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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Alloway.

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Speaker 1: Tracy, you know, a few episodes that we've done lately

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Speaker 1: from different angles has suggested to me, like we really

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Speaker 1: need to talk more about, well, the sort of the

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Speaker 1: labor aspect of building cars, the labor aspect of like

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Speaker 1: sort of this renewed industrialization in the US.

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Speaker 2: Right, because there is this whole discussion going on about

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Speaker 2: whether or not the manufacturing process of evs is significantly

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Speaker 2: different to gas engine cars. And I think there's an

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Speaker 2: ongoing debate about whether or not you need fewer workers

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Speaker 2: in order to make an electrical vehicle rather than say

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Speaker 2: a traditional combustion engine.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you know this to my mind, So we

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Speaker 1: just did the recently did an episode with Corey Kanter

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Speaker 1: of Bloomberg and Effort. We talked about this. We talked

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Speaker 1: about it back in April at the econ Twitter event

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Speaker 1: where there was a lot of talk about this sort

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Speaker 1: of like pressure to drive down costs for batteries. But

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Speaker 1: it also came up, you know, we talked to Jared

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Speaker 1: Bernstein of the White House, and I think there's this

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Speaker 1: tension because obviously the sort of organized labor is this

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Speaker 1: really important pillar of the Democratic Party and for the

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Speaker 1: White House. And at the same time, there's this question

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Speaker 1: about whether this push that the administration is making is

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Speaker 1: going to leave a lot of workers behind or cost

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Speaker 1: a lot of jobs as part of this transition.

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Speaker 2: Right there is this ongoing tension between wanting to create

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Speaker 2: a vibrant and competitive ev industry and battery making in

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Speaker 2: the United States, but also attaching better work conditions to

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Speaker 2: it for workers, like how do you actually compete against

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Speaker 2: cheap labor in say China or Mexico when it comes

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Speaker 2: to making evs or batteries while sort of making sure

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Speaker 2: that your workers have good wages, good living conditions and

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Speaker 2: all of that.

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Speaker 1: And then of course there's the fact that the uaw

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Speaker 1: their contract with the Big three automakers gm Ford in Stalantis.

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Speaker 1: I believe it expires September fourteenth, so that is a

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Speaker 1: date that is fast approaching and setting aside evs and

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Speaker 1: Bidenomics and industrialization, all these things we talk about, this

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Speaker 1: has been a sort of summer of intense labor action

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Speaker 1: that is a pretty intense contract negotiation at ups with

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Speaker 1: the Teamsters seems to have been resolved averted without a strike,

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Speaker 1: but there is a lot of labor activity that seems

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Speaker 1: to be happening right now.

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Speaker 2: Hot union summer. Can we say that No, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Sure it's been said. I guarantee it exactly.

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Speaker 2: But this actually reminds me. I mean, one of the

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Speaker 2: earlier episodes we did during the pandemic was about labor

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Speaker 2: power in previous pandemics. I think we were talking about

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Speaker 2: the Great Plague from the Middle Ages and what happened

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Speaker 2: after that, But that was that's a big theme of

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Speaker 2: that particular historical event, which is if you lose a

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Speaker 2: big chunk of the workforce, while suddenly all the remaining

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Speaker 2: labors are empowered and they can start asking for better conditions,

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Speaker 2: and so to some extent, you know, fast forward to

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, we are basically seeing the continued outcome

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Speaker 2: of a lot of the disruptions from the pandemic plus

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Speaker 2: some of these new efforts from the Biden administration.

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Speaker 1: And the unemployment rate is low, there's still a lot

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Speaker 1: of jobs, and inflation is high, so people rightfully expect

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Speaker 1: to have wages the cost of living improve their cost

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Speaker 1: of living so they're not falling behind all right, many

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Speaker 1: things coming together at once, so we really need to

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Speaker 1: do an episode on exactly this topic. And I believe

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Speaker 1: we have two perfect guests. We are going to be

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Speaker 1: speaking with Dan Vicente, he is the director of Region

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Speaker 1: nine at the UAW. And we are also going to

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Speaker 1: be speaking with Alex Press, a staff writer a Jacobin

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Speaker 1: magazine who's been covering labor action for a long time.

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Speaker 1: I always talked to Eli. I want to understand something

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Speaker 1: that's going on with the labor movement. So Dan and Alex,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the Outlaws podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks so much for having us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me, buddy.

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Speaker 1: Dan, let me start with you. What is the what

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Speaker 1: do you do? What does it mean that you're the

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Speaker 1: director of Region nine at the UAW.

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Speaker 5: So I am the chief executive for all of the

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Speaker 5: auto workers in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Central and Western

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Speaker 5: New York. So we cover a wide range of sectors

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Speaker 5: to include the auto sector, but higher education workers, cafeteria workers,

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Speaker 5: casino dealers in Atlantic City, public defenders in Philadelphia County,

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Speaker 5: Delaware County, and Pennsylvania. All sorts of things represent all

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Speaker 5: sorts of different workers throughout.

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Speaker 4: The three states.

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Speaker 2: I want to get into some of the current goings on,

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Speaker 2: I guess with UAW. But before we do, maybe Alex,

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Speaker 2: could you set the scene for us in terms of

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Speaker 2: some of these disputes that we've seen this summer, Like

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Speaker 2: what is generating feels like more proactive union activity in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: Three, I mean, big question.

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Speaker 6: You know, there have been a handful of labor disputes

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Speaker 6: that Joe mentioned in his introduction, where really in the

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Speaker 6: past we would have seen unions and workers either accepting

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Speaker 6: concessions or fairly divided over what to do in the

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Speaker 6: face of employee pressure, and then this summer we've really.

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Speaker 3: Seen unity unions going on the offensive.

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Speaker 6: I'm thinking here specifically, of course, of the UPS contract

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Speaker 6: that the teamsters have just negotiated. The rank and file

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Speaker 6: haven't voted on it yet, but the details that are

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Speaker 6: out thus far suggest that UPS basically blinked right. They

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Speaker 6: offered you know, incredible advances both in wages, working conditions.

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Speaker 6: You know, as Sean O'Brien, the new president says, no concessions, right,

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Speaker 6: which is really different than how things used to be

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Speaker 6: for labor. Obviously, Similarly in Los Angeles with the actors

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Speaker 6: and writers, those that are on streng Here. Again, in

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Speaker 6: all of these examples that I'm giving you, hear a

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Speaker 6: couple things. One is that you know, there's a tight

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Speaker 6: labor market still, Unemployment is low, inflation is high. People

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Speaker 6: have reasons to both sort of stand up and fight

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Speaker 6: as if they often put it or leave if a

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Speaker 6: job is no good, right. I mean, during the pandemic,

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Speaker 6: we saw high quit rates, and in part that was

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Speaker 6: about workers feeling confident that they could find better jobs elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: And so this sort of the way people often praise.

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Speaker 6: It is that they used to be quitting and going

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Speaker 6: other places, and now they're staying and making their jobs better.

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Speaker 6: And so we're seeing those you know going on the offensive,

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Speaker 6: fighting for strong contracts where you do have a union,

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Speaker 6: you know, fighting for a.

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Speaker 3: New union where you don't have one.

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Speaker 6: And so I often attribute to you know, a couple

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Speaker 6: factors here, just to make it kind of a in brief,

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Speaker 6: I usually say that a lot of these workers, especially

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Speaker 6: the younger ones you know, have kind of been radicalized

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Speaker 6: in certain ways over the past ten years. Bernie Sanders

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Speaker 6: here is a big part of the story when you

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Speaker 6: talk to the young unionists rather than the leadership They'll

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Speaker 6: often point to Bernie Sanders' presidential campaigns is when they

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Speaker 6: first sort of encountered class politics and this idea of, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, the labor movement, what is a union? They didn't know.

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Speaker 6: And then you get them going through the pandemic where

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Speaker 6: things are sort of clarified as far as the lines

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Speaker 6: and the risk of the amount of risk that workers

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Speaker 6: face versus their employer, and you get people saying that

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Speaker 6: they felt they had nothing left to lose, and so

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Speaker 6: that's you know, the interesting thing about the labor movement

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Speaker 6: is that runs on a slightly slower timeline than say

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Speaker 6: electoral politics, so you kind of have to wait a

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Speaker 6: couple of years to see what's going to happen. Right,

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Speaker 6: It's based on contracts, It's based on an extremely slow

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Speaker 6: process of organizing a union. And so I would always

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Speaker 6: tell people, as the Sanders campaign was kind of coming

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Speaker 6: to an end in twenty twenty, just wait a few

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Speaker 6: years and we will see what becomes of this. And

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Speaker 6: I think all of those factors together you get the

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Speaker 6: picture of what we've seen this summer.

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Speaker 2: Long and variable lags in labor politics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very very very well put. So I mean, as

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Speaker 1: you say, Okay, so the Sanders campaign sort of awaken people,

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Speaker 1: maybe radicalize people. Dan, Can you talk to us a

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Speaker 1: little bit about how you got in your role? So

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Speaker 1: I believe you were elected in March of this year,

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Speaker 1: the same time that the new UAW president, Sean Fame,

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Speaker 1: was also elected. And I guess one of the words

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Speaker 1: that like other parties are their tickets. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about that process. A word that I

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Speaker 1: keep seeing is like more militant is a word that

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Speaker 1: comes up. But can you describe, like a little bit

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Speaker 1: about like how that electoral process worked and what the

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Speaker 1: people your allies sort of pitched to as the UAW members, Like,

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Speaker 1: what was your pitch to the members that said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: elect me instead of whoever else?

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Speaker 4: So, yeah, we just had an internal election.

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Speaker 5: A lot of the big unions of gross country have

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Speaker 5: had recent elections, and we've seen in pretty much all

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Speaker 5: of the unions that there is new leadership being elected

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Speaker 5: to these positions. I started in twenty seventeen in a

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Speaker 5: union shop and now I sit on the international Executive

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Speaker 5: And the only reason that I am here being so

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Speaker 5: new to the game, is because there is a general feeling,

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Speaker 5: primarily from the younger workforce, that the path end of

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Speaker 5: the middle class that used to exist for our grandparents

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Speaker 5: and parents generation no longer exists. Like Alex was saying,

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Speaker 5: it used to be pre pandemic that these companies could

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Speaker 5: tell our employees listen, we can replace you in a minute.

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Speaker 5: After the pandemic, where we're all deemed essential, where we

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Speaker 5: all had to work through the pandemic, we were deemed

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Speaker 5: essential workers. And coming out of the pandemic, we know

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Speaker 5: the realities. You can't replace us, and we are the

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Speaker 5: essential workers. You need us to make the products that

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Speaker 5: make you money. We don't need you as much as

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Speaker 5: you need us. And so there's been an awakening in

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Speaker 5: the labor movement. And the other part of that is,

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Speaker 5: you know, there has been more radical political movements over

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Speaker 5: the last ten years, as Als was saying, with the

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Speaker 5: Bernie Sanders left and stuff, But there's also a huge

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Speaker 5: part of our workforce that aren't really politically partisan one

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Speaker 5: way or the other. What they do know is that

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Speaker 5: their standard of living has gone down, their lives are harder,

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Speaker 5: and the companies we worked for are making record profits.

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Speaker 5: It's not a sustainable system for not just a union

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Speaker 5: or a company. Before our society. So there is a

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Speaker 5: new generation coming up and we are more militant. We're

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Speaker 5: more militant because we've been waiting for politicians, one party

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Speaker 5: the other to come and save us, and they have

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Speaker 5: done nothing for us.

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Speaker 4: So we are angry and we feel that we're going

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Speaker 4: to have to do it ourselves.

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Speaker 1: So just real quickly, specifically, when you ran for in

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Speaker 1: Region nine, or when the pre when your president Shawn

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Speaker 1: Fein ran like, what was your message specifically to the

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Speaker 1: rank and file that you would deliver that in your view,

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Speaker 1: prior union leadership did not.

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Speaker 5: It was It was a simple message. It was I'm

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Speaker 5: from the shop floor. Just four months ago, I was

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Speaker 5: working two plastic extruders in Pennsylvania. I was a committee

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Speaker 5: man elected in my local, but I had never had

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Speaker 5: a position in the international. And my message to our

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Speaker 5: membership within the region was the previous incumbents have become

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Speaker 5: too comfortable with management. They've been around too long. The

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Speaker 5: union leadership has been around so long, they've cosied up

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Speaker 5: the management. They've negotiated as concessinary contracts, and they forget

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Speaker 5: what life and the struggles are of working men and

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Speaker 5: women on these floors.

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Speaker 4: And we have to run against the incumbency because it's easy.

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Speaker 5: To say that management has major life harder and giving

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Speaker 5: you grappy contracts. It's harder to say that the union

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Speaker 5: owns a part of that, we're responsible for that as well.

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Speaker 5: And it's tough to look in the mirror and say

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Speaker 5: our institution has failed. But the new leadership ran on

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Speaker 5: a platform and we're not going to continue to fail.

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Speaker 5: If anything, the COVID nineteen late bear the inequities in

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Speaker 5: our society and we're not going to continue to just

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Speaker 5: I don't know if I can curse in this pot.

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Speaker 4: Yes, but we're not going to continue each shit. That's fine.

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't be the first person, of course. You know

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Speaker 2: you mentioned dissatisfaction with previous union leadership a couple of

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Speaker 2: times now, particularly from the sort of younger generation of workers.

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Speaker 2: And one thing that I keep hearing coming up in

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Speaker 2: context is the word tiering. Can you explain what teering

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Speaker 2: is in this context?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So tiered wages were introduced in the Big three

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Speaker 5: auto manufacturing contracts during the recession, They've existed in other

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Speaker 5: unions contracts for some time.

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Speaker 4: Or basically, what it.

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Speaker 5: Is is, if you're hired ask a certain date, whatever

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Speaker 5: that X date is, you could be paid ten, twelve, thirteen,

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Speaker 5: fifteen dollars less an hour than the person working right

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Speaker 5: next to you that was hired on why dates, So

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Speaker 5: depending on when you were hired dictates your wages.

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Speaker 4: So you'll never make the maximum amount of money.

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Speaker 5: As people hired before you, You'll never get to the

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Speaker 5: same benefit level as the people for you, and you

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Speaker 5: could be in a tiered progression. It could be what's

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Speaker 5: called an in progression wage for up to seven years.

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Speaker 2: What was now for that? I struggle to understand how

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Speaker 2: that would ever really be accepted as fair. But what

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Speaker 2: were people saying, like, what were the reasons?

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Speaker 5: It was introduced during the recession, So dor indoor recession,

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Speaker 5: we were both forced and willfully took concessions basically to

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Speaker 5: save the big three legacy auto manufacturers from not ceasing

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Speaker 5: to exist.

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Speaker 4: They were in such a bad financial position that they

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Speaker 4: could have collapsed entirely.

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Speaker 5: So we you know, we understand that the relationships in biotics,

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Speaker 5: so we need them and they need us, so we

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Speaker 5: agreed to the concessions, and that's when tiered wages were introduced.

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Speaker 5: That's one costs of living adjustments were suspended. The pensions

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Speaker 5: were for us all sorts of things, and as an institution,

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Speaker 5: we were under the assumption that, yes, we have to

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Speaker 5: make these concessions now to save our employers.

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Speaker 4: We get that, but over time we.

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Speaker 5: Will build back, you know, over multiple contracts, we'll get

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Speaker 5: back inch by inch.

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Speaker 4: Butok we were given up to get back to a

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Speaker 4: level of what wages and benefits that we.

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Speaker 5: Had had pre recession, and it just turns out that

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Speaker 5: in the fifteen years since then they haven't given us.

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Speaker 5: So it was inevitable that we were going to get

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Speaker 5: to this point.

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Speaker 1: Alex, how corrosive, you know, when you talk to people

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Speaker 1: across the different unions UAW, but also otherwise, how corrosive.

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Speaker 1: And I believe that UPS also had a tiered system.

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Speaker 1: But how corrosive is that in terms of Okay, here's

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Speaker 1: two members of the same union at the same company,

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Speaker 1: very different sort of lifestyle and career trajectories due to this,

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Speaker 1: pay trajectories due to this, and just generally this sort

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Speaker 1: of like I guess, the way Dan described it almost

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Speaker 1: felt like a sort of like union leadership capture, in

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Speaker 1: which the leaders, the past leaders of the union feel

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Speaker 1: like they may have just as much responsibility to the

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Speaker 1: management to the company as the members of the union. Like,

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Speaker 1: how consistent are some of these things across the sort

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Speaker 1: of multiple labor actions we're seeing these days.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think you got to it a

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Speaker 6: little bit in your question about tears as far as

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Speaker 6: the corrosiveness. But it's very easy to imagine, right, like

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Speaker 6: you are on the assembly line, or say, for maybe

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Speaker 6: your listeners, you are at the desk looking at your computer, at.

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Speaker 1: The keyboard line clicking seriously our quotas of clicks.

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Speaker 6: Okay, keep going in, sir, Yes, and your coworkers on

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Speaker 6: either side are doing the same thing, right, assembly line

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Speaker 6: or office job, whatever, but they are making.

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Speaker 3: Double the amount you make, right.

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Speaker 6: I mean it's very hard not only to make sense

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Speaker 6: of that, but also it's very hard to build any

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Speaker 6: kind of trust and organizing relationship with those co workers.

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Speaker 3: Right. It builds this resentment.

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Speaker 6: It really corrodes a union from the inside out, right.

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Speaker 6: I mean Dan was speaking to this that you know,

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Speaker 6: a union needs the rank and file to actually one

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Speaker 6: view the union as something that they can trust and

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Speaker 6: that that is them that they lead, but also something

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Speaker 6: that is going to you know, sort of fight for

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Speaker 6: equal pay, fight against sort of arbitrary boss discrimination. And

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Speaker 6: a lot of workers will tell me, whether it's at UPS,

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Speaker 6: whether it's at the Big Three, whether it's anywhere with

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Speaker 6: a tier that this just feels like unequal pay for

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Speaker 6: equal work, and obviously that has a long history of

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Speaker 6: being unacceptable. Also, it is often then racialized in that

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Speaker 6: the workers who.

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Speaker 3: Are in the earlier, the more.

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Speaker 6: Recently hired tiers with lower pay or often more you know,

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Speaker 6: less white, more women, and so this really creates all

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Speaker 6: kinds of problems within the workplace. And just one little

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Speaker 6: example here is that you know UPS, when the Teamsters,

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Speaker 6: we don't have to go into all the machinations here,

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Speaker 6: but the Teamsters ended up accepting a UPS contract during

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Speaker 6: the last negotiations. That's created a new tier of driver

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Speaker 6: called twenty two fours. That's the name of the clause

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Speaker 6: in the contract that creates them.

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Speaker 2: Is this the ones driving like in their own cars?

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 3: No? No, that's entirely different.

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Speaker 6: Twenty two hours though, were so they had worse benefits,

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Speaker 6: lower pay, you know, they topped out way lower than

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Speaker 6: the permanent driver, the regular tier. And there was a

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Speaker 6: huge uproar when this tenet of agreement came out during

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Speaker 6: the last negotiating cycle and the members in fact voted

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Speaker 6: it down. Numerically, the majority rejected this ups contract last

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Speaker 6: negotiation rounds, but the younger Hoffa, James Hoffa Junior, forced

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Speaker 6: this contract through using a very arcane clause in the

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Speaker 6: Teamsters constitution, one that even you know, when I would

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Speaker 6: speak with very long time kind of militant rank and

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Speaker 6: file like teams to reformers, they hadn't even been aware

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Speaker 6: that this clause existed, and it was about, you know,

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Speaker 6: if you don't have x percentage of the workers voting

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Speaker 6: and voting by why amount, then you can kind of

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Speaker 6: force a contract through.

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Speaker 3: And that's what Haffa did.

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Speaker 6: He forced this contract in, and that is what leads

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Speaker 6: to the next several years where his successor loses to

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Speaker 6: Sean O'Brien who had broken from Haffa's regime during these negotiations,

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Speaker 6: and Sean O'Brien had said, you know, I'm sick of

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Speaker 6: these concessionary contracts. He ends up allying with a number

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Speaker 6: of reformers within the union and he runs to take

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Speaker 6: over the presidency of the team Stars on the on

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Speaker 6: several messages, but one being that he is going to

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Speaker 6: negotiate the strongest ups contract ever and get rid of

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Speaker 6: this tier.

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Speaker 3: And he has done that. That is in the TA,

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Speaker 3: but that.

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Speaker 6: Really becomes the defining kind of story for the Teamsters

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Speaker 6: reform as well.

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Speaker 3: And Dan Jen mentioned it.

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Speaker 6: But his slate when they ran for the UAW and

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Speaker 6: won all of their seats, I believe all seven leadership seats,

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Speaker 6: their slogan was no corruption, no concession, no tears.

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Speaker 4: So I mean it is that is correct.

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Speaker 5: I just going to say if I can, what Alex

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Speaker 5: was talking about about previous union leaders jamming agreements down

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Speaker 5: the thirds of their members. That's not just unique to

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Speaker 5: the Team six. That has been a longstanding issue in

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Speaker 5: a lot of traditional legacy unions is that the top

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Speaker 5: leadership feels like they have the authority to force agreements

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Speaker 5: on the rank and file members. And a huge part

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Speaker 5: of our platform is that we will not do that

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Speaker 5: under any circumstances, because the institutions exist of certain members

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Speaker 5: not perpetuate itself.

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Speaker 2: You know, Joe I worked in a unionized labor force once.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the Financial Times had a very active journalism union,

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Speaker 2: and this discussion reminds me that one time, the union accidentally,

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Speaker 2: I think it was accidentally published everyone's salaries in the

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Speaker 2: news room. It was fun. Yeah, it was anonymized, but

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Speaker 2: it was They divided it by gender and age, and

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Speaker 2: I think they were trying to make a point about

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Speaker 2: how women were sort of systematically underpaid. But you can

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Speaker 2: imagine all hell broke loose. Everyone was upset with literally

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Speaker 2: everyone years. I found out I was one of the

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Speaker 2: two lowest paid women at the FT at that time,

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Speaker 2: So that was fun. But this story does have a point,

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Speaker 2: which is, you know, when you're leading these types of discussions,

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Speaker 2: it seems like you are representing lots of different types

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Speaker 2: of workers, and some of those workers might have a

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Speaker 2: good deal and others might not. And Alex mentioned at

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Speaker 2: the beginning of this conversation that it feels like in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, a lot of workers are coalescing, they're

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Speaker 2: coming together, they're sort of uniting. Obviously, being in a union,

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Speaker 2: how are you getting that kind of consensus when it

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Speaker 2: feels like, you know, some people still have it a

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Speaker 2: lot better than others.

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Speaker 5: So there are certainly some union members, regardless of which

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Speaker 5: sector you work in, that have you know, quote unquote

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Speaker 5: better agreements than other ones or better situations, but it

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Speaker 5: doesn't At this point, it really doesn't matter what secord

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Speaker 5: you work and where you work, even if you have

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Speaker 5: it better than a fellow union member. Say say you

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Speaker 5: represent a Boeing facility. They're wage wise, they make very

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Speaker 5: good wages, they make better wages than General Motors. But

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Speaker 5: as far as like the day to day and securing

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Speaker 5: of work and what does the future look like, there's

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Speaker 5: no security here. So there are issues that are universal regardless,

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Speaker 5: and at this point, particularly since coming out of the

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Speaker 5: the pandemic, whether you're making more of that a General

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Speaker 5: Motors or a ford worker at this point is irrelevant

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Speaker 5: because we're seeing these companies that we've work for across

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Speaker 5: every sector, making record profits, and yet our standard of

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Speaker 5: living is going down, not going up.

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Speaker 4: I have people right.

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Speaker 5: Now coming into my facilities that are working forty hours

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Speaker 5: a week in Big three auto manufacturers and have to

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Speaker 5: get EBT cards to feed their families. But yet Forward

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Speaker 5: and General Motors, it's the lantis want to tell me

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Speaker 5: we're a family, the one team, and it's just bullshit

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Speaker 5: that it is not an equitable situation. Our contracts no

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Speaker 5: longer meet the needs of working families and cannot allow us.

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Speaker 4: To remain in the working middle class.

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Speaker 5: And in the past we've negotiated from a place of

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Speaker 5: trying to preserve jobs.

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Speaker 4: Where we're at now is we are trying.

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Speaker 5: To preserve the American middle class, and we're not asking

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Speaker 5: what we're putting forward our demands.

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Speaker 2: Alex, do you want to take that as well, just

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Speaker 2: because I'm thinking, you know, you brought up that point

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Speaker 2: earlier that it seems like people are able to coal

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Speaker 2: us around issues a bit more like, how are they

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Speaker 2: actually achieving that unity within their own ranks?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I'll give an example that might feel

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Speaker 6: out of left field, but just to illustrate how sort

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Speaker 6: of cross sector, cross industry this moment is. So, I

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Speaker 6: was just in Los Angeles reporting on the SAG AFTERRA

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Speaker 6: and WGA strikes, and you know, I speaking to a

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Speaker 6: lot of people in the picket lines, and you know,

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Speaker 6: much more visibly than any other unionized workforce actors and

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Speaker 6: writers have you know, some of the most successful members

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Speaker 6: that are outliers, right, and then they have the majority

441
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 6: of the membership who are not household names, not people

442
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 6: we would know. You know, Tom Cruise is a member

443
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 6: of sag after it, right, and so talk about like

444
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 6: some members are doing.

445
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 3: Very well while others aren't.

446
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 6: And you know, the Writer's Guild gets around this problem by,

447
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 6: for one, they try to involve the sort of leading members,

448
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 6: the folks who are doing very well in the negotiation process,

449
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 6: you know. And so so I thought of this example

450
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 6: while Dan was talking because one of the people I

451
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 6: spoke to at length is Mike shr who wrote The

452
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 6: Good Place he created you know, the Parks and rec

453
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 6: who was a key writer on the Office. This is

454
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 6: about as successful as a television showrunner as there is

455
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 6: in this country, right. You know, it's rare that a

456
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 6: writer is a household name, but a lot of people

457
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 6: know who Mike Sure is. And you know, when I

458
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 6: was speaking to him on the picket line, I was

459
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 6: asking him, you know, why he had decided to kind

460
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 6: of get involved in the fight. Like he's on the

461
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 6: negotiating committee for the Writer's Guild of America. He is

462
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 6: very actively, you know, present in this strike even though

463
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 6: he's a very successful guy. And you know, he said

464
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 6: that it had been made clear to him that, you know,

465
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 6: the studios, much.

466
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 3: Like Dan said of Big Three.

467
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 6: You know, these are massive corporations that have quite a

468
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 6: bit of money, if not sort of the level of

469
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 6: profit that their investors want, that they aren't sharing it

470
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 6: with the younger members, the people who are far less

471
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 6: successful than Mike. And he told me, I wouldn't have

472
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 6: the career at all that I have now if the

473
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 6: system that exists now were the system that existed when

474
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 6: I started. And he went through the exact kind of process,

475
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 6: which you know, might seem absurd compared to talking about

476
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 6: auto workers, but you know, writers are a production line

477
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 6: like anyone else. And he talked about how when he

478
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 6: started on the Office, the creator, Greg Daniels, had walked

479
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 6: him through how to do the job, how to write

480
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 6: long form television, how to get to know the different

481
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 6: types of work done on set, how to understand rewriting

482
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 6: scripts versus throwing them out, all of these very technical

483
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 6: job details.

484
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 3: Like any other job. And they did that because.

485
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 6: They had the sort of budget and the time and

486
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,479
Speaker 6: the income for that sort of kind of mentorship and

487
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 6: cross generational kind of learning and teaching.

488
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 3: Of the of the work.

489
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 6: And he says, you know now that can't happen with

490
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 6: these younger writers. They aren't brought on set, they are tingent,

491
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,479
Speaker 6: their contracts are shorter issues that when you get down

492
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 6: to the bare bones, sound like I could be talking about.

493
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 3: Auto workers or UPS workers.

494
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 6: And so it's really interesting that, you know, I hear

495
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 6: the you know, when you sort of abstract away the detail.

496
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 6: It is similar fights across every industry. And I actually

497
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 6: remember saying to Mike Sure on the picket line. I

498
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 6: was telling him about this strike in Eerie, Pennsylvania, that

499
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 6: I had been at these wobtech workers or on strike

500
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 6: members of UE, and they were having issues with a

501
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 6: tear and they had these younger workers who were so

502
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 6: broke that similarly to what Dan said, you know, they

503
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 6: can qualify for EVT even though they have you know,

504
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 6: union jobs at a heavy manufacturing plant that is extremely profitable.

505
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 6: And Mike, you know, was laughing on the picket line.

506
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 6: He's like, Wow, it really is the same everywhere, huh.

507
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 3: And so it's.

508
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 6: Really not hard to sort of see these relationships between

509
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 6: these processes. And just like Dan was saying about, you know,

510
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 6: sort of getting how to get buy in for a

511
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 6: reduction of tiers or otherwise kind of fighting back, you know,

512
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 6: these processes at the sort of knitty gritty level, are

513
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 6: getting Mike Sure on the negotiating committee so that you

514
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 6: have him inside the house rather than out. You know,

515
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 6: with these more industrial facilities, it's building up the understanding

516
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 6: that you know, you are fighting for future workers. That

517
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 6: actually abandoning your younger membership just because you happen to

518
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 6: be in the higher paid tier is going to hit

519
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 6: your pension at some point, it's going to destroy your union.

520
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 3: So on and so forth. And also it's morally wrong.

521
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: So but that is the nitty gritty of organizing, for sure.

522
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 5: If I can, just if I can jump off of that,

523
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 5: please for one thing, Please what Alex mentioned about Greg Daniels,

524
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 5: bringan and younger writer and teach him about how to

525
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 5: do the job and stuff. Another thing that we're seeing

526
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 5: in the manufacturing sector and with the auto manufacturers and

527
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 5: manufacturers in general don't like to talk about, is that

528
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 5: as union laborers, we are painting a lot. We always

529
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 5: want more and more and more. We don't care about

530
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 5: the into the companies. We only care about more stuff

531
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 5: for ourselves.

532
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 4: That couldn't be further from the truth.

533
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 5: Our more senior workers are concerned at this point because

534
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 5: by the time we get these new people coming in

535
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 5: the door, trained up to be proficient at the jobs.

536
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 5: They're leaving to go work at Dollar General because they

537
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 5: can make more money. They're leaving to go work at

538
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 5: Walmart because they can make more money, and air conditioning,

539
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,239
Speaker 5: which not as physically demanding on your body. And so

540
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 5: they paint us as these like you know, leftist laborers

541
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 5: that just want more money. But we do care about

542
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 5: these manufacturing institutions. We do take pride in building vehicles

543
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 5: in this country. We don't want to lose all the

544
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 5: people we're training up to go work.

545
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: In retail jobs. But you set the wages.

546
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 5: And if you say you care about the companies that

547
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 5: management tells us all the time we're a family, and

548
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 5: that care about these institutions, then you need to listen

549
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 5: to what your good faith partners are saying, which is,

550
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 5: we are not going to remain viable manufacturers if we

551
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 5: don't have a workforce that can do the work because

552
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 5: you pay them less than Dollar General with us.

553
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: So I mean you sort of anticipated my next question.

554
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: So I tried to read the twenty nineteen UAWGM agreement.

555
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: I think I found the file was like seven hundred

556
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: and fifty pages. I have to admit I didn't like

557
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: read the whole thing in detail. I tried to skimmit,

558
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: but sort of top line, beyond all that stuff, ripping

559
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: beyond the tiered workforce, Dan, what do you sort of

560
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: talk to us just about, like, what are the big priorities?

561
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: I mean, we're you know, just a little over I guess,

562
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: just a little over a month until the current contract expires.

563
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: What are the sort of like big priorities that you

564
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: and your union hope to achieve in these negotiations?

565
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 4: Well, and what we hope to achieve.

566
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 5: The President's office laid out pretty clear and they just

567
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 5: put out a list of membership demands I believe yesterday.

568
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 5: We want to obviously end the tiered wages within our facilities,

569
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 5: and not just the tiered wages that are in the

570
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 5: contract book. We have multiple different facilities within the families

571
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 5: these companies. We have General Motors Components holding companies which

572
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 5: make end fifteen to twenty dollars less an hour because

573
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 5: they make parts instead of producing main engines or.

574
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 4: Body body parts.

575
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 5: We have multiple tiered wages throughout the entirety of the

576
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 5: Big Three and it's all broken up. So we want

577
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 5: the tiered wages to end. We also want the cost

578
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 5: of living adjustments to be unsuspended, because they didn't get

579
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 5: rid of cost of living adjustments during.

580
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 4: The recession, they suspended them.

581
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 5: We want to reinstate the cost of living adjustments in

582
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 5: our contracts because our wages are not matching inflation, and

583
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 5: these companies are not in a financially precarious situation. They

584
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 5: are making and posting record profits. Forward just recently posted

585
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 5: their net income for the second quarter as one point

586
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 5: nine billion dollars. General Motors adjusted earnings for the second

587
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 5: quarter was three point two billion dollars, and Stilantis, which

588
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 5: reports their profits every six months, report in the first

589
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 5: half of the year twelve point one billion dollars in

590
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 5: profits of thirty seven percent increase over the last year.

591
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 5: So we feel like these companies are very capable of

592
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 5: reinstating cost of living adjustments. We also want to see

593
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 5: increases into our retire pensions because they haven't seen increases

594
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 5: in almost twelve fifteen years. And again, we don't feel

595
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 5: that anything that we're asking for is outrageous. We're not

596
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 5: asking for these companies to turn us into the millionaires overnight.

597
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 5: We're just asking them to pay equitable wages that allow

598
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 5: us to live stable lives. I mean stilant is just

599
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 5: at the opening of negotiations just recently, the chief negotiator

600
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 5: had the audacity to say that the younger generation lights

601
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 5: the flexibility of having a side house. I can't believe

602
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 5: those words came out of his fucking mouth. The fact

603
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 5: that we had people working forty fifty sixty hours a

604
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 5: week and yet oh no, they like the flexibility. You're

605
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 5: having to drive uber too, just so they can pay

606
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 5: their bills. It was a slap in the face and

607
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 5: just shows how all disassociated they are with their general workforce.

608
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 5: And if they think that we're all one happy family,

609
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 5: I don't know what universe.

610
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: They live in it, Dan, can I ask you about

611
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: the ev concerns specifically, and this is something we alluded

612
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: to in the intro. There does seem to be a

613
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: controversy brewing over what type of labor is needed or

614
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: desired to produce electric vehicles versus traditional cars. Can you

615
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: walk us through that issue how you see it?

616
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 5: Sure, so we're not naive transitioning to electric vehicles is

617
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 5: going to be absolutely necessary.

618
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 4: But I mean, the climate is warming.

619
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 5: Our members run a huge range of political positions.

620
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 4: But whether we like it or not, the transitions have Yeah.

621
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: I read that the UAW was instrumental in the first

622
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: ever Earth Day, which I did not know.

623
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we firmly believe that there does need to

624
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 5: be a transition to electric vehicles. We're concerned about is

625
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 5: that that transition is going to be a continuation of

626
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 5: just this endless race to the bottom of wages, so

627
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 5: it's going to require less jobs. We know that what

628
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 5: we want to see is that these battery parts and

629
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 5: as we transition into electric vehicle manufacturing and stuff, that

630
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 5: these jobs fall under UAW Master agreements, which gives us

631
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 5: job security, which allows our more senior members if they

632
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 5: so desire, to transfer into these jobs, and that the

633
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 5: wages mirror the wages that we make in the internal

634
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 5: combustion engine. It's manufacturing. Where we have concerns is that

635
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 5: there is massive investment going into these facilities, tax payer

636
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 5: dollars and investment on behalf of the I mean, the

637
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 5: Energy Department just loan nine point tis billion dollars to

638
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 5: forward to build battery plants in the South and write

639
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 5: the work states, and the Biden administration didn't require any

640
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 5: sort of guarantees of those jobs being do a w

641
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 5: jobs or being any union jobs at all. They basically

642
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 5: just said, hey, forward, please be please be nice to

643
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 5: these workers and let them have a vote if you

644
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 5: feel like it.

645
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 4: And so we don't find that acceptable. So we're willing

646
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 4: and ready to work with.

647
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 5: These companies to assist in the transition to an electric

648
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 5: future as long as there is equity in those jobs

649
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 5: and they allow us wages that can we can maintain

650
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 5: middle class lifestyles.

651
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 4: I don't feel like anything about that is is a huge.

652
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 1: Ask, Alex. Do you perceive that organized labor is sort

653
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: of trying to think how to phrase this question, but

654
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: get squeezed within sort of progressive priorities. It's like, oh,

655
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: you know, it's want to have like a robust economy.

656
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: Things are good for workers because unemployment rate is below

657
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: or percent and climate change is really important. So we

658
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,919
Speaker 1: really need to make sure that we accelerate the sort

659
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: of electrification of vehicles, et cetera. And that pressure, whether

660
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: it's at the UAW or elsewhere, gets put on organized

661
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: labor to sort of, I guess play ball in a

662
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: nice way with other liberal or progressive priorities.

663
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think there's a long history of that,

664
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 6: particularly around environmental concerns, you know, and it's really unfortunate because,

665
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 6: you know, as Tracy mentioned, the sort of funny fact

666
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 6: that the.

667
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 3: UAW was involved in the first Earth Day.

668
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 6: I mean, a lot of workers care about the environment, right,

669
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 6: and it is very unfortunate that they're sort of pitted

670
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 6: against one another in this way. I mean, in the

671
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 6: case of what's going on right now with the UAW

672
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 6: and the EV plants and the Biden Administration's various the economics,

673
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 6: the bidenomics that either have strings attached or don't in

674
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 6: the case of certain of these ev plants. You know,

675
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 6: I think there's a lot of pressure on the UAW

676
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 6: to not be seen as someone who is holding up

677
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 6: you know, climate transition of policies, you know, the that

678
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 6: the environmental movement has been sort of advocating for a

679
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 6: long time. There's this sense that, oh, they are just

680
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 6: one constituency, but they're a small one compared to you know,

681
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 6: the entire country which needs you know, these this transition

682
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 6: to evs. But that's really not how to think of it, right,

683
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 6: I mean, these these workers, you know, I've always said

684
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 6: that if you want a just transition and a green

685
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 6: new deal. They're going to be the key people that

686
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 6: you actually need to shift over there, because they're the

687
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 6: ones who are going to be building the machinery. I

688
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 6: mean often they end up being the ones that are

689
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 6: on the front lines with whistleblowing about polluting vehicles or

690
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 6: otherwise sort of you know, environmental concerns. I mentioned the

691
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 6: eerie plant that I was at recently. Those workers want

692
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 6: to build green locomotives. They know the technology is there.

693
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 6: They're the people along the assemble line are sick of

694
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,479
Speaker 6: breathing in the pollution from polluting locomotives. They're the ones

695
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 6: that kind of have the leverage and the knowledge to

696
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 6: talk about how to transition. But when labor is sort

697
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 6: of treated in this way as like, oh, they're sort

698
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 6: of junior partners to the environmental movement or sort of

699
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 6: people who don't really understand the bigger kind of scientific

700
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 6: necessities of this transition, I think you're going to find

701
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 6: exactly what you're finding here, which is that these are

702
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 6: working class people who are not going to put up

703
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,959
Speaker 6: with the sort of reduction in for their wages which

704
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 6: these companies are very much using. The ev transition to

705
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 6: achieve and you're never it's never going to be a

706
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 6: realistic transition. I mean, because when we talk about power

707
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 6: for the left, it is institutions like the one Dan

708
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 6: is in the leadership of who actually have the kind

709
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 6: of organizational capacity to push for their demands and get

710
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 6: things done. And I think a lot of people in

711
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 6: the climate movement might be surprised to see what that

712
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 6: looks like come September. To me, I think it's really

713
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 6: tragic that it kind of putet gets set up in

714
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 6: this way that people might look at the uaw's you know,

715
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 6: for example, it's hesitation to endorse Biden and say that

716
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 6: they're being you know, sort of unrealistic or difficult, or

717
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 6: does that mean they're endorsing someone on the right.

718
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 3: They're just looking out for working class people.

719
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 6: And I think if anyone is going to push for

720
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 6: a stronger kind of attachment to any of Biden, Biden's

721
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 6: sort of you know, whether it's the IRA or any

722
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 6: other programs that are loaning you know, almost unlimited capital

723
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 6: in the form of tax credits to these people building

724
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 6: these plants, we want someone like the UAW to put

725
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 6: that pressure on.

726
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 3: How else will we get stronger packages. So that's my

727
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 3: view on these things.

728
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 4: I couldn't agree more and about what Alex just said.

729
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 5: You know, my membership are the vast majority of us

730
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 5: are not hartisan ideals.

731
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 4: What we absolutely are.

732
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 5: Tired of, though, is a politicians paying of simply lip service.

733
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 5: I am tired to death of hearing how the Biden

734
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 5: administration is the most pro labor, most.

735
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 4: Best friend is my best friend. I'm tired of hearing

736
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 4: it because when you give out billions of dollars of

737
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 4: taxpayer investments with no guarantees of those jobs falling under

738
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 4: our master agreements, which would make.

739
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 5: Those all our jobs, that doesn't feel like you're my friend,

740
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 5: but it doesn't make me feel like you're my buddy

741
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 5: jail okay. And so we have not endorsed the president yet,

742
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 5: and I think I think that's the best move that

743
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 5: our international president, Sean Faine could make. I am willing

744
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 5: to talk to anyone running. I want to talk to

745
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 5: Cornell West, I want to talk to Chris Christy. I'll

746
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 5: talk to anyone who has my back because right now,

747
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 5: our union, our institution, is feeling like the traditional Democratic

748
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 5: Party doesn't necessarily.

749
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 4: Have our back and We're not dumb. Like I get a.

750
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 5: Feeling sometimes that these politicians think like we are uneducated

751
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 5: and we're just we're not the most intelligent people. We

752
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 5: understand it's election here. We understand it's going to come

753
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 5: down to Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia. We understand that. And if

754
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 5: you think we're just going to co sign and just

755
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 5: rubber stamp checks and rubber stamp endorsements, you are highly mistaken.

756
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 5: We need guarantees that the transition into the electric people

757
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 5: future is going to secure our members right to the

758
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 5: American middle class. And if you're not willing to assist

759
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 5: us in that, I guarantee you there are other people

760
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 5: that will.

761
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 2: I just have one more question, which is, you know,

762
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: if the Biden administration says they want evs to be

763
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: a thing that are produced in the United States, and

764
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 2: if car makers want to be competitive on this new technology,

765
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 2: if they say, you know what, we're competing against other

766
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: manufacturers in Mexico or in China, and so we need

767
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,479
Speaker 2: to cut costs, we need to be competitive. Like, how

768
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: do they achieve that while working with the union. What's

769
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: the optimal outcome here from your perspective? And do you

770
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: see evidence that some of the car companies are sort

771
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 2: of I guess, playing the worker off against each other

772
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: and different jurisdictions.

773
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I do.

774
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 5: I have Ford manufacturers from the subcontinent of India reaching

775
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 5: out to me through social media.

776
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 4: They're under attack by Ford in those countries.

777
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 5: These companies are constantly telling us, oh, well, we have

778
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 5: to remain viable options for manufacturing.

779
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 4: We have to remain flexible in the marketplace. As I said.

780
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 5: Earlier, the massive record breaking profits that you are recording

781
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 5: primarily made in the North American plants. Mind you, we're

782
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 5: not saying that you have to hurt your investors. We're

783
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 5: not saying that you you can't still return a profit.

784
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 5: We're saying that you have to share the wealth. I

785
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 5: would like to point out that Jim Farley, the CEO

786
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 5: of Ford for last year in twenty two made twenty million,

787
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 5: nine hundred and ninety six one hundred and forty six dollars.

788
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 4: Okay, but where the problem.

789
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 5: Mary Barra, the CEO of General Motors, need twenty nine

790
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 5: million dollars in twenty twenty one. But yet our wages

791
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 5: and healthcare is what's holding the companies back. And mister

792
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 5: Carlos Tavares, the freeman himself made a freaking twenty four

793
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 5: point eight million dollars in twenty twenty two. Yet we

794
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 5: the workforce need to remain flexible and viable. We're just

795
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 5: not going to We're not going to continue to listen

796
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 5: to this narrative that, oh, well, we have to compete

797
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 5: in these unfair marketplaces and stuff. Then lobby are politicians

798
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 5: to have stronger laws that don't allow these foreign companies

799
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 5: to undercutry.

800
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 4: It's not going to be on the backs of our employees.

801
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 3: I just want to I just want to underline that.

802
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 6: I mean those numbers that DAN was thrown out about

803
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 6: the CEO pay. You know, just to be clear here

804
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 6: as far as viability and how these the Big three

805
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 6: and their and their partners in these joint ventures are

806
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 6: paying dan's members. You know, there's one joint there's one

807
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 6: battery plant that opened in Warren, Ohio, between G and

808
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 6: a Korean battery maker LG. You know, they voted to

809
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 6: join the UAW almost unanimously in December of last year.

810
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 6: So the as far as I know, the union hasn't

811
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 6: negotiated a first contract, but the workers there had starting

812
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 6: pay of sixteen dollars and fifty cents, and they top

813
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 6: out to twenty an hour after seven years. I mean

814
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 6: again with the inflation, we have seven years and then

815
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 6: you'll get twenty an hour. So I just want to

816
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 6: explain here underline with that example, just how bad these

817
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 6: jobs are, right, I mean, it is not realistic to

818
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 6: expect an institution like the UAW looking out for its members,

819
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 6: people like Dan to say that this is okay as

820
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 6: kind of a means of undercutting the very hard won

821
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 6: standards that the UAW got in Auto which set the

822
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 6: standards set the pace for the you know, manufacturing jobs

823
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 6: across the United States.

824
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 3: When you know, in the last century.

825
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 6: They see this as you know, the transition is a

826
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 6: great way for these companies to undo with the standards.

827
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 3: And I think it's hard to argue with that.

828
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: Dan, real quick, what's whipsawing? And I know this has

829
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,959
Speaker 1: existed before some of the EV tension, but talk about

830
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 1: that and talk about this, you know, as it relates

831
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: to sort of playing workers off of each other.

832
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 5: Sure, so, whipsawing is a term that we use in

833
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 5: manufacturing in which companies and conglomerates they force local unions

834
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 5: or manufacturing plants to basically undercut em bargain against other

835
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 5: manufacturing plants throughout the United States for investments. Right, So

836
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 5: if General Motors is putting in a new generation engine,

837
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 5: they'll go to the different engine plants and say to one, hey,

838
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 5: the plant down and I don't know South Carolina.

839
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 4: Is willing to give us this in wages. What are

840
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 4: you willing to give us?

841
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 5: If you're not willing to give us a better deal,

842
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 5: then that investment work is going to go down to

843
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 5: South Carolina and not into New York State.

844
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 4: So they pit us against one another to battle for investments.

845
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 5: They do that from state to state, but they also

846
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 5: do that across international boundaries. They try to get us

847
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 5: the battle our Canadian counterparts and uniform and the auto

848
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 5: manufacturer at plants in Canada and against the Canadian or

849
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 5: excuse me, the Mexican auto workers unions. They try to

850
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 5: bank us battle each other for a race to the

851
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 5: bottom onto the lowest wages and worst benefits.

852
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 4: It's going on forever.

853
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: Dan and Alex, thank you so much. I really appreciate

854
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: both your perspective. I learned a lot very helpful context

855
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: in this sort of final month or so of negotiations perhaps,

856
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: so appreciate both of you taking the time and coming

857
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: on Oddlin.

858
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having us.

859
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having us us.

860
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 1: Yeah that was great, Thank you so much.

861
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah that was really interesting.

862
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, Tracy. I really enjoyed that conversation. I

863
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: mean there's a lot there obviously, and I just feel

864
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: like it's not a perfect story, but there are many

865
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 1: things happening at once, so that make this a really

866
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: interesting sort of lens and thing to pay attention to it.

867
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 2: Guess, yeah, absolutely, I kind of I just want to

868
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 2: do an episode on union politics. I find them so

869
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 2: interesting and I really I would love to be a

870
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: fly on the wall of presumably the room when the

871
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 2: union comes up with like a list of not demands

872
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 2: but asks, and like why they want certain things versus

873
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 2: other things, And is there a whole bunch of like

874
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: game theory involved. Do you shoot high and expect to

875
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: negotiate down a little bit or do you, you know,

876
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 2: hold the line against the big three. There's so many

877
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 2: different angles to pick out, also lots of new terminology

878
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 2: like whipsaw.

879
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like that was a totally new one

880
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: for me. I did not realize the degree to which

881
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: plants were sort of played off of each other in

882
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: that way is really interesting. I also thought some of

883
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: Dan's points were really interesting about labor retention, and especially

884
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: like the last three years, particularly which a bunch of

885
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: companies suddenly woke up to the fact that an endless

886
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: stream of workers is not a guaranteed like birthright a

887
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: venue company. Right, Like, suddenly companies realized they had to

888
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: fight for labor, and that, you know, without this sort

889
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: of like strong continuity, that there's this danger of like, Okay, well,

890
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: why not just go work in a Walmart or a

891
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: Dollar General and maybe get paid close to the same amount,

892
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: except it's not backbreaking work and at least the facilities

893
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: are more air conditioned.

894
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 5: Right.

895
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 2: I am surprised that wages for new workers in car

896
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 2: manufacturing haven't gone up more. And I mean, you've sort

897
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 2: of seen the opposite and a lot of other industries

898
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: where the new workers have been able to negotiate much

899
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,720
Speaker 2: more attractive salaries and contracts than some of the older

900
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 2: workers who have been there for ten or twenty years.

901
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 2: But in cars it seems to be the complete opposite.

902
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

903
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: No, I mean I remember that the UAW was basically

904
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 1: forced to take these concessions in two thousand and nine

905
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: because they're like, look, these companies are not going to

906
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: exist in months if you don't like you structure the contract.

907
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,320
Speaker 1: But to hear about how like still, you know, fifteen

908
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: years or fourteen years later, they're still dealing trying to

909
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: get some of these things undone from that period I

910
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: thought was really interesting.

911
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, all right, negotiations are coming up now, is yes,

912
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: it will be really interesting to see what happens.

913
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 4: Yeah.

914
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: I feel this was very helpful and now maybe I'll

915
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: actually understand what I read over the course of the

916
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: coming month or so A.

917
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: Right, shall we leave it there.

918
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 1: Let's leave it there.

919
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 2: This has been another episode of the Authoughts podcast. I'm

920
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 2: Tracy Alloway. You can follow me on Twitter at Tracy Alloway.

921
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 1: And I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can follow me on Twitter

922
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: at the Stalwart. Follow our guests on Twitter. Alex Press

923
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: She's at alex and Press. Dan I don't think is

924
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: on Twitter, but UAW Region nine is on Twitter at

925
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 1: UAW Region nine. Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen

926
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 1: Arman and Dashel Bennett at Dashbot, and check out all

927
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: of the Bloomberg podcasts under the handle at podcasts. For

928
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: more odd Lots content, go to Bloomberg dot com slash

929
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: odd Lots, where we have a blog, transcript and the newsletter,

930
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: and check out the discord discord dot gg slash odd logs.

931
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,479
Speaker 1: There's a transportation room in there where I'm sure people

932
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: will be discussing this episode. Lots of card talking.

933
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 2: And if you enjoy listening to odd Lots, please leave

934
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 2: us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks

935
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: for listening.