WEBVTT - Jupiter the Destroyer, Part 2 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.280 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:15.160 My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.200 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.880 we're back with part two of our discussion of Jupiter 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.560 the Destroyer. In the last episode, we ended up talking 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.880 about some of the myths of Zeus and Jupiter, Zeus's 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.560 war against the Titans, and how that related to some 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.920 ideas in astrophysics about how an early forming Jupiter in 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.840 the solar nebula of our of our young Solar system 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:41.600 may have played a very important role in the destruction 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.199 of early forming super Earth's in the inner Solar System, 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.320 leading to or clearing the way for the eventual creation 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.840 of rocky planets like the Earth we live on today. 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.040 So that last episode was kind of it was kind 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.960 of a mash up. We had we had some planetary science, 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.920 we had some mythology. It's like we had two turntable 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.640 and uh, and we had two different records and we 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.119 kind of mixed and nashed them both. Uh. So we're 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.360 we're kind of like your DJs. We're well, we we're 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.720 your hosts, except no substitutes. Uh. And we're gonna have 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.160 more of the same in this episode. We're gonna have 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.040 plenty of planetary science, but we're also going to have mythology. So, uh, 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.880 if you love both, stay tuned, because you're gonna get 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.880 everything you love. If you lean more towards one direction 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.080 or the other, well it's still hang on because we're 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:29.960 gonna take you on a ride. But if you're only 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.480 interested in when we talk about the Texas Chainsaw Massacre 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:34.759 movies and stick around anyway because who knows what will 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.320 come up, well that that movie also is astronomical and 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.720 its own wise, that's true. So maybe I thought we 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.600 should start just by doing a brief refresher on one 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.160 of the studies we talked about in the last episode 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.240 because it kind of ties into some of the stuff 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.040 I'm gonna talk about right after. Um So, one of 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:53.120 the studies we looked at last time was published in 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.600 in p N A. S. And it was by Constantine 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:00.800 Batigan and Greg Laughlin, and it's called Jupiter Decisive Role 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.040 in the Inner Solar System's Early evolution. And the rough 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.480 outline is that the authors here argue that they put 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.520 together a simulation that assumes a version of what's known 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:14.920 as the grand Attack scenario, and that's where in the 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.200 early solar nebula. So when the Solar System is first forming, 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.480 it's this big disc of gas and dust all swirling 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.480 around this newly forming Sun. When that's going on, a 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:30.760 young Jupiter migrated from somewhere around five astronomical units out 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.800 in radius from the Sun into about one point five 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:38.079 astronomical units and then reversed course and went back out 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.720 to a larger orbital radius when it was pulled outward 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.639 by the gravitational influence of Saturn. And the authors here 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.480 right quote, we propose that the primordial nebula driven process 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.040 responsible for retention of Jupiter and Saturn at large orbital 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:56.560 radii and sculpting Mars low mass, is also responsible for 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:01.240 clearing out the Solar system's innermost region. So, like we 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:03.960 talked about last time, this would be wiping out these 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:08.080 early forming super Earth's or miny neptunes that were forming 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.800 near the Sun and thus making room and freeing up 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.760 some materials for rocky planets like Earth and Venus to form. 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.040 And if you remember the details we talked about last time, 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.200 this would have happened according to these authors here via 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.880 a what they call a collisional cascade. So Jupiter's inward 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.600 migration would hurl all of these planetesimals into um what 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.720 they call mean motion resonances low order mean motion residences, 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:39.160 shepherding and exciting their orbits, so basically just causing chaos 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.920 in the inner Solar System where things would smash into 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.960 each other and then ultimately spiral into the Sun and 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.440 be vaporized down there in the bottom of the Solar System. 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.160 And then finally they write, in this scenario, the Solar 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:55.160 systems terrestrial planets formed from the gas starved mass depleted 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.800 debris that remained after the primary period of dynamical evolution. 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.000 So under this scenario, it is the gravitational influence from 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:08.040 a coalescing Saturn that finally pulls Jupiter back out of 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:12.360 the fray back into the outer Solar System. But I 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.280 wanted to think about another way that gas giants like 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.880 Jupiter and Saturn, or like if you imagine another Solar 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.719 system somewhere else in the galaxy, multiple jupiters can interact 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:27.960 with one another in catastrophic ways that have major influence 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.240 on the other planets in that star system. Because going 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.479 to the mythological analogy. One Zeus or one Jupiter is 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:38.440 bad enough. You've got a couple. You're really running into trouble. Wow, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.680 they're not going to tolerate each other. That's right, though. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.159 It is funny that literally in our Solar system, if 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.240 you look at the mythological counterparts of the three the 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:51.039 first three outer planets you get to after the asteroid belt, 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.280 you've got Jupiter, you got Saturn, and then you got 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.480 Ranas and there if you look at their mythological counterparts, 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.600 each one ascending out there is the father of the 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.800 other who was defeated by the Sun. So Jupiter or 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:08.200 Zeus defeated Chronus, which is Saturn, and dethroned him, throw 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.320 him into Tartarus. But Chronus previously the Titan had defeated 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.200 Oranas or Uranus by castrating him and throwing his genitals 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.839 into the ocean. Yeah. So like if you've been to throne, 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.000 you get pushed further out of the solar hierarchy. Yeah, 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.240 I guess so. Now, now that's an interesting question, which 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.840 is more like Tartarus being cast into the Sun like 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:30.880 these early super earths may have been, or being cast 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.000 farther out into a greater orbital radius where you're you're 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.560 very cold and very lonely. I guess I go with 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.000 the cold and lonely uh interpretation more again, just in 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:45.000 terms of thinking about what mythological punishments would be, like, 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.039 I tend to imagine, uh, the prison of the Titans 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:53.360 as being cold and lonesome. But anyway, I wanted to, uh, 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:57.680 now now talk about the idea of Jupiter's going eccentric 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.760 and UH usually the word centric, how do we use that? 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.359 We use the word eccentric to mean weird, but in 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.960 kind of a harmless way, like it's the nice version 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.520 of weird, or the or the at least the rich 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:14.320 version of weird, right right, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:16.880 know exactly what you mean by that. But now in 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:20.200 this case, this would be uh eccentric in a way 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.240 that is, that is not at all harmless and potentially 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.720 could be world ending. Uh. So I wanted to look 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.280 at a blog post by an American astrophysicist living in 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.719 France named Sean Raymond, who I wanted to bring this 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.600 up because I think reading his blog on his website 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.560 was one of the reasons I ended up wanting to 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.000 do this pair of episodes about Jupiter. I was originally 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.760 reading his website because he was one of the authors 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:49.200 of a study about moons of moons that I talked 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.520 about for an episode of The Artifact, where I was 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.000 saying like, like, how many levels of orbits can you 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.640 go down? You know, the the so the our our 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:00.200 son orbits the center of the Milky Way galaxy, and 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.600 then the Earth orbits the Sun, and then the moon 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.440 orbits the Earth. But could the moon have its own moon? 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.080 And it turns out the answer is yes, there's nothing 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.160 in physics that prevents moons from having moons. But of course, 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.280 every every step you go down that ladder of orbits 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.720 within orbits, the maximum size of the orbiting object gets 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.720 smaller and smaller, and if you include really small stuff, 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.120 I think moons of moons can have moons. But anyway, 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.080 through that, I ended up reading some posts on this 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.440 guy's website. So he's a professor of astrophysics at the 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.040 University of Bordeaux in France, and his blog is fun 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:38.120 he he he sometimes like writes poems about astrophysics, and 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.160 that's weird stuff on there. But there was this one 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.360 post that I thought was really interesting and got me 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.560 thinking about this topic. And reading other stuff about it, 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:49.120 and it was a post called how planets die when 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.880 good Jupiters go bad, And the gist of this post 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.920 here is about how planets like Jupiter have the potential 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:01.320 to destroy the Solar systems that they dwell within and 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.800 in other planetary systems around other stars in the galaxy. 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.240 There is evidence that gas giants like Jupiter have indeed 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:12.920 already destroyed other planets in in their solar systems. Now, 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:14.640 of course, as we talked about in the last episode, 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.760 Jupiter is the largest planet in our Solar system. It's 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.480 more than three hundred times more massive than Earth. What 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.720 was it was like three hundred and seventeen times as 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.280 massive as Earth or something, I mean, just huge. And 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.360 of course the Sun is the largest gravitational influence in 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.360 our Solar system, but Jupiter is second in that regard, 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.040 and Jupiter has more effects on what happens to the 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.120 rest of the objects in the Solar System than you 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.199 might imagine. Raymond talks about some stuff that we didn't 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.440 really get into in the last episode, Like one of 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.520 the things he mentions is that Jupiter probably would have 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:51.680 blocked large icy bodies from the outer Solar System from 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.880 invading the inner Solar System when the Solar System was 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.320 first forming. It would have cleared this large gap in 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.199 the solar nebula disc that was forming around the early 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.400 Sun UH, and with its gravity it would prevent large 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.440 icy objects from migrating inwards. Of course, we already talked 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.199 about that Batigan and Laughlin idea that if it's correct, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.680 during Jupiter's grand tach or the movement in and then 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.439 out again, UH, it would have had these catastrophic implications 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.600 for early forming super Earth's or many Neptunes close to 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:26.240 the Sun through this collisional cascade UH and would have 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:28.959 allowed small rocky planets like Earth to take shape in 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.600 the aftermath. But Jupiter also we should remember, and this 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.320 is one thing we're gonna look at in several different 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:39.840 ways today. Jupiter plays a major role in influencing what 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:44.160 kinds of space objects crash into Earth and at what 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.960 rate and at what velocity, Because to read from Raymond 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:53.480 here quote, Jupiter's gravity determines how comets enter the Inner 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.439 Solar System and how long they spend near the planets 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:01.040 with the potential to crash into Earth before launching them 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:05.600 into interstellar space. And this has implications both ways. So 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.000 it means that Jupiter can act as a kind of destroyer, 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.240 flinging objects in our direction in a dangerous way, but 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.760 Jupiter can also act as a kind of protector, shepherding 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.920 objects away from Earth and keeping us safe. And so 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.440 Jupiter's effect on the movements of space objects in the 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.440 inner Solar System, like asteroids and especially comets, I think 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.800 will have powerful effects on things like the water contents 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.200 of Earth and the biological development of Earth, which will 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.719 come back to as we go on. But coming back 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.880 to the idea of eccentric jupiters now, I mentioned in 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.760 the last episode that sometimes when we look out at 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.679 other stars in our galaxy, we can see that they 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:50.000 have large exoplanets, large gas giants in very eccentric orbits. 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.000 The orbits of most of the planets in our Solar 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.520 system are nearly circular. They're not perfectly circular, but they're 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.760 pretty close. I mean, you know, roughly circular. If you 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.280 look at the orbit of some comets, though it is 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:06.080 a completely different story. There are comets that orbit the 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:12.200 Sun in these incredibly squashed, squeezed out oval trajectories. Uh, 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:16.719 and these orbits that deviate from near circularity are called eccentric, 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.720 and of course the more squashed out they get, the 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.640 more highly eccentric they are. So if you're trying to 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.440 picture it, you can think of a more eccentric orbit 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.760 is like a rubber band being stretched out instead of 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.679 allowed to just like sit slack in a circle. And 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.920 in fact, exoplanet research reveals that around other stars in 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.640 the galaxy there are gas giants like Jupiter that have 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:44.000 orbits more like these comets. So imagine a Jupiter or 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.480 a Saturn with a highly eccentric orbit more like a 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.560 stretched out rubber band. These types of planets exist, and 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.720 the question is, well, how does that happen? Well, Raymond 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:59.440 discusses one way when gas giants act upon one another 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:04.640 in dangerous ways. So large gas giants exert gravitational influence 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.439 not only on commets, not only on the moons that 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.280 orbit them, but also on one another. You know, if 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.440 you have like two jupiters orbiting a star, they will 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:18.439 have influence on the paths that they each take. Uh. 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.200 Remember thinking again about the way that a Saturn may 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.240 have pulled Jupiter back out of the inner Solar system. 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.080 According to the Grand tach hypothesis. So, if you have 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:31.840 two gas giants that are affecting one another gravitationally, it 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:36.960 can throw their orbits off course. And sometimes these gravitational 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:41.840 interactions can even put them into orbital patterns uh, such 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.840 that one gas giant gets gravitationally ejected out of the 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.880 Solar System by the gravitational influence of the other like 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.480 it does sort of a gravity slingshot, like we might 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.080 do with a with one of our space probes, but 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.559 on a planet, and just like throws it way out 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.280 of there, and then the other one remains. But in 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:03.079 this stretch out eccentric orbit. And as you might well imagine, 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.640 these gravitational disturbances in the orbits of gas giants can 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:10.679 have horrible effects on the planets nearby. So if there 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.800 are earthlike inner planets, in one of these scenarios, they 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.880 tend to get cast into the pit of Tartarus UH. 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.920 And this could actually this could be either of the 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.720 Tartarus scenarios we were talking about earlier. In the closest 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.320 thing to a literal sense, right, they either get cast 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.440 way out into nowhere into space, or they get thrown 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.960 into the Sun or destroyed by collisions, possibly with gas 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.800 giants themselves, or with other rocky planets or planetesimals, and 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.560 then those the debris from those collisions can spiral into 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.920 the Sun or they get ejected and then just plunge 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.720 forever into the void. Yeah, it's the thing about the amokies, 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.560 they tend to they tend to throughout the old order 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:51.520 in a place it was something new. You know. This 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.800 reminds me of one of the possible explanations for Umu Mua, 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.640 that object, interstellar object that we did a couple of 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:03.079 episodes about that. Some people, I think, probably very prematurely, 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.120 we're trying to say was an alien probe, but I 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.200 don't think there's good evidence of that. But one of 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.760 the ideas about what this object probably is because it 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.920 had strange characteristics, like it's kind of elongated and seemed 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.439 to be moving in a kind of tumbling motion. One 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.640 of the ideas is that it is part of an 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.120 object that was destroyed or rejected from its host star 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:26.440 system by a gravitational disturbance like this. Now, most of 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:30.520 the time, when a Jupiter turns murderous, when when Jupiter, 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.640 you know, when when his hand flashes with power, as 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:37.200 it says in the in hesi. It's the agony um 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.200 when a gas giant goes rogue and destroys the other planets. 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.080 Most of the time it happens early in the formation 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.480 of the Solar System, shortly after most of the material 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.840 and the nebula disc is dissipated and absorbed by newly 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.960 forming planets. And the reasoning here is that without the 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:57.880 stabilizing presence of this cloud like disk, a jupiter like 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.960 planet can start going off the rails very quickly. But 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:05.360 sometimes a gas giant can turn into the destroyer. Its 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.720 hand can flash with power later in its lifespan, for example, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.920 if its orbit is disturbed by external influence. An example 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.200 here could be another star passes too close to the 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:21.880 Solar System and this, uh, this causes gravitational disturbances, throws 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.760 the orbit of the jupiter like planet off course, and 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.320 then the same thing happens. It just it starts this 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.800 cascading series of effects on the orbits of other planets. 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.200 And you know, many of these inner rocky planets are 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.360 just destroyed. They're they're sent down into the Sun. Well, 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.960 you know, if we're to to to draw in comparison 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.280 to maybe not literal the literal mythology, but just sort 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.640 of the nature of mythologies and belief I'm reminded of 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:51.320 what happens when a foreign um religion or foreign deity 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.200 uh comes too close to an established religion and deity. 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.800 You know, it can also result in a fair amount 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:02.840 of disorder uh and a realigning of the order of things. Yes, 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:05.560 the realignment of a pantheon in the presence of a 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.880 syncretism right when we emerge to religions together. If you 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.360 merge to two stars gravity is too close to one another, 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:17.320 this can definitely realign things and possibly result in a monotheism. Yeah, 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.920 more on that in a bit. So, Yeah, I do 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.320 want to be clear, we're not saying there's any reason 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.400 to think that this is likely to happen to our 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.400 solar system anytime soon like that that that's not the 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.640 implication here, But it is scary to imagine that it 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:33.040 does sometimes happen around other stars, and at least is 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.320 possible in theory that you know, you can have this 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.560 influence from some kind of external object, another star passes 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.400 too close or something. This can nudge the orbit of 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:46.080 a previously pretty stable Jupiter like planet, leading to a 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.240 cascade of effects like we just talked about, and then 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.000 the Earth like planets have an appointment with the wicker Man. 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.840 And uh. One interesting thing that Raymond mentions in this 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.240 blog post is he does some rough calculations and guesses 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.560 that about half of the stars in the Milky Way 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:07.280 galaxy with gas planets have annihilated the rocky planets through 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.880 a process like this. And I remember that it's much 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.640 more likely for to happen early during formation, when when 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.720 the disk is is first sorting itself out, but it can, 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.000 in some rare cases happen later. And I guess this 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.800 all comes down to the fact that we have a 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.760 Jupiter and we still exist. So it looks like in 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.280 in some sense, we're one of the lucky ones. But 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.280 it's also true that the influence of Jupiter or gas 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.760 giants in general, especially Jupiter in our case, doesn't stop there. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:40.080 I mean, the influence on Jupiter on the history of 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:45.160 the planet Earth appears to be pervasive. I was looking 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:50.960 at one study by Alisa V. Quintana, Thomas Barclay, William J. Baruki, 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:55.080 Jason f Row, and Johnny Chambers from the Astrophysical Journal 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.840 called the Frequency of Giant Impacts on earthlike worlds, and 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.400 I was reading some write ups of this, and basically 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.200 these researchers did some simulations of what happens in different 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.720 types of Solar system configurations where you have a Jupiter present, 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:11.760 or where you don't have a Jupiter present, where you 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.760 have multiple jupiters, and their simulations revealed that in general, 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:20.000 gas giants like Jupiter have complicated effects on rocky inner 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:24.479 planets like Earth. So young Jupiter, they think probably flung 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.560 material into the cores of newly forming rocky planets when 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.359 the Solar System was young, and this would have helped 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:35.320 planets like Earth come together faster than rocky planets in 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.959 a Solar system without a nearby gas giant, but at 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:43.080 the same time, by hoarding materials to themselves, gas giants 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.600 limit the number of rocky planets that form around a star. 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.000 So if you have a star without a planet like Jupiter, 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.840 it can have way more rocky planets out there um 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.880 And then if you don't have any nearby gas giants, 0:18:56.240 --> 0:19:00.000 young rocky planets are subjected to a much longer period 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.920 it of early bombardment, where they're just constantly being hit 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.639 with impacts from space by smaller objects from the solar 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.560 nebula cloud, and a planet like Jupiter makes that cloud 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:16.399 disappear faster and thus makes the early bombardment period last 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.959 a shorter span of time. But then again, you can 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.920 also look at ways that a planet like Jupiter ends 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:26.919 up accelerating larger objects like comets into the Inner Solar 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.719 System and controlling how long they stay there in the 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.719 Inner Solar System. Uh. And of course those things can 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.479 lead to impacts later on down the line that affect 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.919 Earth life. So Jupiter is once again sort of protecting 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.400 and attacking in tandem. Yeah. I guess the relationships between 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.520 humans and God's they tend to be a little bit unhealthy. 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.480 But then again, I mean there there are reasons. I 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.080 guess what we've gone through here kind of uh, you know, 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.679 justifies the ways of God demand uh to some extent, 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.840 thank or Rob. I don't know about you, but I 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:09.360 am ready to mount an apologia for Jupiter pluvious. Yeah, 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.000 let's do it. Let's let's talk Jupiter the God a 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.560 bit more. Um. Again, I think this comparison between the 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.160 planet Jupiter and the god Jupiter is is increasingly apt 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.440 the more you look at it. Uh. And in this episode. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.680 We're talking a good deal. I mean, we're still talking 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:28.720 about Jupiter the destroyer and Jupiter um of of passionate 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.680 lashing out against a humanity, but but also Jupiter the protector, 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.240 Jupiter the Lord of Earth, because he enforces his order 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.760 upon it and he is in many ways its protector, 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.200 and he was also expressly stated to be the protector 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:46.439 of the Roman state. The White Ox was his favorite 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.400 sacrifice and it could afford an entire year's protection, uh 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:55.480 from the Lord of the gods. And he probably took 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.639 this sort of thing seriously, seeing as how he was 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.399 also the god of oaths and treaties, kind of a 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.639 rules guy. Yeah, yeah, so you know, he's lawful. Whatever 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.720 else he is, he's he's lawful. Uh So, I was, well, 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.480 maybe he's the emblem of lawfulness to others. I don't know, 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:14.800 does he have to follow the laws himself? Well, I mean, 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.280 he's he's in are in a tough spot, like if 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:20.879 you can't, who are you going to report him to? Write? Uh? 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.919 I was reading The Imperial Ideology of Rome and the 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:30.040 Principalities and Powers in Romans eight thirty one through thirty 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.440 nine by Sung Cho Hong in Scripture and Interpretation from 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.000 two thousand and eight, and Home points out that imperial 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:40.040 Roman propaganda expressly stated that the safety of the entire 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:43.199 human race lay in the hands of mighty Jupiter. And 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:46.320 this is a point pressed by Cicero, among others. And 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:50.280 I believe in particularly in on the ends of Good 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.359 and Evil. I want to read a quote here from it, uh, 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.399 and this is not I want to stress that Cicero 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:58.320 goes into a lot more detail about all this, and 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.200 he's he's crafting a much greater point uh than this. 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.840 This is just a fragment. But he does a right 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.440 or he does say quote when we call Jupiter all 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.280 powerful and all good, and likewise, when we speak of 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:14.720 him as the salutary God, the hospitable God, or as state, 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.600 or we mean it to be understood that the safety 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.879 of men is under his protection. This reminds me of 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:24.399 like when when presidents of the United States will say, like, 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:28.359 the president's first responsibility is to keep America safe. This 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:30.640 seems like a very close analogy. It's just like, first 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:32.919 of all, I am I am the daddy, and it 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.199 is it is all protection from me. Yeah, So this 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.760 seems to be again Cicero's saying all other things in 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:43.000 this work, uh, I mean additional things. But this seems 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:45.760 to be like a major talking point for just Roman 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.320 propaganda in general. But so there's the thing that's kind 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:51.080 of interesting about Jupiter that I think we would recognize 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:56.320 as commons say, in like Indian religion, the gods can 0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:01.040 have multiple manifestations or faces. Yes to the Romans didn't 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:04.359 exactly have one Jupiter. They had multiple aspects of Jupiter. 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:09.240 Now sometimes these are referred to more as uh as epithets, 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:13.040 you know, just a just different descriptions of of Jupiter. 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:15.960 But ultimately, I think the line between the two, you know, 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:18.320 you can see where it enters a gray area, like 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:22.280 if you're just describing different properties of the same being, 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:24.600 you know, it's it's only a short hop and a 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:29.800 jump to having different, uh different you know, beings entirely. 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:33.520 You know, in the Christian tradition, you see, you see 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:36.160 some of this right because on one hand, you it's 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:38.280 what you can talk about like God the Father, and 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:40.960 you can talk about like different divisions of the same being. 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:43.919 But on the other hand, you see throughout you know, 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:48.679 Christian history a tendency to want to say focus on 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:52.439 said that the feminine aspects of Christ uh in you know, 0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:56.679 certainly in in visual representation, but also then embodying different 0:23:56.720 --> 0:24:00.119 ideas of what Christ was, and then that may be 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:03.960 um stamped down out of fear of heresy, the idea 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:06.360 that if people keep going in this direction, it will 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:10.800 butt off into an alternative Jesus. So you can you 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:12.960 can tell how how the sort of thing can lead 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:16.840 to the division um even at the same time, it's 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:19.840 kind of like saying, okay, we have all these instead 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:22.800 of having just a dozen gods, we could have maybe 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:24.680 have um we could you know, still have other gods, 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:26.520 but we could also have just like a dozen different 0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:31.240 versions or different um incarnations of the same being. And 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:33.880 that's kind of what you see with Jupiter here. Yeah, 0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:38.359 the Romans had an idea of what we now call superstition. 0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:41.480 You know that comes from a Roman idea meaning basically 0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:44.800 being too religious. Because picking up off what you were 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:47.199 just saying, there is a pattern I think throughout the 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:50.880 religions of the world where when people get incredibly invested 0:24:50.880 --> 0:24:53.520 in their religion, like very passionate about it, they are 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:59.160 prone more often to to religious innovation. And religious innovation 0:24:59.520 --> 0:25:02.560 can lea to you know, you start really focusing on 0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:05.680 maybe one aspect of an existing God or something, maybe 0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:07.439 that becomes a new God, and then you've got a 0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:10.359 new cult, and that that new cult could maybe undermine 0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:13.320 things that came before. Now, there was in the Roman Empire, 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:16.080 while the Romans were incredibly tyrannical, there was a kind 0:25:16.080 --> 0:25:19.040 of weird religious pluralism there where there there could you know, 0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:21.080 you could have a lot of different kinds of religious 0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:23.159 beliefs in the Roman Empire and it would be mostly 0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:26.520 okay as long as you weren't causing trouble. But there's 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:30.760 always I think a certain fear of religious innovation stemming 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:34.359 from too much interpretive interest in the nature of God's 0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:40.000 in religious matters among the existing religious authorities. That makes sense, Yeah, yeah, totally. 0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:42.879 Um so, so I know I was reading all this, 0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:46.520 it didn't It did raise an interesting question for me, Like, 0:25:46.920 --> 0:25:49.160 given all these different aspects of Jupiter, and I'll get 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:52.000 into what they are here in a minute. Uh, you know, 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:54.520 the fact that Jupiter had his own priests and that 0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:58.480 Romans tended towards syncretism, which we already mentioned. This is 0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:02.119 the combining of different theological ideas like, instead of hearing 0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:05.200 about a new God, uh, for instance, in a territory 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:08.040 that you have absorbed into your empire, instead of saying, okay, 0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:10.200 that God's out. Wait whatever you're doing to that God, 0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:13.760 forget it, instead saying, well, actually that God is part 0:26:13.760 --> 0:26:16.600 of our pantheon, or that God is actually Jupiter, that 0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:18.560 sort of thing. Well, I mean God, look at the 0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:22.879 way that the Romans essentially just adopted almost wholesale, originally 0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:26.560 the mythology of the Greeks. Yeah. So so, given given this, 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:30.040 and given that the situation with the different aspects of Jupiter, um, 0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:32.840 I was wanting do do we see in this at 0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:36.399 least a movement toward monotheism because that, of course is 0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:39.000 one of the things about the Roman Empire is that 0:26:39.280 --> 0:26:43.280 it eventually it becomes a Christian empire. There's this movement 0:26:43.320 --> 0:26:47.320 towards monotheistic Christian belief. Well, I don't know if this 0:26:47.480 --> 0:26:50.200 helps with the point you're developing, but the but the 0:26:50.240 --> 0:26:53.159 secular biblical historian Bart Irman, who's a previous guest on 0:26:53.200 --> 0:26:54.919 the show, He was on the show last year. He's 0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:59.760 got a book about why Christianity eventually overtook the Roman Empire, 0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:02.720 and uh, and his theory on that, which seems very 0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:05.399 reasonable to me, is that the main thing going for 0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:08.760 Christianity is that, unlike all of the other religions in 0:27:08.800 --> 0:27:10.320 the Roman Empire at the time, or most of the 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.680 other religions in the Roman Empire at the time, Christianity 0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:17.240 was evangelical and it was exclusive, so they were trying 0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:21.680 to convert people to it. And unlike the existing Roman religions, 0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:25.800 you couldn't add other gods into Christianity, or you weren't 0:27:25.800 --> 0:27:28.400 supposed to. I mean, some people probably did, but mostly 0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:31.000 Christians were preaching that no, once you're a Christian, you 0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:33.480 can only believe in Jesus and you have to forget 0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:36.240 all these other gods. And over time those dynamics led 0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:39.000 to effects where Christianity would just grow and grow and 0:27:39.000 --> 0:27:41.800 it would push out because every new Christian wasn't just 0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:45.280 like a pagan adopting one additional god. But now like 0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:47.520 they weren't a pagan anymore, they want you weren't to 0:27:47.560 --> 0:27:51.320 lay allowed to keep your old gods as well, right, yeah, yeah, 0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:53.040 Because I think even though if we're looking at this, 0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:55.640 we're thinking, okay, you're you're going to the temple, that's 0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:58.560 just a Jupiter. You're worshiping Jupiter, maybe in different aspects, 0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:00.680 but you're you're you're pretty much folk sing on him. 0:28:00.760 --> 0:28:03.080 Even if you did not worship any of the other 0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:06.080 gods in the Roman pantheon, that wouldn't be monotheism. That 0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:08.919 would be what is called hino theism, which is the 0:28:09.000 --> 0:28:12.680 adherence to one particular god out of many. So saying like, yeah, 0:28:12.680 --> 0:28:15.040 all these other gods they're they're fine, they exist, but 0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:17.399 this is my guy, this is my gal. Yeah, and 0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:19.240 that that was common in the Roman Empire, that you 0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:21.760 believe in the other gods, and you would maybe respect 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:23.920 the other gods, but you might have like a personal 0:28:24.040 --> 0:28:27.359 favorite god who you were really devoted to. Yeah. Like 0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:30.560 even in that work on Cistero that I was quoting earlier, Um, 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:33.600 he's he's mentioning adherence to Jupiter. But he's also in 0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:37.480 the same work mentioning adherence to smaller household gods. So yeah, 0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:39.360 you can you can see that if if suddenly you're like, no, 0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:41.560 you can't keep your household gods, you have to pretty 0:28:41.600 --> 0:28:45.000 much abandon the old way, uh and and and take 0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:46.880 to this new one. Uh. You know, you have to 0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:49.320 cut off the other gods from your life. I could 0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:51.040 see that being maybe it's something that keeps you from 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:54.280 drifting back into another one. Sure, Like like if you 0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:56.240 if you have to get this new video game and 0:28:56.280 --> 0:28:58.680 you have to throw out all your other video games, well, 0:28:58.800 --> 0:29:00.280 if you get bored with the new one, not going 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:01.680 to go back to the old ones because they're not 0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:04.160 in the house anymore. Okay, so you only got one game. 0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:06.080 Now you get bored with it. What you start doing 0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:08.720 is looking for glitches in the game to exploit and 0:29:08.760 --> 0:29:11.600 start trying to break the physics, which you could look 0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:13.920 at it for in religious point of view. You start 0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:17.680 maybe innovating how the religion works, thinking about maybe I've 0:29:17.680 --> 0:29:20.240 received a new vision that tells me that the priests 0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:23.600 don't have it exactly right. This is the version. Yeah, yeah, 0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:27.120 new new fan theories about exactly what what Mario means 0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:30.240 to the franchise, etcetera. Now I was I was looking 0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:34.240 around about at this about this question of of monotheism 0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:38.480 and polytheism in the Roman Empire, and uh, there's an 0:29:38.520 --> 0:29:40.920 interesting sounding book. I don't know if you're familiar with 0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:43.479 this author, but it came. It was by Stephen Mitchell, 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:45.440 who I think has done a lot of work in 0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:49.000 religion and involved in some translations of various works such 0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:52.080 as the the Guita. But he has this book called 0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:55.960 One God, Pagan Monotheism in the Roman Empire, and it 0:29:56.000 --> 0:30:00.000 discusses the complexity of the shift from polytheism to Monothey 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.400 is hum but also it deals with this idea of 0:30:02.480 --> 0:30:06.960 quote pagan monotheism, and apparently historians have some historians have 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:10.720 considered the various Roman cults to be something we might 0:30:10.800 --> 0:30:15.360 interpret as monotheistic structures. Um, so this kind of thing 0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:18.000 might be worth it a deeper dive in a later episode, 0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:21.080 because it's apparently it's not a cut and dry issue. Rob. 0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:22.640 I was just trying to look up and figure out. 0:30:22.680 --> 0:30:24.560 I'm not quite sure the answer. If this is the 0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:28.200 same Stephen Mitchell who did one of my favorite poetry translations, 0:30:28.280 --> 0:30:32.480 a translation of Rainer Maria Rilka's archaic Torso of Apollo 0:30:32.560 --> 0:30:34.760 into English. It's uh, I don't know if you've ever 0:30:34.800 --> 0:30:37.680 read this, but his translation is the version that ends 0:30:37.720 --> 0:30:40.560 an English thing for here there is no place that 0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:44.280 does not see you. You must change your life. Oh wow, No, 0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:46.800 I don't think I've read that, but but it it 0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:48.640 might bob be him. It looks like he's He was 0:30:48.680 --> 0:30:51.720 involved in a number of translations and adaptations, including like 0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:54.520 the Guida, but also like the Iliad. Uh, you know 0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:58.040 various some some Chinese works in their um you know, 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:00.680 the Epic of Gilgamesh. So there's a lot of stuff. Well, 0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:02.520 I'm not sure if it's the same Stephen Mitchell, but 0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:04.960 if so, that that's a good translation of that poem 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:08.560 Archaic Torso of Apollo you can look up um. So. 0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:11.360 I didn't have time to to really dig into this 0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:13.640 one God book, but I just want to read a 0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:16.240 quick quote that I found in it from author Stephen 0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:20.480 Mitchell on this topic. Quote, Pagan polytheist did not individually 0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:25.240 become monotheist, but through philosophy and the comparing of religious ideas, 0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:28.400 by adopting and inventing new cults and learning how to 0:31:28.480 --> 0:31:33.800 individualize and express religious experience, they transformed ancient religion into 0:31:33.800 --> 0:31:38.920 a terrain of human experience where much, including monotheism, was possible. Oh, 0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:43.040 that's interesting looking at the possibility that a trend towards 0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:46.720 monotheism could actually emerge from the kind of commerce of 0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:50.440 religious ideas that you would have in a very uh pluralistic, 0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:54.320 multicultural empire. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, it kind of 0:31:54.360 --> 0:31:56.720 gets back to the point where you were you're mentioning earlier. 0:31:57.720 --> 0:31:59.960 So let's get into some of these aspects of Jupiter, 0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:04.360 these different Jupiter sub brands, if you will, that were 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:08.760 available under the Roman Empire. Uh so um. In addition 0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:11.840 to the sources I mentioned already, I was also looking 0:32:11.920 --> 0:32:14.520 at aspects of Jupiter on coins of the Roman Mint 0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:17.479 by Philip V. Hill from this is from nineteen sixty. 0:32:18.120 --> 0:32:20.800 But this one, this particular article is one that dealt 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:25.560 more exclusively with aspects of Jupiter has represented on coins, um, 0:32:25.640 --> 0:32:30.360 which is also pretty interesting. So let's start with Jupiter Stator, 0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:33.640 who we mentioned earlier. That's that's who Cisero is referring to. 0:32:34.160 --> 0:32:38.640 And this is he who stays panic in battle. Uh. 0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:41.600 This is uh, this is Jupiter depicted with a scepter 0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:44.040 and a thunderbolt, and this is the Jupiter that gives 0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:46.880 you courage, that gives you resolved to not be crushed 0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:51.080 by fear. Okay, So stays panic means like holds back panic, 0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:56.760 not like it keeps you panicked right right now, m so, 0:32:56.760 --> 0:32:58.720 so that's obviously a big one. You know what what 0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:00.720 One of the reasons to a fuel to a god 0:33:00.840 --> 0:33:03.080 is like for strength, right, Like give me that strength, 0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.320 give me the resolve to to not run away, especially 0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:10.920 if you're dealing with a warring empire. Likewise, along those lines, 0:33:10.960 --> 0:33:14.120 another big one was Jupiter Victor, the giver of victory, 0:33:14.200 --> 0:33:18.280 depicted as seated and holding a statue all victory and 0:33:18.440 --> 0:33:21.760 a scepter or spear. This was especially prominent on coins, 0:33:22.120 --> 0:33:24.800 and then it might be invoked. This version of Jupiter 0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:28.280 might be invoked either celebrate an actual victory that occurred 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:33.360 or in anticipation of an upcoming victory. So this is 0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:38.560 Jupiter the conqueror Jupiter what is best in life? Right? Yes? 0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:41.760 What to crush the Titans see them driven before you 0:33:41.800 --> 0:33:46.400 hear their lamentations from Tartarus. Yeah, but of course the Jupiter, 0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:49.480 I mean, presumably a god also has to govern, and 0:33:49.480 --> 0:33:52.400 certainly the Roman Empire would have realized that as well. 0:33:52.400 --> 0:33:53.920 It's one thing to conquer, but then you need to 0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:56.960 hold your territory. And that's where the next aspect comes 0:33:56.960 --> 0:34:01.120 in Jupiter conservator. Uh, this is a Jupiter that holds 0:34:01.120 --> 0:34:04.400 a thunderbolt, but he's holding it above the image of 0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:08.360 the Roman emperor, so he's kind of a preserver of rule. 0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:11.359 That's kind of a halo concept. I think, you know, 0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:14.959 it's like saying, like the will of Jupiter resonates through 0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:17.560 the emperor, and he was the one who rules over 0:34:17.600 --> 0:34:21.320 these lands. Now, one of the big ones is Jupiter 0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:26.120 Optimus Maximus or Jupiter Optimus maximus capital Linus, and this 0:34:26.160 --> 0:34:30.040 is the most powerful aspect of Jupiter, all powerful as such, 0:34:30.080 --> 0:34:33.160 the Temple of Jupiter optimist Maximus was the most important 0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:37.239 temple in ancient Rome, located on Capitol Line Hill. Now, 0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:39.480 some other versions you had Jupiter full gore. This is 0:34:39.760 --> 0:34:43.080 the lightning Jupiter, but not passively, so like Jupiter often 0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:46.320 has lightning. But this is like Jupiter with the aggressive stance, 0:34:46.400 --> 0:34:49.560 like he's going to smite you, gonna hurl the thunderbolt. 0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:52.360 For some reason, when you said that, I pictured not Jupiter, 0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:55.760 but I guess uh an analog to Jupiter Marduke holding 0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:59.360 holding this. Yeah, that's a famous image, but Marduke is 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:04.399 often picture in kind of a fighting stance from the side. Yeah, 0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:08.560 there's one that was referred to as a Jupiter Dolicinus, 0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:11.080 and this was the focus of a Roman mystery cult 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:15.080 originally a local hit tight, hurry, and god of fertility 0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:18.240 and thunder. So here we see an example of of 0:35:18.360 --> 0:35:22.560 the of Romans combining ideas. Another deity from another land 0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:26.040 is taken in and becomes an aspect of Jupiter. Then 0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:28.960 you have a Jupiter ruminus. This is the breast feeder 0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:34.399 of all life. And then as we mentioned earlier, Jupiter Pluvius, 0:35:34.440 --> 0:35:37.760 this is the cinder of rain. In times of drought, 0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:42.440 special sacrifices were made in the name of Jupiter Pluvius 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:45.799 and these were called aquilsum. Uh. So this is where 0:35:45.800 --> 0:35:49.120 we're getting back to consideration of not only the mythic Jupiter, 0:35:49.239 --> 0:35:52.839 but but the but Jupiter the planet as well. Uh. 0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:56.879 The idea of Jupiter as as he who delivers the rain, 0:35:57.040 --> 0:36:00.000 he who delivers the water. Yeah. And so we already 0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:04.319 talked about some ways that Jupiter has has influenced what 0:36:04.440 --> 0:36:08.480 kind of stuff smashed into the the forming and then 0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:12.560 the early Earth to determine its composition, what size it 0:36:12.560 --> 0:36:14.840 would grow to, and what was on its surface, and 0:36:14.880 --> 0:36:16.920 what kind of volatiles it had in terms of an 0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:23.000 atmosphere and possibly surface water. Yes. Uh, And so in 0:36:23.000 --> 0:36:25.640 this I mean we're still talking about the planet Jupiter 0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:29.680 pelting the rocky planets with stuff, you know, like it's 0:36:29.680 --> 0:36:35.120 still ultimately a violent relationship. But U. But the idea 0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:38.640 here is that is Jupiter is not only throwing thunderbolts. Uh. 0:36:38.680 --> 0:36:41.920 The Jovial bombardments might have included water or would be water, 0:36:42.200 --> 0:36:46.239 specifically hydrogen rich material. And this wind's up locked into 0:36:46.239 --> 0:36:48.759 Earth's crust and mantle and emerges later to bond with 0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:52.800 oxygen to become water. Uh. So one of the sources 0:36:52.840 --> 0:36:55.520 we're looking at with this is a Nola Taylor red 0:36:55.640 --> 0:36:59.480 article for smithsonian dot com from back in focusing on 0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:02.400 the work of French astronomer Shawn Raymond, who we've already 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:06.880 talked about, uh, whose models predict this possible gas giant 0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:10.480 thrown delivery of water rich material to the inner planets. 0:37:10.520 --> 0:37:14.000 Also key is the work of andre Isadoro, who, along 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:16.320 with Raymond, published a paper on this in two seventeen 0:37:16.400 --> 0:37:20.160 titled Origin of Water in the Inner Solar System. Okay, 0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:22.839 so what do they argue? Okay? So the idea here 0:37:22.920 --> 0:37:25.480 is that four point five billion years ago, the massive 0:37:25.560 --> 0:37:28.920 center of the and in this I'm gonna touch on 0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:31.720 some stuff we've already gone through, but then the massive 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:34.680 center of the cloud of gas and cosmic dust begins 0:37:34.719 --> 0:37:37.120 to form into a central star, our Sun. But the 0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:41.440 remaining cloud remained and its contents would in time form 0:37:41.920 --> 0:37:44.680 into the planets. But the water rich region of the 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:48.279 disc would have been located several astronomical units away from 0:37:48.320 --> 0:37:51.240 the Sun. The temperature in the inner region was too high, 0:37:51.600 --> 0:37:55.319 so that water then ultimately has to move back to 0:37:55.440 --> 0:37:58.040 the inner planets to become a part of them so 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:00.879 that we can have water on Earth. So this would 0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:05.120 have occurred um between during a five to ten million 0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:08.759 year period between the Sun's formation and the dissipation of 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:12.120 the gas disc. During this time, the gas giants formed 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:16.799 and quote Jupiter's rapid growth gravitationally disturbed thousands of water 0:38:16.920 --> 0:38:21.400 rich planetism as, dislodging them from their original orbits. Okay, 0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:24.960 so we see yet again, Jupiter as it's coming together, 0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:28.600 begins to throw its weight around it exerts gravitational influence 0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:33.200 and in this case would have started pulling in these uh, 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:37.279 these planetesimals, these these objects, you know, objects that might 0:38:37.320 --> 0:38:40.600 be I don't know, asteroid sized or larger that have 0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:44.520 some kind of water hydrogen content on them and then 0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:48.480 slamming them into the inner solar system. Right. It's it's 0:38:48.480 --> 0:38:50.200 basically you know what it reminds me of is I 0:38:50.200 --> 0:38:52.960 don't know if you've seen these sort of vaudevillian skits 0:38:53.280 --> 0:38:55.520 where like you have your your your bad comic, you're 0:38:55.520 --> 0:38:58.960 sort of Fozzy Bear type and he's on stage, he's bombing. 0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:01.279 I mean, he's just really dog in it up. Uh 0:39:01.320 --> 0:39:04.279 And so that the audience is of course pelting him 0:39:04.400 --> 0:39:08.000 with fruits and vegetables and he either catches one in 0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:10.239 his mouth and begins to eat it or catches something 0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:12.359 like catches the carrot and starts eating it. So like 0:39:12.640 --> 0:39:16.040 they're they're pelting and they're engaging in violence, but they're 0:39:16.040 --> 0:39:18.279 throwing nutrients at him. And he was like, yes, I 0:39:18.320 --> 0:39:20.880 am hungry, I shall eat That is that's kind of 0:39:20.920 --> 0:39:25.440 the relationship going on here. Um well, the Fozzy Bear effect, 0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:28.799 I'm gonna call it anyway. Um I was reading some 0:39:28.840 --> 0:39:33.800 more about this, um uh Isadoro had provided some quotes 0:39:33.840 --> 0:39:36.719 about this that were used in press release and write ups. 0:39:36.760 --> 0:39:39.080 In particular one that was on Eureka or dot com 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:42.839 and this is what they said, quote in our own 0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:46.040 solar system, the model shows that ices from the outer 0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:49.080 Solar System snowed down on the Earth in three waves. 0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.200 The first came as Jupiter swelled up, the second was 0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:55.480 triggered during Saturn's formation, and the third would have occurred 0:39:55.600 --> 0:39:59.120 when Uranus and Neptune migrated inward before being blocked by 0:39:59.160 --> 0:40:01.960 the other two and sent back to the outskirts of 0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:05.640 the Solar System. Ah, and that ties into something that 0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:07.840 I was talking about earlier when I was mentioning that 0:40:07.880 --> 0:40:10.479 blog post by Sean Raymond, one of the authors here 0:40:10.880 --> 0:40:13.440 that the early forming Jupiter, and I'm not sure if 0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:16.480 he's saying also maybe Saturn too, but at least definitely 0:40:16.560 --> 0:40:19.839 Jupiter and perhaps also Saturn would have prevented these icy 0:40:19.880 --> 0:40:23.279 bodies you're in a Neptune from migrating inward towards the 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:25.640 inner Solar System and messing with the planets that were 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:29.239 forming down in closer to the Sun. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, 0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:31.120 if you have an all powerful god like Jupiter, one 0:40:31.120 --> 0:40:33.120 of the things that that they're supposed to do is 0:40:33.200 --> 0:40:37.399 keep keep his dreaded father and grandfather from taking over 0:40:37.440 --> 0:40:40.000 creation again, right, I mean, that's why we're putting up 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:43.200 with all of this right right now. One other neat 0:40:43.239 --> 0:40:45.680 thing about this that the authors point out is that, 0:40:46.200 --> 0:40:48.160 you know, it might not just be a quirk of 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:51.080 our own Solar system. It might not just be the peculiar, 0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:55.279 peculiar story of of life on Earth and life in 0:40:55.280 --> 0:40:58.759 this system. This could be going on anywhere that you 0:40:58.840 --> 0:41:04.000 have both giant planets and terrestrial planets. Um. So this 0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:05.840 is the sort of thing that if this is true, 0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:09.040 this would be another thing to look for in our 0:41:09.080 --> 0:41:12.920 exoplanet surveys. Look for situations where you have like the 0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:16.560 right proportions and right arrangements of gas giants and rocky 0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:21.759 inner planets where this same bombardment of water could happen. Yeah, 0:41:21.840 --> 0:41:24.520 this is really interesting and uh. And of course in 0:41:24.560 --> 0:41:27.200 the specific case of Earth, it of course goes without 0:41:27.200 --> 0:41:29.800 saying that we couldn't have life on Earth without surface 0:41:29.880 --> 0:41:32.239 you know, plenty of surface water on Earth. So so 0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:35.880 this is something that, uh, if if this model of 0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:38.880 the early Solar System is correct, this would again be 0:41:39.120 --> 0:41:48.759 crucial to us being here at all. Yeah. Thank now 0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:52.880 I've got another thing that, again an astrophysical theory that, 0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:56.839 if correct, would be crucial for us being here at all. Uh. 0:41:56.840 --> 0:42:00.120 And this would have more to do with the history 0:42:00.160 --> 0:42:02.560 of life on Earth. Once you've already got the rocky 0:42:02.600 --> 0:42:06.200 planet Earth, and you've already got Earth life, what happens 0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:09.080 to shape the course of evolution on the surface of 0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:12.440 this planet. Well, there is a new paper published in 0:42:12.719 --> 0:42:16.920 uh Nature Scientific Reports in one so I think it 0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:19.319 was just out last month. It was in February of 0:42:19.360 --> 0:42:23.120 this year by i'm here Sarage and Abraham Loeb or 0:42:23.160 --> 0:42:26.680 avy loebe called the breakup of a long period comment 0:42:26.760 --> 0:42:30.960 as the origin of the dinosaur extinction. Uh. And so 0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:34.040 I was briefly reading a Harvard gazette right up of 0:42:34.040 --> 0:42:36.160 of this study. I'm not going to go super in 0:42:36.200 --> 0:42:38.560 depth about it, but basically what the authors argue here 0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:44.280 is that Jupiter's gravitational field influenced objects, a comment probably 0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:47.759 originating from the Ort Cloud. So that's way out there 0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:51.400 past the Kuiper Belt. You know, this huge sphere of 0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:54.640 icy objects, way way out in the distance, beyond the 0:42:54.719 --> 0:42:57.200 orbit of Neptune, beyond the orbit of Pluto, beyond the 0:42:57.239 --> 0:43:01.480 Kuiper Belt. Even that Jupiter disturbed the orbit of one 0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:05.279 of these comets from the Order Cloud, and this disturbance 0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:07.480 of its orbit sent it really close to the Sun 0:43:07.920 --> 0:43:12.399 where tidal forces then broke the comet apart, and this 0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:16.880 would increase the rate of comets that would bombard the Earth. 0:43:16.960 --> 0:43:19.720 And these comets would include objects like the chicks Alube 0:43:19.800 --> 0:43:23.600 impact object, which hit the Earth about sixty six million 0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:26.400 years ago, and according to the leading theory today, is 0:43:26.440 --> 0:43:30.040 probably the main thing responsible for the extinction of the 0:43:30.080 --> 0:43:34.239 non avian dinosaurs. And so Loween Saraje here argue that 0:43:34.320 --> 0:43:38.200 it is the gravitational influence of Jupiter that increases these 0:43:38.280 --> 0:43:41.160 kinds of impacts through the mechanism I just described, And 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:45.640 Saraje is quoted in this Harvard Gazette piece where he says, 0:43:45.719 --> 0:43:49.080 quote basically, Jupiter acts as a kind of pinball machine. 0:43:49.560 --> 0:43:53.319 Jupiter kicks these incoming long period comets into orbits that 0:43:53.400 --> 0:43:56.239 bring them very close to the Sun. When you have 0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:59.719 these sun grazers, it's not so much the melting that 0:43:59.760 --> 0:44:02.240 go is on, which is a pretty small fraction relative 0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:05.040 to the total mass, but the comet is so close 0:44:05.080 --> 0:44:07.240 to the Sun that the part of it that's closer 0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:11.000 to the Sun feels a stronger gravitational pull than the 0:44:11.000 --> 0:44:14.120 part that is farther from the Sun, causing a tidal force. 0:44:14.560 --> 0:44:17.839 You get what's called a tidal disruption event, and so 0:44:17.920 --> 0:44:20.560 these large comets that come really close to the Sun 0:44:21.000 --> 0:44:24.399 break up into smaller comets and basically on their way out, 0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:28.280 there's a statistical chance that these smaller comets hit the Earth. 0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:31.520 So huge icy objects from out in the Orc Cloud 0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:34.360 getting diverted by the gravitational influence of Jupiter so that 0:44:34.400 --> 0:44:36.759 they pass really close to the Sun. They sort of 0:44:36.800 --> 0:44:40.279 shatter as they do so because the title forces from 0:44:40.280 --> 0:44:42.600 the Sun are so strong, and then they turn into 0:44:42.640 --> 0:44:45.960 a kind of buckshot blast of huge icy objects in 0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:49.320 the inner Solar System that can hit Earth and potentially 0:44:49.360 --> 0:44:52.560 cause mass extinctions. And I think one of the arguments 0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:55.520 that they also bring up is that the is that 0:44:55.680 --> 0:44:59.880 it looks like the carbonaceous content of the object that 0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:03.680 caused the KPg extinction is more similar to stuff you're 0:45:03.719 --> 0:45:06.960 you're likely to find in these deep space or cloud 0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:09.920 objects than in things you're more likely to find closer 0:45:09.960 --> 0:45:12.320 to the Inner Solar System, like in the asteroid belt. 0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:15.400 So again, this is another argument that is based on 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:19.520 simulations and statistical analysis, But if this is correct, it 0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:22.080 is yet another one of the many ways that Jupiter 0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:25.479 would be responsible for the fact that we exist at all. 0:45:25.719 --> 0:45:29.160 While it was you know, calamitous for the non avian dinosaurs, 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:32.920 it paved the way for the age of mammals. I 0:45:33.040 --> 0:45:35.800 like that if if this worked true, this is true, 0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:39.320 we we might need a new aspect for the god Jupiter, 0:45:39.480 --> 0:45:43.880 maybe Jupiter or extinct or god of extinctions, you know, yeah, 0:45:44.040 --> 0:45:46.400 very good with cold. Be shown holding a lizard in 0:45:46.400 --> 0:45:48.480 one hand and a thunderbolt in the other, like he's 0:45:48.480 --> 0:45:51.600 about to like smash it in his palm. His hand 0:45:51.600 --> 0:45:54.239 flashes with power, but it's against a bunch of had ressours. 0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:58.040 They're trying to guard their eggs, and he's like, well 0:45:58.120 --> 0:46:00.960 he was Probably his thinking was probably I look, these 0:46:01.160 --> 0:46:05.320 these these life forms. They're not worshiping me now. Honestly, 0:46:05.400 --> 0:46:08.280 I don't think they're gonna be worshiping worshiping me anytime soon. 0:46:08.880 --> 0:46:11.760 Unless I really shake things up. I'm just gonna smite 0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:13.680 a lot of them, right. You know what I really like. 0:46:13.840 --> 0:46:16.360 I really like the look of that rat like creature 0:46:16.440 --> 0:46:18.680 down there, and it's gonna be twinkle in its I 0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:21.080 think some some good things could happen if I give 0:46:21.120 --> 0:46:25.320 the rats a chance. Though it does make me wonder, 0:46:25.440 --> 0:46:28.040 you know, did I wonder if Jupiter slash Zeus got 0:46:28.120 --> 0:46:30.480 up to you know, his normal tricks. Did he go 0:46:30.560 --> 0:46:34.120 down and take the form of different uh dinosaurs and 0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:37.799 mate with the dinosaurs to create like certain demi god 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:40.920 dinosaurs that would have been just you know, extra powerful 0:46:41.920 --> 0:46:45.960 amid their dinosaur brethren. What would the dinosaur mythology version 0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:49.840 of the minotaur be. It would be like a Tyrannosaurus 0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:53.560 rex with the head of a triceratops, I guess. But 0:46:53.560 --> 0:46:55.640 but then again, I don't know. I feel like like 0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:58.200 the minotaur is one of those beasts that's kind of 0:46:58.760 --> 0:47:03.760 born out of feuding with the gods and disobeying the gods. 0:47:03.800 --> 0:47:06.480 I don't know. I guess the dinosaurs just by refusing 0:47:06.520 --> 0:47:08.759 to worship are just not being capable of it. You know. 0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:11.120 The gods could have taken that the wrong way and 0:47:11.440 --> 0:47:15.080 dished out some punishment. But um, I don't know. Like this, 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:17.560 I think this would be a rich area for I 0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:20.320 don't know, an action figure line or maybe a comic 0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:25.600 book like the The The Age of of Gods and Dinosaurs. Um, 0:47:25.719 --> 0:47:27.520 what would that have been like? Also? I mean, if 0:47:27.520 --> 0:47:31.239 if humans weren't even in the game yet, I guess. Uh. 0:47:31.360 --> 0:47:34.160 Any form that the Jupiter took would be that of 0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:37.200 a dinosaur. So like, would how would he appear? Would 0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:40.440 he appear as a as a great t rex or 0:47:40.560 --> 0:47:42.359 some sort of enormal I mean he is a god 0:47:42.360 --> 0:47:44.560 of the sky. Maybe he takes the form of of 0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:49.200 of an enormous um of you know, flying reptile. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:53.080 Jupiter is quetzel coatlas. Oh yeah, that would be fitting, 0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:55.960 especially since you know the humans found those bones and 0:47:56.040 --> 0:47:59.280 named it after a god. So what what better form 0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:02.000 for the sky guide to take? We're all, but I 0:48:02.000 --> 0:48:03.440 think we gotta call it there. But this has been 0:48:03.440 --> 0:48:05.800 a lot of fun. Yeah, this has I love getting 0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:09.120 the switch back and forth between the planetary and the mythological. 0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:12.280 I should mention, however, we mostly speak of the Roman 0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:14.200 gods as figures of the past, just as we do 0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:17.160 with Greek deities and ancient Egyptian deities. But we should 0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:19.960 also mention that there are modern worshippers as well, not 0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:23.280 only of of of Greek deities and ancient Egyptian deities, 0:48:23.440 --> 0:48:27.399 but also of of Roman Jupiter um. You know, after all, 0:48:27.440 --> 0:48:30.480 just as modern humans reach for new models, entirely new 0:48:30.520 --> 0:48:33.160 models of religion, uh, you know, drawing things even out 0:48:33.160 --> 0:48:36.440 of popular culture like Star Wars or The Dude. We 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:39.920 also reach for the old ones and reconstructions of the 0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:44.520 old ones. Thus we do see Roman polytheistic reconstructionism uh 0:48:44.560 --> 0:48:48.440 in several different groups and forms. So um uh just 0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:51.319 always worth worth mentioning. I don't think we we blasphemed 0:48:51.360 --> 0:48:55.440 too much in this regarding Jupiter, but uh, and a right, 0:48:55.719 --> 0:48:59.960 if anyone out there who's actively involved in a religion 0:49:00.680 --> 0:49:03.800 or some sort of spiritual movement that that that reveres Jupiter, 0:49:04.239 --> 0:49:05.719 I would I'd love to hear from you. I'd love 0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:08.080 to know how do you think of Jupiter? How does 0:49:08.520 --> 0:49:12.319 how does this material sit with you? Um? So yeah, 0:49:12.320 --> 0:49:14.400 I always find that kind of thing interesting. We have 0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:17.120 in the past heard from at least one listener who 0:49:18.239 --> 0:49:23.759 engages in a religious model that incorporates Egyptian deities. Oh yeah, 0:49:23.800 --> 0:49:26.440 that's true. Yeah, all right, Well, if you would like 0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:29.160 to listen to other episodes of Stuff to Blow your Mind, 0:49:29.600 --> 0:49:31.160 you know where to find them. Find them in the 0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:34.719 Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed. Uh. That is 0:49:34.719 --> 0:49:37.160 where core episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind published 0:49:37.200 --> 0:49:39.400 on Tuesdays and Thursday. That's the main show that's the 0:49:39.400 --> 0:49:42.759 main event, but then we also have listener mail on Monday's. 0:49:43.120 --> 0:49:46.239 On Wednesdays we do the Artifact episodes unless they've been 0:49:46.239 --> 0:49:49.120 preempted for some reason, and then on Friday's we do 0:49:49.200 --> 0:49:51.520 Weird House Cinema. 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