1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: This is quite a wall here. 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 2: Oh, these are some great photos. 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 3: That's Jimmy Carter enough me. Uh huh, yes, me and 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 3: Lorena Lynn. How did this come about? She was given 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 3: a concert in Burman Allen. 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 4: Uh huh. 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 3: Carry me backstage to leader. 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: Look at this. 9 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 5: Suit that you have on. 10 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: Maybe you've never heard of Bill Baxley, but here in 11 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: Alabama he's a big deal. 12 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 3: That Johnny Cash. 13 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 6: Oh wow. 14 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: Baxley is eighty two, slightly balding, with silver hair and eyebrows. 15 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: In the pictures he's showing me on the wall of 16 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 2: his office, I see him looking younger. His hair is dark, 17 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: and he's standing with famous musicians and politicians. 18 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 3: That's my daddy swearing me in for my first term. 19 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 7: Wow. 20 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: Baxley was elected as Alabama's Attorney General when he was 21 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: just twenty eight years old. He later served as lieutenant governor, 22 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: and he's still practicing law today. During his career, Baxley 23 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 2: prosecuted hundreds of cases and sent three people to Alabama's 24 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 2: death row. 25 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 3: There are some crimes that are so wrong and so 26 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 3: horrible that they only deserve one punishment. 27 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: He's a lifelong defender of the death penalty, a true believer, 28 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 2: like when the US Supreme Court outlawed the death penalty 29 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: in the nineteen seventies, Baxley worked hard to bring executions 30 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: back to Alabama. He's that kind of true believer. So 31 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: it's not surprising that Baxley was skeptical when his son, 32 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: who's also an attorney, asked his dad to look over 33 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: a case because he believed an innocent man was on 34 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: death row. 35 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: Over the course of my long career, I've had dozens 36 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 3: and dozens answances were these I'll call them do gooders, 37 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 3: but they're good people. They take up there's causes of 38 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 3: people that have been sentenced to death, and they get 39 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 3: interested in trying to help them, and they all think 40 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 3: they're always innocent. 41 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: Baxley didn't even glance at the case file until weeks later. 42 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: On an icy winter morning, it was too slippery to 43 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: walk down the driveway and grab the newspaper, so he 44 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: picked up the file that his son sent him and 45 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 2: began reading about a black man named to Forrest Johnson, 46 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 2: who was sentenced to death for killing a shriff's deputy. 47 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 3: I mean, mid morning, I couldn't believe what I was reading. 48 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 3: I wouldn't have believed that something like this could have happened. 49 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 2: What was so unbelievable about it? 50 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 3: Everything? Everything. I don't know how the guy got indicted, 51 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 3: how they got I didn't see how the jury convicted him. 52 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 3: I would have never believed that that could have happened 53 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: in Alabama, no question mine. This guy was not guilty 54 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 3: of this crime, and I couldn't comprehend how this could happen. 55 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 2: There's only one other case where Basley thought the defendants 56 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: were innocent, and that case is almost one hundred years old. 57 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: So what is it about this case to Forrest's case 58 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 2: that convinced Backsley that Alabama is trying to execute an 59 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: innocent man's. 60 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 3: It's a unique absurdity that I've never seen before. It's 61 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 3: too late to give him back all those years he's 62 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 3: been on death road, but it's not too late to 63 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 3: correct it today and get him out for the future. 64 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 3: It's wrong that it's gone this long. It's still not 65 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 3: too late to correct. 66 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: My name is Beth Shelburne. Like Bill Baxley, I was 67 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: born and raised in all Obama. I grew up about 68 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: a mile away from where the crime at the center 69 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 2: of this story took place. I'm a journalist and writer, 70 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: and for the last three years I've been investigating the 71 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: case that rocked Bill Baxley's world. The story begins on 72 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 2: a hot July night in nineteen ninety five. It unfolds 73 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: in two places at once, the Crown Sterling Sweet's Hotel 74 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: and a nightclub that's almost four miles away called Tea's Place. 75 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 2: By the end of the night, one man will be 76 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: shot dead and two others will encounter someone who will 77 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: put them at the center of the murder investigation to 78 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 2: Forrest Johnson is still on death row and he's running 79 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 2: out of time. I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness, 80 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 2: Chapter one, Behind the Out. 81 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 8: Yes, ma'am, this is very calling from Crowns Drilling Sweet's 82 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,239 Speaker 8: Hotel in Birmingham, Alabama. I'm calling because I've had several 83 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 8: guests report what appears on the windows to have been 84 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 8: two gunshots and people running in the parking lot. 85 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 2: It's twelve fifty five am on July nineteenth, nineteen ninety five. 86 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 9: It's twenty three great fight. 87 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 8: That is correct. I have security on the premises, which 88 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 8: is just to the county police, but I'm calling you 89 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 8: because i want to make sure that the Birmingham pleats arrived. 90 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 8: Please all right, we'll get the one out, thank you 91 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 8: very much. 92 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 10: All right. 93 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 2: The Crown Sterling Suites Hotel was a nine story building 94 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 2: in Birmingham. Today the hotel is an embassy suites. Inside 95 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 2: the main entrance of the hotel, there's a pale tiled 96 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: walkway that leads through the lobby. The front desk is 97 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: to the left, but keep walking past it and you 98 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: enter a huge atrium, an open space surrounded by windows, 99 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 2: with an indoor garden of leafy green plants and trees. 100 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: The tiled walkway leads to a coy pond with a 101 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: fountain at the center. It's lush and humid inside, but 102 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: despite all the windows, the field is dim and moody. 103 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: Keep walking past the coy pond and there's a short 104 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: hall that leads to the hotel's back parking lot. It 105 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: was here outside the double doors of the Crown Sterling 106 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: Sweet's Hotel where a deputy sheriff was killed. No one 107 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: saw the murder, but a few people heard gunshots. 108 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 7: I remember hearing popping noises from the distance. 109 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: Barry Rushikov was working at the front desk when he 110 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: made that nine to one one call. 111 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 7: When I heard it, I believe that's when I tried 112 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 7: to call Officer Hardy on the radio with no response. 113 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: Officer William Hardy, who went by Bill, had been a 114 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 2: deputy with the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office for twenty three years. 115 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: He was also a security guard at the hotel, where 116 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: he worked the night shift to make extra money. Hardy 117 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 2: was five foot ten, had a thin mustache, and wore 118 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: his hair in a Jerry curl. He was known to 119 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: be easy going and friendly. When Deputy Hardy wasn't making 120 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: hotel security rounds, Barry usually saw him wearing his brown 121 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: and tan deputy uniform, sitting at one of the tables 122 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 2: in the hotel's atrium, smoking more brand menthol cigarettes and 123 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 2: drinking coffee. 124 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 7: You know, when I worked there, and when I was 125 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 7: working nights, it was me, you know, Officer Hardy or 126 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 7: whatever officer on duty, and or we would sometime have 127 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 7: a houseman who is cleaning floors or something, but very 128 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 7: minimal group and I never felt unsafe. 129 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: Barry wasn't the only person to hear the popping noises. 130 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 2: A few guests at the hotel also heard gunshots, including 131 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: Marshall Kelly Cummings a guest in a fourth floor room 132 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: directly above the hotel's back exit. 133 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 5: I can remember like it was yesterday, ma as far 134 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 5: as the details. 135 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: As I worked on this project, I started referring to 136 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: Cummings as the Keebler cookie guy, because in nineteen ninety 137 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: five he worked for Keebler as a truck driver Midfield. 138 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 5: When I was with Keebler driving one of their step 139 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 5: vans delivering cookies and crackers and stuff, and we had. 140 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 2: A Cummings was staying at the Crown Sterling for a 141 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: company training. After the workday was over, he drank a 142 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: few beers at the hotel bar with some coworkers, and 143 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 2: then he and the other Keepler employee he was rooming 144 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 2: with turned in between ten and eleven PM. But Cummings 145 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: was not asleep for long, but he. 146 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 11: Just I woke up and it was I kept hearing 147 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 11: somebody talk kind of talk. 148 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 2: So you heard some voices and it sounded like they 149 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 2: were arguing or not. 150 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 11: Really bad, but they were. 151 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: Having a conversation. 152 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: Yeah it was male voices. 153 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 11: Yeah. 154 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 5: Well they quit arguing and then I didn't hear anything. 155 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 5: So I laid back down and it probably wasn't twenty seconds, 156 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 5: thirty seconds, forty five. I'm got I didn't count boom, 157 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 5: small caliber gun. They won a big caliber and I'll 158 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 5: sudden the few sects or a boom about the second time, 159 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 5: I say, up a minute, that was a gun. 160 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: He remembers, turning to the coworker he was sharing a 161 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: room with. 162 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 11: I said, you hear that? He says, yeah. 163 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 5: So I stood up and opened the blind to get 164 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 5: my eyes fixed because it was dark. 165 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 11: Then they had the lights in the last week. 166 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: Directly beneath his window, Cummings sees a four door car. 167 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 2: It's dark copper or light brown with a vinyl top, 168 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 2: parked facing the hotel's back double doors. He sees a 169 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: tall person get into the driver's side of the car, 170 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: close the door, and slowly pull away with the headlights off. 171 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 11: And so I called down to the front desk. I said, hey, 172 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 11: there's been shots fired. I heard. Did you hear that? 173 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 7: I believe I got a phone call from someone in 174 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 7: the room saying they heard gunshots. 175 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 2: So Barry makes that initial nine one one call, hangs 176 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,599 Speaker 2: up and decides to investigate it. 177 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 7: Jumped over the counter to walk back, and I was 178 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 7: walked back. I saw Offsta Hardy's radio. 179 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 2: Barry sees Deputy Hardy's radio on a table in the 180 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: hotel's atrium, and right next to it his cigarette still 181 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 2: burning in an ash tray. Meanwhile, back on the fourth floor, 182 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: Marshall Kelly Cummings hangs up the phone with Barry and 183 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: goes back to the window. 184 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 11: And I kept looking, and I kept looking. 185 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 5: Finally my eyes got to where I could see, and 186 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 5: I looked down and I could see him laying on 187 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 5: the ground. 188 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 11: I went, oh, no, this ain't good. 189 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 2: Cummings spots a body on the ground and realizes someone 190 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: has been badly hurt. It's right around this time Barry 191 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 2: makes the same terrible discovery. 192 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 7: Here's a hallway that went to the door that went 193 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 7: back out to the back parking lot. Turn in the 194 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 7: corner to go down that hallway, and I looked out 195 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 7: the door in the distance, I saw Offsta Hardy on 196 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 7: the ground. That's when I ran back to the front desk, 197 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 7: made an emergency phone call to the police. 198 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 8: Just, ma'am, the spiritual cross to exist, and I have 199 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 8: a pit what appears to be a Jupanan County police 200 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 8: officer shot in the back of our building. She ends 201 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 8: up moving people. 202 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 10: In a car drove away and you see he's lying 203 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 10: on the on the pavement. 204 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 8: I'm a little afraid to go up. 205 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 10: Yes, he is a Birmingham Police Office. 206 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 8: Jefferson County. He is a hired nine time security for us. 207 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 4: Right, do you know if you can sign. 208 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 6: Out anything like if you breathe? 209 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 8: I and how much blood? I'm trying, man, my, my, 210 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 8: my promise. I don't know if the people are still 211 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 8: out there. 212 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 10: Okay, we we should be there showing that you find 213 00:12:58,520 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 10: very much. 214 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 8: I'm gonna go and talk about okay, but you. 215 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 7: Go. 216 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 10: Jesson's Catty debut has been shot on the back entrance 217 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 10: of the Hotel Crown show sweep. 218 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 5: It is one of us, and we are they have 219 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 5: got one down who has been shot. 220 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 10: And they said it looks great and it looks too bad. 221 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 10: Three three two. Do we have any information? Do we 222 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 10: have anything on a suspect to go anywhere? 223 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: After he makes the second nine to one one call, 224 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: Barry walks down the hallway to the back parking lot 225 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 2: and then I went. 226 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 7: Back out the office. Already he was not a good condition. 227 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 7: He did have a wound to his face. He was 228 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 7: making a gurgling, gasping noise. You know, he was not conscious. 229 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 7: I believe I took my jacket off, my uniform jacket off, 230 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 7: to try to cover him, or put under his head, 231 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 7: or try to comfort him. But fortunately officers arrived so 232 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 7: quickly and I was removed from that area immediately. 233 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: More than a dozen officers from four different agencies arrive 234 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: at the hotel. One of them is Detective Tony Richardson, 235 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: who says he'd known Deputy Hardy since he first started 236 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 2: working for the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office in nineteen seventy eight. 237 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 9: Being black and bo being black, naturally I noticed him. 238 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 9: I was told more than once to get a haircut. 239 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 9: That you know, to be a deputy Shaff, you got 240 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 9: to have your haircut. So the reason I mentioned that 241 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 9: is because from the first day that I ever saw him, 242 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 9: his hair was out. 243 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: To hear big afro, big afro. 244 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 11: And he would put on his hat. He wore that 245 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 11: hat religiously. 246 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 9: Everybody else's the Shaff's office hated those hats. They didn't 247 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 9: want to wear him, you know, but he always. 248 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 11: Wore his hat. 249 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 2: Deputy Hardy often wore his traditional broad brimmed tan smoky 250 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: the bear style sheriff's hat. It was later entered as 251 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 2: evidence from the crime scene with a bullet hole through 252 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 2: the brim. 253 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 9: And he would have it on his head and all 254 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 9: that hair would be on the side would be out here, 255 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 9: And I'm like, who is this guy? How can he. 256 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 11: Get away with that? And not only that, he is 257 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 11: in the sheriff's office. How can he get away with that? 258 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 9: So I was in tree by him, fascinated by him, 259 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 9: but I was scared of him. I was scared to 260 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 9: meet him because I thought, of my mind, this guy's 261 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 9: got to be crazy, you know, to do that and 262 00:15:58,600 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 9: get away with it, He's got to be great. 263 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 11: I would scatter of him. 264 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 9: But anyway, when I first met him, I met him 265 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 9: and talked to him. He started to feel better about well. 266 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 11: I started to feel better about him. 267 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 9: We were never just busom buddies real close, but we 268 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 9: were close and we knew each other. 269 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: Tony Richardson and Bill Hardy had been colleagues at the 270 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 2: Jefferson County Sheriff's Office for seventeen years. Richardson remembers the 271 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 2: last time he saw Hardy alive. 272 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 9: The last day I saw Bill, my brother and I 273 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 9: my brother would put a sheriff's office offso and we 274 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 9: were standing there smoking and Bill drove out the alley 275 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 9: and he was pulling up twenty second and he stopped 276 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 9: in the road and he started to talk to us 277 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 9: and he said, hey, guys, hang out doing loan with 278 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 9: some money. It's just you know, stuff like that. And 279 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 9: we laughed and talked for a minute. And that was 280 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 9: the last time I saw him. And the next time 281 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 9: I heard Bill's name was about two o'clock in the 282 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 9: morning when I got the call saying and he had 283 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 9: been shot. At that time, I was what was considered 284 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 9: a crimes against Persons detective, which meant that I worked homicides. 285 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 9: The lieutenant felt like because it involved a deputy sheriff, 286 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 9: and you know that we needed all the help that 287 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 9: we could get. 288 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 11: So I got called out. 289 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,719 Speaker 2: Did you go to the actual scene? 290 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 11: Yeah? 291 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 2: What did you encounter when you got there? 292 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 11: Well, by the. 293 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 9: Time I got there, Bill's body was gone. 294 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 2: Paramedics had already lifted Bill Hardy into an ambulance and 295 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: rushed him to the emergency room of Birmingham's largest hospital. 296 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 2: He is gravely injured with two gunshot wounds to his head. 297 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 2: And jaw. A medical examiner notes a bullet wound to 298 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: Hardy's finger likely means he raised his hand in a 299 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 2: defensive posture when he was shot. Police go to his 300 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 2: house to tell his wife, Patricia Diane Hardy, and bring 301 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 2: her to the hospital. Jim Woodward, the chief deputy in 302 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 2: Jefferson County, also rushes over when he hears that Hardy 303 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 2: was shot. What do you remember about the incident? 304 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 6: I got to call that Hardy had been shot, and 305 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 6: they told me said looked very serious. So I got 306 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 6: in my car and went down to the hospital. I 307 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 6: stood there while they were operating on me, and then 308 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 6: I just heard one say that's it. It's over. 309 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 3: We can't do it anymore. 310 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 6: It's over. We can't save him. 311 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 7: He's gone. 312 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: What does that feel like when you are a career 313 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 2: law enforcement officer? 314 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 6: And well, it's kind of devastating to you. You know, 315 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 6: you get to know these guys, and I knew Hardy. 316 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 6: That's a very devastating thing that happened to you. 317 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 2: Deputy Bill Hardy is pronounced dead seven hours after he 318 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 2: was shot. The cause of death is two gunshot wounds 319 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 2: fired at close range. I wanted to know more about 320 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: Deputy Hardy. So I wrote to several family members inviting 321 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 2: them to talk. They never responded, and I can only 322 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 2: imagine his murder must be one of the hardest things 323 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 2: they've ever experienced. But I have learned a few things 324 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 2: about Deputy Hardy. He was married to Patricia Diane Hardy. 325 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 2: He had two children and four adult step children. Hardy 326 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 2: started working as a deputy in nineteen seventy two. His 327 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 2: duties included delivering subpoenas and directing traffic outside the courthouse. 328 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 3: You know. 329 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 11: It was rough. It was rough. It's rough right now, 330 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 11: it's a rough right This many working homicide. 331 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 9: I worked at bunch, but none of them affected me 332 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 9: like the killing of a deputy Share. You know, you 333 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 9: have a bond with the guys you work with in 334 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 9: that uniform. Whether you know them or not, you have 335 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 9: a bond. So when I was a deputy Share working 336 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 9: another deputy Shaff's murder, do you think that was emotional? Yes, 337 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 9: it was very and had it been my decision the 338 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 9: day we caught the people that did it, let's put 339 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 9: them on death throat. 340 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 2: Lead Detective Tony Richardson and his team of investigators have 341 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 2: no eyewitnesses to the shooting and there's no known motive. 342 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 2: A fellow officer has just been shot, and they have 343 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 2: almost no evidence to go on. At the exact time 344 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 2: that Deputy Bill Hardy was shot, to Forrest Johnson and 345 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: his friend Ardregis Ford were four miles away from the 346 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 2: crime scene at a downtown Birmingham nightclub called Tea's Place, 347 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: but they would soon become the focus of Tony Richardson's investigation. 348 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 2: Just a few hours before Deputy hart Is shot, ardregas 349 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 2: Ford gets into the passenger side of his nineteen seventy 350 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 2: one black Monte Carlo. It's an old car and the 351 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: driver's side door doesn't open, so he slides over into 352 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 2: the driver's seat, starts the ignition, and heads out to 353 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 2: pick up his friend to Forrest Johnson to go to 354 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: a club called Teas Place. I wasn't able to interview 355 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 2: to Forest or Ardregas for this podcast. The Alabama Department 356 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 2: of Corrections doesn't allow people on death road to do 357 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 2: interviews with reporters like me, so I was unable to 358 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 2: talk to Forest directly, and Ardregas died in twenty twenty one, 359 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 2: I didn't get a chance to interview him before then. 360 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 2: I was able to speak to Ardregas's mother, Joyce Ford. 361 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 12: That particular night. They said they was going to tease 362 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 12: and see he will go to teas every Tuesday and 363 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 12: he have his particular same parking space and everything because 364 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 12: he would give them good tips. 365 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: Ardregas was willing to pay for a good parking space 366 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 2: because he was in a wheelchair. When Ardregas was a teenager, 367 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 2: a group of men began shooting outside an apartment building 368 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 2: he was visiting. He was shot trying to shield his 369 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 2: cousin and her baby from gunfire. 370 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 12: My son when he got shot when he was fifteen, 371 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 12: I had just gotten off of work. I was tied 372 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 12: in the phone, rang, rang, rang, and I didn't answer 373 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,479 Speaker 12: the phone, you know, And I finally answered it and 374 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 12: they stated that he had gotten shot. I need to 375 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 12: rush to the murdency room. Who that was like a dream, 376 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 12: you know. You hear about things happening to other people, 377 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 12: but when it hit home, you know. And then he 378 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 12: got spinal cord injury. He got shot in the bag. 379 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was parallel. 380 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 12: Te lie from chest down T four they called it. 381 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 12: So that was like a nightmare. 382 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 2: In his early twenties, ar Dragus outfitted his Monte Carlo 383 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 2: with the makeshift system so he could throw his wheelchair 384 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: in the back and drive the car using just his 385 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: upper body. 386 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 12: He would cut a broom you know that broomsticks. He 387 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 12: would put one to the brakes, one to the salator, 388 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 12: and he would tape it to the car. He would 389 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 12: tape it to it. 390 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 13: So he like retro fitted his Yeah, he did. 391 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 12: Did. He didn't buy the regular equipment that he should 392 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 12: have used. 393 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 2: Ar Dragas and to Forest actually came up with this 394 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: idea together. Here's to Forrest's cousin, Antonio. 395 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 14: Green Dracu's was. I guess that was a pride thing. 396 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 14: He didn't want the handicap accessible pedals and stuff in 397 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 14: his car. But as far as come up with this great, 398 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 14: this genius idea where they're gonna well some metal rods 399 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 14: to the break and accelerator pedal so he could use 400 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 14: his hands and dry. Well, he get to thinking about 401 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 14: this thing and metal rods well did from the brake 402 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 14: pedal or the accelerator. That's not too good of an 403 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 14: idea in case you get in the accident. He hate 404 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 14: to see Draga's impaled through the seat right here, So 405 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 14: he goes and buys two brooms out of the little 406 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 14: dollar store wherever, and no measurements, no, just nothing precise 407 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 14: about it. He just gets the broom and breaks them 408 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,479 Speaker 14: and duct tape the sticks, one to the accelerated pedal 409 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 14: and one to the brake pedal so Dragas could drive 410 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 14: his car. 411 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 9: Could he get around? 412 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: Well? 413 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: I mean did he drove? 414 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 11: Real well? 415 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 2: It's been a while since the Forest and Ardregas have 416 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 2: hung out because to Forest had recently gotten out of prison. 417 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 2: He was arrested for driving with a suspended license, and 418 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 2: as officers padded him down at the city jail, he 419 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: tossed something into a nearby trash can. Officers reached into 420 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 2: the can and found a plastic bag of cocaine. To 421 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 2: Forest ended up pleading guilty to drug possession. To Forest 422 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: served about a year in prison, and by the night 423 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 2: of Hardy's murder, he'd been out about three months. To 424 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: Forest puts on jean shorts and a Tommy Hill figure 425 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 2: blue and white shirt, then gets into the passenger side 426 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: of Ardregis's car and they head downtown. They pull up 427 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 2: and park outside Tea's place, but it's too early to 428 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: go inside, so they hang out in the parking lot, 429 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: flirting with some girls who work at the car dealership 430 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 2: across the street. To Forest buys a hot dog from 431 00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 2: a cart on the sidewalk. Regulars start trickling and the 432 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:06,719 Speaker 2: club drinking, dancing and catching up inside. There's something music 433 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 2: low lighting. It's Tasty Tuesday at Teas Place, which means 434 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 2: women get in free. 435 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: I used to go to Teas Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. 436 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 2: Barbetta Hunt was one of the regulars who was there 437 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 2: that night. What was your nickname back then? 438 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: Mama Cat. 439 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 2: That's like in the world of nicknames, that's the best name. 440 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: The word my mother, it's the purpose and my father, 441 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: Fred Perkins, they gave me that night when I was born. 442 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: But that's my name. My name is Mama Cat. 443 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 2: When she was in her early twenties, Mama Cat spent 444 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 2: a lot of nights hanging out at Tea's Place. 445 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: When you walk into the door, that's my spot right there. 446 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: It's on the right hand side. Every time I got 447 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: that was my spot. I see, I don't move from 448 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: this spot. I don't walk to the bag. 449 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 6: I don't walk there. 450 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: I say, were right there. Me and my friend Velliniciaqui Sanders. 451 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: We were together. 452 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 4: We got there before eleven because the club was always 453 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 4: free on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday before eleven for women. 454 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 2: This is Belanique Sanders nicknamed Quisi. 455 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 4: Anything after eleven it was five dollars and me and 456 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 4: Barbetta was very cheap, so we tried to make sure 457 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 4: we got there in free because the little money we 458 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 4: had saved. We wanted to buy something to eat, and 459 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 4: I love to get a chicken plate from there, a 460 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 4: chicken breast with some French fries. 461 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 2: Oh my god, did you know Trafforst Johnson? 462 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 4: Yes, I did. I knew him from hanging out in 463 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 4: the neighborhood in Ansley and I, oh my god, I 464 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 4: had a crush on him. He was the finest. 465 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. 466 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 2: What do you remember about what he looked like? 467 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 4: He was short, a nice body, Oh my god. Anyway, 468 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 4: he was a ladies man. I will say that, sweet, 469 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 4: always kind. He was just a nice gentleman like his 470 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 4: mama had raised him. 471 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 2: Really well, did you guys ever go out or did 472 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 2: he know that you had a crush on him? 473 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 4: He knew I had a crush on him, but we 474 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 4: never went out. No, we would just see each other. 475 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 4: I smiled, be like, Oh that he is, I'm gonna 476 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 4: get him. 477 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 15: Yeah, that's it. 478 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 2: To Forest mostly grew up in Birmingham's Pratt City neighborhood, 479 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 2: or Pratt for short. 480 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 14: We grew up together, I mean closer than just cousins. 481 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 14: We were like brothers because we were all pretty much 482 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 14: raised right in the same little local community. 483 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 2: While to Forest was growing up, most of his extended 484 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 2: family also lived in or near Pratt, including his cousin 485 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 2: Antonio Green. 486 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 14: And since we were toddlers, i mean babies, we were 487 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 14: kind of together took out in this thing, and he 488 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 14: was a couple of years younger than I am, so 489 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 14: he always kind of held on to my shirttail. And 490 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 14: you know, so I've been closely connected with him for 491 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 14: our entire life. 492 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 11: Pretty much. 493 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 2: To Forest's mom, Donna, was seventeen when she had him, 494 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 2: and when to Forest was young, she was more like 495 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 2: a sister to him than a mother. Donna leaned on 496 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 2: her parents and siblings to help take care of to Forest, 497 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 2: and as to Forrest got older, she leaned on him 498 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 2: to help take care of his little brother. 499 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 14: He started at a very young age, much too young 500 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 14: to really be faced with the type of responsibility that 501 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 14: he took on. He was at an age where he 502 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 14: was still a kid. I'm talking about eleven twelve, you know, 503 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 14: just in nirteen years and had to take on the 504 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 14: responsibility of taking care of his little brother. 505 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 11: You know, he had a little brother. 506 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 14: That he got ready for school, he earned his clothes, 507 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 14: he did. 508 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:55,239 Speaker 6: You know. 509 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 14: He's always been that caring little dude, you know, and 510 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 14: he he did that. So he had to take on 511 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 14: some things during that time. You know, his mom and 512 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 14: dad was dead, but his dad was a very very 513 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 14: heavy drinker. 514 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 2: To Forest's father, Ronald, was an alcoholic and would get 515 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 2: violent when he drank, which was every day. This made 516 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 2: home life extremely volatile for to Forrest, his younger brother, 517 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 2: little ron and especially his mother, Donna. She eventually left 518 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 2: Ronald when to Forest was a teenager and moved in 519 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 2: with another man who had an apartment in the Tuxedo 520 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: Projects in Birmingham's Insley community, also known as the Brickyard. 521 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 4: Oh it was called the Brickyard. 522 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: Velainique aka Queisi, the one who had a crush on 523 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 2: to Forest, also grew up there. 524 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 4: It was rough, dre you know, my mom had three girls, 525 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 4: aunt had three and we lived in a five bedroom 526 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 4: project with our grandparents, So it was it was just 527 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 4: a bunch of girls in the house. But I mean, 528 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 4: you know, I had just seen people get killed right 529 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 4: in front of me, my cousin, guys shot in the stummy. 530 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 4: You know, a lot of it was rough. You had 531 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 4: family's daddy couldn't afford to eat, you know, kids come 532 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 4: to school, you know, wearing the same clothes over and over. 533 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 7: It was rough. 534 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 4: It was rough growing up in the projects. 535 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 2: To Forest and his little brother moved there when to 536 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 2: Forest was sixteen. When he was seventeen, to Forrest was 537 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 2: shot and a drive by shooting and spent three months 538 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 2: in the hospital. To Forest's mom told me the bullet 539 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 2: is still lodged in his chest. During this period, seven 540 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 2: of to Forest's friends would be shot and killed. No 541 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,479 Speaker 2: one was ever prosecuted for any of these crimes, and 542 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 2: it was around this time that to Forest dropped out 543 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 2: of school. Several family members tell me that at twenty two, 544 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: to Forrest was somewhat adrift. He spent his time working 545 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: on old cars and playing video games. He was having 546 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 2: a good time dating different women. He had five children 547 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 2: who he loved, but he was also unsettled. He hadn't 548 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 2: yet figured out his purpose, and he didn't know he 549 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 2: was running out of time. As to Forest and Ardregas 550 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 2: wait outside of Ardregas's beeper goes off a few times. 551 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 2: The beeps are from a girl he met a few 552 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 2: nights before, but he ignores her, hoping to meet someone 553 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 2: else inside, tees to Forrest walks toward the club's entrance 554 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 2: behind Ardregas and his wheelchair. They're focused on meeting girls 555 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 2: and having a good time. They don't know that this 556 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,919 Speaker 2: night will change their lives, and the people they run 557 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 2: into don't know they're about to become alibi witnesses. 558 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 15: There was a love before eleven, and we were standing 559 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 15: outside and they came up as far as it was 560 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 15: pushing to Draga's. 561 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 2: One of the first people they run into is Kenyara Pickett, 562 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 2: who was standing near the entrance. 563 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 15: I remember exactly where I was standing, right in front 564 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 15: of the club when he walked up, because I thought 565 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 15: I was shot that night out. You know, back in 566 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 15: the days, it was TFC wearing big clothes back then, 567 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 15: and I had all some black, some black big jeans 568 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 15: but shorts, and I had on some black and white rebox, 569 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 15: and then I think I had on the button down 570 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 15: shut my sister. She had just got out of the hospital. 571 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 15: She had a blood clot and I when she got 572 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 15: out of the hospital, we just went down there, you know, 573 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 15: to celebrate that she came home. 574 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 2: To Forrest and Ardregas make their way past Kenyara and 575 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 2: go into Tea's. Mama Cat and Velanik are already inside, 576 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 2: perched at their table right by the front door. 577 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: Tavarra Johnson, I remember he was pushing Adreka's four in 578 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: the wheelchair. They came together. 579 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 4: I had saw too far, was pushing a Draca's in 580 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 4: the club, because we always standing at the front by 581 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 4: the door so we can be nosy and see everything. 582 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 2: You wanted to see who was coming in and who 583 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 2: was leaving with who? 584 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, ma'am. 585 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 13: About eleven o'clock I saw Tafarest come in pushing Ondrega's 586 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 13: in and I was excited to seeing him because I 587 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 13: hadn't seen him in year, because I had just got 588 00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 13: out the military. 589 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 2: Stanley Chandler is also at Tease that night to catch 590 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 2: up with friends. He and to Forrest knew each other 591 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 2: as kids, and Pratt so we. 592 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 13: Stood there and we start we talked, you know about 593 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 13: old times, you know, and I mean we joked, laying 594 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 13: and laugh. 595 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 2: To Forrest and Ardregus settle in at a table chatting 596 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 2: with people who stopped by watching the dance floor. 597 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 4: I was sitting on the bathroom because when you go around, 598 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 4: it's like a little balcony part that you could sit at. 599 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 4: And so I seen Draca's and to Forest when they 600 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 4: came in the door, because he was pushing them in 601 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 4: a wheelchair. 602 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 2: This is Dedra Carter, who was celebrating getting released from 603 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 2: the hospital with her sister Kenyara. Dedra was also at 604 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 2: teas that night. 605 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 4: And him and my cousin Mona and my sister all 606 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 4: us was just there talking and you know, I think 607 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 4: Tofarres liked it Mona, so you know, he was trying 608 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 4: to hook up with her, but she went no, she 609 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 4: wouldn't never. 610 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 9: Hook up with him. 611 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 4: We used to laugh, talk, joking, like even we at 612 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 4: the club music playing, We're still cracking up, you know, 613 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,240 Speaker 4: you know, just talking and stuff. 614 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 2: To Forrest SIPs along island iced tea and orders our 615 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 2: dragas up brandy and coke. At one point, to Forrest 616 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: goes back to the bar because Dragas says his drink 617 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 2: is too weak, and the bartender makes him a new one. 618 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 2: They linger at the club into the early hours of 619 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 2: Wednesday morning. 620 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,879 Speaker 4: When I said we would probably ship the club now 621 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 4: we was there. I know, it's probably like they used 622 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 4: to close about maybe one two o'clock, so we would 623 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 4: leave right right before that, so I know it was 624 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,479 Speaker 4: like maybe one. 625 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 13: I ain't leaving the club roughly about I'm gonna say 626 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 13: around about right at one. And like I said, he 627 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 13: was standing across the club. 628 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 11: You know, you could see. 629 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 13: Him because I mean, it wasn't a big, big club, 630 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 13: you know. And I just sat to do signs up 631 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 13: and I left and. 632 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:00,919 Speaker 2: He was still there. 633 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:02,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, I left. 634 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 2: There are at least ten people who say they saw 635 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 2: to Forrest and Ardregas at Teas Place between eleven PM 636 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,399 Speaker 2: and one thirty am. Deputy Bill Hardy was shot right 637 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 2: in the middle of that time frame, around twelve fifty am, 638 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 2: four miles away at the Crown Sterling Suites hotel. People 639 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 2: like Kenyara, Dedra, Stanley Quisi, Mama Cat all remember that night. 640 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 2: Their corroborated statements weave together a shield. That shield should 641 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 2: protect to Forest and Ardregas from the accusations about to 642 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 2: head their way. But it doesn't. The state would arrest 643 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 2: to Forest and Ardregas, try them and seek the death 644 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 2: penalty against both of them for Deputy Hardy's For the 645 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 2: last three years, I've been trying to figure out how 646 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 2: this happened. I've read through thousands of pages of court 647 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 2: transcripts and investigative documents. I've done a full audit of 648 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 2: all the media coverage and interviewed more than eighty people, 649 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 2: including several who were directly involved in this investigation and prosecution, 650 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 2: and many who have never spoken publicly about the case. 651 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to find the real killer of Deputy Hardy. 652 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 2: I'm investigating why that person was never found. One of 653 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 2: the first things I tried to unwind, how did to 654 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 2: Forrest Johnson and Ardregis Ford end up at the center 655 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 2: of the investigation when they were somewhere else at the 656 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 2: time Deputy Hardy was killed. Here's one thing everyone agrees on. 657 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,479 Speaker 2: After they leave Tea's place, to Forrest and Ardregas pick 658 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 2: up two girls in the Monte Carlo. One sits in 659 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 2: the back by Ardregas's wheelchair, the other one sits between 660 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 2: Ardregas and to Forest in the front and that girl, 661 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 2: the one in the front seat. What she tells police 662 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 2: will land to Forest and Ardregas right at the center 663 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 2: of the investigation. 664 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 9: I'm about to share his office headquarters along with Yolanda 665 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 9: Michelle Chambers. 666 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,879 Speaker 4: Yolanda is a black female. 667 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 15: She's fifteen years of age. 668 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:56,240 Speaker 2: That's next time. Ear Witness is a production of Lava 669 00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 2: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one 670 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 2: on one. Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, 671 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 2: and me Beth Shelburne. The investigative reporting for this series 672 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:15,880 Speaker 2: was done by Me and MARAA McNamara. Producers are MARAA McNamara, 673 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 2: Hannah bal and Jackie Pawley. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer. 674 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 2: Brit Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from 675 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 2: Marie Sutton, fact check help from Catherine Newhan, and special 676 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 2: thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can 677 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 2: follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and Twitter at 678 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,399 Speaker 2: Lava for Good. To see behind the scenes content from 679 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 2: our investigation, visit Lava for Good dot com slash Ear 680 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 2: Witness