1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: I'm Greg Glot and this is the War on Drugs. 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: Here we go, episode ten. We are reaching the end 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: of our war on drugs journey Man, final chapter of 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: season one. Yeah, yeah, we're getting down to that last 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: little piece man, that the last little piece of blunt 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: left man is the roach. Yeah, but sometimes it is 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: the most potent part, and it's the most hard hitting part. 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: And I think that's what this episode is today. What 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: a beautiful metaphor, Clayton, you ever, Hey, hey, sometimes things 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: just come together nice. But I think at this point 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: in our journey Man, we gotta ask, and I think 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,319 Speaker 1: you're the right person asked this question too. How long 13 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: are we going to continue to keep treating addicts like criminals. 14 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: I always like to have an answer for you, Clayton, 15 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: if you ask me statistics and this or that, or 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: what's legal? What's the schedule one drug? I'll give it 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: to you. But it's got to the point where that's 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: what I expect from you. I expect nothing less. Well, 19 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: you should really lower your expectations at this point with me, Man, 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I wish I had a good answer. Um. 21 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: I think we're getting closer, but I don't think we're 22 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: there yet. I think more and more people are understanding addiction. 23 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: But man, the war on drugs, it's not just the incarceration, 24 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: it's not just the civil fortune, it's not all these 25 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: things that we've talked about, the policies. It really is 26 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: the social fabric of our country and how it hasn't 27 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: been ingrained because we've just been hit with this propaganda 28 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: machine for you know, over one hundred years now, and 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: that's really really hard. It's gonna take a long time. 30 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: But hopefully podcasts like this more people speaking, you know, 31 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: people like Morgan Godman our guests today, you know, kind 32 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: of telling her story and understanding the tragedy of the 33 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: drug war and how it touches on some of the things. 34 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: Hopefully that'll help, you know, maybe maybe it's not just 35 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: one answer. But I think Morgan actually she shows us 36 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: from the top to the bottom, or should I say 37 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: the bottom to the top, how this were on drugs, 38 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: like affects people and everything that we've talked about in 39 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: previous episodes I think are highlighted and illustrated in her story. 40 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: So today we're gonna do something a little different, you know. 41 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: I know, most of the time, as us and the 42 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: guests and we're jumping in there and stuff. But today 43 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: we're just gonna get out the way. Man. We're gonna 44 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: get out the way, because this is a story that 45 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: you need to hear, uninterrupted, unfiltered, and from the mouth 46 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: of the person who lived it. Yeah, bad news you 47 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: don't get to hear Clayton's smooth, soulful voice. Good news, 48 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: you don't have to hear my nasally deviated, septing voice 49 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: for the next thirty minutes. So, and we're going to 50 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: steal an idea from Jason Flom, who you may remember 51 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: from one of our quick fixes. He's, you know, the 52 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: has his own podcast, Wrongful Convictions, where he does amazing 53 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: work helping get people exonerated. He has a thing on 54 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: there called closing Arguments where he allows for the experts 55 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: and guests that he's brought on to kind of have 56 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: that final word. And we're going to kind of take 57 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: that and expand on it and give that final word 58 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: to Morgan for the next you know, thirty thirty five 59 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: minutes for y'all to kind of hear her journey, because 60 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: I think that's gonna be the best way to really 61 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: hear this and really wrap up this season with a 62 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: real life example of you know, tragedy and triumph. So yeah, 63 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: we'll let Morgan take it away. I always felt like 64 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: a fairly upstanding citizen, and it wasn't always easy to 65 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: maintain that. During heroin addiction. There was times when I 66 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: had no money and I would think, well, should I shoplift? 67 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: Should I steal? I just couldn't do it. I watched 68 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: some of my friends go there, and I knew it 69 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: wasn't for me. I would pick up an extra shift 70 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: at the Dominoes and I would make it, and I 71 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: always made it, and I never turned to other forms 72 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: of crime, and it didn't matter. The first time I 73 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: tried to kill myself, I was eleven years old. Is 74 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: a painfully awkward and shy child. Had I came of 75 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: age now, I would have probably been diagnosed as being 76 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: on the spectrum definitely neurodivergen. I don't care to label 77 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: it anymore because I'm grown and my life is fine. 78 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: Definitely had social issues, severe social issues, severe mental health issues. 79 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: There was violence in my household, just you know, the 80 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: standard round the mill stuff. I had a middle class background, 81 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: but then was cast into sudden poverty at the age 82 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: of sixteen, my mom had a gambling addiction and was 83 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: caught embezzling and her house was foreclose. By the time 84 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: I was sixteen, I had found the drug subculture. We 85 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: had ecstasy pills, then cocaine, and then this girl who 86 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: had broken her leg riding horses had forty miligram oxycon 87 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: bills and she said, I'll trade you two of mine 88 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: for two years ecstasy. I'm like, yeah, sure, and we 89 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: do the trade. That is the first time I tried 90 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: to oxycotton, and I just crushed it up with the 91 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: coating on and all I didn't no better, snored it, 92 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, why did I ever do cocaine? 93 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: This is so much better. Come to find out, oxyconton 94 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: was actually really expensive and so we couldn't afford to 95 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: do it that much. I was already working as a 96 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: pizza delivery driver. This was right after I turned eighteen 97 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: years old. And my friend Justin's we went to high 98 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: school together, and I meet him and he sells oxyconton. 99 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: That's like how he makes his living. Justin was like, yo, 100 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 1: that's a lot of money that you just spent, and like, 101 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: I'm here to make money, but you're my actual friend, 102 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, there's an alternative, right, And he showed us 103 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: how to smoke heroin on foil and I was like, oh, 104 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: my god, and my own my mind exploded. When I 105 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: was sixteen and there was no food in the house, 106 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: I dropped out of high school to go work full 107 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: time at McDonald's because I had to eat, and so 108 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: life was pretty miserable, and so drugs were an escape 109 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: for that day. And they were pretty fun, you know what. 110 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: They worked quite well in the beginning and for a 111 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: long time. Honestly, drugs work. That's why people doing them, 112 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: and it gave me something to look forward to. People 113 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: are medicating emotional pain they've learned maladaptive coping mechanisms. Most often, 114 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: addiction is a response to childhood trauma are sometimes adult trauma, 115 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: but especially adverse childhood experiences. Then the societal response to 116 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: that is traumatizing you further and then sitting and scratching 117 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: our heads like, well, why isn't it working? That pain 118 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: existential dread, physical pain, emotional pain. That's why people are using. 119 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: We try to punish the hurt out of people. You 120 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: cannot punish the hurt out of people. I worked in 121 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,559 Speaker 1: the hood as close as you know, portlandis has a hood. 122 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: I'm in my Dominance uniform. I remember my boss needed 123 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: to cut one of the delivery drivers and I volunteered, 124 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,559 Speaker 1: and I regretted that for the rest of my life. 125 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: Then my friend Tim, who works at the bar two 126 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 1: streets down, he texts me. He says, I'm so sick. 127 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: I'm sick at work. Please come. I don't get off 128 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: until two am. He's a bartender, can you get me 129 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: through my shift? And I was like okay. And there 130 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: I am in my Domino's uniform, sitting in my car 131 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: and the parking lot of this really grungy dive bar, 132 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: cooking a shot and I have these big over the 133 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: ear headphones on because I'm watching How I Met Your 134 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: Mother on my phone, and so I gets stuck in 135 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: my dash and I'm just like cooking Dana Da And 136 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: then I just remember and I looked to my left 137 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: and it's a thick and Portland police officer and I 138 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: know right then I am going to jail. And the 139 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: police support's funny because I had like drawn up the 140 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: heroine in the syringe as he was knocking on my 141 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: door and he's like step out of the car. I 142 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,559 Speaker 1: squirted it on the ground and he tried to arrest 143 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: me for obstruction of evidence for that, and the DA 144 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: declined to prosecute. But then I had a Graham or 145 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: just let's send a Graham hidden in my car, like 146 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: it was about eighty dollars worth of heroin, twenty four 147 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: hours worth of heroin, and so that's what they gave 148 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: me the felony four. I just want to clarify, being 149 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: addicted to heroin is synonymous with being a hardened criminal 150 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: in the eyes of the law. No one was accusing 151 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: me of being a drug dealer at that time. All 152 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: they were accusing me of was simple drug possession and 153 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: that's all that it takes in the United States to 154 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: be considered a hardened criminal. But it's Portland, right, so progressive. 155 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: So they put me into the kinder, gentler to alternative 156 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: to incarceration drug court. I ended up going to jail 157 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: over and over and over because I couldn't stop doing heroin. 158 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: But I did everything else that they asked me to do. 159 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: I would go to my groups, I would meet with 160 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: my po I would pee in their cup and it 161 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: would be positive for her. But I'm like, but hey, 162 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: look I'm engaging. I'm here, but I was still using 163 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: That didn't work for them. They didn't like that. So 164 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: call it which you want to call it. Drug court 165 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: is just an extension of the war on drugs. I mean, 166 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: I'm jumping through their hoops because at the time I 167 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: hadn't yet been convicted of the felony. He was still pending. Right, 168 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: it was deferred. So as long as you jump through 169 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: all our hoops for a year and a half and 170 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: we'll dismiss it. So I'm jumping through their hoops. I'd 171 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: done twenty eight days in impatient with my car parked 172 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: out front of the treatment center. I'm out in Washington County. 173 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: I get pulled over, he said, wavering within the lane, 174 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: which is a fun one that they love to use, 175 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: like suspicion of d y. The officer asked me to 176 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: search my car. No, sir, I did not consent to searches. 177 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: Over and over starts threatening me, says he's going to 178 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: do the field sobriety test. I said, go right ahead, 179 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: and then he just starts screaming at me. What the 180 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: fuck is that? What's that handed to me now? And 181 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, what, I don't know? What he's talking about, 182 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: and I'm like picking up random bits of detritus, like 183 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: is it this? What do you want, dude? What do 184 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: you want? And he makes it sound like it's a weapon. 185 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: He was talking about pieces of trash and I picked 186 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: up like the first thing, it was like a receipt. 187 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: He was like no. I picked up the next thing 188 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: and he was like no, And I picked up the 189 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: next thing. He goes that, he takes it out, He 190 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: opens my door, snatches me up and pulls me out 191 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: of the car, shoves me against the car and pats 192 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: me down, and I'm like, what is going on? And 193 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: he said that piece of plastic tested positive for heroin 194 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: residue and that I was under arrest for felony drug possession. 195 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: I was like, dude, I picked my car up from 196 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: treatment today, that that car has been sitting in the 197 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: treatment center parking lot since before. What do you mean 198 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: I'm under arrest for residue? And it's actually super common. 199 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 1: There's just thousands of Americans have gotten felony convictions for 200 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: residue amounts not visible to the naked eye, on detritus, 201 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: on trash. I am really emboldened. I go in and 202 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: I said this was an illegal search for it the 203 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: Poison Street. There's no way that any of this is valid. 204 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: I declined the search, and he pulls up the police 205 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: report and it says, here, can we search your car? 206 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: And then it says miss Godwin, Yeah, sure, go ahead, 207 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: and I fucking excuse me, and I'm like, pull the 208 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: dash camp footage. They're lying. I did not consent to 209 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: that search. In fact, I repeatedly declined, and he goes, oh, well, 210 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: the Washington County sheriff Department doesn't actually have dash camps 211 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: or body cameras. And my lawyer had to sit me 212 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: down and said, hey, listen, you were just arrested for 213 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: drug possession a few months ago. You are literally in 214 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: drug court. Do you know how this looks. It is 215 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: going to be your word a junkie for saccap and 216 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: a court a law who you think is going to 217 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: win that, and then if you lose that at trial, 218 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: it's going to be so much worse for you. I 219 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: can probably get you a plea deal that has no 220 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: jail time but a felony conviction or a felony conviction, 221 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: and I got both those felonies back to back. We'll 222 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: be right back with the War on drug Hi. I'm 223 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,239 Speaker 1: Jason Flom, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts, 224 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: Home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs, 225 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you, our listeners, 226 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: to take part in the survey. Your feedback is going 227 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: to help inform how we make podcasts in the future. 228 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: You're complete and candidate answers will help us continue to 229 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: bring you more insightful and inspiring stories about important topics 230 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,599 Speaker 1: that impact us all. So please go to Lava for 231 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: Good dot com slash survey and participate today. Thank you 232 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: for your support. The War on Drugs PO guests is 233 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is a philanthropic community 234 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: that partners with America's boldest change makers to tackle the 235 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,719 Speaker 1: root causes of our country's biggest problems. Christina Dent is 236 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: one of many entrepreneurs partnering with Stand Together to end 237 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: the War on Drugs, the root cause of so many 238 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: problems and communities across the country. As a foster mom, 239 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: she came into contact with the War on Drugs when 240 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: she saw how it was ripping apart the family she 241 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: worked with. She witnessed how kids were affected, and her 242 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: mothers wanted something better for their families, but didn't have 243 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: the tools to get there themselves. Christina Dent started a 244 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: nonprofit called Ended for Good because she knew there was 245 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: a better solution to help these families. She's working to 246 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: end the war on drugs in Mississippi and build consensus 247 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: around the state to help families struggling with substance abuse 248 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: problems find a different path forward than the one they've 249 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: been given. Stand Together has many more stories like this one, 250 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: as it partners with thousands of change makers who were 251 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: driving solutions in education, healthcare, poverty, and the criminal justice system. 252 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: To learn more about Stand Together their partners, or how 253 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: you can partner will Stand Together, go to Stand Together 254 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: dot org. The definition of addiction is continuing to use 255 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: drugs despite negative consequences. Therefore, laying on additional negative consequences 256 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: does not work. Addiction itself, outside of the sphere of 257 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: criminal law, is already using despite negative consequences. It's causing 258 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: issues at work, it's causing issues in my relationship I 259 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: use anyway, that's addiction. But then the just system coming 260 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: in and say, well, how about if we make it worse, 261 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: will that make it better, and surprisingly, no, no, it 262 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: does not. I had gotten a founy conviction while receiving 263 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: federal financial aid, so that torched my ability to continue 264 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: going to school. I got fired from my job. I 265 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: got an automatic six month license suspension, which was standard 266 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: practice if he were with drugs in your car. But 267 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: that took away my livelihood as I was a pizza 268 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: delivery driver. For the first time in my life, I 269 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: found myself unemployed. So I'm like living in my car, 270 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: staying and broken down RV's with my friends. I just 271 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: descended into the bowels of addiction and the underworld at 272 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: that time, those things that kept me one foot in 273 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: addiction and one foot out because I still saw a 274 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: better way for myself. I lost that one foot out, 275 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: so I jumped in both feet in addiction because what 276 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: was the point. I just remember this one time, I 277 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: lined up three syringes as much heroin as each could hold, 278 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: and I re lined them up in a row, didn't 279 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: even bother trying to find a vein, stuck them right 280 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: in my hip, injected one after the other, and I 281 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: went to lay down on my bed and I really 282 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: hoped I wouldn't wake up, but damn if I always 283 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: woke up. I just didn't care whether I lived or died. 284 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: I was so suicidal. And then I had some inner 285 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: voice shine through and say, hey, this isn't actually life 286 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: you want for yourself, This isn't actually you you want better. 287 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: I was frustricted with my own lack of self control. 288 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: I did not want to keep using as if there 289 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: I was of two minds, a fractured mind warring, and 290 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: so I wanted to remove that element of self control. 291 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: And I wanted someone to make me take my medicine 292 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: for seven days, because the issue with the suboxin is 293 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: I would take it a day or two and then 294 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: I would say, you know, I'll square this. I'm gonna 295 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: do heroin, and I would stop taking it. And I'd 296 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: never taken it multiple days in a row. I was 297 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: never stabilized on this medicine, and I just concocted this 298 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: grand plan of well, in jail, don't make me take it. 299 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: As long as I can get that those seven days stabilized. 300 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: I think from there I'll be good. And so my 301 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: next drug court check in, I walked in with my 302 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: sabo oxen and a letter from my doctor to the 303 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: courts imploring them to keep me on it because it 304 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: was important life saving medication and my written prescription. And 305 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: I walked up to the podium and I asked Judge 306 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: Ryant to take me into custody because I needed a 307 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: fresh start. I needed to be stabilized on my medication. 308 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 1: I volunteered for Joe. I had some notion that jail 309 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: was there to help us. Even after all the life 310 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: I'd lived and being persecuted by the police, prosecuted, I 311 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: still was raised with this the authorities there to protect 312 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: us military brat mentality, and that really permeated deep into 313 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: my subconscious You asked me, now, why would I volunteer 314 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: for jails. It sounds ridiculous. I was obviously incredibly naive 315 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: and stupid, but at the time, you know, the system 316 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: was leaning hard on me, and I thought, okay, what 317 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: if I lean in? And I get into the Multnoma 318 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: County jail that night, and I asked the nurse for 319 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: my suboxon and she laughs in my face and tells 320 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: me that they do not prescribe that medication. And I 321 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: kicked cole Turkey and an open dorm with seventy seven 322 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: women staring at me while I puked into a trash 323 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: can with fluorescent lights that never turned off, and for 324 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: seven days of agony, I had to remind myself that 325 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: I chose that that I did that to myself. This 326 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: was about six eight months after that day, I volunteered 327 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: for jail. My mom died. She was a Air Force 328 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: veteran one hundred percent disabled from her service, and she 329 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: took prescription medication, but she took too many morphine pills 330 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: one night. Whether on purpose or because she had a migraine, 331 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: I will never know. I was supposed to be the 332 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: one that died. I'm a suicidal junkie. But I found 333 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: her and how to call the police, and that meant 334 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: that I got life insurance, her military life insurance, real clever. 335 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: She'd put it into a stipend for me so that 336 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: I didn't get it in a batch. So I got 337 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: like one lump sum thirty thousand dollars. And I thought, 338 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: if I could just buy enough heroine, that all my 339 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: problems would be complete. Like I really only thought, for 340 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: you know, since the time I was like nineteen twenty, 341 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: that my only problem in life was that I didn't 342 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: have enough heroine. And if I could just have enough 343 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: everything would be complete. I was just doing more and 344 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: more heroine, burning through the thirty thousand dollars, realizing, holy shit, 345 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to run out of money within a couple 346 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: of weeks. And it was right in that period that 347 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: my friend Justin texted me, the one who first showed 348 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: me how to smoke heroin of foil that first time 349 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: I overdose. He'd saved me from several other overdoses. Later, 350 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: he texted me looking for a Graham, and he'd left 351 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: his wallet at my mom's house the day before she died. 352 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: When he came over and I'm like, yeah, dude, I 353 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: can sell you a Graham out of my bag, and 354 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: I have your wallet. I can finally give you back 355 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: your wallet. I was so proud of myself because my 356 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: mom had died, I was addicted to heroin, and I 357 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: had kept his wallet safe and I knew where it was. 358 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: I had moved into a trap house, and I still 359 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: had saved his wallet. When you're addicted to heroin, you 360 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: will find these little semblances of normality to latch onto, 361 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: these little moments of responsibility, And so I was so 362 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: proud of myself for having saved his wallet and so 363 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I would sell him the gram out 364 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: of my bag. He came. I sold it to him 365 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: and then I'm like, oh, let me grab your wallet. 366 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: He's like, nah, no, I'll get it next time. I 367 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: gotta go. I was like okay. Then next night he 368 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: texted me again looking for two grams. And I'm sitting there, 369 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: I'm waiting for Justin to come, and the door just 370 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: flies open and it's the swat table and they just 371 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: stick guns in my face and are screaming at me, 372 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: and I think, oh, man, my roommate's in trouble because 373 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: he's the one that sells heroin. And then they read 374 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: the warrant and it was in my name, what me? What? 375 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: I wasn't like selling to support my habit. I didn't shower, 376 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: I didn't leave my house. I didn't need nothing. Come 377 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: to find out that Justin had not texted me that day. 378 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: Was the police pretending to be my dead best friend. 379 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: I was only informed of that while being put in 380 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: handcuffs and being told that I was being arrested for 381 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: drug delivery resulting in death for the overdose death of 382 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: Justin DeLong, a charge that carries a twenty year mandatory 383 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: minimum sentence. Justin had died the night before the night 384 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: that I sold him a Graham. He went home and 385 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: overdosed alone in his bedroom. Justin was one of my 386 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: closest friends, closest and oldest friends, and I knew his sister, 387 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: I knew his family. I was in between panicked and ashamed, 388 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: so I didn't attend the funeral service. His family did 389 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: not want to see me go to prison. They testified 390 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: on my behalf at my sentencing. They had watched him 391 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: struggle with addiction, and they thought that the prosecution was 392 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: cruel because that Justin had been so abused by the 393 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: system while he lived. They were really clear that they 394 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: didn't blame me, and that if I held any guilt, 395 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,719 Speaker 1: that I needed to forgive myself. That was a terrible 396 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: period in my life. And then I find myself in jail, 397 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: and of course you know, I'm detoxing cold turkey because 398 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: despite the fact that jail has been promore friend, they 399 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: never prescribe it. But that is not when I got clean. 400 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: Wish it was. Wish I could say it was not. 401 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: My mom had died six months before, my friend Justin 402 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: had died three months before that, and I was literally 403 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: being prosecuted with his death, which really complicates how to grieve. 404 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: I will say, there's so much heroine in jail. There's 405 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: much more heroine in women's jail than men's jail because 406 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: women have an easier time smuggling in the drug and 407 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: so there is a lot of drugs that come into 408 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: County jail, and I saw absolutely no point and not 409 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: using them. Jail is miserable. My life was objectively miserable, 410 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: and so I saw it escape anywhere that I could. 411 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: I was having issues with self control and I was 412 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: still using. So I went to court and I asked 413 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: the judge to transfer me to Columbia County Jail, which 414 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: I had been to and knew, who had far fewer 415 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: drugs because it's so small. There's a lotless traffic coming in. 416 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: There's only ten women in the norm, and there I 417 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: found an environment that promoted my sobriety and my self 418 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: worth because the deputies were kind and they called me 419 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,239 Speaker 1: by my name and not a number, and they were 420 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: just so respectful. That promoted this mutual respect and kindness 421 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: like I have never seen in a jail or prison 422 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: before or after. And I really credit them with like 423 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: setting me on the course to true recovery and like 424 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: achieving success because they were the first ones who told 425 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: me that I could and that I wasn't just a 426 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 1: piece of shit because I did drugs. And I thought, oh, 427 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: that's right, I'm better than this and I can achieve 428 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: more than I've been achieving. And I never used her again. 429 00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with the war on drugs. Pot 430 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: guess I realized, like, Okay, this really bad thing happened. 431 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: Maybe I can channel this suffering into something positive. And 432 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: I know that sounds wild because I've talked about people 433 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: dying and my mom overdose from morphine, justin overdose, but 434 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: I just I couldn't let it all be meaningless. There 435 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: was so much hurt that I lived and somehow survived. 436 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: I couldn't let it be meaningless, and so I got out. 437 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: I still had twelve thousand dollars left in my bank 438 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: account for my mom's life insurance, so I was able 439 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: to pay cash for my first quarter tuition at Portland 440 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: State University, and I decided I was majoring in public health. 441 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: Even though I didn't really know what that meant, I 442 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: knew it had something to do with the opioid crisis 443 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: and that I wanted to channel my suffering. Then the 444 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: dean of the School of Public Health, doctor David Beingsburg, 445 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: found me. I don't know. I signed up for like 446 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: a coffee with him, and he was like, you're special, 447 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: You're going places, and no one had ever told me 448 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: that before. Born State didn't help me at all with 449 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: the transition. I'd never heard of Google Docs. I annoyed, 450 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: would any of my classmates were talking about I felt 451 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: like I came from Mars. They're talking about like memes 452 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: and music videos and I didn't have the Internet for 453 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: four years. I annoyed. I just felt it goes from Mars. 454 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,479 Speaker 1: But then the dean dean is sitting there and like, 455 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: how can I help you? What do you need and 456 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 1: introducing me to people, and then he invited me to 457 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: speak on a local news town hall and that changed 458 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: my life. We started a group I was like perfectly 459 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: involved in that justice involved student group. There there was 460 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: a few, but because of the nature of criminalization and 461 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: shame and stigma, very few people would I self identify, 462 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: so it's hard to find even the few that did 463 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: exist because I was the only one shouting it from 464 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: the mountaintops. I was sent to prison for my best 465 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: friend's overdose. But then I realized the more I told 466 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: my story, people would come up to me and be like, 467 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: I have a felony too. I was giving people permission. 468 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: It's okay to talk about this. This isn't your fault, 469 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: like this city is broken, not you. You are not 470 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: a bad person because you did a bad thing, and 471 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: especially not just because you did drugs. I just would 472 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: tell my story with anyone who would listen. And so 473 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, they said, hey, they're looking at a 474 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: measure to decriminalize drugs and organ I jumped at it 475 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: because doing nothing, literally not responding at all to substance use, 476 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: would be superior to what we are doing now. So 477 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: Measure one ten, passed by an overwhelming majority the voters 478 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: in November twenty twenty, now possession of small quantities of drugs. 479 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,479 Speaker 1: So for heroin, it's one grammar less is a class 480 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: A violation akin to a traffic citation. It comes with 481 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: one hundred dollar fine that can be waived if you 482 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: complete a screening just essentially, do you have a substance 483 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: use disorder or not? Type screening that will connect you 484 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: to services. What it does is it stops the harm. 485 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: So no longer are we making people worse. We're not 486 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: getting people fired from their jobs. We're not making them 487 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: homeless because they choose to use drugs. So the harm 488 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: has stopped. The healing phase is much more complex after 489 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: we decriminalize drugs. The organ Health Authority was tasked with 490 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: creating the Oversight and Accountability Council that was written into 491 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: the measure as a bunch of people with lived experience 492 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: who were going to drive the ship, unheard of in government. 493 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: I applied and because I was so heavily criminalized for 494 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: my drug possession and then got out of prison to 495 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: major in public health and become a drug policy researcher, 496 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: I was appointed. Successfully. I am a council member. Only 497 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: Measure one to end oversight in Accountability councils called the OEC, 498 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: and we meet several times a week, usually trying to 499 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: get this money out to fund the behavioral health resource 500 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: networks in every single county in the state. We're currently 501 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,719 Speaker 1: trying to get two hundred and seventy million dollars out 502 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: the door. I did the math. I approved thirty six 503 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: million dollars to go out. It's just like, who am 504 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: I to be, like, Yes, here's thirty six million dollars. 505 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: It goes to harm reduction, so that can include syringe exchange, 506 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: n locks, one distribution, some wound care, and drug checking. 507 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: We fund intensive outpatient less intensive outpatient vastly trying to 508 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: ramp up medications for opioduce disorder. So we're funding methode 509 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: sbox and clinics getting method on in sbox and into 510 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: the jails. We're also paying for peer venturing, which is huge, 511 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: and housing. So the point of everything that we're paying 512 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: for as we are giving people better options, and with 513 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: better options come better choices. Why do we have mass 514 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: incarceration at the same time as the worst overdose crisis 515 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: in human history. That's because everything we're doing is making 516 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: it worse. We are doing everything so wrong, okay, and 517 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: so even our best public health messaging does not reach 518 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: people we have pushed into stigmatize them so badly, and 519 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: then so we push them really far away, and we 520 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: put all these barriers in between productive, normal society and 521 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: their drug use, and we make it almost insurmountable for 522 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: them to come back. Oh, okay, you don't want to 523 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: be living in a tent smoking fatable anymore. Well, too bad, 524 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: you have seven felony convictions, outstanding court fees, you know, like, 525 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: oh you can't get housing, Oh no, you can't get 526 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: this job. And it's like people who need more help 527 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: because they've been struggling with addiction and I just mean 528 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: the actual psychological effects of addiction. That's a person who 529 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: needs more help. But because of our criminal justice system, 530 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: they get infinitely more barriers. And then we wonder why 531 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: people don't get better. See, when people are presented with 532 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: better options, they make better choices, and as you restrict 533 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: their options, the choice is worse. There's nothing about using 534 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: drugs that inherently makes your criminal. It's not like using 535 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: oxyquotum comes with that. A side effect on the label 536 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: is shoplifting, as if every other facet of your character 537 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: decays and you only become a drug user, which is 538 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: synonymous with you know, sinner criminal. Okay, that is not real. 539 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: Drugs do not making me a criminal or engage in 540 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: criminal conduct. But a funny thing happens is if you 541 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: believe that it's true, and then you create laws that 542 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: respond as if drug use were criminal, that actually promotes 543 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: people into criminal activity. That really destroys hope for the future, 544 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: and everyone needs hope for the future. I remember one 545 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: of the times in treatment I was writing hip hop 546 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: songs to myself and there's this line. It's always told 547 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: I had so much potential, but now that shit is 548 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: inconsequence because I already had felonies and there was just 549 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: no hope held the whole world in my palm, mailted 550 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: down into the spoon, shot in my arms, something like that, 551 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: and that is really illustrative for how I felt about 552 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: what my future would hold. And as I sit before 553 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: you today, I have changed organ law multiple times. I 554 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: regularly work with my United States senator try to change 555 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: federal law. It doesn't work. How so far it hasn't worked, 556 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: but that's because our senate has great lund. I have 557 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: a career that I didn't know existed, founded around the 558 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: fact that I have been to prison okay, and that 559 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: I was addicted to heroin. Those are my primary too 560 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: job qualifications. I have been able to channel all of 561 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: the hurt and the harm and the suffering that I 562 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: lifted through that was imposed on us, that we got 563 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: ourselves into both types, and I try to create a 564 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: better world for the people that came after me already. 565 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: I know, in this state of organ no other Oregonian 566 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: will experience what my friends and I did. Every single 567 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: friend I lost to overdose to heroin overdose was incarcerated repeatedly. 568 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: What are we doing? If we're not doing this to 569 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: save lives? What are we doing? My success was entirely 570 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: despite the War on drugs. In fact, the War on 571 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: drugs tried to crush me. I am the exception, I 572 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: am not the rule, and that is the problem. Wow, 573 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: So we're back that last line, I'm the exception, not 574 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: the rule, and I think we've seen the rule play 575 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: out in the War on drugs when you look at 576 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: the numbers, and I hope that we've put some faces 577 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: to this war and the casualties of this war and 578 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: what it normally does. It's amazing that we were able 579 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: to see Morgan face to face because there's a very 580 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: strong likelihood, you know, there's a lot of different ways 581 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: that could have gone where or we would have never 582 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: known her and she just would have been in another 583 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: casualty of this war. And I think it makes a 584 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: lot of sense now if you've kind of gone on 585 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: this journey with us, why we saved Morgan for last 586 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: because it touches on everything everything we talked about throughout 587 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: this entire series. I think she just had a no 588 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: story there. Now. I thought it was so profound that 589 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: she said, every single one of my friends that died 590 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: of an overdose was incarcerated multiple times. And so our 591 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: government who says that the entire purpose of this war 592 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: on drugs is to get people, is to remove the 593 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: scores of drugs and get people clean in our country, 594 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: because that's good for our country, and that's a good 595 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: goal for everyone to have. It actually like exacerbates the problem. 596 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: And you have these people here under your control, and 597 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: we actually put them in a worse spot. And she 598 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: just keeps saying, what are we doing? And sometimes when 599 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: I'm doing my work, I say that to myself quite 600 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: a bit as well. It's just like, what the fuck 601 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: are we doing? Guys. That's just what stuck with me 602 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: in that episode and properly throughout this entire series. Yeah, 603 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: and this has been a hell of a journey that 604 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: I've been on with you, you know, just to this episode, 605 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: ten man, this is the last episode. We started this 606 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: thing a little while ago, and I just hope that 607 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: everybody that came along with us on the journey learned 608 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: as much as I felt like I learned or was 609 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: able to get a little more understanding into why things 610 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: are the way they are and that they really don't 611 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: have to be that way. You know, we might need 612 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: to come back. We might need to come back. We're 613 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: doing because we might need to bring a season two 614 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: back around just to like, you know what I mean, 615 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: we got to keep applying pressure. I can't ease up. 616 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: You can't ease up. We did a half court press. 617 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: We might as well go full court press. Force some turnovers, 618 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Season two more solutions. Yeah, 619 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: that's what I'm guaranteeing. And they're and they're out there. 620 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: The playbook is there, Like we actually do have the playbook, 621 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 1: and I want, you know, season two to, like you said, 622 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: like expose a lot of these success stories, like the 623 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: solutions that we're seeing. You know, we touched on a 624 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: little bit of you know, places like you know, Switzerland 625 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: where they're you know, actually treating this as a health 626 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: issue and some of the other places what Portugal's doing. 627 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: And maybe we can find in the budget to allow 628 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: you know, Clayton and I just go on like a 629 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: European vacation for a few months and recording out there 630 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: and we'll see that works. Yeah, Bali, Hawaii, everywhere. The 631 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: Maldives have an eximate drug program. Yeah, their forfeiture laws 632 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: are a little suspect, but we're gonna get there. Their 633 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: banking systems solid though. Yeah, we're gonna have to go 634 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: down yeah, um yeah. But there is actually like these 635 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: glimmers of hope and solutions and people doing things from 636 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: a big, you know, from a countrywide standpoint, and then 637 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,919 Speaker 1: just communities figuring this out. And like we talked about 638 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: like just being just being a human being and showing 639 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: empathy towards someone and like the successes that can come 640 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: from that. And so I'd love to show a lot 641 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: more of that to kind of outweigh that playbook. Now 642 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: that we've brought kind of a lot of the problems, 643 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: and now let's season two. Let's bring a lot more 644 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: of the solutions. Yes, I'm with it. Make sure you 645 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: followed the War on Drugs podcast so you don't miss 646 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 1: any new episodes or any of our quick fixed bonus content. 647 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. Executive producers for War on Drugs 648 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: are Jason Flam and Kevin Wurtis. Senior producer is Michael Epstein. 649 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: This episode was edited by Julia Dewin, Michael Epstein, and 650 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: Nick Massetti. Associate producer, Sound design and mix and mastering 651 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,800 Speaker 1: by Nick Massetti. Additional production by Jeff Cleburne and Anna mcintee. 652 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: Be sure to followed the show on Instagram, Twitter, and 653 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: Facebook at Lava for Good. You can follow Greg on 654 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: Twitter at Greg Gloude and you can follow Clayton English 655 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Clayton English. The War on Drugs is 656 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association The 657 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: Signal Company Number One. I'm your host, Clayton English, and 658 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,399 Speaker 1: I'm Greg Glad and thanks for listening to the War 659 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: on Drugs podcast. M