WEBVTT - Ep 62: Fucked Up's Damian Abraham

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<v Speaker 1>Loud and Quiet presents Midnight Chats.

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<v Speaker 2>Good evening podcast fans, Greg here on another cold, dark

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<v Speaker 2>Thursday night, bringing you a new episode of Midnight Chats.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for joining me wherever you're listening to this, and

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<v Speaker 2>cheers to Stewart who brought you the last two episodes

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<v Speaker 2>back to back. That was Backs to Jewelry and Charlie XX.

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<v Speaker 2>Dig those out if you haven't already. We definitely bring

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<v Speaker 2>you a variety of stories and guests on this podcast

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<v Speaker 2>of ours. Tonight's guest may not have spent twenty eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>touring stadiums around the world with Taylor Swift like Charlie

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<v Speaker 2>XX had, but I hope that you're going to enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>this conversation all the same. On the podcast this evening

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<v Speaker 2>is Damian Abraham, best known as frontman with Toronto hardcore

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<v Speaker 2>punk band Fucked Up. If you're listening to this thinking

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know who that is, you are in retreat.

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<v Speaker 2>They are the kind of band that you could spend

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<v Speaker 2>hours not only googling, but more importantly days listening to,

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<v Speaker 2>such as the amount of material that they've released over

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<v Speaker 2>the years. But if I was going to give you

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<v Speaker 2>one tip, maybe start by youtubing their performance of Baiting

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<v Speaker 2>the Public on MTV Live in two thousand and seven,

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<v Speaker 2>or Twice Born a year later, also for MTV. That

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<v Speaker 2>will put you firmly in the picture about who Fucked

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<v Speaker 2>Up are personally. I met Damien and the band for

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<v Speaker 2>the first time a decade ago. I was just starting

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<v Speaker 2>out as a music writer, and the weekend that I

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<v Speaker 2>spent with them involved lots of blood and pepsi and

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<v Speaker 2>a giant cardboard Trojan Horse. And it's still one of

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<v Speaker 2>the most memorable commissions that I've ever done all these

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<v Speaker 2>years later. But a lot has happened since then, not

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<v Speaker 2>least that Fucked Up became kind of a big deal,

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<v Speaker 2>as unlikely as it seemed. They went on to share

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<v Speaker 2>stages with the likes of Foo Fighters and Arcade Fire,

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<v Speaker 2>and toured the world multiple times. I should probably say

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<v Speaker 2>that they released their latest album, Dose You Dreams in

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<v Speaker 2>October of this year. Do check it out. It's extraordinary stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not Damien's only pursuit though. The last few years,

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<v Speaker 2>from the office in his house back home in Canada,

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<v Speaker 2>he's been making his very successful podcast series Turned Out

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<v Speaker 2>a Punk. Just today, in fact, I finished listening to

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<v Speaker 2>the recent one he did with Cedric Bixler from at

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<v Speaker 2>the I should probably be telling you to subscribe to

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<v Speaker 2>Midnight Chats at this point in my introduction, but do

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<v Speaker 2>go and check out Turned Out a Punk because it's

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<v Speaker 2>an excellent series and you don't have to be a

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<v Speaker 2>punk fan in fact to appreciate the guests and the

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<v Speaker 2>connections that explores on that Damiens have won off though,

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<v Speaker 2>a real self confessed nerd and one of the few

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<v Speaker 2>people I've met who, if he went on Mastermind, could

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<v Speaker 2>basically take his pick when it came to specialist subjects,

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<v Speaker 2>be it punk music, wrestling, or the current international political

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<v Speaker 2>debate surrounding the legalization of marijuana, all of which you're

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<v Speaker 2>about to hear us go into on this podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>Back in August, Fucked Up had a fleeting trip to

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<v Speaker 2>London to play at Visions Festival. Damien was due to

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<v Speaker 2>come to Loud and Quiet's offices to record this, but

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<v Speaker 2>very graciously offered to relocate to his hotel room nearby

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<v Speaker 2>when a guy with a pneumatic drill started digging up

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<v Speaker 2>the crete car park outside our window. Poor Damien had

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<v Speaker 2>literally just stepped off an overnight flight. He hadn't even

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<v Speaker 2>had a moment to unpack his suitcase. But he is

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<v Speaker 2>a pro, and he is a gentleman, even offering me

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<v Speaker 2>some of his pot noodle, which, incidentally, and I do

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<v Speaker 2>feel bad about this, went cold by the time we'd

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<v Speaker 2>finished this podcast, so I probably owe him lunch at

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<v Speaker 2>some point before I leave you with that. Though this

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<v Speaker 2>is the penultimate episode of this series of Midnight Chats,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll leave Stuart with you next week to wrap it up.

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<v Speaker 2>After that, will disappear for a little while, but we

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<v Speaker 2>will bring you some more episodes for me personally, though,

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<v Speaker 2>I've loved chatting to everyone from Interpol to Anna Kelvi

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<v Speaker 2>to John Grant for this series. I hope you've enjoyed listening.

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<v Speaker 2>Like we always say, if you do want to do

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<v Speaker 2>us a favor, it's subscribe, comment, share, and more. Basically,

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<v Speaker 2>just tell your mates if you do like Midnight Chats.

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<v Speaker 2>But let's crack on. This is episode sixty two. This

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<v Speaker 2>one is Damien from Fucked Up Enjoy Damien, Welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>Midnight Chats.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you for having me in Monday Chats in my

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<v Speaker 4>hotel room.

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<v Speaker 2>I know we had planned full disclosure. Normally, regular listeners

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<v Speaker 2>will know that we record this podcast either in our

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<v Speaker 2>office in East London or sometimes we take it out

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<v Speaker 2>and about depending on who we're speaking to, is you

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<v Speaker 2>know where they are at that time. But rather inconveniently,

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<v Speaker 2>they decided to dig up the car park next door

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<v Speaker 2>to the office, and at the moment there's a giant

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<v Speaker 2>drill that's like basically taking out a whole chunk of concrete.

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<v Speaker 2>So we had we had to come here. Thanks for

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<v Speaker 2>accommodating us.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I'm very happy. I like, you know, I love

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<v Speaker 4>having people over. I wish I could have prepared something

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<v Speaker 4>a little bit more substantial than one order of pot noodle,

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<v Speaker 4>but you know, we can share.

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<v Speaker 2>I got two spoons, th mate, Yeah what flavor if

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<v Speaker 2>you got one?

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<v Speaker 4>Bombay bad boy two spoons?

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<v Speaker 2>But it's not your favorite part.

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<v Speaker 4>No, I'm a beef and tomato. I'm definitely a beef

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<v Speaker 4>and tomato fan. I also love one. I don't know

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<v Speaker 4>if they're still doing it because I haven't seen it

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<v Speaker 4>in a while. But when we used to come here

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<v Speaker 4>and they'd have like the surprise flavors, like kebab flavor

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<v Speaker 4>or like Southern fried chicken flavor, and it never really

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<v Speaker 4>tasted like any of those things, but it was always delicious.

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<v Speaker 2>And they always do yeah, limited runs. They do it

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<v Speaker 2>with Walkers Crisps as well. They'll do like they'll be like,

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<v Speaker 2>these three flavors are available for the next six months.

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<v Speaker 2>The one that sells the best we will keep. But

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<v Speaker 2>they're all sorts of yeh, bizarre things like English breakfast flavor,

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<v Speaker 2>crisps and stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I like Branston pickle flavor.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a good flavor when you have that one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't think I ever got round to those,

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<v Speaker 2>but does sound good.

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<v Speaker 3>They're delicious.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of people we have on our podcast when

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<v Speaker 2>they come on, it might be like the first time,

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<v Speaker 2>certainly amongst the first times that they've done a podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>But you are a very experienced handed. You've got not

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<v Speaker 2>just one, but a couple of podcasts, right.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I do. But I'm actually not as experienced in

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<v Speaker 4>this side of the podcast. Like I keep waiting for

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<v Speaker 4>me to ask a question of you, like that's what

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<v Speaker 4>I'm so used to doing. Like, yeah, I think I've

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<v Speaker 4>only been as a guest on a podcast. Well, my

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<v Speaker 4>friend Danko Jones's podcast, I've been on that a few times.

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<v Speaker 4>But I'm also like I'm like a co host on

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<v Speaker 4>that one too. I think I've only been a guest

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<v Speaker 4>on like two or three podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so this is a little bit of a new experience.

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<v Speaker 4>You're gonna have to hold my hand and guide me

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<v Speaker 4>into this, because I might screw this all up.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna start swearing.

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<v Speaker 4>And saying things I wouldn't need you to edit, like

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<v Speaker 4>all the things you hate when you're interviewing on a podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>What's your favorite thing about making your own podcasts?

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<v Speaker 4>I think it was, you know, I just before I

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<v Speaker 4>did my own podcast, I was the host of The

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<v Speaker 4>Wedge on Much Music, which is like for It's like

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<v Speaker 4>the music program that all of us of a certain

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<v Speaker 4>age grew up with in Canada that got wound up

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<v Speaker 4>getting into alternative for punk music. And I was doing

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<v Speaker 4>that show, and I love doing that show. But the

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<v Speaker 4>thing that bothered me was the fact that I always

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<v Speaker 4>had to incorporate stuff that I wasn't necessarily interested in

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<v Speaker 4>or you know, I'd be in these interviews and I'd

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<v Speaker 4>be asking the person like, oh, like you played in

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<v Speaker 4>this band before you did the band you're in now,

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<v Speaker 4>let's talk about that for a while. And then my

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<v Speaker 4>producer would be like kind of got to keep it

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<v Speaker 4>on what's happening now? So when I lost that job,

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<v Speaker 4>I was like, well, I'm going to just do my

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<v Speaker 4>own thing, and I'm going to make it exactly like

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<v Speaker 4>I want it to be. And it's just an excuse

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<v Speaker 4>to punish people, Like there's very few socially acceptable situations

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<v Speaker 4>that allow you to grill someone, like just grill them

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<v Speaker 4>with questions and pepper them with all sorts of things.

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<v Speaker 4>But a podcast is one of those places. So I

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<v Speaker 4>can have these kind of conversations with people that I'm

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of times friends with that I've toured with

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<v Speaker 4>before or played in other bands with, but never had

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<v Speaker 4>the opportunity to find out, like what was your demo band?

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<v Speaker 3>Like what do they sound like?

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<v Speaker 2>So your podcast will turn out punk? Yes, And so

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<v Speaker 2>basically give it to people. If anybody hasn't heard this yet,

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<v Speaker 2>because I've kind of been gorging on your podcast recently,

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<v Speaker 2>as I've already told you, I've been kind of making

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<v Speaker 2>my way back through your substantial archive almost two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>episodes now, I think. Yeah, So in a nutshell, it's

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<v Speaker 2>called turned out punk. Tell people what you do with it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's me sitting down and having a conversation with for

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<v Speaker 4>the most part, one person who was involved in punk

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<v Speaker 4>may or may not still be involved in punk, but

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<v Speaker 4>had their life changed by it in a major way.

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<v Speaker 3>And so it's amazing. I've always kind of felt this,

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<v Speaker 3>like there is this weird.

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<v Speaker 4>Commonality between a lot of the people that I find

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<v Speaker 4>interesting in pop culture, and that's the fact that they

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<v Speaker 4>were always somehow into punk music, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>And I just revel in the opportunity to kind of

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<v Speaker 3>sit down with.

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<v Speaker 4>Someone when I know this stuff about him and just

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<v Speaker 4>have this conversation. I think Jack Black's like the perfect example.

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<v Speaker 4>He was a guest recently. He's someone that I went

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<v Speaker 4>on tour with five six years ago with Tenacious Ty

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<v Speaker 4>and Fucked Up and the Foo Fighters, And on that tour,

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<v Speaker 4>I was asking him like, were you in a punk

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<v Speaker 4>Like were you a punk rocker guy? Because it seems

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<v Speaker 4>like you might have been. He's like, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 4>not at all, not at all. And then over the

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<v Speaker 4>years the evidence began to emerge and I realized my

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<v Speaker 4>instincts were correct. Jack was the liar in this situation,

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<v Speaker 4>and so I had him on the show and exposed

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<v Speaker 4>his lie for the world to see he was indeed

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<v Speaker 4>a punk rocker.

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<v Speaker 2>The Jack Black episode is definitely one of the highlights.

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<v Speaker 2>So I went back and I listened to that one

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<v Speaker 2>the other day, and it did unveil this whole kind

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<v Speaker 2>of punk rock history with him that people would probably

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<v Speaker 2>not be familiar with at all. But amongst that you've had, well,

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<v Speaker 2>the series itself forms if people have like a passing

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<v Speaker 2>interest in punk, or even if you're a real punk head,

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<v Speaker 2>it's beginning to create a real ata z history of

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<v Speaker 2>punk rock because of the people that you've had on

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<v Speaker 2>it that are from various different places around the world,

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<v Speaker 2>but also different scenes, different cities, different sounds, and so

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<v Speaker 2>it's like creating this whole universe where the dots are

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<v Speaker 2>like joining it's. It's it's a really immersive listen because

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<v Speaker 2>what you're what you're doing is basically creating this sort

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<v Speaker 2>of yeah, of all the stars of punk that are

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<v Speaker 2>out there that you're kind of putting them in one place.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, there must be some pride in basically

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<v Speaker 2>putting together this this kind of compendium of the history

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<v Speaker 2>of punkin away.

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<v Speaker 3>I thank you for that. I think that is just

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<v Speaker 3>a happy accident.

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<v Speaker 4>If that's happening because I think, you know it definitely,

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<v Speaker 4>it fills my bucket, as my children like to say

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<v Speaker 4>when they're happy. When I do find like a weird

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<v Speaker 4>connection between two people. Like two weeks ago, I had

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<v Speaker 4>Dwid leasing of the band Integrity, one of my it's

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<v Speaker 4>like my Frank Sinatra as far as vocalists go, like

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<v Speaker 4>someone I.

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<v Speaker 3>Have been heavily influenced by.

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<v Speaker 4>And then I had Dave Paho from Slint, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>like one of them, you know Swan like Papa Am

0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.960
<v Speaker 4>like a legendary indie rock guitarist, and both of them

0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.440
<v Speaker 4>from different cities, have the same starting point in Louisville,

0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.520
<v Speaker 4>Kentucky at this band that Dave played in Maurice's shows,

0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.520
<v Speaker 4>and Dwyd was a fan of this band, Maurice, And

0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:01.040
<v Speaker 4>so in that room.

0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:01.959
<v Speaker 3>You also have Will Oldham.

0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.199
<v Speaker 4>So you've got Will Oldham, Slint, all the people that

0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.080
<v Speaker 4>would be Slint and Dwid from Integrity in this like

0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:14.120
<v Speaker 4>little tiny club in Louisville, Kentucky. Like these three people

0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.199
<v Speaker 4>that would have massive impacts on kind of different sounding genres,

0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.200
<v Speaker 4>but like yet they all have the same starting point.

0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.720
<v Speaker 2>You've had people like Nate Mendel from Food Fighters, who's

0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.240
<v Speaker 2>in Brotherhood and.

0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:28.880
<v Speaker 4>We might be in this band of the food Fighters too,

0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:30.880
<v Speaker 4>But he's really in Brotherhood, even though he was never

0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:32.720
<v Speaker 4>allowed to be an official member because he wasn't straight

0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:33.920
<v Speaker 4>edge and he wore no effect shirt.

0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes exactly, and then he went on being sunny Tale.

0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.840
<v Speaker 3>In Real Estate. He's also in Galleon's Lap. He's got like.

0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.880
<v Speaker 2>He's got the quiet member of Food Fighters with serious history,

0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:44.199
<v Speaker 2>isn't he.

0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.120
<v Speaker 4>The food Fighters to me are one of the great

0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.520
<v Speaker 4>They are the greatest punk rock supergroup of all time.

0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:51.920
<v Speaker 4>And no diss on Taylor, because I haven't talked to

0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.480
<v Speaker 4>Taylor about it. I'm sure he does have a punk

0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:55.520
<v Speaker 4>pass that I haven't discovered yet. But when you have

0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:59.000
<v Speaker 4>the original drummer in that band, you've got members of

0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:03.960
<v Speaker 4>the Germs, You've got members of Dane Bramage and Scream

0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.720
<v Speaker 4>in Mission Impossible. You've got like members of Brotherhood and

0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.720
<v Speaker 4>Didley Squad in there. You've got members of all these

0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.800
<v Speaker 4>other Seattle cool straight edge bands, like the pre other

0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.719
<v Speaker 4>sunny of the Real Estate band that the drummer was in.

0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.520
<v Speaker 4>It's like, Wow, they put together like the greatest punk

0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 4>band ever without even realizing it and unfortunately, well not unfortunately,

0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.560
<v Speaker 4>They've done incredibly well for themselves. I don't think they

0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.040
<v Speaker 4>have any regrets they decided to play a different genre

0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.160
<v Speaker 4>of music. But I would long for the day where

0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.520
<v Speaker 4>they're like, Okay, let's do it, let's write a hardcore

0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.800
<v Speaker 4>record and it's like Brotherhood meets the Germs meets Dane Bramage.

0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Would I wouldn't put it again since to be honest,

0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:46.120
<v Speaker 2>Like I mean, I guess you know, Dave Girl has

0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.520
<v Speaker 2>been involved with all sorts of projects that are on

0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.319
<v Speaker 2>the Foo Fighters over the years. Who knows he might

0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:52.400
<v Speaker 2>might be yearning to return to that sound.

0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.040
<v Speaker 4>I've tried to get him to do, Like when we

0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:55.320
<v Speaker 4>were on that tour, I was like, you know, you

0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 4>did that probo record, what about doing one for punk

0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.280
<v Speaker 4>and hardcore? But I don't know if it really lens

0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.880
<v Speaker 4>itself to punkin hardcore, like it seems like, you know,

0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.280
<v Speaker 4>punk is almost about thumbing your nose at someone doing that.

0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:09.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, whereas that I think more embraces it.

0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Is there anybody that you've yet to have on

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.280
<v Speaker 2>the podcast that you are dying to have? Do you

0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.280
<v Speaker 2>have like an almost like a bucket list of people

0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 2>that you really want on who's on it?

0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.240
<v Speaker 4>Oh gosh, it's a huge list. Rick Rubin, you know,

0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 4>I'd love to talk to him about Hose the pre

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:28.520
<v Speaker 4>his like and def Cham was a punk label and

0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:28.880
<v Speaker 4>it started.

0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:30.360
<v Speaker 3>The first two records are punk records.

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 2>This is it. So people will be familiar with Rick

0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Rubin's production work now in this era, because you know,

0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 2>he's out in his Shangri Las studios in Los Angeles, Malibu.

0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:41.840
<v Speaker 2>He's not wearing any shoes on his feet, and he's

0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.880
<v Speaker 2>producing all of these huge records. You know, he's working

0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.280
<v Speaker 2>with Kanye West, you know, and he's working with Smashing Pumpkins,

0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:49.960
<v Speaker 2>and he works like a kind of across the board.

0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.920
<v Speaker 2>But as you just alluded to that, the guy's got

0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:54.240
<v Speaker 2>his roots are in punk rock.

0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.560
<v Speaker 4>At one point he was taking a rubber stamp and

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 4>stamping Hose onto a brown paper bag and sliding his

0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:05.680
<v Speaker 4>seven inch in and calling that packaging that is it's

0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.160
<v Speaker 4>a oh no, sorry, I think it's it's a glue

0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.240
<v Speaker 4>piece of paper. I should he was not rubber stamping.

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:11.560
<v Speaker 4>He was gluing a piece of paper on it. But

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.120
<v Speaker 4>still it is a brown paper bag. That is the

0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 4>sleeve for that and that is that record right there

0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:21.320
<v Speaker 4>in that brown paper bag is the jumping off point

0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 4>for one of the most important record labels to emerge

0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.400
<v Speaker 4>in the eighties. Like everything from Run DMC to Slayer

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.040
<v Speaker 4>you know had at a place on there.

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.160
<v Speaker 2>So so Rick Rubin's one that you.

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:34.320
<v Speaker 3>Right there.

0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:39.480
<v Speaker 4>Elizabeth Hurley, she's talked a lot about growing up loving

0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.880
<v Speaker 4>the Clash and other punk bands and stuff. I would

0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.360
<v Speaker 4>love to talk to her about what she saw because

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 4>I think, like also, she'd be too young to have

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.320
<v Speaker 4>caught a lot of that first wave going to show

0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 4>its Like, no doubt she was a fan of that stuff,

0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:54.400
<v Speaker 4>but I imagine most of those bands were kind of

0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 4>done by the time she was in there, So I'm like, what.

0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:58.120
<v Speaker 3>Bands was she seeing?

0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.640
<v Speaker 4>Like did she see Leather Fait, did she see like

0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.640
<v Speaker 4>Napalm Death? Like what are the bands like in that

0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.200
<v Speaker 4>in middle period? That's the stuff that I'm really fascinated by, like,

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:13.280
<v Speaker 4>you know, And another great one would be Gillian Anderson too,

0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.280
<v Speaker 4>who was a punk model for a time, a New

0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.680
<v Speaker 4>Way punk model, and so I'd love to find out

0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:19.800
<v Speaker 4>what kind of band she liked. And then my, my,

0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.640
<v Speaker 4>my ultimate white whale I think is Josh Brolin, the

0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 4>actor who was the original drummer in rich kinson Elski

0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:28.880
<v Speaker 4>before they became rich Canzonelski.

0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Right were you Are you aware that Ben Stiller was

0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 2>in a post yes that captured tracks right now, you're

0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:37.680
<v Speaker 2>chasing that one.

0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.240
<v Speaker 4>That's uh, the Capital Punishment his name of his band,

0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.280
<v Speaker 4>not to be confused with the German Capital Punishment once again.

0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.120
<v Speaker 4>Like that's another example. Like that was someone that I

0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:46.840
<v Speaker 4>didn't know untill they announced that record, I think.

0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:48.120
<v Speaker 3>Four years ago, three years ago they were trying to

0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:49.120
<v Speaker 3>do it, and all.

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.800
<v Speaker 4>Of a sudden, it was like, oh shit, yeah, the

0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:53.960
<v Speaker 4>guy was flirting with disaster. Of course he was in

0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 4>a punk band. That's why I liked him, That's why identify.

0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:57.960
<v Speaker 3>With that dude.

0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it feels like you'll you'll pocast kind of uncovering

0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 2>all these people that have a punk pass. So we

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.679
<v Speaker 2>weren't even necessarily aware, did you know.

0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:08.439
<v Speaker 3>I think sometimes they're not even aware they did.

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.200
<v Speaker 4>I remember David Cross I called them up because there's

0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 4>this video online of a show in Atlanta. It's Rupe

0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.200
<v Speaker 4>Paul's band we we Poll playing a very early show

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.159
<v Speaker 4>of them playing, and they're being interviewed by like a

0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.159
<v Speaker 4>college TV station in the basement and at one point

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.400
<v Speaker 4>the interviewer turns to the guitar player and he pulls

0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.800
<v Speaker 4>out a cigarette and he's like, oh, are you nervous, and.

0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 3>He goes, of course I'm nervous.

0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:33.480
<v Speaker 4>I'm nervous every time before I play, and he puts

0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.439
<v Speaker 4>a cigaret in his mouth and then someone comes and

0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.840
<v Speaker 4>leans in and lights it and it's David fucking Cross.

0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.200
<v Speaker 4>It's when I saw that video, I was like, my

0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 4>jaw hit the floor. And so I'd seen the video

0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:47.920
<v Speaker 4>a few years ago and then finally one day I just,

0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.120
<v Speaker 4>you know, texted David Cross and I'm like, you got

0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:53.840
<v Speaker 4>to come on my podcast about punk and he's like,

0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 4>I wasn't really in a punk and I'm like send

0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:57.760
<v Speaker 4>them the link to the video. It's like, then explain

0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 4>this to me and he's like, okay, I'll come here,

0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.359
<v Speaker 4>pot look on me. It came on the podcast and

0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 4>it was like by the end of it, he's like,

0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:05.960
<v Speaker 4>you're right, you know, I was totally in a punk rock.

0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.480
<v Speaker 4>It did change my life. It did define a huge

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.760
<v Speaker 4>part of me. But I think there's like an insecurity

0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.280
<v Speaker 4>because punk has been so codified and like what punk

0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.800
<v Speaker 4>is is very much defined in the media as a

0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.919
<v Speaker 4>very specific thing. But when you actually get into it,

0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.440
<v Speaker 4>especially with people that were there at the jump off,

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.600
<v Speaker 4>like you know, when when punk coalesced in, like the

0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.679
<v Speaker 4>late seventies early eighties, it was not one style and

0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:33.719
<v Speaker 4>it was like not one type of dress, like that

0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.000
<v Speaker 4>was something that was put onto it after the fact.

0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:37.920
<v Speaker 4>Like it was all types of bands. And if you

0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 4>listen to the first wave of punk, even the stuff

0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:41.560
<v Speaker 4>coming out of New York, or the stuff coming out

0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.119
<v Speaker 4>of London, or the stuff coming out or all of England.

0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.879
<v Speaker 4>Actually at that time, all those bands sound different. The

0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.160
<v Speaker 4>Buzzcocks saynd nothing like Susie in the band Shees just said,

0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:50.600
<v Speaker 4>nothing like the Clash she said, nothing.

0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:51.320
<v Speaker 3>Like the sex Pistols.

0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.000
<v Speaker 4>Like all those bands yet were punk, you know, And

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.760
<v Speaker 4>then it got even more interesting when the DIY explosion happened.

0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.399
<v Speaker 2>So basically, the longest short of it is that I

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:01.800
<v Speaker 2>aged people go and listen to your podcast because it's

0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is just a mere taster of kind

0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.199
<v Speaker 2>of the depth and the stories that get revealed as

0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.560
<v Speaker 2>part of it, Like these days I should probably fill

0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.879
<v Speaker 2>people in as well. You and I met, we worked

0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.560
<v Speaker 2>out or rather I worked out today that you and

0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.880
<v Speaker 2>I met for the first time almost ten years ago

0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.159
<v Speaker 2>to the day. You were part of Fucked Up at

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.040
<v Speaker 2>that point, and we met up to do a piece,

0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.199
<v Speaker 2>a cover feature for Enemy magazine.

0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.760
<v Speaker 4>I would say it's still one of the most exciting

0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:29.560
<v Speaker 4>things that ever happened to me in my music career.

0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, that's absolutely I'm glad to hear it.

0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.600
<v Speaker 4>Beyond the cover of the Enemy was, you know, and

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.239
<v Speaker 4>obviously now it's print format is gone for it, but

0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.640
<v Speaker 4>like that was a huge deal, Like even in Canada,

0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:43.480
<v Speaker 4>I knew that was a big deal, you know, and

0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:45.679
<v Speaker 4>I would pick up The Enemy as an import, you know,

0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:47.800
<v Speaker 4>because there was better bands covered than a lot of

0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:49.400
<v Speaker 4>the times in the Canadian music press.

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Can I tell you about my recollections of that day.

0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:51.960
<v Speaker 3>Yes.

0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.400
<v Speaker 2>So it was a bank holiday Monday in the UK,

0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 2>which means people were kind of off work and the

0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.600
<v Speaker 2>place was quiet. I traveled up to brad because you

0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:05.440
<v Speaker 2>were playing a kind of infamous club in brad legendary

0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.600
<v Speaker 2>twelve club, that's it. I was sent off to meet

0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.639
<v Speaker 2>this this mysterious band called Fucked Up because at this point,

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, there was no Facebook, there was no Twitter, really,

0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, a decade ago, it was all whispers and

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.119
<v Speaker 2>and rumors and all this kind of stuff was the

0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.320
<v Speaker 2>information that we were getting about the band. So I

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.240
<v Speaker 2>was really excited to meet you all. And I met

0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.600
<v Speaker 2>with you guys, and each member of the band told

0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 2>me a completely different story about how the band formed.

0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Told me that you all hated each other and you

0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't know why you were there, and it was like this.

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:40.520
<v Speaker 2>It was a journalist's absolute dream, because I can remember

0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:42.720
<v Speaker 2>coming away with sort of hours worth of interviews and

0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.360
<v Speaker 2>also just this sort of jig saw of a story

0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:47.399
<v Speaker 2>to tell and for the photos of it. Part of

0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.200
<v Speaker 2>the photos, we were with a photographer called Danny North

0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.880
<v Speaker 2>that day, an amazing photographer, amazing photographer but also one

0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.600
<v Speaker 2>of an incredibly nice guy, and we'd had an idea

0:20:57.640 --> 0:20:59.000
<v Speaker 2>for what we were going to do for the photos,

0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.439
<v Speaker 2>and we went to a supermarket and an independent supermarket

0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:05.159
<v Speaker 2>in Bradford and we were going to take photos of

0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 2>you in the like fizzy pop aisle. Basically I'm not

0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:11.400
<v Speaker 2>sure why where that idea came from.

0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.400
<v Speaker 4>But was I drank so much soda back then? That's right,

0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:16.760
<v Speaker 4>that would take like six liters of soda day.

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:21.000
<v Speaker 2>You had like a bottle of a bottle of fanta.

0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:22.720
<v Speaker 3>I think pepsi.

0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.680
<v Speaker 4>Pepsi was my go to as I'm drinking one right now,

0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:27.879
<v Speaker 4>but that's because I'm exhausted right now.

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 3>Just medicinal reasons only.

0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.159
<v Speaker 2>Okay, we'll come back to the fizzy pop. In a

0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.920
<v Speaker 2>sect we were in Bradford. We we'd ask this this

0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:38.080
<v Speaker 2>kind man who ran this shop whether we could take

0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:40.240
<v Speaker 2>some photos in his shop, and he sort of looked

0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.760
<v Speaker 2>a bit bewildered, but was like, okay, sure, And we

0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:44.560
<v Speaker 2>went back to the back of the shop into the aisle.

0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:47.480
<v Speaker 2>There's nobody there, and Danny took your photo and and

0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.200
<v Speaker 2>and you kind of took a razor blade and cut

0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:53.840
<v Speaker 2>your head open. And so we're bleeding in this independent

0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.800
<v Speaker 2>supermarket on the outskirts of Bradford on a blank holiday Monday,

0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:00.360
<v Speaker 2>and the guy behind it till looks over to see

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.000
<v Speaker 2>what we're up to, and suddenly it's like, what the.

0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 3>Hell you're forgetting it?

0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:06.000
<v Speaker 4>Also, I had a bloody hunk of meat in my

0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:08.359
<v Speaker 4>hand too, that's right, because we couldn't get a heart.

0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:10.080
<v Speaker 3>But it's just like this, it looks like a heart.

0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:11.680
<v Speaker 3>It's like some organ me it might be liver.

0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Did we have some fake blood that we must have

0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:14.280
<v Speaker 2>had some fake.

0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:16.080
<v Speaker 3>I think it's all the real blood.

0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:17.600
<v Speaker 2>Your blood, No, my blood.

0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:19.080
<v Speaker 3>I couldn't bleed. I was so nervous.

0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.720
<v Speaker 4>I barely bled because remember you guys were like, maybe

0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 4>shoul just go the bathroom and pull the blade jobs

0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:24.840
<v Speaker 4>you're not doing in the middle of the thing. And

0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:27.560
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, good call. So one of the bathroom, I

0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:29.160
<v Speaker 4>was like, I can use your bathroom.

0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:29.920
<v Speaker 3>They're like, okay.

0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:31.960
<v Speaker 4>They showed me where the staff bathroom is. They're waiting

0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.680
<v Speaker 4>for me outside. I come out covered in blood.

0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.520
<v Speaker 2>And so Danny took maybe ten frames before we were

0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:40.000
<v Speaker 2>like we need to get out of here. I just

0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:41.960
<v Speaker 2>remember it's rushing out, getting in the car and driving

0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:45.760
<v Speaker 2>back towards the venue, and we were all laughing like

0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:47.399
<v Speaker 2>I like little kids. You know. It was such a

0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:50.760
<v Speaker 2>thrill and went back there and that show is like

0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:54.000
<v Speaker 2>forever imprinted on my mind because you know, I think

0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:57.119
<v Speaker 2>just the energy of the occasion and everything else. And

0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:00.080
<v Speaker 2>had the the Trojan horan.

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.400
<v Speaker 3>Cardboard tropan aboard trojan horse.

0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:04.440
<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's right, And it was just this It

0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 2>was maybe there were maybe a one hundred and fifty

0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:09.200
<v Speaker 2>two hundred people there that night and it was just incredible.

0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:11.800
<v Speaker 2>But that's the first time we met, and that I

0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:14.840
<v Speaker 2>can't believe it's almost well, yeah, almost a decade ago.

0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:18.320
<v Speaker 2>What do you remember from those very kind of early

0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.560
<v Speaker 2>days of taking Fucked Up abroad and kind of like,

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:23.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, the sort of spreading the word about that

0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.360
<v Speaker 2>band because or actually, rather put it in another way,

0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:29.720
<v Speaker 2>when people ask you what Fucked Up is or what

0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:32.840
<v Speaker 2>Fucked Up were when you got together, just explain that

0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:34.840
<v Speaker 2>a bit, you know, because some people won't be entirely

0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:37.119
<v Speaker 2>familiar with the early days. You know, you were a

0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:41.840
<v Speaker 2>bunch of punk kids from Toronto, all played in different bands,

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.399
<v Speaker 2>came together formed Fucked Up. But like, what what was

0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:46.040
<v Speaker 2>the Damien version of events?

0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:49.520
<v Speaker 4>Like we were we were we were all friendly, you know.

0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:52.199
<v Speaker 4>I think Mike and I were the closest friends at

0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:54.679
<v Speaker 4>that point. I wasn't in the band though, when they

0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.040
<v Speaker 4>originally started. I remember Mike coming to me and he said,

0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:00.480
<v Speaker 4>I want to form the most fucked up band part possible,

0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:02.560
<v Speaker 4>and I'm gonna call it Fucked Up And he was

0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:05.240
<v Speaker 4>naming it after the NTA song and he actually had

0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:07.720
<v Speaker 4>written on the wall in our bathroom because we shared

0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:08.280
<v Speaker 4>an apartment.

0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:09.480
<v Speaker 3>Fucked up.

0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:13.040
<v Speaker 4>Also, Sandy lived in that apartment too because her apartment

0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:14.919
<v Speaker 4>was being renovated, and she's like, I need to move

0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:16.880
<v Speaker 4>into your apartment for like a couple of weeks. I'll

0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:18.879
<v Speaker 4>pay you guys rent, and we're like, sure, you can

0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:21.960
<v Speaker 4>live in the living room. About six months later, we're like,

0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.560
<v Speaker 4>you got to get out of this place. Campe still

0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.239
<v Speaker 4>being worked on. We need a living room in our

0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:31.640
<v Speaker 4>apartment eventually, because there was like five other people living there.

0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.280
<v Speaker 4>But so Mike Kid decided to put together the most

0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:37.240
<v Speaker 4>fucked up band possible and just put together.

0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:38.720
<v Speaker 3>Josh was gonna be on vocals.

0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:42.560
<v Speaker 4>They were super influenced by this band from Virginia Beach

0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:45.560
<v Speaker 4>nine years insure its Virginia Beach. Someone's gonna crect me

0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:47.040
<v Speaker 4>and say it's w wasthing DC or something, but that

0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:51.680
<v Speaker 4>general area called No Justice, and the singer of that band, Timmy,

0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:54.080
<v Speaker 4>one of the greatest front people I've ever seen, does

0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:56.280
<v Speaker 4>stuff that I would never be able to do because

0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:00.000
<v Speaker 4>I don't like to necessarily hurt people in the crowd.

0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:01.960
<v Speaker 4>But like when you were at those shows and you

0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:05.439
<v Speaker 4>see him like walking on people's heads all around the venue,

0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:08.920
<v Speaker 4>like running on people's heads, like throwing the drummer's drum

0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:12.320
<v Speaker 4>stuff into the audience, like you know, just like going

0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:16.520
<v Speaker 4>crazy on stage. And so that was Mike and Josh's inspiration.

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 4>They're like, we want to form a band like that.

0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:21.800
<v Speaker 4>So Josh was on vocals, Mike was on guitar, Sandy

0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:24.919
<v Speaker 4>was on bass, Chris Callahan was on drums. Chris Collahan

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:25.680
<v Speaker 4>is the singer in.

0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:27.800
<v Speaker 3>Cursed.

0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:30.200
<v Speaker 4>He's saying and left for dead, he's been in He's

0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:33.240
<v Speaker 4>kind of our legendary local punk guy. And so he

0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:35.439
<v Speaker 4>was playing drums in the band. Of course he had

0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:37.840
<v Speaker 4>other bands, so he couldn't do it. So Jonah was

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:39.800
<v Speaker 4>brought in as the replacement drummer.

0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:40.760
<v Speaker 3>They played I.

0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 4>Think three shows, and it was just like a not

0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:49.080
<v Speaker 4>very tight punk band put nicely. I remember the very

0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:51.800
<v Speaker 4>first show Josh came over. It's in this bar in

0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 4>Toronto called Playing in Kensington. That's no longer there now,

0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:57.200
<v Speaker 4>it's called Thirsty and Miserable. Where I'm watching them. I'm

0:25:57.200 --> 0:25:58.640
<v Speaker 4>in the front row. Josh comes over and just kicks

0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:02.199
<v Speaker 4>me in the nuts and apropos of nothing, and so

0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:04.439
<v Speaker 4>I picked him up and I choke slammed him like

0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:08.520
<v Speaker 4>the Undertaker, like just like full On slammed him down.

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:10.480
<v Speaker 4>At that time, Josh had a bunch of friends that

0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:13.359
<v Speaker 4>didn't really like me, and they really didn't like me.

0:26:13.400 --> 0:26:15.359
<v Speaker 4>After I choked slammed it in the middle of the show.

0:26:16.840 --> 0:26:19.560
<v Speaker 5>He started it. He totally started completely. I was just

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:22.359
<v Speaker 5>like rocking out, supporting my friends. Come over, kicks me

0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:25.160
<v Speaker 5>in the nuts. You want to get crazy, I'll show

0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:28.320
<v Speaker 5>you crazy. So then Josh had to go. Josh went

0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:32.440
<v Speaker 5>away to go around. He was traveling doing some stuff.

0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:35.520
<v Speaker 5>There were two cool shows coming up in Toronto. And

0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:37.320
<v Speaker 5>that's the thing when you start a band. You don't

0:26:37.359 --> 0:26:38.679
<v Speaker 5>start a band because you're like, I want to make

0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:40.480
<v Speaker 5>great art. You start a band because you're like, I

0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:42.800
<v Speaker 5>want to play on cool shows with these other cool

0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 5>bands that I like. And so Mike was like, would

0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:46.600
<v Speaker 5>you like to come and sing.

0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:47.280
<v Speaker 3>For these two shows?

0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:51.080
<v Speaker 4>And I was sure. We did a demo, and the

0:26:51.160 --> 0:26:55.760
<v Speaker 4>demo was preferred over Josh's vocals, and so Josh was

0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:57.600
<v Speaker 4>asked to move to second guitar when he came back

0:26:57.600 --> 0:26:59.240
<v Speaker 4>from the trip, and he had to learn how to

0:26:59.280 --> 0:27:01.440
<v Speaker 4>play guitar, and I became the vocalist.

0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:01.560
<v Speaker 3>At that point.

0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:06.119
<v Speaker 2>An enormous amount has happened in that time two years.

0:27:06.119 --> 0:27:08.040
<v Speaker 3>It's fucking like seventeen years now or.

0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Something, right, right, did you ever imagine that? I mean,

0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, yeah, I'm sure you never did imagine. But

0:27:13.600 --> 0:27:17.080
<v Speaker 2>like the years later you would go on to play

0:27:17.240 --> 0:27:20.399
<v Speaker 2>arena tours. I saw you on arena tour with Arcade Fire.

0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:23.840
<v Speaker 2>You already mentioned it in this podcast. Playing with like

0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:26.000
<v Speaker 2>the likes of Foo Fires. You started a band called

0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:28.280
<v Speaker 2>Fucked Up in Toronto to be the most fucked up

0:27:28.320 --> 0:27:30.320
<v Speaker 2>band you could imagine, and you end up sharing a

0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:34.400
<v Speaker 2>stage with huge megabands like that and doing so much

0:27:34.480 --> 0:27:36.360
<v Speaker 2>stuff in your kind of own right, So, how did

0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:40.159
<v Speaker 2>it did you? I'm just interested in your kind of

0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:42.879
<v Speaker 2>thoughts somewhere it all went and how it went, you know, I.

0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:46.640
<v Speaker 4>Think I think now looking back on it, it kind

0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:51.840
<v Speaker 4>of it kind of broke me mentally, I think a

0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:56.080
<v Speaker 4>little bit, because I knew very it was very defined

0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:58.160
<v Speaker 4>what fucked Up was. Maybe not in the very very beginning,

0:27:58.240 --> 0:28:00.200
<v Speaker 4>but like once you started getting going and once started

0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:02.040
<v Speaker 4>putting out the seven inches, it's like, okay, we know

0:28:02.080 --> 0:28:04.639
<v Speaker 4>what we are and we had this plan that was

0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:07.320
<v Speaker 4>gonna end. We're gonna put this the first LP. It

0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:08.879
<v Speaker 4>was gonna be called Crusades, and there was gonna be

0:28:08.920 --> 0:28:10.920
<v Speaker 4>one called Cascades, and they're gonna be built around the

0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:11.360
<v Speaker 4>same riff.

0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:13.560
<v Speaker 3>This is Mike's idea. I'm not taking credit for these ideas.

0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:15.920
<v Speaker 3>And it was gonna be built around the same riff.

0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:18.160
<v Speaker 4>And then we're gonna put it a seven inch called

0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:20.359
<v Speaker 4>Back to the Womb, and that was gonna be the

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:20.960
<v Speaker 4>end of the band.

0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:23.200
<v Speaker 3>And we were.

0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:26.399
<v Speaker 4>Kind of going towards this plan, you know, and it

0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:29.440
<v Speaker 4>was going really well, Like people liked the band, which

0:28:29.480 --> 0:28:34.439
<v Speaker 4>was amazing. Like having someone sing along to words that

0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:38.480
<v Speaker 4>you wrote is the most gratifying feeling you can have

0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:40.640
<v Speaker 4>as a fan. I think of punk and hardcore music

0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:42.640
<v Speaker 4>because so much of the live experience is based on

0:28:43.160 --> 0:28:45.360
<v Speaker 4>sort of the sharing of the mic, and so to

0:28:45.400 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 4>have someone kind of yell your words back in your face,

0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:51.680
<v Speaker 4>it's just incredible. So I was like, mission accomplished. This

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:53.160
<v Speaker 4>is what I wanted to do. We got it. We

0:28:53.200 --> 0:28:56.160
<v Speaker 4>got strangers that I don't know singing along to our songs.

0:28:56.280 --> 0:28:56.800
<v Speaker 3>We're good.

0:28:57.560 --> 0:28:59.360
<v Speaker 4>And then we met the guys from Jade Tree opening

0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:01.760
<v Speaker 4>for Hertskin in Philadelphia.

0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:03.840
<v Speaker 3>The guys from Jtree came.

0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:06.360
<v Speaker 4>Over and started talking to Darren and he was like,

0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:08.280
<v Speaker 4>I think, you know, I like your band. Would you

0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:11.280
<v Speaker 4>guys want to sign to JD Tree? And all of

0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:15.440
<v Speaker 4>a sudden, it was, well, that's not according to the plan,

0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:17.520
<v Speaker 4>so what are you gonna do? So we kind of

0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:20.200
<v Speaker 4>sat down and came up with a new plan, which

0:29:20.240 --> 0:29:23.360
<v Speaker 4>is like, let's just do whatever makes our lives more

0:29:23.360 --> 0:29:24.400
<v Speaker 4>interesting for a while.

0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:27.680
<v Speaker 2>And that theme has just continued. You managed to I

0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:30.000
<v Speaker 2>mean you mentioned that that that success that kind of

0:29:30.480 --> 0:29:33.120
<v Speaker 2>had an impact, you know, on your kind of mental health.

0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Is that just because you never imagined your life being

0:29:36.480 --> 0:29:39.080
<v Speaker 2>taken in that direction or like it was it dealing

0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:42.040
<v Speaker 2>with the the scale of it, the intensity of it,

0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:44.640
<v Speaker 2>the lifestyle of it, all of those things makes together.

0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:47.480
<v Speaker 4>I think it's all those things. I have an anxiety disorder.

0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:49.520
<v Speaker 4>You know, I've had it my whole life. I recognize

0:29:49.560 --> 0:29:51.840
<v Speaker 4>that now, you know, And I really started getting treated

0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:54.400
<v Speaker 4>for it in my early twenties, which is kind of

0:29:54.400 --> 0:29:56.320
<v Speaker 4>around the time Fucked Up started getting going.

0:29:57.080 --> 0:30:00.040
<v Speaker 3>So I think I didn't really come to terms.

0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:05.480
<v Speaker 4>With how my life was impacted by my thought process

0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:09.760
<v Speaker 4>my anxiety until fairly recently. So a lot of times

0:30:10.760 --> 0:30:14.240
<v Speaker 4>the situations that you're thrust in are the worst possible

0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:16.920
<v Speaker 4>situations to deal with when you have an anxiety disorder,

0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:17.080
<v Speaker 4>you know.

0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:18.560
<v Speaker 3>And it's so I think it.

0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:22.640
<v Speaker 4>Was the travel was getting got to me, just like

0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:25.880
<v Speaker 4>the loss of control, you know. Like I we went

0:30:25.920 --> 0:30:28.840
<v Speaker 4>from being in a band where every city we went to,

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:30.680
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, oh, here's my group of friends. I'm going

0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:33.480
<v Speaker 4>to stay at this friend's house tonight and We're gonna

0:30:33.480 --> 0:30:35.200
<v Speaker 4>all hang out and have fun. And I'm just going

0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:39.240
<v Speaker 4>to like travel around the world basically having slumber parties

0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:40.680
<v Speaker 4>at friend's houses. And then all of a sudden it

0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:42.880
<v Speaker 4>became like, no, no, that's.

0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Kind of a job and it needs to be at

0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:46.240
<v Speaker 2>the arena three.

0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:49.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we never showed up for one of those arcade

0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:52.800
<v Speaker 4>fire shows on time. We were late for every single

0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:53.480
<v Speaker 4>night of the tour.

0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:56.560
<v Speaker 2>I just imagining Wins just like tapping is tapping his watch,

0:30:56.560 --> 0:30:58.560
<v Speaker 2>being that West. We brought these guys on twity and

0:30:58.640 --> 0:30:59.560
<v Speaker 2>even sign up on side. Well.

0:30:59.600 --> 0:31:01.400
<v Speaker 4>The thing was it was routed for a bus and

0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:04.440
<v Speaker 4>weren't a van like trying to catch up to go

0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:06.479
<v Speaker 4>keep out around your Yeah, and it's also like one

0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:09.640
<v Speaker 4>of the coldest winters on record in Europe too, and

0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:12.320
<v Speaker 4>we're like, yeah, we were late. We were load onto

0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:15.080
<v Speaker 4>the stage in front of the full pack stadium. We're

0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:17.080
<v Speaker 4>like wheeling our amps out.

0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:19.600
<v Speaker 3>To the guys. I guess because one second we start playing.

0:31:19.680 --> 0:31:22.520
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like it's still like playing a you know, a

0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:25.840
<v Speaker 4>basement show, but in front of twenty thousand people, thirty

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:26.480
<v Speaker 4>thousand people.

0:31:26.840 --> 0:31:29.240
<v Speaker 3>But it's yeah, I think it was that. It was the.

0:31:31.280 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 4>It was a lot of stuff. It was like not

0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:36.080
<v Speaker 4>you know, not being the cool punk band. All I

0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:38.080
<v Speaker 4>wanted to do was be in the cool punk band,

0:31:38.120 --> 0:31:39.880
<v Speaker 4>Like that was the dream. And then when I was

0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:42.360
<v Speaker 4>in the cool punk band, it's like, all right, let's

0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:45.440
<v Speaker 4>do it. And I have really enjoyed every experience that's

0:31:45.480 --> 0:31:48.360
<v Speaker 4>come to my band since, you know, and I and

0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:51.760
<v Speaker 4>I still enjoy them. But at the same time, it

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:57.240
<v Speaker 4>wasn't what I had prepared for. So when it stopped

0:31:57.240 --> 0:31:59.920
<v Speaker 4>being what I had prepared for, what I had envisioned,

0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:02.280
<v Speaker 4>that's when it was became like, well what is it?

0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 3>Like where are we at?

0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:06.120
<v Speaker 4>And I think that that Enemy cover day was a

0:32:06.240 --> 0:32:09.000
<v Speaker 4>very interesting day, you know, because that was like the

0:32:09.080 --> 0:32:11.520
<v Speaker 4>two was like the fucked up that we were becoming

0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:13.920
<v Speaker 4>kind of colliding head on with the fucked up that

0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:17.760
<v Speaker 4>we were. It was a uh, just once again like

0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:19.800
<v Speaker 4>it's all in my head. You know, I realize that

0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:24.040
<v Speaker 4>now how much of that was in my head? But yeah,

0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:26.160
<v Speaker 4>I think and it changed at the last record, Like

0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:28.800
<v Speaker 4>the last record is what really broke me, like Glass Boys.

0:32:28.840 --> 0:32:32.160
<v Speaker 4>I think after Glass Boys, I was just like, you

0:32:32.200 --> 0:32:35.320
<v Speaker 4>know what we gotta you gotta sit down and rethink.

0:32:35.360 --> 0:32:38.280
<v Speaker 2>This was not just you wanted to take a break,

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:41.480
<v Speaker 2>or you just you needed some time away from it,

0:32:41.640 --> 0:32:43.480
<v Speaker 2>or you needed to be thinking about other things. You

0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:46.200
<v Speaker 2>needed to organize your your your mind a bit different new.

0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:48.600
<v Speaker 4>Or I wrote Glass Boys to be the last fucked

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:50.440
<v Speaker 4>up record that I write, you know, like I wrote

0:32:50.600 --> 0:32:52.320
<v Speaker 4>the songs that I wrote on There were all these

0:32:52.360 --> 0:32:55.360
<v Speaker 4>things that I've been kind of like wrestling with for

0:32:55.560 --> 0:32:59.360
<v Speaker 4>like the last or the proceeding sort of ten years,

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:01.840
<v Speaker 4>and I just kind of laid them out there on

0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:03.600
<v Speaker 4>that record, and I was like, well, I've said it,

0:33:04.040 --> 0:33:07.080
<v Speaker 4>I'm done now. And then so after that record, when

0:33:07.120 --> 0:33:09.120
<v Speaker 4>Mike came to me and he's like, let's do a

0:33:09.120 --> 0:33:11.160
<v Speaker 4>new record, I went down. I tried to write and

0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:13.320
<v Speaker 4>I just couldn't write, you know, I just was not

0:33:14.360 --> 0:33:16.920
<v Speaker 4>in that space, like I really do feel like Class

0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:19.560
<v Speaker 4>Boys was my like that's where I've said what I

0:33:19.600 --> 0:33:22.240
<v Speaker 4>wanted to say, you know. And I wrote some songs

0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:23.680
<v Speaker 4>for it, and there's a couple of songs on B

0:33:23.840 --> 0:33:25.840
<v Speaker 4>sides that I ended up writing after the fact, but

0:33:26.440 --> 0:33:28.200
<v Speaker 4>the stuff that I was writing I wasn't happy with.

0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:32.360
<v Speaker 4>So I was like, I'm sorry, Mike, I don't think

0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:34.400
<v Speaker 4>I can do this right now. I was also working

0:33:34.440 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 4>on a TV show, so I was away a lot

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:38.600
<v Speaker 4>at the time. So I came back one day from

0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:40.400
<v Speaker 4>one of these shoots and Mike's like, I finished the record,

0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:43.040
<v Speaker 4>like I've written all the songs, all the lyrics, and

0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:43.600
<v Speaker 4>I was like.

0:33:43.560 --> 0:33:44.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, how's this gonna go?

0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:48.240
<v Speaker 4>And I went in there and it was a completely

0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:51.680
<v Speaker 4>different experience than any other fucked up recording I'd ever had, where,

0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:54.360
<v Speaker 4>you know, once again, i'd be in my anxiety, I'd

0:33:54.400 --> 0:33:59.080
<v Speaker 4>be arguing with Mike over song placements, over who gets

0:33:59.080 --> 0:34:01.840
<v Speaker 4>to write which song, like all sorts of things, and

0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:03.480
<v Speaker 4>this time I kind of just went in and I'm like,

0:34:04.120 --> 0:34:06.240
<v Speaker 4>let's just ride this wave and see how it turns out.

0:34:06.280 --> 0:34:08.239
<v Speaker 4>And so I didn't argue with Mike on it just

0:34:08.280 --> 0:34:09.680
<v Speaker 4>about anything.

0:34:09.480 --> 0:34:12.200
<v Speaker 2>That is unique for Fucked Up, but unique. Even in

0:34:12.239 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 2>the times that we've seen each other over the years,

0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:18.560
<v Speaker 2>the band has always been very refreshingly honest in the

0:34:18.600 --> 0:34:21.200
<v Speaker 2>sense that you would always admit that there are certainly

0:34:21.280 --> 0:34:24.680
<v Speaker 2>times where you basically can't stand the side of each other,

0:34:24.800 --> 0:34:27.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, where things that tension does build when cause

0:34:27.360 --> 0:34:29.960
<v Speaker 2>you are always living in each other's pockets when you're

0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:31.520
<v Speaker 2>on the road, for example, and when you did that

0:34:31.560 --> 0:34:35.040
<v Speaker 2>for such an intense period of time, things get difficult,

0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:38.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure, but you always admitted to that. It was

0:34:38.280 --> 0:34:40.920
<v Speaker 2>never like you kind of tried to cover up those cracks,

0:34:40.960 --> 0:34:43.400
<v Speaker 2>if you like. It was an admission that they were

0:34:43.440 --> 0:34:45.040
<v Speaker 2>sort of part of what it was that you did.

0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Is that fair to say?

0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:48.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? Absolutely, yeah, and I think we you know, and

0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:50.439
<v Speaker 4>like it. Then it became almost like a marketing thing.

0:34:50.520 --> 0:34:52.319
<v Speaker 4>I was like, Oh, they don't get along as a band.

0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:55.000
<v Speaker 4>I know they're just saying that, but it's true, Like

0:34:55.040 --> 0:35:01.759
<v Speaker 4>I think we are five six very different people, you know,

0:35:01.920 --> 0:35:07.319
<v Speaker 4>like we all wait then Josh, Mike, Sandy Damien, then

0:35:07.440 --> 0:35:08.680
<v Speaker 4>Josh Mike, Sandy Damon.

0:35:08.760 --> 0:35:15.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, five five but but Jonah.

0:35:15.400 --> 0:35:20.240
<v Speaker 4>I forgot Jonah six. I always forget Jonah, the nicest member.

0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:22.399
<v Speaker 2>Hang on, we're here in the UK's play a show

0:35:22.440 --> 0:35:24.360
<v Speaker 2>and it's five of us. Where's the drummer?

0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:27.120
<v Speaker 4>Well, that's why they got those drum machines, you know,

0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:27.759
<v Speaker 4>big Black.

0:35:29.560 --> 0:35:31.919
<v Speaker 2>I feel like that should be part of a kind

0:35:31.920 --> 0:35:35.160
<v Speaker 2>of like a punk you know, satire documentary where he

0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:37.359
<v Speaker 2>left the drummer at the service station and driven onto

0:35:37.360 --> 0:35:40.040
<v Speaker 2>the gig. You know, we're missing somebody here. Who is

0:35:40.080 --> 0:35:41.480
<v Speaker 2>it the drummer?

0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:42.960
<v Speaker 4>They left me at a truck spop. One time in

0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:46.640
<v Speaker 4>Germany we did that. I watched them drive off. I

0:35:46.719 --> 0:35:51.759
<v Speaker 4>was so pissed, like you motherfuckers. I was chasing them

0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:53.080
<v Speaker 4>down the street and then I just gave up, and

0:35:53.120 --> 0:35:54.000
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, well, what are we gonna do?

0:35:54.040 --> 0:35:54.120
<v Speaker 2>This?

0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:57.399
<v Speaker 3>Before no cell phones existed, obviously, but it's before I.

0:35:57.280 --> 0:35:59.440
<v Speaker 4>Had a cell phone, so I'm like, well, I'm trapped

0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:01.440
<v Speaker 4>in this random German town with nothing.

0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:02.400
<v Speaker 2>So what happened?

0:36:02.400 --> 0:36:04.319
<v Speaker 4>Then they eventually realized that I wasn't in the van

0:36:04.400 --> 0:36:07.120
<v Speaker 4>and turned back. But it was a good five minutes.

0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:09.239
<v Speaker 2>Guys, how did you not notice that I was in

0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:09.560
<v Speaker 2>the van?

0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:12.400
<v Speaker 4>Come on, yeah, they're like, Man, it's so quiet, Oz.

0:36:13.360 --> 0:36:14.839
<v Speaker 2>I want to talk about a couple of your other

0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:17.680
<v Speaker 2>great loves. Because we've already talked about the podcast that

0:36:17.719 --> 0:36:20.520
<v Speaker 2>you make. We talked about the band obviously, you and

0:36:20.560 --> 0:36:22.360
<v Speaker 2>I we have spoken before. I've been fortunate enough to

0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:24.319
<v Speaker 2>have to kind of have an insight into your every

0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:27.440
<v Speaker 2>day at home. You live in a family home in

0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:30.560
<v Speaker 2>Toronto with your wife and your three children. You've collected

0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:35.000
<v Speaker 2>an absolutely enormous amount of memorabilia and records and incredibly

0:36:35.000 --> 0:36:37.400
<v Speaker 2>cool stuff over the years. But you've got a vinyl

0:36:37.560 --> 0:36:41.440
<v Speaker 2>record collection of almost ten thousand. You're telling me so,

0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:44.279
<v Speaker 2>like all of your passions exist there at home, But

0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:47.120
<v Speaker 2>there's a couple of things now that, alongside the music,

0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:49.839
<v Speaker 2>you're really passionate about, one of which is wrestling. Yes,

0:36:50.120 --> 0:36:53.080
<v Speaker 2>tell me a little bit about that, Like, you've got

0:36:53.080 --> 0:36:55.160
<v Speaker 2>to treat me as a complete wrestling novice, Like I

0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:57.640
<v Speaker 2>know very little about it. So what was it that

0:36:57.719 --> 0:37:01.960
<v Speaker 2>first attracted you to the theater of wrestling and what

0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:04.160
<v Speaker 2>brought you into your interest in that?

0:37:04.600 --> 0:37:05.839
<v Speaker 3>I think, like, and I.

0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:08.279
<v Speaker 4>Would say, this is just about like almost everyone else

0:37:08.320 --> 0:37:10.840
<v Speaker 4>in the world, because this is truly something that happens

0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:15.120
<v Speaker 4>globally with professional wrestling. As a young person, I was

0:37:15.160 --> 0:37:16.719
<v Speaker 4>taken to and I think it's a lot of young

0:37:16.760 --> 0:37:19.480
<v Speaker 4>people see it, you know, like whatever type of wrestling

0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:21.600
<v Speaker 4>you're exposed to, and it's exciting. You know, it's like

0:37:21.640 --> 0:37:24.759
<v Speaker 4>people fighting, but they're not fighting like when people really fight,

0:37:24.920 --> 0:37:28.480
<v Speaker 4>where it's just sort of upsetting and violent, Like they're

0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:31.439
<v Speaker 4>fighting in a spectacular, entertaining way, and they're doing these

0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:36.960
<v Speaker 4>amazing moves, and there's bright costumes and these sort of eccentric,

0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:40.000
<v Speaker 4>larger than life characters. Like you're seeing real life superheroes.

0:37:40.480 --> 0:37:42.920
<v Speaker 4>And as a young person, you know, you want to

0:37:42.960 --> 0:37:46.840
<v Speaker 4>believe in superheroes, so you're seeing like physical, real people

0:37:47.000 --> 0:37:48.480
<v Speaker 4>are that perform like superheroes.

0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:50.560
<v Speaker 3>Like you see Ray Maisterio in the ring. He looks

0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:51.279
<v Speaker 3>like a superhero.

0:37:51.480 --> 0:37:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Obviously, we've both got experience of speaking to working with

0:37:55.680 --> 0:37:58.080
<v Speaker 2>getting familiar with musicians and artis people that work in

0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:01.120
<v Speaker 2>that area. Is it similar? How different is it that

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:03.680
<v Speaker 2>when you meet you know, sometimes I meet with them

0:38:03.719 --> 0:38:07.160
<v Speaker 2>in bands, they've ever quite clearly defined persona one that's

0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:09.440
<v Speaker 2>on stage and one that's off stage. Is that the

0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:11.480
<v Speaker 2>same for wrestling or is it different?

0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:14.680
<v Speaker 4>It's different it's different, like it's wrestling is like it's

0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:17.080
<v Speaker 4>very similar, like the lifestyle and the world like. And

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:18.799
<v Speaker 4>that's the thing is, I got more as I got

0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:20.720
<v Speaker 4>more and more into punk and more and more into music.

0:38:21.640 --> 0:38:25.600
<v Speaker 4>As I got older, I started leaving wrestling behind, being like, well,

0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:28.879
<v Speaker 4>it's not conducive with what I'm into now. But as

0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:31.759
<v Speaker 4>I kind of got, you know, more aware of it,

0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:33.280
<v Speaker 4>I realized, no, all these guys.

0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:34.080
<v Speaker 3>Are punk rockers too.

0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:36.160
<v Speaker 4>All these people kind of come from the same sort

0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:38.480
<v Speaker 4>of backgrounds, not all of them, but a lot of them,

0:38:38.560 --> 0:38:40.920
<v Speaker 4>especially the newer generation of people. And I started seeing

0:38:40.960 --> 0:38:44.800
<v Speaker 4>like how similar their world of traveling, especially on the

0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:47.720
<v Speaker 4>indie circuit, is to the world of an indie band,

0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:50.120
<v Speaker 4>Like you know, you're traveling from city to city, staying

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:53.920
<v Speaker 4>at people's houses, you know, really connecting with your fans,

0:38:53.920 --> 0:38:56.239
<v Speaker 4>Like your fans are not a huge number of them,

0:38:56.239 --> 0:38:58.520
<v Speaker 4>but the people that are coming you connect to it

0:38:58.640 --> 0:39:01.680
<v Speaker 4>in a very direct way. But I think pro wrestling

0:39:01.800 --> 0:39:04.319
<v Speaker 4>is like punk rock is all about no, you can

0:39:04.360 --> 0:39:07.160
<v Speaker 4>do it too. Yeah, you and the crowd get a guitar,

0:39:07.560 --> 0:39:09.960
<v Speaker 4>be like us, come on stage, do it, do it.

0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:14.560
<v Speaker 4>And wrestling it's like it's it's a secret world, you know,

0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:16.240
<v Speaker 4>and they don't want you to come behind the curtain,

0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:18.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, so it'll be they're friendly, you know, they're

0:39:18.520 --> 0:39:21.239
<v Speaker 4>but like at the same time, like you're a fan

0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:25.640
<v Speaker 4>and they're a wrestler, you know, and there's there's even

0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:28.160
<v Speaker 4>like old wrestling lingo like that you're a mark and

0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:31.839
<v Speaker 4>they're a worker, and you know, marks don't hang out

0:39:31.840 --> 0:39:34.200
<v Speaker 4>with workers and stuff like that has changed because everything's

0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:36.319
<v Speaker 4>kind of changed, but like you still meet wrestlers that

0:39:37.120 --> 0:39:39.040
<v Speaker 4>don't have time for fans, like in a way that

0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:42.920
<v Speaker 4>you know that's different than a musician, you know, like

0:39:42.960 --> 0:39:45.200
<v Speaker 4>everyone has bad days and stuff like that. But there's

0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:48.560
<v Speaker 4>certainly wrestlers that are, you know, very willing to keep

0:39:48.560 --> 0:39:50.279
<v Speaker 4>you out of arm's length. And I think that's because

0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 4>it's it's kind of like magicians, you know, with their secrets,

0:39:55.719 --> 0:39:58.680
<v Speaker 4>and it's also still kind of an outlawt sport, like

0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:02.359
<v Speaker 4>they're still trying to trick the audience into thinking what's

0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:05.440
<v Speaker 4>happening in the ring is different than what is actually

0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:06.160
<v Speaker 4>happening in the ring.

0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:06.400
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:40:06.440 --> 0:40:08.080
<v Speaker 4>It's still it's never I would never use the word

0:40:08.080 --> 0:40:10.319
<v Speaker 4>fake to describe it, because it's very real. No matter

0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:12.959
<v Speaker 4>what they do to each other, they are getting hurt.

0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:16.000
<v Speaker 4>Like having now taken a couple of these bumps, even

0:40:16.040 --> 0:40:20.040
<v Speaker 4>the most minor thing in the ring can really fucking hurt.

0:40:20.160 --> 0:40:22.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean you mentioned already you've made TV

0:40:22.960 --> 0:40:26.239
<v Speaker 2>series about wrestling. Yeah, you know, you make You've been

0:40:26.239 --> 0:40:28.239
<v Speaker 2>involved with podcasts and stuff before and in wrestling.

0:40:28.000 --> 0:40:28.319
<v Speaker 5>Is that right?

0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:31.799
<v Speaker 4>I've wrestling podcast and then I did, like you're I

0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:35.919
<v Speaker 4>started making cannabis documentaries for Vice about five years ago,

0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:39.000
<v Speaker 4>and the whole time I was like, there's this deathmatch

0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:42.600
<v Speaker 4>wrestling tournament that happens in Delaware, and deathmatch wrestling is

0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:48.040
<v Speaker 4>the most maligned, misunderstood sub genre of wrestling. Like, you know,

0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:51.040
<v Speaker 4>I guess you could liken it to like rock music,

0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:54.000
<v Speaker 4>classic rock, and then over here you've got like grindcore

0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:56.279
<v Speaker 4>or something that like the classic rock guys would be

0:40:56.360 --> 0:40:58.040
<v Speaker 4>like why would you ever want to hear that noise?

0:40:58.160 --> 0:41:01.040
<v Speaker 4>You know, and a lot of the you know, mainstream

0:41:01.040 --> 0:41:02.560
<v Speaker 4>pro wrestlers like why would you ever want to be

0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:05.279
<v Speaker 4>involved in that garbage wrestling? But what it is, it's

0:41:05.320 --> 0:41:08.440
<v Speaker 4>pro wrestling, so it's still people working together in the

0:41:08.520 --> 0:41:10.480
<v Speaker 4>ring to kind of trick the audience into thinking what

0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:12.560
<v Speaker 4>they're seeing is different than what they're actually seeing. But

0:41:12.600 --> 0:41:15.960
<v Speaker 4>they actually use weapons on each other, and you can't,

0:41:16.239 --> 0:41:17.240
<v Speaker 4>you know, trick.

0:41:17.040 --> 0:41:18.640
<v Speaker 3>The audience with a weapon.

0:41:18.719 --> 0:41:20.560
<v Speaker 4>You have to kind of use the weapon, like so

0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:22.360
<v Speaker 4>you're not going to kill the person with the weapon,

0:41:22.400 --> 0:41:24.600
<v Speaker 4>like I'm sure you could, but you are going to

0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:27.360
<v Speaker 4>make them bleed and probably need stitches. So it's weapons

0:41:27.440 --> 0:41:31.400
<v Speaker 4>like barbed wire, light bulb tubes, fire, thumb tacks, a

0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:35.480
<v Speaker 4>lot of thumb tacks, kenzon, which is used for flower arrangements.

0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:39.560
<v Speaker 4>In this wrestler Jeff Cannonball, straightedged vegan, hardcore kid, had

0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:41.200
<v Speaker 4>one hammered into his head and it.

0:41:41.200 --> 0:41:43.239
<v Speaker 3>Took like eight people to take it out afterwards.

0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:46.120
<v Speaker 4>So I knew I wanted to make a documentary about

0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:48.160
<v Speaker 4>this thing, and VICE was like, I don't think anyone's

0:41:48.200 --> 0:41:51.800
<v Speaker 4>gonna care about wrestling. So I tried for four years

0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:53.279
<v Speaker 4>and then finally they were like, Okay, here's a little

0:41:53.280 --> 0:41:54.359
<v Speaker 4>bit of money, go make your show.

0:41:55.120 --> 0:41:56.480
<v Speaker 3>Go go make this movie.

0:41:57.360 --> 0:41:59.600
<v Speaker 4>So I made the movie with this director, Shannie Cohen,

0:42:00.040 --> 0:42:02.759
<v Speaker 4>amazing director. Came back and it did really well, and

0:42:02.760 --> 0:42:04.000
<v Speaker 4>then they were like, okay, what would a.

0:42:04.000 --> 0:42:04.880
<v Speaker 3>TV show look like?

0:42:05.040 --> 0:42:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Right?

0:42:05.280 --> 0:42:06.920
<v Speaker 3>Right? So we started working on the TV.

0:42:06.760 --> 0:42:10.239
<v Speaker 2>Show, So of the way you just described it there

0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:12.560
<v Speaker 2>makes me understand it a bit more now. It isn't

0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:17.279
<v Speaker 2>hugely miles away from comparisons to rock musical, punk rock

0:42:17.320 --> 0:42:19.040
<v Speaker 2>music in the sense that there's like this kind of

0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:22.920
<v Speaker 2>one overriding name that it's given wrestling, punk rock, whatever.

0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:24.319
<v Speaker 2>But then you have all your kind of like sub

0:42:24.360 --> 0:42:27.000
<v Speaker 2>genres and your different communities that exist in different places,

0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:29.680
<v Speaker 2>and they're all a different twist, a different spin on it.

0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:32.560
<v Speaker 2>And obviously you've got your characters that have been involved

0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:34.280
<v Speaker 2>in it from over the years, so you've got your legends,

0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:36.359
<v Speaker 2>and you've got your emerging newcomers and all that kind

0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:39.440
<v Speaker 2>of stuff. The storylines aren't all that different, are they

0:42:39.480 --> 0:42:40.320
<v Speaker 2>from anything else?

0:42:40.440 --> 0:42:42.520
<v Speaker 4>No, And I think it's actually the storylines that happen

0:42:43.480 --> 0:42:47.719
<v Speaker 4>outside of wrestling are are probably more relevant now than.

0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:49.760
<v Speaker 3>They've ever been. Like you look at America. The President

0:42:49.760 --> 0:42:49.880
<v Speaker 3>of the.

0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:52.400
<v Speaker 4>United States is in the WWE Hall of Fame.

0:42:53.160 --> 0:42:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And I saw today that Cain, who might be

0:42:56.719 --> 0:42:59.960
<v Speaker 2>a name people recognize from from Wrestling of Wrestling Fame.

0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:02.200
<v Speaker 4>If you don't remember Kane, just think of him as

0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:03.240
<v Speaker 4>the Undertaker's brother.

0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.399
<v Speaker 2>That's right. He's just become mayor of Tennessee, is.

0:43:06.320 --> 0:43:08.800
<v Speaker 4>That right, A mayor of Knoxville, Mayor of Knoxville.

0:43:08.840 --> 0:43:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So, and that's.

0:43:10.600 --> 0:43:13.240
<v Speaker 4>Happened before Oneita in Japan, he was in the diet

0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:18.279
<v Speaker 4>Antonio Noki was in politics over there. There's certainly in

0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:20.319
<v Speaker 4>all over the world there's been wrestlers that have kind

0:43:20.360 --> 0:43:21.040
<v Speaker 4>of crossed over.

0:43:22.000 --> 0:43:24.760
<v Speaker 3>And I think it's because in wrestling, there's this term called.

0:43:24.680 --> 0:43:28.799
<v Speaker 4>K fabe, and it's the idea of what wrestling is,

0:43:29.080 --> 0:43:31.520
<v Speaker 4>you know, and it's the idea that like it's hard

0:43:31.560 --> 0:43:35.080
<v Speaker 4>to explain, but I guess it's like to simplify.

0:43:35.080 --> 0:43:36.319
<v Speaker 3>It's the idea.

0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:41.640
<v Speaker 4>That the wrestling world might not be reality, but it's

0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:44.200
<v Speaker 4>presented to the audience as reality, and you're not going

0:43:44.280 --> 0:43:47.120
<v Speaker 4>to admit that it's not not reality. And that's kind

0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:49.719
<v Speaker 4>of the exact same thing that happens in politics, you know,

0:43:50.120 --> 0:43:53.759
<v Speaker 4>like we all know, like even his supporters must know

0:43:53.800 --> 0:43:57.759
<v Speaker 4>deep down that he's lying and he's fake, but at

0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:01.400
<v Speaker 4>the same time, you just make yourself back leave. And

0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:03.959
<v Speaker 4>there's also this whole line of thought that Donald Trump,

0:44:03.960 --> 0:44:06.520
<v Speaker 4>if you look at Donald Trump prior to his run

0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:10.399
<v Speaker 4>in WrestleMania, a few years ago, he was really a

0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:15.440
<v Speaker 4>star and a celebrity of a very different population than

0:44:15.600 --> 0:44:17.480
<v Speaker 4>makes up his base. You know, if you look at

0:44:17.480 --> 0:44:20.120
<v Speaker 4>the demographics that watched The Apprentice, it was incredibly diverse,

0:44:20.880 --> 0:44:24.600
<v Speaker 4>generally progressive audience was watching The Apprentice. He was you know,

0:44:24.760 --> 0:44:27.560
<v Speaker 4>mocked but written up in Spy Magazine, which certainly wasn't

0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:29.960
<v Speaker 4>a magazine that was read by a lot of people

0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:31.240
<v Speaker 4>in more red.

0:44:31.080 --> 0:44:32.400
<v Speaker 3>States at the time.

0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:34.960
<v Speaker 4>But then when he went on WrestleMania, that's when he

0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:36.920
<v Speaker 4>met his bass And that's also when he learned how

0:44:36.960 --> 0:44:38.440
<v Speaker 4>to cut a promo, It's when he learned how to

0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:39.600
<v Speaker 4>deal with the hostile crowd.

0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:41.879
<v Speaker 3>It's when he he learned and.

0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:43.279
<v Speaker 4>You know, I talked to friends that were writing for

0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:46.359
<v Speaker 4>ww back then and working with him when he was there,

0:44:46.360 --> 0:44:49.920
<v Speaker 4>and they were saying he was quiet, very respectful and

0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:51.560
<v Speaker 4>just listening interesting.

0:44:51.640 --> 0:44:53.520
<v Speaker 2>So he kind of schooled himself in some of those

0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:56.840
<v Speaker 2>skills that he's gone on to use to become president.

0:44:57.000 --> 0:45:00.480
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, And it's and it's amazing how with wrestling, like

0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:02.879
<v Speaker 4>it goes further too. Like if you think about the WWE,

0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:05.640
<v Speaker 4>which is WWF, which is where we all kind of

0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:07.560
<v Speaker 4>in you know.

0:45:07.560 --> 0:45:11.520
<v Speaker 3>America, it's the thing. It's the McDonald's, you know.

0:45:11.600 --> 0:45:16.640
<v Speaker 4>But like McDonald's, they make one style of food. However,

0:45:17.040 --> 0:45:20.680
<v Speaker 4>wrestling is you know, not always McDonald's. There's all different

0:45:20.680 --> 0:45:22.560
<v Speaker 4>types of hamburgers out there. There's burgers that are made

0:45:22.560 --> 0:45:25.399
<v Speaker 4>with tofu, there's burgers that are made with chicken. There's

0:45:25.400 --> 0:45:27.759
<v Speaker 4>all different types of hamburgers out there. And I think

0:45:27.760 --> 0:45:29.560
<v Speaker 4>that's the thing, is like when you go out there

0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:32.040
<v Speaker 4>and you realize, oh, there's all these different types of hamburgers,

0:45:32.360 --> 0:45:36.759
<v Speaker 4>and like kind of just corporations do they take over,

0:45:36.960 --> 0:45:40.400
<v Speaker 4>you know, Like so like Starbucks does this with coffee,

0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:43.720
<v Speaker 4>ww has done it with wrestling. So it's not coffee anymore.

0:45:43.719 --> 0:45:46.040
<v Speaker 4>It's Starbucks, you know, and it's not wrestling anymore.

0:45:46.080 --> 0:45:48.879
<v Speaker 3>It's WWE. And of one of the.

0:45:48.960 --> 0:45:51.120
<v Speaker 4>Side effects of doing that are probably actually not even

0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:53.600
<v Speaker 4>a side effect, when one of the sort of main

0:45:54.040 --> 0:45:57.759
<v Speaker 4>components in making that happen is to wipe out traditional

0:45:57.760 --> 0:45:59.320
<v Speaker 4>forms of wrestling that exists. Like you see it in

0:45:59.360 --> 0:46:02.080
<v Speaker 4>the UK in the eighties when the WWE came over

0:46:02.160 --> 0:46:04.479
<v Speaker 4>and they ran Wembley and they had that huge show

0:46:04.480 --> 0:46:08.600
<v Speaker 4>and wrestling became very popular here. It annihilated world of sport.

0:46:08.719 --> 0:46:11.399
<v Speaker 4>It annihilated British wrestling, which had been something that had

0:46:11.440 --> 0:46:16.080
<v Speaker 4>a huge tradition that goes back centuries decades at least,

0:46:16.400 --> 0:46:18.840
<v Speaker 4>and now it's finally coming back again. But like once again,

0:46:19.000 --> 0:46:20.919
<v Speaker 4>it's amazing to kind of much it.

0:46:20.920 --> 0:46:22.520
<v Speaker 3>It kind of, I don't know.

0:46:22.840 --> 0:46:25.879
<v Speaker 4>Mirrors the reality of the real world when you look

0:46:25.880 --> 0:46:26.440
<v Speaker 4>at wrestling.

0:46:26.719 --> 0:46:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, certainly does when you kind of think of it,

0:46:29.160 --> 0:46:32.319
<v Speaker 2>like yeah, in those terms now, and just the very

0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:37.040
<v Speaker 2>real consequences of Donald Trump going from that to being

0:46:37.080 --> 0:46:39.359
<v Speaker 2>in the Whitehouse. The final thing I kind of wanted

0:46:39.320 --> 0:46:41.600
<v Speaker 2>to talk to you a little bit about was you

0:46:41.719 --> 0:46:46.520
<v Speaker 2>mentioned that along with wrestling, you've also made documentaries about cannabis.

0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:48.200
<v Speaker 3>Because and you guys just got medical cannabis here.

0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:50.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, this is the thing. So this is quite a

0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:54.000
<v Speaker 2>timely thing to ask you about. So you've been talking

0:46:54.000 --> 0:46:56.439
<v Speaker 2>about this subject for what kind of five, six, seven,

0:46:56.480 --> 0:46:57.439
<v Speaker 2>eight years or a long time.

0:46:57.440 --> 0:46:58.520
<v Speaker 3>It's been eight years now.

0:46:59.440 --> 0:47:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Cool, because Canada has very much been one of those

0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:05.200
<v Speaker 2>countries where the debate has been going for quite a while.

0:47:05.239 --> 0:47:07.440
<v Speaker 2>There's been some you know, recent movement in that. So

0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:11.960
<v Speaker 2>there was the medicinal use of cannabis was brought in

0:47:12.040 --> 0:47:16.160
<v Speaker 2>and then recently followed by the recreational legalization.

0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:16.920
<v Speaker 3>Coming October seventeenth.

0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:20.120
<v Speaker 2>October seventeenth, Okay, so talk to me a little bit

0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:22.839
<v Speaker 2>about the journey that and the debate that's been had

0:47:22.960 --> 0:47:26.120
<v Speaker 2>around that in Canada, and then I'm interested to know

0:47:26.200 --> 0:47:29.520
<v Speaker 2>what you think, Yeah, what you think the positive consequences

0:47:29.520 --> 0:47:33.320
<v Speaker 2>of that has been so far, and what why presumably

0:47:33.360 --> 0:47:35.960
<v Speaker 2>you're kind of all for it and you know why

0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:37.040
<v Speaker 2>you think it would be a good thing for the

0:47:37.160 --> 0:47:37.680
<v Speaker 2>UK to do.

0:47:39.200 --> 0:47:41.239
<v Speaker 4>It's a long This is definitely an area that I'm

0:47:41.280 --> 0:47:43.799
<v Speaker 4>obsessed with as well, so I can ramble forever for it. Well,

0:47:43.800 --> 0:47:47.080
<v Speaker 4>I think I'm not in favor of legalization as it's

0:47:47.520 --> 0:47:48.600
<v Speaker 4>being presented right now.

0:47:48.680 --> 0:47:49.000
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

0:47:49.719 --> 0:47:51.239
<v Speaker 4>If you look at some of the regulations that are

0:47:51.280 --> 0:47:53.520
<v Speaker 4>coming out about how cannabis is going to be handled

0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:58.000
<v Speaker 4>under regulation under legalization, I mean there's some really frightening

0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:00.400
<v Speaker 4>things in there. You can't be stoned in public, like

0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:04.480
<v Speaker 4>public drug kenness is a crime. Public high intoxication is

0:48:04.520 --> 0:48:07.560
<v Speaker 4>going to be a crime, even though being high on

0:48:07.600 --> 0:48:10.000
<v Speaker 4>cannabis is nothing like being drunk an alcohol. But they

0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:13.399
<v Speaker 4>have now made this sort of equivalency, so they also

0:48:13.480 --> 0:48:16.200
<v Speaker 4>have made it illegal and punishable up to fourteen years

0:48:16.239 --> 0:48:19.040
<v Speaker 4>in prison if you're caught with cannabis. That's not government

0:48:19.040 --> 0:48:23.200
<v Speaker 4>approve cannabis which they're making money on. Also, like let's

0:48:23.200 --> 0:48:25.520
<v Speaker 4>say if you gave a child a drink. If you

0:48:25.560 --> 0:48:28.520
<v Speaker 4>gave your own child a beer, your teenage child in Canada,

0:48:28.880 --> 0:48:32.360
<v Speaker 4>that's not a crime. If I gave my child's friend

0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:34.880
<v Speaker 4>a beer, that would be a five hundred dollars fine.

0:48:35.400 --> 0:48:37.839
<v Speaker 4>If I gave my child cannabis, which I would never

0:48:37.880 --> 0:48:40.880
<v Speaker 4>ever do, But if someone did give a child cannabis,

0:48:40.880 --> 0:48:43.360
<v Speaker 4>it's fourteen years in prison. The police are going to

0:48:43.440 --> 0:48:45.919
<v Speaker 4>still have all the same tools that they have under

0:48:46.040 --> 0:48:49.400
<v Speaker 4>prohibition criminalization, but they're also going to be able to

0:48:49.440 --> 0:48:51.960
<v Speaker 4>generate a little bit of revenue off of this cannabis. Now,

0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:55.200
<v Speaker 4>they're still going to be able to bust people at nauseam.

0:48:55.520 --> 0:48:58.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, So it is the most kind of simplified

0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:01.440
<v Speaker 2>way of looking at it. That like the medicinal ways

0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:05.759
<v Speaker 2>that cannabase has been introduced in Canada, there have been

0:49:06.239 --> 0:49:08.520
<v Speaker 2>positive consequences from that. Do we obviously getting to point

0:49:08.520 --> 0:49:10.359
<v Speaker 2>where they're about to legalize it, But as you say,

0:49:10.400 --> 0:49:14.520
<v Speaker 2>there's a whole nother huge more around that to kind

0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:16.960
<v Speaker 2>of unravel to see if it's actually gonna work. What's

0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:18.080
<v Speaker 2>your kind of view generally on.

0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:20.719
<v Speaker 4>Our medical program actually was never that great in Canada.

0:49:20.800 --> 0:49:24.520
<v Speaker 4>Like America, because of the state sort of freedoms that

0:49:24.520 --> 0:49:28.000
<v Speaker 4>they're given, they've developed a lot more evolved medical programs,

0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:32.640
<v Speaker 4>especially Colorado, California, Washington State prior to legalization, so they

0:49:32.680 --> 0:49:35.600
<v Speaker 4>already had like little industries set up. In Canada, the

0:49:35.640 --> 0:49:38.200
<v Speaker 4>government has always been like, we don't really want to

0:49:38.200 --> 0:49:39.640
<v Speaker 4>have to deal with this problem. There's been a lot

0:49:39.680 --> 0:49:42.120
<v Speaker 4>of efforts to legalize cannabis in Canada over the years.

0:49:43.080 --> 0:49:45.800
<v Speaker 4>It's always kind of stalled out. Just before it happened,

0:49:46.480 --> 0:49:49.520
<v Speaker 4>the medical program kind of just developed on its own,

0:49:49.880 --> 0:49:52.880
<v Speaker 4>you know. There was the government made provisions to allow

0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:56.880
<v Speaker 4>people to have access to medical cannabis. People then decided

0:49:56.920 --> 0:49:59.520
<v Speaker 4>to start setting up dispensaries to sell medical cannabis because

0:49:59.520 --> 0:50:02.000
<v Speaker 4>it was really hard to get into the government medical program,

0:50:02.400 --> 0:50:04.800
<v Speaker 4>and they would sell to people that weren't in the program.

0:50:04.880 --> 0:50:07.400
<v Speaker 4>They would sell to people that were referred to them.

0:50:07.920 --> 0:50:11.480
<v Speaker 4>These dispensaries begat another wave of dispensaries.

0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:13.640
<v Speaker 3>Mainly in British Columbia and Vancouver that were.

0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:17.120
<v Speaker 4>A little more lenient with how much checks they were

0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:19.720
<v Speaker 4>doing into whether or not someone you know had doctor

0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:23.279
<v Speaker 4>approval for medical cannabis. And then there was another wave

0:50:23.320 --> 0:50:25.239
<v Speaker 4>of dispensaries that kind of came after that was just

0:50:25.280 --> 0:50:27.839
<v Speaker 4>which was just giving cannabis to anyone over the age

0:50:27.880 --> 0:50:30.400
<v Speaker 4>of nineteen that brought an idea and was able to

0:50:30.440 --> 0:50:32.920
<v Speaker 4>buy it. Those were all illegal and the government has

0:50:32.960 --> 0:50:35.960
<v Speaker 4>shut down all of them, or tried to shut down

0:50:35.960 --> 0:50:37.600
<v Speaker 4>all of them, I should say, over the years, but

0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:40.279
<v Speaker 4>they keep popping up, you know, even right now, they

0:50:40.360 --> 0:50:43.799
<v Speaker 4>keep popping up. Medical cannabis changed my life. Like I'm

0:50:43.800 --> 0:50:46.879
<v Speaker 4>a huge proponent for medical cannabis, you know, people having

0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:47.800
<v Speaker 4>access to cannabis.

0:50:47.800 --> 0:50:48.200
<v Speaker 3>Period.

0:50:49.160 --> 0:50:51.279
<v Speaker 4>I didn't get it through the medical program. Originally, my

0:50:51.320 --> 0:50:54.120
<v Speaker 4>doctor actually refused to sign a medical form. It was

0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:56.800
<v Speaker 4>only when I started losing weight when I she agreed

0:50:56.840 --> 0:50:58.840
<v Speaker 4>to sign me in to the program. I lost one

0:50:58.920 --> 0:51:01.759
<v Speaker 4>hundred and fifty pounds since I are smoking weed. And

0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:04.239
<v Speaker 4>you know, I don't think it's going to work like

0:51:04.280 --> 0:51:06.160
<v Speaker 4>that for everybody. I don't think it's necessarily going to

0:51:06.239 --> 0:51:08.799
<v Speaker 4>cure everyone's anxiety. It hasn't even cured my anxiety. It

0:51:08.800 --> 0:51:12.040
<v Speaker 4>helps me treat it, But the fact that it is

0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:16.200
<v Speaker 4>going to have that impact on some people I think

0:51:16.280 --> 0:51:18.319
<v Speaker 4>is reason enough to kind of investigate it and to

0:51:18.360 --> 0:51:20.960
<v Speaker 4>allow greater access to it. And also the fact is

0:51:21.320 --> 0:51:23.719
<v Speaker 4>it's no one's ever died on it, Like, no one

0:51:23.800 --> 0:51:26.680
<v Speaker 4>has ever died from cannabis, but like there are probably

0:51:26.719 --> 0:51:29.640
<v Speaker 4>gonna be a few deaths tonight involving alcohol, and definitely

0:51:29.640 --> 0:51:32.440
<v Speaker 4>gonna be a lot of death involving prescription drugs, you know,

0:51:32.480 --> 0:51:34.239
<v Speaker 4>And so if we can get people to kind of

0:51:34.920 --> 0:51:37.480
<v Speaker 4>choose cannabis over those other things, you know, I don't

0:51:37.520 --> 0:51:38.359
<v Speaker 4>think that's a bad thing.

0:51:39.080 --> 0:51:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Like you pointed out, the UK is it's a debate

0:51:41.800 --> 0:51:43.960
<v Speaker 2>that's been having, you know, being how it kind of

0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:47.480
<v Speaker 2>right now happened before the summer recess of Parliament around

0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:51.080
<v Speaker 2>the introduction of medical cannabis the usage of it. So

0:51:51.200 --> 0:51:53.920
<v Speaker 2>as far as you're concerned, you've seen it work, you've

0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:56.560
<v Speaker 2>experienced the benefits of that anything, that's something that should

0:51:56.560 --> 0:51:57.840
<v Speaker 2>definitely be encouraged.

0:51:57.960 --> 0:52:00.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think so, Like, once again, it's not can

0:52:00.239 --> 0:52:03.759
<v Speaker 4>have the same effect on everybody, but once again, like

0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:06.520
<v Speaker 4>there's tons of things that we have access to that

0:52:06.560 --> 0:52:09.239
<v Speaker 4>I think are far more deadly, you know, I think

0:52:09.280 --> 0:52:13.479
<v Speaker 4>there's certainly, you know, weapons, you know, not so much

0:52:13.640 --> 0:52:16.040
<v Speaker 4>obviously in Canada and in the UK, but in America

0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:20.840
<v Speaker 4>you can get access to weapons fairly easily. Prescription drugs,

0:52:20.880 --> 0:52:22.239
<v Speaker 4>you know, and the amount of time that have got

0:52:22.239 --> 0:52:24.560
<v Speaker 4>my doctor to signed me over to medical cannabis. I

0:52:24.600 --> 0:52:26.759
<v Speaker 4>was offered maybe five other prescriptions that I could have

0:52:26.800 --> 0:52:30.640
<v Speaker 4>gone on instead. There you know, soda, The amount of

0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:32.719
<v Speaker 4>sugar that I'm consuming in the soda pop right now,

0:52:32.719 --> 0:52:35.640
<v Speaker 4>I'm sure is doing way less good for me than

0:52:35.680 --> 0:52:39.759
<v Speaker 4>a joint would be doing right now. So it's yeah,

0:52:39.760 --> 0:52:42.640
<v Speaker 4>I definitely see there's I see cannabis is having a

0:52:42.640 --> 0:52:45.040
<v Speaker 4>lot of benefits. I just think that one of the

0:52:45.760 --> 0:52:48.200
<v Speaker 4>scary thing that scary things that is kind of happening

0:52:48.280 --> 0:52:52.960
<v Speaker 4>under legalization is, you know, there's a group of people

0:52:53.840 --> 0:52:56.560
<v Speaker 4>that want to take cannabis away and take the revenue

0:52:56.600 --> 0:52:59.160
<v Speaker 4>away from this other group of people. And like, certainly

0:52:59.200 --> 0:53:01.279
<v Speaker 4>there are criminals in this other group of people, but

0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:04.560
<v Speaker 4>there are also just people that love cannabis and have

0:53:04.760 --> 0:53:08.800
<v Speaker 4>sacrificed their freedom to to you know, be an advocate

0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:12.000
<v Speaker 4>for this plant, or have sacrificed their lives. In some cases,

0:53:12.040 --> 0:53:15.560
<v Speaker 4>people have died for the fact that this plan is

0:53:15.600 --> 0:53:18.160
<v Speaker 4>illegal and to have this industry ripped away from them

0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:20.080
<v Speaker 4>and then just given to the same rich white guys

0:53:20.080 --> 0:53:22.440
<v Speaker 4>that own everything else in Canada, that I kind of

0:53:22.440 --> 0:53:23.200
<v Speaker 4>find a bum out.

0:53:23.400 --> 0:53:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and my final question because I'm going to let

0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:29.560
<v Speaker 2>you play a show with Fucked.

0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:32.319
<v Speaker 4>Up and this is the first time in like, oh,

0:53:32.360 --> 0:53:33.960
<v Speaker 4>I guess we played the subway not too long we

0:53:33.960 --> 0:53:35.680
<v Speaker 4>played a subway show, but I was gonna say, it's

0:53:35.680 --> 0:53:37.600
<v Speaker 4>the first time in like like over a year.

0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:39.839
<v Speaker 2>Really, so this is the this is like getting back

0:53:39.880 --> 0:53:40.480
<v Speaker 2>into the saddle.

0:53:40.480 --> 0:53:40.640
<v Speaker 3>Then.

0:53:40.719 --> 0:53:42.919
<v Speaker 4>Really, yeah, we played We've played a show on the

0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:47.040
<v Speaker 4>like a subway platform a few months ago, but yeah,

0:53:47.120 --> 0:53:48.480
<v Speaker 4>like as far as a real show, this is our

0:53:48.480 --> 0:53:49.759
<v Speaker 4>first reel show and over a year.

0:53:50.160 --> 0:53:51.080
<v Speaker 2>How you feeling about it?

0:53:51.560 --> 0:53:51.840
<v Speaker 3>Good?

0:53:51.920 --> 0:53:56.960
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's it's definitely not. Actually it's a little nervous,

0:53:57.760 --> 0:54:01.239
<v Speaker 4>you know. It's it's weird to be doing something so

0:54:01.480 --> 0:54:03.920
<v Speaker 4>much for so long and then to take an extended

0:54:03.960 --> 0:54:07.120
<v Speaker 4>break from it and then to kind of get back

0:54:07.160 --> 0:54:09.920
<v Speaker 4>into it. So yeah, it's really different. I also, like

0:54:10.600 --> 0:54:13.520
<v Speaker 4>I find live shows in general, like I've I kind of.

0:54:15.360 --> 0:54:17.000
<v Speaker 3>I kind of you know, as.

0:54:16.840 --> 0:54:19.719
<v Speaker 4>I get older, you know, you treat them differently, you know,

0:54:19.800 --> 0:54:21.560
<v Speaker 4>Like before I'd go out there and I'd just be like,

0:54:21.560 --> 0:54:24.080
<v Speaker 4>whatever the fuck happens, happens, and you know, that's the show.

0:54:24.560 --> 0:54:25.839
<v Speaker 4>And now I kind of want to go out there

0:54:25.840 --> 0:54:28.759
<v Speaker 4>and make sure that there's there's a show too, right,

0:54:28.880 --> 0:54:31.280
<v Speaker 4>Like I don't want to be just throwing that microphone

0:54:31.280 --> 0:54:32.759
<v Speaker 4>around till I break it and then I won't be

0:54:32.800 --> 0:54:34.600
<v Speaker 4>able to sing into a microphone for less for the

0:54:34.600 --> 0:54:36.720
<v Speaker 4>rest of the evening. Yeah, So there's like I find

0:54:37.200 --> 0:54:39.920
<v Speaker 4>changes in the pressures that you experience as a lead

0:54:39.960 --> 0:54:41.640
<v Speaker 4>singer too as time goes on.

0:54:42.200 --> 0:54:43.920
<v Speaker 3>Also, I got beaten up on stage a couple of

0:54:43.960 --> 0:54:46.720
<v Speaker 3>years ago. It at Sound.

0:54:47.360 --> 0:54:50.480
<v Speaker 4>Liverpool, Sound Sound Safe, Sound City in Liverpool.

0:54:50.520 --> 0:54:52.280
<v Speaker 3>Okay, what happen that we're playing?

0:54:52.680 --> 0:54:54.799
<v Speaker 4>We're playing on stage and I saw this group of

0:54:54.920 --> 0:54:58.560
<v Speaker 4>guys that I would describe as being somewhat chavvy from

0:54:58.560 --> 0:55:01.000
<v Speaker 4>what I've been told what a chavel looks like, and

0:55:01.040 --> 0:55:03.200
<v Speaker 4>they were picking on this couple in the crowd, and

0:55:03.239 --> 0:55:05.239
<v Speaker 4>I could see the other people in the audience kind

0:55:05.280 --> 0:55:08.200
<v Speaker 4>of getting you know, involved and trying to get rid

0:55:08.200 --> 0:55:08.840
<v Speaker 4>of these guys.

0:55:09.440 --> 0:55:11.120
<v Speaker 3>So I just jumped off the stage and.

0:55:11.040 --> 0:55:13.359
<v Speaker 4>It was you know, quite a number of people and

0:55:13.480 --> 0:55:14.560
<v Speaker 4>was like, I don't want to play for you guys,

0:55:14.600 --> 0:55:15.600
<v Speaker 4>get the fuck out, and we just.

0:55:15.680 --> 0:55:18.399
<v Speaker 3>Human walled these dudes out of the show.

0:55:18.440 --> 0:55:22.000
<v Speaker 4>But one of them broke around our phalanx and smacked

0:55:22.160 --> 0:55:23.520
<v Speaker 4>the guy and the girl in the face, like this

0:55:23.640 --> 0:55:26.520
<v Speaker 4>couple in the face. I don't I'm not a fighter.

0:55:26.960 --> 0:55:29.040
<v Speaker 4>I'm not a tough guy. I don't know a lot

0:55:29.080 --> 0:55:31.440
<v Speaker 4>of stuff about like that sort of world, but I

0:55:31.440 --> 0:55:33.600
<v Speaker 4>do know a lot about pro wrestling. So when I

0:55:33.600 --> 0:55:35.920
<v Speaker 4>saw him do that, I just went to, you know,

0:55:36.000 --> 0:55:38.960
<v Speaker 4>my best Kurt Angle impression and just attack this dude.

0:55:39.840 --> 0:55:42.200
<v Speaker 4>And then his friends came over and attacked me, and

0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:44.640
<v Speaker 4>then more people than more people, and then security was

0:55:44.640 --> 0:55:47.120
<v Speaker 4>stopping people, trying to break up the fight. And I'm

0:55:47.160 --> 0:55:50.759
<v Speaker 4>just covered up and they're just stomping, stomping and stomping,

0:55:51.520 --> 0:55:54.960
<v Speaker 4>and I got up and we you know, it was over.

0:55:55.040 --> 0:55:57.080
<v Speaker 4>I was covered in blood. I'm like, holy shit, and

0:55:57.080 --> 0:55:58.320
<v Speaker 4>they're like, what do you want to do. I'm like,

0:55:58.400 --> 0:56:00.000
<v Speaker 4>let's finish the set, and so we went up in

0:56:00.080 --> 0:56:00.880
<v Speaker 4>finish the set.

0:56:01.680 --> 0:56:04.279
<v Speaker 3>And I don't know, I think that was a real.

0:56:04.719 --> 0:56:07.960
<v Speaker 4>Turning point for me playing live, because I think up

0:56:08.040 --> 0:56:11.080
<v Speaker 4>until that point, I felt like I was invincible, and

0:56:11.160 --> 0:56:13.640
<v Speaker 4>I realized after that point that I'm I'm a person.

0:56:13.640 --> 0:56:14.840
<v Speaker 4>It didn't change the fact that I'm going to go

0:56:14.880 --> 0:56:16.960
<v Speaker 4>on the crowd, I'm going to interact with people. But

0:56:17.080 --> 0:56:20.880
<v Speaker 4>what it did is, I think change the way I

0:56:20.920 --> 0:56:22.279
<v Speaker 4>go into a live show.

0:56:22.400 --> 0:56:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Were you injured, were you were afterwards? Effect? You know,

0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:29.440
<v Speaker 2>does it does it make you not want to you know, psychologically?

0:56:29.520 --> 0:56:31.520
<v Speaker 2>That's quite the shocking things to do with, isn't it.

0:56:31.520 --> 0:56:31.840
<v Speaker 3>It was?

0:56:31.880 --> 0:56:34.720
<v Speaker 4>It was definitely, uh, I think I had a concussion

0:56:34.719 --> 0:56:36.960
<v Speaker 4>in retrospect, I know I had a concussion, especially because

0:56:36.960 --> 0:56:39.759
<v Speaker 4>of all this stuff I know about pro wrestling. But

0:56:39.920 --> 0:56:42.200
<v Speaker 4>there's no days off in music, so we played shows

0:56:42.320 --> 0:56:45.440
<v Speaker 4>immediately after. My jaw was pretty fucked up. I couldn't

0:56:45.440 --> 0:56:47.360
<v Speaker 4>close my jaw until I got back to Canada. I

0:56:47.360 --> 0:56:49.000
<v Speaker 4>got a chiropractor to kind of put it back into

0:56:49.040 --> 0:56:52.399
<v Speaker 4>place for me. Yeah, it was it like, I don't

0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:55.040
<v Speaker 4>want to make it seem like you know, that made

0:56:55.040 --> 0:56:58.040
<v Speaker 4>me stage? You know, Yeah, I gave me stage right

0:56:58.080 --> 0:56:59.879
<v Speaker 4>after that because it wasn't like that. But I think

0:57:00.000 --> 0:57:03.120
<v Speaker 4>what it did do is give me a chance to

0:57:03.200 --> 0:57:05.000
<v Speaker 4>kind of pause and reflect on.

0:57:06.360 --> 0:57:07.960
<v Speaker 3>The role of musician and the role of.

0:57:07.920 --> 0:57:13.040
<v Speaker 4>Audience and how you know, as the musician in front

0:57:13.040 --> 0:57:15.640
<v Speaker 4>of this audience, you can feel like you're a superhuman,

0:57:16.200 --> 0:57:18.040
<v Speaker 4>but the reality is you're just the same as anyone

0:57:18.040 --> 0:57:19.320
<v Speaker 4>else in that crowd, you know.

0:57:20.600 --> 0:57:24.160
<v Speaker 2>And just finally, then we talked about making a podcast

0:57:24.200 --> 0:57:27.680
<v Speaker 2>about punk history and talking to punk legends.

0:57:26.480 --> 0:57:29.120
<v Speaker 4>Well as to cannabis thing, because we have to bring

0:57:29.120 --> 0:57:31.800
<v Speaker 4>it back to punk again. Yeah, you know, Canadian cannabis

0:57:31.920 --> 0:57:36.120
<v Speaker 4>legalization only happens because of punk, right, okay. Jel Biafra

0:57:36.840 --> 0:57:39.760
<v Speaker 4>on his third spoken word record, did a song or

0:57:39.800 --> 0:57:42.720
<v Speaker 4>did a spoken word track I guess, uh called I

0:57:42.720 --> 0:57:46.560
<v Speaker 4>Believe It's everyone should grow more marijuana. And in that

0:57:47.440 --> 0:57:49.880
<v Speaker 4>spoken word piece he mentions this book The Emperor Has

0:57:49.880 --> 0:57:52.280
<v Speaker 4>No Clothes, which is written by this cannabis activist named

0:57:52.320 --> 0:57:57.840
<v Speaker 4>Jack Harro and that's like the original text for cannabis legalization,

0:57:58.080 --> 0:58:01.960
<v Speaker 4>cannabis advocacy type thing. So he mentioned this book and

0:58:02.160 --> 0:58:05.600
<v Speaker 4>at the time there was this anarchist not anarchists, I guess,

0:58:05.640 --> 0:58:09.360
<v Speaker 4>more like libertarian bookstore owner in London, Ontario that owned

0:58:09.400 --> 0:58:15.600
<v Speaker 4>this bookstore called City Lights named Mark Emery. Mark, you know,

0:58:15.720 --> 0:58:18.919
<v Speaker 4>became like a big fan of this jel By Afra

0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:21.880
<v Speaker 4>spoken word piece. It wasn't a cannabis guy. It was

0:58:21.960 --> 0:58:23.760
<v Speaker 4>just like, you know, just fucking with the government. Like

0:58:23.760 --> 0:58:27.600
<v Speaker 4>he would do things like refill expired parking meters dressed

0:58:27.640 --> 0:58:30.200
<v Speaker 4>as a faery, or he would open up on Sundays,

0:58:30.280 --> 0:58:32.080
<v Speaker 4>or he'd sell the Two Life Crew record after it

0:58:32.120 --> 0:58:34.920
<v Speaker 4>was deemed offensive material and couldn't be sold right, So

0:58:34.960 --> 0:58:37.360
<v Speaker 4>he'd just do anything to kind of agitate the government.

0:58:37.360 --> 0:58:40.240
<v Speaker 4>He was like a libertarian guy. So then he heard

0:58:40.240 --> 0:58:41.840
<v Speaker 4>this track by jel By Afric because at the time

0:58:42.080 --> 0:58:46.120
<v Speaker 4>by Affra was embroiled in the PERMRCI censorship lawsuit where

0:58:46.120 --> 0:58:48.560
<v Speaker 4>the PMRC was coming after him for the Geiger artwork

0:58:48.680 --> 0:58:51.479
<v Speaker 4>in one of their records. So he became a huge

0:58:51.480 --> 0:58:53.360
<v Speaker 4>fan of Jael by Afra and actually brought him up

0:58:53.400 --> 0:58:56.720
<v Speaker 4>to London, Ontario do a spoken word thing and really

0:58:56.800 --> 0:58:59.480
<v Speaker 4>took to this track Everyone should grow more marijuana. And

0:58:59.520 --> 0:59:01.520
<v Speaker 4>so he tried order in that book The Empire Has

0:59:01.600 --> 0:59:04.120
<v Speaker 4>No Clothes and was informed by a supplier that that

0:59:04.120 --> 0:59:07.280
<v Speaker 4>book was actually on the banned booklist in Canada. So

0:59:07.760 --> 0:59:10.560
<v Speaker 4>he was like, well, here's my new cause. So he

0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:13.360
<v Speaker 4>smuggled in that book and also smuggled in High Times magazine,

0:59:13.360 --> 0:59:15.560
<v Speaker 4>which was also illegal in Canada at the time, and

0:59:15.680 --> 0:59:17.600
<v Speaker 4>was selling those and they sold like hotcakes. So then

0:59:17.600 --> 0:59:21.800
<v Speaker 4>he started bringing in all these advocates and activists and

0:59:22.160 --> 0:59:25.240
<v Speaker 4>got them to start doing lectures and basically radicalized himself.

0:59:25.840 --> 0:59:29.320
<v Speaker 4>And then he ultimately moves to BC and opens the

0:59:29.720 --> 0:59:33.600
<v Speaker 4>first seed bank in British Columbia, selling seeds to America.

0:59:33.760 --> 0:59:36.160
<v Speaker 4>Eventually got arrested by the American government for selling a

0:59:36.200 --> 0:59:38.800
<v Speaker 4>million seeds. They charged them for a pound of marijuana

0:59:38.840 --> 0:59:41.040
<v Speaker 4>for every seed he sold, so they charged him with

0:59:41.120 --> 0:59:44.240
<v Speaker 4>one million pounds of marijuana. He did five years in prison,

0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:48.800
<v Speaker 4>came back to Canada. But he's really there's a lot

0:59:48.800 --> 0:59:50.560
<v Speaker 4>of baggage with him as a person, so I'm not

0:59:50.760 --> 0:59:52.640
<v Speaker 4>you know, but when it comes to cannabis, he's really

0:59:52.680 --> 0:59:56.240
<v Speaker 4>the guy that spearheaded the legalization effort in a big way.

0:59:56.320 --> 0:59:58.760
<v Speaker 4>And once again, it all comes back to Jello Biafra

0:59:58.880 --> 0:59:59.600
<v Speaker 4>and punk rock.

1:00:00.040 --> 1:00:02.280
<v Speaker 2>It's a cyclical thing, isn't it traces back?

1:00:02.640 --> 1:00:05.560
<v Speaker 4>No, And also you didn't we didn't even get into

1:00:05.600 --> 1:00:08.640
<v Speaker 4>it with wrestling. My god, the punk wrestling connection is strong.

1:00:08.800 --> 1:00:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, that's that's for podcasts. Exactly exactly where do

1:00:12.960 --> 1:00:15.560
<v Speaker 2>you see all of these interests like converging in the

1:00:15.600 --> 1:00:18.040
<v Speaker 2>next kind of five years, Because you've got to make

1:00:18.080 --> 1:00:20.480
<v Speaker 2>TV shows about wrestling, you know, you make the podcasts

1:00:20.480 --> 1:00:22.760
<v Speaker 2>about punk rock, you get to be the front man

1:00:22.800 --> 1:00:24.800
<v Speaker 2>in a punk band tour in the world. Like, where

1:00:24.840 --> 1:00:29.320
<v Speaker 2>where do all these interests collide in the next five years.

1:00:29.400 --> 1:00:31.640
<v Speaker 2>You're a great front man, you're a great broadcast you're

1:00:31.640 --> 1:00:34.080
<v Speaker 2>a great journalist, So like, where where do things go next?

1:00:34.200 --> 1:00:37.160
<v Speaker 4>Well, I definitely appreciate that journalists compliment, but I'm just

1:00:37.320 --> 1:00:40.480
<v Speaker 4>a fan. As a fan who likes to be a nerd,

1:00:42.080 --> 1:00:44.800
<v Speaker 4>I think they have, you know, coalesced in a certain

1:00:44.840 --> 1:00:48.040
<v Speaker 4>exec Like it almost feels like they're once again kind

1:00:48.080 --> 1:00:52.040
<v Speaker 4>of all feeding off each other, you know. Like recently,

1:00:53.160 --> 1:00:54.960
<v Speaker 4>a bunch of wrestlers came to town to do a

1:00:55.000 --> 1:00:59.440
<v Speaker 4>TV taping and I took them to dispensary or a

1:00:59.520 --> 1:01:01.080
<v Speaker 4>cannabis lounge to smoke cannabis.

1:01:01.120 --> 1:01:01.720
<v Speaker 3>Afterwards.

1:01:02.560 --> 1:01:04.200
<v Speaker 4>There was another wrestler that I ran into when I

1:01:04.200 --> 1:01:06.440
<v Speaker 4>was in Montreal, that wrestler from the UK, Jimmy Havoc.

1:01:06.440 --> 1:01:08.640
<v Speaker 4>Shout out to Jimmy Havock, death Match King of the

1:01:08.680 --> 1:01:12.880
<v Speaker 4>UK and Jimmy Havock named himself after Davy Havock from AFI.

1:01:13.560 --> 1:01:16.080
<v Speaker 4>Davy's someone that I've been friends with for a super

1:01:16.080 --> 1:01:18.160
<v Speaker 4>long time. So I got to introduce the two of them,

1:01:18.600 --> 1:01:21.840
<v Speaker 4>which was a huge thrill to me. Oh my god,

1:01:21.880 --> 1:01:24.640
<v Speaker 4>that made my summer getting to do that. Jimmy was

1:01:24.640 --> 1:01:27.200
<v Speaker 4>pretty stoked too. Davy was a little indifferent, but Jimmy

1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:29.120
<v Speaker 4>was super stoked and I was super stoked, which is

1:01:29.160 --> 1:01:32.760
<v Speaker 4>good enough. So I kind of see them always kind

1:01:32.800 --> 1:01:35.880
<v Speaker 4>of interacting and like dancing with each other in a

1:01:36.640 --> 1:01:39.160
<v Speaker 4>real way. You know, MVP who's been on my podcast

1:01:39.240 --> 1:01:41.800
<v Speaker 4>a bunch, who's a pro wrestler, traveled all over the

1:01:41.840 --> 1:01:45.200
<v Speaker 4>world wrestling. Also, like you know this punk rock guy

1:01:45.280 --> 1:01:48.160
<v Speaker 4>who by his own in middle is a fan of

1:01:48.200 --> 1:01:50.880
<v Speaker 4>cannabis as well. So you know, I find that all

1:01:50.920 --> 1:01:54.440
<v Speaker 4>these things kind of are constantly, you know, revolving around

1:01:54.480 --> 1:01:58.240
<v Speaker 4>each other, and like, I couldn't imagine my life without

1:01:58.280 --> 1:02:15.640
<v Speaker 4>one of them.

1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:18.880
<v Speaker 1>Midnight Chats is a loud and quiet podcast production by

1:02:18.920 --> 1:02:23.320
<v Speaker 1>Emma Snook Music courtesy of gold Panda. Search Midnight Chats

1:02:23.360 --> 1:02:27.240
<v Speaker 1>on iTunes for more episodes and to subscribe. For more information,

1:02:27.480 --> 1:02:34.920
<v Speaker 1>visit loudan Quiet dot com