WEBVTT - Choosing Hope When Things Feel Hopeless: with Actress Thando Dlomo 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:08.119 Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever, 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.360 pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe, and each week my guests 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:15.640 and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty. 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.720 This is pretty smart. Oprah Winfrey once said true wealth 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:26.760 isn't about having money, It's about having options. That's exactly 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.120 what she wanted to give her students at the Leadership 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.440 Academy she founded in South Africa in two thousand and seven. 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:37.279 She wanted to give her students, all young South African 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:41.839 girls options. Oprah looked to enroll girls who had what 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:49.720 she called a spark. Well enter Tondo Dlomo. Ten years 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.519 after being a part of the very first graduating class 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:57.760 from Oprah's Leadership Academy, tondo spark is now more like 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:00.840 a fire from her humble beginnings in South Africa. 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.839 When I say poor, I mean my very first internship. 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.000 When I came to the US, I was yeah freshman, 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:11.280 first internship. 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:12.240 That very first. 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.960 Summer, I was making more money than my grandmother had 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:19.479 ever made, and I was making three hundred dollars a month. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:24.200 Tondo graduated from college, grad school and is now an 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:29.720 accomplished speaker journalists for Entertainment Tonight and actress. She just 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.560 came back from filming a part in Viola Davis's new film, 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.920 something she says she thought about for years as a 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:37.520 little girl. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:43.319 I'll sit there playing by myself, imagining all sorts of 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:53.000 things like cameras, spaces like this, like being interviewed, or 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:59.440 like I've dreamt thought, I've dreamt of those moments, and 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:05.200 I get emotional about it because truly, in those moments, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.400 you don't think it's a real thing. It's a pastime. 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.600 It's the thing that gets you by somehow. 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.640 Tondo says she always chooses hope. She grew up in 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:21.359 poverty that many can't even contemplate, circumstances that would render 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:22.800 complete hopelessness. 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:28.440 I remember the day that I lost my mom. She 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.480 was in South Africa visiting the academy, and when she 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:37.000 found out, her and Monte Gail Gail came. They came 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.800 to my room and they sat with me and silence. 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.640 I entered between crying to silence, to crime, to silence. 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:49.080 And still that hope. Whenever I can't stop thinking about 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.840 a word, I look up the etymology of it. So 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:56.080 I googled hope. The root is hope and trust in 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.720 God's word or hope ah, which means confidence in the future. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.560 That's exactly what I felt from Tondo the entire time 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.720 we were together. It was more than a feeling. I 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:12.600 could tell that for Tondo, it was a knowing, a 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:20.400 deep knowing that tomorrow will be better. So, Tondo, you 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:24.120 were one of seventy one girls is that correct? Yes, 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.720 seventy one girls accepted into the inaugural class of Oprah 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:31.000 Winfrey's Leadership Academy for Girls. That is true. 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:31.880 You got the numbers. 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:34.360 You know, there's different numbers online. 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.040 I hoping I chose the right one. 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:37.440 That's the number. That's the number. 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:38.440 That's the number. Yeah. 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:39.080 Okay. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.240 Before we get into that, and of course, so much 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:43.880 more of your life journey, I want you to take 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.560 me back to Johannesburg. Grew up in South Africa. Yes, 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:52.080 what was your upbringing? Like, oh, it's time to have had. 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:58.440 My upbringing was beautifully complex. So I was raised by 0:03:58.440 --> 0:03:59.000 my grandmother. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:00.360 I had my mom. 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.640 Dad were a high school sweethearts, met a very young age, 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.680 had me at a very young age. And so as 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:09.720 grandmas do, they take you in and they're like, I 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.640 got this, I got this. So I was raised by her. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.160 My grandmother was a maid, what we call a domestic 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:18.200 worker in South Africa. What's her name, Julia, Yes, the 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:20.920 most precious. I love her with all my heart. So 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.520 she was a maid and a domestic worker in a 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.760 town called Bononi. If you know where Charlie Theron is from, 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:32.480 that's the same little town. Yes, But essentially we lived 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.559 in the backyard of her employer's house in a small 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:36.200 little room. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.000 I mean, probably no bigger than the space right here. 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:43.400 Bed over here, little chair over there, tying, little two 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.359 plate stove over here, little toilet over here. 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.640 Very humble, but it was all I. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.680 Knew, and so it was home for me. And I 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.320 went to a school called Reinefield Primary that was in 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:58.240 the neighborhood. I was probably one of a handful of 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.159 black kids at that school, and because it was in 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.839 her inner white neighborhood, my grandmother and I just happened 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.880 to live there because she worked there. And yeah, I 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:13.920 had great, complex and humbling experiences, very very poor, very 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.040 very poor, And I'm so glad I wasn't hyper aware 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.920 of that then, because I turned along with it. My 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.360 grandmother she can't read nor can she write, so between 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:28.200 poor with a very like unstable sense of like educational home. 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.760 I had to teach myself a lot of things. A 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:34.599 lot of my math English Africaans, which is that language 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.560 we learned in school, was self taught. I'm also an 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.680 only child, so I played a lot by myself, a 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:42.719 lot by myself. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:43.800 I probably thought a lot. 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.760 I thought so much, probably too much. I mean, I 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.720 still have the habit, the bad habit too, this day 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.159 of being like by myself and thinking myself into a 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:51.920 little corner. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.000 But when you say poor, can you? Because I think 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:59.320 sometimes poor in America, we think something different than poor 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.719 in South Africa, very different. 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:06.440 When I say poor, I mean my very first internship 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.560 when I came to the US, I was, yeah, freshman, 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.320 first internship, that very first summer, I was making more 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.240 money than my grandmother had ever made. And I was 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:22.120 making three hundred dollars a month, a month, yes, and 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.359 that was like me bawling, like my grandmother has never 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.159 not this amount of money in a month. To the 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.719 point where I started, there'd be nights where we go 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:35.240 without food, and I started offering to help clean the 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.839 swimming pool for the you know, the people's house where 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.960 we lived. So I could earn twenty rand for every 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.279 time I cleaned it. Twenty rand is probably about a 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.279 dollar a dollar fifty maybe, And I'll clean the swimming 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.640 pools because it would mean extra money for you know, 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.120 my grand and I to like go and get food 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.200 constantly in debt. The school was like four hundred rand 0:06:56.240 --> 0:07:00.480 a month, which is thirty dollars, but constantly in debt, 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.640 couldn't afford to pay even that. 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.360 So yes, by poor, I mean really really. 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:13.120 Really really poor, blissfully poor? Was it? Yeah, blissfully naively 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.960 poor because I had no idea exactly how poor I was. 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:19.920 I had no idea. I mean, to this day, I 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.720 share some stories with my friends who aren't South African 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.520 or didn't have the same life and upbringing that I did. 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.920 And there are moments where they're like, what what you did. 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.360 That you lived through that? And I'm like, yeah, you know, 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.880 And I normalized a lot of my upbringing, a lot 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.440 of the struggle and a lot of the living without 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.160 because it was all I knew, right, it was all 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:46.680 I knew. And so I remember, actually after I've got 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.520 into the Oprah and for Leadership Academy, MS Winfrey, who 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.400 I endariingly call my mom now. She came to visit 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.480 where my grandmother and I lived in that little room, 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.960 and I remember being so proud to show her. You 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.200 got to come see this is where I live, like 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.480 come through, and the look on her face she was stunned. 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:13.000 Like you you remember it. I remember it vividly because 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.280 I was thinking to myself, this is welcome to my home. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.240 And she was like, this is tiny. 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.960 This is the size of this is like a boat. 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.680 I don't even know, like this is tiny, but I 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.520 had no idea at the time. 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.600 It's interesting that you use the word bliss though it 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:31.280 means there was joy in your house. 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:36.559 I don't know how, but by the grace of God 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.319 and everything that is high and. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:38.920 That we serve. 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.480 I always had a great sense of joy about me. 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:47.720 You had it when you walked in today. No, really, really, yeah. 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.320 This is why I know for a fact that there 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.240 is a greater thing, a bigger thing at play, a 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:58.480 thing that calls us to this life for greater purpose. 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:03.000 Because I have no explanation for more than half of 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.040 the things I felt or experienced. I always tell my 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:10.240 friends perseverance is glamorized, but it is hard and in 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.760 the moment when you're going through it. Nothing about it 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:17.240 feels cute, Nothing about it feels like, oh I should 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:22.760 dread this either, You're just chugging along so hard that. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:24.240 It just is what it is. 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.640 And so I don't know, you might as well be 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.120 happy while you do it. Yeah, what do you do? 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:29.440 You know? 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:30.880 So, I don't know. 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:36.000 I have no true explanation for how I handled things, 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:37.800 but I'm grateful for it. 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:42.400 I'm grateful for whatever it is. So you applied to 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:47.400 the Oprah Winfrey Leadership Academy for Girls, Yes, and you 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:51.360 were accepted. I was. I didn't know until I was 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.800 researching that it was an application process. 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:59.040 When I say that year, applications have been sent out 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:03.199 to the country at wide, the entire country. 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:05.200 This was going to be. 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:10.400 One heck of an experience, one heck of a thing. 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.439 Nothing done like it before. I remember when I even 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.400 got the call for it from my principal at school. 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.440 It wasn't even a thing. The buildings weren't even complete yet. 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:25.600 You know why did they choose you? Let my principle 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.320 tell it. I was extremely smart. Well, actually, no, I'll 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.800 tell it too. I worked really hard. I was I 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.160 was extremely smart. 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.120 And I know this is a podcast for smart girls. 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.160 Say it's so happy to be here. I feel right aloud. 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:41.800 I have to say it because there are lots of 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:45.480 moments as I'm growing and coming into my womanhood that 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:49.880 I did not give myself a little pounded for. And 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.160 I'm so grateful the goal that I get for that 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.480 little girl and all that she did to serve me 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.600 and to serve the woman that I'm becoming now, because 0:10:57.840 --> 0:10:59.959 when I got that call for my principle, they saw 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:01.200 things in me that I. 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:02.920 Thought were just it just is. 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.320 It's just normal, right, You're supposed to do it like this, 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.720 and you're in an environment where people have like parents 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.839 that do those you know, those commercials that you see 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.679 with the science experiment with the happy family around it, 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.319 and they put it in and the volcano explodes, and 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.680 it's like, hey, I was at school with kids like that, 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.440 except I didn't have the resources. I didn't have the 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.480 money to go and buy what it takes to you know, 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.080 let alone, I'm trying to teach myself the science. Right. 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.400 My grandmother would sign my diary to say, you know, 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:35.880 when your parents signs that you did the homework, and 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.080 my teachers wouldn't believe it's her signature because she would 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.360 sign with like an ex she can't write. And I'd 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.760 be like, I promise you, I promise you. My grandmother 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.319 signed this, and they're like no, And so I taught 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.360 my grandmother how to sign, like how to make a signature. 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.880 So did they see your perseverance? Is that what they 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:56.440 they had to have? 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:58.760 Yeah? Because when I got that call, it was on 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.560 the accounts of you can do it one hundred percent. 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.240 You just don't have the resources. You don't have the resources. 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.800 And I am so grateful that they saw it, because 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:10.840 if it was a self sign up, I would. 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:11.200 Have missed it. 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:13.880 I wouldn't have seen it in myself, you know. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.320 And so yeah, I started that. They called me. 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.640 They were like, Tundle, this would be a great opportunity 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:23.040 for you. I remember thinking, this can't be real, guys, Oprah, 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.559 I watch her. She doesn't talk about this on my 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.080 shell does not have a school. It's notuth Africa. Are 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:28.920 you guys kidding me? 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.560 And I was like, but if it's a free education, 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:33.240 I'll take it. 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.760 My grandmother is constantly in debt, trying to ride the 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.000 school fees, and I remember receiving the pamphlets. 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:40.840 The school hadn't been built yet. 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.440 When I say it had not been built yet, the pamphlets, 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.199 the buildings on the on the pamphlet were like yes, 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:55.160 And I was like, it's it's a little sketchy for me, 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.480 but you know what, like let's try it out. 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:57.920 Why not? 0:12:58.160 --> 0:12:59.160 You know? 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:04.360 I was twelve? Wow, Yeah, I was eleven going on 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.120 twelve when I got the application, and the application process 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.040 like spanned until like I was, yeah, twelve going on 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.480 thirteen to start at the school. And it was an 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:19.520 extensive one. I mean English tests, literacy tests, literacy tests, 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.400 computer tests, math tests, all the tests you can imagine, 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.720 drawing tests. I remember one was draw your dream house. Yes, 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.720 my dream house was tiny. My dreams weren't big enough yet. 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.000 But we're gonna that's a big thing for you. We're 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.319 going to touch on that. Yes, there's a video online 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.640 of when you meet Oprah and you recite a poem 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.160 to her. Yeah, what home are you recited. 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.640 That poem that is following me all through my life? 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:45.839 What is that? So? 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.040 I used to do performing arts in school. I used 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.200 to do theater. I used to be really into it. 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.760 I still am, But that poem I was in this 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:59.640 like regional competition for like top like theater performers in 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.280 like my age group in you know, in the in. 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:03.680 The country and in the city. 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.800 And I had like a competition coming up in a 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:10.679 couple of days after that interview, and so she asked 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:12.800 me about my performing arts and what I like, and 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.839 I told her, Oh, I'm really into theater. 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.080 I'm an actress. And she was like, oh, really, well, 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:19.760 you know, like do it for me. 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.480 I literally, I will never forget the image in my 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.560 mind of sitting there across from her and thinking, am I. 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.280 Should I should I do it? You have to do it. 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.040 I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it, all right. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.920 And I went for it and I committed. 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.240 You did it kills me. I do never want to 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.600 see that tape ever again in my life. She reminds 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.120 me of it constantly every I. 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.480 Mean it lives on YouTube. I will say, oh, but 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:49.760 you're so cute. 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.400 You know what, I will say, I was bright eyed. 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.160 I'm grateful for the energy that I had in that 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:00.160 moment because they're gonna play that in your true Hollywood story. 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.360 You're calling it now, Okay, yeah, it's on tape. 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:06.320 Oh my Lord. 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:08.840 So I read something on your Instagram. You wrote, my 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.320 childhood reminds me of how tough life can truly be. 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.880 But despite the memory of those experiences, I look back 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.200 at pictures and I'm smiling in each one. That's the joy, right. 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.200 I implore us all to handle this adulthood thing with 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.920 the spirit of a carefree child who only wants what 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.120 her heart and mind tell her is possible. So there's 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.360 a voice within you telling you that these things are 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:31.200 possible for you. 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.120 I remember I used to, like I said, I spent 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.280 a lot of time by myself, and I remember I 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:44.040 would vividly imagine I want to be on Broadway one day. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.160 Mind you, I've never left the town, let alone in 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.800 the country. But I used to watch Oprah. 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.440 I used to watch all sorts of like American shows. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.680 My grandmother and I had this small TV that had 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.320 the great you know, you have to hold the thing 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.640 to make sure that it actually plays so we can 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:05.560 see it. But I used to watch all of those 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.040 things and like, imagine myself, I want to go there. 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.360 I want to go to Broadway. I want to be 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.520 an actress. And when I become an actress, this is 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.880 what I'll do and I'll buy a nice house, and 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.760 like I'll take my grandmother. I used to think of 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.920 all these things. And when you have ample time by yourself, 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:30.440 you get into the detail of it. And so in 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.720 the moment, it doesn't feel like a grand discovery. You're 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.000 not even sure if it's gonna happen for real, you know, 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:41.960 but it keeps it keeps the moment alive, It lights 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.200 up the days, It gives you something to look forward to. 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:45.680 I don't know. 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.520 Did you watch Oprah's interview with Viola Davis. Yes, I 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.160 just watched it, and so much of that when she 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.640 talks about being so poor and envisioning this, Yes, it's 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.080 so similar to what you're saying. 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.200 That's exactly it. It's you're you're so poor, You're you're just 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.000 living in your own mind, anything that takes you out 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.120 of the reality of the space you're Inah. And in 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.840 that way, you keep your spirits, you keep your your 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.240 wits about you, you keep your energy about you, and 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.800 you spend so much time alone that you you narrow 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:23.320 in onto into whatever it is that you hope and 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.160 pray for yourself, that you hope and pray for your 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.640 life and in my head, I was taking my grandmother 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:30.120 with me everywhere, go to school. 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:31.919 I'm gonna I want to go to college, take my 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:37.879 grandmother with me. I mean, take grandad Julia out of 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.320 college and Julia going to class, like we're gonna live 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:42.040 in America. 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.439 Like I in my head, her and I were going 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:50.880 to tag along everywhere together. Anything was your person, my person, 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.560 my literal person, my literal person. Her and my mom 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:56.879 my mom and I like because the age gap was 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.399 so like small, her and I were like friends. 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:01.240 It was like sisters. 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.879 We would i mean cut up when we were together. 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.880 And when she would come around to visit, I would 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.760 tell her I'm gonna I'm gonna go on day and 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.359 I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna go to Broadway and like, 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:16.560 and I'd force her to watch like some of these 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.159 shows with me, and I'd be like you see this, 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.159 see this, Like they'd repeat like over. 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:21.600 And over again. 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.640 You'd watch the same show over and over again, because 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:25.680 it's not cable TV. It's just like what the government 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.680 gives you. And I would watch and be like, watat 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.040 watch this pot that's where we're gonna go. 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:31.959 That's where we're gonna go. 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:37.000 Mind you, I couldn't tell you which direction that place is, but. 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:38.159 You knew in your mind. 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:39.720 In my mind it works out. 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:44.480 In my mind, it worked out. Yeah. So I really 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.440 want to talk about your mom, but I want to 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.679 ask you two quick questions about your education. First. Yes, 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:56.520 so this school, I remember watching the Oprah Show and 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.640 hearing about her building it, and it was a big 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:04.080 deal in America. To be in South Africa must have 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:05.680 been a huge deal. 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.000 When I say, everyone in the country was trying to 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:14.679 get their children into that school, right, because the reality 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.840 for a lot of people in South Africa, in a 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.560 lot of countries on the African continent, is the disparity 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.919 in education for the girl child especially, And you're so 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.280 poor as a parent, the least you want for your 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.000 kid is an education to take. 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.600 Them out of that circumstance. And young girls want to 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:34.199 go to school. 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:40.080 They want to with all their hearts. It's everything that 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.640 is set up against you that makes it so hard. 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.000 But people are fighting for the right to be in 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.520 a classroom and make something of themselves. 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.399 I write about this sometimes, but the GDP of a 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.840 country goes down ten to thirty percent when women are 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:00.800 not educated and similarly goes up to at thirty percent 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:02.000 when women are educated. 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:06.320 The reality is, like there's a saying in South Africa. 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:08.880 When you educate a woman, you educate the world. When 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.719 you feed a woman, you feed the nation. It's a 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:17.240 real thing. Women know how to carry so much on 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.040 our backs. I mean, so much of the light of 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:25.199 that country is carried by women, carried by young girls 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:29.080 who are hopeful and want something for themselves, for their families, 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.080 for the country at large. This generation of women coming 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:32.679 up in South. 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:36.840 Africa right now, don't mess with them. They are serious 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:38.760 about what they want they are. This is not your 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:39.480 ordinary girl. 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:43.000 This is not the parent that was abused during apartheid. 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.720 This is not the grandmother who has lost all confidence. 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.600 These are women who are out for blood. They want 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:52.840 what is good and they know what it is. And 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.240 a lot of that is rooted in education. And I 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.640 wanted it with all my heart. I remember there would 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:00.760 be times where I'd go to my grandmother. I can't 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.000 figure out the sum I can't get what this means, 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.280 and I want to so badly. That is the frustration. 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.159 Not that we're poor, not that there might not be 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.159 a male tonight, not that there I want to be 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:15.800 in the top ten at school. I want to be 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:17.480 the girl who gets the blazer. 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:18.560 You know, in South Africa you. 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:20.600 Get the blazer with the thing with the mark. So 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:24.480 you know that says this is an academic. Education has 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.280 literally been the thing that has carried me from place 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.560