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Speaker 1: Get in touch technology with tech Stuff from how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to text Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland, senior writer for how stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com, and today's episode is going to be

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Speaker 1: about the concept of net neutrality and the battle of

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Speaker 1: the nature of the Internet itself. Now, this is a

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Speaker 1: complicated topic, particularly since the Internet is a global system

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Speaker 1: and different countries deal with this in different ways. As

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Speaker 1: per usual, I'll be focusing on the United States in

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Speaker 1: this episode as that is where I am from. It

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Speaker 1: is also the birthplace of the Internet itself. But keep

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Speaker 1: in mind that net neutrality is an issue that is

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Speaker 1: dealt with in various ways all around the world. Some

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Speaker 1: countries are a little more um a man double to

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Speaker 1: net neutrality than others. Some countries are infamously about as

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Speaker 1: far away from net neutrality as you can get, like China,

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Speaker 1: for example, in the Great Firewall there. But we're gonna

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Speaker 1: focus mostly on the US. Also, I should add that

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Speaker 1: I have covered this topic a few times before. If

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Speaker 1: you'd like to listen to earlier episodes of tech Stuff

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Speaker 1: in which I go into further detail for some of

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Speaker 1: the concepts i'll talk about today, You can check out

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Speaker 1: the following shows. The first is How Net Neutrality Works,

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Speaker 1: which published way back in December two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: That means that was in the first six months of

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff and it shows, but it also has my

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Speaker 1: former co host Chris Palette on there, and together we

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Speaker 1: try to explain what that neutrality is all about and

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Speaker 1: why it was such a contentious topic then and even

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Speaker 1: more so now, you could argue. Next, I have The

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Speaker 1: War on Net Neutrality, which published on February twelve, two

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Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, so much more recent, And then almost a

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Speaker 1: year later, on February nine, two thousand fifteen, we published

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Speaker 1: the episode what is a Common Carrier, which talked about

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Speaker 1: the FCCS decision to change the classification of Internet service

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Speaker 1: providers into common carriers. Uh, if you want to know

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Speaker 1: more about that, you can check out those episodes. I'll

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Speaker 1: cover some of that today because it's impossible to talk

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Speaker 1: about this topic and get you guys up to speed

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Speaker 1: without covering that. But if you want to look at

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Speaker 1: more specifics, check out those episodes. So, the battle of

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Speaker 1: net neutrality has been making headlines again recently, which is

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Speaker 1: the reason why I'm recording this, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: a topic that not everyone totally grasps. So today we're

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Speaker 1: going to cover the basic definitions for net neutrality. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about the different entities that are in disagreement

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Speaker 1: over net neutrality and their arguments and where things seem

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Speaker 1: to be headed. And I should also point out that

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Speaker 1: I record Tech Stuff episodes about a month before they

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Speaker 1: come out, so it is entirely possible that some of

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Speaker 1: the stuff I covered today will already be a bit

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Speaker 1: out of date by the time the show publishes. But

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Speaker 1: you can always tune in to watch me do a

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Speaker 1: show live on twitch dot tv slash tech Stuff, except

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Speaker 1: for today when it isn't working, but most days it

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Speaker 1: is working and you can check me out. Just go

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Speaker 1: to twitch dot tv slash tech Stuff and you'll find

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Speaker 1: a schedule when I stream and record the show. All right,

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Speaker 1: enough of all that, let's talk about the Internet. It's

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Speaker 1: a little box with a light on top, and it's

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Speaker 1: stored at the top of Big Ben according to the

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Speaker 1: I T crowd. All right, but before there was even

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Speaker 1: an Internet, there was the ARPA net. Now, this was

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Speaker 1: a project launched by ARPA. ARPA was the Advanced Research

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Speaker 1: Projects Agency. Today we call it DARPA. The D stands

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Speaker 1: for Defense, so now it's the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency.

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Speaker 1: DERBA is in charge of research and development for the

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Speaker 1: Department of Defense in the United States, and they look

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Speaker 1: at lots of different things that could potentially have use

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Speaker 1: in matters of defense. It doesn't necessarily have to be

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Speaker 1: the primary purpose for it, but that's always part of it.

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Speaker 1: So some other big DARPA initiatives besides the ARPA NET

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Speaker 1: include the driverless car initiative, which is what really got

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Speaker 1: us into the early days of autonomous cars. Google's driverless

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Speaker 1: car really got its start as a project under this

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Speaker 1: uh there was a team from Stanford that competed in

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Speaker 1: a DARPA Grand Challenge, and a lot of those folks

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Speaker 1: went on to work for Google. But there are other

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Speaker 1: ones as well, including some interesting stuff about ways to

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Speaker 1: bio hack a brain so that you can learn better.

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Speaker 1: You'll have to check out Forward Thinking to learn more

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Speaker 1: about that. But ARPA was really interested in developing technologies

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Speaker 1: that would allow computer systems to communicate with each other.

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Speaker 1: This would obviously increase the value and power of computer systems.

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Speaker 1: If you could have different research facilities that are across

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Speaker 1: the United States from one another sending information back and

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Speaker 1: forth via computer directly. Then that would be a very

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Speaker 1: powerful tool. And uh, ultimately you could even see other

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Speaker 1: applications such as having a decentralized network where if part

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Speaker 1: of the network were to fail for some reason, let's

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Speaker 1: say there was a massive power failure on part of

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Speaker 1: the United States, the rest of the network could continue

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Speaker 1: to function, but they needed to invent it. There wasn't

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Speaker 1: anything in place at that time that could allow it,

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Speaker 1: and so to do this they had to hire a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of really smart people to design the algorithms

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Speaker 1: and protocols that would allow for communication even between computers

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Speaker 1: that didn't use the same programming languages. So, in other words,

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Speaker 1: if you had two different computers that worked on vastly

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Speaker 1: different architectures and languages, you still had to be able

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Speaker 1: to let them communicate with each other. So you had

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Speaker 1: to invent kind of a common set of rules that

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Speaker 1: both could follow and have meaningful communication. So these techniques

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Speaker 1: eventually would evolve into the foundation for the Internet itself, um,

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Speaker 1: although some of them would go through many evolutions before

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Speaker 1: they turned into the stuff that is, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of the the software backbone for the Internet. Now, this

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Speaker 1: entire project started here in the United States, and that's

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Speaker 1: kind of why I mentioned the US is where the

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Speaker 1: Internet was born, because the Arpanet was sort of a

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Speaker 1: predecessor to the Internet UH and eventually was incorporated into

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Speaker 1: the Internet in some extent to some extent rather and

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Speaker 1: UH before it was dismantled officially, it was in the

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Speaker 1: U S where engineers built this technology that makes the

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Speaker 1: Internet possible. Though it's important to point out that other

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Speaker 1: key elements of today's Internet, such as the Worldwide Web,

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Speaker 1: those originated in other countries. So it's not like the

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Speaker 1: US had a lock on all things Internet, but this

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Speaker 1: is where it got its start. Now, one thing that's

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Speaker 1: our relatively simple concept is just the basic idea of

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Speaker 1: net neutrality. The term was popularized and possibly coined by

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Speaker 1: Tim Wu who is a law professor, although originally it

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Speaker 1: was called network neutrality. He wrote a paper in two

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Speaker 1: thousand three about this idea, and he defined it in

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Speaker 1: terms of assuming a non discriminatory stance on Internet traffic

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Speaker 1: at the Internet service provider level. So that's a fancy

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Speaker 1: way of saying that Internet service providers I s p

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Speaker 1: s the companies that actually provide the access to the

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Speaker 1: Internet so that you can get on there and watch

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Speaker 1: your YouTube videos and subscribe to your podcasts, and do

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Speaker 1: your work and send your email and all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. They wouldn't be allowed to discriminate against any

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Speaker 1: type of traffic, no matter where it was coming from,

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Speaker 1: if they were part of the Internet. That's the idea

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Speaker 1: of net neutrality. Everyone plays fair. Everyone allows everyone else

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Speaker 1: to UH to send information across the networks. Otherwise than

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Speaker 1: the Internet breaks. If you don't have net neutrality, then

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Speaker 1: you have all these different UH relationships between entities that

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Speaker 1: make it difficult, if not impossible, to operate the Internet

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Speaker 1: in a reasonable fashion. So net neutrality in part is

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Speaker 1: kind of a necessity, at least at a certain level. Now.

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Speaker 1: Lawrence Lessig, who's a Harvard law professor, said net neutrality

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Speaker 1: was all about single principle he called E two E

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Speaker 1: and that's E the numeral two and the letter E

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Speaker 1: again that stands for end to end. So in other words,

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Speaker 1: he's saying, it doesn't matter what entities you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a server and a server, whether it's an

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Speaker 1: I s P and an I s P, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a computer and a web server or a handheld device

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Speaker 1: like a smartphone and an application and server. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter what the entities are. It should just be neutral.

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Speaker 1: The Internet should be a dumb neutral conduit for information,

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Speaker 1: no matter whether information starts or ends its journey. In practice,

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Speaker 1: this means that you, as an Internet user, should be

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Speaker 1: able to access any and all information without discrimination. Now,

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Speaker 1: one little complication in this is that not all information

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Speaker 1: is strictly legal, at least not in every country, or

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Speaker 1: it might be illegal to distribute the information. Maybe saying

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Speaker 1: the information is illegal itself is a little weird, but

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Speaker 1: it's illegal to distribute it uh, or, as is more

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Speaker 1: common in the United States, some uses of the Internet

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Speaker 1: are illegal because they involve other illegal activities. So using

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Speaker 1: the Internet to sell illegal goods like weapons or drugs

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Speaker 1: without the proper licensing and the proper authorization, that would

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Speaker 1: be a good example there. So those would be exceptions

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Speaker 1: to of this idea. But let's eliminate all the illegal

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Speaker 1: stuff for the time being and just talk about legal data.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna make an assumption that the information we're talking

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Speaker 1: about for most of this podcast is all on the

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Speaker 1: up and up. So this isn't like stolen information. It's

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Speaker 1: not uh, you know, illegal for other means, it's standard

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Speaker 1: stuff and it should be treated neutral e. Net neutrality

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Speaker 1: is a state in which all of this data gets

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Speaker 1: treated the same way. None of it gets preferential treatment,

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Speaker 1: none of it gets penalized. So it shouldn't matter what

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Speaker 1: sort of device you use to access the Internet, whatever

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Speaker 1: it is, it should work just fine on every I

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Speaker 1: s P. That's another aspect of net neutrality. Whether it's

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Speaker 1: a laptop, a desktop, tablet, smartphone, console, or other device,

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Speaker 1: you should be able to connect it to the Internet,

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Speaker 1: assuming of course, that the device itself isn't breaking any laws,

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Speaker 1: or there's not some other issue like you're trying to

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Speaker 1: overload the network or whatever. Net neutrality covers all of

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Speaker 1: those different aspects. You should be able to act, says,

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Speaker 1: any information originating from any web server, on any device,

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Speaker 1: on any network. Now, the history of net neutrality has

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Speaker 1: been a really bumpy one. Back in two thousand seven,

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Speaker 1: the Associated Press published accusations that Comcast, a major Internet

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Speaker 1: service provider here in the United States, have been blocking

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Speaker 1: some customers from using BitTorrent software to download videos, and

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Speaker 1: that Comcast really wanted to stifle anything that competed with

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Speaker 1: its own video on demand service. So using BitTorrent by

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Speaker 1: itself is not illegal. You could use BitTorrent to download

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Speaker 1: perfectly legal content. Let's say that someone has produced a

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Speaker 1: video that isn't isn't violating copyright law. It's their own

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Speaker 1: original work and they've decided they wanted to distribute it

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Speaker 1: via BitTorrent. BitTorrent is just ap peer to peer sharing service.

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Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with the actual content, sort

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Speaker 1: of like the Internet itself. You wouldn't say the Internet

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Speaker 1: is all about ending illegal stuff from one place to another,

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Speaker 1: even though a lot of people use the Internet to

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Speaker 1: do that. That's not what the Internet actually is. The

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Speaker 1: same is true for bit Torrent. BitTorrent is a method

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Speaker 1: of sending information using peer to peer networks. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily mean that you're using it to steal stuff. Well,

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Speaker 1: Comcast was being accused of throttling the data transfers of

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Speaker 1: people using BitTorrent software. Essentially, the accusation said, Comcast detected

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Speaker 1: these customers, Comcast customers, we're using bit torrent software. They

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Speaker 1: were connecting with other bit torrent users, and so they

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Speaker 1: would find their connections slowed down dramatically whenever they were

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Speaker 1: using BitTorrent, And meanwhile Comcast was pushing its own video

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Speaker 1: on demand service saying, hey, you should just buy the

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Speaker 1: videos straight from US. Public interest groups would eventually get

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Speaker 1: in touch with the f c C here in the

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Speaker 1: United States, the FCC kind of sort of oversaw I

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Speaker 1: s p S. And I say kind of sort of

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Speaker 1: because at the time there wasn't a real strong argument

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Speaker 1: to be made that the FCC had that sort of domain.

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Speaker 1: It was sort of in their domain, but there were

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Speaker 1: no formal laws or regulations that put the FCC in charge. Now,

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Speaker 1: the FCC argued that Comcast, which was supposed to act

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Speaker 1: as a neutral carrier of information, was using anti competitive

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Speaker 1: practices to suppress a competing service. And so there was

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Speaker 1: a vote and the f c C passed a three

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Speaker 1: to two vote against Comcasts. So f CC's board, as

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Speaker 1: you know, five members, and what they would vote on

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Speaker 1: these issues about whether or not a company had violated

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Speaker 1: some rule or regulation and then determine what what steps

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Speaker 1: should be taken in response to that. In this case,

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Speaker 1: it was a close vote three to two. Two Democrats

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Speaker 1: majority Republican board at that time. So the f c

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Speaker 1: C said to Comcast, hey stop it, use guys, but

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Speaker 1: they didn't find Comcasts. They just demanded that Comcast halt

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Speaker 1: this behavior, that they stopped throttling customers. Comcasts response was

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Speaker 1: you aren't the boss of me, and I'm gonna sue you.

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Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened. So this lawsuit last several

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Speaker 1: years and in two a federal court dismissed the fccs

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Speaker 1: earlier ruling. Now why did they do that, Well, the

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Speaker 1: FCC was claiming that under Title one of a Communications

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Speaker 1: Act they would be able to do this, but it

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Speaker 1: really was a pretty loose interpretation of the law, and

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Speaker 1: the federal court said the FCC just did not have

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Speaker 1: the authority to slap Comcasts risks in the first place.

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Speaker 1: So even though Comcast wasn't fined, the essentially what the

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Speaker 1: federal court was say was, you can't even reprimand Comcast,

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Speaker 1: you don't have that authority. You're not you're not in

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Speaker 1: charge of this. Uh. It would be like someone you

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Speaker 1: know telling you that you need to pull over for speeding,

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Speaker 1: but they're not a police officer. It would be weird.

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Speaker 1: It's not really their job. Well, later that year, the

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Speaker 1: f c C passed some official regulations on net neutrality.

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Speaker 1: So essentially, what the FCC was trying to do was say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we totally have the authority to do this. They were

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Speaker 1: attempting to codify rules they had set up for real zes.

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Speaker 1: But then Verizon sued the f c C and said,

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Speaker 1: you can't do that. You don't have the authority to

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Speaker 1: set these regulations, and you're passing rules that you don't

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Speaker 1: get to pass, so stop it now. The Federal Court

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Speaker 1: agreed once again with the industry and said the FCC

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Speaker 1: does not have that authority now. Eventually, this led to

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Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on the FCC to create real

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Speaker 1: rules for net neutrality deep and there was talk for

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Speaker 1: a while of something that was more of a conciliatory approach,

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Speaker 1: but the Obama administration in two thousand and fourteen put

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Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on the FCC to draw up

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Speaker 1: more stringent rules about net neutrality, and so that eventually

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Speaker 1: led to the Open Internet Order of I'm gonna talk

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Speaker 1: more about that later in this episode and give you

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Speaker 1: more details about what that Open Internet Order really was

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Speaker 1: all about. But The important thing to remember right now

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Speaker 1: is that the industry responded by challenging this order and

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Speaker 1: trying to take it to courts, but so far the

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Speaker 1: courts have upheld the FCCS ruling. They said that everything

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Speaker 1: is technically legal here with a recent court decision declining

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Speaker 1: to re hear the arguments. So essentially, the industry appealed

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Speaker 1: this decision. The higher court said, no, we're not gonna

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Speaker 1: bother listening to this because we agree with the lower court,

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Speaker 1: or rather, we don't see an to re hear this case.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of big is s p s got

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Speaker 1: a little mad about this, and there's now a move

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Speaker 1: to move this case all the way up to the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court. Now, in addition, with a change of administrations

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Speaker 1: in the United States government, you may have heard something

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Speaker 1: about that over the last year or so, we're looking

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Speaker 1: at yet another revision of the rules. But I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get into all of that a bit later in

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Speaker 1: this podcast. Now, the reason all of this is important

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Speaker 1: is because the Internet is a network of networks. That's

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Speaker 1: how it started and that's what it is now. Although

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Speaker 1: the details have changed significantly. The network of networks doesn't

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Speaker 1: work exactly the same way it did when the Internet

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Speaker 1: was a brand new, little baby. You could make a

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Speaker 1: persuasive argument that the old definition of net neutrality isn't

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Speaker 1: really an accurate argument to make these days. And that's

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Speaker 1: because many entities like Google or Amazon or Netflix have

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Speaker 1: their systems embedded into the infrastructure on the Internet in

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Speaker 1: ways that weren't the case in the early days. So

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Speaker 1: this gets back to Internet service providers. These networks that

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Speaker 1: allow the connections of customers, whether those customers are people

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Speaker 1: like you and me, if their businesses, if there are

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Speaker 1: other I s p s that are lowered down on

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Speaker 1: the chain, they there. These are the companies that allow

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Speaker 1: the inner connections on the Internet. So let's take a

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Speaker 1: look at how things used to be and compared to

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Speaker 1: how things are now to kind of understand why the

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Speaker 1: argument of net neutrality is changing a little bit. First

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Speaker 1: of all, no one owns the Internet as a whole,

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Speaker 1: because the Internet is a bunch of different components owned

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Speaker 1: by a bunch of different companies. So it's it's not

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Speaker 1: like a car where you could have one person be

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Speaker 1: the owner, or even one person to be the manufacturer.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a huge complicated machine and different intoities

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Speaker 1: own different parts of this machine. No one has the

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Speaker 1: say of how it should be run. Like there's no

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Speaker 1: one who has controlling interest in the Internet, but the

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Speaker 1: actual infrastructure is owned by a bunch of different companies

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Speaker 1: and other entities. Internet service providers run the networks that

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Speaker 1: allow customers to connect transmit received data over the Internet.

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Speaker 1: So if each I s P was totally independent, as

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Speaker 1: in it was its own network and it did not

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Speaker 1: have any connectivity to other networks, so this is not

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Speaker 1: an Internet, this is just a a single network, well,

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Speaker 1: you would only be able to access the stuff that

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Speaker 1: was connected through that specific I s P. So let's

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Speaker 1: say you are a customer of I s P A,

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Speaker 1: but Netflix was only on I s P B. Well,

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Speaker 1: that would mean you wouldn't be able to watch Netflix. Fortunately,

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Speaker 1: the Internet is the network of all these networks together,

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Speaker 1: and so they connect to each other through network access

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Speaker 1: points or n A P S naps. Man and NAP

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Speaker 1: sounds good right about now? Well, naps are exchanges that

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Speaker 1: allow traffic to switch from one network to another in

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Speaker 1: its journey from origin to destination. So using the Internet,

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Speaker 1: you could watch Netflix even if you're on I s

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Speaker 1: P A. Netflix is on I s p B. When

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Speaker 1: you send that request, it goes through one of these

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Speaker 1: network access points, switches over from one network to another,

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Speaker 1: gets the go ahead from the server on I s

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Speaker 1: p B. The information is sent back more or less

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Speaker 1: in a reverse path from the one that your request took.

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Speaker 1: Keeping in mind that the way the Internet works, the

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Speaker 1: information branches out in all sorts of different ways. It's

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Speaker 1: not like it's a single pathway from point A to

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Speaker 1: point B and you would still be able to watch it.

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Speaker 1: That's in the old days. Uh. These naps are exchanges

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Speaker 1: that allow all that journey to happen, you know, for

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Speaker 1: the data to switch from one network to another. Routers

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Speaker 1: are the devices that take care of traffic control, sending

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Speaker 1: data where it's need and not sending it where it

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Speaker 1: is not needed. That's equally important because you don't want

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Speaker 1: to have superfluous data running around the Internet gumming things up.

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Speaker 1: There is a limited carrying capacity to the Internet. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's huge, but you know, if you were to send

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Speaker 1: an enormous amount of data to a very specific section

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Speaker 1: of the Internet at a specific time, you could overload things.

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Speaker 1: You can make stuff slow down, you can make systems crash,

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Speaker 1: so rollers are very important to make sure that that

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Speaker 1: data is going where it needs to go and only

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Speaker 1: where it needs to go. In the early days the Internet,

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Speaker 1: there were hundreds of companies that were interconnected to create

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Speaker 1: this network, and the distribution of traffic was pretty you know, decent,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty even. There weren't a few, just a few

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Speaker 1: entities dominating traffic across the Internet. It was distributed fairly evenly,

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Speaker 1: and that neutrality was real concerned because if someone didn't

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Speaker 1: play ball, it kind of ruined it for everyone else. Well,

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Speaker 1: I got more to say about the basics of the

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Speaker 1: Internet and how net neutrality plays into it, but before

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Speaker 1: I jump into more of that, let's take a quick

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Speaker 1: break to thank our sponsor. Okay, Now, for the Internet

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Speaker 1: to work, these various Internet service providers have to agree

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Speaker 1: to carry each other's traffic, and typically we call this

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Speaker 1: process peering, where companies will peer with one another, whether

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Speaker 1: it's two I s p s or an I s

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Speaker 1: P and an edge provider. Edge providers being like the

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Speaker 1: content providers that are creating the stuff that people are

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Speaker 1: actually trying to access. So the I s P s

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Speaker 1: you can think of that as like almost like a

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Speaker 1: highway system and the the edge providers being like all

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Speaker 1: the stuff along the highways that you want to go to,

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Speaker 1: and peering involves drawing up an agreement where the various

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Speaker 1: decent question will allow for the transfer of data coming

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Speaker 1: from one source to pass over to the other source,

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Speaker 1: for one network to pass over into the other network. Basically,

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Speaker 1: if you were a smaller Internet service provider, you would

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Speaker 1: have to pay a certain amount per chunk of data

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Speaker 1: up to larger Internet service providers that are further upstream

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Speaker 1: of you. If a smaller I s P gets big enough,

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Speaker 1: if it grows over time, it could end up creating

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Speaker 1: that same arrangement with smaller I s p s that

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Speaker 1: are downstream of it, and it could arrange for a

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Speaker 1: more favorable rate with the larger upstream I s p s.

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Speaker 1: If it got big enough, it could have the leverage

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, let's rework this deal, or even if

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Speaker 1: they got big enough, arrange for free transfers of data

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Speaker 1: if the size and traffic between the two I s

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Speaker 1: p s is similar enough. Alright, so let's say that

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Speaker 1: you are the head of a big old Internet corporation

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Speaker 1: and your company has assets and several different parts of

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Speaker 1: the Internet so your computers and connections make up to

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Speaker 1: the Internet's backbone, and data crosses over your machines all

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Speaker 1: the time, so you are actually part of the infrastructure

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Speaker 1: that information uses in order to get from point A

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Speaker 1: to point B. Some of that data comes from you,

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Speaker 1: so you happen to have stuff within your own network

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Speaker 1: that you can deliver to people who are on your network. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you have your own servers services, maybe you have like

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Speaker 1: an email client, maybe some website sites, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of data actually comes from other sources, including people who

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Speaker 1: are in direct competition with you. Now, wouldn't it be

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Speaker 1: nice if you're the head of this large corporation if

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Speaker 1: you could steer people to using your own in house

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Speaker 1: products like your email services, your websites, etcetera, rather than

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Speaker 1: a competitor's services. You could have people use your email client,

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Speaker 1: visit your streaming video service, and go to your web

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Speaker 1: pages for news. You'd collect revenue from that through ads

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Speaker 1: served against the services. You'd end up saving money because

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Speaker 1: people are coming to you run then you going to them.

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Speaker 1: You can discourage people from using competitors products as a result,

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Speaker 1: or you could do something else, maybe you charge your

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Speaker 1: competitors a hefty premium to get access to customers on

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Speaker 1: your network. So you're the head of is s P

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Speaker 1: A and I s p B comes to you and says, hey,

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Speaker 1: we've got a lot of customers who want to access

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Speaker 1: these servers. Those servers are part of your network. What

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Speaker 1: do we have to do to make that happen? And

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Speaker 1: you say, well, uh, you'll have to pay me. If

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Speaker 1: you don't pay me, I'll make sure it's a super

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Speaker 1: slow connection and your customers will be able to access

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Speaker 1: the information, but it will be a very negative experience.

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Speaker 1: They will hate it, it will take forever, it will

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Speaker 1: buffer a lot for streaming video, or you know, you

433
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: pony up the cash and then everyone's gonna get super

434
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: fast internet access from me. It's gonna be awesome. So um,

435
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: if you were to say, hey, Netflix, I'm happy to

436
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: send people Season two a fuller house, but if you

437
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: want them to have a good experience, you got a

438
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: pony up that cash so the stream get the fast

439
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: length of traffic. Otherwise I'm just gonna throw all that data,

440
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 1: keep it on my own network, keep everything nice and clear,

441
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: and your customers will experience lots of buffering issues and

442
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: then everyone's gonna say, hey, why are we even using

443
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: this I s P. Let's use this other I s P.

444
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: Because I hear that I can watch Fuller House with

445
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: less buffering, And Jesse is gonna say, oh, mercy, well,

446
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: how am I going to see that if I'm not

447
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: logged in? But that would violate the spirit of the

448
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: net neutrality. If you gave your own data preferential treatment

449
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: and allowed it to stream faster to customers, and you

450
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: throttled anything from your competitors, then people using your service

451
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't have fair equal access to all information on the

452
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 1: Internet when using your network. And that's how a lot

453
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: of people frame the net neutrality argument these days, that

454
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: there's just this one big problem with that framing. It's

455
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: not really an accurate description of what's actually happening. On

456
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: a large scale. Over time, a relatively small number of

457
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: companies began to dominate the amount of traffic that was

458
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: moving across the Internet. In other words, a smaller number

459
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: of companies were creating a larger amount of the data

460
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 1: that gets shuffled around across the Internet. Big companies like Google, Netflix,

461
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: and other major players began to establish what are called

462
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: content delivery networks or c d NS now content delivery

463
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: network is a network of computer servers that are within

464
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: an I s P S network and they can deliver

465
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: specific content directly to that I s P S customers

466
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: without the need for traveling across appeared network from another

467
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: I s P. So, going back to I s P

468
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: A versus I s P B, if you build a

469
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: c d N in both of those I s P

470
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: S networks, so you've got one in I s P

471
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: A and one in I s P B, those respective

472
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 1: Internet service provider customers can access your services very very

473
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: quickly because you've you've placed them close to the destination,

474
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: close to being a relative term, because we're talking about uh,

475
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, networks which are not really it's not analogous

476
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: to a physical location. But if you have it within

477
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: that I s P there are fewer gateways to have

478
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: to pass through, so you speed up the process. You

479
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: create a better user experience, especially for stuff that uses

480
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: a lot of data and needs to stream very quickly.

481
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: So stuff like ultra high definition video, you obviously want

482
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: that to get to your customers as quickly as it can.

483
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: Otherwise you've got lots of buffering issues, and that's not

484
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: a very good experience from a consumer point of view.

485
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: So if you're someone like YouTube or Netflix, you want

486
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: to establish these uh c d ns, these content delivery

487
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: networks inside as many major I s p s as

488
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: you possibly can to get uh that information to customers

489
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: much more quickly. Uh So, let's compare the old way

490
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: of doing things with a new way. So back in

491
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: the early days of the Internet, your web company servers

492
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: would be connected to I s P A, and your

493
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: customers would access your service by connecting to your web

494
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: server over the Internet. Any of your customers who are

495
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: also I s P A customers would have a pretty

496
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: direct connection because you're all on the same network. But

497
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: if I were your customer and I used I s

498
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: P B, my request would have to pass through a

499
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: piered connection between my I s P and your I

500
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: s P before it reached your web server, and any

501
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: data you said back to me would likewise have to

502
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: go through that piered connection, And if my I s

503
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: P and your I s P got to a spat,

504
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: that could become a problem. But c d n s

505
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: allow entities to build web servers within different I s

506
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: p s, so you get that direct connection and you

507
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: can bypass this need for those peered connections, companies like Google, Netflix,

508
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: and Facebook, I'll have private c d n s to

509
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: help them get this stated to you quickly. There are

510
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: also other c d n s that are run by

511
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: other companies that essentially rent out space two tenants. So

512
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: let's say that you have a big c d N

513
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: within Comcasts network and you say, hey, if you want

514
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: your service to get to Comcast customers faster, you can

515
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: rent out space on our machines which are part of

516
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: this content delivery network within Comcasts network, and that will

517
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: get to the Comcast customers smoothly. You just had to

518
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: pay us and we'll host your stuff. So why does

519
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: this matter? Because the old argument about net neutrality doesn't

520
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: quite work in a world where thirty companies provide half

521
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: of all the Internet's traffic. Think about that. Just a

522
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: little more than two dozen companies comprise half of the

523
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: Internet's traffic, with Netflix leading the charge. Most of those

524
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: companies operate c d N or they partner with one

525
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: of those companies I just talked about that have their

526
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: own c d ns, and you don't have to worry

527
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: about I S p B throttling stuff coming from S

528
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: P A. Because both B and A have all the

529
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: information within their own respective networks. The fast lane argument

530
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: is less of a problem than it used to be

531
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: because we already have this established hierarchy of major companies

532
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: that in itself is its own problem because a lot

533
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: of people point out by having these enormous established companies

534
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: that are able to take advantage of this, it discourages

535
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: competition from smaller companies that don't have those same advantages.

536
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: So a different problem is on the rise, and this

537
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: one is more related to uh, well, it's kind of

538
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: related to the fast lane issue, but with some twists.

539
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: The big I s p s that have swallowed up

540
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: most of the smaller ones have a real tight grip

541
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: on access to the Internet. They would very much like

542
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: to build their own c d n s. So Comcast

543
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: has talked about this, making their own content delivery networks

544
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: within their their networks, and then they would charge companies

545
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: to use those c d n s. So, in other words,

546
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: they're doing kind of what I was talking about with

547
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: those other companies that would say, hey, we will rent

548
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: out space to you, except this would be the actual

549
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: Internet service provider allowing that, So kind of having your

550
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: cake and eating it too. If you were to launch

551
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: an internet startup company and you felt like you needed

552
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: to have that super fast access to Comcast customers, uh

553
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: you like, maybe you're trying to deliver that ultra high

554
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: definition videos experience. You might need to be in a

555
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: c d N to have reliable access to an I

556
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: S B S customers. But you're not big enough to

557
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: build your own one, so you can't be like Google

558
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: or Facebook or Netflix. You aren't haven't been around long enough,

559
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: you can't establish that, so you have to cut a

560
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: deal with someone who already has a c d N

561
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: and you have to rent space there. Essentially, the result

562
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: is that internet service providers could be getting paid twice

563
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: for all the data going across their networks. They get

564
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: one fee from their subscribers, their actual regular customers who

565
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: are consuming data, and another fee from the companies that

566
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: are providing data. So you can charge the for the

567
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: same message two times. It's like the old days with telegrams.

568
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: In fact, this story eventually goes all the way back

569
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: to the telegram days. If you listen to the Common

570
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: Carrier episode, you learn more about it, and it really

571
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: it goes back even further than that. It goes to

572
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,479
Speaker 1: the railroad days, but telegram days. You know, there were

573
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: arguments about telegram companies charging once to send a message

574
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: at once for the receiving of the message, so each

575
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: message was getting billed twice. People said, that's not very fair. Well,

576
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: the same thing is kind of showing up here with

577
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: this concept of an I s P operating its own

578
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: content delivery network. So how can we avoid such a future. Well,

579
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: one thing that would be nice is more competition in

580
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: the internet service provider space. Competition would push Internet service

581
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: providers to stay nim bowl and they wouldn't be able

582
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: to throw their weight around so much because if they did,

583
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: customers could say, well, I don't want to work with

584
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: this company anymore. I'm gonna go and switch to their competitor,

585
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: who and their competitors not engaged in this kind of behavior.

586
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: So that that threat of competition, that threat of losing

587
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: customers to someone else that's not doing the messed up

588
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: stuff you're doing, would help a lot. But we don't

589
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of competition, particularly here in the

590
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 1: United States. So short of breaking up companies or placing

591
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: hefty regulations on how Internet service providers operate, this is

592
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: a long shot. Now, as I record this podcast, there

593
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: are hearings in the United States Congress that could overturn

594
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: large portions of the two thousand fifteen Open Internet Order.

595
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: There's also discussions within the f c C itself that

596
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: would overturn this decision, this twenty decision. So the one

597
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: within the f c C is titled Restoring in Internet Freedom, which, um,

598
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: you know, I I like, there was a tweet I saw.

599
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: I wish I could remember the person who said it,

600
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: but the tweet said essentially, anytime you see a large

601
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: corporation using the word freedom within some legislation, or any

602
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: entity within politics using the word freedom within its legislation,

603
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: it usually means freedom for big companies, not for actual citizens,

604
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 1: which is a little cynical and a lot true. Bottom line,

605
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: Restoring Internet Freedom Act is some loaded language, but then

606
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: so is open Internet. So what's actually going on. Well,

607
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: back in the f c C reclassified broadband Internet Access

608
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: service or bias. That's not me being biased, that's just

609
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: what the acronym says, broadband Internet access service. They reclassified

610
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: them as telecommunications services, which meant that companies in that

611
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: field would be governed by the rules of Titled two

612
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: of the Communications Act of nineteen four. Now, you remember

613
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: before the FCC tried to uh to enforce regulations under

614
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: Title one of the Communications Act, but that didn't really

615
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: give the FCC the authority they needed to do that,

616
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: and that's why those decisions got overturned in federal courts.

617
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: So FCC said, well, that's fine, we'll just well, we

618
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: have to reclassify these companies, these broadband Internet access services

619
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: as telecommunications companies. That will put them under Title two,

620
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: which we have the authority to oversee that has been

621
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: established by law. And this was something that people have

622
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: been bandying about for a few years, but the FCC

623
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: hadn't really taken a move on it because it was

624
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: seen as being a little extreme. However, the Obama administration

625
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: was putting in a lot of pressure on the FCC,

626
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: so eventually they did do this. Now, these rules establish

627
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: the role of common carriers, and again that concept dates

628
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: back to the railroad days. Essentially, the rules said you

629
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: could not establish different prices for different people, So you

630
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 1: couldn't charge one group of people five dollars a ticket

631
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: just because of who they were, and then a different

632
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: group of people you would charge ten dollars a ticket

633
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: or fifteen dollars a ticket just because of who they were.

634
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: Nor were you allowed to discriminate against people and refuse

635
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: them service if they were following the rules and they

636
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: had the money for a ticket. So if I show

637
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: up to your train and I got five dollars in

638
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: hand and I'm not outwardly breaking any rules, you would

639
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: not be allowed to say, oh, no, I'm sorry, you

640
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: can't ride this train. And the reason for that was

641
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: because the railroads have been uh determined to be common carriers.

642
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: They were too important for the good of the United

643
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: States to operate as completely private entities. The same thing

644
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: is true for telecommunications, because you had all these different

645
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: communications lines that were stretching from state to state, and

646
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: you had state governments that were kind of getting into

647
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: argument with one another, and the federal government stepped in

648
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: and said, all right, here's the deal. You can't do

649
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: this because it's too important to the health of the country.

650
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: So this was kind of another step on that on

651
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: that pathway to classify Internet as that same sort of

652
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: um experience or service. Basically, you have to play nice

653
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: now putting bias operators under title to gave the FCC

654
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: authority to enforce rules. They could actually enforce the stuff

655
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: that they were creating. They could create rules and they

656
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: can enforce them because Title to gives them that authority

657
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: as long as it's classified under titled too. Uh So

658
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: that will allow them to get around those issues they

659
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: had had earlier in net neutrality cases where the courts

660
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: kept on saying, hey, you like totally don't have the

661
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: authority to do that thing. By reclassifying bias companies as

662
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: telecommunications companies, the FCC gained that authority over them. Now.

663
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: The first provision in the Open Internet or OR established

664
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: that bias operators would not be allowed to block access

665
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: to legal content, apps, services, or non harmful devices subject

666
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: to reasonable network management. So an I s P like

667
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: a T and T couldn't deny customers the ability to

668
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: connect to a specific brand of laptop on their networks

669
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: or block any specific content from a competitor because of

670
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: this specific rule. The second provision stated that bias companies

671
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: couldn't throttle any content purposefully barring any network management issues. So,

672
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: in other words, a T T couldn't say, all right, yeah,

673
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: you can access that service that's on Comcasts network, but

674
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: we're just gonna put the brakes on it. So that's

675
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: really unpleasant and there's no incentive to use that service.

676
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: That was against the rules according to the second provision,

677
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: so it wouldn't allow a company to prioritize its own

678
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: services over that of others. The idea being that any

679
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: consumer would have equal opportunity to use whichever service he

680
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: or she preferred across the entirety of the Internet. It

681
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: might be the same as their I s p s,

682
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: or it might be someone else. The third provisions stated

683
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: that bias operators couldn't operate with paid prioritization. So, in

684
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: other words, you're not supposed to have like a super

685
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: secret v I P line that people could pay to

686
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: use and get the fast track to consumers. And you

687
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: may have heard some some talk about this particular one

688
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: ideas like, you know, I run a ultra high definition

689
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: streaming service, so I want to pay a little extra

690
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: money to the I s p s to make sure

691
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: that my traffic is going to consumers um in a

692
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: in a fast lane. This is the big fast lane discussion. Now,

693
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: this rule ends up being sidestepped by the content delivery

694
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: network issue I talked about earlier. If you build content

695
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: delivery networks within I s p s, then you kind

696
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: of end up not having to worry about this as much.

697
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: But then only the the entities that have huge amounts

698
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: of money can afford to do that in the first place.

699
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: And unlike the other two rules, there's no exception here

700
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: for reasonable network management. So for the other two provisions,

701
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: if you are needing to manage your network because of

702
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: UH an imbalance in traffic, you are allowed to break

703
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: those first two provisions, providing you can actually say I

704
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: had to do it because otherwise our our network traffic

705
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: would have been so great as to cause an overall

706
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: collapse and that's a bad thing. The third provision, you

707
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: couldn't even do that. There was no rule for that.

708
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 1: So on top of those provisions, the rules stated that

709
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: biased companies couldn't quote unreasonably interfere with or unreasonably disadvantage

710
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: customers abilities to select, access, and use lawful content services

711
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: and devices. They also couldn't unreasonably interfere with or unreasonably

712
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 1: disadvantage edge providers from making lawful content apps, services, or devices.

713
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: So in other words, UH they couldn't couldn't meddle with

714
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: either the content or the devices that were moving across

715
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: their individual networks. Now today is a very different world

716
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: than the one in when the FCC passed those rules,

717
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,439
Speaker 1: and the current administration in the United States is looking

718
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: to reverse those twenty fifteen decisions. That includes reclassifying biased

719
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: companies again, this time removing them from the classification of

720
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: telecommunications companies and thus pulling them out from under titled two.

721
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: This would put the Federal Federal Trade Commission, or f TC,

722
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: in charge of overseeing claims of privacy violations or anti

723
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: competitive practices among bias operators, so the FCC would no

724
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: longer be in charge. Instead it would be the f

725
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: t C. The critics of this move say that the

726
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: FTC has very little power, is a small organization um

727
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: and it isn't much of a check against bias operators.

728
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't really stand as a threat at all or

729
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: a measure to keep these companies behaving properly. For one thing,

730
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: the FTC doesn't have the authority to set regulations, so

731
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: they can't They can't make any rules. All they can

732
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: do is go after companies if it becomes clear that

733
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: those companies are not following their own terms of service.

734
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: With customers. So if you if your I s P

735
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: is A T and T and UH, you are upset

736
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: with how things are going. If the way A T

737
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: and T is performing is not in direct violation of

738
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 1: its terms of service, the FTC can't really do anything

739
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: about on it. Because the FTC can't set up the rules.

740
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: It gives a lot of power to the corporations. That's

741
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: the complaint a lot of critics are having right now

742
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: that they're saying this is a bad move because it's

743
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: giving the people or the entities I should say that

744
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: we're trying to make sure play by the rules, it's

745
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: giving them the ability to make up the rules. So

746
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: there's no sense in the whole making sure they play

747
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 1: by the rules. If you give the person the ability

748
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: to write all the rules, of course they're playing by

749
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: them because they're the ones defining the rules as they

750
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: go along. It could be like an enormous game of

751
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: calvin Ball. It's for the three Calvinant Hobbs fans that

752
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,439
Speaker 1: are out there. All right, I got more to cover

753
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: in the end of this episode, but before I get

754
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: into that, let's take another quick break to thank our sponsor.

755
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: According to the new chairman, of the f c C

756
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: A Jeep Pie. The two thousand fifteen order quote put

757
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: at risk online investment and innovation, threatening the very open

758
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 1: internet it purported to preserve. Investment in broadband networks declined.

759
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: Internet service providers have pulled back on plans to deploy

760
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 1: new and upgraded infrastructure and services to consumers. End quote.

761
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 1: So Pie's argument is that because these regulations were in place,

762
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: I s p s were disinclined. They had no incentive

763
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: to invest in their own infrastructure. I mean, why would

764
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: they they were being regulated. Now, I have to add

765
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 1: that I failed to find a lot of research that

766
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: actually substantiates this claim. For one thing, there's just a

767
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: lack of research all around. It's it's not that I'm

768
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: finding conflicting reports, rather than there's just not a lot

769
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: of definitive research to either support or refute it. According

770
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 1: to I T Were World, in two thousand fifteen, broadband

771
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: networks invested seventies six billion dollars in upgrading networks. Now,

772
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: this was a slight decrease from two numbers, but it

773
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: wasn't a dramatic decline. In fact, was the highest total

774
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: spit on infrastructure over the records of the Internet was

775
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: the second highest, so it's not like numbers dropped precipitously.

776
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: They dipped. So it's unclear if there really is a

777
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: risk to investment and innovation. There might be, but we

778
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 1: don't have enough information there. There's not enough data to

779
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: show an actual trend yet. So I'm not saying the

780
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: FCC chairman's conclusion is necessarily wrong. It could be right.

781
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's not supported by enough evidence to

782
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: be a firm conclusion. It may well be that the

783
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: Open Internet Order is doing exactly what PIE says it

784
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: is doing, but it doesn't seem like we actually have

785
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: the information to draw that conclusion yet. So what we

786
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: really need is more research to see are these companies

787
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: pulling back from investing in their infrastructure. Have they been

788
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: given an incentive to not invest back in the infrastructure?

789
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: Is that actually harming consumers? We don't know. There's not

790
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: been enough data yet. The proposal that PIE has drafted

791
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: also says that the rules were established quote despite virtually

792
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: no quantifiable evidence of consumer harm end quote. So here's

793
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 1: PIE saying, look, you're these were rules that were looking

794
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: for a problem that didn't exist. So as a solution

795
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: searching for a problem, and since there was no evidence

796
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,479
Speaker 1: of any consumers actually being harmed, then the rules aren't

797
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: really protecting anybody, And that's that's an interesting argument to say, like,

798
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: if there's nothing wrong happening, then why do we have

799
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: to make regulation shans? Granted, if the regulations just exist

800
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: but aren't forcing any ongoing expense from the government, you

801
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: might argue, well, where is the problem. If we've established

802
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: the rules, if someone violates the rules, then we have

803
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: we have something to go to. But you could also

804
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: leave the argument of well, if no one's violating the rules, ever,

805
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: why do we have the rules there? Um, I would

806
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 1: counter that the decreased competition in the internet service provider

807
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: market in the United States is pretty bad. This goes

808
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: all the way down to the consumer facing level. So

809
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: we're talking like the backbone companies all the way down

810
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: to the ones that we as customers individuals in the

811
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 1: United States would use for our internet service provider. So

812
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: for example, where I live, I have one choice if

813
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: I want to have broadband speeds UH. The next fastest

814
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: choice I would have at my my UH option is

815
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: below broadbands beat if we define it at the current

816
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: standard in the United States as twenty five megabits per second.

817
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: That's how the FCC defined it in So, if I

818
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 1: look at my choice of Internet service providers, I only

819
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: have one option if I want to hit broadband speeds.

820
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: Everything else is sub broadband speed. That's it. That means

821
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: one company has a monopoly on broadband speeds in my neighborhood,

822
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: and that puts customers in my neighborhood and disadvantage. We

823
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: have no alternative. If our i SP chooses to engage

824
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: and behavior we find unacceptable, we don't have another option

825
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: to go to that can provide us at Internet access

826
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: at that same speed. We might choose to go with

827
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: a slower speed, and which almost feels like we're punishing

828
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: ourselves UH in order to not work with that i

829
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: s P. But the ideal situation would to have would

830
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: be to have a lot of competing Internet service providers

831
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 1: with comparable capability of delivering fast Internet service to multiple customers.

832
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 1: This would end up UH giving companies the incentive to innovate,

833
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: to find ways to set themselves apart from their competitors

834
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,439
Speaker 1: to attract more customers. That way, customers are the ones

835
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: who benefit if there are no competitors, there's no incentive

836
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: for a company to do that, and customers as a

837
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: result often suffer because there's nowhere else to go. You've

838
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: got one choice to go to. It's kind of like

839
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: the old UH Soviet Union, where if you wanted a

840
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: specific product, you had to go to one place and

841
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: that was the one product you could get and there

842
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: were no other alternatives. It's kind of like that UH

843
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: in that case. Of course, in the SO Union it

844
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: was all state controlled, not corporate controlled, but otherwise it's

845
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:54,320
Speaker 1: very similar. Net neutrality and related policies are supposed to

846
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 1: protect against this kind of behavior, particularly in a world

847
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: where competition is scarce. Now, if we lived in a

848
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 1: world where we did have that fierce competition among I

849
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: s p s and markets across the world, it might

850
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: not even be an issue. That neutrality might not ever

851
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: be talked about, because the market would end up demanding

852
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: that the companies that that benefit consumers the most would

853
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: be the most successful. That gives again those incentives to

854
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 1: the other companies to follow suit. No one would be

855
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: doing stupid stuff that that limited what their customers could do,

856
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: because they would lose those customers. But that's not the

857
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: world we live in. I can't just switch from one

858
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: to the other, and most people can't either because they

859
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: don't have those options. There are too few I s

860
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: p s, And we've seen numerous stories of how companies

861
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: have tried to consolidate power even more through various mergers

862
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: and acquisitions. Comcast was trying to buy Time Mourner for

863
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: a while. That would have consolidated two massive internet service providers,

864
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: and that would have been even less competition in the marketplace. Now,

865
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: the companies were saying this is gonna be great for consumers,

866
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: but honestly, when you don't have a lot of competition,

867
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: it's not that great for consumers because why why should

868
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: there be. Your consumers aren't gonna go anywhere. They have

869
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: no other place to go, So do what works best

870
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,959
Speaker 1: to maximize your profits and not worry so much about

871
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: the consumer response. That's that's the real issue there. It's

872
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: pretty ugly. So what do I think is going to

873
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: actually happen from all of this with the FCC moving

874
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: in this direction. Well, I'm recording this in early May.

875
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: It's gonna be mid May when the FCC starts to

876
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:45,919
Speaker 1: move on any sort of decisions, and uh, Meanwhile, we've

877
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: got the case being pushed towards the Supreme Court to

878
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: be heard. So we've got two different avenues of attack

879
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: against net neutrality. First, I think the Supreme Court will

880
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: decline to hear the case brought against c f c

881
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: C and it's classification of I s P S under

882
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: Title two. I think that case is not going to

883
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 1: make it all the way to the Supreme Court, and

884
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: I think the reason for that is the Court's going

885
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: to decline to hear the case because the f c

886
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: C is already considering reclassifying uh I s p S

887
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: again and rolling those rules back. So I don't think

888
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court will hear the case because they're gonna

889
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: see that this argument is essentially moot and there's no

890
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: reason to to look at the case if the FCC

891
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 1: is going to change the rules back anyway. So I

892
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: suspect we will see regulations rolled back from I s

893
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: P S. Deregulating is a frequent message from conservative governments.

894
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm not optimistic about that helping out the average consumer

895
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: that I have no trouble believing it will be a

896
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: huge help to the enormous businesses that are I s

897
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 1: P S now, if this happens, it will likely take

898
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: some time, as just the process for making these rules

899
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: is borious and typically involves inviting input from the general public,

900
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: and the last time that happened, UH, the general public

901
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: overwhelmed the FCCS systems with input largely in favor of

902
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: net neutrality, so we'll likely see a similar response, led

903
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 1: by various entities on the Internet like the Electronic Frontier

904
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: Foundation pushing for people to speak out in favor of

905
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,359
Speaker 1: net neutrality. I don't think it's going to ultimately matter

906
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: in the long run. I think we're gonna see those

907
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 1: regulations rolled back, at least to some extent, maybe not

908
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: as far back as what people are proposing right now,

909
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 1: but I don't think that I s p s will

910
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: be under titled to classification for much longer. Maybe a year,

911
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: that's my guess. This could lead to another discussion about

912
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: fast lanes ultimately down the line, but really, as I

913
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 1: mentioned before, it really comes down to those content distribution networks.

914
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,439
Speaker 1: The real fear is that big companies like Netflix, which

915
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: have billions of dollars, will be able to flourish, while

916
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 1: small competing companies that could potentially be of great interest

917
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: to consumers can't get on that same page because they

918
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: can't afford to essentially pay what amounts to a toll

919
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 1: to internet access providers. Netflix can afford that, but a

920
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: startup company that might be a huge hit if it

921
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: had a chance, might not be able to ever get

922
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: off the ground because it can't afford to play ball

923
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: the way the big companies can. Now, the big companies

924
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: don't want to play ball. They they're also big companies.

925
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: They don't they don't want to spend money they don't

926
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: have to spend. So I don't wanna come out here

927
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: saying like Netflix and Google and Amazon and Facebook, they're

928
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: all the good guys and the I s p s

929
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: are the bad guys. Uh. Really, these are all entities

930
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: that are trying to minimize expenses and maximize profits as

931
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: best they can, and ultimately, we're the consumers were the

932
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: ones who get squeezed by this from both sides. So

933
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: don't take me the wrong way. I'm not trying to

934
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: say that Netflix and Google and all those guys are

935
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 1: are angels and the I s p s are devils.

936
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: It's more like these are businesses. They have a purpose,

937
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: and that purpose is to make money. Is not a

938
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: moral judgment. It is just that's the purpose of a

939
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: corporation is to make money, and we as consumers are

940
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 1: the ones affected by this. If we see a definitive

941
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: ruling between the time I record this episode and the

942
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 1: time it publishes, I'll be sure to jump back in

943
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: the studio and record an update to this episode. And

944
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: this is the part where it will go. It will

945
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: go in this section or right after it. So if

946
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 1: you don't hear an update after this paragraph, it's because

947
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: nothing definitive has happened yet, or I forgot one of

948
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 1: the two. One of the two things happen. So that's

949
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: it for this episode of Tech Stuff. Remember you can

950
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 1: get in touch with me through email. Let me know

951
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: of any suggestions you have for guests on the show

952
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: for topics I might want to cover. For anything that

953
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 1: you think deserves an update, like net neutrality. If there's

954
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: another topic I've covered in the past that you field

955
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: needs to have a little refresher, let me know. The

956
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,240
Speaker 1: address for our show is tech Stuff at how stuff

957
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: Works dot com, or you can say hi through Twitter

958
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: or Facebook. The handle for the show at both of

959
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: those is tech Stuff h s W. Remember you can

960
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: tune in to watch me stream shows live on twitch

961
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: dot tv slash tech Stuff. Visit the site to see

962
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: my schedule, and I'll talk to you guys again really soon.

963
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, is

964
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com