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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much for

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Speaker 1: tuning in. Let's hear it four our super producer Max

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Speaker 1: the ref Williams.

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Speaker 2: The Incorrigible.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so, I absolutely, with all passions, hate threads and

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Speaker 3: umpires like I'm waiting for technology to make them like irrelevant.

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Speaker 4: Right, Well, what's the one where you're like underwear snitcher? No,

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Speaker 4: that's picture. But there there are various rhymy kind of

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Speaker 4: ways of maligning the Uh.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I hate themselves. It seems like a danger. But

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Speaker 2: do you not acknowledge if their their net?

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Speaker 3: I mean I'm waiting for the purpose I mean, I

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Speaker 3: I baseball and parts of the worst ones. They their

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Speaker 3: purpose they believe is for everyone to watch them, don't.

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Speaker 5: I mean, look, we're the star of the show.

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Speaker 3: No one else take away from us, watch us, which

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Speaker 3: they're just you know they take away from the game.

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Speaker 2: Did they're an officiants? Did did something happen?

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Speaker 3: I as brian O Nora who finds note listens. Brian

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Speaker 3: O Nora is currently under investigation for soliciting a prostitute

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Speaker 3: as and he got caught by the FBI for in

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Speaker 3: a sting.

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Speaker 2: From sex worker if you will.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's saying what the FBI said, Cleveland, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, before you introduce those guys, I said the

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Speaker 1: P word. Before you introduce those guys, let us introduce ourselves.

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Speaker 2: Did this is? This is part two of what is

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Speaker 2: becoming an increasingly.

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Speaker 1: Spicy series, very spicy history of basketball.

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Speaker 2: A lot of hot takes and tangents.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's a good one. Yeah really, really, I'm serious.

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Speaker 4: You know, I'm the first to admit that I am

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Speaker 4: not a big sports guy, but I always have always

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Speaker 4: found basketball to be the most enjoyable and watchable of

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Speaker 4: all of the sports.

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Speaker 2: And the history of.

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Speaker 4: It is just as enjoyable and listenable, you know. And

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Speaker 4: I think you guys are going to enjoy this part

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Speaker 4: too a lot. So, as as we know, basketball became

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Speaker 4: kind of a big deal, and it happened relatively quickly.

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Speaker 4: I believe the first public game was played in a

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Speaker 4: YMCA gym and was recorded or reported on by the

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Speaker 4: Springfield Republican, and that was on March twelfth of eighteen

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Speaker 4: ninety two. We had around two hundred folks show up

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Speaker 4: to watch the game. Despite having never heard of it

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Speaker 4: before and not having previously existed. When that don't we

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Speaker 4: don't have enough of that, man, we don't have like

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Speaker 4: a new sport like ooh, you guys, hear about the

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Speaker 4: new sport.

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Speaker 2: That'd be cool.

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Speaker 4: I might, I might get in on that, you know,

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Speaker 4: like rollerball or you know, like the running man.

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Speaker 2: That'd be cool. I yeah, I love.

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Speaker 1: I love the idea of new sports being invented. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of quirky ones.

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Speaker 2: Is big.

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Speaker 4: It's not new, but it's it's it's achieved insane popularity

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Speaker 4: in the last handful of years. But I think it

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Speaker 4: is sort of a new ish game. It's it's styled

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Speaker 4: on kind of. It's like a full court version of

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Speaker 4: ping pong, isn't it kind of?

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Speaker 2: You could go in the other direction.

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Speaker 1: You could say that pickleball is to tennis what putt

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Speaker 1: putt is to golf, you know. And I say that

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Speaker 1: because a good friend of mine who actually listens to

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Speaker 1: stuff they want you to know, is a a retired

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Speaker 1: marine who is now a tennis coach.

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Speaker 2: He's the coolest dude.

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Speaker 1: I met him just because we hang out the local

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Speaker 1: pizza place and he's got some hot takes. You dig him,

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Speaker 1: but he he hit me up a few weeks of gosh,

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Speaker 1: a few months ago actually, because he teaches tennis and

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Speaker 1: he's furious about the rise of pickleball, and it will

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Speaker 1: hit me up and we'll say steel my thunder Man.

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Speaker 1: He's like Ben Well because he teaches pickleball too, and

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Speaker 1: he's like, these people have no respect for the game.

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Speaker 1: It's just a bunch of pickleballers out here. And I'm like, wow, you,

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Speaker 1: thank you.

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Speaker 4: Did you hear that pickleball's become so popular, but that

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Speaker 4: it's a lot of these dead malls that they are,

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Speaker 4: like big box stores are being converted into pickleball arenas.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's solving a problem, I guess, because what

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Speaker 4: else are they going to do with those things?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're also uh, there are a lot of parody

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Speaker 1: songs about it. MPR did a great piece on it

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Speaker 1: where they talked about pickleball parody songs.

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Speaker 4: There is There was like a limited run maybe it

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Speaker 4: was a YouTube series with starring Paul Sheer and his

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Speaker 4: wife June Diane Raphael that was like a lot of

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Speaker 4: those like Lonely Island kind of adjacent La comedian folks

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Speaker 4: or what was it human giant some of those guys. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: there's like a you know, sort of like a basketball

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Speaker 4: kind of pickleball kind of send up. But yeah, I

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Speaker 4: mean basketball really took off pretty quickly, like, you know,

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Speaker 4: just within a couple of weeks after this original game.

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Speaker 4: The positives of it were immediately clocked by those in

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Speaker 4: the field of I guess physical education. You know, they

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Speaker 4: acknowledged that folks that play and that were good at

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Speaker 4: it had to have, you know, certain agility and sportsmanship

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Speaker 4: and hand eye coordination and stuff. It kind of combined

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Speaker 4: some things that existed in other popular sports, but it

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Speaker 4: was inherently a little bit less brutish, you know, right.

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Speaker 1: There was this emphasis on agility, on teamwork, on nimbleness,

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Speaker 1: as he said, and students who went to other schools

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Speaker 1: would go to their own YMCAs and say, hey, we

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Speaker 1: got to start playing this, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Rugby and face slap is for the birds. Face lap

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Speaker 1: was a very popular game at the time. Jeez, oh

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Speaker 1: my god.

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Speaker 4: Shout out to I think someone that you know as well,

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Speaker 4: Gabby Watts, who's a local musician and comedian and just

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Speaker 4: launched a podcast that I think ridiculous historians would be

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Speaker 4: a fan of It's called American filth, and it's all

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Speaker 4: about it's like a history podcast, but it's very X rated.

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Speaker 2: It's like and she recently did an episode.

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Speaker 4: On a little known American sport called Rough and Tumble,

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Speaker 4: which in where it which is basically fight club. It

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Speaker 4: involved like eye gouging and things like that. Basically it's

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Speaker 4: like a fight to the death. But it was very

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Speaker 4: popular at a time in the probably the early eighteen hundred's.

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Speaker 2: Face slap was exactly what it sounds like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I may or may not have made that up,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, there's a lot of there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of weird sports out there. And I got to say

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Speaker 1: basketball inspires a lot of very specific versions of basketball.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got people who are differently able playing basketball.

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Speaker 2: You've got that's true. Yeah, and then you've.

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Speaker 1: Also got basketball where people just put their own weird

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Speaker 1: rules in.

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Speaker 2: Of course, well, and you can do one on one,

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Speaker 2: you can do smaller tea.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's a lot like since you know, obviously

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Speaker 4: there are positions and stuff.

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Speaker 2: But it's pretty nimble.

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Speaker 4: Again, like I was saying earlier, not only do you

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Speaker 4: have to be physically pretty nimble to like maneuver around

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Speaker 4: the is malleable, you know what I mean? Like there

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Speaker 4: there are different ways of being and I don't think

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Speaker 4: we mentioned this with that first game that was reported

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Speaker 4: on in eighteen ninety two was between students and the

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Speaker 4: teachers at that particular Ymcagim and I believe the students

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Speaker 4: won five to one, much more interesting score than what's

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Speaker 4: reported for that first ever basketball game one to nothing.

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Speaker 2: But still, gosh, it seems like the teachers just got trounced.

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Speaker 4: And the article in the Springfield Republican credited the teachers

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Speaker 4: with having agility, but the students having science.

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Speaker 2: Ye that they were younger.

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Speaker 4: I guess their physical prowess is what led them to win.

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Speaker 1: I think it meant more that they had a better

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Speaker 1: understanding of the game. Okay, so they knew when to

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Speaker 1: pass to whom right and how to position players and stuff,

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Speaker 1: just because they have played more often than the teachers

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Speaker 1: who were at best watching the game.

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Speaker 2: So we still don't.

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Speaker 1: Know when exactly the first intercollegiate basketball game occurred. We

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Speaker 1: know that high schools began introducing it in the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds. By nineteen oh five, basketball was officially recognized

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Speaker 1: as the go to winter sport, and in eighteen ninety three,

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Speaker 1: two college newspaper articles published separate recordings of different college

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Speaker 1: basketball teams go into court with each other. So we

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Speaker 1: don't know exactly who was first, but we know that

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Speaker 1: it's set one heck of a precedent.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, we haven't really heard much of did

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Speaker 4: Nay Smith, like patent this did he is this intellectual

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Speaker 4: property that's protected when you invent a game. He wrote

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Speaker 4: down the rules, he pinned them to the wall. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you know, technically you can claim a copyright just by

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Speaker 4: committeed something to any media. You know, you can say

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Speaker 4: I wrote the song because I wrote it down first

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Speaker 4: or whatever.

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Speaker 2: But even if you don't file.

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Speaker 4: But I'm just wondering, like, did he become a rich

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Speaker 4: man off of this in his lifetime.

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Speaker 1: Or you know, if that's a good question here. He

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Speaker 1: definitely in the public mind. He definitely was the father

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Speaker 1: of basketball, and anytime somebody brought it up, they brought

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Speaker 1: him up. But I don't know if it's like a

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Speaker 1: Nike swoosh situation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's also sort of like whoever was the

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Speaker 4: first that quote invented the fidget?

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Speaker 2: Spinner.

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Speaker 4: We don't know who that person is because either they

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Speaker 4: didn't patent it or it was ununique enough that it

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Speaker 4: could be done a bunch of different ways. And I

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Speaker 4: think that's probably true of a game. You can't really

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Speaker 4: say you can't play my game unless you pay me.

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Speaker 4: That's not really how games work. Yeah, it's just the

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Speaker 4: way you would have to approach that. As you could say,

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Speaker 4: you can't televise my game without getting cut, or you

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Speaker 4: can't hold a thing where people pay to watch you

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Speaker 4: play it, but you can't stop people from throwing a

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Speaker 4: ball around.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 4: I just don't get the sense that Nace Smith had

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Speaker 4: any quote unquote ownership over basketball, like as a trademark er,

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Speaker 4: as like a concept, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I think he was. I think he was kind of

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Speaker 2: driven by the mission. He just wanted to give it

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Speaker 2: to the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he felt really interested in spreading it.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen ninety eight, he becomes the first official men's

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Speaker 1: basketball coach at the University of Kansas. He is also,

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Speaker 1: at this point the only coach in the program's history

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Speaker 1: to have a losing record, and while he is while

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Speaker 1: he is coaching these college students, he watches his original

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Speaker 1: thirteen rules evolve. Eventually they do cut the bottoms out

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Speaker 1: of the peach baskets and transform them to hoops, and

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Speaker 1: free throws eventually become part of the game. Nineteen oh one,

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Speaker 1: dribbling is introduced, and that meant that now you can

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Speaker 1: run with the ball, you just have to bounce it.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, Nay Smith originally said, look, the

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Speaker 1: size of your basketball team can be anywhere from three

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Speaker 1: to get this forty players. And then they said, nah,

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Speaker 1: it's crazy, man, We're gonna do five people on each squad.

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Speaker 1: And that makes a lot more sense. The sports spreads everywhere,

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Speaker 1: it goes viral, as they would say, these days, you

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Speaker 1: see professional leagues forming across the country, basketball fans or

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Speaker 1: cheering on their hometown teams, so.

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Speaker 2: The game starts spreading like wildfire.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, man, that conversation about the whole ownership of

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Speaker 4: the sport really intrigues me because obviously, once you start

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Speaker 4: getting into professional leagues, that's when there's money to be

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Speaker 4: made and like endorsements to be had and all that stuff.

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Speaker 4: And I was just doing a kind of a cursory

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Speaker 4: Google and it doesn't seem like Nay Smith.

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Speaker 2: Like cleaned up, like no money in his life.

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Speaker 4: He didn't become a coach in Kansas later to hilarious effect,

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Speaker 4: which we'll get to when the time is right.

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Speaker 2: But this is it.

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Speaker 4: This is when you know basketball really comes into its own,

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Speaker 4: and you know, we're on the beginning the very end

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Speaker 4: of the eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, we start to

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Speaker 4: see the formations of leagues in the US. Like the

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Speaker 4: first one is the National Basketball League, which is you know,

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Speaker 4: I guess a precursor to the NBA in some ways.

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Speaker 1: There were a couple of different leagues. We don't have

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Speaker 1: to get two two in the leads, but just the

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Speaker 1: high level stuff. The first professional league was the NBL

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Speaker 1: National Basketball League that was six teams up in the Northeast,

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Speaker 1: and that league only lasted about five years. It dissolved

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Speaker 1: in nineteen oh four, and then three decades passed until

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty seven and a new league occurred. And this

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Speaker 1: league had corporate support. They had Goodyear, fire Stone and

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Speaker 1: General Electric footing the bills.

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Speaker 4: And it's really interesting the National Geographic article that we

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Speaker 4: source for this, which is behind a paywell, I'm having

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Speaker 4: a hard time loading it up to get the writer

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Speaker 4: credit where credit is due. But if you if you

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Speaker 4: have a subscription type in basketball, it's like the title

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Speaker 4: is something like from peach baskets to something that is

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Speaker 4: now below a black square. But they describe it as

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Speaker 4: the corporations owning the teams like it, like it's bigger

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Speaker 4: than just they're sponsored by These are like corporately held leagues,

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Speaker 4: which I think is very interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a new evolution for sure. And

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Speaker 1: the game continued to involve because as it became more popular,

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Speaker 1: more and more people were paying attention to it, and

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Speaker 1: they were pointing out things that they thought could improve

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Speaker 1: the rules. So not all of Naysmith's ideas were winners.

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Speaker 1: This is what we this is what we talked about.

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Speaker 1: Some of some of this stuff in his head was weird.

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Speaker 1: One of the rules was when the ball goes out

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Speaker 1: of bounds, it's thrown into field by the first person

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Speaker 1: touching it. Does that mean that you just die like

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Speaker 1: ten dudes running for this ball.

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Speaker 4: It also goes against kind of the spirit of the

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Speaker 4: whole non contact sport thing. I just picture like a

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Speaker 4: cartoon where it's just a dog pile of everyone just

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Speaker 4: jumping on the thing and piling on top of each

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Speaker 4: other and like a you know, swirling like dirt, kind

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Speaker 4: of dust. And then you see a player crawl out

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Speaker 4: of the melee and get dragged back in by their leg. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's not a winner, as let's see. Eric Zimmerman, who

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Speaker 4: is a professor of game design and game theory, notes

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Speaker 4: He also noted that it was unclear. The rule was

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Speaker 4: very vague, and I think did they replaced this with

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Speaker 4: like a tip off or something now or maybe it's

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Speaker 4: just Max helping me out here.

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Speaker 2: What is the sort of replacement the modern replacement?

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Speaker 3: So now it's the last person who touched the ball,

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Speaker 3: the other team gets the ball. So if like you

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Speaker 3: and me are playing against the other and you touched

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Speaker 3: the ball out of bounds, I get the ball.

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Speaker 2: That makes sense, easy penalty, right and just it changes.

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Speaker 1: Sides and it and it incentivizes you not knock the

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Speaker 1: ball out about absolute which is smarter.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: So one example of this is stuff like early YMCA games.

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Speaker 1: The ball landed in a balcony and one team sprinted

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Speaker 1: up the stairs to get it, and then two of

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Speaker 1: the players on the other team boosted a third guy

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Speaker 1: up so he could climb on the balcony the ball.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, get the ball first. Yeah, shout out to Jack

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Speaker 2: and Miles.

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Speaker 4: There was another tale of like a kid who strikes

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Speaker 4: me as maybe one of the ones that you were

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Speaker 4: sort of characterizing as like the one that would just

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Speaker 4: come a swink, come in. Yeah, tough home life, got

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Speaker 4: a really wicked scar.

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Speaker 2: Lloyd. Where is this kid's name?

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Speaker 4: And Nate Smith writes about this, and I believe in

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Speaker 4: his in his memoir that this kid took quote great

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Speaker 4: pleasure when in a jovial move in exhibiting a scar

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Speaker 4: that he got when he dives for the ball and

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Speaker 4: came into contact with the sharp corner of a radiator.

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Speaker 4: See that rule to me feels like a holdover from

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Speaker 4: something like rugby, you know, or like a like a

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Speaker 4: dog pile kind of tackle situation, which again goes against

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Speaker 4: the spirit of the type of game that Nate Smith

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Speaker 4: was trying to create.

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Speaker 3: And to jump in here like one thing that basketball

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Speaker 3: and baseball and football all have. It's very different than

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Speaker 3: like a rugby or a soccer. Is there sports that

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Speaker 3: I don't know got invented with clocks were in greater

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Speaker 3: greater supply, So there's pauses and goes, pauses, and goes.

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Speaker 3: We watch rugby and watch soccer. It's just constantly going

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Speaker 3: a moving thing like soccer. They're like, oh, we don't

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Speaker 3: stop in soccer, and the clock never stopped.

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Speaker 2: What he's saying, they were just lousy with clocks.

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Speaker 4: In the old days, there were just clocks falling out

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Speaker 4: of the sky, which this is a time where clocks

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Speaker 4: were more plentiful.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand.

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Speaker 3: What I'm saying is in sports like basketball, you can pause,

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Speaker 3: you can stop the action. But it feels like at

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Speaker 3: this point now it feels more like a soccer or

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Speaker 3: rugby where it's like you.

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Speaker 5: Don't stop, you just keep going.

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Speaker 3: I see, because I mean the fifteen minute clock will

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Speaker 3: probably just hit start and they just played for fifteen minutes,

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Speaker 3: and then if the ball rolls out of bound, clocks

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Speaker 3: keeps going.

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Speaker 5: Now, basketball you stop the clock if it goes out

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Speaker 5: of bounce.

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Speaker 2: And of course think about it. Think about this, folks.

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Speaker 1: If you were absolutely unfamiliar with basketball and you watched

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Speaker 1: the first game, probably one of the weirdest things for

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Speaker 1: you is going to be dribbling.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's a weird word to describe bouncing of the ball.

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Speaker 4: I wonder where that came from. Would love a little

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Speaker 4: bit of etymology behind dribbling. It's very visual if you

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Speaker 4: think about it, and it is as though the ball

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Speaker 4: were some sort of fluid that is just kind of

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Speaker 4: dripping out of your hand repeatedly and back up like

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Speaker 4: a bead of moisture of some guy.

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Speaker 2: Then I'm grossing myself out.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, like nas Smith's whole rule about not moving

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Speaker 4: with the ball did not include discussion of how you

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Speaker 4: could move with the ball, right, excuse me, there.

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Speaker 2: Was no moving with the ball. No.

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Speaker 1: Once you had the ball, you had to wait for

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Speaker 1: someone to run to a better position.

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Speaker 4: Which is kind of dull, right, Like I mean, it

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Speaker 4: doesn't add much dynamism to the game. It doesn't add

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Speaker 4: much like movement. It sort of cuts down on a

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Speaker 4: lot of the things that make watching sports fun.

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Speaker 1: And it feels like a pe teacher, yeah game right.

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Speaker 1: It feels like the teacher saying, look, I've got these

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Speaker 1: kids for two hours and I can't let them get.

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Speaker 2: Her get I got a wicket hangover, yeah exactly, and

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Speaker 2: I am so hungover.

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Speaker 4: These are mad men drinking days, you know. There he

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Speaker 4: had a big old carafe of gin. You know in

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Speaker 4: his office, nothing else.

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Speaker 2: Gin and coffee mixed in together at room temperature.

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Speaker 5: Oh.

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Speaker 1: The place across the street, you know, you know, folks

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Speaker 1: were recording in the office more and more often though.

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Speaker 1: The place across the street has coffee lemonade, which I've

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Speaker 1: never heard of. I'm gonna go try it after we record.

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Speaker 2: I want to try it. You want to go? Oh, definitely,

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Speaker 2: you want to go? Max? Absolutely? Okay, see, well so

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Speaker 2: so Steve. It's pouring down rainstill.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, this was an important addition because a lot

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Speaker 4: of eyes were on the game now, a lot of scrutiny,

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Speaker 4: and we have now Ding Ding Ding corporate sponsorships, and

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of money at stake, so they there

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Speaker 4: are certain interests in making the game as competitive and

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Speaker 4: interesting to watch as possible.

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Speaker 2: It's becoming a spectator sport.

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Speaker 4: It's no longer relegated to the to the gym, you know,

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Speaker 4: with the with the incorrigibles.

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Speaker 1: And Natesmith feels like at some points he has a

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Speaker 1: dark knight of the soul and he wonders whether people

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Speaker 1: have just taken his idea and twisted it, perverted it

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Speaker 1: into something different. The idea of a player not being

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Speaker 1: able to run with the ball is what he predicated

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Speaker 1: the entire sport of basketball on. And it wasn't until

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Speaker 1: the Yale basketball team introduced dribbling and dribbling, you know,

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Speaker 1: basically fall and drops.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's what it is. Okay, So I was I

393
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Speaker 2: was barking up the right. So it was.

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Speaker 1: It was very it was a very legalistic kind of

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Speaker 1: work around because they're like, I'm holding the ball, I

396
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Speaker 1: can't walk.

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Speaker 2: Bounce I'm walking because I'm now not holding the ball.

398
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Speaker 2: Bounce I'm walking. Still I'm not holding the ball.

399
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Speaker 4: And it may have been more of a byproduct of it,

400
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 4: but it's also an opportunity to do some cool fancy footwork,

401
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Dribble it between your legs,

402
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 4: do a little fake outs and stuff. And I mean,

403
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 4: I don't think that was necessarily the intent. It's a

404
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Speaker 4: good example of something that's established for a very functional

405
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 4: reason that then becomes a sort of stylistic feature of

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Speaker 4: the game that makes it a way of flexing, a

407
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Speaker 4: way of kind of a spectacle peacocking around.

408
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Speaker 1: And these these guys at Yale, at the Yale basketball

409
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: team around eighteen ninety six, they referred to dribbling first

410
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Speaker 1: as passing to themselves.

411
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Speaker 2: What a bunch of law school Yeah, but that also

412
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Speaker 2: that makes me think of something else.

413
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was a bunch of school kids though

414
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Speaker 1: to say that, like, no, I'm not walking with the ball.

415
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 2: I wasn't holding it when I stepped. Oh I'm sorry,

416
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: I'm a child.

417
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Speaker 4: All these Yale's in there, fancy shoes, yes, and dapper haircuts.

418
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Speaker 1: They're who's who columns in the in the local paper,

419
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 1: society pages exactly, And so dribbling might have ended there

420
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Speaker 1: with just a clever loophole, right, But everybody kind of agreed,

421
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Speaker 1: and even Naismith eventually agreed that dribbling was a really

422
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: cool idea.

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Speaker 4: It is, like, like you say, it led to so

424
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 4: many other you know, sort of byproducts. Did we mention

425
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Speaker 4: that these Yale guys were really good, that they were

426
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Speaker 4: sort of the top, Yeah, they were, they were very Yeah,

427
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 4: so we're sort of what I mean, I'm sort of

428
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Speaker 4: in my head just sort of laughing at the idea

429
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Speaker 4: of late eighteen hundreds Yale students being the best at basketball,

430
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Speaker 4: because again, it just hadn't hit the cultural high water

431
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 4: mark that they ultimately would.

432
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Speaker 2: It was still very early days, capital Capitol shots, capital

433
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 2: basket there, old chum, did they even let black people

434
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 2: play basketball in these days? I didn't think so. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

435
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 4: Yeah and again yeah, I mean again, I'm not saying

436
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 4: only black people are great basketball players, but it is

437
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 4: such an important part of like hip hop culture, shoe

438
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 4: culture and all of this stuff, you know, and that

439
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 4: is really the identity that we have for it now,

440
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,360
Speaker 4: and it's just you really wouldn't think of it any

441
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 4: other way, and then it's just.

442
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 2: So white bread and dull. The early stages of basketball sports.

443
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: Have done a lot to improve the state of racial

444
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 1: discrimination in America, which continues today obviously.

445
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: But then they also have their their issues. Oh they're

446
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: huge in yeah, you know, who.

447
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 4: Actually owns the teams and some of the perhaps they

448
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 4: say that's right, and also just the taking advantage at

449
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 4: times of of you know, young athletes and.

450
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 2: Things like that, college athletes not getting paid, not.

451
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 4: Getting paid, and also just the fact that you can

452
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 4: have a very lucrative career or a very like promising

453
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 4: career and then get injured to the point of you

454
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 4: have no backup plan and like it's like you're kind.

455
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: Of toast right your shelf life in that career can

456
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 2: be pretty especially in college.

457
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 4: You can get injured to the point where it ruins

458
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 4: your prospects of a professional career before you even have

459
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 4: a chance to get paid. I think the whole not

460
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 4: paying college students anything and he making it illegal for

461
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 4: them to it's a real selling.

462
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, it has been getting better.

463
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 2: I heard it, had, I heard it had.

464
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 3: Also, I wanted to cross reference this first black basket

465
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 3: professional basketball player, first black basketball player in the NBA

466
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 3: with Earl Lloyd, and it wasn't until make sure I

467
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 3: get the state right October thirty first. Nineteen fifty's a

468
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: long time.

469
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: So the sport got way better in the fifties. The Also,

470
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: I want to give a shot to Nay Smith quote

471
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: when he came around to dribbling, he called that one

472
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: of the most spectacular and exciting maneuvers in basketball.

473
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 2: And that's the way he's going to sound now. It's

474
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 2: just difference. I say, swimming. Snosberry's tastes like Snosberry. I

475
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 2: don't know why. He's like a Willy Walker. Ask figure

476
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 2: in minds and he knew.

477
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: The reason he was saying dribbling was better is because

478
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: he heard he had seen other attempts to try to

479
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: bring movement to the game. He said players would lose

480
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: possession of the ball voluntarily, by which means they dropped

481
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: it and they would roll it somewhere.

482
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 2: That's kind of boring to watch.

483
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: Dribbling was a much more sophisticated version of this tactic,

484
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: and later people like philosopher doctor Sean Klein would call

485
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: it a subversion. Dribbling as a subversion. They were adhering

486
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: to the rules the yelites, but they were subverting the

487
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: expectations of how those rules.

488
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: Would be followed.

489
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 4: Hey, Klein, stay in your lane. Stick to talking about

490
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 4: play nerds. Yeah, you know, what do you know about sport? Yeah,

491
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 4: you can't dribble, nietzschee bro it's a subversion that does

492
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 4: sound like something professor of philosophy.

493
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 2: You you guys saw that fantastic show Kunk on Earth.

494
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 4: I have heard of it, and I know it's related

495
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 4: to a really great British guy who wrote Black Black.

496
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

497
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: I read it like a bunch of Charlie Brooker. Yeah,

498
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: that's you. You especially on Netflix now.

499
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 4: And I thank you for reminding me because lately I

500
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 4: have been running dry in that phase where you just

501
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 4: scroll for forty five minutes and you have subscriptions to everything,

502
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 4: but yet there's nothing for you.

503
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: And it's very disheartening.

504
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 4: We're in an age of oversaturation that yet feels like

505
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 4: we have no options at all.

506
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: I feel it somehow a mean statement about my intelligence.

507
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: If I look on Criterion channel, I'm like, I don't

508
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: feel like watching any of these.

509
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 4: I do love Criteria. I love it recently. Why there's

510
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 4: a great collection on there. I think you'd like, Ben.

511
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 4: It's a Roger Korman and directed all of these Edgar

512
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 4: Allan Poe adaptations, because I guess it was just like

513
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 4: free intellectual property, you know, because it was like in

514
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 4: the public domain. And some of them like share the

515
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 4: same sets, like Pitt in the Pendulum and follow the

516
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 4: House of Usher clearly reuse some of the same spooky

517
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 4: skeletons in the Crypt, but they're like really well done.

518
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 4: And you know, Roger Corman, of course was a super

519
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 4: important creature feature kind of director. He gave a lot

520
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 4: of the best, biggest, you know, blockbuster directors their start,

521
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 4: like James Cameron, I think worked on The Cruise with

522
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 4: him and stuff, and you know, he was real scrappy

523
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 4: and kind of figured out how to make use of

524
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 4: what he had. But those Poe adaptations are great, and

525
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 4: there's like ten of them, and the Vincent Price is

526
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 4: in almost every one of them.

527
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: All. I really appreciate that.

528
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: No, I'm going to check those out, and when you

529
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: check out Kunk on Earth, I don't want to split up.

530
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: I've been meaning to, and thank you for the reminder.

531
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: I'll give you a heads up. Could you like this?

532
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: So Kunk talks to a lot of top notch experts

533
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: on history of very specific aspects.

534
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 2: Kunk has sort of like an explica. She's like Steve

535
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: Colbert when he's doing the Cobert Rapport.

536
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 4: Okay, but it's sort of like a blank slate, kind

537
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 4: of like figuring things out, like kind of like taking

538
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 4: the stock of what this earth is all about.

539
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 2: There, kind of.

540
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: Aggressive with the profound confidence of the unshakeably stupid. There

541
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: you got is the best way to describe Kunk as

542
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: a character.

543
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 5: I got it.

544
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: But anyway, there's this one guy's a philosopher that she

545
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: talks to who is not enjoying the conversation, and he's hilarious.

546
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: That's what I think of whenever I hear about a

547
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: philosopher now, oh gosh, okay, just text me when you

548
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: watch it.

549
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 2: I will so well.

550
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 4: For some time, when you were saying kunk on Earth,

551
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 4: I pictured it like a Morgan Mindy kind of situation

552
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,719
Speaker 4: where it's sort of like an alien taking in like

553
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 4: this absurd planet. But it does not seem like it's

554
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 4: that at all, but it sounds amazing. So this idea

555
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 4: of dribbling being kind of not popular to some right.

556
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: They're always going to be you know, some quote unquote

557
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: traditionalist or people who say, hey, that's again the rules,

558
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: and they're right, it is kind of against the rules.

559
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 4: But if I describe this amorl though, like this philosopher

560
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: guy Klin, he's like, you referred to the a moral

561
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 4: underpinnings of dribbling, right.

562
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And then and then says later says, despite this,

563
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, more than a century after the invention of dribbling,

564
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: it's safe to say basketball is better thanks to it,

565
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: and points this out, which we see in so many things.

566
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: Client says, in the creation of any game, there are gaps.

567
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: The players discover, these ambiguities and vagueness and the rules.

568
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: It's the way that the game evolves, which I think

569
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: is a fair point. Now it is, and I was

570
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: mischaracterizing Clin. He wasn't saying that he was against it.

571
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: He was just describing kind of.

572
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 4: The evolution of this and how yeah, it technically was

573
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 4: changing the rules, but it was, like he said, more

574
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 4: flipping them a little bit and making it a little

575
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 4: more interesting.

576
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: I'm still thinking about Clin now. I like the idea

577
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: of this being Klein's Mary mission in life is to

578
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: stop drippling, because it's.

579
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: To end dribbling. This shall not stand.

580
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 4: Only classic basketball is Professor Natesmith intended exactly only with

581
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 4: peach baskets.

582
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: And they're like, all right, doctor, let's get your back

583
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: to the bus.

584
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: Let's get Yeah.

585
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: So originally to let's talk about the ball. Originally the

586
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: soccer ball, right, yeah, it was a soccer ball, and

587
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: later Naismith asked a former baseball pitcher named A. G.

588
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: Spaulding to create a ball specifically for basketball.

589
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: I've heard of him, You have at least heard of

590
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: the name.

591
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.

592
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: It looked way different than the modern basketball today. It

593
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: had uh suutures on it, you know, yeah, Frank.

594
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: Like a medicine ball.

595
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, very that's a great comparison. And because

596
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: this stitched up scar basically running down the middle of it,

597
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: it affected how the ball moved, so you had to

598
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: try to bounce it.

599
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 2: On the flat part, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

600
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 4: And it's funny though, because the modern basketball still does

601
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 4: have those kind of visual seams, like I don't know

602
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 4: if they're actually doing anything.

603
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: It's obviously all molded, you know, and all of that.

604
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: There's a pattern to it because it is consistently around

605
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: the you know, it's spread in a consistent design around

606
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: the ball. But to your point, it does remind me

607
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: of when you go to a fast food place and

608
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,959
Speaker 1: you can tell they put fake grill marks on the thing.

609
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: That's right. It feels like fake grill marks. That's so funny, man. Yeah.

610
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 4: And and I bet to your point, Ben, if you

611
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 4: did dribble it on one of those seams, it probably

612
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 4: would fly off willy nilly, you know. Yeah, it wouldn't

613
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 4: be consistent, so that would probably be a little more tricky.

614
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: And that's where that is, apparently, where trick dribbling comes

615
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: around the stuff you were talking about earlier.

616
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 4: You can make it kind of put a little english

617
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 4: on it on a sideway.

618
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool.

619
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: So we did say that. Nasmith came around to dribbling,

620
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: he became a dribbling fanboy. But make no mistake, he

621
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: didn't love all the changes into his sport. After he

622
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: stopped coaching, he watched a contest in nineteen ten between

623
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: Kansas and Missouri and he freaked out. He freaked out.

624
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: He said, they're killing my game. He said, the referees

625
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: are need to be more authoritative. He said, you know,

626
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: this game is full of fouls. I made rules for

627
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: there not to be fouls. And he was irritated with it.

628
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: And then to your point about corporate America. Just one

629
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: year later, in nineteen eleven, he published an editorial talking

630
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: about the problem of quote commercialization in sports.

631
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: Oof. Yeah, I think that ship has sailed.

632
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 4: Brou Yeah even then, like what we were talking about

633
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 4: earlier with Max, Like you know, now it's just they're

634
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 4: just squishing the game.

635
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: Talk about making the.

636
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 4: Rules malleable for the wrong reasons, you know, to like

637
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 4: fit in more advertisements. I mean, this is definitely the

638
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 4: early stages of the utter corporatization and commercialization of sports.

639
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said, look, you need to keep money out

640
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: of college basketball. I hate the idea of quote, the

641
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: worship of the dollar in the field of athletics. And

642
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: then he gets a little high faluting here. I'm on

643
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: his side, but he gets high faluting. He says he's

644
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: invented his game to be a quote, a laboratory in

645
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: which the great moral lessons of fair play and the

646
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: square deal are taught.

647
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: Again, cool, cool idea, but weird some truth to that.

648
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: It isn't good, you know.

649
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 4: It is certainly if you're young and you're learning to

650
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 4: play basketball. It's a community building thing. It's a way

651
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 4: of making friends, you know, if you're playing in college

652
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 4: or in high school, even like you'll you're in you're

653
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 4: in the trenches with these people. You're learning how to

654
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 4: think of others, you know, and not just yourself. And

655
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 4: saying what he's saying, though, is more about the I

656
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 4: don't know, I guess kind of the idealistic.

657
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: Version of what the sport is kind of drink in

658
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: his own flavoring.

659
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 4: He definitely is no question about it, and he's going

660
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 4: to go on to drink some even more oddly flavored

661
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 4: as we're to get to that for sure. But again,

662
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 4: that ship has sailed. This guy and is out of

663
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 4: his hands now like truly he is. He is passed

664
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 4: the ball Ah there it is, whether by choice or

665
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 4: just again, it's just it's just what happens. An idea

666
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 4: is you can't really own it at the end of

667
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 4: the day. Especially you can own you can, but you

668
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 4: can say I created this, or like I made this.

669
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 4: But it's like with the work of art, you know,

670
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 4: once people are interpreting it and looking at it and

671
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 4: then enjoying it and making it part of their lives,

672
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 4: then it's no longer even it doesn't even belong to

673
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 4: the artist anymore.

674
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: And if it's a good idea, then should it not

675
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: belong to everyone?

676
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: And should you not be able to improve it?

677
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 4: That's another thing though, that makes a different than say

678
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 4: Van Go going back and touching up his paintings. Like

679
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 4: this is an idea and it's a little bit fluid.

680
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 4: But then you start to get into these debates whether

681
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, strict constructionist kind of views of sports.

682
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that because I was I went

683
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: to the Prato, you know, when I's traveling a while

684
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: back and they've got a bunch of Picasso stuff, and

685
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: I heard this amazing, amazing conversation from two people. I'm

686
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: still trying to figure out what exactly their relationship was,

687
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: but it's like it was this older guy and this kid,

688
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: and the kid is pretty young, maybe eight or ten.

689
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: I don't think the older guy was his father from

690
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: the way they talk to each other because the dad.

691
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: They're staring at the huge the huge Picasso painting, which

692
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: is the bull fight thing. Yeah, I can't remember Guernica

693
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: that yeah, yeah, I think right, the big one.

694
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. So they're staring at it.

695
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: It's kind of slow because we're there on a weekday morning,

696
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: and uh in Spanish. The older guy is saying, what's

697
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: the big deal about this? It's impressive, you know, as

698
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I could do this. And then

699
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: they right, and then the kid looks up without missing

700
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: your beat, and he goes, yeah, but you didn't. You

701
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: won't and you never will. And I was like, I

702
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: don't think that's your dad.

703
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 5: Game set match.

704
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: How does that go?

705
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like no one can well knock you out.

706
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 5: That's good.

707
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, cool, I know I know from sports thee love

708
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 4: it makes a super who super who.

709
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 2: I was thinking of the interstate gas station, which is

710
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: a cool one. Yeah, it's it's no BUCkies. It's no BUCkies.

711
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: But who is nothing.

712
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 4: Sadder than a love's across the street from a BUCkies.

713
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 4: It's like, y'all just is not going.

714
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 2: To go up.

715
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the sport was going to undergo this kind

716
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: of transformation as soon as it got popular. Dribbling probably

717
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: saved basketball, to be honest with you.

718
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: No question.

719
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: And this goes to something that you were you were

720
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: talking about at the very beginning when we started this

721
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: series this week, Basketball is something that is continuing to evolve.

722
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: Colleen Macklin. In conversation with author Nick Greed, Colleen Macklin

723
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: says games are a democratic art form. The beauty of

724
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: a physical game is that you don't have to be

725
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: a programmer or an artist to make changes. The rules

726
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: are modified and tweaked and then played by regular humans.

727
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:31,439
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like crowdsourcing.

728
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.

729
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 6: Yeah.

730
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 4: Then again, the art comparison, it's a tricky one because

731
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 4: you know, you sure art belongs to the public, but

732
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 4: also you're not going to go back and change a

733
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 4: work of art like that would be considered black unless

734
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 4: you're like George Lucas, in which you shouldn't do that point.

735
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 4: But with basketball or any sport, or like hell, the Constitution,

736
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 4: it's designed to be somewhat fluid and living so that

737
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 4: it can change with the times, you know what I mean,

738
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 4: varying degrees of success. But I would argue and agree

739
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 4: with you that dribbling was an incredibly important innovation in

740
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 4: the sport.

741
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: And that's where it verges into something poetic, because Nick

742
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 1: Green says basketball is the only major sport that can

743
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: be traced to a single person. But that person's most

744
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: important contribution was that he relinquished control of his invention,

745
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: and so he built the car and he let other

746
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: people drive it and decide where it would go, you know,

747
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: And there's there's something poetic to that. It's still work

748
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: in progress, as you said, and it's gone far beyond

749
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: just keeping a bunch of rowdy kids from beating the

750
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 1: stuft out of each other.

751
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 2: You know.

752
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 4: Sometimes we save these these tangents and trivia bits for

753
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 4: like our new kind of clip show concept, and we're

754
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 4: starting to do, but I think that some of these

755
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 4: would be a great way to wrap this one up.

756
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, just we we've kind of been hinting at some

757
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 2: of nath Smith's.

758
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 4: Sort of let's do it otter proclivities, and also the

759
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 4: fact that despite having invented the game, he only ever.

760
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 2: Played it twice.

761
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, and like, you know, some of the images

762
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 4: of him in the early days are hilarious.

763
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 2: And there's one where it's like him and this like

764
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 2: old like kind of washer woman.

765
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 4: Looking type figure Kobe, and he's holding the basket up

766
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 4: and she's just got this like really it's like it's

767
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 4: again a soccer ball, really really funny.

768
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, only played it twice.

769
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 4: His team in one of those games, the teachers at

770
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 4: the YMCA lost five to one, so he did. He

771
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 4: played in that original game, that's the five to one

772
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 4: game that we were talking about, the one that was

773
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 4: first for public consumption, and the one point for his

774
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,919
Speaker 4: team that was scored in that game was by his pal,

775
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 4: a guy named AA Stagg, who was kind of the

776
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 4: inventor of American football.

777
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: And uh yeah yeah.

778
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting how these stories coincide because Nay Smith,

779
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: along with his spouse Bodney Smith, they invented an early

780
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 1: version of the football helmet to help out Stag and

781
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: their early version was flannel.

782
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 4: It makes me think of like the Pete and Pete hat,

783
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 4: you know, like the kind of what do they call

784
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 4: that a deer stalker hats or whatever, but like the

785
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 4: flannel classic red and black, you know, checkered kind of pattern.

786
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

787
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 4: It was made to prevent something called cauliflower ear, which

788
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 4: is a condition that happens and he get bashed in

789
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 4: the ear and repeatedly and it starts to kind of

790
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 4: swell up and then stays that way.

791
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is this is strange because he also

792
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: he also had beef with coaches, even though he himself

793
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 1: was a coach at University of Kansas for a while.

794
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 2: He thought terrible coach.

795
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a bad losing record because he thought

796
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: coaches basically shouldn't do their job.

797
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: Oh.

798
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: He said, if you're a coach who micro manages your

799
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: players by telling them what to do while they're on

800
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: the court.

801
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 2: It's like cheating your tantamount. Huh, you're evil? WHOA? So

802
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: he was. He was way worse than evil.

803
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: He was way more like I think a ted where

804
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: he's like, come on, guys, you know basketball, it's a

805
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: lot like falling in love.

806
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 4: Following it's like going on a magical journey with your

807
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 4: best friend and being a goldfish.

808
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 6: Shall you just get out there? You'd be a dog

809
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 6: with peanut, but you have a good old uh No.

810
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 6: But that all that tracks though, doesn't it. It's philosophically,

811
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 6: he's still stuck in the gym trying to get these

812
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 6: horny teenagers to chill out.

813
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 2: You know.

814
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 4: All of this other stuff is sort of against his

815
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 4: whole philosophy of the game. And I was saying earlier

816
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 4: it almost sounds like he thought telling them what to

817
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 4: do was cheating or something. It was like depriving them

818
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 4: of the part that actually matters, where they figure it

819
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 4: out themselves.

820
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: Ah. Yes, And that is a good point. It is

821
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: an aesthetic philosophical point. We also know and maybe this

822
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: is our maybe this is our rap, because I know

823
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: we're all three excited about this. What happened to Nasmith

824
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 1: after basketball? After coaching? If you look at Rob Raine's

825
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: biography of our buddy James, you find that he spent

826
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: his years after coaching working on medical experiments. This is

827
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: a true story.

828
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,479
Speaker 4: Look at John Harvey Kellogg type figure. You get deep

829
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 4: into this. Yeah, Betty was really into enemas. But you know,

830
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 4: he invented or was developing, something called a sobriety tester,

831
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 4: which I imagine must have been some early form of breathalyzer,

832
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 4: right kind of. I mean, they didn't really go any

833
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 4: further than that. He also had all of these notions

834
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 4: about what testing people to see if they add natural

835
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 4: athletic abilities, and the test that he developed is boggers.

836
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so he would he was okay, is true

837
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: story Again, He would blindfold his students or his patients, right,

838
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: his subjects, he will clog up their ears. He would

839
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 1: put them in the driver's seat of a car and

840
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,280
Speaker 1: see if they could sustain a speed of thirty five

841
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: miles an hour. Doesn't that just mean that they're like

842
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: loose can and kind of insane. What does that have

843
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: to do with anything? It doesn't even involve coordination.

844
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: He can't sell you.

845
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: He says, if you do that, you've got a great

846
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: canesthetic sense. And it's like, thank you, I'm glad no

847
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: one died.

848
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 2: No joke.

849
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 4: Hopefully they were doing it in like a park and

850
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 4: abandoned parking lot or some sort of test track.

851
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: But again, he was not a rich man. I'm not

852
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: sure where he would have conducted.

853
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 5: He wasn't even a good driver.

854
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 4: No, he hated driving, that's right. And then the last one,

855
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 4: I think, which is maybe what we've been hitting at.

856
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 4: He invented this like stretcher machinet machine for children to

857
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 4: like help them grow taller.

858
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 2: Well, you know, for anybody.

859
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 4: Didn't have to be for children, just for short kings

860
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 4: and queens out there. And he was was interviewed about

861
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 4: this device by a school newspaper and he said that

862
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 4: babies between the ages of five months in one year

863
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 4: should be given a good stretching oh tight. But there

864
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 4: was something that he was a little concerned about. He

865
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 4: did have something that he hadn't quite figured out yet.

866
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 2: My torture rack is so effective that the children may

867
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: never stop growing.

868
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 5: And definitely these.

869
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 2: String being giants have ruined basketball. Yeah, yeah, the playing

870
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: field has no longer been leveled. The very playing field

871
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: has been leveled. The other kind destroyed this device. But

872
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 2: what a guy, man.

873
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 4: I'm really such an interesting story despite all of the

874
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 4: inherent racism.

875
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 2: Obviously that we I wouldn't say we glossed over. I

876
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 2: think we just what a what a week? Two? And

877
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 2: we're not even done because we may come back to this.

878
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 4: I think there's more because again we haven't even gotten

879
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 4: into the modern era and all of the you know,

880
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 4: again we've we've hinted at it, but at the tie

881
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 4: ins to fashion and music and I mean.

882
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 2: Just the the level.

883
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 4: Of stardom that is achieved by you know, some of

884
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 4: these individuals. It's almost like for it's to me. I

885
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 4: don't know about you, but doesn't it feel like basketball

886
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 4: is kind of the stars sports, star maker sport more

887
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 4: so even than baseball household more, household amy kind of.

888
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 2: Thing for us.

889
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: Yet in pop culture, basketball, like very very well known

890
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: athletes achieve a level of fame that transcends the sport.

891
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: That's what I'm getting at, and you nailed it.

892
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,959
Speaker 3: I would say, of the sports, basketball is the one

893
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 3: where one person can take over the game a lot

894
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 3: more and baseball you could go like four for four

895
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 3: with three home runs and your team loses. Football, you

896
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 3: like a quarterback can be really good. But like you know,

897
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 3: Michael Jordan, Lebron James, star.

898
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 4: Maker, like on the by the nature of the very

899
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 4: nature of the sport right.

900
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 3: How it's played too, is in a lot of systems,

901
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 3: like you know, our local team in a lot of

902
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 3: Hawks is the offense goes through Trey Young and he

903
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 3: runs it, so that person can sometimes get because they're kind.

904
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 5: Of like, you know, the point guard.

905
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 3: They're running the whole thing, so they get the attention

906
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 3: focused on them, which you.

907
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 4: Know, doesn't That also mean though that it could be

908
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 4: more conducive to fixing games and chiefs and if you

909
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 4: have inside information that a player is not going to

910
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 4: be there or something like that, or you could make

911
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 4: bets accordingly, I mean early two thousands.

912
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 3: I forget forgetting his name the top my head. My

913
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 3: buddy Kevin would be very disappointed. But there was an

914
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 3: NBA ref who yet we talked about.

915
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 4: Him, and it was easy to do because he'd kind

916
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 4: of do it like death by a thousand cuts, like

917
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 4: little little inaccurate, and that nobody could even notice.

918
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: Those are so subjective. Also, I want to Scott Foster.

919
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 3: I don't think christ Paul has ever won a playoff

920
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 3: game with this guy.

921
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: Shout out to Brian Towey. That's right, that was the

922
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 2: guy about. You know, he believes all.

923
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: Sorts and uh and also gather ye Spaldings, while you may,

924
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: I posit to you the basketball is in its heyday

925
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: until sumo wrestling becomes more normal.

926
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: That is a hot take back. No, I can't wait

927
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 2: to see sumo arrests. Still, it's very popular in Japan.

928
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 2: I mean like it's also a.

929
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: Huge organized crime element to it totally, because you know,

930
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: it's fixing sports, right.

931
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 4: I always really liked i Honda in Street Fighter too. Yeah,

932
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 4: he always fought in like the weird Japanese bathhouse, you know,

933
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 4: and he had the cool torpedo move and uh and

934
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 4: the slap.

935
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: He did a yeah, good, good animation on that.

936
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: I I was so disappointed because I thought I was

937
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: going to go see a sumo match. But they're really expensive. Really,

938
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: they're really expensive. And then I thought I was talking

939
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,479
Speaker 1: to a friend and was like, what are we paying

940
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: for here? For equipment or something like that, and he goes, man,

941
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 1: it might just be for you know, the upkeep of.

942
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 4: The yeah, massages and stuff, you know, and barley.

943
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: I mean, because they might look like they might like

944
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: look like they're not in shape.

945
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 4: Oh no, it's a different kind of in shape, right. Yeah,

946
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 4: it's like competitive eaters.

947
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 2: You know. I bet you too, I mean maybe you

948
00:46:59,239 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: saw this.

949
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 4: I bet you that there are like sumo stars, just

950
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 4: like there are basketball stars.

951
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they're just an individual kind of thing.

952
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 1: Like go into business, like how Shock owns the Krispy

953
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: Kreme here in town.

954
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 2: They own stuff.

955
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: You know, You'll be walking by a restaurant and then

956
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: you'll see a picture of a sumo guy who's just.

957
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 5: Like some you know.

958
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 2: Boom, I'm into noodles now.

959
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: But that's but so we we hope we delivered, folks

960
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: on what we're saying in part one of this series,

961
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: which is that even if you yourself don't tune into

962
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: every basketball game, there's a lot to learn.

963
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 4: Oh man, No, the history of it is so interesting

964
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 4: and uh, you know it also being one of only

965
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 4: two uniquely American sports, you know, which.

966
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 2: Is kind of a big deal. Yeah.

967
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: And speaking of big deals, we want to thank you

968
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: for tuning in, folks. We also want to thank some

969
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: of the big deals on our show, our research associate

970
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: doc Z of course, super producer Max Williams. And I

971
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 1: don't know if he deserves it, but I'm still gonna

972
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,959
Speaker 1: thank Jonathan Strickland, aka the Quister, even though he high

973
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: roaded the heck out of us in me he's in

974
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: the office right.

975
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 2: Now you think I didn't see him.

976
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 3: He's using the biggest and nice studios just for himself.

977
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 4: I caught a glint out of the corner of my

978
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 4: eye and it was the light reflecting off his bald head.

979
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 5: He's also in the studio that does not have blinds.

980
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 2: Yet it never can stare at he did that.

981
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 5: We're in the one with the best ac.

982
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 4: Speaking of the zoo, if anyone's gonna be in Vegas

983
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 4: next week for the iHeart Music Festival, your boy's been

984
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 4: bowling and Noel Brown will be podcasting in something of

985
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 4: a human zoo type scenario.

986
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

987
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 4: I mean there's like a booth of some sort that

988
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 4: we will be housed in. I hope there's snacks. I

989
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 4: think there's air conditioning. But it is as part of

990
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 4: like a a Bose promotion of some kind, which I

991
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 4: love and not getting paid to say that I love

992
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 4: their products. But you can come and put on headphones

993
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 4: that observe us like like reptiles in a reptile house

994
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 4: or something.

995
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 2: You know.

996
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't word is still out on whether or

997
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: not you can feed us, but.

998
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 2: You know, be the change, just like James NS exactly.

999
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 4: But we'll be there on Friday doing ridiculous history and

1000
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 4: then also stuff that I don't want you to know,

1001
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 4: in addition to several other podcasts that are in our

1002
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 4: kind of og stuff, kind of network family.

1003
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: You know who else is going to be there to Jonathan, Yeah,

1004
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 2: that's right.

1005
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 4: You know who else is else is going to be there,

1006
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 4: Lenny Kravitz, Oh yeah, Cheryl Crow, Little Wayne, Yeah, yeah, lots,

1007
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 4: Travis Scott, who's apparently got quite popular. Yeah, I'm stoked

1008
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 4: about Cheryl Crow. I'm actually genuinely kind of dig Chryl.

1009
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: Didn't we have a fake beef with Cheryl Crow back

1010
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 2: in the day. She knows what she did. Okay, fair,

1011
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 2: Maybe we can address it. We can squash the beef

1012
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: for set it on fire. She just pushes people. We'll

1013
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: see you next time, folks.

1014
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1015
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.