1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how stupports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and we are talking about Twitter in 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: this episode because there's an anniversary of foot, isn't there, Caroline, 5 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: That's right, March two thousand six, the first tweet was sent. 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: That's right. It was Jack Dorsey who sent the first 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: public tweet on March twenty one of that year. And 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: it said it didn't say that, it said just setting 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: up my Twitter. But that was when Twitter had no vowels, right, 10 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: And I think that tweet served as the prototype for 11 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: tweets for many years of just like making a sandwich, 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: drive into work, doing things, doing things with the sandwich. 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: But we're not just going to talk about what we 14 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: ate for lunch today on the podcast because well we 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: haven't had lunch yet at the time of this recording. Yeah, 16 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about Twitter, women on Twitter, how we 17 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: use it, how we might use it a little bit 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: differently than men, and also women within Twitter, or in 19 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: this case, the lack thereof. But first, let's start with 20 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 1: the creation story. How did it all begin? Caroline? Right? Yeah, 21 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: really briefly, Um, basically, entrepreneur Noah Glass started what was 22 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: to be a podcasting platform called Odio, and he basically 23 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: had this product that you would call a phone number 24 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: and it would turn your message into an MP three um. 25 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: One of his earliest investors was former Google employee Evan Williams, 26 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: who had just made bank off of selling Blogger to Google. 27 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: And Evan Williams was quite the shrewd businessman. And basically, 28 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: so they start working together on this podcast platform. They 29 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: get an office, they get more employees, and then in 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: fall two thousand five, Apple announces that, oh hey, iTunes, 31 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: by the way, is going to include a podcasting platform 32 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: in every iPod And so everybody and Oudio looks at 33 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: each other and they're like, oh, oh yeah. And by 34 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: this time they also had a number of investors and 35 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: who have money writing on this project. And so Evan 36 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: Williams is like, hey, guys, we need to think of 37 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: something new. And so Noah Glass gets together with his coworker, 38 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: Jack Dorsey, and there's also a developer named Florian Webber 39 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: who gets involved as well, and they start pitching ideas around. 40 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: So Jack Dorsey has this concept that really resonates with 41 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: Glass and it's all around the idea of status, just 42 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: those those short Hey, this is what I'm up to 43 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,119 Speaker 1: right now, and I want to tell the world about this. 44 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: And so they present this idea to the rest of 45 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: the company and they're like, okay, yeah, you'll start working 46 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: on this. And what they start working on at that 47 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: time would eventually become Twitter. But that's Twitter with no 48 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: vowels as it started out and no. Glass became very 49 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: dedicated to this project. Yeah, it was Dorsey's brainchild, but 50 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: it was I guess if it's his brainchild, Glass adopted 51 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: that child and really really pushed it and had a 52 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: lot of passion for it. Then okay, So in March 53 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: talus and six, like we said, that's the first tweet, 54 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: Odio has the strong working Twitter prototype. They're really starting 55 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: to put a lot of energy into it. In July 56 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: of that year, it gets covered by tech Crunch for 57 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: the first time. And August two thousand and six, something 58 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: interesting happens. A small earthquake hit San Francisco and words 59 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: spreads via Twitter, and all of a sudden, everybody's looking 60 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: at each other again going like, oh, I think we 61 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: have something pretty big on our hands. Yeah, but Ev 62 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: williams oh Evan's short for Evan. He actually ended up 63 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: buying back all of the original audio stock around five 64 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: million dollars. He kind of reacquired this whole company from 65 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: the other former backers because he, at least on paper, 66 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: didn't see Twitter as being viable enough to save what 67 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: was by this point the flailing audio because another podcast 68 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: platform would in no way be able to compete with iTunes. 69 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: And this kind of sets off a strange chain of 70 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: events for Noah Glass, who once Twitter gets up and running, 71 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: and in two thousand seven, for instance, it has a 72 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: breakout presence at the south By Southwest Interactive Festival, and 73 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: people by the end of the two thousand's are like, hey, 74 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: you know what this is? The early adopter types recognize 75 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: that this could really be something, something special. But no 76 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: Glass eventually gets kicked out of the team, even though 77 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: he was the one who came up with the name 78 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: Twitter by sliping through the dictionary. Yeah, yeah, he was. 79 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: That actually is an example of the level of his 80 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: admitted obsession with this product was that he was going 81 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: page by page through the dictionary looking for the perfect 82 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: word for the product. Right, but I mean it's it's there. 83 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: Like Kristen said on paper, you know, Williams fives back 84 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: the stock saying, hey, I feel really bad. You guys 85 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: invested all this money, but odio is just not going 86 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: to make it. I don't even know if this whole 87 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: Twitter thing is going to turn into anything. But they 88 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: you know, there's all of the speculation that Okay, no, 89 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: he did know how special it was. He did know 90 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: it's going to be a big thing, but he just 91 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: didn't communicate that to investors. But anyway, we might never 92 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: know unless we break into Evan Williams's brain. But so 93 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: on September Twitter files for an i p O. And 94 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: on November seven, it makes its trading debut, public trading debut. Yeah, 95 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: and it was value and with that I p O 96 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: at fourteen billion dollars. So, in other words, Evan Williams 97 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: made a whole lot of money. No, Glass really made 98 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: nothing because he had already been cut out of the 99 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: project because apparently he was a little too too obsessive 100 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: about it. At least that's kind of the line. Um. 101 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: By now, the uh what was sometimes termed the creation 102 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: myth of Twitter has has kind of been co opted 103 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: by Jack Dorsey and this other guy Bistone, who is 104 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: listed as a co founder of the company. And why 105 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: we're getting into the nitty gritty of how Twitter was 106 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: founded is sort of to offer a snapshot, as we 107 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: did with our episodes on Instagram and Pinterest, of this 108 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: very male dominated world of Silicon Valley and how it 109 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: is very cutthroat and competitive and it's all about high 110 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: risk and that is starting to change and and even 111 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, was beginning to change as this was happening. Um, 112 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: but from this origin where it's all guys for the 113 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: most part working on this thing, women now in a 114 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: way run Twitter. Yeah, if you're if we're talking about 115 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: who's tweeting, right, it is it is women, And we 116 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: do make up a bulk of social media users. However, 117 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: we hold the keys to so few actual social media companies. Um. 118 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: We were looking at into sort of the makeup of 119 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: these companies, and none of the leading social networks is 120 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: run by a woman or counts a significant number of 121 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: women among its top management or board of directors. And 122 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying that this is a 123 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: huge problem because, according to scholar Vivic wadhwa Um, this 124 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: basically shows that these companies don't really understand their base, 125 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: their whole user base, that Silicon Valley is a boys 126 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: club that they eat more diversity on their boards for 127 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: the sake of for their own sake, for the sake 128 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:09,559 Speaker 1: of their longevity. And but Twitter hopefully maybe is getting 129 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: with the program. Not really, I mean, just for for 130 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: a rundown of this, the female leadership in the major 131 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: social media's out there. First of all, you have Facebook 132 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: with of course CEO Cheryl Sandberg, and it has two women, 133 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: including Standberg, on its eight member board, with LinkedIn three 134 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: of its top nine managers or women. It has one 135 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: woman on its seven member board. Instagram, which is owned 136 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: by Facebook, was founded by two men, as we talked 137 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: about in that episode. And Tumbler also founded by a dude, 138 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: now owned by Yahoo, which is run by Marissa Meyers. 139 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: So there's that. And then we have a Pinterest founded 140 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: by three guys. And Twitter is really doesn't do much 141 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: better at all. When it was up for its I 142 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: p O. There was this story in the New York 143 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: Times that kind of opened up this conversation about how, hey, yeah, Twitter, 144 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: your board, uh, it's all men, and you really have 145 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: very few women in leadership. What's going on with that. 146 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: But now Twitter has one woman on its eight member 147 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: board of directors. Yeah. Back in December, they named Marjorie 148 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: Scardino to its board of directors. She's the former chief 149 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: executive of Pearson, which is a British publishing an education company, 150 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: which it sounds like she completely turned that ship around 151 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: and and got that all buttoned down. But she serves 152 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: on the company's audit committee and her term expires this 153 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: year at their annual meeting of stockholders. So I guess 154 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: we'll see then whether Twitter invites more women to participate well. 155 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: And you have to wonder whether or not they even 156 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: brought on Scardino simply because they were under duress in 157 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: a word, because so many people once The New York 158 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: Times reported on it, there were a lot of people 159 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: who dogpiled on this, say hey, yeah, Twitter, what is 160 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: going on? You have to hire or at least get 161 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: more women on your board. I mean, we should mention 162 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: that Chloe Sladden is their director of Media Partnership and 163 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: Katie Jacob Stanton is their director of International Strategy, so 164 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: you do have some women in leadership. And uh, there 165 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: was a Vogue article that I ran across, which whatever 166 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: you see articles about women in tech in Vogue. It 167 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: is pretty much focused on how they're very well dressed, 168 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: since it is Vogue. But this quote from Jacob Wiseberg's 169 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: Peace jumped out to me. It says Twitter is more 170 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: humanistic than other tech startups, less defined by introverted math 171 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: majors and engineers, and perhaps as a result, friendlier to women, 172 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 1: who were well represented at all the meetings I attended, 173 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: which I don't really know what Jacob Wiseberg considers friendlier 174 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: to women. Um, but and and and maybe there were 175 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: lots of women in the meetings he attended because his 176 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: piece was about women at Twitter. But but it's not 177 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: like they're They certainly aren't stepping out in leaps and 178 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: bounds ahead of these other big companies. Well that author 179 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: who I sided a minute ago, Vivic Guadua. He pointed 180 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: out that, look, they are no longer a bunch of 181 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: geeks selling to fellow geeks, as was the case when 182 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: the tech industry was in its infancy, And so to 183 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 1: completely scoot on over to look at the users, I mean, 184 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: who are the people that Twitter is talking to or 185 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: pitching too, and who who are they appealing to? Um? Basically, uh, 186 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: younger urban and non white adults. Yeah, is the way 187 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: that Twitter users skew. Yeah, And it's important too that 188 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: when you look at the age breakdown of Twitter that 189 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: it is it does skew young eight to twenty nine 190 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: is a sweet spot for them because more and more 191 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: young folk are moving away from Facebook, which still kind 192 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: of dominates the social media landscape. But when it comes 193 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: to still Come Valley, I mean, it's all about looking forward, 194 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: and you need to look at where the younger people 195 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: are going, and they're on Twitter. And it's also significant 196 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: too that, according to data collected by the Pew Internet Project, 197 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: women do edge out men on Twitter. It's not by 198 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: a huge margin. Eight percent of female Internet users are 199 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: on Twitter compared to sevent of male Internet users. But nevertheless, 200 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: the fact that we're still edging amount by a little 201 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: bit show some blindness in terms of you know, like 202 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: like you said, the point that Wadwa brings up of, hey, 203 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: do you even know your user base? Right? And when 204 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: we look at the gender breakdown of that user base. 205 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: This is coming from a report from October. Women tweet 206 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: more than men, and while we tend to tweet about 207 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: family and fashion, men tend to tweet about tech and sports, 208 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: and just for some trivia, we like purple backgrounds while 209 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: men prefer dark one. Yeah, what's up with that? It's 210 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: an interesting report. Purple backgrounds, Mine is blue. I don't 211 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: know what. I don't know. Yeah, I don't really know 212 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: what that means. I don't either, but it wasn't apparently 213 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: important enough to include in here. Purple. Y'all tweet it 214 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: and we'll talk a little bit more about the whole 215 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: Twitter and gender issue when we come back from a 216 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: quick break, and now back to the show. Now speaking 217 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: about maybe the differences in how men and women use Twitter, 218 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: there's been some socio linguistic research into our gendered speech 219 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: patterns on Twitter, which it is actually a little more 220 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: challenging that you might think, because Twitter handles aren't necessarily 221 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: your gendered name. You might just be inanimate object or 222 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: a series of consonants, like my boyfriend is a food item? Yeah, 223 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: but not but not a gender eared food item. It 224 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: could it could be anything. Yeah, so like cauliflower six 225 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: one two, who knows what that might be. Um, but 226 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: what they've done, it's sort of reverse engineered it by 227 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: looking at the content of the tweets. They can then 228 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: they some of some researchers, I think actually Georgia Tech 229 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: have figured out an algorithm for determining the gender of 230 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: a Twitter user, which is really important for Twitter in 231 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: terms of advertising, because advertisers are like, well, how do 232 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: I target cauliflower six more two five? If I don't 233 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: know what cauliflower might like? Califlower call yeah, basically just 234 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: sell them cauliflower clearly. Um. But there was one study 235 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: that jumped out at us with all of this gender 236 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: and language and Twitter research, which found that women tend 237 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: to use more pronouns and emotion terms like sad, love 238 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: and glad where oh, and we also use more things 239 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: like l O, l O, MG, abbreviations that are associated 240 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: with online discourse in more formal terms. And we also 241 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: rate highly on the use of emoticons and what are 242 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: called back channel sounds, which I gotta kick out of. 243 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: These are back channel sounds are things like ha hmmm, 244 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: ug mine. The one that I used all the time 245 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: is blog yeah um, And so let me tell you 246 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: I've said that forever and like, let me tell you 247 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: how special it was when I started watching thirty Rocks 248 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: long ago, and she says, blurg, I was like, we 249 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: are soul made. It's true. Um, but so okay, So 250 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: women are are using more emotion terms and and abbreviations 251 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: and things like that. Men tend to have higher frequencies 252 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: of standard dictionary words whatever those are, uh numbers, proper nouns, 253 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: particularly sports team names and taboo words. Yeah, and they 254 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: looked at over these researchers looked at nine million tweets 255 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: I think, which sounds exhausting, and they found these gendered patterns. 256 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: But they also found some statistical outliers where if you have, um, 257 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: a female user who's tweeting a bunch about sports teams 258 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: and maybe using more standard dictionary germs, in other words, 259 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: using more male patterns of tweet speech, then they tend 260 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: to have more male followers or follow more men, and 261 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: vice versa for men who use more female gendered speech patterns. 262 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting how you see those, Um, you 263 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: see us borrowing from each other, but also how that 264 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: reflects in who you follow, Because if you're not the 265 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal or or some other you know, formal 266 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: media outlet, you're not necessarily going to use complete sentences, 267 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: complete capitalization. You're probably gonna abbreviate things. I will say 268 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: not to make myself sound like I'm like better than 269 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: anybody out there, but like, I don't like to rely 270 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: on abbreviations on Twitter. I know that I only have 271 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: a hundred forty characters, but I am determined to make 272 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: my complete sentence fit well, Caroline. If you follow at 273 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcasts, you might notice that it's tweets are 274 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: typically standard dictionary term. That's right, we are a very 275 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: masculine podcast. It's true. No, I agree. I think it's 276 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: because you and I are both writer early grammar nerds, 277 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: and I prefer to not rely on abbreviation either unless 278 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: it is funny, if it improves the comedic effect, or 279 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: if I absolutely can't fit something in, then I'll abbreviate. 280 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's funny like being on Twitter and seeing 281 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: the things that people abbreviate, like the word about or 282 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: something that I'm like, oh wow, I just never would 283 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: have thought to abbreviate that, and yet I still get 284 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: the meaning. That's a common one that I'll that I'll abbreviate. 285 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: That doesn't feel as bad to abbreviate about or btwright, 286 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: I'll do that. But I have also adopted tweet speech 287 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: in my own verbal speech, which is something it's a 288 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: slippery slope. It's a slippery because you start doing something ironically, 289 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: uh and to get laughs, and then it like infiltrates 290 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: your infiltrates your actual speech. I say btww out loud, 291 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: and it is not ironic and I'm not ashamed to 292 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: say it. It's just what happens when you live on 293 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 1: the internet. Now, And that was I mean, that was 294 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: the trouble that I got into with banker guns for 295 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: a while because I was like ironically being like right 296 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: at the babe, and then Carolina's finger gutting me right 297 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: now and like not winking, just kind of like blinking 298 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: hard at her. And then I realized that it was 299 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: starting like I would be having a conversation at work, 300 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: let's say, and I'd be like, yep, that's right, and 301 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: I'd finger gun the person. I'm like, no, this is awful, 302 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: and so I had to I had to consciously stop. 303 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: But okay, well, so now that I've taken us down 304 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: that path and all of your bosses thought you were 305 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: awkwardly hitting on them. Um, so even though women are talking, 306 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: we are talking differently on Twitter, but we are all 307 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: in all talking more on Twitter, we tweet more, but 308 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: here's a interesting pattern. We might be talking more, but 309 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: we get retweeted less often, right, And this is there 310 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: was a tool that researchers used to figure this out. 311 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: It's called the tweet que which is basically Twitter's equality 312 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: quotient thingamabob but any who. They found that men are 313 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: retweeted almost twice as often as women, was close to 314 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: six of all retweets those of male users. And so 315 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,239 Speaker 1: I was reading this and I immediately was like, I 316 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: have to know what my score is because I don't 317 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: tweet a ton and I don't I definitely don't retweet 318 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 1: at time. So I was like, what, what what does 319 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: mine say about me? And so with great trepidation, I 320 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: typed my handle into the little machine and it told 321 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: me that my tweet QE score was pretty freaking dismal, 322 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: that I tend to mostly retweet men. And then I 323 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: thought about it after my initial shock, I'm I'm really 324 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: mainly retweeting like news outlets or you know, big groups 325 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: like that. I I'm not typically retweeting an individual, So 326 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: I don't take that for whatever. Well, perhaps that's social 327 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: media reflection of certain kinds of media gender gaps that 328 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: you see. For instance, opinion columnists tend to be men. 329 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: They usually almost always skew mail. Even Um, there was 330 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: this study a while ago NPR had an ombudsman come 331 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: in to analyze the gender of sources that they sided in. 332 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: Stories tended to be men, not because NPR sexist, but 333 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: usually because men just might you know, want to talk 334 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: more than women do, which is kind of surprising. Um, 335 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: So it's not just that men are saying, well, I 336 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: guess you could say, well, men are just saying more 337 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: important things than women are on Twitter, or is it 338 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: that maybe more mouthpieces for certain organizations or mail? But also, 339 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like on the podcast before we've 340 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: touched on the whole idea of there being a bias 341 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: in terms of people trusting male voices more than female ones. 342 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: So it seems to me like there's a lot of 343 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: interesting parts at work here. Yeah, I would be curious 344 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: to dig into that data and see beyond gender, what 345 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: are the topics that get most retweeted, because it's probably 346 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: gonna be news items like in your case, uh, politics, business, tech, 347 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: maybe sports, these things that do tend to have more 348 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: male authorship. Right, But if you think about it. So like, 349 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: let's say, uh, Slate has an article that's something gender related, 350 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: something about women in the workplace. Let's say, and let's 351 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: say that I retweet that. Well, who's the you know 352 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: that's about women? But is it being attributed to a gender? 353 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, Maybe we need to get this Georgia 354 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: Tech scientists on the PODCST. It's true speaking of this 355 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: retweet issue. Though, before we even started researching for this episode, 356 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, I read this column on the 357 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: site media Um by this guy named and Neil Dash 358 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: who is a big tech guy, has a big Twitter following, 359 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: and he went for a year without retweeting men because 360 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: he had, like you, Caroline, a dismal Twitter equality quotient score, 361 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: and he just wanted to see how his Twitter feed 362 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: and now his Twitter habits might change if he only 363 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: retweeted women. And he found that it really changed nothing 364 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: other than every now and then he would have to 365 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: be a little bit more concerted in figuring out, you know, 366 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: who he was retweeting, So it took a little bit 367 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: more time every now and then. But he said that overall, 368 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: the the dialogues that were coming into his feet as 369 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: a result of the retweets were sometimes more, were sometimes richer, 370 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: because he was just exposed to conversations, female conversations that 371 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have normally been exposed to because he was 372 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: kind of just staying in in the male zone. Well, 373 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: i mean, speaking of female conversations. One thing that I've noticed, 374 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: you know, like I said, I'm I mean, jeez, I 375 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: just got on Twitter like last year. I'm thirty, you know, 376 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that there are so many listeners right 377 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: now who are saying Twitter schmidtter not. I mean, Twitter 378 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: is it's it's still kind of we should start schmitter 379 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: for people who don't care about social media. For people 380 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: who don't care about Twitter, that's where you can tweet 381 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: about how much you dislike Twitter. Come over to Twitter. 382 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: But um no, I I was something I've noticed as 383 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: not being the most active social media participant, the most 384 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: active blog participant, is that Twitter a lot of social media, 385 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: but it seems like Twitter in particular, it's sort of 386 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: this cradle of negativity and black holes for really distressing conversations. 387 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, we are who we are, 388 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: so we need to talk about feminism obviously, in this 389 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 1: little microcosm of a universe, and um, a lot of 390 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: people have gotten into arguments about feminism on Twitter and 391 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: then arguments about those arguments and then blogged about it. Yeah. 392 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: A lot of this started with a piece written by 393 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: Michelle Goldberg for The Nation called Twitter's Toxic Feminism Wars, 394 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: And when it first popped up in my feed, I 395 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: immediately I wanted to read it because I knew exactly 396 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: just from the headline what it was going to be about. 397 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: Because there is a lot of infighting that happens within 398 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: feminist circles on Twitter, which some of some of which 399 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: can be very productive. We did an entire episode all 400 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: around the hashtag solidarities for white women and the idea of, 401 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, being more aware of white privilege and intersectionality 402 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: within feminism and how important it is to always keep 403 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: diversity in mind and realize that my experience and the 404 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: lens that I am looking through is going to be 405 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: different than your experienced Caroline, is going to be different 406 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: from trans woman's experience, etcetera. Um, But it can also 407 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: quickly dissolve these Twitter wars as some people call them 408 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: into just meanss. Yeah, lots of sniping at each other 409 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: and and part of the beauty of Twitter, which is 410 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: you get to say these things, have these quick hits 411 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,959 Speaker 1: to make your point, quickly linked to something, and get 412 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: a million people to look at it. That's the beauty 413 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 1: of Twitter. But it's also the downfall of a lot 414 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: of these conversations, because if I'm trying to have a 415 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: serious conversation with you about feminism, Twitter just does not 416 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: seem like the best venue for it. And and it 417 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: seems like, you know, the way that when we were 418 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: twelve years old and we were on a O L 419 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: instant messenger, and I might say something to you, Kristen, 420 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: and you might take it as like really abrupt, and 421 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I didn't mean it like that. It's 422 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: the same thing for text messages, and now it's the 423 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: same thing for Twitter. And I feel like, if you're 424 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: trying to have a productive conversation, you might say something. 425 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: You might instigate something accidentally, or you might instigate something 426 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: on purpose. I don't know. Yeah, I mean that's that's 427 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: the thing about this whole conversation about women in Twitter, 428 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: is that we need to recognize the potential power in 429 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: a good way that we have by so many of 430 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: us being on there, but also that hackneyed phrase about 431 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: great power and great responsibility, and maybe once these conversations 432 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: start popping up, instead of talking at someone, if it's 433 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: possible to do this on Twitter, to actually talk to someone. 434 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: And what one point that I feel like a couple 435 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: of people have made that I find interesting is just 436 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: the idea about like protecting some ideal feminism, like like 437 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: you're not you're not a good enough feminist because you're 438 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: fill in the blank, or no, you're not a good 439 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: enough feminist. You're too exclusive, or you too inclusive, or 440 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: you're not you know. I just feel like Twitter. I 441 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: feel like Twitter, in my very like limited experience, I 442 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: feel like Twitter is almost detrimental to some of these 443 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: conversations because it leads a lot of women of various 444 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 1: backgrounds to feel like they can't participate in conversation right, 445 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: because the great part about Twitter is that you can 446 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: spread the word so quickly about something. I mean, think 447 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: about how with the Twitter origin story, how they knew 448 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: they were onto something special, partially when the word one 449 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 1: word of that San Francisco earthquake was able to spread 450 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: as quickly as it did through this new tool. And 451 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: that's part of the power of being able to have 452 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: these massive conversations on this platform is that it is 453 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: so real time and it is legitimately like back and 454 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: forth as though you were having a face to face conversation. 455 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: But there's also that crowd effect of you know, the 456 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: dog piling that can happen on there, and I don't know, 457 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: I mean, like thinking about how Twitter is also a 458 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: site for some people where there's massive cyber bullying that 459 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: goes on and there's a whole lot of trolling, and 460 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: if you are a woman on the internet, Twitter can 461 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: be a very unfriendly place just by virtue of attracting 462 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: people who are who want to find you and like 463 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: tell you all sorts of horrible things that it's disheartening 464 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:24,239 Speaker 1: when even among your so called allies, you're engaging in 465 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: fights perhaps rather than you know, progressing forward. Does that 466 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: make sense? And we shouldn't say that, you know, the 467 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: women only use Twitter for bad We're not just talking 468 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: about our families, fashion and how you're a bad feminist. 469 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: There are lots of, you know, powerful initiatives that have happened. Misrepresentation. 470 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: Off the top of my head is one organization that 471 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: has done a great job utilizing the power of its 472 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: hashtag not buying it to call out sexist products or 473 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: movies or things like that, to to spread awareness and 474 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: actually get companies to remove certain things. Well, that Twitter 475 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: hashtag not buying it caught on so strongly. They now 476 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: have an app where you can take pictures of something 477 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: while you're out at the grocery store or whatever and 478 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: hashtag not buying it, and then you can choose to 479 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 1: share it on very social media. Yeah. And um, hollow 480 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: Back is an organization. Um that. It's an anti street 481 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: harassment organization that often uses Twitter in a way for 482 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, women to share their experiences or share resources. 483 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: There's a lot of good that can happen. I think 484 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: it's just the nature of the Internet though, that the 485 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: negative side gets so much more spotlight sometimes than the 486 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: positive side. Well, so much more spotlight, but also so many, 487 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: like you said, so many more people piling on to it. 488 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: You know. It's it's you know, fights attract fights almost yeah, 489 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: I mean, and for better or worse and so many 490 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: times for words. The digital world is often a realm 491 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: of extremes where you only attract people who really really 492 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: love you and want to tell you how much they 493 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,959 Speaker 1: love you or people who really really hate you and 494 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: tell you how much they hate you. Not that we've 495 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: ever noticed that in YouTube comments or anything like that. 496 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,479 Speaker 1: Um well, I mean twenty there's like of Twitter users 497 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: never tweet. Yeah, there are lots of There are lots 498 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: of lurkers at christ and Conger is not a super 499 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: active Twitter account. I gotta go through spurts. But you 500 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: can kind of make it whatever you want. It can 501 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: be like solely a news aggregator, or a way that 502 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: you talk to your friends around the world or just away. 503 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: I know some people who only follow comedians. I mean, 504 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: it's what, it's kind of whatever you want it to be, right, 505 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: But the fact that it is something that can be 506 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: an incubator for movements like solidarity is for white women, 507 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: for hollyback for not buying it. I mean, I think 508 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: that's a valuable tool. I do. I do feel sad 509 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: about the state of some of the feminist comm were stations, 510 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: or so called feminist conversations that happen on Twitter. I 511 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: think that you know, as as in any venue, not 512 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: just Twitter, but in real life I r L or 513 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: on Facebook or wherever you know. I think that sometimes 514 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: there is too much of a focus on you're doing 515 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: feminism wrong instead of I'm supporting my fellow women, right. 516 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: But what would you say after reading all of this 517 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: about Twitter from the corporate end of it, where clearly 518 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: we do need more women in leadership and this is 519 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: not just uh knee jerk parity thing. I mean, there 520 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: are so many studies that we can cite talking about 521 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: how more women in top management positions typically leads to 522 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: more returns for those investors. Um. And simply the issue 523 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: of you know, wanting to know your user base, so 524 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: why don't you have more women in key positions of power? Um? 525 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: But knowing what you know about Twitter, Caroline, what would 526 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: you say to people who think that it's a frivolous conversation? 527 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: People who are who do want to join schmitter or Twitter? 528 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: Sorry Nott Schmitter. Um, I I see why you would 529 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: want to join Twitter. It's very important to make sure 530 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: we get the debut sound in there. But Twitter, But 531 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: like you said, I mean, Twitter is what you make it. 532 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: You can follow a lot of like really like yelling 533 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: people or just comedians or just whoever. Um, But I 534 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: think that Twitter can be super productive as a way 535 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: to raise awareness for important things. If that's how you 536 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: so choose to use it. And I would argue that 537 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: it's more of the future. If you want to be 538 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: on the cusp, go where the young folk are and 539 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: guess what old It's not Facebook. And I count myself 540 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,479 Speaker 1: among the olds at this point. Well, yeah, and I 541 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: would reckon. I would reckon that Twitter is gaining in 542 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: popularity among younger people because all of our parents and 543 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: grandparents around Facebook now, and also Facebook's culture is to 544 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: lock it down, have it private, only friends can see 545 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: what you write, whereas Twitter is very much more of 546 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: an open conversation, maybe a social tool, maybe an organizational tool. 547 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: You're not going to try to get well, you can 548 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: have a Facebook event whatever, blah blah blah, but you know, 549 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: Twitter is very much a different feel and for a 550 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: different purpose than Facebook. Yeah. I just I'm almost sad, 551 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: and I'm sure our audience is not sad that we 552 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: didn't go into looking at younger groups on Twitter. And 553 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: for I'm thinking specifically of justin Bieber fans in one 554 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: direction fans and just the massive like trends that they 555 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: can set on Twitter in one day, just with their 556 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: own hashtags that they start in support of their pop crushes. 557 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: I mean that's the thing about Twitter. It's like it's 558 00:33:54,760 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: making celebrity access even more open than ever before. So 559 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: I mean, whether you like it or not, I think 560 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: Twitter is absolutely influencing our culture. And since it is 561 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: the anniversary of the first tweet, or around the anniversary 562 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: of the first tweet, we just wanted to take a 563 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: moment and look at how women play on this social 564 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: media landscape. Yeah, so I would love to hear from listeners. 565 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: Have you gotten into productive conversations or unproductive conversations, whether 566 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: about feminism or not. Has has Twitter been a helpful 567 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: tool for you or have you run up against a 568 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: lot of negativity? Hey, and be sure to follow us 569 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: or tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast. And if you 570 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: want to follow me, I'm at Kristen Conger and Caroline 571 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: you are at the Caroline erv So tweet us, hashtag us, 572 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: retweet us, you know all of those Twitter things that 573 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: you can do. And before we sign off, we've got 574 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: a couple of letters to share with you right now. Well, 575 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: I've got an email here from Denver about our episode 576 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: in the Mysterious Case of the convul Singing Cheerleaders. Denver 577 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: Rights Love the podcast Longtime listener. I usually listen when 578 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: I'm on my way to work or running. As I 579 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: was recently listening to your podcast The Mysterious Case of 580 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: Convulsive Cheerleaders, I couldn't help but think of the classic 581 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: Josh Swheeden tale of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the 582 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: musical from I think it was the sixth season. It 583 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: was called Once More with Feeling. I wasn't a Buffy devotee, 584 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: but did thoroughly enjoy the self effacing humor of the musical. 585 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: The story is that people mysteriously start bursting into song 586 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: and dance in the streets, and Team Buffy is trying 587 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,439 Speaker 1: to figure out what is causing it. The association isn't 588 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: hurt by the fact that Buffy herself was a cheerleader. 589 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Daryl. I don't know if Josh Sweden 590 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: was aware of the history behind mass hysteria, but it 591 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: fits in nicely. And as you were going through the 592 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: theories explaining mass hysteria, one song in particular came to mind, 593 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: called I've Got a Theory. I could just see you 594 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: both exchanging researched ideas on why this happens and seeing 595 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: to each other while doing so that's so weird because 596 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: that's how we do it. Know. Yeah, we usually prep 597 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: with a song and dance an old saw shoe tap routine. God, 598 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: I wish so I have a letter here from Amy. 599 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: She says the podcast about mass hysteria was very interesting 600 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: to me. As soon as I saw the title, I 601 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: immediately thought about my high school. When I was in 602 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: eleventh grade, a bunch of the cheerleaders in my class 603 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: started having weird arm twitches. I remember girls walking around 604 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: with twitching arms and getting up in the middle of 605 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: class in tears to run to the nurse when it 606 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: started up. I always thought they were faking it for attention, 607 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: but after hearing this, I believe that it was really 608 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: genuine mass hysteria. The school authorities made them stop practicing 609 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,439 Speaker 1: for a while because they thought they were working too 610 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: hard to win it nationals. That's pretty much made it 611 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: worse because it made them stressed out about competition. Anyway, 612 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: love the show and I think you both are fun 613 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: to listen to, and Amy, you're fun to read stuff from. 614 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,879 Speaker 1: So thank you and thanks to everybody who's written into us. 615 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at Discovery dot Com is our email address, 616 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: and if you want to find us on social or 617 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: if you want to find all of our podcast, blogs 618 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,760 Speaker 1: and videos, you can head right on over to stuff 619 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for more on this 620 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works 621 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: dot com. 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