1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newtsworld. In August of twenty twenty one, 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: America ended its longest war. As the world watched the 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: shocking scene at the Kabbel Airport. Marine Major Tom Schumann 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: fought both behind the scenes and through a social media 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: campaign to get his friend and former Afghan interpreter Zach 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: out of Afghanistan before he and his family were discovered 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: by the Taliban. In their new memoir Always Faithful, a 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: Story of the War in Afghanistan, the Fall of Kabble, 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: and the Unshakable Bond between a Marine and interpreter, Tom 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: and Zach tell the story of how they came together 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan's deadly Helman Valley, where they formed a brotherhood, 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: eventually culminating in Zach's harrowing eleventh hour rescue. Here to 13 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: talk about their three hundred and sixty view of the 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: war in Afghanistan. I am really pleased to welcome my guests, 15 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: Major Tom Shu and Zeniola Zach Zaki. Tom and Zach, 16 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: thank you both for joining me on NEWTS World. Thanks 17 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: for having us air. You know, it's hard to believe 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: it's almost been one year since the United States withdrew 19 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: from Afghanistan. The anniversary is considered August thirtieth, when the 20 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: last US military plane left the Cobbel Airport. Tom, Where 21 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: were you when we began to see the way the 22 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: withdrawal was being handled and what was your reaction to it. 23 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: I was at the Naval Academy for about a few 24 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: weeks of the withdrawal, and then I reported to the 25 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: Naval War College in Newport, Ryland is really where I 26 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: spent the bulk of that time coordinating the evacuation efforts 27 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: during the collapse. So let me go back to the beginning, Zach, 28 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: What was it like growing up in Afghanistan under Taliban rule? 29 00:01:54,840 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: Life going in Afghanistan under Taliban rule? That was very 30 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: very fastrating and very hard life for the Afghan people 31 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: because no good schools, no very vel opportunities for the 32 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: girls schools, and they has only mother says which teach 33 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: only Islamic lessons, and we didn't had opportunity to get 34 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: like new education, like technology and other stuff which is 35 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: in this time we needed. And it was very very 36 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: hard life. Well, you know, you were eleven years old 37 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: when you heard about nine to eleven. What was the 38 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: general feeling of people around you? When they heard that 39 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: the World Trade Center had been destroyed. When I was leo, 40 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: my father had a radio like this is a news radio. 41 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: We just tell the news like idio news. We hasn't 42 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: had TV on that time, no TVs, no and just 43 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: only radios. We just said. My father listened to it 44 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: and they tell us a story about nine to eleven 45 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: and the Trade Center in New York, United States, and 46 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: they said, tourists just hate that. The towers that the 47 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: World at centers and some of the the people you know, 48 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: from the outside of a village, like very far suburban areas, 49 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: they feel good. They like it. So they just collapsed 50 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: impedos trade Hunter. But some of the people they were 51 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: mad because their home and you know, they kill people 52 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: and that's very bad. We feel very bad. We went 53 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: to school in the morning and there was some shops 54 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: they had TVs. We just stopped by and we sat 55 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: at video. I was very little. I was in elementary school. 56 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: As our people just running around the streets, bloody injured. 57 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: People just jump out of that building. At that time, 58 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: I feel very bad and some of might cost me 59 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: and Prince, which we go together to the school and 60 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: almost people, you know, almost we cried, have you said 61 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: as a Homian, you know, and it's jumping very high, 62 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: very very high level of the apartments and the building, 63 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: and that was very bad moments as a Homian, you know, 64 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: far me. So I have to ask Tom, you were 65 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: fifteen when nine to eleven happened. What was your reaction 66 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: as a teenager? I was confused. It was an age 67 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: of innocence really a little bit of an age of 68 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: ignorance as well. I didn't know anybody wanted to do 69 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: America harm. I'd never heard of a terrorist organization, and 70 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,559 Speaker 1: so really just kind of confused at first, a little 71 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: bit scared, but I thought, wait, there's people out there 72 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: that don't like this country. And that was kind of 73 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: the first revelation of so Zach. I'm curious, when did 74 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: you see your first Americans. It was two thousand and 75 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: one when the Americans just come to Afghanistan and there 76 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: was they called fob Righte and they landed there and 77 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: before the fob right they called Tupchi base and the 78 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: Russian mated the down and when they landed, we saw 79 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: the helicopters. We just climbed to the mount and see 80 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: the helicopter landed and they were landed in the night 81 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: and people says something calm in the morning. In the 82 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: night and they landed there. Maybe helicopters planned and who 83 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: they are and all people were just wondering to see 84 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: who they are. In the morning, when I come out 85 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: of my home, we are just leaving the mount and 86 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: we have a stream in front of our house and 87 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: we just come out by the stream and watched the road. 88 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: We saw some conways with a humby and soldier on it. 89 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: That was very different to us because we didn't saw 90 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: people with a helmet bad arramara and different uniform because 91 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: in Taliban rule they had just regular Afghanic clothes on 92 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: it and gun and the stuff you know, the turbans. 93 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: And when saw that that was different, was very different. 94 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: When the Americans arrived, I gather that the school, the 95 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: whole education process really changed. How was it different for 96 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: you as a student once the Taliban was gone? Yeah, 97 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: that was very very different, oz par all Afghans because 98 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: when the Americans come, they built like very nice schools. 99 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: They had a cheer. Before in the Americans, we had 100 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: just a rag on the ground and we sat on it. 101 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: They had cheers, table and books, new books, like everything 102 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: was perfect. We like it and that we were happy 103 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: about that. They made it a school part, the kids part, 104 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: the girls. We had college. We have a university in 105 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: our province. That was very very a happy moment for 106 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: me to see about about these things about education. Well, 107 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: you were learning at school, you were also getting to 108 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: meet Americans. What was your relationship with American soldiers like 109 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: when you were young? When I was really young and 110 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: I was at school and that I tell you about 111 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: the pub that's next to our house. And at first 112 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: we scared from the American soldier, American troops because we 113 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: didn't see before people like that. And slowly we just 114 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: familiar with them and we make relationship. Go to the 115 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: pub and help them out carry bags like to the 116 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: oopies and whatever American needs day payoffs that they give 117 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: us money to go, get me some food, give me 118 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: whatever they need. We just help them out learning our 119 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: English and that was all help. We did it from 120 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: the beginning, which Americans just come to Afghanistan, Thomas, Well, 121 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: that's all happening. You were an unlikely candidate for the 122 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: Marine Corps. What was your journey to becoming a marine Like, Yeah, 123 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: I definitely didn't grow up, you know, watching g I, 124 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: Joe or hav any marine posters up on my wall. 125 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: I just knew that the conclusion of that day on 126 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: September eleven, that I was going to do something about that. 127 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: I didn't know what that would look like, and by 128 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: the end of high school I had felt that not 129 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: only a calling because of nine eleven, but also because 130 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: my mom, who she's a Chicago cop, single mom, all 131 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 1: her service and sacker fights to afford my sister and 132 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: I opportunities that she never had for herself. I thought, 133 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: you know, that's something that's pretty special, and it's something 134 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: that people have to pay into, and if everybody just 135 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: takes from that, you know, that's like a bank. Someone's 136 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: got to make a deposit. And I felt like I 137 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: had a civic duty to pay into that. And so 138 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: but I also it was important for me to go 139 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: to college, to be the first person in my family 140 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: to go to college, and so I did ROTC And 141 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: initially I thought maybe I'd be a lawyer, a Navy lawyer. 142 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: That quickly realized maybe the Navy wasn't for me, and 143 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: I found the standards of the Marine Corps. They attracted me. 144 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: That high standards a challenge of discipline, and that was 145 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: kind of the little nascent phase of how I started 146 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: my journey towards being a marine. What college did you 147 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: go to? Loyola and Chicago, Okay, which was a downtown school, right, yes, sir, Yeah, 148 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: I was a pretty famous one. I'm curious, given your 149 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: mother's background, she's a policeman in a tough city, why 150 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: is she so adamantly against you joining the military. Her 151 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: profession is a little bit misleading in that I don't 152 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: think it was what she grew up wanting to be. 153 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: I think she did it because she had me when 154 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: she was nineteen, and then she had my sister a 155 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: few years later, and so she had two kids defeat 156 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: and take care of, and she needed a secure job 157 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: with health insurance, and so, you know, I think she 158 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: was always kind of a more of a hippie type lady. 159 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: And again we didn't really have a family history of service, 160 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: and so she had two rules. Don't join the military 161 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: and don't get a motorcycle, which I broke both. That's wild. 162 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: So it just sort of a recruiting moment here. How 163 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: did you find the Marine Corps? And you look back 164 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: to what degree did the Marine Corps grow you as 165 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: a person. It's kind of discovery by chrial and error. 166 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: For me in the Marine Corps, it was I showed 167 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: up to the little boot camp week up at Great 168 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: Lakes Naval Base and I thought, man, those guys look sharp. 169 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: I want to be like those guys. And then I 170 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: got to the basic school where all officers do their 171 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: initial training, and I saw the infantry officers and I thought, man, 172 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: those guys look sharp, like that's the standard that I want. 173 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I was actually in my Infantry 174 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: officer course that I finally said, this was all speculative 175 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: and hypothesis. But during this Infantry officer course we're out 176 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: there in the wood shooting machine guns, running wild. I said, 177 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: this is actually what I've been called to do. And 178 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: I finally kind of felt home in a place where 179 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: I belonged. And so from there it was out of 180 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: the gates and running after M. Josser's course. So Zach 181 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: Well Thomas is discovering himself in the Marine Corps. Why 182 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: did you decide to help the Americans? Yeah, as I 183 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: tell you, I tried to learn English when the Americans 184 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: just come to Afghanistan, and when I saw them. They 185 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: distribute boats spins no boats to the key on the roads, 186 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: on the street. When they go to the patrols, and 187 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: when we go to the pubs, they give us pins, 188 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: they give us boats, they give us note book spar 189 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: the school. So that's why I decided to go and 190 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: help them out and also are rebuilding our country to 191 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: serve part my country, and I like to work with them, 192 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: and that's why I chose that way to go to 193 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: join marines or army. They used forces and bright Afghanistan 194 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: and also debate the tourism and the world especially So 195 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: while you're starting to work with the Americans, how did 196 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: you two meet and what was your first impression of 197 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: each other. Zac decided that the bid for success for 198 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: Afghanistan was to partner an Ali with the US, and 199 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: that's how he kind of started his process there to 200 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: being an interpreter, and we linked up on the deck 201 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: in Helman Province, and I had had a couple of 202 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: interpreters quit because it was so dangerous that they said, 203 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: we're not going to do this anymore. And then I 204 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: had a couple other interpreters who either didn't speak English 205 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: or didn't speak the local dial like a past two. 206 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: So I was in a tough spot and then I 207 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: see Zach show up on one of my patrols and 208 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: he looks fit, and he looks healthy and strong, and 209 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: his English was great, and right away we kind of 210 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: hit it off. And you know, initially it was he 211 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: is competent and proficient at his duties as an interpreter. 212 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: But quickly it became apparent that there was a lot 213 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: more to Zacht than just being able to translate. Well, Zach, 214 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: I mean, part of this interpret thing people forget is 215 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: I mean, you're out there in the middle of a 216 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: firefight and you're with a combat You're so what was 217 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: your first time in combat? Like you hadn't gone through 218 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: the basic course, you weren't trained to be in the 219 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: middle of firefights before this job. When I go to 220 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: Swinging and join three five, I spent seven months with 221 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: the army in a very dangerous place called Klonga, Wali 222 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: and Conor Province. We spent seven months as all just were, 223 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: and I takes and in bushes. I saw what's going 224 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: to happen in the world. When I joined and go 225 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: to my team perspelltoon to the hellman, I was pamiliar 226 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: with with the worstop you know, Afghanistan, our world and 227 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: the country that was work going on. And when I 228 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: joined it, I go to my person patrol. That was 229 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: kind of different place because these are dirt and a 230 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: lot of ideas. And my team helped me out and 231 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: they showed me everything what to do and the patrol 232 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: when I go, I go out and we just come 233 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: under the enemy in bush. I was just stuck. I 234 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: don't know what to do. But one of our medic 235 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: he just called me and just lay down. I was staying. 236 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: I was prosing like a proising body because that was 237 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: different place and it was very hard. But we want 238 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: to work and serve for our country. That's why I 239 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: exceived that at a race all me, Joe Thomas, when 240 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: here you are with a brand new guy who has 241 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: not been through any Marine Corps courses, but now he's 242 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: in effect a marine. He's right there in the middle 243 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: of your unit. He's in danger like everybody else. When 244 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: you look back on that, what's you're feeling and how 245 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: do you think about that period of watching him get 246 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: used to combat. Yeah, like he said, he you know, 247 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: he was initially frozen and often we would maneuver on 248 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: the enemy, and then we'd lose our interpreters. They would 249 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: be laying in hiding somewhere and we had to kind 250 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: of go back and clear and find them, and it 251 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: kind of became this liability. But Zach, I think he's 252 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: underselling himself. He pretty quickly adapted to how we fought 253 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: and how we maneuvered in that battle space, and he 254 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: was right there with us. And whether that was he 255 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: spoiled some Taliban ambushes by monitoring their radios and taking 256 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: personal action himself to stop that ambush from starting, or 257 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: when I would have casualties and he would pick up 258 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: the rifle of the casualty and old security. So he 259 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: quickly went from a transactional guy who translates to a 260 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: guy who's one of the Marines in the patoon. Hi, 261 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: this is nut. 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You can order an autograph copy of my 269 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: new book, Defeating Big Government Socialism right now at gingwishtree 270 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: sixty dot com slash book and we'll ship it directly 271 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: to you. Don't miss out on the special offer. It's 272 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: only available for a limited time. Go to gingwishtree sixty 273 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: dot com slash book to order your copy now. Order 274 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: it today at gingwishtree sixty dot com slash book. So Zach, 275 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: how did your life change after being an interpreter? And yeah, 276 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: it changed my life very quick. When I go to 277 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: the translator job because I have tradlators pone calls from 278 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: the enemy and they treading me every time, and they said, 279 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: they call me infidel because that's my work with Americans. 280 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: And they said, one hour we caught you and we 281 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: cut your head out. And that's make my life more 282 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: terrible and danger and I except everything, you know, as 283 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: I said before, part of my country for our partner 284 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: US troops and also part of the piece of whole word. 285 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: Let's change my life very quick. After you left the 286 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: first platoon, did you continue interpreting yeah, yeah, after I 287 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: lived first balltoon. It was December twenty eleven, after nine 288 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: months when my team Lives Dear deployment ended and I 289 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: come back to my province and I had a recommendation 290 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: later from my team and the pub which was next 291 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: to our house. They're hiring some labors and I go 292 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: there at that maybe if I didn't get an interpreter job, 293 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: I go to the labors. I work as a construction 294 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: But when I showed that later to one of the 295 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: boss who was in charge of that base, and he's 296 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: out a later and he said, oh, we really need 297 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: you your interpreter. You're not gonna go to the labors. 298 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: But they said, come on, they just dig me in 299 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 1: and take that recommendation later from me and they hired 300 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: me as a labor for the h n M interpreter 301 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: or labors. And then I started my new job into 302 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: the December or two years with the Special Forces or 303 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:30,479 Speaker 1: US Army and my problems so well, Zach was doing that, Thomas, 304 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: You went back to the US. What was that like 305 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: to go back to America. I always say, it's good 306 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: to come home. It's porcelain toilets, hotchhowers. You know my 307 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: eventually my beautiful wife Brito's out there in southern California. 308 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: It's a transition, of course, it's stark transition between home 309 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: and province and Orange County, California, where I was stationed. 310 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: But it's always good to come back, and you come 311 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,239 Speaker 1: back with a much deeper gratitude having gone through all 312 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: that diversity, and so there's a lot of reconciling and 313 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: making meaning that's happening concurrently, but it's always good to 314 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: be home. But I was back in Afghanistan twelve months 315 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: later for a nine month deployment. So you run back 316 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: to Pendleton, yes, sir, and then you went back to Afghanistan, Yes, sir. 317 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: Had things changed much? While you were going on my 318 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: patrol out to my new base, we got blown up 319 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: within about five minutes, I mean getting to the new base. 320 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: The Afghan Army soldiers had hid an iad and it 321 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: was very familiar, the IDs and the gunfire. But the 322 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: main difference was that we were really trying to hand 323 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: over the lead to the Afghan forces and so whereas 324 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: in twenty ten it was very much the marine unit 325 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: out front doing the fighting, we were trying to do 326 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: this advise and assists and put the Afghan army out 327 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 1: front to take ownership of the situation. And did you 328 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: find that it was working or not working? Mostly not working. 329 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: There were definitely some soldiers who were proud and competent 330 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: and were ready to fight for their country, but often 331 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: I found a overall kind of defeatist attitude that hey, 332 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: when you guys leave, the Taliban will just take over. 333 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: And to me, it was really confusing because we've been 334 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: training him for over a decade, we'd still trade him 335 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: for another decade. We had invested so much, and I, 336 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: you know, I just said, it doesn't have to be 337 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: that way. But many of these people didn't really have 338 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: a coherent belief that of a country of Afghanistan. So 339 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: when I said, hey, you want to you got to 340 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: fight for this country, it did not necessarily resonate with them. 341 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: So they more identified as tribal members than his Afghans, 342 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: most of the soldiers that I worked with, Yes, Zack, 343 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: in that context, when did you decide he wanted to 344 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: come to America? And why did you decide that? I 345 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: decided when I quit job when the American just withdraw 346 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: from our province. It was two thousand and fourteen, and 347 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: I already had the trade leader's calling boom calls. I 348 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: thought I gonna be killed. And it was two thousand 349 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: and sixteen when I found my teammate three to five 350 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: on social media and I keep contacting them, my Pine 351 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: Majors Tom, and I told him my life is in 352 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: risk here. The enemy not gonna leave me a life 353 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: with my opamily. They're gonna kill out. I had a 354 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: lot of poom calls, a lot of leaders from them, 355 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: and we just start trying to apply for our SIV 356 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: special immigration visa. But in two thousand and sixteen it 357 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: is still in paragrays. But my cases JUNI in two 358 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: thousand twenty one March, still I was just waiting for 359 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: a special visa. You know, as I say that, the 360 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: enemy didn't let me to be alive because I had 361 00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: done work with the US forces and there's why they 362 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: don't want me to be alive. And that's why I 363 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: decided to come to leave this to rescue my life 364 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: and my apamities and my kids. So you've decided them 365 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: to reach out to Thomas for help. Yeah, yeah, Thomas, 366 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: what did you think when Zach reaches out to you? I? Yes, 367 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: was it on Facebook. Yeah, he sends me a message 368 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: on Facebook and says, you know, so, I'm trying to 369 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: put together this package. I keep receiving these death threats, 370 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: I've been persecuted. I can't work anymore. Can you help? 371 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: And I looked at the criteria for the special Immigration 372 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: of Visa program and to me, he clearly met that criteria, 373 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: and I said, of course, happy to support. And so 374 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: we spent about twelve months applying putting that package together, 375 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 1: and this was about in twenty sixteen, and one thing 376 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,959 Speaker 1: after another rejection, but the communication was always very ambiguous, 377 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: like nothing ever specific or personal. I couldn't actually talk 378 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: to a person, just generic blanket denials. So it was 379 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: pretty tough. And after that first year we were both 380 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: pretty frustrated and kind of left it alone at that point. 381 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: Why do you think it was so difficult? I don't 382 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: want to be too speculative. I don't know if the 383 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: program was ever designed to succeed. If it was, it 384 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: didn't appear that way. It worked for a very select few, 385 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: but ultimately it probably wasn't. If I had to assume 386 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: it was not funded or staffed properly or adequately in 387 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: any degree, and you've got to think you've got twenty 388 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: years of war, You've got close to one hundred thousand 389 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: or one hundred thousand people who are eligible for this program. 390 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: Of course, you want to put some real scrutiny to 391 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: the program. You know, you don't want any Taliban or 392 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: a Kata to use that program, which they may have 393 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: attempted to do, and so understanding that there's got to 394 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: be some real rigor and this visa process. But ultimately, 395 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: when you look at the images of harmet Kaisai Airport, 396 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: you look at all those people who were eligible for 397 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: this program, and they were left outside the gate when 398 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: the thing began falling apart. Apparently there was a serious 399 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: effort to when it actually focused and targeted run Zack 400 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: and his family. How did that get organized? Me? How 401 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: do you put together a rescue team like that in 402 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: the middle of the chaos? So what's going on? I 403 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: had a friend who was a Marine officer pilot and 404 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: then he did an inner service transfer to the Air Force, 405 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: And when the President made the announcement that we would withdraw, 406 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: he said he was going to be flying recovery missions. 407 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: And I asked them, is anybody going to tell the 408 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: interpreters when to come to the airport or is anybody 409 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: going to go get them from their provinces. And he said, 410 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: if someone's not at the airport, they're not getting out 411 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: of here. Because I asked Zach, what happens if the 412 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: US lee's Afghanistan, what's going to happen to you? He said, 413 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: I will be dead. And so we had a real 414 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: sense of urgency starting in April, and by last summer 415 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: everybody was following as province after province was collapsing. So 416 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: we had to get Zach and his family from Kunar 417 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: to Kabul. There were some really brave marines standing the 418 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: post there, so he had second Beatalion first Marines and 419 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: first Batalion eighth Marines, and so I was able to 420 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: get a point of contact from a company commander and 421 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: marine captain who was holding the security at the gate. 422 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: And so our first two efforts to get Zack out, 423 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: I tried to run that through him and we just 424 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: had a lot of friction and a lot of bad luck. 425 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: And when Zach went to the gate the first time 426 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: to meet this captain with his family, that's when the 427 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: airport got rushed. That's where all those images of everybody 428 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: running on the tarmac and climbing onto the planes and 429 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: holding onto the wings. That's the same time Zach and 430 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: his family showed up the first time, and so the 431 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: Taliban the Marines started to shoot at the crowds to 432 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: kind of control the crowds, and his children saw people 433 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: getting machine gun and killed, you know, in their mediate vicinity. 434 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: That was our first attempt, which was a failure. Our 435 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: second attempt was a very similar episode. And then our 436 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: third attempt. It was my friend Jared, the Air Force 437 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 1: pilot who through his own initiative and took a lot 438 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: of risk. He'd jumped the gate, was able to locate 439 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: Zach and to see a people and it was extremely 440 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: harrowing and they're pressed up against the Taliban, and he 441 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: went in there and swooped that family up with some 442 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: help from other Air Force pjs. So, Zach, how did 443 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: it feel as you are getting into as I understand it, 444 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: you're finally allowed into the airport by a large American 445 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: with a tattoo on his forearm of an angel embracing 446 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: the world and the words that others may live. I mean, 447 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: that's almost like a movie scene. Yeah, it was very 448 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: vers moment. On that time. You know, when I get 449 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 1: there to the Fort Toupine people and contact him so 450 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: we can get out of here and rescue our lives, 451 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: my family life, and was very very worst moment in 452 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: my life. I didn't saw before, like collapsing a country 453 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: and that was very sad moment when I reminded it 454 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 1: make me cry. You know, when I get there and 455 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: some of the Seal team guys as Major Tom mentioned it, 456 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: the Jerry guys and the other his brain and his 457 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: teammate come in to pick up in and they call 458 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: me Zach from the rooftop. And that was very happy 459 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: moment for me when I heard Zach from them and 460 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: like we were rescued, and I get more happier. And 461 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: then they take us in and pause, they're gonna you 462 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: guys gonna go to the plan and you applied this 463 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: to cut her. You're gonna stay here for a little 464 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: while and go to us. I was a very happy 465 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: moment for me in my life. As I understand that 466 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: you know you and your family settled near cousins in 467 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: San Antonio, Yes, sir, yes, San Antonio. But I also 468 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: believe that your most recent visa application was rejected. Yes, sir, 469 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: so what are your circumstances right now? I cannot do 470 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: nothing about it. This is all belongs to the used government, 471 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: and we whope to use government to help us out. 472 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: So we sacrifice ourself or family. We lost our country. 473 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: We cannot go there. If we are go back there, 474 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: my family and meet not gonna be alive. I want 475 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: the President and all the United States government to help 476 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: us out or give us the citizen sheep, or keep 477 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: us here we keep rescue ourself and stay here in 478 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: the United States. Thomas, not to put you on the spot, 479 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: but how do you think through the current situation where 480 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: you can have a million people come in illegally, but 481 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: somebody who has literally risked our lives trying to help 482 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: America keeps getting stiffed by the State Department. Maybe I'm 483 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: missing something. Just seems to me that the gap in 484 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: those two experiences is astonishing. I'm not gonna venture to 485 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: juxtapose those two experiences. What we can talk about specifically 486 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: is the special immigration Visa. It's very clear what the 487 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: eligibility criteria is, and Zach overwhelmingly meets that criteria. It's 488 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: not ambiguous, it's black and white. It's a contract, and 489 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: undoubtedly Zach has upheld his end of that bargain. We 490 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: have all the supporting documents to represent that and depict that, 491 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: and we as an have to keep our promises. When 492 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: we sign a contract with somebody who's risks of their 493 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: life to support us, we've got to honor that contract. 494 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: So does anybody at stake give you any explanation of 495 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: if it's that clear and that clearly meets it, why 496 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: are they turning it down? You receive again a very 497 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: general rejection letter that says that we need to see 498 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: more documentation, and so we provide the supplement documentation that 499 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: we think they're referring to. We appealed last March after 500 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: the last rejection and haven't heard anything since. Has any 501 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: member of Congress taken up this cause. Bipartisan support from 502 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: both parties, it was really incredible Center Tom Cotton, Durban, 503 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you name it. Congressmen from both sides of 504 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: the aisle really throw their weight behind And that's why 505 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: it was these false summits, because when you see these 506 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: senior members of Congress supporting this, you think, okay, we're 507 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: going to get somewhere with this. And then it seemed 508 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: that even these people in the highest level of government 509 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: couldn't move the needle on this. Now. It's astonishing. The 510 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: bureaucracy owns its own territorium is very hard to move. Listen, 511 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: Tom and Zach, I want to thank you for joining me. 512 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: I hope everybody who's heard this will call and let 513 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: their congressman know that not just Zach, but a number 514 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: of people who are faithful supporters of America, who we 515 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: owe an opportunity to be in America because we know 516 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: that they were very pro American, actively pro American, risk 517 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: their lives for America. And if you have any doubt 518 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: about it, you can read Tom and Zach's new book, 519 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: Always Faithful, a story of the War in Afghanistan, the 520 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: Fall of Cobble, and the unshakable bond between a Marine 521 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: and an interpreter. It's a compelling memoir. It's an intensely personal, 522 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: ground level account of the war in Afghanistan as we 523 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: approached the first anniversary of the US withdrawal, and I 524 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: want to thank the two of you for serving the 525 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: cause of freedom, and I want to thank you for 526 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: sharing with the world this important book. And we'll do 527 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: all weekend to be helpful. Thank you, sir, Thank you. 528 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guests Major Tom Schumann and Zanula 529 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: zach Zaki. You can get a link to buy their 530 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: new book, Always Faithful on our show page at newtsworld 531 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: dot com. Newts World is produced by Gingwich three sixty 532 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Garnsey Sloan, our producer 533 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: is Rebecca Howell, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The 534 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special 535 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: thanks the team at Gingridge three sixty. If you've been 536 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and 537 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: both rate us with five stars and give us a 538 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, 539 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: listeners of news World can sign up for my three 540 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: free weekly columns at Gingwich free sixty dot com slash newsletter. 541 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gingrich. This is news World.