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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump won't release his medical

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Speaker 1: records despite being the oldest presidential candidate ever. We have

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Speaker 1: such a great show for you today. Democracy Defenders Pack

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Speaker 1: Jim Messina stops by to talk to us about Vice

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Speaker 1: President Harris's path to election. Ben we'll talk to New

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Speaker 1: York Times Peter S. Goodman about the impacts of the

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Speaker 1: long Shortman deal and the looming dangers that continue with

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Speaker 1: the supply chain. But first the news.

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Speaker 2: So, Molly Young Fast, if there's one thing that Trump

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Speaker 2: campaign's been doing for God, it feels like all the

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Speaker 2: way back to the Muslim Ben, they like crying about

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Speaker 2: migrants and what they do this country. Actually, I think

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Speaker 2: that happened when he came down the escalator.

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Speaker 1: Really, this should not be a surprise to anyone who

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Speaker 1: has spent the last decade dealing with this guy. But

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Speaker 1: the thing he's doing now, this hurricane really hit North Carolina, Florida,

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Speaker 1: Georgia really badly, and so Trump has decided that he's

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Speaker 1: going to lie about the FEMA money that we all

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Speaker 1: know FEMA has gotten money that both Governor Kemp and

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Speaker 1: Governor Cooper. Cooper's in North Carolina he's a Democrat. Camp

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Speaker 1: is in Georgia, he's a Republican. That both of them

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Speaker 1: have said they have gotten really good money from the

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Speaker 1: federal government. They're being taken care of. And so what

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Speaker 1: does Donald Trump do. He makes up a lie that

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Speaker 1: the disaster money is not available for the federal response.

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Speaker 1: That's not true, and that it was given to migrants

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Speaker 1: in the US here illegally. It's a lie. You should

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Speaker 1: not be surprised by this lie. Trump repeated it again

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Speaker 1: at a rally in Saginaw, Michigan, and he says that

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Speaker 1: the money's been stolen, the FEMA money. This is exactly

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Speaker 1: what autocrats do. He wants his base to hate this other,

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Speaker 1: to use an other, a group of people who are

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Speaker 1: immigrants or in the case of my ancestors, Jews and

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Speaker 1: other them, and use this very divisive language about them,

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Speaker 1: and make his base furious and feel that they have

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Speaker 1: to prevent these immigrants from coming to this country. You

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be surprised. It's right out of the autocratic playbook.

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Speaker 2: Well, another page out of the autocratic playbook is doing

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Speaker 2: wildly unpopular things and pretending you're not going to do them,

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Speaker 2: which is what Donald Trump is losing it over right now.

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Speaker 2: What are you seeing here?

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Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five, which is this conservative think tanks

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Speaker 1: agenda for the quote unquote next Trump administration, And we

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Speaker 1: did a YouTube series about it which you can google,

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Speaker 1: and in it we talk about these different plans, these

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Speaker 1: different right wing thing tanks have and they are basically

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Speaker 1: to flatten the federal government, make it tiny, and then

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Speaker 1: use parts of the federal government as arms of the

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Speaker 1: Trump campaign. For example, Project twenty twenty five wants to

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Speaker 1: make the DOJ the Department of Justice, part of Trump's

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Speaker 1: campaign and let him do whatever he wants with it.

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Speaker 1: Now that there's been some popularizing of what it is,

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Speaker 1: people don't like it this plan because it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of really unpopular stuff. So Trump is furious and wants

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Speaker 1: to distance himself, so he took to his failed social

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Speaker 1: media site to say lion Kamala Harris, who refuses to

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Speaker 1: do interviews or press conferences, though I saw her to

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Speaker 1: a rally yesterday and is now losing in the polls,

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Speaker 1: which is also not true because she's been winning in

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Speaker 1: all the Polls continues to make a thing called Project

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five the central theme of her campaign advertising

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Speaker 1: and all Trump ranted on a post untruth social on Friday. Look,

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Speaker 1: this is what he does, this is who he is.

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Speaker 1: No one should be surprised. And now let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the bibles.

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Speaker 2: Well, I have to say I actually did call this one.

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Speaker 2: What had happened that somebody would end up passing out

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Speaker 2: a lot of Trump Bibles? Because Trump is the new

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Speaker 2: religion to a lot of these people. Sure enough, Oklahoma classrooms,

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Speaker 2: they'll be getting Trump Bibles soon.

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Speaker 1: It looks like so Oklahoma is a state that has

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Speaker 1: really become a testing ground for a lot of the

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Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five stuff. They are very Republican, very trumpy,

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Speaker 1: very crazy. Superintendent Ryan Waters decided that they were going

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Speaker 1: to buy Bibles for all the schools, which is total,

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Speaker 1: totally not how any of this is supposed to go right,

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Speaker 1: because they're supposed to be a separation of church and state.

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Speaker 1: Bids open on Monday for a contractor to supply to

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Speaker 1: this Department of Education the fifty five thousand bibles. Guess

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Speaker 1: what certain specifics the bibles must have. Bibles must contain

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Speaker 1: the King James version, must contain both the Old and

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Speaker 1: New Testament, must include copies of the Pledge of Allegiance,

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Speaker 1: Declaration of Independence, US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and

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Speaker 1: must be bound in leather or leather like material. A

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Speaker 1: salesman at Mardell Christian and Education search they carry two

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Speaker 1: nine hundred bibles. None fit the parameters. But you know

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Speaker 1: what bible does fit the parameters?

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Speaker 2: Jesse, What with the mister Trumps.

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Speaker 1: I know you'll be shocked to hear this, but Lee Greenwood,

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Speaker 1: who is Donald Trump's Remember Lee Greenwood, the singer who

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: Loves, Yes, he loves playing those songs at the rally.

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Speaker 1: Lee Greenwood's God Bless the USA Bible endorsed by former

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Speaker 1: President Donald Trump and commonly referred to as the Trump Bible.

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Speaker 1: These bibles cost sixty dollars each online, and Trump receives

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Speaker 1: fees for his endorsement. Those bibles fit the parameters perfectly. Dun, dun,

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Speaker 1: dumb so mally.

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Speaker 2: One of the growing signs of dementia In dementia j

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Speaker 2: Trump is that he keeps saying dead people endorsed him.

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Speaker 2: He's done this repeatedly, but now he's just said somebody

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Speaker 2: who's a large player in the world stage endorsed them,

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Speaker 2: and they're denying it. What are you seeing here?

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Speaker 1: So Trump shared on his failed social media site that

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Speaker 1: he had been endorsed by Jamie Diamond, the CEO of

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Speaker 1: JP Morgan Chase, and Jamie Diamond responded, I don't know

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Speaker 1: anything about it. Look, Trump realizes that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people think he is a completely inappropriate candidate who will

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Speaker 1: bring a lot of financial problems this country with his

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Speaker 1: tariffs and his craziness. So he's having trouble getting endorsements

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Speaker 1: from normal, serious people. And since he's Trump, he just

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Speaker 1: is making it up and pretty trumpy, I'll say so.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of truth social BALI, it appears after the stock

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Speaker 2: is tanked that what happens a lot in Trump world

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Speaker 2: is happening there, which is everybody's turning on each other.

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Speaker 2: What are you seeing there?

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Speaker 1: So the COO left the company and now owes almost

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Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand shares to an investor. Look, there's no

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Speaker 1: way here's the COO left. Then we had a bunch

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Speaker 1: of other people leave. The shares were when they made

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Speaker 1: their debut and started trading publicly, they were seventy nine

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Speaker 1: dollars and thirty eight cents a share. Now they're sixteen

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Speaker 1: dollars and twenty cents a share. This stock keeps going

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Speaker 1: down because it doesn't the company doesn't make any money,

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Speaker 1: and it's just a complete you know, it's it's like

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Speaker 1: a should be a penny stock.

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Speaker 2: I think the funnest revelation in it, though, is that

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Speaker 2: a lot of these people are leaving because former Congressman

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Speaker 2: Devin Nunez is mismanaging the company. Who could have I

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Speaker 2: ever seen that coming?

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Speaker 1: Right, well, Devin nun As. I think it's just the

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Speaker 1: allegation of mismanagement at this moment, So we have to

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Speaker 1: be clear about that because we don't want to get sued.

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Speaker 1: But the allegations top executives exit the Trump Media Company

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Speaker 1: amid allegations of the CEO's mismanagement and retaliation shock you

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Speaker 1: Bush shocked to hear that working at Trump's social is

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Speaker 1: about as bad as working in the Trump admin and

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Speaker 1: neon as there is a He was the CEO of

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Speaker 1: the company in twenty twenty one. Now there are these

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Speaker 1: whistleblower allegations about him. So they've enlisted a lawyer in

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Speaker 1: the company. Some employees were notified. The lawyer has been

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Speaker 1: pushed out. So there's a lot of drama happening here,

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Speaker 1: and now the COO has left. This is just what

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Speaker 1: you think of when you think of Trump running a company.

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Speaker 1: I'm not very surprised, but I'm sure we'll hear more

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Speaker 1: about this.

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Speaker 2: I'm personally shocked that Retali and Devin Noon as a

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Speaker 2: manuseudo Twitter account about his color in the same sentence.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe this.

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Speaker 1: Very very shocking.

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Speaker 2: We have even more tour dates for you. Did you

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Speaker 2: know the Lincoln projects, Rick Willson have Fast Politics bleijug

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Speaker 2: Faster are heading out on tour to bring you a

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Speaker 2: night of laughs for our dark political landscape. Join us

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Speaker 2: on August twenty sixth at San Francisco at the Swedish

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Speaker 2: American Hall, or in la on August twenty seventh at

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Speaker 2: the Regent Theater. Then we're headed to the Midwest and

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Speaker 2: we'll be at the Vivarium in Milwaukee on the twenty

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Speaker 2: first of September, and on the twenty second, we'll be

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Speaker 2: in Chicago at City Winery. Then we're going to hit

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Speaker 2: the East coast. On September thirtieth, we'll be in Boston

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Speaker 2: at Arts at the Armory on the first of October.

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Speaker 2: We'll be in affiliates City Winery, and then DC on

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Speaker 2: the second at the Miracle Theater. And today we just

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Speaker 2: announced that we'll be in New York on the fourteenth

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Speaker 2: of October at City Winery. If you need to laugh

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Speaker 2: as we get through this election and hopefully never hear

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Speaker 2: from a guy who lives in a golf club again,

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Speaker 2: we got you covered. Join us and our surprise guests

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Speaker 2: to help you laugh instead of cry your way through

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Speaker 2: this election season and give you the inside analysis of

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Speaker 2: what's really going on right now. Buy your tickets now

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Speaker 2: by heading to Politics as Unusual dot bio. That's Politics

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Speaker 2: as Unusual dot bio.

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Speaker 1: Jim Messina is a former presidential campaign manager for Barack

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Speaker 1: Obama and founder of the Democracy Defender's Pack. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, Jim.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. Molly, I missed you.

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Speaker 1: Oh I'm so glad you're here. We saw each other

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Speaker 1: in Chicago for a minute, which was really fun. So

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Speaker 1: talk to me about this pack you're doing and what

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Speaker 1: it does and what it is.

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Speaker 3: So Malia, I know you and I like are similar

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Speaker 3: ages and we grew up in a world where if

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Speaker 3: you win an election day, you win the election. Yes,

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Speaker 3: that's not no longer true in a Trump world. And

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Speaker 3: you know what we have seen in the past two

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Speaker 3: and a half months three months is a Trump campaign

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Speaker 3: in the Trump ecosis to file one hundred lawsuits all

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Speaker 3: over the battleground, try to stop early voting, trying to

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Speaker 3: get RFK off the ballot in places after he got off,

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Speaker 3: trying to get rid of voting locations, changing the rules

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Speaker 3: at the very last second in Georgia. And this will

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Speaker 3: not be a surprise to anyone on the listening to

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Speaker 3: this podcast. Lawyers are fucking expensive, Molly, and so we

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Speaker 3: decided to build this super pac to basically fund the

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Speaker 3: legal war on all of these things. And so I'm

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Speaker 3: doing it with Norviizen, the famous kind of campaign lawyer

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Speaker 3: and thinker, former ambassador, and a bunch of other people,

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Speaker 3: including the former Republican Lieutenant governor of Georgia, and a

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Speaker 3: whole bunch of people who just want to see fair elections.

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Speaker 3: And we're really two things. We're going to fight these

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Speaker 3: lawsuits between now on election day to make sure people

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Speaker 3: have the right to vote, and then too, between election

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Speaker 3: day and January whatever the day is that we're counting

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Speaker 3: the electoral votes. Trump's campaign managers said, the election is

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Speaker 3: not over an election day. We're going to fight all

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Speaker 3: the way to January sixth. That's probably going to mean

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court cases. It's going to mean them trying to

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Speaker 3: intimidate people and counting the votes. You see what they're

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Speaker 3: doing in Georgia right now, which is trying to set

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Speaker 3: up a paper trail to contest the election. Like, all

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Speaker 3: of these things are happening, and we just can't think

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Speaker 3: it's enough to win on election day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good point.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, the RNC is largely no longer focused

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Speaker 1: on voter turnout but instead focused on voter intimidation and

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Speaker 1: having voter security day, which means filing these lawsuits.

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Speaker 3: Right, That's exactly right, Molly. And here's what the data says.

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Speaker 3: The research shows that voters hate all this. And if

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Speaker 3: you're thinking about like, oh, there's I see all these

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Speaker 3: stories about how on you know, there could be protests

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Speaker 3: on election day, could take forever to wait in line.

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Speaker 3: You know, the rn C, at im ally's point is saying,

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Speaker 3: right now they're going to put collection observers in there,

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Speaker 3: to contest whether people should be able to vote, not

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Speaker 3: because they think they can actually stop them from voting,

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Speaker 3: but they want to make it slower, right, They want

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Speaker 3: the lines to get bigger so people will go away.

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Speaker 3: And the truth is that works. Research shows that people

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Speaker 3: hate that stuff. And if they pull up and they

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Speaker 3: see a line all the way down the block and

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Speaker 3: they got two kids in the car, and they're like, fuck,

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Speaker 3: I was just going to pop in and vote, and

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Speaker 3: now it's going to take hours. I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: do this right. And so it's why really voting is

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Speaker 3: so important, but it's why, you know, contesting some of

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Speaker 3: these intimidation tactics is absolutely so important. So for your listeners,

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Speaker 3: I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a campaign hack. So

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Speaker 3: pairing me with a bunch of lawyers is a little funny,

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Speaker 3: but the truth is, you know, you got to do both.

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Speaker 3: You got to understand how to win a campaign and

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Speaker 3: you've got to be super smart lawyers, and so we're

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Speaker 3: putting together both.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And I

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Speaker 1: also I wonder if you could speak to what's happening

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Speaker 1: in Georgia with a handcount right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, So the the Georgia Elections Board

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Speaker 3: is changing the rules literally sixty days before the election

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Speaker 3: or now thirty five days for the election, to say

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Speaker 3: that you have to hand count on election night every

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Speaker 3: single vout to figure out how many there are that

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Speaker 3: were paper ballots, so that way they can have an

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Speaker 3: evidence trail. Now, why is that a big deal? That's

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Speaker 3: a big deal because we know it'll take forever to

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Speaker 3: figure out who's going to win. What Trump's going to

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Speaker 3: do is exactly what he did last time, which is,

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Speaker 3: say I won the election, stop counting because we don't

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Speaker 3: want all these votes counted. And you saw this in

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Speaker 3: some of the testimony that Jack Smith just just put

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Speaker 3: out there, that Trump said it didn't matter whether he

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Speaker 3: won or not. He was just can declare that he

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Speaker 3: won his polls were closed. And so they're setting this

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Speaker 3: up to be able to try to contest every vote

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Speaker 3: in Georgia in a place where it's really really hard

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Speaker 3: and going to be really really close. And when you

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Speaker 3: run sixty six thousand simulations of the election, which I

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Speaker 3: do every night because I'm a loser.

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Speaker 1: You're not alone. We do that. We all do this.

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Speaker 3: Yes, go on, Yes, you realize that if we don't

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Speaker 3: carry Pennsylvania, you have to replace it in the most

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Speaker 3: likely place to replace it is Georgia. And you know

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Speaker 3: this is what she believes because they've been there a bunch.

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Speaker 3: They started their campaign doing a bus tour down in Georgia,

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Speaker 3: and so it's just absolutely crucial to have a backup plan,

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Speaker 3: and Georgia is that plan. And Republicans know this, and

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Speaker 3: that's why they're changing the rules of the very last

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Speaker 3: second to make it more difficult.

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Speaker 1: Explain what her most likely path is. And also if

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Speaker 1: you could explain to us maybe what you think her

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Speaker 1: play is and how do you think it's working.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so great questions. We could talk about this

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Speaker 3: for hours, because it's pretty much the only thing I

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Speaker 3: care about in the world.

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Speaker 1: Me too.

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Speaker 3: When you look at how to get to two hundred

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Speaker 3: and seventy electoral boats, which you know I spent eight

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Speaker 3: years of my life doing for Barack Obama, you realize

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Speaker 3: right now now there's only seven battleground states in America,

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Speaker 3: which is depressing, and I think we all agree that sucks,

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Speaker 3: but it's true. And there Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada, North Carolina, Arizona,

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Speaker 3: and Georgia.

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Speaker 1: She has more than he did though.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yep, yep, yep, it's true. But when you look

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Speaker 3: at those seven states, they're all not created equal. And

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Speaker 3: then we say that is because the Midwestern three what

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Speaker 3: we call the Blue Wall, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Democrats

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Speaker 3: have carried those states only six out of the last

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Speaker 3: seven presidential elections. Means that you know, they've always been close,

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Speaker 3: Like you and I have spent our entire adult life

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Speaker 3: waiting for Pennsylvania to come in, right, but those are

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Speaker 3: states where we usually win. Then you can trast that

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Speaker 3: with Nevada five out of the last seven, North Carolina

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Speaker 3: one out of the last seven, and Arizona two. And

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Speaker 3: so those what we call the sun Belt states are

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Speaker 3: just harder bets, right. And when you run the sixty

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Speaker 3: six thousand simulations of the election right now, the tipping

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Speaker 3: point state in seventy percent of those is Pennsylvania, and

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Speaker 3: then in another twenty percent is Wisconsin, and then you

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Speaker 3: kind of get to Georgia and North Carolina, and again

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Speaker 3: they're not all created equal because Pennsylvania is so big.

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Speaker 3: If you replace it with Georgia, you also have to

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Speaker 3: win Nevada, right, and so look at the real clear

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Speaker 3: politics averages. All of these are within the margin of error.

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Speaker 3: But you know, North Carolina Trump currently leads, Arizona Trump

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Speaker 3: currently leads Georgia E leads although they're really close. All

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Speaker 3: these are within a point. And Molly knows. And we've

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Speaker 3: talked before about how much I hate polling. So this

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Speaker 3: is why people like Meors are so obsessed. Now we

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Speaker 3: haven't talked about the one other electoral vote we have

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Speaker 3: to have, which is Nebraska too right and Nebraska to

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Speaker 3: Nebraska and Maine do their state's weird or they allow

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Speaker 3: their congressional districts to vote differently. And Nebraska two is

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Speaker 3: one that Kamala Harris currently leads by seven points. And

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Speaker 3: you had air Nebraska two with the three Midwestern states.

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Speaker 3: If you just in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan, you get

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Speaker 3: to two hundred and sixty nine. And Molly is an

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Speaker 3: expert on this. Two sixty nine means it's the tie

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Speaker 3: the House of Representatives decides, and the Republicans controlled that process,

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Speaker 3: so we'd lose the bree So you have to win

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Speaker 3: Nebraska two. I was just there campaigning. I think we're

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Speaker 3: going to win Nebraska two.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Nebraska too. I think Republicans did the worst possible thing.

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Speaker 1: They tried to take away the point at the last minute.

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Speaker 1: It didn't happen. So there's no world in which they're

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Speaker 1: winning Nebraska too, Now, don't you agree?

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Speaker 3: I totally agree. And I think we're going to win

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Speaker 3: that congressional seat too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's Don Bacon.

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Speaker 3: Right, correct. And Tony Vargas is the Democratic candidate state

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Speaker 3: senator who is amazing, like an American success story who

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Speaker 3: grew up poor and ended up being in Teach for

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Speaker 3: America and is now now running for Congress. And I

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Speaker 3: think he's going to win. And those are one of

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Speaker 3: the seats that King Jeffreys absolutely needs to become Speaker

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Speaker 3: of the House. But Tomali's ployt what have we learned

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Speaker 3: in this last two election cycles. Don't try to stop

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Speaker 3: people from voting because it really pisses them off. And

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Speaker 3: don't take away their rights, right, those are the two

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Speaker 3: things that really animate people. You know, we saw this

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two with the people who were election deniers,

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Speaker 3: and we're seeing this now like Nebraska went from a

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Speaker 3: tied race to them trying to change the rules to

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Speaker 3: now Kamala Iris walking away with it because a whole

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Speaker 3: bunch of people, usually women who are smarter than men,

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Speaker 3: said fuck you, We're not going to allow you to

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Speaker 3: do this. And now Kama is walking away with it,

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Speaker 3: and I think Tony Margus is going to win too.

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Speaker 1: There's an anxiety that I have heard from a number

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Speaker 1: of fancy pundits quietly that she's not out there enough.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's right? And do you think she

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Speaker 1: should be out there more? Is she's spending enough time camping, meeting,

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Speaker 1: and also is walls out there enough?

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Speaker 3: I think everything, Well, you realize when you run a

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Speaker 3: presidential campaign is you really only have three things. You

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Speaker 3: have time, you have money, and you have volunteer effort.

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Speaker 3: And so her issue is, you know, she's got to

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Speaker 3: do all these things. She's building this jumbo seven forty

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Speaker 3: seven plane as she's flying it. We've never had an

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Speaker 3: election this fast, and so she's kind of got to

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Speaker 3: do everything. And she has a day job. So you know,

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Speaker 3: when there is flooding all over the South, including in

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Speaker 3: the battleground states of Georgia and North Carolina, she has

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Speaker 3: to go deal with that. When there's a potential war

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Speaker 3: in the Middle East. She has to go deal with that,

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Speaker 3: and you know what, that's campaigning. That's okay because voters

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Speaker 3: do have questions about how she would be as president,

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Speaker 3: so let them see her do that stuff. And so

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Speaker 3: I hear this punnet stuff too. I think it's okay

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Speaker 3: because we've just never had this close to an election

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Speaker 3: days with swing voters who just don't have an opinion

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Speaker 3: of her, And what they keep saying is they want

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Speaker 3: to know more about her, and I think one way

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Speaker 3: they get to know more about her is watch her

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Speaker 3: in action.

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Speaker 1: I have also talked to less fancy pundits but still

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Speaker 1: very smart who have said that her favorability numbers keep

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Speaker 1: going up and his keep going down in a way

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Speaker 1: that surprised them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I think the biggest surprise is her, because

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Speaker 3: when you looked at that her numbers when she was

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Speaker 3: vice president, when Biden was still running, you would say,

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Speaker 3: if Joe Biden would have gotten out, it shouldn't be

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Speaker 3: her because their numbers sucks so bad. And she becomes

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Speaker 3: the nominee and continues to run a perfect campaign and

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Speaker 3: in part about her right and she really her amazing

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Speaker 3: starts about being excited and enthusiasm and then the perfect

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Speaker 3: transition of the Democratic National Convention to seriousness, and then

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Speaker 3: the debate where she just wiped his ass all over

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Speaker 3: the floor. Yeah, it has been perfect and so normal.

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Speaker 3: Political pundits in the panicking ten square mile logic for

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Speaker 3: his zone called washingde just couldn't have seen that happening,

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Speaker 3: And it has happened the second thing, which we could

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Speaker 3: see happening, but you kind of wondered whether it would

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Speaker 3: which I think this story of this campaign for him

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Speaker 3: has been. The third time is not a charm, and

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Speaker 3: he stuck at forty seven and a half points forty eight,

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Speaker 3: like he just can't move, and he's giving them no

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Speaker 3: reason to kind of go to get to do what

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Speaker 3: he did in twenty sixteen people were getting twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 3: In twenty twenty, he kind of ended the campaign pretty

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Speaker 3: well and kind of got it that he had to

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Speaker 3: be crazy and got it that he had to kind

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Speaker 3: of close. Well, the wheels are coming off that bandwagon,

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Speaker 3: and they have decided, and I don't think they're wrong.

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Speaker 3: I totally understand why they're doing this. They're decided they

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Speaker 3: can't persuade any person to vote for him that is undecided.

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Speaker 3: So They're just going to burn her to the ground

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Speaker 3: out and that is their entire theory of the case.

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Speaker 3: It may not be wrong, but he is just stuck

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Speaker 3: and he can't move.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's why they did the Vance pick right,

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Speaker 1: talk to us about that.

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Speaker 3: Yep, they picked Vance because their whole theory was on

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Speaker 3: the third time, there are a whole bunch of people

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Speaker 3: who are not motivated. The donor class kind of hated him.

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Speaker 3: His base was bitching. So they're like, look, this is

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Speaker 3: a turnout election, and so we're in a straight turnout election.

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Speaker 3: The way you got up the base is pick someone

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Speaker 3: they're passionate about the way they get excited and JD.

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Speaker 3: Vance is crazy and a bunch of big chunk of

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Speaker 3: their base is crazy. And so let's go pick someone

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Speaker 3: who will make that sighting and it would go out

435
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 3: there and throw a red meat to the wolves and

436
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 3: get them excited about volunteering and being part of the

437
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 3: third campaign because no one's excited. I saw this yesterday.

438
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 3: I watched the Trump rally and they literally had to

439
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 3: cut the room in half, and even then they couldn't

440
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 3: sell it out. And this isn't a criticism on him,

441
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 3: like in the second Obama campaign. We didn't sell out

442
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 3: our first announcement event in Ohio because everyone had seen

443
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 3: Barack Obama hundred times. Right, it's just not exciting. And

444
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 3: so they decided to double down on Mado with Jada

445
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 3: Vance because they thought they were running against Joe Biden

446
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 3: a thousand percent chance. If they knew they were unning

447
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 3: against Kamala Harris, they would have picked a woman, and

448
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 3: they would not have picked Jadadvance. Now they got Jade

449
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 3: Vance there, who just gives them nothing. Had a nice debate,

450
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 3: went to the Yale debate team great, but doesn't give

451
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 3: them anything new because he said so many crazy cat

452
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 3: lady things. And so if you look at where Waltz's

453
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 3: Waltson's in rural places talking to rural voters that they

454
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 3: need to do a little bit better, which is exactly

455
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 3: what he should be doing. Vance is doing Trump rallies.

456
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 3: He's not talking to anyone new because he can't because

457
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 3: those voters aren't coming to those rallies. And so it's

458
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 3: just it's a terrible pick for the race they're now in.

459
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: Do you think that Vance does energize the magabase there

460
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: are now?

461
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 3: I think it's help well, I think a whole bunch

462
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 3: of people. Well, I think he's done two things. The

463
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 3: people that they really needed to write ten million dollar

464
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 3: checks like Elon mu and Peter Thiel and those guys,

465
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 3: you know, Jade Vance worked for them, so they think

466
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 3: this is the thing, and they're writing checks like Molly

467
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 3: and I get Cabernet, like they're just all in in

468
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 3: a way they weren't in. And then second, you know,

469
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 3: they do have him psyching up the base all over

470
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 3: the place, and that is helpful to them. And you

471
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 3: know they've decided to outsource their field effort. And there's

472
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: lots of people writing stories about this. Well, all the

473
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 3: big outside Republican money people who are writing checks on

474
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 3: that have Vance do events for that. They don't have

475
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 3: Donald Trump do it because their doners don't want to

476
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 3: hear Donald Trump. They think he's wacky. They want to

477
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 3: hear Van who says the crazy things they only think about.

478
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 3: And so on that score, he has been helpful.

479
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: It does seem like Vance is sort of able, and

480
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: we saw this in the VP debate to sell trump

481
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: Ism in a way that Trump that Trump. It's very

482
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: distracting because Trump says things like childcare is childcare, whereas

483
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: Vance says things that are not true, almost exclusively, but

484
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: that that sound more like normal politicians.

485
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 3: Speaker. I debated this Republican operative yesterday for a client

486
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 3: who will go nameless because he's actually a nice guy,

487
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 3: and he said kind of the quiet part out loud.

488
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 3: He's like, you know, Jim, I think you guys are

489
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: going to win this election because Donald Trump's so bad,

490
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 3: but you wait till the next wait mag of people

491
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 3: who aren't as polarizing but are even more right wing,

492
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,719
Speaker 3: and that is Jade Dance. Like I looked at that

493
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 3: debate the other night and said, holy fuck, I do

494
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 3: not want against this guy. And if she wins, you know,

495
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 3: he'll be in first place to be the nominee in

496
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight, which is why he took this, why

497
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 3: he made the Faustian bargain with Donald Trump.

498
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: You know, I had the exact same thought when I

499
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: watch that debate. I thought, it's not going to move

500
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: the needle this time. But this is Trump is without Trump,

501
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: and you really see how much Trump himself hurts him.

502
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: You know, Trump hurts himself and he hurts this insane

503
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: like he is almost the single thing that is protecting

504
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: us from the insane zelotray that is Project twenty twenty five,

505
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: because twenty twenty five is not Trump, but it is

506
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: the Republican Party, right, so like it will be you

507
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: know when Trump, if Trump wins, they well they will

508
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: make it happen because it is what they want. But

509
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily what Trump wants. It's just that what

510
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: Trump will go along with because he doesn't have any

511
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: particular governing principles.

512
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 3: Correct, He's for Donald Trump and always has been and

513
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 3: always will be. But there's a movement out there on

514
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 3: their side, and that movement is embodied in Project twenty

515
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: twenty five. And it's not democratic spin. It's not me

516
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: just saying this me like it's true. And they had

517
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 3: hundreds of people work for months on this and this

518
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: was their crowning document. And Mike jd Vance wrote the

519
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: forward for the guy who who was the head of

520
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 3: Project twenty twenty five for his book. Yeah, like Kevin

521
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 3: Roberts Foundation, there is foundation. Yes, it's not some conspiracy,

522
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: it is real. And so I think the future is

523
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 3: actually a little more scary assuming we win here.

524
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jim. I hope you'll come back anytime.

525
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:00,479
Speaker 3: Thank you.

526
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how

527
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: awful Trump's second term could be? Well, so are we,

528
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make

529
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: a limited series with the experts on what a disaster

530
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five would be for America's future. Right now,

531
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: we have just released the final episode of this five

532
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly Jong

533
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube. And if you

534
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber,

535
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: you can hit play and put your phone in the

536
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: lock screen and it will play back just like a podcast.

537
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: All five episodes are online now. We need to educate

538
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: Americans on what Trump's second term would or could do

539
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: to this country, so please watch it and spread the word.

540
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: Peter S. Goodman is the global economics correspondent for The

541
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: New York Times and author of How the World Ran

542
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: Out of Everything. Welcome to Fast Politics, Peter.

543
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 4: Goodman, thanks very much, great to be here.

544
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: So you have a book out, and then also we

545
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: just had this nearly averted strike that happened. But first,

546
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: the book is called How the World Ran out of Everything,

547
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: and it was really like the pandemic was the first

548
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: time any of us, Maybe not any of us, but

549
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: the first time I realized how seamlessly the supply chain

550
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: usually were.

551
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a very personal thing that caused me

552
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 4: to write this book. I never thought I write a

553
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 4: book about the global supply chain. I write about supply chains,

554
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 4: but it seemed kind of wonky. And then it's the

555
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 4: first wave of the pandemic. Living in London, have a

556
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: newborn arrives. He's born on April eighth, twenty twenty, and

557
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 4: my wife is stoic about the fact that I can

558
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 4: only be in the hospital for an hour, her parents

559
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 4: can't fly over from New York to help with the baby,

560
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 4: we can't go to the pediatrician. But where she really

561
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 4: loses it. I remember this vividly. As we get home

562
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 4: and she says, well, let's order some hand sanitizer. We

563
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 4: can't find any online. I'm walking round our North London neighborhood,

564
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 4: no hand sanitizer. Then we try to buy the ingredients

565
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 4: to make our own hand sanitizer. Same story. She looks

566
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 4: at me and she says, hey, you're supposed to know

567
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 4: how this stuff works. What's going on? And I realized

568
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 4: that I didn't fully know, and as I started to

569
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 4: dig into it, I realized that essentially, globalization as we

570
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 4: knew it was not exactly unraveling, but it was failing. Yeah,

571
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 4: and the sides had been there, and it required book

572
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 4: late treatment to make sense of yeah exactly.

573
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: I think that what strikes me about this is we

574
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: became this global world so quickly, and we had never

575
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: had something like this where all of a sudden everything

576
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: stopped right.

577
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 4: And it's one of those few things that we actually

578
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 4: have faith in, you know, like whatever your politics are,

579
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 4: or we may know that it's not necessarily savory to

580
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 4: rely on Amazon to the extent that we do. That

581
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 4: they're not treating their warehouse workers well that you know,

582
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 4: their Scuman rights violations in terms of this supply chain

583
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 4: in places like Shinjong, and you know, we know all that,

584
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 4: but we still assume you click the buy button, you

585
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 4: wait maybe a couple of days, sometimes only a few hours,

586
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 4: and a truck just magically shows up at your door.

587
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 4: And when that breaks down in the middle of you know,

588
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 4: our darkest hour, it's pretty your wildering. It's kind of

589
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 4: cosmically bewildering, and it turns out that all the pieces

590
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 4: that are working behind the scenes to make this stuff

591
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 4: happen are fascinating, which was something I didn't understand. So

592
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 4: I actually dug in and started thinking about these people

593
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 4: were invited to not think about truck drivers, longshore workers,

594
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 4: warehouse workers. I mean I spent a lot of time,

595
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 4: you know, I rode around in a truck for three

596
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 4: days through the frozen midsection of America to see what

597
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 4: that's like up close. And when you start to realize

598
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 4: that we're dependent upon all these people, I hope you'll

599
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 4: never see a package the same way again.

600
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, what we've seen with these supply chains is that

601
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: there were so many weaknesses. Like I remember trying to

602
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: get paper towels and you couldn't get paper towels. And

603
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: I think that after this supply chain hiccup, it's like

604
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: a little bit like the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic, which

605
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,479
Speaker 1: is that we did actually learn some lessons, right that

606
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: would changed. Like I think about chips and the chips

607
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: and science acts right like they they manufact they started

608
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: manufacturing chips in the United States, and that is because

609
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: right what happened with the supply chain.

610
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've learned some lessons, and that we haven't learned

611
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 4: some lessons we've learned in the things that are strategic

612
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 4: and deemed central to national security, like computer chips, like

613
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 4: to a lesser extent, electric vehicles and batter you know,

614
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 4: the Biden administration is at least tens of billions dollars

615
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 4: in subsidies to try to generate plants at home. Then

616
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 4: big companies that have billions of dollars to throw around

617
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 4: the like Walmart, they are shifting some of their production

618
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 4: out of China to places like Mexico to serve the

619
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 4: American market India, to get out from under the Chinese

620
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 4: supply chain. Not abandoning China. It's more of sort of

621
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 4: like a portfolio shift in the margins. And there's more

622
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 4: and more of a conversation about reshowing near, showing friends, showing,

623
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 4: whatever term you want, de risking, you know, sort of

624
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 4: not just pretending that there are no risks when we

625
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 4: treat a factory across the ocean the same way as

626
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 4: a factory, you know, down the street. And we've been

627
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 4: invited to pretend that as long as there's container shipping

628
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 4: in the Internet, we can just carry on as if

629
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 4: there are no risks. Those risks are now pretty explicit.

630
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 4: On the other hand, the financial incentives that have pushed

631
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 4: all of this stuff to low cost countries are still there.

632
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 4: And we have had these shocks before, not as big

633
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 4: as the pandemic. But you know, I wrote my first

634
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 4: supply chain shock story back in nineteen ninety nine, where

635
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 4: there's an earthquake in Taiwan that hit computer chips. After Fukushima,

636
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 4: the nuclear disaster in Japan at twenty eleven, it is

637
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 4: at twenty twelve, a lot of people said, oh, we've

638
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 4: overdone it with these long supply chains across the ocean.

639
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 4: Let's think about reallocating, recalibrating, you know whatever. And we

640
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 4: just carried on. Because any CEO of a publicly trading

641
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 4: company who says, let's build an extra warehouse or you know,

642
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 4: spend money in the name of versilience, that's an invitation

643
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 4: to lose your job. Whereas the CEO says, let's just

644
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 4: keep doing it. We're going to rely heavily on China.

645
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 4: We're going to go to the lowest cost providers. You know,

646
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 4: there will be a shock, because there are inevitably shocks

647
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: that will reveal the price of that. But with any

648
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 4: luck that CEO will have cast their stock options, they'll

649
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 4: be on a beach and a hammock, you know, with

650
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 4: a cocktail. And that's still true.

651
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's definitely true. So explain to us

652
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: about the dock workers, because this is really you know,

653
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: it's funny. I was somewhere with some political people and

654
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: I said, like, what are you the most worried about?

655
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: And everyone was like, the doc workers, Like that actually

656
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: could be a disaster written all over it. Now, the

657
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: Biden administration, which has been really, really really good with

658
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: unions and has been rewarded by them by with nothing right.

659
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: I mean, these unions are not making endorsements despite the

660
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: fact that Biden was the first person to go and

661
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: the first president ever to walk on a picket line.

662
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: Explain to us what happened with the dock workers.

663
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 4: First of all, yes, there was a nightmare scenario for

664
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 4: the Biden administration if the strike had gone on. The

665
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 4: dock workers. These are the people who load and unload

666
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 4: container ships, which are like the workhorses of the modern

667
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 4: global economy. They walked off the job on East Coast

668
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 4: and Gulf Coast ports. We're talking about like forty five

669
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 4: thousand people, shutting down fourteen major ports. And this raised

670
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 4: the prospect that we'd be talking about inflation again. If

671
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 4: this strike had gone on longer, we'd have probably had

672
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 4: floating traffic jams off of major ports. I mean, they

673
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 4: were already starting to develop this risk that there'd be

674
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 4: congestion out west because cargo the camp be unloaded at

675
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 4: Newark or Savannah or Houston, you know, gets diverted to

676
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 4: la or Long Beach, where a lot of people will

677
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 4: remember we had cues stretching seventy ships. Yeah, so this

678
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 4: was indeed to night ersonary. The problem for Biden is

679
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 4: that despite being seen as the most pro union president,

680
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 4: you know, maybe ever that's how he'd liked to be seen.

681
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 4: There are actually some bad memories about the rail strike

682
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 4: within the labor book.

683
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right, talk about the rail strike.

684
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 4: Yeah. So there was no rail strike because Biden intervened.

685
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 4: He enforced this settlement on the rail workers without paid

686
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 4: sick leave, which was a source of real anger. And

687
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 4: so the optics of waiting into this one he had

688
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 4: at his disposal on nineteen forty seven law that taft

689
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 4: hardly act. He could have said this the threat to

690
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 4: national security.

691
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 5: Could have ordered an eighty day cooling off period, which

692
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 5: Reagan did with the air traffic controllers. Right, Reagan intervened

693
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 5: and actually fired air traffic controllers.

694
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 4: There have been other times in history when this Act

695
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 4: has been invoked. Biden said he didn't want to do it.

696
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 4: The optics would have been really bad. I mean, of course, yes,

697
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 4: to your point, labor is a core democratic constituency. On

698
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 4: the other hand, not waiting in every day that the

699
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 4: strike went on raised the risk of product shortages, lots

700
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 4: of anxiety, increased shipping rates, which would get filtered through

701
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 4: as higher consumer presses, so there were no great options.

702
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 4: In the end, it seems like the White House managed

703
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 4: to coax the parties back to the table to suspend

704
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 4: the strike until January fifteen. There's still some huge outstanding issues,

705
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 4: like the pace of automation. Dock workers look at robots

706
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 4: as the things that are going to replace them. I mean,

707
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 4: the history of container shipping is the story of shippers

708
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 4: using technology to bypass the possibility that dock workers can

709
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 4: withdraw their labor and bring everything to a halt. But

710
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 4: you know, the political ticking time bomb that was this

711
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 4: strike is now for the moment taken off the table,

712
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 4: and that's a pretty big deal for Harris.

713
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk for two seconds about why you think

714
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: the labor unions are not endorsing her. And I'm talking

715
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: about there are two that I'm thinking about. One is

716
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: the Fireman that was yesterday, and then the other one

717
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: is this larger union, and then you had those small

718
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: the teamsters. You had those smaller unions, the more local

719
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: unions in the swing states endorsing her book. But why

720
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: do you think that is?

721
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 4: You know, it's a very tricky dynamic. Because I am

722
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 4: not going to say something original here. I mean the

723
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 4: white working class, in particular in the industrialized parts of

724
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 4: the country, like the Upper Midwest, there's a lot of

725
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 4: rake and file support for Trump, and so the union

726
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 4: leadership is stuck in a tough position. I mean, they

727
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 4: understand that if Trump wins, there's no way he's going

728
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 4: to be friendly to labor. There's no chance he's going

729
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 4: to put people in places of power, like at the

730
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 4: National Labor Relations Board who are friendly to the labor agenda.

731
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 4: On the other hand, you know, you look at places

732
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 4: like Michigan, a key battleground state where the UAW came

733
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 4: out early and endorsed Biden, and the rake and file

734
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 4: was really split because Biden was pushing things like mandates

735
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 4: for electric vehicles, which UAW rank and file workers look

736
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 4: at as a job killer in the immediate term. That

737
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 4: you don't need as many people to make an electric

738
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 4: vehicle as you do a conventional gas powered car. That's

739
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 4: a very tricky dynamic.

740
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so striking to me because he really has

741
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: been so focused, Like, I mean, if Trump gets in there,

742
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: throw right to work laws.

743
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 4: I mean, Trump is the master at acting like a

744
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 4: populist and promising lots of stuff, telling us that these

745
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 4: tariffs that have already been demonstrated to be job killers

746
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 4: in the places where they're supposed to bring jobs back,

747
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 4: are going to get everybody working. You know, he's the

748
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 4: master of the photo op. Right, Let's put tariffs on

749
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 4: steel and go get a picture taken with a bunch

750
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 4: of steel workers and a shuttered plant going back to work.

751
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 4: And never mind the fact that there are roughly eight

752
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 4: times as many people who go to work at factories

753
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 4: that buy steal as there are people who go to

754
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 4: plants that make steal. But you know that's a footnote

755
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 4: in a Department of Commerce report or some wonky blog post.

756
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 4: The thing that leads is to picture of Trump with

757
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 4: a hard hat on standing next to steel workers. And

758
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 4: this is a game he plays very well while he's

759
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 4: gaining the support of people who actually have benefited from

760
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 4: moving jobs overseas and basically doing the bidding of the

761
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 4: investor class by promising tax cuts and deregulations.

762
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: To us sort of what has changed. We can get

763
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 1: paper towels again, we can get purel but have there

764
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: been lasting changes? I mean, are we prepared if something

765
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: like this happens again? And also to sort of talk

766
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: us through where we are right now with the supply chain.

767
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 4: Well, we're better prepared in areas where there were significant

768
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 4: shortages the last time. So it was interesting. You know,

769
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 4: in the run up to this doc worker strike, lots

770
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 4: of companies, especially retailers, brought in lots of additional inventory

771
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 4: in anticipation there'd be a problem, so we don't really

772
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 4: have to worry about the holiday season. On the other hand,

773
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 4: you look at an industry like automotive, where they're governed

774
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,919
Speaker 4: by this mantra just in time. You know, we don't

775
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 4: want to stash lots of parts and components in warehouses.

776
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 4: That's a drain on our capital. Will rely on the

777
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 4: just in time supply chain to deliver what we need

778
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 4: at the assembly line in real time. And as a

779
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 4: result to the strike, I had an automotive consultant tell

780
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 4: me that auto plants in the US were sitting on

781
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 4: maybe three days worth of inventory, with another week you know,

782
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 4: somewhere on trucks, trains, some of that stuck on ships.

783
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 4: That's a sign that the shareholder interests are still paramount

784
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 4: and are still preventing us from doing stuff that would

785
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 4: actually be more resilient. And as long as you know,

786
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 4: companies are managed for short term shareholder interests, we will

787
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 4: continue to be vulnerable to the next shot.

788
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that why it's so hard to get a

789
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: handle on wages going up? I mean, is that why

790
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: wages aren't going up? Actually now they are, but in

791
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: some places they're not that wages we're not keeping pace

792
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: with inflation.

793
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 4: Wage growth has actually been fairly healthy this year, and

794
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 4: that's a sign. You know that unemployment's been really low

795
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 4: for now several years, and so labor has greater leverage

796
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 4: than it used to have. But you know, one of

797
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 4: the things that I think doesn't get wrestled with enough,

798
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 4: and in my book I really get into some detail.

799
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 4: Here is the extent to which monopoly power determines much

800
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 4: of what happens in the economy. And a lot of

801
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 4: rising prices and a lot of shortages reflect a kind

802
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 4: of engineered scarcity where every time something bad happens to

803
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 4: the rest of us, it's good for handful of companies

804
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 4: that don't have enough competition. And you know, the ultimate

805
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 4: thing we can look at today is so overnight as

806
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 4: we're speaking, there's been a settlement to the stock worker strike.

807
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 4: And you would think, well, that's good news for the

808
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 4: shipping companies. Right now there's stock workers who can load

809
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 4: and unload cargo. Their stocks plunged on this news because

810
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 4: the expectation with the investor class was so long as

811
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 4: there were bottlenecks at ports, there'd be lots of anxiety

812
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 4: amongst shippers and they'd be willing to pay whatever it

813
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 4: costs to get their stuff onto ships, and so prices

814
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 4: we're going to go up. And the settlement of the strike,

815
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 4: which is good news for the real economy. It's good

816
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 4: news for workers, good news for consumers, not good news

817
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 4: for the shipping carriers who are organized in these three

818
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 4: alliances think like airline alliances, like you know, Star Alliance

819
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 4: or One World or whatever, and they dominate the most

820
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 4: lucrative routes from China to the West coast of the

821
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 4: United States, from Asia to Europe. So this is a

822
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 4: sign that they can't lift prices, and that should tell

823
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 4: us that there's something really out of whack in the

824
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 4: way we're invited to think about this economy as being

825
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 4: all about supply and demand. There's a lot of monopoly

826
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 4: power and engineered scarcity.

827
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, engineered scarcity. Talk to us about that more. How

828
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: does that work exactly?

829
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 4: Take a look at the beef industry. So beef industry

830
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 4: is controlled in the US by four companies that have

831
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 4: an eighty five percent hold on the capacity to slaughter cattle.

832
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 4: That's higher than during the robber barons. And that's a

833
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 4: reflection of you know, excessive deregulation. Embrace of this idea

834
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 4: both sides of the political aisle. The greater scale is

835
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 4: good for consumers. Any merger that doesn't immediately lift prices

836
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 4: should be welcomed, or at least government should get out

837
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 4: of the way. So now we got these four companies,

838
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 4: the biggest of which JBS Foods is run by these

839
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 4: two convicted felons, these brothers in Brazil who borrowed all

840
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 4: this money under fraudul Remember.

841
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: These guys, Yeah, yeah, yeah, they did. They make a

842
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: deal with the trumpet men.

843
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 4: Well, this is a story I tell on my book.

844
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 4: So they got the Trump administration, not just them, by

845
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 4: the way, but the other large meat packers to do

846
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 4: the industry's bidding during the first wave of the pandemic,

847
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 4: and they kept the slaughterhouses open. They deemed slaughterhouse workers

848
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 4: essential workers. And they actually said they got the Trump

849
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 4: administration Trump and executive order saying if the slaughterhouse is closed,

850
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 4: that's a threat to the food supply. We're going to

851
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 4: go hungry, bike pants. Thanks slaughterhouse workers for the great sacrifice. Well,

852
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 4: so I tell the story of this woman Tin I,

853
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 4: who is a refugee from meandmar settled in Denver, gets

854
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 4: a job of the JBS Foods slaughterhouse in Greeley, Colorado,

855
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 4: is one of the first five people to die in

856
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 4: this factory. Her daughter's begging her not to go to work,

857
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 4: says this is going to be a super spreader event.

858
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 4: She's telling me this story while she's holding her eighteen

859
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 4: month old son, who's looking at a picture of the

860
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 4: grandmother that will never meet. And what I learned and

861
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 4: revealed in writing this book is that at the time

862
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 4: that the Trump administration drops this order, meatpackers like JBS

863
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 4: Foods are sitting on record volumes of frozen meat. They're

864
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:51,280
Speaker 4: boosting exports around the world. So we basically condemned slaughterhouse

865
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 4: workers to their deaths, not to feed Americans, but to

866
00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 4: pad the profit margins for monopolists like JBA Foods.

867
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you explain to us what the Biden administration

868
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: has done a little bit of how they've sort of

869
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: tried to write the ship here and how Lena Khan

870
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: has become the villain.

871
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 4: So the Biden administration has actually broken from this history.

872
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 4: I mean, if you go back to Reagan and you

873
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 4: go through both Bushes Obama Clinton, we get marinated in

874
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 4: this idea that mergers are good, there's dynamism from scale,

875
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 4: and the government should get out of the way. We

876
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 4: essentially eliminate antitrust enforcement. Biden comes in, He actually names

877
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 4: the shipping carriers for price gouging during the pandemic as

878
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 4: a source of inflation. He attacks the meatpackers and Lena Khan,

879
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 4: who of course writes this landmark paper at Yale before

880
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 4: she's heading the Federal Trade Commission, identifying Amazon as the

881
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 4: sort of company that uses market concentration to create monopolies

882
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 4: in new markets, hurting consumer earning small businesses. She takes

883
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 4: over and she launches a probe of the meatpackers and

884
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 4: in addition to bringing all these high profile cases against

885
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 4: big tech companies. So that narrative has really changed.

886
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 2: But you know, this.

887
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: Election, everybody wants to fire her. Even Harris World wants

888
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: to get rid of Lena Kahan.

889
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 4: Right, Well, we don't really know. We know that Harris

890
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 4: is certainly willing to allow the donors who have given

891
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 4: her such a huge fundraising advantage over Trump, to believe

892
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 4: that if she wins, there's a chance that she'll fire

893
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 4: Lena cop The optics of that would be horrible and

894
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 4: she would face a backlash for actually delivering. But it's

895
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 4: certainly been a good way to get moneyed people interested

896
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 4: in this campaign.

897
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, it's so interesting. Thank you, thank you, thank

898
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 1: you for coming on. Peter. I hope you'll come back.

899
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 4: Oh, i'd love to come back. Molly, thanks so much.

900
00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: No moment, Oh fucker, Jesse Cannon Molly Jung fasts. So

901
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 2: everyone's favorite New York City mayor? And by that I mean, well,

902
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 2: it would be hard to choose a favorite when they're

903
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 2: all so awful. Rudy Giuliani, he fucked up pretty bad.

904
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 2: What are you seeing here?

905
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's worse than all the other

906
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: things Rudy Giuliani does. He allegedly sent a text message

907
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,720
Speaker 1: begging Michigan lawmakers to overturn the twenty twenty election result,

908
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: but he sent it to the wrong number. I think

909
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: that we should make a rule that if you're going

910
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: to text someone and ask them to do crimes for

911
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: you, you should make sure it's the right number.

912
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 2: Seems like a good rule.

913
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Speaker 1: That is our moment of fuck ray. That's it for

914
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Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

915
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds in politics

916
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: make sense of all the chaos. If you enjoyed this podcast,

917
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend or an enemy and

918
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.