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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steff.

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Speaker 2: I've never told your production of iHeartRadio, and we are

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Speaker 2: once again, so so, so so happy to be joined

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Speaker 2: by the magnificent, the fabulous, the delightful bridget Todd. Thanks

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Speaker 2: for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for having me. It's been too long.

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Speaker 3: I'm really excited to be back with you all.

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Speaker 2: It has been too long, and you've been doing some

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Speaker 2: really cool things, some really cool traveling.

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Speaker 1: Would you like to.

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Speaker 3: Share ooh sure. I was on a little bit of

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Speaker 3: a whirlwind travel vibe this summer. I went to Denver

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Speaker 3: for a psychedelic sciences conference in Denver, Colorado, which was

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Speaker 3: the largest gathering of psychedelic medicine advocates and professionals in

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Speaker 3: the United States. It was a very interesting time. I

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Speaker 3: learned a lot about psychedelics. If anyone has questions, I'm

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Speaker 3: not the expert, but it's my new favorite topic. From there,

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Speaker 3: I went to Moab or mob I hope I'm saying

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Speaker 3: it right, Moab Utah to hike and Arches National Park,

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Speaker 3: which was possibly the coolest, most beautiful experience of my life.

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Speaker 3: I've never seen. I've never really been out west, so

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Speaker 3: it was. It was like the coolest thing have you

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Speaker 3: all ever done, like any of the Utah National Parks

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Speaker 3: or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: I did, and I agree with you. I wasn't.

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Speaker 2: I guess shame on me. Utah wasn't on my radar.

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Speaker 2: And then when I went there, I was like, this

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Speaker 2: is stunning. Like there's so much the colors and the

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Speaker 2: like structures.

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Speaker 1: It's just beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Literally, I DMed a friend from Utah and I

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Speaker 3: was like, why have you been gatekeeping Utah? This is

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Speaker 3: like people don't know about Utah. Yeah. Maybe maybe it's

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Speaker 3: just my own ignorance of that part of the country,

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Speaker 3: but it was probably the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was so cool. I was sad to leave. I

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Speaker 3: cannot recommend those national parks more highly. Also, people really

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Speaker 3: prepared me. They were like, oh, archs National Park is

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Speaker 3: good luck going there. It's so full of influencers. It's

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Speaker 3: so crowded, Like get there early, be prepared to wait

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Speaker 3: for hours. It really wasn't bad. When we got there,

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Speaker 3: they were actually doing a pilot program with a timed entry.

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Speaker 3: We waited in the car to enter the park maybe

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Speaker 3: twenty minutes, and then the hike up to the Delicate

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Speaker 3: Art which is the loop that we did, which is

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Speaker 3: very popular. It was normal, like it wasn't. I wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have called I would not have called it crowded, like

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Speaker 3: from what I experienced. If people are telling you that

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Speaker 3: it's the most crowded place ever and it's not worth going,

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Speaker 3: that was not my experience. We also went kind of

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Speaker 3: had a weird time. We went around like five pm

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Speaker 3: because it was very hot. People should definitely go, that

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Speaker 3: is what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, on my light list. It's really beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I was on a road trip a couple I think

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Speaker 2: it's in twenty twelve, I don't know, a while back

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Speaker 2: and we my friend and I drove through the West

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Speaker 2: and it was cool because we would just see parks

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Speaker 2: and we'd be like, let's go through there, and Utah

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Speaker 2: had so many that we're like, oh yeah, let's just

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Speaker 2: stop there.

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Speaker 1: So I agree, it's beautiful. Highly recommends.

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Speaker 3: Did you make it out to Zion?

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Speaker 1: I did.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's my next bucket list Western hike experience. I

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Speaker 3: really want to go.

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Speaker 1: Yes, your pictures were beautiful. I was very jealous. Well yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean the Delicate arched did all the work being beautiful

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Speaker 3: over the formation of like millions of years, so all.

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Speaker 2: The arch just a little thing of you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: all that time. But yes, we are very excited for

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Speaker 2: you to talk about this. This is something I've discussed

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Speaker 2: on the show. I'm very removed often from celebrity culture

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Speaker 2: because it makes me really uncomfortable. I think it's very

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Speaker 2: important to talk about. So I'm happy. I'm happy you're

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Speaker 2: bringing these things to discuss, but it is something that

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Speaker 2: makes me uncomfortable for a lot of reasons. So with

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Speaker 2: that disclaimer, what are we discussing today, bridget So.

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Speaker 3: It's been a big week for men who want to

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Speaker 3: control the women in their life. Last week there were

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Speaker 3: two big instances of high profile women being treated I

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Speaker 3: would say badly by the men in their lives, and

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Speaker 3: that treatment was facilitated by technology or social media. Any

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Speaker 3: I completely get how you feel about being like your

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Speaker 3: discomfort around this issue. It's an issue that I kind

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Speaker 3: of wrestled with on whether or not it was an

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Speaker 3: issue that I wanted to include in the sort of

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Speaker 3: lexicon of things that I talk about as somebody who

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Speaker 3: cares about social media and whether or not it's making

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Speaker 3: us healthier or you know, living more fulfilled lives. One

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Speaker 3: of the reasons why I wanted to talk about it

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Speaker 3: was that I the listenership of my own podcast, No

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Speaker 3: Girls on the Internet exkews young. It's like a little

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Speaker 3: bit younger than podcast listenership more broadly, and so I

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Speaker 3: realize that, you know, a lot of younger people are

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Speaker 3: having experiences where digital media, social media technology, smartphones are

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Speaker 3: coming in between them and the people that they're in

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Speaker 3: romantic relationships with. That's not really my experience. I've been

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Speaker 3: in a relationship with the same person for a while. Now,

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Speaker 3: I'm older, I'm not like online dating. I don't have

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Speaker 3: a lot of you know, digital baggage in my own

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Speaker 3: romantic life and personal life. However, it is something that

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Speaker 3: I think people who are a bit younger than us

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Speaker 3: that's there every day. And so I realized that my

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Speaker 3: not talking about the issue wasn't really doing a service

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Speaker 3: to my listenership, because this is something that is that

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Speaker 3: is their reality, if people on the Internet are to

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Speaker 3: be believed, and so it is a little bit awkward,

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Speaker 3: and like, I want to talk about this carefully. I

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Speaker 3: want to talk about what kind of digital behavior or

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Speaker 3: social media behavior crosses ALIGNE in a romantic relationship. But

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Speaker 3: I do want to give a few like clear caveats.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about celebrities. I want to be super clear

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Speaker 3: that I don't know, We don't know any of these people.

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Speaker 3: We are not privy to what is happening inside of

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Speaker 3: these relationships. These are not even people that I would say,

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Speaker 3: like there are celebrity couples that I am read up

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Speaker 3: on that I might feel a little bit more informed

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Speaker 3: talking about that is not even the case in that way.

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Speaker 3: I am only talking about the specific communications that will

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Speaker 3: be outlined in this episode. I don't know what's happening

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Speaker 3: in their relationship. I'm not privy to any of that,

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Speaker 3: and I'm only really using these celebrity situations as a

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Speaker 3: jumping off point to talk about situations that it sounds

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Speaker 3: like a lot of us regular folk, non celebrities, might

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Speaker 3: have faced in our romantic lives. So I just want

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Speaker 3: to be really clear about that. Also, the two instances

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Speaker 3: that we're talking about involve women in relationships with men,

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Speaker 3: so it's going to sound very heteronormative, and for that

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Speaker 3: I apologize in very like cis centered, but I want

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Speaker 3: to be clear that that just happens to be the

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Speaker 3: situation that these two people have found themselves in. These

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Speaker 3: kinds of dynamics can happen with anyone of any gender,

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Speaker 3: of any sexuality. Anybody can be a perpetrator of this

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Speaker 3: kind of behavior or face this kind of behavior themselves.

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Speaker 3: And so even though we're talking about women and their

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Speaker 3: relationships with men who are all sis gender, that does

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Speaker 3: not mean that those are the only you know, folks

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Speaker 3: who are dealing with this, because it certainly spans everyone.

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Speaker 3: And also just a huge caveat, I am not a

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Speaker 3: relationship expert. I am not a mental health expert. I

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Speaker 3: am not a lawyer. I am a doctor. If this

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Speaker 3: conversation raises something for you that makes you think like,

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Speaker 3: oh I want more information about this, or oh this

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Speaker 3: dynamic in my relationship, I'm curious about that dynamic, you

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Speaker 3: should a thousand percent be talking to a mental health

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Speaker 3: professional or a counselor if you feel like that this

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Speaker 3: conversation does that for you. So I know that's a

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Speaker 3: lot of caveats, but I do think it's important to

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Speaker 3: talk about this in a careful and thoughtful way because

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Speaker 3: it is a complex topic.

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Speaker 2: It is and myself, as discussed in previous episodes, I

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Speaker 2: kind of escaped the social media.

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Speaker 1: I was like on.

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Speaker 2: The way out of high school when a lot of

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Speaker 2: it was picking up. Are in college and I still

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Speaker 2: didn't really get involved, but I can I can pinpoint.

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Speaker 2: For me, it was more watching like entertainment tonight, but

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Speaker 2: I can pinpoint things where I would see actors I

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Speaker 2: like doing, exhibiting a certain behavior, being in a certain

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Speaker 2: type of relationship, and like can remember how that impacted me.

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Speaker 2: So I do think this is hugely important, especially when

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Speaker 2: you're young and you're kind of like trying to figure

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Speaker 2: out what things look like and just because you know

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Speaker 2: the celebrity is a celebrity. Yeah, there's still people and

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Speaker 2: this stuff still happens, and it can be really telling

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Speaker 2: an informative to break it down. So with that being said,

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Speaker 2: let's get into these instances you mentioned.

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Speaker 3: Let's do it. So last week Kiki Palmer, who was

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Speaker 3: an actor, a podcaster, all around icon. She was in

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Speaker 3: Hustlers recently. She's been famous for most of her life

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Speaker 3: because she was a Disney star as a child. She

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Speaker 3: went to an Usher concert she Keky Palmer just had

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Speaker 3: a baby pretty recently and in the videos and pictures

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Speaker 3: from this concert, it looks like she was having a

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Speaker 3: great time. She was photographed kind of dancing with Usher

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Speaker 3: on stage while he serenaded her. Just if folks have

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Speaker 3: it's in the video. It doesn't look like anything untoward

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Speaker 3: is happening. Like Usher has his arm around her, but

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Speaker 3: it's north of the butt, Like it's not like he's

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Speaker 3: like groping her. It looks it just looks And honestly,

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Speaker 3: this looks like two people who are friendly having a

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Speaker 3: moment of like, oh, he's gonna sarenade me, and like

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Speaker 3: being into it. But mostly it's like they look like

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Speaker 3: two people who are friends. She was wearing this dress

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Speaker 3: that was kind of a black body suit with a

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Speaker 3: full body mesh overlay. But the dress looks fine, look cute.

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Speaker 3: So when the videos of this moment of her being

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Speaker 3: on stage came out, the father of her child retweeted

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Speaker 3: the video and added, it's the outfit though you're a mom.

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Speaker 3: Then he followed up with we live in a generation

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Speaker 3: where a man of the family doesn't want the wife

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Speaker 3: and mother to his kids to showcase booty cheeks to

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Speaker 3: please others, and he gets told how much of a

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Speaker 3: hater he is and yeah, that does sound like hater

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Speaker 3: stuff to me. Most of the Internet was like, that's

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Speaker 3: not we don't want to hear you talk to your

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Speaker 3: partner that way, not cool, not okay. I hate this

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Speaker 3: for a couple of reasons. Just as a side note,

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Speaker 3: As women, I think there's this pervasive attitude that our

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Speaker 3: bodies are not our own and were essentially public property,

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Speaker 3: that anybody gets to exert control over us and what

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Speaker 3: we do with our bodies and scrutiny over us, right,

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Speaker 3: Like society loves to look at a woman and be like,

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Speaker 3: she is not dressed appropriately, She's doing something wrong. Like

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Speaker 3: I think the experience of being women is that that's

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Speaker 3: like part and parcel that experience. Unfortunately, and that trope

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Speaker 3: is worsened. I believe when you are pregnant or when

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Speaker 3: you are a mom. It is telling to me that

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Speaker 3: Kiky Palmer's partner was like, well, you're a mom, as

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Speaker 3: if moms don't aren't allowed to have a night off,

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Speaker 3: to go out, to wear a cute dress, to have fun,

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Speaker 3: to be in charge of her own body, As if

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Speaker 3: your body autonomy just ceases to exist when you have

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Speaker 3: a child or you become someone's house partner, and honestly,

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Speaker 3: if anyone deserves to have a night out and like

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Speaker 3: put on a fun outfit and go shake their booty

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Speaker 3: a little bit, it's moms. Moms work so hard, Like

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Speaker 3: give moms a break, give mom's a night off. Moms

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Speaker 3: deserve it. And I think it really comes back to

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Speaker 3: that trope of once you're a mother, people feel very

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Speaker 3: comfortable judging you, exerting control over you, criticizing what you

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Speaker 3: do with your body and how you dress. But the

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Speaker 3: reality is, like, we're humans. We can go where we want,

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Speaker 3: do what we want where what we want. Our bodies

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Speaker 3: are our own, and just because you become someone's mother

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Speaker 3: or partner or boyfriend or whatever, that still exists. Body

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Speaker 3: autonomy still exists. And so I just hate that trope

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Speaker 3: so much. And I think that was really at play

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Speaker 3: in his comments.

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Speaker 4: If you know Kiki Palmer at all, first and foremost,

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Speaker 4: why would you do that publicly because she's gonna take

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Speaker 4: you out real quickly. But that's a whole different conversation

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Speaker 4: because she's she's the queen of not.

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Speaker 5: Taking let's just be real, honest.

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Speaker 4: But on top of that, it sounded like he's been

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Speaker 4: waiting for a moment to use that against her because

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Speaker 4: he had nothing else before the fact. You know, it's

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Speaker 4: kind of that conversation is that when the whole idea

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Speaker 4: of marriage and why people some people have a problem

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Speaker 4: with marriage and being becoming a mother, is this idea

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Speaker 4: that your identity must disappear and your own by your family,

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Speaker 4: your own by your status as the mom or the wife,

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Speaker 4: and that is no longer your individuality is no longer

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Speaker 4: in play.

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Speaker 5: And so he did so many things, like he just

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Speaker 5: really set.

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Speaker 4: Himself up, especially knowing that her followers are probably going

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Speaker 4: to have a mindset like her.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's exactly what happened. Most people were immediately defending Kiki,

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Speaker 3: but a few people, like very loud, but I would

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Speaker 3: say a minority of voices, but there were very loud

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Speaker 3: voices were saying that her boyfriend was right and then

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Speaker 3: using that as a springboard despative advocate for Q traditional

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Speaker 3: roles in relationships, saying that Kiki was in the wrong

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Speaker 3: for not respecting her boyfriend, not respecting her role as

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Speaker 3: a mother. And sadly people use this as an opportunity

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Speaker 3: to really shame Kiki Palmer. You know, I saw people

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Speaker 3: sharing pictures of her Kiki Palmer has PCOS, which is

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Speaker 3: which sometimes causes hormonal acne, and she she's been upfront

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Speaker 3: about that and shared pictures of what that experience is

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Speaker 3: like for her, and people were sharing those re sharing

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Speaker 3: those pictures, and the vibe was very much like, look

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Speaker 3: how ugly she is, Like she is acting like this

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Speaker 3: and thinks she's surprised. When can you believe it? She

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Speaker 3: gets acne, her body responds to normal like physical stimuli

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Speaker 3: in this way? Can you believe that she has the

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Speaker 3: nerve to have a bodily response and still believe that

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Speaker 3: she deserves autonomy over her actions. So I don't necessarily

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Speaker 3: know if this was her boyfriend's intention, but he really

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Speaker 3: did open up the flood gate for people on the

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Speaker 3: internet to insult his partner, which really is not cool.

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Speaker 4: Right, That was the other part I think When I

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Speaker 4: first read that, I was like, wait, did they break up?

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Speaker 5: Is he being better? What's what's happening? I don't understand

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Speaker 5: did she leave him for usher?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 5: Is that just a chapter that I missed here?

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Speaker 4: That was so confused because it was such an outright

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Speaker 4: attack again public outright display of attack that I was

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Speaker 4: I was like, wait, I missed something. I thought they

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Speaker 4: were happily together, co parenting. What's going on? Not knowing again,

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Speaker 4: not knowing anything about him, and he is kind of

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Speaker 4: like not known. I'm assuming he's not really known in

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Speaker 4: the celebrity world.

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Speaker 3: I googled him to prep for this episode, and the

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Speaker 3: internet has it described him as an internet personality or

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Speaker 3: like an right So take that for I had never

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Speaker 3: heard of him before. That's take that for what you will.

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Speaker 4: I guess we are too, you know. Also, this is

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Speaker 4: just taking a one big step into it. But when

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Speaker 4: it comes to Kiki specifically, there's definitely a level of misogyny.

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Speaker 4: Was again her partner, who is also of the black

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Speaker 4: community coming out and attacking her. She should be the

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Speaker 4: first one to know that this is gonna go a rye,

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Speaker 4: real bad old. Actually being a black young woman who

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Speaker 4: is outspoken and in general, like just the fact that

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Speaker 4: he did that so openly, it literally set her up

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Speaker 4: for all that kind of scrutiny and bullying.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I completely agree. And it's like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, if you all have seen, there's this new

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Speaker 3: thing on the internet where people are talking about basically

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Speaker 3: just insulting the actor Zindia from Euphoria and I think

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Speaker 3: Spider Man. Maybe I don't know, I didn't see that movie.

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Speaker 3: But and basically it's like it's the subtext is so

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Speaker 3: clear that it's like she is a woman of color

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Speaker 3: like that, like that, like that is the subtext of

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Speaker 3: the attacks. And what they'll do is they'll do a

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Speaker 3: side screen of an image of Zendia when she was

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Speaker 3: in Euphoria playing somebody who had substance abuse and be like,

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Speaker 3: and then do a side by side of like a

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Speaker 3: woman that they say just like works at McDonald or

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Speaker 3: was a random girl on the bus, to be like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: this white woman is so beautiful, and you're telling me

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Speaker 3: that Zendaya is a model when she looks like this,

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Speaker 3: and it's like, well, you chose a picture of her

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Speaker 3: when she was portraying somebody who is going through heroin withdrawal. Right,

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Speaker 3: So like the job on picking the worst picture that

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Speaker 3: you can find. But all of that is to say

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Speaker 3: that you're absolutely right, Sam, that there is a toxic racist,

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Speaker 3: sexist dynamic on the internet where when people get the

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Speaker 3: opportunity to insult or pylon a black woman especially, they're

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Speaker 3: going to take it and it's going to be really bad.

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Speaker 3: And I think that somebody who is, you know, your

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Speaker 3: partner should not set you up to be the target

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Speaker 3: of that in this way, because that's really what some

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Speaker 3: people did. And I would say, luckily, as you said,

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Speaker 3: Kiki was like mostly appeared publicly unbothered about this. She

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Speaker 3: posted on Instagram that she wish that she had gotten

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Speaker 3: more pictures in that dress, which like, lol, girl, I

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Speaker 3: love that. You know.

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Speaker 4: She did a little uh sweatshirts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a mother, I want to buy one. Oh

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Speaker 3: my god, send me one please. Yep.

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Speaker 5: That that is the Kiky.

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Speaker 4: She's off your stupidity exactly.

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Speaker 3: And then she also clarified something that that was really

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Speaker 3: interesting and good contact. She says, me and this person

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Speaker 3: we lived together, we're raising a child together. Obviously he

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Speaker 3: saw me in this dress before I left the house,

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Speaker 3: and he if he had a problem with the way

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Speaker 3: that she was dressed, he could have told her that.

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Speaker 1: Then.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't I don't love the idea of

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Speaker 3: like a partner being like I don't like that dress.

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Speaker 3: But certainly if that was gonna be a conversation they had,

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Speaker 3: they could have had it face to face in the house.

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Speaker 3: And make share together. The fact that he needed to

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Speaker 3: tweet about it publicly, I think is really telling that

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Speaker 3: he didn't tell her, he told the world, and it

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Speaker 3: sounds like, according to Kiki, it wasn't about the dress,

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Speaker 3: it was about something else, And it sounds like that

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Speaker 3: something else is like insecurity watching his girlfriend be serenaded

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Speaker 3: by us, sure, and have a good time without him.

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Speaker 3: But I think if you're a guy looking for sympathy

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Speaker 3: from the internet public, the internet streets, just tweeting like

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Speaker 3: I feel secure that my girlfriend is out without me

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Speaker 3: and having a good time, that's not gonna get you

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Speaker 3: a lot of sympathy. That's not going to get like

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Speaker 3: men's rights and traditional gender roles, people advocating for you. You

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Speaker 3: have to be like, no, no, no, I'm not insecure.

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Speaker 3: It's that she's a mom and that she's dressed like this.

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Speaker 3: I think that that that's really kind of like what

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Speaker 3: I think is going on.

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Speaker 1: Here, right.

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Speaker 4: You know, it opens up so much conversation because soon

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Speaker 4: after Winnie Harlow again, this is all about autonomy, because

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Speaker 4: I don't care about what I would be very uncomfortable

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Speaker 4: if I got just hugged on on stage like I've

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Speaker 4: seen a lot of conversation recently of like bands of

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Speaker 4: people bringing people up and doing like dances.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, I would hate that.

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Speaker 3: That would be the worst.

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Speaker 5: That would be the worst. That's me personally.

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Speaker 3: But there's no band who you would be like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: if they brought me on stage, I haven't now every lyric.

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Speaker 3: I would be.

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Speaker 4: Ready, my anxiety would have the want to melt through

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Speaker 4: the floor. Like the truth of it all is because

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Speaker 4: I know I'm gonna do something ridiculous, whether it's follow

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Speaker 4: a trip on myself or just drool somehow, or you know,

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Speaker 4: pass out.

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Speaker 5: Maybe I'll just pass out.

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Speaker 4: But all that to say, like Winnie Harlowe was talked

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Speaker 4: about soon after because she went to a concert and

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Speaker 4: when uh shirre approached her, she sat in her boyfriend's lap,

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Speaker 4: and so instead of being told that she was being inappropriate,

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Speaker 4: she was told you were a pick me.

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Speaker 5: Essentially, I remember that that term. I didn't that term,

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Speaker 5: but like that whole level of like, wow, why won't

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Speaker 5: you let women be? Why can't they just be?

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Speaker 3: That's the thing though, and like that's such a good example.

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Speaker 3: I saw people being like, oh, what a loser, blah

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Speaker 3: blah blah, I don't know much about Winny Harlow, but like,

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Speaker 3: that's my point, is that it doesn't really matter what

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Speaker 3: you do, because it's really not about finding the right

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00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 3: way to be quote unquote. It is a system that

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Speaker 3: says that women's public behavior, the way they present themselves,

399
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Speaker 3: is just up for scrutiny at all times. Right, you

400
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,120
Speaker 3: can be doing something like shaking your booty and having

401
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,199
Speaker 3: a good time and you'll get heat for it. You

402
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 3: could be sitting on your lap and very modest and

403
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 3: you'll get heat for it. It's a trap and a

404
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 3: game with which there is no winning, only losing because

405
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what. It's really not about what we're doing.

406
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 3: It is about the dynamic that says that women need

407
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 3: to be controlled. Everybody gets the right to have an

408
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 3: opinion or a judgment about how a woman is presenting

409
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Speaker 3: in public, whether it's her behavior, how she's dressed, whatever.

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Speaker 3: I completely agree.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: Like on the flip side, if this it happens gender swap,

413
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Speaker 2: then dudes would have been real mad about like you

414
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 2: can't you cool down, Like don't you kill at me?

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Speaker 1: It was nothing, You're being hysterical.

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Speaker 2: All of that stuff, which, Yeah, I'm interested in this

417
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Speaker 2: next example because I saw this headline and I was

418
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Speaker 2: very confused by it. But you, when I was reading

419
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 2: through that one, you do a really great job of

420
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Speaker 2: breaking it down.

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Speaker 1: So who was the other tail you?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 3: So if a KIKI former's boyfriend was like using pretty

424
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 3: obvious language around, like traditional gender roles and respects and

425
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Speaker 3: all of that in a relationship where he dictates the

426
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 3: behavior of his partner, it's pretty recognizable. We know what

427
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 3: that is. We get it. It's clear. But oh, what's

428
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 3: that Jonah Hill has entered the chat because the Jonah

429
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 3: Hill situation is very similar, but it's different in that

430
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 3: it does sound to me like he is trying to

431
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 3: exert control over his partner, but it's dressed up in

432
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 3: a very different way. Right. Jonah Hill is a self

433
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 3: described male feminist. You know, he has sleeve tattoos and

434
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 3: has bleached hair and has talked about his issues with

435
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 3: body image and the media and things that I would

436
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 3: recognize as like, oh, this is somebody who is presenting

437
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 3: themselves as a kind of progressive male ally feminist. You know,

438
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 3: he dresses it up using words like respect and boundary.

439
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 3: But in my opinion, this is still very much controlling behavior,

440
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,479
Speaker 3: even if it's not as obviously recognizable and clockable as

441
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 3: the behavior that Kicky Palmer's boyfriend was displaying towards her.

442
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 3: I think it is still controlling. So here's what's going

443
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 3: down with Jonah Hill. Jonah Hill is an actor you'll

444
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 3: probably know from movies like Super Bad, Wolf of Wall Street.

445
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 3: He was once in a romantic relationship with this professional

446
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 3: surfer and law student, Sarah Brady. This relationship has since ended.

447
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 3: Jonah Hill has had a baby with another partner, So

448
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 3: Sarah and Jonah, these two are no longer together. Sarah

449
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 3: Brady released a trove of alleged text messages from Jonah

450
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 3: Hill where Jonah makes very clear and specific I would

451
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 3: call say, demands of Sarah. Sarah has described this dynamic

452
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: as emotionally abusive, like that's the term that she used

453
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: to describe it, and she posted these text message screenshots

454
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 3: with the comment on our Instagram. This is a warning

455
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 3: to all girls. If your partner is talking to you

456
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 3: like this, make an exit plan. Call me if you

457
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 3: need an ear So this is a little bit of

458
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 3: a summary of the kinds of conversations that they were

459
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 3: having Jonah wants her to take down specific images from

460
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 3: her social media feed and is sending her screenshots of

461
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 3: specific images and videos of her that he believes need

462
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 3: to come down. So Sarah says to him, three removed.

463
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 3: Not the video yet it is my best surfing video.

464
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 3: Would you feel better if the cover frame was different?

465
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 3: Any specific ones that bother you? Jonah says, yes, one

466
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 3: that is not your in a thong. Sarah says it's

467
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 3: not a thong. But okay, Jonah says, And as far

468
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 3: as the other pictures of you in a bathing suit,

469
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 3: surfing or not. Jonah, in response to Sarah saying it's

470
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 3: not a thong, says, I'm done. There's tons. I'm just

471
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 3: going back the past month. You want to argue and

472
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 3: I don't. Sarah says, you're done. Does that mean? Jonah says,

473
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: I'm just over explaining myself. So not great. I don't

474
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 3: think it's good or healthy to have a partner sending

475
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 3: you specific images from your social media feed kind of

476
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 3: pressuring you to take them down. That does not sound

477
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 3: like a healthy dynamic to me at all.

478
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 4: You know, I think it's interesting because we've talked about

479
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 4: domestic violence and different ways of abuse and control and relationships.

480
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 4: And you know, we talked about financial abuse and that

481
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 4: was kind of a fairly.

482
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 5: New type of abuse.

483
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 4: We talked about emotional abuse fairly new as well in

484
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 4: conversation and then actually acknowledging it. But with social media,

485
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 4: there does seem to be a new avenue, and it's

486
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 4: not necessarily this context, because there's a lot to this

487
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 4: that I'm like, yeah, this is really bad and this

488
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 4: could be partially gaslighting again though I don't know their

489
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 4: situation either. This is really gross language for sure, and

490
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 4: gross in demand. But I've definitely had friends in relationships

491
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 4: where the partner and typically do who were well, that's

492
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 4: not you actually have both uh and just calling that

493
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 4: I hate this? Why did you like this picture? You're

494
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 4: following this person, You're doing this? Are you trying to

495
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 4: cheat on me? And to be honest, there has been

496
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 4: a lot of the DMS slipping into the DMS Annie,

497
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 4: which I had to teach her about.

498
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 3: I thought, you're accusing Annie is slipping into DMS.

499
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 5: I didn't know what it was, know what it was.

500
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 5: I had to explained it. She was like, wait, that's

501
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 5: what they're doing. I was like, yeah, girl, get out.

502
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 4: But in that level of like like there's this whole

503
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 4: new level of distrust and concern and control that's happening

504
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 4: because of social media, and this is one of those things,

505
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 4: whether it is controlling their partner's content, which again happened

506
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 4: on Twitch. I don't think we may have talked about.

507
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,479
Speaker 4: I know, Annie and I we did an episode in

508
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 4: which the partner was supposedly forcing his girlfriend to post

509
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 4: specific things and then like berating her for being too

510
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 4: sexy or not sexy enough, all those things. But this

511
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,479
Speaker 4: has become a new conversation that I don't know if

512
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 4: it's being taken seriously enough, but with things like this,

513
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 4: which also again I think is kind of one of

514
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 4: those like oh this is ooh, this feels Yes, this

515
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 4: is bad, but this is also like there seems to

516
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 4: be a gray line here too. We'll talk about I know,

517
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 4: you'll talk more about that, but yeah, this like whole

518
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 4: level of control, and I don't know is there a

519
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 4: term for that already social media control?

520
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm using digital control. But I think you're exactly right,

521
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 3: And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to

522
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 3: talk about this. I acknowledge that it's complex and some

523
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: of these situations feel gray, like we don't really know.

524
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 3: But there is a growing body of academic research into

525
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 3: social media platforms and how that impacts romantic relationships, and

526
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 3: the research seems to suggest that it doesn't impact them

527
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 3: for the better, that social media brings an element of

528
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 3: surveillance and distrust in romantic relationships that is still being

529
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 3: sort of studied and worked out because it's it's so new, right,

530
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 3: we haven't had these platforms for too too long, and

531
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 3: so it's I agree with you, Samantha. I think that

532
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 3: in the work that I have done, I think that

533
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: whenever we're talking about something that has a digital component,

534
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 3: whether it's her online harassment or online abuse or online

535
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 3: hate speech or something like that, there is something about

536
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 3: the digital interface that really allows for people to not

537
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 3: take it seriously and to not think that it is

538
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 3: a real problem. But I think that the fact of

539
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: the matter is is that a lot of people, especially

540
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,719
Speaker 3: younger people, this is how this is how they are

541
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 3: having relationships with people, This is how this is how

542
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 3: their relationships are playing out. And so to say, oh, well,

543
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 3: you know, the digital realm doesn't offer anything that we

544
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: need to really be looking too carefully about at as

545
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: it pertains to relationships that that does not align with

546
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 3: the actual lived experiences of today's young people, because this

547
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 3: is like very much dictating the kind of romantic relationships

548
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 3: they have. I also think that we have really gotten

549
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 3: to a place where we have normalized a lot of

550
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 3: behavior that I think is not great. I wouldn't necessarily

551
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: call it abusive, but behavior that is not great when

552
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: it comes to digital autonomy in romantic relationships. The same

553
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 3: way that for the longest time, things like stalking and

554
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: date rape were fodder for funny plotlines and movies like

555
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 3: Sixteen Candles or There's Something about Mary, these are actually

556
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 3: like very unhealthy relationship dynamics, and they're being played for

557
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 3: laughs and normalized in our culture. I similarly think that

558
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 3: we've spent the last ten twenty years normalizing a whole

559
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 3: host of I would argue unhealthy digital behavior in romantic

560
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 3: relationships and playing it for laughs. Like it's not normal

561
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 3: for a partner to demand to go through your phone.

562
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: It's not normal for a partner to when you're in

563
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 3: the bathroom sneak and go through your phone, or write

564
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 3: down your phone password to go through your phone. It's

565
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: not normal for your partner to be starting huge arguments

566
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 3: about whose pictures you looked at on social media platforms.

567
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: I think that healthy couples might have issues that are

568
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: raised because of social media, but healthy couples talk it

569
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 3: out right if you are And I think people really

570
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 3: need to understand that, Like, you know, when something doesn't

571
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: feel right right, like you, if you have a partner

572
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: who is demanding to see who you've DMed, demanding to

573
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 3: read your emails, or breaking into your emails or looking

574
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 3: at your phone, that's not behavior that healthy couples engage in.

575
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 3: And so even if you are having legitimate questions about like, oh,

576
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: why are you liking all these girls pictures on Instagram?

577
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 3: What's going on? You should be able to have that

578
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 3: conversation in a way that feels healthy and respectful and

579
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 3: it's not full of control and demands. And I think

580
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: that we haven't really had a conversation about what healthy

581
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 3: digital behavior looks like in healthy relationships.

582
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: We did an episode on cybersecurity and how scary that is,

583
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: Like someone gets your phone and they can install this

584
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: stuff on you and just follow you around. But like,

585
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: you're right, you should be able to trust that you

586
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: know it's as you keep saying, it's about this control

587
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: of this. No, I want to control your image. I

588
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: want to control what you do online. I want it

589
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: to seem like I don't want anybody to get the

590
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 2: wrong idea. And what's fascinating to me about this case

591
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 2: there's a couple of things.

592
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: But one is a lot of sports.

593
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: This shouldn't be an issue either way, but a lot

594
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: of sports require you to wear a certain outfit.

595
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: As a woman.

596
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, she should be able to wear whatever she wants

597
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: and it doesn't matter. But I feel like there's the

598
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: kind of as we've been saying, that flip of damned

599
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: if you do, damned if you don't. But then for

600
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: he has so much condescending like you're hurting me kind

601
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: of language, like gasline, like you are actually the one

602
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: that is being unreasonable here I am being reasonable and

603
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: you just don't seem to understand how much you're hurting me.

604
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 3: Oof. Oh my gosh. I have to like take a

605
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 3: step back and remember that these are people that I

606
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: don't know, because that was my exact reaction to those

607
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 3: like I've had men talk to me like that before,

608
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 3: where they are making demands on me and making it

609
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 3: seem as though if I'm not meeting those demands, I'm

610
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 3: hurting them, And actually they're being really reasonable. They're using

611
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 3: words like respect and boundaries and communicating very clearly and respectfully,

612
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 3: but what they're saying is actually really not respectful. You know,

613
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 3: Like I just I feel like I've gotten this text

614
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 3: message before in my life. I think a lot of

615
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: women recognize this behavior. What is really kills me is

616
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 3: how good he is at using like certain language to

617
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 3: make it seem like he's being really measured and reasonable,

618
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: and that she's actually being unreasonable. Doesn't care about their relationship,

619
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 3: doesn't care about his feelings and all of that. So

620
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: you're exactly right, Andy, that Sarah is a professional surfer,

621
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 3: a surf instructor, and a model. It's clear that if

622
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 3: you're in that kind of profession, part of the gig

623
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 3: is like your Instagram, if you want to get sponsorships,

624
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 3: if you want, you know, gear companies to sponsor you,

625
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 3: part of it is how you present on social media.

626
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 3: You're exactly right that, like I wish that everybody got

627
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 3: to be able to have control over how they present,

628
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 3: but like it seems like her digital likeness is very

629
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 3: much like she has to make choices by virtue of

630
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: being in this field, but will align with her brain

631
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 3: and to further her career. That just seems that just

632
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: seems like what it is, and so one it really

633
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 3: seems like Jonah had a problem with this, but this

634
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 3: has It's not like she started surfing after they met.

635
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 3: This was how she lived her life digitally before they met.

636
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: He didn't seem to have a problem with it when

637
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: they met, Like she showed a DM where he was

638
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: commenting favorably on some of her pictures of her surfing

639
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: in a bathing suit. So wasn't like this was a

640
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 3: surprise to him, But when they got together he expected

641
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 3: her to drop it, and so like. In one back

642
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 3: and forth, Jonah tells Sarah that he doesn't want her

643
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: to be a model, even though that that kind of

644
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 3: modeling work is what she had been doing when they met.

645
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 3: He says, oh, and modeling, which is the last profession

646
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 3: I would ever view it as a partner, Sarah responds,

647
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 3: thought picks in quotes. He says, but lol must be

648
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 3: so hard feeling so trapped, Sarah says, well, maybe you

649
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 3: should have asked more about what I do for work

650
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 3: before you decided to date me. It's a little bit

651
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 3: late now, Jonah responds, I agree with everything you said.

652
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 3: I am not comfortable with you posting bathing suit pictures,

653
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 3: nor might I ever want that from my partner. And

654
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 3: I reserve the right and I'm open about it. Let

655
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 3: me know. I will respect you either way. But those

656
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 3: are my boundaries of this romantic relationship. Thanks. I'd love

657
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 3: to know before the premiere, so I'm not put in

658
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 3: a position of publicly flaunting our love. If my boundaries

659
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 3: are going to be continued to be disrespected, that would

660
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 3: be hurtful and triggering to me. Oh my god. First

661
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 3: of all, if I had gotten this text message, the

662
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 3: quickness with which I would have disregarded this man like,

663
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 3: oh my god. But that's exactly it. That like the

664
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 3: way that he's using the word boundary, boundary is not

665
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 3: a demand, right, a boundary, It's completely fine. At the

666
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 3: boundary that he has set for his relationship is that

667
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 3: he does not engage in relationships with people who are models,

668
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 3: then it is his job to exercise that boundary. It

669
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 3: is his job to keep himself out of relationships with models.

670
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 3: If that's his boundary, it is not her job to

671
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 3: be like for him to be like, well, I don't

672
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 3: have relationships with my and we're in a relationship, so

673
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 3: guess you better quit your job? Right, Like, that's because

674
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 3: it's a boundary. A boundary is not in demand. And

675
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 3: so the way that he's able to really use the

676
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 3: word boundary as a means of kind of I would say,

677
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 3: obscuring his behavior and like manipulating her a little bit

678
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,959
Speaker 3: and controlling her, but then also being able to skirt

679
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 3: accountability of like, well, it's just my boundary, so guess

680
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 3: you better quit is really something.

681
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think it's quite funny that.

682
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 4: And I saw this on TikTok, and review of this

683
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: conversation is that the TikToker was like, I take back

684
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 4: everything I said about men getting counseling. I don't think

685
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 4: they should go with counseling anymore.

686
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 5: That they should not go.

687
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 4: And they should not be allowed to go, because what

688
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 4: happens is they don't necessarily get fixed, which is not

689
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 4: the goal.

690
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 5: But you know what I'm saying.

691
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 4: But they find new words to use against you, like boundaries, disrespectful, triggering,

692
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 4: like all of those big, big words that are now

693
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 4: fashionable to say not necessarily fashionable because they're true, but

694
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 4: it's now used on more often. But instead of using

695
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 4: it as a way of expressing necessarily how one feels

696
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 4: or dealing with their own trauma, they're using it as

697
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 4: a way of, uh, controlling another person and making them

698
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 4: feel guilty because of that.

699
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 5: But it's like, oh god, what is this. They've learned

700
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 5: too much.

701
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 3: There's this joke like men will do X y Z

702
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 3: instead of going to therapy, Like men will learn everything

703
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 3: there is to know about ancient Rome instead of going

704
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 3: to therapy. But this just goes to show you. They're like,

705
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 3: if you're just gonna use therapy like it's a get

706
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 3: out of jail free cars and do whatever you want

707
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 3: and treat people however you want to treat them and

708
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 3: control them, maybe you shouldn't go to therapy, right, Like

709
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 3: I saw somebody tweet therapists men who go to therapy.

710
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 3: There should be like a like you know how when

711
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 3: you were in school they had back to school night

712
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 3: where your teachers and your parents talked. There should be

713
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,919
Speaker 3: like a therapy version of that where it's like, well,

714
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: here's the side of him that he's presenting to me.

715
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 3: The therapist the family should have to hear that.

716
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was one of the first things that I

717
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: thought too when I was reading this, was I I've

718
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: encountered this person too in my life. That is very

719
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: much for like, well, I'm in therapy. Well, I've had

720
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: this trauma in my life, and that's why you can

721
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 2: explain it. You can like have that conversation a serious conversation,

722
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 2: but you can't use it as an excuse to treat.

723
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: People this way or to manipulate people this way.

724
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: And I feel like his whole thing was like I

725
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 2: can see him being like, well, I'm in therapy.

726
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 6: Yes, that therapist said it's so what's so funny is

727
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 6: that we actually do have a little bit of insight

728
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 6: into this because Jonah Hill made a whole documentary on.

729
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 3: Netflix about his therapy journey and his therapists, doctor Stutz,

730
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 3: and so that's a different therapist than the couple therapists

731
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 3: reference in the text with Sarah. But the opening I

732
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 3: kid you not. I went back and watched it. The

733
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 3: opening line of the documentary is Jonah asking his therapist like,

734
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: why do you think I am making this documentary with you? Like,

735
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 3: why do you think I want to do this? And

736
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 3: the therapist is like, I don't know. I think it's

737
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 3: because it's attempt to control me and to control our relationship.

738
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 3: And when I first watched that movie, I didn't think

739
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 3: much of that, but going back and watching it for

740
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 3: this episode, it was like, yeah, wow, that is like

741
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 3: pretty insightful from this therapist, but also interesting lens into

742
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 3: perhaps the way that Jonah Hill forms relationships and uses

743
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 3: therapy in those relationships. Just really fascinating stuff. Yeah, so

744
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 3: this is from psych Central. A boundary is something that

745
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 3: is a norm for how you are going to behave right.

746
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 3: Psych Central says personal boundaries are simply the lines that

747
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 3: we draw ourselves in terms of our level of comfort

748
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 3: around others, and so a boundary should really be about

749
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 3: your behavior, how you are going to control your behavior,

750
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 3: not about the behavior of others. And it's so interesting

751
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 3: that every time he mentions a boundary, it is about

752
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 3: something that he is so that Sarah needs to be doing,

753
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 3: not himself, and so a boundary would be like, like,

754
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: one of boundaries is that I don't stay in conversations

755
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 3: where people yell at me, raise their voice to me,

756
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 3: or call me names. I can't do it, won't do it.

757
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 3: So that is not to say that my partner can

758
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 3: never raise their voice or never yell, that is to

759
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 3: say that if that happens, I will leave that conversation

760
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 3: because I don't stay in conversations with people who talk

761
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 3: like that. And so it is not about their behavior.

762
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 3: It is about my behavior, how I am going to

763
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 3: react if this happens to draw that boundary around my

764
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 3: comfort zone. And it's just very telling that the way

765
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 3: that he is using boundary to mean a thing that

766
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 3: she has to do. And I just want to be clear, like,

767
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 3: your partner should not be sending you messages like this,

768
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 3: full stop. That is controlling behavior. If your partner is

769
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 3: sending you screenshots of things offensive things that you've posted

770
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 3: on your own social media, If your partner is shaming

771
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 3: you for how you dress for your job, alluding to

772
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: you quitting your job that that will make them happy,

773
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 3: This is not This is not what respect looks like,

774
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 3: This is not what love looks like. This is controlling behavior,

775
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 3: full stop. And I also think that, like I don't know,

776
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 3: I've been being on thinking about this, I think that

777
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 3: we are in a really weird place when it comes

778
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 3: to male female romantic dynamics. I it doesn't surprise me

779
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 3: that all of this is happening against a backdrop of

780
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:37,479
Speaker 3: like rising men's rights and manosphere content like Andrew Tate

781
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 3: or podcasts like that Fresh and Fit that really display

782
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 3: a kind of obsession with this hierarchy of men over women.

783
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that Jonah Hill or Kiki Palmer's boyfriend,

784
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 3: I can ever remember his name. I feel bad, I

785
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 3: haven't even said his name once, but whoever. I'm not

786
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: saying that they are listening to Andrew Tate or these

787
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: podcasts and take notes. But I think that the way

788
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 3: that that content by those kinds of male men's rights

789
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: influencers is so ubiquitous on social media, Like they'll take

790
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 3: the clip, they'll put the clip on Twitter, the clip

791
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 3: will go viral. You don't have to listen to the

792
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 3: podcast to get the message that they're saying. I think

793
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 3: that perhaps some of those harmful messages about gender and

794
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 3: sexuality have trickled down into our everyday discourse and have

795
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 3: become sort of ingrained in the way that we think

796
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 3: about each other. And that's kind of the point of

797
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 3: that kind of content, is to keep people from being

798
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 3: able to find the common ground, because when you are

799
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 3: having healthy dialogues, healthy conflict, healthy relationships, you're not going

800
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 3: to pay some scammer one thousand dollars for his like

801
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 3: bs webinar on how to pick up chicks or whatever.

802
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 3: They're really incentivizing us being divided and us thinking that

803
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 3: the only way that we can have relationships with each

804
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 3: other is through control and domination and submission, and that

805
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 3: is just not accurate. People who have healthy attitudes around

806
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: gender and sexuality and dating don't also have obsessions with

807
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 3: women submitting and who is on top and who is

808
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 3: in control. That is not what healthy relationships feel like

809
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 3: or look like. But I think that a lot of

810
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 3: these Charlatans have done a lot of effective work at

811
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 3: convincing us that that is a common dynamic in relationships

812
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 3: and it's just not right.

813
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,399
Speaker 4: Well, it seems like whether it's control or they're gonna

814
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 4: cheat on you, Like those are the two like big

815
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 4: things with social media is that either you're gonna dialge,

816
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 4: they're gonna leave you, they're gonna cheat on you, So

817
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 4: you better do these things in order to control them,

818
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 4: which is interesting in itself that that is so dramatic.

819
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 3: Totally like it's all control, right, Like the obsession of

820
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 3: like is he cheating? Is she cheating? Are they cheating?

821
00:43:53,960 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 3: Like even that is like infidelity and what couples do

822
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 3: around like what faithful, being faithful looks like in dynamics

823
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 3: of relationships, people have all kinds of situations that work

824
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 3: for them. Some people are monogamous, some people are no monogamous,

825
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 3: some people have open relationships. Like there are all kinds

826
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 3: of dynamics that work for all different kinds of couple

827
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 3: and people because we're all different, right, But this obsession

828
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 3: with cheating and find out if this person is cheating

829
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 3: and this person is going to cheat, and this person

830
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 3: should cheat, and like that's just not an obsession with

831
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 3: that is not a marker of a healthy relationship, one

832
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 3: where there is trust and communication and infidelity and what

833
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 3: being faithful looks like within the confines of your specific

834
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 3: relationship is a big part of relationships. Like I'm not

835
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 3: saying that healthy couples don't have to figure that out,

836
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 3: but it doesn't look like this finding a healthy perspective

837
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 3: on that? Does it look like this tit for tat

838
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 3: like control. What they're describing are called high control relationships

839
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 3: and that's not what a healthy consensual vibe or dynamic

840
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: looks like within a relationship, no matter what your relationship

841
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 3: looks like.

842
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 2: Yes, and I think unfortunately we've been improving, but I

843
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: still see that in so much of our like kind

844
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 2: of romantic media, and I think people have gotten better

845
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: about realizing like, oh, this is a toxic behavior, but

846
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: I'm still for some reason drawn to those, especially hierarchies

847
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: with gender. But also I wanted to say, I think

848
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 2: it's important to note because I bet a lot of

849
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 2: us have experienced this too.

850
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: Jonah Hill, that.

851
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: Whole idea that he, you know, knows what she does,

852
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 2: and then he.

853
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: Has the problem after they start dating. I feel like

854
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: a lot.

855
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: Of dudes, and not just dudes, but I feel like

856
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: a lot of dudes do that where they are like, no,

857
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 2: I'm cool with that.

858
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: I'm cool with that. So they get the date and

859
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: then you start dating, and.

860
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 2: Then a little way in they're like, actually, I'm not

861
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 2: cool with that. It's like they get their foot in

862
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 2: the door and they're like, hey, you know what, if

863
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: we want this to work, you're gonna have to change

864
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: things Like no, I was upfront with you. And again,

865
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 2: relationships can change. You can have that conversation again later

866
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 2: and maybe viewpoints have changed. But I feel like a

867
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 2: lot of it is kind of trickery. It's kind of

868
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 2: just like, oh, now I got the date, and I'll

869
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: wear her down.

870
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 3: Huh. Absolutely. So there was a thread in response to

871
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 3: this whole situation of a woman who had worked as

872
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 3: a flight attendant, and she talked about how flight attendants

873
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 3: who are women are like it's seen as like a

874
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 3: fun career, your jetst you're going to different places, You're

875
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 3: like really vivacious and usually like conventionally attractive, and how

876
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 3: men would desire to be in relationships with flight attendants

877
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 3: and be like, oh, I'm so drawn to how full

878
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 3: of life and vivacious she is. Then when they were

879
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 3: in those relationships, demand that she stopped doing that and

880
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 3: essentially like break her or turn down her shine. And

881
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 3: I'm here to tell you that the person that is

882
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 3: for you doesn't want to see you turn down your

883
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 3: shine for anybody. They love the way you shine. They

884
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,959
Speaker 3: don't want you to turn that off for anybody, least

885
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 3: of all of them. And I think that you know,

886
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 3: people like there was a there was a dynamic to

887
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 3: this that I think is complicated, so I want to

888
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 3: choose my words carefully. I saw a lot of people

889
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 3: saying men who want women like this, women who are

890
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 3: going to be more submissive and present themselves the way

891
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 3: that they're the man in their life wants them to.

892
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 3: Those women exist so that these men should just find

893
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 3: that kind of woman, the kind of woman who is

894
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 3: going to be submissive and like be cool with being

895
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 3: whoever this guy wants her to be. Here's I get

896
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 3: where that's coming from. Here's my problem with that. I

897
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 3: don't think there is any kind of person who deserves

898
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 3: to be controlled and who deserves to be like made

899
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 3: to be somebody that they don't want to be to

900
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: please somebody else. Even if you're somebody who is to

901
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 3: might describe themselves as submissive, that doesn't mean that you

902
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 3: are like because of that that you deserve or a

903
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 3: or are a good candidate for someone to exert control

904
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 3: over you. Because nobody deserves to be controlled in a relationship.

905
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,720
Speaker 3: That's not what a healthy relationship. And so I would

906
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 3: posit that there is not a type of person for

907
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 3: whom it is like okay for a guy to get

908
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 3: in a relationship with and completely break and change whether

909
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: you're submissive or not so. In his memoir, Trevor Noah writes,

910
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 3: quote the way my mother always explained it, the traditional

911
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 3: man wants a woman to be subservient, but he never

912
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 3: falls in love with subservient women. He's attracted to independent women.

913
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 3: He's like an exotic bird collector. She said he only

914
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 3: wants a woman who is free because his dream is

915
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 3: to put her in a cage. And that really stuck

916
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 3: with me. I think that's exactly it. It's something about

917
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 3: getting a woman who is independent and vivacious and turning

918
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,959
Speaker 3: her down for you. Kiki Palmer is a woman, she's

919
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 3: an icon. She is vivacious, she is hilarious, she is

920
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 3: someone who shines bright. And getting with a woman like

921
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 3: that and expecting her to make herself more modest because

922
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 3: she is yours, I think is exactly the dynamic that

923
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 3: Trevor Noah is speaking to.

924
00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

925
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 2: I agree, it's strange too. I've had this experience where

926
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 2: dudes will tell me when like we start dating, like

927
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 2: I love that you're independent, and then skip to six months,

928
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: Y're like, actually tone it.

929
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: Down a little bit, Like, wait a minute, is that

930
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: just a line you used? Okay?

931
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: I think another interesting part of this conversation that's been

932
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 2: ongoing as we have had these relationships in digital media

933
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 2: is the there was some discussion around her Sarah publishing

934
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 2: these texs, right Yeah.

935
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 3: A big question is like, well, is it cool that

936
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 3: after they had broken up, he's had a new relationship,

937
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: he just had a baby. Is it cool that she

938
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 3: is releasing these texts from an ex partners at a

939
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 3: breach of trust? This is tricky and honestly, like your

940
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 3: mileage may vary, I think it's I think it's a

941
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 3: fair question, and personally my opinion, just you know, representing

942
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,959
Speaker 3: myself and just myself, I think that Jonah Hill really

943
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,439
Speaker 3: went out of his way to like brand himself as

944
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 3: a male feminist who has gone to therapy and is

945
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,280
Speaker 3: really like with it and interested in being an ally

946
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 3: And so I believe if you're going to market yourself

947
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 3: to the public that way, which he's clearly done, information

948
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 3: about how you actually meet those standards that you're setting

949
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 3: publicly does warrant some public scrutiny. That's kind of how

950
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 3: I feel. People may not agree, and that's totally fine.

951
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 3: The New Yorker's Emily Nusbaum, who is a critic at

952
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 3: The New Yorker. She tweeted, it's gross to post your

953
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 3: ex as private text unless you have a really solid

954
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 3: reason to do so. And this holds true even if

955
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 3: your ex was a thin skinned, manipulative weasel. That used

956
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 3: to be a given, but it clearly isn't anymore. So

957
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 3: she and other people felt the same way that, like,

958
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 3: it wasn't cool that she was releasing these texts after

959
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 3: the fact. I don't know. I mean, Emily might be

960
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 3: right here that it is a generational thing, but I

961
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,720
Speaker 3: do think that, like, maybe that's kind of the point

962
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 3: because Sarah released these texts, and so many younger women

963
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 3: took to social media platforms like Reddit and Twitter to

964
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 3: talk about how they had experienced the same kind of

965
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 3: behavior from men, controlling, trying to dim their shine or

966
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: knock them down privately, trying to shame them via social

967
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 3: media and things like that. So, you know, I don't

968
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 3: love the idea of releasing an excess private text messages

969
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 3: after a breakup, But nor do I love this expectation

970
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 3: that we're meant to just stay silent when we have

971
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 3: been mistreated in relationships. Sarah believes that she was emotionally abused.

972
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 3: I would not tell anybody who feels they were the

973
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 3: victim of abuse to stay quiet about it, because that

974
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 3: only benefits abusers. And so I also think there's so

975
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 3: much stigma when relationships are coming to an end. I

976
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 3: can only imagine what it's like for celebrity relationships, but

977
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 3: even in non celebrity relationships, there is so much stigma

978
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 3: around being like the crazy girl, the crazy X. And

979
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 3: so when you don't just shrink away and you say

980
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 3: something about how you feel you were mistree, I think

981
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 3: that we've really stigmatized that. And I don't think that

982
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't love the idea of outing

983
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 3: somebody's private text, but I also don't love the dynamic

984
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 3: that like, okay, well just stay quiet about it, even

985
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,399
Speaker 3: if you feel like you were abused, you.

986
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: Know, yeah.

987
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 2: And I feel like we've seen that also play out

988
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 2: with dating apps, where women usually will be like, hey,

989
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 2: this guy's real bad, like the don't damn like they can.

990
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 2: There's the potential for that to be used in a

991
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 2: very terrible way, and there's the potential for like a

992
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 2: lot of context to be lost. Although I feel like

993
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 2: that would be used more against women than men. In relationship.

994
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: But I also think, yeah, it's if going back to

995
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 2: that quote from Nusbaum, like I think that is something

996
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 2: worth talking, Like that is a real reason to talk

997
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 2: about it, Like I.

998
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: Think that is.

999
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 2: And it's so insidious because it feels like, oh, it's

1000
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,919
Speaker 2: just manipulative behavior, get over it. But because we don't

1001
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 2: talk about it, because we view that as kind of

1002
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 2: a lesser abuse. We we are like, well, just move on,

1003
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 2: like just he's moved on, when it's.

1004
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: By doing that we are harming.

1005
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 2: Other people who are watching. You're like, oh, okay, we

1006
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 2: never talk about this, it must just be me or

1007
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 2: something like that. So I think there is like a

1008
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 2: real benefit in talking about it.

1009
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah.

1010
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 4: I mean I know a child star has come out

1011
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 4: recently against Jonahill as well because of Sarah's response, and

1012
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 4: there's some allegations floating about whatever it may be. But

1013
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 4: I think there there is that whole level of like

1014
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 4: what's too much when you start sharing everything in social media,

1015
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 4: just like kind of like Kiki's boyfriend, Like, dude, that

1016
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 4: was too much?

1017
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 3: What do you do?

1018
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 5: Like you know, there's there's moments.

1019
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 4: Of like finding those boundaries and sharing too much and

1020
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 4: the reality when it comes to celebrities, is that, Yeah,

1021
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 4: you're gonna get outed very quickly in this day and

1022
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 4: age with social media, so you better be staying true

1023
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 4: and you kind of you deserve your privacy, for sure.

1024
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 4: Everybody deserves their privacy for sure, But don't play a

1025
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 4: character in real life and not expect to be called out.

1026
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 3: That is such a good way to put that. I

1027
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,280
Speaker 3: saw so many people being like, you know, the only

1028
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 3: thing that is bad here is that Sarah released these

1029
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 3: private text messages. And my thinking is like, if what

1030
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 3: Jonah Hill said to her is fine and totally normal,

1031
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 3: why is it bad that she released the text message.

1032
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 3: It can't both can't be true. It can't be like

1033
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 3: Jonah Hill didn't say anything untoward, and also she is

1034
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 3: trying to cancel him or ruin his life by making

1035
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 3: it public. And I read in a follow up message

1036
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 3: that she released, she said that not releasing those messages

1037
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 3: was becoming damaging to her mental health. And I don't

1038
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 3: like a dynamic that says that she should sacrifice her

1039
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 3: well being in mental health if that's truly how she

1040
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 3: feels to not cause a problem for a celebrity, Like,

1041
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 3: I don't know, I just feel like, like Jonah Hill

1042
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 3: clearly has a pr team I think will probably be fine.

1043
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 3: I don't think that, like, I don't think that's her

1044
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 3: job to keep the Jonah Hill celebrity machine rolling at

1045
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 3: the expense of our own mental health. Yeah, and Sam,

1046
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 3: I think that you put it well that we do

1047
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 3: need to have some conversations around what healthy behavior looks

1048
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 3: like as it pertains to our romantic relationships and social media.

1049
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 3: I don't think that we've had that conversation. And what

1050
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 3: I'm hoping is that this moment can spark us to

1051
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 3: have that conversation a little bit more clearly. Like for me,

1052
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 3: I don't put anything about my romantic life on social media.

1053
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 3: That's an intentional choice for a lot of reasons. It

1054
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 3: wasn't always like that, Like that was an evolution. It

1055
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 3: just works for me. It works for me, it works

1056
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 3: for the people that I'm in romantic relationships with. You know,

1057
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 3: I think people got to find what works for them,

1058
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 3: what feels healthy and respectful for them. And nobody can

1059
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 3: tell you that but you and so is this stuff

1060
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 3: really matters? You know, there's a growing body of research,

1061
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 3: as I said, that suggests that social media can make

1062
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 3: relationships more complicated and more difficult. And separately, one study

1063
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 3: even found that social media triggered jealousy is linked with

1064
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 3: intimate partner violence. I'm not saying that's what's going on

1065
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 3: on either of these relationships, but just something to know

1066
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 3: is that, like, this is not just online drama or whatever.

1067
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 3: This has real world impact and consequences. And again, I

1068
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 3: don't think that we should be just dismissing how relationships

1069
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 3: play out on social media as something that is not

1070
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 3: worth scrutiny, because it clearly is. And so I put

1071
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 3: together a few like tips from this conversation that maybe

1072
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 3: will be helpful for folks, and if it's not, that's

1073
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 3: fine too. One is that your partner should not be

1074
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 3: using social media to shame you. Like, if you have

1075
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 3: an issue in your relationship, healthy couples talk about it,

1076
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 3: they don't tweet about it. Right. If your partner doesn't

1077
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 3: like how you are leaving the house while you're dressed,

1078
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 3: they tell you. They don't tweet it to the internet

1079
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 3: streets and let the internet streets do their thing. That

1080
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 3: is not how healthy couples resolve conflict, right, So that's one. Two,

1081
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 3: You control what you post on social media. If somebody

1082
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 3: is sending you screenshots to that you do things or

1083
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 3: not do things, that's not cool and that's not respectful.

1084
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 3: So you should be in control of how you show

1085
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 3: up on social media. Trust your gut, right, Like, you know,

1086
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 3: the same way that when I read those Jonah Hill texts,

1087
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 3: they kind of the hair in the back of my

1088
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 3: neck kind of stood up because I've gotten messages like

1089
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 3: that from people and it's like, I know that those

1090
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 3: are not respectful. Trust your gut. We all have that

1091
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 3: voice in our head that it's like you're just being crazy.

1092
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 3: He's being fine, Like you're not, Like you're not respecting him.

1093
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 3: You're gonna lose him. Don't listen to that voice. That

1094
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 3: voice has been programmed by decades of patriarchy and sexism

1095
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 3: and toxic gender stuff and all of that. Trust your gut.

1096
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 3: You know when someone is treating you with respect and

1097
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 3: you need to listen to that voice and act on

1098
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 3: that voice. And just lastly, yeah, digital control is still control,

1099
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 3: and everybody deserves auton of over their lives and bodies,

1100
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 3: both online and off.

1101
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh, what's that term?

1102
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 2: I'm so out of touch with all the terms, But

1103
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 2: is it called like vague posting.

1104
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 3: It's like when you post yeah, vague posting.

1105
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 5: And some bad things happening.

1106
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: Yes, but you don't say who it is.

1107
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 5: Twitter, MySpace were like Prime Space.

1108
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: Oh my god, people on my feet. The one that

1109
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 3: gets me is like, I need your prayers and good

1110
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 3: thoughts right now. Don't ask me what's going on. I

1111
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 3: need your prayers, prayers up. But it's like, well, if

1112
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 3: you didn't want people to ask what was going on,

1113
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 3: there was a way to do that which is not post.

1114
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 3: Is that the one that gets me?

1115
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well, uh yeah, this is such an important

1116
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 2: conversation happened, And once again Bridget like, there are so

1117
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 2: many different paths we could have gone down, and so

1118
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 2: many thoughts. We love having you, uh to talk about

1119
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 2: these things.

1120
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: Where can the good listeners find you?

1121
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me. I knew that I

1122
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 3: could trust y'all to have this conversation with all the

1123
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 3: nuance that it has, so thank you for that. Folks

1124
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 3: can listen to my podcast on iHeartRadio called Their Nobles

1125
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 3: on the Internet. Can follow me on Twitter at Bridget

1126
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 3: Marie or on Instagram at Bridget Marie and DC.

1127
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: Yes yes, yes, yes, and we look forward to having

1128
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:15,919
Speaker 1: you back.

1129
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 3: Brigitte Oh anytime, always yes.

1130
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 2: And listeners, be sure to follow Bridget if you're not already.

1131
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. You can contact us at Stuff Media,

1132
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 2: Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on

1133
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 2: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok

1134
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 2: at Stuff Whenever Told You. We also have a tea

1135
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 2: public store.

1136
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: We have a book.

1137
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 2: You can pre order it at stuff you Should Read

1138
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 2: Books dot com or on audible. Thanks as always to

1139
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 2: our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our

1140
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 2: contributors Joey.

1141
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: Thank y'all, and thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never

1142
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 1: Told You is production by Heart Radio.

1143
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check

1144
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 2: out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or where you listen

1145
00:59:53,680 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.