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Speaker 1: Or behaviors either come from the energy of love or

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Speaker 1: the energy of fear. The more powerful question is not

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Speaker 1: which expert should I trust? It's why do I no

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Speaker 1: longer trust myself? A UK based physician, over a million

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Speaker 1: people listen to his podcast every week.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Rung and Chatterjay, you say that when you went

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Speaker 2: to medical school, fifty percent of what you were learning

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Speaker 2: was going to be wrong at some point.

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Speaker 1: We just don't know which fifty percent.

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Speaker 2: What would you say is the number one advice for

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Speaker 2: someone who says I want to break a bad habit,

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Speaker 2: it just can't happen.

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Speaker 1: The number one health and wellness podcast.

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Speaker 2: Jay said, Jay Sheidy, Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose.

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Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that you come back every week to

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Speaker 2: become a happier, healthier and more healed. Today's guests is

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Speaker 2: one of your favorites. Doctor Rung and Strategy a UK

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Speaker 2: based physician, an author, wellness expert and podcast host known

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Speaker 2: for empowering people to take control of their health through

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Speaker 2: simple lifestyle changes to rethink it. His sixth and latest book,

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Speaker 2: Make Change That Last, offers a personalized approach to simple

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Speaker 2: nine strategies for lasting change in daily life to unlock

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Speaker 2: long lasting health and happiness. This I truly believe is

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Speaker 2: Rongan's best book yet, and that's saying a lot. He's

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Speaker 2: had some incredible books out of the last few years.

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Speaker 2: Go and grab your copy right now. You won't regret

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Speaker 2: it and make these nine strategies a part of your

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Speaker 2: daily life. Welcome to On Purpose, Doctor Rungan, chat with

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Speaker 2: you Rung And it's great to have you.

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Speaker 1: Back, Jay. I love coming on your show. You're such

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Speaker 1: a wonderful host, and I'm looking forward to our conversation.

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Speaker 2: No, it's so great to have you here. Always wrong, Like,

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Speaker 2: I really enjoy our conversations. I enjoy our interactions offline

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Speaker 2: as much as I do online. And I remember when

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Speaker 2: you were talking about this book with me, when you

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Speaker 2: were first I think, putting it together, and there was

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Speaker 2: this excitement and then that you had in this look

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Speaker 2: in your eye where it was like this was the

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Speaker 2: first time it was like a medical doctor was writing

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Speaker 2: somewhat of a philosophical spiritual book. Yeah, but with a

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Speaker 2: scientific lens. And I think it's come together brilliantly. So

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Speaker 2: congrats on trying to mesh those things together. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Thanks, It's the book that my heart wanted to write.

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Speaker 1: I would say, more than anything I've ever done before,

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Speaker 1: this has come out to me. It had to come

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Speaker 1: out of me. And I'm in that funny position, Jay,

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Speaker 1: where I feel that I've already had the success through

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Speaker 1: writing the book. Yes, I hope it lends with people,

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Speaker 1: but even if it doesn't, like I've won by writing it,

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Speaker 1: and it's been a really authentic process. And frankly, it's

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Speaker 1: about something I'm super passionate about, which is helping people

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Speaker 1: make change that last. I think the title says it all.

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Speaker 1: We can all make change, but often it's only for

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Speaker 1: a few weeks or a few months. How many people

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Speaker 1: can make change that truly lasts, How many people can

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Speaker 1: truly transform their lives for good? It's not as many

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Speaker 1: as we would like. And this book is my attempt

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Speaker 1: to help people solve that problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's brilliant, I mean, talking about change. I want

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Speaker 2: to go back to something you say in the book.

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Speaker 2: So you say that when you went to medical school,

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Speaker 2: fifty percent of what you were learning was going to

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Speaker 2: be wrong at some point, you just didn't know which

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Speaker 2: fifty percent, And so I wanted to ask you, what's

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Speaker 2: something that you learned at medical school that today you

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Speaker 2: believe to be untrue and you've discovered new truths about well.

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Speaker 1: We were actually taught that. It was a professor at

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Speaker 1: Adamram Medical School. He said to us. I can remember

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Speaker 1: being in the anatomy lecture theater and he said, guys,

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Speaker 1: fifty percent of what you learn is going to turn

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Speaker 1: out to be wrong. We just don't know which fifty percent.

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Speaker 1: And I think that has huge relevance for all of us. Actually,

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Speaker 1: and I come to that shortly. But in terms of

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Speaker 1: one thing that I learned that I now believe not

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Speaker 1: to be true, I'd almost flip it the other way,

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Speaker 1: in the sense that I was never taught how much

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Speaker 1: our lifestyle can impact our health. I was taught that actually,

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Speaker 1: people come in to see you and they have a

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Speaker 1: set of problems. We need to hear what those problems are,

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Speaker 1: collect them, give them a label, and then give them

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Speaker 1: a pharmacuis good treatment. Whereas the more I practice medicine,

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Speaker 1: and I've been a dotsor for twenty three years now,

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Speaker 1: I realize, Wow, that only helps us for a small

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Speaker 1: fraction of people. And if you flip it, it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: our lifestyles, the way we eat the way we move,

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Speaker 1: the way we sleep, but also the way that we

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Speaker 1: think and the way we approach adversity. Those things all

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Speaker 1: combined together to create our health. And Jane, I think

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Speaker 1: you'll resonate with this. One of the things I've realized

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Speaker 1: over the past couple of years of really reflecting on

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Speaker 1: the way we're trained in Western medicine. And this is

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Speaker 1: not me saying I'm anti Western medicine. I think Western

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Speaker 1: medicine is exceptionally good at many things, but unfortunately for

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Speaker 1: most of the things we now see, the chronic lifestyle

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Speaker 1: driven illness, it's just not as helpful. Right, and fundamentally,

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Speaker 1: Western medicine teaches us that things go wrong in the body. Right,

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Speaker 1: we get taught to diagnose disease and treat disease. We

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Speaker 1: don't get taught how to create health. How do you

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Speaker 1: create vitality? What are the factors in someone's life that

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Speaker 1: allows them to live their best life? And you know,

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Speaker 1: with our culture, with our Indian backgrounds, are you eating

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Speaker 1: medicine for many years has been talking about this. Traditional

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Speaker 1: Chinese medicine has been talking about this. So for me,

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Speaker 1: it's not a battle of Eastern medicine versus Western medicine,

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Speaker 1: it's what is the best of Western, what is the

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Speaker 1: best of Eastern? How do we blend them together? And

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Speaker 1: I'd like to think that I've done that throughout my

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Speaker 1: career and hopefully in this book give people a real

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Speaker 1: practical toolkit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that and that definitely resonates. And I wanted one

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Speaker 2: thing that caught my eye when I was reading the book.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you, why have you never told

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Speaker 2: a patient to quit smoking, to just quit smoking? Why

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Speaker 2: have you never said that.

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Speaker 1: I've never told a patient that they must give up smoking,

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Speaker 1: Because I don't think that's my role. And I think

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Speaker 1: this is where we go wrong in medicine and frankly

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Speaker 1: in any relationship, because what is the relationship I have

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Speaker 1: in my patient? Says a doctor patient relationship? But this

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Speaker 1: principle kind of works parent, child, husband, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: These are just human relationships. Nobody wants to be told

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Speaker 1: what to do by somebody else. At some point, if

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Speaker 1: you're going to make transformative change, it's got to come

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Speaker 1: from within. So one of the things that I've always

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Speaker 1: rebelled against in my career as a doctor is this

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Speaker 1: rather paternalistic approach that we get taught in medical school

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Speaker 1: that doctor knows best. Patient comes in, you tell me

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Speaker 1: what the issue is. Then I'll tell you what's wrong

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Speaker 1: with you and what you need to do. Some people

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Speaker 1: may be able to make that approach work. I couldn't,

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Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why I couldn't. If a patient

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Speaker 1: comes in and asks for my opinion, that's very important.

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Speaker 1: One thing I've tried to change in my life over

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Speaker 1: the past few years is never to give unsolicited advice. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: if the patient's in in front of me and says,

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Speaker 1: dotr chatity, listen, I'm not feeling good. What impact is

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Speaker 1: smoking having on my health? I feel that my role

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Speaker 1: as a fellow human being is to explain to them

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Speaker 1: what impact I think smoking is having on their health. Now,

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Speaker 1: if at the end of that conversation, if I'm confident

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Speaker 1: that they've understood me and that they retained the information,

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Speaker 1: and they say, hey, dot strategy, I understand what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: But I get so much enjoyment out of smoking that

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Speaker 1: I'm prepared to put it with the consequences. I don't

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Speaker 1: feel that's my job to change their minds. I feel

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Speaker 1: it's a deep respect that I have for my patients.

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Speaker 1: If they understand it, I want to do it. I'm

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Speaker 1: okay with that. And I'll tell you, Jay, what I've

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Speaker 1: learned over the years is that by taking that approach,

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Speaker 1: I feel I've had really good compliance with my patients,

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Speaker 1: like really good compliance. Like a lot of doctors will say.

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Speaker 1: I have this course called Prescribing Life, some medisan that

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Speaker 1: I created with the Royal College of GPS with a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine, with a colleague, and we have trained

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Speaker 1: thousands of healthcare professionals around the world. And the principles

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Speaker 1: that I talk about in this book and my previous books,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things people would say to me

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Speaker 1: doctors would say, hey, actually listen, I get all this,

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Speaker 1: but patients don't listen to what we tell them. And

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Speaker 1: even the way that they phrase that is really interesting

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Speaker 1: to me. I don't tell my patients what to do.

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Speaker 1: It's not my role. I want to connect with my patients.

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Speaker 1: I want to then educate and empower them, but I

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Speaker 1: always want to connect first. So going back to your

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Speaker 1: initial question, why do I Why have I never told

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Speaker 1: a patient that they must give up spoking? It's my

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Speaker 1: role to do that. And here's what happens when you

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Speaker 1: treat people like an equal. You don't look down at them,

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Speaker 1: you don't think that you know better than them. What

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Speaker 1: will often happen. They may say I want to smoke, right,

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Speaker 1: I understand, but I enjoy this. They'll come back two

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Speaker 1: months later they'll be like, hey, dot's chash. You know

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Speaker 1: I said I wanted to keep smoking because I enjoy

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Speaker 1: it so much. Actually, I've been thinking, can you help

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Speaker 1: me start to change that? But often, if you say

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Speaker 1: you must give up smoking, it's going to give you cancer,

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Speaker 1: it's going to increase your risk of heart attacks. I

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Speaker 1: just don't think that works in the long term. You

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Speaker 1: make short term change. But as for the title of

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Speaker 1: this book, you don't make change that lasts. And that principle, frankly,

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Speaker 1: as I say, applies far beyond the dots of patient relationship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I love hearing that because I think

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Speaker 2: there's such a humanity to it. And also a big

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Speaker 2: part of making change that lasts is someone making change

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Speaker 2: for themselves exactly. They really believe that this change will

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Speaker 2: help them be a better parent, a better professional, a

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Speaker 2: better person, a better functioning human. And if I feel

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Speaker 2: pressured into making change, or if I feel pushed into

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Speaker 2: making change, then chances are I'm going to fall right

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Speaker 2: back into that habit. So if someone does come up

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Speaker 2: to you and say, doctor, chatatejy, how do I break

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Speaker 2: a bad habit? What would you say? Is the number

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Speaker 2: one advice for someone who says I want to break

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Speaker 2: a bad habit? It just can't happen. It's just never happened.

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Speaker 1: There's many ways of tackling bad habits, but if you're

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Speaker 1: asking me for the number one tip, it would be

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Speaker 1: related to our environments. Right, So we don't realize how

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Speaker 1: much our environment influences our behavior. I feel that being

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Speaker 1: here in La I've been here for a week now.

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Speaker 1: The people I've been hanging out with over the past

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Speaker 1: week are really into health and wellness. Right, So everyone

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Speaker 1: around me who I'm in for acting with, wants to

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Speaker 1: eat well, they want to go to bed early, they

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Speaker 1: want to look after themselves. So even though I'm away

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Speaker 1: from home, when I'm in this exciting city, I naturally respond. Right.

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Speaker 1: It's been really telling for me, and it really gave

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Speaker 1: me an insight as to that if you live in

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Speaker 1: an environment where your family, where your friends, where the

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Speaker 1: things you have in your house are encouraging, unhelpful, behaviors.

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Speaker 1: You're going to be struggling, right, You're going to be

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Speaker 1: constantly fighting your environment. So what does that mean for

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Speaker 1: an individual who's trying to say to me, I want

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Speaker 1: to eat less sugar, for example, which is very common

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Speaker 1: right especially at New Year. I have said to my

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Speaker 1: patients for years, if you don't want to eat it,

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Speaker 1: don't bring it into your house. Don't exercise willpower in

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Speaker 1: your house, because you have to exercise it as soon

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Speaker 1: as you walk out the front door. Now, that's been very,

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Speaker 1: very helpful for so many of my patients, and it's

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Speaker 1: kind of what I do in my own life. Even

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Speaker 1: though I really understand my internal triggers these days, which

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Speaker 1: I think is really important. I just don't make life

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Speaker 1: more difficult for myself than I need to. That I

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Speaker 1: won't bring into my house the potato chips, the chocolates,

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Speaker 1: the biscuits, whatever it might be, because I know I'm

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Speaker 1: human just like everyone else. At some point, I'll come

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Speaker 1: back stressed and tired, and I want to open the

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Speaker 1: cupboard and see what's there? Nothing wrong with that. If

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Speaker 1: people are doing that, I don't want them to feel

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Speaker 1: guilt or shame, but I think they need to understand

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Speaker 1: that if you have it there, it's going to be

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Speaker 1: harder for you. Now, related to that example, I have

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Speaker 1: an exercise, Joe, that I'd love to share with your audience,

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Speaker 1: if that's okay.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 1: As a doctor. Many people will say, dots Chashi, I

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Speaker 1: know that excess sugar is not helping me, but I

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Speaker 1: can't stop. Right. I'm really good in the day, but

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Speaker 1: at nine pm, do you do you recognize this? Jay?

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Speaker 1: I used to. I worked really hard at this. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I It's really common. Right, That's why people have been

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Speaker 1: you know, in adverts Icma is good during the day,

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Speaker 1: but at I their kids are in bed, or they're

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Speaker 1: sitting on the sofa, there's a box set on. I

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Speaker 1: really feel like ice cream. So I have this exercise

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Speaker 1: that I created for my patients so that it has

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Speaker 1: been so helpful that I've used with myself. Called the

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Speaker 1: three f's. Okay. The three f's are feel, feed, and find. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So if someone's listening Jay, and they have this issue,

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Speaker 1: which I suspect will be quite a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: I would say, Okay, you're sitting on your sofa, you're

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Speaker 1: craving the ice cream. Okay, just take a pause, just

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Speaker 1: for a second. Take a pause and ask yourself the

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Speaker 1: first F feel what are my feeling? Is it physical

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Speaker 1: hunger or is it emotional hunger? Okay, ah, well you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm actually not basically hungry. I had a

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Speaker 1: huge meal one hour ago. Oh, I feel a bit stressed,

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Speaker 1: I feel a bit lonely, whatever it might be. Then

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Speaker 1: go ahead and have it. Okay. I just want you

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Speaker 1: to start building in some self awareness, which is the

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Speaker 1: missing piece in behavior change with people. If you ask

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Speaker 1: me the big thing that we're missing. The next time

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Speaker 1: you're on the sofa and you're you can do this

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Speaker 1: all in one go if you want, but you know

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Speaker 1: some people find it difficult. So the next time you're

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Speaker 1: on the sofa, I would say, do the first F again,

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Speaker 1: what am I feeling? Then go to the second F,

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Speaker 1: which is feed. How does food feed that feeling? Ah? Oh,

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Speaker 1: I was feeling stressed. When I have I scream, at

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Speaker 1: least in the short term, I feel less stressed. Okay, cool.

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Speaker 1: Now you're developing a bit of an understanding as to

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Speaker 1: why I'm engaging with this behavior. Okay, great, If you

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Speaker 1: want to eat it, go ahead and eat it with

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Speaker 1: no gilt and no shame, Go and enjoy it, and

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Speaker 1: then the next time go through this f's what am

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Speaker 1: I feeling? How does food feed the feeling? Which is

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Speaker 1: the second F? And then the third F is fine?

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Speaker 1: Now that I know what the feeling is, Now that

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Speaker 1: I know how food feeds that feeling, can I find

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Speaker 1: an alternative behavior to feed that feeling? So it could be, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I feel stressed, That's why I go to sugar. What

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Speaker 1: else could I do instead of sugar? Oh? I really

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Speaker 1: like yoga. Maybe I'll go on YouTube and do a

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Speaker 1: term minute yoga sequence. Maybe you feel lonely. You've been

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Speaker 1: on zoom calls all day, you haven't seen your friends

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Speaker 1: or your partner, and it's a bit of a treat

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Speaker 1: to yourself in the evening. That's very common. You know,

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Speaker 1: people aren't hungry, but they just it's in a little

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Speaker 1: treat to themselves. Okay, how else could you nourish yourself? Oh? Well,

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Speaker 1: maybe I could run myself a bath and have a

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Speaker 1: ten to fifty minute bath to myself. Maybe I'm feeling lonely,

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Speaker 1: I could phone a friend or a parent or whatever

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Speaker 1: it might be. Every single behavior we engage with serves

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Speaker 1: a role in our life. You'll only change your behavior

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Speaker 1: in the long term if you understand the role it's playing.

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Speaker 1: So that is it's a very simple exercise. I've described

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Speaker 1: it through the lens of shit, okay, but the truth

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Speaker 1: is you can apply that to anything. You can apply

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Speaker 1: that to alcohol, three hours, doom, scrolling on Instagram, online pornography,

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Speaker 1: online shopping, whatever you want. It's a simple exercise, which

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Speaker 1: are my favorite kinds of exercises that can be very

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Speaker 1: very powerful once you start engaging with it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's spot on.

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Speaker 2: I think if you think about it, we're constantly chasing

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Speaker 2: a feeling, an emotional fix, and we usually turn to physical,

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Speaker 2: tangible things that we think are going to make us

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Speaker 2: feel that way. Right, as you said, like, really, what

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to do is lower stress, and I've just

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Speaker 2: created the mechanism to think, if I want to lower stress,

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Speaker 2: I need to indulge in ice cream. And that's the

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Speaker 2: connection we've made. Whereas, like you're saying, there's so many

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Speaker 2: other ways and actually could be a natural source of sugar.

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Speaker 2: It could be a low sugar product if that's what

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Speaker 2: you're after. It could be as you said, a yoga session,

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Speaker 2: breath work, whatever, it may be.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: What I find though, is that when you first try

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Speaker 2: and make that change, it literally feels like you're fighting

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Speaker 2: against yourself, right. It almost feels like there's this internal battle.

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Speaker 2: And I'm at the point now, having worked on some

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Speaker 2: of these things for a while, I'm at a point

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Speaker 2: now where I believe my taste buds have actually changed exactly.

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Speaker 2: The feeling and the desire is evolved, and I'm able

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Speaker 2: to deal with it in a healthier way.

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Speaker 1: But there's that middle part where you feel like you're

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Speaker 1: just like, come on, I've got to give in.

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Speaker 2: I've got to give in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you said two key words there for me, and

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Speaker 1: these are the two missing words I think in behavior change,

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Speaker 1: internal struggle. This is really what I'm trying to get

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Speaker 1: across to people. Every single behavior is downstream, usually from

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Speaker 1: something inside you. And we're living in a world where

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Speaker 1: we want to consume more and more information, get more

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Speaker 1: and more knowledge, which is helpful up to a point.

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Speaker 1: Now I'll come back to that point. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's a really important one. I just want to that's

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Speaker 1: what you said about it feeling difficult. Out of those

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Speaker 1: three f's, the most important F is the first one.

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Speaker 1: Why because it suddenly just breaks you out of your

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Speaker 1: repetitive cycle. I feel stressed, I want so my scream,

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Speaker 1: I go to the freezer, and before I know it,

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Speaker 1: I've had half the tub. That is very, very common.

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Speaker 1: You think that's who you are. It's not who you are,

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Speaker 1: it's who you've become, and you can unbecome it if

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Speaker 1: you start to do that first F. It is simply

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Speaker 1: the knowledge that I can take a pause. There is

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Speaker 1: a gap between the stimulus and the response when you

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Speaker 1: are repeating your behavior's day to day, when they become habits,

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Speaker 1: whether good habits or unhealthy habits, there's no gap. There's

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Speaker 1: a feeling, there's a stimulus, and there's a response, usually

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Speaker 1: an unhealthy response in this current climate right for many people,

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Speaker 1: So that first F creates a gap. Now often say yes,

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Speaker 1: not's actually but you know and now that I'm aware,

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Speaker 1: so what what can I do? I'm like, wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: Ninety percent of change in my experience is that first

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Speaker 1: F is understanding, Oh, this is why I'm going to it. Sure,

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Speaker 1: it may take a few weeks, it may take a

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Speaker 1: few months to really work on that relationship and start

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Speaker 1: to tweak it, because how long did it take you

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Speaker 1: to develop this relationship. Maybe you've been using sugar to

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Speaker 1: manage stress for twenty years. You're not going to change

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Speaker 1: that in one week in January just because you wake

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Speaker 1: up thinking I want to make this year the best

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Speaker 1: year of my life, You're not going to It is

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Speaker 1: a process of change. But what people miss Jay, for

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Speaker 1: me is that that process where you learn what this

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Speaker 1: behavior is doing for you. You struggle, you sometimes can't make

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Speaker 1: the change that you want, other times you can. That

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Speaker 1: process is where the gold is. That's when you're learning

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Speaker 1: about yourself. That's you get the mastery about yourself. Oh

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Speaker 1: I always when I have a row with my partner,

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Speaker 1: I don't feel good, so yeah, I want sugar. Or

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Speaker 1: when I'm alone or I'm traveling for work and I'm

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Speaker 1: away from my wife and my kids, that's when i

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Speaker 1: just want to spend three hours on Instagram because I'm

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Speaker 1: looking for connection. That's where the gold lies. And for me, Jay,

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Speaker 1: the most important chatter in this book is chapter one,

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Speaker 1: which is called trust Yourself. And I don't think we're

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Speaker 1: talking about this enough in the health and wellness space.

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Speaker 1: People are getting confused. Right, you must get this on

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Speaker 1: your show, like I do on my podcast, right, this

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Speaker 1: idea that despite our best efforts at trying to navigate

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Speaker 1: the complexity. What I often find, Jay, is people will

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Speaker 1: say to me, not often, but it happens enough that

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Speaker 1: I know that this is an issue. Chat You know,

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Speaker 1: two months ago, you had this credential expert from Harvard's

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Speaker 1: and they said this diet is really good, like a

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Speaker 1: Keith to jendera is really good for mental health. And

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Speaker 1: they sound really trustworthy. They've got all the credentials, and

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Speaker 1: they've quoted four or five research studies to back up

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Speaker 1: what they think, and I thought, okay, amazing. And then

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Speaker 1: last week you spoke to another doctor, also well credentialed,

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Speaker 1: who said, no, a vegan diet or a whole food

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Speaker 1: plan basedite is best for mental health, and presented five

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Speaker 1: studies to support what they have to say. People would

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Speaker 1: contact me and say, Chatty, I'm really confused. Right, both

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Speaker 1: of those experts they sound great, They've all got research

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Speaker 1: to back up what they're saying. I don't know which

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Speaker 1: experts to trust. And Jay, what I've realized is that's

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Speaker 1: the wrong question. The more helpful question, the more powerful question,

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Speaker 1: is not which experts should I trust? It's why do

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Speaker 1: I no longer trust myself? Yeah? That is the magic

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Speaker 1: to behavior change. You have to start tuning into the

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Speaker 1: signals your body is giving you. Using that example, I

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Speaker 1: would say to someone, hey, I tell you what, why

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Speaker 1: do you have to choose which one's right? Maybe they're

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Speaker 1: both right for certain people, but they're not right for anyone. Right,

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Speaker 1: So I would say, Okay, try this expert started for

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Speaker 1: four weeks, and whilst you're trying its, pay attention. Pay

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Speaker 1: attention to what's going on. What's your energy like, what's

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Speaker 1: your vitality, how are your relationships, how's your sleep, how's

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Speaker 1: your focus, how's your concentration? Pay attention. I go, okay,

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Speaker 1: I try that for four weeks. Now, let me try

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Speaker 1: this other person's start for four weeks, and again, pay attention.

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Speaker 1: I promise if you start paying attention, you'll very quickly

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Speaker 1: find out what is the right diet for you at

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Speaker 1: that moment in your life. And I feel that we're

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Speaker 1: not talking about this enough. We're still we've we've got

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Speaker 1: to appoint Jay where we've outsourced our own inner expertise

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Speaker 1: to external experts. I'm not saying ignore external experts. Right,

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Speaker 1: you have some great experts on your show each week.

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Speaker 1: I have some great experts on my podcast each week.

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Speaker 1: But you should listen to their advice and put it

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Speaker 1: through your own filter, and then you figure out what

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Speaker 1: works for you. And honestly, if you say, what is

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Speaker 1: the key thing you've learned in twenty three years of

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Speaker 1: seeing patients, I've seen tens of thousands of patients. I've

428
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: learned many things, But I would say no one approach

429
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: works for everyone. It just doesn't. And when we try

430
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: and make it work for everyone, it's a problem because

431
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: people feel like failures. Right. People feel, oh, I'm following

432
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: the experts advice. I'm doing what they said to do.

433
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: It's not working. There must be something wrong with me.

434
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: They start to feel guilty, they start to feel like

435
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 1: they're a loser, they start to have shame. Those things

436
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: never lead to long term behavior change. And you know

437
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: the other thing, Jay, I've learned and I love your

438
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: view on this because I think it probably resonates with

439
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: the way you see the world. I think we focus

440
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: too much on the behavior. For me, it's the energy

441
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: behind the behavior that's the most important thing. You need

442
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: to go what's behind the behavior. And I've realized that

443
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 1: in life, all behaviors either come from the energy of

444
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: love or the energy of fear. If it's coming from

445
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: the energy of fear, so guilt, shame, I'm not good enough,

446
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: those changes will not last in the long term. I've

447
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: been doing this a long time. I have seen it.

448
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: It lasts for January, it lasts for a few months.

449
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: It doesn't lead to long term transformation because your behaviors

450
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: are in conflicts with the way that you see yourself.

451
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: If it's coming from an energy of love, that I

452
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: like who I am, I want to improve my life,

453
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: that I'm going to be compassionate to myself, those changes.

454
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: It can be the same behaviors, working out, eating well,

455
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: going to bed on time, getting it whatever it might be.

456
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: It can be the same behavior. But if the energy

457
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: behind it is from the energy of love, that's when

458
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: the changes start to become long term, and I really

459
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: get I don't get frustrated. Nothing frustraights anymore. Really, if

460
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: I'm completely honest, because I've been doing the inner work

461
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: for many years, I just I can stay quite detached

462
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: from things. I just see them for what they are.

463
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: But as a doctor, I guess I believe we made

464
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: behavior change so difficult, Jay, I don't even say it's

465
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: hard anyone. I'll tell you why. I don't say that.

466
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: I used to say, you know, I know it can

467
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: feel hard. I know it's hard as a way trying

468
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: to empathize with people. But if we say, if we

469
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: constantly say, oh, it's difficult, Oh it's going to be hard,

470
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: we're prejudging the experience for people. Sure it may feel challenging,

471
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: but it doesn't always have to. And I've experienced that myself.

472
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: So five years ago, Jay, I would have a very hard,

473
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: very harsh, inner voice. So on January the first, I

474
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 1: would be very much I'm going to meditate this year,

475
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: like twenty minutes a day, and I do it for

476
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: fourteen days and I feel like I'm rocking. Yeah, this

477
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: is a I've got meditation down this year that I

478
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: miss a day that the self taught would start. Man,

479
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: you couldn't do it, You couldn't do it wrong? And

480
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,239
Speaker 1: could you you know you're a loser whatever. I used

481
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: to have a really harsh, negative voice not that long ago,

482
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: but I have completely changed it through all the things

483
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: that I share in this book. Right, I've completely changed it.

484
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: Back then, behavior change felt difficult because it was in

485
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: conflict with how I saw myself. Now that I liked myself.

486
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: Dare I say, talking to a fellow brit that I

487
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: love myself? Right? Can you imagine in the UK saying

488
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: that you know? I do, though not in a narcissistic way.

489
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: But I like who I am. I think I'm a

490
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: nice guy. I'm kind, I'm compassionate, I help people. I'm

491
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: no longer competitive, as I've talked to you about on

492
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: a previous episode on your show, like, I just want

493
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: to raise people up when you feel like that, and

494
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: everyone can feel like that if they know which leads

495
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: to turn. But hate you change becomes so much easier

496
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: because you're not trying to fight yourself. Does that what

497
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: make sense?

498
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense. I mean two things

499
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: came to mind as you were speaking. The first was

500
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 2: you can't change something you hate. You can only change

501
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 2: something you love, and that includes yourself. Because if you

502
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: hate something, how much energy will you give it, how

503
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: much focus will you give it, how much direction will

504
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 2: you give it? Whereas when you love something, you'll be

505
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: present with it, You'll be right there with it. And

506
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: I feel we're trying to hate ourselves into change, And

507
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 2: you're so right. I remember years ago as well, like

508
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: having a very very harsh negative in a voice, and

509
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: it did all the things you said. I would shame myself,

510
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: I would guilt myself, I would judge myself, and none

511
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: of that helped me change. If anything, it took longer

512
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: for me to get back to where I wanted to

513
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 2: get to, because when you fall off after fourteen days

514
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: of meditation, now, when you're judging and guilting and shaming yourself,

515
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 2: you feel like you can't do the thing unless you

516
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: can be perfect.

517
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you go to more unhelpful behaviors. And

518
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: in some ways, I've realized you you would have been

519
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: better off never doing those fourteen days in the first place,

520
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: because you feel like a failure. And you know, it's interesting.

521
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: Someone once asked me about, what are your non negotiables wronging.

522
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: I've realized, Jaye, I no longer have any, because a

523
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 1: non negotiable to me feels like a harsh rule. So

524
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: let's use that through the lens of this meditation practice.

525
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: Where I tried for fourteen days, I miss one day.

526
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: I beat myself up. Now, yeah, I meditate most mornings,

527
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: but not every morning, and if I miss, I'm like, okay, yeah,

528
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: sure I didn't do it today. Oh I'm a better person.

529
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: I'm a bit calmer when I do. And I say, yeah,

530
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: I must make sure I do that tomorrow. It's a

531
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: very different relationship. That energy behind the behavior is completely different.

532
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: So I wasn't like you, j One. I want to

533
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: get practical for people. So I have these three questions

534
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: I ask myself every morning. But one of those questions

535
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: I think really applies here. So you teach an audience

536
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: Jay on a consistent basis about living an intentional life,

537
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: a purposeful life, right, And I think a lot of

538
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: people don't realize how powerful the mornings are. We all

539
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: have a morning routine, whether we think we do or not.

540
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: The question is are we intentional about it? Have we

541
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: thought about the consequences of how we start each day?

542
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: Because somebody say, oh, they're not for me. You know,

543
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: it's a bit cliche, this idea of a morning routine,

544
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. And I'm like, no, no, you've

545
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: got a routine. You just made it a thought about it.

546
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: So what I've learned Shay over the years is that

547
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: so many of our thoughts our feelings. Our behaviors are

548
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: downstream from the content we consume. So if you wake

549
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: up and the first thing you do is going on

550
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: to your phone and go on the news and see

551
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: the negativity that the news is telling us from all

552
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: over the world. You go onto your work emails and

553
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: see the backlog that you didn't complete, or whatever it

554
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: might be. You go into social media and get caught

555
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: up in an argument or whatever it might be. Does

556
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: it really surprise you that half an hour later you

557
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: may be a little reactive with your kids or your partner,

558
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: or you may feel a little negative about the state

559
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: of the world. When you look at it like that,

560
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: I think it's quite obvious if that's what you're inputting

561
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: into your brain. Think about it as software. That's what

562
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: you're inputting in. Of course, the outputs straight after that.

563
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: For many people it's going to be negative as well.

564
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: If you have a more intentional start to your day

565
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: with a bit more positivity, don't I'm not talking about

566
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: toxic positive. Is your fake positivity just intentionally going Whether

567
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: it's gratitude. I mean, one of the questions that I

568
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: ask is a gratitude question. What is one thing I

569
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: deeply appreciate about my life. It helps shift your mindset

570
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: and where you're going to place your attention. But where

571
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: I finish my morning routine is with this what I

572
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: considered to be a very powerful question, What quality would

573
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: I like to showcase to the world today. It's a

574
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: simple question, but it's very very powerful because it forces you. Yeah,

575
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: let me rephrase that. I don't even like using the

576
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: word force anymore. It feels a bit of an aggressive word, right,

577
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: It doesn't. It feels like it's coming from the energy

578
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: of fear rather than the energy of love. I have

579
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: the opportunity each morning with that question to set the

580
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: intention of how I wish to show up. So often

581
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: it will be I wish to showcase the quality of

582
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: patience today or compassion, and you write it down. I

583
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: write it down in my journal and I think about it.

584
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: What would it look like today to show the quality

585
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: of patience or compassion? Ah? You know, if I get

586
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: caught up in a a in a traffic I'm not

587
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: going to stop rating people. I'm just gonna smile and

588
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: be kind. If I get an email I maybe don't like,

589
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to just take a break and naturally not

590
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: respond In the moment. If my wife says this to

591
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: me or whatever about the dishes or whatever, I'm just

592
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: going to go, hey, it's cool.

593
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 2: You know.

594
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: Maybe she's having a bad day and I'm just going

595
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,959
Speaker 1: to smile and be compassionate. It sounds too simple to work.

596
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: This is transformed. It really works now just by sending

597
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: the intention. It doesn't mean that you're going to be perfect.

598
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: So I have a couple of questions I asked myself

599
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: in the evening, which helps balance this What went well

600
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: today and what can I do differently tomorrow? So what

601
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: went well today could be again it's a form of gratitude.

602
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: It could be that, you know what, I had a

603
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: really busy day, I didn't take a lunch break, I

604
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: got home late, but I still found twenty minutes to

605
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: make my family a home cooked meal instead of ordering

606
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: takeout or whatever. It might be. Okay, you're just going

607
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: because we have a negativity bias. Instead of focusing on

608
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: all the things that you didn't get done and the

609
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: stress in your day and what you know, how you

610
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: behaved or whatever, you're putting attention on what you did do,

611
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: which I think is very powerful. But then the second

612
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: part of that question, Jay, is really interesting. What can

613
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: I do differently tomorrow? So it could be that you say,

614
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: you know what, This morning I said I was going

615
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: to be showed the world the quality of compassion. But

616
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: at lunchtime or at four pm, I was really tired.

617
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: I didn't like the email that my colleagues sent me,

618
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: and I quickly sent an annoyed email back. Okay, no

619
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: worries again. We're looking for love, not fear. So you

620
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: can say, Ah, what I can do differently tomorrow is

621
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: I can try harder tomorrow if that same situation arrives,

622
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to respond differently. And I tell you sure,

623
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: doing this will one day may not do much. You

624
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: do that for seven days or dare I say even

625
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: thirty days, the way you experience the world will be

626
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: completely different. You will have made this small, like one

627
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: degree shift each day that in the moment doesn't feel

628
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,719
Speaker 1: like anything. Thirty days later, you will be like a

629
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: different person. I've been doing this, sub Jay for maybe

630
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: five years now, and like I was sharing with you

631
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: before the mices were rolling, I've never felt this good,

632
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: Like I have this deep sense of peace these days

633
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: and inner calm, and I've worked at it some of

634
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: the things I've shared already, many things I haven't shared

635
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: that I put in this book. This is available to everyone, Jay.

636
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: I absolutely believe that I have seen throughout my career

637
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: people in the darkest of places, suicidal patients who through

638
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: these kind of practices, have managed to completely turn their

639
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: lives around. It is possible to everyone. But I think

640
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: we're going about change a lot of the time in

641
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: the wrong places. Right. We talk about creating healthy habits.

642
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: It's important, and I've written a book about that in

643
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: the past, and I know the rules of healthy habit form,

644
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: you know, make it easy stick on the new behavior

645
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: onto an existing habit. Those things are very, very helpful,

646
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: but they still don't get to the roots. And my

647
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 1: attempt with this book is to help people go no, no, no,

648
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: there are things that you don't know that are driving

649
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: you in your life. A lot of people don't realize, Jay,

650
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 1: that their behaviors are driven by their beliefs. So if

651
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,959
Speaker 1: you believe that somebody out there knows what is best

652
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: for you more than you, that is going to dictate

653
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: your behaviors. Your belief is that someone else knows better,

654
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: so you're going to be every few months looking for

655
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: a new expert to follow. Every January, you're going to

656
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: buy a new health book to say, oh, you need

657
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: to go on a thirty day sugar details, you need

658
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: to cut out alcohol, you used to cut it, ultra

659
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: processed foods. These things are all well and good. But

660
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: I submit to you, Jay, that many people there, I

661
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: say it, most people who are listening to shows like

662
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: yours or mine kind of already know that excess sugar

663
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: is not helping them, or excess alcohol is not helping them.

664
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: I don't think they need more external knowledge of oh

665
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: alcohol will do this to your liver, or sugar will

666
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 1: do this to people know that they need more internal knowledge.

667
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: They need insights, intuition, and in my view, the way

668
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: you develop that is with some intentional time each day,

669
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: these questions, meditation, journaling. If you're constantly in your life,

670
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: you never step out of it to reflect on it.

671
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: It's not about the behavior, it's about the energy behind

672
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: the behavior.

673
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it resonates very strongly with me. And to kind

674
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 2: of encapsulate what you're saying, what I'm hearing, and what

675
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: I've found to be true is that if you really

676
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 2: want to make a change, it comes down to your

677
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 2: most repeated thought, your most repeated words, and your most

678
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 2: repeated actions. And what you find is you already have

679
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: a most repeated thought, I'm not good enough, I can't

680
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 2: do it, that life's not for me. And this goes

681
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 2: back to your point, that's what your beliefs are. Your

682
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: beliefs suggest your most repeated thoughts, and now it feels

683
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 2: like that's who you are, and then naturally those become

684
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 2: your words. So when someone says to you, like, oh,

685
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: how's that new habit going, or you know, how's the

686
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: workout going or whatever, you go, oh, you know, I can't.

687
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: I can't keep up exactly, and now you keep repeating.

688
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 2: Then everyone you meet you go, oh, yeah, I gave

689
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: up after seven days. And now that's your language, and

690
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: then that naturally leads on to your actions. And so

691
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, which I really appreciate because it

692
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 2: is harder to talk about which is what is the root.

693
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 2: But for all of us, anyone who's had a lasting change,

694
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: it's been a root issue that's been solved always.

695
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: And this is why I'm so passionate Jay about this idea.

696
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 1: You know, I've been in this health and wellness space

697
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: publicly for ten years now and for all the best

698
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: benefits of this increase in information, and of course there

699
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: are many like people are better educated now than ever

700
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: before about health and wellness and what we can do.

701
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: But we have to confronts a very uncomfortable truth, which is,

702
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: despite all of this increasing information, people are getting physically

703
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: and mentally more sick. So I was trying to solve

704
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: this problem. I was trying to go I don't want

705
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,919
Speaker 1: to just write another book with more information on what

706
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: you should do. I want to help people understand why

707
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: they are doing it, and again talking to root causes

708
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: and maybe feeding back to what you've just said. This

709
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: I think is the most undertaught aspect. This is the

710
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: most underappreciated aspects of health. For me, let me make

711
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: it really practical for people. Many of us are trying

712
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 1: to change our behaviors. And I know I've used sugar

713
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: and alcohol a few times just because I think they're

714
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: quite common and quite relatable for people. People don't understand

715
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: that the way they interact with other people directly affects

716
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: that behavior. So for example, you're driving to work in

717
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 1: the morning and there's a bit of traffic and someone

718
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: cuts in front of you. Okay, we've all seen it,

719
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: maybe we've experienced it where we start to create all

720
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 1: this mental noise. Oh my god, stupid driver. They shouldn't

721
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: have done that. They need their eyes checked, whatever it

722
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: might be. And we think that we're entitled to do that,

723
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,919
Speaker 1: and we are right. I'm not here to change anyone, right,

724
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: You've got to change yourself. You're entitled to react like that.

725
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: Just know that there's a consequence. One of the themes

726
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: that underpins every chapter in this book is that emotional

727
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: stress is not neutral. So we think about physical stress,

728
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: but we don't think about emotional stress. So a driver

729
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: cuts in front of you. There are many ways to

730
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 1: react to that situation. If you take a disempowering narrative

731
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: and create all of this anger and stress and noise

732
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:58,919
Speaker 1: in your head, you've generated emotional stress. You will need

733
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: to neut that emotional stress in some way or another. Now,

734
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: you could do it in a healthy way by going

735
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: for a walk or going to the gym. Usually what

736
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: people do when it gets to the office is they

737
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: need an extra coffee, They need to go to the

738
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: vending machine and get some sugar. They need an extra drink.

739
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: After work, and then they think, Oh, I'm drinking too

740
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 1: much in the evening or I'm eating too much sugar.

741
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: I need to change that. But they don't realize that

742
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: actually the way they dealt with that driver on the

743
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: road that day, because it's not just that, that's the

744
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: pattern they use for everything in their life. I say

745
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: this with an open heart. We almost make ourselves a

746
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: victim to life. We think that the way we feel

747
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: is down to the way other people treat us. And

748
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: I understand that we like other people to treat us well.

749
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: But you can cultivate the skill of not having your

750
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: inner state as dependent on the world around you. So

751
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: you can develop the skill, and I share how to

752
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: in this book. With practice, you can basically go, Wow,

753
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 1: what other story could I create here? Oh, maybe that

754
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: mother has had a sick child up all night with

755
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: earache and they're just rushing. Maybe she's on her last

756
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: warning with her boss, and actually, if she's late one

757
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: more time, she's going to lose her job, and that's

758
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 1: how she feeds her family. Right, the truth doesn't matter

759
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: for your inner well being, It really doesn't. And you

760
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 1: can choose to start looking at the world this way

761
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,760
Speaker 1: and what you will find. Yes, it might feel challenging

762
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: at first, so you have to consciously think about it,

763
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: maybe not in the moment, maybe in the evening. And

764
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: I'll share a practice that can help people with that.

765
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: But over time it becomes your default. Whereas now you know,

766
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: I've been in LA traffic this week. I've heard you

767
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: guys talk about it all the time. Oh, I've experienced it.

768
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm running late for some interviews. I'm just totally cheating.

769
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't do anything about this. Nothing I

770
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: can do. You can train that response. And I think

771
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: last time I came on your podcast, Jay, I think

772
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: I shared the story of Edith Eager, the ninety three

773
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: year old lady who was in Auschwitz when she was sixteen,

774
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: and I shared the powerful narratives she would use in

775
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: her mind to reframe her existence there. And I won't

776
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: tell that story again, but I'll remind people of the

777
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: final thing that Edith Eager told me when she came

778
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: on my podcast. She said to me, Dr Chaschi, I

779
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: have lived in Auschwitz, and I can tell you the

780
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: greatest prison you will ever live inside is the prison

781
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: you create inside your own mind. And the penny dropped

782
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,919
Speaker 1: for me Jay in that conversation. Literally, I thought, that's it.

783
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: That's what we're all doing. We're interacting with the world

784
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: with other people, were creating these disempowering narratives, were making

785
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 1: ourselves a victim to the world around us, without realizing

786
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: that we have the power to shape the narrative on

787
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: every single situation. Most situations in life. You could even

788
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: say all, but that gets a bit triggering for people.

789
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: So I say most situations in life are neutral. It's

790
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: the perspective we take on that situation that determines its impact.

791
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: You want to change your behaviors. If you're someone who

792
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: has been trying to make changes in January for the

793
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 1: last ten years, and you keep buying a new book,

794
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: and you keep trying a new detox pan and whatever,

795
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 1: and you're still ending up where you were the year before,

796
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: you have to ask yourself the question, am I taking

797
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: the right approach? Is there something I'm missing? Is it

798
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: more external information I need or more internal information?

799
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? And I really appreciate the direction of getting people

800
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 2: to trust themselves. I mean I've seen that time and

801
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 2: time again. I remember a couple of months ago, I

802
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 2: was trying a really high protein diet the amount that's recommended,

803
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 2: and I just it didn't work for me. It just

804
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: didn't work for me, Like trying to eat my body

805
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 2: weight in protein was far too much for me personally,

806
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: and I didn't feel good. I was feeling more tired,

807
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: I was feeling actually more bloated. I was. It just

808
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: didn't work. And it was like, well, this is all

809
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 2: the studies say this, all the research says.

810
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: Even within those studies that are done right, we think

811
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: the studies show this when you look into most scientific studies. Right,

812
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: let me try and make it super simple to understand

813
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: for people. Let's say there was a study done where

814
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: one hundred people were put on one diet and one

815
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: hundred people put on another diet, which one is better?

816
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: And then on balance we'll say, oh, this one, this

817
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: one statistically was better, But it doesn't mean that one

818
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: hundred percent of the people were better on that one.

819
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: There would have been some people who were better on

820
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: the other one, but overall we say that one. What

821
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: we're saying is that that one works for the most

822
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: people in that study. It doesn't mean it will for you.

823
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: And this is where I think the differences between researchers

824
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: and clinicians. You know, I I feel one thing I'm

825
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: really good at, and again I don't say this with

826
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: any arrogance. I feel I'm really good at connecting with

827
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: my patients and I've managed to help them make transformative change,

828
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: many of them throughout their careers. And i've, as you know,

829
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: I even showcase what I do on BBC one and

830
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: back in twenty fifteen to twenty seventeen, where families who

831
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: were sick were under GPS, were under specialists with type

832
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 1: two diabetes, panic atats, fibromalgia, menopausal symptoms, irristol bound syndrome.

833
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: I either helped everyone fully reverse their conditions or get

834
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: them significantly better, like eighty percent better in just six weeks,

835
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: using nutrition, lifestyle and mindset. That's not blaming people. It's

836
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: showing people, educating them that, oh, the way you do

837
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 1: things matters. How you live each day, the choices you make,

838
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: the way you taught to each other. Right, these things

839
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: really play a role. And Jay, I often think, you know,

840
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this on the plane over to

841
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: LA this time wrong and why do you have such

842
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 1: a I don't know if I can call it a

843
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 1: unique perspective on health, but it's not the normal perspective.

844
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: I would say that most medical dots that would you

845
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: agree with that? Yeah?

846
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 2: Mostly yeah, compared to most absolutely.

847
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: And I think one of the reasons why, and there's

848
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,919
Speaker 1: many reasons, including my cultural upbringing probably similar to yours,

849
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: where we grow up with this more holistic approach, these

850
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: ideas that food is medicine, all those kind of ideas.

851
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: But I think my filming that BBC documentary series over

852
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: two or three years, I think it gave me an

853
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: insight that very few doctors ever get. Even if you're

854
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: a disenchanted doctor and you think ten minutes is not enough,

855
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: which it isn't, and you figure out a way to

856
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: spend one hour with your patients. What I learned on

857
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: filming that series when I would live alongside families for

858
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: four to six weeks, sometimes i'd stay overnight in their house. Okay,

859
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: I got to see stuff that people rarely get to see.

860
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 1: I got to see, oh, wow, they've got these symptoms.

861
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 1: But I'm noticing how the husband and wife are talking

862
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: to each other in the evening. Oh, I wonder how

863
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: that relationship is impacting their fiscal health. And I would

864
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: do this with all kinds of families in all different

865
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: areas of the UK. So it gave me a rather

866
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: unique insight where this idea is that literally ninety nine

867
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: percent of what happens to your health. I know this

868
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: sounds worthly obvious. It's outside the doctor surgery. It's how

869
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: you live your life, it's how you approach adversity, and

870
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: so I think it's kind of given me this rather

871
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: unique view. I think my twenty three years of clinical

872
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: practice has also taught me that there's no one white approach.

873
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: So you, as you say, you can hear all the

874
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: experts online you want telling you about the high protein

875
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: that you need, and you could keep trying it, or

876
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: you go, wait, well, you know what, I don't think

877
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: that's all right approach for me at this point in

878
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: my life. And that secondary bit is another key piece.

879
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: It might be later, but right now for the state

880
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: of your life and your health, it's not work with

881
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,399
Speaker 1: you and we need to learn to trust ourselves more.

882
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I like that edition as well. What's your take.

883
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about self awareness and the importance

884
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,479
Speaker 2: of it. Obviously right now everyone's getting really excited about

885
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 2: fitness trackers. What's your take on them?

886
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: There's a section on this actually in the book, because

887
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: I think it's a really important thing to think about.

888
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: So I currently have one on. I've been slow to

889
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: adopt fitness trackers, and i'll tell you why. A key

890
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: theme in this book is about reliance and that we're

891
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: overly reliant on things outside of ourselves, on people treating

892
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: us well, on all kinds of things, expert knowledge, whatever

893
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: it might be, and we need to become what I

894
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: say in the book is minimally reliant, not zero reliance,

895
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: but less reliance. I think trackers, health trackers, fitness trackers

896
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: can be good and they can also be bad. It

897
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: depends on who you are. So we've got all these,

898
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,919
Speaker 1: you know, new fitness trackers, but let's talk about another

899
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: kind of tracker that's been around for a while. A

900
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: blood pressure monitor, right, They've been around for thirty forty

901
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: years something like that. That's a form of health tracker.

902
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not as high tech as some of these

903
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: new ones, but it's a form of health tracker. And

904
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: what I would notice Jay in my practice for years,

905
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: is that many people would say, dot cha, Actually, should

906
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: I buy one from the pharmacy and use it at home?

907
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: And Initially I would say, yeah, great idea, Then you

908
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: can check what your blood pressure's doing. And then what

909
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: I noticed is that, oh wow, maybe fifty percent of

910
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: people this is a rough guess, it's not a scientific study.

911
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: Half of my patients would use regular blood pressure checks

912
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: at home to empower them, right, So they'd be like,

913
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 1: oh wow, okay, it's going a bit high. Now what's

914
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: going on? And they'd use it in a very helpful

915
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: way to get to know themselves better and make positive changes.

916
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 1: The other half, I think it was harmful for them.

917
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 1: They would get stressed out, they would check it four

918
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: times a day, they would get health anxiety, and that

919
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: would paralyze them. So I thought, wow, it's not the

920
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: tracker itself that's the issue. It's our relationship to the tracker.

921
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: That's the theme throughout this conversation. It's our relationship to it.

922
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: So if you're someone who can look at that tracker,

923
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: whether it's an Apple watch or a whoop band or

924
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 1: an or or whatever, you know, whatever, you've got a garment.

925
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: You know, if you're able to use it to help

926
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 1: you get to know yourself better and it helps you

927
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: make positive changes, I think they can be very very helpful.

928
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 1: In fact, I'm on a two month experiment at the

929
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 1: moment with this one that I've got on, and it's

930
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 1: really helping me understand myself bad at Oh this is

931
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: what my heart rate variability is like when I eat

932
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: a bit later at night, or you know, when I've

933
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 1: been on a transatlantic flight. Whatever. I'm like, I'm learning

934
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 1: about myself. I'm getting a deeper understanding of myself through this. Now.

935
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: I think it'd be very helpful. But some people have

936
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: got a very unhealthy relationship with them. They're obsessed with them.

937
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: If the battery's not working, they start to stress out. Oh,

938
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: I don't know how to exist. And the truth is

939
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: there are some scientific studies which show us that they

940
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: can be problematic. So there was one study which I

941
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: write about in the book, where in essence, a simplified

942
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: way of describing it is, they took these groups of

943
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 1: people and put them in the lab. One group were

944
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: only allowed to sleep for five hours. The other group

945
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,359
Speaker 1: were allowed to sleep for eight towers right, but there's

946
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: no clocks anywhere. And then they told the group who

947
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: slept for five hours that they slept for eight hours,

948
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: and the group that slept for eight towers that they'd

949
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: only sat for five hours, and that impacts it that

950
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: energy love us through the day and impacted their physiology. Right.

951
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: So that's a really powerful study. And there's many more

952
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: like that, which all that does for me. Again, let's

953
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: not get let's not use that study to disempower us.

954
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: That's interesting. What does that show? It shows that some

955
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: people can have an unhealthy relationship with these devices. Some

956
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: people can have a helpful one. And if I think

957
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: about that through the lens of me and my wife, right,

958
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: I love getting data. I can be very detached from it.

959
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't affect me. If I see a low readiness

960
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: score in the morning, I can be detached from that

961
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: and go wow, I can still perform even with that. Right,

962
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: I will often not check for days, right or once

963
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: a day, once every two days, I'll go on and

964
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: check my data. I don't want to become dependent or reliant.

965
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: That's the key. So I can't tell you, Jay, are

966
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,879
Speaker 1: these good or bad? It depends on who you are

967
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: and what's your relationship to that device. Yeah, and only

968
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: you will be able to answer that question for yourself.

969
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great answer. It's a great answer. And

970
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 2: I fully agree. I think it goes back to what

971
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 2: the common theme is. As you said, it's our interpretation

972
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 2: of the event, of the data, of the information. And

973
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 2: I guess, then, going back to what you said earlier,

974
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:14,280
Speaker 2: your only non negotiable has become being kinder to yourself,

975
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 2: Like that is your non negotiable, Like the ability to

976
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: always turn towards not judging, not shaming, not guilty, but

977
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: giving yourself that space and grace to just operate and

978
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 2: think it through.

979
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny that words are interesting, aren't they. I

980
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: guess the word non negotiable for me these days, maybe

981
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: because I used to have such a negative voice in

982
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: my head. I kind of feel that everything's negotiable in life, right,

983
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: So I don't know. Let's take an example violence. Right.

984
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: I could say that I'm a calm person and I

985
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: would never be violent, right, But hold on, there's always

986
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: a situation in life that might challenge that. What if

987
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 1: I was on a street with my two beautiful children

988
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 1: and someone was trying to attack me or tack them,

989
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: would I turn to violence to protect them?

990
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 2: Yeah?

991
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 1: I think I would. I wouldn't intentionally want to do that,

992
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 1: So I could say that being kind and compassionate and

993
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: nonviolent is a non negotiable or I could be a

994
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: bit more realistic and go, well, I think in ninety

995
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: nine point nine percent of situations in life, I'm going

996
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: to be kind and compassionate, or I'm going to certainly

997
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: have the intention to be. But I can foresee a

998
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: situation whereby yeah, maybe I would turn to violence. Do

999
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I think it's that complexity

1000
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: and you wance. So for me, if I say it's

1001
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: a non negotiable, again, it may for someone else they

1002
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: may like the term, but for me it's not so

1003
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: program me with this harsh task master, I must always

1004
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: do this. I can never I can never fall from this.

1005
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: So for me, I personally don't use that term, but

1006
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: I totally welcome other people like if they want to

1007
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: use that term. I think it's completely fine, and I

1008
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: think it's all highly highly individual. We have to find

1009
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 1: what works for us. I don't believe anymore that anything

1010
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: for me is non negotiable. I think I set an

1011
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: intention about how I want to live, but always knowing

1012
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: that the situation could change. Now, Jay, I'm here in

1013
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: La right maybe two weeks after the election, and it's

1014
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: remarkable for me to see, certainly online the division right.

1015
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,479
Speaker 1: And I remember maybe six or nine months ago, when

1016
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: your current US Surgeon General, Vivic Mersey, was in London.

1017
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: He came on my podcast. We had a wonderful conversation,

1018
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: and he said to me, back then, one in six

1019
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: Americans are currently not talking to a family member because

1020
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: of their political views. And I suspect that's even higher

1021
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: now from what I can tell now, I'm not trying

1022
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: to wade into politics here. I'm trying to take a

1023
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: step back and go to me. And I'm not American, right,

1024
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: so I acknowledge that to put that out there, to me,

1025
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,919
Speaker 1: it seems like madness. There's a chapter in this book

1026
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: called take Less Offense, which is an over reliance on

1027
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,720
Speaker 1: being right, our need to be right. And I explained

1028
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: in that chap so that nothing in life is inherently offensive.

1029
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: If it was, we'd all get offended to the same thing.

1030
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: If it was that thing that was offensive, all of

1031
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,439
Speaker 1: us would find it offensive. If we don't all find

1032
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: something offensive, it means that thing isn't offensive. There's something

1033
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: inside of us that's been activated or being triggered. So

1034
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 1: that whole chapter is about helping people understand that you

1035
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: don't need to take offense to everything. You can choose

1036
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: not to. You can choose to go wow, Why has

1037
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: that person got a different view to me? Why does

1038
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: that person see the wills so differently from me? You know,

1039
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: I think I might have shared this last time I

1040
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: was on your show, Jay, but that one of the

1041
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: phrases that has been transformative for me is if I

1042
00:56:56,120 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: was that other person, I'd be behaving in exacta the

1043
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 1: same way as them. And what I mean by that

1044
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: is if I was that other person, with their parents,

1045
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: with their childhood, with the bullying they experienced, with the

1046
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: friends they had at school, with the first boss who

1047
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 1: bullied them, on the workplace, whatever it might be, if

1048
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: I had their life, I would probably see the world

1049
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: in the same way as them, and I probably act

1050
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: in the same way as them. Now, this doesn't mean

1051
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: I'm saying this excuse is poor behavior. No, I'm not

1052
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: saying that. What I'm saying is, instead of jumping to

1053
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: judgment of other people, which I think is a toxic behavior,

1054
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: I think it's a behavior that won't help you make change.

1055
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: I used to be judgmental, and not anymore. You can

1056
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: change this. We said before, how our behaviors are driven

1057
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: by our beliefs. None of us came out of our

1058
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: mother's womb with these beliefs, right, we didn't. We developed

1059
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: them based upon what we experienced throughout our life. It's

1060
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 1: a much lighter way of interacting with the world when

1061
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: you go, wow, why do they think in the way

1062
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: that they do? Now, you don't have to choose that

1063
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: approach to life. But if you're someone who's walking around

1064
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: taking offense to everything, okay, and I say this, I

1065
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 1: promise you. I say this with compassion. Jay. If there's

1066
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: anyone listening who's thinks that they're a person who's constantly

1067
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: berating the drivers on the freeway, taking offense to everything

1068
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: they see on social media, my invitation to that individual is, Hey,

1069
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: that approach to life may not be serving you. You

1070
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: may have an over reliance on being right. And in

1071
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: that chapter I make the case that actually thinking that

1072
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: everyone in the world is going to see the world

1073
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 1: in the same way as us in a world of

1074
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 1: eight billion people is actually quite an arrogant way to think.

1075
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: And I'm not judging when I say that I used

1076
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: to think like this, Jay, Right, So I'm why I

1077
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: share that is because I want people to know. I

1078
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: know what that feels like, and I know you can

1079
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: change that. If you choose to not take offense and

1080
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 1: interact with compassion, why does that person think the way

1081
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: in which they do. You will naturally make better choices

1082
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: because you're not generating that emotional stress you go on

1083
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: Instagram or Twitter or x and find a comment really

1084
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: irritating or someone's viewpoint really offensive and starts to get

1085
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: involved with them. Of course you can do that. That

1086
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: might be why you struggle to reduce your alcohol intake

1087
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: or your sugar intake, because you're getting addicted to that noise,

1088
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: that emotional stress. And let's relate that back to what

1089
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: I said about Edith Eager before. This lady who survived

1090
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: Auschwitz and at ninety three is full of compassion and

1091
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: forgiveness and even said that she's forgiven Hitler right. Let

1092
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: that land for a minute. It doesn't mean that what

1093
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: Hitler did was right. She's not saying that. What she's

1094
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: saying is I'm no longer going to allow what he

1095
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: did to affect me and my life and how I interact.

1096
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: There's a big difference people get. There's a whole sectional

1097
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 1: forgiveness in the book. People really misunderstand forgiveness. They think

1098
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: it means that I'm saying that that was right and

1099
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: it was okay. It's not that at all. One of

1100
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: the daily practices I did after my conversation with Edith,

1101
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: which is still probably one of the most powerful episodes

1102
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: I've ever had in my podcast, is every evening, because,

1103
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: as I say, you often can't do it in the moment.

1104
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: Every evening. Once my kids were in bed, when they

1105
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: were a bit younger, I sit down and I'd ask myself, wrongan,

1106
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: where did you get emotionally triggered today? When did an

1107
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: email piss you off? Right? When did you react to

1108
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 1: someone whilst you were driving? And instead of putting the

1109
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 1: blame on the other person, on something outside of myself,

1110
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: I asked myself a question, what is it within me

1111
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: that's been activated by that external action? Why did that

1112
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: email bother me? Oh? It reminds me of something my

1113
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: parents said to me when I was a kid. Oh,

1114
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: it reminds me of the boss I had a few

1115
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: years ago. Oh, it's highlighted in an insecurity like criticism. Right,

1116
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: we both exist in the public domain. We have to

1117
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 1: you know, we get positive comments, we also get negative comments. Right,

1118
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: That is just part and parcel of life. Not everyone

1119
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: is going to like how I put across my messages.

1120
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: That's okay, they don't have to. Some people will say

1121
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm the greatest podcast host on the planet. Some people

1122
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: say I'm the worst, and I talk over my guests

1123
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: and whatever. Do you know what? They're both right for them? Right?

1124
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? It's really important. So

1125
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: what I've learned about criticism, because criticism generally doesn't bother

1126
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: me anymore, because I've learned to be emotionally detached. I've

1127
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 1: come to the realization, Shay, that criticism only bothers us

1128
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: to the degree we believe it about ourselves. I don't

1129
01:01:55,600 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: know your relationship with criticism, but certainly for me, I realized, Oh,

1130
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 1: the reason that bothers me is because it triggers an

1131
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: internal insecurity. Now I can get annoyed at the person

1132
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: delivering the criticism or and maybe it's out of order,

1133
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: maybe they shouldn't. But I'm not sure how much that

1134
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: helps you. You can't control whether someone is or is

1135
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: not going to criticize you. What I can control and

1136
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: what I can work on is my internal state? Oh

1137
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: I'm insecure about that. Let me write down why? Let

1138
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 1: me think about that. Maybe if you have access to

1139
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: a therapist, sure, go and see one. Talk about it.

1140
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: That is the secret to long term change, Jay. It's

1141
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: not looking outside for the answers. It's going what is

1142
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: going on inside of me? That exercise Like, if people

1143
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: take nothing else from this conversation, Jay, I would say

1144
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: that is one of the most powerful things you can do.

1145
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: It will take you maybe five minutes every evening. And

1146
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 1: you don't realize. People do not realize how quickly their

1147
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: lives will start to change when they take full responsibility

1148
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 1: for their reactions. You're no get dependent on everyone around

1149
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 1: you acting a certain way to feel good. You become

1150
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: like a master in yourself. Like in martial arts, we

1151
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: want to be black belts. This is your way of

1152
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: becoming a black belt in yourself and I love it.

1153
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: And going back to what I said before about the

1154
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: process of change, if you commit to doing this, you

1155
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: will learn so much about yourself. You will learn why

1156
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: certain things trigger you, why you go to sugar, why

1157
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: you go to alcohol, why you can't stop scrolling Instagram

1158
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: for four hours every evening, you will learn about yourself.

1159
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 1: And I promise you that is much more powerful than

1160
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: any expert ever telling you that. And I say that

1161
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: as a so called expert myself.

1162
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 2: Make change that last Rangan. It's been really a jury

1163
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 2: talking to you today. I mean, the thing that's staying

1164
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 2: with me and resonating with me most deeply about what

1165
01:03:53,480 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: you shared is this idea of taking accountability, taking responsibility

1166
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 2: for ourselves, for our feelings, for our health. I think

1167
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 2: it's very easy to say I did this because this

1168
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 2: person told me. Oh, I feel this way because that

1169
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: person did that to me. Oh that person's diet didn't work.

1170
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 2: And you're so right. We've been trying to outsource our health,

1171
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 2: our emotional health, our physical health. And I love the

1172
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 2: ownership and the empowerment that you're offering everyone through this

1173
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 2: book because that's really what's missing. That's really what the

1174
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 2: struggle is, is that we haven't taken ownership of our

1175
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 2: own life. And that's what I feel you're encouraging us

1176
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 2: to do.

1177
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really am, because Jay, not only have I

1178
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: experienced it myself, because what I say at the of

1179
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: the end of the introduction is I say effortless change

1180
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 1: actually is available to you. Once you work on this stuff,

1181
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: change doesn't become as hard as you think. I think

1182
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 1: the reason we think it's so hard is because we're

1183
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 1: going about it in the wrong way. And I think,

1184
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: I mean, certainly we spoke up this beforehand. I think,

1185
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: I think what I've stumbled across through my career and

1186
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: through my own lived experience are I think some universal

1187
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: human truths, right. I think for me at least, what's

1188
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: exciting about this book for people is that you're going

1189
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,959
Speaker 1: to learn concepts that you're not used to learning about

1190
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 1: from a medical doctor. There's like elements of philosophy, spirituality, yes,

1191
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: physical health, and habit formation. It's all there. And I

1192
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: think from the bottom of my heart that this is

1193
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 1: the most important book I've ever written. I think it's

1194
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: going to have the most impact on people. You're very

1195
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 1: kind enough to give a quote for the book. But

1196
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 1: remember one of the first people outside my team to

1197
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 1: have read it was Dr Gable Matte and Gable read

1198
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 1: every single word and he sent me the most wonderful

1199
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 1: email and he goes wrong and this is just wonderful.

1200
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 1: This is your most insightful book. Get this can help

1201
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: so many people and coming from someone I really respect that.

1202
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 1: I love it.

1203
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing.

1204
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: I was so touched. I was so touched, And so

1205
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 1: I think this is the only journey that's worth taking,

1206
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 1: is understand your inner world. Stop relying on those external

1207
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 1: experts so much. I'm not saying ignore, I'm not saying

1208
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: ignore the science. I'm not saying ignore external experts. I

1209
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: think we've gone too far. It's all about what does

1210
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: the experts say now. I'm like, no, let's just bring

1211
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: it back. It's too head focused and not enough heart focus.

1212
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:34,919
Speaker 1: So let's just wind it back. Let's use our head,

1213
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: but let's also use our hearts. I love that.

1214
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 2: Ever on the book, it's called Make Change That last

1215
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 2: nine simple ways to break free from the habits that

1216
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 2: hold you back. Go and grab your copy right now

1217
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 2: and run. And thank you so much for always coming

1218
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 2: with so much energy, enthusiasm and counterintuitive thinking, which I

1219
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 2: think is going to benefit a lot of people and

1220
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 2: start their new year just right. So thank you so much,

1221
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 2: my friend. It's great to have you here.

1222
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 1: Jay, Thanks for having me back on your show. I

1223
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: appreciate that.

1224
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 2: Amazing. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview

1225
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 2: with doctor Daniel Ahman on how to change your life

1226
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 2: by changing your brain.

1227
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 3: If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with

1228
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 3: a healthy brain. You know, I've had the blessing or

1229
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 3: the curse to scan over a thousand convicted felons and

1230
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 3: over one hundred murderers, and their brains

1231
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 2: Are very damaged,