Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello and
Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Toronto
Speaker 1: named Jamie Loftus, and we talk about the representation of
Speaker 1: women in films. Yeah, what if this started twenty five
Speaker 1: years from now and we were reflecting on how we
Speaker 1: used to do the Bechdel Cast and then we always
Speaker 1: promised that we're going to continue doing to come back
Speaker 1: and come back any time you discourse to be had,
Speaker 1: that we would up and start doing it. Jamie, let's
Speaker 1: make that pact right now. Truth. Truth? Are you happy? No? Sam?
Speaker 1: All right, I guess we're done here. Uh. This is
Speaker 1: our funniest movie podcast. We use the Bechdel Test as
Speaker 1: our jumping out point for discussion. Beckel Tests, I'm times
Speaker 1: called the Bechtel Wallace test is a media metric invented
Speaker 1: by cartoonist Alison Bechdel that requires that there be two
Speaker 1: female identifying characters in a piece of media with names
Speaker 1: that talk to each other about something other than a
Speaker 1: man for more than two lines of dialogue? Can it
Speaker 1: be done? Sometimes? Sometimes in this movie, yeah, quite a bit.
Speaker 1: I was. I thought you were about to be like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't. I was like, oh my god. I was like,
Speaker 1: wait a second, did we see the same movie? O, Well,
Speaker 1: you're spoiling it at the top. But I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: I still think that it's really funny whenever someone is like,
Speaker 1: so do you just talk about the Becktel test? Like
Speaker 1: what would that conversation even sound for an hour and
Speaker 1: a half, which is argue with each other like one
Speaker 1: text pro when when it's an indisputable thing through every
Speaker 1: single line of dialogue in the movie, and be like
Speaker 1: does that one pass? No? It doesn't because Michael Shannon
Speaker 1: said it. Moving on, Like it's just like what I
Speaker 1: think I'm getting into Michael Shannon. Oh well not Live's
Speaker 1: Out is a great film. He's good in it. I
Speaker 1: didn't really confused him with many other Michaels And you
Speaker 1: can't blame me, but I think I'm getting into Michael Shannon.
Speaker 1: It does not. But I'm surprised you weren't into him
Speaker 1: starting with Shape of Water. I know, well, because I
Speaker 1: kept confusing him with Michael Stolberg because it's too close,
Speaker 1: too close to name too much Michael representation in that movie.
Speaker 1: Just know from me. So yeah, this is the best.
Speaker 1: And as always, we have a wonderful guest with us,
Speaker 1: certainly today. She's one of my dearest friends. She's a photographer, extraordinary,
Speaker 1: she's a circus historian. She's the absolute best. It's Callie Bickerstaff.
Speaker 1: Welcome to you. Thanks for having me. Well, we're bringing
Speaker 1: We're doing a movie that you were very very passionate
Speaker 1: about recommending. And I was like, well, just come on
Speaker 1: and talk about it because you're like, when are you
Speaker 1: going to do it? Now? In an episode? So have
Speaker 1: all of our fans everyone. I did not know that
Speaker 1: this thing existed and I will disappoint and the website. So, Kelly,
Speaker 1: what's your history with now? And I think I watched
Speaker 1: in the theaters and I think, and I told you
Speaker 1: this that I remember watching it and Demi Moore was
Speaker 1: smoking and I was like, oh that is cool, and
Speaker 1: rewatching it, I was like, I definitely started smoking because
Speaker 1: of this, which is influential, Oh my god, but cool
Speaker 1: at the time. Um, but yeah, I think to me
Speaker 1: it seemed like like the sand Lot, stand by me,
Speaker 1: merge for ladies. I don't know, but it was a
Speaker 1: sweet teenage film for me. I think it's cute. I mean,
Speaker 1: it has its moments, and it has it's like camaraderie thing.
Speaker 1: There's personality for everyone in there, I think. And problematic parts.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, we'll talk about what what some some be
Speaker 1: phrased Brent and also is not credited in the movie.
Speaker 1: I was. I watched it all the way through with
Speaker 1: the credits. I paused because, like how because I was
Speaker 1: playing this game I play with myself sometimes called how
Speaker 1: high in the credits is Brendan Fraser because depending on
Speaker 1: the year, it really fluctuates, right, And in this movie
Speaker 1: he's not credited at all. Incredible. I know, Caitlyn, what's
Speaker 1: your history? And now? And then? I grew up with
Speaker 1: this movie, although I will say that I have not
Speaker 1: seen it in probably twenty or more years, not unlike
Speaker 1: the span of time between when we see them as
Speaker 1: girls and when we see them as adults, you're now
Speaker 1: and then ing now and then exactly that is true.
Speaker 1: Um so I hadn't rewatched it, probably since I was
Speaker 1: around the age of the characters, which is twelve, But
Speaker 1: Prior to that, it wasn't a movie that we ever
Speaker 1: had like on VHS at at my house or anything.
Speaker 1: But it is a huge, like girls sleepover staple movie.
Speaker 1: So I would go to sleepovers and it would be
Speaker 1: on all the time. So I would watch this movie
Speaker 1: often at sleepovers and I always rather enjoyed it. But again,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in many, many years. What's your history, Jamie.
Speaker 1: I think this is one of those weird movies that
Speaker 1: it came out. It's like our age gap was not large,
Speaker 1: but it I did not know this movie existed until
Speaker 1: Callie told me it was on Netflix. I didn't know
Speaker 1: that it existed. I told I did not know it
Speaker 1: was the genre of movie it was. I don't know
Speaker 1: who was in it, Yeah I was. I mean I
Speaker 1: was like two when it came out, so I didn't
Speaker 1: see it. It just missed me. So I watched it
Speaker 1: to prepare for this episode. And you know, I love
Speaker 1: female representation. This is I feel bad because I like,
Speaker 1: I did the same thing on the The Little Woman
Speaker 1: episode and you're like, it's wonderful coming of age. I
Speaker 1: love it, but coming of age for anyone of any gender,
Speaker 1: it can be kind of boring, not always the most
Speaker 1: fun thing to watch, especially when like this group of
Speaker 1: young women, they don't have actual I mean well, I
Speaker 1: would say maybe one of them has problems that are significant,
Speaker 1: but most of them are like, oh no, like it's
Speaker 1: just very You're like, oh, okay, they're going to be fine,
Speaker 1: and then we see that, guess what. They're fine. They're fine,
Speaker 1: They're fine, everyone's fine. Sure, I mean the stakes, not
Speaker 1: the stakes, but they rarely are incoming of age stories.
Speaker 1: I think that just comes with the territory. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: not my genre, I see, but yeah, so my history
Speaker 1: is I watched it. Good great, good history. But this
Speaker 1: is a widely beloved movie. I would say one of
Speaker 1: our top requests of all time. We've gotten this request
Speaker 1: more frequently than almost any movie. So let's dive in,
Speaker 1: shall we. Let's do it. I've got the recap. Here.
Speaker 1: We meet the four main characters, who are Roberta. She's
Speaker 1: played by Christina Ricci as a youth and by Rosie
Speaker 1: O'Donnell as an adult. Teeny is Thora Birch and Melanie Griffiths.
Speaker 1: Samantha is Gabby Hoffman and Demi Moore, and Chrissie is
Speaker 1: Ashley asketon More and Rita Wilson. It's crazy that everyone
Speaker 1: like hitters, hitters, hitters in the task and you couldn't
Speaker 1: have known that the child stars we're here there they were.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, every person in this movie delivers a
Speaker 1: pretty phenomenal performance. I would say, especially Brendan Fresher. I
Speaker 1: could go on about that for hours. There's so many
Speaker 1: What is what is this trope of? Because we just
Speaker 1: covered it in Home Alone as well of like, you
Speaker 1: know that neighbor that you get bad energy from who's
Speaker 1: terrifying to you, you should talk to them. I'm like,
Speaker 1: what the kind of lesson is that? I know what
Speaker 1: they're going for, but it could lead to death potentially. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the it's the Boo Radley trope. It is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so with this movie it is present, I know, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want to discourage people from talking
Speaker 1: to their elders people and and become being empathetic and
Speaker 1: but in the same token, there is actually do talk
Speaker 1: to strangers, especially if they are going to save your life.
Speaker 1: I also, what do they call the neighbor in this movie?
Speaker 1: Crazy pete? Okay, I think he killed his family. That's
Speaker 1: my hottest. I think that dear Johnny is the new
Speaker 1: his wife in terms of gravestone lad absolutely. And I
Speaker 1: think that Pete killed his family and feels really bad.
Speaker 1: I did have that thought as well. Really like the
Speaker 1: way he's presented. I mean, he has a heroic moment
Speaker 1: he saves Christina Ricchie from the gutter. It's y. I
Speaker 1: also struggled with that because they look very similar as children.
Speaker 1: I think it killed his family for sure, not he's
Speaker 1: living with the I'm like, what about okay? It makes
Speaker 1: it sound like he was a suspect in the murder
Speaker 1: because he says to them, oh, I don't like seeing
Speaker 1: people and people don't like seeing me. I was like,
Speaker 1: because you went to trial, Like, I think that maybe
Speaker 1: they should have looked at more micro fusion figured out
Speaker 1: like was he a top suspect for this because they
Speaker 1: don't say who killed They don't they don't ever find
Speaker 1: out who killed. But but he was the one to
Speaker 1: discover the bodies. And I don't remember what movie it
Speaker 1: is that I just saw, and it actually might be
Speaker 1: nives out that the character says you always look at
Speaker 1: the person who found the body as a suspect. Is
Speaker 1: that I think it's that in like others an other,
Speaker 1: but like I was thinking of the staircase because I
Speaker 1: was always thinking about the staircase. Yeah, the nineteen forties
Speaker 1: way easier to cover up a murder. Also, and he's
Speaker 1: and when he was like I shouldn't have been at
Speaker 1: that bar, I was like, oh, you killed your family
Speaker 1: in a drunken frenzy. And Melanie Griffith is sending him
Speaker 1: money for years, this murderer. That is a pretty hot take.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Anyway, So what is the movie about?
Speaker 1: So um, We first see these characters as girls in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy and Shelby, Indiana. They're best friends. We see
Speaker 1: them playing Red Rover. Then we cut to them as adults.
Speaker 1: They are getting together because they had made a pact
Speaker 1: that whenever they needed each other, they would be there
Speaker 1: for each other. And right now Christie needs them to
Speaker 1: be around because she is about to have a baby.
Speaker 1: So we see um teeny. That is again Melanie Griffith,
Speaker 1: she is a famous actress. Uh Roberta is Rosie o'donnald
Speaker 1: she's an o b g y n. And Samantha Demimour
Speaker 1: is a sci fi novelist and also the narrator of
Speaker 1: the movie. So then we cut back to them in
Speaker 1: the summer of nineteen seventy when they are twelve. We
Speaker 1: get little glimpses of their lives, like Samantha's parents are
Speaker 1: fighting a lot, and then her dad will eventually leave.
Speaker 1: Roberta doesn't like how big her boobs are getting, so
Speaker 1: she tapes them down. Um. She lives with her dad
Speaker 1: and brothers because her mom died when she was four. Um.
Speaker 1: Tina is the only child. She has rich parents who
Speaker 1: are never around. She likes to dress up and be glamorous,
Speaker 1: and Chrissie, whose mom is played by Bonnie Hunt, comes
Speaker 1: in and gives her the sex talk, but she uses
Speaker 1: very coded language about flowers and watering cans. Um. Then
Speaker 1: we meet the Wormers, this group of den This is
Speaker 1: the same year that Casper comes out, which is another
Speaker 1: romance between Devin Sawa and Casting Lazy Casting Alert Senior rules. Yes,
Speaker 1: I like her a lot, but they are this group
Speaker 1: of I think brothers who tease and torment the girls.
Speaker 1: They're throwing water balloons full of green jello at them.
Speaker 1: The leader is Scott Devin Sawa and the girls they're
Speaker 1: saving up money to buy a treehouse. They're twenty three
Speaker 1: dollars away. We see them at a diner reading Cosmo.
Speaker 1: Their server is will Adine Janine Garoffalo. Great bizarre. We're like, yep,
Speaker 1: the two scenes feels about right for this character. What
Speaker 1: is going on? So then the girls are like, let's
Speaker 1: do a seance. They go to the cemetery. They see
Speaker 1: the grave of Dear Johnny or Dear Johnny Johnny his
Speaker 1: wife Dear Johnny large font, large large font. Because we
Speaker 1: find out the character's real name, the boy's real name,
Speaker 1: which is Jonathan Sims, but that is not what's on
Speaker 1: his gravestone. On his gravestone says dear Johnny all caps.
Speaker 1: And this I will say predates the rock by a year.
Speaker 1: So true. Idea was literally Michael Bay saw now and
Speaker 1: then and stole There's no way Michael based on now
Speaker 1: and then. He was like, more than one woman's in
Speaker 1: it and she's clothed, skipping it like there's no way
Speaker 1: he saw it. But I like this theory. Dear Johnny.
Speaker 1: It's such a like prop tub stone. Really yeah, um,
Speaker 1: So dear Johnny died when he was a child in
Speaker 1: the nineteen forties, and they think they've conjured up his spirit.
Speaker 1: I also believed that they had conjured up his spirit.
Speaker 1: It was pretty because like lightning strikes a nearby tree
Speaker 1: and in the craft energy from it whend is blowing.
Speaker 1: It's very was a cop out. My guess was that
Speaker 1: he came later that night after they had left, and
Speaker 1: then bro the They were both right, I think, so
Speaker 1: I thought there was really a magic a foot, and
Speaker 1: I was disappointed when it was revealed. They're like, anyways,
Speaker 1: magic isn't real. Fast forward twenty five years. You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's uh, that's so disappointing. Um. And then they also
Speaker 1: see Crazy Pete as they call him, and he's riding
Speaker 1: around on his bicycle and they freak out and they
Speaker 1: run away. And then I think it's later that night
Speaker 1: or maybe the following night, but what seems like a
Speaker 1: ghostly presence comes into Samantha's room, so she rounds up
Speaker 1: the girls and they go back to the cemetery, and
Speaker 1: this is when they find out that dear Johnny's grave
Speaker 1: has been smashed, and they think that he's definitely out
Speaker 1: and about just hanging around town. Um, how as ghosts do,
Speaker 1: and they want to learn more about dear Johnny's death,
Speaker 1: but they have to ride their bikes to the nearby
Speaker 1: town of Greenfield to go through their old newspaper archives.
Speaker 1: On the way, they stopped for some lunch. They play
Speaker 1: truth or Dare They talk of sex. Chrissie again doesn't
Speaker 1: really know how sex works, because she's talking about flowers
Speaker 1: and watering cants and they kind of they laugh at her.
Speaker 1: It's cute. Yeah. Then a bird ships on Chrissie's head,
Speaker 1: so they go to a pond to wash it off,
Speaker 1: and they go swimming. Roberta fakes her death as a joke.
Speaker 1: Chrissie gets really mad at her and punches her in
Speaker 1: the face. There's a lot of punching. I can't wait
Speaker 1: to talk about all the punching, and I'm not even kidding.
Speaker 1: And then they see the wormer's skinny dipping nearby, so
Speaker 1: they steal their clothes as payback from the jellow attack.
Speaker 1: They finally make their way to the library. They go
Speaker 1: through the old newspapers. Roberta sees a clipping about her
Speaker 1: mother's car accident that caused her death and discovers that
Speaker 1: it was more painful and prolonged than her dad had
Speaker 1: led her to believe so sad because he she is
Speaker 1: amazing in those scenes too. It's like, how old did
Speaker 1: she She's like eleven and giving that kind of I
Speaker 1: think she's actually like fifteen when he was filmed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a little bit older than her character. I might
Speaker 1: be a little off, but I think she's older four Okay.
Speaker 1: And then they do find something about Jonathan Simms in
Speaker 1: the newspapers, but a lot of the pages have been
Speaker 1: torn out Jonathan Sims do you mean? And so they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: someone wanted to keep this information a secret. On their
Speaker 1: way home from the library, they run into Brendan Fraser,
Speaker 1: who is a Vietnam War event. Scene is a lot.
Speaker 1: It's a lot like it's going for something, and then
Speaker 1: it takes You're just like, don't give them cigarettes. What
Speaker 1: do you do it? He's a hippie that he starts
Speaker 1: smoking cigarette. Yeah. I was like, yeah, if he's doing it,
Speaker 1: Demi Moore is doing it, I'm gonna do it bad.
Speaker 1: That's bad. So they're still curious about Dear Johnny, Dear Johnny. Um.
Speaker 1: So they go to will A Dean who is witchy,
Speaker 1: and she does a tarot reading and the result of
Speaker 1: which implied that dear Johnny was murdered. Then there's the
Speaker 1: softball game. I want to talk all about this scene.
Speaker 1: There's more punching. Girls are punching some more and totally
Speaker 1: it's like everything that I didn't like about the sand lot,
Speaker 1: the opposite happens. It's great. It's very satisfying. Child baseball scene. Yes, um.
Speaker 1: And then Samith and Teeny have a heart to heart
Speaker 1: in their new tree house, which they now have. We
Speaker 1: didnt see them getting it, but they made Yeah. And
Speaker 1: then Teeny gives Samantha a friendship bracelet, but on their
Speaker 1: ride home, it falls off and goes down a storm drain,
Speaker 1: and this is when Samantha goes into the sewer to
Speaker 1: retrieve it, but she gets stuck because it starts raining
Speaker 1: really hard. But luckily, crazy Pete shows up and saves her.
Speaker 1: Uh and then they interact with him a little bit.
Speaker 1: This is kind of a side note, but the tree
Speaker 1: house they wanted to buy was a hundred dollars adjusted
Speaker 1: for inflation. That is an eight hundred fifty dollar treehouse
Speaker 1: that they were saving up for. No wonder it took
Speaker 1: so long, yeah, eight hundred. I mean it was a
Speaker 1: nice treehouse. God, that's rent. Yeah, anyways, we should all
Speaker 1: live in a treehouse. You don't need to pay a
Speaker 1: super nice treehouse. I would that they brought an infant
Speaker 1: into that treehouse and it's very started. It's still there
Speaker 1: twenty five years later. How did they get that baby
Speaker 1: up there? How did they do that? How did they
Speaker 1: get the treehouse up there? Also? That would have had
Speaker 1: been like a crane or something, and it must have
Speaker 1: taken days. Yeah, I don't know where parents involved. We
Speaker 1: don't know. We skipped that entire involved in this movie.
Speaker 1: Where aren't parents there there occasionally, but parents are not
Speaker 1: painted in a very good light in this movie in general.
Speaker 1: That is kind of what you don't mind. So, speaking
Speaker 1: of parents, we see the girl's going to Samantha's grandmother's
Speaker 1: house to look through her a gambling Chlorus Leachman. She
Speaker 1: loves poker, and she wears a wild hairpiece. She that's
Speaker 1: her classic wighead. I love it. That scene was both
Speaker 1: not necessary and really fun. I don't think anything happens
Speaker 1: in that scene really. She's like, oh well, she sort
Speaker 1: of says like, oh, I know about dear Johnny, but
Speaker 1: I can't tell you about it anyways, gotta go, and
Speaker 1: that's basically but then they sneak into the sneak into
Speaker 1: the attict and then find out more information about dear Johnny,
Speaker 1: which is that he and his mother had indeed been
Speaker 1: murdered and they were just the bodies were discovered by
Speaker 1: Jonathan's father, Peter sa Um, but we don't make the
Speaker 1: connection quite down my spot. And then Roberta, who had
Speaker 1: been been like keeping the grief about her mother, kind
Speaker 1: of bottled up. Let's it all out and starts crying
Speaker 1: another great perform Samantha's Grandma's mirror. Oh yeah, that's chlorus.
Speaker 1: Lea is going to find that, like, probably not that day,
Speaker 1: but at some point, And I would be scared if
Speaker 1: I were her, I wouldn't guess it was Christina Ricci.
Speaker 1: She's like, how did this mirror get shattered? Ghosts, ghost
Speaker 1: heavy ghost, dear Johnny Johnny um. And this is when
Speaker 1: they make the pact that they will always be there
Speaker 1: for each other. It's nice, it is nice. And then
Speaker 1: they have another sance to put dear Johnny back to rest,
Speaker 1: and then we see like his headstone is floating towards them,
Speaker 1: but it turns out it's just the graveyard worker installing
Speaker 1: the new headstone after he had knocked it over with
Speaker 1: his tractor. And then the girls leave um, but Samantha
Speaker 1: see's crazy. Pete goes back in and talks to him,
Speaker 1: and then she realizes that he is Peter Sims, the
Speaker 1: father of Dear Johnny. Uh. And he's always in the
Speaker 1: cemetery because he's like paying his respects to his family
Speaker 1: that he may remain him. I think he's kind of
Speaker 1: like kind of getting off on it a little bit
Speaker 1: revisiting and he's like, it's crazy. He goes there every night,
Speaker 1: like crazy, I got away with that. It just I can't,
Speaker 1: Dear Johnny, I can't believe that I got away with it.
Speaker 1: Also never visiting his wife's grave stuff where his wife,
Speaker 1: his wife, just Dear Johnny there. And then we cut
Speaker 1: to the present with the adults and Christie's and labor.
Speaker 1: They go to the hospital she has the baby, and
Speaker 1: then afterwards they're all in the tree house and they're
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, whether or not they're happy with
Speaker 1: their lives. They're talking about the struggles that they're okay.
Speaker 1: The ending questions, the series of questions is fascinating because
Speaker 1: we find out we asked Demi Moore if she's happy,
Speaker 1: she's she's not. We ask Rita will Us, and she's happy.
Speaker 1: She is. We asked Rosie O'Donnell how big her boobs are?
Speaker 1: And she doesn't answer. We asked Melanie Griffith, nothing. She
Speaker 1: tells us she has a boob job. That's the check
Speaker 1: in five years later, good round up and you're like sure, yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I guess we know what characters we were supposed to
Speaker 1: care about the I was surprised that we didn't like
Speaker 1: revisit Rosie o'donnald's character because in the in the flashbacks,
Speaker 1: or I mean, most of the movie is the flashback,
Speaker 1: but like, I feel like we spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time with her character as a kid and then don't
Speaker 1: really have any interest in her as an adult. Like
Speaker 1: they're just sort of like, yeah, she's dating someone and
Speaker 1: she's happy. How big are her boobs? Though? And you're like, what,
Speaker 1: here's my guests. Um. I learned through my research that
Speaker 1: her character was written as an out lesbian, but it
Speaker 1: didn't test well with audiences, So I'm guessing any part
Speaker 1: about that was cut with there were other scenes. This
Speaker 1: is like part speculation but if there were other scenes
Speaker 1: where we got to know her more as an adult,
Speaker 1: they may have been cut for that reason. That's such
Speaker 1: a bummer I found. I found an interview with the
Speaker 1: writer I'm Marlene King a k A mss pretty Little
Speaker 1: Liars herself saying stuff to that effect, and it's like
Speaker 1: a bummer. I mean, I hope that those scenes existed,
Speaker 1: and it kind of and not including it kind of
Speaker 1: makes some of the coding that they try to do
Speaker 1: with varying degrees of success, I think ring in this
Speaker 1: kind of bizarre way because then you flash forward and
Speaker 1: they're like, she's with someone. Don't worry about it, bigary boobs,
Speaker 1: Okay bye. Is she a nurse in the future, Um No,
Speaker 1: she's an okay, because I was just like, should she
Speaker 1: be delivering the baby? Okay? She she's a doctor. That's legal.
Speaker 1: That's good, friends, you can do it. It's funny. Very
Speaker 1: was that a hospital? I don't know. It was like
Speaker 1: it didn't really look like right. It looks kind of
Speaker 1: like ahow. Also, final note on the birth scene. I
Speaker 1: didn't need to see that realistic of a freshly born baby.
Speaker 1: It was it was very bloody and blood Rosie o'donald
Speaker 1: also covered in blood. I know that that's what it is,
Speaker 1: but I watched movies for a reason. Do not see
Speaker 1: bloody babies. I like to see babies born fresh and
Speaker 1: fresh at three months old. Do you ever wonder gives
Speaker 1: their baby for that role and it's like cover it
Speaker 1: And I feel like it's usually the production. I feel
Speaker 1: like it's like a production baby. Oftentimes two weeks old baby.
Speaker 1: Cover it up. You know what we should do? Cover
Speaker 1: it in fake blood. Were almost out breathe and it's
Speaker 1: freezing on that set. You know, Just hand it to Rita.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I would love to be handed to
Speaker 1: Rita Wilson as an adult. I have that story old
Speaker 1: life that's um anyway, So that they do their truth
Speaker 1: or dearek questions and then they make an other packed
Speaker 1: to see more of each other, and then they play
Speaker 1: red Rover with some neighborhood kids, which is weird. Wonder
Speaker 1: the baby, where's the baby at? Is it with that daddy? That? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was there for because he's a dentist. But anyway,
Speaker 1: that's how that's the movie. Let's take a quick break
Speaker 1: and then we'll be right back. We're back We're back.
Speaker 1: As much as I was saying that this movie was
Speaker 1: a little boring to me, it reminds me a lot.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting. It seems like it is pulling
Speaker 1: from movies that existed at that time. And you can
Speaker 1: also see kind of its lineage as it goes down,
Speaker 1: because there were a lot of parts of this movie
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants stealing
Speaker 1: from now and then at this moment where like a
Speaker 1: lot of the scenes where it's the four of them
Speaker 1: together in a secret location making a packed You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I see. The production team behind this movie is pretty cool,
Speaker 1: pretty legendary. Directed by a woman, famous director, Leslie Lincoln Gladder,
Speaker 1: who is directed I think primarily in TV, but she's
Speaker 1: directed everything she's did, directing on Twin Peaks. She is
Speaker 1: most famous, I think for Homeland, but she directed episodes
Speaker 1: of Gilmore Girl. She did greg she did West Wang,
Speaker 1: she did Weeds, she did True Blood, she did Pretty
Speaker 1: Little Liars because I'm Marilyn King their Friends, she did
Speaker 1: a ton of I mean, she's like a legendary director
Speaker 1: who is still working all the time. Um, And it's
Speaker 1: written by I'm Marline King who her actual names, I know,
Speaker 1: Marlene King. I think this was her big break at
Speaker 1: the time. This was her first screenplay that was produced,
Speaker 1: and I think now she's most famous for Pretty Little Liars,
Speaker 1: which is really funny because it is like so like
Speaker 1: there was something and now and Then where I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm Marilyne King loves writing scenes where four age or
Speaker 1: four girls are in a graveyard planning something, because that's
Speaker 1: every scene in Little Liars for ten years. But Little Liars,
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily know that it's a feminist text, but
Speaker 1: I have seen every episode. I have not seen a
Speaker 1: single episode. You can guess what it's like. It's so fa,
Speaker 1: I mean, like this is I had no idea that
Speaker 1: this was written by her, and I've gone to my head.
Speaker 1: Never would guess that Pretty Little Liars and Now and
Speaker 1: Then we're written by one and the same other than
Speaker 1: if I saw pound for pound the graveyard scenes. But
Speaker 1: Pretty Little Liars are usually burying a teacher's body, like
Speaker 1: they're not. It sounds like a good show. Yeah, everything
Speaker 1: that now and that Now and Then girls want to
Speaker 1: happen the prilli Little Liars do every single week. Okay,
Speaker 1: they're killing people, they're conjuring people from the dead, they're
Speaker 1: doing everything. Wow. Okay yeah. And then also the credited
Speaker 1: producers are mostly women. It's also I Marlene King as
Speaker 1: well as done more for Todd and Suzanne Todd and
Speaker 1: then Eric McLeod yeah, man, the token token male, token producer. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's largely women behind the scenes in the
Speaker 1: major creative roles in this movie. So that's something we
Speaker 1: do not see very often at all. Yes, so we
Speaker 1: love that and it shows. It shows in the way
Speaker 1: that the movie is written and frames. I mean there
Speaker 1: it was not a female cinematographer I checked. But the
Speaker 1: way it's directed is very respectful to its subjects, and
Speaker 1: the way it's written is very respectful to its subjects
Speaker 1: to Okay, So well, there's a lot to talk about.
Speaker 1: As per usual, I wanted to start by just kind
Speaker 1: of talking about how this is one of very few
Speaker 1: stories we get to see about young girls, a group
Speaker 1: of young girls having fun and living life, often being
Speaker 1: like tween girls. Uh, It's really not something that's been
Speaker 1: explored very much. There are a fair number of like
Speaker 1: coming of age stories about women, but they're usually a
Speaker 1: little bit older, and I think a lot of the time,
Speaker 1: and this movie sort of includes this but doesn't really
Speaker 1: harp on it too much. But I feel like a
Speaker 1: lot of times you see movies about young girls, it
Speaker 1: is focused specifically on like an extreme trauma and that
Speaker 1: like young girls are not often allowed to just be,
Speaker 1: like you said, like having fun and like living life,
Speaker 1: and there's problems there always are, but like I feel
Speaker 1: like there, yeah, there is a large amount of teen
Speaker 1: girl movies where it's strictly focused on, especially of this age,
Speaker 1: like twelve thirteen, because once you get to teenagers, then
Speaker 1: it's all about sex and they always objectified a lot.
Speaker 1: But in this age, I feel like sometimes you vote
Speaker 1: just have like an extreme trauma harped on the entire
Speaker 1: I remember the movie thirteen Stable. I mean like movies
Speaker 1: like that where it was like, oh my god, where
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, young girls, the world is out to
Speaker 1: kill you. And so it is like it is kind
Speaker 1: of nice to just see girls growing up being people.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, they're turning into who they want to
Speaker 1: be or they're finding themselves. So it's like this weird
Speaker 1: in between time where they're like it seems like they're
Speaker 1: friends because of their location they're all neighbors, and then
Speaker 1: they're all like kind of branching out and finding what
Speaker 1: they like and who they are. And it's nice, it's cute.
Speaker 1: I think it's sweet because it's also a very relatable,
Speaker 1: realistic experience for a lot of people, for very different characters.
Speaker 1: My only confusion the whole movie was that I kept
Speaker 1: mixing up Christina Richie and Gabby Hoffman and it got
Speaker 1: hard for me. I might do it during the podcast too.
Speaker 1: That's okay, I'll be here to set everything straight, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Um. But I just wanted to kind
Speaker 1: of talk a little bit about some of the things
Speaker 1: we see them doing, because girls in movies usually we
Speaker 1: see them doing pretty traditionally feminine things or not doing
Speaker 1: anything at all. But in this movie, and there is
Speaker 1: some like you know, traditionally feminine stuff we see them doing,
Speaker 1: but a lot of it is just pretty neutral because
Speaker 1: we see them like riding bikes, swimming, staving up to
Speaker 1: buy a tree house eight hundred fifty dollars so much money. Um,
Speaker 1: They're doing seances, They're hanging out at a diner. They
Speaker 1: sometimes are you know, like talking about boys and sex
Speaker 1: and the reading Cosmo. They're exchanging friendship bracelets. But then
Speaker 1: we see them like painting a garage door. So we
Speaker 1: see like this whole array of just like very normal stuff,
Speaker 1: stuff that I did three teen at that age exactly,
Speaker 1: And it was just really refreshing to see girls doing
Speaker 1: normal things and then like what it felt like a
Speaker 1: pretty realistic way. I mean, there was like more that
Speaker 1: happened in this movie that I didn't expect. I mean
Speaker 1: you saw them hurting each other's feelings sometimes you saw
Speaker 1: them uh and and was that like weren't positive, but
Speaker 1: we're realistic of like how kids that age make fun
Speaker 1: of each other. They were teasing each other. You could
Speaker 1: see moments where they wanted to understand each other, but
Speaker 1: we're not equipped to understand each other quite yet. Like
Speaker 1: just there were all these really cool, like well written
Speaker 1: moments of like, oh, I think maybe I blocked that
Speaker 1: out for like on that, but it felt Yeah, it
Speaker 1: all felt pretty because a lot of what we see
Speaker 1: and if there is like a twelve year old girl
Speaker 1: in a movie, she's doing the thing that we hate,
Speaker 1: which is the precocious child trope where she's like wise
Speaker 1: beyond her years and just somehow knows everything about everything
Speaker 1: but here we see like very realistic, age appropriate depictions
Speaker 1: of these girls, like and yeah, they're not always right.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they behave shitty a lot of times they're being
Speaker 1: mean to each other. Um, but that is kind of
Speaker 1: the human experience, especially when you're that age, and they're
Speaker 1: like dealing with yeah, like how she fakes her own
Speaker 1: death and she just doesn't know how to deal with it,
Speaker 1: and they're just like, don't be an asshole, and but
Speaker 1: they don't know how to communicate that quite And I
Speaker 1: love the scenes when they're on their bikes, so I
Speaker 1: think that's so cute. I love the music. It's yeah
Speaker 1: the music track. I grew up in like a suburban town,
Speaker 1: I guess, even though it's kind of in l a adjacent,
Speaker 1: But we would do that stuff all the time when
Speaker 1: I was like twelve, Like there would be like a
Speaker 1: crew of girls because you know, it wasn't shitty where
Speaker 1: I lived yet, and it was it was awesome. There's
Speaker 1: like nobody around. There was no Brendan Frasier's yet, but
Speaker 1: you know, there definitely was people that bought a cigarettes,
Speaker 1: which is awful. Um. One of the first things you
Speaker 1: see in the movie is they're all playing red rover
Speaker 1: on their side. It's just the four of them, and
Speaker 1: they call over a little boy I forget his name,
Speaker 1: but he can't break their bond, symbolizing the friendship that
Speaker 1: can't be broken. And then also it's like, oh, these
Speaker 1: girls are triumphing over a boy in a game that
Speaker 1: tests physical strength, and then we're just like strong female protectives.
Speaker 1: We got them. It doesn't ring with the same message
Speaker 1: when they do it again five years later, still with
Speaker 1: a twelve year old boy, but you know, I get
Speaker 1: what they were going for. I would have loved if
Speaker 1: they brought back like Devin saw what twenty five years
Speaker 1: later to be like run at our arms and he's like, no,
Speaker 1: you just you just gave birth. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: run at you. Um yeah, I mean. Another thing I
Speaker 1: really like about this movie is that, as you said, Jamie, like,
Speaker 1: they're characterized very differently. They have very different personalities, which
Speaker 1: is kind of remarkable because usually a movie doesn't allow
Speaker 1: more than one woman to be in it, and if
Speaker 1: there are more than one woman, it's kind of hard
Speaker 1: to differentiate them because they're not characterized very well. In
Speaker 1: this movie, you get such strong characterizations of all of them,
Speaker 1: and we get to know quite a bit about each one.
Speaker 1: I think the character we learn least about is Teeny. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say that's very thing, which I think again
Speaker 1: is I mean, and this is a very very very
Speaker 1: very very white movie. But I think the only like
Speaker 1: one of the only people of color we see is
Speaker 1: just kicked out of his own limo and left in
Speaker 1: the dust. I was like, Limo driver, they don't even
Speaker 1: drive his limo. He's not even allowed to drive his
Speaker 1: ow damn limo. But so this is a small victory.
Speaker 1: But I think that like a lesser movie would strictly
Speaker 1: focus on Teeny and focus on the most like the
Speaker 1: most hyperfeminine um of Like, I feel like there's a
Speaker 1: tendency of movies to focus on the most hyperfeminine and
Speaker 1: sideline characters who were not that we're in this one.
Speaker 1: It's the exact opposite where it's kind of I think
Speaker 1: that we're supposed to believe. I mean, if Demi Moore's
Speaker 1: wardrobe is to be believed supposed to be a weird girl,
Speaker 1: which is like, I'm never buying Demi Moore is a
Speaker 1: weird girl. But like, I get it. I saw the sunglasses,
Speaker 1: but like it focuses. I think onto like like the
Speaker 1: quote unquote weird girls, and you see there's a little
Speaker 1: bit of body diversity, especially when their kids, where Chrissie
Speaker 1: is bigger and she is mercif for it in a
Speaker 1: way that like almost turned my my stomach a little
Speaker 1: bit because you're like, oh, I you know, like you
Speaker 1: see kids be treated like that when you're a kid,
Speaker 1: like and and and because at first, when I was
Speaker 1: watching the scenes with Christy as an adult, I'm like,
Speaker 1: she she's like kind of like being pretty hard on them,
Speaker 1: and then you flash back and see how they used
Speaker 1: to treat her. I'm like, Oh, she's right, greedy. Wilson's
Speaker 1: totally right to be dumping on them. They she's just
Speaker 1: getting worthy revenge. Here's I feel like my cousins and
Speaker 1: I still do that to each other. Sometimes we're like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, why would she just mean to me? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, probably because of that thing I did
Speaker 1: with the like a thumb print pad into that I
Speaker 1: was just I just had an my cousin bring up
Speaker 1: an argument we had when we were six results about
Speaker 1: one of those ink pads. Yeah, anyways, did you get
Speaker 1: in call over her? No? I poured water on her
Speaker 1: ink pad by mistake, and then there was no more
Speaker 1: ink left in it, and I denied, denied, denied, and
Speaker 1: then she got in trouble with her mom because she
Speaker 1: had to get a new ink pad, and it was
Speaker 1: a whole thing. We're still talking about it today. Apparently
Speaker 1: I'm a liar. But I did like how Christie is like,
Speaker 1: I'm not fat, and like she sticks up for herself
Speaker 1: even though they kind of ras her. She's kind of
Speaker 1: like I'm not I like how she's just like I'm
Speaker 1: not painting that. I'm like I have to eat every
Speaker 1: two hours. I love her character. She's great, Okay, her
Speaker 1: friends are pretty cruel to her and behind her back
Speaker 1: as well. That was most mad. Likewise, when Teeny and
Speaker 1: Samantha Samantha, they're like making fun of Christie behind her
Speaker 1: back as well. I'm like, get oh the scene they're
Speaker 1: talking about, like if you were on an island and
Speaker 1: there's nothing to eat, who of us would you eat?
Speaker 1: And she says, Chrissy because she would feed more people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's quite a few scenes like that. Um, it's so
Speaker 1: like cringe e to watch. But you're like, but but
Speaker 1: it's like, not like I'm ruling King's like making something up.
Speaker 1: It's just it's really it's weird. It's it is conflicting
Speaker 1: because it's on one hand, she's like depicting something that
Speaker 1: for sure happens, and probably I would guess happened more
Speaker 1: in the seventies than it would in nineteen because I
Speaker 1: think I'm hoping kids are brought up to be a
Speaker 1: little bit more accepting than they were back in the day. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know woke kids out there. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: shout out my will kids. Um. I don't have any
Speaker 1: children in my own obviously, none of us. But I
Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of scenes like that where it's
Speaker 1: not only the characters targeting her and being cruel of
Speaker 1: her because of her weight, but it also is the
Speaker 1: movie the narrative makes some choices which are that like
Speaker 1: she when they're like bicycling to Greenfield, which is nine
Speaker 1: miles away by the way, we see on a little
Speaker 1: sign um that like she's the one who needs to
Speaker 1: stop for a break. She's the one who like doesn't
Speaker 1: want to participate in the painting of the garage door
Speaker 1: because she has to eat when the girls are saving
Speaker 1: like swimming really fast because I think Roberta is dead
Speaker 1: in the water. She's like struggling really hard to swim
Speaker 1: and keep up, like she's always just kind of like
Speaker 1: lagging behind. They make her have a head start when
Speaker 1: they steal the voice you better there. It's Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that like that it's not as sensitively written as
Speaker 1: it should be, which is a bummer because like that
Speaker 1: would be if we were a little more thoughtfully written,
Speaker 1: it would be like that is something that happens with kids,
Speaker 1: and I think it's worthy of exploring. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think she really ever got the chance still like
Speaker 1: stand up for herself in a really meaningful way about
Speaker 1: Gerry O'Connell. You know what I mean. We had a
Speaker 1: discussion similar to this on Book Smart. But what what
Speaker 1: I think a movie like Book Smart course corrects is that, like,
Speaker 1: we do have a plus sized character in the Beanie
Speaker 1: Feldstine character in that movie, and it's never her weight
Speaker 1: and size is never called attention to, it's never made
Speaker 1: fun of. And I think if this if now and
Speaker 1: then we're like remade today, her size would be treated
Speaker 1: very differently. But because it came out in the mid nineties,
Speaker 1: it's treated the way it is and again I wonder
Speaker 1: because it's like I'm rolling King is by all accounts
Speaker 1: a pretty forward thinking writer, and the fact that she
Speaker 1: wrote in an out character in the nineties, even though
Speaker 1: it got you know, taken out, which is very nineties,
Speaker 1: you know, I wonder if there was a draft where
Speaker 1: that was like dealt with more thoughtfully. And then they're like, no,
Speaker 1: body standards are still extremely rigid. I can't do it.
Speaker 1: Could be I don't know, but yeah, I just I
Speaker 1: don't love the way that the movie frames it in flashback.
Speaker 1: I am glad to see her kind of like subtly
Speaker 1: dump on her friends in the future because they were
Speaker 1: assholds to her. Um, we had to take another quick break,
Speaker 1: but then we'll come right back, and we're back just
Speaker 1: to continue the conversation about Chrissie a little bit more.
Speaker 1: And this is just kind of one of the things
Speaker 1: that we see that like differentiates her from her friends
Speaker 1: and that we see all these different personality types, is
Speaker 1: that Chrissie has some somewhat regressive ideas and she really
Speaker 1: subscribes to traditional feminine norms. Um, we're like Robertas splashing
Speaker 1: around in some puddles and then like Chrissie says, like ROBERTA,
Speaker 1: why can't you just act like a girl. And then
Speaker 1: later during the softball fight, which I want to talk
Speaker 1: all about, she's like, remember your lady when she's about
Speaker 1: to go like punch a dude. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: was like I noticed, but it's for me. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: First of all, it's nineteen seventy. Second of all, there
Speaker 1: are enough diversities of opinions on what womanhood is. And
Speaker 1: I feel like that's almost like what the whole flashback
Speaker 1: is about, is like about each of them defining like
Speaker 1: who am I and like what is womanhood to me?
Speaker 1: Because they all sort of have like a different and
Speaker 1: then at the end they're like, you know, we were
Speaker 1: all trying to be the same person, but we're very different.
Speaker 1: So I mean, just the fact that you see like
Speaker 1: one of the characters like taping down her boobs and
Speaker 1: then another one trying to augment them, like really just
Speaker 1: telling again of like a very not the same person
Speaker 1: these characters, Like really they really go for it there.
Speaker 1: She's like brushing her hair, counting how many times, and
Speaker 1: like Chris Sie, her mom is so just like put
Speaker 1: this thing down and like yeah, Bonny Hunt and when
Speaker 1: she says that thing about like, oh, I can't French
Speaker 1: kiss the guy because like they want everything, which it's
Speaker 1: such a twelve year old thing to say. My mom
Speaker 1: told me when I was I think about that age.
Speaker 1: She told me and my friend Lindsay that I don't
Speaker 1: know why she would lie about this, but it was
Speaker 1: I so believed her for so long. She was just
Speaker 1: like because I think I read in a magazine about
Speaker 1: French kissing and I must have just said it. And
Speaker 1: she was like, I've never French kissed anyone before. I
Speaker 1: was like what, and she's like, it's gross, there's germs.
Speaker 1: Don't do it. I would never like. She was like
Speaker 1: it was such a weird lie. But I like until
Speaker 1: I was like at French kissing level myself, and I
Speaker 1: was like, wait, there's no way she was telling the
Speaker 1: truth about never having But what if she was telling
Speaker 1: the truth, you know, we're not always never kissed with tongue.
Speaker 1: I think she'll probably listen to this. And I never
Speaker 1: talked to her about it, but later I just was like, oh,
Speaker 1: what a weird lie. Jail tweet at us just the truth?
Speaker 1: Truth or day or jail? Do you ever did you.
Speaker 1: That would be such a cool fact about how are you?
Speaker 1: How are you to children? I've never kissed with tome Um.
Speaker 1: That reminds me kind of of one of my favorite
Speaker 1: scenes in the movie when they have discovered the Wormer's
Speaker 1: skinny dipping, which seeing boys their naked butts, their naked bodies,
Speaker 1: minus we don't see their penises, but like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's weird, it's but they're watching the Warmer's skinny dipping,
Speaker 1: which is like a rare example of like a female
Speaker 1: gaze moment in a movie. And then Teeny's like, I
Speaker 1: saw Scott's penis, and then Roberto and Samantha like they
Speaker 1: also sneak a peek, and then Chrissy is like, great,
Speaker 1: now I'm the only one who hasn't seen it. It'll
Speaker 1: be the topic of conversation and I'll be left out.
Speaker 1: So I better see it. But only because you're forcing me,
Speaker 1: and I do this out of protests and they're all,
Speaker 1: we're not enforcing, and she's like, fine, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: You're you're you're forcing my eyes. And then it's like
Speaker 1: you just wanted to see a boy's dick and it's
Speaker 1: not that big she said yeah. She's like it's not
Speaker 1: that big, and then the Sara Birch is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he has to have a heart on and then she
Speaker 1: puts her hands out as if like a hard on
Speaker 1: is like a foot and a half long. To Suby
Speaker 1: Sandwiches love it. It's adorable. I'm like wondering, I'm like,
Speaker 1: how much did the I mean, I guess the actors
Speaker 1: are like a few, like a year or two older
Speaker 1: than their parts. I'm like, how much do they know
Speaker 1: that this is a joke? Oh? True, don't because they're
Speaker 1: still quite young. They're very young. They're actors brains, that's true.
Speaker 1: They've they've lived many lives. They've grown up fast. Um.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about another thing I really like
Speaker 1: about this movie, which is the you see a lot
Speaker 1: of moments where boys are underestimating girl. Um. We see
Speaker 1: the like jello balloon fight, and then Robert is like
Speaker 1: chasing after them and it's like we owe you wormers,
Speaker 1: and we always pay our debts. And then Devin saw
Speaker 1: his character responds um and he says, yeah, look, we're
Speaker 1: really afraid of a bunch of girls. And she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you should be. And then later they do enact revenge,
Speaker 1: which is like sweet revenge by stealing their clothes. Again,
Speaker 1: I don't want to see naked boy. Didn't need that shot,
Speaker 1: but I like babies. They're a little yeah it's not.
Speaker 1: And then the red Rover thing when they the little
Speaker 1: boy can't break through their you know, unbreakable friendship and
Speaker 1: dare and then the softball game softball game scene. Can
Speaker 1: I go beat by beat with what happens here because
Speaker 1: I love it so much, Everything except the creepy little
Speaker 1: future husband being like any kind She's like, get lost, loser,
Speaker 1: and now you're going to be my wife like assistance
Speaker 1: and then wear her down. I mean, yes, everything else
Speaker 1: is everything else. Here's here's what happens the girls here
Speaker 1: about a softball game happening off in the distance, and
Speaker 1: Roberta is like, let's go, and it's Roberta's turned to bat.
Speaker 1: And then Devin Sawa was like, all right, everybody move
Speaker 1: in because they are not anticipating that she will hit
Speaker 1: the ball very hard or far. And then feminist icon
Speaker 1: little boy who we've never seen before and we will
Speaker 1: never see again. I don't think it is weird that
Speaker 1: they don't just have one of the warmer brothers say it,
Speaker 1: but they just choose it's a random kid, and he says,
Speaker 1: it's just a pretty good performance. He's like sitting on
Speaker 1: top of a fence with his arms crossed, like, hey, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not even talking about you're not even no. Okay,
Speaker 1: so true feminist icon. Little boy in the field who says,
Speaker 1: come on, Roberta hit it over their heads. And then
Speaker 1: another kids like showed up. He's doing the bare minimum.
Speaker 1: He's a feminist okay um, and then Roberta she hits
Speaker 1: the ball. First one is a foul ball, and then
Speaker 1: shitty boy not feminist icon not playing. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: even playing. He had extreme like resting bully face, like
Speaker 1: the kid just looked like a bully and they went
Speaker 1: hey and you're like, oh no, He's like, who are
Speaker 1: you kidding? Girls can't play softball? And then she says
Speaker 1: what did you say? And he says, I said girls
Speaker 1: can't play softball, and then she throws down her bat
Speaker 1: and storms toward him, and this is when Chrissy's like,
Speaker 1: remember you're a lady. And then he's like, why don't
Speaker 1: you go home and play with your dolls? And then
Speaker 1: Chrissie says, the only doll Roberta has is a g
Speaker 1: I Joe and then right, and then Roberta punches him
Speaker 1: in the face. He falls down. She starts wailing on him.
Speaker 1: It's great. Her friends pull her off of him. He
Speaker 1: calls Roberta a crazy bitch. And then Samantha says, how
Speaker 1: does it feel to get the crap kicked out of
Speaker 1: you but a girl? Which I don't necessarily know how
Speaker 1: I feel about that, But he says, too bad, your
Speaker 1: mother's did. Somebody needs to teach you how to act
Speaker 1: like a girl? Like who is this? How does he
Speaker 1: know so much about in the city? Who? He doesn't
Speaker 1: even go here exactly? And then Samantha tackles him and
Speaker 1: then another fight ensues. It's great, love it and you've
Speaker 1: all felt that feeling right. We were like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: fight for my friend, I mean not physically. Every actor
Speaker 1: involved in this scene is wonderful. I also want to
Speaker 1: shout out whoever edited in the sound effects, because it
Speaker 1: makes the fight sound so brutal, like when Christina Riccie
Speaker 1: throws the first punch and you hear it connects like
Speaker 1: but you're like, oh my god, she like broke his nose,
Speaker 1: Like it's so brutal, it's really good. So just to
Speaker 1: kind of continue off of that sentiment on another thing
Speaker 1: I really like about this movie is that you get
Speaker 1: to see girls kind of misbehaving, not being like the
Speaker 1: prim and proper societal expectation of what girls are supposed
Speaker 1: to be. Because you see them throwing punches. You see
Speaker 1: them smoking cigarettes and perhaps that was too influential and
Speaker 1: it made people start smoking, but you know, you see
Speaker 1: them it's like sneaking out at night being wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like you get to see them make mistakes, and they
Speaker 1: all make mistakes in different ways, and then you sort
Speaker 1: of get enough background on each character to understand why
Speaker 1: they are making these specific mistakes. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: Roberta is probably the easiest example to draw from there.
Speaker 1: Of um, sometimes you see her act out and it's
Speaker 1: confusing to her friends, but it is like rooted in
Speaker 1: this trauma she has with what happened with her mother,
Speaker 1: And like you just you get to see a wide
Speaker 1: range of emotions and reactions and most of them don't
Speaker 1: seem like rooted in any stereotype because you just know
Speaker 1: the character well enough to understand why they would do it.
Speaker 1: Truly that simple. Yeah, It's almost as if when you
Speaker 1: try hard at writing a female character, we get a
Speaker 1: sense of who they are will come across go fair. Um,
Speaker 1: can we talk about Roberta a little bit? So I
Speaker 1: really liked that this I think the heaviest thing this
Speaker 1: movie really tackles is her grief, right, and I think
Speaker 1: they kind of want you to be equally sad about
Speaker 1: Gabby Hoffman's parents divorce, even though I'm kind of like whatever,
Speaker 1: But although it is like it does seem like it's
Speaker 1: the kind of divorce, like a very nine seventy, like
Speaker 1: dad leaves for milk and doesn't come back kind of divorce,
Speaker 1: which is awful, especially because like divorce wasn't as popular
Speaker 1: back then. Because I even say, it's so hot right now, Um,
Speaker 1: no other families on the block or like that was
Speaker 1: the first family that like divorce kind of thing? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean, but but I think in terms of like
Speaker 1: lifelong drama, I mean, Roberta takes the case in the
Speaker 1: trauma Wars of this movie, she because women being competition,
Speaker 1: women be competing with each other over who's the most traumatized.
Speaker 1: I liked that this movie and I feel like it
Speaker 1: dealt with it pretty responsibly. Um tried to handle a
Speaker 1: child grieving. I feel like that's not something you see
Speaker 1: a lot really ever in a way that is I mean,
Speaker 1: I I kind of I'm curious. I'm like, what kind
Speaker 1: of research did I'm Erilyn King do when she was
Speaker 1: writing this, because it seemed pretty grounded in, like you know,
Speaker 1: she would act out. You would see she was trying to,
Speaker 1: like when she would fake her own death. It was
Speaker 1: like trying to normalize it for herself, trying to have
Speaker 1: a sense of humor about it, and then having like
Speaker 1: these really emotional moments. It was just like I thought
Speaker 1: it was really like well done, beautiful, and especially because
Speaker 1: Roberta's character and and now knowing that Roberta, who grows
Speaker 1: up to be Rosie O'donnald was supposed to be kind
Speaker 1: of this queer coded character that they later kind of
Speaker 1: undo that work and then they're like, Okay, now Devin
Speaker 1: saw what is here. There's there's there's a lot going
Speaker 1: on with her character. I don't know, like Roberta just
Speaker 1: she's such a rich character. And I wish that the
Speaker 1: Devin saw what thing was like. I wish you could
Speaker 1: just be out but the taping down her breasts thing
Speaker 1: when she was younger, I thought was like, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: what is what are they trying to say here? And
Speaker 1: I feel like that kind of gets a little bit muddled,
Speaker 1: but it was, I mean, it was interesting to see
Speaker 1: that period. You don't see that a lot in movies,
Speaker 1: especially movies that are like directed at children. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just really like her, But it's just particularly pertaining
Speaker 1: to how the movie tackles the idea of grief with
Speaker 1: kids and doesn't ever really cut away to an adult
Speaker 1: explaining her own grief to her. It's her figuring out
Speaker 1: her grief with the kids that she knows, and them
Speaker 1: all working it out kind of together as well as
Speaker 1: they can. If that was like, it was beautiful. And
Speaker 1: I think it's like suggested that no one is helping
Speaker 1: her deal with it. She's in a nineteen seventies house
Speaker 1: full of boys and dad probably like all emotionally repressed,
Speaker 1: like like I don't know what to do. I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: And I was like and and and seeing her just
Speaker 1: I mean, god, I can't imagine how much that day
Speaker 1: the library fucked her up in the years that followed,
Speaker 1: because of course her dad wouldn't tell herself, so it's
Speaker 1: like that's not a fault of her dad. It just
Speaker 1: seems like her dad's got, you know, a lot on
Speaker 1: his plate, and she just is like trained to suppress.
Speaker 1: It's like sitty to see sad, but it's really nice
Speaker 1: to see her get like support from her friends and
Speaker 1: kind of that like twelve year old thing of like
Speaker 1: they're trying to relate with each other. They're like, I
Speaker 1: get it and they don't, but they want to and
Speaker 1: that's enough. And kind of the same thing with the
Speaker 1: divorce narrative. I guess I have a question about. One
Speaker 1: of the things that felt a little weird to me
Speaker 1: in this movie was how Samantha's mother was treated. I
Speaker 1: didn't really like how they treated Samantha's mother. It's one
Speaker 1: of those things I feel like it almost is like
Speaker 1: I understand what they were going for, but the movie
Speaker 1: seems to decide with the child a little too much,
Speaker 1: and kind of the same way where they almost side
Speaker 1: with the kids that are making fun of young Chrissie's
Speaker 1: body a little too much. Where Samantha is not happy
Speaker 1: that her you know, her parents are split up. Obviously,
Speaker 1: most kids aren't happy when that happens, especially in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 1: But then the way that we see Samantha's mother in
Speaker 1: a different scene where it just all felt a little
Speaker 1: weird and unrealistic, where the mother is inviting a first
Speaker 1: date over to their house dinner or dinner, and then
Speaker 1: like it's it's the writing is weird in this scene
Speaker 1: because I think we're supposed to like interpret Samantha's mother
Speaker 1: is kind of like this irresponsible villain, uh for bringing
Speaker 1: home a first date her kids kind of sad, is
Speaker 1: like she has good intentions but like doesn't really know
Speaker 1: how to execute them adequately or something like that. And
Speaker 1: what what adults brings a first date home to meet
Speaker 1: their children? You know? Like I mean it was and
Speaker 1: I kind of appreciate that this movie doesn't focus on
Speaker 1: the parents significantly at all, and it's mostly about the
Speaker 1: relationship between the girls, but yeah, I just felt like
Speaker 1: it's a very small gripe. But I felt like Samantha's
Speaker 1: mom kind of got shaft and and and no no
Speaker 1: real opportunity to explain, you know, where she was coming
Speaker 1: from or you know. But but also it's like I'm
Speaker 1: sure parents weren't talking to their kids about the details
Speaker 1: of their divorce as much. In these days. She had
Speaker 1: a lot of wigs though, she had and get outfit,
Speaker 1: and that poor guy on the first date was really
Speaker 1: doing everything he got hankaz Area. Why did Hank gaz
Speaker 1: Area accept that invitation? What was n seventy? Like listeners?
Speaker 1: If you were a lot I've and like cognizant during
Speaker 1: this time? Does this track for you at all? Like
Speaker 1: did this happen? I feel like it's not unrealistic. I
Speaker 1: don't know, I was not alive, but like, I just
Speaker 1: think times were really wacky back they just moved a
Speaker 1: little because there I could just come to your house
Speaker 1: and wear are your dad's clothes? I mean that whatever?
Speaker 1: I think so wild? Um what I do like about
Speaker 1: that storyline, it's like the divorced parents and everything. Uh
Speaker 1: Clors Leachman shows up at Samantha's house and she's like
Speaker 1: banging on the doors and stuff like that, and um,
Speaker 1: Samantha's mom is like I could not deal with her
Speaker 1: right now. And then Samantha says, like why is she
Speaker 1: coming here? Let grandma yell at him, meaning like her dad,
Speaker 1: he's the one who left. So she's like she wants
Speaker 1: the man to be accountable in this situation because the
Speaker 1: grandmother is like mad at her mom for like being
Speaker 1: left good to him, and it's like, no, yell the man,
Speaker 1: he's the one who abandoned his family. Um. And then
Speaker 1: there's a few even though like parents aren't the focus
Speaker 1: of that of this movie, and I am again I'm
Speaker 1: also fine with that. We get like a few glimpses
Speaker 1: or a few like lines of dialogue where the girls
Speaker 1: are learning things like and I think this is one
Speaker 1: of Brendan Fraser's lines. But the lesson that he teaches
Speaker 1: them is that, uh, you know, your parents aren't always right.
Speaker 1: I wish someone had taught me that when I was
Speaker 1: your age. Um, And there's a bunch of cigarettes. Here's
Speaker 1: a bunch of cigarettes. I'm gonna drink all of your
Speaker 1: Fanta and kind of flirt with you a little bit,
Speaker 1: a little get how much of that is the performance
Speaker 1: and how much of that is what's on the page
Speaker 1: it was? What is that scene? I don't know, so
Speaker 1: it could easily be cut, but listeners who are alive
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy that this happened to you again, I
Speaker 1: think it cigarette. I'm glad girls like hitchhiking and like
Speaker 1: do a manner of like very dangerous things. This was
Speaker 1: like Cray Milk Carton. Yeah. But then there's also that
Speaker 1: scene where Teeny and Samantha are talking because like Teeny
Speaker 1: has pretty absentee parents, Samantha's parents are getting divorced. Uh,
Speaker 1: they're siting like all these like TV families who are
Speaker 1: like I love widowers and stuffing that She's just like,
Speaker 1: you know, there are no perfect families. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it's normal for things to be shitty. I loved that
Speaker 1: they use and I was like, oh, that this scene
Speaker 1: was written for our podcast because they're trying to normalize
Speaker 1: her experience based on things they've seen in media, and
Speaker 1: they're not quite able to do it because they can
Speaker 1: only name widowers because they couldn't have you couldn't be
Speaker 1: divorced on TV at this time. But I thought that
Speaker 1: that was I was like, oh, that's like the perfect
Speaker 1: Bechdel cast example of like they're trying to be like
Speaker 1: it's okay because the Beverly Hillbillies did it, but I
Speaker 1: guess they didn't, but they got kind of clothes. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a great interaction. Can we talk about the
Speaker 1: Devin Sawa and Roberta kiss consent. Yes, he asked for
Speaker 1: consent several times. I mean, first of all, I think
Speaker 1: we all agree with Roberta should have just been allowed
Speaker 1: to be gay. And well, here's the thing I think, like,
Speaker 1: I think Rosie O'Donnell definitely should have been out as
Speaker 1: a lesbian or queer woman in the now part of
Speaker 1: the now and then storyline. Um. I think I'm like,
Speaker 1: what if I was like, that's what the title um?
Speaker 1: And I would love our queer listeners to weigh in here.
Speaker 1: But I think it is perfectly in the in the
Speaker 1: realm of possibility, where Roberta, who is twelve and only
Speaker 1: just starting to discover her sexuality at all, would because
Speaker 1: it's the norm, especially of Vent that she would be like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I'm a girl, so I'm supposed to be attracted to boys,
Speaker 1: like I should kiss this boy. I get my I
Speaker 1: guess my curiosity there because it's like I don't object
Speaker 1: to it. I'm just I just would be cool to see, uh,
Speaker 1: and it just is not going to happen in but
Speaker 1: you know, a young girl recognized her sexuality and discuss
Speaker 1: it definitely in any way. But I guess I'm just
Speaker 1: curious more from like a production standpoint of like was
Speaker 1: that added after I'm Rolling's king is told listen, we
Speaker 1: are not going to have an out character in this movie,
Speaker 1: Like was that my series? Now? And here is why
Speaker 1: I want to go another kind of beat by beat
Speaker 1: analysis of this scene, um, and my theory comes at
Speaker 1: what happens at the end of the scene. So Roberta
Speaker 1: is shooting hoops. The oldest Warmer boy ak Devin Swa
Speaker 1: shows up and she misses a shot. He says, you're
Speaker 1: not following through, so he's man explaining to her, and
Speaker 1: then she says, who asked you? Like so applause for that,
Speaker 1: and then they start playing one on one basketball. She
Speaker 1: makes two shots, he makes zero shots, and then he's like, hey,
Speaker 1: you're pretty good at basketball and not just for a girl,
Speaker 1: which is not a compliment, but you don't realize that
Speaker 1: when you're twelve years old. And then she just goes like,
Speaker 1: thank you, good things. And I feel like if she
Speaker 1: was just based on how we've seen her act already,
Speaker 1: if she was in a less forgiving mood, she would
Speaker 1: have yelled at him. She's just like, I'm not choosing
Speaker 1: this battle. That was um and then they sit down
Speaker 1: together and he's like, I think you're a really nice girl,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I thought you always hated me and
Speaker 1: he's like, so did I. And then he turns towards
Speaker 1: her and says kiss you. And she says, what are
Speaker 1: you mumbling? And he says, can I kiss you? So
Speaker 1: he's again asking for consent. We do not often see
Speaker 1: this I think three times total right now, because she says,
Speaker 1: I guess and then he zooms towards her, great, are
Speaker 1: you ready? And then she's like, oh, you want to
Speaker 1: do it now? And he's like sure, I mean if
Speaker 1: you want to. She says okay, and then they kiss
Speaker 1: and then he pulls away. He's exhilarated. She's like that
Speaker 1: was great, and she said it was okay. She think
Speaker 1: she was written as like a queer young girl who
Speaker 1: doesn't totally know her sexuality yet, but again, because of
Speaker 1: societal norms, she thinks she's supposed to be kissing boys.
Speaker 1: And then she says Scott and he turns towards her
Speaker 1: like rapidly, ready for another kiss, and he's like yeah,
Speaker 1: and she says, if you mentioned this to anyone, especially
Speaker 1: your brothers, I will beat the ship out of you. Yes, um,
Speaker 1: I hope So, I mean that would be that would
Speaker 1: be cool. I liked, I mean I did like that scene.
Speaker 1: I do agree with you. That's real and especially inventy like,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't portray. I don't think you know a woman
Speaker 1: or you know someone that's twelve like I mean, especially
Speaker 1: like the small town of Shelby, Indiana in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm guessing again I was not alive, but to
Speaker 1: be like an out queer teen or preteen would not
Speaker 1: have gone over well for community, I know, But I
Speaker 1: just I just think, you know, it's it's it's a movie,
Speaker 1: and we could have explored it. I mean, but it
Speaker 1: becomes a null choice because they wouldn't allow it to
Speaker 1: appear in That's what very frustrating to me about this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean even wouldn't right. But then again, another thing
Speaker 1: that like a movie like Book Smart kind of course
Speaker 1: crux is that we do in those characters a little
Speaker 1: bit older, but we have and I don't remember the
Speaker 1: actor's name, so Caitlin Diaver, Yes, well done, But that
Speaker 1: was like a big deal, right, like to portray not
Speaker 1: a big deal, but it was like refreshing to see
Speaker 1: someone in high school being like this is this is
Speaker 1: not a big deal. It was extremely normalized. Yes, which
Speaker 1: was And that's the difference between you know, twenty nineteen
Speaker 1: and exactly Yeah. Something interesting I thought about this movie
Speaker 1: is if they culled classic now that it was not
Speaker 1: received well at all. It was very, very very poorly reviewed.
Speaker 1: I mean, we we've got some pull quotes here. I
Speaker 1: think the most common criticism, as people are like the
Speaker 1: vibe is kind of like all female reboot of stand
Speaker 1: by Me, NOI thank you, which and and and this
Speaker 1: is it's basically all white male reviewers who are basically saying, like, why,
Speaker 1: I've already seen this with boys, so I like it better,
Speaker 1: and like boyhood and girlhood same deaf to me because
Speaker 1: I only care about boys. Uh, your your boy, Roger Ebert,
Speaker 1: I think we came on our on the Matreon. I
Speaker 1: think we came across the first thing that Roger Ebert
Speaker 1: said that we've ever liked about ja Jack Frost just
Speaker 1: saying how scary the puppet is. But he has to
Speaker 1: say on this the adult actresses are completely superfluous to
Speaker 1: the movie, which is a fully contrived stand by Me
Speaker 1: kind of story, Like he's just dismissive of literally every
Speaker 1: part of the movie, and it's just contempt disinterest. Why
Speaker 1: why is this movie made? Who was it for? Which
Speaker 1: is the vibe you get from a lot of this,
Speaker 1: you know period of a hundred years that they were
Speaker 1: basically only male reviewers of Like you get like who
Speaker 1: is this for? When it's very clear that it's for me? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm bored media for girls and women. But um, I
Speaker 1: have an even more frustrating quote from this same review
Speaker 1: by Roger Ebert um what distinguished stand by Me was
Speaker 1: the psychological stundness of the story. We could believe it
Speaker 1: and care about it now and then? Is made of
Speaker 1: artificial bits and pieces. The director, Leslie Linka Gladder says
Speaker 1: in the press notes that she started crying when she
Speaker 1: first read the script quote because it captured that delicate
Speaker 1: evolution from girlhood to womanhood. And you so rarely find
Speaker 1: that end quote. I guess you didn't see Man in
Speaker 1: the Moon, which has so much more truth and tenderness
Speaker 1: that it exposes now and then for what it is,
Speaker 1: a give a key sitcom end quote. Can you imagine
Speaker 1: a review aging worse? They're like it's so frustrating because
Speaker 1: it's so clear, like what he's missing and he is
Speaker 1: so blissfully unaware of what can't believe he's coming. That's
Speaker 1: a dumb comparison. Yeah, I am not familiar with that movie.
Speaker 1: But you know, Roger Ebert again, safety assume everything he
Speaker 1: says is basically wrong, terrible take as it pertains to gender.
Speaker 1: He we found him to be universally correct about Jack
Speaker 1: frost Um that all of his takes under like it's
Speaker 1: not even that he has takes on gender. He just
Speaker 1: is blissfully unaware that movies are made for people other
Speaker 1: than him. Um. Anyways, but yeah, this movie was definitely
Speaker 1: not um recognized in its time, but it was financially successful,
Speaker 1: not gigantically financially successful, but it but it did you know,
Speaker 1: it turned a profit. I think it, you know, helped
Speaker 1: to continue to launch the new generation of young actresses careers.
Speaker 1: And I mean girls were starved for media for them
Speaker 1: at this time end always and still yeah, just if
Speaker 1: you look on Rotten Tomatoes right now, it only has
Speaker 1: a percent fresh but in audience score, which indicates cult classic.
Speaker 1: The reviewers didn't understand it. I just wanted to quickly
Speaker 1: shout out, rumor willis adorable as the little sister to Samantha.
Speaker 1: Samantha Gabby, I'll get it, you'll get it by the end.
Speaker 1: Like um, Brendon Fraser isn't credited. We don't know why.
Speaker 1: What would be his credit? Creepy hippy like it literally
Speaker 1: says on the Wikipedia page Brendan Fraser as Vietnam veteran
Speaker 1: parentheses uncredited and you're just like what there? Um. He
Speaker 1: informs them that although their parents are adults, they're not
Speaker 1: always right, and that is his narrative purpose. And we
Speaker 1: do not see him in in the shout out to
Speaker 1: the actor who played young Chrissie, unfortunately passed away in
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. Um so r I p um
Speaker 1: she was. She was so good in this movie. She
Speaker 1: was such a good performance. I wish that, I guess
Speaker 1: I wish that there was a little more of the
Speaker 1: older group of women. I guess that I like the
Speaker 1: framing device, but as adults, it felt like a few
Speaker 1: things kind of fell a little short for me. More
Speaker 1: now less than the same amount of that would more now.
Speaker 1: I would have watched a little more movie to see
Speaker 1: a little more now, Because you're sort of like, given
Speaker 1: this barrage of information at the end, or in the
Speaker 1: case of Roberta and teeny non information. Yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: pitch okay ready for this? We get and unfortunately they'll
Speaker 1: have to be some slight recasting with the actor who
Speaker 1: played young Chrissy, but we get Thora Birch, b Hoffman
Speaker 1: and Christina Ricci to play the adult versions in a
Speaker 1: reboot this film, and then we cast a new squad
Speaker 1: of young child actors to play the young counterparts of
Speaker 1: those characters, and we update the not that there are
Speaker 1: a ton but some of the problematic things that are,
Speaker 1: and we can we can let riverta be out, Yes exactly,
Speaker 1: we can have more characters of color, which brings me
Speaker 1: to I wanted to read a quote from an essay
Speaker 1: by Zoe s Mudzy. I might have very badly butchered
Speaker 1: the pronunciation of that, but in a broadly article entitled
Speaker 1: what white girl Coming of age movies don't do for
Speaker 1: a black girl quote, These films about white female adolescents
Speaker 1: and teen hood revolve around particular experiences of and meditations
Speaker 1: on dissatisfaction and boredom, using nostalgia as their primary pool.
Speaker 1: And yet For me, a projections of high school misery
Speaker 1: and endless summers only served as a reminder that black
Speaker 1: girls are never afforded the kind of ordinariness that would
Speaker 1: make them relatable to white audiences. Um, which is kind
Speaker 1: of the thing with almost every coming of age movie ever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that is something that I will continue to be
Speaker 1: mindful of. Um. And unfortunately, it's like progress is still
Speaker 1: extremely slow on representing black girlhood at all, which is
Speaker 1: still very, very frustrating. I think that there's also something
Speaker 1: to be said for class as well, where definitely we're
Speaker 1: given a very I mean and it's not it's not
Speaker 1: even anything against the movie, it's just what we don't
Speaker 1: get in media at all, Like because we're seeing a
Speaker 1: solidly like middle class, maybe even a little upper middle class,
Speaker 1: the scenic Americana La la la. We love it. They
Speaker 1: have problems, but it's not the kind of problems poor
Speaker 1: kids have, and you don't really see you know, kids
Speaker 1: from lower classes ever really represented in movies like this,
Speaker 1: which is unfortunate because guess what they are also children?
Speaker 1: Um there, but yeah, I mean there there should I
Speaker 1: hope that we will continue to progress and get to
Speaker 1: see more reflections of black girlhood, of of girlhood from
Speaker 1: different you know, from all walks of life of none
Speaker 1: of like a gender discovery and like exploring your gender
Speaker 1: and learning about your gender as your kid. There's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of work to be done. Definitely. Yeah. Does
Speaker 1: anyone have any other thoughts about the movie? I thought
Speaker 1: it was interesting that and maybe either of you have
Speaker 1: experiences where you have a you know, a circle of
Speaker 1: friends when you're younger, and then a few stay back.
Speaker 1: And that's very I think eccentric situation there where it
Speaker 1: was like two of them were like we got out
Speaker 1: of here, and then the other to her like, we
Speaker 1: love it here. Was very funny. I really liked that,
Speaker 1: especially because it seems like even though this wasn't quite
Speaker 1: their relationship when they were like Roberta and Chrissie become
Speaker 1: very codependent as adults like they see, which definitely is
Speaker 1: something that happens. I liked how they were written as adults,
Speaker 1: where like you kind of get the vibe from Samantha like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's so weird here, I'm so glad I don't live here,
Speaker 1: and then you get the vibe from Chrissie of like
Speaker 1: she's so weird like everyone like everyone is like I
Speaker 1: am normal, everyone else is a freak, which is how
Speaker 1: everyone feels right. And it was nice to see everyone
Speaker 1: get their moment in of like when Chrissy is just
Speaker 1: like what are you wearing? What are you doing? What
Speaker 1: is like yeah, yeah, I like it's lovely. I like.
Speaker 1: I also liked how just like. A line I liked
Speaker 1: was how they described Teeny's parents. They basically are, you know,
Speaker 1: explaining what Teeny's deal is. She's hyper feminine, she wants
Speaker 1: to be an actor, she wants to be a performer,
Speaker 1: and Samantha says this is a typical upbringing for actors
Speaker 1: and pathological liars, like oh ship, yeah, Teeny, who, by
Speaker 1: the way, has a very fluffy white cat, and I
Speaker 1: just this to serve as a reminder that cats do
Speaker 1: have eight nipples and that's cat facts. With Caitlin Alfred
Speaker 1: Bilena could have tell me he should I won't take
Speaker 1: this role from Brendan Fraser because he needs it. He
Speaker 1: needed he needs it because he always needs it. But like,
Speaker 1: it's also weirdly a very Brendan Fraser role where you're
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, Brendan Fraser could just wander in here,
Speaker 1: like that's his vibe. But he could just wander in. Um.
Speaker 1: He rolled on set and was ready. I'm like, was
Speaker 1: this scripted? Like did he just come on and improvise?
Speaker 1: And it's like, don't credit me. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be paid for this, like like through the script away,
Speaker 1: like I don't need it. Love Brendan Fraser. Maybe maybe
Speaker 1: Alfred Bilenda could have been Pete. I think he should
Speaker 1: have played the He could have played Pete with a
Speaker 1: lot more pathos. I think that Alpha Blena would have
Speaker 1: really been like if you if you need an actor
Speaker 1: who could convince us that Pete didn't kill his family,
Speaker 1: you gotta break see. I think from Elina should have
Speaker 1: played the youngest warmer boy. They does have a forty
Speaker 1: year old man in their crew, like like pen fifteen style.
Speaker 1: He just plays Devin saw as best friend. I love it.
Speaker 1: Girls can't play song fall. You're like, is that Alfred?
Speaker 1: Oh my head? Okay, Well this movie is this movie
Speaker 1: is a treat. It really is, and it and it
Speaker 1: for it's doing a whole lot of things right. Indeed,
Speaker 1: indeed it is um and as we hinted at before,
Speaker 1: it absolutely passes the Bechdel test almost constantly. I don't
Speaker 1: think you ever see two men or two boys talking
Speaker 1: to each other really, or if they do, it's only
Speaker 1: for a very small amount of time on screen. But
Speaker 1: it is mostly girls and women interacting with each other,
Speaker 1: so not something you see very much. But now and
Speaker 1: then delivers it was fun. I think. I just like
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm just like, you know what coming of age,
Speaker 1: I did it. I don't need to see it again.
Speaker 1: I understand. I'm glad it exists, and I'm especially glad
Speaker 1: that it existed, and it's time for for like, just
Speaker 1: like girls getting to see themselves on screen in any way,
Speaker 1: shape or form is positive. Although it did make Calie
Speaker 1: a smoker, but but she looked really cool. I mean
Speaker 1: it's like she's smoking with the windows up, okay, and
Speaker 1: then there's like points to like a map, and there's
Speaker 1: a carton of Marlboro's. I'm just like, I know, the
Speaker 1: constantly smoking like ashtray has like forty butts, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I chose a bad week to stop smoking, and but
Speaker 1: she and she is like the cool one of smoking
Speaker 1: in the backyard with their pregnant friend and just like
Speaker 1: and she's baby there. I also just this is like
Speaker 1: a very like side thought. But when they were in
Speaker 1: the limo driving to also, it's like, could you reunite
Speaker 1: these women over a more stereotypical woman thing other than
Speaker 1: like she's about to give birth that's true, which was
Speaker 1: something that I was like, ding, But this movie does
Speaker 1: so much right that I gave it a pass. But
Speaker 1: when they're in the stolen limo going to somewhere, I'm
Speaker 1: not totally sure where they are in that birth. Maybe
Speaker 1: it was like a midwifery something like that. There's an
Speaker 1: ivy so they're not just like anywhere, and Rosie Donald's
Speaker 1: wearing scrubs, so I'm like, but I'm like where, Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe it's against a very comfortable hospital. Maybe she owns
Speaker 1: the hospital, maybe it's her own hospital. It's a small town.
Speaker 1: You never know, but but I liked just that. I
Speaker 1: thought the scene of them in the limo is really funny,
Speaker 1: where first it seems like a Donald like sort of
Speaker 1: improvised part where she's like, hey, look it's your uncle
Speaker 1: just kidding. No it's not. I was like, what was that?
Speaker 1: It was just like really, and Rita Wilson is She's
Speaker 1: like great, VCR Look, she's so funn I know. I
Speaker 1: was just like, what are they? Are they going to
Speaker 1: watch something? And then r in a limo too. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if Rita Wilson and Ressie Odonnald are
Speaker 1: just like friends, because it seems like they were sometimes
Speaker 1: talking about stuff that had nothing to do with anything.
Speaker 1: She's like, it's a VCR and she's like is there
Speaker 1: a remote? They're just like, what are you guys talking about?
Speaker 1: It was a great passing of the Bechdel test. I
Speaker 1: think it was while she's in labor to um giving
Speaker 1: birth to a bloody placenta baby and there is like
Speaker 1: four people in that delivery room and no husband. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't need it. Well that was maybe that was
Speaker 1: my other thing. It was like it didn't look like
Speaker 1: a hospital room, and it's very rare that there's just
Speaker 1: one person attending a birth. It's usually like two or
Speaker 1: three as far as professionals, not just like friends. Piece.
Speaker 1: You got this Rosie right like like usually it's you know,
Speaker 1: like there's a few people. She's just that good. She
Speaker 1: doesn't need anybody else. Like maybe there's right out of budget.
Speaker 1: At the end, they're like, just reuse the house set.
Speaker 1: No one will know we only have one set of scrubs.
Speaker 1: Shall we rate the movie on a nipple scale? Sure? Okay,
Speaker 1: so zero to five nipples. Based on its representation of women,
Speaker 1: I will give this a solid four. Yeah, I have
Speaker 1: to deduct some nippleage based on the fact that it
Speaker 1: makes absolutely no attempt whatsoever to meaningfully include any people
Speaker 1: of color. It did make an attempt to meaningfully include queerness,
Speaker 1: but because of homophobia in the nineties, audiences are like boo,
Speaker 1: so that had to be removed from the story and
Speaker 1: the narrative. Making the choice to characterize Christie in such
Speaker 1: a way that it is often fat shaming her um
Speaker 1: is not thing we like to see. But overall, I
Speaker 1: think it does a pretty spectacular job, especially for in
Speaker 1: showing a coming of age story of tween girls and
Speaker 1: their lives and the issues that they would face. It's
Speaker 1: so relatable, so much realism in the way they're characterized
Speaker 1: and uh their friendships. I love that you never see
Speaker 1: like they have conflict within their groups sometimes but it's
Speaker 1: never about anything like petty or anything like that. The
Speaker 1: way that we see like girls hating each other for
Speaker 1: no reason, and it feels realistic for the age to
Speaker 1: the reasons they have problems with each other seeing both
Speaker 1: realistic and age appropriate exactly. Yes, that's what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say. Yeah, it's just a really wonderful female driven
Speaker 1: story that you know, has some issues that have been
Speaker 1: kind of I think course corrected in comparable coming of
Speaker 1: age stories since I came out even and sister to
Speaker 1: the Traveling Pants. I feel like, of course corrects a
Speaker 1: few things that happen here that don't happen in there.
Speaker 1: And that's like ten years later, right, so incremental progress exactly. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, four nipples and I'll just make it easy,
Speaker 1: give one to each of the four characters. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go four nipples to Um. Yeah. I think that it's
Speaker 1: just for all the reasons you just described, and think
Speaker 1: it's like a really not just like a movie that
Speaker 1: made progress, but move a movie you can trace being
Speaker 1: used as a template in future movies and being updated
Speaker 1: for times as things become less societally taboo. I appreciate
Speaker 1: that I'm Marly and King wanted to include a queer
Speaker 1: storyline here. She does that, and Pretty Little Liars because
Speaker 1: every relationship of regardless of gender, and Pretty Little Liars
Speaker 1: deeply toxic. Yes, but there a all there's all sort
Speaker 1: of every kind of toxic relationships explored on that show. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that it's like a huge step. I'm glad
Speaker 1: that it's sort of stood the test of time. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, man, male critics very often don't get it. Um,
Speaker 1: it's really nice seeing I mean it's it's a very
Speaker 1: like solid middle class white girlhood that's reflected. Um. But
Speaker 1: unfortunately that tends to be where, um, at least right now,
Speaker 1: where people start with, like it always the first thing
Speaker 1: that they're comfortable even seeing reflected. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: progress need will continue to be built upon the work
Speaker 1: that this movie did and so and it's just it's
Speaker 1: it's I really I really liked it. I like that
Speaker 1: scene in the limo a lot. Uh. Four nippies, um,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna give one to each two now they
Speaker 1: both got a full set, all four of them. Kelly,
Speaker 1: I agree, four nipples for all the reasons that you
Speaker 1: guys listed. I really hate that there's no people of
Speaker 1: color basically except for them stealing that gentleman's car. Why
Speaker 1: couldn't he they have just let him drive his own limo?
Speaker 1: Did he offer he's there, it's his car, he knows
Speaker 1: the ins and yeah, that was very frustrating. But I
Speaker 1: want to give a nipple to Johnny's mom because like,
Speaker 1: where the fund is she Johnny? What don't they care
Speaker 1: about her murder? Nobody cares about her, but Honorable mentioned
Speaker 1: nipple to her. But for for all the ladies, each one, Yes,
Speaker 1: she deserves. She deserves nipples at very least after her
Speaker 1: husband killed her like that, Yeah, and then went out
Speaker 1: drinking all night with a dick. The reboot also has
Speaker 1: to address like what actually happens goes to real and
Speaker 1: the reboot to no, no tractor, no, none of that
Speaker 1: big That's another thing I'm really in king of course,
Speaker 1: correct Son. She's like, you know what, I was hesitant
Speaker 1: on the Supernatural and now and then I've really got
Speaker 1: to let it loose. Spirits are I guess I got
Speaker 1: to watch Pretty Little Liars. I would be fascinated to
Speaker 1: you you will hate it, but I would be fascinated
Speaker 1: to live tweet. I'll watched the pilot Liveshoot the Teacher.
Speaker 1: It's illegal and it is the first episode. I always
Speaker 1: confuse that show and Big Little Lies. So no, Pretty
Speaker 1: Little Liars is like a CW style. It was ABC
Speaker 1: Family I think technically or free form whatever they're calling
Speaker 1: it's it's like it's it's a teen teen like it's
Speaker 1: like toxic teenage content. The channel. I love it, the channel.
Speaker 1: The Channel. Yeah, I'm incredible. Well, Callie, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being here. You're ruining us. Where can people
Speaker 1: follow your work? Follow you online? I have my photography Instagram,
Speaker 1: which is at Callie b Photo, and I have a
Speaker 1: circus archive Instagram that's just a collection of my grandpa's
Speaker 1: photos and my mom's photos and my own photos, and
Speaker 1: you could read more about it on there, but it's
Speaker 1: at Circus dot stories when it's really cool. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just a bunch of old film circus photos and then
Speaker 1: they get newer as we age, me and then my mom.
Speaker 1: Now it's like it is like now and then time.
Speaker 1: It's a circus, the circus of life. Okay, thank you
Speaker 1: again so much for joining us. You can follow us
Speaker 1: at bectel cast. On the social media places. You can
Speaker 1: subscribe to our patreon a k R Matreon. It's five
Speaker 1: dollars a month and it gets you to bonus episodes
Speaker 1: every month, plus our entire backlog of bonus episodes. So
Speaker 1: now it's the best time to check out our Patreon.
Speaker 1: I love you guys now and when this is then
Speaker 1: to my five years from now, we come back getting
Speaker 1: the limel. No one has to give birth, but one
Speaker 1: of us does have to pretend. Okay, that's the Volunteers
Speaker 1: Tribute treehouse. Yes, oh yes, we all have to get
Speaker 1: a treehouse. That treehouse was gigantic. Yeah, well time shirt
Speaker 1: okay perfect. We love you gues By