WEBVTT - The Best Friends, The Cheating Husband and The Lies That Bind 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:03.520 Falling in love is the best feeling in the world. 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.560 You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:12.960 you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.840 because the story starts out with Once upon a Times 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.599 doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.919 and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:29.400 Today's guests are producer Jeff Shane an investigative journalist Sue Buchanan. 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.720 Sue spent many years working in Thailand and ended up 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.920 writing the hip book The Curse of the Turtle, the 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:41.160 true story of Thailand's backpacker murders. The book is about 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.400 suspicious backpacker deaths that occurred on the island of Katao 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.080 and is available now wherever you get your books. Sue 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:53.920 can be found on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at Sue Buchanan. Seventy, 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.560 Episode thirty two, The Case of the Best Friends, the 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:08.120 Cheat Husband, and the Lies That Bind. For anyone who 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.480 knew thirty nine year old Brian Davis, the word that 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:14.920 would come to mind was fun. Whether he was out 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:18.959 on the lake fishing his biggest passion, or in the 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.880 office working on selling insurance, Brian had a jovial and 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:27.520 carefree attitude that was infectious. Friends and family said it 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:30.039 was impossible not to have a good time when Brian 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:34.319 was around, simply because he was that good natured. But 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.759 fun wasn't Brian's only good quality. He was also an 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.440 outgoing and intelligent man. He could strike up a conversation 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.319 with just about anyone, and it didn't hurt that he 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:49.800 seemed to know a little something about everyone. That intelligent 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.720 confidence allowed Brian to meet his fair share of ladies, 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.920 but one in particular caught his eye, a woman named 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:02.400 Robin he met at work. Responsible and reserved, Robin didn't 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:07.120 care for Brian's personality. Despite both being single parents who 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.920 adored their kids, Robin didn't think they had anything in common. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.760 Frankly put, she found him annoying. So after three years 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.360 of working together, Robin was surprised when Brian asked her out, 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.160 and she was even more surprised at her response. Yes. 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.079 Despite some trepidations, the two hit it off and were 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:34.919 married within four years, living in Lake Charles, Louisiana. Here's 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.640 Jeff So. While the story between Robin and Brian is 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.400 certainly important to the case, the real relationship at the 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.640 core of everything is actually between Robin and her best friend, 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.800 a woman named Sissy Saltzman. The two had been friends 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.480 for over twenty years and they did everything together. When 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.200 they went to the beauty salon, they had a standing 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.240 double appointment. They were both Southern women who were fiercely 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.799 loyal to not only each other, but also the men 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.480 in their lives. Robin explained their ship, It's the kind 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.600 of friendship that all people should have, she said. It's 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:06.560 the one person that you can call no matter what, 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.920 and they're they're regardless. So do you know anything more 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.040 about Robin and Brian's marriage, Well, I know that women 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:15.120 needed to lean on each other when Robin had to 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:19.359 deal with Brian, her husband. Despite Brian being a loving husband, 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.960 he also had a wandering eye. Robin caught him cheating 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.360 on her at least twice, and one of the affairs 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.320 was with a woman named Fanny, and that one lasted 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:33.160 for two years. According to Fanny, she and Brian loved 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:37.040 each other, but it wasn't just Fanny. Brian was potatious 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:41.240 with women everywhere he went. However, Robin gave him a pass. 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.600 She decided to forgive him and move past it. So 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.040 it sounds like while their marriage maybe worked, there were 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:51.320 definitely some cracks. I think definitely. I mean, obviously he's um, 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.240 he's a flirtatious guy. He's got a roving eye. And 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.440 it's not just the eye that's roving. I mean he's 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.840 acting on this and he's held down another relationship with 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.040 this woman called Franny for for two years, So he's, 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.480 you know, slightly devious, I would imagine, and I'm not 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.840 quite sure how Robin could look past that and just 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:11.720 suck it up. But it seems that, you know, there 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.240 was enough in the relationship for her to decide to 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.920 stay with him and stay low to him. Two years 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.720 is not just a quick affair. That's a real relationship. 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:21.839 I think if you're with someone for two years, you 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.880 can't put that down to a mistake or one drunken 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.839 night out where you've done something wrong. I mean explaining 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.440 away how you've been, you know, having a double relationship 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.159 for two years. It's not easy, is it. So I'm 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.680 surprised Robin would would tolerate that. But then maybe she 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.680 loved him, maybe she didn't want to be on her own, 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.080 Maybe she was willing to get past that. Just so 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.000 you know she didn't end up single, and by all accounts, 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.239 she really leaned on her friends Sissy in good times 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.480 and bad times. I think she had a really strong 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:54.000 relationship with to See And obviously, you know, finding out 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:57.000 your husband's cheating on you as devastating, so she would 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.360 have needed her friend a lot for moral support for 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.440 going out chewing over the fat discussing what her husband 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.520 was doing, I mean, it has to be pretty devastating, 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.159 and I'm sure her self esteem was very low, so 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.720 I would imagine Cissy was the one that pepped her 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:12.840 back up and gave it back her self worth. And 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.560 it would be interesting to know if if Cissy had 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.560 ever suggested that perhaps she was in the wrong relationship, 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.720 if Robin should leave her husband. I mean, who knows. 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.839 There were also kids involved in the relationship so well, 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.840 So while we don't know for sure, it's possible that 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:30.600 Robin felt like keeping her family together was more important 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.520 than maybe happiness in her relationship. And I would imagine 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.560 being a single mother again would be quite a daunting prospect. 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.760 That maybe she was willing to not have a perfect 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.720 relationship was better than going back to being a single mom. 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.039 And remember this is the South. We obviously know that 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.719 Robin really cared about her appearances. She went and got 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.880 her hair and nails done every week, and so perhaps 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.840 keeping up the appearance of this happy marriage was just 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:00.320 more important to her than having a faithful marriage. Yeah, 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.120 I'm sure there was an element of pride and not 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.960 wanting people to know that, you know, perhaps her relationship 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.440 wasn't all that it seemed to be. I mean, you're 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.280 not going to go around announcing that your husband's you know, 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.400 regularly cheating on you, especially when one of the women 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.719 he cheated with, Fanny, you know, said they were in 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:17.560 love with each other. I mean, two years is a 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:21.239 substantial amount of time to be dullying with somebody else. 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.240 I mean there must have had, you know, some level 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.480 of love for each other for it to last that long. Otherwise, 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:30.080 why would why would he stick around? On June two 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.200 thousand and nine, Brian was about to fulfill a lifelong 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:37.760 dream of buying a fishing boat. Ever, the supportive wife, Robin, 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.520 joined her husband for a day of shopping, but after 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.200 a few hours, Robin grew tired of looking at boat 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:48.279 after boat, so around three thirty pm, Robin said that 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:52.360 Brian dropped her off at home. He then switched cars 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.840 and took off in his under accord it would be 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:59.320 the last time Robin would ever see her husband alive. 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.719 At ten PM, when Brian hadn't returned home, Robin called 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.080 nine one. Police told her she had to wait twenty 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:11.160 four hours to file a missing person's report. For two days, 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.000 friends and family were panicked about Brian's whereabouts. It wasn't 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.160 like the father of four to just up and leaf. 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.880 Two days after disappearing, a man found Brian's body on 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.920 wagon wheel drive, a small dirt road that is miles 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.000 from Brian's house and near the expanse of Marshland in 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.520 the region. Brian's body had been laying close to a 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.800 swamp for at least two days in the southern summer heat, 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.200 so there was a fair amount of decomposition. However, the 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.280 coroner determined Brian had been shot four times in the back. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:49.680 Gunshell casings were also strewn around the area. Police studied 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:54.360 the entire crime scene and made some interesting findings. Despite 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.760 Brian's car being jacked up as if there were a 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:01.120 flat tire, the tire itself was in working condition and 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:07.679 wouldn't have required changing. Someone had also taken Brian's cell phone, wallet, laptop, gun, 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:12.560 and GPS device, but detectives didn't think this was a robbery. 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:17.320 Brian was still wearing his ring and watch. Police surmise 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.560 that if someone were trying to rob the man, they 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.280 would have taken all the valuables. But the most mysterious 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.880 thing about the scene was the fact that Brian's shoes 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:30.000 were off and his belt undone. One thing was clear. 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:36.600 This case was not cut and dry here, Sue. Well, 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:38.480 we know that Robin told the cops that she was 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.160 really worried about Brian after he failed to come home, 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:43.480 and she told the police she'd called him quite a 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.000 few times and she'd left multiple voice messages before she 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.600 eventually called nine one one. She was obviously really concerned 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.760 about his whereabouts. But while all that seems like the 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.439 right thing to do, Robin struck a nerve with Brian's 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.760 family because she never called them so he was missing. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.680 Brian went missing on Monday, and his family didn't find 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.000 out until Wednesday, and that was only when Brian's ex 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.920 wife called his sister to ask her if she could 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.880 help search for him. The sister was furious. She called 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:17.200 Robin and Robin told her don't freak out, she could 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.200 handle it, and as we know, later on that day 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.440 Brian's body was found. Well, it seems like Robin had 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.560 her own way of dealing with it. The police were 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.200 hard at work trying to figure out what happened to Brian. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.640 Nine days after finding his body, the police brought in 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.840 Robin's best friend, Sissy, for questioning. She was very close 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.240 with the deceased and his wife, so it stood to 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.440 reason she would have some information. Let's take a listen 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.160 to some of her interview. The night before Sunday night, 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.400 when I went to get in my car, it would start, 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.160 so I just too his car home because he was 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.480 taking her truck to work. Sissy told the cops that 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:55.800 the last time she saw Brian was the day before 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.280 the murder. What she said was that she borrowed his 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.760 car because she was having trouble with hers. Cissy said 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.480 that she dropped it back at his house the morning 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.960 Brian disappeared. Where did she spend the day, cops asked. 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.760 Sissy said that she had been harm between eleven am 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.559 and three thirty pm, waiting for Robin to pick her up. 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.480 Take a listen to her explaining her schedule to the police, 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:28.960 didn't you anywhere come back? In all of the missing 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.800 people's cases I've covered or even watched on documentaries, suspicion 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.960 always goes to immediate family, normally partners. Do you have 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.880 to wonder what family's husband was doing around this time. 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.160 I don't think it's unusual to to bring people into questioning, 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.920 you know, the wife, the friend of the wife, close family. 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:46.360 I mean, that's where you're going to get all your 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.480 information from. But I do find it strange that Robin 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.320 didn't bother to tell his family he not shown up 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.640 that night. You know, if someone was missing from my life, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.480 the first thing I do is call around and see 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.360 if they'd seen him. That is weird. We know she 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.520 was concerned enough that she said she called him multiple times, 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:05.440 so you would sort of think, like you said, that 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.720 she would also call his family and ask if he's there, 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.120 Questions like have you seen him? Have you heard of 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.480 her m Those are all things that the family might 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.600 not Yeah, of course, because potentially if he's not at home, 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.160 then maybe he's called rand to see his family. You know, 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.480 maybe his mother fell ill, maybe he suddenly had to 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.320 divert to the family home, so that would seem to 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.440 me to be a logical place to start looking. But 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.640 apparently she didn't make that call. And to play devil's advocate, 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.880 we don't necessarily know her relationship with his family, and 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.760 so maybe it wasn't the kind of relationship that she 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.880 would even call in kind of a scary time. To me, 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.000 it does seem weird, but again, we don't know the 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.680 dynamics of this family. Even if I didn't get on 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.520 with my in laws, I still want to knock off 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.439 list of potential places he could be. But yeah, you're right, 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.800 maybe they didn't have a good relationship. We don't know that, 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.040 so difficult to stay, but certainly not unusual for the 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.840 place to bring in, you know, close friends and family 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.600 in this kind of investigation. In my experience, I'll just 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.200 find interesting that his ex wife knew he was missing 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.920 before his immediate family. As police looked at the people 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.920 in good natured Brian's life, they wondered who would want 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.040 him dead. It seemed that one person might have motive, 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.280 the husband of Brian's long term mistress, a man named 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:22.120 Shane Deets. Here's what we know about Shane. He had 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.400 been married to Fanny who was having that two year 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.880 affair with Brian. Fanny, the mistress, had allegedly told her 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.200 husband Shane about the affair just two months before Brian 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.760 was found dead. Getting back at the man who was 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.079 sleeping with your wife would certainly be a good enough 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.320 reason to kill So what else do we know about 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.840 the relationship between Fanny and Brian. So we know that 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.640 Fanny gave emails to the police between her and Brian, 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.160 and in those emails, Fanny and Brian often talked about 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.960 Brian's interest in public sex. And remember when he was 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.079 found his belt and shoes were off. Could he have 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.480 been out on wagon wheel road to meet Fanny for 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.320 a trust? Not so fast. People who knew Brian said 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.000 he was obsessed with his car and wouldn't have taken 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.800 it down such a dirty and bumpy roade for nothing. 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.920 In fact, Fanny said that even if he had flies 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.240 on his windshield, he immediately got the car washed. But 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.600 perhaps he was lured there by Shane and the false 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.839 presentses about an open air rendezvous with Fanny. It turned 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.640 out that, despite seemingly having a pretty good motive to 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.640 kill him, the cops never even called Shane before questioning him. 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.480 The police called his place of work instead, and his 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.760 boss said that Shane had clocked in the day Brian disappeared. 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.400 That was good enough for detectives to dismiss him as 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.720 a suspect. It just seems weird because we don't actually 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.599 know when Brian was killed, just the day that he disappeared. 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.800 But in any case, Shane was never an official suspect. 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:48.960 Let's clarify that, because we know that Brian was last 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.319 seen sometime in the afternoon, either at the boat shop 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.160 or dropping his wife off, and as far as our 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.800 research could tell, we actually don't know a time of 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.000 death because if you look at the decomposite Shan, Brian 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.600 wasn't completely decomposed when the cops found him. And having 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.920 covered a fair amount of these true crime cases, we 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.480 know that a body can decompose in the summer quickly, 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.200 and in Louisiana this time of year, Brian could have 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.320 been decomposed very quickly. So I think, you know, there's 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.280 very little evidence here in terms of time of death 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:25.160 and the whereabouts the potential suspect. We're going to take 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:41.480 a break, we'll be back in just a moment. I 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.880 just can't believe that cops would not even call Shane 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.360 because at the very least he would have information about 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.640 the case. What if Fanny had been the killer, Shane 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:51.920 could have at least provided some sort of insight into 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.920 Brian's frame of mind or the relationship between Fanny and Brian. 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:58.600 And it did say that, you know, Fanny and Brian 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:00.840 have been having an affair for two years, but it 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.160 seems like it possibly could have come to an end. 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.200 And if she was really upset that he was going 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.040 to stay with his wife when perhaps previously she thought 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.720 she'd end up together with him, then that that gives 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.240 someone else a motive. And you know, as anyone checking 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.200 for a DNA, is anyone checking for firearms or anything 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.840 in Fanny's car or Shane's car? I mean, why aren't 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:24.480 these people being adequately investigated? That's a very good question. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.240 I mean, did Fanny have a gun? You know, did 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.120 she go to the shooting range, did she have a 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.520 temper as she got, any history of previous criminal activity? 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.200 And the same goes for Shane. So you have two 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.360 people here with a potential motive, and yet they've really 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.120 not been investigated at all. What do we know about 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.960 Shane's history. You know, has he got any criminal record, 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.480 has he been involved in anything like this before, has 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.760 he got a temper? I mean, who is this guy? 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.520 We know so little about him, and so in your 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.080 experience covering criminal cases, do you think that the police should, 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.800 in their due diligence look at every single suspect thoroughly. 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.360 From the information got here, I would say the police 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.440 have shown no due diligence and it was a really 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.840 shodly investigated case. I mean, you know, you've got a 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.560 couple of potential suspect, you've not even been questioned, and 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.240 they're just taking Shane's boss's word for it that he 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:14.840 clocked in. Where's the proof he clocked in? You know, 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:16.520 and we don't even know if that day was the 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.280 day that Brian died anyway, so you know, they should 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.160 be checking his whereabouts for you know, at least forty 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.440 eight hours from him going missing to his body being found. 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.560 So it doesn't seem like a very tight investigation to me. 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.320 In fact, it seems that, you know, quite the opposite. 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.880 It really just seems that there's no true diligence going 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.120 on here. I wouldn't trust this police force as Shane 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.080 was cleared of the crime, police turn their attention back 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.680 to the two best friends who seemed to have a 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.040 lot to hide. While Robin told the police she had 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.760 called Brian numerous times when he failed to come home 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:55.240 from boat shopping, her phone records proved otherwise. As it 0:16:55.320 --> 0:17:00.320 turns out Robin never called Brian. It wouldn't be the 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.840 last lie the besties would allegedly tell. Sissy had told 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.840 officials she had been home the day Brian disappeared. The 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.320 police looked to sell tower records to see if this 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:16.040 was true. It was not. Starting at one thirty pm, 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.240 Sissy's phone picked off a tower that was eleven miles 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.160 from her home. It also happened to be the closest 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.480 tower to the crime scene. This means she made a 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:29.080 call near the scene of the crime. According to cell 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.440 tower experts, there was no way Sissy's cell phone would 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.560 have picked from that tower if in fact, she had 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:40.080 been home. The police's theory was that Brian never actually 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.840 went home and switched cars like Robin had said, and 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.480 that Sissy had never returned the car after borrowing it 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.760 like she had said. The police thought that Sissy called 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.879 Brian from wagon will drive, pretending to have a flat tire, 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.800 and when Brian and Robin arrived, one or both of 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.639 the woman shot him. Robin stood to gain more than 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.800 six hundred thousand dollars and insurance out She did, in fact, 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.120 attempt to cash in on that policy just two weeks 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.440 after her husband's death. She had recently lost her job 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:13.720 and had racked up considerable gambling debts, and the couple 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.600 were on the verge of losing their home. So so 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.439 why would Saysie also be involved? Well, that would be 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.280 sheer loyalty to her best friend. I guess so often 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.680 we see in these cases that money becomes the motivation, 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:26.720 or at least what the police think is the motivation, 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.800 to commit murder. I'd agree with that, but I also 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.040 think that if I was about to lose my home 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.360 and I had gambling debts and he had life insurance policy, 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:39.800 I would be thinking of making myself financially secure anyway. 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.400 I mean, you know, that's what life insurance policies are born. 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.000 So if one of you dies, the other one doesn't 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.840 you know, land in the suit. So although I think 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.879 it's a motive, I don't think it's that unusual. And 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.320 I also think if I had killed my husband, I 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.879 would be waiting more than two weeks before I cashed 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.800 that in because they're looking too obvious. So you know, 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.159 it's either not a very well thought out plan. But 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:03.640 then on the other hand, it could be a smoke 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.080 screen because she could say, well, you know, if I 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.000 killed him, why would I be claiming on the insurance 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.440 two weeks later? So there's different ways of looking at it. 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.760 That's a very interesting point. If he had died of 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.199 a heart attack, no one would bet an eyelash that 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.639 she waited two weeks to collect the money. In fact, 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.480 that would probably seem like a long time. So if 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.080 she didn't actually kill him, the two week timeline doesn't 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:28.080 really mean anything. No, I wouldn't have thought so. I mean, 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.760 we know she'd lost her job, so you know, it 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.119 seems quite radical to kill your husband to get money 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.080 just because you've lost your job. Then he was also 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.320 having affairs. If he died of natural causes, then you know, 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:42.080 waiting a fortnight before trying to make yourself financially is 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.719 actually quite a long time. Also, the fact that they 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.800 sold insurance, I think speaks to this two week timeline. 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:51.160 It's her job to know the system. So she knows 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.280 very well that when someone dies you have to file 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.000 to claim the money. And when you've lost someone you love, 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.280 I mean six days is not going to bring him back, 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:00.840 but it takes this thing out of it when you're 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.840 not struggling for money. So and don't forget, you know, 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.320 she's got his kids and her kids. She's got six 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.719 kids now between them. Of course she's going to want 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:13.200 some money. Six months after Brian was found dead, Robbin 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.240 and Cissy were charged with murder. Internally, the police were 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:21.119 referring to the investigation as the Felmer and Louise case. 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.120 The two women would stay on trial as they did 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:30.399 everything else together. We know that. The May two thousand 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:32.920 and twelve trial, the defense talked about the lack of 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.920 physical evidence. I mean, we've got no fingerprints here, we've 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.840 got no DNA, And they also pointed to the fact 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.199 that a local bar had a surveillance camera on the 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.000 road and that would have easily proved if Robin and 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.840 Cissy were guilty because the CCTV would have picked them 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.880 up driving down that road. But amazingly, the cops actually 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:53.879 lost the take. The defense went on to say the 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.400 cops were incompetent to their theories just could not be trusted. 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.560 And they also showed surveillance of Robin the morning of 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.520 the murder shopping for a boat with Brian, and she 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:07.240 could be seen wearing white capri pants and really flimsy 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.080 flip flop sandals. No one, they argued he was planning 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.000 on murdering their husband in a marsh would be wearing 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.520 such an impractical life bit. The defense also performed tests 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.959 with the cell phone towers that found when a tower 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.120 becomes overloaded with calls, they get bounced to other towers, 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.160 meaning Sissy might have been telling the truth. However, unfortunately 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.080 for the defense, that test was ruled an admissible in court. 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:32.280 So I want to go back to what the defense 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.080 was saying about the outfit, because I think it's pretty interesting. 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:40.480 They argued that Robin, who allegedly was the murderer, would 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.560 not have worn white pants and sandals to go kill 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:47.480 her husband. Basically, it's just an impractical outfit to do 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:51.440 such a strenuous and potentially dirty activity. I mean, from 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:53.520