3: lady things. And so if you look at where Waltz's
Speaker 3: Waltson's in rural places talking to rural voters that they
Speaker 3: need to do a little bit better, which is exactly
Speaker 3: what he should be doing. Vance is doing Trump rallies.
Speaker 3: He's not talking to anyone new because he can't because
Speaker 3: those voters aren't coming to those rallies. And so it's
Speaker 3: just it's a terrible pick for the race they're now in.
Speaker 1: Do you think that Vance does energize the magabase there
Speaker 1: are now?
Speaker 3: I think it's help well, I think a whole bunch
Speaker 3: of people. Well, I think he's done two things. The
Speaker 3: people that they really needed to write ten million dollar
Speaker 3: checks like Elon mu and Peter Thiel and those guys,
Speaker 3: you know, Jade Vance worked for them, so they think
Speaker 3: this is the thing, and they're writing checks like Molly
Speaker 3: and I get Cabernet, like they're just all in in
Speaker 3: a way they weren't in. And then second, you know,
Speaker 3: they do have him psyching up the base all over
Speaker 3: the place, and that is helpful to them. And you
Speaker 3: know they've decided to outsource their field effort. And there's
Speaker 3: lots of people writing stories about this. Well, all the
Speaker 3: big outside Republican money people who are writing checks on
Speaker 3: that have Vance do events for that. They don't have
Speaker 3: Donald Trump do it because their doners don't want to
Speaker 3: hear Donald Trump. They think he's wacky. They want to
Speaker 3: hear Van who says the crazy things they only think about.
Speaker 3: And so on that score, he has been helpful.
Speaker 1: It does seem like Vance is sort of able, and
Speaker 1: we saw this in the VP debate to sell trump
Speaker 1: Ism in a way that Trump that Trump. It's very
Speaker 1: distracting because Trump says things like childcare is childcare, whereas
Speaker 1: Vance says things that are not true, almost exclusively, but
Speaker 1: that that sound more like normal politicians.
Speaker 3: Speaker. I debated this Republican operative yesterday for a client
Speaker 3: who will go nameless because he's actually a nice guy,
Speaker 3: and he said kind of the quiet part out loud.
Speaker 3: He's like, you know, Jim, I think you guys are
Speaker 3: going to win this election because Donald Trump's so bad,
Speaker 3: but you wait till the next wait mag of people
Speaker 3: who aren't as polarizing but are even more right wing,
Speaker 3: and that is Jade Dance. Like I looked at that
Speaker 3: debate the other night and said, holy fuck, I do
Speaker 3: not want against this guy. And if she wins, you know,
Speaker 3: he'll be in first place to be the nominee in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight, which is why he took this, why
Speaker 3: he made the Faustian bargain with Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: You know, I had the exact same thought when I
Speaker 1: watch that debate. I thought, it's not going to move
Speaker 1: the needle this time. But this is Trump is without Trump,
Speaker 1: and you really see how much Trump himself hurts him.
Speaker 1: You know, Trump hurts himself and he hurts this insane
Speaker 1: like he is almost the single thing that is protecting
Speaker 1: us from the insane zelotray that is Project twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: because twenty twenty five is not Trump, but it is
Speaker 1: the Republican Party, right, so like it will be you
Speaker 1: know when Trump, if Trump wins, they well they will
Speaker 1: make it happen because it is what they want. But
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily what Trump wants. It's just that what
Speaker 1: Trump will go along with because he doesn't have any
Speaker 1: particular governing principles.
Speaker 3: Correct, He's for Donald Trump and always has been and
Speaker 3: always will be. But there's a movement out there on
Speaker 3: their side, and that movement is embodied in Project twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five. And it's not democratic spin. It's not me
Speaker 3: just saying this me like it's true. And they had
Speaker 3: hundreds of people work for months on this and this
Speaker 3: was their crowning document. And Mike jd Vance wrote the
Speaker 3: forward for the guy who who was the head of
Speaker 3: Project twenty twenty five for his book. Yeah, like Kevin
Speaker 3: Roberts Foundation, there is foundation. Yes, it's not some conspiracy,
Speaker 3: it is real. And so I think the future is
Speaker 3: actually a little more scary assuming we win here.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jim. I hope you'll come back anytime.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how
Speaker 1: awful Trump's second term could be? Well, so are we,
Speaker 1: which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make
Speaker 1: a limited series with the experts on what a disaster
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five would be for America's future. Right now,
Speaker 1: we have just released the final episode of this five
Speaker 1: episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly Jong
Speaker 1: Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube. And if you
Speaker 1: are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber,
Speaker 1: you can hit play and put your phone in the
Speaker 1: lock screen and it will play back just like a podcast.
Speaker 1: All five episodes are online now. We need to educate
Speaker 1: Americans on what Trump's second term would or could do
Speaker 1: to this country, so please watch it and spread the word.
Speaker 1: Peter S. Goodman is the global economics correspondent for The
Speaker 1: New York Times and author of How the World Ran
Speaker 1: Out of Everything. Welcome to Fast Politics, Peter.
Speaker 4: Goodman, thanks very much, great to be here.
Speaker 1: So you have a book out, and then also we
Speaker 1: just had this nearly averted strike that happened. But first,
Speaker 1: the book is called How the World Ran out of Everything,
Speaker 1: and it was really like the pandemic was the first
Speaker 1: time any of us, Maybe not any of us, but
Speaker 1: the first time I realized how seamlessly the supply chain
Speaker 1: usually were.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a very personal thing that caused me
Speaker 4: to write this book. I never thought I write a
Speaker 4: book about the global supply chain. I write about supply chains,
Speaker 4: but it seemed kind of wonky. And then it's the
Speaker 4: first wave of the pandemic. Living in London, have a
Speaker 4: newborn arrives. He's born on April eighth, twenty twenty, and
Speaker 4: my wife is stoic about the fact that I can
Speaker 4: only be in the hospital for an hour, her parents
Speaker 4: can't fly over from New York to help with the baby,
Speaker 4: we can't go to the pediatrician. But where she really
Speaker 4: loses it. I remember this vividly. As we get home
Speaker 4: and she says, well, let's order some hand sanitizer. We
Speaker 4: can't find any online. I'm walking round our North London neighborhood,
Speaker 4: no hand sanitizer. Then we try to buy the ingredients
Speaker 4: to make our own hand sanitizer. Same story. She looks
Speaker 4: at me and she says, hey, you're supposed to know
Speaker 4: how this stuff works. What's going on? And I realized
Speaker 4: that I didn't fully know, and as I started to
Speaker 4: dig into it, I realized that essentially, globalization as we
Speaker 4: knew it was not exactly unraveling, but it was failing. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and the sides had been there, and it required book
Speaker 4: late treatment to make sense of yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: I think that what strikes me about this is we
Speaker 1: became this global world so quickly, and we had never
Speaker 1: had something like this where all of a sudden everything
Speaker 1: stopped right.
Speaker 4: And it's one of those few things that we actually
Speaker 4: have faith in, you know, like whatever your politics are,
Speaker 4: or we may know that it's not necessarily savory to
Speaker 4: rely on Amazon to the extent that we do. That
Speaker 4: they're not treating their warehouse workers well that you know,
Speaker 4: their Scuman rights violations in terms of this supply chain
Speaker 4: in places like Shinjong, and you know, we know all that,
Speaker 4: but we still assume you click the buy button, you
Speaker 4: wait maybe a couple of days, sometimes only a few hours,
Speaker 4: and a truck just magically shows up at your door.
Speaker 4: And when that breaks down in the middle of you know,
Speaker 4: our darkest hour, it's pretty your wildering. It's kind of
Speaker 4: cosmically bewildering, and it turns out that all the pieces
Speaker 4: that are working behind the scenes to make this stuff
Speaker 4: happen are fascinating, which was something I didn't understand. So
Speaker 4: I actually dug in and started thinking about these people
Speaker 4: were invited to not think about truck drivers, longshore workers,
Speaker 4: warehouse workers. I mean I spent a lot of time,
Speaker 4: you know, I rode around in a truck for three
Speaker 4: days through the frozen midsection of America to see what
Speaker 4: that's like up close. And when you start to realize
Speaker 4: that we're dependent upon all these people, I hope you'll
Speaker 4: never see a package the same way again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what we've seen with these supply chains is that
Speaker 1: there were so many weaknesses. Like I remember trying to
Speaker 1: get paper towels and you couldn't get paper towels. And
Speaker 1: I think that after this supply chain hiccup, it's like
Speaker 1: a little bit like the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic, which
Speaker 1: is that we did actually learn some lessons, right that
Speaker 1: would changed. Like I think about chips and the chips
Speaker 1: and science acts right like they they manufact they started
Speaker 1: manufacturing chips in the United States, and that is because
Speaker 1: right what happened with the supply chain.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've learned some lessons, and that we haven't learned
Speaker 4: some lessons we've learned in the things that are strategic
Speaker 4: and deemed central to national security, like computer chips, like
Speaker 4: to a lesser extent, electric vehicles and batter you know,
Speaker 4: the Biden administration is at least tens of billions dollars
Speaker 4: in subsidies to try to generate plants at home. Then
Speaker 4: big companies that have billions of dollars to throw around
Speaker 4: the like Walmart, they are shifting some of their production
Speaker 4: out of China to places like Mexico to serve the
Speaker 4: American market India, to get out from under the Chinese
Speaker 4: supply chain. Not abandoning China. It's more of sort of
Speaker 4: like a portfolio shift in the margins. And there's more
Speaker 4: and more of a conversation about reshowing near, showing friends, showing,
Speaker 4: whatever term you want, de risking, you know, sort of
Speaker 4: not just pretending that there are no risks when we
Speaker 4: treat a factory across the ocean the same way as
Speaker 4: a factory, you know, down the street. And we've been
Speaker 4: invited to pretend that as long as there's container shipping
Speaker 4: in the Internet, we can just carry on as if
Speaker 4: there are no risks. Those risks are now pretty explicit.
Speaker 4: On the other hand, the financial incentives that have pushed
Speaker 4: all of this stuff to low cost countries are still there.
Speaker 4: And we have had these shocks before, not as big
Speaker 4: as the pandemic. But you know, I wrote my first
Speaker 4: supply chain shock story back in nineteen ninety nine, where
Speaker 4: there's an earthquake in Taiwan that hit computer chips. After Fukushima,
Speaker 4: the nuclear disaster in Japan at twenty eleven, it is
Speaker 4: at twenty twelve, a lot of people said, oh, we've
Speaker 4: overdone it with these long supply chains across the ocean.
Speaker 4: Let's think about reallocating, recalibrating, you know whatever. And we
Speaker 4: just carried on. Because any CEO of a publicly trading
Speaker 4: company who says, let's build an extra warehouse or you know,
Speaker 4: spend money in the name of versilience, that's an invitation
Speaker 4: to lose your job. Whereas the CEO says, let's just
Speaker 4: keep doing it. We're going to rely heavily on China.
Speaker 4: We're going to go to the lowest cost providers. You know,
Speaker 4: there will be a shock, because there are inevitably shocks
Speaker 4: that will reveal the price of that. But with any
Speaker 4: luck that CEO will have cast their stock options, they'll
Speaker 4: be on a beach and a hammock, you know, with
Speaker 4: a cocktail. And that's still true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's definitely true. So explain to us
Speaker 1: about the dock workers, because this is really you know,
Speaker 1: it's funny. I was somewhere with some political people and
Speaker 1: I said, like, what are you the most worried about?
Speaker 1: And everyone was like, the doc workers, Like that actually
Speaker 1: could be a disaster written all over it. Now, the
Speaker 1: Biden administration, which has been really, really really good with
Speaker 1: unions and has been rewarded by them by with nothing right.
Speaker 1: I mean, these unions are not making endorsements despite the
Speaker 1: fact that Biden was the first person to go and
Speaker 1: the first president ever to walk on a picket line.
Speaker 1: Explain to us what happened with the dock workers.
Speaker 4: First of all, yes, there was a nightmare scenario for
Speaker 4: the Biden administration if the strike had gone on. The
Speaker 4: dock workers. These are the people who load and unload
Speaker 4: container ships, which are like the workhorses of the modern
Speaker 4: global economy. They walked off the job on East Coast
Speaker 4: and Gulf Coast ports. We're talking about like forty five
Speaker 4: thousand people, shutting down fourteen major ports. And this raised
Speaker 4: the prospect that we'd be talking about inflation again. If
Speaker 4: this strike had gone on longer, we'd have probably had
Speaker 4: floating traffic jams off of major ports. I mean, they
Speaker 4: were already starting to develop this risk that there'd be
Speaker 4: congestion out west because cargo the camp be unloaded at
Speaker 4: Newark or Savannah or Houston, you know, gets diverted to
Speaker 4: la or Long Beach, where a lot of people will
Speaker 4: remember we had cues stretching seventy ships. Yeah, so this
Speaker 4: was indeed to night ersonary. The problem for Biden is
Speaker 4: that despite being seen as the most pro union president,
Speaker 4: you know, maybe ever that's how he'd liked to be seen.
Speaker 4: There are actually some bad memories about the rail strike
Speaker 4: within the labor book.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right, talk about the rail strike.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So there was no rail strike because Biden intervened.
Speaker 4: He enforced this settlement on the rail workers without paid
Speaker 4: sick leave, which was a source of real anger. And
Speaker 4: so the optics of waiting into this one he had
Speaker 4: at his disposal on nineteen forty seven law that taft
Speaker 4: hardly act. He could have said this the threat to
Speaker 4: national security.
Speaker 5: Could have ordered an eighty day cooling off period, which
Speaker 5: Reagan did with the air traffic controllers. Right, Reagan intervened
Speaker 5: and actually fired air traffic controllers.
Speaker 4: There have been other times in history when this Act
Speaker 4: has been invoked. Biden said he didn't want to do it.
Speaker 4: The optics would have been really bad. I mean, of course, yes,
Speaker 4: to your point, labor is a core democratic constituency. On
Speaker 4: the other hand, not waiting in every day that the
Speaker 4: strike went on raised the risk of product shortages, lots
Speaker 4: of anxiety, increased shipping rates, which would get filtered through
Speaker 4: as higher consumer presses, so there were no great options.
Speaker 4: In the end, it seems like the White House managed
Speaker 4: to coax the parties back to the table to suspend
Speaker 4: the strike until January fifteen. There's still some huge outstanding issues,
Speaker 4: like the pace of automation. Dock workers look at robots
Speaker 4: as the things that are going to replace them. I mean,
Speaker 4: the history of container shipping is the story of shippers
Speaker 4: using technology to bypass the possibility that dock workers can
Speaker 4: withdraw their labor and bring everything to a halt. But
Speaker 4: you know, the political ticking time bomb that was this
Speaker 4: strike is now for the moment taken off the table,
Speaker 4: and that's a pretty big deal for Harris.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk for two seconds about why you think
Speaker 1: the labor unions are not endorsing her. And I'm talking
Speaker 1: about there are two that I'm thinking about. One is
Speaker 1: the Fireman that was yesterday, and then the other one
Speaker 1: is this larger union, and then you had those small
Speaker 1: the teamsters. You had those smaller unions, the more local
Speaker 1: unions in the swing states endorsing her book. But why
Speaker 1: do you think that is?
Speaker 4: You know, it's a very tricky dynamic. Because I am
Speaker 4: not going to say something original here. I mean the
Speaker 4: white working class, in particular in the industrialized parts of
Speaker 4: the country, like the Upper Midwest, there's a lot of
Speaker 4: rake and file support for Trump, and so the union
Speaker 4: leadership is stuck in a tough position. I mean, they
Speaker 4: understand that if Trump wins, there's no way he's going
Speaker 4: to be friendly to labor. There's no chance he's going
Speaker 4: to put people in places of power, like at the
Speaker 4: National Labor Relations Board who are friendly to the labor agenda.
Speaker 4: On the other hand, you know, you look at places
Speaker 4: like Michigan, a key battleground state where the UAW came
Speaker 4: out early and endorsed Biden, and the rake and file
Speaker 4: was really split because Biden was pushing things like mandates
Speaker 4: for electric vehicles, which UAW rank and file workers look
Speaker 4: at as a job killer in the immediate term. That
Speaker 4: you don't need as many people to make an electric
Speaker 4: vehicle as you do a conventional gas powered car. That's
Speaker 4: a very tricky dynamic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so striking to me because he really has
Speaker 1: been so focused, Like, I mean, if Trump gets in there,
Speaker 1: throw right to work laws.
Speaker 4: I mean, Trump is the master at acting like a
Speaker 4: populist and promising lots of stuff, telling us that these
Speaker 4: tariffs that have already been demonstrated to be job killers
Speaker 4: in the places where they're supposed to bring jobs back,
Speaker 4: are going to get everybody working. You know, he's the
Speaker 4: master of the photo op. Right, Let's put tariffs on
Speaker 4: steel and go get a picture taken with a bunch
Speaker 4: of steel workers and a shuttered plant going back to work.
Speaker 4: And never mind the fact that there are roughly eight
Speaker 4: times as many people who go to work at factories
Speaker 4: that buy steal as there are people who go to
Speaker 4: plants that make steal. But you know that's a footnote
Speaker 4: in a Department of Commerce report or some wonky blog post.
Speaker 4: The thing that leads is to picture of Trump with
Speaker 4: a hard hat on standing next to steel workers. And
Speaker 4: this is a game he plays very well while he's
Speaker 4: gaining the support of people who actually have benefited from
Speaker 4: moving jobs overseas and basically doing the bidding of the
Speaker 4: investor class by promising tax cuts and deregulations.
Speaker 1: To us sort of what has changed. We can get
Speaker 1: paper towels again, we can get purel but have there
Speaker 1: been lasting changes? I mean, are we prepared if something
Speaker 1: like this happens again? And also to sort of talk
Speaker 1: us through where we are right now with the supply chain.
Speaker 4: Well, we're better prepared in areas where there were significant
Speaker 4: shortages the last time. So it was interesting. You know,
Speaker 4: in the run up to this doc worker strike, lots
Speaker 4: of companies, especially retailers, brought in lots of additional inventory
Speaker 4: in anticipation there'd be a problem, so we don't really
Speaker 4: have to worry about the holiday season. On the other hand,
Speaker 4: you look at an industry like automotive, where they're governed
Speaker 4: by this mantra just in time. You know, we don't
Speaker 4: want to stash lots of parts and components in warehouses.
Speaker 4: That's a drain on our capital. Will rely on the
Speaker 4: just in time supply chain to deliver what we need
Speaker 4: at the assembly line in real time. And as a
Speaker 4: result to the strike, I had an automotive consultant tell
Speaker 4: me that auto plants in the US were sitting on
Speaker 4: maybe three days worth of inventory, with another week you know,
Speaker 4: somewhere on trucks, trains, some of that stuck on ships.
Speaker 4: That's a sign that the shareholder interests are still paramount
Speaker 4: and are still preventing us from doing stuff that would
Speaker 4: actually be more resilient. And as long as you know,
Speaker 4: companies are managed for short term shareholder interests, we will
Speaker 4: continue to be vulnerable to the next shot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that why it's so hard to get a
Speaker 1: handle on wages going up? I mean, is that why
Speaker 1: wages aren't going up? Actually now they are, but in
Speaker 1: some places they're not that wages we're not keeping pace
Speaker 1: with inflation.
Speaker 4: Wage growth has actually been fairly healthy this year, and
Speaker 4: that's a sign. You know that unemployment's been really low
Speaker 4: for now several years, and so labor has greater leverage
Speaker 4: than it used to have. But you know, one of
Speaker 4: the things that I think doesn't get wrestled with enough,
Speaker 4: and in my book I really get into some detail.
Speaker 4: Here is the extent to which monopoly power determines much
Speaker 4: of what happens in the economy. And a lot of
Speaker 4: rising prices and a lot of shortages reflect a kind
Speaker 4: of engineered scarcity where every time something bad happens to
Speaker 4: the rest of us, it's good for handful of companies
Speaker 4: that don't have enough competition. And you know, the ultimate
Speaker 4: thing we can look at today is so overnight as
Speaker 4: we're speaking, there's been a settlement to the stock worker strike.
Speaker 4: And you would think, well, that's good news for the
Speaker 4: shipping companies. Right now there's stock workers who can load
Speaker 4: and unload cargo. Their stocks plunged on this news because
Speaker 4: the expectation with the investor class was so long as
Speaker 4: there were bottlenecks at ports, there'd be lots of anxiety
Speaker 4: amongst shippers and they'd be willing to pay whatever it
Speaker 4: costs to get their stuff onto ships, and so prices
Speaker 4: we're going to go up. And the settlement of the strike,
Speaker 4: which is good news for the real economy. It's good
Speaker 4: news for workers, good news for consumers, not good news
Speaker 4: for the shipping carriers who are organized in these three
Speaker 4: alliances think like airline alliances, like you know, Star Alliance
Speaker 4: or One World or whatever, and they dominate the most
Speaker 4: lucrative routes from China to the West coast of the
Speaker 4: United States, from Asia to Europe. So this is a
Speaker 4: sign that they can't lift prices, and that should tell
Speaker 4: us that there's something really out of whack in the
Speaker 4: way we're invited to think about this economy as being
Speaker 4: all about supply and demand. There's a lot of monopoly
Speaker 4: power and engineered scarcity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, engineered scarcity. Talk to us about that more. How
Speaker 1: does that work exactly?
Speaker 4: Take a look at the beef industry. So beef industry
Speaker 4: is controlled in the US by four companies that have
Speaker 4: an eighty five percent hold on the capacity to slaughter cattle.
Speaker 4: That's higher than during the robber barons. And that's a
Speaker 4: reflection of you know, excessive deregulation. Embrace of this idea
Speaker 4: both sides of the political aisle. The greater scale is
Speaker 4: good for consumers. Any merger that doesn't immediately lift prices
Speaker 4: should be welcomed, or at least government should get out
Speaker 4: of the way. So now we got these four companies,
Speaker 4: the biggest of which JBS Foods is run by these
Speaker 4: two convicted felons, these brothers in Brazil who borrowed all
Speaker 4: this money under fraudul Remember.
Speaker 1: These guys, Yeah, yeah, yeah, they did. They make a
Speaker 1: deal with the trumpet men.
Speaker 4: Well, this is a story I tell on my book.
Speaker 4: So they got the Trump administration, not just them, by
Speaker 4: the way, but the other large meat packers to do
Speaker 4: the industry's bidding during the first wave of the pandemic,
Speaker 4: and they kept the slaughterhouses open. They deemed slaughterhouse workers
Speaker 4: essential workers. And they actually said they got the Trump
Speaker 4: administration Trump and executive order saying if the slaughterhouse is closed,
Speaker 4: that's a threat to the food supply. We're going to
Speaker 4: go hungry, bike pants. Thanks slaughterhouse workers for the great sacrifice. Well,
Speaker 4: so I tell the story of this woman Tin I,
Speaker 4: who is a refugee from meandmar settled in Denver, gets
Speaker 4: a job of the JBS Foods slaughterhouse in Greeley, Colorado,
Speaker 4: is one of the first five people to die in
Speaker 4: this factory. Her daughter's begging her not to go to work,
Speaker 4: says this is going to be a super spreader event.
Speaker 4: She's telling me this story while she's holding her eighteen
Speaker 4: month old son, who's looking at a picture of the
Speaker 4: grandmother that will never meet. And what I learned and
Speaker 4: revealed in writing this book is that at the time
Speaker 4: that the Trump administration drops this order, meatpackers like JBS
Speaker 4: Foods are sitting on record volumes of frozen meat. They're
Speaker 4: boosting exports around the world. So we basically condemned slaughterhouse
Speaker 4: workers to their deaths, not to feed Americans, but to
Speaker 4: pad the profit margins for monopolists like JBA Foods.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you explain to us what the Biden administration
Speaker 1: has done a little bit of how they've sort of
Speaker 1: tried to write the ship here and how Lena Khan
Speaker 1: has become the villain.
Speaker 4: So the Biden administration has actually broken from this history.
Speaker 4: I mean, if you go back to Reagan and you
Speaker 4: go through both Bushes Obama Clinton, we get marinated in
Speaker 4: this idea that mergers are good, there's dynamism from scale,
Speaker 4: and the government should get out of the way. We
Speaker 4: essentially eliminate antitrust enforcement. Biden comes in, He actually names
Speaker 4: the shipping carriers for price gouging during the pandemic as
Speaker 4: a source of inflation. He attacks the meatpackers and Lena Khan,
Speaker 4: who of course writes this landmark paper at Yale before
Speaker 4: she's heading the Federal Trade Commission, identifying Amazon as the
Speaker 4: sort of company that uses market concentration to create monopolies
Speaker 4: in new markets, hurting consumer earning small businesses. She takes
Speaker 4: over and she launches a probe of the meatpackers and
Speaker 4: in addition to bringing all these high profile cases against
Speaker 4: big tech companies. So that narrative has really changed.
Speaker 2: But you know, this.
Speaker 1: Election, everybody wants to fire her. Even Harris World wants
Speaker 1: to get rid of Lena Kahan.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, we don't really know. We know that Harris
Speaker 4: is certainly willing to allow the donors who have given
Speaker 4: her such a huge fundraising advantage over Trump, to believe
Speaker 4: that if she wins, there's a chance that she'll fire
Speaker 4: Lena cop The optics of that would be horrible and
Speaker 4: she would face a backlash for actually delivering. But it's
Speaker 4: certainly been a good way to get moneyed people interested
Speaker 4: in this campaign.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, it's so interesting. Thank you, thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you for coming on. Peter. I hope you'll come back.
Speaker 4: Oh, i'd love to come back. Molly, thanks so much.
Speaker 2: No moment, Oh fucker, Jesse Cannon Molly Jung fasts. So
Speaker 2: everyone's favorite New York City mayor? And by that I mean, well,
Speaker 2: it would be hard to choose a favorite when they're
Speaker 2: all so awful. Rudy Giuliani, he fucked up pretty bad.
Speaker 2: What are you seeing here?
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's worse than all the other
Speaker 1: things Rudy Giuliani does. He allegedly sent a text message
Speaker 1: begging Michigan lawmakers to overturn the twenty twenty election result,
Speaker 1: but he sent it to the wrong number. I think
Speaker 1: that we should make a rule that if you're going
Speaker 1: to text someone and ask them to do crimes for
Speaker 1: you, you should make sure it's the right number.
Speaker 2: Seems like a good rule.
Speaker 1: That is our moment of fuck ray. That's it for
Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,
Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds in politics
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